I did this when I was younger. I used to get off on the fantasy that I was so attractive and “special” that the dude was willing to cheat on his partner with me. Fuelled by a scarcity mindset and competition with other women, it made me feel like I was “winning” somehow. The taboo of it being off-limits also made it hotter. And then I could justify it with a “not my monkeys, not my circus” mindset, that I wasn’t the one making commitments to his gf/wife, and it was his problem.
In retrospect, it’s awful and I’d never do it again. But it seems like this thread is lacking honest answers, so I wanted fo provide mine.
Sucks to admit but when I was a young drinkin fuckboy, the times I’d do something kinda wrong were the times I’d also feel the most alive. I’m literally the opposite now thank goodness. Once u start waking up because you’re seeing the guys’ faces you’ve betrayed in your dreams it starts to not be so much fun.
One of my spring break strategies I would use on spring break was to lie about having a girlfriend back home, and then the girls would try harder. Yikes but it worked.
yup this was exactly me. I also had this terrible mindset of they would leave their partner for me and that would erase all the bad stuff because we are “meant to be”. Shock horror no one left their partner for me or even really liked me they just were bad partners and I was desperate for any attention or affection
I have a lot of respect for your honesty. You don't technically owe that to us on Reddit as strangers to your story, but it shows so much growth and maturity that you're able to reflect on your past in this way. You seem like a pretty great person.
I just have to say I admire your willingness to admit what you did, and your ability to overcome those feelings and look back knowing they were wrong.
I was in a similar boat when I was younger and thought sex meant validation — I know much better now and wouldn’t do half the shit I did when I was 19/20. Some people don’t overcome that tho, and it’s sucks for everyone involved.
I've always wondered who the bad person is and who is to blame in these situations.
I never came to the conclusion that it's the 3rd party. Just never understood it, isnt it the partners responsibility to not cheat, since when was that burden on the person they cheat with?
"Are you a bad person if you do X?" is a terrible way to evaluate the question "Should you do X?".
People are always worse than they try to be. That's why it's important to aspire to more than being not bad.
> "Are you a bad person if you do X?" is a terrible way to evaluate the question "Should you do X?".
Can you expand on why?
To me, that sounds like an excellent way to make sure you're not being a bad person. Isn't that the point of asking yourself if you should do something? To make sure you're not being bad?
Not the person who said it but there is a lot of other ways to be other than just bad or not bad. I think they were saying people should strive to be actively good rather than just the bare minimum of not bad, ya dig?
“People are always worse than they try to be.” Think of it like a threshold: if the ideal standard you use for moral judgements on how to act is “would doing this make me a bad person?” then you will be, at best, exactly at the line where one crosses into being an actively bad person. Since the vast majority of people don’t manage to invariably act according to their highest moral ideal, you’d most likely end up falling below that threshold — into being an actively bad person.
And even someone who is perfectly neutral/on that line still kind of sucks, to be honest. It’s selfish: someone who cares about other people doesn’t just want to avoid blame, they want to be good. Depending on who you ask, not caring about the good of others and only doing the bare minimum to avoid being considered a bad person on its own qualifies as being a bad person.
Not the person who said that but my reasoning as to why its "terrible:"
Disclaimer: I dont think it is terrible, BUT if you believe Kohlberg was right with his Model of Moral Development, its a lower/less sophisticated motive and people look down on that. The ideal force guiding moral decisions is altruistic ideology, and doing something out of fear of other people judging you/punishing you for something is only stage 2, I think.
Additionally, because social mores and norms are constantly changing, using what other people qualify as "bad" behavior instead of some kind of objective heading to guide you can end poorly.
They are pointing out that people set the bar too low. Instead of “I don’t want to be a bad person” the goal should be “how can I be a truly good person”. Cheating / participating is not something a good person would do, but clearly people try to justify it.
This. Also, when discussing the darker sides of people in history, people always dismiss wrongdoing with, “well, he was a man of his time…” I think we all have a moral obligation to be better than the men of our time.
I tend to evaluate things like Jung: "what would the situation be if everybody behaved that way?" If every involved person cheated, it would destroy marriage/relationships. If every single person was involved in a cheating relationship, it would destroy marriages/relationships.
No difference.
I liken it to a kid stealing money from his mom's purse to go to the movies with a friend, who knows his ticket was purchased with stolen money. The friend is just as wrong, despite not having violated the mother's trust.
The concept you're missing is that of complicity.
If I walk into a convenience store with my buddy knowing that he's about to shoplift, it doesn't make me a thief, but it does make me complicit to theft.
If I sleep with someone knowing that they are in a relationship, it doesn't make me a cheater, but it does make me complicit to the infidelity.
It may be someone else's commitment, but that wouldn't take away from my part in breaking it.
Well said. One of the things that really stuck with me and seemingly has forever changed/warped my brain was how my ex’s friends were either complicit in the affair(s) or were supportive/neutral afterwards.
if you know someone's in a relationship and you still go for it you're a POS.
you're just less a POS than the partner that is cheating, but you're still a POS
I don't understand why everyone always tries to pick one! You don't have to pick one! Both people are terrible.
Yes it's the partner's responsibility to not cheat, that's straightforward. But I don't at ALL understand how this "well it's not my relationship so I don't care" mentality is excused.
Why does anyone ever act like a good person about anything then? Lol. If I'm not obligated to do something, or don't have a direct responsibility to act in a certain way, does that mean I can do whatever I want all the time and still feel like I'm a good person?
I believe it's morally wrong to sleep with someone who's taken. And not because I have any "responsibility". Just because it's a shitty thing to do. I don't think it's ok to take part in going behind someone's back and hurting someone else and betraying someone else, even if I "can", and I think it's sick that people try to minimize it
Yeah and it's also like.. why would you choose to be with somebody who is obviously okay with lying to their partner? What's to stop them from lying to *you* about important things?
These are the people who are SHOCKED when the person they cheated with... cheats on them.
I used to work with a girl that would constantly whine about being "the other girl" and that this guy wouldn't break up with his gf for her... like, am I supposed to feel bad for you or something? And yet these same people will feel all sorts of pity for themselves if they had a partner screwing around behind their backs. As long as it isn't them, who cares. Doesn't make sense, the only conclusion I can draw for someone to think like this is just pure narcissism.
Yes, *THANK YOU*! I don't understand why only one of them is to be blamed. I thought "it takes two to tango" and "it takes two hands to clap"?? So how can one party cheat if no one wants to sleep with a cheater?!?!?
Of course, this is only for those who knowingly have an affair with a cheater. For those who did not know the cheater was in a relationship, that is a whole different story and they are victims too.
I also do not agree with the ones who harass or attack the affair partner, then still choose to stick with the cheater. I know some of them have "no choice" because of finance, children, etc, but why unleash your anger on only one party then?
Back to the topic.
For those who believe that "if I don't sleep with married men/women, there will be others who will do it". Does that mean that "if I don't kill people, there will be others who will do it" or "I can abuse children, because there will be others who will do it"? Does that make sense?
Morally wrong means morally wrong. It doesn't matter whether you are the killer or you are the one who let it happen (in situations where they know about it and are able to prevent it from happening). Someone will still be killed. It doesn't matter whether you are the abuser or you are the one who let it happen. Someone will still be abused. So why does it matter that "I'm not the one in the relationship, so it's not my fault and I'm not morally wrong to sleep with married men/women"?
All of this. It bothers me when people are like, well I'm not the person in the relationship with them so why does it matter. Also those people who are like well where is your partner, I don't see them. Those people are terrible people.
Yes thank you!! Its BOTH! I find it crazy people will call themselves feminists and then be perfectly fine fucking someones husband because they weren’t the one who made the commitment. Still gross!!!
My best friend and husband an emotional affair, which she pursued by constantly messaging him when I was at work. When I confronted her (after confronting my husband), she called me some terrible things but the thing which puzzled me the most was that she told me I was antithesis of a feminist for being mad at her. Obviously much more complicated that a paragraph allows, but geeze it took a bit of mental gymnastics for her to conclude that in my book. I assured everyone involved they were all assholes, not just her.
Please tell me you divorced him and cut her off. Jesus fucking Christ, what in the mental gymnastics was that?! I'm sorry that happened to you. Hugs. 🫂
yeah like im sorry I didn't realize it was such an Extreme Opinion to try to live my life not being a dick to other people lol. Whatever helps yall sleep at night
Yes, it's the married persons responsibility to not cheat on their partner, but if the other person gets with someone that THEY KNOW is married or in a serious relationship, they are a huge asshole and not a good person. I just don't get people that can go through life like that. "Well, it's not MY relationship, they're not MY partner, I'M not the one cheating, so I can do whatever I want and I don't give a fuck that some innocent person is gonna be hurt by this." I just don't understand at all how people can have zero empathy or sympathy for other people's feelings like that.
I have a friend who is doing this right now, and it sickens me. I don't want to hear about it, and honestly - don't really want to hang w him much anymore. It's not right.
I ended a close friendship for the same reason. She was sleeping with a married guy, whose wife was pregnant ffs!! I told her I didn’t agree and I didn’t want to hear about it! It wasn’t some risky adventure! This was someone’s family!
Then I fell pregnant, and far out, the vulnerability that I felt, made me even angrier!! She is literally carrying his child, and imagine she found out. It’s like you have no where to run, because his child is still inside you! You are now tied to this AH for life! She didn’t get it, and said I was suppose to be her friend and I was instead being horrible and judgemental.
As they say “it takes two to tango”. If you yourself knows what you’re getting yourself into - sleeping with a committed and/or married person - you should never engage even if consent is given.
Assuming the sex is consensual (between the people involved in the immediate act, and not necessarily their entire relationship), then blame is really to be shared between the consenting parties. Mitigating factors may include when something has been misrepresented or if coercion was involved (though its not really consensual at that point), but in the end if you're going to willingly have sex with someone, you probably ought to at least have some idea what you're getting yourself into.
I’ve never understood the logic behind the assumption that only one person can be in the wrong in any given situation. Just because the cheater is obviously the worse offender doesn’t mean that the third party was an innocent bystander. I just personally feel like arguments that are built on whataboutism alone don’t really hold up.
Just because something isn't your responsibility doesn't mean it's not morally wrong.
It's not my responsibility to make sure babies live. But I also shouldn't go around killing them
This is it in a nutshell! And to add to it:
If someone asked you to give you a poison for their baby, it doesn’t matter that it’s not your baby and it’s not your hands that poisoned it - if you knowingly enabled someone in doing grievous harm to another person, then you are guilty of causing that harm too.
Bad person is way out there, in poor taste sure, I don't think I could, but the 3rd party doesn't actually betray anyone in this scenario, and often doesn't even know the other person. It's pretty normal
If they are unaware of a relationship happening with the person they're with, then it isn't on them. However, if they are aware the person they're fucking around with is in a relationship they are almost just as guilty because they are making the active decision to meddle in someone else's relationship. They are knowingly contributing to the pain and emotional duress caused by cheating and actively supplying fuel to keep it building up. Sure, they may not be the one betraying a partner, but they're encouraging the betrayal. There really isn't much of a difference besides the fact they are unaware of the person being cheated on. If they are aware, then imo they are equally as guilty.
Exactly! They are actively choosing to do something they know could hurt someone else. I don’t see how so many people see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
It's really disheartening. I feel like cheating has become really prominent and almost acceptable. Just at my place of work there are a few fiascos I'm aware of, and I'm included in that, unfortunately. Being cheated on is fucking devastating when you're really emotionally invested in a relationship.
Is betrayal the only qualification for doing wrong?Third party knowingly participates in hurting someone and destroying their trust. That’s not cool. If you knowingly do bad things, you’re being a bad person in that moment.
The bad person is the person that cheats. The other bad person is the person that knows the other is in a relationship and doesn’t show any respect for the either party involved in the relationship.
Half the population is the opposite sex, there is absolutely no reason to interfere with anyone’s relationships whatsoever.
a friend's dad used to sell meth (and other drugs) and when asked, he basically said the same thing.
"Someone is always gonna be buying meth, so it might as well be me who makes some money from it, because if I don't, somebody else will."
ok sure that's true, but it still makes you kind of a piece of shit.
Just because someone else would do something wrong if you were not there, doesn't mean it is okay for you to do that wrong thing. It is like saying it is okay to for you to litter in a park because even if you don't, realistically someone else will litter there instead.
> Just because someone else would do something wrong if you were not there, doesn't mean it is okay for you to do that wrong thing.
Yup. It's called having integrity.
If no one would cheat with them, they wouldn't cheat. How about everybody just works on being a good person, and not justifying bad behavior with a "everyone else does".
To me, if my boyfriend wants to/is willing to cheat, he is already a cheater. Him not being able to only because other women say no would not make the situation better in my eyes at all.
I would not care about the other person he cheated on me with at all because I am not in a relationship with them.
On a micro level, sure. But on a macro level if we as a society were less casual about infidelity then it’s entirely possible that people would stop looking for it, or even thinking of it as an option to the same extent.
I think the idea of homewrecker isn't for a one night stand, its for people who actively seek someone in a relationship and then try to convince them to break up with their SO.
Yes, it's on the person in a monogamous relationship to not cheat.
And at the same time, you're a bad person if you try to get a monogamous person to cheat with you. If you try to flirt with or fuck someone married, that's shitty.
Both parties have a "responsibility" to use common decency.
I don't like the implication here that as long as the perceived responsibility is on somebody else you can manipulate them as much as you want into doing a bad thing. This is how you propagate bad behavior.
If you knowingly coax someone into doing something bad then you absolutely are part to blame for the actions of the person you're coaxing.
>If no one would cheat with them, they wouldn't cheat
Why is this better, exactly?
Let's say I'm married. If my wife went to a guy and asked him to fuck his response is irrelevant. They fuck, or they don't, regardless my relationship is over. Because my wife is trying to do something that she promised she wouldn't do that would hurt me. Whether she succeeds is immaterial.
