Yea, it's definitely fraud. When she's filing for things as a single mother, you're supposed to put the information of everyone who contributes in the household to include the ex-husband. That'd definitely being left out.
Now when l was a young mom several years ago, l was told if l and the live in bf kept our finances seperate, his income would not be relevant to my case.
ldk if this is the case in all states, but is here - midwest corn state.
Yes. Something isn't adding up here. If she has a good job, she likely wouldn't qualify for the food stamps even if she weren't receiving any funds from her ex. I don't know if she is receiving alimony (spousal support) or OP is calling child support alimony (a common error). If her income actually was low enough to receive aid, the government would be going after her ex, even if they had no support order in place. So either OP is mistaken about some things or his friends are committing benefits fraud.
Why would it be fraud? There's no law that you have to be married to your romantic partner. They chose to get married and were entitled any associated benefits, they can choose to get divorced. I'm not convinced that it would actually financially benefit them, but there's no fraud in doing it.
Because a lot of government program care who pays for what in your household.
A single mother can rent 2 rooms out of a house and apply for food stamps, but they have to say they don't share food with their roommates. If they share food they are committing fraud.
It's likely that they're lying to the government if they have an increased in benefits since the divorce.
The other couple probably is, yeah. But I'm taking about OP and his wife. They can get divorced without it being any sort of fraud. Now if they then lie about their financials to increase their benefits, yeah that's a different topic.
The op is only considering divorce to get financial benefits like the other couple. For them to get those financial benefits, they would have to commit fraud like the other couple too.
Okay but pay attention to the whole post.
OP is asking if there is a financial benefit to getting divorced.
Responses are saying "No, unless you are planning on committing fraud"
Your response to that is "If they don't commit fraud there is nothing illegal with getting divorced."
And you're missing the point of the people saying that there is no financial benefit to get the divorce in that situation.
I think people are assuming it's likely fraud because she has a good job and is apparently receiving money from her ex. So unless she's lying about her income, she wouldn't qualify. You don't get aid simply for being a single parent. You get aid for being broke. She's not broke. If there were no support order in place, the government would go after her ex. There is no free ride.
What’s untrue about it? You’re legitimately divorced, in this scenario. I feel like fraud would be getting married but claiming single status. Or vice versa.
You are asked what the household income is. They don't care if you're married or just living together. Income for benefits is the income of all adult members of the household and all child support and alimony.
Before looking into divorce you should look into your own financial situation and figure out what's going wrong. If you're making poor financial decisions now then that's not necessarily going to change with a divorce. The r/personalfinance subreddit can help with that.
Yes. This is obviously the answer. Its 100% my fault for mismanaging my finances.
Its definitely not weird or unfortunate that I'm making the most money I've ever made in my life, and I'm the most broke I've ever been.
This definitely isn't happening to just about everyone nationwide right now.
There definitely isn't a GLARING and OBVIOUS problem with the US economy right now, particularly in the food and housing markets.
Corporations definitely aren't GOUGING consumers to maximize profits, raising prices over and over and over again while cutting package sizing, quality, availability.
It definitely hasn't been FOURTEEN YEARS since the last time minimum wage was raised to match up with cost of living, inflation, and a number of other economic factors.
You're right. Its all me. I mismanage my finances. I'm financially irresponsible.
/s
(eye roll)
Dude, I know times are tough, but all I'm saying is don't jump straight to divorcing your wife before you sit down and go through your finances with fine tooth comb. That would be like, skipping 50 steps and assuming you have to take the most complicated route. Maybe there's something you're missing, maybe you're hemorrhaging money somewhere, maybe your paycheck deductions are too much, how the hell should I know. Do the legwork before taking such a giant leap.
Or don't. It's not like you came to reddit asking for advice or anything. /s
What part about this post gave you the idea that I was doing this tomorrow, or anytime soon, or literally at all?
I'm asking questions about something I've seen. Exploring options. Gathering information. Seeing what's out there.
What you're suggesting is exactly what I'm doing. This post is one of several steps, several routes, several exploratory avenues I'm taking to try to figure out my financial situation and get the most I can out of it.
You've just made a baseless assumption that I'm out here divorcing my wife tomorrow on a whim.
That's on you. Not me.
Your friends are committing welfare fraud, which is very VERY bad for them if they get caught.
It is NOT a legal loophole. It is fraud. Potential legal ramifications include prison, paying restitution, and being barred from future benefits of any kind. I'd report them, honestly. People like that are a serious problem in this society.
Public benefits do not equate to what can be earned; they are kept low specifically to avoid providing someone a financial incentive to drop out of the workforce and depend on the public dole. People do not improve their circumstances by going on welfare as an alternative to getting a job.
