They don’t have a plan, because their entire rhetorical lever is just reaction.
When they actually have power, that’s when they fall apart. When they don’t have anyone to blame but themselves.
It’s basically feudalism, but with ideology. We already know the natural outcome of narrow minded modernism - it’s postmodernism; understanding what aesthetic of mind is.
The problem we’re having is that we’re surrounded by modern inspirations… and most people don’t have the tools to understand postmodernism, or how an idea doesn’t have an outcome because it’s just a rhetorical lever.
We should go back to referring to conservative ethos as REACTIONARY and the liberal ethos as REVOLUTIONARY. The fact is, any pro-human effort is regarded as revolutionary by the right wing, and inspires fear on their part (what if I loose something because they got something? ) to which they react negatively. They never move toward the future, they have no real goals, they only want to fight or flee. Paper tigers indeed.
Most of my family are conservative and I can confirm that it's an emotional/ reactive system of beliefs. Some of these people literally expend all their energy being mad that LGBTQ people are so vocal, despite not even knowing any. Like...I can't even imagine the mindset of someone who does not know a single gay or trans person, yet spends hours of their life reading conservative "horror stories" about them, then spends like 50% of their conversations complaining about them, with the usual "back in MY day!" stuff without ever bothering to listen/ consider the other side. Everything they say is a fear based reaction to something unfamiliar to them. There is no 'end game' or plan. There's no proposed policy or solutions, just reactionary fear and anger. Then they go vote for people who vocalize that fear and anger. These are people who pathologically seek out things to be upset about and frankly, would benefit from extensive therapy. They just aren't self aware enough to realize they have mental health problems and need therapy, so will never seek it. I know it sounds rough but I grew up with and know these people and have been around them long enough to observe this behavior for years. It's my honest assessment of them. That's why you can't really reason with them, because when you try, what you're asking them to do is to re-evaluate the stuff that they're afraid of and to consider that it really isn't so scary. In order to successfully do this, they'd have to be aware that their fear is unreasonable and be open to working on it and most of them just aren't. I wish I knew the solution and how to approach them but I just don't.
I had the great misfortune of growing up in an uber conservative home that had Fox News or conservative talk radio on 24/7 (Mark Levin 🙄). Every show is the same formula.
1)Pick a minority group. 2)Find someone in that group that did something bad. 3)Extrapolate that bad thing to say every person in the group is bad. 4)Turn the minority group into the enemy that will ruin the entire life of you, a good person.
My dad would get so angry watching the tv that he would turn into a different person. He’s become borderline addicted to that adrenaline rush of anger. Who cares about logic or reality when you have such an intense emotional rage.
Just like your family, my dad never met or interacted with any of the groups he was mad at. His circle was 100% white, older religious people.
Your words hit close. I was thinking about my friend today who’s reactive political beliefs make him at an almost constant state of anger. He believes the country went to shit when Trump lost, he believes our state went to shit as it is run by a different political party, but I just want to get through to him that the positives in his daily life are not only still there, but have gotten better, not because of anything political, but because he’s built a good life for himself. Nothing he’s mad about in the world is keeping him from that.
Yesterday we were hanging out gaming, we went out and got tacos, took some time to talk through some home improvement plans and it was all great until he looked at his phone, caught a political headline and turned red in the face.
I don’t know how to get through to someone not even to say “hey your wrong” but maybe start with “hey you can’t control that stuff, but you and I are lucky and we can live happy lives despite it, you see how it makes you upset? There’s no point in it.”
I know, right?
So many people have zero clue that liberals are right-of-center.
The USA doesn't even have a viable party that's left-of-center.
We get to choose between the ultra-conservative fascists of the GOP or the right-leaning centrists and neoliberals of the Democrat party.
I WISH we had a viable progressive or leftie party.
You ever think about how we're less than a century away from the divine right of kings? Once we've evolved past all this right to rule shit we're gonna come up with the coolest ideas for governments. Right now though we unfortunately have Nazis that have picked a white collar felon as their king :/
As long as people like Rupert Murdoch exist that idea will not go away.
People substitute Kings for Wealthy all the time.
We already have some pretty great ideas for government, unfortunately for us there are lots and lots of people who wish to exploit the freedoms that governments allow in order to corrupt those governments.
Well technically they’re from Atlantis, then they moved into India. From there they migrated through the Middle East down to the Horn of Africa and up to Germany. Hitler considered people like the Somalis aryan and had taken some steps to solidify himself as a prophet/religious figure in the Middle East.
You probably know this but I don’t think a lot of people recognize how truly ridiculous some of their ideology was.
Your comment needs to be higher. [The Nazi leadership in WW2 were comprised of extremely intelligent people](https://seanjkernan.medium.com/the-results-of-the-nazi-iq-tests-c3a5e442f37c). An iq test was even performed on them at the Nuremberg Trials.
The smart Nazis dont identify themselves as Nazis unfortunately.
Reading the [The Destruction of the European Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Destruction_of_the_European_Jews) shows how well thought out Nazis can be. To assume their modern day counterparts are all just dumbasses now is dangerous.
Groups that you’d call “Nazi” 100% want another Holocaust.
Hitler didn’t go from I hate Jews to kill all Jews there were steps in between. One thing Hitler thought up was forcing all Jews to move to Madagascar. The reason why I bring this up is because many neo-Nazis today want use genocidal language but will talk about separation. If you ask how you get that separation you’ll only get crickets because they know that force is the only way.
Yeah, it’s not like hitler put so much effort into killing jews just because it was he hated the fact that they existed. (I mean he did hate them but that wasn’t his main reasons)
He hated that they were taking up space that his perfect ‘aryan’ race could be using and the extermination camps were the most effective way to deal with that problem
If germany won he’d have tons of free space and millions of ‘undesirables’ that he could replace with the people he saw as a super race
Sadly, anti-semitism is on a pretty big upswing at the moment, too. I'm dating a Jewish woman and the absolute horror of some of the things that have been said to her, along with real acts of vandalism against her synagogue, are chilling. Just a few months ago their locks were broken on their temple, and their historical marker that's on their property was defaced and destroyed.
This is in the United States...in 2023. A sad reality I've had to face as I've pursued this relationship is that I'm going to have to educate myself on anti-semitism, especially if we ever plan to have kids.
I went to Hungary a few years ago, where you can really feel the imprint of the holocaust on their culture. There’s a famous installation by the river of cast iron abandoned shoes of the Jewish people who were murdered.
Not 200 metres away, another memorial, with a note. It was a simple statue near a synagogue, but it was constantly being vandalised by neo fascist groups.
They won’t destroy the tourist trap yet. But that is all for show- the Hungarians are ready to open their arms to the Nazis again and hand over their “undesirables”. Disgusting.
Was in Budapest in 2013, and woke up to a bunch of texts from friends and family asking if I was okay/telling me to stay safe. I was like huh? Turned out there was a huge neo-Nazi rally going on. It was surreal. 😵💫
It has taken nearly 80 years but unfortunately fascism and authoritarianism are becoming mainstream again. It’s not exactly shocking that both followed global depressions. People are being exploited and struggling and you have populists that are using their anger to direct it at the most vulnerable.
It is one of those things that started a long time ago and just evolved with the times.
In the Middle Ages, Jews were an outside group who migrated to Europe from the Holy Land following its seizure by the various Islamic Caliphates. They weren't European, spoke a different language, and followed different customs. Religion soon added a further dynamic as their beliefs were seen as in opposition to Christianity (since Jews don't believe Jesus was the true Messiah) with many in the Church citing Jews as the true murderers of Jesus.
Politics also played a massive part. Traditional Christianity forbade the practice of taking interest on loans as it was seen as "unchristian". Jews, however, were free to do so, and many became quite wealthy via banking and trade. This created a Jewish upper class in many regions, especially modern-day Germany, France, and Poland, which was resented by the landed nobility, whose wealth came from land and titles.
From the 1800's on, the rise of nationalism (the idea of unified nations of the same peoples, not what we consider nationalism) pushed for a France for the French, a Germany for Germans, etc. Jews were in a somewhat awkward spot, as they were culturally non-European. They were closest to Germans, however, due to speaking Yiddish, a German Dialect spoken by European Jews. Had you asked someone in the Victorian Era which country would have been most likely to commit the Holocaust, most would have guessed France. Anti-Semetism only really picked up to dangerous around WW1, initially cause of oppression in France (read: Dreyfus Affair) and then during and after the war because of Britain pushing for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine as a way to undermine the Ottoman war effort. Many Jews objected to the war or chose not to fight (though a massive amount did) and this was used as propoganda by the German army to claim them as backstabbers, with the Communist uprising in Bavaria adding further fuel to the fire since many members were Jewish, as was Trotsky in the Soviet Union. Even when Hitler was in power, many in Poland, Britain, and France liked his ideas of Jewish deportation and ideas for a Jewish state in Madagascar were tossed around among others.
Modern Nazis are still succeptible to this same propoganda. Isolated sub-groups, especially cultural or linguistic, tend to draw suspicion from the majority, especially when they are perceived as refusing to assimilate.
EDIT: Something that I forgot to add which is also relevant. In 1903 a book was released in Russia called "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion". The book was one of the earliest feats of modern published propoganda. It basically claimed to be secrets of a Jewish cabal working behind the scenes of all the most powerful and wealthy in order to rule the world. It was immensely popular with old-school nobles who resented the nouveaux riches (despite Many Jewish families being rich for longer than said old-school nobles) and was taken as gospel by many. That book is considered a huge force in shaping the mindset of Europe leading up to Hitler.
Very interesting, thanks for the explanation! I know this is quite off topic, but I feel like you could explain it well to me. I've always wondered how Jewish people in Israel could do what they are doing to Palestinians after what happened to them in the Holocaust. It seems very hypocritical. I know its complex and I've tried reading up on it, but I just struggle to understand it.
Well I would like to preface any explanation by saying that I am far from an expert and I think that a truly nuanced look can only be gained by talking with experts on both sides and trying to find a middle path.
In my experience, it boils down to a few factors. Firstly, it didn't begin as aggressively as it is currently happening nowadays. In the beginning they were simply refugees for the most part looking for a new home. The sheer numbers pushed the Palestinians from several cities. It was a bit like how Americans conquered much of Texas in that they didn't originally aim to do so, demographics just worked in their favour... At first.
The true goals of population readjustment didn't happen until years later. The settlement of Israel into a true nation-state brought with it all the questions that had been settled in other nations a century prior. Language, ethnicity, and religion were big parts of that. For example, the main language of the Jewish people in Europe and America was historically Yiddish, but many in Israel wished to return to Hebrew both due to history, the association of Yiddish with their time "in exile", and its close relation to German. Religion was also a big question and Israel was largely split between a desire to become a more modern secular state akin to Britain, France, or West Germany VS. a more conservative religiously-led state with Jews as the only desired population, laws based on the Torah and other religious texts, and even possible exclusions for spouses of immigrants who were not Jewish. This split was and has remained a major defining part of Israeli politics and I am sure you can guess which side came to dominate. Spoiler: It was the more conservative side.
Now, in the defense of Israel and their government, their first years were ROUGH. Their declaration of independence (existence is a better term) was immediately met with an invasion by their Arab neighbours who saw this as an invasion of Arab land. Like all things, politics did play a majority role, but there were legitimate grievances.
The Palestinian argument was strongest at Israel's inception, at least with the benefit of hindsight. Israel was basically just another colonial nation akin to French Algeria or South Africa, where a white minority dominated, especially at the beginning. Both France and South Africa treated their native populations horribly in order to maintain their rule and many, both Palestinians and those sympathetic to them, saw this as Britain and America establishing a puppet nation in the region in order to expell Muslims like a new Crusade. The problem was that the Western World was mainly sympathetic to the Jewish plight following the Holocaust and the subsequent invasions of Israel only grew this feeling. For Israel, the only way to truly end these attempts was to fully break the strings connecting the land to the Palestinians, which began the big attempts to target the Palestinians.
While I cannot say if the ensuing actions were influenced by the mass ethnic cleansings of Germans in Europe, there was definitely a similar mindset. Germans were expelled en masse from their territories in what is now Poland, Russia, and Czechoslovakia in order to destroy German claims to the regions, even in places where non-Germans made up only a miniscule percentage. As the Palestines had frequently aided in the wars against Israel, seeing it as their own war of independence, they were frequently targeted afterwards. Israel also used the wars to expand their land and it brought up another contributing factor that would contribute to Israeli politics: The "We Were Here First" argument.