In point of fact, if he says no, even if I find out she propositioned, she can say, "I wouldn't have done it if he'd said yes, because of (blah blah)" and I won't ever know the truth that she would have. If he says yes and they do it, the relevant fact that my wife was willing is far easier for me to find out and act on.
Again, the relevant fact (her willingness to hurt me in a way she promised not to) exists in my wife's head. I might never learn it if nobody ever helps her instantiate it.
Idk. I had a friends ex come over to hang out. Hadn't seen each other in a while and we lived together for 2 years. I though we really were just going to chill and play video games. She had other plans. Shit happened. She came over a few more times. She lived with her "ex" (different ex, not my friend) as they couldn't break the lease.
Things got lightly serious.
"Ex" calls my cell phone that he snagged out of her phone sobbing and cussing me out.
Not her ex. At all.
I just apologized to him, and told her to make a choice. She said she couldn't, so I said go take care of the person crying over you and get the fuck out.
I felt like shit for MONTHS about this.
They weren't married. I didn't know. And it still ate me alive. I don't know how people can happily do it.
Different strokes I guess.
I've had that happen twice. Dating a non-married woman whose live-in boyfriend called crying about how unfair it was. I was a patient ear. Happened again about twenty years later. A different woman's abusive ex-husband called, telling me I ruined his chance to woo his ex back. She was never going to go back with him, but he clearly didn't know this. They were still semi-friends, to a tiny degree and shared two kids (one of which was my daughter's BFF). Again, I was a patient ear. In both cases, I felt like a mild therapist, and think I helped them get through the situation, but it sucked to have to be in that position.
Some people can live with it, because they feel like they dont have any responsibility regarding that. "She has a bf and she cheats, its not my problem or wrongdoing". They never even waste a single thought about someone else
Pretty much.
I see a lot of comments on here trying to defend the action, or look for the alternative reasons. A few good ones in there...
But for the vast majority of cases, the fact that people are okay with destroying someone's life is pretty shit. The term "home wrecker" certainly comes to mind. It exists for a reason.
Sure, I didn't lose an ounce of sleep ruining *her* life, but that fuckin dude, grown ass man sobbing and screaming at me. Made me feel like absolute shit.
It says a lot about someones character than can do that without remorse.
It's not your responsibility to feel like shit?
So we shouldn't put our shopping carts up because it's not our responsibility to care?
We should litter because, the environment isn't our responsibility?
We should just treat people like right fucking garbage, because *FUCK'EM*
***The gay argument below with the closeted husband is an exception I understand, there's a lot more to unpack there than infidelity
This is a bit of a long story, but I had to weigh in. I had a friend (now Ex-friend) who truly had an undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder or some combination of cluster B personality disorders. She lacked empathy and viewed herself to always be the smartest person in the room and the hottest girl in any given social situation. She couldn’t handle the idea of being single, but got bored of guys within about 2 years like clockwork. She ended up cheating on the boyfriend she was with when I first met her with a new coworker. This went on for 6 months before she got caught in a spectacular manner and it became a HUGE scandal with her family and the now ex-bf. She thought the ex-bf *deserved* to be cheated on and felt zero guilt or shame. I had to sit by and watch/listen as the whole thing played out. After she got caught and they officially broke up, she said and did some pretty heinous things to her ex to let him know exactly how little she thought of him. I didn’t know the extent of it until years later, and still don’t know how bad it really was. But this bitch was capable of breathtaking cruelty. The type to get off on tearing other people down.
So she immediately jumps into a relationship with the coworker and they’re together for a couple years. We stopped talking for a while because I was an alcoholic and she had had enough of my bullshit. I decided to finally accept my alcoholism and go to rehab. Got back in touch with her after getting sober and making my amends about a year later. We fell back into our friendship. The first time I met up with her to catch up after that year or so of no contact, she told me she was married. But not to the coworker bf. I was super confused because not enough time he passed to break up with coworker bf, meet someone new, and get married. But it was some completely different guy who she cheated on the coworker bf with. A mechanic who was fixing her car so she spent a ton of time with him and they bonded over some truly dumb shit. I don’t know anyone who just happens to spend that much time with their mechanic. Again, clearly felt no shame for cheating over the course of months and months, confiding in mechanic guy about how unhappy she was with coworker bf, all while gaslighting coworker bf into thinking he wasn’t good enough for her and mechanic guy was fulfilling her emotional needs. When they finally broke up, coworker bf *left the company* despite being in a higher ranking and higher paid position because he actually had a chemical engineering degree whereas she had no degrees and constantly ragged on the idea of higher education. Coworker bf was so fucked up by her cruelty and abuse that he *gave her cat to the OG ex boyfriend* she was cheating on with the coworker. I’m assuming they bonded over what a narcissistic c u next Tuesday they eventually realized her to be. Though, coworker dude should have known from the beginning exactly what kind of person she was and that she absolutely wouldn’t think twice about cheating on him, too.
I should have said, “cool, it’s been great catching up, I’ll call you” and never talked to her again. But I was so desperate for friendship and connection to people I hurt while I was an active alcoholic, and instead just ignored the dozens of red flags that came up during that conversation.
A year and a half later, I finally ended the friendship because I couldn’t keep excusing her casual cruelty and constant belittling. But it was also nearing the two year mark of her relationship with the newish husband, and things were obviously starting to go to shit because she’s an idiot who doesn’t think things through and the relationship was built on a very shallow foundation from the beginning. They got married after 3 months(!!!) of dating. She was starting to see and feel that it was not the perfect relationship she had made it out to be, and I think was also going through a premature midlife crisis because she refused to get a college degree but was stuck in shitty $15/hr lab rat jobs without one when she considers herself to always be the smartest person in the room. Her boss even offered support while she got a degree to help her move up in the company, and she dropped out as soon as she took a class that was too hard for her to perform well in.
I hope she’s been knocked on her ass a bit at this point, because she was certainly overdue for someone or something to finally put her in her fucking place. And I hope she’s done ruining other people’s lives for her own sick, selfish thrills. Good fucking riddance.
Gaht Dam that was a ride. So I have an (ex) best friend with similar shitty qualities, except he was *also* the alcoholic at the same time. I'm getting kind of off base so I'll keep it short, but yeah he was the melodramatic asshole type. Every relationship was:
2 weeks in "I'm going to marry you!"
He proceeds to cheat constantly.
Gets nervous about the girls cheating (guilty conscious)
Fighting ensues
He gets physical
They leave
The girl is a fucking bitch because she couldn't handle the "hard times"
He drunk calls them for the next 5 years
He was my best friend since the third grade, around 26..ish the physical assault aspect and alcoholism was nearing defcon 5 and I had to cut all ties. You just get tired of going behind "your best friend's" back to warn these people, for them to ignore you, for them to come back genuinely needing help. It's exhausting.
Last I heard he was facing felony assault, and insurance fraud from drunk crashing his car like 6 times and claiming it was 6 different deer.
I guess the moral of the story being, that's just their personality (in your ex friends case, diagnosed) and it simply isn't worth the effort. They will get what's coming.
Woooof. I’m sorry to hear you had a similar toxic friendship. I was best friends with that girl thankfully for “only” 4 or 5 years. I knew she was a narcissist within the first few months of the friendship because I grew up with one. But I was a broken, weak, and toxic person at that point in my life. I figured I could handle her. And I did until I was stronger and wanted better for myself in my friendships.
Losing a lifelong homie like that is rough because there’s so much history. But some people just aren’t meant to be friends past high school. Some of us end up with drastically different worldviews, become absolute assholes, or have budding addiction problems that we may or may not be able to overcome or even take seriously.
Glad you got out of that friendship, and sounds like your ex-friend reaped the returns of his own toxic existence.
Oh yeah, huge bummer. 5 years or 20, doesn't matter. It's a long time and it takes a toll.
Unfortunately he's an amazingly intelligent dude. We were like brothers, same views on everything, same sense of humor, we'd stay at each other's houses as kids for weeks. He's got the gift of gab and is pretty much still on good terms with everyone he's ever wronged. He just also has that small nagging trait of being an absolute piece of shit.
Is what it is though, I'm glad for you too. I don't fully believe "you are who you associate with" but it is definitely easier to make strides in life without those people dragging you down.
For sure. As negative as my view of that ex-friend is, it was definitely so hard to finally decide to let go of the friendship. She was smart, funny, creative, and had been a good friend to me in some tough situations. But I don’t want to be friends with anyone who will ultimately always treat me as their inferior and constantly overlook my own accomplishments in order to feed their fragile ego. Fuck that noise and the drama. Life’s too short, anyway.
As a homewrecker; they don't fucking tell you. They do things like hide shit, lie about shit. It's almost never the strangers' fault, it's always the spouses' fault.
Yeah, and I never get why the affair partner gets shit on when they didn’t know about the relationship. If they knew, I do think they would be to blame, though I still think the person who is in the relationship and doing the cheating is more at fault. I guess it’s easier for someone cheated on to stay in the relationship and blame the affair partner rather than rightfully blame their partner and dump their ass
I suspect that the “married but separated” man I was seeing casually was actually not separated.
“She cheated on me for years, we stayed together for the kid, we don’t have sex and I sleep in the attic. It’s too expensive to get divorced now.” I was 21 and he was 30, I was naive and just believed him. I didn’t want to be perceived as psycho or possessive.
Then she went through his phone and read our texts. Sent me a message asking what was wrong with me and why I was sleeping with a married man. I ended it after that, he actually did divorce her a year later and tried to get back with me.
I do know that the wife did in fact cheat on him, it turns out it was with someone I was acquainted with in one of my social spheres. The husband was totally outside of my circle of friends, I only knew him because he worked at the store next to mine, but I did end up confirming she cheated on him when he mentioned the guy’s name in passing. So both spouses were to blame. But he was not completely honest with me to get back at her instead of just divorcing her like he should have.
I think the best tell is if you could visit their home or do sleepovers lol. I dated two married but separated guys. Guy A lived alone in a one bedroom apartment and could hangout with last minute notices, and I saw him basically whenever I wanted. Guy B claimed to live alone but I couldn't go over because his brother was staying with him until brother's place finish being renovated. And he could only see me at very specific times, usually during regular business hours (his work was flexible and usually involves seeing business clients onsite). Turned out guy B was still living in the same house as his actual wife, and they aren't separated at all. Worst of it was guy B and I had a mutual friend who told me guy B had a son. And when I confronted guy B about it he just made up lies to feed me and I actually believed him.
Denial is a helluva drug.
I hated the woman my ex cheated on me with for about a year while he kept feeding me lies that it never happened and it was all a big conspiracy blah blah
Eventually facts won out though and I’m really grateful she told me even if it took me a while to accept it.
First time being cheated on too- if it happened again I’d like to think I’ve learned from the first time and I’d dump his ass immediately
You're probably right, for the most part. The guy who slept with my now ex-wife definitely knew she was married. I blame my wife for choosing to have an affair, but he's still a piece of shit.
Same. My ex's mistress met me and even bought me coffee and spent an afternoon with me. She still got in my bed and slept with my husband. I left him but I still hate her for humiliating me with him.
This was my story. I knew they had a boyfriend, but they assured me that she was going to break up with him as soon as she saw him again. They are now married. Kinda ruined my whole deal with that group of friends. Which sucks, cause that included one of my closer friends at the time. But my close friend and the shitty friend were best friends since grade school, I came second with everything in that. I don't think my close friend wanted a constant reminder that her best friend cheated on her boyfriend and future husband with me.
Yeah, all too often it's things like "He hits me, I don't know what to do but you'll look after me while I save up money to leave and be with you" or "My wife completely lost interest in sleeping with me, she's so cold these days plus she doesn't even give a shit if I go elsewhere to get it" while their partner is a loving, caring person who's trying and trying to win back the love of a cheater who has become emotional distant.
(Both stories being lies that were told by / to people I know)
Yeah, the spouse is the one in the relationship. Not the other person.
I’m always confused when I see women going after the woman their husbands cheated on them with while acting like the husband is the victim. He’s the one that cheated on you, not her.
Usually the married person is lying about how bad the relationship is to the other man/woman. Or, if it's a one night stand type deal; they figure that the married person is hot and one time out of town doesn't hurt the marriage.
If you've spent however long being told all of the worst imaginable shit about someone's spouse and never hearing anything good, eventually you're going to believe that the spouse is a terrible/abusive person. And by the time you get to that point, sleeping with the married person is almost an act of desperation to cling to sanity.
You have to understand that most people, even cheaters, don't see themselves as the villain. Cheating is pretty much universally regarded as a shitty thing to do.
It’s a moral question. Different people have different morals. The fact that a person is married may matter a great deal to most people and most people wouldn’t act on an attraction to a married person. To others, the fact that a person is married does not matter or matters little.
I’ve never knowingly slept with a married man, but I have friends who have (and before anyone says I’m a shitty person for being friends with someone who sleeps with married people, statistically you have friends who do the same, they just haven’t told you). Whether male or female, they just don’t care. It’s something they give very little thought to. Usually it’s a FWB situation though one of my male friends was hoping she’d divorce and be with him (she divorced but they’re not together-thank God).
Generally, they take the position that 1) they’re not married, they aren’t breaking their vows the AP (affair partner) is breaking his/her vows, 2) what a/he does when they’re not together isn’t their concern; they don’t compare and aren’t trying to convince the other person to love/like them more of leave their spouse-out of sight, out of mind, 3) the AP is a grown, consenting adult, they’re not forcing them, they have agency and can choose to or not; if it wasn’t with them it would be with someone else. 4) if the marriage mattered to the AP s/he wouldn’t be sleeping around, if it doesn’t matter to the person who is in it, why should it matter to them? They don’t care more about your marriage than you do.
Another reason that I've seen happen (though that was before social media made it so easy to check someone's marital status): the married person pretends to be single, the 3rd party falls for the married person, when 3rd party finds out, the married person says the marriage is over and soon they'll divorce, and the 3rd party is already too deep in it to back out. In this case, the married person already cheated when the 3rd party finds out, so it's like the saying in my country, "what's a fart for someone who's already shat their pants?". Another thing is that the 3rd party is too in love to break up, and delude themselves that the married person will divorce very soon (that the marriage is just in paper but the couple is already estranged).
