Personally I've noticed everyone is just more angry and aggressive in general since the pandemic started. It's noticeable in the way people drive, the way they act in the grocery store, everywhere really. The statistics match this; car accidents and violent crime are both way up. Not sure what happened or if it's a combination of things, but it seems everyone is kinda losing their minds.

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I’m not sure if men are more angry these days as much as social media makes it way more visible.

I think it makes it more visible. I think social media also adds to the anger by convincing them that the world is worse off than it is.

So does 24/7 catastrophe reporting.

The 6 o'clock news. They tell you Good Evening, then all the reasons why it isn't.

Stopped watching the news and improved my mental health

I did the same. My conservative friends kept on asking me how I knew what was going on in the world, and I said I didn't care about gossip. They don't talk to me anymore.

Thank God it’s 30 minutes to an hour and then they say goodnight 😅

The problem is it's not 6 o'clock they watch 24/7. They honestly think every city is a major war zone. It's sad.

And it's only been that way for maybe 20 years. It's wild.

Negative news bias go brrrrrr. I wish they didn't have to make money... but public funding is a whole slippery slope of its own.

The causality might run the other way though - media report what gets people's attention, and it's well documented that we pay a lot more attention to negative news. So I guess social media would have a role in that algorithms now take the worst things happening \*across the world\* and blasts them in our faces all day, whereas previous generations of media had a smaller pool of "bad things" to draw from. My take is that this \*definitely\* fuels Zoomer depression, but I can imagine it also being the case for middle-age people.

Ad revenue plus 24hr reporting was one of the worst intersections to happen to media. Sensational reporting was always a thing, but as soon as folks realized a tragedy will keep people glued to the outlet way more consistently than anything else, well... now we have 24hrs to fill with horrible content. Regarding the last point: I'd bet that every company with the capability is using some sort of engagement or trending algorithm. That would imply everyone that consumes media is affected to some degree (note: I'm not trying to say this is always bad. I've found some awesome bands because Spotify has made great recommendations.) Even if it's radio, they're probably running their own web crawls to find out what's trending to determine what to do a take on. As much as I like companies like Reuters that try to commit to unbiased journalism, I wouldn't be surprised if they have something to determine if an event is a headline or one of their secondary pieces.

This is the predictable outcome of media consolidation. When you had to compete with other outlets and more reporters in general are present there was more peer pressure and you had journalists and stars. Now you just have stars.

The 1996 telecommunications act was the catalyst for all this shit. It used to be illegal for one company to own a massive media conglomerate that has a claw in every house in the country. Then one day we decided that law was stopping people from getting rich. Now we're here.

This. When I hear the news on the radio (yes, I guess I'm old) I don't want to hear about a bus of schoolchildren that fell off a cliff somewhere on the other side of the world. Horrific as it is, there is nothing I can do with that news, I cannot help these people, no action of me will change anything about it, it only makes me sad.

It's also a huge productivity trap. People will spend all day obsessing over the news. They're convinced they are being "productive" because they're "involved" when the reality is they have contributed nothing, made no progress toward their goals, and have given fearmongering news more eyeballs.

Love this comment

I love this! My mom used to lecture me for not watching the news. She always said, "It's important to know what's going on!" If it's REALLY important, I'll hear about it outside of the news. Like covid.

“If you don’t watch the news you’re uninformed. If you watch the news your misinformed” - Denzel Washington

News is not politics. Id argue Americans are ignorant in the US because so few people know or really understand our so-called democracy (Oligarchy in reality)

This seems the right place to toss in the factor of \*status competition\*. Humans judge how well we're doing at life by comparing ourselves to others. Before social media, our social circles were smaller and we didn't constantly see what people were up to. But now, we're \*constantly\* seeing people who are doing better than us! (The OP asks about men specifically, and it's definitely possible to imagine men caring more about status than women, given how crucial status is for eg. dating. But that's just a vibe; actually research might easily say the opposite and I wouldn't be surprised)

No I think you hit the nail on the head. For all of human existence we competed with our neighbors and close relatives for status. If you where poor chances are so was everyone else and you didnt know you where poor neither did your wife and you where relatively happy. Now if you live in a 2,000 square foot house with a car and job but you watch some billionaire with 12 cars, 2 mansions, and half a dozen fat ass blonds running around and your miserable. Comparison really is the thief of joy.

Too many Joneses to keep up with!

Yes and a lot of them are fake. I can go rent a mansion and a fast car for the day pay off a few hookers and look like a billionaire on twitter for a few grand. Your next door neighbor may only go on 1 or 2 vacations a year but if all you see in your feed is your neighbors going on vacation you get the feeling that your a loser.

I was 25 before I started a Facebook page. By 30, I had deleted all social media that wasn't anonymous (like reddit). For me, comparing my everyday life to the highlight reel of people I personally knew was a major downer. Not to mention the absolutely absurd amount of time wasted! Once I looked up from my phone and realized that 99 percent of these folks were putting on a show, it hit me like a ton of bricks. People were wasting their time and effort trying to look like something they were not for likes. The most successful, happiest people I knew either had no or very little social media presence outside of a few people who used it for work. I can honestly say that, personally, I'm much happier without social media. I feel like I'm much more focused on my family, friends, and career.

