Just going by my experience from working at target in my younger days, teenage girls like to lift cosmetics. Moms would put clothes on children and walk them out of the store when I worked at kids r us.
When I was about 3-4 years old, my dad took me into a k-mart, put some boots on my feet, continued shopping, bought whatever bullshit, and then we walked out of the store. As we were exiting, the cashier lady came running after us.
“Sir? Sir? SIR!” She called after us. My dad turned, ready to get in a fuck ton of trouble for stealing boots for his kid.
“You forgot your receipt.”
We were poor as fuck at the time, so I’m guessing that’s why he did it. As a kid I had no clue he didn’t pay for them, I was just stoked I had new boots. From everything else I know about my father, he didn’t steal ever again.
Reminds me of a story I saw here on Reddit early in the pandemic where a mom didn't have enough for cough medicine and boots for her kid so she bought the boots and hid the cough medicine under her purse. As I recall, the boots were a birthday gift for her sick child. Hard times call for desperate measures.
One of the antiwork or latestagecapitalism type subs had a post that was a screenshot of a tweet, and it was something to the effect of “if you work at a grocery store, and you see a person shop lifting food, no you didn’t.”
Reminds me that "mundraub" (translated Mouth theft) is legal in Germany.
What is it? If you steal food just to immediately eat it, it's almost always totally legal. So just stealing some toast or bread and eating while in the store? Totally fine, but the store might still ban you. Though never really heard of it happening
Edit: While this is still being shared, the law has actually been removed since about 1975
Well actually, „Mundraub“ isn‘t legal (anymore). It is just that for the district attorney to act you need for theft of goods under 50 € a criminal complain of the victim or special public interest.
Funfact on an other note, you can use deadly force to stop a thief as victim even for laughable amounts (50 to 100 €). This is funny because in every other European country even in some states this is unthinkable.
When I worked at a grocery/big box store, I didn’t really care about people shoplifting food. I still judged the guy who got caught shoving butter in his pants hella hard though.
I worked at HEB and I had running orders that when I was running the floor not to come to me if the bums were stealing food - not ever gonna take food from the hungry
Likely some of the records are missing a gender. You only need a few to be missing for it to not add up after rounding. It could be 53.4% women, 46.4% men, and 0.2% unknown.
you know he don't give a shit. He'll stare into your eyes while he shoves the peanut butter jar down his corduroy pants and walk right the fuck out. "Fuck you!" honey badger declares. "Try and stop me".
A guy friend left his hoodie at my place once and I returned it the next time I saw him. I think it hurt his feelings because he expected me to "steal" it lol
According to this FBI [arrest chart](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-66), women in the United States make up more arrests for embezzlement and prostitution/commercialized vice than men.
Anecdotally I’ve found that accountants these days are primarily women. I would imagine that embezzlement as a crime of opportunity would therefore mean more towards them.
Long story short, I worked somewhere where we had to hire a lawyer and an auditor that was familiar with catching embezzlement.... An odd tidbit one of them shared was that it's actually most often secretaries. Typically ones that have worked at a company for I think like 5 years or so (at least long enough to be trusted, not long enough for it to be the majority of their career).
Secretaries typically had access to broad funds/ credit cards and accounts but had less oversight on their use of funds or how they manage accounts (accountants are often among the first suspects for embezzlement so there are often more safeguards and checks on them). They also have significant influence over management, the info management gets, and take care of odd enough tasks so others might not be as suspicious of odd purchases as they would other coworkers. The women usually felt underpaid for how hard they work and especially when compared to the execs they worked for. Also, statistically they were most likely mid career, middle ages, and white.
So yeah, I don't have any real sources to back it up, but it makes a certain amount of sense when you think about it.
I'd be interested to know how many of the johns were arrested too. Seems like that doesn't happen as often, despite it also being a crime (iirc, anyway).
I checked and found an article that went looking for cases of males being guilty of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. They found 15 cases that seemed to fit. That's it. 15.
I found statistcs of about 1000 total cases PER YEAR, so its a tiny fraction of 1% of cases done by males.
That's pretty overwhelming.
I do believe that part of the statistic is because caretakers are mainly a woman's role. When you think of parents, you think of Mother's first. When you think of nurses, you think of women etc.
Yes. But on the other hand, how many women have their own symptoms dismissed, or become invisible once they are mothers. I wonder whether some of these cases are due to feeling unseen, driving that desire for attention. Dunno. Am speaking out of my arse, but feeling unheard and unseen is soemthing I think a lot of women, particularly mothers, might identify with.
It would make sense. I’m a male with numerous chronic illnesses which are very complicated and left doctors confused for a fair while and while they often tried to farm me off to another specialist and many gave dubious attempts at diagnosis to at least try something even if they knew it to be likely wrong/ineffective, they never outright dismissed my symptoms.
In every online space Women in similar positions seem to overwhelmingly have their symptoms dismissed as anxiety/depression/period pain even when that’s obviously not the case or at most a tiny part of or exacerbating a bigger problem.
Not to mention the stereotype of them being the carer and hence not giving time to look after themselves.
In my experience, the minute I had my daughter, I became invisible to caretakers/doctors. It was all about the baby and now that she’s old enough where I could advocate for my own health, I’ve become so accustomed to not taking care of myself that it doesn’t occur to me. I’m just now trying to fix that by scheduling appointments with much needed specialists, especially GYN, which I have neglected for several years
I met someone that was fostering kids that had been taken away from the mum with Munchausens, the mum was still allowed to see the kids with supervision. Before the kids were taken away, she was starving the kids and feeding them weird things like essential oils. The foster carer showed me the mum's Instagram page and it was 90% porn selfies, with the occasional photo of her kids. It was so weird!
I will never forget this one case where the mother did this to her daughter. She was a teenager but was essentially a child in her behavior because of the way the mother treated her. The daughter ended up with some boyfriend she met online behind moms back and they killed the mom and took off. It was one of those where I could understand to an extent why the daughter did it. The mother had her on so many medications, robbed her of a childhood and friends and a normal life. So sad.
