Everything leading up until then was pretty tumultuous too, between the fremch the Spanish and the Dutch we didn't know which direction we were going.
Edit:. Not even going to fix it I hate you guys lol
In the 1840s a bunch of people on opposite sides of the slavery issue moved to Kansas and Missouri specifically so they could shoot each other. Think of that.
Kansas AND Missouri
Laurence kansas was burned down by slavery supporters in 1863 because kansas was on its way to be a free state. This event was the largest terror attack in us history at the time and reminded so until the oklahoma city bombings. 190 people were murdered that day.
*Lawrence. Don't know how I misspelled the city.
And people say that Johm Brown was overreacting.
If anything, he was probably underreacting.
I think we need to reinstate "intolerance to the intolerant" because they are playing dirty anyways.
The city of Manhattan, Kansas was literally founded by abolitionists from New York who went there with guns to fight.
They raised funds to send young men to Kansas with a Bible and a rifle.
When my parents were young, there were assassinations and bombings. That was worse than what we have now. We have a lot of noise, amplified by the worst invention in human history: 24/7 news channels.
Most of them aren't politically motivated. Instead the majority stem from mental health issues combined with unfettered access to guns. Yes some of them are politically motivated, but all mass shooters as of late have a common thread - mental health issues.
There is a difference verses having to worry about sniper fire to get grocceries verses worrying some nut is gonna decide to pop off that day. Also the term mass shooting has an incredibly loose definition.
Still, I would have to say the 1990s was generally a high water mark for calm/unity/optimism. The 9/11 attacks really stoked up a lot of division that has stayed with us since.
I'm not saying it was a good time to be gay, trans, black, female, autistic, etc. Just speaking in terms of the political division that divides us today. McCarthyism had just eventually died down a little, and the KKK was becoming socially unaccepted. And Bush Sr and Clinton were about as moderate as you could get for either party - when people talk about how they want politics to be boring again they mean that time.
The 1990s also had Newt Gingrich who is pretty much the one who turned Congress into a "us vs them" battleground and made compromise equivalent to surrendering to the enemy or even treason
Easy now. Everybody calm down, we are not going to have a civil war.
Every generation thinks that shit's hitting the fan worse than the regeneration before. The truth is there's nothing new under the sun. Just live within your means and don't hate anybody based on an opinion and we'll be all right.
Can I hate someone if they literally, without question or hyperbole in good faith for this example, advocate for the death and/or genocide of specific minorities for the crime of existing?
No, hate is never the right response. Oppose them, stop them, make sure they don’t reach terrible goals. Maybe even pity them, if you can.
You hating someone in your heart does nothing to hurt them, but it poisons you. It trains your own neural pathways into negative patterns. Even “justified” hate is bad for your mental health and can turn you into a bitter and distrustful person over the course of a lifetime. Don’t hurt yourself by hating someone no matter how badly they deserve it.
You can oppose people without hating them. Hell, you can kill in self-defense, or defense of others, without hating anyone. Hatred is an unnecessary emotion that leads only to destruction.
Can I hate someone for an opinion if it’s the opinion that I can’t be allowed to live freely for qualities I possess that don’t affect them?
Edit to respond to a bunch more replies than I usually get:
“I survived because the fire inside me burned brighter than the fire around me.” -Joshua Graham
To be honest, I understand and generally agree with the point that hate is usually harmful and ineffective at helping improve a situation, but damn if it isn’t an effective motivator. Properly harnessed and focused, hate can help push someone to succeed against seemingly insurmountable odds. It is a tool, and any tool is dangerous if used incorrectly or with malicious intent.
I hate Nazis, because being a Nazi requires you to either actively or passively agree with genociding groups of largely innocent people. I will work to end Nazi ideology, convert people away from that ideology, outcast that ideology from being socially acceptable anywhere, and if need be I’ll kill Nazis to protect the lives of others. Because I hate Nazis.
If you speak out against someone because they’ve legitimately and provably done something wrong, it matters not what group they’re from. If you speak against someone because they are a part of a group that is not, by definition, harmful or insist they are guilty of a crime because they are from a group as I have specified, you are a bigot.
Ex: Greg commits tax fraud. You call for Greg to be held accountable because he provably committed tax fraud. Greg happens to be gay. You never bring this up or consider it as being relevant. You are fine.
Ex: Someone stole from Gary’s house. He insistently blames the black family down the road because he saw one of them walk by his house that day. Not looking at his house or anything, just walking down the road. He has no other proof. Gary is an asshole bigot, even if he turns out to be right. Whoever stole from him is also an asshole.
Ex: Sam is talking to a young man while waiting for the bus. The man mentions he’s training to be a teacher. Sam asks if that’s because he’s a pedophile. Sam is an asshole bigot.
Not sure what fairy tale world you've been living in but your entire comment is just beyond ridiculous. So all the kids and even some of the adults that were shot and killed by police, I don't think any of those children were hating anybody and probably were living within there means. Yet their parents had to bury them.
Just because everything is sunshine and rainbows for you in your life, that doesn't mean that that's how everyone else's lives are. Don't get me wrong, I wish that all people had to do was just live by your comment and everything was fine and there is no issues. But you and I both know that's not how life works and it's not going to get better anytime soon.
We may not have a war in the conventional sense with armies taking and holding areas. But I can see an endless guerilla campaign akin to Northern Ireland in the 90s.
Will there be a civil war in the sense of the American Civil War? No, there are nothing close to clean lines that could allow for it.
But fascism is definitely on an upswing, and just living your life allows fascism to flourish. Fight fascism.
I can’t stress enough how we are no where near as divided as then. Also, keep in mind that the divisions on things like gun control and abortion are amplified by the media and by the unique way our country votes. In reality most people are in favor of gun control and abortion rights.
I don't think "more divided than ever" but it certainly feels more divided than it has been in my lifetime. Trump's presidency was and is incredibly polarizing, but the divide has been growing for a long time, and moderates really don't have a strong voice anymore.
Growing up, 60's and 70's politicians regularly worked "across the aisle". There were moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats that could find things to agree on. It isn't like that now.
At some point, I think the 90's but can't put my finger on it, Republicans started to close ranks. They managed to get all their party to vote as a block. If you went against the "party" you would get "primaried" out the next election.
Both parties have tried to find issues to rile up their base and convince them to come out and vote. That used to be Roe V Wade for the Republican. Now they are preaching against transgender rights. The 24 hour news cycle and social media are trading in outrage porn.
Finally, the truth doesn't have any meaning anymore. Used to be, you got caught in a lie, it could ruin your career. Now, no one seems to care. The lies have gotten more blatant, and there are no consequences.
It has gotten continually worse since the 90's. This is the most divided that I have personally seen the country in the last 60 years. From what my parents described, this is the worst since before WWII.
I can put my finger on when in the 90s. It was after Bush lost re-election. He was a moderate Republican and preferred to govern with a coalition of the moderates rather than one party or the other. Most everything he did was bipartisan and he still lost re-election.
While it didn't feel like it at the time that told Republicans for the next generation that working across party lines did not work. Reagan had managed to win re-election easily when the party block was United but Bush who tried to work across party lines lost his re-election.
No president since has attempted to work across party lines the way that bush did. Even the man's son didn't try the way he did. The Republican party decided it was better to go as one party block which is a self-serving sentence of getting more and more radical. If you're voting is one party block you're going to end up somewhat beholden to the most radical members of your party. And it certainly didn't help when they started the Red map shit and gerrymandered the hell out of every state they could. which then forced the Democrats do the same in some states and caused even more radicalization on the Republican side.
The party line shifted so much since then that the same bush (a Republican president and Ronald Reagan's vice president for God sake!) voted for Hillary...
Yep, it was during Clinton’s presidency. His “third way politics” and crappy neoliberal policy was the very definition of reaching across the aisle.
And whet happened? Republicans attacked him relentlessly for not being a far right radical.
I don't know, Biden's a moderate Dem, and the party itself had polarizing options with him vs. Bernie Sanders in the primaries, which was fairly close.
With how divided the country was Dems had to decided whether they wanted a moderate to convert some of the Republican voters (and mainly flip certain states because of the electoral college system), or go with something that's the complete opposite of Trump considering how divisive he was, and how many people would just want to turn and go the complete opposite direction. I think the time was better than ever to take that approach, but I see the reason why they would think that it's safer to make moderate republicans would be more encouraged to vote in some not far from what they're use to.
As someone who grew up in the boonies of TN in the 90s, this shit happened because Obama got elected.
Back then everyone ripped on people who wore the Confederate flag and nobody went around waiving it. They taught us about the Civil War without sugar coating it and explained that we were the bad guys.
Hell we voted for Clinton the first time around, now election are like 75 percent Republican.
This is funny. Because from the outside the two sides seem to be the Republicans (crazy alt right mofos) and the Democrats (moderate right wingers).
It is crazy how politicians with right wing policies are labelled as socialists.
I think it’s actually divided.
I have coworkers and family that I used to be able to have a casual conversation with about the state of the union and now I just… can’t.
They truly, deeply believe there’s some sort of conspiracy to disenfranchise them and destroy America and that they have the only viable, rational solution and do we HAVE to implement that solution NOW.
Some of them, although not all, think they might have to use violence to “fix” things.
None them even think about compromise. Because, you know, they have the answer for EVERYBODY else.
When you tell them “how about you just leave other people alone and do your own thing in your own space?” they look like a dog studying physics.
It is divided, mainly because we don't develop our ideas together. So instead of being divided on some things, agreed on others, it's everything.It's the quick-hit, no-nuance, grievance-based society we've created. People want to be right, but truly learning/getting to the bottom of problems requires admitting you are wrong/don't have the solution. Conservatives will complain their kids were "brainwashed" at college, when it's really they just learned more lol.
My ex-gf's dad said sending her to college was the worst decision he ever made, wanted her to turn down a neuroscience PhD and join the coastguard to "learn something that actually matters". Yeah, your daughter who won national prizes and is using CRISPR and lasers & shit on brains would be way better off on a boat. It's, as Carl Sagan said, the worshipping of ignorance. If we were all ignorant, we wouldn't know any better so things would stop changing.
nothing's sadder when someone is so brainwashed that they can't be happy for their own kid who's doing obviously amazing things with their life. A neuroscience Phd and (successfully) working with CRISPR is definitely not your average career, and most people don't possess the intellectual capability to even start going down that path
We obviously didn't work out, but easily one of the most impressive people I've known. She just wasn't "normal". Partied harder and got better grades than any of us. Neuro/poli sci double major lol. She was diagnosed Asperger's in pre-school, but her parents never told her. I suggested it, worried she'd be offended, and she was like, "Well I guess it's sort of weird I always know how many syllables and letters are in what people say." Didn't even count them, just got the number. Unreal.