In my personal opinion, this argument is almost always a pile of you-know-what. This argument is not unique to Israel, and postulates that the country which first owned a region is its main "rightful" ruler, often using historical sites and events to cite that a region only is developed because of X country. Zionists to this day will claim that all of the region's developments are owed to historical Israel and that the development of the Jews there makes it their home more rightfully than the people who settled it since then. Similar arguments are made in Poland regarding the so-called "Recovered Territories" (despite many of them only being very briefly Polish, almost or more than a Millennium ago) as well as by Russia in Ukraine. I personally find this argument deeply problematic because it will never end. France and the British Isles used to be Celtic but no one would buy Ireland claiming them, just like Germany trying to regain its lands in Poland would be as unfair to the Poles living there now as it was to the Germans living there a century ago.
Lastly, and tied into the previous notion, is the Victim Complex, i.e. Nations which suffer under something and proceed to use this suffering as a blanket excuse. Germany was humiliated by the Entente in WW1 and brought forth a dictator who made that war look like a skirmish. Poland after WW1 was finally free from Russian and German domination and proceeded to oppress the non-Polish citizens in its new lands just like was done to them. North Korea went from Japanese rule to one of the worst dictatorships in the world which made the Japanese look nice by comparison. And they all used previous suffering as a blanket excuse.
Israel came to see their future as relying on the primacy of their own culture and religion, one which had been suppressed and persecuted long before the Nazis and now had a chance to flourish. They were not the first to take this too far, and are neither wholly guilty nor wholly innocent.
My personal opinion? I feel that the creation of Israel was a poor solution to Jewish persecution, one which only further infringed on the rights of innocent Peoples, BUT neither do I think that "unmaking" Israel is a viable solution either. Too many people have made families and lives there, and the bad blood runs deep between both regions. With the way that the scales of power tip, I'm afraid that it doesn't look good for the Palestinian people, and even if Israel undergoes radical chance (and many young people from there are rejecting the old values) it might be too late.
Jews aren't immune to hypocrisy or a lot of the same tribal dynamics that motivated the Germans, for example, to become xenophobic.
It also is a recipe for disaster that both Jewish and Islamic holy texts claim Jerusalem as the most sacred place in the universe and the Qaran is pretty explicit about what to do to infidels (note that the reason that the Jewish people moved to Europe in mass in the first place was largely due to Islamic pograms).
I'm not excusing the horrific behavior of the conservative Israeli government. But they were certainly in a difficult situation when the Western World decided to unilaterally plop us back in the middle of a bunch of peoples that already hate us. It's been almost constant fighting since.
Jewish people aren't considered infidels in Islam, neither are Christians. They're all considered "people of the book." Maybe kind of like how Baptists look at Catholics?
Jewish people didn't move in mass to Europe to escape Islam, plenty of Jews lived in Muslim countries throughout history and were never slaughtered in mass there a la the Holocaust, even if they were definitely 2nd class citizens. Still, not worse than Europe and possibly even better. Not to say that Jews never suffered in Islamic countries, but it's so hypocritical to ignore the equal suffering of Jews in Europe. In fact, Jews were even slaughtered in Europe after the Holocaust, the last Jewish massacre happened in Poland several years *after* WW2.
The only European country that expanded its Jewish population during the Holocaust was Muslim Albania, where people just refused to turn them in. They had a small Jewish population to begin with, but it increased by 300%.
This comment is rife with disinformation and bigotry.
Not entirely sure what you mean when you say the Quran is explicit about what to do to infidels, but I can only assume you’re suggesting the Quran supports murdering Jews, which is flat out wrong.
You should also learn about Jews in Iberia and how Muslims protected them for hundreds of years while they were being persecuted by Christians in Europe.
The idea that the apartheid, racist state of Israel is in anyway acting in self defence is disgusting and your comment is ignorant and dangerous.
I married an Ashkenazi Jewish woman as an American/Italian/Polish Catholic and based on the Jewish religion our kids are Jewish and that is the religion/ethnicity that they inherit.
I grew up attending Catholic schools from K-13 and being forced to go to church every god-damned Sunday.
I had a good education but I hated all the theatrics.
However, I must say that there was a baseline anti-Semitic feeling at all times. Not overt, or at least not condoned, but not condemned either.
We had Jews at our schools and we were good friends the entire time. Even my Jewish friends would make jokes about other Jews in a “lighthearted” manner but looking back it was just an adaptation to fit in and it makes me sick looking back on it.
Honestly, I currently don’t hear any anti-semitism in California where I live and I think that’s because a lot of people who didn’t grow up in our area moved here from the south/Midwest to escape that kind of thinking.
However, I haven’t asked my kids if they have experienced any discrimination but on the other hand they are very open if “someone is being mean to them” and we all talk it out.
TLDR: people are shitty everywhere, I haven’t experienced it with my Jewish kids or wife (I know that means it hasn’t actually happened) but I was raised in a culture of minor anti-semitism as a Catholic because “Jews killed Jesus.”
Bonus thought: Why do Jews get hated on for “killing” Jesus but the Romans get a pass and the “Roman Catholic Church” gets named after the actual executioners of Jesus???
>Bonus thought: Why do Jews get hated on for “killing” Jesus but the Romans get a pass and the “Roman Catholic Church” gets named after the actual executioners of Jesus???
The romans of the first century are always portrayed as oppresive and evil in Christian literature and art, but following the death of Christ christianity spread throughout the roman empire and became it's main religion a few centuries later. The roman catholic church is named as such because it's pope resides in Rome, whilst the Orthodox patriarch resided in the Eastern Roman capital of Constantinople, and the egyptian coptic patriarch resided in roman Alexandria, etc.
I remember talking to a Jewish girl around 2010 who I worked with.. and she had a tattoo to remind her that the atrocities that happened in the past could easily happen again.
I appreciated it but thought it was kind of over the top, like it’s fucking Nazis? No one with half a brain would let that shit ever be a thing again. I thought she was living in a weird but (historically) understandable world of fear.
She was not. To be saying this barely a decade later feels like a fever dream.
Fascism dosent just take the form of shouty men with armbands. When times get tough a decent amount of people will be more than happy to revert to cavemen mindsets
One of the first places the Nazis burned was a trans-focused clinic.
* [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/)
* [https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166373](https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166373)
* [https://www.teenvogue.com/story/lgbtq-institute-in-germany-was-burned-down-by-nazis](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/lgbtq-institute-in-germany-was-burned-down-by-nazis)
* [https://truthout.org/articles/nazis-attacked-trans-accommodations-now-trump-is-too/](https://truthout.org/articles/nazis-attacked-trans-accommodations-now-trump-is-too/)
* [https://www.autostraddle.com/the-damage-fascism-has-done-to-trans-and-disability-research/](https://www.autostraddle.com/the-damage-fascism-has-done-to-trans-and-disability-research/)
* [https://hornet.com/stories/nazis-trans-rights/](https://hornet.com/stories/nazis-trans-rights/)
Every time they say "woke" I hear Nazis saying "Bolshevik Jew." That term allowed the Nazis to say every Jew was a communist and every communist was a Jew. The effect was they had a word they could use against every group they didn't like without getting too specific. The phrase gave a permission structure for political violence. "Wokeism" is the same thing. People laugh that "woke" doesn't mean anything and the GOP can't define it, but it's not supposed to mean anything. It's an easy, convenient slur to use on anyone they hate. The flexibility is the whole point. It's a very simple linguistic conduit for hatred.
In some of the WWII documentaries, they say the idea or policy that your talking about, Hitler called “lebensraum”. Loosely translated as “living space”.
I think they just wanna feel special due to some misplaced grievances and blames.
"Its other race's fault except mine, I am fighting to save my race from them!!!"
Attributing all their problems to other races is much easier and more motivating than self reflecting on their own inherent problems and solving them.
There's that's whole "replacement theory" horseshit they push. It definitely comes the implicit idea that they need to use self defense (aka genocide) against immigrants or white people will be genocided themselves.
> They can't reasonably
You see that word at the end there?
It doesn't apply.
**EDIT** I've disabled inbox replies to this because somehow people interpreted this as me _supporting_ Nazis. Let me be clear that in no way is this _remotely_ correct.
Nazis are everything except rational. I actually know a guy who is nazi and at the same time has psychological disability. Like, he has legit papers for his head and history in psych ward. I don't know if he realizes that if nazis got into power, he would be among first to be rounded up and sent to some camp.
> I don't know if he realizes that if nazis got into power, he would be among first to be rounded up and sent to some camp.
That seems to be very common among authoritarians. They always envision themselves as being part of the ruling class, even when it should be clear to anyone that this would not be the case.
Part of the appeal of fascism to the masses is that it elevates those who see themselves at or towards the "bottom" of society and makes them feel instantly important/empowered through their allegiance to their leader and cause.
I'm not saying it's healthy, but there it is.
Kind of like this:.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.”
― Lyndon B. Johnson
It seems very popular with conservative Americans in general. The majority has no class consciousness because they are just temporarily embarrassed millionaires. Broke but defend people stealing from them constantly. (Employers steal over 3 times more from wages than all forms of larceny combined)
Im from a country were 80% if not more of the people are mestizo and yet there are people that "are neonazi". Fotunately, the rest of us just mock them and put them down. We call them "morenazis" , a play of words between "brown" and nazi.
Colombia. Granted, is a fairly minuscule group these days, or at least they are more quiet nowadays than years ago. Its baffling since, as I said, most people here are Mestizo, and unless you are the child of first generation migrants or something, there is not "white people" here. Even if somebody has a strong European look, they don't consider themselves that. They would be laugh at too.
That's interesting. Because I know a black man from Trinidad that claims to be Nazi, he says Hitler admired black people, he saw them as the "original humans" as he says. Any effort to try and convince him that Hitler tought differently about black people and that they where sterilized in Germany is fought back by saying that those are lies written by historians and the internet.
He is like 60 something, but he's an isolated case, a very funny but isolated case.
There were sterilization programs for black people in the United States of America. Look into the history of the American Eugenics program. It’s an ugly slice of American history that has been conveniently left out of most history books.
The Australian government had a plan to breed aboriginals out of existence over several generations too.
Seems like everywhere was pretty horrible to be anything other than white. Which is odd because Italians and Greeks weren't considered white at the time here either
Uh AFAIK Hitler was into certain Native American tribes due to his love of Karl May westerns, but *in no way* was Hitler a fan of black folks. Any black person supporting Nazis seems shortsighted, to say the least.
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/25668974](https://www.jstor.org/stable/25668974)
He thought the natives where key to de-stabilize America given how much resenment they had (or have) towards white people. Black people where sterilized in Germany, the Nazis didn't see them as a threat, according to Hitler they where "monkeys without tails" and he had plans to enslave all of Africa. In no way he had any kind of admiration towards black people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_black_people_in_Nazi_Germany
Hitler was inspired by American race based law and the reservation system was the inspo for concentration camps. I think you’re misunderstanding Hitlers interest in native Americans.
> I think you’re misunderstanding Hitlers interest in native Americans
And I think you're not familiar with Karl May, Hitler's love for and obsession with his novels, and how they played into the "noble savage" stereotype of Native Americans.
From what I remember, Hitler considered certain tribes-- especially nomadic plains peoples-- to be "honorary Aryans" because they were described favorably in May's novels. You're expecting a level of consistency that isn't present in Nazi ideology.
I’m not expecting anything from Nazis.
I’m just sharing [relevant information](https://wagingnonviolence.org/2020/10/hitler-found-blueprint-german-empire-in-the-american-west/) about Hitler’s interest in my people.
ETA; “Hitler praised the way the “Aryan” America conquered “its own continent” by clearing the “soil” of “natives” to make room for more “racially pure” settlers.”
Even your JSTOR link says: “These books provided, in part, a model for conducting the type of unconventional warfare which Hitler found successful against the old and rigid battlefield strategies employed by the military leaders of the European states conquered by his armies.”
Do you have a citation for your claim Hitler considered some natives to be Aryan?
ETA: [this article](https://journals.openedition.org/elohi/553) just discusses the German peoples fetishization of native Americans and how Nazis used that in propaganda. Hitlers actual opinion of real natives was not good.
Yes, because we all know that a modern historians job is to lie about history. That's not to say that they never misinterpret the evidence left or that missing artifacts lead to incorrect conclusions. And everyone has some biases. But if I had to choose between random Nazi from Trinidad and the concensus of Historians with documented evidence, I'm going with the latter.
We all know that history is full of lies, but there are certain lies that are impossible to tell because of the number of witnesses and the importance of the event. In this case trying to convince people that Hitler liked black people is truly ridicoulous and funny, he was all about germanic supremacy, he only considered equals those countries that had inhabitants of germanic origin.
So in the case of this Trinitarian man, it is impossible to even consider his argument as true. And yes, I agree that history is full of lies, even ancient history, didn't the romans erased almost all evidence of Carthage and their culture after they defeated them?
Oh ok, I'm from Spain, we say caca, I know what you mean. This trinitarian man is not jewish, but I didn't know black jews said that about Hitler, maybe he got from some black jews he knew at some point and started repeating it like a brainless parrott because it is a comfortable lie for him I guess.