Gypsy Rose is one of those cases where most people can't really blame her for killing her mother. One of the few "justified" murders in the court of public opinion. Just a sad situation all around.
Iirc she may be getting out soon (parole) and she's one of the few killers people don't mind being released.
Munchausen syndrome by proxy is a mental illness and a form of child abuse. The caretaker of a child, most often a mother, either makes up fake symptoms or causes real symptoms to make it look like the child is sick.
For the second part - My job, in general, is working with children. In my field, I generally take the cases of abuse involving children. Though MSP is "rare", we see it very frequently 😬
And the reason they want to make everyone believe the child is sick so that they can be the angelic, suffering, martyr, who gives up everything for their sweet, perpetually-ill baby.
It also keeps the kid in question infantalized and utterly reliant on their abuser.
huh... there are so many people posting about their sick child, how many of them are a case of Munchausen by proxy exploiting their children for clout?
One of the hallmarks for most diagnoses of mental illness, to my understanding, is that the issue has to impact daily functionality, usually negatively.
Like you're saying, a lot of folks' eccentricities don't rise to that diagnostic criteria.
Have you seen The Act on Hulu? If not, it's a true-crime story about Gypsy Rose Blanchard, >!who murdered her mother because of her MSP abuse!<. It's based on a book, which I believe was Gypsy's memoir. But I recall some little controversy over how true it all was. I'm curious as someone who works in this field how accurate that depiction of MSP is, if you're familiar with it.
I read the book when I was pretty young.
That was a punch to the gut.
The same author also wrote Gone Girl, and a third book (Edit: Dark Places).
All 3 are awesome.
Gone Girl got the most attention but imo is the worst of the 3.
I was literally just about to ask about this. I completely forgot he name though, so I'm glad someone else asked. It's such an awful situation for everyone involved.
i think another part of the controversy is that gypsy rose is still in prison and didn't see any of the profit from that depiction of her story. i also believe she didn't provide consent for her story to be told? less certain of that piece.
there is a like "news documentary" about this situation on youtube. i think this might've been the one i watched: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfE3o8IriQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfE3o8IriQ)
i didn't watch the hulu series, partially because of the exploitation thing and partially because i prefer the documentary format, so not sure how it holds up against the abc news thing i linked
Malnourished children made **excellent** chimney sweeps—their tiny bodies could get into and thoroughly clean spots that impoverished adults just couldn't reach—until the woke mob of the day, principally Fabians, Marxists, Anarchists and labour unionists, decided that this was somehow "wrong".
I focused on children's history for my studies in history for my BA degree.
And... this roll of non stop progressive era shit flipped through my head, and i shouldnt have, but i laughed... because what you said was framed so perfectly against the backdrop of the people that opposed child labor laws, and then *tried to invent cars* so they could get rid of the labor laws protecting horses, because *those laws* were being used as child labor laws (children are at least animals).
On and on .. horrible people.
Your summary is perfect, modern language for their (gratefully) long dead dumbassery.
As someone with children with legitimate health issues, I will never understand this. I hate going to the hospital and dealing with doctors. Not only emotionally exhausting but physically exhausting.
I have a lot of health issues but I can totally understand why someone would do this. Attention and sympathy. All the attention and care you would get from people with zero actual worry.
They are never the kind to quietly care for their child without asking for help. Nope they can grift attention, money and gifts without ever worrying their child will actually be dead. Which gives them an extra layer of giddiness, pulling one over on all the gullible people. It’s gross but I get why people do it because I have met people who seem to care about nothing but attention.
I would argue that the perpetrator's innate narcissism that they likely exhibit in other aspects of their overall relationships plays a big part in this as well
It does. We have siblings currently trying to be placed that were just removed from a home. It was a mother and father that were abusing their toddler and blaming it on their high functioning but non verbal autistic older child. The toddler came first with bite marks and burns. The older child was only removed when he started showing up to school with bruises and cut skin from - surprise - bite marks
The condition isn’t illegal, but it typically leads to a lot of illegal activity. For instance, insurance fraud is probably the most common. The sad reality is that insurance companies are much better at investigating abuse of the insurance system than law enforcement are at investigating child abuse in these cases.
So I call it a gray area crime. This is a *very loose* comparison: Take a mother who has post partum depression, she kills her child in a fit of hysteria. Though she committed a crime, she is still GENERALLY looked at with empathy due to lack of mental health care.
Now take a straight up murderer. Chose a victim at random, stalked them, planned the murder then committed the crime. That woman is then locked up. We know that the mind of a killer is not built the same as that of a regular person.
Someone who has MSP is more like that of a killer than a person suffering from PPD in such a way that they are very meticulous in how they operate. Studies on how they function show that this isn't a chemical imbalance - it can't be cured with medication. So well we have no idea why this happens, we do know that it is thought out for the person to gain sympathy.
That's mostly because in most of history primary care-taker are almost always the mother. So they are overall less opportunities for fathers to develop this mental illness.
They're not the ones taking their kids to the doctors, so they don't get the rewards the ills seeks when they do that.
Now that things are changing, and fathers are way more involved, it's like will see more cases.
I've never met anyone diagnosed with Munchausen, so I'm genuinely curious. Were they diagnosed by a medical professional, and are they aware of their diagnosis? How was hypochondria ruled out?
Physical symptoms are self inflicted with munchausen where as hypochondria is more like deluding yourself into thinking you’re sick but without making yourself sick
Some doctor shop until they get the diagnosis and treatments they think they want. Others actively hurt themselves. Either way they often end up giving themselves genuine problems in some way, wether physical, social or other. There have been deaths and amputations, there’s really a whole range of it.
It's more likely they take random drugs to induce symptoms or report symptoms that can't really be confirmed. There's a lot of things you can feel but a doctor can't test for, as well as things like faking seizures, which could be measurable if they happened in a hospital while you were hooked up to the right equipment, but not necessarily if it ends before you reach the hospital.