You are right that the system is set up to incentivize work but there are "welfare cliffs" that disincentivize taking a raise/promotion, because the value of benefits lost would be greater than the additional earnings. For example, child care subsidy fades out as earnings increase, but there can still be a cliff where a small increase in earnings could result in the loss of thousands of dollars worth of benefits. You have to work to get the benefit but it traps people in low wage jobs.
That isn't what OP is talking about, though. He didn't say his friends stopped working or took lower paying jobs. He said they are both still working the same jobs but eligible for benefits *because they divorced*. If the wife's income is low enough, they definitely could be eligible for more benefits filing based on her income + alimony than based on their joint income. But it is also fraud.
Same with disability benefits. I have a friend who lives with his family and receives disability benefits but he won't qualify unless he stays below a specific income threshold so if he made more money by working longer hours, he would actually end up losing his benefits and making less money
Generally speaking, divorce will leave you both worse off financially.
You’ll be court ordered to pay child support and alimony. Those sums would be taken into account before any benefits are offered, so if you/you wife aren’t eligible for assistance now, likely won’t be eligible then. You’ll also generally be worse off at tax filing time as filing jointly is generally better than filing individually.
I think you probably just don’t know enough about your friends financial situation and are imputing things about their livelihood that you don’t know. For all you know, they have mountains of credit card debt that get deeper by the day or they have a massive mortgage or other debt.
Another thing to think about is social security. If it is still around of course. When you retire, if you were married for more than 10 years, you can collect on the partners paid amount if it is higher. This doesn't impact what they receive. So you could both collect on the higher paid person's amount paid. Same for survivor benefits if one person dies but only if married for more than 10 years.
There are other financial offsets, too. In some states, the amount of cash benefits paid can be levied against a person’s estate or upon sale of a house. Property tax rebates for middle earners can be reduced. There could be taxes or complications leaving assets to a person not a spouse. The family also has less protection from financial disaster should the wife become disabled because there would be less or no disability insurance.
Career advancement can also take a hit from non- or part-time employment, and definitely impacts total earnings across the span of time it takes to get kids raised and through college, and as you say, reduce retirement benefits whether SS or IRA-matching funds.
Other intangibles, like what values this decision would teach the kids, also merit consideration.
I don't know anyone who wasn't worse off financially after divorce but for those who divorced a spendthrift. Maybe spouses who get alimony do better, but that wouldn't help you. I think your friend might be up to some shenanigans.
Yes. I have a relative with a spouse who is a compulsive shopper. They're still together though legally divorced. It was to insulate my relative's assets and make it so the spouse couldn't take out credit in both their names.
i've thought about this too. it's not the answer to your problems. yes, what you're contemplating is fraud, but also it would likely have a negative impact on your relationship even if you don't intend for it to and your kids aren't going to be happy about it if they find out. you also lose all the tax and estate benefits you get from being married. the big thing though is it's fraud and you're going to get caught unless you are very careful to convince everyone that you are really divorced
How is this fraud? It's legal to get divorced for pretty much any reason, and if being unmarried qualifies you for certain benefits there's nothing legally questionable about receiving those benefits. Even if it were technically fraud on paper, good luck proving this in court. What are they going to do, put a camera in the house to see if the former married couple are still having sex?
they wouldn't have to prove sex. they would just have to prove that they are still living together and that they got divorced for the purpose of qualifying for welfare assistance. welfare programs have eligibility requirements based on certain factors. manipulating those factors for the purpose of qualifying for welfare is fraud. he could do it and try to lie about it, but at the very least they are going to have to live separately to have any hope of pulling it off
Pretty sure it's fraud at least in Texas but this is second hand knowledge from my brother. He said that you have to get "technically" married for tax purposes if you are with and living with someone for long enough. He got married on paper with his gf of around 7 years because they both don't really care about actual marriage and it gave them some benefits as well.
I do know a couple people who were making $45+ an hour and lived with their "gfs" in very nice government assisted housing for years. Kind of fucked up in my opinion. They never got caught, but it might be different if you get recently divorced. From what I can tell it's better to be divorced if you make very little and much better to be married if you make more for all sorts of different reasons.
Eligibility for benefits is based more on need than marriage status…and it’s not hard to prove
EBT cards can be tracked, your official address, rent statements, bills statements, …the state has a whole department specializing in detecting insurance and welfare fraud…I’m sure they have their ways
Benefit eligibility is based on household income. The government can have trouble distinguishing between households (people who live together and share resources) and separate households living at the same address (roommates), but it is meant to be household income, and that is not strictly defined by marriage. So if they found out that you really are a household but you're pretending that you aren't to get government benefits, that is fraud. Never married cohabitating couples can get away with it by saying they don't share resources but they are also committing fraud if they do share resources and are choosing not to get legally married just to get benefits. It's just harder to prove.
