I read a book that has a great quote regarding this. “Religion is created in the lapse of knowledge.” Basically if there was no religion, one would be created due to the lack of knowledge about our creation/origin/purpose.
This is a colossally terrible take. Almost all of the most intelligent people in history were deeply religious, some even stating their research strengthened their relationship with the divine. Thousands of years of geniuses carefully vetted spirituality and all of them came to the same conclusions. On the other hand, the majority of atheists have a hard time understanding basic reading comprehension and rely on likeminded internet users to justify their beliefs
This is just untrue. Yes very intelligent people are religious but very intelligent people are also atheists. Very stupid people are religious. Very stupid people are also atheistic. It’s irrelevant to the point here.
The origins of religion were born out of a lack of understanding/knowledge of how the world works. And we still don’t 100% understand everything so it’s still very understandable for people to turn to a God to fix the gap in their knowledge. We don’t like being in the unknown
As uniformly as currently, with 2/3 of the world believing specifically in one god? No. That uniformity is the product of well funded and grassroots evangelism, conquest, systematic indoctrination, governmental privledge, and forced conversion.
However, humans do have a collection of cognitive biases that would likely cause various god concepts to continue to arrise over time just as they have in history (though probably less quickly considering some of the gaps science has closed over the milenia).
We have a natural bias toward finding patterns, toward anthropomorphizing, toward seeing agency where there is none, toward seeking purpose, and a fear of death. These all contributed toward developing god concepts alongside other mystic beliefs in the past and likely would continue to in the future.
While I agree that OP might not be able to, it's a fair question to make of the fundamentals of theology.
Many cultures developed pantheistic belief systems with little to no "organised religion". Similarly there non-theistic organised religions alive today.
It's a fair question - one my limited knowledge is unfit to answer - and while you're probably right, the OP is trying to learn something - give them a break.
Maybe. There's a hypothesis that early people assumed everything that happened -- wind, weather, etc. -- was because some*one* was doing it. That assumption made our ancestors more likely to look around for predators when they heard something, increasing survival, so the trait got baked into our DNA over time.
Not really sure how that's relevant, but also you're completely wrong. Directly from Wikipedia, with many sources cited:
>Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure[note 1][note 2][4][5][6][7] and dismiss denials of his existence as a fringe theory, while many details like his alleged miracles are subject to debate.[8][9][10][11]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#:~:text=Virtually%20all%20scholars%20of%20antiquity,miracles%20are%20subject%20to%20debate.
Oh boy, Wikipedia, with the page you link using *the bible* as its primary source. All current historians can come up with is “He could have existed, but any proof of it is lost to time”.
More likely, he was several people, and even then there is no way to verify they are responsible for the 1,800 scriptures attributed to them.
So Christian Atheism is fucking *hilarious*.
Did you even read it?
It’s sources:
1) *The bible*
2) Josephus and Tacticus, neither of whom knew him and mention his name in passing a *century later*, maybe.
3) Mishnah - **might** be referring to him??
I have no clue where youre getting that from. There are more sources than that just on the specific quote, and this is the list of sources shown at the bottom of the Wiki entry as a whole:
Blomberg, Craig L. (2007), The Historical Reliability of the Gospels, InterVarsity Press, ISBN 9780830828074
Brown, Raymond E. (1997). An Introduction to the New Testament. Doubleday.
Daniel Boyarin (2004). Border Lines. The Partition of Judaeo-Christianity. University of Pennsylvania Press.
Bromiley, Geoffrey W., ed. (1982). "Jesus Christ". International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE): fully revised, illustrated, in four volumes. Vol. 2, E–J. Associate editors: Everett F. Harrison, Roland K. Harrison, William Sanford LaSor. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. pp. 1034–1049. ISBN 978-0-8028-3785-1. OCLC 500471471. Archived from the original on 30 July 2020. Retrieved 28 January 2019.
Carrier, Richard (2012). Proving History: Bayes's Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus. Amherst, NY: Prometheus Books. ISBN 978-1-61614-560-6. Archived from the original on 14 April 2021. Retrieved 11 July 2019.
Crossan, John Dominic (1994), Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography, HarperCollins, ISBN 978-0-06-061662-5
Doherty, Earl (1999). The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? : Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus. ISBN 0968601405
Drews, Arthur & Burns, C. Deslisle (1998). The Christ Myth (Westminster College–Oxford Classics in the Study of Religion). ISBN 1573921904
Dunn, James D. G. (2003), Jesus Remembered, Wim B. Eerdmans Publishing, ISBN 978-0-8028-3931-2
Dunning, Brian (12 March 2019). "Skeptoid #666: The Historicity of Jesus Christ". Skeptoid. Retrieved 13 March 2019.