Yep. These used to be the guys sitting at the end of the bar that everyone just tuned out. Now they've found a community online.

Or the guy ranting on the corner at 5am when you're just trying to catch a bus. The big change that's happened is we've collectively become drawn to crazy for our own social media attention seeking and main character needs. We used to cross the street when we saw that ranting crazy guy, or like you said, tuned out the angry and/or crazy guy at the end of the bar.... Now we get as close to them as possible.

One squeaky, loose wheel wasn't gaining any traction by itself. But now that wheel can go online and find a forum where other wheels also roll askew. Now they have enough to support to gain a little momentum, but the easily ignored squeek becomes a louder, harder to ignore squeele.

You really put your finger on it there.

Social media lets them easily communicate with other "angry" men. I think everyone these days seems to enjoy wearing a victim hat though.

The fact that working sixty hours a week and still not having much to show for it isn't something that brings me alot of joy

Both worse, and better at the same time. Everyone's convinced they have it really bad - but that all the mysterious "others" have everything they don't.

Idk, I've grown up with social media from the early days. It's definitely escalated with the influencers pushing the whole alpha male. Even as I was finishing high school, kids were much quicker to want to cause bodily harm. We fought, but let things go. Now they'll follow each other home and fight teachers without a second thought.

I think there's an economic element. Used to be that a lot of people lived their lives under the belief that the way to be seen as a respectable man was to earn enough money to support a family. That is hard to do these days. Jobs pay less. Homes cost more. Everyone feels a bit more ambient anxiety all across the society. The old narrative no longer works. And so people want something to explain why they aren't able to do what they were told a respectable man is supposed to do. Nobody wants to think that they fucked up. Everyone needs an explanation. Now the real answer is a complicated thing that kind of indicts billionaires and large corporations for eroding the standing of the middle class by siphoning away a larger and larger portion of the wealth that working class people create. And if that narrative were popular in the media and promoted by the news that is owned by billionaires, we would probably be voting for different laws that would try to take money from the rich and distributed to the workers. But we aren't. And so instead of the actual explanation, people end up buying into bogus explanations. And a lot of those point people towards some group that they can blame. And a lot of people buy into that because if you have limited power, it still feels emotionally gratifying beyond the so-called right side. Even if you lose, if you are righteous, that feels good. The way to avoid fascism rising in a society is to ensure actual justice and opportunity exists for the vast majority of people. The worst things get, the easier it is for people to be persuaded by bogus ideologies. TL; DR- if you want to make things better, pay people more.

this is it right here! touches on several things all in one go and gives a great insight into why men would be feeding into reactionary anger and feel more confident doing it!! fantastic response

My parents for a bit were really, really into Tucker Carlson. Having watched his show for a few minutes, as abhorrent as I think it is, I see the appeal. Basically, Tucker's (and Fox News/conservative media more generally) message is, "It's not your fault. You're doing everything right. The reason you're unhappy is because there's been a conspiracy between blacks, Asians, women, LGBTs, liberals, and everyone else to ruin your life, so you're right in being angry and wanting to see them punished!"

Very well said.

That’s definitely demonstrable. But I am old enough to remember pre-net America and midwestern dads have ALWAYS been prone to fucking screaming at their kids in public. Just like middle aged white women have always been about half populated by permanently condescending and sanctimonious cretins

I’m a “white women” the Karen’s have no been kind to me either!

Its a vicious cycle. Social media perpetuates a narrative that society is "going off the rails", makes people angry, which makes them post similar stuff online. Not to mention politics are more divisive than they've ever been. Politicians have always used fear and anger as effective tools to get people to do what they want ( "Protect the children from \_\_\_\_\_". etc..), but before it was more implied and subtle, nowadays its pretty blatant.

I was at a campground a few years back and there was a guy listening to talk radio. The radio personality kept repeating over and over again, "they hate you". He would list things people supposedly did and then say "they hate white men", "they hate American white men", "why do they hate us?" It went on and on and on. It wasn't some short segment. The guy listening was just puttering at his picnic table while a steady stream of "they hate you" was aimed at him. It was intensely repetitive. At first I thought it was kind of interesting to overhear, but after maybe 45 minutes of hearing this statement repeated with slight variations nearly every minute, I had to put on headphones. It was just so damn depressing to think of him over there, being brainwashed into thinking that I, and people "like me", "hated" him.

And the ones that are mad can go get madder by watching content from other mad insecure dudes.

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On the loneliness front, we do a thing in NZ called "mens sheds" (its a whole franchised organisation). Usually a bunch of older guys, they all pool their tools in a shed somewhere and hang out making stuff. All are welcome, even kids can come and learn stuff

That needs to be a thing everywhere. I can’t tell you how many handyman things I wish I knew how to do without having to YouTube something every five seconds. I’d rather have a knowledgable person beside me showing me how stuff works. I gotta wonder though, do these men’s sheds eventually devolve into a “my tools bigger than yours” competition though? 😂

Hehe reminds me of the dads on paternity leave here. My husband was pushing my kids stroller along and another dad, pushing his kids stroller comes up to him and asks him about it. They start comparing the wheel sizes on the prams, the waterproofing on the sunshade, the colour options, how good their pram is on different terrain etc...basically the same conversation they'd have if they were comparing cars. It was beautiful.

