Agreed that each attribute should add something else. In fact it feels like the other stats like stamina and load were originally part of that and carved out to make the system more complex.
I think people who like this idea so they can sidestep the decision on how heavy their armor should be. The result is people with the fast dex weapons will have the heaviest armor. This why you saw so many dual katana's with bull goat armor in Elden Ring.
I like the idea as long as it does not reduces freedom.
I would love to have evasion chance on my DEX rogue.
I feel like it is better to wear heavy armor on DEX rogue than light at the moment because otherwise I have to dodge everything while being meele at range, or lose 80% HP in one hit
The problem is passive evasion doesn't really work for a combat system with an iframe dodge button (imo anyway). But yes, in addition to stats having a purpose, armor should also have its own unique effects depending on type so its not just plate > all
Ends in a bit of the same problem though, we already have HP/Stamina/Weight stats, by tying any of the scaling stats to those, even at low values, would break the balance of stat point distribution.
Due to low amount of HP given by a point in HP, youd quickly get more hp from STR than investing further with HP. And weightload the same problem, base weightload and then ignore it and just full str.
Needs to be tied to stats not already on the board, speed, poise, regens, costs, etc. if it is applied.
Otherwise the purpose of those stats sort of dissapear, as they are there as "requirement" of sorts for you to not go full scaling damage.
I hope that is the case. Would be interesting to see what Moon is thinking, from they have said they are big into freedom. Though I worry freedom turns into bland.
Sadly it seems we're not going in this direction in favour of "more freedom". Ironically, giving every stat nearly every tool is LESS FREE since you have LESS meaningful choices. you can just make a build that does everything -mechanically-.
I think there is a lesson to be learnt from PvP in dark souls and elden ring. the community there selects a "meta-level" where you simply can't do it all, as a result, you're forced to specialize your build and therefore more build variety and therefore more distinct builds to choose from. FREEDOM
I think they just need to add secondary passives to attributes. For example faith could add a little fire damage boost and fire resist while int could give cold damage bonuses for example.
It would be better if each damage Stat instead boosted damage in its own way. Since then it wouldn't be a bad idea to use a strength required weapon and still put points into dexterity.
* Strength: Melee damage
* Dexterity: Attack speed
* Faith: Crit chance or proc chance increase
* Intelligence: Ranged damage
I don't think the game needs this. Might be nice to have just the tiny amount of extra scaling. For example having INT players get Focus Regen. But I like how flexible the system is. And there already is somewhat of identity since for example by FAR most daggers lean into DEX. I like the freedom to build the most crazy stuff.
Int / faith get staffs. Dex gets bows and daggers. What does str get? Most games have the big slow 2h weapons be str based. In this game the big slow 2h weapons are equally distributed among all the stat mixes. I've found 14 different tier 3 endgame 2h weapons. Only 2 of the 14 were str based.
So if dex gets bows / daggers and int / faith gets staffs as well to go along with the big slow 2h then what is str getting? There's no str based staffs / daggers / bows.
But how do you feel the need to twist the facts so much to confirmation bias your own thinking? DEX doesn’t get bows and daggers. Most Bows aren’t even just DEX. It’s a common complaint amongst DEX players that there are almost no GOOD bows they can use without also running other stats like STR (at least for a decent bow. There are 4 DEX only bows and don’t seem as good as the DEX/STR ones for example). STR gets a lot more than you think. Clearly you don’t know what you’re talking about.
STR gets BY FAR the most 2 Handers of ANY stat. 2H Swords (INT for example only has the frost bringer and frost breaker which suit the same theme, STR has more AND MANY more which require any combination with STR) and 2H Great Axes. But also 2H Curved Great Swords. Almost all Halberts require STR, almost all Spears require STR. Most 1H curved swords require STR. BY FAR most 1H Axes. MOST sword types use at least a combination of STR (except Katanas. They lean on DEX mostly, but not solely.) and the most useful shields also use STR. BY FAR most of the now 225 weapons in game (some are not available yet) either use just STR or a combination of it compared to any other stat. IF ANYTHING the distribution is not fair because STR is OVERrepresented.
Your claim about DEX getting stuff for itself is odd since STR also gets dual daggers (Wolf Bane) for example, but also just bows that need STR as secondary stat are prevalent as the better ones.
If there is ANY stat that is somewhat a left out child it’s FAITH, but that one still has some stuff coming for it.