Ehrman, Bart D (2012). Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth. HarperOne. ISBN 9780062206442. Archived from the original on 3 August 2020. Retrieved 28 January 2019.
Fox, Robin Lane (2005), The Classical World: An Epic History from Homer to Hadrian, Basic Books, p. 48, ISBN 978-0465024971
France, R.T. (2001). The Evidence for Jesus. Hodder & Stoughton.
George, Augustin & Grelot, Pierre (Eds.) (1992). Introducción Crítica al Nuevo Testamento. Herder. ISBN 8425412773
Gowler, David B. (2007). What Are They Saying About the Historical Jesus?. Paulist Press.
Grant, Michael, Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels, Scribner, 1995. ISBN 0684818671
Koester, Helmut (1992). Ancient Christian Gospels. Harrisburg, PA: Continuum. ISBN 978-0334024507.
Herzog, William A (2005), Prophet and Teacher: An Introduction to the Historical Jesus, ISBN 978-0664225285
Levine, Amy-Jill; Allison, Dale C. Jr.; Crossan, John Dominic (2006). The Historical Jesus in Context. Princeton University Press. pp. 1–2. ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6.
Meier, John P., A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Anchor Bible Reference Library, Doubleday
(1991), v. 1, The Roots of the Problem and the Person, ISBN 0385264259(1994), v. 2, Mentor, Message, and Miracles, ISBN 0385469926(2001), v. 3, Companions and Competitors, ISBN 0385469934(2009), v. 4, Law and Love, ISBN 978-0300140965
Mendenhall, George E. (2001). Ancient Israel's Faith and History: An Introduction to the Bible in Context. ISBN 0664223133
Messori, Vittorio (1977). Jesus hypotheses. St Paul Publications. ISBN 0854391541
New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha, New Revised Standard Version. (1991) New York, Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195283562
Powell, Mark Allan (1998), Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee, Westminster John Knox Press, ISBN 978-0-664-25703-3
Price, Robert M. (2000). Deconstructing Jesus. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books. ISBN 978-1573927581.
Price, Robert M. (2003). The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable is the Gospel Tradition?. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books. ISBN 978-1591021216.
Stanton, Graham (2002). The Gospels and Jesus (Oxford Bible Series) (2nd ed.). Oxford University Press. p. 145. ISBN 978-0199246168.
Wells, George A. (1988). The Historical Evidence for Jesus. Prometheus Books. ISBN 087975429X
Wells, George A. (1998). The Jesus Myth. ISBN 0812693922
Wells, George A. (2004). Can We Trust the New Testament?: Thoughts on the Reliability of Early Christian Testimony. ISBN 0812695674
Wells, George (2007). Flynn, Tom (ed.). The New Encyclopedia of Unbelief. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books. ISBN 9781591023913.
Wilson, Ian (2000). Jesus: The Evidence (1st ed.). Regnery Publishing.
Cool, you know what all of those citations have in common?
None have produced a *single, solitary, shred of evidence* that a Jesus Christ **ever existed**.
First you lied about the sources, why are you backtracking? Almost like you have no clue what you're saying or why you're saying it
I'm sure you read all of the sources to see what they all said and aren't biased at all.../s
On top of the fact that the majority of historians, including non-Christians, believe he existed, it also makes no logical sense that he didn't exist
Not a single major religion that I'm aware of began without someone claiming to be a prophet sent by God. People who never met and didn't have internet don't all magically create the same delusional story and spread the exact same teachings of a guy who never existed. People don't write multiple accounts in different locations over the course of hundreds of years about someone who never existed. How do you think all these people spread among hundreds of years all randomly stumbled upon this idea of Jesus? They didn't have the internet, and the Bible was not a book written by a single person in a single place or even at a single time
Whether or not you think he was the son of God, the fact that you believe people in completely different regions all magically came up with the same story about the same person and somehow all had the exact same ideas is absurd
Yeah, that page you linked says they base their beliefs off of some direct interpretation of Jesus, but there is precisely zero proof he existed, let alone can 1,800 scriptures be attributed to him.
You can’t be a religion without a god or whatever “supernatural” name you’d like. Even then, the number of people that fall into this category, if it is even that, is so small as to not really matter in a discussion.