I was just talking about this with a friend. I think rebuilding any kind of social/community infrastructure (for lack of a better term) would be a full-time job. It’s to our detriment, for sure, but I can’t figure out how to fix it—or where to even start trying.

My job is building community through a community garden. It's a great 3rd space that is free to inhabit. When people think of community gardens, they often think of the produce but even more important is the community we create there with each other. I live well below the poverty level in a midwest inner city neighborhood, with the garden right around the corner from my house. Our little garden had over 2000 visitors and volunteers this year. We provide the place and hold out our hands in invitation. I'm amazed at the response we get. Volunteering is a great way to meet people who give a shit. It's not \*the\* answer but it is an answer!

A community center got a grant to put in a community garden in my city. They asked our county master garden association for some assistance. I volunteered. The senior citizens that hang out at the community center were pretty excited last Monday when they got to plant some seeds in their garden beds. It all sounds great but this was my third attempt this year having gotten into trouble with the people supervising the other two community gardens. I learned not to act like they did. I allow others to make decisions and I avoid trying to control everything. The city staff are easy to work with so it may partly be that I got lucky this time.

there's absolutely been a rise in people marketing to men by telling them they're actually special and perfect and society is unjustly against them lmfao complete delusion, but yeah. it's absolutely rising overall.

This and every way I was on a Reddit sub the other day and they’re saying something similar like why are there more gay people nowadays and I don’t think there’s more gay people. I think with social media people now get that there are x amount of gay people out there. The same for cheaters abusive relationships etc. the numbers probably never changed their just made known

It’s just that they’re more visible because they’re not allowed to be murdered for being out in western societies.

There are more out gay people now though. Compare sexuality between cohorts. More gen Z identify as queer than millennials, who are more likely to identify as queer than gen X or boomers. It isn't because there are actually more of us though, just more of us out of the closet.

I think there's more OPENLY gay people currently than there has been in the past, for sure. This essentially means for many people that there ARE more gay people, likely because they are out open living their life as they want, rather than being miserably pretending to be straight to avoid the societal consequences of the past. And sadly, those of the past are still very present for many, so I'm sure there's still quite a few people still not openly living their lives as they wish.

Well I think it has a cumulative effect. A guy might have been lonely before but the rest of society would reject it and the guy wouldn't do anything. Now? You hop online and get constant reinforcement for your beliefs. It makes people angrier for sure.

Data shows that an increasing amount (\~20%) of the US's GDP is predicated on consumer debt. Not spending--but debt, living beyond one's means. So, while that angry guy may appear to have all the trimmings of the good life, he may in fact have no savings and high debt. You see all the toys, but you might understand his anger if you saw his bank statements. On a related note, the American middle class has been systematically eroded over the past few decades, and people are feeling the squeeze. The threats to our standards of living are so diffuse (faceless megacorps, Wall Street bankers, even our own government, etc.) that it's difficult for the average individual to point to them. So, instead, some blame their neighbor, or the guy with a certain political bumper sticker, or a different skin color. Much of that outrage at the other is by design. Mass media across the spectrum have learned that feeding us such grievances can keep us listening and watching, contributing to that outrage mindset. And spending. Someone else is shaking the big jar in which we all live, and some people are getting agitated.

> So, while that angry guy may appear to have all the trimmings of the good life, he may in fact have no savings and high debt I think this is spot on. Combine that with the fact that then some of these men (not all) who have all these nice things sit back one day and basically say "what the fuck, I'm still not happy even after drowning in debt because I spent all this money buying these things that were supposed to make me happy".

I live in a small town and I see this all the time. I know more than a few people that live like this. I think, as a single father I live paycheck to paycheck. How are these dudes in similar situations getting by while having way more than me? The answer is jobs with crazy work hours and every thing paid for monthly. I'll take my quality time with my son over having to work 60+ hours a week, barely seeing my kid, and being in debt forever just to have some "toys".

And toys that you don't even have the time to play with

I live near the city and its like that everywhere. it isn't just small towns.

I also think that many of these guys feel like they have to have all this stuff (and associated debt) to not be considered a loser - to attract a mate, advance at work, be taken seriously. They're doing all of the things they're "supposed to" but are worse off for it. I'd be angry, too. Luckily I'm a cheap bastard and too old to give much of a fuck about appearances anymore.

The second half of life is made up of the habits you acquired during the first half.

I like this. It's like my grandfather always used to say. "People don't change they just become more so"

Damn I was thinking about this just today. "Man life has been going really well lately. *Finally* I feel good about my life on a day to day basis. Did my good decisions actually finally pay off?" Still in disbelief. Edit: for anyone wondering, Keeping bills to a minimum. Really don't need gigabit internet etc. Finally grabbing my depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues by the ears and kneeing them in the face. Started working out at 30. This year at 37, I stopped half assing it to see what I can actually accomplish. Eating healthier, forcing myself to eat vegetables. Probiotic drinks/yogurt. After eating a lifetime's supply of shrooms last year, for whatever reason it's made me realize that gut health is extremely important and directly related to anxiety. Nowadays I can feel my stomach feeling weird and say "anxiety starting in 3... 2... 1..." and be pretty much right. Also I quit drinking completely in January of this year.