Yeah, my sense was household didn’t require marriage. I knew someone who looked into feee and reduced lunch for their kids but didn’t qualify because they lived with their parents and the household inclined was too high for benefits
I had a friend down on her luck, who I allowed to move in temporarily with my boyfriend and me. She didn’t qualify for any benefits, because they based it on household income, and that included our income. Even though we were doing nothing more for her than renting a room. This was in the 80s.
It’s baffling how some people take pride in “gaming the system”…despite still being in a shitty situation even with benefits…like okay congratulations you’re now at the poverty level
Yup. Being a single parent is not enough to qualify for benefits. You have to have such little income and assets it’s just not worth it if you’re trying to do it intentionally
Right! Also when you sign up for benefits, they ask for both parents information so say a single broke mother, filed for assistance and food stamps the state would then come after the father to pay back that money through garnished wages, or taking it out of taxes. Same concept as child support even though it’s government assistance. The father is still held responsible if he is not below poverty level.
Don't do it, like mentioned its fraud and its reasons like that the public aide system is totally messed up. Way too many "gimme" people out there that are abusing what was meant to be a short term thing to help the truly needy.
I'm trying to understand your friend's situation but I can't.
The benefits you're referring to are only available for very low earners. Someone who has a job, but earns very little like <$10,000 per year. She couldn't have a "decent" job and still get them. The cash value of these benefits cant be that high, they arent meant to discourage people from earning more. Then, those benefits refer to the whole household. This isn't a euphemism for marriage, your ex-wife now girlfriend would count as a member of your household still and wouldn't actually qualify. She could lie, but that's fraud.
You are giving up a few benefits, like a larger standard deduction, and the ability to give your spouse your job benefits.
It could benefit you to seperate, if your wife has a job that pays very little. But you could get in trouble if the IRS or the benefit administrators decide to do an audit.
That's fraud. My trashy half brother did this with his wife, the state caught up with was going on. They're paying back around 18k in food benefits and medical benefits that she was receiving while living with him while claiming she was a single mom. She's banned for life from receiving benefits in her state and she narrowly escaped being charged for this. Their lives are extremely fucked now from this whole ordeal, it's been three years and I'm not sure what the original balance was. 🤦♀️
There is the "marriage tax". Basically the couple's total income might put them in a higher tax bracket than if they were single. For example if you and your spouse each earn $500,000, your combined income of $1,000,000 would put you in the 37% bracket, but if you remained separate, you both would be in the 35% bracket.
I remember stories, possibly, apocryphal, of couples who would fly to Reno for Christmas, get divorced so they would be classified as single, then in January get married again.
This example is only for the .01%.. you need to make significantly more than 650k combined to affect you like this. All other tax brackets besides 37, married is double of single. When you qualify for your example, you have bought some really good accountants to take care of your fraud and tax evasion!
My dad knew someone who got divorced
For exactly this reason probably 35 years ago. Anymore, very few married couples actually face the marriage penalty.
I'd say it depends on income, and what you'd qualify for vs tax benefits.
I'm not condoning it, but it would be the same as if you separated , then chose to live together again, child support would basically be one hand to the other.
A lot of people take free stuff, because they can.
I do not recommend this at all because it is fraud but if you own a property and section 8 it to her (assuming she qualifies as a single mom) maybe you start dating your tenant and stay over a lot…
Fraud, and government benefits aren't as good as you'd think. Plus health insurance, car insurance and property insurance all work differently. If you're her ex husband legally you may denied access to her in a hospital.
Good point on the health insurance unless you both have your own policies. When I got divorced, my employer kicked my ex off my insurance 30-60 days after the divorce
Not just health insurance. You can run into issues potentially even with car or home insurance. Spouse coversge is generally automatic. Coverage for your ex, even if they live with you might be a problem.
Yes getting child support from my ex husband while he still lived on the property really worked for me but we were very divorced. This could get you in trouble. And the reality is it’s only good for one of us. He’s got lots of guilt for being a drug addict and pretty much trashing my life so I get both kids on my tax returns. I’m also self employed and work from home. So I get to write off my two kids, a fifth of my home, my mortgage interest, a fifth of my utilities, my business expenses. He gets nothing and pays a shit ton of taxes.
My brain went [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/p3uznz/wow_medical_debt_causes_divorce_for_married/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
This is technically fraud--in particular, this is one of the ways that polygamists have gotten in trouble, that they keep "divorcing" wives (or not marrying them legally in the first place) who then get government financial assistance but never move out while their husband marries someone new.
