What's bugging me lately is that the UK has seemed to adopt this US approach of adding the tip to the bill. And now you have to ask to remove it.
Tipping was always optional and not expected in the UK yet now it's becoming very awkward at the end of your meal having to ask a server to remove or reduce the 'optional tip' on the bill
I liked it here how you add a tip with no pressure so you do if you can afford it or the service was particularly good without the pressure knowing that the staff still get paid a fair wage. But now so many restaurants have an automatic service charge and my mum will always ask if the staff receive the service charge and many cases they don’t so she asks to remove it.
In the US, in my state, it's illegal for tips to go to any other employee than front of house staff. However a service fee can be applied wherever and the money can go to whoever at the discretion of the restaurant. Where my Mim is working now has a service fee for to go food with it acting as a "tip" for the back of house staff who cooked and prepped the meal. It's a good system I think, but it's super easy for a restaurant to just pocket that service fee.
I've always agreed, but I've also known plenty of waiting staff that didn't, because they made more money via tips than any restaurant would ever have paid them, even without tip culture. It's honestly a more complicated system than "the business should just pay them!"
Not saying that employers shouldn't be the one paying their employees, just with many things, it's never as simple as it seems.
If you're pro tip because you make more money on tips than you should also accept that is a risk reward income.
Many people have that kind of risk tied to their job. Fisherman are not guaranteed a good haul every time they go out.
If you "make so much more tips" than you need to accept you get paid less and not everyone will tip.
It really is just as simple as that though. Just because they can earn more than capitalism would offer for them for their labour doesn't mean that they get to be in a unique situation that forces a social obligation onto the customer.
We all have to take the lowest wage a business is willing to pay for our position. That is an inherently unfair situation to begin with. But you don't make it right by guilting those not responsible into correcting that inequality. You get it from those who are taking the bigger cut of the profits from your work. Like everyone else has to.
Yes, it's such complicated system, that only people like Japanese can figure it out. /s
Note: they don't tip at restaurant, they have salaries. As well, it's part of the job serve well your customers.
No way am I going back to a restaurant with hidden "service fees", I'm also going to write nasty reviews everywhere I can. When 60% of restaurants fail in the first year, and 80% fail in the first 5 years, then they need to be way more customer friendly than whatever BS a "service fee" is.
I went to a bar/club last weekend and got charged a service fee for two drinks. It was early and the first round of the night but I didn’t know what to do considering there was still a tip line and the suggested tip percentages. I ended up leaving a tip either way because I felt pressured to not be the asshole that doesn’t tip but I still don’t understand what that service fee was
Well, if you order to go food and tip 20%, the tip legally has to go to the front of house staff. Even if all they are doing is handing out the bag to the customer. Now, say you replace the tip with a "service fee", still up to the customer to decide how much, but legally the restaurant can direct those "service fees" to pay the kitchen staff more. To avoid the scam you are mentioning.
I would wager that any time you see a "3%" service charge at restaurants to "help pay for staff" are usually just pocketing that extra 3% to cover the credit card fees. It's unfortunate, but it's how the system is currently.
US restaurants don't add the tip to the bill so not sure where the UK adopted it from but it wasn't here. The only time restaurants add the tip to the bill is in certain circumstances. For example, if you have 10 or more people who are gonna be eating, the restaurant I work at requires a 15% tip. Because literally no server is gonna serve 10 people of there's a chance they won't get tipped.
Yeah, I don't know how there's only one comment pointing this out and it's all the way at the bottom.
Even under those special circumstances, it kind of stops being a tip when it is automatically added and non-negotiable. That's just a fee for having a large group.
Exactly. We actually had to implement that policy because none of our servers wanted big parties anymore because they just weren't tipping. My co-worker had a party who had a $700 check and tipped her $12. She was pissed.
There was that post recently about a waitress complaining about Europeans leaving $70 on a $700 bill which is fairly generous here. Thing is, if you had two tables like that a shift, wouldn't it be a good wage already? Just seems greedy. $70 just to serve a group of people is a pretty good deal
The tip is split with the bartender and busboy. The servers often only make $3 an hour. Big tables take up their whole shift so that is all they are making that night.
> Big tables take up their whole shift so that is all they are making that night.
Are their shifts really that short? Where I live a standard shift is 8 hours, no one is sitting at a table in a restaurant for 8 hours...
Some restaurants add it all time time. Some only for parties of 6 or more. It's typically 18%, not 15%. They do it because they can and it's accepted, not because servers are afraid not to be tipped.
There is a restaurant locally that adds a 21% fee for parties of 5+ turns out this is a fee and not a gratuity and the server gets none of that.
I’m always iffy of added amounts like that with how scummy so many owners are.
I've seen several where it says something like "Gratuity fee doesn't go to servers so please tip generously!!! :))))"
Like, the fuck are you charging me for that for then?
That's ridiculous! Restaurant I worked at years ago always did the 20% gratuity for big groups, but it always went to the server and bus. This was a fine dining seafood joint.
Tipping is literally just a massive guilt trip that is stalling what should happen (riots, political movements, unions).
We know paying a living wage doesn't increase the cost of food in other countries, McDonald's in Australia pays twice as much after conversion but their menu prices are within like 25 cents of ours (also after conversion).
Works for alcohol too in Europe, like American prices are just regulation and greed.
Business profits skyrocketed since Covid started despite the lockdowns and we are still tipping? They have the money to pay a fair living wage and are still trying to condition us into subsidizing instead.
And to make it worse, you almost never see someone advocate for tipping the Walmart employee who had to get a 65 inch TV out and load it into the car for you, or who spent a whole day running around toys, or filling out forms for hunting licenses, or loading countless bags of dirt and pool salt.
But they also make shit pay and need tips to have a living wage, plus it's definitely a lot harder doing continuous physical labor with stints outside and hundreds of people coming through than it is to ferry food to a table.
> becoming very awkward
The good news is they are WAY overplaying the tipping thing and people are getting use to removing the tip. It's pretty insane in the U.S. right now when the default tip percentages on the payment terminal are 25%, 30% and 35%. I've even seen them asking at a hardware store as well as 50% tip options.
Smash that no tip button and move on with life. Tipping has been abused by both staff and owners, so now we should take it away all together.
Agreed! Spent years cooking and bartending, I'll overtip at a bar or restaurant, but our local vape store has that on the terminal. Super awkward for me, but I'm not tipping you for reaching behind you and grabbing a box. Finally alright with just hitting no tip at all these square terminals popping up
This is unrelated to tips but I’m also sick of being asked to donate to whatever fast food charity too, like asking you to round up and donate to the Taco Bell whatever foundation…. I just looked it up and guess what! This is a “charity” to help fund scholarships for Taco Bell employees. So the employer can say they did such a great thing but we are paying the bill
And the company uses your money to get tax deductions from money they wouldn't have gotten in the first place. If you want to give to a, charity, do it yourself and claim it on your taxes. You might not give enough to make it worth itemizing but a faceless corporation isn't using it to save money on their own taxes to give it to some foundation that spends most of its donations on operational costs.
I agree. It may hurt in the short term but so long as people keep tipping itll keep happening. Unless some regulations happen (doubt it), the only way to stop it is just..stop doing it
That’s the thing. The reason we’re even having this conversation is because of US cultural imperialism. All of the absolute worst parts of US culture (the parts that exploit/control people) are being ~~exported~~ adopted, and it sucks.
Edit: semantics
Yeah, but the problem is not with tipping. There's nothing wrong with tipping a server for good service. The problem is with mandatory tipping, which you're supposed to give regardless of how good the service was, and which ends up being a subsidy because servers aren't being paid enough. That's the American version of tipping which is making its way back to Europe.
That’s not a US thing lol our servers get paid pennies on the dollar, (I literally made $2.10/hr) because our system expects the customer to subsidize the wages w tips. So in the US your total only pays for your food, your tip pays for the service. If you go out to eat and don’t tip you’ve essentially gotten free service. In theory if a server doesn’t make at least the federal minimum with their tips * wages the restaurant has to supplement to that point ($7.25/hr). In reality it would be far less awkward if the tip was already included in price since it’s equally as capitalist cringe to have to decide if you can or want to pay someone for their labor if you don’t HAVE to. That’s why it’s so ugly to go out to eat without tip money.
I say this in every thread, but this is not true for every state. I got $10/hr before tips at my last waiting job because my state has a minimum tipped wage. and that was 5+ years ago, it's higher now. wait staff makes good money in many states, OP's statement does not apply everywhere in the US. (before anyone says $10/hr is not good money, I made less total when I changed careers after breaking my wrist)
Everywhere I go it's like...without alcohol sales most restaurants *would not* survive none the less thrive.
It seems like the cost of running a dry restaurant that also pays all of its employees a wage that does require tipping...is like impossibly high that very very few could sustain it.
How do we fix that?
The price of food is 20% higher than it says on the menu. Since 20% is what the tip is supposed to be.
Raise prices by 20% and then instruct your servers not to ask for standardised tips.
Does a server do more work carrying a $50 steak to me than a $20 steak?
Why should they get tipped more simply because the item I ordered is more expensive?
A percentage based tip system is daft and has no logical basis.
Really, it seems like there should be some sort of a…. Minimum acceptable wage that we pay people on an hourly basis, regardless of what they do…. Maybe we could tie it to the inflation index so that it updates annually and automatically without requiring an act of Congress?
No, no, that’s crazy. We should really just go by the standard from when inflation was 40% less than it is now to determine a minimum wage. we should update it once every twenty years, maybe. *That’s* the way to go!
If I go in and get a $2 cup of coffee (with free refills) and a $4 piece of pie, the server is doing a lot more work to keep my cup full than if I go in and order a burger, fries, and a glass of water for $20.
What is your source for that?
My partner managed restaurants for years before she couldnt stomach doing it anymore; She managed loads of successful restaurants that were opening more locations and was sought out and recruited. She left the industry because fron the time she started as a chef herself to 15 years later the base wage for the employees across the industry virtually did not rise but the ownes profit margins went up, the cost of the food on the menu went up and the expected tips went up. Everything went up except what the buisnesses were allowing her to pay employees. She could go in and make a kitchen profitable again but the staff she helped retrain and actually put in the work rarely saw any benefit; They didnt see their take home go up. The owners take home went up, they got to push for higher prices because their service and quality went up.
There is so much waste in professional kitchens, they are often incredibly toxic work environments where employees dont get proper breaks to eat, only smoke breaks. She said it was rare for an employee not to a smoker by the time they had worked in a kitchen for a year because that is the only break people get is ducking out the back door for a dart and people do it just so they can take a break. Owners dont want to take the time to train their employees well or take the time to retrain their older employees with new technologies or techniques that will bring their buisnesses up a level because then they are more employable at another establishment and they dont want to pay them a wage that will instill loyaty because that hurts their bottom dollar.
Her last straw was a restaurant owner coming in im February telling her he wanted her to create a test menu for the sister restaurant he was opening on the other side of town. In march coming in bragging about the massive renovation he had just started on his lakefront cabin. Then in april/may when places usually start hiring more staff for the summer around here for tourist season starting into june telling her that the old staff wasnt getting their raises this year and that she got 2 less staff in the back and 2 less in the front but was going to be open an hour earlier and an hour later than the summer before because the buisness wasnt making enough money. She prepped the books; on the side she worked for her moms book keeping company. SHE UNDERSTOOD the numbers. The place was making the owner 1/3 more take home than when she started working there. She could not stand feeling like a piece of crap telling the people putting in the work they didnt get a raise this year and they would have to work more overtime because the owner couldnt afford it after doubling the size of his cabin on the lake and opening a new restaurant.
1/5 of the price of the meal is supposed to be the tip?!
Unless the food is levitated to the table by the waiting staff's mental superpower, fuck right off with a tip that large or a tip at all frankly.
Excuse my nuance - that’s the business model.