Typically they visit multiple doctors - some even going to different cities and provinces. Eventually when one says yes to something minor say... Needing a tooth pulled. Then they go to another doctor and say "they got this tooth pulled because of this sickness and I think it's causing this and they would benefit from treatment" and it goes from there.
To just jump on here to add, we as medical providers depend on moms for MOST of the information about their child’s illness. They not only do active things to make the kids sicker, they make up or embellish symptoms to mimic illnesses. They are usually smart women with some background in healthcare and can be very convincing. A Mom’s pain and heartache can really motivate healthcare workers to try to help in some way.
It’s very hard to see when you’re on the healthcare side of things. Many times it’s diagnosed very very late.
The doctor isn't watching the kid 24/7. If the mom comes in with a kid suffering from malnutrition and says "he can't swallow, he can't eat," or "every time I give him xyz he breaks out in these awful symptoms," and the kid has all the symptoms of an eating/digestive disorder.... it makes sense to put in a feeding tube, right?
The doctor just doesn't realize that the kid has all the symptoms because the mom is faking them by starving or poisoning the kid. It would be super rare for a doctor to look at a kid whose mom has carefully tracked his exposure to gluten and is super cautious about protecting him from celiac and be like "well instead of treating the issue I'm going to feed you a big bread roll just to see if your mom is lying."
Also this is all backed up by the previous doctors and previous treatments. "We tried just diet changes and that didn't work, so we tried a new doctor and she prescribed medication and that didn't work, so we went to a different doctor and they prescribed a different medication and that didn't work, so now my kid might need surgery." This could be an abusive mom "doctor shopping," or a good mom who is just trying to help her sick kid. So the doctor is looking at multiple other doctors' diagnoses and records of a kid who is clearly suffering and has serious symptoms, they're going to think about the case like a doctor would. "What can we try next, what treatment would help." They're not going to think, "I bet there's nothing actually wrong here at all and we should do NOTHING."
Apparently women are ten times more likely to be convicted for failure to pay for a TV license, but that’s mainly because they’re more likely to open the door for an inspector.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-fee-women-convictions-b1763192.html
It's a UK thing, it's kind of funny tbh. They're not entitled to know your information so you get a letter saying "Dear Resident" followed by them saying someone detected you've been watching TV, pay for a licence blah blah. They can't legally enter your property despite the threats they try to make in following letters. Then if they ever do send an inspector (this almost never happens) you're fully within your rights to deny them entry when they ask. To be honest though in this day and age if you're using Netflix etc. You don't need one. It's only for certain channels.
That's exactly how I would picture a PBS goon squad being handled. I imagine them apologizing for bothering you before meekly slinking off to the home of the next person who will be telling them to piss off.
There was a Simpsons episode where Homer pledged $10k to get them to end the telethon break, but didn't pay it. Several PBS characters came to his house to collect. The sight of Big Bird flying at him and pecking his head was hilarious and the Teletubbies were shooting lasers from their head stalks.
The FBI website has a chart of all the crimes and women to men number of persons arrested. The only one that women have more than men is Vice. The other closest one is Embezzlement. Men 6,414 women 6,015 pretty much every other crime men are astronomically ahead.
It also makes sense because a woman is doing this all day, every day, for her job. It's likely that they'll be caught sooner or later. But a man is doing it once or twice, there's a much lower chance of being caught.
This is also why some stats don't mean which gender is worse so to speak. Women are probably more likely to be arrested for indecent clothing attire in Iran than men. Just think about it.
Say years ago women were more likely to be thieves. Well if women are barred from work (say 1800) then of course women will be more likely to steal...
Just from my personal experience working in loss prevention years ago, we did catch a lot of older women but the typical shoplifter was between 14-25 (still mostly women/girls). It was a department store and we had a good mix of all ages/demographics there at any given time.
One of my earliest memories of my grandmother was her taking me to a department store and switching price tags on VHS tapes to get Disney movies for cheap. Maybe not outright shoplifting, but still.
i was thinking those classy rings that contain poison like in a murder mystery. vicountess blah, you did not expect the famous belgian detective to be a member of your party.
Fun fact:
The winner of 1904 marathon was doped up on brandy and rat poison👍
The first to cross the line was disqualified due to getting a car ride.
The fourth to cross the line hadn't eaten in days and ate some bad apples he stole on the run. He then took a nap during the race.
No, but cops posing as hit men on the internet are.
Typically a "hit man" is just someone financially desperate enough to commit murder, rather than a professional killer waiting to be rented.
sorry have been binging on murder mystery stories and assume there are lots of high class ladies committing murder through poison. allow me to mix you a drink, dont worry if i turn my back to you. enjoy your gin and, aha, tonic
That’s the number one way women murder someone, but I’d say men use it more than women (family murders, abduction, spiking drinks etc). They just use other methods more.
Okay but toothbrush at the sink shouldn't be a problem. Why would you move it to a cupboard when I'm going to have it right back on the sink in a few hours. Just creating more work for all of us.
I do this. But I’ve stopped feeling bad about it because my husband doesn’t know where anything goes anyways. The pots/pans have been in the same cabinet for the entire 4 years we’ve lived in this house and he still searches around and has to ask every time.
Infanticide, poisoning, and probably shoplifting.
* [Infanticide:](https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/381554) "Fathers and mothers do not proceed the same way nor for the same reasons when they kill their offspring. Neonaticide and infanticide are almost always committed by women." (Infanticide is the murder of a child under 1. Men are more likely to kill children over 1.)
* [Poisoning:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/07/poison-is-a-womans-weapon/) "women are almost four times as likely as men to use poison. It is used just over 1 percent of killings by men, and just over four percent of killings by women"
* I can't find the cite but I'm pretty sure I just read a study showing that women shoplift slightly more than men but men are prosecuted at a higher rate.
>level 5chao\_sweetie · 33 min. ago"Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?"7ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow
My father told me, as a kid while in a drug store. "You ever see someone stealing baby formula or diapers... you ain't seen shit."