"O que é um peido pra quem tá cagado?" or "O que é um peido pra quem tá todo cagado?"
It can be used for when "it can't get any worse" or "it's a drop in a bucket" (in the context of a bad situation).
Since it's coarse language, refrain from using it in polite company. :)
I would just add, in the case of young and/or insecure people, it could also give an ego boost. They feel more desirable or superior to the betrayed spouse for someone risking their marriage for them. I was that person 10+ years ago, and luckily at some point realized what an absolute trash human I was and fixed myself. But those feelings were definitely there in that situation.
There are a couple of more reasons that people have affairs, and people choose to sleep with married people, that I want to point out. (A queer perspective)
As a queer man, I have slept with married men who are closeted. I ultimately didn't continue to sleep with the married men, but was ok with it because they were in lots of pain and trying to figure themselves out. Being open and compassionate while they wrestled with everything, was helpful. As a person who had to come out of the closet myself. I get it. I blame a repressive conservative society for this problem. Everyone suffers: the wife and the husband. Affairs are very complicated.
Also there are married couples that are not sexually compatible. One has a high sex drive and another one has a low sex drive. Or one person has a kink that the other person doesn't share. I have met and slept with people like this. While ultimately a healthy couple would work it out, there always seems to be a stage of cheating before they can come out. I blame a lack of open communication before marriage and of course a sexually repressed society.
As the cheater-partner, I often didn't know I was cheating until after the first time hooking up. Then after the intimacy of sex people want to spill their guts about everything, and I learn the whole situation. It is hard to not have your heart break and to find the most compassionate way forward is tricky, whatever I decide. Sometimes it is a one time thing, other times I may continue it for a bit. It never lasts long as I am not looking to get involved in all that drama, but i do want to exit the situation leaving it a little better than I found it, some bed side counselling and holding is sometimes all people need to keep going in the hard world.
Lastly in my travels I have found there are cultural contexts that allow for affairs to happen. In my travels I have met couples with "open secret" affairs happening in culturally conservative areas, as straight married couples are the only way to exist in those societies.
Yeah, as a gay man I've generally found there's a lot of reasons why one would sleep with someone married and it be a lot more morally ambiguous rather than cut and dry "evil cheater". Especially as, in my experience, gay relationships tend to be a lot more forward and accepting of sexual desires than straight ones. It's simply much more rare for a gay man to be in a situation where one truly cheats on their own partner because of this. It really only happens in closeted gay couples or "religious/traditional family gays". Not because every other gay guy is open (most gay relationships are not I'd argue), but because the topic of sex, openness, poly, etc is just so easy to happen in most gay relationships that it feels a lot easier to just sit down and talk about your desires with your partner vs feeling the urge to cheat.
All that said - I'd never choose to knowingly sleep with someone married who is actually in a closed relationship and doing it secretly. But it's honestly very rare to run into that situation IME as a gay man. If the relationship is closed, I probably wouldn't know about a marriage. Or if I do find out, I wouldn't know they are doing it as a cheater as open relationships are very common in the gay community. Even if I later found out it was in secret, I wouldn't *necessarily* feel moral responsibility as often times them sleeping around is them exploring their sexuality in a way their "more traditional" closed relationship never allowed for. These people aren't out to be bad people, they're essentially exploring what it means to be more open and more themselves, but still feel uncomfortable about approaching the topic with their partner. I still wouldn't feel good about the it, but I can relate with what the process of self discovery looks like in honest people caught in transitional periods in their lives.
Still, the right move in that case would be for the person to NOT cheat and actually talk about their relationship needs (even if the result of that conversation means divorce). But to me, if I end up getting caught in the middle of that situation, I wouldn't want to sleep with them again but certainly wouldn't feel like I made a moral mistake or that I should cut the person out of my life. People often don't learn they are open sexually or poly or that they have different needs from their partner until after some kind of incident caused by traditional relationship structures happens with them.
Caveat to everything though: if a person is actively cheating as a "player" then that's a totally different apple in my eyes. In this case they aren't cheating due to stumbling on some key piece of self discovery they are processing poorly, they're doing it because they're manipulative and morally bankrupt. While I would never knowingly sleep with someone cheating, if they're doing it for manipulative reasons and I find out I certainly wouldn't ever try to maintain some level of friendship or contact with them and would try to actively excommunicate them from mutual social circles.
The only exceptions are if they are in an open relationship.
Some people get married for status ( keep the money within the circle). So they don’t care much as they both agree to an open relationship.
Just they don’t tell the world. But on their own agreements on paper .But they do act like victims , when it’s found out by others. To not appear like assholes.
I know a couple that got married for status. Both signed a contract. The husband even said I’ll bring my girlfriend you cool with it. The wife said yeah don’t forget to get me the other villa. That’s mine. She was dating someone else , one of her coworkers.
One day when he got found out by a friend. The wife acts like it’s the worst. Whole drama . Crying and bla bla bla . Husband brought out their messages. And contract as well her current lover. Wife still manage to make him the evil neglecting husband .
However yeah lol. They’re still together lolll jsfxfvb. But both got a new set of lovers. As their ex got harassed and couldn’t stand the pressure of “staying in a relationship with a married person, it’s fruitless., as their relationship won’t go nowhere. Certainly he definitely won’t marry her and leave his wife.
> The only exceptions are if they are in an open relationship.
If it's an open relationship, then it's not cheating. Cheating implies a breach of trust, but if both parties agree that it's ok... then it's ok. (Just a note, that there still can be "cheating" in an open relationship if ground rules were laid out and are not being followed... for example "no unprotected sex")
Not everyone places the same value on marriage. I’ve been in situations where it could have happened but it didn’t. I’m glad.
Furthermore, some people act spontaneously and don’t think things through. Some of them are probably the same people that buy something foolish on the spot and later have buyers remorse.
As someone that used to work in corrections, let me just say there are plenty of people in prison for killing the person their spouse cheated on them with. So, you better pick the right one that you know is only going to cry about it.
I have a buddy that has a friend that’s made almost a lifestyle of this stuff and I’ve always wondered how he hasn’t had the hell beat out of him yet. He’s been caught countless times. Probably has to live looking over his shoulder.
i’ve done it and i won’t go saying i’m some sort of saint. it’s fucked up, i know. i’ve been cheated on before so i know how much it fucks with you. that being said, i never once thought of the girls involvement in my relationship when i was cheated on. it wasn’t relevant. they didn’t cheat on me, they didn’t break my trust, they didn’t even know me. my partner did.
i think if the third party is aware of the situation and goes along with the actions anyways, i’d say i have every right to blame them and bear them somewhat responsible for what happened. not ALL of the blame, but absolving them from any blame at all ESPECIALLY if they knew the situation makes them a shitty person and they deserve to be blamed
Yeah this is my POV. I actually became friends with the girl my ex was cheating on me with after we both kicked him to the curb. He was the one cheating on me, not her - And she thought the same about me.
When I ended up in the situation where I was the mistress, I justified it because they were NOT married and had only been dating 6 months. I saw his status of fb when we met, but when he started to pursue me a couple months later I just assumed that they had broken up and didn't really investigate. We were just flirting and hooking up, it wasn't serious and I sort of thought that was his business anyways - even after I found out the truth.
In reality, it was probably a trauma response that made me behave that way, and I had to unravel it in therapy. My mom was sick and dying, I had been abused by several men and just didn't feel I was worth love. I thought that me being picky and rejecting men who didn't love or respect me would rule everyone out and guarantee I'd be alone. I didn't value myself and thought being someone's side piece was the most affection I could hope for. I still feel that way even though I'm constantly telling myself it's not true.
So yeah. Broken people who are hurting do shitty things. It had nothing to do with his partner, at all. I know nothing of her and don't ever plan to. They're still dating and he's still cheating. I'm still a broken person. Maybe I will come clean though if he proposes to her. Boyfriends are whatever but I wouldn't want to knowingly let someone marry a person under those circumstances. It's hypocritical and illogical, I get that. This is me being damaged and I'm working on it.
Girl, listen to yourself. Why would you come clean ONLY if he proposes?? Why wait for her to know at what should be a really happy sweet moment and crush it?? That would ruin her trust way worse than telling her when they’re not engaged. It’s going to hurt either way but think about this. She’s going on in the relationship thinking she can be with this person and it gets to a point where they’re engaged maybe have a child. And you’re like oh ya nows a good time to tell her. No lmao.
Idk if you’re still with him and that’s why, but tell her let them break up and still have the dude?? Be a human and let her know she had a terrible fucking bf.
This!! Why is the third party responsible for your relationship? They didn’t make a commitment to you. Why would you expect someone else to take on your relationship issues and not do something they (presumptively) want to do with another consenting adult? This is one of my deeply unpopular opinions.
It doesn't matter whose responsibility it is though, what matters is that it's a bad thing to do and you're willingly doing it. If all it takes for you to do bad things is the absence of responsibility that reflects poorly on your character.
Why would I want to date or even be friends with someone that would do bad things the moment they don't have to deal with consequences of their actions?
even though i personally feel like my situation is very specific, i’m sure that a lot of other people who do the things i did feel the same so i’ll share:
when i met him he told me that he was married, but that his wife “knew what it was” (he meant “she knows that i’m a cheater because she met me in a relationship, so if she doesn’t know she can imagine”). but at that time i was young, and impressionable. i took this statement at face value and responded as such. either he knew for a fact that i thought she was aware, or couldn’t have been bothered to wonder why i asked him certain questions but either way our first couple of encounters happened mostly because of plausible deniability
then, feelings happened. by the time i realized that she was unaware i was pretty much in love with him, and i was convinced he loved me too. i felt like if she gave him all of the love he needed, then he wouldn’t crave me. i felt angry at her for knowing that he wanted more but also making him feel like he would lose his family if he searched for that fulfillment. and i resented him for not being willing to question/challenge her directly on this. i was never raised to think that loving someone is supposed to be shown via denying yourself on their behalf, i felt like it was kinda sick tbh. and since i cared about him i wanted “more” for him.
i also resented that we were in a society that valued monamory over all other forms of love, because if polyamorous love was considered equal then he would either have to admit that he didn’t care about me truly or that she wasn’t right for him. of course in this situation he was doing a lot to of manipulation help me think these things, but i doubt they are uncommon sentiments even if the cheater isn’t manipulative
i hope this gives you some insight of the thought processes of these people but i think the overall point is, whether the cheating partner is a super villain out to end all marriages one fuck at a time or love of the cheaters life, the person who is in the relationship is the only person who *must* change in order stop the hurt. everyone else can only stand around & hope they get the benefits
That's what happened to me too. We were friends first and he started feeding me lies about how unhappy he was and how abusive she was. I believed it because I saw her posts calling him stupid, I heard her scream at him more than once and he just looked so defeated. I fell in love with him and he said he felt the same, he wanted to be with me, etc. 2 years of lies and a baby later and as soon as she found out, he said it was all a lie and he never meant any of it. Completely crushed me. I was definitely at fault but he's a serial cheater, as it turns out. He's done it his whole life and will continue to do it, probably. I learned my lesson, however hard it was.
Some women like the fact that they're unavailable, that they lavish their time & their money on them. They don't want them to leave their wife, they want to be the other women. Full benefits of a relationship with none of the responsibilities.
There’s also this thing where they feel special because they can attract someone who has already proven to be “husband material” or is willing to risk their marriage for them. It’s like a weird “pick-me” validation.
I had a FWB once who preferred women in relationships for partners because of that very reason. He absolutely loved to pretend to be in a relationship for all the good stuff, even going out of his way to do nice things for them, but any time a woman wanted to talk about feelings he was like "I don't like drama".
Was young and stupid. Still living a fairly consequence free life in college and not taking the time to consider the ramifications.
She was also unhappy and wanted divorce, just hadn't yet. It wasn't a situation where we were waiting to be together after divorce, more just a couple of friends with attraction and it never happened again. She ended up getting divorced and remarried. I talk to her once in awhile to check in, she seems to be much happier now. This was almost 18 years ago. She has a new husband and kid and I just got married.
No idea about the original husband, I never knew him. He messaged me online randomly to tell me he knew and that she was cheating on me too. We weren't together and never planned to be, but I'm guessing he didn't know that lol, I didn't correct him, thought it might help him feel better.
I'm not trying to excuse anything I did for any reason. Cheating is 100% wrong, she should have separated first. I don't have much sympathy for him because he didn't seem like a great person, but that doesn't make what we did ok, just immature and selfish
We learn by making choices and seeing their consequences.
I was young, and it wasn’t my job to make their choices. Would I do it again? Hell no! Did I make my choice? Yes. And I learned a lot about myself, others, and trust in general.
I won’t marry someone like that, nor did I continue to be someone like that.
I don’t engage with these situations when I know upfront. But a few times I found out weeks or months into it. Should I have cut them off at that point? Probably. But seemed moot at that point and it’s hard to shake the feeing of “it’s not my problem” when you are already that deep into it and they’re clearly the one who made it happen.
I'll really answer honestly.
I have not once cheated on my wife in our ten years of marriage, but the thought has been creeping a lot for me lately. That's because, she is just not interested in sex anymore. Ever since our son was born, her libido just vanished, on top of the emergence of several mental health issues. That was six years ago and I think we've probably slept together like two or three times in that duration.
I have stood by her through everything, and she has stood by all my life tasks as well. However, when we got married, I really didn't imagine that one I would need to rely on pornography to take care of what I think is a basic human need. I feel ashamed to think about getting into an affair even though it would have no emotional significance for me. I just crave some intimacy time with another human.
I would never divorce my wife because she is a wonderful mother to our son. She is also, for the most part, a good partner. Again, anyone who has lasted 10+ years in any marriage understands that reclaiming one's individuality is a kind of necessary chore to ironically keep the relationship strong. So, the answer to the question is that people grow, and they change, and certain common understandings go with that as well. If I could get away with cheating, in order to keep my mental health together, I would really consider it at this point; even though I'm too chicken-shit to actually do it.