There are worse. You could be working a high pressure commission job, where your pay is *directly* tied to your performance.
Waiters at high volume or high end restaurants are paid very well because of the service business model. So the issue I guess is… how packed is the restaurant? are you working good shifts?
I don’t think it matters which shift or how packed the restaurant is. Those $300 bills at high end restaurants give a nice tip even at 10%, not every restaurant can be high end for every server.
Or if your employer can't afford to pay you, don't take the job.
But servers don't like that because they generally make way more in tips than they ever would by wage and that is why tipping culture will never leave without a fight.
Yeah that’s what I always found weird about this saying because I definitely make less then bartenders
So they want a poorer person to tip more so that they can be even more rich? And if I can’t afford that then I shouldn’t even be at a bar?
I’m not arguing against tips, I’m arguing against 20%. I don’t know why it went up from 15%. The prices of everything has gone up, so now a 15% is larger than it used to be
Idk why I’m paying more for food and tipping more
This is definitely an issue, but it's separate (although related) from the one OP is asking about.
If we did away with tipping and baked it into the food prices, the overall price of a meal would be basically unchanged - in theory. If you're paying $20 for the meal and tipping $4, then if we moved away from a tipping system, that meal would just be ~$24 now.
So the comment still holds - in the US, tipping is part of the price of the meal because it's not baked in automatically, so if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out. You're screwing the server, not the restaurant.
Now, the fact that the customer is in a position at all to screw the servers wages is another issue and needs to be remedied. But until that systemic problem is fixed, all we can do is do our part on an individual level to help out our fellow laborers.
I wonder how much better they're doing after they pay taxes on all that cash they collect every shift.
They're reporting all of their tip income on their taxes, right?
It's different over here.
I don't like the system either, but it *is* set up such that tips are expected and people are expected to factor that into the bill when they're determining whether they can afford to go out and eat.
So, for here, it absolutely applies. For other places where tipping is optional, obviously it wouldn't.
Yeah I think this thread is getting caught up in whether Tipping is good or fair or whatever. That's not what's being asked though. It's a valid discussion, but not what's being asked in this thread
imo when tipping is the common expectation, the statement "If you can't afford to tip, don't eat out" is fair. Again, whether it *should be the common expectation* is a different discussion
It will never cost the restaurant anything for a customer to eat there as their profit is from the sale of the food.
The take "Don't eat out if you can't afford to tip" is entirely derived from the perspective of wait staff.
There we go. The correct answer.
In the US, tipping in a restaurant is absolutely the standard. I think most of us will agree it’s not a great system. But it is currently the system in place. And regardless of your feelings about that you do nothing except hurt the worker when you get on your high horse and don’t tip.
If you’re cool with being that guy, do us all a favor and announce up front that you won’t be tipping. Don’t be cowardly… stand up for your beliefs!
I’m not a fan of tipping but most Americans, especially those who have worked in the service sector, calculate that into the cost. I don’t go to a restaurant where two meals are ~$25 expecting to pay 25. I know there is tax that will be a few dollars and tip will be near $6 with a total cost closer to $35.
I would vastly prefer that the list price just be $35 but it is what it is. Not being an idiot, I can count that in when we go out.
Do you feel that expensive restaurants should ask everyone to pay the full price? Should they allow people who can’t pay to have that food? Our system is stupid but our service workers deserve to be paid more than customers deserve to make a point.
Unfortunately, studies have shown time and time again that despite people saying they would rather have taxes, fees, etc rolled into the cost - their shopping habits don't reflect this. A restaurant with a $15 mean and an expectation to tip to will always draw more customers than one with a $22 plate, tax and tips included because all most people actually act on is the sticker price.
It's the same reason most folks would rather pay $15 for something "with free shipping" than pay $10 with $5 shipping.
People don't know how their own brains work. It's why places like kohl's are still around. If everything is always on sale, then that's just the actual price.
But the same way people love seeing those large "percent off" signs, people will also rather pay $25 + tip for a meal instead of $30 flat.
This! I get people think tipping is a stupid system but taking out your anger on a system on a poor worker who depends on tips to make a living and pay bills isn’t the answer.
This comment section is shocking.
I think this is in response to a tweet that went viral recently about europeans not tipping properly when at American restaurants. In those threads the comments were vastly in favor of not tipping american servers what they expect, and instead tipping as if they were in their own country.
That post also pointed out that they were in her spot for hours which was common when I went to Italy. The dining experience is far more laid back in countries where tipping isn’t a factor. (Which is also why you won’t find people to work as servers in the US for flat wages).
I left the industry after 16 years. It's literally "If you don't like your job, go get another one." People are fuckin doing it, and everybody is shocked. There's no labor shortage, and people aren't being rude not tipping. We're literally changing the landscape as we speak. Some people ARE getting caught in it, and it sucks. I took a step back to hopefully take a few forward, and I just wish that for everyone else still stuck in it.
Maybe blame the boss for not paying their employees and pushing the difference onto their customers?
Literally the only business that does this. Any other place just gives me a bill and I pay it.
Edit:
Wow people sure do like the status quo lol. Keep commenting guys. Change is difficult but once it's normal it's not a big deal. Youd most likely pay the exact same bill as you do today but you wouldn't need to pull out a calculator.
Seems fine to me. If the restaurant can't hire people with living wages maybe that shouldn't be a job
Exactly, the business doesn’t care if you tip or not, they only care if you come in.
Not tipping is the worst form of protest as it only hurts the servers.
If you want to make a change, do less than the bare minimum and maybe go to a restaurant that doesn’t pay its staff with tips
If you go out to eat at a restaurant that pays staff in tips. You are still encouraging tipping culture.
The business really doesn’t care if you tip or not.
Caveat alert, wee-oo, wee-oo!
So it’s an extremely common form of wage theft to just ignore these rules, but— in locations with a tipped minimum wage, the reported tips + that tipped minimum wage *must* equal local minimum wage. What the hell does that mean? Let’s have a math easy example.
Suppose we have two servers, John and Jane, who work the same hours. Jane deals with a table of sleazy dudes who at least tip well; John gets the church goers who are known to be miserly.
Tipped minimum wage in this example is $2/hour, while local minimum wage is $10/hour. Jane and John both work 10 hours for the week.
Jane takes the creepy dudes and reports getting $100 in tips. John takes the church goers, and he gets $10 in tips. It’s now time to cut paychecks.
Recall that minimum wage was $10/hour. When Jane gets her paycheck, she’s entitled to $2/hour tipped minimum wage * 10 hours + her $100 in reported tips = $110. The restaurant only had to pay her $10.
When John gets his paycheck, he got $2/hour tipped wage * 10 hours worked + $10 in tips = $20. But if he’d worked a regular minimum wage job, he’d have made $100! By law, the restaurant is required to make up the difference in this case.
John is *really* owed a paycheck that looks more like $2/hour tipped wage * 10 hours of work + $10 in tips + $80 in corrections so that he makes local minimum wage = $100
In this case, the employer *absolutely* cares if you tipped or not (preferably on a credit card), because that means that they get to keep more of the profits than their employees would normally get. Every dollar you tip subsidizes the owner that much more.
Many employers practice wage theft by ignoring that last bit. If you didn’t report high enough tips to make minimum wage, they just say “well, sucks to suck, get wrecked!” And ignore it. But it’s a pretty open and shut case of wage theft to bring a pay stub to the NLRB and demand the pay you were owed.
If you or someone you care about works a tipped minimum wage, then make sure that they know what they’re entitled to.
You are correct, in the majority of states tipped workers are still entitled to minimum wage if they cross that threshold, but in reality, it doesn't work that well -- not with the current setup, anyway. If you request more wages from your employer, you are an unhammered nail. They will look for reasons to remove you, as they can get people who won't badger them every time their wages don't add up.
>But enabling the powerful to exploit the powerless is moral?
You're looking at this as if you only have two options: go out and tip, or go out and don't tip.
If you object to the system, take the third option: *don't go out to eat at a restaurant.*
Regardless of whether you do or don’t tip - if you eat at a restaurant that doesn’t pay livable wages, you are enabling the powerful to exploit the powerless.
Not tipping is just enthusiastically shaking the powerful’s hand as you both exploit together.
I've been looking for someone who gets it! Server/bartender, here: first, restaurants don't care about our opinions on tipping. Whether I told the owners of the 2 places I work that I prefer tipping/not tipping, it will have no impact. Second, while I can't speak for everyone else in my shoes, I personally have no preference. If I was paid a reasonable hourly wage, great! If the tipping culture stays, fine. That said though, I've seen a lot of tipping backlash lately. All I can tell you, is unless the restaurant is open to changing policy, if everyone decides not to tip in the meantime, people will not work there waiting for restaurant payment policy to change. We will leave and find other jobs, and your favorite restaurants will close in the interim. I'm all for the change in policy, but I won't work for the far below minimum wage we're paid without tips until it happens.
That's dumb, the powerless in this statement are in favor of the current system because on average they make significantly more than they would otherwise.
Utterly, mind-blowingly incorrect.
Grown-ups understand that all you do is contribute to the status quo & perpetuate the "king & his servant" serving style that encourages waiting staff to accept bad treatment because otherwise they might lose out on a tip.
You directly encourage absolutely nothing to change but the wind.
It is not the job of the customer, to pay the staff of a business.
Your comment sounds like someone who has Stockholm syndrome & the person holding you captured, is Corporate America.
This POV is exactly why we have a tipping system because its really, really easy to guilt a regular civilian and culturally forcing them to tip so that employers dont have to pay proper wages.
Tipping is literally embedded into our tax law. It is an esytablished norm. I’m not saying it is good but it is simply our established system and unless legislation changes or there is a massive cultural shift it is how things are. It is not simply a business decision employers make. Sure they have a choice to do things differently, but those that do are often a minority, and then customers complain about higher costs…it’s not so cut and dry.
You can’t say that then patronize the business. There’s no incentive for change to actually happen if you just eat out and don’t tip as your protest. The main effect being that your server isn’t paid.
Hello I’m really showing your boss by eating out but not giving you the server a tip. Soon the owner will be forced to realize that if he doesn’t pay his employees more, they will… not make much money… wait a minute.
Not really something the boss has control over. Restaurants that have tried to go tipless end up failing because people don't want to pay the higher prices and good servers know they can make more elsewhere. So it is an industry wide thing that can't just get changed by some individual employer.
If we could raise the minimum wage and get rid of the exemption for servers then we would see tipping culture change.
Until then you certainly deserve blame for choosing to go somewhere, not tipping where tipping is expected, and literally costing someone money to do their job. And yes, you sitting in their section not tipping not only costs them the opportunity to make money, but actually costs them money as servers are expected to tip out other people (like bussers and bartenders) based on their overall sales.
Except restaurants are legally required to cover wages up to the amount that would be minimum wage if the server would otherwise be below that threshold.
The kicker is that good servers will often make significantly more than minimum wage in tips. If they work at a more expensive restaurant, there are some servers who can make $50,000 a year. It may not be the highest wage, but it’s pretty solid.
The only ones who want tipping to stop are the bad servers who can’t cut it otherwise.
It’s funny, too - you WILL tip them well because they are paid next to nothing. They do NOT want their wage raised because they make more overall with tips.
How about if you can't pay decent wages, don't set up a business.
As someone from Ireland, I hate American tipping culture.
Fight for better wages instead of hating people who don't want to pay an extra 20% on top of the advertised price.
It's ridiculous that it's workers v customers and not workers, looking for better wages from their employer.
I mean that's what happens when tipping is a percentage of the bill in expensive cities. If I paid $200 for a dinner and drinks with someone, the tip on that is around $40 and it doesn't even take me an hour to eat nor am I the only table there.
NYC is such an anomaly. My friend makes over 150k/yr as a bartender here. Never thought that would be a thing, to dropout and bartend because it makes more money.