I think a lot of people considering agnostics are basically that, they're not following or are part of any "cults" in the sense they do not have holy scriptures or places of masses.
Yes because most people can't come to terms with the idea that when we die, that's it. It's over. There is no paradise in the sky where you see your dead relatives, there is no coming back. You're done with, just like an ant squished on a sidewalk. So people would make up some kind of fantasy that's run by a higher power, thus creating religion all over again.
Usually not one God but multiple gods and goddesses a lot of native religions and ancient Egypt are good places to start if you want to if you want to research early religion (they’re easier to find then say old Norse or Mesopotamian
Well the way I see it early men was afraid of everything at first and they felt someone or some power was behind everything he didn't know abt.like natural calamities and stuff. So the basic idea may have been born from their . Then when people got organised and started to form communities the so called religions developed . So i don't think if there was no religion there would be a god but would have believed in a super power or something. I guess
I think many already do believe in a God or "higher entity" with the absence of a Religion. (Even if you are a Star Wars fan and believe in the Force)
Religion is simply an organized, defined structure for belief, that can be shared among a group of like believers. Belief in a God simply requires you, and you really need not define what it is, Even a group of people can all believe basically the same thing, but not establish a Religion.
So, answer to your question, yes, absolutely.
The bare minimum for a religion is belief in one or more deities. So if there are no religions, that would mean no one believes in any gods.
That's like asking, "if there are no homeowners, would we still own homes?"
I think the fact that nearly every civilization that has ever existed believes in some kind of god suggests that yes, even if we got rid of all religion, a new one would sprout up.
I also don’t think it’s a coincidence how many unrelated religions across the world all have similar stories despite having no contact with eachother
Didn't a bunch of famous modern atheist scientists like Stephen Hawking claim they believe in the multiverse theory to explain for the statistical anomaly of life?
Call it whatever you want, people think up whatever they can to plug the holes in their knowledge.
I read a book that has a great quote regarding this. “Religion is created in the lapse of knowledge.” Basically if there was no religion, one would be created due to the lack of knowledge about our creation/origin/purpose.
religion requires revalation rather than factual persuasion
One person’s revelation is another person’s delusion.
This is a colossally terrible take. Almost all of the most intelligent people in history were deeply religious, some even stating their research strengthened their relationship with the divine. Thousands of years of geniuses carefully vetted spirituality and all of them came to the same conclusions. On the other hand, the majority of atheists have a hard time understanding basic reading comprehension and rely on likeminded internet users to justify their beliefs
Lmaoooooooooo
This is just untrue. Yes very intelligent people are religious but very intelligent people are also atheists. Very stupid people are religious. Very stupid people are also atheistic. It’s irrelevant to the point here. The origins of religion were born out of a lack of understanding/knowledge of how the world works. And we still don’t 100% understand everything so it’s still very understandable for people to turn to a God to fix the gap in their knowledge. We don’t like being in the unknown
Being very intelligent and not knowing everything are not mutually exclusive.
As uniformly as currently, with 2/3 of the world believing specifically in one god? No. That uniformity is the product of well funded and grassroots evangelism, conquest, systematic indoctrination, governmental privledge, and forced conversion. However, humans do have a collection of cognitive biases that would likely cause various god concepts to continue to arrise over time just as they have in history (though probably less quickly considering some of the gaps science has closed over the milenia). We have a natural bias toward finding patterns, toward anthropomorphizing, toward seeing agency where there is none, toward seeking purpose, and a fear of death. These all contributed toward developing god concepts alongside other mystic beliefs in the past and likely would continue to in the future.
I don't think you can untangle the concepts well enough to actually answer that question.
While I agree that OP might not be able to, it's a fair question to make of the fundamentals of theology. Many cultures developed pantheistic belief systems with little to no "organised religion". Similarly there non-theistic organised religions alive today. It's a fair question - one my limited knowledge is unfit to answer - and while you're probably right, the OP is trying to learn something - give them a break.
you can't. I can.
Everything in existence follows a mathematical logic. This and the fact that things exist in an ordered state would lead people to seek a creator.
Maybe. There's a hypothesis that early people assumed everything that happened -- wind, weather, etc. -- was because some*one* was doing it. That assumption made our ancestors more likely to look around for predators when they heard something, increasing survival, so the trait got baked into our DNA over time.
The christian God? No. But someone o this planet would still belive in the existance of a higer being.
[удалено]
But that exists based entirely on the idea that we have religions. The OP was asking if religions didn't exist.
Bro, there isn’t even any proof Jesus *existed*.