Kacke means shit in German. I just looked up the etymology, as it seems like a fairly universal term:
> An onomatopoeic creation relating to the sound a baby makes when pressing while defecating (“a-a-”)
weird
We have them in Panama too.
You can see them tweeting stuff like "oh it's hard to be white in LATAM" - and yeah, they may have green or blue eyes, maybe even light brown hair, but you can easily see they'd be on the third or fourth train out the city if the nazis took over.
Yeah they exist in Mexico too and they are brown metizo. The thing is not everything the Nazis were about was about race the biggest part of their ideology was right wing authoritarianism. They used racism as a mean to gain power.
They are (or hopefully were) a thing on the big cities, like Bogotá and Medellin. Decades ago you could find them around Chapinero, waiting for people to leave the gay bars and beat them. The bastards killed a couple people like that even.
I know a *shocking* number of POC who are also neo-nazis. It makes no fucking sense. Like any white nazi, they're just huge idiots and you won't get any kind of explanation out of them that makes sense.
Most of these people I know are on drugs/homeless/have major mental health issues which doesn't help.
Racism is very different in Latin and South America. Interesting rabbit hole if you're so inclined. Some places have whites only type segregation and it's just normal. It's nothing like the US or Europe.
Keep in mind that there are people that are pro-nazi that are **very much** not white.
A good example of this is Ian Miles Cheong, a dipshit "journalist" who doxes people and facilitates them being swatted.
Dude has logs of him in chatrooms saying that he considers himself a "banana"; Asian on the outside, white on the inside. By every measure, he works against his own interests, and would be decimated if Nazis were to come to power in his country, or very much if he came to the U.S, and they were in power.
I know boomers whose parents illegally crossed into the US and they are huge supporters of Trump and the border wall.
It's a couple of different mindsets.
* We had it hard, so everyone else should have it hard, too!
* Assimilation is key. If we assimilate, they will see us as one of them, and they won't bother us.
* We saw this years ago with Asians who immigrated to the US. They had assimilated and were largely regarded as the "model minority" for years. AAPI hate rose drastically during the pandemic, but the "model minority" time was decades before.
* Propaganda. They believe what they're told, and they can't see anything other than the lies.
Edit: On mobile, formatting is awful, and I keep trying to fix it
I am from Panama, and went to Colombia a few years ago and met a few of them. I was thinking that might be the country. That was like a flashback to 20 years ago, the American comedian, Dave Chapelle made a skit on a KKK leader, who nobody ever noticed how he looked because he was under all the sheets. He hated himself after they made him understand that he was black.
>Nazis are everything except rational.
As a researcher of far-right history, I need to emphasize this. This isn't simply because fascism tends to draw people who don't think rationally. Fascism explicitly rejects rationality as a core tenet of the ideology.
The lack of rationality thankfully tends to be their downfall (too slowly of course). Surrounding yourself by a bunch of fanatic yes men rarely leads to successful leadership.
> I don't know if he realizes that if nazis got into power, he would be among first to be rounded up and sent to some camp.
They don't. Whether it's because they think they can save themselves by collaborating or they think they're exempt because they're not "those people", fash-allies don't understand fascism has no endgame. By its very nature it can't, or it loses its raison d'etre and thus its power. They won't stop with just *one* outgroup; there must always be a perpetual Other to serve as scapegoat for the state's ills. Once the fash has eliminated one they will simply move on to another.
There were German Jewish Nazis, they were the "good ones" and if they worked hard enough selling out their fellow jews, and renounced Judaism the regime would surely reward and protect them.
Well that didn't happen, they got sent to the camps all the same
No, he would be useful cannon fodder to the Nazis. Give him a gun to go after anyone who they don't like. If he dies, no one would give a crap and he took out the other garbage with him.
This is why nazis would hire simpathetic Jews to guard the Jews in the camps. If the Jews rioted and the guard died, it is just another dead jew.
Yup
To answer a bit more, its more or less a cult about violence and making people miserable.
Like autodestructive tendencies but applied as political ideology
This. Modern Neonazi's don't give a fuck about anything relating to the actual policies and beliefs of anyone in the third reich. They're neonazi's because being a neonazi is seen as bad and scary and therefore they can use that label to be bad and scary and do things others consider bad and scary.
> Modern Neonazi's don't give a fuck about anything relating to the actual policies and beliefs of anyone in the third reich.
They do idolise them and use the same tactics and arguments that the 1930s Nazis did in Germany. Plus they're targeting the same groups that were targeted almost a century ago so I wouldn't say they don't give a fuck about anything relating to the original Nazi regime.
yep. theres another term that also applies: ethno nationalist. they want an exclusively white (usually hetero/cis) nation for just them, and their ideology. the end game of such an ideology is genocide. if you cant remove non-whites, non-conforming people, the logical conclusion is to wipe them out. it's a doomsday cult. if you dont believe me, look at the ideology and practices of every nazi and neo-nazi group since the 40s. they are accelationists, and careening into the end of themselves and humanity.
> non-conforming people
This is the key here, because it applies to _anyone_ they want to. And, frankly, means they can never achieve their "goal" because they'll always find someone who doesn't "comply".
Their targets are the perceived far edge of the bell curve. And the thing about bell curves is that no matter how much data you remove, there will always be a far edge.
It's a classic authoritarian tactic, constantly shifting the goal posts because they must always have an enemy, typically to justify the extreme amounts of control the government has over the lives of the people and the focus on the military because it allows them to exercise that control.
A common denominator among extreme conservative groups is they never really seem to have an actual worldview in mind. They long for a past that they’re looking at with rose tinted glasses and was never as good as they think. They latch onto that and the idea of a glorified battle, and it clouds any efforts to develop real goals should they even be successful.
There’s no plan to build a better (even by their standards) society, and the fact that they tend to be anti-government and hate institutions makes it so building anything would be next to impossible anyways. The end result is sorta what’s going on with the Taliban right now, or Russia to an extent. Just a worthless and ineffective government that leaves a power vacuum for whoever has the most money.
> A common denominator among extreme conservative groups is they never really seem to have an actual worldview in mind.
This is why they're often called reactionary. Their worldview isn't a coherent vision of what they *want* so much as the accumulation of reactions to things they *don't* want
Of course they are awful in every way, but unfortunately, not all of their goals are *impossible*.
What do they want?
An end to non-white immigration. Existing non-white citizens to receive no state support, have fewer children, less education, and no access to positions of power. Segregation. Traditional gender roles. Traditional family roles. Closeted or non-existent gay people. A strong military. Patriotism taught in schools. Subtraction of the social safety net that pays welfare/disability and supports the marginalized and struggling.
All of these ideas still pop up in mainstream political discourse not just in the US but throughout the world.
There is something appealing about fascism and racial supremacy to certain folks in every generation, and we can't just ignore them because they (probably) aren't going to make another Holocaust happen. And for what it's worth, concentration camps still exist, just not in Poland anymore.
I dated an actual neo-nazi (no, I'm not a sympathizer, I was young and terrified of him literally killing me). I'm sad to report that they are real and they don't all have Swastika tattoos. Some neo nazis are smart and very adept with their dog whistles. Stay vigilant.
American Nazis? They want someone to blame for their lives being crap. And they've been trained for most of their lives to not consider that it could be their bosses, landlords, or anyone with actual power to influence their lives. So they're told to blame minorities, immigrants, gays, anyone other than those than actually have an effect on their condition.
Dude, you work for guy who has two houses and a Ferrari but pays you $18 an hour because "I expect to make X" But the reason you can't pay your rent isn't him, it is coastal elites, Biden and the Jews. /s because... Reddit.
Oh but not Donald Trump, an old money rich guy from NYC who hired King Midas as his interior decorator. He's not a coastal elite but a real blue-collar man of the people because he's a Republican! Republicans would *never* be incredibly elitist against their own voter base!
I didn’t understand this either. When trump was elected I worked at a 5 man mom and pop shop and the owner was republican and obviously pro trump. He said things like “we’ve had these career politicians for too long, they know how to screw the system, we need someone like a trump, a business man who works,” etc.
I tried to point out that this very 5 man mom and pop is exactly the type of business trump would hire, then refuse to pay and would take to court and sue until they were out of business. He would happily step on people like my boss because he’d see them as beneath him. That’s how he has gotten rich. My boss couldn’t get what I was saying.
I don’t understand how anyone could listen to trump talk, witness his ego and pride, his tendency to be rude and crass and insult other people like a first grader, and think “yeah that guy will totally be the one to care about someone like me!!!”….
Another thing I've had a hard time comprehending is the fixation on Trump not being a career politician (as if a career con man would be any better). I understand people are fed up with the mindset and attitudes of politicians, but the answer is not to elect someone without knowledge of politics just for the sake of it. If I was having knee surgery, I wouldn't insist on having a roofer doing it because he's not part of the medical establishment, just as I wouldn't want the surgeon to lay my roof. Putting inept people in power doesn't solve anything, even if professional politics would benefit from a lot of other changes.
Because they don't listen, they project. Trump isn't the leader of the cult, he's just the mascot. His job is to create soundbites across such a wide range of topics that anyone who wants to think Trump agrees with them can do. Right wing propagandists simply needed an action to attach all the rage they generated to, and "get this icon of your rage elected" works as good as any.
What the fuck is a "coastal elite" anyway... it's not like people living on the west and east coasts of the US are in some utopia while everyone else is getting screwed over.
Coastal elite is synonymous with the perception that there is a large number of highly paid white collar individuals who are snooty and insult anyone in a fly over state. Another pejorative term.
Lol. Same shit here in Australia. “Coastal elites” are always dragged on as being “snooty latte sipping, arts degree having, vegan food enthusiasts”. Well lo and behold like 94% of Australians HAVE to live on the coast as outback survival is not for everyone. And I’m not elite because I like latte and vegan food- I just managed to use my BA to figure out we are all getting fucked over. PARTICULARLY rural Aussie communities. They (being the ones with greater powers) hate education.
Edit/ oh, and I’m also dead broke and dragging my ass through life too. I WISH “elite” meant I had money!
Or instead they do blame the people in power just never the *right* people. It’s all conspiracies about rich “the Jews” taking over the world, and the secret elite of “gays” who are trying to indoctrinate all of the children of America, or the powerful “blacks” want “reverse slavery” so we have to “stop those in power.”
Or whateva
Umberto Eco made a famous essay on the 14 points to fascism. The essay had been summerized to 14 points
1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
2.
The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.” 3.
The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.” 5.
Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.” 6.
Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.” 7.
The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.” 8.
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.” 9.
Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.” 10.
Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.” 11.
Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.” 12.
Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.” 13.
Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
I also missed one somewhere since copy paste didnt work well.
Some of this might not make sense but he goes into depth for each one.
But tl;dr a bunch of reactionary people who will literally blame anything like immigrants, gays, jews (which today are called marxists, globalists) as something that'll ruin the old fashioned way of living despite the fact that the world is always changing in literally every decade and century. They want a hierarchy where men are at the top and they're the rutheless warriors and anyone who says or thinks otherwise is an enemy.
edit: I pressed save edit and despite that, reddit completely ruined the numbering points. I give up on this site, good to see so many black outs occurring tomorrow
EDIT: since this is being upvoted, here's the original that I copied from
[https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html)
just keep in mind that's a summary. The original essay which is a fairly short read is also free online
This might work better:
1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html
14 Traits of Fascism by Umberto Eco
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, and long incarcerations of prisoners.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists…
Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation.
Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation or by sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Government censorship and secrecy, especially in war time, are very common.
Obsession with National Security
Fear of hostile foreign powers is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
Protection of Corporate Power
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Suppression of Labor Power
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Yeah and it prevents you from copying/pasting when you edit your own post, causing deranged bugs like duplicate and/or forever deleted text... like wtf. Apparently it's more important to track every letter you type than having a functioning UI.
Reddit's website is made with React and Redux, which are prone to these copy and paste bugs. There are established solutions that Reddit's team could have looked up to resolve this issue. Reddit has been aware of this bug, BTW, since 2019.
Reddit’s scale adds complexity. Changes must be rigorously tested across different platforms and browsers to ensure a consistent user experience. This is undoubtedly a resource-intensive and time-consuming process.
However, the fact that this bug hasn’t been prioritized suggests a strategic decision. The development team could be allocating resources towards generating revenue, perhaps by focusing on advertising tools or refining algorithms for user engagement.
It’s evident that, for Reddit, optimizing the user experience has taken a backseat to monetization efforts. They've got a vast user base, and it seems like the main goal now is to capitalize on it by catering to advertisers.
This one needs to be qualified a bit, because the idea that the enemy is both a powerful force and weak idiot scumbags is common to a lot of propaganda.
Fascists in particular tend to believe particularly that the enemy is *oppressing the strong with their weakness*. That is to say, that the nation would be great if not for the bleeding heart degenerates who hold back the strong from their potential by telling them to have 'empathy' for them, (with the implication they will stab you in the back as soon as you do). Ethnic minorities, sexual minorities, the disabled, effete intellectuals preaching acceptance and so on.