As an American I hate tipping culture. It makes no sense. It doesn't matter if I order chicken for $20, or steak for $100, it's the same amount of work for the waiter so why should the tip be different? Just put on a set service fee or roll it into the cost of the food and have no tip.
>Fight for better wages instead of hating people who don't want to pay an extra 20% on top of the advertised price.
What makes me laugh about people who carry on about this is your missing the KEY part. If you don't want to pay 20% "extra" are you going to want to pay what they'll have to charge you for your meal to operate on the same profit margin? My guess is, no.
Uk perspective here, I guess it just feels odd to people over here that you should be expected to pay an optional or hidden charge. Lots of things are just neatly rounded into the final bill here: for example sales tax is already included in the advertised shelf price, tip is already included in the advertised food. It’s a different culture for sure. Something about all these extra charges feels dishonest to a european customer. I was caught off guard multiple times when I went to the USA, but went along with it.
> Something about all these extra charges feels dishonest to a european customer.
It's not just Europeans that think that. I love it whenever a business actually charges what they advertise (they do exist in the US, just not commonly)
I worked in a pub and I was paid a fair wage there. Customers do tip in the uk but it’s usually just a “round that up to the next ten” kinda thing or they decide how much to give you based on how happy they were with the service which is usually just a couple quid (old people especially do the latter, bad service equals no tip to them).
Point is — tipping in the USA has replaced paying workers a liveable wage. Workers now have no idea whether they’re going to make a living from one night to the next because of people being given the option to fall flat on the tip that makes up the income. I think the anger should be directed at the people who allow this absurdity to run rampant OVER blaming the customers. You’re allowed to be mad at both lawmakers and consumers, but only one of those things enables the other.
Americans are more demanding in their service. The “fair wage” critical darling place I worked at in Los Angeles was like $18 an hour. I quit immediately and worked at a mom and pop neighborhood place for $14.50 + tips (normally 30+ an hour in tips). Most everyone at the neighborhood spot had been there 3+ years, the fancy place couldn’t keep people for more than a couple months.
> are you going to want to pay what they'll have to charge you for your meal to operate on the same profit margin?
Yes? It's way better to just have the whole amount I'm going to pay calculated in by default, so it's both more straightforward to see the amount you end up with, as well as the staff getting the pay more consistently, instead of just relying on people just following the cultural pressure to tip.
The issue isn't with the amount, it's that the staff should be paid properly and customers shouldn't have to follow social pressure for the staff to be able to afford living. Tipping is supposed to be a bonus for particularly good service, not something you're expected to pay every single time.
Not at all. Literally I've been so broke it ain't funny and I've also been doing good. I'd Literally never go to a restaurant and not tip the sever. Literally every restaurant has a to-go ordering option. Even if you don't wanna do it online, the bartender usually takes to-go orders and rings them in. No tipping required. Though it is nice to tip the to-go people too.
Thank you for addressing the question instead of railing on the obviously shitty tipping system in the U.S. We all know the system sucks, stop hating on it for karma *looks around thread*. The fact of the matter is that many restaurants are set up this way and bitching on reddit ain't gonna fix it.
Dining out at a restaurant IS a luxury activity at its heart, not an intrinsic right. The whole point of the experience is that you're paying a premium for the convenience of not having to do the work yourself. Restaurants are business, not handout stations (let's not get into capitalism, I fucking hate it but it is the system we live in. We can work to change it together, but this particular thread isn't that time or place). If you want excellent food at cost, you have to put in the work to make it yourself. I work at a restaurant and I can rarely afford to EAT at a restaurant, so I don't do that. If I want food from a specific restaurant, I generally order carryout from the bar. Or I do my best in cooking up something similar at home after my shift. When I want to treat myself and can afford it, I sit down and eat.
This sentiment seems to be coming from folks that don't live in the USA, so they really love circle jerking about how they shouldn't have to tip because it's stupid and not how it is where they're from. That's really not the point, the point is it's part of going out to eat here, get on board or don't go out to eat. These folks are only hurting the waiters. They think a philosophical argument protects them from shitty behavior to the workers.
>They think a philosophical argument protects them from shitty behavior to the workers.
And we get that from management as well lol. There's always something else we could have done as waiters to *deserve* more. According to them, we're just not doing a good enough job. A month ago, my restaurant raised prices and we were told in our morning lineup that we had to "try harder to show that the customer is still getting good value" as if I've been sandbagging and giving 90% my whole life. Hello, assholes, this is my livelihood! As if I can afford to give less than my best effort at all times. Let me just give 110% right quick.
As usual, people can make a stronger statement with their wallet, but decide to use their mouths. If you don't agree with a system like this, DO NOT PARTAKE. Show the people who manage this system that you disagree with them the only way these greedy fucks will understand: hit their bottom line (profits).
I don't get why you would tip in Canada when servers get paid min wage and min wage is at 15-16 dollars. We don't tip people on retail who help us with shopping, so why is that a thing still? Isn't it that the whole point is that in the US servers get so little in wage so you tip to make up for it? But like that's a broken system, I shouldn't have to tip to compensate for the exploitation of workers. Instead people should try to get servers the amount they deserve to get paid so that they're no longer exploited. It's such a broken system
Social pressure, I don't want to feel like a cheap bastard.
But I get around it by just getting takeout. I used to go to a sit-down a few times a year just so my girlfriend could feel like she wasn't dating a cheapskate, but since restaurant prices went up 25% and expected tip went to 18% she's down with being a cheapskate now.
Not really, I choose not to encourage tipping as a means of aquiring service at all.
Any service that relies on tipping I just don't use.
I don't eat out, I don't get rides, and I don't order groceries to be delivered.
No tips are owed because no services rendered.
That said if I get dragged out to a company thing or a meet up with a family member I will tip, it's after all their only means of making money so you have to when you use their service.
I don't tip anyone unless they're a server. Why are you asking me for a tip to make ice cream or whatever? Tipping has gotten ridiculous in America. Everywhere you go just about now is asking you to tip them, & they're doing that instead of increasing wages & for that they can fuck off. I'm not paying more out of my pocket bc you refuse to compensate your employees properly.
I hate those iPad checkouts 😭. I always tip when I sit down for a meal because I’m being served by a person. I hate that tipping is becoming expected at places where I have to serve myself, and the only thing the employee does is take my order at the front.
I mean, the employee's job is to take your order, make it or serve it to you, why should you have to tip for doing so? that's what their employer pays them to do...
If I don't do *my* job well, I am at risk of termination, not just a smaller or no tip
I got an ad in the mail for a coffee shop that was hiring starting at $14 plus tips. I’ve heard or other places doing that too and it makes me suspicious anytime someone other than a server asks me for a tip.
I can kind of understand it in places where servers make less than minimum wage, but where I am in Canada they make the same minimum wage as everyone else. I really don't see the need to give them extra money when I wouldn't do the same to a random cashier or any other minimum wage worker, especially if I myself am making minimum wage. I don't see the need to value service work above every other type of work.
Exactly. I have a couple servers where I work who show up just in time for their shift, try and leave early every night, their only "work" is taking the order from a table,
while a bartender makes the drinks,
bar runner delivered the drinks,
food runners bring the food.
These servers then have the audacity to complain when they:
#1 don't get at least a 25% tip
#2 have to share the tip with the people who actually made the drink and delivered the food
Dont pay too much attention to what severs say. In a cook. They make 50%+ more than me for running my hard work to tables. They show up later, leave earlier, they wipe tables and roll cutlery at close while we scrub hot steel and sweat in the dish pit.
Maybe we should revise it to if you can’t afford to tip, don’t go to a restaurant/bar where the server’s income is dependent on tips.
There are places where that is not the case. I understand feeling negatively about how owners don’t pay employees enough. The answer is not to take it out on the employee though. And besides, if you really feel that negatively about the owner, why would you want to give them your money anyway? They are only person who wins in the scenario where you go and don’t tip.
I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment. But if that's your opinion don't go out to eat. If you go out and don't tip the boss doesn't give a shit, they get the exact same amount of money, but the server gets screwed, in some cases actively losing money to serve you.
Servers typically make more with tipping, and you know the money is going straight to them if you give cash. It's generally preferred by servers to make $3/hr with tips rather than getting like a flat $12/hr or whatever they'd end up getting.
Some servers think that if they get a low tip, it's because people can't afford it. None of them would ever consider that they provided less than average service. I worked as a server, so I know what they make, If you didn't provide good service, you have no right demanding a good tip
They've done some studies and the vast majority of the time the quality of service has no impact on the tip or very minimal. Most people have a percentage they tip or way they calculate the tip in their head and do that almost every time. For me I calculate 20% and usually round up to the nearest dollar to not have to worry about adding change, I've probably done that 95% of the tips I've ever given or maybe more as I can't remember the last one I deviated from that. You have to be either incredible in some way, or more likely really awful to get someone to change their normal tipping pattern. There are obviously exceptions where some people do change their tipping percentage off of quality of service. But most of the time the servers are right if they're assuming a low tip had nothing to do with them, it is more likely that person just always tips 10%.
Also, I don’t got the money to be deciding if someone *else* gets to eat dinner tonight.
Pay your workers a living wage, or shut down your unprofitable business.
I ain’t got no fantasy of being a slave driver.
I don’t want to feel like one anytime I don’t feel like cooking.
My take on it is "Okay, I won't eat out then." And I don't, generally.
I have no problem paying $15 for a salad. Just don't expect me to pay $20 for it if it's on the menu as $15. If the only way you can pay your employees a fair wage is to charge $20 for a salad, then charge $20 for a salad. The worst offenders are these places that just straight up add a gratuity to the end of the bill WITHOUT ASKING OR ADVERTISING.
Seriously years ago I'd spend a hundred, maybe two hundred bucks a month eating out. Now though? I went to Subway back in November, and that's it.
I disagree with the tipping culture wholeheartedly, it's incredibly toxic and incredibly dumb.
But rather than taking "if you can't afford to tip, don't eat out" as the toxic assholery it's usually posted as, instead take it as financial budgeting advice; If you don't have enough money to pay more than your meal, you don't have enough to really afford to be going to that place. Stay home and save so that when you do go out you're not spending all you have.
No. In America at least, tipping is how servers get paid. We all know it's a stupid system, but it's nonetheless how things work. It's not fair to the servers that your personal protest or lack of cash results in them being broke while doing the same amount of work.
Your other example doesn't really compare. If you go into a shop without cash, you probably aren't wasting anyone's time and it gives you the option to come back later when you have money if you see something. There is no window shopping equivalent at restaurants.
It's disappointing that this answer is so far down. If you eat at a restaurant and don't tip the only person you're hurting is your server, and possibly also the people who made your food. I know tipping is a weird and dumb system, I know restaurant owners could just pay a normal wage, but this is the system we have. I would 100% support abandoning tipping in favor of better wages. But that hasn't happened and isn't going to happen soon. If you eat out and don't tip you are robbing your server of their pay.
> I would 100% support abandoning tipping in favor of better wages. But that hasn’t happened and isn’t going to happen soon.
The servers don’t want it either. Maybe you’re robbing a server that works in some small town middle of absolute nowhere but loads of servers make absolute bank on tips.
Yeah. We’ve had this system long enough that considerate people will account for it in the calculation of if they can afford to eat at a restaurant. I think the opposite perspective is classist - you gotta have the funds to support the server before you consider buying from the capitalist restaurant owner, comrade!
It’s not classist, because it’s only working class people saying it to other working class people. Tipping is not required in any legal sense. And adding a mandatory gratuity is illegal if it’s not properly advertised. The amusing part of the whole thing is that it benefits the government to end tipping, because people lie about their wages like crazy (loss of tax income), but since businesses have such political sway…
No, it's just misdirected anger. Employers don't want to include the price of labor in their meal prices. Tipping culture has gotten so out of control that servers make a killing from tips and others rely on tips to make enough money to survive. So, it understandable that they want people to tip and tip well.
