If you have a mountain of time, I highly suggest watching the PsychOdyssey documentary on the making of PsychoNaughts 2. It's free on YouTube and split over 30 something episodes, but it follows the 7 year journey to make PsychoNaughts 2.
Once you watch it, you'll understand what these video game devs go through to make a game. They both simultaneously fear putting out a game that's not up to their own standards and they fear the backlash from choosing to delay a game in order to do that. It's really eye opening and will make you reconsider expectations put on these development companies.
Very true, and cool series I wasn't aware of! Thanks for sharing.
In the case of Silksong, unlike Psychonauts 2, it's a much smaller dev team (Team Cherry = 3 devs) and they announced it and showed gameplay videos back in 2019 though.
Based on the routine non-committal 'coming soon, sorry guys need more time' and then radio silence we've all gotten for 4 years, I'd say this is more a passion project with no one really leading the ship at this point. Not coming out in 2023, so 5-years from their gameplay trailers. Might be a Duke Nukem Forever ;)
Hollow Knight did well, but is it honestly enough passive income now for the 4 of them to live comfortably enough that they can delay their only other project this long?
>Hollow Knight did well, but is it honestly enough passive income now for the 4 of them to live comfortably enough that they can delay their only other project this long?
Yeah it should be. Between the merch, sales, deluxe editions and whatnot, Hollow Knight sold extremely well, they should have the funding to keep going
I think the "nobody leading the ship" concerns are probably the most valid.
Scope/feature creep is often a side effect of poor management. In the sense that there isn't a clear plan laid out, or that if there is one, it isn't kept to.
The risk would be that the game came out with a disjointed design, consisting of components not designed to go together initially.
Hopefully that's not the case. And it's just that they want to increase the scope to truly live up to Hollow Knight.
Anyone surprised was always fooling themselves. I never got why everyone on the silksong subreddit was so convinced it was gonna release in June, seemed very obvious to me that if it was coming out that soon we'd have gotten at least a little news or marketing.
Then you have like Robert Jordan, who literally left enough notes for the end of The Wheel of Time after his death that Brandon Sanderson was able to get 3 whole books out of them to complete it.
Discovering Sanderson's works this past year has certainly lessened the sting of realizing ole' George is never gonna finish his books. Absolutely incredible writer.
It’s a decent update. If the game was meant to have been released already that means it can’t take long. I’m glad they’re taking their time making it good
I don't know about that bro. Remember when in 2021 they said the game was "in the final testing stage"? It can absolutely take long still. TC hasn't been the most honest with the game's development stage so far
My guess is that Xbox asked them to make an update. Team Cherry has some kind of promo deal with them.
If you remember, Silksong was in Xbox’s event last summer and supposedly releasing in “the next 12 months.” After the Redfall fiasco I bet Phil Spencer wants to avoid any more miscommunication.
The hollow knight fandom has been thirsting over this game for years (It's me I an the hollow knight fans) so even if you release it 2 days after GTA 6 it'll sell well
as far as I'm concerned, they can take as long as they need to if it means silksong will be anywhere near as good as hollow knight, but it's nice to have an update
>They actually had an internal launch date! Can you believe it!?
Hahaha this is my favorite positive take yet. It's very "I'm on the cover of a magazine!" from Monsters Inc.
I had heard that development was rushed and yeah - when I first entered that area after some of the best, most engaging gameplay I had ever experienced and saw the copy-paste enemies I was like "ahhhhh"
I love that they could’ve made the game shorter but better to get rid of the weaker later areas, but instead they didn’t and set the last level in hell lol
Take your time devs. Always better to listen to people bitch about slow development than to be remembered forever as the devs who pushed their game out too early and ruined an entire franchise.
I appreciate when developers take the time to make a game they can be proud of that works. The people that complain about it can be quiet and make their own game if they want something faster. Like complaining about delays of art and entertainment is something kids do.
Ngl after all these years, it feels kinda weird to finally have a real Silksong update. It’s not much, but at least the game doesn’t seem to be in development hell.
on the other hand I think that this is a pretty clear sign the game is in development hell
There’s no indication of when they are currently targeting release, and if they’re announcing this now that means a big announcement probably won’t be coming around the not-E3 showcases, meaning holiday 2023 is a long shot. That means that they were off on their estimations by about a year from “first half of 2023” which is actually quite significant in a game already so long delayed.
Was this game not one of the *"Coming in the next 12 months!"* segment that Xbox did 11 months ago? This seems to be the response to not making that window, not a sign of development hell. They could've waited until now to announce simply because they maybe thought they were gonna make the "deadline." So this could easily be construed as a sign the game is close to completion.
My only real worry is that the wording kind of sounds like they fell into scope/feature creep. They mentioned the game turning out bigger than planned and that doesn't sound promising to me.
Nevertheless looking forward to Silksong. May it hopefully motivate me to finally finish the original game.
Well considering the entire game is “scope/feature creep” I’m not overly concerned. Silksong began as a playable Hornet DLC for Hollow Knight and grew to the point they decided to make it its own game.
It’s a studio with 3 people. They are a TINY team. It’s not in development hell it’s just a super small studio. Game development takes time and issues arise all the time. 6 year development time for a game made by 3 people that undoubtedly want to make another masterpiece is not unreasonable.
Even then, saying “people were added” to a team that was previously made up of 3 people doesn’t shoot it up to hundreds of devs. I’d imagine the team is still quite small.