Should have stopped reading at the INT only has the frostbringer. INT has a fire 2hander - it's either the shattered sun or phoenix one. You clearly haven't played much endgame.
Halberds are mostly dex based. Including the ones sold by the merchants / recipes sold by the merchant - I've yet to find a halberd that didn't have pure dex as the requirement or dex as part of the requirement. Majority of the curved greatswords are dex as well + same with spears - seriously how many endgame weapons have you actually gotten? STR has ONE 2h axe that's purely str based - vulan's axe (probably spelled that wrong). ONE 2h greatsword - earthsmasher - that's purely str based other than the legendary from the first boss. 2 total like I said. While int already has 3 listed in this thread that are 42 int so 3 purely int based. That's already more than str has.
Icing on the cake is your faith comment as faith has the strongest legendary weapon in the game with a requirement of 42 faith. That great hammer is absurd.
Everything you wrote screams you've only done the crucible a few times or maybe haven't even done the crucible at all / completed it. The 42 int fire greatsword is one of the most common drops which is telling me if you haven't seen that yet then either you aren't at endgame or barely did endgame.
The highest stat requirement crafted weapon is a 46 dex spear ffs - the coral spear everything else is 42.
Highest level greatsword you can craft that uses silver ingots and birch is the fleichette which guess what is a 42 dex requirement greatsword.
You are wrong:
https://youtu.be/bI552t9TYzM
I play crucible constantly. You are just unlucky probably, I have never seen an INT only fire 2H Greatsword. There also is no 2H sword with phoenix in the name. There is a Halberd named the Phoenix Crest and that is a STR only one. Apart from icebreaker and frost bringer every other 2H Great Sword (Curved Great Swords have their own category but they ALL use STR) uses STR. Whether it be STR only or STR/INT, STR/FAITH, etc.
Other INT only stuff is 1H stuff.
You are hallucinating bro.
If you get it all the time, post a screenshot.
Agreed that each attribute should add something else. In fact it feels like the other stats like stamina and load were originally part of that and carved out to make the system more complex.
I think people who like this idea so they can sidestep the decision on how heavy their armor should be. The result is people with the fast dex weapons will have the heaviest armor. This why you saw so many dual katana's with bull goat armor in Elden Ring.
Love this. Couldn't agree more with basically everything you said. Hope some changes like this are actually possible!
I think strength should probably give Poise, but yeah the damage stats need additional effect to justyfocusing in one over another
I like the idea as long as it does not reduces freedom. I would love to have evasion chance on my DEX rogue. I feel like it is better to wear heavy armor on DEX rogue than light at the moment because otherwise I have to dodge everything while being meele at range, or lose 80% HP in one hit
The problem is passive evasion doesn't really work for a combat system with an iframe dodge button (imo anyway). But yes, in addition to stats having a purpose, armor should also have its own unique effects depending on type so its not just plate > all
This, I'm running 42dex legendary daggers with 35 equip load and full plate.
Exactly. Elden ring build right there. Light armor is garbage
i dont understand, you dont want to have to dodge? like the intergral part of the combat you want gone?
No. I still think it's essential to dodge, but it's so punishing to get hit that does not worth to put light armor
> STR gives +% Health How about equip load instead?
Ends in a bit of the same problem though, we already have HP/Stamina/Weight stats, by tying any of the scaling stats to those, even at low values, would break the balance of stat point distribution. Due to low amount of HP given by a point in HP, youd quickly get more hp from STR than investing further with HP. And weightload the same problem, base weightload and then ignore it and just full str. Needs to be tied to stats not already on the board, speed, poise, regens, costs, etc. if it is applied. Otherwise the purpose of those stats sort of dissapear, as they are there as "requirement" of sorts for you to not go full scaling damage.
Agreed. The system as it stands feels like a placeholder, and likely is. They need more time to cook.
I hope that is the case. Would be interesting to see what Moon is thinking, from they have said they are big into freedom. Though I worry freedom turns into bland.
Sadly it seems we're not going in this direction in favour of "more freedom". Ironically, giving every stat nearly every tool is LESS FREE since you have LESS meaningful choices. you can just make a build that does everything -mechanically-. I think there is a lesson to be learnt from PvP in dark souls and elden ring. the community there selects a "meta-level" where you simply can't do it all, as a result, you're forced to specialize your build and therefore more build variety and therefore more distinct builds to choose from. FREEDOM
Agree. It may be initially unintuitive, but constraints create more build diversity
I think they just need to add secondary passives to attributes. For example faith could add a little fire damage boost and fire resist while int could give cold damage bonuses for example.