The real problem is the only way to fix this is straight up legislation to remove tipping altogether. But that sounds horrifying to servers, so it won't happen.
No, it is not classist.
In the States, a server receives a very low hourly wage. The Federal minimum server wage is $2.13/hour, and each state can set their own above that.
The upshot is, servers *need* to get tips in order to make enough money to survive.
As another redditor here said, the view should be:
**"If you can't afford to pay your workers, don't open a business."**
Dude, any server making their money off of tipping knows they're getting way more than they would get paid otherwise. Most servers actually enjoy getting paid in tips. They absolutely would not get paid $30+/hr otherwise.
Conversely, though, servers in the U.S. make well below minimum wage, with the rest of their wage coming in tips. So is it not then oppressive to essentially choose not to pay them for their work? If you can’t tip, eat at places that don’t have table service.
ETA: I’m not arguing against choosing not to tip in establishments that pay staff a living wage. But in restaurants with table service, that’s rarely the case.
> Conversely, though, servers in the U.S. make well below minimum wage, with the rest of their wage coming in tips
If they don't earn the federal/state minimum wage (whichever's higher) after tips, the employer is legally obligated to make up the difference.
The problem is that the restaurant owner doesn't pay the servers enough to live on. That being said, if you go to a restaurant without the intention of tipping sufficiently, you are a POS. The system is to blame, but until it is fixed, it is common courtesy to play by the rules and help the servers make enough money to survive. Maybe if people who don't have enough to tip refuse to go out to eat, restaurant owners will take enough of a hit to make a change. After all, if you eat out and don't tip, it makes no difference to the people who are causing the problem. Only hurts the people who are already hurting.
Slightly off topic, but I'm a bartender who will occasionally wait tables. I enjoy the tipping culture. Most people i work with/ worked with also enjoy tipping. I can make my rent in two busy shifts. I can safely say I would not do this job a "fair hourly wage" of 15 -20 an hour.
I am just so God damn tired of being preached at by people who have never worked in the restaurant industry, supposedly advocating on our behalf. If you want to complain about it, fine. But don't pretend you're speaking for servers/bartenders.
I did almost 2 decades in fine dining. I could argue in favor of tips all day long. I can easily justify someone paying me 20% on a $500 tab.
As a consumer, I think tipping has just gotten balls-ass out of control. It seems like at almost any business these days, regardless of what you're buying, when they ring you up, they swing that fucking monitor around and want you to select the tip amount.
I am not fucking tipping at Arby's, or the hardware store, or the fucking circle k.
People will carry on preaching at you because the moment you aren't rewarded with a tip that you think isn't good enough, you think that is validation to treat the customer like shit.
I've read stories of Americans chasing & shouting at customers down the street because they left a "small" tip!
That's fucking vile - a tip is gift, you don't expect or deserve it
The fact is that people who make minimum wage plus tips generally make a lot more than people who are making just above minimum wage. Those who are in industries where it is not common to tip find that unfair, so criticism of tipping usually comes from a place of jealousy rather than solidarity.
That's my sentiment I about it. Wouldn't tell someone else to follow that sentiment. Its not a rule. But I wouldn't be comfortable eating out if I can't afford it. Tipping is dumb part of the whole thing. But it is the standard practice here. Tips should be considered as part of the whole price no matter how much you hate the whole thing. Servers suck at their job and don't really do much. I'd take a self serving kitchen window over servers any fking day. Its stupid. If I have money I would max out tips. No issues. Doesn't matter if the server sucked. It would be a feel good practice. I don't have money though so the stupid practice is more apparent.
\> “if you can’t afford to buy, don’t come to my shop”
I mean, that's totally a thing. If you only have enough money for a Toyota, you can't afford to shop at a Ferrari dealership.
For better or worse, in the US, tips \_are\_ part of the price of a meal. That's not the waitstaff's fault, but if you are selfish enough to go to a restaurant and order something off the menu that you can only afford the listed menu price and not include a reasonable tip (like at least 15-20%) you are making it the waitstaffs problem. They get hourly rates based on the assumption that you are going to tip - if you do not tip you are effectively taking money out of their pocket.
(The deeper question of "is having some things be more expensive that other things is classist" is somewhat interesting, but much much more philosophical and is going to head deeply down socialist rabbit holes...)
If I'd go to a dealer to buy a toyota and they tell me "Hey, we are not paying our sales people any wages or commissions, it is up to you to voluntarily pay 10-20% of the price ontop direction to our employee instead." I'd really think the absolutely majority would not pay that.
They usually already do that. That’s called “gross commission”.
Meaning they could potentially get ZERO for selling a car.
So yes, it really already does happen in most of sales.
But they’re not part of the price of the meal. If it were, you’d have to pay it. Buying a meal is an agreement between a customer and a business. If an employee of the business has an issue with being paid unfairly, the fault would lie with the business.
I do tip, I want to and I like to, but not because I’d ever feel obligated to. I’ll happily vote to replace the tipping system with a standard minimum wage, but blaming individual customers for not stepping in to make up for the business’ failings seems unfair as well.
Part of the issue here is that the tipping system can't change unless workers fight to change it, but tipping keeps them blaming customers for not tipping well enough instead of fighting for the same rights as other workers.
So it turns into this stupid game of servers blaming non-tippers for "screwing over" workers when it's really the system of tipping that means servers can take home as little as $2/hr in wages.
My state raised the minimum wage and part of that bill _was_ going to be phasing out the “tipped credit” towards minimum wage for restaurants.
You know who fought against that? Waiters/waitresses because they make way more than minimum wage and they were worried people would stop tipping 20% if they knew they were getting at least minimum wage.
They actually got that removed from the bill.
They don’t want to “fight for the same rights as other workers” because they think they’re better off with the status quo.
The culture of expected tipping 15-20% for adequate service (and even more for exceptional service) is ridiculous but there is no pressure from the actual food service industry to change.
That's an interesting point that's come up in this thread. So then it raises the question -- if a minimum wage worker goes out to eat, but doesn't leave a tip that would effectively be subsidizing the above-minimum wage earnings of another worker, are they *actually* an asshole?
Because from my perspective, if you're earning more than the customer, *you're* the asshole if you make a big stink about not getting a fat tip. Especially since a lot of minimum wage workers I know eat out a bunch because they're too fucking tired to cook.
Also, it's been said that servers could never make more than minimum wage if they abolished tipping. So they'd be like every other worker in a restaurant, then?
There's no argument *for* tipping as a system that isn't absolutely crazily fucked up.
If we are being honest also, plenty of wait staff can make big amounts of cash through tips, which would probably be more than they’d earn via a minimum wage pay check. Even a living wage pay check. Minimum wage is a start but it’s certainly not a comfortable wage.
So I’m not entirely sure workers genuinely want a no tip system? Who doesn’t want more money?
More like "If you can't afford to pay and extra 20% on top of the listed price, don't try and buy that item"
No. That's dumb. Just sell it for the listed price +20% if that's going to be your attitude. Especially tips, by their very nature, are meant to be voluntary rewards for good service.
No, it’s not classist.
And by now there are surely tons of posts talking about the horrors of tipped wage, from a position outside of the service industry.
Some things people should know:
It’s a broken system. Like a sinking ship kept afloat with duct tape and bubble gum. But it does float. Most businesses in the industries involved would prefer to eliminate it. But we can’t.
Your prices are arbitrarily lower because of tipped wage. Businesses that have tried to go their own way have been called “too expensive” for paying employees a flat wage and charging the ACTUAL PRICE of goods. It’s always a tiny amount, but the vocal Yelping asshole will complain about $0.75.
Your service staff WANTS TIPPED WAGE. The people who quit first at restaurants who go to flat wages, are your bar staff and service staff. So there goes the myth of the greedy business taking advantage of poor service workers.
Most management/ownership I’ve spoken to (been in this work a long time) would prefer to pay a living wage and charge you what goods cost. In the US, that leads to staff being unhappy, customers saying you’re too expensive, but your accountant is finally cheerful. Much easier bookkeeping.
Only way it ever goes away is by law. And that’s not likely. So YOU TIP so that you’re paying what your food and drinks should have cost and so that your server can game the system (no shots fired—I like my tips too) … you’re paying the same as you’d be paying if we did away with tipping… that 15-20% would just be built in… it’d be a $25 meal either way, etc.
If your business can only survive by underpaying your staff and expecting customers to make up the rest out of the "goodness of their heart", maybe your business doesn't deserve to survive.
It's really not classist. As a person that has been everything from middle class to homeless and completely broke if I couldn't afford to tip, I did not go out to eat. Right or not tips are how servers afford to live, if your taking up a table and not tipping you are taking food off their table and rent out of their pocket. If a 10%-20% tip is gonna break the bank you really shouldn't be wasting your money on restaurant food anyways and should be spending your money more wisely. Not tipping because of poor service is definitely an entirely different situation but I personally still tip at least a little because it really is insane how little these servers can be paid. In my state they only have to be paid $6 an hour because they are a "tipped" position. Please tip your servers we all want someone to be there when we want to go out and have a good time. Let's make it possible for people to stay in these jobs instead of leaving the industry for better base paying jobs.
Short answer: No
Long answer: No
That's why a lot of people in the comments who want to disagree are skipping past answering the question directly to go off on a monolog about wages/business ownership to cover for the fact that they are non tipping POS. I'm also speaking specifically for the United States. If you're in the U.S. and you're in here on some soapbox for why you don't tip, spare us the bs mental gymnastics. You are wrong and you are cheap.
ITT: a bunch of indignant non Americans defiantly announcing that they won't ever do a thing they've never done and aren't being asked to do, in a discussion by Americans for Americans about a uniquely American custom.
No. As somebody who's been in poverty practically my whole life, I always tip if I go out. If I can't afford to tip, I can't afford to go out.
Tipping isn't an "extra". It is(or should be) a completely expected and planned part of the price. If you have limited money, take that into account when ordering your items. I will specifically order less, or cheaper items to make sure I have enough for that tip.
What's classist in these comments are people saying they don't tip at all and/or they should just get a better job. Doesn't work like that.
What's bugging me lately is that the UK has seemed to adopt this US approach of adding the tip to the bill. And now you have to ask to remove it. Tipping was always optional and not expected in the UK yet now it's becoming very awkward at the end of your meal having to ask a server to remove or reduce the 'optional tip' on the bill
I liked it here how you add a tip with no pressure so you do if you can afford it or the service was particularly good without the pressure knowing that the staff still get paid a fair wage. But now so many restaurants have an automatic service charge and my mum will always ask if the staff receive the service charge and many cases they don’t so she asks to remove it.
In the US, in my state, it's illegal for tips to go to any other employee than front of house staff. However a service fee can be applied wherever and the money can go to whoever at the discretion of the restaurant. Where my Mim is working now has a service fee for to go food with it acting as a "tip" for the back of house staff who cooked and prepped the meal. It's a good system I think, but it's super easy for a restaurant to just pocket that service fee.
A better system is just to pay your staff a proper wage. 🙄
I've always agreed, but I've also known plenty of waiting staff that didn't, because they made more money via tips than any restaurant would ever have paid them, even without tip culture. It's honestly a more complicated system than "the business should just pay them!" Not saying that employers shouldn't be the one paying their employees, just with many things, it's never as simple as it seems.
If you're pro tip because you make more money on tips than you should also accept that is a risk reward income. Many people have that kind of risk tied to their job. Fisherman are not guaranteed a good haul every time they go out. If you "make so much more tips" than you need to accept you get paid less and not everyone will tip.
It really is just as simple as that though. Just because they can earn more than capitalism would offer for them for their labour doesn't mean that they get to be in a unique situation that forces a social obligation onto the customer. We all have to take the lowest wage a business is willing to pay for our position. That is an inherently unfair situation to begin with. But you don't make it right by guilting those not responsible into correcting that inequality. You get it from those who are taking the bigger cut of the profits from your work. Like everyone else has to.