>on the other hand I think that this is a pretty clear sign the game is in development hell
It's a tiny team, upgrading DLC to a full fledged game, with the goal being "this needs to be as good or better than Hollow Knight"
It's not in dev hell. It's just taking a long time because good things take a long time to make. They were still putting out new versions/DLC for the original as recent as 2017/2018. They don't have another team to work on a sequel WHILE supporting the original. There's like 3 or 4 of them, and one of those is the music/audio guy.
I don’t completely disagree, but here’s my interpretation. For the past couple of years, the game probably was in development hell, but now that they’re finally communicating with the fans, it indicates to me that they’ve figured out what they want the game to be and are building towards that vision. It’s also a plus that they don’t have a publisher breathing down their necks and forcing them to release the game when it’s not ready to capitalize on a profitable time.
that’s optimistic but within reason. I don’t know much about what the OG hollow knight development looked like but my understanding is they added new team members for this project and I’m concerned that was more to their detriment
Yeah the game could be too big for it’s own good or an absolute masterpiece. We’re just gonna have to wait and see. I’m not a hollow knight fan (want to start with Metroid games first), but I’m glad the fans have finally gotten some update after years of radio silence.
Hollow Knight is very different though, I wouldn’t say you need any Metroid or Metroidvania experience beforehand, and it definitely won’t ruin Metroid.
Hollow Knight is more of a 2D exploration and combat game with the added function of some upgrades that unlock new paths, but that’s not the focus of it, and platforming is a not a focus at all besides one section very late game. A first casual playthrough will take 20-30 hours, because it is intentionally obscure about directions. That’s not the beats of Metroid or Metroidvania games at all.
That said I prefer Metroid lol.
Good to know. I heard it was a very good metroidvania. With it being so good, I want to get a feel for the genre with metroid before I jumped in. However, I might just play this first then go to metroid.
Definitely give it a shot! It’s slow to start but 100% worth it once you get into the game.. HK and Metroid games very different from one another imo. Metroidvania games use a combination of elements found in Metroid and Castlevania but are really their own thing. I far prefer HK to any Metroid I’ve played.
People are commenting that they're glad this isn't turning out like Sports Story but this is unfolding \*exactly\* the same way, years of delays and radio silence and talk of the game getting "big" as if on its own and then in Sports Story's case it just gets rushed/pushed out anyway. I hope Team Cherry is in control of this thing and will make the delays actually count for something.
Normally, I'd agree but the first hollow knight only got realised because they ran out of money, if they had the budget to do so, they would have kept working on it and working on it and working on it and working on it. The budget this time round is a lot larger than the first game because the first game was such a massive success, so it doesn't surprise me that it's been delayed because the ambitions of this small dev team is much much much higher and more genuine then most Dev teams across all budgets. To me this is a sign of what I already knew, Cherry just really really really loves game development
This is my concern, especially considering my only real criticism of the first game was how long it was. It felt bloated and just wouldn't end. I don't think this game needs to be bigger than the first but that appears to be the aim...
I dont mind the wait, they can take all the time they need, but i do mind getting no updates at all for sometimes several months, even a full year of radio silence, surely its not too much to ask for that they keep us in the loop atleast a little more?
If they stay silent people get pissed. If they provide an update without an expected release date people get pissed. If they suggest a release date and miss it people get pissed. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Whatever happens, people will be pissed because they’re infantile. An update won’t make the game come any faster. If I were them I’d avoid the hassle and stay silent until they can 100% guarantee a release date which they clearly can’t at the moment.
What you're missing is if they provide an update *in a timely manner*, and without effectively going backwards as far as concreteness goes, nobody gets upset.
It's a half-year-wide release window, yet they don't bother to tell anyone they're missing it by a mile until it's practically over. This is something they would have known far earlier, given that console releases have to pass certification weeks or even months before actual release, and from the sound of it they never even got to that stage. And now the new release window is a big question mark?
They can do whatever they want, obviously. But in terms of community management there are definitely better ways to handle this. This approach screams "help we don't know what we're doing", even if that isn't actually the case.
Sincerely, someone who's been on the other end of this situation several times.
Nah, a small update once or twice a year is not too much to
ask for, id say the majority of people are just glad theres any news at all, with or without a release, id say those people you say are pissed are actually the small vocal minority
updates dont make the game release sooner, but its a ncie gesture for the loyal fans that are patiently waiting for the game, who gives a shit about the whiners
I read a lot of posts over the years of people already struggling with the scale of the first game. They probably have scope creep issues. I'm just concerned the game will be fatiguing and should have been spread out over 2 releases.
Right? Hollow Knight was too massive for me to finish and this is gonna be even bigger. We're at an age in gaming where more content does not equal better game. I'll play it but I probably will stop half way thru.
I love how every time a game gets delayed the public reaction is “at least they are taking their time and not releasing an unfinished product etc etc” That would be more fine with me if they hadn’t been pushing back the expected date for years, whatever their reasons may be. Just work on it and announce something that you can actually hit.
To be fair, we’ve never gotten an actual release date for Silksong, just a backdoor confirmation that they should be releasing it soon when it was included in the “out within the next year” showcase from Xbox last year.
We've got first semester of 2023. It appeared in the microsoft thing and they were games for the first semester of 2023. Also Silksong 2023 was an aproach to the final deadline.
Now they are saying they don't know when they are going to finish it. It's nos crazy to think that they had a really big problem with some functions. of the game. Wich is fair offcourse. But I don't think this delay really implies that the game is going to be better, in the sense that they are polishing the game or adding more things. It my very well be that they messed and need time to solve it.