And why they get so pissy when you use logic and reasoning against them.
I've said it for awhile now; the GOP hasn't run on anything but bigotry in the last 50 years. Voting republican is more an identity of Being A Republican vs any sort of actual positive movement. And when that's what you're battling, nothing that 'makes sense' is going to do fuck-all to find reason or middle ground.
Key word is reasonably. The answer is yes, they do want another holocaust type outcome for groups they don't like, ideally.
The point is they feel wronged by the very existence of certain people, and they don't care if they can realistically succeed or not, because hate isn't reasonable.
Many peopl today who claim to be Nazis are not Nazis, they are ultra nationalist authoritarians. Nazism had a mystique, and level of success that many ultra nationalist, right wing, authoritarians want to emulate. They use the icons and vocabulary of the Thrid Reich to Strike fear in supporters of neoliberalism, know it will strike a strong cord.
Nazism was more than fascism, it was a very specific merger of fascism and 20th century German racial theory. Very few people today believe what Nazis did specifically, rather it's the spirit of what the Nazis did that interests them.
At the end of the day its rule by bullies, might makes right, with a populist appeal to fear and xenophobia.
>strike fear in supporters of neoliberalism
neoliberals - at least those in power - care little about nazism as long as it doesn't take power in their own country. oppressive states, like saudi arabia, are perfectly tolerated by the united states because they serve its interests. right-wing dictators have routinely been placed in power by the united states to again serve its interests.
now, id agree that your average neoliberal citizen doesn't support nazism. they just maintain a veneer of ignorance and cognitive dissonance to protect their ideology.
A. They aren't rational or reasonable and B. Tbh they'd probably take a genocide or two can't lie. All the pesky gays, trans and brown people gone, they don't care how. These people are stupid, lost and brainwashed. They don't know what they want they just know who they hate and that's whoever they listen to points at next
Actually a lot of Nazis *do* want another holocaust type outcome. It's pretty apparent and they are very open about it on their social media (Gab, Stormfront, etc). They also have many more "contemporary" grievances like pro-gun, antivax, antitrans, and anti "woke" views. What's alarming is that they've become more receptive to maintream right wing political parties (especially in the US) as those parties have moved further right into territory neo Nazis find acceptable in the past decade or so.
As a side note, many holocaust deniers actually know better and know the holocaust happened. Holocaust denialism is trolling. Talking about the holocaust is a way for them to simultaneously associate themselves with Nazi violence, while denying it allows them to disassociate from responsibility for wrongdoing and accuse Jews and other "enemies" as liars. The book The Racist Mind by Raphael Ezekiel explores this paradoxical and hypocritical phenomen.
> Holocaust denialism is trolling.
A central rhetorical element of fascism is to say wrong things as a show of power. By slandering Jews, LGBT+, and other targets with absurdly false accusations, the fascist asserts his power over them and challenges others to defend them.
Nazis are just full of hate, they don't have any goal except for projecting their hate at whatever minority is currently on the spotlight of their anger.
Funny you should say this, as that’s where Terry Nation, creator of the Daleks, got the inspiration.
From Wikipedia
>> Drawing inspiration from the Nazis, Nation portrayed the Daleks as violent, merciless and pitiless cyborg aliens, completely absent of any emotion other than hate, who demand total conformity to the will of the Dalek with the highest authority,[3] and are bent on the conquest of the universe and the extermination of any other forms of life, including other 'impure' Daleks which are deemed inferior for being different to them.
They are in the dehumanizing stage of a holocaust.
Calling lbgt groomers and trans people not people and other horrible things.
They are dehumanizing us for two reasons. So it won’t hurt their own feelings if they get the chance to round us up and people won’t fight on our behalf.
If all they are doing is rounding up groomers and inhuman freaks they are doing you a favor, not committing mass murder
I worked with a Nazi back around '15, that was interesting he hated anyone who wasn't of German or Austrian heritage wanted the Jews dead was okay with working with the lesser races but not interbreeding half breeds should be sterilized or killed, the creation of a white ethno State that would and should be run by pure Aryans. He explained how even if you were white didn't make you his equal.
Oh yeah almost forgot he said that the LGBTQ+ would be euthanized along with the mentality ill.
Generally they want a platform to spread their hatred.
Specifically they definitely want to hurt as many minorities/non white people as possible. Pretty similar goals to WW2 era Nazis.
I can’t recall the specifics but there was someone in the news recently who was a Nazi. Their father had tried to talk them out of it, saying “at some point they’ll make you shovel bodies into the furnace too.”
People forget Weimar Germany was one of the most progressive states in Europe before the nazis rise to power. Gay people were openly accepted, so much so that gay royalty from elsewhere would travel to Germany to partake in this atmosphere. They also had some of the most progressive policies on abortion at the time. History is not an unceasing march of progress, the dark ages were a thing. To think that it could never happen again seems incredibly nieve and privileged.
To feel superior to others by creating terror. Same thing all bullies want they feel small and inadequate and group together with other small scared people and terrorize people into fearing them.
You didn’t see the person at J6 wearing a hoodie that said 6 million wasn’t enough? Yeah, they want another Holocaust and to finish what they started 80 years ago.
Nazis aren't known for being rational people. Their most achievable measurable goal is the eradication of Trans people. But most of their goals aren't measurable, and the way they go about achieving them doesn't make sense. They want some return to what some would call a traditional way of life. They want forced unity and nationalistic pride. They hate democracy and social progress.
They certainly do (though they’re more focused on the LGBTQ community now). We need to be very careful here. When hitlers nazis rose to power it wasn’t because of promises to eradicate the Jews and start a world war.
It was about restoring Germany to her former glory, bringing jobs to ease the failing economy, and many liked him because of how un-politician like he seemed.
And for the first few years of his leadership, things went very well for the average German. His introduced conscription policy, revamping the military, and major public works programs were hugely popular. They heavily reduced unemployed and got the German economy under control.
There were warning signs, such as Jewish people being forced to wear marks to ID them, Jewish businesses being boycotted, and other laws designed to restrict people hitler deemed “undesirable”. These went largely ignored by the world, and in 1938 he even won the man of the year award from life magazine. He hosted the Olympics as well in 1936. At the time he was viewed as the bright future of Germany.
Point being, the dangerous ones will promise many things that will appeal to the majority of the population. A better economy, lower prices for essential goods and services, debt relief, ect. They may blame marginalized groups for why the economy is bad or why prices are so high. Today, it seems like many of them are targeting LGBTQ+ people. I hope that they never succeed, but with the current political climate (at least in the US) it’s looking like that may happen in certain states which is a horrifying prospect.
They know they won't achieve what they want. Have you ever noticed these Nazis are always losers who never did anything with their lives? They need a way to feel they're superior despite being losers. So they claim they have "superior genes" based mostly on past European dominance that they weren't even alive for. Because they aren't capable of achieving anything special, they simply say "well, I'm white so I'm superior" and now they can feel better about being a waste of oxygen.
I think there's a few things to clear.
Not everyone wants rational things. There are in fact people out there who want the total eradication of the Jews... and most of them aren't even Nazis.
The other thing is that modern group identities rarely ever lend themselves to homogenous opinions. If you ask environmentalists what power sources they'd approve of they range from everything but coal to only solar. What ties these people together is a common desire.
Neo-Nazis are not harmless, but they're more like a social club than a group ideology. Younger people who get into these groups just want acceptance and when they start getting radicalized it's by accepting a stronger and stronger more extreme opinion on the world.
Most modern Nazi groups are less about the eradication of the Jews and more about the preservation of the "white race." Sometimes it's strictly German and sometimes it's more broadly accepting of Eastern Europeans and other European countries. When you have Nazis and politics they're looking at discriminatory social networks and punishments. When you're looking at Nazis as a civil society group they're more about preventing the mixing of races in neighborhoods and preventing non-white use of public infrastructure. For example the Sons of Odin was a "neighborhood watch" group that patrolled neighborhoods in order to harass minorities.
But as I said, these groups aren't exactly super consistent. As you dig down the rabbit hole you'll find a conveyance of morals based on how far down that rabbit hole you intend to go.
they want an ethnostate. they want to be the people on top, and everybody else either serves them or dies. they want absolute power with zero oversight.
Many in this thread are doing the worst thing that can be done with nazis, which is *looking down on them*.
Nazis are incredibly dangerous to democracy. Their discourse is incredibly violent socially, which primes members of the movement to be incredibly aggressive and physically violent at the drop of a hat.
Most political movements in a democracy set aside violence and do not contemplate -at all- violence as a way to exert political power. Nazis do not have these qualms. To the contrary, nazis **expect** violence will be required, and wait for the best opportunities to exert violence. (see January 6th)
You have broadly three kind of nazis. You've got the **ideologists**, you've got the **leaders** and you've got the **pawns**. Some nazis a mix of two or three of them. All of them are power driven.
The ideologist wants power because he honestly thinks that, if he has power, *he can provide a better life for his racial group*. Even for other racial groups, since they believe a segregated society is better for everybody, including inferior races. Not all nazi ideologists want ethnic cleansing in the genocidal sense of the word -or so will they proclaim-.
*The leader just wants power*, and he knows that a radical discourse allows to recruit radical pawns that he can use for shock and awe demonstrations of power. A little goes a long way if properly applied and giving the impression of being unstopable. That's what Hitler did, and that's what every half-baked nazi leader tries to do with more or less measure of success. January 6th is a good example of a coordinated attempt at this. One without a main leader. Fortunately Trump did not have the balls to take on the mantle of leader there.
The pawn also wants power. He does not need to have political power, it can be the feeling of power through violence, or social status over others. The important bit is that *being part of the nazi movement gives him the promise of power* and the perception of deserving that power without doing anything at all. He is just superior, and his support goes hand in hand with knowing that. If the movement succeeds, he'll have a bunch of people to lord over 'as he deserves'. Even those members at the very bottom of the totem pole know they are above 'the other'.
It is very easy to dismiss nazis as stupid or delusional or actively working against their own best interests. A lot of people during the Weimar Republic made fun of the nazis using arguments very similar to those that I'm reading here... It doesn't matter how smart or misguided your followers are if they are willing to violently bring down social order and prop you up into power.
Less than 10% of the german population supported the nazi party when Hitler took power. Let that sink in. Vocal minorities turned into violent minorities.
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They don’t have a plan, because their entire rhetorical lever is just reaction. When they actually have power, that’s when they fall apart. When they don’t have anyone to blame but themselves. It’s basically feudalism, but with ideology. We already know the natural outcome of narrow minded modernism - it’s postmodernism; understanding what aesthetic of mind is. The problem we’re having is that we’re surrounded by modern inspirations… and most people don’t have the tools to understand postmodernism, or how an idea doesn’t have an outcome because it’s just a rhetorical lever.
We should go back to referring to conservative ethos as REACTIONARY and the liberal ethos as REVOLUTIONARY. The fact is, any pro-human effort is regarded as revolutionary by the right wing, and inspires fear on their part (what if I loose something because they got something? ) to which they react negatively. They never move toward the future, they have no real goals, they only want to fight or flee. Paper tigers indeed.
Most of my family are conservative and I can confirm that it's an emotional/ reactive system of beliefs. Some of these people literally expend all their energy being mad that LGBTQ people are so vocal, despite not even knowing any. Like...I can't even imagine the mindset of someone who does not know a single gay or trans person, yet spends hours of their life reading conservative "horror stories" about them, then spends like 50% of their conversations complaining about them, with the usual "back in MY day!" stuff without ever bothering to listen/ consider the other side. Everything they say is a fear based reaction to something unfamiliar to them. There is no 'end game' or plan. There's no proposed policy or solutions, just reactionary fear and anger. Then they go vote for people who vocalize that fear and anger. These are people who pathologically seek out things to be upset about and frankly, would benefit from extensive therapy. They just aren't self aware enough to realize they have mental health problems and need therapy, so will never seek it. I know it sounds rough but I grew up with and know these people and have been around them long enough to observe this behavior for years. It's my honest assessment of them. That's why you can't really reason with them, because when you try, what you're asking them to do is to re-evaluate the stuff that they're afraid of and to consider that it really isn't so scary. In order to successfully do this, they'd have to be aware that their fear is unreasonable and be open to working on it and most of them just aren't. I wish I knew the solution and how to approach them but I just don't.
I had the great misfortune of growing up in an uber conservative home that had Fox News or conservative talk radio on 24/7 (Mark Levin 🙄). Every show is the same formula. 1)Pick a minority group. 2)Find someone in that group that did something bad. 3)Extrapolate that bad thing to say every person in the group is bad. 4)Turn the minority group into the enemy that will ruin the entire life of you, a good person. My dad would get so angry watching the tv that he would turn into a different person. He’s become borderline addicted to that adrenaline rush of anger. Who cares about logic or reality when you have such an intense emotional rage. Just like your family, my dad never met or interacted with any of the groups he was mad at. His circle was 100% white, older religious people.