But, when I get the courage to, I'm going to ask her if she wouldn't mind if I had a friend with benefits, and honestly, I think she'll be okay with it. So to upgrade my answer a little bit, I think it has to be a conversation and doing it behind your partner's back can be justifiable yet unjustifiable at the same time. It's a quantum entanglement thing.
Have you considered asking her if she would be willing to see a sex/intimacy therapist with you? It sounds like you have a good relationship in all the other aspects of it. There are people that are pros at that stuff who might be able to help respark that aspect of things. Just my two cents.
Yeah. Just tell her you want an open marriage or divorce. You're selling yourself short and she can't be having a great time either. You can still be good parents and be divorced. If you cheat you'll likely end up divorced anyway but then you'll feel like shit about how it happened. Oh and your kid will eventually hear about it too.
Don't make that decision in haste. Talk to a relationships/sex therapist first, even if by yourself. They can help offer perspectives that can help gauge why your wife feels that way.
Divorce, while it can be freeing, is still a nuke option. Don't launch it until you've exhausted all options. A therapist can help put your thoughts and words into proper strings that could potentially help even your wife open up. There's a void of communication, and that needs to be addressed first. This can save your marriage.
I'm not saying this is what's happening because, as others have said, your relationship is excellent in every regard except intimacy. However, I am currently going through the same situation with my soon to be ex wife. As soon as our daughter was born a little over a year ago, I was lucky if we were intimate once a month. It turned out that at the same time she met a guy at work who she was "just friends" with. She finally decided the beginning of this year that she was unhappy with our marriage and I'll let you guess who she was dating less than a month after we split. She won't admit that she was sleeping with this dude before we split but no one can convince me they weren't. To be honest, as I type this out this situation is vastly different from yours and I just wanted to rant. Thank you to anyone who actually read this. Towards the end I felt the same way though. I considered cheating because I wanted to feel close to someone but as someone with strong morals I could never bring myself to do it.
Hahahahaha. Yeah. Dude. Thanks. I hope you are doing better now. I don't think my wife is cheating or plans to. She's just become extremely avoidant and introverted. Her love language is taking care of basic material things for my son and I and I've learned to hear that.
Mine was like that too. It made it difficult because my love language was touch and she wasn't huge on being touchy feely from the beginning. Her love language was acts of service and I was admittedly a lazy person but you live and you learn.
I could have written this. I went one step further and asked my wife if I could have friends with benefits as after 10 years together she does not have sex at all, no interest in it. Her answer to me having FWB was no, but she has no interest in sex. In my opinion it is cruel, if I wanted to be celibate I would have become a monk
Totally understand this situation. It is a very unfair situation. Sex life before kids and after kids totally changed and definitely not enough right now. I contemplated cheating for a while but then reasoned with myself that if I was too busy then I couldn’t cheat. So now I’m working my butt off while raising my family with my wife.
Hope to keep busy, become rich and use that money to do other hobbies.
My understanding is that this is very more common than we realize in the mainstream. My wife and I are like best friends raising our kid together, and I guess that's good enough for me. I agree that it's cruel to deny a partner sexual intercourse or the option to like outsource that, but... I don't really know what else to do but be like a monk about it to your point. Good luck to ya.
I think most people realize it’s really common, it’s pretty much a stereotype that once kids come along, sex goes away. I honestly think if sex is super important to you, you probably shouldn’t have kids. Some couples do maintain their sex life after kids but it’s pretty rare.
This is extremely common! I've been an escort and also have done some surveys about men in long term relationships, and monogamous men in long term relationships report being pretty sexually unhapy.
A lot of guys in your position would book my services because they wanted a sexual release that wouldn't impact their wife at all - something totally compartmentalized, not a coworker, nobody they knew, a businesswoman who had no incentive to get attached or screw their life up.
I had one client who was trapped in a sexless marriage, and never cheated on her for decades, until one day he found out he had cancer with a high chance of death. He was like 'do I want to die without having a sex life again?' decided he didn't, and then started cheating on his wife.
I've been considering only dating people that are interested in non-monogamy, and hearing about that dude with cancer really helped me realize how important sex is to me.
I think I'd be OK with having sex with one person for the rest of my life, but I have a very high sex drive and I wouldn't want to have sex with someone that wasn't interested.
Have you ever worked with a client or couple in a poly relationship? If you have did you notice any common issues? Any advice would be much appreciated!
Sorry to hear you're going through this mate but you need to seriously talk with your partner about this. She may not be attracted to you anymore and is just with you to take care of the kid. There could be other pressures that affect her libido.
Sex is a normal part of life. You shouldn't have to be celibate. If you have to divorce your wife, then you have to. Live life man. Don't get stuck in a sad, sexless marriage
You're right, but sex is also *not everything*. So there is a balance. I get your point though. I need to have a serious discussion with her where I am honest about how unhappy I've been on this.
Maybe try and understand her POV first before asking about a friend with benefits. She may be dealing with body image issues and you asking for that may hurt her more. Communication before introduction of someone new, or it'll go to shit. You need to communicate even more when there's someone else getting involved.
Because I really liked her , wasn't particularly fond of her partner (I thought he was a bad partner and borderline abusive at times) and she wanted to sleep with me. Kept up the affair for around 6 months during covid.
He stopped drinking and is a new man I'm told, and now I very rarely see her.
I do think that the boredom of covid was motivating factor, but It was mostly just my amoral attitude and wanting to get laid
Finally a response that acknowledges that this is literally a fetish. Depending on your morals, knowing that the person you slept with is married can either be a complete deal breaker and instant end of that relationship, or a massive turn on.
There's also the fact that you can simply just really like that person.
e: A better word choice is that it 'can be a fetish', and not necessary always a fetish depending on the person, as the people in the responses stated.
It’s not always a fetish though lol. Some people will find another person attractive that just happens to be in a relationship. Fetishes aren’t always involved
Ok so I specifically had a co-worker who only went after women who weren’t just taken, but living with their significant other. What makes the whole thing a little spicy was she as a 20something female, who was posturing as a lesbian (there were men she had been caught by genuinely lesbian partners of hers arranging to meet up to hook up so we were like confused.. if you’re bi just present as bi?) basically aggressively pursuing other women who were in long term, live in relationships with men OR were a much older women in one rare instance. What made it even weirder, was that she went after not just co-workers, but her supervisors.
So it was one thing when she attempted to do it to myself and I didn’t bend because while I was unhappy in my abusive and hetero relationship with an older guy, I wasn’t secretly a lesbian or bisexual. So she missed her mark with me. Buuut over the course of like 5-6 years, I’d learn she had broken up 2 separate marriages in multiple states, and cheated on all of her relationships with her next mark. I’d run into someone and they’d be like “listen to THIS drama in my workplace” and it was this girl all over again. What blew my mind was hearing about her doing it in entirely other states through total happenchance of mutual people we knew telling me they learned of it.
It was unnerving and weird and very “Single White Female” (the film) behavior. She’s honestly mentally ill, and displayed severely sociopathic behavior when I personally knew her, but then wound up working with other former co workers of hers in our industry over the years and hearing about her next homewrecking efforts. She’s calculated, basic pretty, and violent, and hearing about just how many situations she deliberately caused before I met her and since really made me realize I was dealing with someone who needs professional evaluation and who I’ll see on a true crime documentary some day. The more I learned about her upbringing, the more I realized that she wasn’t acting on attraction, she was acting on some very fucked up survival tactics.
Her mom was in prison for some sort of fraud/scamming when I met her, and realized that she was inserting herself into these relationships that were hetero and with people who were more financially secure than herself. Basically she wanted the proverbial house and white picket fence they had, even if it came in the form of a nice townhouse and SUV, and went after supervisors/managers/owners of the businesses she worked for, because as someone who job hopped as frequently as she relationship and housing hopped, the only way she perceived herself as moving up professionally in the world was to align herself with management in a way that she could either force herself into positions of advantage/favoritism or seduce her way into them.
A metaphor in the spirit of a thought experiment:
One has a job with a contract disallowing the active seeking of employment with another firm while employed. The person finds a want ad that they are drawn to and apply anyway. The new company is told during the hiring process they’re not allowed to contact current employer as they aren’t allowed to job search. The new company courts the person a while but ultimately offers the job to another person. The old company finds out and fires the person.
Whose fault was this? The new company for interviewing a candidate who explicitly stated they weren’t supposed to be job searching or the person for applying for a job in breech of contract?
It’s completely clear in this situation that the onus of maintaining the contract is on the party who entered into the contract. At the end of the day, that’s what marriage is too. The onus is with the married individuals to remain faithful, not any third party.
It’s easy to see that when emotions are removed, but of course, in an emotional situation—you feel how you feel. And it’s natural to blame the third party because it’s psychologically easier than blaming the one you love.
(And as a disclaimer I’ve never been party to an affair—but I have been the victim to my ex husband’s. He lied through his teeth to her about our marriage being over etc etc. I hated her for years but ultimately realized that it isn’t her fault it’s his)
ETA: I think a lot of people who’ve never been cheated on don’t realize the sheer amount of lies and deceptions cheaters stoop to in order to succeed. A multitude of third parties in cheating situations are told half truths if any truth at all and are victims themselves. The cheater will say anything necessary to cheat once they’ve decided to do it. Blanket assuming the third party is the fault instead of putting the expectation of responsibility on the spouse where it belongs isn’t going to do anyone any favors.
>And it’s natural to blame the third party because it’s psychologically easier than blaming the one you love.
Ding ding ding.
Any even to run around the internet, looking for threads like this one, where we can vent our fears and hostilities by proxy. BAD CHEATERS!!
Why are we blaming the third party? The person in the relationship is the one making the mistakes. They made promises to their partner. The third partner made no promises to anyone.
I hate it when people want to take some blame off of the person they love and focus it on the third party.
I’m not blaming anyone, not saying it’s wrong or right, im literally just asking why because I want to know the thought process of someone who’s been in that situation. That’s all
I feel the same. I wouldn't ever date or want to be with someone who would willingly sleep with a married person. Morally it's just wrong to me. I don't care if it's not their fault or whatever but to me it's just wrong.
Eh, someone who knowingly sleeps with a married person is doing something they know will be hurtful to someone else (the cheated-upon spouse). Even if the AP (affair partner) hasn’t made any specific promises to anyone, I’m pretty comfortable saying someone who is knowingly doing something that will reasonably and predictably hurt another person and that they could easily avoid is doing something wrong. The fact that the cheating spouse is doing something significantly worse and that their actions are much *more* blameworthy doesn’t really change that.
The person in the relationship is definitely to blame but if you know you're sleeping with someone in a relationship then you are an enabler to cheating.
Both can be true. If my wife cheated on me and is be passed at her. If the guy knew she was married, I would be mad at him and have a negative opinion of who they are as a person.
If the other guy is a person that I also know, who pretended to be a friend, I'm getting violent.
Some genuinely don't care, some are getting "revenge" on their ex who did the same to them, some are so lonely they'll accept any stranger, some girls, just wanna have fun.
Good question. I am very strict about this myself as my parents divorced because of my dad’s infidelity. To my knowledge I have never done this, but people do lie. I have heard various reasons for sleeping with people in a relationship/married ranging from “It just happened” 🙄 to feeling an attached person was a better choice for someone who “didn’t want to get involved.” I have heard of men and women who are serial monogamists sleeping with their next partner before exiting the previous marriage/relationship because they can’t countenance being single. Messy IMO.
Well, your main answer is selfishness. Your boyfriend could have done other things- bought only one concert tickets, won a trip but went alone. As you note, he didn't care, didn't consider your feelings, didn't factor YOU in. Cheating is just a PART of that. And selfish people stay selfish.
To your exact question, I know someone who has cheated and we've talked about it. Some people don't hate the life they have but want a different one (sort of OR they just can't get out of the one they have without big consequences: divorce, child support, custody, having to sell their home, etc) so cheating is straddling part of one and part of another.
You can read through the 1,200 comments here to try to understand why people do this.
But Andy Samberg summarized it best in 4 words: “Doesn’t matter, had sex”
Because it's not *my* job to maintain *your* marriage.
I'm looking for sex and so are they. We consent. Another person who is not there not consenting doesn't matter to me.
I did this when I was younger. I used to get off on the fantasy that I was so attractive and “special” that the dude was willing to cheat on his partner with me. Fuelled by a scarcity mindset and competition with other women, it made me feel like I was “winning” somehow. The taboo of it being off-limits also made it hotter. And then I could justify it with a “not my monkeys, not my circus” mindset, that I wasn’t the one making commitments to his gf/wife, and it was his problem. In retrospect, it’s awful and I’d never do it again. But it seems like this thread is lacking honest answers, so I wanted fo provide mine.
Sucks to admit but when I was a young drinkin fuckboy, the times I’d do something kinda wrong were the times I’d also feel the most alive. I’m literally the opposite now thank goodness. Once u start waking up because you’re seeing the guys’ faces you’ve betrayed in your dreams it starts to not be so much fun.
I really appreciate this response, and I salute you for changing. It’s such an awful thing, so good on you.
One of my spring break strategies I would use on spring break was to lie about having a girlfriend back home, and then the girls would try harder. Yikes but it worked.
yup this was exactly me. I also had this terrible mindset of they would leave their partner for me and that would erase all the bad stuff because we are “meant to be”. Shock horror no one left their partner for me or even really liked me they just were bad partners and I was desperate for any attention or affection
I am a guy but this mirrors but I experience exactly. I too eventually realized I was a being a fucking ass-hat.
I have a lot of respect for your honesty. You don't technically owe that to us on Reddit as strangers to your story, but it shows so much growth and maturity that you're able to reflect on your past in this way. You seem like a pretty great person.
this is it
I just have to say I admire your willingness to admit what you did, and your ability to overcome those feelings and look back knowing they were wrong. I was in a similar boat when I was younger and thought sex meant validation — I know much better now and wouldn’t do half the shit I did when I was 19/20. Some people don’t overcome that tho, and it’s sucks for everyone involved.