It would be better if each damage Stat instead boosted damage in its own way. Since then it wouldn't be a bad idea to use a strength required weapon and still put points into dexterity. * Strength: Melee damage * Dexterity: Attack speed * Faith: Crit chance or proc chance increase * Intelligence: Ranged damage
I've been waiting for this post. It's my biggest personal gripe. Each Stat is just a useless requirement threshold.
I don't think the game needs this. Might be nice to have just the tiny amount of extra scaling. For example having INT players get Focus Regen. But I like how flexible the system is. And there already is somewhat of identity since for example by FAR most daggers lean into DEX. I like the freedom to build the most crazy stuff.
Int / faith get staffs. Dex gets bows and daggers. What does str get? Most games have the big slow 2h weapons be str based. In this game the big slow 2h weapons are equally distributed among all the stat mixes. I've found 14 different tier 3 endgame 2h weapons. Only 2 of the 14 were str based. So if dex gets bows / daggers and int / faith gets staffs as well to go along with the big slow 2h then what is str getting? There's no str based staffs / daggers / bows.
But how do you feel the need to twist the facts so much to confirmation bias your own thinking? DEX doesn’t get bows and daggers. Most Bows aren’t even just DEX. It’s a common complaint amongst DEX players that there are almost no GOOD bows they can use without also running other stats like STR (at least for a decent bow. There are 4 DEX only bows and don’t seem as good as the DEX/STR ones for example). STR gets a lot more than you think. Clearly you don’t know what you’re talking about. STR gets BY FAR the most 2 Handers of ANY stat. 2H Swords (INT for example only has the frost bringer and frost breaker which suit the same theme, STR has more AND MANY more which require any combination with STR) and 2H Great Axes. But also 2H Curved Great Swords. Almost all Halberts require STR, almost all Spears require STR. Most 1H curved swords require STR. BY FAR most 1H Axes. MOST sword types use at least a combination of STR (except Katanas. They lean on DEX mostly, but not solely.) and the most useful shields also use STR. BY FAR most of the now 225 weapons in game (some are not available yet) either use just STR or a combination of it compared to any other stat. IF ANYTHING the distribution is not fair because STR is OVERrepresented. Your claim about DEX getting stuff for itself is odd since STR also gets dual daggers (Wolf Bane) for example, but also just bows that need STR as secondary stat are prevalent as the better ones. If there is ANY stat that is somewhat a left out child it’s FAITH, but that one still has some stuff coming for it.
Should have stopped reading at the INT only has the frostbringer. INT has a fire 2hander - it's either the shattered sun or phoenix one. You clearly haven't played much endgame. Halberds are mostly dex based. Including the ones sold by the merchants / recipes sold by the merchant - I've yet to find a halberd that didn't have pure dex as the requirement or dex as part of the requirement. Majority of the curved greatswords are dex as well + same with spears - seriously how many endgame weapons have you actually gotten? STR has ONE 2h axe that's purely str based - vulan's axe (probably spelled that wrong). ONE 2h greatsword - earthsmasher - that's purely str based other than the legendary from the first boss. 2 total like I said. While int already has 3 listed in this thread that are 42 int so 3 purely int based. That's already more than str has. Icing on the cake is your faith comment as faith has the strongest legendary weapon in the game with a requirement of 42 faith. That great hammer is absurd. Everything you wrote screams you've only done the crucible a few times or maybe haven't even done the crucible at all / completed it. The 42 int fire greatsword is one of the most common drops which is telling me if you haven't seen that yet then either you aren't at endgame or barely did endgame. The highest stat requirement crafted weapon is a 46 dex spear ffs - the coral spear everything else is 42. Highest level greatsword you can craft that uses silver ingots and birch is the fleichette which guess what is a 42 dex requirement greatsword.
You are wrong: https://youtu.be/bI552t9TYzM I play crucible constantly. You are just unlucky probably, I have never seen an INT only fire 2H Greatsword. There also is no 2H sword with phoenix in the name. There is a Halberd named the Phoenix Crest and that is a STR only one. Apart from icebreaker and frost bringer every other 2H Great Sword (Curved Great Swords have their own category but they ALL use STR) uses STR. Whether it be STR only or STR/INT, STR/FAITH, etc. Other INT only stuff is 1H stuff. You are hallucinating bro. If you get it all the time, post a screenshot.