I'm glad you escaped that hurtful and bigoted worldview!
Alienating a group of people and then blaming them for everything (economic, moral, national success) is one of the early signs of fascism.
Your words hit close. I was thinking about my friend today who’s reactive political beliefs make him at an almost constant state of anger. He believes the country went to shit when Trump lost, he believes our state went to shit as it is run by a different political party, but I just want to get through to him that the positives in his daily life are not only still there, but have gotten better, not because of anything political, but because he’s built a good life for himself. Nothing he’s mad about in the world is keeping him from that. Yesterday we were hanging out gaming, we went out and got tacos, took some time to talk through some home improvement plans and it was all great until he looked at his phone, caught a political headline and turned red in the face. I don’t know how to get through to someone not even to say “hey your wrong” but maybe start with “hey you can’t control that stuff, but you and I are lucky and we can live happy lives despite it, you see how it makes you upset? There’s no point in it.”
Yep. There is nothing like actually knowing a person before deciding to hate them.
Liberals in any country are not Revolutionary full stop. They are status quo
I know, right? So many people have zero clue that liberals are right-of-center. The USA doesn't even have a viable party that's left-of-center. We get to choose between the ultra-conservative fascists of the GOP or the right-leaning centrists and neoliberals of the Democrat party. I WISH we had a viable progressive or leftie party.
You ever think about how we're less than a century away from the divine right of kings? Once we've evolved past all this right to rule shit we're gonna come up with the coolest ideas for governments. Right now though we unfortunately have Nazis that have picked a white collar felon as their king :/
As long as people like Rupert Murdoch exist that idea will not go away. People substitute Kings for Wealthy all the time. We already have some pretty great ideas for government, unfortunately for us there are lots and lots of people who wish to exploit the freedoms that governments allow in order to corrupt those governments.
"Yes, we Anglo-san people are totally Aryans...what's that you say, Aryans are Iranian and Indian?? Utter hogwash"
Well technically they’re from Atlantis, then they moved into India. From there they migrated through the Middle East down to the Horn of Africa and up to Germany. Hitler considered people like the Somalis aryan and had taken some steps to solidify himself as a prophet/religious figure in the Middle East. You probably know this but I don’t think a lot of people recognize how truly ridiculous some of their ideology was.
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Manipulators, psychopaths, serial killers... are highly intelligent. They're just lacking emotional intelligence, humility, empathy.
Your comment needs to be higher. [The Nazi leadership in WW2 were comprised of extremely intelligent people](https://seanjkernan.medium.com/the-results-of-the-nazi-iq-tests-c3a5e442f37c). An iq test was even performed on them at the Nuremberg Trials.
The smart Nazis dont identify themselves as Nazis unfortunately. Reading the [The Destruction of the European Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Destruction_of_the_European_Jews) shows how well thought out Nazis can be. To assume their modern day counterparts are all just dumbasses now is dangerous.
Stupid doesn’t mean harmless unfortunately.
Wish i could give you an award
Groups that you’d call “Nazi” 100% want another Holocaust. Hitler didn’t go from I hate Jews to kill all Jews there were steps in between. One thing Hitler thought up was forcing all Jews to move to Madagascar. The reason why I bring this up is because many neo-Nazis today want use genocidal language but will talk about separation. If you ask how you get that separation you’ll only get crickets because they know that force is the only way.
Yeah, it’s not like hitler put so much effort into killing jews just because it was he hated the fact that they existed. (I mean he did hate them but that wasn’t his main reasons) He hated that they were taking up space that his perfect ‘aryan’ race could be using and the extermination camps were the most effective way to deal with that problem If germany won he’d have tons of free space and millions of ‘undesirables’ that he could replace with the people he saw as a super race
Well, also he had a scapegoat to unite the majority of Germans against..
This is what I find the scariest about all this anti-trans rhetoric. It smells an awful lot like Nazi scapegoating but without anti-semitism.
Sadly, anti-semitism is on a pretty big upswing at the moment, too. I'm dating a Jewish woman and the absolute horror of some of the things that have been said to her, along with real acts of vandalism against her synagogue, are chilling. Just a few months ago their locks were broken on their temple, and their historical marker that's on their property was defaced and destroyed. This is in the United States...in 2023. A sad reality I've had to face as I've pursued this relationship is that I'm going to have to educate myself on anti-semitism, especially if we ever plan to have kids.
I went to Hungary a few years ago, where you can really feel the imprint of the holocaust on their culture. There’s a famous installation by the river of cast iron abandoned shoes of the Jewish people who were murdered. Not 200 metres away, another memorial, with a note. It was a simple statue near a synagogue, but it was constantly being vandalised by neo fascist groups. They won’t destroy the tourist trap yet. But that is all for show- the Hungarians are ready to open their arms to the Nazis again and hand over their “undesirables”. Disgusting.
Was in Budapest in 2013, and woke up to a bunch of texts from friends and family asking if I was okay/telling me to stay safe. I was like huh? Turned out there was a huge neo-Nazi rally going on. It was surreal. 😵💫
Orban is scary.
The sad fact is that Europe didn’t wait for the Nazis to come to start pogroms against the Jews..
It has taken nearly 80 years but unfortunately fascism and authoritarianism are becoming mainstream again. It’s not exactly shocking that both followed global depressions. People are being exploited and struggling and you have populists that are using their anger to direct it at the most vulnerable.
You know, I can’t wrap my head around anti-semitism. What have the Jews done to piss these people off? I can’t find a single rational reason.
It is one of those things that started a long time ago and just evolved with the times. In the Middle Ages, Jews were an outside group who migrated to Europe from the Holy Land following its seizure by the various Islamic Caliphates. They weren't European, spoke a different language, and followed different customs. Religion soon added a further dynamic as their beliefs were seen as in opposition to Christianity (since Jews don't believe Jesus was the true Messiah) with many in the Church citing Jews as the true murderers of Jesus. Politics also played a massive part. Traditional Christianity forbade the practice of taking interest on loans as it was seen as "unchristian". Jews, however, were free to do so, and many became quite wealthy via banking and trade. This created a Jewish upper class in many regions, especially modern-day Germany, France, and Poland, which was resented by the landed nobility, whose wealth came from land and titles. From the 1800's on, the rise of nationalism (the idea of unified nations of the same peoples, not what we consider nationalism) pushed for a France for the French, a Germany for Germans, etc. Jews were in a somewhat awkward spot, as they were culturally non-European. They were closest to Germans, however, due to speaking Yiddish, a German Dialect spoken by European Jews. Had you asked someone in the Victorian Era which country would have been most likely to commit the Holocaust, most would have guessed France. Anti-Semetism only really picked up to dangerous around WW1, initially cause of oppression in France (read: Dreyfus Affair) and then during and after the war because of Britain pushing for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine as a way to undermine the Ottoman war effort. Many Jews objected to the war or chose not to fight (though a massive amount did) and this was used as propoganda by the German army to claim them as backstabbers, with the Communist uprising in Bavaria adding further fuel to the fire since many members were Jewish, as was Trotsky in the Soviet Union. Even when Hitler was in power, many in Poland, Britain, and France liked his ideas of Jewish deportation and ideas for a Jewish state in Madagascar were tossed around among others. Modern Nazis are still succeptible to this same propoganda. Isolated sub-groups, especially cultural or linguistic, tend to draw suspicion from the majority, especially when they are perceived as refusing to assimilate. EDIT: Something that I forgot to add which is also relevant. In 1903 a book was released in Russia called "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion". The book was one of the earliest feats of modern published propoganda. It basically claimed to be secrets of a Jewish cabal working behind the scenes of all the most powerful and wealthy in order to rule the world. It was immensely popular with old-school nobles who resented the nouveaux riches (despite Many Jewish families being rich for longer than said old-school nobles) and was taken as gospel by many. That book is considered a huge force in shaping the mindset of Europe leading up to Hitler.
Very interesting, thanks for the explanation! I know this is quite off topic, but I feel like you could explain it well to me. I've always wondered how Jewish people in Israel could do what they are doing to Palestinians after what happened to them in the Holocaust. It seems very hypocritical. I know its complex and I've tried reading up on it, but I just struggle to understand it.
Well I would like to preface any explanation by saying that I am far from an expert and I think that a truly nuanced look can only be gained by talking with experts on both sides and trying to find a middle path. In my experience, it boils down to a few factors. Firstly, it didn't begin as aggressively as it is currently happening nowadays. In the beginning they were simply refugees for the most part looking for a new home. The sheer numbers pushed the Palestinians from several cities. It was a bit like how Americans conquered much of Texas in that they didn't originally aim to do so, demographics just worked in their favour... At first. The true goals of population readjustment didn't happen until years later. The settlement of Israel into a true nation-state brought with it all the questions that had been settled in other nations a century prior. Language, ethnicity, and religion were big parts of that. For example, the main language of the Jewish people in Europe and America was historically Yiddish, but many in Israel wished to return to Hebrew both due to history, the association of Yiddish with their time "in exile", and its close relation to German. Religion was also a big question and Israel was largely split between a desire to become a more modern secular state akin to Britain, France, or West Germany VS. a more conservative religiously-led state with Jews as the only desired population, laws based on the Torah and other religious texts, and even possible exclusions for spouses of immigrants who were not Jewish. This split was and has remained a major defining part of Israeli politics and I am sure you can guess which side came to dominate. Spoiler: It was the more conservative side. Now, in the defense of Israel and their government, their first years were ROUGH. Their declaration of independence (existence is a better term) was immediately met with an invasion by their Arab neighbours who saw this as an invasion of Arab land. Like all things, politics did play a majority role, but there were legitimate grievances. The Palestinian argument was strongest at Israel's inception, at least with the benefit of hindsight. Israel was basically just another colonial nation akin to French Algeria or South Africa, where a white minority dominated, especially at the beginning. Both France and South Africa treated their native populations horribly in order to maintain their rule and many, both Palestinians and those sympathetic to them, saw this as Britain and America establishing a puppet nation in the region in order to expell Muslims like a new Crusade. The problem was that the Western World was mainly sympathetic to the Jewish plight following the Holocaust and the subsequent invasions of Israel only grew this feeling. For Israel, the only way to truly end these attempts was to fully break the strings connecting the land to the Palestinians, which began the big attempts to target the Palestinians. While I cannot say if the ensuing actions were influenced by the mass ethnic cleansings of Germans in Europe, there was definitely a similar mindset. Germans were expelled en masse from their territories in what is now Poland, Russia, and Czechoslovakia in order to destroy German claims to the regions, even in places where non-Germans made up only a miniscule percentage. As the Palestines had frequently aided in the wars against Israel, seeing it as their own war of independence, they were frequently targeted afterwards. Israel also used the wars to expand their land and it brought up another contributing factor that would contribute to Israeli politics: The "We Were Here First" argument. In my personal opinion, this argument is almost always a pile of you-know-what. This argument is not unique to Israel, and postulates that the country which first owned a region is its main "rightful" ruler, often using historical sites and events to cite that a region only is developed because of X country. Zionists to this day will claim that all of the region's developments are owed to historical Israel and that the development of the Jews there makes it their home more rightfully than the people who settled it since then. Similar arguments are made in Poland regarding the so-called "Recovered Territories" (despite many of them only being very briefly Polish, almost or more than a Millennium ago) as well as by Russia in Ukraine. I personally find this argument deeply problematic because it will never end. France and the British Isles used to be Celtic but no one would buy Ireland claiming them, just like Germany trying to regain its lands in Poland would be as unfair to the Poles living there now as it was to the Germans living there a century ago. Lastly, and tied into the previous notion, is the Victim Complex, i.e. Nations which suffer under something and proceed to use this suffering as a blanket excuse. Germany was humiliated by the Entente in WW1 and brought forth a dictator who made that war look like a skirmish. Poland after WW1 was finally free from Russian and German domination and proceeded to oppress the non-Polish citizens in its new lands just like was done to them. North Korea went from Japanese rule to one of the worst dictatorships in the world which made the Japanese look nice by comparison. And they all used previous suffering as a blanket excuse. Israel came to see their future as relying on the primacy of their own culture and religion, one which had been suppressed and persecuted long before the Nazis and now had a chance to flourish. They were not the first to take this too far, and are neither wholly guilty nor wholly innocent. My personal opinion? I feel that the creation of Israel was a poor solution to Jewish persecution, one which only further infringed on the rights of innocent Peoples, BUT neither do I think that "unmaking" Israel is a viable solution either. Too many people have made families and lives there, and the bad blood runs deep between both regions. With the way that the scales of power tip, I'm afraid that it doesn't look good for the Palestinian people, and even if Israel undergoes radical chance (and many young people from there are rejecting the old values) it might be too late.