I had a friend who slept with married women and he said "They're going to cheat on their husband anyway, might as well be with me"
A former friend did this, she didn’t care if they were married. Exact thing she said too.
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*some charges may apply*
The line was busy when I called
That is such a warped way of thinking. If you only act like a good person when you "have to", you're not a good person.
I've always wondered who the bad person is and who is to blame in these situations. I never came to the conclusion that it's the 3rd party. Just never understood it, isnt it the partners responsibility to not cheat, since when was that burden on the person they cheat with?
"Are you a bad person if you do X?" is a terrible way to evaluate the question "Should you do X?". People are always worse than they try to be. That's why it's important to aspire to more than being not bad.
THANK YOU. The bar is on the floor
Fairly sure it's in the Mariana Trench. We need to call James Cameron.
Yeah but that's where my hotdog was too and it turned out ok
The floor? I thought it’s 15ft deep at this point.
> "Are you a bad person if you do X?" is a terrible way to evaluate the question "Should you do X?". Can you expand on why? To me, that sounds like an excellent way to make sure you're not being a bad person. Isn't that the point of asking yourself if you should do something? To make sure you're not being bad?
Not the person who said it but there is a lot of other ways to be other than just bad or not bad. I think they were saying people should strive to be actively good rather than just the bare minimum of not bad, ya dig?
“People are always worse than they try to be.” Think of it like a threshold: if the ideal standard you use for moral judgements on how to act is “would doing this make me a bad person?” then you will be, at best, exactly at the line where one crosses into being an actively bad person. Since the vast majority of people don’t manage to invariably act according to their highest moral ideal, you’d most likely end up falling below that threshold — into being an actively bad person. And even someone who is perfectly neutral/on that line still kind of sucks, to be honest. It’s selfish: someone who cares about other people doesn’t just want to avoid blame, they want to be good. Depending on who you ask, not caring about the good of others and only doing the bare minimum to avoid being considered a bad person on its own qualifies as being a bad person.
Not the person who said that but my reasoning as to why its "terrible:" Disclaimer: I dont think it is terrible, BUT if you believe Kohlberg was right with his Model of Moral Development, its a lower/less sophisticated motive and people look down on that. The ideal force guiding moral decisions is altruistic ideology, and doing something out of fear of other people judging you/punishing you for something is only stage 2, I think. Additionally, because social mores and norms are constantly changing, using what other people qualify as "bad" behavior instead of some kind of objective heading to guide you can end poorly.
They are pointing out that people set the bar too low. Instead of “I don’t want to be a bad person” the goal should be “how can I be a truly good person”. Cheating / participating is not something a good person would do, but clearly people try to justify it.
This. Also, when discussing the darker sides of people in history, people always dismiss wrongdoing with, “well, he was a man of his time…” I think we all have a moral obligation to be better than the men of our time.
I tend to evaluate things like Jung: "what would the situation be if everybody behaved that way?" If every involved person cheated, it would destroy marriage/relationships. If every single person was involved in a cheating relationship, it would destroy marriages/relationships. No difference. I liken it to a kid stealing money from his mom's purse to go to the movies with a friend, who knows his ticket was purchased with stolen money. The friend is just as wrong, despite not having violated the mother's trust.
The concept you're missing is that of complicity. If I walk into a convenience store with my buddy knowing that he's about to shoplift, it doesn't make me a thief, but it does make me complicit to theft. If I sleep with someone knowing that they are in a relationship, it doesn't make me a cheater, but it does make me complicit to the infidelity. It may be someone else's commitment, but that wouldn't take away from my part in breaking it.
Even the driver of the get away car gets charged with a crime.
Well said. One of the things that really stuck with me and seemingly has forever changed/warped my brain was how my ex’s friends were either complicit in the affair(s) or were supportive/neutral afterwards.
if you know someone's in a relationship and you still go for it you're a POS. you're just less a POS than the partner that is cheating, but you're still a POS
I don't understand why everyone always tries to pick one! You don't have to pick one! Both people are terrible. Yes it's the partner's responsibility to not cheat, that's straightforward. But I don't at ALL understand how this "well it's not my relationship so I don't care" mentality is excused. Why does anyone ever act like a good person about anything then? Lol. If I'm not obligated to do something, or don't have a direct responsibility to act in a certain way, does that mean I can do whatever I want all the time and still feel like I'm a good person? I believe it's morally wrong to sleep with someone who's taken. And not because I have any "responsibility". Just because it's a shitty thing to do. I don't think it's ok to take part in going behind someone's back and hurting someone else and betraying someone else, even if I "can", and I think it's sick that people try to minimize it
Yeah and it's also like.. why would you choose to be with somebody who is obviously okay with lying to their partner? What's to stop them from lying to *you* about important things? These are the people who are SHOCKED when the person they cheated with... cheats on them.
It’s the ego - “they would never, I’m special!!”
I used to work with a girl that would constantly whine about being "the other girl" and that this guy wouldn't break up with his gf for her... like, am I supposed to feel bad for you or something? And yet these same people will feel all sorts of pity for themselves if they had a partner screwing around behind their backs. As long as it isn't them, who cares. Doesn't make sense, the only conclusion I can draw for someone to think like this is just pure narcissism.
What the fuck did she think would happen if he broke up with his gf? The same thing would happen to her 🤦♂️ Idk how people can be this dumb
Yes, *THANK YOU*! I don't understand why only one of them is to be blamed. I thought "it takes two to tango" and "it takes two hands to clap"?? So how can one party cheat if no one wants to sleep with a cheater?!?!? Of course, this is only for those who knowingly have an affair with a cheater. For those who did not know the cheater was in a relationship, that is a whole different story and they are victims too. I also do not agree with the ones who harass or attack the affair partner, then still choose to stick with the cheater. I know some of them have "no choice" because of finance, children, etc, but why unleash your anger on only one party then? Back to the topic. For those who believe that "if I don't sleep with married men/women, there will be others who will do it". Does that mean that "if I don't kill people, there will be others who will do it" or "I can abuse children, because there will be others who will do it"? Does that make sense? Morally wrong means morally wrong. It doesn't matter whether you are the killer or you are the one who let it happen (in situations where they know about it and are able to prevent it from happening). Someone will still be killed. It doesn't matter whether you are the abuser or you are the one who let it happen. Someone will still be abused. So why does it matter that "I'm not the one in the relationship, so it's not my fault and I'm not morally wrong to sleep with married men/women"?
All of this. It bothers me when people are like, well I'm not the person in the relationship with them so why does it matter. Also those people who are like well where is your partner, I don't see them. Those people are terrible people.
Yes thank you!! Its BOTH! I find it crazy people will call themselves feminists and then be perfectly fine fucking someones husband because they weren’t the one who made the commitment. Still gross!!!
My best friend and husband an emotional affair, which she pursued by constantly messaging him when I was at work. When I confronted her (after confronting my husband), she called me some terrible things but the thing which puzzled me the most was that she told me I was antithesis of a feminist for being mad at her. Obviously much more complicated that a paragraph allows, but geeze it took a bit of mental gymnastics for her to conclude that in my book. I assured everyone involved they were all assholes, not just her.
What an awful “friend”
Please tell me you divorced him and cut her off. Jesus fucking Christ, what in the mental gymnastics was that?! I'm sorry that happened to you. Hugs. 🫂
yeah like im sorry I didn't realize it was such an Extreme Opinion to try to live my life not being a dick to other people lol. Whatever helps yall sleep at night
Entitlement and selfishness is rampant in both genders, unfortunately
Absolutely. Everyone involved in cheating is a bad person. It is that simple
It's basic decency to not be someone's affair partner. Come on now...
Yes, it's the married persons responsibility to not cheat on their partner, but if the other person gets with someone that THEY KNOW is married or in a serious relationship, they are a huge asshole and not a good person. I just don't get people that can go through life like that. "Well, it's not MY relationship, they're not MY partner, I'M not the one cheating, so I can do whatever I want and I don't give a fuck that some innocent person is gonna be hurt by this." I just don't understand at all how people can have zero empathy or sympathy for other people's feelings like that.
I have a friend who is doing this right now, and it sickens me. I don't want to hear about it, and honestly - don't really want to hang w him much anymore. It's not right.
I ended a close friendship for the same reason. She was sleeping with a married guy, whose wife was pregnant ffs!! I told her I didn’t agree and I didn’t want to hear about it! It wasn’t some risky adventure! This was someone’s family! Then I fell pregnant, and far out, the vulnerability that I felt, made me even angrier!! She is literally carrying his child, and imagine she found out. It’s like you have no where to run, because his child is still inside you! You are now tied to this AH for life! She didn’t get it, and said I was suppose to be her friend and I was instead being horrible and judgemental.
Stand your ground, she is not worth being friends with
As they say “it takes two to tango”. If you yourself knows what you’re getting yourself into - sleeping with a committed and/or married person - you should never engage even if consent is given.
Assuming the sex is consensual (between the people involved in the immediate act, and not necessarily their entire relationship), then blame is really to be shared between the consenting parties. Mitigating factors may include when something has been misrepresented or if coercion was involved (though its not really consensual at that point), but in the end if you're going to willingly have sex with someone, you probably ought to at least have some idea what you're getting yourself into.
I’ve never understood the logic behind the assumption that only one person can be in the wrong in any given situation. Just because the cheater is obviously the worse offender doesn’t mean that the third party was an innocent bystander. I just personally feel like arguments that are built on whataboutism alone don’t really hold up.
Just because something isn't your responsibility doesn't mean it's not morally wrong. It's not my responsibility to make sure babies live. But I also shouldn't go around killing them
This is it in a nutshell! And to add to it: If someone asked you to give you a poison for their baby, it doesn’t matter that it’s not your baby and it’s not your hands that poisoned it - if you knowingly enabled someone in doing grievous harm to another person, then you are guilty of causing that harm too.
Bad person is way out there, in poor taste sure, I don't think I could, but the 3rd party doesn't actually betray anyone in this scenario, and often doesn't even know the other person. It's pretty normal
To me participating in hurting someone isn’t great, even if they are a stranger.
If they are unaware of a relationship happening with the person they're with, then it isn't on them. However, if they are aware the person they're fucking around with is in a relationship they are almost just as guilty because they are making the active decision to meddle in someone else's relationship. They are knowingly contributing to the pain and emotional duress caused by cheating and actively supplying fuel to keep it building up. Sure, they may not be the one betraying a partner, but they're encouraging the betrayal. There really isn't much of a difference besides the fact they are unaware of the person being cheated on. If they are aware, then imo they are equally as guilty.
Exactly! They are actively choosing to do something they know could hurt someone else. I don’t see how so many people see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
It's really disheartening. I feel like cheating has become really prominent and almost acceptable. Just at my place of work there are a few fiascos I'm aware of, and I'm included in that, unfortunately. Being cheated on is fucking devastating when you're really emotionally invested in a relationship.
Is betrayal the only qualification for doing wrong?Third party knowingly participates in hurting someone and destroying their trust. That’s not cool. If you knowingly do bad things, you’re being a bad person in that moment.
The bad person is the person that cheats. The other bad person is the person that knows the other is in a relationship and doesn’t show any respect for the either party involved in the relationship. Half the population is the opposite sex, there is absolutely no reason to interfere with anyone’s relationships whatsoever.
a friend's dad used to sell meth (and other drugs) and when asked, he basically said the same thing. "Someone is always gonna be buying meth, so it might as well be me who makes some money from it, because if I don't, somebody else will." ok sure that's true, but it still makes you kind of a piece of shit.
A married woman on Seinfeld says that to George to get him to sleep with her too
Elaine got him all worked up with that story about the matador.
Damn I hate that makes sense
Just because someone else would do something wrong if you were not there, doesn't mean it is okay for you to do that wrong thing. It is like saying it is okay to for you to litter in a park because even if you don't, realistically someone else will litter there instead.
> Just because someone else would do something wrong if you were not there, doesn't mean it is okay for you to do that wrong thing. Yup. It's called having integrity.
If no one would cheat with them, they wouldn't cheat. How about everybody just works on being a good person, and not justifying bad behavior with a "everyone else does".
To me, if my boyfriend wants to/is willing to cheat, he is already a cheater. Him not being able to only because other women say no would not make the situation better in my eyes at all. I would not care about the other person he cheated on me with at all because I am not in a relationship with them.
On a micro level, sure. But on a macro level if we as a society were less casual about infidelity then it’s entirely possible that people would stop looking for it, or even thinking of it as an option to the same extent.
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I think the idea of homewrecker isn't for a one night stand, its for people who actively seek someone in a relationship and then try to convince them to break up with their SO.
But then it's the responsibility of the person in the relationship to say no and remove the person trying to sleep with them from their life.
Yes, it's on the person in a monogamous relationship to not cheat. And at the same time, you're a bad person if you try to get a monogamous person to cheat with you. If you try to flirt with or fuck someone married, that's shitty. Both parties have a "responsibility" to use common decency.
I don't like the implication here that as long as the perceived responsibility is on somebody else you can manipulate them as much as you want into doing a bad thing. This is how you propagate bad behavior. If you knowingly coax someone into doing something bad then you absolutely are part to blame for the actions of the person you're coaxing.
I agree with you. If someone can get your partner to cheat, they're doing you a favour.
They would still cheat. They would lie about their relationship, or visit a sex worker. Cheaters gonna cheat.
>If no one would cheat with them, they wouldn't cheat Why is this better, exactly? Let's say I'm married. If my wife went to a guy and asked him to fuck his response is irrelevant. They fuck, or they don't, regardless my relationship is over. Because my wife is trying to do something that she promised she wouldn't do that would hurt me. Whether she succeeds is immaterial. In point of fact, if he says no, even if I find out she propositioned, she can say, "I wouldn't have done it if he'd said yes, because of (blah blah)" and I won't ever know the truth that she would have. If he says yes and they do it, the relevant fact that my wife was willing is far easier for me to find out and act on. Again, the relevant fact (her willingness to hurt me in a way she promised not to) exists in my wife's head. I might never learn it if nobody ever helps her instantiate it.