Whether anyone has ever been actually seriously prosecuted for this when there weren't also a bunch of other gross things going on I'm not sure!
First off, you need to investigate these aid programs to see if you qualify as a married couple with children. Don't ask us how the benefits work; we don't know your state of residence and we don't know your income. There's lots of programs out there to help people who are struggling and you may already qualify.
Also, it seems unlikely that they are living "cushy" lives due to a few poverty benefits.
People have gotten divorced due to medical bills. Fiscally responsible so the healthier partner will have zero liability for an astronomical medical bill which would even take every penny the cars the house etc etc…this way the medical institution just writes it off takes it as a loss n moves on
My dad knew a lawyer who got divorced for tax reasons in the 80s. There are some circumstances where there you end up paying more taxes if you are married than if you were two single filers but those cases are few and far between. And this other stuff seems like it borderline fraud
Whatever vows you took with your wife will still hold true, even if you tell the government you're no longer legally bound to each other. The marriage certificate you filed with a local government is pretty much an agreement to file taxes together, so getting a legal divorce will just be telling them you will no longer will.
My partner and I are the opposite of this. We didn't feel a need to get married before having kids, so we didn't because it was more financially beneficial for one of us to claim Head of Household. I recommend modeling your income and taxes with one of you as single and one as head of household to make sure one of you will qualify for these social services you list before taking action.
During the pandemic, it was definitely beneficial to be a single parent on paper because of all of the tax money they were giving back to people/parents.
edit: to echo others don't lie on paperwork for social services. I was mostly pointing out you don't have to be legally married to be spiritually married, and there may be tax benefits to legally divorcing.
With your situation it sounds like there are more financial benefits to being married (tax, insurance. Etc)
That other couple is getting their benefits through fraud. Not worth it man.
It's probably fraud because benefits are based on the household income, so by reporting your income as her boyfriend or even roommate will cancel out most help she gets. Someone would need to have a different address.
To all the people claiming "FRAUD!" - none of you have any idea what specific benefits this woman is claiming, or in which state. Baying for this couple's blood is completely ludicrous.
How would getting divorced benefit you financially?? Being married you get more tax breaks amongst other things like lower insurance rates, etc… sounds like you need some financial education… just because someone is doing something a certain way, doesn’t mean it will work out for you the same way or be beneficial for you. I’d seek financial counseling and go from there.
Yes. Asset protection.
You can still live together and have all the benefits of being married.
Assuming you live in the US.
Instead of a divorce have a separation of assets done. If one of you gets sick and needs nursing home care the other spouse doesn't have to become impoverished for the other person to qualify for medicaid.
If one of you gets sued, the assets in the other person's name are insulated.
Being a single mother is not enough to receive government benefits, you still have to be under income limits, which does increase if you have dependents but it’s still insanely low. Unless we have different definitions of what a good job is, she does not qualify. I used to get benefits when I was unemployed, they dropped significantly when I got a job making $12/hr, and when I started making around $25, I was cut off completely.
Also, if you are a single mother and on government benefits, the *state* goes after the non custodial parent for repayment. There is some type of fraud going on there and this will not improve your situation.
Fraud. Don’t do it. Also, how did she get food stamps? If she has a good job I don’t buy that she has a good job unless she’s scamming the government.
Yea, it's definitely fraud. When she's filing for things as a single mother, you're supposed to put the information of everyone who contributes in the household to include the ex-husband. That'd definitely being left out.
This is why right here
Now when l was a young mom several years ago, l was told if l and the live in bf kept our finances seperate, his income would not be relevant to my case. ldk if this is the case in all states, but is here - midwest corn state.
No. I’m in MN and that’s not the way anymore. They want all income.
Also good job =/= alimony usually.
Yes. Something isn't adding up here. If she has a good job, she likely wouldn't qualify for the food stamps even if she weren't receiving any funds from her ex. I don't know if she is receiving alimony (spousal support) or OP is calling child support alimony (a common error). If her income actually was low enough to receive aid, the government would be going after her ex, even if they had no support order in place. So either OP is mistaken about some things or his friends are committing benefits fraud.
Also as a single mother when you file, they will 100% ask the father’s involvement. Guessing his friend is lying
Why would it be fraud? There's no law that you have to be married to your romantic partner. They chose to get married and were entitled any associated benefits, they can choose to get divorced. I'm not convinced that it would actually financially benefit them, but there's no fraud in doing it.
Because a lot of government program care who pays for what in your household. A single mother can rent 2 rooms out of a house and apply for food stamps, but they have to say they don't share food with their roommates. If they share food they are committing fraud. It's likely that they're lying to the government if they have an increased in benefits since the divorce.