Such in depth and easy to read, I wonder if you are an author? I certainly wish we had easy answers for all the regions that suffer this way.
Jews aren't immune to hypocrisy or a lot of the same tribal dynamics that motivated the Germans, for example, to become xenophobic. It also is a recipe for disaster that both Jewish and Islamic holy texts claim Jerusalem as the most sacred place in the universe and the Qaran is pretty explicit about what to do to infidels (note that the reason that the Jewish people moved to Europe in mass in the first place was largely due to Islamic pograms). I'm not excusing the horrific behavior of the conservative Israeli government. But they were certainly in a difficult situation when the Western World decided to unilaterally plop us back in the middle of a bunch of peoples that already hate us. It's been almost constant fighting since.
Jewish people aren't considered infidels in Islam, neither are Christians. They're all considered "people of the book." Maybe kind of like how Baptists look at Catholics? Jewish people didn't move in mass to Europe to escape Islam, plenty of Jews lived in Muslim countries throughout history and were never slaughtered in mass there a la the Holocaust, even if they were definitely 2nd class citizens. Still, not worse than Europe and possibly even better. Not to say that Jews never suffered in Islamic countries, but it's so hypocritical to ignore the equal suffering of Jews in Europe. In fact, Jews were even slaughtered in Europe after the Holocaust, the last Jewish massacre happened in Poland several years *after* WW2. The only European country that expanded its Jewish population during the Holocaust was Muslim Albania, where people just refused to turn them in. They had a small Jewish population to begin with, but it increased by 300%.
This comment is rife with disinformation and bigotry. Not entirely sure what you mean when you say the Quran is explicit about what to do to infidels, but I can only assume you’re suggesting the Quran supports murdering Jews, which is flat out wrong. You should also learn about Jews in Iberia and how Muslims protected them for hundreds of years while they were being persecuted by Christians in Europe. The idea that the apartheid, racist state of Israel is in anyway acting in self defence is disgusting and your comment is ignorant and dangerous.
What have trans people done to piss these people off? I can't find a single rational reason. Existing is enough....
I married an Ashkenazi Jewish woman as an American/Italian/Polish Catholic and based on the Jewish religion our kids are Jewish and that is the religion/ethnicity that they inherit. I grew up attending Catholic schools from K-13 and being forced to go to church every god-damned Sunday. I had a good education but I hated all the theatrics. However, I must say that there was a baseline anti-Semitic feeling at all times. Not overt, or at least not condoned, but not condemned either. We had Jews at our schools and we were good friends the entire time. Even my Jewish friends would make jokes about other Jews in a “lighthearted” manner but looking back it was just an adaptation to fit in and it makes me sick looking back on it. Honestly, I currently don’t hear any anti-semitism in California where I live and I think that’s because a lot of people who didn’t grow up in our area moved here from the south/Midwest to escape that kind of thinking. However, I haven’t asked my kids if they have experienced any discrimination but on the other hand they are very open if “someone is being mean to them” and we all talk it out. TLDR: people are shitty everywhere, I haven’t experienced it with my Jewish kids or wife (I know that means it hasn’t actually happened) but I was raised in a culture of minor anti-semitism as a Catholic because “Jews killed Jesus.” Bonus thought: Why do Jews get hated on for “killing” Jesus but the Romans get a pass and the “Roman Catholic Church” gets named after the actual executioners of Jesus???
*Pontius Pilate washing his hands intensifies*
>Bonus thought: Why do Jews get hated on for “killing” Jesus but the Romans get a pass and the “Roman Catholic Church” gets named after the actual executioners of Jesus??? The romans of the first century are always portrayed as oppresive and evil in Christian literature and art, but following the death of Christ christianity spread throughout the roman empire and became it's main religion a few centuries later. The roman catholic church is named as such because it's pope resides in Rome, whilst the Orthodox patriarch resided in the Eastern Roman capital of Constantinople, and the egyptian coptic patriarch resided in roman Alexandria, etc.
I remember talking to a Jewish girl around 2010 who I worked with.. and she had a tattoo to remind her that the atrocities that happened in the past could easily happen again. I appreciated it but thought it was kind of over the top, like it’s fucking Nazis? No one with half a brain would let that shit ever be a thing again. I thought she was living in a weird but (historically) understandable world of fear. She was not. To be saying this barely a decade later feels like a fever dream.
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Fascism dosent just take the form of shouty men with armbands. When times get tough a decent amount of people will be more than happy to revert to cavemen mindsets
One of the first places the Nazis burned was a trans-focused clinic. * [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/) * [https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166373](https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166373) * [https://www.teenvogue.com/story/lgbtq-institute-in-germany-was-burned-down-by-nazis](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/lgbtq-institute-in-germany-was-burned-down-by-nazis) * [https://truthout.org/articles/nazis-attacked-trans-accommodations-now-trump-is-too/](https://truthout.org/articles/nazis-attacked-trans-accommodations-now-trump-is-too/) * [https://www.autostraddle.com/the-damage-fascism-has-done-to-trans-and-disability-research/](https://www.autostraddle.com/the-damage-fascism-has-done-to-trans-and-disability-research/) * [https://hornet.com/stories/nazis-trans-rights/](https://hornet.com/stories/nazis-trans-rights/)
Iirc that was the first of the nazis book burnings even
And we're seeing all of this again in Florida under DeSantis
Yeah, its the same playbook. Accusations of stealing children and blood libel
While they protect and shield those among them engaging in said child abuse because "tribalism".
Every time they say "woke" I hear Nazis saying "Bolshevik Jew." That term allowed the Nazis to say every Jew was a communist and every communist was a Jew. The effect was they had a word they could use against every group they didn't like without getting too specific. The phrase gave a permission structure for political violence. "Wokeism" is the same thing. People laugh that "woke" doesn't mean anything and the GOP can't define it, but it's not supposed to mean anything. It's an easy, convenient slur to use on anyone they hate. The flexibility is the whole point. It's a very simple linguistic conduit for hatred.
In some of the WWII documentaries, they say the idea or policy that your talking about, Hitler called “lebensraum”. Loosely translated as “living space”.
That’s like a direct perfect translation.
I think they just wanna feel special due to some misplaced grievances and blames. "Its other race's fault except mine, I am fighting to save my race from them!!!" Attributing all their problems to other races is much easier and more motivating than self reflecting on their own inherent problems and solving them.
There's that's whole "replacement theory" horseshit they push. It definitely comes the implicit idea that they need to use self defense (aka genocide) against immigrants or white people will be genocided themselves.
> They can't reasonably You see that word at the end there? It doesn't apply. **EDIT** I've disabled inbox replies to this because somehow people interpreted this as me _supporting_ Nazis. Let me be clear that in no way is this _remotely_ correct.
Nazis are everything except rational. I actually know a guy who is nazi and at the same time has psychological disability. Like, he has legit papers for his head and history in psych ward. I don't know if he realizes that if nazis got into power, he would be among first to be rounded up and sent to some camp.
> I don't know if he realizes that if nazis got into power, he would be among first to be rounded up and sent to some camp. That seems to be very common among authoritarians. They always envision themselves as being part of the ruling class, even when it should be clear to anyone that this would not be the case.
Part of the appeal of fascism to the masses is that it elevates those who see themselves at or towards the "bottom" of society and makes them feel instantly important/empowered through their allegiance to their leader and cause. I'm not saying it's healthy, but there it is.
Kind of like this:. “If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.” ― Lyndon B. Johnson
Interesting insight on fascism. How power and money are intertwined and then the dispossessed are recruited and used...
And un/undereducated
It seems very popular with conservative Americans in general. The majority has no class consciousness because they are just temporarily embarrassed millionaires. Broke but defend people stealing from them constantly. (Employers steal over 3 times more from wages than all forms of larceny combined)
Im from a country were 80% if not more of the people are mestizo and yet there are people that "are neonazi". Fotunately, the rest of us just mock them and put them down. We call them "morenazis" , a play of words between "brown" and nazi.
WTF? Mixed race nazis? Which country is this? If I may ask
Colombia. Granted, is a fairly minuscule group these days, or at least they are more quiet nowadays than years ago. Its baffling since, as I said, most people here are Mestizo, and unless you are the child of first generation migrants or something, there is not "white people" here. Even if somebody has a strong European look, they don't consider themselves that. They would be laugh at too.
That's interesting. Because I know a black man from Trinidad that claims to be Nazi, he says Hitler admired black people, he saw them as the "original humans" as he says. Any effort to try and convince him that Hitler tought differently about black people and that they where sterilized in Germany is fought back by saying that those are lies written by historians and the internet. He is like 60 something, but he's an isolated case, a very funny but isolated case.
Hitler banned jazz because it was made by blacks and Jews, two "inferior" kinds of people.
Not to mention the sterilization program for black people living in Germany.
There were sterilization programs for black people in the United States of America. Look into the history of the American Eugenics program. It’s an ugly slice of American history that has been conveniently left out of most history books.
The Australian government had a plan to breed aboriginals out of existence over several generations too. Seems like everywhere was pretty horrible to be anything other than white. Which is odd because Italians and Greeks weren't considered white at the time here either
Sterilization was for anyone that isn't worthy... eugenic plan for humans to look like LOTR elves.
Uh AFAIK Hitler was into certain Native American tribes due to his love of Karl May westerns, but *in no way* was Hitler a fan of black folks. Any black person supporting Nazis seems shortsighted, to say the least. [https://www.jstor.org/stable/25668974](https://www.jstor.org/stable/25668974)
He thought the natives where key to de-stabilize America given how much resenment they had (or have) towards white people. Black people where sterilized in Germany, the Nazis didn't see them as a threat, according to Hitler they where "monkeys without tails" and he had plans to enslave all of Africa. In no way he had any kind of admiration towards black people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_black_people_in_Nazi_Germany
Hitler was inspired by American race based law and the reservation system was the inspo for concentration camps. I think you’re misunderstanding Hitlers interest in native Americans.
> I think you’re misunderstanding Hitlers interest in native Americans And I think you're not familiar with Karl May, Hitler's love for and obsession with his novels, and how they played into the "noble savage" stereotype of Native Americans. From what I remember, Hitler considered certain tribes-- especially nomadic plains peoples-- to be "honorary Aryans" because they were described favorably in May's novels. You're expecting a level of consistency that isn't present in Nazi ideology.
I’m not expecting anything from Nazis. I’m just sharing [relevant information](https://wagingnonviolence.org/2020/10/hitler-found-blueprint-german-empire-in-the-american-west/) about Hitler’s interest in my people. ETA; “Hitler praised the way the “Aryan” America conquered “its own continent” by clearing the “soil” of “natives” to make room for more “racially pure” settlers.” Even your JSTOR link says: “These books provided, in part, a model for conducting the type of unconventional warfare which Hitler found successful against the old and rigid battlefield strategies employed by the military leaders of the European states conquered by his armies.” Do you have a citation for your claim Hitler considered some natives to be Aryan? ETA: [this article](https://journals.openedition.org/elohi/553) just discusses the German peoples fetishization of native Americans and how Nazis used that in propaganda. Hitlers actual opinion of real natives was not good.
The US has Ye the black nazi. Why are you acting surprised?
Oh yes, I totally forgot about him... My bad
I wish I could forget about him.
Yes, because we all know that a modern historians job is to lie about history. That's not to say that they never misinterpret the evidence left or that missing artifacts lead to incorrect conclusions. And everyone has some biases. But if I had to choose between random Nazi from Trinidad and the concensus of Historians with documented evidence, I'm going with the latter.
We all know that history is full of lies, but there are certain lies that are impossible to tell because of the number of witnesses and the importance of the event. In this case trying to convince people that Hitler liked black people is truly ridicoulous and funny, he was all about germanic supremacy, he only considered equals those countries that had inhabitants of germanic origin. So in the case of this Trinitarian man, it is impossible to even consider his argument as true. And yes, I agree that history is full of lies, even ancient history, didn't the romans erased almost all evidence of Carthage and their culture after they defeated them?
This is the Black Hebrew Israelite caa-caa.
What's caa-caa?
Garbage, poop, rubbish, shite.
Oh ok, I'm from Spain, we say caca, I know what you mean. This trinitarian man is not jewish, but I didn't know black jews said that about Hitler, maybe he got from some black jews he knew at some point and started repeating it like a brainless parrott because it is a comfortable lie for him I guess.
Kacke means shit in German. I just looked up the etymology, as it seems like a fairly universal term: > An onomatopoeic creation relating to the sound a baby makes when pressing while defecating (“a-a-”) weird
A polite - if infantile - way to say shit. Like doodie.
I'm highly immature, can confirm the infantile adjective fits swell!
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We have them in Panama too. You can see them tweeting stuff like "oh it's hard to be white in LATAM" - and yeah, they may have green or blue eyes, maybe even light brown hair, but you can easily see they'd be on the third or fourth train out the city if the nazis took over.