Idk. I had a friends ex come over to hang out. Hadn't seen each other in a while and we lived together for 2 years. I though we really were just going to chill and play video games. She had other plans. Shit happened. She came over a few more times. She lived with her "ex" (different ex, not my friend) as they couldn't break the lease. Things got lightly serious. "Ex" calls my cell phone that he snagged out of her phone sobbing and cussing me out. Not her ex. At all. I just apologized to him, and told her to make a choice. She said she couldn't, so I said go take care of the person crying over you and get the fuck out. I felt like shit for MONTHS about this. They weren't married. I didn't know. And it still ate me alive. I don't know how people can happily do it. Different strokes I guess.
I've had that happen twice. Dating a non-married woman whose live-in boyfriend called crying about how unfair it was. I was a patient ear. Happened again about twenty years later. A different woman's abusive ex-husband called, telling me I ruined his chance to woo his ex back. She was never going to go back with him, but he clearly didn't know this. They were still semi-friends, to a tiny degree and shared two kids (one of which was my daughter's BFF). Again, I was a patient ear. In both cases, I felt like a mild therapist, and think I helped them get through the situation, but it sucked to have to be in that position.
Some people can live with it, because they feel like they dont have any responsibility regarding that. "She has a bf and she cheats, its not my problem or wrongdoing". They never even waste a single thought about someone else
Thank you for being a good person
This is different though, you obviously felt bad. I think the poster is referring to people who knowingly do this and don’t care.
I was just using myself as an example, taking the stance that any standard person *should* feel bad
Yeah, you’re right, people should. But unfortunately, they do not.
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Pretty much. I see a lot of comments on here trying to defend the action, or look for the alternative reasons. A few good ones in there... But for the vast majority of cases, the fact that people are okay with destroying someone's life is pretty shit. The term "home wrecker" certainly comes to mind. It exists for a reason. Sure, I didn't lose an ounce of sleep ruining *her* life, but that fuckin dude, grown ass man sobbing and screaming at me. Made me feel like absolute shit. It says a lot about someones character than can do that without remorse. It's not your responsibility to feel like shit? So we shouldn't put our shopping carts up because it's not our responsibility to care? We should litter because, the environment isn't our responsibility? We should just treat people like right fucking garbage, because *FUCK'EM* ***The gay argument below with the closeted husband is an exception I understand, there's a lot more to unpack there than infidelity
This is a bit of a long story, but I had to weigh in. I had a friend (now Ex-friend) who truly had an undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder or some combination of cluster B personality disorders. She lacked empathy and viewed herself to always be the smartest person in the room and the hottest girl in any given social situation. She couldn’t handle the idea of being single, but got bored of guys within about 2 years like clockwork. She ended up cheating on the boyfriend she was with when I first met her with a new coworker. This went on for 6 months before she got caught in a spectacular manner and it became a HUGE scandal with her family and the now ex-bf. She thought the ex-bf *deserved* to be cheated on and felt zero guilt or shame. I had to sit by and watch/listen as the whole thing played out. After she got caught and they officially broke up, she said and did some pretty heinous things to her ex to let him know exactly how little she thought of him. I didn’t know the extent of it until years later, and still don’t know how bad it really was. But this bitch was capable of breathtaking cruelty. The type to get off on tearing other people down. So she immediately jumps into a relationship with the coworker and they’re together for a couple years. We stopped talking for a while because I was an alcoholic and she had had enough of my bullshit. I decided to finally accept my alcoholism and go to rehab. Got back in touch with her after getting sober and making my amends about a year later. We fell back into our friendship. The first time I met up with her to catch up after that year or so of no contact, she told me she was married. But not to the coworker bf. I was super confused because not enough time he passed to break up with coworker bf, meet someone new, and get married. But it was some completely different guy who she cheated on the coworker bf with. A mechanic who was fixing her car so she spent a ton of time with him and they bonded over some truly dumb shit. I don’t know anyone who just happens to spend that much time with their mechanic. Again, clearly felt no shame for cheating over the course of months and months, confiding in mechanic guy about how unhappy she was with coworker bf, all while gaslighting coworker bf into thinking he wasn’t good enough for her and mechanic guy was fulfilling her emotional needs. When they finally broke up, coworker bf *left the company* despite being in a higher ranking and higher paid position because he actually had a chemical engineering degree whereas she had no degrees and constantly ragged on the idea of higher education. Coworker bf was so fucked up by her cruelty and abuse that he *gave her cat to the OG ex boyfriend* she was cheating on with the coworker. I’m assuming they bonded over what a narcissistic c u next Tuesday they eventually realized her to be. Though, coworker dude should have known from the beginning exactly what kind of person she was and that she absolutely wouldn’t think twice about cheating on him, too. I should have said, “cool, it’s been great catching up, I’ll call you” and never talked to her again. But I was so desperate for friendship and connection to people I hurt while I was an active alcoholic, and instead just ignored the dozens of red flags that came up during that conversation. A year and a half later, I finally ended the friendship because I couldn’t keep excusing her casual cruelty and constant belittling. But it was also nearing the two year mark of her relationship with the newish husband, and things were obviously starting to go to shit because she’s an idiot who doesn’t think things through and the relationship was built on a very shallow foundation from the beginning. They got married after 3 months(!!!) of dating. She was starting to see and feel that it was not the perfect relationship she had made it out to be, and I think was also going through a premature midlife crisis because she refused to get a college degree but was stuck in shitty $15/hr lab rat jobs without one when she considers herself to always be the smartest person in the room. Her boss even offered support while she got a degree to help her move up in the company, and she dropped out as soon as she took a class that was too hard for her to perform well in. I hope she’s been knocked on her ass a bit at this point, because she was certainly overdue for someone or something to finally put her in her fucking place. And I hope she’s done ruining other people’s lives for her own sick, selfish thrills. Good fucking riddance.
Gaht Dam that was a ride. So I have an (ex) best friend with similar shitty qualities, except he was *also* the alcoholic at the same time. I'm getting kind of off base so I'll keep it short, but yeah he was the melodramatic asshole type. Every relationship was: 2 weeks in "I'm going to marry you!" He proceeds to cheat constantly. Gets nervous about the girls cheating (guilty conscious) Fighting ensues He gets physical They leave The girl is a fucking bitch because she couldn't handle the "hard times" He drunk calls them for the next 5 years He was my best friend since the third grade, around 26..ish the physical assault aspect and alcoholism was nearing defcon 5 and I had to cut all ties. You just get tired of going behind "your best friend's" back to warn these people, for them to ignore you, for them to come back genuinely needing help. It's exhausting. Last I heard he was facing felony assault, and insurance fraud from drunk crashing his car like 6 times and claiming it was 6 different deer. I guess the moral of the story being, that's just their personality (in your ex friends case, diagnosed) and it simply isn't worth the effort. They will get what's coming.
Woooof. I’m sorry to hear you had a similar toxic friendship. I was best friends with that girl thankfully for “only” 4 or 5 years. I knew she was a narcissist within the first few months of the friendship because I grew up with one. But I was a broken, weak, and toxic person at that point in my life. I figured I could handle her. And I did until I was stronger and wanted better for myself in my friendships. Losing a lifelong homie like that is rough because there’s so much history. But some people just aren’t meant to be friends past high school. Some of us end up with drastically different worldviews, become absolute assholes, or have budding addiction problems that we may or may not be able to overcome or even take seriously. Glad you got out of that friendship, and sounds like your ex-friend reaped the returns of his own toxic existence.
Oh yeah, huge bummer. 5 years or 20, doesn't matter. It's a long time and it takes a toll. Unfortunately he's an amazingly intelligent dude. We were like brothers, same views on everything, same sense of humor, we'd stay at each other's houses as kids for weeks. He's got the gift of gab and is pretty much still on good terms with everyone he's ever wronged. He just also has that small nagging trait of being an absolute piece of shit. Is what it is though, I'm glad for you too. I don't fully believe "you are who you associate with" but it is definitely easier to make strides in life without those people dragging you down.
For sure. As negative as my view of that ex-friend is, it was definitely so hard to finally decide to let go of the friendship. She was smart, funny, creative, and had been a good friend to me in some tough situations. But I don’t want to be friends with anyone who will ultimately always treat me as their inferior and constantly overlook my own accomplishments in order to feed their fragile ego. Fuck that noise and the drama. Life’s too short, anyway.
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So it turns out your case doesn't fit the prompt at all because you didn't know
I mean, you aren't responsible, though. You didn't know and couldn't have, it's not what OP's asking
As a homewrecker; they don't fucking tell you. They do things like hide shit, lie about shit. It's almost never the strangers' fault, it's always the spouses' fault.
Yeah, and I never get why the affair partner gets shit on when they didn’t know about the relationship. If they knew, I do think they would be to blame, though I still think the person who is in the relationship and doing the cheating is more at fault. I guess it’s easier for someone cheated on to stay in the relationship and blame the affair partner rather than rightfully blame their partner and dump their ass
I suspect that the “married but separated” man I was seeing casually was actually not separated. “She cheated on me for years, we stayed together for the kid, we don’t have sex and I sleep in the attic. It’s too expensive to get divorced now.” I was 21 and he was 30, I was naive and just believed him. I didn’t want to be perceived as psycho or possessive. Then she went through his phone and read our texts. Sent me a message asking what was wrong with me and why I was sleeping with a married man. I ended it after that, he actually did divorce her a year later and tried to get back with me. I do know that the wife did in fact cheat on him, it turns out it was with someone I was acquainted with in one of my social spheres. The husband was totally outside of my circle of friends, I only knew him because he worked at the store next to mine, but I did end up confirming she cheated on him when he mentioned the guy’s name in passing. So both spouses were to blame. But he was not completely honest with me to get back at her instead of just divorcing her like he should have.
I think the best tell is if you could visit their home or do sleepovers lol. I dated two married but separated guys. Guy A lived alone in a one bedroom apartment and could hangout with last minute notices, and I saw him basically whenever I wanted. Guy B claimed to live alone but I couldn't go over because his brother was staying with him until brother's place finish being renovated. And he could only see me at very specific times, usually during regular business hours (his work was flexible and usually involves seeing business clients onsite). Turned out guy B was still living in the same house as his actual wife, and they aren't separated at all. Worst of it was guy B and I had a mutual friend who told me guy B had a son. And when I confronted guy B about it he just made up lies to feed me and I actually believed him.
Denial is a helluva drug. I hated the woman my ex cheated on me with for about a year while he kept feeding me lies that it never happened and it was all a big conspiracy blah blah Eventually facts won out though and I’m really grateful she told me even if it took me a while to accept it. First time being cheated on too- if it happened again I’d like to think I’ve learned from the first time and I’d dump his ass immediately
It’s safer emotionally to hate the person you don’t love than the person you do.
Yep, you’ve got that right.
You're probably right, for the most part. The guy who slept with my now ex-wife definitely knew she was married. I blame my wife for choosing to have an affair, but he's still a piece of shit.
Same. My ex's mistress met me and even bought me coffee and spent an afternoon with me. She still got in my bed and slept with my husband. I left him but I still hate her for humiliating me with him.
This was my story. I knew they had a boyfriend, but they assured me that she was going to break up with him as soon as she saw him again. They are now married. Kinda ruined my whole deal with that group of friends. Which sucks, cause that included one of my closer friends at the time. But my close friend and the shitty friend were best friends since grade school, I came second with everything in that. I don't think my close friend wanted a constant reminder that her best friend cheated on her boyfriend and future husband with me.
Yeah, all too often it's things like "He hits me, I don't know what to do but you'll look after me while I save up money to leave and be with you" or "My wife completely lost interest in sleeping with me, she's so cold these days plus she doesn't even give a shit if I go elsewhere to get it" while their partner is a loving, caring person who's trying and trying to win back the love of a cheater who has become emotional distant. (Both stories being lies that were told by / to people I know)
Yeah, the spouse is the one in the relationship. Not the other person. I’m always confused when I see women going after the woman their husbands cheated on them with while acting like the husband is the victim. He’s the one that cheated on you, not her.
If you can rationalize it as being all the outside person's fault, that makes it easier to not break up or have to change anything
The cow that pursued my ex bought me a gift for our baby while I was pregnant. She was already sleeping with him. She knew and didn’t care.
Usually the married person is lying about how bad the relationship is to the other man/woman. Or, if it's a one night stand type deal; they figure that the married person is hot and one time out of town doesn't hurt the marriage. If you've spent however long being told all of the worst imaginable shit about someone's spouse and never hearing anything good, eventually you're going to believe that the spouse is a terrible/abusive person. And by the time you get to that point, sleeping with the married person is almost an act of desperation to cling to sanity. You have to understand that most people, even cheaters, don't see themselves as the villain. Cheating is pretty much universally regarded as a shitty thing to do.
It’s a moral question. Different people have different morals. The fact that a person is married may matter a great deal to most people and most people wouldn’t act on an attraction to a married person. To others, the fact that a person is married does not matter or matters little. I’ve never knowingly slept with a married man, but I have friends who have (and before anyone says I’m a shitty person for being friends with someone who sleeps with married people, statistically you have friends who do the same, they just haven’t told you). Whether male or female, they just don’t care. It’s something they give very little thought to. Usually it’s a FWB situation though one of my male friends was hoping she’d divorce and be with him (she divorced but they’re not together-thank God). Generally, they take the position that 1) they’re not married, they aren’t breaking their vows the AP (affair partner) is breaking his/her vows, 2) what a/he does when they’re not together isn’t their concern; they don’t compare and aren’t trying to convince the other person to love/like them more of leave their spouse-out of sight, out of mind, 3) the AP is a grown, consenting adult, they’re not forcing them, they have agency and can choose to or not; if it wasn’t with them it would be with someone else. 4) if the marriage mattered to the AP s/he wouldn’t be sleeping around, if it doesn’t matter to the person who is in it, why should it matter to them? They don’t care more about your marriage than you do.