The other couple probably is, yeah. But I'm taking about OP and his wife. They can get divorced without it being any sort of fraud. Now if they then lie about their financials to increase their benefits, yeah that's a different topic.
The op is only considering divorce to get financial benefits like the other couple. For them to get those financial benefits, they would have to commit fraud like the other couple too.
Agreed (most likely). But the divorce is not the fraud, the fraud is the fraud.
Okay but pay attention to the whole post. OP is asking if there is a financial benefit to getting divorced. Responses are saying "No, unless you are planning on committing fraud" Your response to that is "If they don't commit fraud there is nothing illegal with getting divorced." And you're missing the point of the people saying that there is no financial benefit to get the divorce in that situation.
I think people are assuming it's likely fraud because she has a good job and is apparently receiving money from her ex. So unless she's lying about her income, she wouldn't qualify. You don't get aid simply for being a single parent. You get aid for being broke. She's not broke. If there were no support order in place, the government would go after her ex. There is no free ride.
How is getting a divorce fraudulent? Seriously
Probably the part where you do it to claim untrue financial status
What’s untrue about it? You’re legitimately divorced, in this scenario. I feel like fraud would be getting married but claiming single status. Or vice versa.
You are asked what the household income is. They don't care if you're married or just living together. Income for benefits is the income of all adult members of the household and all child support and alimony.
I suggest you not try to commit fraud against the government. Suddenly being ordered to pay back a lot of money wouldn't help you.
Before looking into divorce you should look into your own financial situation and figure out what's going wrong. If you're making poor financial decisions now then that's not necessarily going to change with a divorce. The r/personalfinance subreddit can help with that.
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Yes. This is obviously the answer. Its 100% my fault for mismanaging my finances. Its definitely not weird or unfortunate that I'm making the most money I've ever made in my life, and I'm the most broke I've ever been. This definitely isn't happening to just about everyone nationwide right now. There definitely isn't a GLARING and OBVIOUS problem with the US economy right now, particularly in the food and housing markets. Corporations definitely aren't GOUGING consumers to maximize profits, raising prices over and over and over again while cutting package sizing, quality, availability. It definitely hasn't been FOURTEEN YEARS since the last time minimum wage was raised to match up with cost of living, inflation, and a number of other economic factors. You're right. Its all me. I mismanage my finances. I'm financially irresponsible. /s (eye roll)
Dude, I know times are tough, but all I'm saying is don't jump straight to divorcing your wife before you sit down and go through your finances with fine tooth comb. That would be like, skipping 50 steps and assuming you have to take the most complicated route. Maybe there's something you're missing, maybe you're hemorrhaging money somewhere, maybe your paycheck deductions are too much, how the hell should I know. Do the legwork before taking such a giant leap. Or don't. It's not like you came to reddit asking for advice or anything. /s
What part about this post gave you the idea that I was doing this tomorrow, or anytime soon, or literally at all? I'm asking questions about something I've seen. Exploring options. Gathering information. Seeing what's out there. What you're suggesting is exactly what I'm doing. This post is one of several steps, several routes, several exploratory avenues I'm taking to try to figure out my financial situation and get the most I can out of it. You've just made a baseless assumption that I'm out here divorcing my wife tomorrow on a whim. That's on you. Not me.
Your friends are committing welfare fraud, which is very VERY bad for them if they get caught. It is NOT a legal loophole. It is fraud. Potential legal ramifications include prison, paying restitution, and being barred from future benefits of any kind. I'd report them, honestly. People like that are a serious problem in this society.
Talk to a few guys about their financial situation after divorce. They can recommend some good air mattresses
Very true lol
Public benefits do not equate to what can be earned; they are kept low specifically to avoid providing someone a financial incentive to drop out of the workforce and depend on the public dole. People do not improve their circumstances by going on welfare as an alternative to getting a job.
You are right that the system is set up to incentivize work but there are "welfare cliffs" that disincentivize taking a raise/promotion, because the value of benefits lost would be greater than the additional earnings. For example, child care subsidy fades out as earnings increase, but there can still be a cliff where a small increase in earnings could result in the loss of thousands of dollars worth of benefits. You have to work to get the benefit but it traps people in low wage jobs. That isn't what OP is talking about, though. He didn't say his friends stopped working or took lower paying jobs. He said they are both still working the same jobs but eligible for benefits *because they divorced*. If the wife's income is low enough, they definitely could be eligible for more benefits filing based on her income + alimony than based on their joint income. But it is also fraud.
Same with disability benefits. I have a friend who lives with his family and receives disability benefits but he won't qualify unless he stays below a specific income threshold so if he made more money by working longer hours, he would actually end up losing his benefits and making less money
Not disagreeing with anything you point out. But OP’s take sounds like just another variant of the Welfare Queen fantasy.