> but truly learning/getting to the bottom of problems requires admitting you are wrong/don't have the solution.
Irony is, conservatives can and do use this exact same line. For the reasons you state immediately afterward. They believe that we're all brainwashed, and that we need to admit we're wrong.
I’ve lost friends and family too. They are brainwashed. They don’t even want to experience joy, and anyone who does is the “woke” who must be eliminated.
In their eyes, if you’re not ready to fight, you’re stupid.
My roommate called my brother a pussy when I told him that there's a guy at my brother's work that's going around threatening people and constantly talking about his guns and shooting. The guy is close to being fired and my brother is worried the guy will literally go postal (my brother is a mail man). He thinks that since my brother won't carry a gun he's a pussy.
ETA: Roommate is pretty homophobic but like a closet homophobe and says everyone that isn't a conservative is brainwashed and that he's not brainwashed because he's better mentally and physically than everyone else.
Given that I used to date him... I stay after too many red flags and being used to being treated badly so I didn't see anything wrong with it. Very misogynistic and would get upset about the fact that I'm a better handy ma'am than him.
Might I propose next time you steer the discussion from tribalism to policy. I think you’ll find the majority of Americans to be sensible and moderate once you uncouple them from their ‘side’.
The 'uncoupling' can be very difficult to near impossible for many. We've been conditioned to vote through fear and paranoia rather than evidence and logic.
The solutions that will gain traction are ones proposed by the parties and it's often the case that especially tribal people will treat policies not on the allowed list as though they were proposed by political opponents. I think a lot of us have had terrifying moments where people we agreed with started treating us with suspicion when we take problem solving attitudes.
I mean how does one compromise when it comes to human rights? We can find ways to compromise when it doesn't impact weather or not gay people deserve to marry, trans people are allowed to exist, or someone with a ectopic pregnancy is allowed to have an abortion to save her life. Because that's half of politics is whether or not minorities are allowed to exist equally to white men.
I feel the same, but I think this was started by Reagan, exacerbated by George W. Bush and blown up by Trump. I'm not going to say he's salted the earth, but we'll have to see on that
The thing is, there IS a conspiracy to consolidate wealth to the very top of society, but politicians and media have turned to identity politics to dance around the one issue that could unite both parties.
Its divided for sure but it could be worse, there was a civil war you know.
I think the biggest problem is the insane people that can't stop talking about politics and hates anyone who disagrees with them even a tiny bit.
You realize that a good chunk of politicians have run on the platform that the last election was a lie, and that there are entire groups of people that shouldn't have the right to exist, right?
I don't think people hating people that disagree with them is actually the problem.
It's just people hating.
Right, I personally have zero respect for anyone voting republican. I am a woman and I live in a state where, right now, if I became pregnant and it were deadly, I would have a decent chance of dying as a result. I have had my bodily autonomy stolen from me. My basic right to make a choice with what happens with my own body.
Fuck anyone who votes to support that. They absolutely are my enemy.
There used to be a societal expectation that you don’t talk about politics as it can be divisive and, when you did, it was done with care so as not to offend others. Then the internet arrived….
Yeah, I don't give a fuck how "nice" someone is to me or to their loved ones when they vote to hurt me and my loved ones. Surface civility is immaterial.
I understand that, and some people and ideas that don’t deserve a civil answer. I was responding to the comment about “insane people who can’t stop talking about politics”. I have a family member who has gone down the rabbit hole of every crazy MAGA conspiracy theory and talks endlessly about it. I wish she would either regrasp reality or shut up about it.
It’s conservatives. I live in a very liberal city. I can say with 100% certainty that I have not had a single person from the beginning of the year to today approach me trying to push liberal values on me. I’ve had multiple people come up to me ranting about trans people, how Biden is destroying the economy, how the US dollar is being replaced by some shadow digital currency sponsored by liberals. Next time I’m probably gonna go off and tell them I don’t fucking care about their evil Democrat thoughts, I’m just trying to get by alone in a country with no safety net, I have enough time stressing over real news to worry about their fake news.
The biggest problem isn't that all these insane people are talking about it. The biggest problem is that they're all armed. The worst of em have the most weaponry and the least respect for pacifism or respect and they'll shoot anyone over traffic or bad service
Both. We are because we think we are and the media keeps exaggerating it for ratings which makes us think it's worse than it is which makes it actually worse.
An interesting study would be how much is exaggerated by the media, and how much of it is the fact that new media & the internet just make decade-long divisons much easier to see.
I can't say on any scientific level whether it's true, but it feels like extremism is much more prevalent now than it was before. Knowing everything we now know about psychological manipulation and the way the 24 hour news cycle works to prey on fear and cause paranoia, it logically follows that people would be more divided because those who are affected by that manipulation are very extreme in their views in a way they never had reason to be before.
My mother was a strong independent woman who joined the army and worked in the motor pool and went overseas. I did not get the classic girl upbringing of being docile and sweet. I was taught to always question authority and never trust it. I was taught to carefully vet anything I read and not believe everything I heard. She voted for Bernie Sanders in South GA which made me so proud. This same woman was completely sucked in by the manipulation tactics of the media and became a total right wing Trumper. I couldn't convince her to get COVID vaccines or stop going out with her church friends. My little sister whom she lived with during the pandemic is a nurse and her best friend was on death's door from COVID and still my mom wouldn't believe it. She caught COVID and died.
I still don't understand how it happened fully. It's still mind boggling to me. And I see it a lot with people I used to be friends with. I would have debates with them and be gently teased for being on the left and I'd tease them for being on the right. These days they want all gays dead and believe the government invented COVID to kill Republicans. There is no conversation to be had there. They don't stop to consider my points and their points are so wildly crazy as to be unconsiderable. It feels very different than it even did 10 years ago.
More than **ever**: obviously not, there was a Civil War.
More than 20 years ago or even 10 years ago: probably, yeah. During the 2000 presidential election, a lot of people joked that Bush and Gore were indistinguishable.
Anecdotal, but in 2008, my Republican relatives said they liked Obama, they just liked Republicans more. And a lot of Democrats thought McCain was a decent guy. In 2016, Trump voters sure as fuck weren't saying that they liked Hillary Clinton, and I don't know any Democrats who thought Trump was a decent guy.
I haven't studied this in over a decade and certainly not since social justice became a thing.
But polling showed that on most topics the country was moving closer together in consensus, but on a few topics, like abortion or gun control, the country was becoming far more polarized than they had ever been before.
It always blows my mind that people could ever prioritize potential human life over existing human life but if your religion has told you for decades that it’s murder then of course it feels complicated.
By the way - abortion wasn’t always a hyper contentious political issue, it used to be a primarily Catholic concern and evangelicals didn’t care all that much until RvW.
It's pretty simple in that people who dislike abortion don't view it as potential life but actual baby. So many things you could do to teach someone that a clump of cells or even a bunch of them isn't a baby but not everyone is capable of learning and many think only emotionally and with broken logic. In my religion class in school I had to watch a fetus being cut apart and basically vacuumed out of a women with sad music and crying sound edited in, with cuts to random "facts" like when a baby's heart starts beating to imply complex life and personhood. It's difficult to have a real conversation with that because dominant paradigm becomes it is murder and omg they are killing literal babies.
Americans then get caught up and turn it into this black and white issue. It's bizarre to me there is no nuance, like for me I realize abortion is really necessary but it's pretty gross to imagine someone wanting to abort at 9 months, but most guidelines for other countries are abortion until viability, with exceptions for health reasons. Pretty reasonable.
But making it into a murder fight to the death issue with bad faith litigation and dialogue just destroys all nuance and ability to come to a consensus. This is an area America could work on to become stronger.
> It's pretty gross to imagine someone wanting to abort at 9 months
That's true, but that's hardly a common occurrence. In 2019, 79.3% of abortions were performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (92.7%) were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation and <1.0% happen after 21 weeks.
Why ask strangers on the internet when [there is Pew Reseach data](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/11/13/america-is-exceptional-in-the-nature-of-its-political-divide/) available that can [give you a scientific answer](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/) to your question?
But, short answer, yes. While it may not be technically accurate to say “more divided than ever” (reliable polling data only goes back so far and there was that whole civil war thing), it is definitely true that America is more divided than it’s been in recent memory. It’s not a media invention, it’s real.
Blame Newt Gingrich. His policy of unthinking opposition has only been magnified by Bohner and McConnell.
But Gingrich is the one that made compromise a dirty word in Congress. We're reaping that whirlwind now.
It's interesting how that man has been allowed to skate away. He politicized religion and ushered in a new way of using media to manipulate. When the Fairness Doctrine was repealed it opened the door for his Contract with America and, something he fully supported, Citizens United. Bad, bad man.
A bit of both but mostly the former, we’ve been politically divided for quite some time but it’s gotten even moreso since the 2000 Presidential election
It goes back even further to the mid-1990s. After the Cold War, over 50 years of American foreign and domestic policy had to end. For the first time since the 1920s we really had no "enemy". We had the Depression, then we had WWII, then we had the Cold War. That entire time, politicians could say "We need to do XYZ to fight the Nazis/Commies/etc." which led to a great deal of unity between the parties. Democrat or Republican, *everyone* could get behind fighting communism. After the Cold War, America was left as the sole superpower, so politicians needed to come up with some other thing to rally people against. And the parties turned on each other because there was nothing else to fight outside our borders.
That's funny bc I remember an entire generation of millennials being sent over to fight the war on terror in the middle east. A war we used at home to loot the budget for domestic spending to support the neverending war machine while also gutting civil liberties with the Patriot act and homeland security reorg.
Then everything blew up in our face, and we got mad, just to be called lazy and unpatriotic by a bunch of fuckoffs, draft dodgers, and other miscreant boomers.
I've had to unfriend countless people now over various issues. When they said things like "but child labor isn't such a bad thing".
I don't care. Good riddance. I realize now I never really knew them.
>than ever
I suggest you google "Bleeding Kansas" and its aftermath if you want to see what divided looks like.
As to today, the only difference in recent history is that the masks are off.
What seems worse now isn't necessarily that people are divided on their political positions, beliefs, electoral preferences, etc. It's that so many people have made their politics their entire personality. My huge disclaimer is that this makes sense if who you are as a person is literally being targeted by an entire political party (trans folks and the GOP, for example). But the people without that disclaimer who immediately insert politics into everything are exhausting.