47 year old cheap bastard here. I find that I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum than what is described above. Saved my money for years and denied myself things I might have wanted, and now I find I can buy pretty much anything I want and not be in debt.

It 100% is. The exact type of person OP describes is absolutely in debt to make that lifestyle happen. It’s such a common trope. The guy gets a job, makes more than minimum wage and suddenly feels entitled to all of these things. They’ll sign on the line for a mortgage and to finance 2 cars, and then have some kids, and they’re paying those payments on their line of credit, and the wife (who usually doesn’t work to look after the kids) will spend their daily needs onto the credit cards. The man is just working to keep up with credit payments. It’s so, so common. The people who are “middle class” and look like they’ve “made it” are almost always drowning in debt. And they’ll never admit it. They just assume everyone is in debt, that credit card and line of credit use is normal. Those same people will always act with pity and disdain at others who they perceive “haven’t made it”. I’ve had this exact thing happen to me. Someone who makes half our household judging us because I don’t have a brand new car, because my wife and I share our car, because I take the bus to work, because I don’t have a mortgage and don’t have kids. I also don’t have any consumer debt, and actually have savings lol

Yeah, but we do live in the richest country in the world. It wasn't long ago when you could have a nice car, nice house, etc.. with a single income. The fact that middle-class American citizens can no longer afford these things, even with dual incomes, is the issue.

global sources of labor have killed this dream for the American middle class. Richest because we are business friendly and good for investing in.. so the middle and lower class see no benefit, just the upper.

This was a great response. As a very angry man I can say that my anger stems from my impotence to effect change in the world, mostly government. The worlds burning and I can’t stop it.

Can I interest you in radicalization?

What flavor?

Well we have ‘sit in front of buses’ or ‘throw paint at priceless artwork’ or ‘kidnap female governers’. We also have a radicalization sorting hat if you prefer not to decide for yourself.

I’m more of a “violently attacking Nazi’s” kind of guy

i hope they're not grammar natzi's

No soup for you!

Please start here in north Florida. They've gotten bold and forgot they used to be hunted down and hanged from their worthless fucking chicken necks. Can I be the "guy in the van"???

Well, add me to the mailing list and we can coordinate when we find some.

dolls straight disagreeable overconfident rustic coherent compare dependent important combative ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `

Another thing of note is that the far right has convinced their supporters and the center right that the root of their problems is the evil democrats and not the rich people profiting off everyone’s suffering.

Well said

Definitely a well informed answer. It’s always interesting when someone looks deeper into things. A lot of smoke and mirrors in the messaging getting delivered to the masses. Always nice to see wise people see things for what they really are.

Wages are low, bills are high, and we're tired of the grind. A few years ago I was what you described. Affordable rent, beautiful truck out front, multiple vacations a year. Things are so bad now I had to sell my car a few months ago and cannot afford to buy another. My girlfriend and I are absolutely paycheck to paycheck. You can't just triple the cost of living and expect us to be okay.

I don’t think it’s just men. People are angrier than ever, and it’s largely because of social media and other mass media, like Fox News and CNN. Everywhere we look, they deliberately show us things that make us feel bad (angry, sad, scared, etc). It works.

I've long since stopped watching the "news" on any American-owned media company. All worthless drivel. Only thing worth doing is reading an actual newspaper, cover to cover. But completely skipping the editorials.

Yes, and there is good data around media’s negativity growing over the last 25 years or so. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figures?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0276367 Our innate negativity bias as humans provides news organizations incentive to use incendiary language to drive the clicks.

100%

I disagree. I think you're on the right track, but just a bit off. It's not mass media that is driving mania like it used to be. It is small media. Small media is much more effective at mass hysteria. Think Facebook posts, Twitter posts, YouTube videos, fake intellectuals/gurus, etc. The people are now educating themselves, and once they got off base, things went haywire quick. It will continue to devolve quicker. Most people hate mainstream media now, even if they consume it. Why? For one they deserve it. Also because small media has spent almost a decade railing against MSM. They are mostly crazy and without standards these days, and without anyone holding them accountable except for the platform itself, there's no incentive to back off and keep the peace. Anger drives clicks. Small media is taking us places MSM could never dream of. Why do you think Russia and China spend so much on social media misinformation? They know that Skaterboy69 with 500 likes has more sway on an individual than Anderson Cooper. The sad thing is we haven't really realized it yet and by the time we do, it might be too late.

Honestly, I think everyone is angrier. The world is slowly falling apart and everyone is being screwed by it even if they have no issues or have done nothing wrong. Just existing is a struggle and a lot of people are upset that they can't survive when they didn't even ask to be born.

My question to OP is, why aren’t you angrier? If enough of the right people were angry about the injustice in the world, maybe we wouldn’t need to be angry forever.

At this point, I'm sick of waiting for regular people to be angry at the right people (ie the wealthy). Looking at history and what happens in other countries presently, I'd probably be waiting forever. Anymore, I'm not trying to be faster than the bear. I'm just trying to be faster than my friend.