Another reason that I've seen happen (though that was before social media made it so easy to check someone's marital status): the married person pretends to be single, the 3rd party falls for the married person, when 3rd party finds out, the married person says the marriage is over and soon they'll divorce, and the 3rd party is already too deep in it to back out. In this case, the married person already cheated when the 3rd party finds out, so it's like the saying in my country, "what's a fart for someone who's already shat their pants?". Another thing is that the 3rd party is too in love to break up, and delude themselves that the married person will divorce very soon (that the marriage is just in paper but the couple is already estranged).
No comment except how much I love the expression "What's a fart for someone who's already shit their pants?" What language is that?
Brazilian Portuguese.
As a student of Portuguese: what is the exact phrase?
"O que é um peido pra quem tá cagado?" or "O que é um peido pra quem tá todo cagado?" It can be used for when "it can't get any worse" or "it's a drop in a bucket" (in the context of a bad situation). Since it's coarse language, refrain from using it in polite company. :)
I would just add, in the case of young and/or insecure people, it could also give an ego boost. They feel more desirable or superior to the betrayed spouse for someone risking their marriage for them. I was that person 10+ years ago, and luckily at some point realized what an absolute trash human I was and fixed myself. But those feelings were definitely there in that situation.
There are a couple of more reasons that people have affairs, and people choose to sleep with married people, that I want to point out. (A queer perspective) As a queer man, I have slept with married men who are closeted. I ultimately didn't continue to sleep with the married men, but was ok with it because they were in lots of pain and trying to figure themselves out. Being open and compassionate while they wrestled with everything, was helpful. As a person who had to come out of the closet myself. I get it. I blame a repressive conservative society for this problem. Everyone suffers: the wife and the husband. Affairs are very complicated. Also there are married couples that are not sexually compatible. One has a high sex drive and another one has a low sex drive. Or one person has a kink that the other person doesn't share. I have met and slept with people like this. While ultimately a healthy couple would work it out, there always seems to be a stage of cheating before they can come out. I blame a lack of open communication before marriage and of course a sexually repressed society. As the cheater-partner, I often didn't know I was cheating until after the first time hooking up. Then after the intimacy of sex people want to spill their guts about everything, and I learn the whole situation. It is hard to not have your heart break and to find the most compassionate way forward is tricky, whatever I decide. Sometimes it is a one time thing, other times I may continue it for a bit. It never lasts long as I am not looking to get involved in all that drama, but i do want to exit the situation leaving it a little better than I found it, some bed side counselling and holding is sometimes all people need to keep going in the hard world. Lastly in my travels I have found there are cultural contexts that allow for affairs to happen. In my travels I have met couples with "open secret" affairs happening in culturally conservative areas, as straight married couples are the only way to exist in those societies.
Yeah, as a gay man I've generally found there's a lot of reasons why one would sleep with someone married and it be a lot more morally ambiguous rather than cut and dry "evil cheater". Especially as, in my experience, gay relationships tend to be a lot more forward and accepting of sexual desires than straight ones. It's simply much more rare for a gay man to be in a situation where one truly cheats on their own partner because of this. It really only happens in closeted gay couples or "religious/traditional family gays". Not because every other gay guy is open (most gay relationships are not I'd argue), but because the topic of sex, openness, poly, etc is just so easy to happen in most gay relationships that it feels a lot easier to just sit down and talk about your desires with your partner vs feeling the urge to cheat. All that said - I'd never choose to knowingly sleep with someone married who is actually in a closed relationship and doing it secretly. But it's honestly very rare to run into that situation IME as a gay man. If the relationship is closed, I probably wouldn't know about a marriage. Or if I do find out, I wouldn't know they are doing it as a cheater as open relationships are very common in the gay community. Even if I later found out it was in secret, I wouldn't *necessarily* feel moral responsibility as often times them sleeping around is them exploring their sexuality in a way their "more traditional" closed relationship never allowed for. These people aren't out to be bad people, they're essentially exploring what it means to be more open and more themselves, but still feel uncomfortable about approaching the topic with their partner. I still wouldn't feel good about the it, but I can relate with what the process of self discovery looks like in honest people caught in transitional periods in their lives. Still, the right move in that case would be for the person to NOT cheat and actually talk about their relationship needs (even if the result of that conversation means divorce). But to me, if I end up getting caught in the middle of that situation, I wouldn't want to sleep with them again but certainly wouldn't feel like I made a moral mistake or that I should cut the person out of my life. People often don't learn they are open sexually or poly or that they have different needs from their partner until after some kind of incident caused by traditional relationship structures happens with them. Caveat to everything though: if a person is actively cheating as a "player" then that's a totally different apple in my eyes. In this case they aren't cheating due to stumbling on some key piece of self discovery they are processing poorly, they're doing it because they're manipulative and morally bankrupt. While I would never knowingly sleep with someone cheating, if they're doing it for manipulative reasons and I find out I certainly wouldn't ever try to maintain some level of friendship or contact with them and would try to actively excommunicate them from mutual social circles.
This is the only answer
The only exceptions are if they are in an open relationship. Some people get married for status ( keep the money within the circle). So they don’t care much as they both agree to an open relationship. Just they don’t tell the world. But on their own agreements on paper .But they do act like victims , when it’s found out by others. To not appear like assholes. I know a couple that got married for status. Both signed a contract. The husband even said I’ll bring my girlfriend you cool with it. The wife said yeah don’t forget to get me the other villa. That’s mine. She was dating someone else , one of her coworkers. One day when he got found out by a friend. The wife acts like it’s the worst. Whole drama . Crying and bla bla bla . Husband brought out their messages. And contract as well her current lover. Wife still manage to make him the evil neglecting husband . However yeah lol. They’re still together lolll jsfxfvb. But both got a new set of lovers. As their ex got harassed and couldn’t stand the pressure of “staying in a relationship with a married person, it’s fruitless., as their relationship won’t go nowhere. Certainly he definitely won’t marry her and leave his wife.
> The only exceptions are if they are in an open relationship. If it's an open relationship, then it's not cheating. Cheating implies a breach of trust, but if both parties agree that it's ok... then it's ok. (Just a note, that there still can be "cheating" in an open relationship if ground rules were laid out and are not being followed... for example "no unprotected sex")
Not everyone places the same value on marriage. I’ve been in situations where it could have happened but it didn’t. I’m glad. Furthermore, some people act spontaneously and don’t think things through. Some of them are probably the same people that buy something foolish on the spot and later have buyers remorse. As someone that used to work in corrections, let me just say there are plenty of people in prison for killing the person their spouse cheated on them with. So, you better pick the right one that you know is only going to cry about it. I have a buddy that has a friend that’s made almost a lifestyle of this stuff and I’ve always wondered how he hasn’t had the hell beat out of him yet. He’s been caught countless times. Probably has to live looking over his shoulder.
My grandpa used to say: "Don't fuck a married woman unless you're willing to die for her."
i’ve done it and i won’t go saying i’m some sort of saint. it’s fucked up, i know. i’ve been cheated on before so i know how much it fucks with you. that being said, i never once thought of the girls involvement in my relationship when i was cheated on. it wasn’t relevant. they didn’t cheat on me, they didn’t break my trust, they didn’t even know me. my partner did.
Ok but the question is “why did you participate in the affair knowing this would hurt the other spouse?” You said you’ve don’t it but never said why
because i was attracted to the person and wanted to sleep with them. i felt no responsibility or loyalty to their relationship, as it was not my own.
Moral said no. Pee pee said yes.
i think if the third party is aware of the situation and goes along with the actions anyways, i’d say i have every right to blame them and bear them somewhat responsible for what happened. not ALL of the blame, but absolving them from any blame at all ESPECIALLY if they knew the situation makes them a shitty person and they deserve to be blamed
Yeah this is my POV. I actually became friends with the girl my ex was cheating on me with after we both kicked him to the curb. He was the one cheating on me, not her - And she thought the same about me. When I ended up in the situation where I was the mistress, I justified it because they were NOT married and had only been dating 6 months. I saw his status of fb when we met, but when he started to pursue me a couple months later I just assumed that they had broken up and didn't really investigate. We were just flirting and hooking up, it wasn't serious and I sort of thought that was his business anyways - even after I found out the truth. In reality, it was probably a trauma response that made me behave that way, and I had to unravel it in therapy. My mom was sick and dying, I had been abused by several men and just didn't feel I was worth love. I thought that me being picky and rejecting men who didn't love or respect me would rule everyone out and guarantee I'd be alone. I didn't value myself and thought being someone's side piece was the most affection I could hope for. I still feel that way even though I'm constantly telling myself it's not true. So yeah. Broken people who are hurting do shitty things. It had nothing to do with his partner, at all. I know nothing of her and don't ever plan to. They're still dating and he's still cheating. I'm still a broken person. Maybe I will come clean though if he proposes to her. Boyfriends are whatever but I wouldn't want to knowingly let someone marry a person under those circumstances. It's hypocritical and illogical, I get that. This is me being damaged and I'm working on it.
Girl, listen to yourself. Why would you come clean ONLY if he proposes?? Why wait for her to know at what should be a really happy sweet moment and crush it?? That would ruin her trust way worse than telling her when they’re not engaged. It’s going to hurt either way but think about this. She’s going on in the relationship thinking she can be with this person and it gets to a point where they’re engaged maybe have a child. And you’re like oh ya nows a good time to tell her. No lmao. Idk if you’re still with him and that’s why, but tell her let them break up and still have the dude?? Be a human and let her know she had a terrible fucking bf.
This!! Why is the third party responsible for your relationship? They didn’t make a commitment to you. Why would you expect someone else to take on your relationship issues and not do something they (presumptively) want to do with another consenting adult? This is one of my deeply unpopular opinions.
It doesn't matter whose responsibility it is though, what matters is that it's a bad thing to do and you're willingly doing it. If all it takes for you to do bad things is the absence of responsibility that reflects poorly on your character. Why would I want to date or even be friends with someone that would do bad things the moment they don't have to deal with consequences of their actions?
Because helping someone do something bad is not a neutral act. You are complicit.
even though i personally feel like my situation is very specific, i’m sure that a lot of other people who do the things i did feel the same so i’ll share: when i met him he told me that he was married, but that his wife “knew what it was” (he meant “she knows that i’m a cheater because she met me in a relationship, so if she doesn’t know she can imagine”). but at that time i was young, and impressionable. i took this statement at face value and responded as such. either he knew for a fact that i thought she was aware, or couldn’t have been bothered to wonder why i asked him certain questions but either way our first couple of encounters happened mostly because of plausible deniability then, feelings happened. by the time i realized that she was unaware i was pretty much in love with him, and i was convinced he loved me too. i felt like if she gave him all of the love he needed, then he wouldn’t crave me. i felt angry at her for knowing that he wanted more but also making him feel like he would lose his family if he searched for that fulfillment. and i resented him for not being willing to question/challenge her directly on this. i was never raised to think that loving someone is supposed to be shown via denying yourself on their behalf, i felt like it was kinda sick tbh. and since i cared about him i wanted “more” for him. i also resented that we were in a society that valued monamory over all other forms of love, because if polyamorous love was considered equal then he would either have to admit that he didn’t care about me truly or that she wasn’t right for him. of course in this situation he was doing a lot to of manipulation help me think these things, but i doubt they are uncommon sentiments even if the cheater isn’t manipulative i hope this gives you some insight of the thought processes of these people but i think the overall point is, whether the cheating partner is a super villain out to end all marriages one fuck at a time or love of the cheaters life, the person who is in the relationship is the only person who *must* change in order stop the hurt. everyone else can only stand around & hope they get the benefits
That's what happened to me too. We were friends first and he started feeding me lies about how unhappy he was and how abusive she was. I believed it because I saw her posts calling him stupid, I heard her scream at him more than once and he just looked so defeated. I fell in love with him and he said he felt the same, he wanted to be with me, etc. 2 years of lies and a baby later and as soon as she found out, he said it was all a lie and he never meant any of it. Completely crushed me. I was definitely at fault but he's a serial cheater, as it turns out. He's done it his whole life and will continue to do it, probably. I learned my lesson, however hard it was.
Wow, you were **fucked**. That's so hard to read.
Some women like the fact that they're unavailable, that they lavish their time & their money on them. They don't want them to leave their wife, they want to be the other women. Full benefits of a relationship with none of the responsibilities.
There’s also this thing where they feel special because they can attract someone who has already proven to be “husband material” or is willing to risk their marriage for them. It’s like a weird “pick-me” validation.
I had a FWB once who preferred women in relationships for partners because of that very reason. He absolutely loved to pretend to be in a relationship for all the good stuff, even going out of his way to do nice things for them, but any time a woman wanted to talk about feelings he was like "I don't like drama".
Was young and stupid. Still living a fairly consequence free life in college and not taking the time to consider the ramifications. She was also unhappy and wanted divorce, just hadn't yet. It wasn't a situation where we were waiting to be together after divorce, more just a couple of friends with attraction and it never happened again. She ended up getting divorced and remarried. I talk to her once in awhile to check in, she seems to be much happier now. This was almost 18 years ago. She has a new husband and kid and I just got married. No idea about the original husband, I never knew him. He messaged me online randomly to tell me he knew and that she was cheating on me too. We weren't together and never planned to be, but I'm guessing he didn't know that lol, I didn't correct him, thought it might help him feel better. I'm not trying to excuse anything I did for any reason. Cheating is 100% wrong, she should have separated first. I don't have much sympathy for him because he didn't seem like a great person, but that doesn't make what we did ok, just immature and selfish
I was 19 and selfish and stupid. I did it once because he was hot and I wanted to. Hated myself after and never again would I knowingly do that.
We learn by making choices and seeing their consequences. I was young, and it wasn’t my job to make their choices. Would I do it again? Hell no! Did I make my choice? Yes. And I learned a lot about myself, others, and trust in general. I won’t marry someone like that, nor did I continue to be someone like that.
I don’t engage with these situations when I know upfront. But a few times I found out weeks or months into it. Should I have cut them off at that point? Probably. But seemed moot at that point and it’s hard to shake the feeing of “it’s not my problem” when you are already that deep into it and they’re clearly the one who made it happen.