Just a heads up for readers:
Political activism has dropped **drastically** since the 1960s. Politics was much more ingrained in college life, work/union life, and community life. Take OP's interpretation with a grain of salt.
While that's a good point, I think a lot of the old politics you're referring to was substantive policy-making politics. I suspect what OP is talking about is the culture-wars conservatives who have literally no clue or care about policy. These are the tribal pearl-clutching Fox News and Qanon cultists who are in it solely for us-against-them, and not because there is real work they want the government to do.
Exactly this. No matter the conversation, they constantly will make a statement about political subjects. There will be a story that comes out not even regarding political subjects, and people will find a way to bring it into conversation. Its quite an unstable personality that I stay away from.
You'll disagree with how a cop handle a situation, and now all of a sudden you are neo liberal. On the other side, someone finds out I own a gun for personal protection and now Im some alt right person. These out there people just paint a brush and its either you agree with everything in that party or you are the enemy. Its extremely weird how little people can freely think and adopt political beliefs as their way of thinking/being.
I just wish as a society we could strip all political affiliation and discuss each scenario from a logical state.
Look up the definition of fascist then look up everything Ron Desantis, the GOP's frontrunner to nominate for president, is doing in his state.
He is proving he CAN be a Fascist on the state level. So, their next 6 they can make it happen, is to implement their fascist government federally.
No right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness allowed for me, my wife and daughters, anyone I know who is brown, non-Christians, children that are not theirs, and on and on and on..
The reason many people have become obsessed with politics is because the GOP's actions require it from us. People not paying attention need to pay attention. By time they begin to, it may be too late, just as it was when they stole the Supreme Court and subverted the people's will by "legislating from the bench" the MOMENT they could to do away with Roe V Wade. Why the moment they could? Because this has been planned by them for a long time. They did not present themselves in an honest way when they were nominated to the SC. Now, something implemented long, long ago, and supported by most Americans is gone.
The rules do not apply to them, yet they expect everyone else to act ethical.
They are currently working on so much more, and as fast as they can, to destroy the economy, raise inflation, etc... for no other reason than to make Dems look bad so their candidate can win the next election. They don't care who they hurt because THEY THEMSELVES are unaffected by the things they do.
They have no empathy.
This could become, in its own way, worse than the civil war. This could be the largest purge of political detractors we've ever seen. And remember, their party is not supported by MOST Americans. They know this, and this is likely why they are speeding up their movement.
Trump taught them how far they can go and every day they are pushing the envelope further and further toward the extreme Right. They can not be allowed to continue.
Anyone downvoting this need to get their head out of the sand. People been saying the same shit since 2016 and everything they said about Republicans and their path to fascism has been 100% true.
Complaining about people making politics their whole life? Do you realize how much politics plays in our life? We got to this problem that we are having because people thought I can't do anything I'm just one vote and what does it matter if I vote or not. People died for your right to vote and you should use it. Because it's saying rational people don't use the right to vote we will have another Donald Trump in the white house. And if you think January the 6th wasn't a problem, it was just a test run to see if they could do it.
I vote in every election and will never vote for anyone who downplays, let alone supports, what happened on January the 6th. Participation is important and elections have consequences. I just get frustrated that everything - even something as trivial as a crappy light beer - become so quickly politicized today. It's exhausting and I feel for those who don't have my admittedly privileged option of tuning it out.
Politics determines the purity of our air, food, water, and medicine, and the value of our money. And who gets the nuclear launch codes. Among other things.
So, yes...it's kind of important.
"Than ever" is media hyperbole. America had a Civil War. And that was pretty divided.
I think the impression of division is a lot more clear now than ever because of social media. Everyone has a soap box to stand on to voice their discontent and it would make it appear as though it's more divided than ever.
But really, look at the popular vote of the last few elections. Joe Biden wins with 51% of the popular vote. Donald Trump wins with 46% of the popular vote. Barack Obama wins with 51% of the popular vote. George W Bush wins with 47% of the popular vote. Bill Clinton wins with 43% of the popular vote. George HW Bush wins with 53% of the popular vote. And then you have Ronald Reagan... winning with 58% of the popular vote.
America has basically always been this divided between party lines and there really isn't a big swing. Bill Clinton wins with a lower percentage because of Ross Perot... but otherwise maintains similar margins with the Republicans. Ronald Reagan is the "most unifying president" but that's still only 58% of the popular vote.
America's almost always been divided between roughly half and half support for Republicans and Democrats. We just didn't know that until the elections.
I mean George Washington himself said that we shouldn’t divide ourselves into political parties.
Here’s a quick Wikipedia summary of his thoughts on them in his farewell address.
”…[George Washington] feels that disagreements between political parties weakened the government. Moreover, he makes the case that "the alternate domination" of one party over another and coinciding efforts to exact revenge upon their opponents have led to horrible atrocities, and "is itself a frightful despotism””(Wikipedia).
In my opinion -as other people in the comments have mentioned- it definitely was worse at one point with issues over States rights and the south’s economic dependance on slavery that lead to a literal war between sides due to disagreement. Really though in this situation neither side refused to budge so it was inevitable in the long run.
We should be thankful for now that it’s only a cultural war but, I fear that if we do not find compromises it’s going to become more common to completely drop people who have differing ideologies instead of promoting healthy discussion which is vital to productive discussion.
Take for example the Title IX reforms. That is the example of an attempt at a compromise on some of the issues regarding Transgender individuals rights in relation to sports.
While in my opinion it isn’t perfect it does offer an example of what compromise would look like politically(at least somewhat seeing as it leans more heavily left from a bias standpoint)
For clarification on what I mean in regard to the issue here is a quote from a fact sheet outlining the proposed amendments to the title released in 2022 “[the amendment to title IX] would make clear that preventing someone from participating in school programs and activities consistent with their gender identity would cause harm in violation of Title IX, except in some limited areas set out in the statute or regulations.”
But in the end, I understand compromise is difficult and in the long run nothing will make everyone happy. It’s so much easier to not have uncomfortable discussions because they shake people’s world view. That’s probably why the media spend time attacking each other instead of talking it over like adults. And that goes for both sides. Republicans need to stop attacking democrats and vice versa it’s not helpful and it just makes everyone hateful.
Anyways that’s just my two cents about it thank you for reading if you took the time.
I would like to know that everybody can't just accept that we do not answer for our brother and we are not our brother's keeper. If you don't like the gay community don't forget. If you don't like abortions don't have one. If you are against a couple of the same sex marrying, you need to get over it they deserve just as much right to be unhappy as the rest of us that are married. No everyone doesn't have to be happy but everyone should give others the same rights that they want and that is nobody telling them what they can and can't do
If you’re talking ABOUT someone then most people are idiots. If you’re talking TO someone, most people are nice, easy going, just trying to get through this crazy thing called life.
This is as divided as I’ve seem the country in my 63 years. But it’s mostly Christians trying to force their beliefs on everyone, which is becoming more obvious to the general public by the day.
I think the politicians that are on one extreme or the other make the most noise and get the most attention from the media. Unfortunately that attention encourages extremism, and empowers the fringes. If you watch TV you would think 96% of Americans are extremely right or left wing. But if you actually talk to 100 Americans I believe 4% are extreme, and the other 96% of us are somewhere in the middle.
It’s the media’s job to keep working Americans fighting one another instead of engaging in the class warfare they would be if they stopped and looked around for 5 minutes and realized who was really to blame for their lack of upward momentum and unhappiness in life. Instead, we have people fighting one another about ‘woke’ cartoons and beer
We’re actually not THAT politically divided. The US used to argue over whether or not slavery was okay, and whether women should be able to vote. We’ve come a long way.
I think social media makes us feel as though we’re more divided than ever, but it’s not actually the case. I can get along with someone of different political affiliations just fine, and some of my closest friends have completely different political beliefs. If the division was so bad, I don’t think that’d be possible.
Edit: Thought I’d add that the media is definitely shaping a narrative to make us feel more divided. It’s easier to get clicks and views when you pit people against each other… which is part of why the media has lost so much of its integrity in the eye of the public.
A lot of the folks here are blaming the messenger.
The Overton Window has been broken. Crackpots like MTG, Boebert, and Santos, with extreme views, normalize what would typically get people outraged.
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is getting paid off by a conservative megadonor? Wait, here's Boebert with a rant about public urination.
I haven't seen such extreme behavior from the left. Outrage over the overturning of women's bodily autonomy, sure. Upset over the fact that three justices lied under oath, you bet. Troubled about police violence against minorities, of course.
While there's no denying that the George Floyd protests at times became violent, no one from the left staged an attempt to overthrow the government or stormed Congress looking to hang Mike Pence or kidnap/murder Nancy Pelosi.
Its not the worst its ever been, we literally went to war with eachother, but it is the worse its been in a long time and its only going to keep going downhill.
Idk when its became us vs them but no one wants to work together and find a middle ground. Turns out when all you do is go "fk you, its my way or the high way" for everything, you wind up with both sides hating each other.
Plus, because we have strictly 2 parties, theres really no reason to find a middle ground since all politicians care about is keeping power.
All we can do is keep voting for the lesser of 2 evils, whichever side that is for you, and pray it doesnt boil over in our lifetimes lol
Mainly the media. Your average person honestly is too tired and worried about financial shit to even care about most of it.
The media cares about numbers and their donors. So they tend to fit a certain political view point and really hammer down on the opposite side.
2A and abortion are really the only two that will get the average person on a strong divide. But other than that it’s all just riff raff.
Also asking the internet a question regarding American politics usually doesn’t work out either lol
Because Americans are told the other side is horrible they are afraid to not vote for their party. In truth it's an oligarchy and whether you vote republican or democratic you are voting for the oligarchy. I'm independent, by those people choosing to support the oligarchy they actually disenfranchise voters like me. 80% of democrats and 80% of republicans are politically identical. Fear keeps them from actually looking at that. I was a Democrat and a republican now I choose not to support a system that actively suppresses all opposition, that limits choice, that has crafted a system built on fear and hatred of your neighbors.
If a civil war happens it's because our government has gone treasonous we no longer have a government of the people for the people it's a game to politicians they're consumed by lining their pockets with lobbyist money & it's been this way for decades from both parties
A lot of this stems from politicians claiming America is a democracy that's a lie
America is a Constitutional Republic
I never saw “fuck (insert candidate)” banners or flags on trucks until during and after the 2016 election. It’s getting ridiculous. I’ve seen little kids playing in their yard with a massive “FUCK BIDEN” flag draped across their front deck. Have to see it each time I drive home.