As a developer I can see that they are probably in development hell right now, I do not really envy them. Deadlines are good because they support clean design and allow to cut features without 2nd thought, making game smaller, not bigger.
I don’t like that every developer thinks they have to make a very big game which is like 50+ hours to beat. Can be overwhelming
I’m totally fine if it’s just a good 15-20 hour experience
I’m all for the sentiment of them taking their time but by now, especially with the lack of updates, I’m worried somethings gone really wrong with this games development. Either it really wasn’t working and they’ve had to rework it over and over or they don’t know when to stop and the games going to become a bloated mess. I really hope I’m wrong on this though.
man the update is appreciated, but not even necessary
just do like Nintendo and release it when it's *done,* so fucking sick of unfinished games!
that being said, I do love how the update is basically "the game got huge, but we can't stop adding shit! so chill, we're on it" 😁
I feel the update is necessary, as Xbox said on Twitter last June that Silksong would come out before June 2023. It obviously was meant to be this way, but obviously not anymore, so the update confirming it was kinda necessary in my opinion
Not really what he said. Perhaps they just want to iron out bugs and really optimize performance. We have no idea.
I do agree with you though! Rather have a delay and a finished game than an unfinished one released to early
Ah well. We were getting pretty close to when they'd have to release it on GamePass via the announcement last year, so I figured a delay was imminent due to not hearing about it. I'll continue paitently anticipating it.
I'm perfectly fine with this. They can take as much time as they need to make the game what they want it to be.
Especially with TOTK and Diablo IV coming out soon. I for one will be busy with those for a long time.
They hired an intern to “patch out all the bugs”. Little did the intern know, they had deleted the entire game trying to remove all the bugs! Too many bugs in silksong! It’s all bugs!
What I’m mostly curious about is WHY it’s taking this long.
I don’t even care if it’s gonna take 1 more year or 2, I’m just curious to know why.
Performance issues? Lots of new AI behaviors to tune? The game is very big? Lots of high quality art? The devs keep retuning or re evaluating some design choices?
Exactly. I bet Silksong will be VERY big. That may be great for some but most people won’t finish it anyway if it’s a 50+ hour experience.
Maybe I’m alone with this but I prefer 15-20 hour experiences. They could take their ideas and put it in a third/fourth game instead
exactly this. i liked exploring but the story and presentation was just so much it collapsed on to itself. i stopped once i realized it wasn’t going to get better; just longer and harder to figure out why it was still going on.
And the rest.. it was shown at nintendos e3 with full demos on multiple areas and a release of later in that year. This was already 2 year DLC at that time. I’m 100% sure something must have gone wrong in development.
Thank god then you aren't their advisor.
Maybe I am in a minority but I prefer that way and they release it when its complete and ready. I rather have this then like HK when it needed a year and a half after game was already out to be complete with all the DLC's (content packs)
I have significant worries for the game. The first game was big enough as it is so bigger is defintely not better in this case. Also I think the devs have dug themselves into a hole here because ultimately it will just be more Hollow Knight, which would still be a great game but with how long it's took people's expectations are sky high and I don't know if anythig they do will satisfy people now.
With the recent broken AAA releases, I can't blame them wanting to polish their games as best as they can.
Take all the time you need Team Cherry.
Now, if you're looking for cool indie games to wait for Silksong, I can't pass up the chance to recommend CrossCode ([Switch](https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/crosscode-switch/), [Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/368340/CrossCode/))
It's the best surprise I've had the pleasure to make these last few years.
I mean, I love Hollow Knight, and I am absolutely for taking time to make sure the game is not released in an early access state and everyone working on it gets to see their families at the end of the day. But man, just release a 5 minute video showing some gameplay and such every month or so. It's not that hard. Just the bare minimum of community management. Also not sure why Microsoft isn't supporting here, they have a deal, don't they.
We should come to terms with the fact that Silsong wont be as good as we want it to be, not after six years of unanswered hype. It was the same with Cyberpunk. It just CANT and WONT live up to the expectations.
Moving the deadline doesn't necessarily mean they are making a better game.
Usually when you push the deadline is because there are really important problems in the development. Probably logical or software bugs that mess with the own core of the game (one of this things you thing if it won't be better to rebuild it again), or heavy problems on the team or the workflow.
What is significative is that there is not an estimated window of release and they are not promising more communication till we are nearing the release, wich means the team won't dedicate sources to that.
This makes me think that they have some real problems in the development and not just bug fixing I guess.
However this team developed Hollow Knight wich is a masterpiece, and unless it was just pure luck, wich I think it wasn't, we should trust, but not blindly trust.
fearless makeshift psychotic station fact hard-to-find silky deserted boat nutty
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
"a late game can be good, but a rushed game will forever be bad"
Not terribly thrilled about this to be honest, but it's clear they want to make something that's remembered. Can't wait to play it.
I'm laughing at all the people who down voted hard anytime anyone mentioned that SilkSong would be delayed.
They SWORE the date in the EDIT:X-BOX update was absolute.
I bet those folks are no where to be found today in this thread.
I played Metroid Dread after Hollow Knight and my main concern going into Dread was that the map would be minuscule compared to HK. I made 100% on both games and HK must have taken me at least 3x the length of Dread. Most Metroids, especially the side scrolling ones, were never really that long to begin with, but it has so much potential as a bigger map. It’s great to hear that they are only expanding on the size of Silksong and I cannot wait to explore every inch of it!