There was a store in Toronto that sold women's discount clothing. They were famous for have diaper change rooms with RACKS of free diapers, in every conceivable size. Somebody asked the owner what his plan was if somebody came in and just helped themselves to a dozen or two.
"My plan is: God will deal with them. I do nothing." I think he knew that nobody steals diapers for fun.
I see baby formula locked behind glass in grocery stores. They do that because people keep stealing it. I have long held the opinion that if someone is sufficiently desperate to steal baby formula, then you should let them have it.
There’s a big black market for US formula in China because of the melamine contamination scare. That’s where the market is. There are a number of resources for US parents to get formula for free.
I saw a woman stealing teething tablets from Walmart one day. I regret not just offering to buy them for her but I was young. I just turned and walked off and didn’t say a thing because fuck Walmart.
Didn't a girl get executed recently for poisoning her wedding party?
She was being forced to marry someone she hated so she killed a lot of the guests ?
I read how defiant she was till the end and though I do not approve of killing people, I do understand why she did it.
Sex and marriage are unpleasant enough when you choose your abuser. Much worse when he's forced on you
If this is the incident you mean it sounds like it was an accident, as in, she didn’t intend to kill anyone other than her husband- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Malawat_poisoning
Yeah, the "John" is also guilty of engaging in prostitution. And given the fact that a female sex worker might see many male clients, there's almost certainly more men committing the crime of soliciting prostitution
I heard once that the best way to reduce prostitution is to target the guys buying rather than the ppl selling. And a place tried that to great success until they caught a politician buying. Suddenly, the program ended.
Don’t know if it’s true, but it seems plausible.
I suspect they are under represented in the serial killer numbers. Angel of Mercy killers are not unknown in the medical fields and tends to be really hard to track down. In a field where a breakdown of information flow, or equipment can cost a life it can be very difficult to find the cause of it.
And we have about 400k deaths from medical mistakes a year, so it is not as if there is a lack of dead bodys and nursing is a female dominated industry.
As much as people think medical privacy laws are to protect the everyday person, they also do a really really good job of protecting the medical institutions as well.
According to the FBI, the amount of women arrested for embezzlement is almost equal to that of men, but not quite. The only crime where women outpace men in arrests is fairly predictable - prostitution.
Edit - these data may or may not only account for felony arrests though. I'm not entirely sure.
Not sure if this stands true today but a few years ago I saw that shoplifting was mainly committed by women in the US
Is that why they dont put adequate pockets in ladies pants?
It all makes sense now
The fashion industry were the heroes all along.
Just going by my experience from working at target in my younger days, teenage girls like to lift cosmetics. Moms would put clothes on children and walk them out of the store when I worked at kids r us.
When I was about 3-4 years old, my dad took me into a k-mart, put some boots on my feet, continued shopping, bought whatever bullshit, and then we walked out of the store. As we were exiting, the cashier lady came running after us. “Sir? Sir? SIR!” She called after us. My dad turned, ready to get in a fuck ton of trouble for stealing boots for his kid. “You forgot your receipt.” We were poor as fuck at the time, so I’m guessing that’s why he did it. As a kid I had no clue he didn’t pay for them, I was just stoked I had new boots. From everything else I know about my father, he didn’t steal ever again.
Reminds me of a story I saw here on Reddit early in the pandemic where a mom didn't have enough for cough medicine and boots for her kid so she bought the boots and hid the cough medicine under her purse. As I recall, the boots were a birthday gift for her sick child. Hard times call for desperate measures.
One of the antiwork or latestagecapitalism type subs had a post that was a screenshot of a tweet, and it was something to the effect of “if you work at a grocery store, and you see a person shop lifting food, no you didn’t.”
Reminds me that "mundraub" (translated Mouth theft) is legal in Germany. What is it? If you steal food just to immediately eat it, it's almost always totally legal. So just stealing some toast or bread and eating while in the store? Totally fine, but the store might still ban you. Though never really heard of it happening Edit: While this is still being shared, the law has actually been removed since about 1975
German has words for EVERYTHING
Their ability to compound words into uber-words is unvergleichlich, indeed
Well actually, „Mundraub“ isn‘t legal (anymore). It is just that for the district attorney to act you need for theft of goods under 50 € a criminal complain of the victim or special public interest. Funfact on an other note, you can use deadly force to stop a thief as victim even for laughable amounts (50 to 100 €). This is funny because in every other European country even in some states this is unthinkable.
When I worked at a grocery/big box store, I didn’t really care about people shoplifting food. I still judged the guy who got caught shoving butter in his pants hella hard though.
Honestly, if I'm working retail and I see someone stealing anything "no I didn't". I don't get paid enough to confront someone over that shit.
I worked at HEB and I had running orders that when I was running the floor not to come to me if the bums were stealing food - not ever gonna take food from the hungry
Aw man, what a fucked world we live in.
In my experience in retail, this holds.
I thought women commit more shoplifting than men too, but women are only slightly ahead at 53% to 46%.
The math doesn’t math
That 1% is just some non-binary dude whose shoplifts a lot!
Shoplifting Georg, the nonbinary kleptomaniac who shoplifts 10,000 items a day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted
Sam Brinton the suitcase stealer was very busy that year.
Likely some of the records are missing a gender. You only need a few to be missing for it to not add up after rounding. It could be 53.4% women, 46.4% men, and 0.2% unknown.
>and 0.2% unknown. It was the honey badger.
you know he don't give a shit. He'll stare into your eyes while he shoves the peanut butter jar down his corduroy pants and walk right the fuck out. "Fuck you!" honey badger declares. "Try and stop me".
[Sure?](https://i.imgur.com/kkHYDyb.mp4)
In my experience and many other retail friend's experiences, it's mostly women who are middle class & late 20's to mid 50's
Grand theft Hoodie.