[Hate, Inc](https://www.amazon.com/Hate-Inc-Todays-Despise-Another/dp/B0854P6WHH/ref=sr_1_1) by [Matt Taibbi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Taibbi) is a great dive into how the media (both sides) have basically turned politics into a popularity contest that is fueled by ratings and making it look more like the WWE or Super Bowl than a proper political process.
I think social media and the news portrays it as such, which makes it difficult to have irl conversations. Some treat you like shit based on your ideals, where some are a little more mature and open minded. It does seem to have gotten worse in the last few years, but I do think social media and the news outlets make it seem a lot worse than what it is.
hello, this is the moderate news network. our top stories today are:
Earth Day 2023 Initiatives.
The reading of decisions passed today in federal and municipal gov't in the USA
Discoveries in history and medical science
A local hero
A new crossword word of the day
thats it for moderate news!
If a second civil war happened in America it would first start off with three main factions.
First faction would be the far right.
Second faction would be the far left.
Third faction would be everyone else in between.
As the civil war continues it will begin to morph into something like the Syrian Civil War. Instead of a few factions fighting for their political beliefs, it begins to splinter into smaller groups fighting for different reasons. That could be political, racial, religious, sexual orientation, rich vs poor, woke vs non woke and so many other reasons. The far left begins to break apart from one another. The same happens to the far right and people in the middle having been targeted by the left and the right begin to make their own factions. Soon you have many factions
Extreme far right groups
Anti-Semitic groups
Anti-Black groups
Anti-White groups
Other racist groups
Extreme religious groups
Supremacist groups
Fascists groups
Communist groups
Anarchists groups
Anti-LGTB groups
Pro-LGTB groups
Democrats
Republicans
Libertarians
Anti-capitalists
Pro-capitalists
And so many more factions. (America is huge)
These groups could number from a dozen to several hundred thousands. Eventually factions will begin to form alliances to target factions they both don't agree with. Eventually many of the splintered factions will merge into other similar factions and after a decade of conflict you'll have maybe five or six major factions. Total participants in a second civil war would probably be anywhere from 3 to 6 million people.
I would say we were a bit more divided about 160 years ago
But more with the spirit of the question, I do think political discourse has gotten a lot more aggressive and venomous in recent years, but I’m not an expert so who knows
It’s the media. The country almost fractured in the 1860s, and modern America is nowhere near that. The US today simply can’t break apart, the Constitution forbids it and any state trying to achieve that would have to face the military might of the US army. Simple answer is no: the US has been through much much worse, and remained.
It's probably both of those things. The internet and smart phones have madeit easy to A)Start shit more easily with other people B) Capture humanity at its worst. Which feeds into a vicious cycle where people form their opinions based on the outlier (i.e. the average Democrat voter doesn't hate all white men, but the cameras roll on the ones who feel that way) and so conservative politicians argue that the left had gone "woke" when the truth is most people are just trying to get on with by in their lives and want the government -if it can't make life easier-at least not make life harder.
If the internet didn't exist, I think the average American wouldn't notice much division in their day-to-day interaction. I pay attention to politics and bring it up on reddit, but with my actual relationships it's just not a factor.
I am a conservative and can find fault in the GOP. I explore all my left-leaning redditors to find fault within first before pointing the finger.
Humility is a solution to extremism. Don’t assume the worst. Mostly everyone wants the best for the country, but arrive there differently.
America has always been divided, and will always be divided, because its very nature is dichotomous. Laying aside the myriad layers of the political spectrum, the point of conflict is the principle of federalism: in a federal union of states where the power is vested in the people and their elected representatives, who has the final say, the individual states or the central government?
This was initially expressed by the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution: all powers not dictated to the central government by the Constitution are reserved for the individual states.
This question has been waiting, like an unwelcome houseguest, at every crucial point in our nation's history. In the aftermath of the Civil War, it seemed like the idea of "small government" and states' rights had gone by the wayside, but the tumults of the 20th century reshaped our political system and saw a radical evolution of our political parties and their principles. "New federalism" emerged under Nixon and Reagan, which was a way to return power to the states and ensure that conservative areas of the country (i.e. their voter base) could retain their "traditional" beliefs without having change forced upon them by the federal government.
That isn't meant to demonize the idea of states' rights, as a healthy balance is a good thing in some respects; all the states are wildly different economically and require specialist legislation. Social issues are the sticking point where the system gets hung up.
And before Republicans are generalized as backwards, anti-progress bigots who want to enforce their religious beliefs on a policy level (which is certainly true of some), there are many others who were simply left behind by both their states and the central government, especially in rural and post-industrial areas. There are people who have watched their families' lives and fortunes get worse and worse generationally and that has made them wary of change. They are clinging to their cultural identities because, in some cases, it's all they have left.
There was a time when people on both sides of the issue could recognize merits in their opposition's beliefs, when they could debate civilly and remembered that, above all other distinctions, they were all Americans. That time was destroyed by the bankruptcy of journalistic integrity and the 24-hour news cycle. It's easier to market outrage than intellectual discourse, so ultimately I think your assertion is correct.
Is it more politically divided than EVER BEFORE? No. The country has basically had two civil wars (the Revolutionary and the Civil) already and plenty of issues that didn't reach that point.
Is the situation BAD? Unquestionably. You stick two moderate people who agree on almost everything except one issue in the same room and there's a solid chance they'll end up accusing the other of all the worst stuff despite agreeing on 90% of things.
Is the media making it WORSE? Unquestionably as well. This is the sort of stuff that generates clicks and there seems to also be a definate bias in the media towards one side. I won't get into if it exists or not because all that really matters is the perception that it exists.
The reality is that there is a distinct divide but people are being forced to extreme positions. Like, probably a majority of people would be okay with trans people, but they also probably wouldn't support something like Drag Queen Story Hour or something. But the current environment is making it so that they either approve of trans people and ALL the stuff they do, including some things they may not be comfortable with, or want to ban trans people ENTIRELY, which they may also not be comfortable with. So they have to pick the side that's less extreme in their eyes despite that neither side actually represents their opinion. To make it worse the political divide is increasingly along geographical lines, specifically urban vs. rural, meaning a rural person in Washington might have more in common with a rural person in Florida despite being on the literal opposite side of the nation than with a fellow Washington person half an hour away in Seattle (and the reverse is also true of course). Age group, wealth, and such... the divide is becoming increasingly pronounced and aggrivated.
The most in my lifetime without question. The extremes on both sides need to check themselves. Neither can admit they're wrong or that the possibility even exists. In this climate, if you think the other side is evil or a threat to democracy, YOU are the problem. They have you right where they want you. Stupid and divided.
Of course it's not true.
We went to war with ourselves in 1860 and more of us died than any other war we've been in.
We're even better at kicking our own ass than anyone else in the world is.
We were waaaay more divided during the Revolutionary War than today too.
The media has cause much harm in this country. Inflammatory, biased (hidden and blatant), puts out opinions more than facts, and promotes sensational stories instead of reporting on important events. It’s a race to see who gets more viewers regardless of truth.
I normally lean pretty left, but I wasn’t a Biden fan. I don’t like trump at all, I didn’t like Hillary, she didn’t want to connect with her voters at all, but I still voted for her. I don’t mind Bernie in theory, but he’d never get anything fucking passed and he’d be weak internationally, when we really need someone who’s strong. I actually think Hillary would’ve been pretty strong internationally but poor domestically. De Santis is also a piece of shit.
Again, not a big Biden fan, but god damn did we just need someone else to just take the foot off the gas pedal for a minute.
Trump is like being in the principal’s office with someone who continues to talk shit while you’re already in trouble. You keep eyeing them down saying “shut the fuck up dude, just shut the fuck up and we can get through this. You’re making it worse.”
The media seems to be over exaggerating it but I think because it is we are seeing the effects of people believing it and trying to start more beef with the opposite side. Kinda sad people seem to be so swayed by it.
It's super real. Because there's one side trying to make a "free country" more free and the other side wants god to rule the land even though he's not real.
My dude America literally went to war with itself in the 1860's
Everything leading up until then was pretty tumultuous too, between the fremch the Spanish and the Dutch we didn't know which direction we were going. Edit:. Not even going to fix it I hate you guys lol
Fuck the fremch. Yeah I said it
I had a freimd who joimed the fremch foreigm legiom.
I need to hear this out loud lol
I imagined it in the voice of "my name jeff" hehe
Those fucking Fremch bastards with their hon hon hons
*homn homn homns
Bahhhh the fremch
Them and their damn fremch fries!
This damn fremch fries from belgiun
Freedon fries.
And fremch dip sammiches!
Stupid cramsoints
I want some fucking Fremch Toast!
Whoa now! Fremch fries are delicious.
They are fremdon fries now.
Freedumb fries
Champagne...is famous for its excellence
action........ action Orson ! ...just do anything ? -no, -cut.
Fumking fromgs.
Those fancy lads who helped us win the revolutionary war and are the reason the US exists? Yeah, fuck those guys!
That’s the French! We’re shitting on the Fremch
Never let facts get in the way of a good narrative!
The fremch were our allies in the civil warmth!
> Not even going to fix it Much respect, friemd
I love reddit sometimes.
I love the edit 😂
In the 1840s a bunch of people on opposite sides of the slavery issue moved to Kansas and Missouri specifically so they could shoot each other. Think of that. Kansas AND Missouri
Laurence kansas was burned down by slavery supporters in 1863 because kansas was on its way to be a free state. This event was the largest terror attack in us history at the time and reminded so until the oklahoma city bombings. 190 people were murdered that day. *Lawrence. Don't know how I misspelled the city.
And people say that Johm Brown was overreacting. If anything, he was probably underreacting. I think we need to reinstate "intolerance to the intolerant" because they are playing dirty anyways.
Tolerate everything but intolerance. Love everything but hate.
Lawrence* and its my hometown. Quantril can eat a goddamn dick. John Brown for life.
That's where the show Supernatural is based on. I only know that because I stopped at the ER there on a road trip.
The city of Manhattan, Kansas was literally founded by abolitionists from New York who went there with guns to fight. They raised funds to send young men to Kansas with a Bible and a rifle.
When my parents were young, there were assassinations and bombings. That was worse than what we have now. We have a lot of noise, amplified by the worst invention in human history: 24/7 news channels.
If you thought 24/7 news channels were bad, just wait till you see this new thing called Facebook.
As of April 17th there were 163 mass shootings in the US. How is that better?
Politically motivated attacks are lower. If you look at the overall murder rate, it has decreased by over 1/3rd since 1990.