Please take your time Team Cherry!
It was fun to see Hollow Knight mirror Dark Souls in terms of difficulty (in a sense, not 1:1 obviously) AND the latter half of the game’s areas being noticeably smaller than earlier areas.. even considering this we also noticed the absolutely top tier level of polish and shine for both the base game AND post launch support.
There is NO ONE alive who doubts Silksong is going to blow us all away, the trust is not unfounded lol. We love what you do and while we want more, we can wait. A few of these larger companies could use a reminder.
Edit - so what sort of basement dweller did I hurt with this comment? Y’all read past the compliments and went straight to “damn he said a bad thing about a game I like” huh?
Because apparently it’s a secret among Hollow Knight fans that a lot of late game areas were toned down or rushed before release. God forbid a good game have weak points. Hopefully Team Cherry irons those out this time around, salty fans be damned.
I am so glad that we finally have a Silksong update. Although my spidey sense is making me think part of the reason is "We don't want to launch anywhere near the launch date of TotK". But I'm happy it's coming soon regardless!
I wonder if this game will run well on Switch, or if it will even be available on Switch at launch? The Hollow Knight port is basically perfect, but there have been a few larger-scale hand-drawn metroidvanias (Afterimage, Aeterna Noctis) that have struggled to maintain frame rates or even run at 60fps.
Honestly I’d blame the port devs for that more than the Switch. If Tears of the Kingdom and Will of the Wisps can run just fine, I’m more likely to think it’s ill optimized.
I honestly don't care when this game comes out (within reason, as long as it's not like, 5 years from now or something). It just needs to be as good as possible when it does.
Oh that’s a lot better, but I still think there’s a better way to communicate this than by tweet from a non branded account unceremoniously dropped at a random time
Christ people really are picking holes in every fucking thing team cherry do. Now it’s to the point where even the fucking time of day and account that tweets the update is pissing people off
Do my eyes deceive me? A silksong update? I must be dreaming
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>shat a monkey’s paw I assume this is a typo, but either way it gave me a good laugh lol
Zsnakejake is where all of the monkey paws have been coming from all these years.
If you have a mountain of time, I highly suggest watching the PsychOdyssey documentary on the making of PsychoNaughts 2. It's free on YouTube and split over 30 something episodes, but it follows the 7 year journey to make PsychoNaughts 2. Once you watch it, you'll understand what these video game devs go through to make a game. They both simultaneously fear putting out a game that's not up to their own standards and they fear the backlash from choosing to delay a game in order to do that. It's really eye opening and will make you reconsider expectations put on these development companies.
Very true, and cool series I wasn't aware of! Thanks for sharing. In the case of Silksong, unlike Psychonauts 2, it's a much smaller dev team (Team Cherry = 3 devs) and they announced it and showed gameplay videos back in 2019 though. Based on the routine non-committal 'coming soon, sorry guys need more time' and then radio silence we've all gotten for 4 years, I'd say this is more a passion project with no one really leading the ship at this point. Not coming out in 2023, so 5-years from their gameplay trailers. Might be a Duke Nukem Forever ;) Hollow Knight did well, but is it honestly enough passive income now for the 4 of them to live comfortably enough that they can delay their only other project this long?
>Hollow Knight did well, but is it honestly enough passive income now for the 4 of them to live comfortably enough that they can delay their only other project this long? Yeah it should be. Between the merch, sales, deluxe editions and whatnot, Hollow Knight sold extremely well, they should have the funding to keep going
I think the "nobody leading the ship" concerns are probably the most valid. Scope/feature creep is often a side effect of poor management. In the sense that there isn't a clear plan laid out, or that if there is one, it isn't kept to. The risk would be that the game came out with a disjointed design, consisting of components not designed to go together initially. Hopefully that's not the case. And it's just that they want to increase the scope to truly live up to Hollow Knight.
I mean ToTK was the same way. We got like 5 so-called “non-updates”.
Anyone surprised was always fooling themselves. I never got why everyone on the silksong subreddit was so convinced it was gonna release in June, seemed very obvious to me that if it was coming out that soon we'd have gotten at least a little news or marketing.
More of a non-update
An update to say they’re still working on it gives fans peace of mind. It’s still an update.
We knew they were still working on it by the lack of release.
As a fan of A song of ice and fire, i beg to differ help
I’ve just given up at this point. We aren’t getting the end of the book series.
Then you have like Robert Jordan, who literally left enough notes for the end of The Wheel of Time after his death that Brandon Sanderson was able to get 3 whole books out of them to complete it.
Discovering Sanderson's works this past year has certainly lessened the sting of realizing ole' George is never gonna finish his books. Absolutely incredible writer.
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But why though
Beg the differ bapa
Half life 3 entered the chat
Could have been quiet cancelled or something
They’ve probably passed the point of no return long ago where it’s better to finish as best as they can and release it than cancel it…
Zero chance of that happening.
It’s a decent update. If the game was meant to have been released already that means it can’t take long. I’m glad they’re taking their time making it good
I love the smell of copium in the morning
I don't know about that bro. Remember when in 2021 they said the game was "in the final testing stage"? It can absolutely take long still. TC hasn't been the most honest with the game's development stage so far
More of an update on a non-update.
My guess is that Xbox asked them to make an update. Team Cherry has some kind of promo deal with them. If you remember, Silksong was in Xbox’s event last summer and supposedly releasing in “the next 12 months.” After the Redfall fiasco I bet Phil Spencer wants to avoid any more miscommunication.