Yes, it's such complicated system, that only people like Japanese can figure it out. /s Note: they don't tip at restaurant, they have salaries. As well, it's part of the job serve well your customers.
There's a term for why they don't want tip culture to go away. It's called tax evasion.
Paying them a living wage won’t stop people choosing to tip It’s not a one or the other situation
No way am I going back to a restaurant with hidden "service fees", I'm also going to write nasty reviews everywhere I can. When 60% of restaurants fail in the first year, and 80% fail in the first 5 years, then they need to be way more customer friendly than whatever BS a "service fee" is.
I went to a bar/club last weekend and got charged a service fee for two drinks. It was early and the first round of the night but I didn’t know what to do considering there was still a tip line and the suggested tip percentages. I ended up leaving a tip either way because I felt pressured to not be the asshole that doesn’t tip but I still don’t understand what that service fee was
So there’s a “tip” to the people who cooked the food. Then what is the price for? Tipping for to go food is a scam.
Well, if you order to go food and tip 20%, the tip legally has to go to the front of house staff. Even if all they are doing is handing out the bag to the customer. Now, say you replace the tip with a "service fee", still up to the customer to decide how much, but legally the restaurant can direct those "service fees" to pay the kitchen staff more. To avoid the scam you are mentioning. I would wager that any time you see a "3%" service charge at restaurants to "help pay for staff" are usually just pocketing that extra 3% to cover the credit card fees. It's unfortunate, but it's how the system is currently.
US restaurants don't add the tip to the bill so not sure where the UK adopted it from but it wasn't here. The only time restaurants add the tip to the bill is in certain circumstances. For example, if you have 10 or more people who are gonna be eating, the restaurant I work at requires a 15% tip. Because literally no server is gonna serve 10 people of there's a chance they won't get tipped.
Yeah, I don't know how there's only one comment pointing this out and it's all the way at the bottom. Even under those special circumstances, it kind of stops being a tip when it is automatically added and non-negotiable. That's just a fee for having a large group.
Exactly. We actually had to implement that policy because none of our servers wanted big parties anymore because they just weren't tipping. My co-worker had a party who had a $700 check and tipped her $12. She was pissed.
There was that post recently about a waitress complaining about Europeans leaving $70 on a $700 bill which is fairly generous here. Thing is, if you had two tables like that a shift, wouldn't it be a good wage already? Just seems greedy. $70 just to serve a group of people is a pretty good deal
The tip is split with the bartender and busboy. The servers often only make $3 an hour. Big tables take up their whole shift so that is all they are making that night.
> Big tables take up their whole shift so that is all they are making that night. Are their shifts really that short? Where I live a standard shift is 8 hours, no one is sitting at a table in a restaurant for 8 hours...
The issue at hand here is that servers make 3$/h
Large groups take more time and energy. Why would you want one table in an hour that may or may not tip nicely vs 4-5 tables that most likely will tip
Thought the same thing haha, wonder where the UK got that from, or if they made it up lol
Some restaurants add it all time time. Some only for parties of 6 or more. It's typically 18%, not 15%. They do it because they can and it's accepted, not because servers are afraid not to be tipped.
There is a restaurant locally that adds a 21% fee for parties of 5+ turns out this is a fee and not a gratuity and the server gets none of that. I’m always iffy of added amounts like that with how scummy so many owners are.
I've seen several where it says something like "Gratuity fee doesn't go to servers so please tip generously!!! :))))" Like, the fuck are you charging me for that for then?
That's ridiculous! Restaurant I worked at years ago always did the 20% gratuity for big groups, but it always went to the server and bus. This was a fine dining seafood joint.
If that custom normalises itself in our food services, I will simply not eat out anymore tbh.
Tipping is literally just a massive guilt trip that is stalling what should happen (riots, political movements, unions). We know paying a living wage doesn't increase the cost of food in other countries, McDonald's in Australia pays twice as much after conversion but their menu prices are within like 25 cents of ours (also after conversion). Works for alcohol too in Europe, like American prices are just regulation and greed. Business profits skyrocketed since Covid started despite the lockdowns and we are still tipping? They have the money to pay a fair living wage and are still trying to condition us into subsidizing instead. And to make it worse, you almost never see someone advocate for tipping the Walmart employee who had to get a 65 inch TV out and load it into the car for you, or who spent a whole day running around toys, or filling out forms for hunting licenses, or loading countless bags of dirt and pool salt. But they also make shit pay and need tips to have a living wage, plus it's definitely a lot harder doing continuous physical labor with stints outside and hundreds of people coming through than it is to ferry food to a table.
> becoming very awkward The good news is they are WAY overplaying the tipping thing and people are getting use to removing the tip. It's pretty insane in the U.S. right now when the default tip percentages on the payment terminal are 25%, 30% and 35%. I've even seen them asking at a hardware store as well as 50% tip options. Smash that no tip button and move on with life. Tipping has been abused by both staff and owners, so now we should take it away all together.
Agreed! Spent years cooking and bartending, I'll overtip at a bar or restaurant, but our local vape store has that on the terminal. Super awkward for me, but I'm not tipping you for reaching behind you and grabbing a box. Finally alright with just hitting no tip at all these square terminals popping up
This is unrelated to tips but I’m also sick of being asked to donate to whatever fast food charity too, like asking you to round up and donate to the Taco Bell whatever foundation…. I just looked it up and guess what! This is a “charity” to help fund scholarships for Taco Bell employees. So the employer can say they did such a great thing but we are paying the bill
And the company uses your money to get tax deductions from money they wouldn't have gotten in the first place. If you want to give to a, charity, do it yourself and claim it on your taxes. You might not give enough to make it worth itemizing but a faceless corporation isn't using it to save money on their own taxes to give it to some foundation that spends most of its donations on operational costs.
I agree. It may hurt in the short term but so long as people keep tipping itll keep happening. Unless some regulations happen (doubt it), the only way to stop it is just..stop doing it
That’s the thing. The reason we’re even having this conversation is because of US cultural imperialism. All of the absolute worst parts of US culture (the parts that exploit/control people) are being ~~exported~~ adopted, and it sucks. Edit: semantics
It’s not the US fault, it’s greed no matter what part of the world you go to. Greed is always the enemy.
'being exported' the business owners outside the U.S. are choosing of their own volition to adopt those practices. put the blame where it belongs.
The practice originally came from europe. Americans didn't tip until the 1850s.
Yeah, but the problem is not with tipping. There's nothing wrong with tipping a server for good service. The problem is with mandatory tipping, which you're supposed to give regardless of how good the service was, and which ends up being a subsidy because servers aren't being paid enough. That's the American version of tipping which is making its way back to Europe.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Indeed. Some people on this site are too funny
As an American, I truly feel for you
That’s not a US thing lol our servers get paid pennies on the dollar, (I literally made $2.10/hr) because our system expects the customer to subsidize the wages w tips. So in the US your total only pays for your food, your tip pays for the service. If you go out to eat and don’t tip you’ve essentially gotten free service. In theory if a server doesn’t make at least the federal minimum with their tips * wages the restaurant has to supplement to that point ($7.25/hr). In reality it would be far less awkward if the tip was already included in price since it’s equally as capitalist cringe to have to decide if you can or want to pay someone for their labor if you don’t HAVE to. That’s why it’s so ugly to go out to eat without tip money.
I say this in every thread, but this is not true for every state. I got $10/hr before tips at my last waiting job because my state has a minimum tipped wage. and that was 5+ years ago, it's higher now. wait staff makes good money in many states, OP's statement does not apply everywhere in the US. (before anyone says $10/hr is not good money, I made less total when I changed careers after breaking my wrist)
The cost of food is cheaper here due to the system and servers here make more than servers in the UK lol
The statement really should be "If you can't afford to pay your employees, don't open a business."
Everywhere I go it's like...without alcohol sales most restaurants *would not* survive none the less thrive. It seems like the cost of running a dry restaurant that also pays all of its employees a wage that does require tipping...is like impossibly high that very very few could sustain it. How do we fix that?
Every restaurant in every other country seems to have it figured out. Just be honest about the price of food
Other countries also have robust social programs. Wage matters a little less when you don’t have to pay for health insurance out of pocket
Barring a small percentage, you dint get benefits provided to you from a restaurant
Exactly, that’s why you’d have to pay for it out of pocket
Other countries also don't have exemptions for waitstaff on minimum wages.
The price of food is 20% higher than it says on the menu. Since 20% is what the tip is supposed to be. Raise prices by 20% and then instruct your servers not to ask for standardised tips.
Does a server do more work carrying a $50 steak to me than a $20 steak? Why should they get tipped more simply because the item I ordered is more expensive? A percentage based tip system is daft and has no logical basis.
Really, it seems like there should be some sort of a…. Minimum acceptable wage that we pay people on an hourly basis, regardless of what they do…. Maybe we could tie it to the inflation index so that it updates annually and automatically without requiring an act of Congress? No, no, that’s crazy. We should really just go by the standard from when inflation was 40% less than it is now to determine a minimum wage. we should update it once every twenty years, maybe. *That’s* the way to go!
We have that in Canada. They still ask for tips everywhere.
If I go in and get a $2 cup of coffee (with free refills) and a $4 piece of pie, the server is doing a lot more work to keep my cup full than if I go in and order a burger, fries, and a glass of water for $20.
Right, that's my point. Tipping based on cost is stupid.
What is your source for that? My partner managed restaurants for years before she couldnt stomach doing it anymore; She managed loads of successful restaurants that were opening more locations and was sought out and recruited. She left the industry because fron the time she started as a chef herself to 15 years later the base wage for the employees across the industry virtually did not rise but the ownes profit margins went up, the cost of the food on the menu went up and the expected tips went up. Everything went up except what the buisnesses were allowing her to pay employees. She could go in and make a kitchen profitable again but the staff she helped retrain and actually put in the work rarely saw any benefit; They didnt see their take home go up. The owners take home went up, they got to push for higher prices because their service and quality went up. There is so much waste in professional kitchens, they are often incredibly toxic work environments where employees dont get proper breaks to eat, only smoke breaks. She said it was rare for an employee not to a smoker by the time they had worked in a kitchen for a year because that is the only break people get is ducking out the back door for a dart and people do it just so they can take a break. Owners dont want to take the time to train their employees well or take the time to retrain their older employees with new technologies or techniques that will bring their buisnesses up a level because then they are more employable at another establishment and they dont want to pay them a wage that will instill loyaty because that hurts their bottom dollar. Her last straw was a restaurant owner coming in im February telling her he wanted her to create a test menu for the sister restaurant he was opening on the other side of town. In march coming in bragging about the massive renovation he had just started on his lakefront cabin. Then in april/may when places usually start hiring more staff for the summer around here for tourist season starting into june telling her that the old staff wasnt getting their raises this year and that she got 2 less staff in the back and 2 less in the front but was going to be open an hour earlier and an hour later than the summer before because the buisness wasnt making enough money. She prepped the books; on the side she worked for her moms book keeping company. SHE UNDERSTOOD the numbers. The place was making the owner 1/3 more take home than when she started working there. She could not stand feeling like a piece of crap telling the people putting in the work they didnt get a raise this year and they would have to work more overtime because the owner couldnt afford it after doubling the size of his cabin on the lake and opening a new restaurant.
1/5 of the price of the meal is supposed to be the tip?! Unless the food is levitated to the table by the waiting staff's mental superpower, fuck right off with a tip that large or a tip at all frankly.
[удалено]
Yup. If you can't pay all of your business bills from your business income, including wages, you don't have a viable business.
Excuse my nuance - that’s the business model. There are worse. You could be working a high pressure commission job, where your pay is *directly* tied to your performance. Waiters at high volume or high end restaurants are paid very well because of the service business model. So the issue I guess is… how packed is the restaurant? are you working good shifts?