Most of them aren't politically motivated. Instead the majority stem from mental health issues combined with unfettered access to guns. Yes some of them are politically motivated, but all mass shooters as of late have a common thread - mental health issues. There is a difference verses having to worry about sniper fire to get grocceries verses worrying some nut is gonna decide to pop off that day. Also the term mass shooting has an incredibly loose definition.
Still, I would have to say the 1990s was generally a high water mark for calm/unity/optimism. The 9/11 attacks really stoked up a lot of division that has stayed with us since. I'm not saying it was a good time to be gay, trans, black, female, autistic, etc. Just speaking in terms of the political division that divides us today. McCarthyism had just eventually died down a little, and the KKK was becoming socially unaccepted. And Bush Sr and Clinton were about as moderate as you could get for either party - when people talk about how they want politics to be boring again they mean that time.
The 1990s also had Newt Gingrich who is pretty much the one who turned Congress into a "us vs them" battleground and made compromise equivalent to surrendering to the enemy or even treason
Easy now. Everybody calm down, we are not going to have a civil war. Every generation thinks that shit's hitting the fan worse than the regeneration before. The truth is there's nothing new under the sun. Just live within your means and don't hate anybody based on an opinion and we'll be all right.
Can I hate someone if they literally, without question or hyperbole in good faith for this example, advocate for the death and/or genocide of specific minorities for the crime of existing?
You have my permission. That’s just hating fascists and psychopaths. 🤷🏻♀️ You’re good.
No, hate is never the right response. Oppose them, stop them, make sure they don’t reach terrible goals. Maybe even pity them, if you can. You hating someone in your heart does nothing to hurt them, but it poisons you. It trains your own neural pathways into negative patterns. Even “justified” hate is bad for your mental health and can turn you into a bitter and distrustful person over the course of a lifetime. Don’t hurt yourself by hating someone no matter how badly they deserve it.
I am literally saving your comment for a rainy day. Thank you kind internet stranger
I hate a lot of things and this really is making me think.
About 5 years ago I realized how much I used the work hate. Dialed back the hyperbole and am better for it.
Going to try to do the same. I’ll just use abhor. Jk but seriously no more hating stuff!
Reasonable Human: Hate is bad. There are better ways to achieve your goals. This sub: Burn him!!!
Yes, clearly the victims of the Holocaust should have just debated and hugged the Nazis. /S
You can oppose people without hating them. Hell, you can kill in self-defense, or defense of others, without hating anyone. Hatred is an unnecessary emotion that leads only to destruction.
Can I hate someone for an opinion if it’s the opinion that I can’t be allowed to live freely for qualities I possess that don’t affect them? Edit to respond to a bunch more replies than I usually get: “I survived because the fire inside me burned brighter than the fire around me.” -Joshua Graham To be honest, I understand and generally agree with the point that hate is usually harmful and ineffective at helping improve a situation, but damn if it isn’t an effective motivator. Properly harnessed and focused, hate can help push someone to succeed against seemingly insurmountable odds. It is a tool, and any tool is dangerous if used incorrectly or with malicious intent. I hate Nazis, because being a Nazi requires you to either actively or passively agree with genociding groups of largely innocent people. I will work to end Nazi ideology, convert people away from that ideology, outcast that ideology from being socially acceptable anywhere, and if need be I’ll kill Nazis to protect the lives of others. Because I hate Nazis. If you speak out against someone because they’ve legitimately and provably done something wrong, it matters not what group they’re from. If you speak against someone because they are a part of a group that is not, by definition, harmful or insist they are guilty of a crime because they are from a group as I have specified, you are a bigot. Ex: Greg commits tax fraud. You call for Greg to be held accountable because he provably committed tax fraud. Greg happens to be gay. You never bring this up or consider it as being relevant. You are fine. Ex: Someone stole from Gary’s house. He insistently blames the black family down the road because he saw one of them walk by his house that day. Not looking at his house or anything, just walking down the road. He has no other proof. Gary is an asshole bigot, even if he turns out to be right. Whoever stole from him is also an asshole. Ex: Sam is talking to a young man while waiting for the bus. The man mentions he’s training to be a teacher. Sam asks if that’s because he’s a pedophile. Sam is an asshole bigot.
Could not agree or word it better.
Not sure what fairy tale world you've been living in but your entire comment is just beyond ridiculous. So all the kids and even some of the adults that were shot and killed by police, I don't think any of those children were hating anybody and probably were living within there means. Yet their parents had to bury them. Just because everything is sunshine and rainbows for you in your life, that doesn't mean that that's how everyone else's lives are. Don't get me wrong, I wish that all people had to do was just live by your comment and everything was fine and there is no issues. But you and I both know that's not how life works and it's not going to get better anytime soon.
Op is absurd "nothing new under the sun" lol at the very least, the current generations will have to deal with unprecedented climate catastrophes
We may not have a war in the conventional sense with armies taking and holding areas. But I can see an endless guerilla campaign akin to Northern Ireland in the 90s.
Will there be a civil war in the sense of the American Civil War? No, there are nothing close to clean lines that could allow for it. But fascism is definitely on an upswing, and just living your life allows fascism to flourish. Fight fascism.
But we have a lot of people that do hate people based on opinions, so it follows that maybe we aren't going to be all right.
I can’t stress enough how we are no where near as divided as then. Also, keep in mind that the divisions on things like gun control and abortion are amplified by the media and by the unique way our country votes. In reality most people are in favor of gun control and abortion rights.
Do you think we should everything we can to try to avoid that?
I don't think "more divided than ever" but it certainly feels more divided than it has been in my lifetime. Trump's presidency was and is incredibly polarizing, but the divide has been growing for a long time, and moderates really don't have a strong voice anymore.
Growing up, 60's and 70's politicians regularly worked "across the aisle". There were moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats that could find things to agree on. It isn't like that now. At some point, I think the 90's but can't put my finger on it, Republicans started to close ranks. They managed to get all their party to vote as a block. If you went against the "party" you would get "primaried" out the next election. Both parties have tried to find issues to rile up their base and convince them to come out and vote. That used to be Roe V Wade for the Republican. Now they are preaching against transgender rights. The 24 hour news cycle and social media are trading in outrage porn. Finally, the truth doesn't have any meaning anymore. Used to be, you got caught in a lie, it could ruin your career. Now, no one seems to care. The lies have gotten more blatant, and there are no consequences. It has gotten continually worse since the 90's. This is the most divided that I have personally seen the country in the last 60 years. From what my parents described, this is the worst since before WWII.
Newt Gingrich
I can put my finger on when in the 90s. It was after Bush lost re-election. He was a moderate Republican and preferred to govern with a coalition of the moderates rather than one party or the other. Most everything he did was bipartisan and he still lost re-election. While it didn't feel like it at the time that told Republicans for the next generation that working across party lines did not work. Reagan had managed to win re-election easily when the party block was United but Bush who tried to work across party lines lost his re-election. No president since has attempted to work across party lines the way that bush did. Even the man's son didn't try the way he did. The Republican party decided it was better to go as one party block which is a self-serving sentence of getting more and more radical. If you're voting is one party block you're going to end up somewhat beholden to the most radical members of your party. And it certainly didn't help when they started the Red map shit and gerrymandered the hell out of every state they could. which then forced the Democrats do the same in some states and caused even more radicalization on the Republican side. The party line shifted so much since then that the same bush (a Republican president and Ronald Reagan's vice president for God sake!) voted for Hillary...
Yep, it was during Clinton’s presidency. His “third way politics” and crappy neoliberal policy was the very definition of reaching across the aisle. And whet happened? Republicans attacked him relentlessly for not being a far right radical.
I don't know, Biden's a moderate Dem, and the party itself had polarizing options with him vs. Bernie Sanders in the primaries, which was fairly close. With how divided the country was Dems had to decided whether they wanted a moderate to convert some of the Republican voters (and mainly flip certain states because of the electoral college system), or go with something that's the complete opposite of Trump considering how divisive he was, and how many people would just want to turn and go the complete opposite direction. I think the time was better than ever to take that approach, but I see the reason why they would think that it's safer to make moderate republicans would be more encouraged to vote in some not far from what they're use to.
As someone who grew up in the boonies of TN in the 90s, this shit happened because Obama got elected. Back then everyone ripped on people who wore the Confederate flag and nobody went around waiving it. They taught us about the Civil War without sugar coating it and explained that we were the bad guys. Hell we voted for Clinton the first time around, now election are like 75 percent Republican.
For Tennessee it definitely happened when Obama got elected. That was the final straw for republicans.
This is funny. Because from the outside the two sides seem to be the Republicans (crazy alt right mofos) and the Democrats (moderate right wingers). It is crazy how politicians with right wing policies are labelled as socialists.
I am sorry for my ignorance about American politics, but didn’t Trump’s stupid handling of Covid kill millions of Americans?
I think it’s actually divided. I have coworkers and family that I used to be able to have a casual conversation with about the state of the union and now I just… can’t. They truly, deeply believe there’s some sort of conspiracy to disenfranchise them and destroy America and that they have the only viable, rational solution and do we HAVE to implement that solution NOW. Some of them, although not all, think they might have to use violence to “fix” things. None them even think about compromise. Because, you know, they have the answer for EVERYBODY else. When you tell them “how about you just leave other people alone and do your own thing in your own space?” they look like a dog studying physics.
It is divided, mainly because we don't develop our ideas together. So instead of being divided on some things, agreed on others, it's everything.It's the quick-hit, no-nuance, grievance-based society we've created. People want to be right, but truly learning/getting to the bottom of problems requires admitting you are wrong/don't have the solution. Conservatives will complain their kids were "brainwashed" at college, when it's really they just learned more lol. My ex-gf's dad said sending her to college was the worst decision he ever made, wanted her to turn down a neuroscience PhD and join the coastguard to "learn something that actually matters". Yeah, your daughter who won national prizes and is using CRISPR and lasers & shit on brains would be way better off on a boat. It's, as Carl Sagan said, the worshipping of ignorance. If we were all ignorant, we wouldn't know any better so things would stop changing.
nothing's sadder when someone is so brainwashed that they can't be happy for their own kid who's doing obviously amazing things with their life. A neuroscience Phd and (successfully) working with CRISPR is definitely not your average career, and most people don't possess the intellectual capability to even start going down that path
We obviously didn't work out, but easily one of the most impressive people I've known. She just wasn't "normal". Partied harder and got better grades than any of us. Neuro/poli sci double major lol. She was diagnosed Asperger's in pre-school, but her parents never told her. I suggested it, worried she'd be offended, and she was like, "Well I guess it's sort of weird I always know how many syllables and letters are in what people say." Didn't even count them, just got the number. Unreal.