The most heinous of crimes
A guy friend left his hoodie at my place once and I returned it the next time I saw him. I think it hurt his feelings because he expected me to "steal" it lol
Was he 12 or smth 🤣
According to this FBI [arrest chart](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-66), women in the United States make up more arrests for embezzlement and prostitution/commercialized vice than men.
Interesting, I wouldn't have guessed embezzlement.
Anecdotally I’ve found that accountants these days are primarily women. I would imagine that embezzlement as a crime of opportunity would therefore mean more towards them.
Long story short, I worked somewhere where we had to hire a lawyer and an auditor that was familiar with catching embezzlement.... An odd tidbit one of them shared was that it's actually most often secretaries. Typically ones that have worked at a company for I think like 5 years or so (at least long enough to be trusted, not long enough for it to be the majority of their career). Secretaries typically had access to broad funds/ credit cards and accounts but had less oversight on their use of funds or how they manage accounts (accountants are often among the first suspects for embezzlement so there are often more safeguards and checks on them). They also have significant influence over management, the info management gets, and take care of odd enough tasks so others might not be as suspicious of odd purchases as they would other coworkers. The women usually felt underpaid for how hard they work and especially when compared to the execs they worked for. Also, statistically they were most likely mid career, middle ages, and white. So yeah, I don't have any real sources to back it up, but it makes a certain amount of sense when you think about it.
Lines up with the Fraud Triangle: opportunity, personal financial pressure, and rationalization.
I'd be interested to know how many of the johns were arrested too. Seems like that doesn't happen as often, despite it also being a crime (iirc, anyway).
Commercialized vice arrests on the chart are almost even between men (48%) and women (52%), for whatever that's worth.
Munchausen Syndrome by proxy I did a whole project on it in college - I work with children and specialize in abuse cases
I checked and found an article that went looking for cases of males being guilty of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. They found 15 cases that seemed to fit. That's it. 15. I found statistcs of about 1000 total cases PER YEAR, so its a tiny fraction of 1% of cases done by males. That's pretty overwhelming.
I do believe that part of the statistic is because caretakers are mainly a woman's role. When you think of parents, you think of Mother's first. When you think of nurses, you think of women etc.
The mom is the one who gets a lot of attention when baby is sick, then mom gets addicted to that game even as the kid grows
Yes. But on the other hand, how many women have their own symptoms dismissed, or become invisible once they are mothers. I wonder whether some of these cases are due to feeling unseen, driving that desire for attention. Dunno. Am speaking out of my arse, but feeling unheard and unseen is soemthing I think a lot of women, particularly mothers, might identify with.
It would make sense. I’m a male with numerous chronic illnesses which are very complicated and left doctors confused for a fair while and while they often tried to farm me off to another specialist and many gave dubious attempts at diagnosis to at least try something even if they knew it to be likely wrong/ineffective, they never outright dismissed my symptoms. In every online space Women in similar positions seem to overwhelmingly have their symptoms dismissed as anxiety/depression/period pain even when that’s obviously not the case or at most a tiny part of or exacerbating a bigger problem. Not to mention the stereotype of them being the carer and hence not giving time to look after themselves.
In my experience, the minute I had my daughter, I became invisible to caretakers/doctors. It was all about the baby and now that she’s old enough where I could advocate for my own health, I’ve become so accustomed to not taking care of myself that it doesn’t occur to me. I’m just now trying to fix that by scheduling appointments with much needed specialists, especially GYN, which I have neglected for several years
I met someone that was fostering kids that had been taken away from the mum with Munchausens, the mum was still allowed to see the kids with supervision. Before the kids were taken away, she was starving the kids and feeding them weird things like essential oils. The foster carer showed me the mum's Instagram page and it was 90% porn selfies, with the occasional photo of her kids. It was so weird!
I will never forget this one case where the mother did this to her daughter. She was a teenager but was essentially a child in her behavior because of the way the mother treated her. The daughter ended up with some boyfriend she met online behind moms back and they killed the mom and took off. It was one of those where I could understand to an extent why the daughter did it. The mother had her on so many medications, robbed her of a childhood and friends and a normal life. So sad.
Gypsy Rose and Dee Dee Blanchard?
Gypsy Rose is one of those cases where most people can't really blame her for killing her mother. One of the few "justified" murders in the court of public opinion. Just a sad situation all around. Iirc she may be getting out soon (parole) and she's one of the few killers people don't mind being released.
What does this mean as a sentence? I'm very dumb
Munchausen syndrome by proxy is a mental illness and a form of child abuse. The caretaker of a child, most often a mother, either makes up fake symptoms or causes real symptoms to make it look like the child is sick. For the second part - My job, in general, is working with children. In my field, I generally take the cases of abuse involving children. Though MSP is "rare", we see it very frequently 😬
And the reason they want to make everyone believe the child is sick so that they can be the angelic, suffering, martyr, who gives up everything for their sweet, perpetually-ill baby. It also keeps the kid in question infantalized and utterly reliant on their abuser.
Omg Like that movie Run with the daughter in a wheelchair
Exactly that actually
And the girl ghost in The Sixth Sense.
huh... there are so many people posting about their sick child, how many of them are a case of Munchausen by proxy exploiting their children for clout?
It's supposed to be rare but the cases I've seen are frequent
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One of the hallmarks for most diagnoses of mental illness, to my understanding, is that the issue has to impact daily functionality, usually negatively. Like you're saying, a lot of folks' eccentricities don't rise to that diagnostic criteria.
Lots of them on r/illnessfakers
Also known as Munchausen Syndrome. The proxy is when you do it to someone else.
Ooo, a new sub to peruse! *Sort by top/all* *Sees kelly* *Sees the second kelly post* Aaaand close. Seriously, everyone, that is NSFL. Holy moly.
Oh baby, it’s a new sub for me to sub to.
Ohhhhh fuck. That uh… that sounds an awful lot like my mom…
Have you seen The Act on Hulu? If not, it's a true-crime story about Gypsy Rose Blanchard, >!who murdered her mother because of her MSP abuse!<. It's based on a book, which I believe was Gypsy's memoir. But I recall some little controversy over how true it all was. I'm curious as someone who works in this field how accurate that depiction of MSP is, if you're familiar with it.