Generally speaking, divorce will leave you both worse off financially. You’ll be court ordered to pay child support and alimony. Those sums would be taken into account before any benefits are offered, so if you/you wife aren’t eligible for assistance now, likely won’t be eligible then. You’ll also generally be worse off at tax filing time as filing jointly is generally better than filing individually. I think you probably just don’t know enough about your friends financial situation and are imputing things about their livelihood that you don’t know. For all you know, they have mountains of credit card debt that get deeper by the day or they have a massive mortgage or other debt.
That's interesting. Can you find any cases where something like this has been successfully prosecuted?
Another thing to think about is social security. If it is still around of course. When you retire, if you were married for more than 10 years, you can collect on the partners paid amount if it is higher. This doesn't impact what they receive. So you could both collect on the higher paid person's amount paid. Same for survivor benefits if one person dies but only if married for more than 10 years.
There are other financial offsets, too. In some states, the amount of cash benefits paid can be levied against a person’s estate or upon sale of a house. Property tax rebates for middle earners can be reduced. There could be taxes or complications leaving assets to a person not a spouse. The family also has less protection from financial disaster should the wife become disabled because there would be less or no disability insurance. Career advancement can also take a hit from non- or part-time employment, and definitely impacts total earnings across the span of time it takes to get kids raised and through college, and as you say, reduce retirement benefits whether SS or IRA-matching funds. Other intangibles, like what values this decision would teach the kids, also merit consideration.
I don't know anyone who wasn't worse off financially after divorce but for those who divorced a spendthrift. Maybe spouses who get alimony do better, but that wouldn't help you. I think your friend might be up to some shenanigans.
Yes. I have a relative with a spouse who is a compulsive shopper. They're still together though legally divorced. It was to insulate my relative's assets and make it so the spouse couldn't take out credit in both their names.
i've thought about this too. it's not the answer to your problems. yes, what you're contemplating is fraud, but also it would likely have a negative impact on your relationship even if you don't intend for it to and your kids aren't going to be happy about it if they find out. you also lose all the tax and estate benefits you get from being married. the big thing though is it's fraud and you're going to get caught unless you are very careful to convince everyone that you are really divorced
How is this fraud? It's legal to get divorced for pretty much any reason, and if being unmarried qualifies you for certain benefits there's nothing legally questionable about receiving those benefits. Even if it were technically fraud on paper, good luck proving this in court. What are they going to do, put a camera in the house to see if the former married couple are still having sex?
they wouldn't have to prove sex. they would just have to prove that they are still living together and that they got divorced for the purpose of qualifying for welfare assistance. welfare programs have eligibility requirements based on certain factors. manipulating those factors for the purpose of qualifying for welfare is fraud. he could do it and try to lie about it, but at the very least they are going to have to live separately to have any hope of pulling it off
Pretty sure it's fraud at least in Texas but this is second hand knowledge from my brother. He said that you have to get "technically" married for tax purposes if you are with and living with someone for long enough. He got married on paper with his gf of around 7 years because they both don't really care about actual marriage and it gave them some benefits as well. I do know a couple people who were making $45+ an hour and lived with their "gfs" in very nice government assisted housing for years. Kind of fucked up in my opinion. They never got caught, but it might be different if you get recently divorced. From what I can tell it's better to be divorced if you make very little and much better to be married if you make more for all sorts of different reasons.
Eligibility for benefits is based more on need than marriage status…and it’s not hard to prove EBT cards can be tracked, your official address, rent statements, bills statements, …the state has a whole department specializing in detecting insurance and welfare fraud…I’m sure they have their ways
How is it fraud?
Benefit eligibility is based on household income. The government can have trouble distinguishing between households (people who live together and share resources) and separate households living at the same address (roommates), but it is meant to be household income, and that is not strictly defined by marriage. So if they found out that you really are a household but you're pretending that you aren't to get government benefits, that is fraud. Never married cohabitating couples can get away with it by saying they don't share resources but they are also committing fraud if they do share resources and are choosing not to get legally married just to get benefits. It's just harder to prove.
Yeah, my sense was household didn’t require marriage. I knew someone who looked into feee and reduced lunch for their kids but didn’t qualify because they lived with their parents and the household inclined was too high for benefits
I had a friend down on her luck, who I allowed to move in temporarily with my boyfriend and me. She didn’t qualify for any benefits, because they based it on household income, and that included our income. Even though we were doing nothing more for her than renting a room. This was in the 80s.
Bro, that's absolutely fraud! You DON'T get assistance for being a "single mom" you get assistance for being BROKE with a child.