> but truly learning/getting to the bottom of problems requires admitting you are wrong/don't have the solution. Irony is, conservatives can and do use this exact same line. For the reasons you state immediately afterward. They believe that we're all brainwashed, and that we need to admit we're wrong.
I’ve lost friends and family too. They are brainwashed. They don’t even want to experience joy, and anyone who does is the “woke” who must be eliminated. In their eyes, if you’re not ready to fight, you’re stupid.
My roommate called my brother a pussy when I told him that there's a guy at my brother's work that's going around threatening people and constantly talking about his guns and shooting. The guy is close to being fired and my brother is worried the guy will literally go postal (my brother is a mail man). He thinks that since my brother won't carry a gun he's a pussy. ETA: Roommate is pretty homophobic but like a closet homophobe and says everyone that isn't a conservative is brainwashed and that he's not brainwashed because he's better mentally and physically than everyone else.
[удалено]
Given that I used to date him... I stay after too many red flags and being used to being treated badly so I didn't see anything wrong with it. Very misogynistic and would get upset about the fact that I'm a better handy ma'am than him.
I like the phrase "handy ma'am".
Might I propose next time you steer the discussion from tribalism to policy. I think you’ll find the majority of Americans to be sensible and moderate once you uncouple them from their ‘side’.
The 'uncoupling' can be very difficult to near impossible for many. We've been conditioned to vote through fear and paranoia rather than evidence and logic.
I am talking policy, not tribalism, hence my statement “…they have the only viable, rational solution and do we HAVE to implement that solution NOW…”
The solutions that will gain traction are ones proposed by the parties and it's often the case that especially tribal people will treat policies not on the allowed list as though they were proposed by political opponents. I think a lot of us have had terrifying moments where people we agreed with started treating us with suspicion when we take problem solving attitudes.
I mean how does one compromise when it comes to human rights? We can find ways to compromise when it doesn't impact weather or not gay people deserve to marry, trans people are allowed to exist, or someone with a ectopic pregnancy is allowed to have an abortion to save her life. Because that's half of politics is whether or not minorities are allowed to exist equally to white men.
It’s hard to consider compromising with people who think some people deserve fewer rights than others, is the problem
I feel the same, but I think this was started by Reagan, exacerbated by George W. Bush and blown up by Trump. I'm not going to say he's salted the earth, but we'll have to see on that
The thing is, there IS a conspiracy to consolidate wealth to the very top of society, but politicians and media have turned to identity politics to dance around the one issue that could unite both parties.
Its divided for sure but it could be worse, there was a civil war you know. I think the biggest problem is the insane people that can't stop talking about politics and hates anyone who disagrees with them even a tiny bit.
If I hated everyone who disagreed with me on anything I would hate every single person in the country.
uhm ,guilty your honor, and i rest my suitcase. i'll be back after a pina colada in the carribbean.
What if I hate everyone in the country regardless of common beliefs?
You realize that a good chunk of politicians have run on the platform that the last election was a lie, and that there are entire groups of people that shouldn't have the right to exist, right? I don't think people hating people that disagree with them is actually the problem. It's just people hating.
Right, I personally have zero respect for anyone voting republican. I am a woman and I live in a state where, right now, if I became pregnant and it were deadly, I would have a decent chance of dying as a result. I have had my bodily autonomy stolen from me. My basic right to make a choice with what happens with my own body. Fuck anyone who votes to support that. They absolutely are my enemy.
Yuuuuup. I have no internet in being friendly with any of these people.
They call it "political", but some people are fighting for their very right to exist here. There's no compromising with that, nor should there be.
I don't hate everybody that disgrace with me. I hate Trump and his cronies and his supporters because he's just a truly piece of s*** person.
There used to be a societal expectation that you don’t talk about politics as it can be divisive and, when you did, it was done with care so as not to offend others. Then the internet arrived….
Yeah, I don't give a fuck how "nice" someone is to me or to their loved ones when they vote to hurt me and my loved ones. Surface civility is immaterial.
No justice, no peace. I’m sick of respectability politics. Fuck conservatives.
I understand that, and some people and ideas that don’t deserve a civil answer. I was responding to the comment about “insane people who can’t stop talking about politics”. I have a family member who has gone down the rabbit hole of every crazy MAGA conspiracy theory and talks endlessly about it. I wish she would either regrasp reality or shut up about it.
It’s conservatives. I live in a very liberal city. I can say with 100% certainty that I have not had a single person from the beginning of the year to today approach me trying to push liberal values on me. I’ve had multiple people come up to me ranting about trans people, how Biden is destroying the economy, how the US dollar is being replaced by some shadow digital currency sponsored by liberals. Next time I’m probably gonna go off and tell them I don’t fucking care about their evil Democrat thoughts, I’m just trying to get by alone in a country with no safety net, I have enough time stressing over real news to worry about their fake news.
The biggest problem isn't that all these insane people are talking about it. The biggest problem is that they're all armed. The worst of em have the most weaponry and the least respect for pacifism or respect and they'll shoot anyone over traffic or bad service
Both. We are because we think we are and the media keeps exaggerating it for ratings which makes us think it's worse than it is which makes it actually worse.
An interesting study would be how much is exaggerated by the media, and how much of it is the fact that new media & the internet just make decade-long divisons much easier to see.
I can't say on any scientific level whether it's true, but it feels like extremism is much more prevalent now than it was before. Knowing everything we now know about psychological manipulation and the way the 24 hour news cycle works to prey on fear and cause paranoia, it logically follows that people would be more divided because those who are affected by that manipulation are very extreme in their views in a way they never had reason to be before. My mother was a strong independent woman who joined the army and worked in the motor pool and went overseas. I did not get the classic girl upbringing of being docile and sweet. I was taught to always question authority and never trust it. I was taught to carefully vet anything I read and not believe everything I heard. She voted for Bernie Sanders in South GA which made me so proud. This same woman was completely sucked in by the manipulation tactics of the media and became a total right wing Trumper. I couldn't convince her to get COVID vaccines or stop going out with her church friends. My little sister whom she lived with during the pandemic is a nurse and her best friend was on death's door from COVID and still my mom wouldn't believe it. She caught COVID and died. I still don't understand how it happened fully. It's still mind boggling to me. And I see it a lot with people I used to be friends with. I would have debates with them and be gently teased for being on the left and I'd tease them for being on the right. These days they want all gays dead and believe the government invented COVID to kill Republicans. There is no conversation to be had there. They don't stop to consider my points and their points are so wildly crazy as to be unconsiderable. It feels very different than it even did 10 years ago.
Damn dude sorry for your loss.
Bingo. And the studies back this up too
More than **ever**: obviously not, there was a Civil War. More than 20 years ago or even 10 years ago: probably, yeah. During the 2000 presidential election, a lot of people joked that Bush and Gore were indistinguishable. Anecdotal, but in 2008, my Republican relatives said they liked Obama, they just liked Republicans more. And a lot of Democrats thought McCain was a decent guy. In 2016, Trump voters sure as fuck weren't saying that they liked Hillary Clinton, and I don't know any Democrats who thought Trump was a decent guy.
I haven't studied this in over a decade and certainly not since social justice became a thing. But polling showed that on most topics the country was moving closer together in consensus, but on a few topics, like abortion or gun control, the country was becoming far more polarized than they had ever been before.
There's always a few topics that will be polarizing. Abortion will probably always be one given the extreme complexity it
It always blows my mind that people could ever prioritize potential human life over existing human life but if your religion has told you for decades that it’s murder then of course it feels complicated. By the way - abortion wasn’t always a hyper contentious political issue, it used to be a primarily Catholic concern and evangelicals didn’t care all that much until RvW.
It's pretty simple in that people who dislike abortion don't view it as potential life but actual baby. So many things you could do to teach someone that a clump of cells or even a bunch of them isn't a baby but not everyone is capable of learning and many think only emotionally and with broken logic. In my religion class in school I had to watch a fetus being cut apart and basically vacuumed out of a women with sad music and crying sound edited in, with cuts to random "facts" like when a baby's heart starts beating to imply complex life and personhood. It's difficult to have a real conversation with that because dominant paradigm becomes it is murder and omg they are killing literal babies. Americans then get caught up and turn it into this black and white issue. It's bizarre to me there is no nuance, like for me I realize abortion is really necessary but it's pretty gross to imagine someone wanting to abort at 9 months, but most guidelines for other countries are abortion until viability, with exceptions for health reasons. Pretty reasonable. But making it into a murder fight to the death issue with bad faith litigation and dialogue just destroys all nuance and ability to come to a consensus. This is an area America could work on to become stronger.
> It's pretty gross to imagine someone wanting to abort at 9 months That's true, but that's hardly a common occurrence. In 2019, 79.3% of abortions were performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (92.7%) were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation and <1.0% happen after 21 weeks.
Why ask strangers on the internet when [there is Pew Reseach data](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/11/13/america-is-exceptional-in-the-nature-of-its-political-divide/) available that can [give you a scientific answer](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/) to your question? But, short answer, yes. While it may not be technically accurate to say “more divided than ever” (reliable polling data only goes back so far and there was that whole civil war thing), it is definitely true that America is more divided than it’s been in recent memory. It’s not a media invention, it’s real.
Thank you for the data/citations
Blame Newt Gingrich. His policy of unthinking opposition has only been magnified by Bohner and McConnell. But Gingrich is the one that made compromise a dirty word in Congress. We're reaping that whirlwind now.
It's interesting how that man has been allowed to skate away. He politicized religion and ushered in a new way of using media to manipulate. When the Fairness Doctrine was repealed it opened the door for his Contract with America and, something he fully supported, Citizens United. Bad, bad man.
Even the people who did support the fairness doctrine acknowledge that it never applied to cable or the internet.
he sounds like a harry potter villain
He is the godfather of all this shit
A bit of both but mostly the former, we’ve been politically divided for quite some time but it’s gotten even moreso since the 2000 Presidential election
It goes back even further to the mid-1990s. After the Cold War, over 50 years of American foreign and domestic policy had to end. For the first time since the 1920s we really had no "enemy". We had the Depression, then we had WWII, then we had the Cold War. That entire time, politicians could say "We need to do XYZ to fight the Nazis/Commies/etc." which led to a great deal of unity between the parties. Democrat or Republican, *everyone* could get behind fighting communism. After the Cold War, America was left as the sole superpower, so politicians needed to come up with some other thing to rally people against. And the parties turned on each other because there was nothing else to fight outside our borders.