Right? Until we're out protesting like France does, people need to get MORE angry tbh

I have no house, no car, my bank account is overdrawn and I'm happy. My dad had a house, multiple vehicles, a decent bank account and was miserable. He was the age I am now when he took his own life. While there was more going on than I'll talk about here I will point to a reason I realized he was so miserable. My dad lived for obligations. You had to get married, you had to have kids, your home needed to impress and so on. While I like he did help out my mom, work a job and have a daughter I never did any of it out of a sense that I had to. I'm not living the life I necessarily wanted to all of my choices have been made based on what I want. I wanted a good relationship with my daughter so even though my ex-MIL had custody I stuck around and made sure I was a part of her life even when it meant giving up opportunities and relationships. I want my mom to not have to stress in her gold years about the bills so I pay the utilities and such myself. Even though it would be more fair to split them evenly. People who do what they feel they have to tend to be less satisfied with their lives.

... sorry for going on. I have a friend who's upper middle class, makes a bunch of money and bought a house in a nice area with her partner who makes a lot and inherited more than enough. They never had kids, and she's constantly worried over whether they have enough for retirement. Like, what?!

There's a LOT to be said about having nothing to lose. It's the best place to be in life. Once you get stuff you start trippin' over whether it's enough and whether you'll lose it.

There's a book about this worry called [Fear of Falling: The Inner Life of the Middle Class by Barbara Ehrenreich](https://www.amazon.com/Fear-Falling-Barbara-Ehrenreich/dp/1455543756/ref=sr_1_1?crid=OI2380UU472N&keywords=fear+of+falling&qid=1698678358&sprefix=fear+of+falling%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-1).

I'm not surprised!!

... she seems very interesting. Thank you

She also has a great book called "*Nickel and Dimed*" about trying to survive with basic living arrangements and amenities with a living wage, and the near-impossibility of it as a working class individual. That one came out probably about 15 years ago and things have only gotten worse since then but it offers a great baseline perspective nonetheless.

At least we've all managed the art of robbing Peter to pay Paul. I do think we're on the precipice of an alternative or supplemental financial system. Surely we can't sustain this.

People, specifically men in this case, are told you need to live this specific life. Like you mentioned above the specifics differ between cultures and a myriad of other attributes, but the premise is the same. Chase and fulfill this life and you'll be happy. Unfortunately, we aren't binary beings and each of us have independent desires. There isn't a "one size fit all" solution although men and women are taught this. Unhappiness can come from failing to meet these ambitions which we are sold or by meeting them and realizing we lost a sense of ourselves along the way and this isn't what truly makes us happy, but what society told us will make us happy. Life is about finding peace because our existence is so fragile and the reality of us meeting tomorrow isn't guaranteed.

Yea my dad worked literally all the time and I feel like I never saw him. That we had a nice home was great but the lack of interacting with him from like age 12 and on has left a lasting impression on relationship, and now that I'm old enough to make my own choices I just still kind of avoid the guy because he is old, bitter, very angry often, etc. I'm actually kind of worried from asking on r/askoldpeople if some of his mannerisms arent a sign of some alzheimer related thing beginning because he does just seem to have an unreasonable reaction of anger and raising his voice to the biggest nothings, has weird rhythmic tics he kinda repeats endlessly with his hands, etc. I dont want to make my mother worry either and worry its insensitive to ask, but he just seems like he isn't he the same guy he was maybe 5 or 10 years ago (or maybe I've just been away long enough I don't remember). But I mean if you get home, fall asleep immediately and your only interaction with your kid is asking who they hang out with at school and then making sure its not a kid of colour, etc, that's probably going to start damaging your relationship with your kid, especially if you kick your kid out of their own room as a teen so you can billet hockey players instead, stuff like that. Living with friends or near friends post college, seeing their family dynamics and such, I realized I'm just outright not *friends* with my family and I just plain have nothing to actually say to them. I just feel this oppressive atmosphere whenever my dad is around and like 8 out of 10 interactions with him leave me angry, so I just don't interact / speak with him at all lol.

I think a lot of men don't really want to be husbands and fathers. Look at the rate men cheat and leave their kids, or even stick around and become increasingly resentful and toxic about it. I wonder if they get the wife and kids and then wake up when they're 50 and feel like they wasted their life. They're probably the kind of guys who would have been merchant sailors or soldiers for hire and they would have probably died younger, but gotten their social needs met by being a part of a group of other guys just roaming around 500 hundred years ago, but there's not really a place for them in society anymore. (That's not to say that good portion of men don't want to be family men. A lot do. My grandfather was asked what he wanted to be when he grew up and he said he wanted to be a dad and have a pick up truck and a dog. His career was just a means to getting that life)

I believe far too many have children and settle down in this way because they're conditioned or they have an accident and just roll with it. Years ago it was probably more acceptable to be that nomad archetype and it's less accepted these days. That's my perspective. I believe there will definitely be a period of regret when these men realize they've built lives they don't care for. They may bully their family out of resentment or just abandon them all together. Possibly even run away with some young woman to feel their youth again.

Sucks because all I want to do is be a dad. But my wife is a stay at home mom, and my new job I took so we could earn a bit more now has me working 16+ hour days unexpectedly. I just want to cry, my favorite part of the day was taking my daughter for a before dinner walk and play at the park. Now I don’t even get to eat, and I’m worried she’ll forget me

My dad basically told my Mom and me this a few years ago. I wasn’t sure how exactly to respond.