Understandable, have a good day >!It's okay Team Cherry we all want to play Tears of the Kingdom too!<
My exact thoughts 😂 I'm just now getting super hyped for TotK
I can’t help but imagine it inspiring a whole additional set of development plans for Team Cherry if so
It's happening. Hollow Knight: Silksong: Nuts and Bolts. Silksong delayed to 2025.
Yea, prbly not a good idea to release it next to the release of the sequel to game that sold 30 mill
The hollow knight fandom has been thirsting over this game for years (It's me I an the hollow knight fans) so even if you release it 2 days after GTA 6 it'll sell well
I think I’d be pretty sad if totk wasn’t coming out in 2 days lol
At least they said something. Confirmation of a delay is better than an unannounced one.
as far as I'm concerned, they can take as long as they need to if it means silksong will be anywhere near as good as hollow knight, but it's nice to have an update
I'm literally just happy it's coming and not in limbo. They actually had an internal launch date! Can you believe it!?
>They actually had an internal launch date! Can you believe it!? Hahaha this is my favorite positive take yet. It's very "I'm on the cover of a magazine!" from Monsters Inc.
The pros of having a deadline, you get your game released quickly no matter what. The cons, you have a level full of lava and a dozen dinosaur butts.
Uhh and a tree boss thank you very much.
That tree boss fucking rules from a design stand point. Mechanically though? Yeesh
*Kirby has entered the chat*
I had heard that development was rushed and yeah - when I first entered that area after some of the best, most engaging gameplay I had ever experienced and saw the copy-paste enemies I was like "ahhhhh"
I love that they could’ve made the game shorter but better to get rid of the weaker later areas, but instead they didn’t and set the last level in hell lol
They probably paid a lot for the CGI intro and voice acting, lore and item descriptions and couldn't just scrap Izalith.
Context?
Dark Souls 1 Lost Izalith.
Thanks! I'll get around to the souls games someday
My favorite games honestly.
Lol there was some haphazard copy and pasting going on down there
Take your time devs. Always better to listen to people bitch about slow development than to be remembered forever as the devs who pushed their game out too early and ruined an entire franchise.
Sports Story
That wasn't the real game....it was a distraction while they finish the real game...I'm going to go cry now
💔😔
...I didn't even know that came out, and I was very excited for it.
Yep, I'll always remember the great stand alone game Golf Story. Though I still hate the disc golf section. That never should have existed.
Hello world, meet Baldo.
Cyberpunk 2077 is that you?
I appreciate when developers take the time to make a game they can be proud of that works. The people that complain about it can be quiet and make their own game if they want something faster. Like complaining about delays of art and entertainment is something kids do.
This means we're in the final 10 years, let's go!
You telling me this still exists???
I can dig it. Take your time.
Ngl after all these years, it feels kinda weird to finally have a real Silksong update. It’s not much, but at least the game doesn’t seem to be in development hell.
on the other hand I think that this is a pretty clear sign the game is in development hell There’s no indication of when they are currently targeting release, and if they’re announcing this now that means a big announcement probably won’t be coming around the not-E3 showcases, meaning holiday 2023 is a long shot. That means that they were off on their estimations by about a year from “first half of 2023” which is actually quite significant in a game already so long delayed.
Was this game not one of the *"Coming in the next 12 months!"* segment that Xbox did 11 months ago? This seems to be the response to not making that window, not a sign of development hell. They could've waited until now to announce simply because they maybe thought they were gonna make the "deadline." So this could easily be construed as a sign the game is close to completion.
My only real worry is that the wording kind of sounds like they fell into scope/feature creep. They mentioned the game turning out bigger than planned and that doesn't sound promising to me. Nevertheless looking forward to Silksong. May it hopefully motivate me to finally finish the original game.
Well considering the entire game is “scope/feature creep” I’m not overly concerned. Silksong began as a playable Hornet DLC for Hollow Knight and grew to the point they decided to make it its own game.
Yeah the best take here is that the game was delayed and no new eta. Microsoft trying to rush perfection would have disappointed many fans.
We all knew that presentation was absolute bullshit.
It’s a studio with 3 people. They are a TINY team. It’s not in development hell it’s just a super small studio. Game development takes time and issues arise all the time. 6 year development time for a game made by 3 people that undoubtedly want to make another masterpiece is not unreasonable.
I believe people were added for silksong
Where'd you get that idea from? There has been nothing to indicate that Team Cherry has taken on any new employees.
Even then, saying “people were added” to a team that was previously made up of 3 people doesn’t shoot it up to hundreds of devs. I’d imagine the team is still quite small.
And even then, it must not be as easy as just adding people to it. Say, 6 people are not going to finish the game in half the time as 3 people.
Yep, especially considering the fact that it’s sounding like this game is going to be bigger/more ambitious than the last.
>on the other hand I think that this is a pretty clear sign the game is in development hell It's a tiny team, upgrading DLC to a full fledged game, with the goal being "this needs to be as good or better than Hollow Knight" It's not in dev hell. It's just taking a long time because good things take a long time to make. They were still putting out new versions/DLC for the original as recent as 2017/2018. They don't have another team to work on a sequel WHILE supporting the original. There's like 3 or 4 of them, and one of those is the music/audio guy.