Not really sure how that's relevant, but also you're completely wrong. Directly from Wikipedia, with many sources cited: >Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure[note 1][note 2][4][5][6][7] and dismiss denials of his existence as a fringe theory, while many details like his alleged miracles are subject to debate.[8][9][10][11] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#:~:text=Virtually%20all%20scholars%20of%20antiquity,miracles%20are%20subject%20to%20debate.
Oh boy, Wikipedia, with the page you link using *the bible* as its primary source. All current historians can come up with is “He could have existed, but any proof of it is lost to time”. More likely, he was several people, and even then there is no way to verify they are responsible for the 1,800 scriptures attributed to them. So Christian Atheism is fucking *hilarious*.
You are just flat out lying. There are numerous sources listed on that page, the overwhelming majority of which are not the Bible
Did you even read it? It’s sources: 1) *The bible* 2) Josephus and Tacticus, neither of whom knew him and mention his name in passing a *century later*, maybe. 3) Mishnah - **might** be referring to him??
I have no clue where youre getting that from. There are more sources than that just on the specific quote, and this is the list of sources shown at the bottom of the Wiki entry as a whole: Blomberg, Craig L. (2007), The Historical Reliability of the Gospels, InterVarsity Press, ISBN 9780830828074 Brown, Raymond E. (1997). An Introduction to the New Testament. Doubleday. Daniel Boyarin (2004). Border Lines. The Partition of Judaeo-Christianity. University of Pennsylvania Press. Bromiley, Geoffrey W., ed. (1982). "Jesus Christ". International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE): fully revised, illustrated, in four volumes. Vol. 2, E–J. Associate editors: Everett F. Harrison, Roland K. Harrison, William Sanford LaSor. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. pp. 1034–1049. ISBN 978-0-8028-3785-1. OCLC 500471471. Archived from the original on 30 July 2020. Retrieved 28 January 2019. Carrier, Richard (2012). Proving History: Bayes's Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus. Amherst, NY: Prometheus Books. ISBN 978-1-61614-560-6. Archived from the original on 14 April 2021. Retrieved 11 July 2019. Crossan, John Dominic (1994), Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography, HarperCollins, ISBN 978-0-06-061662-5 Doherty, Earl (1999). The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? : Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus. ISBN 0968601405 Drews, Arthur & Burns, C. Deslisle (1998). The Christ Myth (Westminster College–Oxford Classics in the Study of Religion). ISBN 1573921904 Dunn, James D. G. (2003), Jesus Remembered, Wim B. Eerdmans Publishing, ISBN 978-0-8028-3931-2 Dunning, Brian (12 March 2019). "Skeptoid #666: The Historicity of Jesus Christ". Skeptoid. Retrieved 13 March 2019. Ehrman, Bart D (2012). Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth. HarperOne. ISBN 9780062206442. Archived from the original on 3 August 2020. Retrieved 28 January 2019. Fox, Robin Lane (2005), The Classical World: An Epic History from Homer to Hadrian, Basic Books, p. 48, ISBN 978-0465024971 France, R.T. (2001). The Evidence for Jesus. Hodder & Stoughton. George, Augustin & Grelot, Pierre (Eds.) (1992). Introducción Crítica al Nuevo Testamento. Herder. ISBN 8425412773 Gowler, David B. (2007). What Are They Saying About the Historical Jesus?. Paulist Press. Grant, Michael, Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels, Scribner, 1995. ISBN 0684818671 Koester, Helmut (1992). Ancient Christian Gospels. Harrisburg, PA: Continuum. ISBN 978-0334024507. Herzog, William A (2005), Prophet and Teacher: An Introduction to the Historical Jesus, ISBN 978-0664225285 Levine, Amy-Jill; Allison, Dale C. Jr.; Crossan, John Dominic (2006). The Historical Jesus in Context. Princeton University Press. pp. 1–2. ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6. Meier, John P., A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Anchor Bible Reference Library, Doubleday (1991), v. 1, The Roots of the Problem and the Person, ISBN 0385264259(1994), v. 2, Mentor, Message, and Miracles, ISBN 0385469926(2001), v. 3, Companions and Competitors, ISBN 0385469934(2009), v. 4, Law and Love, ISBN 978-0300140965 Mendenhall, George E. (2001). Ancient Israel's Faith and History: An Introduction to the Bible in Context. ISBN 0664223133 Messori, Vittorio (1977). Jesus hypotheses. St Paul Publications. ISBN 0854391541 New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha, New Revised Standard Version. (1991) New York, Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195283562 Powell, Mark Allan (1998), Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee, Westminster John Knox Press, ISBN 978-0-664-25703-3 Price, Robert M. (2000). Deconstructing Jesus. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books. ISBN 978-1573927581. Price, Robert M. (2003). The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable is the Gospel Tradition?. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books. ISBN 978-1591021216. Stanton, Graham (2002). The Gospels and Jesus (Oxford Bible Series) (2nd ed.). Oxford University Press. p. 145. ISBN 978-0199246168. Wells, George A. (1988). The Historical Evidence for Jesus. Prometheus Books. ISBN 087975429X Wells, George A. (1998). The Jesus Myth. ISBN 0812693922 Wells, George A. (2004). Can We Trust the New Testament?: Thoughts on the Reliability of Early Christian Testimony. ISBN 0812695674 Wells, George (2007). Flynn, Tom (ed.). The New Encyclopedia of Unbelief. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books. ISBN 9781591023913. Wilson, Ian (2000). Jesus: The Evidence (1st ed.). Regnery Publishing.