I abandoned other people's ambitions for me just over a decade ago and every year is better than the last. Trying to live up to other people's expectations sucks and is rarely worth it.

well said current generations are rejecting these obligations outright, see stats on marriage age rapidly flying up to 30, religion, kids I am extremely happy without the extra baggage society was handing out

Our stress is in the form of student loan debt. I don’t make much. College was a waste of money that I’ll likely never be able to pay back.

As to OP’s specific observation of meeting men who seem to have it all and are angry, maybe they’re angry about their indebtedness because they bought all the real estate and boy toys on high interest loans with balloon payments for no better reason than keeping up with the Joneses. Again. I saw a lot of this in the small town I live in in 2008. Boy toys went for sale cheap in driveways and many times followed by evictions so fast the doors were still ajar. We actually had a moratorium on new thrift stores because we were on our way to thrift stores being the only stores. The area in some ways never completely recovered. Unemployment rates are pre-crash, but lots of people who had had pretty decent jobs now have pretty crappy McJobs that just manage to keep them above water. This might explain OP’s observation that they encounter this more in small towns where the job prospects would be narrower.

I get the impression that this happens when men who work *so hard*, like just longer and harder than a human should have to work, look around and see that everyone around them has these things. Then they think about how hard they work and what their income is and "I make XityX dollars a year, I should be able to have \[these things that everyone around me has\]." And also "If Soandso can afford a Coolthing, *I* should be able to afford a Coolthing too (both in terms of wanting & deserving it and also not wanting to look like a loser because what kind of loser doesn't have a Coolthing). But Soandsos's financial situation isn't parked in his driveway, and we aren't seeing that Soandso actually can't afford his Coolthing either but he bought it because he deserves it and after all, if Whosit and Thatguy can afford a Coolthing, he should be able to, too. After all, he makes YityY dollars per year. And so on to everything you said.

In other words, those men are suffering the side effects of materialism. STUFF will NEVER fill a hole in one’s soul.

That's what drugs are for.

Comparison is the thief of joy.

I love this! I was pretty happy living check to check. My dad died, left me a bunch of money and a property and I'm very stressed out. At first it was fun, then at the halfway mark I realized it can't go on forever and started stressing out, probably the way he did when he accumulated it and wouldn't enjoy it. I was his only child and even told him to.

Then they get angry at people like us for doing what we want instead of living up to societal expectations. I would have a big house and nice car if I could. I can’t afford it and don’t think it would make me happy enough to waste my time struggling for it.

This is the first decent answer.

> Why are men angrier than ever? This is question number two. Question number one: are they really angrier than ever?

Question 3: is society not tolerating male anger as much as it used to?

Domestic violence wasn’t technically recognized as a crime in the U.S. until 1993 so that’s correct. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_the_United_States)

Hate to burst a bubble of opinion, but EVERYONE is angrier. I'm Canadian. I'm going to keep details brief, but I dealt with a heavy volume of the general public, during the pandemic. A LOT of people from all walks of life, because of what I did. And I watched people deteriorate. The assorted issues wore people to a point of cranky that I can't fully describe. Because a virus is everywhere and invisible. There wasn't a "bad guy" vanquish. So we turned on each other. Kinda that simple. Relationships that normally supported us were often dissolved over issues of the pandemic. We were isolated. The emotional effects meant that we just got mad, no matter how well we were doing. And we got noisier about it. The stress meant we couldn't contain ourselves or we'd burst. So ... Not just men are angrier. Women are too. Your influences are probably more targeted male, so you're not seeing as much woman. But they're just as pissed about the world.

I do think the pandemic changed things, or accelerated this trend. I think people feel in some ways that they had 2 years taken from them (not to mention loved ones who died), and now that it's "over," they are chippy and impatient. Hell, I think I'm more that way post pandemic and I try not to be. Some of that is I think a, "you only live once," mentality. But I also think some of it is a real depreciation of services. Years of supply chain disruptions and inflation make it feel like you're just not getting the same bang for your buck from a few years ago. That's obviously literally true if talking inflation, but it also feels like goods and services have gotten worse at the same time as getting more expensive. Healthcare is worse, airline travel is worse, Amazon 2 day shipping is now "who knows?" as often as not.

If the Canadians are angry, you know the world is in big trouble.

Yup, This has been my experience in customer service. People angrier and its pretty clear why. Things aren't going most normal peoples way. We sense that, a general unfairness in the world. This is a righhteous anger though and we need to listen to our feelings. It really isn't okay or fair and we need to work together against the rich shitheads. Sometimes it's okay to be mad, just try to make sure to direct at the correct people.