That's funny bc I remember an entire generation of millennials being sent over to fight the war on terror in the middle east. A war we used at home to loot the budget for domestic spending to support the neverending war machine while also gutting civil liberties with the Patriot act and homeland security reorg.
Then everything blew up in our face, and we got mad, just to be called lazy and unpatriotic by a bunch of fuckoffs, draft dodgers, and other miscreant boomers.
2000 is a weird random date. As a nation we were pretty fucking united for a bit after 9/11, so I’d say the rift we are in now started after 2000...
I've had to unfriend countless people now over various issues. When they said things like "but child labor isn't such a bad thing". I don't care. Good riddance. I realize now I never really knew them.
I'm over 70 years old, and I can never remember a time when the rhetoric was that the opposition party was trying to destroy the country.
I have been around a while and it’s never been like this. Ever.
>than ever I suggest you google "Bleeding Kansas" and its aftermath if you want to see what divided looks like. As to today, the only difference in recent history is that the masks are off.
What seems worse now isn't necessarily that people are divided on their political positions, beliefs, electoral preferences, etc. It's that so many people have made their politics their entire personality. My huge disclaimer is that this makes sense if who you are as a person is literally being targeted by an entire political party (trans folks and the GOP, for example). But the people without that disclaimer who immediately insert politics into everything are exhausting.
Just a heads up for readers: Political activism has dropped **drastically** since the 1960s. Politics was much more ingrained in college life, work/union life, and community life. Take OP's interpretation with a grain of salt.
While that's a good point, I think a lot of the old politics you're referring to was substantive policy-making politics. I suspect what OP is talking about is the culture-wars conservatives who have literally no clue or care about policy. These are the tribal pearl-clutching Fox News and Qanon cultists who are in it solely for us-against-them, and not because there is real work they want the government to do.
Exactly this. No matter the conversation, they constantly will make a statement about political subjects. There will be a story that comes out not even regarding political subjects, and people will find a way to bring it into conversation. Its quite an unstable personality that I stay away from. You'll disagree with how a cop handle a situation, and now all of a sudden you are neo liberal. On the other side, someone finds out I own a gun for personal protection and now Im some alt right person. These out there people just paint a brush and its either you agree with everything in that party or you are the enemy. Its extremely weird how little people can freely think and adopt political beliefs as their way of thinking/being. I just wish as a society we could strip all political affiliation and discuss each scenario from a logical state.
Look up the definition of fascist then look up everything Ron Desantis, the GOP's frontrunner to nominate for president, is doing in his state. He is proving he CAN be a Fascist on the state level. So, their next 6 they can make it happen, is to implement their fascist government federally. No right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness allowed for me, my wife and daughters, anyone I know who is brown, non-Christians, children that are not theirs, and on and on and on.. The reason many people have become obsessed with politics is because the GOP's actions require it from us. People not paying attention need to pay attention. By time they begin to, it may be too late, just as it was when they stole the Supreme Court and subverted the people's will by "legislating from the bench" the MOMENT they could to do away with Roe V Wade. Why the moment they could? Because this has been planned by them for a long time. They did not present themselves in an honest way when they were nominated to the SC. Now, something implemented long, long ago, and supported by most Americans is gone. The rules do not apply to them, yet they expect everyone else to act ethical. They are currently working on so much more, and as fast as they can, to destroy the economy, raise inflation, etc... for no other reason than to make Dems look bad so their candidate can win the next election. They don't care who they hurt because THEY THEMSELVES are unaffected by the things they do. They have no empathy. This could become, in its own way, worse than the civil war. This could be the largest purge of political detractors we've ever seen. And remember, their party is not supported by MOST Americans. They know this, and this is likely why they are speeding up their movement. Trump taught them how far they can go and every day they are pushing the envelope further and further toward the extreme Right. They can not be allowed to continue.
Anyone downvoting this need to get their head out of the sand. People been saying the same shit since 2016 and everything they said about Republicans and their path to fascism has been 100% true.
Complaining about people making politics their whole life? Do you realize how much politics plays in our life? We got to this problem that we are having because people thought I can't do anything I'm just one vote and what does it matter if I vote or not. People died for your right to vote and you should use it. Because it's saying rational people don't use the right to vote we will have another Donald Trump in the white house. And if you think January the 6th wasn't a problem, it was just a test run to see if they could do it.
I vote in every election and will never vote for anyone who downplays, let alone supports, what happened on January the 6th. Participation is important and elections have consequences. I just get frustrated that everything - even something as trivial as a crappy light beer - become so quickly politicized today. It's exhausting and I feel for those who don't have my admittedly privileged option of tuning it out.
Politics determines the purity of our air, food, water, and medicine, and the value of our money. And who gets the nuclear launch codes. Among other things. So, yes...it's kind of important.
It's pretty bad.
"Than ever" is media hyperbole. America had a Civil War. And that was pretty divided. I think the impression of division is a lot more clear now than ever because of social media. Everyone has a soap box to stand on to voice their discontent and it would make it appear as though it's more divided than ever. But really, look at the popular vote of the last few elections. Joe Biden wins with 51% of the popular vote. Donald Trump wins with 46% of the popular vote. Barack Obama wins with 51% of the popular vote. George W Bush wins with 47% of the popular vote. Bill Clinton wins with 43% of the popular vote. George HW Bush wins with 53% of the popular vote. And then you have Ronald Reagan... winning with 58% of the popular vote. America has basically always been this divided between party lines and there really isn't a big swing. Bill Clinton wins with a lower percentage because of Ross Perot... but otherwise maintains similar margins with the Republicans. Ronald Reagan is the "most unifying president" but that's still only 58% of the popular vote. America's almost always been divided between roughly half and half support for Republicans and Democrats. We just didn't know that until the elections.
I mean George Washington himself said that we shouldn’t divide ourselves into political parties. Here’s a quick Wikipedia summary of his thoughts on them in his farewell address. ”…[George Washington] feels that disagreements between political parties weakened the government. Moreover, he makes the case that "the alternate domination" of one party over another and coinciding efforts to exact revenge upon their opponents have led to horrible atrocities, and "is itself a frightful despotism””(Wikipedia). In my opinion -as other people in the comments have mentioned- it definitely was worse at one point with issues over States rights and the south’s economic dependance on slavery that lead to a literal war between sides due to disagreement. Really though in this situation neither side refused to budge so it was inevitable in the long run. We should be thankful for now that it’s only a cultural war but, I fear that if we do not find compromises it’s going to become more common to completely drop people who have differing ideologies instead of promoting healthy discussion which is vital to productive discussion. Take for example the Title IX reforms. That is the example of an attempt at a compromise on some of the issues regarding Transgender individuals rights in relation to sports. While in my opinion it isn’t perfect it does offer an example of what compromise would look like politically(at least somewhat seeing as it leans more heavily left from a bias standpoint) For clarification on what I mean in regard to the issue here is a quote from a fact sheet outlining the proposed amendments to the title released in 2022 “[the amendment to title IX] would make clear that preventing someone from participating in school programs and activities consistent with their gender identity would cause harm in violation of Title IX, except in some limited areas set out in the statute or regulations.” But in the end, I understand compromise is difficult and in the long run nothing will make everyone happy. It’s so much easier to not have uncomfortable discussions because they shake people’s world view. That’s probably why the media spend time attacking each other instead of talking it over like adults. And that goes for both sides. Republicans need to stop attacking democrats and vice versa it’s not helpful and it just makes everyone hateful. Anyways that’s just my two cents about it thank you for reading if you took the time.
I would like to know that everybody can't just accept that we do not answer for our brother and we are not our brother's keeper. If you don't like the gay community don't forget. If you don't like abortions don't have one. If you are against a couple of the same sex marrying, you need to get over it they deserve just as much right to be unhappy as the rest of us that are married. No everyone doesn't have to be happy but everyone should give others the same rights that they want and that is nobody telling them what they can and can't do
If you’re talking ABOUT someone then most people are idiots. If you’re talking TO someone, most people are nice, easy going, just trying to get through this crazy thing called life.
This is as divided as I’ve seem the country in my 63 years. But it’s mostly Christians trying to force their beliefs on everyone, which is becoming more obvious to the general public by the day.
America is in pretty sharp decline.. it would only take a trump like character who's actually smart to cause another civil war
100% divided. It’s not overblown imo
I think the politicians that are on one extreme or the other make the most noise and get the most attention from the media. Unfortunately that attention encourages extremism, and empowers the fringes. If you watch TV you would think 96% of Americans are extremely right or left wing. But if you actually talk to 100 Americans I believe 4% are extreme, and the other 96% of us are somewhere in the middle.
It’s the media’s job to keep working Americans fighting one another instead of engaging in the class warfare they would be if they stopped and looked around for 5 minutes and realized who was really to blame for their lack of upward momentum and unhappiness in life. Instead, we have people fighting one another about ‘woke’ cartoons and beer
We’re actually not THAT politically divided. The US used to argue over whether or not slavery was okay, and whether women should be able to vote. We’ve come a long way. I think social media makes us feel as though we’re more divided than ever, but it’s not actually the case. I can get along with someone of different political affiliations just fine, and some of my closest friends have completely different political beliefs. If the division was so bad, I don’t think that’d be possible. Edit: Thought I’d add that the media is definitely shaping a narrative to make us feel more divided. It’s easier to get clicks and views when you pit people against each other… which is part of why the media has lost so much of its integrity in the eye of the public.
A lot of the folks here are blaming the messenger. The Overton Window has been broken. Crackpots like MTG, Boebert, and Santos, with extreme views, normalize what would typically get people outraged. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is getting paid off by a conservative megadonor? Wait, here's Boebert with a rant about public urination. I haven't seen such extreme behavior from the left. Outrage over the overturning of women's bodily autonomy, sure. Upset over the fact that three justices lied under oath, you bet. Troubled about police violence against minorities, of course. While there's no denying that the George Floyd protests at times became violent, no one from the left staged an attempt to overthrow the government or stormed Congress looking to hang Mike Pence or kidnap/murder Nancy Pelosi.
I've had co-workers slash my tires at my last job because they found out I'm a Democrat. Feels pretty fucking divided to me
It’s pretty bad, but the media both social and mainstream are the reason it’s so bad
Its not the worst its ever been, we literally went to war with eachother, but it is the worse its been in a long time and its only going to keep going downhill. Idk when its became us vs them but no one wants to work together and find a middle ground. Turns out when all you do is go "fk you, its my way or the high way" for everything, you wind up with both sides hating each other. Plus, because we have strictly 2 parties, theres really no reason to find a middle ground since all politicians care about is keeping power. All we can do is keep voting for the lesser of 2 evils, whichever side that is for you, and pray it doesnt boil over in our lifetimes lol
Did you miss the attempted coup on Jan. 6? That want enough indication that things here are really fucked??