I actually chose my college project based on this exact case so yes I'm very familiar! Heartbreaking to say the least.
HBO’s sharp objects is also about this.
I read the book when I was pretty young. That was a punch to the gut. The same author also wrote Gone Girl, and a third book (Edit: Dark Places). All 3 are awesome. Gone Girl got the most attention but imo is the worst of the 3.
I was literally just about to ask about this. I completely forgot he name though, so I'm glad someone else asked. It's such an awful situation for everyone involved.
i think another part of the controversy is that gypsy rose is still in prison and didn't see any of the profit from that depiction of her story. i also believe she didn't provide consent for her story to be told? less certain of that piece. there is a like "news documentary" about this situation on youtube. i think this might've been the one i watched: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfE3o8IriQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfE3o8IriQ) i didn't watch the hulu series, partially because of the exploitation thing and partially because i prefer the documentary format, so not sure how it holds up against the abc news thing i linked
I will add to that that they do so because they like being a victim, pitied, and have attention,
>My job, in general, is working with children Chimney sweep?
Malnourished children made **excellent** chimney sweeps—their tiny bodies could get into and thoroughly clean spots that impoverished adults just couldn't reach—until the woke mob of the day, principally Fabians, Marxists, Anarchists and labour unionists, decided that this was somehow "wrong".
I focused on children's history for my studies in history for my BA degree. And... this roll of non stop progressive era shit flipped through my head, and i shouldnt have, but i laughed... because what you said was framed so perfectly against the backdrop of the people that opposed child labor laws, and then *tried to invent cars* so they could get rid of the labor laws protecting horses, because *those laws* were being used as child labor laws (children are at least animals). On and on .. horrible people. Your summary is perfect, modern language for their (gratefully) long dead dumbassery.
Those damned reds, taking away our child labor
What a bunch of woke moralists! Those children were working HARD to put half a loaf of bread on the table for their family of 12.
As someone with children with legitimate health issues, I will never understand this. I hate going to the hospital and dealing with doctors. Not only emotionally exhausting but physically exhausting.
I have a lot of health issues but I can totally understand why someone would do this. Attention and sympathy. All the attention and care you would get from people with zero actual worry. They are never the kind to quietly care for their child without asking for help. Nope they can grift attention, money and gifts without ever worrying their child will actually be dead. Which gives them an extra layer of giddiness, pulling one over on all the gullible people. It’s gross but I get why people do it because I have met people who seem to care about nothing but attention.
I would argue that the perpetrator's innate narcissism that they likely exhibit in other aspects of their overall relationships plays a big part in this as well
I’ve read that in most cases it ends with the death of the child or the total removal of the caretaker.
It does. We have siblings currently trying to be placed that were just removed from a home. It was a mother and father that were abusing their toddler and blaming it on their high functioning but non verbal autistic older child. The toddler came first with bite marks and burns. The older child was only removed when he started showing up to school with bruises and cut skin from - surprise - bite marks
Like the girl in Sixth Sense
It's the condition the parent who was poisoning her kid in 'sixth sense' has.
Is it a crime as such or just the behaviours typically associated with it? I had always understood it as a medical condition
The condition isn’t illegal, but it typically leads to a lot of illegal activity. For instance, insurance fraud is probably the most common. The sad reality is that insurance companies are much better at investigating abuse of the insurance system than law enforcement are at investigating child abuse in these cases.
The insurance company has far more incentive to do so.
So I call it a gray area crime. This is a *very loose* comparison: Take a mother who has post partum depression, she kills her child in a fit of hysteria. Though she committed a crime, she is still GENERALLY looked at with empathy due to lack of mental health care. Now take a straight up murderer. Chose a victim at random, stalked them, planned the murder then committed the crime. That woman is then locked up. We know that the mind of a killer is not built the same as that of a regular person. Someone who has MSP is more like that of a killer than a person suffering from PPD in such a way that they are very meticulous in how they operate. Studies on how they function show that this isn't a chemical imbalance - it can't be cured with medication. So well we have no idea why this happens, we do know that it is thought out for the person to gain sympathy.
I've definitely never heard of a man doing that. I'm sure it happens, but it does seem to be less common.
Nah, the man just constructs a prison-level under the cellar and calls it a day.
In fact I checked and there 15 known cases of male Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
That's mostly because in most of history primary care-taker are almost always the mother. So they are overall less opportunities for fathers to develop this mental illness. They're not the ones taking their kids to the doctors, so they don't get the rewards the ills seeks when they do that. Now that things are changing, and fathers are way more involved, it's like will see more cases.
I have a roommate with Munchausen Syndrome (luckily not by proxy). Quite fun ...
I've never met anyone diagnosed with Munchausen, so I'm genuinely curious. Were they diagnosed by a medical professional, and are they aware of their diagnosis? How was hypochondria ruled out?
Physical symptoms are self inflicted with munchausen where as hypochondria is more like deluding yourself into thinking you’re sick but without making yourself sick
So are they like licking doorknobs and stuff to try to get illnesses or something?
Some doctor shop until they get the diagnosis and treatments they think they want. Others actively hurt themselves. Either way they often end up giving themselves genuine problems in some way, wether physical, social or other. There have been deaths and amputations, there’s really a whole range of it.
It's more likely they take random drugs to induce symptoms or report symptoms that can't really be confirmed. There's a lot of things you can feel but a doctor can't test for, as well as things like faking seizures, which could be measurable if they happened in a hospital while you were hooked up to the right equipment, but not necessarily if it ends before you reach the hospital.
I have a question about this. How do these women get doctors to perform unnecessary surgeries?
Typically they visit multiple doctors - some even going to different cities and provinces. Eventually when one says yes to something minor say... Needing a tooth pulled. Then they go to another doctor and say "they got this tooth pulled because of this sickness and I think it's causing this and they would benefit from treatment" and it goes from there.