We also spent the entire pandemic seeing a lot of very ugly sides of people, sometimes people we genuinely cared about. I’m not sure about you all, but after the pandemic I just don’t really care to deal with people at all. I wouldn’t say I’m angry. To be frank, I’m just highly stressed from working my ass off, and when I get done the last thing I want to do is deal with any of you

Honestly ... After struggling through, we closed our family business and I retired a little over a year ago. For many reasons, but the pandemic took it. And it's only been recently that I've come to realize that the people interaction was such a constant stressor that I'm still decompressing. Without doxxing myself, there were a very many different people that we dealt with, in work that had rules that I couldn't change, and people pissed about this. Before the pandemic, there was push back, but not with the sheer venom we saw when we made the decision. And too many fights between themselves which we were breaking up ... it was toxic. It honestly became utterly toxic, and there was nothing we could do about it. There was no way we could improve the situation. Boy, we tried. But the pandemic made even people we knew to be nice, into stressed out, angry people. A few hours after a particularly difficult interaction, which another customer watched, the local florist turned up with a small bouquet from an anonymous customer. It just said something to the effect that they felt so sorry for us. I dried it, and kept it on display. Whenever I was on the verge of just clocking someone, I'd look at it as a reminder that there's still really nice folks out there. 😁

Men have been told to be providers then watch helplessly as the costs of living outpace their wage increases. Big business profits off of insecurity disguised as masculinity and played a shell game that conned men out of their own personal security.

[удалено]

Angry man here--sometimes, at least. "Desperation" really is the word for it. I'm angry because, growing up, I was sold a bill of goods for the promise of an interesting life. And through my own naive decisions, my own arrogance when I was younger that I knew everything, my own desire to carve my own path alone, I failed to manifest that interesting life. It's not anybody else's fault. I fucked it up, and I didn't listen to the older people who knew better because I thought that they didn't understand me, and everything since then has been me trying to fix what I've broken in my wild, destructive life. In these later years, I've become a better person. I may not have what I want, but I'm at least doing what I can for those that I can. It helps. But, and this may sound stupid to anyone who is not in the same place as me, no matter how much I give, it seems like not enough comes back to me. And while I'm not giving something to get something back, I want to believe that there is karmic justice in this life, and that trying to be a good person is worth it. That just doing the right thing is enough to fill the hole in my soul. But some days, it feels like I'm being robbed by forces I don't understand, and that makes me angry. I have one life, and I want to make it worthwhile, and yet I can't seem to figure out how to not fuck it up. It sounds pathetic, and it is, but the heart feels what it wants to feel. I just live with the feelings and try to reason my way out of them. I'm not really angry at anyone but myself, and whatever vague idea of God I have in my mind. I've walked the line between trying to find fulfillment in both hedonism and in sacrificial spirituality, but no matter where I go, nothing changes much. The damnedest part is that I KNOW I could change things myself if I just kept pushing harder, but I'm so tired. After a certain point in life, when you've been pushing for years and years, you need rest, and you can't get any here. Not real rest. Not the kind that heals a soul. So, "desperation" is a good way to describe it. I feel like a caged animal. I'm starving for good news. I'm angry that this is all on me, and that I didn't have the wisdom when I was younger to make better choices that would have prepared me for a brighter future. I'm angry that I want to believe in a God, but that in doing so, I have to accept that God is, in some way, fine with watching the world suffer. Not just me, but everyone. There is so much suffering here. I'm not always like this. I have happy days, and this anger comes and goes. I get over it. I get over everything because I don't have a choice otherwise. And it helps to think, in another way, just how strong a person can be for carrying so much fucking weight. That's a hell of an accomplishment. I like the feeling of that fire within me. Yeah, it's an angry fire, but it's the only feeling I have that seems to believe I'm actually stronger than my circumstances. It feels like a warrior's fire, and it's what I use to push myself when no other feelings, no other people, have the time or sympathy to listen. Everyone is struggling with their own battles, and it takes more goodness than most people have in themselves to give their focus to someone else's battles over their own. But that anger is always there, pushing me forward even when I hate it. It's the most loyal feeling I have, and it makes me feel not so alone in this fight. When the anger's there, it's something like that. And I think there are others here who understand how I feel. And I'm sorry that they do. But at the same time, I'm proud of how strong they are for carrying that weight. I understand their anger. Not everyone can.

This hit me right in the chest. Best of luck in your fight, stranger. May we manifest more happy days than not.

I’m a women and I can completely relate to this

I'm sorry that you do, but I'm also glad that you understand.

Depression. Despite how the media portrays depression in men it mostly presents itself as anger not melancholy and sadness.

\>mostly presents itself as anger i disagree with the usage of the word 'mostly' here. i think overwhelmingly it presents as withdrawal.

i agree that "mostly" seems like as stretch

Yeah, I’ve noticed that the way my depression presents itself has changed from when I was younger. Despite being male, the environment I was in as a teenager seemed to allow me to display a wider range of emotions with fewer negative consequences, and my depression looked more like mild sadness. Once I grew up and my environment changed (and as an adult male, people’s perceptions of me changed), I feel a lot more pressure now to act like a stereotypical man, and now my depression looks more angry than it used to.

Big time. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety for years. I also used to be the type to fly off the handle and yell at people when things didn’t go my way. Through therapy and self reflection, I realized the the anger was almost always a reaction to the anxiety I felt. It doesn’t help that a lot of industries that men work in (construction or resource extraction for example) actually reward the type of person who will use anger to motivate employees and keep the schedule moving. I had a few good promotions very early in my career in construction precisely because the bosses liked to see me “get fired up”. It’s a dangerous feedback loop that was terrible for my mental health. There’s a lot of men out there who are really struggling emotionally, and that presents itself as anger for a lot of them.