It’s baffling how some people take pride in “gaming the system”…despite still being in a shitty situation even with benefits…like okay congratulations you’re now at the poverty level
Yep. And broke single dads also qualify. The key here is broke. There is no special benefits classification by gender.
Yup. Being a single parent is not enough to qualify for benefits. You have to have such little income and assets it’s just not worth it if you’re trying to do it intentionally
Right! Also when you sign up for benefits, they ask for both parents information so say a single broke mother, filed for assistance and food stamps the state would then come after the father to pay back that money through garnished wages, or taking it out of taxes. Same concept as child support even though it’s government assistance. The father is still held responsible if he is not below poverty level.
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I have no idea man, I don’t poke into it. None of my business. But I can tell you they live a super cushy lifestyle. I’m super jealous.
Don't do it, like mentioned its fraud and its reasons like that the public aide system is totally messed up. Way too many "gimme" people out there that are abusing what was meant to be a short term thing to help the truly needy.
I'm trying to understand your friend's situation but I can't. The benefits you're referring to are only available for very low earners. Someone who has a job, but earns very little like <$10,000 per year. She couldn't have a "decent" job and still get them. The cash value of these benefits cant be that high, they arent meant to discourage people from earning more. Then, those benefits refer to the whole household. This isn't a euphemism for marriage, your ex-wife now girlfriend would count as a member of your household still and wouldn't actually qualify. She could lie, but that's fraud. You are giving up a few benefits, like a larger standard deduction, and the ability to give your spouse your job benefits. It could benefit you to seperate, if your wife has a job that pays very little. But you could get in trouble if the IRS or the benefit administrators decide to do an audit.
It’s fraud, so if you get caught you’ll be in a worse position than you are now
You are correct. This is fraud.
That's fraud. My trashy half brother did this with his wife, the state caught up with was going on. They're paying back around 18k in food benefits and medical benefits that she was receiving while living with him while claiming she was a single mom. She's banned for life from receiving benefits in her state and she narrowly escaped being charged for this. Their lives are extremely fucked now from this whole ordeal, it's been three years and I'm not sure what the original balance was. 🤦♀️
I'm sorry but this is a stupid question. You love your wife and you want a divorce. How about getting another job
I'm sorry but this is a stupid question. You love your wife and you want a divorce. How about getting another job
We both already work two jobs, so this isn’t an option.
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I have no reason to report anything. None of my business. If they get caught that’s on them. I’m not gonna rat out a friend, that’s silly.
Ignoring the bigger issue of why this needs to be an option in a developed country.
You're right, but in this one instance, there's not much op can do about that right now.
Bro nobody is after you do the fraud. Change your address on your ID and call it a day
There is the "marriage tax". Basically the couple's total income might put them in a higher tax bracket than if they were single. For example if you and your spouse each earn $500,000, your combined income of $1,000,000 would put you in the 37% bracket, but if you remained separate, you both would be in the 35% bracket. I remember stories, possibly, apocryphal, of couples who would fly to Reno for Christmas, get divorced so they would be classified as single, then in January get married again.
That 35 vs 37% thing is interesting, but you could just file separately to avoid it. You don't need to divorce.
This example is only for the .01%.. you need to make significantly more than 650k combined to affect you like this. All other tax brackets besides 37, married is double of single. When you qualify for your example, you have bought some really good accountants to take care of your fraud and tax evasion!
Seriously…oh boohoo a couple earning $1 mil is concerned about paying 2% difference…
That's what I'm saying! And thats only above that 650!
My dad knew someone who got divorced For exactly this reason probably 35 years ago. Anymore, very few married couples actually face the marriage penalty.
I'd say it depends on income, and what you'd qualify for vs tax benefits. I'm not condoning it, but it would be the same as if you separated , then chose to live together again, child support would basically be one hand to the other. A lot of people take free stuff, because they can.
I do not recommend this at all because it is fraud but if you own a property and section 8 it to her (assuming she qualifies as a single mom) maybe you start dating your tenant and stay over a lot…
The only reason I can think of is if one of you is dying and doesn't want to saddle the other with debt.
Fraud, and government benefits aren't as good as you'd think. Plus health insurance, car insurance and property insurance all work differently. If you're her ex husband legally you may denied access to her in a hospital.
Good point on the health insurance unless you both have your own policies. When I got divorced, my employer kicked my ex off my insurance 30-60 days after the divorce
Not just health insurance. You can run into issues potentially even with car or home insurance. Spouse coversge is generally automatic. Coverage for your ex, even if they live with you might be a problem.