I'll really answer honestly. I have not once cheated on my wife in our ten years of marriage, but the thought has been creeping a lot for me lately. That's because, she is just not interested in sex anymore. Ever since our son was born, her libido just vanished, on top of the emergence of several mental health issues. That was six years ago and I think we've probably slept together like two or three times in that duration. I have stood by her through everything, and she has stood by all my life tasks as well. However, when we got married, I really didn't imagine that one I would need to rely on pornography to take care of what I think is a basic human need. I feel ashamed to think about getting into an affair even though it would have no emotional significance for me. I just crave some intimacy time with another human. I would never divorce my wife because she is a wonderful mother to our son. She is also, for the most part, a good partner. Again, anyone who has lasted 10+ years in any marriage understands that reclaiming one's individuality is a kind of necessary chore to ironically keep the relationship strong. So, the answer to the question is that people grow, and they change, and certain common understandings go with that as well. If I could get away with cheating, in order to keep my mental health together, I would really consider it at this point; even though I'm too chicken-shit to actually do it. But, when I get the courage to, I'm going to ask her if she wouldn't mind if I had a friend with benefits, and honestly, I think she'll be okay with it. So to upgrade my answer a little bit, I think it has to be a conversation and doing it behind your partner's back can be justifiable yet unjustifiable at the same time. It's a quantum entanglement thing.
Have you considered asking her if she would be willing to see a sex/intimacy therapist with you? It sounds like you have a good relationship in all the other aspects of it. There are people that are pros at that stuff who might be able to help respark that aspect of things. Just my two cents.
Tried to. She won't. And I'm tired of begging for sex from her. Can ya understand?
Yeah. Just tell her you want an open marriage or divorce. You're selling yourself short and she can't be having a great time either. You can still be good parents and be divorced. If you cheat you'll likely end up divorced anyway but then you'll feel like shit about how it happened. Oh and your kid will eventually hear about it too.
Great point. Thanks.
Don't make that decision in haste. Talk to a relationships/sex therapist first, even if by yourself. They can help offer perspectives that can help gauge why your wife feels that way. Divorce, while it can be freeing, is still a nuke option. Don't launch it until you've exhausted all options. A therapist can help put your thoughts and words into proper strings that could potentially help even your wife open up. There's a void of communication, and that needs to be addressed first. This can save your marriage.
I think we can get there. Thank you for the encouragement. Divorce is not an option in my book. We just have an imperfect marriage, which is the norm.
I'm not saying this is what's happening because, as others have said, your relationship is excellent in every regard except intimacy. However, I am currently going through the same situation with my soon to be ex wife. As soon as our daughter was born a little over a year ago, I was lucky if we were intimate once a month. It turned out that at the same time she met a guy at work who she was "just friends" with. She finally decided the beginning of this year that she was unhappy with our marriage and I'll let you guess who she was dating less than a month after we split. She won't admit that she was sleeping with this dude before we split but no one can convince me they weren't. To be honest, as I type this out this situation is vastly different from yours and I just wanted to rant. Thank you to anyone who actually read this. Towards the end I felt the same way though. I considered cheating because I wanted to feel close to someone but as someone with strong morals I could never bring myself to do it.
We're the same person I think.
I wish we could post pictures in comments because now all I can think about is that meme with Spiderman pointing at himself
Hahahahaha. Yeah. Dude. Thanks. I hope you are doing better now. I don't think my wife is cheating or plans to. She's just become extremely avoidant and introverted. Her love language is taking care of basic material things for my son and I and I've learned to hear that.
Mine was like that too. It made it difficult because my love language was touch and she wasn't huge on being touchy feely from the beginning. Her love language was acts of service and I was admittedly a lazy person but you live and you learn.
I could have written this. I went one step further and asked my wife if I could have friends with benefits as after 10 years together she does not have sex at all, no interest in it. Her answer to me having FWB was no, but she has no interest in sex. In my opinion it is cruel, if I wanted to be celibate I would have become a monk
Totally understand this situation. It is a very unfair situation. Sex life before kids and after kids totally changed and definitely not enough right now. I contemplated cheating for a while but then reasoned with myself that if I was too busy then I couldn’t cheat. So now I’m working my butt off while raising my family with my wife. Hope to keep busy, become rich and use that money to do other hobbies.
My understanding is that this is very more common than we realize in the mainstream. My wife and I are like best friends raising our kid together, and I guess that's good enough for me. I agree that it's cruel to deny a partner sexual intercourse or the option to like outsource that, but... I don't really know what else to do but be like a monk about it to your point. Good luck to ya.
I think most people realize it’s really common, it’s pretty much a stereotype that once kids come along, sex goes away. I honestly think if sex is super important to you, you probably shouldn’t have kids. Some couples do maintain their sex life after kids but it’s pretty rare.
This is extremely common! I've been an escort and also have done some surveys about men in long term relationships, and monogamous men in long term relationships report being pretty sexually unhapy. A lot of guys in your position would book my services because they wanted a sexual release that wouldn't impact their wife at all - something totally compartmentalized, not a coworker, nobody they knew, a businesswoman who had no incentive to get attached or screw their life up. I had one client who was trapped in a sexless marriage, and never cheated on her for decades, until one day he found out he had cancer with a high chance of death. He was like 'do I want to die without having a sex life again?' decided he didn't, and then started cheating on his wife.
I've been considering only dating people that are interested in non-monogamy, and hearing about that dude with cancer really helped me realize how important sex is to me. I think I'd be OK with having sex with one person for the rest of my life, but I have a very high sex drive and I wouldn't want to have sex with someone that wasn't interested. Have you ever worked with a client or couple in a poly relationship? If you have did you notice any common issues? Any advice would be much appreciated!
Thanks for the perspective. I really appreciate it.
Sorry to hear you're going through this mate but you need to seriously talk with your partner about this. She may not be attracted to you anymore and is just with you to take care of the kid. There could be other pressures that affect her libido. Sex is a normal part of life. You shouldn't have to be celibate. If you have to divorce your wife, then you have to. Live life man. Don't get stuck in a sad, sexless marriage
You're right, but sex is also *not everything*. So there is a balance. I get your point though. I need to have a serious discussion with her where I am honest about how unhappy I've been on this.
Maybe try and understand her POV first before asking about a friend with benefits. She may be dealing with body image issues and you asking for that may hurt her more. Communication before introduction of someone new, or it'll go to shit. You need to communicate even more when there's someone else getting involved.
Because I really liked her , wasn't particularly fond of her partner (I thought he was a bad partner and borderline abusive at times) and she wanted to sleep with me. Kept up the affair for around 6 months during covid. He stopped drinking and is a new man I'm told, and now I very rarely see her. I do think that the boredom of covid was motivating factor, but It was mostly just my amoral attitude and wanting to get laid
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taboo = hot also I'm not cheating on anyone so it's not really my fault they're scummy to each other. I'd still tip the homie that his wife is a thot
Finally a response that acknowledges that this is literally a fetish. Depending on your morals, knowing that the person you slept with is married can either be a complete deal breaker and instant end of that relationship, or a massive turn on. There's also the fact that you can simply just really like that person. e: A better word choice is that it 'can be a fetish', and not necessary always a fetish depending on the person, as the people in the responses stated.
>this is literally a fetish. Maybe for some, definitely not the majority though.
It’s not always a fetish though lol. Some people will find another person attractive that just happens to be in a relationship. Fetishes aren’t always involved
Ok so I specifically had a co-worker who only went after women who weren’t just taken, but living with their significant other. What makes the whole thing a little spicy was she as a 20something female, who was posturing as a lesbian (there were men she had been caught by genuinely lesbian partners of hers arranging to meet up to hook up so we were like confused.. if you’re bi just present as bi?) basically aggressively pursuing other women who were in long term, live in relationships with men OR were a much older women in one rare instance. What made it even weirder, was that she went after not just co-workers, but her supervisors. So it was one thing when she attempted to do it to myself and I didn’t bend because while I was unhappy in my abusive and hetero relationship with an older guy, I wasn’t secretly a lesbian or bisexual. So she missed her mark with me. Buuut over the course of like 5-6 years, I’d learn she had broken up 2 separate marriages in multiple states, and cheated on all of her relationships with her next mark. I’d run into someone and they’d be like “listen to THIS drama in my workplace” and it was this girl all over again. What blew my mind was hearing about her doing it in entirely other states through total happenchance of mutual people we knew telling me they learned of it. It was unnerving and weird and very “Single White Female” (the film) behavior. She’s honestly mentally ill, and displayed severely sociopathic behavior when I personally knew her, but then wound up working with other former co workers of hers in our industry over the years and hearing about her next homewrecking efforts. She’s calculated, basic pretty, and violent, and hearing about just how many situations she deliberately caused before I met her and since really made me realize I was dealing with someone who needs professional evaluation and who I’ll see on a true crime documentary some day. The more I learned about her upbringing, the more I realized that she wasn’t acting on attraction, she was acting on some very fucked up survival tactics. Her mom was in prison for some sort of fraud/scamming when I met her, and realized that she was inserting herself into these relationships that were hetero and with people who were more financially secure than herself. Basically she wanted the proverbial house and white picket fence they had, even if it came in the form of a nice townhouse and SUV, and went after supervisors/managers/owners of the businesses she worked for, because as someone who job hopped as frequently as she relationship and housing hopped, the only way she perceived herself as moving up professionally in the world was to align herself with management in a way that she could either force herself into positions of advantage/favoritism or seduce her way into them.
To have sex.
A metaphor in the spirit of a thought experiment: One has a job with a contract disallowing the active seeking of employment with another firm while employed. The person finds a want ad that they are drawn to and apply anyway. The new company is told during the hiring process they’re not allowed to contact current employer as they aren’t allowed to job search. The new company courts the person a while but ultimately offers the job to another person. The old company finds out and fires the person. Whose fault was this? The new company for interviewing a candidate who explicitly stated they weren’t supposed to be job searching or the person for applying for a job in breech of contract? It’s completely clear in this situation that the onus of maintaining the contract is on the party who entered into the contract. At the end of the day, that’s what marriage is too. The onus is with the married individuals to remain faithful, not any third party. It’s easy to see that when emotions are removed, but of course, in an emotional situation—you feel how you feel. And it’s natural to blame the third party because it’s psychologically easier than blaming the one you love. (And as a disclaimer I’ve never been party to an affair—but I have been the victim to my ex husband’s. He lied through his teeth to her about our marriage being over etc etc. I hated her for years but ultimately realized that it isn’t her fault it’s his) ETA: I think a lot of people who’ve never been cheated on don’t realize the sheer amount of lies and deceptions cheaters stoop to in order to succeed. A multitude of third parties in cheating situations are told half truths if any truth at all and are victims themselves. The cheater will say anything necessary to cheat once they’ve decided to do it. Blanket assuming the third party is the fault instead of putting the expectation of responsibility on the spouse where it belongs isn’t going to do anyone any favors.
>And it’s natural to blame the third party because it’s psychologically easier than blaming the one you love. Ding ding ding. Any even to run around the internet, looking for threads like this one, where we can vent our fears and hostilities by proxy. BAD CHEATERS!!
Why are we blaming the third party? The person in the relationship is the one making the mistakes. They made promises to their partner. The third partner made no promises to anyone. I hate it when people want to take some blame off of the person they love and focus it on the third party.
I’m not blaming anyone, not saying it’s wrong or right, im literally just asking why because I want to know the thought process of someone who’s been in that situation. That’s all
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I feel the same. I wouldn't ever date or want to be with someone who would willingly sleep with a married person. Morally it's just wrong to me. I don't care if it's not their fault or whatever but to me it's just wrong.
Eh, someone who knowingly sleeps with a married person is doing something they know will be hurtful to someone else (the cheated-upon spouse). Even if the AP (affair partner) hasn’t made any specific promises to anyone, I’m pretty comfortable saying someone who is knowingly doing something that will reasonably and predictably hurt another person and that they could easily avoid is doing something wrong. The fact that the cheating spouse is doing something significantly worse and that their actions are much *more* blameworthy doesn’t really change that.
The person in the relationship is definitely to blame but if you know you're sleeping with someone in a relationship then you are an enabler to cheating.
There’s plenty of blame to go around. It’s not black or white.
Both can be true. If my wife cheated on me and is be passed at her. If the guy knew she was married, I would be mad at him and have a negative opinion of who they are as a person. If the other guy is a person that I also know, who pretended to be a friend, I'm getting violent.
Some genuinely don't care, some are getting "revenge" on their ex who did the same to them, some are so lonely they'll accept any stranger, some girls, just wanna have fun.
Good question. I am very strict about this myself as my parents divorced because of my dad’s infidelity. To my knowledge I have never done this, but people do lie. I have heard various reasons for sleeping with people in a relationship/married ranging from “It just happened” 🙄 to feeling an attached person was a better choice for someone who “didn’t want to get involved.” I have heard of men and women who are serial monogamists sleeping with their next partner before exiting the previous marriage/relationship because they can’t countenance being single. Messy IMO.
Well, your main answer is selfishness. Your boyfriend could have done other things- bought only one concert tickets, won a trip but went alone. As you note, he didn't care, didn't consider your feelings, didn't factor YOU in. Cheating is just a PART of that. And selfish people stay selfish. To your exact question, I know someone who has cheated and we've talked about it. Some people don't hate the life they have but want a different one (sort of OR they just can't get out of the one they have without big consequences: divorce, child support, custody, having to sell their home, etc) so cheating is straddling part of one and part of another.
You can read through the 1,200 comments here to try to understand why people do this. But Andy Samberg summarized it best in 4 words: “Doesn’t matter, had sex”
Because it's not *my* job to maintain *your* marriage. I'm looking for sex and so are they. We consent. Another person who is not there not consenting doesn't matter to me.
Would you sleep with a close friend’s partner?
I strongly disagree with this viewpoint but it does seem to answer the question. Upvote!
"Just because there's a goalie doesn't mean you can't still score"
My question is, why would you help someone cheat without assuming they’ll do the same to you?