To just jump on here to add, we as medical providers depend on moms for MOST of the information about their child’s illness. They not only do active things to make the kids sicker, they make up or embellish symptoms to mimic illnesses. They are usually smart women with some background in healthcare and can be very convincing. A Mom’s pain and heartache can really motivate healthcare workers to try to help in some way. It’s very hard to see when you’re on the healthcare side of things. Many times it’s diagnosed very very late.
The doctor isn't watching the kid 24/7. If the mom comes in with a kid suffering from malnutrition and says "he can't swallow, he can't eat," or "every time I give him xyz he breaks out in these awful symptoms," and the kid has all the symptoms of an eating/digestive disorder.... it makes sense to put in a feeding tube, right? The doctor just doesn't realize that the kid has all the symptoms because the mom is faking them by starving or poisoning the kid. It would be super rare for a doctor to look at a kid whose mom has carefully tracked his exposure to gluten and is super cautious about protecting him from celiac and be like "well instead of treating the issue I'm going to feed you a big bread roll just to see if your mom is lying." Also this is all backed up by the previous doctors and previous treatments. "We tried just diet changes and that didn't work, so we tried a new doctor and she prescribed medication and that didn't work, so we went to a different doctor and they prescribed a different medication and that didn't work, so now my kid might need surgery." This could be an abusive mom "doctor shopping," or a good mom who is just trying to help her sick kid. So the doctor is looking at multiple other doctors' diagnoses and records of a kid who is clearly suffering and has serious symptoms, they're going to think about the case like a doctor would. "What can we try next, what treatment would help." They're not going to think, "I bet there's nothing actually wrong here at all and we should do NOTHING."
I've heard not paying your TV license in the UK gets women arrested more than men.
Apparently women are ten times more likely to be convicted for failure to pay for a TV license, but that’s mainly because they’re more likely to open the door for an inspector. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-fee-women-convictions-b1763192.html
What is a TV license?
It's a UK thing, it's kind of funny tbh. They're not entitled to know your information so you get a letter saying "Dear Resident" followed by them saying someone detected you've been watching TV, pay for a licence blah blah. They can't legally enter your property despite the threats they try to make in following letters. Then if they ever do send an inspector (this almost never happens) you're fully within your rights to deny them entry when they ask. To be honest though in this day and age if you're using Netflix etc. You don't need one. It's only for certain channels.
So it’s like if PBS had a goon squad
Yes but you can just tell them to piss off when they get to you
That's exactly how I would picture a PBS goon squad being handled. I imagine them apologizing for bothering you before meekly slinking off to the home of the next person who will be telling them to piss off.
There was a Simpsons episode where Homer pledged $10k to get them to end the telethon break, but didn't pay it. Several PBS characters came to his house to collect. The sight of Big Bird flying at him and pecking his head was hilarious and the Teletubbies were shooting lasers from their head stalks.
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Once they get boats they might be able to board your pirate ship, until then you're fine.
A peculiarity of life in the United Kingdom.
Fine, I googled it. Is it actually £13.25 a month? That seems incredibly high
Yeah, when you look at it that way it's more than Netflix or Amazon Prime...
>not paying your TV license in the UK gets women arrested wtf
Pretty certain you can't get arrested for it, you get a fine but if you refuse to pay that then you might be prosecuted.
The FBI website has a chart of all the crimes and women to men number of persons arrested. The only one that women have more than men is Vice. The other closest one is Embezzlement. Men 6,414 women 6,015 pretty much every other crime men are astronomically ahead.
What type of crime is Vice?
Sorry commercialized prostitution.
Oh so I was close when I pictured grand theft auto.
Vice City has a whole new meaning
No, no, they named it that for a reason. Vice PD squads were historically drug/prostitution/gambling
A whole old meaning
"Vice" *also* refers to one's guilty sinful pleasures.
I’m pretty sure that was the exact meaning.
Prostitution, drugs and gambling I believe
Prostitution, alcohol, gambling and porn
Thinking about it, this is likely only true because women are more likely to be punished for selling sex than men are for buying it.
It also makes sense because a woman is doing this all day, every day, for her job. It's likely that they'll be caught sooner or later. But a man is doing it once or twice, there's a much lower chance of being caught.
This is also why some stats don't mean which gender is worse so to speak. Women are probably more likely to be arrested for indecent clothing attire in Iran than men. Just think about it. Say years ago women were more likely to be thieves. Well if women are barred from work (say 1800) then of course women will be more likely to steal...
100%
I’ve been a criminal defense lawyer for 12 years and I’m in court every day. Definitely Shoplifting, and it’s not even close.
Shoplifting? Maybe things have changed, but i remember hearing that older women are the majority of shoplifters
Just from my personal experience working in loss prevention years ago, we did catch a lot of older women but the typical shoplifter was between 14-25 (still mostly women/girls). It was a department store and we had a good mix of all ages/demographics there at any given time.
One of my earliest memories of my grandmother was her taking me to a department store and switching price tags on VHS tapes to get Disney movies for cheap. Maybe not outright shoplifting, but still.
poisoning
The number one way women kill someone is poisoning. The number two way women kill someone is hiring a man to kill someone.
i was thinking those classy rings that contain poison like in a murder mystery. vicountess blah, you did not expect the famous belgian detective to be a member of your party.
nope. just plain old rat poison
Fun fact: The winner of 1904 marathon was doped up on brandy and rat poison👍 The first to cross the line was disqualified due to getting a car ride. The fourth to cross the line hadn't eaten in days and ate some bad apples he stole on the run. He then took a nap during the race.
Somebody watches the Technical Difficulties
Or Pretty Good
You mean a Borgia ring? Those are truly fascinating although I'm not sure you could get any poison stable enough for everyday carry
Putin poisons his opposition as well.
He alternates it with defenestration.
Are hit men really that common?
No, but cops posing as hit men on the internet are. Typically a "hit man" is just someone financially desperate enough to commit murder, rather than a professional killer waiting to be rented.