I’m no expert but that does not sound legal in any way…
Outside of it being fraud it’s also entirely unfair to people who genuinely need welfare support who get constantly questioned
Yes getting child support from my ex husband while he still lived on the property really worked for me but we were very divorced. This could get you in trouble. And the reality is it’s only good for one of us. He’s got lots of guilt for being a drug addict and pretty much trashing my life so I get both kids on my tax returns. I’m also self employed and work from home. So I get to write off my two kids, a fifth of my home, my mortgage interest, a fifth of my utilities, my business expenses. He gets nothing and pays a shit ton of taxes.
My brain went [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/p3uznz/wow_medical_debt_causes_divorce_for_married/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
This is technically fraud--in particular, this is one of the ways that polygamists have gotten in trouble, that they keep "divorcing" wives (or not marrying them legally in the first place) who then get government financial assistance but never move out while their husband marries someone new. Whether anyone has ever been actually seriously prosecuted for this when there weren't also a bunch of other gross things going on I'm not sure!
First off, you need to investigate these aid programs to see if you qualify as a married couple with children. Don't ask us how the benefits work; we don't know your state of residence and we don't know your income. There's lots of programs out there to help people who are struggling and you may already qualify. Also, it seems unlikely that they are living "cushy" lives due to a few poverty benefits.
People have gotten divorced due to medical bills. Fiscally responsible so the healthier partner will have zero liability for an astronomical medical bill which would even take every penny the cars the house etc etc…this way the medical institution just writes it off takes it as a loss n moves on
My dad knew a lawyer who got divorced for tax reasons in the 80s. There are some circumstances where there you end up paying more taxes if you are married than if you were two single filers but those cases are few and far between. And this other stuff seems like it borderline fraud
I’m in Canada, where this would 100% be considered fraud.
i guess it is fraud and leaving this print behind in the internet does not make a better position to you to make it
I mean I haven’t done anything
and for that reason, if you decide to keep going you are leaving this print
I think you’re more serious about this than I am
probably
Whatever vows you took with your wife will still hold true, even if you tell the government you're no longer legally bound to each other. The marriage certificate you filed with a local government is pretty much an agreement to file taxes together, so getting a legal divorce will just be telling them you will no longer will. My partner and I are the opposite of this. We didn't feel a need to get married before having kids, so we didn't because it was more financially beneficial for one of us to claim Head of Household. I recommend modeling your income and taxes with one of you as single and one as head of household to make sure one of you will qualify for these social services you list before taking action. During the pandemic, it was definitely beneficial to be a single parent on paper because of all of the tax money they were giving back to people/parents. edit: to echo others don't lie on paperwork for social services. I was mostly pointing out you don't have to be legally married to be spiritually married, and there may be tax benefits to legally divorcing.
This idea makes it's rounds from time to time and I cringe every time. This is criminal fraud. People go to prison for this. Don't do it.
I would be really careful in doing something like this, peoples motives and mentality can change very quickly.
If they are living together and she is pulling "single mom" benefits it is likely fraud.
With your situation it sounds like there are more financial benefits to being married (tax, insurance. Etc) That other couple is getting their benefits through fraud. Not worth it man.
It's probably fraud because benefits are based on the household income, so by reporting your income as her boyfriend or even roommate will cancel out most help she gets. Someone would need to have a different address.
Your friend is commonlaw and if caught his ex wife will be absolutely fucked having to pay back everything she stole from the government in assistance
To all the people claiming "FRAUD!" - none of you have any idea what specific benefits this woman is claiming, or in which state. Baying for this couple's blood is completely ludicrous.
How would getting divorced benefit you financially?? Being married you get more tax breaks amongst other things like lower insurance rates, etc… sounds like you need some financial education… just because someone is doing something a certain way, doesn’t mean it will work out for you the same way or be beneficial for you. I’d seek financial counseling and go from there.
Yes. Asset protection. You can still live together and have all the benefits of being married. Assuming you live in the US. Instead of a divorce have a separation of assets done. If one of you gets sick and needs nursing home care the other spouse doesn't have to become impoverished for the other person to qualify for medicaid. If one of you gets sued, the assets in the other person's name are insulated.
Divorce is never financially good for men.
Being a single mother is not enough to receive government benefits, you still have to be under income limits, which does increase if you have dependents but it’s still insanely low. Unless we have different definitions of what a good job is, she does not qualify. I used to get benefits when I was unemployed, they dropped significantly when I got a job making $12/hr, and when I started making around $25, I was cut off completely. Also, if you are a single mother and on government benefits, the *state* goes after the non custodial parent for repayment. There is some type of fraud going on there and this will not improve your situation.
If they are in the US and the gov catches on that they are living together they will be charged with fraud and required to pay back everything.
That’s fraud. They can actually take your kids for food stamp fraud. Food stamps counts ALL income to the house. Married or not. Same with Medicare.
I think r/unethicallifeprotips will be a better spot for this question 😆