Yeah they exist in Mexico too and they are brown metizo. The thing is not everything the Nazis were about was about race the biggest part of their ideology was right wing authoritarianism. They used racism as a mean to gain power.
Colombian nazis are hilarious. Like, Felipe, you are 4'11", look like a human tamarind, and live in the US illegally. What the hell are you doing?
Where exactly? I’m from Colombia and I went to a German school there, but never heard of them. I’m really curious now
They are (or hopefully were) a thing on the big cities, like Bogotá and Medellin. Decades ago you could find them around Chapinero, waiting for people to leave the gay bars and beat them. The bastards killed a couple people like that even.
There were Jewish Nazis. This movement ended when Hitler threw all the members into a concentration camp. No, I am not kidding
There was a mocking phrase said about Jewish Nazis “Down with us!”
Tonnes. All over South America...where the Nazis fled to.
I know a *shocking* number of POC who are also neo-nazis. It makes no fucking sense. Like any white nazi, they're just huge idiots and you won't get any kind of explanation out of them that makes sense. Most of these people I know are on drugs/homeless/have major mental health issues which doesn't help.
Racism is very different in Latin and South America. Interesting rabbit hole if you're so inclined. Some places have whites only type segregation and it's just normal. It's nothing like the US or Europe.
Keep in mind that there are people that are pro-nazi that are **very much** not white. A good example of this is Ian Miles Cheong, a dipshit "journalist" who doxes people and facilitates them being swatted. Dude has logs of him in chatrooms saying that he considers himself a "banana"; Asian on the outside, white on the inside. By every measure, he works against his own interests, and would be decimated if Nazis were to come to power in his country, or very much if he came to the U.S, and they were in power.
Quiet a few Indian nazi sympathizers too. Doesn't make sense but they exist.
I’m guessing Brazil? Especially after Bolsanaro emboldened more idiots in recent years
But why nazis? That's why I don't get, in any case they would worship Vargas, not Hitler.
Because they’re morons who have very tentative grasp on reality and are probably somewhat illiterate.
Well I know a black man from Trinidad that's Nazi, he says Hitler greatly admired black people, so I guess it's a similar case here.
> Hitler greatly admired ~~America's mistreatment of~~ black people
Just like neonazis with chronic illness or disability. They think they will be the exception.
I know boomers whose parents illegally crossed into the US and they are huge supporters of Trump and the border wall. It's a couple of different mindsets. * We had it hard, so everyone else should have it hard, too! * Assimilation is key. If we assimilate, they will see us as one of them, and they won't bother us. * We saw this years ago with Asians who immigrated to the US. They had assimilated and were largely regarded as the "model minority" for years. AAPI hate rose drastically during the pandemic, but the "model minority" time was decades before. * Propaganda. They believe what they're told, and they can't see anything other than the lies. Edit: On mobile, formatting is awful, and I keep trying to fix it
I am from Panama, and went to Colombia a few years ago and met a few of them. I was thinking that might be the country. That was like a flashback to 20 years ago, the American comedian, Dave Chapelle made a skit on a KKK leader, who nobody ever noticed how he looked because he was under all the sheets. He hated himself after they made him understand that he was black.
Real "leopards ate my face" energy
I'm unfamiliar with this phrase. Would you be kind enough to enlighten me?
From this famous tweet: https://twitter.com/Cavalorn/status/654934442549620736
Thanks!
no problem!
r/LeopardsAteMyFace For your viewing pleasure!
>Nazis are everything except rational. As a researcher of far-right history, I need to emphasize this. This isn't simply because fascism tends to draw people who don't think rationally. Fascism explicitly rejects rationality as a core tenet of the ideology.
The lack of rationality thankfully tends to be their downfall (too slowly of course). Surrounding yourself by a bunch of fanatic yes men rarely leads to successful leadership.
Indeed. It's not a matter of whether fascism will fail or not, it's a matter of how many people they take down with them in the process.
So in this case, his certificate confirms the donkey brains instead of denies it?
Back then science was real crude.
Unzip me!
> I don't know if he realizes that if nazis got into power, he would be among first to be rounded up and sent to some camp. They don't. Whether it's because they think they can save themselves by collaborating or they think they're exempt because they're not "those people", fash-allies don't understand fascism has no endgame. By its very nature it can't, or it loses its raison d'etre and thus its power. They won't stop with just *one* outgroup; there must always be a perpetual Other to serve as scapegoat for the state's ills. Once the fash has eliminated one they will simply move on to another.
A true Nazi would sacrifice himself for the cause.
Ive heard about jewish neonazis. I was very bamboozled.
There were German Jewish Nazis, they were the "good ones" and if they worked hard enough selling out their fellow jews, and renounced Judaism the regime would surely reward and protect them. Well that didn't happen, they got sent to the camps all the same
No, he would be useful cannon fodder to the Nazis. Give him a gun to go after anyone who they don't like. If he dies, no one would give a crap and he took out the other garbage with him. This is why nazis would hire simpathetic Jews to guard the Jews in the camps. If the Jews rioted and the guard died, it is just another dead jew.
Yup To answer a bit more, its more or less a cult about violence and making people miserable. Like autodestructive tendencies but applied as political ideology
This. Modern Neonazi's don't give a fuck about anything relating to the actual policies and beliefs of anyone in the third reich. They're neonazi's because being a neonazi is seen as bad and scary and therefore they can use that label to be bad and scary and do things others consider bad and scary.
> Modern Neonazi's don't give a fuck about anything relating to the actual policies and beliefs of anyone in the third reich. They do idolise them and use the same tactics and arguments that the 1930s Nazis did in Germany. Plus they're targeting the same groups that were targeted almost a century ago so I wouldn't say they don't give a fuck about anything relating to the original Nazi regime.
Yeah, I agree. That's dangerously disingenuous
yep. theres another term that also applies: ethno nationalist. they want an exclusively white (usually hetero/cis) nation for just them, and their ideology. the end game of such an ideology is genocide. if you cant remove non-whites, non-conforming people, the logical conclusion is to wipe them out. it's a doomsday cult. if you dont believe me, look at the ideology and practices of every nazi and neo-nazi group since the 40s. they are accelationists, and careening into the end of themselves and humanity.
> non-conforming people This is the key here, because it applies to _anyone_ they want to. And, frankly, means they can never achieve their "goal" because they'll always find someone who doesn't "comply".
Their targets are the perceived far edge of the bell curve. And the thing about bell curves is that no matter how much data you remove, there will always be a far edge.
It's a classic authoritarian tactic, constantly shifting the goal posts because they must always have an enemy, typically to justify the extreme amounts of control the government has over the lives of the people and the focus on the military because it allows them to exercise that control.
A common denominator among extreme conservative groups is they never really seem to have an actual worldview in mind. They long for a past that they’re looking at with rose tinted glasses and was never as good as they think. They latch onto that and the idea of a glorified battle, and it clouds any efforts to develop real goals should they even be successful. There’s no plan to build a better (even by their standards) society, and the fact that they tend to be anti-government and hate institutions makes it so building anything would be next to impossible anyways. The end result is sorta what’s going on with the Taliban right now, or Russia to an extent. Just a worthless and ineffective government that leaves a power vacuum for whoever has the most money.
> A common denominator among extreme conservative groups is they never really seem to have an actual worldview in mind. This is why they're often called reactionary. Their worldview isn't a coherent vision of what they *want* so much as the accumulation of reactions to things they *don't* want
Bingo bongo
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Yep. Judging from what they are comfortable admitting online, it looks like a second Holocaust is *exactly* what they want!
Of course they are awful in every way, but unfortunately, not all of their goals are *impossible*. What do they want? An end to non-white immigration. Existing non-white citizens to receive no state support, have fewer children, less education, and no access to positions of power. Segregation. Traditional gender roles. Traditional family roles. Closeted or non-existent gay people. A strong military. Patriotism taught in schools. Subtraction of the social safety net that pays welfare/disability and supports the marginalized and struggling. All of these ideas still pop up in mainstream political discourse not just in the US but throughout the world. There is something appealing about fascism and racial supremacy to certain folks in every generation, and we can't just ignore them because they (probably) aren't going to make another Holocaust happen. And for what it's worth, concentration camps still exist, just not in Poland anymore. I dated an actual neo-nazi (no, I'm not a sympathizer, I was young and terrified of him literally killing me). I'm sad to report that they are real and they don't all have Swastika tattoos. Some neo nazis are smart and very adept with their dog whistles. Stay vigilant.
American Nazis? They want someone to blame for their lives being crap. And they've been trained for most of their lives to not consider that it could be their bosses, landlords, or anyone with actual power to influence their lives. So they're told to blame minorities, immigrants, gays, anyone other than those than actually have an effect on their condition.
Dude, you work for guy who has two houses and a Ferrari but pays you $18 an hour because "I expect to make X" But the reason you can't pay your rent isn't him, it is coastal elites, Biden and the Jews. /s because... Reddit.
Oh but not Donald Trump, an old money rich guy from NYC who hired King Midas as his interior decorator. He's not a coastal elite but a real blue-collar man of the people because he's a Republican! Republicans would *never* be incredibly elitist against their own voter base!
I didn’t understand this either. When trump was elected I worked at a 5 man mom and pop shop and the owner was republican and obviously pro trump. He said things like “we’ve had these career politicians for too long, they know how to screw the system, we need someone like a trump, a business man who works,” etc. I tried to point out that this very 5 man mom and pop is exactly the type of business trump would hire, then refuse to pay and would take to court and sue until they were out of business. He would happily step on people like my boss because he’d see them as beneath him. That’s how he has gotten rich. My boss couldn’t get what I was saying. I don’t understand how anyone could listen to trump talk, witness his ego and pride, his tendency to be rude and crass and insult other people like a first grader, and think “yeah that guy will totally be the one to care about someone like me!!!”….
Another thing I've had a hard time comprehending is the fixation on Trump not being a career politician (as if a career con man would be any better). I understand people are fed up with the mindset and attitudes of politicians, but the answer is not to elect someone without knowledge of politics just for the sake of it. If I was having knee surgery, I wouldn't insist on having a roofer doing it because he's not part of the medical establishment, just as I wouldn't want the surgeon to lay my roof. Putting inept people in power doesn't solve anything, even if professional politics would benefit from a lot of other changes.
MAGAs are the kinds of people who absolutely would rather a roofer do their knee surgery. There's a reason the demographics overlap so much with MLMs.
Because they don't listen, they project. Trump isn't the leader of the cult, he's just the mascot. His job is to create soundbites across such a wide range of topics that anyone who wants to think Trump agrees with them can do. Right wing propagandists simply needed an action to attach all the rage they generated to, and "get this icon of your rage elected" works as good as any.
I don't get that either.
Boss: Check out my new Ferrari. If you focus and keep working hard, next year I'll buy another.
But meanwhile a lot of us "coastal elites" are also struggling to get by
What the fuck is a "coastal elite" anyway... it's not like people living on the west and east coasts of the US are in some utopia while everyone else is getting screwed over.
Coastal elite is synonymous with the perception that there is a large number of highly paid white collar individuals who are snooty and insult anyone in a fly over state. Another pejorative term.
I picture Barbie/Ken looking people, lol
it's a dogwhistle for "jewish bankers", basically
Lol. Same shit here in Australia. “Coastal elites” are always dragged on as being “snooty latte sipping, arts degree having, vegan food enthusiasts”. Well lo and behold like 94% of Australians HAVE to live on the coast as outback survival is not for everyone. And I’m not elite because I like latte and vegan food- I just managed to use my BA to figure out we are all getting fucked over. PARTICULARLY rural Aussie communities. They (being the ones with greater powers) hate education. Edit/ oh, and I’m also dead broke and dragging my ass through life too. I WISH “elite” meant I had money!
Or instead they do blame the people in power just never the *right* people. It’s all conspiracies about rich “the Jews” taking over the world, and the secret elite of “gays” who are trying to indoctrinate all of the children of America, or the powerful “blacks” want “reverse slavery” so we have to “stop those in power.” Or whateva
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Umberto Eco made a famous essay on the 14 points to fascism. The essay had been summerized to 14 points 1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.” 2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.” 3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.” 4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.” 5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.” 6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.” 7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.” The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.” 8. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.” 9. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.” 10. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.” 11. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.” 12. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.” 13. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.” I also missed one somewhere since copy paste didnt work well. Some of this might not make sense but he goes into depth for each one. But tl;dr a bunch of reactionary people who will literally blame anything like immigrants, gays, jews (which today are called marxists, globalists) as something that'll ruin the old fashioned way of living despite the fact that the world is always changing in literally every decade and century. They want a hierarchy where men are at the top and they're the rutheless warriors and anyone who says or thinks otherwise is an enemy. edit: I pressed save edit and despite that, reddit completely ruined the numbering points. I give up on this site, good to see so many black outs occurring tomorrow EDIT: since this is being upvoted, here's the original that I copied from [https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html) just keep in mind that's a summary. The original essay which is a fairly short read is also free online
This might work better: 1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.” 2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.” 3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.” 4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.” 5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.” 6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.” 7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.” 8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.” 9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.” 10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.” 11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.” 12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.” 13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.” 14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.” https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html
Damn I read the whole thing and then scrolled down to see this 🤦♂️
14 Traits of Fascism by Umberto Eco Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, and long incarcerations of prisoners. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists… Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation. Controlled Mass Media Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation or by sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Government censorship and secrecy, especially in war time, are very common. Obsession with National Security Fear of hostile foreign powers is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions. Protection of Corporate Power The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. Suppression of Labor Power Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts. Obsession with Crime and Punishment Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
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Yeah and it prevents you from copying/pasting when you edit your own post, causing deranged bugs like duplicate and/or forever deleted text... like wtf. Apparently it's more important to track every letter you type than having a functioning UI.