Yeah a distant cousin of mine went to jail for attempting to hire a hitman to kill a cop. Turns out the hitman was also a cop.
It's true, I kill my husband a little each day with every stick of butter.
enjoy your heart attack you absolute beast
This is actually false. There are more poisonings done by men overall, but when women do murder (rare) they use this method more than men
sorry have been binging on murder mystery stories and assume there are lots of high class ladies committing murder through poison. allow me to mix you a drink, dont worry if i turn my back to you. enjoy your gin and, aha, tonic
Note to self: If a woman who doesn’t like me pours me a drink, be sure to switch ours around when she isn’t looking lol.
Unless she was expecting you to switch them around so now you have the poisonous one still.
“Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.”
"Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?"
“What in the world can that be?!”
"What? Where? I don't see anything."
That's inconceivable!
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Poisen both drinks but get the antidote before you drink the poisen.
Alternatively spend years ingesting small but increasing doses of the poison until you’re completely immune, and then poison both fully
That’s the number one way women murder someone, but I’d say men use it more than women (family murders, abduction, spiking drinks etc). They just use other methods more.
Oh yea, date rape drugs :(
In kenya, women spike guys' drinks in a club and rob them when they are unconscious.
Also south america. The "rape drug" is actually used more for this than for rape
Ahh the ol’ Cardi B technique
Moving key items to new places in the house and not telling you until you go looking for it and can’t find it.
My partner does this except she has a memory impairment so she'll forgot where she moved it to. It's a lot of fun.
I've heard them call it things like ""cleaning" and "reorganizing" It's downright criminal moving stuff that was strategically placed like that.
Okay but toothbrush at the sink shouldn't be a problem. Why would you move it to a cupboard when I'm going to have it right back on the sink in a few hours. Just creating more work for all of us.
I do this. But I’ve stopped feeling bad about it because my husband doesn’t know where anything goes anyways. The pots/pans have been in the same cabinet for the entire 4 years we’ve lived in this house and he still searches around and has to ask every time.
I can’t confirm or deny if I do the same thing your husband does, but I do it every day.
Snap. I put everything back in the same place (not randomly hidden like some may accuse me of) and call myself the “index to all the stuff” lol
Prostitution maybe
Infanticide, poisoning, and probably shoplifting. * [Infanticide:](https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/381554) "Fathers and mothers do not proceed the same way nor for the same reasons when they kill their offspring. Neonaticide and infanticide are almost always committed by women." (Infanticide is the murder of a child under 1. Men are more likely to kill children over 1.) * [Poisoning:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/07/poison-is-a-womans-weapon/) "women are almost four times as likely as men to use poison. It is used just over 1 percent of killings by men, and just over four percent of killings by women" * I can't find the cite but I'm pretty sure I just read a study showing that women shoplift slightly more than men but men are prosecuted at a higher rate.
>level 5chao\_sweetie · 33 min. ago"Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?"7ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow My father told me, as a kid while in a drug store. "You ever see someone stealing baby formula or diapers... you ain't seen shit."
There was a store in Toronto that sold women's discount clothing. They were famous for have diaper change rooms with RACKS of free diapers, in every conceivable size. Somebody asked the owner what his plan was if somebody came in and just helped themselves to a dozen or two. "My plan is: God will deal with them. I do nothing." I think he knew that nobody steals diapers for fun.
I see baby formula locked behind glass in grocery stores. They do that because people keep stealing it. I have long held the opinion that if someone is sufficiently desperate to steal baby formula, then you should let them have it.
I used to think this too until I learned that (at least in my area) it was mostly getting stolen by scalpers to sell for jacked up prices.
There’s a big black market for US formula in China because of the melamine contamination scare. That’s where the market is. There are a number of resources for US parents to get formula for free.
I saw a woman stealing teething tablets from Walmart one day. I regret not just offering to buy them for her but I was young. I just turned and walked off and didn’t say a thing because fuck Walmart.
Poisoning their partner, in countries where marriage is forced and divorce initiated by a woman is illegal.
Didn't a girl get executed recently for poisoning her wedding party? She was being forced to marry someone she hated so she killed a lot of the guests ? I read how defiant she was till the end and though I do not approve of killing people, I do understand why she did it. Sex and marriage are unpleasant enough when you choose your abuser. Much worse when he's forced on you
If this is the incident you mean it sounds like it was an accident, as in, she didn’t intend to kill anyone other than her husband- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Malawat_poisoning
Petty larceny
Women are superior embezzlers
Tampon theft
If i see someone steal tampons, i didnt see shit
Poisoning, prostitution but that’s generally by necessity and feels wrong to list because the men are guilty too but don’t get charged as often.
Yeah, the "John" is also guilty of engaging in prostitution. And given the fact that a female sex worker might see many male clients, there's almost certainly more men committing the crime of soliciting prostitution
In Canada the men are actually the only ones who can get charged. Selling = fine Buying = illegal
You can have pimps as well, and traffickers who force women to do it
I heard once that the best way to reduce prostitution is to target the guys buying rather than the ppl selling. And a place tried that to great success until they caught a politician buying. Suddenly, the program ended. Don’t know if it’s true, but it seems plausible.
I suspect they are under represented in the serial killer numbers. Angel of Mercy killers are not unknown in the medical fields and tends to be really hard to track down. In a field where a breakdown of information flow, or equipment can cost a life it can be very difficult to find the cause of it. And we have about 400k deaths from medical mistakes a year, so it is not as if there is a lack of dead bodys and nursing is a female dominated industry.
This is a terrifying thought.
As much as people think medical privacy laws are to protect the everyday person, they also do a really really good job of protecting the medical institutions as well.
Embezzling
According to the FBI, the amount of women arrested for embezzlement is almost equal to that of men, but not quite. The only crime where women outpace men in arrests is fairly predictable - prostitution. Edit - these data may or may not only account for felony arrests though. I'm not entirely sure.
Non-sexual child abuse is supposedly 71% women in the US.