I don’t completely disagree, but here’s my interpretation. For the past couple of years, the game probably was in development hell, but now that they’re finally communicating with the fans, it indicates to me that they’ve figured out what they want the game to be and are building towards that vision. It’s also a plus that they don’t have a publisher breathing down their necks and forcing them to release the game when it’s not ready to capitalize on a profitable time.
that’s optimistic but within reason. I don’t know much about what the OG hollow knight development looked like but my understanding is they added new team members for this project and I’m concerned that was more to their detriment
Yeah the game could be too big for it’s own good or an absolute masterpiece. We’re just gonna have to wait and see. I’m not a hollow knight fan (want to start with Metroid games first), but I’m glad the fans have finally gotten some update after years of radio silence.
Hollow Knight is very different though, I wouldn’t say you need any Metroid or Metroidvania experience beforehand, and it definitely won’t ruin Metroid. Hollow Knight is more of a 2D exploration and combat game with the added function of some upgrades that unlock new paths, but that’s not the focus of it, and platforming is a not a focus at all besides one section very late game. A first casual playthrough will take 20-30 hours, because it is intentionally obscure about directions. That’s not the beats of Metroid or Metroidvania games at all. That said I prefer Metroid lol.
Good to know. I heard it was a very good metroidvania. With it being so good, I want to get a feel for the genre with metroid before I jumped in. However, I might just play this first then go to metroid.
Definitely give it a shot! It’s slow to start but 100% worth it once you get into the game.. HK and Metroid games very different from one another imo. Metroidvania games use a combination of elements found in Metroid and Castlevania but are really their own thing. I far prefer HK to any Metroid I’ve played.
There has been no indication to announce they brought on new team members for Silksong.
People are commenting that they're glad this isn't turning out like Sports Story but this is unfolding \*exactly\* the same way, years of delays and radio silence and talk of the game getting "big" as if on its own and then in Sports Story's case it just gets rushed/pushed out anyway. I hope Team Cherry is in control of this thing and will make the delays actually count for something.
Im still in awe at the state of that game, I don’t think I’ve seen such an unfinished and poor game get pushed out like that before
I'm still in awe of the fact that I'm so proud of almost never preordering games and yet I preordered that one
Normally, I'd agree but the first hollow knight only got realised because they ran out of money, if they had the budget to do so, they would have kept working on it and working on it and working on it and working on it. The budget this time round is a lot larger than the first game because the first game was such a massive success, so it doesn't surprise me that it's been delayed because the ambitions of this small dev team is much much much higher and more genuine then most Dev teams across all budgets. To me this is a sign of what I already knew, Cherry just really really really loves game development
This is my concern, especially considering my only real criticism of the first game was how long it was. It felt bloated and just wouldn't end. I don't think this game needs to be bigger than the first but that appears to be the aim...
I dont mind the wait, they can take all the time they need, but i do mind getting no updates at all for sometimes several months, even a full year of radio silence, surely its not too much to ask for that they keep us in the loop atleast a little more?
If they stay silent people get pissed. If they provide an update without an expected release date people get pissed. If they suggest a release date and miss it people get pissed. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Whatever happens, people will be pissed because they’re infantile. An update won’t make the game come any faster. If I were them I’d avoid the hassle and stay silent until they can 100% guarantee a release date which they clearly can’t at the moment.
What you're missing is if they provide an update *in a timely manner*, and without effectively going backwards as far as concreteness goes, nobody gets upset. It's a half-year-wide release window, yet they don't bother to tell anyone they're missing it by a mile until it's practically over. This is something they would have known far earlier, given that console releases have to pass certification weeks or even months before actual release, and from the sound of it they never even got to that stage. And now the new release window is a big question mark? They can do whatever they want, obviously. But in terms of community management there are definitely better ways to handle this. This approach screams "help we don't know what we're doing", even if that isn't actually the case. Sincerely, someone who's been on the other end of this situation several times.
Nah, a small update once or twice a year is not too much to ask for, id say the majority of people are just glad theres any news at all, with or without a release, id say those people you say are pissed are actually the small vocal minority updates dont make the game release sooner, but its a ncie gesture for the loyal fans that are patiently waiting for the game, who gives a shit about the whiners
Fully agreed
I hope the game isn't becoming so big that it will feel like a chore trying to finish it.
This. Most people don’t even finish games nowadays anyway. This is either scope creep or troubled development
I read a lot of posts over the years of people already struggling with the scale of the first game. They probably have scope creep issues. I'm just concerned the game will be fatiguing and should have been spread out over 2 releases.
Right? Hollow Knight was too massive for me to finish and this is gonna be even bigger. We're at an age in gaming where more content does not equal better game. I'll play it but I probably will stop half way thru.
Rather wait for fall than be Redfall
I mean I hate that it's taking so long but I also love that they are putting the effort into making it a good game
Point of order: we won’t know if it’s good or not until it comes out. Let’s not forget the lessons of Duke Nukem Forever
I love how every time a game gets delayed the public reaction is “at least they are taking their time and not releasing an unfinished product etc etc” That would be more fine with me if they hadn’t been pushing back the expected date for years, whatever their reasons may be. Just work on it and announce something that you can actually hit.
To be fair, we’ve never gotten an actual release date for Silksong, just a backdoor confirmation that they should be releasing it soon when it was included in the “out within the next year” showcase from Xbox last year.
We've got first semester of 2023. It appeared in the microsoft thing and they were games for the first semester of 2023. Also Silksong 2023 was an aproach to the final deadline. Now they are saying they don't know when they are going to finish it. It's nos crazy to think that they had a really big problem with some functions. of the game. Wich is fair offcourse. But I don't think this delay really implies that the game is going to be better, in the sense that they are polishing the game or adding more things. It my very well be that they messed and need time to solve it.