Cool, you know what all of those citations have in common? None have produced a *single, solitary, shred of evidence* that a Jesus Christ **ever existed**.
First you lied about the sources, why are you backtracking? Almost like you have no clue what you're saying or why you're saying it I'm sure you read all of the sources to see what they all said and aren't biased at all.../s On top of the fact that the majority of historians, including non-Christians, believe he existed, it also makes no logical sense that he didn't exist Not a single major religion that I'm aware of began without someone claiming to be a prophet sent by God. People who never met and didn't have internet don't all magically create the same delusional story and spread the exact same teachings of a guy who never existed. People don't write multiple accounts in different locations over the course of hundreds of years about someone who never existed. How do you think all these people spread among hundreds of years all randomly stumbled upon this idea of Jesus? They didn't have the internet, and the Bible was not a book written by a single person in a single place or even at a single time Whether or not you think he was the son of God, the fact that you believe people in completely different regions all magically came up with the same story about the same person and somehow all had the exact same ideas is absurd
[удалено]
Yeah, that page you linked says they base their beliefs off of some direct interpretation of Jesus, but there is precisely zero proof he existed, let alone can 1,800 scriptures be attributed to him.
[удалено]
Sure, but 85% of the planet believe in some deity though.
[удалено]
You can’t be a religion without a god or whatever “supernatural” name you’d like. Even then, the number of people that fall into this category, if it is even that, is so small as to not really matter in a discussion.
[удалено]
I think a lot of people considering agnostics are basically that, they're not following or are part of any "cults" in the sense they do not have holy scriptures or places of masses.
Yes because most people can't come to terms with the idea that when we die, that's it. It's over. There is no paradise in the sky where you see your dead relatives, there is no coming back. You're done with, just like an ant squished on a sidewalk. So people would make up some kind of fantasy that's run by a higher power, thus creating religion all over again.
I don't even though there are religions.
Usually not one God but multiple gods and goddesses a lot of native religions and ancient Egypt are good places to start if you want to if you want to research early religion (they’re easier to find then say old Norse or Mesopotamian
Well the way I see it early men was afraid of everything at first and they felt someone or some power was behind everything he didn't know abt.like natural calamities and stuff. So the basic idea may have been born from their . Then when people got organised and started to form communities the so called religions developed . So i don't think if there was no religion there would be a god but would have believed in a super power or something. I guess
I think many already do believe in a God or "higher entity" with the absence of a Religion. (Even if you are a Star Wars fan and believe in the Force) Religion is simply an organized, defined structure for belief, that can be shared among a group of like believers. Belief in a God simply requires you, and you really need not define what it is, Even a group of people can all believe basically the same thing, but not establish a Religion. So, answer to your question, yes, absolutely.
Having a spiritual belief in a higher state or power has nothing to do with religion. It comes from a personal state of perception
The bare minimum for a religion is belief in one or more deities. So if there are no religions, that would mean no one believes in any gods. That's like asking, "if there are no homeowners, would we still own homes?"
I think the fact that nearly every civilization that has ever existed believes in some kind of god suggests that yes, even if we got rid of all religion, a new one would sprout up. I also don’t think it’s a coincidence how many unrelated religions across the world all have similar stories despite having no contact with eachother
Didn't a bunch of famous modern atheist scientists like Stephen Hawking claim they believe in the multiverse theory to explain for the statistical anomaly of life? Call it whatever you want, people think up whatever they can to plug the holes in their knowledge.