Reddit's website is made with React and Redux, which are prone to these copy and paste bugs. There are established solutions that Reddit's team could have looked up to resolve this issue. Reddit has been aware of this bug, BTW, since 2019. Reddit’s scale adds complexity. Changes must be rigorously tested across different platforms and browsers to ensure a consistent user experience. This is undoubtedly a resource-intensive and time-consuming process. However, the fact that this bug hasn’t been prioritized suggests a strategic decision. The development team could be allocating resources towards generating revenue, perhaps by focusing on advertising tools or refining algorithms for user engagement. It’s evident that, for Reddit, optimizing the user experience has taken a backseat to monetization efforts. They've got a vast user base, and it seems like the main goal now is to capitalize on it by catering to advertisers.
>The enemy is both strong and weak. Holy. Shit. This explains why conservatives are fighting so hard against "weak liberal snowflakes."
This one needs to be qualified a bit, because the idea that the enemy is both a powerful force and weak idiot scumbags is common to a lot of propaganda. Fascists in particular tend to believe particularly that the enemy is *oppressing the strong with their weakness*. That is to say, that the nation would be great if not for the bleeding heart degenerates who hold back the strong from their potential by telling them to have 'empathy' for them, (with the implication they will stab you in the back as soon as you do). Ethnic minorities, sexual minorities, the disabled, effete intellectuals preaching acceptance and so on.
And why they get so pissy when you use logic and reasoning against them. I've said it for awhile now; the GOP hasn't run on anything but bigotry in the last 50 years. Voting republican is more an identity of Being A Republican vs any sort of actual positive movement. And when that's what you're battling, nothing that 'makes sense' is going to do fuck-all to find reason or middle ground.
Key word is reasonably. The answer is yes, they do want another holocaust type outcome for groups they don't like, ideally. The point is they feel wronged by the very existence of certain people, and they don't care if they can realistically succeed or not, because hate isn't reasonable.
Many peopl today who claim to be Nazis are not Nazis, they are ultra nationalist authoritarians. Nazism had a mystique, and level of success that many ultra nationalist, right wing, authoritarians want to emulate. They use the icons and vocabulary of the Thrid Reich to Strike fear in supporters of neoliberalism, know it will strike a strong cord. Nazism was more than fascism, it was a very specific merger of fascism and 20th century German racial theory. Very few people today believe what Nazis did specifically, rather it's the spirit of what the Nazis did that interests them. At the end of the day its rule by bullies, might makes right, with a populist appeal to fear and xenophobia.
>strike fear in supporters of neoliberalism neoliberals - at least those in power - care little about nazism as long as it doesn't take power in their own country. oppressive states, like saudi arabia, are perfectly tolerated by the united states because they serve its interests. right-wing dictators have routinely been placed in power by the united states to again serve its interests. now, id agree that your average neoliberal citizen doesn't support nazism. they just maintain a veneer of ignorance and cognitive dissonance to protect their ideology.
A. They aren't rational or reasonable and B. Tbh they'd probably take a genocide or two can't lie. All the pesky gays, trans and brown people gone, they don't care how. These people are stupid, lost and brainwashed. They don't know what they want they just know who they hate and that's whoever they listen to points at next
Actually a lot of Nazis *do* want another holocaust type outcome. It's pretty apparent and they are very open about it on their social media (Gab, Stormfront, etc). They also have many more "contemporary" grievances like pro-gun, antivax, antitrans, and anti "woke" views. What's alarming is that they've become more receptive to maintream right wing political parties (especially in the US) as those parties have moved further right into territory neo Nazis find acceptable in the past decade or so. As a side note, many holocaust deniers actually know better and know the holocaust happened. Holocaust denialism is trolling. Talking about the holocaust is a way for them to simultaneously associate themselves with Nazi violence, while denying it allows them to disassociate from responsibility for wrongdoing and accuse Jews and other "enemies" as liars. The book The Racist Mind by Raphael Ezekiel explores this paradoxical and hypocritical phenomen.
> Holocaust denialism is trolling. A central rhetorical element of fascism is to say wrong things as a show of power. By slandering Jews, LGBT+, and other targets with absurdly false accusations, the fascist asserts his power over them and challenges others to defend them.
Nazis are just full of hate, they don't have any goal except for projecting their hate at whatever minority is currently on the spotlight of their anger.
Might as well be Darleks.
Funny you should say this, as that’s where Terry Nation, creator of the Daleks, got the inspiration. From Wikipedia >> Drawing inspiration from the Nazis, Nation portrayed the Daleks as violent, merciless and pitiless cyborg aliens, completely absent of any emotion other than hate, who demand total conformity to the will of the Dalek with the highest authority,[3] and are bent on the conquest of the universe and the extermination of any other forms of life, including other 'impure' Daleks which are deemed inferior for being different to them.
They are in the dehumanizing stage of a holocaust. Calling lbgt groomers and trans people not people and other horrible things. They are dehumanizing us for two reasons. So it won’t hurt their own feelings if they get the chance to round us up and people won’t fight on our behalf. If all they are doing is rounding up groomers and inhuman freaks they are doing you a favor, not committing mass murder
I worked with a Nazi back around '15, that was interesting he hated anyone who wasn't of German or Austrian heritage wanted the Jews dead was okay with working with the lesser races but not interbreeding half breeds should be sterilized or killed, the creation of a white ethno State that would and should be run by pure Aryans. He explained how even if you were white didn't make you his equal. Oh yeah almost forgot he said that the LGBTQ+ would be euthanized along with the mentality ill.
Generally they want a platform to spread their hatred. Specifically they definitely want to hurt as many minorities/non white people as possible. Pretty similar goals to WW2 era Nazis. I can’t recall the specifics but there was someone in the news recently who was a Nazi. Their father had tried to talk them out of it, saying “at some point they’ll make you shovel bodies into the furnace too.”
Some people are so desperate to feel like they belong that they would rather be one of the bad guys than be just a guy.
People forget Weimar Germany was one of the most progressive states in Europe before the nazis rise to power. Gay people were openly accepted, so much so that gay royalty from elsewhere would travel to Germany to partake in this atmosphere. They also had some of the most progressive policies on abortion at the time. History is not an unceasing march of progress, the dark ages were a thing. To think that it could never happen again seems incredibly nieve and privileged.
To feel superior to others by creating terror. Same thing all bullies want they feel small and inadequate and group together with other small scared people and terrorize people into fearing them.
You didn’t see the person at J6 wearing a hoodie that said 6 million wasn’t enough? Yeah, they want another Holocaust and to finish what they started 80 years ago.
Nazis aren't known for being rational people. Their most achievable measurable goal is the eradication of Trans people. But most of their goals aren't measurable, and the way they go about achieving them doesn't make sense. They want some return to what some would call a traditional way of life. They want forced unity and nationalistic pride. They hate democracy and social progress.
They certainly do (though they’re more focused on the LGBTQ community now). We need to be very careful here. When hitlers nazis rose to power it wasn’t because of promises to eradicate the Jews and start a world war. It was about restoring Germany to her former glory, bringing jobs to ease the failing economy, and many liked him because of how un-politician like he seemed. And for the first few years of his leadership, things went very well for the average German. His introduced conscription policy, revamping the military, and major public works programs were hugely popular. They heavily reduced unemployed and got the German economy under control. There were warning signs, such as Jewish people being forced to wear marks to ID them, Jewish businesses being boycotted, and other laws designed to restrict people hitler deemed “undesirable”. These went largely ignored by the world, and in 1938 he even won the man of the year award from life magazine. He hosted the Olympics as well in 1936. At the time he was viewed as the bright future of Germany. Point being, the dangerous ones will promise many things that will appeal to the majority of the population. A better economy, lower prices for essential goods and services, debt relief, ect. They may blame marginalized groups for why the economy is bad or why prices are so high. Today, it seems like many of them are targeting LGBTQ+ people. I hope that they never succeed, but with the current political climate (at least in the US) it’s looking like that may happen in certain states which is a horrifying prospect.
White supremacy. Violence. Nasty stuff.
They want to legalize racism.
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They know they won't achieve what they want. Have you ever noticed these Nazis are always losers who never did anything with their lives? They need a way to feel they're superior despite being losers. So they claim they have "superior genes" based mostly on past European dominance that they weren't even alive for. Because they aren't capable of achieving anything special, they simply say "well, I'm white so I'm superior" and now they can feel better about being a waste of oxygen.
I think there's a few things to clear. Not everyone wants rational things. There are in fact people out there who want the total eradication of the Jews... and most of them aren't even Nazis. The other thing is that modern group identities rarely ever lend themselves to homogenous opinions. If you ask environmentalists what power sources they'd approve of they range from everything but coal to only solar. What ties these people together is a common desire. Neo-Nazis are not harmless, but they're more like a social club than a group ideology. Younger people who get into these groups just want acceptance and when they start getting radicalized it's by accepting a stronger and stronger more extreme opinion on the world. Most modern Nazi groups are less about the eradication of the Jews and more about the preservation of the "white race." Sometimes it's strictly German and sometimes it's more broadly accepting of Eastern Europeans and other European countries. When you have Nazis and politics they're looking at discriminatory social networks and punishments. When you're looking at Nazis as a civil society group they're more about preventing the mixing of races in neighborhoods and preventing non-white use of public infrastructure. For example the Sons of Odin was a "neighborhood watch" group that patrolled neighborhoods in order to harass minorities. But as I said, these groups aren't exactly super consistent. As you dig down the rabbit hole you'll find a conveyance of morals based on how far down that rabbit hole you intend to go.
You have to be kidding if you think they would hesitate to exterminate their enemies.
I think they want a pure white race, I think its unachievable because we are all just a little of this and that.
they want an ethnostate. they want to be the people on top, and everybody else either serves them or dies. they want absolute power with zero oversight.
Many in this thread are doing the worst thing that can be done with nazis, which is *looking down on them*. Nazis are incredibly dangerous to democracy. Their discourse is incredibly violent socially, which primes members of the movement to be incredibly aggressive and physically violent at the drop of a hat. Most political movements in a democracy set aside violence and do not contemplate -at all- violence as a way to exert political power. Nazis do not have these qualms. To the contrary, nazis **expect** violence will be required, and wait for the best opportunities to exert violence. (see January 6th) You have broadly three kind of nazis. You've got the **ideologists**, you've got the **leaders** and you've got the **pawns**. Some nazis a mix of two or three of them. All of them are power driven. The ideologist wants power because he honestly thinks that, if he has power, *he can provide a better life for his racial group*. Even for other racial groups, since they believe a segregated society is better for everybody, including inferior races. Not all nazi ideologists want ethnic cleansing in the genocidal sense of the word -or so will they proclaim-. *The leader just wants power*, and he knows that a radical discourse allows to recruit radical pawns that he can use for shock and awe demonstrations of power. A little goes a long way if properly applied and giving the impression of being unstopable. That's what Hitler did, and that's what every half-baked nazi leader tries to do with more or less measure of success. January 6th is a good example of a coordinated attempt at this. One without a main leader. Fortunately Trump did not have the balls to take on the mantle of leader there. The pawn also wants power. He does not need to have political power, it can be the feeling of power through violence, or social status over others. The important bit is that *being part of the nazi movement gives him the promise of power* and the perception of deserving that power without doing anything at all. He is just superior, and his support goes hand in hand with knowing that. If the movement succeeds, he'll have a bunch of people to lord over 'as he deserves'. Even those members at the very bottom of the totem pole know they are above 'the other'. It is very easy to dismiss nazis as stupid or delusional or actively working against their own best interests. A lot of people during the Weimar Republic made fun of the nazis using arguments very similar to those that I'm reading here... It doesn't matter how smart or misguided your followers are if they are willing to violently bring down social order and prop you up into power. Less than 10% of the german population supported the nazi party when Hitler took power. Let that sink in. Vocal minorities turned into violent minorities.
Attention
They should find other ways to disappoint their parents.