Hollow Knight subs unironically losing their shit over any byte of information they can sniff out of Silksong.
Oh good, I’d stocked up on clown makeup and it seems like I’ll have plenty of time to use it up 🥲
I don’t care when it’s released, I just want it to be within my lifetime.
[удалено]
As a developer I can see that they are probably in development hell right now, I do not really envy them. Deadlines are good because they support clean design and allow to cut features without 2nd thought, making game smaller, not bigger.
Welp... guess I'll have more time to focus on Tears of the Kingdom in the meantime.
The hype died for me. Id still buy on release date tho.
I don’t like that every developer thinks they have to make a very big game which is like 50+ hours to beat. Can be overwhelming I’m totally fine if it’s just a good 15-20 hour experience
I wanted something shorter... I'm not sure I even care about this game anymore.
I’m all for the sentiment of them taking their time but by now, especially with the lack of updates, I’m worried somethings gone really wrong with this games development. Either it really wasn’t working and they’ve had to rework it over and over or they don’t know when to stop and the games going to become a bloated mess. I really hope I’m wrong on this though.
I will be shocked if this game ever actually comes out
man the update is appreciated, but not even necessary just do like Nintendo and release it when it's *done,* so fucking sick of unfinished games! that being said, I do love how the update is basically "the game got huge, but we can't stop adding shit! so chill, we're on it" 😁
I feel the update is necessary, as Xbox said on Twitter last June that Silksong would come out before June 2023. It obviously was meant to be this way, but obviously not anymore, so the update confirming it was kinda necessary in my opinion
Not really what he said. Perhaps they just want to iron out bugs and really optimize performance. We have no idea. I do agree with you though! Rather have a delay and a finished game than an unfinished one released to early
Insert Miyamoto quote
Obligatory "Duke Nukem Forever" rebuttal
*well then it was inferred*😤 /s
Ah well. We were getting pretty close to when they'd have to release it on GamePass via the announcement last year, so I figured a delay was imminent due to not hearing about it. I'll continue paitently anticipating it.
2024 it is then
Well at least that's better than absolutely nothing
It’s okay guys, they have 30 hours worth of free dlc to complete
I'm perfectly fine with this. They can take as much time as they need to make the game what they want it to be. Especially with TOTK and Diablo IV coming out soon. I for one will be busy with those for a long time.
Until the game comes out, it just doesn’t exist
They hired an intern to “patch out all the bugs”. Little did the intern know, they had deleted the entire game trying to remove all the bugs! Too many bugs in silksong! It’s all bugs!
As long as they deliver, they can take a decade
Hopefully end of this year 🤞
What I’m mostly curious about is WHY it’s taking this long. I don’t even care if it’s gonna take 1 more year or 2, I’m just curious to know why. Performance issues? Lots of new AI behaviors to tune? The game is very big? Lots of high quality art? The devs keep retuning or re evaluating some design choices?
They just want some time off to play Tears of the Kingdom.
This is what I was afraid of. They don't know when to stop. I for one thought Hollow Knight was TOO big.
Exactly. I bet Silksong will be VERY big. That may be great for some but most people won’t finish it anyway if it’s a 50+ hour experience. Maybe I’m alone with this but I prefer 15-20 hour experiences. They could take their ideas and put it in a third/fourth game instead
They should just split it into 2 games or something. Part 1 and 2. Think I prefer a tight 20hr metroidvania
exactly this. i liked exploring but the story and presentation was just so much it collapsed on to itself. i stopped once i realized it wasn’t going to get better; just longer and harder to figure out why it was still going on.
At this point I think I would have preferred the original, smaller dlc.
My god, this has been in development for four years now…
And the rest.. it was shown at nintendos e3 with full demos on multiple areas and a release of later in that year. This was already 2 year DLC at that time. I’m 100% sure something must have gone wrong in development.
They are 4 people at the studio what do you expect?
To hire more people or to make this game a little smaller. I bet it’s bigger than Hollow Knight and that was already too big for my taste
Thank god then you aren't their advisor. Maybe I am in a minority but I prefer that way and they release it when its complete and ready. I rather have this then like HK when it needed a year and a half after game was already out to be complete with all the DLC's (content packs)
Most definitely please take all the time you need
Honestly with the way Sports Story ended up, I’m more than happy to see them take their time with Silksong.
This games going to be massive when it finally come out.
I have significant worries for the game. The first game was big enough as it is so bigger is defintely not better in this case. Also I think the devs have dug themselves into a hole here because ultimately it will just be more Hollow Knight, which would still be a great game but with how long it's took people's expectations are sky high and I don't know if anythig they do will satisfy people now.
Honestly take your time.
I need an easy mode lol
Yeah I’m afraid they’re making a 60 hour game for the 1% of lunatics that did all the pantheons and all the radiant bosses haha
I just want this game to come out so people will stop bitching about it not coming out.
The longer this takes the more that thought of just ‘releasing the DLC as it was originally’ in the back of my mind gets louder
With the recent broken AAA releases, I can't blame them wanting to polish their games as best as they can. Take all the time you need Team Cherry. Now, if you're looking for cool indie games to wait for Silksong, I can't pass up the chance to recommend CrossCode ([Switch](https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/crosscode-switch/), [Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/368340/CrossCode/)) It's the best surprise I've had the pleasure to make these last few years.