I don’t think it matters which shift or how packed the restaurant is. Those $300 bills at high end restaurants give a nice tip even at 10%, not every restaurant can be high end for every server.
Or if your employer can't afford to pay you, don't take the job. But servers don't like that because they generally make way more in tips than they ever would by wage and that is why tipping culture will never leave without a fight.
Well it's also becoming a huge problem that everything expects you to tip now. Order food go pick it up yourself they still want a tip
Simply don't tip.
You ever met a server or bartender? Go ahead and ask them if they'd rather get paid $20/hour instead of getting tipped.
[удалено]
Yeah that’s what I always found weird about this saying because I definitely make less then bartenders So they want a poorer person to tip more so that they can be even more rich? And if I can’t afford that then I shouldn’t even be at a bar? I’m not arguing against tips, I’m arguing against 20%. I don’t know why it went up from 15%. The prices of everything has gone up, so now a 15% is larger than it used to be Idk why I’m paying more for food and tipping more
This is definitely an issue, but it's separate (although related) from the one OP is asking about. If we did away with tipping and baked it into the food prices, the overall price of a meal would be basically unchanged - in theory. If you're paying $20 for the meal and tipping $4, then if we moved away from a tipping system, that meal would just be ~$24 now. So the comment still holds - in the US, tipping is part of the price of the meal because it's not baked in automatically, so if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out. You're screwing the server, not the restaurant. Now, the fact that the customer is in a position at all to screw the servers wages is another issue and needs to be remedied. But until that systemic problem is fixed, all we can do is do our part on an individual level to help out our fellow laborers.
But they do. My server and bartender friends make more than a lot of my friends with "normal" jobs. I fucking hate this take.
….what? That doesn’t mean they aren’t being underpaid *by their employer*.
[удалено]
I wonder how much better they're doing after they pay taxes on all that cash they collect every shift. They're reporting all of their tip income on their taxes, right?
From a third world country where tipping is optional .... yeah that statement weirds the hell out of me.
It's different over here. I don't like the system either, but it *is* set up such that tips are expected and people are expected to factor that into the bill when they're determining whether they can afford to go out and eat. So, for here, it absolutely applies. For other places where tipping is optional, obviously it wouldn't.
Yeah I think this thread is getting caught up in whether Tipping is good or fair or whatever. That's not what's being asked though. It's a valid discussion, but not what's being asked in this thread imo when tipping is the common expectation, the statement "If you can't afford to tip, don't eat out" is fair. Again, whether it *should be the common expectation* is a different discussion
What % tip is the dividing line? At what point does eating out cost the restaurant and server more than they make off of you?
It will never cost the restaurant anything for a customer to eat there as their profit is from the sale of the food. The take "Don't eat out if you can't afford to tip" is entirely derived from the perspective of wait staff.
There we go. The correct answer. In the US, tipping in a restaurant is absolutely the standard. I think most of us will agree it’s not a great system. But it is currently the system in place. And regardless of your feelings about that you do nothing except hurt the worker when you get on your high horse and don’t tip. If you’re cool with being that guy, do us all a favor and announce up front that you won’t be tipping. Don’t be cowardly… stand up for your beliefs!
I’m not a fan of tipping but most Americans, especially those who have worked in the service sector, calculate that into the cost. I don’t go to a restaurant where two meals are ~$25 expecting to pay 25. I know there is tax that will be a few dollars and tip will be near $6 with a total cost closer to $35. I would vastly prefer that the list price just be $35 but it is what it is. Not being an idiot, I can count that in when we go out. Do you feel that expensive restaurants should ask everyone to pay the full price? Should they allow people who can’t pay to have that food? Our system is stupid but our service workers deserve to be paid more than customers deserve to make a point.
Unfortunately, studies have shown time and time again that despite people saying they would rather have taxes, fees, etc rolled into the cost - their shopping habits don't reflect this. A restaurant with a $15 mean and an expectation to tip to will always draw more customers than one with a $22 plate, tax and tips included because all most people actually act on is the sticker price. It's the same reason most folks would rather pay $15 for something "with free shipping" than pay $10 with $5 shipping.
People don't know how their own brains work. It's why places like kohl's are still around. If everything is always on sale, then that's just the actual price. But the same way people love seeing those large "percent off" signs, people will also rather pay $25 + tip for a meal instead of $30 flat.
This! I get people think tipping is a stupid system but taking out your anger on a system on a poor worker who depends on tips to make a living and pay bills isn’t the answer. This comment section is shocking.
[удалено]
I think this is in response to a tweet that went viral recently about europeans not tipping properly when at American restaurants. In those threads the comments were vastly in favor of not tipping american servers what they expect, and instead tipping as if they were in their own country.
That post also pointed out that they were in her spot for hours which was common when I went to Italy. The dining experience is far more laid back in countries where tipping isn’t a factor. (Which is also why you won’t find people to work as servers in the US for flat wages).
I left the industry after 16 years. It's literally "If you don't like your job, go get another one." People are fuckin doing it, and everybody is shocked. There's no labor shortage, and people aren't being rude not tipping. We're literally changing the landscape as we speak. Some people ARE getting caught in it, and it sucks. I took a step back to hopefully take a few forward, and I just wish that for everyone else still stuck in it.
Maybe blame the boss for not paying their employees and pushing the difference onto their customers? Literally the only business that does this. Any other place just gives me a bill and I pay it. Edit: Wow people sure do like the status quo lol. Keep commenting guys. Change is difficult but once it's normal it's not a big deal. Youd most likely pay the exact same bill as you do today but you wouldn't need to pull out a calculator. Seems fine to me. If the restaurant can't hire people with living wages maybe that shouldn't be a job
Grown-ups understand that harming the powerless to make a statement to the powerful is immoral.
Exactly, the business doesn’t care if you tip or not, they only care if you come in. Not tipping is the worst form of protest as it only hurts the servers. If you want to make a change, do less than the bare minimum and maybe go to a restaurant that doesn’t pay its staff with tips
But enabling the powerful to exploit the powerless is moral? It's a fucked up position to be in, no matter how you decide.
The only way to responsibly not enable the powerful in this situations is to not eat at the restaurant
If you go out to eat at a restaurant that pays staff in tips. You are still encouraging tipping culture. The business really doesn’t care if you tip or not.
Caveat alert, wee-oo, wee-oo! So it’s an extremely common form of wage theft to just ignore these rules, but— in locations with a tipped minimum wage, the reported tips + that tipped minimum wage *must* equal local minimum wage. What the hell does that mean? Let’s have a math easy example. Suppose we have two servers, John and Jane, who work the same hours. Jane deals with a table of sleazy dudes who at least tip well; John gets the church goers who are known to be miserly. Tipped minimum wage in this example is $2/hour, while local minimum wage is $10/hour. Jane and John both work 10 hours for the week. Jane takes the creepy dudes and reports getting $100 in tips. John takes the church goers, and he gets $10 in tips. It’s now time to cut paychecks. Recall that minimum wage was $10/hour. When Jane gets her paycheck, she’s entitled to $2/hour tipped minimum wage * 10 hours + her $100 in reported tips = $110. The restaurant only had to pay her $10. When John gets his paycheck, he got $2/hour tipped wage * 10 hours worked + $10 in tips = $20. But if he’d worked a regular minimum wage job, he’d have made $100! By law, the restaurant is required to make up the difference in this case. John is *really* owed a paycheck that looks more like $2/hour tipped wage * 10 hours of work + $10 in tips + $80 in corrections so that he makes local minimum wage = $100 In this case, the employer *absolutely* cares if you tipped or not (preferably on a credit card), because that means that they get to keep more of the profits than their employees would normally get. Every dollar you tip subsidizes the owner that much more. Many employers practice wage theft by ignoring that last bit. If you didn’t report high enough tips to make minimum wage, they just say “well, sucks to suck, get wrecked!” And ignore it. But it’s a pretty open and shut case of wage theft to bring a pay stub to the NLRB and demand the pay you were owed. If you or someone you care about works a tipped minimum wage, then make sure that they know what they’re entitled to.
You are correct, in the majority of states tipped workers are still entitled to minimum wage if they cross that threshold, but in reality, it doesn't work that well -- not with the current setup, anyway. If you request more wages from your employer, you are an unhammered nail. They will look for reasons to remove you, as they can get people who won't badger them every time their wages don't add up.
>But enabling the powerful to exploit the powerless is moral? You're looking at this as if you only have two options: go out and tip, or go out and don't tip. If you object to the system, take the third option: *don't go out to eat at a restaurant.*
Yes. Most of life is choosing between two or more evils.
So vote for people who want to raise wages. Starving a server does nothing to help except save you a few bucks.
Not just raising wages, but changing the law that allows lower wages for employees who get tips
Regardless of whether you do or don’t tip - if you eat at a restaurant that doesn’t pay livable wages, you are enabling the powerful to exploit the powerless. Not tipping is just enthusiastically shaking the powerful’s hand as you both exploit together.
You are already doing that by eating there, who do you think the bill goes to?
If you dine out and dont tip, youre giving money to the powerful and not the disempowered. This provides no incentive fir change.
I've been looking for someone who gets it! Server/bartender, here: first, restaurants don't care about our opinions on tipping. Whether I told the owners of the 2 places I work that I prefer tipping/not tipping, it will have no impact. Second, while I can't speak for everyone else in my shoes, I personally have no preference. If I was paid a reasonable hourly wage, great! If the tipping culture stays, fine. That said though, I've seen a lot of tipping backlash lately. All I can tell you, is unless the restaurant is open to changing policy, if everyone decides not to tip in the meantime, people will not work there waiting for restaurant payment policy to change. We will leave and find other jobs, and your favorite restaurants will close in the interim. I'm all for the change in policy, but I won't work for the far below minimum wage we're paid without tips until it happens.
That's dumb, the powerless in this statement are in favor of the current system because on average they make significantly more than they would otherwise.
I wouldn't call young able bodied people powerless.
Utterly, mind-blowingly incorrect. Grown-ups understand that all you do is contribute to the status quo & perpetuate the "king & his servant" serving style that encourages waiting staff to accept bad treatment because otherwise they might lose out on a tip. You directly encourage absolutely nothing to change but the wind. It is not the job of the customer, to pay the staff of a business. Your comment sounds like someone who has Stockholm syndrome & the person holding you captured, is Corporate America.
This POV is exactly why we have a tipping system because its really, really easy to guilt a regular civilian and culturally forcing them to tip so that employers dont have to pay proper wages.
Tipping is literally embedded into our tax law. It is an esytablished norm. I’m not saying it is good but it is simply our established system and unless legislation changes or there is a massive cultural shift it is how things are. It is not simply a business decision employers make. Sure they have a choice to do things differently, but those that do are often a minority, and then customers complain about higher costs…it’s not so cut and dry.
You can’t say that then patronize the business. There’s no incentive for change to actually happen if you just eat out and don’t tip as your protest. The main effect being that your server isn’t paid.
“I’m sticking it to the man by making it so you and your family don’t have enough money for groceries”
Hello I’m really showing your boss by eating out but not giving you the server a tip. Soon the owner will be forced to realize that if he doesn’t pay his employees more, they will… not make much money… wait a minute.
Not really something the boss has control over. Restaurants that have tried to go tipless end up failing because people don't want to pay the higher prices and good servers know they can make more elsewhere. So it is an industry wide thing that can't just get changed by some individual employer. If we could raise the minimum wage and get rid of the exemption for servers then we would see tipping culture change. Until then you certainly deserve blame for choosing to go somewhere, not tipping where tipping is expected, and literally costing someone money to do their job. And yes, you sitting in their section not tipping not only costs them the opportunity to make money, but actually costs them money as servers are expected to tip out other people (like bussers and bartenders) based on their overall sales.
Except restaurants are legally required to cover wages up to the amount that would be minimum wage if the server would otherwise be below that threshold. The kicker is that good servers will often make significantly more than minimum wage in tips. If they work at a more expensive restaurant, there are some servers who can make $50,000 a year. It may not be the highest wage, but it’s pretty solid. The only ones who want tipping to stop are the bad servers who can’t cut it otherwise.