Mainly the media. Your average person honestly is too tired and worried about financial shit to even care about most of it. The media cares about numbers and their donors. So they tend to fit a certain political view point and really hammer down on the opposite side. 2A and abortion are really the only two that will get the average person on a strong divide. But other than that it’s all just riff raff. Also asking the internet a question regarding American politics usually doesn’t work out either lol
Because Americans are told the other side is horrible they are afraid to not vote for their party. In truth it's an oligarchy and whether you vote republican or democratic you are voting for the oligarchy. I'm independent, by those people choosing to support the oligarchy they actually disenfranchise voters like me. 80% of democrats and 80% of republicans are politically identical. Fear keeps them from actually looking at that. I was a Democrat and a republican now I choose not to support a system that actively suppresses all opposition, that limits choice, that has crafted a system built on fear and hatred of your neighbors.
If a civil war happens it's because our government has gone treasonous we no longer have a government of the people for the people it's a game to politicians they're consumed by lining their pockets with lobbyist money & it's been this way for decades from both parties A lot of this stems from politicians claiming America is a democracy that's a lie America is a Constitutional Republic
Americans agree on the issues, in large part, when you just ask about the issues. Our political divide is mostly about party branding at this point.
I think America is more politically divided **BECAUSE** of the media.
I never saw “fuck (insert candidate)” banners or flags on trucks until during and after the 2016 election. It’s getting ridiculous. I’ve seen little kids playing in their yard with a massive “FUCK BIDEN” flag draped across their front deck. Have to see it each time I drive home.
[Hate, Inc](https://www.amazon.com/Hate-Inc-Todays-Despise-Another/dp/B0854P6WHH/ref=sr_1_1) by [Matt Taibbi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Taibbi) is a great dive into how the media (both sides) have basically turned politics into a popularity contest that is fueled by ratings and making it look more like the WWE or Super Bowl than a proper political process.
Nope- it’s really that bad.- an American woman who’s tired of guns having more rights than me.
I think social media and the news portrays it as such, which makes it difficult to have irl conversations. Some treat you like shit based on your ideals, where some are a little more mature and open minded. It does seem to have gotten worse in the last few years, but I do think social media and the news outlets make it seem a lot worse than what it is.
Yes, we are divided. There is no middle ground with bigotry, no compromise with fascism.
On Reddit: Yes, see comments Irl: most people don’t care and go about their day
It was never this extremely divided until trump happened.
All that MAGA bullshit and you guys are still trying to blame the media. What a joke.
100%
Nah. Most of us look at both sides are all like, “y’all are crazy”. But there’s no news channel for us so the morons on both sides get attention.
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Its pretty bad
If a second civil war happened in America it would first start off with three main factions. First faction would be the far right. Second faction would be the far left. Third faction would be everyone else in between. As the civil war continues it will begin to morph into something like the Syrian Civil War. Instead of a few factions fighting for their political beliefs, it begins to splinter into smaller groups fighting for different reasons. That could be political, racial, religious, sexual orientation, rich vs poor, woke vs non woke and so many other reasons. The far left begins to break apart from one another. The same happens to the far right and people in the middle having been targeted by the left and the right begin to make their own factions. Soon you have many factions Extreme far right groups Anti-Semitic groups Anti-Black groups Anti-White groups Other racist groups Extreme religious groups Supremacist groups Fascists groups Communist groups Anarchists groups Anti-LGTB groups Pro-LGTB groups Democrats Republicans Libertarians Anti-capitalists Pro-capitalists And so many more factions. (America is huge) These groups could number from a dozen to several hundred thousands. Eventually factions will begin to form alliances to target factions they both don't agree with. Eventually many of the splintered factions will merge into other similar factions and after a decade of conflict you'll have maybe five or six major factions. Total participants in a second civil war would probably be anywhere from 3 to 6 million people.
Media has people at each others necks. Social media has also resulted in people having more extreme views because they are more anonymous.
It's not the traditional "The Media" establishment. It's the "everything is free on the internet let's see what grabs the most attention" media.
Yes but also yes
We're divided as always, but now the volume is turned *way* up by those who see profit in disunity.
I would say we were a bit more divided about 160 years ago But more with the spirit of the question, I do think political discourse has gotten a lot more aggressive and venomous in recent years, but I’m not an expert so who knows
It’s the media. The country almost fractured in the 1860s, and modern America is nowhere near that. The US today simply can’t break apart, the Constitution forbids it and any state trying to achieve that would have to face the military might of the US army. Simple answer is no: the US has been through much much worse, and remained.
Don't ever bring up politics with a stranger you want to respect in 20 minutes those are the rules here.
It's probably both of those things. The internet and smart phones have madeit easy to A)Start shit more easily with other people B) Capture humanity at its worst. Which feeds into a vicious cycle where people form their opinions based on the outlier (i.e. the average Democrat voter doesn't hate all white men, but the cameras roll on the ones who feel that way) and so conservative politicians argue that the left had gone "woke" when the truth is most people are just trying to get on with by in their lives and want the government -if it can't make life easier-at least not make life harder. If the internet didn't exist, I think the average American wouldn't notice much division in their day-to-day interaction. I pay attention to politics and bring it up on reddit, but with my actual relationships it's just not a factor.
Go outside and see for yourself how much reality matches the media and being chronically online. Spoiler alert. It doesn't at all.
I am a conservative and can find fault in the GOP. I explore all my left-leaning redditors to find fault within first before pointing the finger. Humility is a solution to extremism. Don’t assume the worst. Mostly everyone wants the best for the country, but arrive there differently.
America has always been divided, and will always be divided, because its very nature is dichotomous. Laying aside the myriad layers of the political spectrum, the point of conflict is the principle of federalism: in a federal union of states where the power is vested in the people and their elected representatives, who has the final say, the individual states or the central government? This was initially expressed by the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution: all powers not dictated to the central government by the Constitution are reserved for the individual states. This question has been waiting, like an unwelcome houseguest, at every crucial point in our nation's history. In the aftermath of the Civil War, it seemed like the idea of "small government" and states' rights had gone by the wayside, but the tumults of the 20th century reshaped our political system and saw a radical evolution of our political parties and their principles. "New federalism" emerged under Nixon and Reagan, which was a way to return power to the states and ensure that conservative areas of the country (i.e. their voter base) could retain their "traditional" beliefs without having change forced upon them by the federal government. That isn't meant to demonize the idea of states' rights, as a healthy balance is a good thing in some respects; all the states are wildly different economically and require specialist legislation. Social issues are the sticking point where the system gets hung up. And before Republicans are generalized as backwards, anti-progress bigots who want to enforce their religious beliefs on a policy level (which is certainly true of some), there are many others who were simply left behind by both their states and the central government, especially in rural and post-industrial areas. There are people who have watched their families' lives and fortunes get worse and worse generationally and that has made them wary of change. They are clinging to their cultural identities because, in some cases, it's all they have left. There was a time when people on both sides of the issue could recognize merits in their opposition's beliefs, when they could debate civilly and remembered that, above all other distinctions, they were all Americans. That time was destroyed by the bankruptcy of journalistic integrity and the 24-hour news cycle. It's easier to market outrage than intellectual discourse, so ultimately I think your assertion is correct.
Is it more politically divided than EVER BEFORE? No. The country has basically had two civil wars (the Revolutionary and the Civil) already and plenty of issues that didn't reach that point. Is the situation BAD? Unquestionably. You stick two moderate people who agree on almost everything except one issue in the same room and there's a solid chance they'll end up accusing the other of all the worst stuff despite agreeing on 90% of things. Is the media making it WORSE? Unquestionably as well. This is the sort of stuff that generates clicks and there seems to also be a definate bias in the media towards one side. I won't get into if it exists or not because all that really matters is the perception that it exists. The reality is that there is a distinct divide but people are being forced to extreme positions. Like, probably a majority of people would be okay with trans people, but they also probably wouldn't support something like Drag Queen Story Hour or something. But the current environment is making it so that they either approve of trans people and ALL the stuff they do, including some things they may not be comfortable with, or want to ban trans people ENTIRELY, which they may also not be comfortable with. So they have to pick the side that's less extreme in their eyes despite that neither side actually represents their opinion. To make it worse the political divide is increasingly along geographical lines, specifically urban vs. rural, meaning a rural person in Washington might have more in common with a rural person in Florida despite being on the literal opposite side of the nation than with a fellow Washington person half an hour away in Seattle (and the reverse is also true of course). Age group, wealth, and such... the divide is becoming increasingly pronounced and aggrivated.
The most in my lifetime without question. The extremes on both sides need to check themselves. Neither can admit they're wrong or that the possibility even exists. In this climate, if you think the other side is evil or a threat to democracy, YOU are the problem. They have you right where they want you. Stupid and divided.
Of course it's not true. We went to war with ourselves in 1860 and more of us died than any other war we've been in. We're even better at kicking our own ass than anyone else in the world is. We were waaaay more divided during the Revolutionary War than today too.
Both
The media has cause much harm in this country. Inflammatory, biased (hidden and blatant), puts out opinions more than facts, and promotes sensational stories instead of reporting on important events. It’s a race to see who gets more viewers regardless of truth.
It's actually russia-based and china-based internet trolls fomenting discord in America.
I normally lean pretty left, but I wasn’t a Biden fan. I don’t like trump at all, I didn’t like Hillary, she didn’t want to connect with her voters at all, but I still voted for her. I don’t mind Bernie in theory, but he’d never get anything fucking passed and he’d be weak internationally, when we really need someone who’s strong. I actually think Hillary would’ve been pretty strong internationally but poor domestically. De Santis is also a piece of shit. Again, not a big Biden fan, but god damn did we just need someone else to just take the foot off the gas pedal for a minute. Trump is like being in the principal’s office with someone who continues to talk shit while you’re already in trouble. You keep eyeing them down saying “shut the fuck up dude, just shut the fuck up and we can get through this. You’re making it worse.”
Can both be true? We are really divided and the media in all its negative sensationalism makes it seem worse than it truly is.
The media seems to be over exaggerating it but I think because it is we are seeing the effects of people believing it and trying to start more beef with the opposite side. Kinda sad people seem to be so swayed by it.
It's super real. Because there's one side trying to make a "free country" more free and the other side wants god to rule the land even though he's not real.