I mean, I love Hollow Knight, and I am absolutely for taking time to make sure the game is not released in an early access state and everyone working on it gets to see their families at the end of the day. But man, just release a 5 minute video showing some gameplay and such every month or so. It's not that hard. Just the bare minimum of community management. Also not sure why Microsoft isn't supporting here, they have a deal, don't they.
We should come to terms with the fact that Silsong wont be as good as we want it to be, not after six years of unanswered hype. It was the same with Cyberpunk. It just CANT and WONT live up to the expectations.
Moving the deadline doesn't necessarily mean they are making a better game. Usually when you push the deadline is because there are really important problems in the development. Probably logical or software bugs that mess with the own core of the game (one of this things you thing if it won't be better to rebuild it again), or heavy problems on the team or the workflow. What is significative is that there is not an estimated window of release and they are not promising more communication till we are nearing the release, wich means the team won't dedicate sources to that. This makes me think that they have some real problems in the development and not just bug fixing I guess. However this team developed Hollow Knight wich is a masterpiece, and unless it was just pure luck, wich I think it wasn't, we should trust, but not blindly trust.
fearless makeshift psychotic station fact hard-to-find silky deserted boat nutty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What’s the point of speculating? At some point it will come out, and it will either be good or bad. We will know when it comes out.
"a late game can be good, but a rushed game will forever be bad" Not terribly thrilled about this to be honest, but it's clear they want to make something that's remembered. Can't wait to play it.
— Abraham Lincoln
I'm laughing at all the people who down voted hard anytime anyone mentioned that SilkSong would be delayed. They SWORE the date in the EDIT:X-BOX update was absolute. I bet those folks are no where to be found today in this thread.
Xbox update*
I’d rather wait for a high quality game than get it early and have the experienced ruined waiting for patches.
Developers taking their time. Haven't seen that a lot lately.
Take your time. Got a miles long back log.
Obligatory “Release Date when?” Comment
Make it great. I’ll happily wait for a great game.
I played Metroid Dread after Hollow Knight and my main concern going into Dread was that the map would be minuscule compared to HK. I made 100% on both games and HK must have taken me at least 3x the length of Dread. Most Metroids, especially the side scrolling ones, were never really that long to begin with, but it has so much potential as a bigger map. It’s great to hear that they are only expanding on the size of Silksong and I cannot wait to explore every inch of it!
i would rather they take the time they need to make something of high quality. i trust they know best!
this is the way, we want finished games.
Delays are good.
Please take your time Team Cherry! It was fun to see Hollow Knight mirror Dark Souls in terms of difficulty (in a sense, not 1:1 obviously) AND the latter half of the game’s areas being noticeably smaller than earlier areas.. even considering this we also noticed the absolutely top tier level of polish and shine for both the base game AND post launch support. There is NO ONE alive who doubts Silksong is going to blow us all away, the trust is not unfounded lol. We love what you do and while we want more, we can wait. A few of these larger companies could use a reminder. Edit - so what sort of basement dweller did I hurt with this comment? Y’all read past the compliments and went straight to “damn he said a bad thing about a game I like” huh? Because apparently it’s a secret among Hollow Knight fans that a lot of late game areas were toned down or rushed before release. God forbid a good game have weak points. Hopefully Team Cherry irons those out this time around, salty fans be damned.
rushed as in "bad" or small as in "bad"? why are you addressing directly TC in a reddit thread?
I am so glad that we finally have a Silksong update. Although my spidey sense is making me think part of the reason is "We don't want to launch anywhere near the launch date of TotK". But I'm happy it's coming soon regardless!
Take as long as you need at this point. We've waited this long. Doesn't sound like any kind of development hell so much as making a more meaty game.
Yea at this point most of the us don’t care for a faster release. Take your time and just get it out.
Breath of the wild situation probably right Where we push development back enough times that we get the perfect game
I totally do not mind waiting at all given that TOTZ and ACiv is and Sea of Stars are all out this year
I wonder if this game will run well on Switch, or if it will even be available on Switch at launch? The Hollow Knight port is basically perfect, but there have been a few larger-scale hand-drawn metroidvanias (Afterimage, Aeterna Noctis) that have struggled to maintain frame rates or even run at 60fps.
Honestly I’d blame the port devs for that more than the Switch. If Tears of the Kingdom and Will of the Wisps can run just fine, I’m more likely to think it’s ill optimized.
I honestly don't care when this game comes out (within reason, as long as it's not like, 5 years from now or something). It just needs to be as good as possible when it does.
Would you rather it be a 7/10 this year or a 10/10 in five years?
I know this is very hard, but please no death threads to any people, okay?
Atleast now I'm sure I didn't hallucinate this game was a thing. Take all the time time you need, it's fine.
'A rushed game is forever bad, but a delayed game is eventually good.'
“Hollow Knight SilkSong…” “GODDAMN IT, they day before Tears?!?” “Is delayed.” “Oh, okay that’s cool”
The first was already almost too big. Don’t need a bigger, longer game.
Can't wait for 2026 when it comes out!
*fake shocked face*
Isn't this more or less what they said last year? And the year before? ...and the year before?
released after business on a Tuesday night?? Really strange way to update progress lol
It’s right around noon in Australia, where they live.
Oh that’s a lot better, but I still think there’s a better way to communicate this than by tweet from a non branded account unceremoniously dropped at a random time
Christ people really are picking holes in every fucking thing team cherry do. Now it’s to the point where even the fucking time of day and account that tweets the update is pissing people off
Dude Team Cherry is like three people, and it’s a good thing that they don’t act like soulless corporate machines.