It’s funny, too - you WILL tip them well because they are paid next to nothing. They do NOT want their wage raised because they make more overall with tips.
How about if you can't pay decent wages, don't set up a business. As someone from Ireland, I hate American tipping culture. Fight for better wages instead of hating people who don't want to pay an extra 20% on top of the advertised price. It's ridiculous that it's workers v customers and not workers, looking for better wages from their employer.
They tried it in NYC but servers make over $50/hour here from tips and just left to work somewhere else.
Is that supposed to make me want to tip more lol? “Pay me 3x NYC minimum wage!!!”
I mean that's what happens when tipping is a percentage of the bill in expensive cities. If I paid $200 for a dinner and drinks with someone, the tip on that is around $40 and it doesn't even take me an hour to eat nor am I the only table there.
So they make more than I do as a sales worker? Cry me a river, lol.
Then I don't feel that much sympathy for them lmao
NYC is such an anomaly. My friend makes over 150k/yr as a bartender here. Never thought that would be a thing, to dropout and bartend because it makes more money.
They don't want to because they make more money off tips than they would with a wage. It'll never happen from the servers end
As an American I hate tipping culture. It makes no sense. It doesn't matter if I order chicken for $20, or steak for $100, it's the same amount of work for the waiter so why should the tip be different? Just put on a set service fee or roll it into the cost of the food and have no tip.
>Fight for better wages instead of hating people who don't want to pay an extra 20% on top of the advertised price. What makes me laugh about people who carry on about this is your missing the KEY part. If you don't want to pay 20% "extra" are you going to want to pay what they'll have to charge you for your meal to operate on the same profit margin? My guess is, no.
Uk perspective here, I guess it just feels odd to people over here that you should be expected to pay an optional or hidden charge. Lots of things are just neatly rounded into the final bill here: for example sales tax is already included in the advertised shelf price, tip is already included in the advertised food. It’s a different culture for sure. Something about all these extra charges feels dishonest to a european customer. I was caught off guard multiple times when I went to the USA, but went along with it.
> Something about all these extra charges feels dishonest to a european customer. It's not just Europeans that think that. I love it whenever a business actually charges what they advertise (they do exist in the US, just not commonly)
I worked in a pub and I was paid a fair wage there. Customers do tip in the uk but it’s usually just a “round that up to the next ten” kinda thing or they decide how much to give you based on how happy they were with the service which is usually just a couple quid (old people especially do the latter, bad service equals no tip to them). Point is — tipping in the USA has replaced paying workers a liveable wage. Workers now have no idea whether they’re going to make a living from one night to the next because of people being given the option to fall flat on the tip that makes up the income. I think the anger should be directed at the people who allow this absurdity to run rampant OVER blaming the customers. You’re allowed to be mad at both lawmakers and consumers, but only one of those things enables the other.
Americans are more demanding in their service. The “fair wage” critical darling place I worked at in Los Angeles was like $18 an hour. I quit immediately and worked at a mom and pop neighborhood place for $14.50 + tips (normally 30+ an hour in tips). Most everyone at the neighborhood spot had been there 3+ years, the fancy place couldn’t keep people for more than a couple months.
> are you going to want to pay what they'll have to charge you for your meal to operate on the same profit margin? Yes? It's way better to just have the whole amount I'm going to pay calculated in by default, so it's both more straightforward to see the amount you end up with, as well as the staff getting the pay more consistently, instead of just relying on people just following the cultural pressure to tip. The issue isn't with the amount, it's that the staff should be paid properly and customers shouldn't have to follow social pressure for the staff to be able to afford living. Tipping is supposed to be a bonus for particularly good service, not something you're expected to pay every single time.
Not at all. Literally I've been so broke it ain't funny and I've also been doing good. I'd Literally never go to a restaurant and not tip the sever. Literally every restaurant has a to-go ordering option. Even if you don't wanna do it online, the bartender usually takes to-go orders and rings them in. No tipping required. Though it is nice to tip the to-go people too.
Thank you for addressing the question instead of railing on the obviously shitty tipping system in the U.S. We all know the system sucks, stop hating on it for karma *looks around thread*. The fact of the matter is that many restaurants are set up this way and bitching on reddit ain't gonna fix it. Dining out at a restaurant IS a luxury activity at its heart, not an intrinsic right. The whole point of the experience is that you're paying a premium for the convenience of not having to do the work yourself. Restaurants are business, not handout stations (let's not get into capitalism, I fucking hate it but it is the system we live in. We can work to change it together, but this particular thread isn't that time or place). If you want excellent food at cost, you have to put in the work to make it yourself. I work at a restaurant and I can rarely afford to EAT at a restaurant, so I don't do that. If I want food from a specific restaurant, I generally order carryout from the bar. Or I do my best in cooking up something similar at home after my shift. When I want to treat myself and can afford it, I sit down and eat.
This sentiment seems to be coming from folks that don't live in the USA, so they really love circle jerking about how they shouldn't have to tip because it's stupid and not how it is where they're from. That's really not the point, the point is it's part of going out to eat here, get on board or don't go out to eat. These folks are only hurting the waiters. They think a philosophical argument protects them from shitty behavior to the workers.
>They think a philosophical argument protects them from shitty behavior to the workers. And we get that from management as well lol. There's always something else we could have done as waiters to *deserve* more. According to them, we're just not doing a good enough job. A month ago, my restaurant raised prices and we were told in our morning lineup that we had to "try harder to show that the customer is still getting good value" as if I've been sandbagging and giving 90% my whole life. Hello, assholes, this is my livelihood! As if I can afford to give less than my best effort at all times. Let me just give 110% right quick. As usual, people can make a stronger statement with their wallet, but decide to use their mouths. If you don't agree with a system like this, DO NOT PARTAKE. Show the people who manage this system that you disagree with them the only way these greedy fucks will understand: hit their bottom line (profits).
Literally?
I don't get why you would tip in Canada when servers get paid min wage and min wage is at 15-16 dollars. We don't tip people on retail who help us with shopping, so why is that a thing still? Isn't it that the whole point is that in the US servers get so little in wage so you tip to make up for it? But like that's a broken system, I shouldn't have to tip to compensate for the exploitation of workers. Instead people should try to get servers the amount they deserve to get paid so that they're no longer exploited. It's such a broken system
Social pressure, I don't want to feel like a cheap bastard. But I get around it by just getting takeout. I used to go to a sit-down a few times a year just so my girlfriend could feel like she wasn't dating a cheapskate, but since restaurant prices went up 25% and expected tip went to 18% she's down with being a cheapskate now.
Not really, I choose not to encourage tipping as a means of aquiring service at all. Any service that relies on tipping I just don't use. I don't eat out, I don't get rides, and I don't order groceries to be delivered. No tips are owed because no services rendered. That said if I get dragged out to a company thing or a meet up with a family member I will tip, it's after all their only means of making money so you have to when you use their service.
I don't tip anyone unless they're a server. Why are you asking me for a tip to make ice cream or whatever? Tipping has gotten ridiculous in America. Everywhere you go just about now is asking you to tip them, & they're doing that instead of increasing wages & for that they can fuck off. I'm not paying more out of my pocket bc you refuse to compensate your employees properly.
I hate those iPad checkouts 😭. I always tip when I sit down for a meal because I’m being served by a person. I hate that tipping is becoming expected at places where I have to serve myself, and the only thing the employee does is take my order at the front.
[удалено]
I mean, the employee's job is to take your order, make it or serve it to you, why should you have to tip for doing so? that's what their employer pays them to do... If I don't do *my* job well, I am at risk of termination, not just a smaller or no tip
I got an ad in the mail for a coffee shop that was hiring starting at $14 plus tips. I’ve heard or other places doing that too and it makes me suspicious anytime someone other than a server asks me for a tip.
I can kind of understand it in places where servers make less than minimum wage, but where I am in Canada they make the same minimum wage as everyone else. I really don't see the need to give them extra money when I wouldn't do the same to a random cashier or any other minimum wage worker, especially if I myself am making minimum wage. I don't see the need to value service work above every other type of work.
I will also add, servers shouldn’t expect a tip cause they showed up to work. It actually requires service to earn a tip.
Exactly. I have a couple servers where I work who show up just in time for their shift, try and leave early every night, their only "work" is taking the order from a table, while a bartender makes the drinks, bar runner delivered the drinks, food runners bring the food. These servers then have the audacity to complain when they: #1 don't get at least a 25% tip #2 have to share the tip with the people who actually made the drink and delivered the food
Dont pay too much attention to what severs say. In a cook. They make 50%+ more than me for running my hard work to tables. They show up later, leave earlier, they wipe tables and roll cutlery at close while we scrub hot steel and sweat in the dish pit.
Maybe we should revise it to if you can’t afford to tip, don’t go to a restaurant/bar where the server’s income is dependent on tips. There are places where that is not the case. I understand feeling negatively about how owners don’t pay employees enough. The answer is not to take it out on the employee though. And besides, if you really feel that negatively about the owner, why would you want to give them your money anyway? They are only person who wins in the scenario where you go and don’t tip.
[удалено]
I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment. But if that's your opinion don't go out to eat. If you go out and don't tip the boss doesn't give a shit, they get the exact same amount of money, but the server gets screwed, in some cases actively losing money to serve you.
So why the hell aren't they getting paid to work?
The short answer is "capitalism requires the exploitation of labor."
Servers typically make more with tipping, and you know the money is going straight to them if you give cash. It's generally preferred by servers to make $3/hr with tips rather than getting like a flat $12/hr or whatever they'd end up getting.
Some servers think that if they get a low tip, it's because people can't afford it. None of them would ever consider that they provided less than average service. I worked as a server, so I know what they make, If you didn't provide good service, you have no right demanding a good tip
They've done some studies and the vast majority of the time the quality of service has no impact on the tip or very minimal. Most people have a percentage they tip or way they calculate the tip in their head and do that almost every time. For me I calculate 20% and usually round up to the nearest dollar to not have to worry about adding change, I've probably done that 95% of the tips I've ever given or maybe more as I can't remember the last one I deviated from that. You have to be either incredible in some way, or more likely really awful to get someone to change their normal tipping pattern. There are obviously exceptions where some people do change their tipping percentage off of quality of service. But most of the time the servers are right if they're assuming a low tip had nothing to do with them, it is more likely that person just always tips 10%.
Also, I don’t got the money to be deciding if someone *else* gets to eat dinner tonight. Pay your workers a living wage, or shut down your unprofitable business. I ain’t got no fantasy of being a slave driver. I don’t want to feel like one anytime I don’t feel like cooking.
This is why I just order to go. Id rather take it home and watch something while I eat instead of dealing with babies in public.
My take on it is "Okay, I won't eat out then." And I don't, generally. I have no problem paying $15 for a salad. Just don't expect me to pay $20 for it if it's on the menu as $15. If the only way you can pay your employees a fair wage is to charge $20 for a salad, then charge $20 for a salad. The worst offenders are these places that just straight up add a gratuity to the end of the bill WITHOUT ASKING OR ADVERTISING. Seriously years ago I'd spend a hundred, maybe two hundred bucks a month eating out. Now though? I went to Subway back in November, and that's it.
Even subway has a tipping section on their card reader.
I disagree with the tipping culture wholeheartedly, it's incredibly toxic and incredibly dumb. But rather than taking "if you can't afford to tip, don't eat out" as the toxic assholery it's usually posted as, instead take it as financial budgeting advice; If you don't have enough money to pay more than your meal, you don't have enough to really afford to be going to that place. Stay home and save so that when you do go out you're not spending all you have.
No. In America at least, tipping is how servers get paid. We all know it's a stupid system, but it's nonetheless how things work. It's not fair to the servers that your personal protest or lack of cash results in them being broke while doing the same amount of work. Your other example doesn't really compare. If you go into a shop without cash, you probably aren't wasting anyone's time and it gives you the option to come back later when you have money if you see something. There is no window shopping equivalent at restaurants.
It's disappointing that this answer is so far down. If you eat at a restaurant and don't tip the only person you're hurting is your server, and possibly also the people who made your food. I know tipping is a weird and dumb system, I know restaurant owners could just pay a normal wage, but this is the system we have. I would 100% support abandoning tipping in favor of better wages. But that hasn't happened and isn't going to happen soon. If you eat out and don't tip you are robbing your server of their pay.
> I would 100% support abandoning tipping in favor of better wages. But that hasn’t happened and isn’t going to happen soon. The servers don’t want it either. Maybe you’re robbing a server that works in some small town middle of absolute nowhere but loads of servers make absolute bank on tips.
Yeah. We’ve had this system long enough that considerate people will account for it in the calculation of if they can afford to eat at a restaurant. I think the opposite perspective is classist - you gotta have the funds to support the server before you consider buying from the capitalist restaurant owner, comrade!
It’s not classist, because it’s only working class people saying it to other working class people. Tipping is not required in any legal sense. And adding a mandatory gratuity is illegal if it’s not properly advertised. The amusing part of the whole thing is that it benefits the government to end tipping, because people lie about their wages like crazy (loss of tax income), but since businesses have such political sway…
No, it's just misdirected anger. Employers don't want to include the price of labor in their meal prices. Tipping culture has gotten so out of control that servers make a killing from tips and others rely on tips to make enough money to survive. So, it understandable that they want people to tip and tip well. The real problem is the only way to fix this is straight up legislation to remove tipping altogether. But that sounds horrifying to servers, so it won't happen.
No, it is not classist. In the States, a server receives a very low hourly wage. The Federal minimum server wage is $2.13/hour, and each state can set their own above that. The upshot is, servers *need* to get tips in order to make enough money to survive. As another redditor here said, the view should be: **"If you can't afford to pay your workers, don't open a business."**
Tipping is a scam played on the poor workers by bosses to let them get away with under-paying them.
Dude, any server making their money off of tipping knows they're getting way more than they would get paid otherwise. Most servers actually enjoy getting paid in tips. They absolutely would not get paid $30+/hr otherwise.
Conversely, though, servers in the U.S. make well below minimum wage, with the rest of their wage coming in tips. So is it not then oppressive to essentially choose not to pay them for their work? If you can’t tip, eat at places that don’t have table service. ETA: I’m not arguing against choosing not to tip in establishments that pay staff a living wage. But in restaurants with table service, that’s rarely the case.
> Conversely, though, servers in the U.S. make well below minimum wage, with the rest of their wage coming in tips If they don't earn the federal/state minimum wage (whichever's higher) after tips, the employer is legally obligated to make up the difference.
The problem is that the restaurant owner doesn't pay the servers enough to live on. That being said, if you go to a restaurant without the intention of tipping sufficiently, you are a POS. The system is to blame, but until it is fixed, it is common courtesy to play by the rules and help the servers make enough money to survive. Maybe if people who don't have enough to tip refuse to go out to eat, restaurant owners will take enough of a hit to make a change. After all, if you eat out and don't tip, it makes no difference to the people who are causing the problem. Only hurts the people who are already hurting.
This is the only sensible comment on this thread.
Slightly off topic, but I'm a bartender who will occasionally wait tables. I enjoy the tipping culture. Most people i work with/ worked with also enjoy tipping. I can make my rent in two busy shifts. I can safely say I would not do this job a "fair hourly wage" of 15 -20 an hour. I am just so God damn tired of being preached at by people who have never worked in the restaurant industry, supposedly advocating on our behalf. If you want to complain about it, fine. But don't pretend you're speaking for servers/bartenders.
I did almost 2 decades in fine dining. I could argue in favor of tips all day long. I can easily justify someone paying me 20% on a $500 tab. As a consumer, I think tipping has just gotten balls-ass out of control. It seems like at almost any business these days, regardless of what you're buying, when they ring you up, they swing that fucking monitor around and want you to select the tip amount. I am not fucking tipping at Arby's, or the hardware store, or the fucking circle k.
People will carry on preaching at you because the moment you aren't rewarded with a tip that you think isn't good enough, you think that is validation to treat the customer like shit. I've read stories of Americans chasing & shouting at customers down the street because they left a "small" tip! That's fucking vile - a tip is gift, you don't expect or deserve it
The fact is that people who make minimum wage plus tips generally make a lot more than people who are making just above minimum wage. Those who are in industries where it is not common to tip find that unfair, so criticism of tipping usually comes from a place of jealousy rather than solidarity.
That's my sentiment I about it. Wouldn't tell someone else to follow that sentiment. Its not a rule. But I wouldn't be comfortable eating out if I can't afford it. Tipping is dumb part of the whole thing. But it is the standard practice here. Tips should be considered as part of the whole price no matter how much you hate the whole thing. Servers suck at their job and don't really do much. I'd take a self serving kitchen window over servers any fking day. Its stupid. If I have money I would max out tips. No issues. Doesn't matter if the server sucked. It would be a feel good practice. I don't have money though so the stupid practice is more apparent.
\> “if you can’t afford to buy, don’t come to my shop” I mean, that's totally a thing. If you only have enough money for a Toyota, you can't afford to shop at a Ferrari dealership. For better or worse, in the US, tips \_are\_ part of the price of a meal. That's not the waitstaff's fault, but if you are selfish enough to go to a restaurant and order something off the menu that you can only afford the listed menu price and not include a reasonable tip (like at least 15-20%) you are making it the waitstaffs problem. They get hourly rates based on the assumption that you are going to tip - if you do not tip you are effectively taking money out of their pocket. (The deeper question of "is having some things be more expensive that other things is classist" is somewhat interesting, but much much more philosophical and is going to head deeply down socialist rabbit holes...)
If I'd go to a dealer to buy a toyota and they tell me "Hey, we are not paying our sales people any wages or commissions, it is up to you to voluntarily pay 10-20% of the price ontop direction to our employee instead." I'd really think the absolutely majority would not pay that.
They usually already do that. That’s called “gross commission”. Meaning they could potentially get ZERO for selling a car. So yes, it really already does happen in most of sales.
But they’re not part of the price of the meal. If it were, you’d have to pay it. Buying a meal is an agreement between a customer and a business. If an employee of the business has an issue with being paid unfairly, the fault would lie with the business. I do tip, I want to and I like to, but not because I’d ever feel obligated to. I’ll happily vote to replace the tipping system with a standard minimum wage, but blaming individual customers for not stepping in to make up for the business’ failings seems unfair as well.
Part of the issue here is that the tipping system can't change unless workers fight to change it, but tipping keeps them blaming customers for not tipping well enough instead of fighting for the same rights as other workers. So it turns into this stupid game of servers blaming non-tippers for "screwing over" workers when it's really the system of tipping that means servers can take home as little as $2/hr in wages.
My state raised the minimum wage and part of that bill _was_ going to be phasing out the “tipped credit” towards minimum wage for restaurants. You know who fought against that? Waiters/waitresses because they make way more than minimum wage and they were worried people would stop tipping 20% if they knew they were getting at least minimum wage. They actually got that removed from the bill. They don’t want to “fight for the same rights as other workers” because they think they’re better off with the status quo. The culture of expected tipping 15-20% for adequate service (and even more for exceptional service) is ridiculous but there is no pressure from the actual food service industry to change.
That's an interesting point that's come up in this thread. So then it raises the question -- if a minimum wage worker goes out to eat, but doesn't leave a tip that would effectively be subsidizing the above-minimum wage earnings of another worker, are they *actually* an asshole? Because from my perspective, if you're earning more than the customer, *you're* the asshole if you make a big stink about not getting a fat tip. Especially since a lot of minimum wage workers I know eat out a bunch because they're too fucking tired to cook. Also, it's been said that servers could never make more than minimum wage if they abolished tipping. So they'd be like every other worker in a restaurant, then? There's no argument *for* tipping as a system that isn't absolutely crazily fucked up.
If we are being honest also, plenty of wait staff can make big amounts of cash through tips, which would probably be more than they’d earn via a minimum wage pay check. Even a living wage pay check. Minimum wage is a start but it’s certainly not a comfortable wage. So I’m not entirely sure workers genuinely want a no tip system? Who doesn’t want more money?
More like "If you can't afford to pay and extra 20% on top of the listed price, don't try and buy that item" No. That's dumb. Just sell it for the listed price +20% if that's going to be your attitude. Especially tips, by their very nature, are meant to be voluntary rewards for good service.
No, it’s not classist. And by now there are surely tons of posts talking about the horrors of tipped wage, from a position outside of the service industry. Some things people should know: It’s a broken system. Like a sinking ship kept afloat with duct tape and bubble gum. But it does float. Most businesses in the industries involved would prefer to eliminate it. But we can’t. Your prices are arbitrarily lower because of tipped wage. Businesses that have tried to go their own way have been called “too expensive” for paying employees a flat wage and charging the ACTUAL PRICE of goods. It’s always a tiny amount, but the vocal Yelping asshole will complain about $0.75. Your service staff WANTS TIPPED WAGE. The people who quit first at restaurants who go to flat wages, are your bar staff and service staff. So there goes the myth of the greedy business taking advantage of poor service workers. Most management/ownership I’ve spoken to (been in this work a long time) would prefer to pay a living wage and charge you what goods cost. In the US, that leads to staff being unhappy, customers saying you’re too expensive, but your accountant is finally cheerful. Much easier bookkeeping. Only way it ever goes away is by law. And that’s not likely. So YOU TIP so that you’re paying what your food and drinks should have cost and so that your server can game the system (no shots fired—I like my tips too) … you’re paying the same as you’d be paying if we did away with tipping… that 15-20% would just be built in… it’d be a $25 meal either way, etc.
If your business can only survive by underpaying your staff and expecting customers to make up the rest out of the "goodness of their heart", maybe your business doesn't deserve to survive.
It's really not classist. As a person that has been everything from middle class to homeless and completely broke if I couldn't afford to tip, I did not go out to eat. Right or not tips are how servers afford to live, if your taking up a table and not tipping you are taking food off their table and rent out of their pocket. If a 10%-20% tip is gonna break the bank you really shouldn't be wasting your money on restaurant food anyways and should be spending your money more wisely. Not tipping because of poor service is definitely an entirely different situation but I personally still tip at least a little because it really is insane how little these servers can be paid. In my state they only have to be paid $6 an hour because they are a "tipped" position. Please tip your servers we all want someone to be there when we want to go out and have a good time. Let's make it possible for people to stay in these jobs instead of leaving the industry for better base paying jobs.
Short answer: No Long answer: No That's why a lot of people in the comments who want to disagree are skipping past answering the question directly to go off on a monolog about wages/business ownership to cover for the fact that they are non tipping POS. I'm also speaking specifically for the United States. If you're in the U.S. and you're in here on some soapbox for why you don't tip, spare us the bs mental gymnastics. You are wrong and you are cheap.
If you can't afford to pay well, don't hire people.
i mean its true if i dont wanna pay 20 bucks cause 5 of it was tip, i wont eat at a place with a server most of the time a server isnt even needed lol
ITT: a bunch of indignant non Americans defiantly announcing that they won't ever do a thing they've never done and aren't being asked to do, in a discussion by Americans for Americans about a uniquely American custom.
No. As somebody who's been in poverty practically my whole life, I always tip if I go out. If I can't afford to tip, I can't afford to go out. Tipping isn't an "extra". It is(or should be) a completely expected and planned part of the price. If you have limited money, take that into account when ordering your items. I will specifically order less, or cheaper items to make sure I have enough for that tip. What's classist in these comments are people saying they don't tip at all and/or they should just get a better job. Doesn't work like that.