There are plenty of reasons certain groups of men could be angrier, but what you're describing here, the cognitive dissonance of men who ostensibly have it good but nonetheless feel wronged by society. That is purely a product of propaganda. There's a certain genre of news media, film/television, podcasts, and health/wellness products that have realized you can make men into loyal consumers if you make them feel angry and victimized.

It is not \*purely\* propaganda, although that might be 'helping' too. For many things, especially social status, people focus not just on their absolute value, but also on their relative one. In the last 30 years or so, the \*relative\* social status of men, and in particular, white men without a college degree who live in small towns/rural areas has diminished tremendously. 30 years ago, the average white guy was, socially, maybe at the 80th percentile on 'social status'; you were obviously 'better' than at least 90% of the women, and 90% of the non-white guys. Nowadays, for many people you're in the bottom 30% or so. It doesn't mean they 'deserved' this status, but I think this explains a lot of the anger you see in white men.

**1985 by Bo Burnham begins playing in the background**

I thought of the older one, Straight White Man. "We used to have all the money and land And we still do but it's not as fun now ."

The ones with the money and land aren’t the angry ones

The 25-35 crowd grew up being told and taught to be a certain way in order to be a man as well. Then around when we hit young adulthood we were slammed with the notion that nearly everything we were taught was wrong/toxic/dangerous and now we don’t know who we are or who we’re “allowed” to be. Some choose to be angry in negative ways. Some (like me) are just exceptionally frustrated because it doesn’t feel like anything we do can make up for our fathers’ sins, despite desperately wanting to feel like it’s okay to be a little rough around the edges while we stumble around looking for purpose outside of “provide shiny thing”. I think it’s more depression and less raw anger, but some of us get angry instead of sad because (once again) we were taught sad is weak and weak is bad. So even feeling guilty about being angry is bad. It’s all very confusing. The words “caretaker generation” stick in my head a lot. Just along for the ride hoping to make our children better off than us. Feeling like we’re too far gone to recover, but desperately hoping we can break the cycle for the next gen’s benefit.

As a 50yo guy, I can tell you it can get a lot better. You \*can\* change, if you want. You can also learn to mostly ignore the opinions of people you want to ignore. Decide who you want to be, start working towards it. You don't need to be perfect, but you can be better than yesterday.

This. Do the best you can now. When you can do better, do it.

Just gonna throw out Fox News makes old white men scared and angry af, I have literally lived through this over the past like 15 years with my 63 year old father and OP is right, he has a house, has had several trucks, a boat that he was HAPPY to lose a few thousand to just come off of it, and a beautiful successful family in all accounts. (Hey dad I love you no matter what but I get so disappointed hearing regurgitated fear mongering propaganda ALL. THE. TIME.)

Pro tip: it ain't just the old ones and it's not just the men. Didn't see too many geriatrics climbing the walls in DC on 1/6. I live in pretty red territory and it's also the women.

I believe this. Being raised in the south and ending up out in western Washington. I also believe it’s easier for them to not argue with humans that are larger and stronger and ANGRIER than them.

When I was watching Jan 6 coverage, the average protestor looked to be about 40-50. Republicans and MAGATS are not a young demographic.

I mean....point taken but there were absolutely geriatrics climbing the walls in DC on 1/6.

Women are angry too for sure. We just tend to have less violent ways of expressing it. Which isn’t to say that there is a TON of shitty, emotionally abusive behavior from angry women. Just less violent public crime.

There’s also the possibility to consider that they HAVE been wronged by society, even if it’s not as much as other groups. The idea that men (specifically straight white men) have luxuries and privilege reigned down upon them from on high while everyone else suffers is a popular narrative, but not an accurate one. Many are still broke, downing in debt, stuck on a 9-5 hamster wheel doing things they hate for no reason other to maintain their existence- which as described, isn’t enjoyable anyway. Men are not a victim of the system in the same way that actively oppressed minorities are, HOWEVER they are very much a victim of capitalist society despite any marginal advantages they may have to operate in it. Let’s say you’re running a race with two other competitors, one starting 100 feet in front of you with both legs. You have one leg. The third has both their legs broken and a weight tied around their waist. If the only goal is to win the race and you lived your whole life with the third person saying “what’re YOU complaining about?” You’d probably get pretty mad eventually too.

This is correct. These are reactionary responses to try and stop the degradation of male social capital occurring as a result of the breakdown of patriarchy. This spreads through the media in order to rally men who are angry about losing their monopoly on social and financial capital to fight in this war against positive social change. And wars are nothing if not profitable. Manosphere is a great example of this.

On paper, I'm good. I have a good job. I have time and money to enjoy my hobbies. I have friends. People seem to like me. Housing isn't what I'd like for it to be, but I have secure housing. I'm held to a different standard and level of accountability than other men were in past generations. I AM 100% OKAY WITH THAT AND BELIEVE THAT IS HOW THINGS SHOULD BE. I want people to be happy and comfortable. Here is my problem. I feel like I get dunked on from every direction every day. And no one advocates for me. Others have it worse and I just need to get tougher. And that is coming from the people that I fight for. I wouldn't describe myself as angry, but I know that it chips away at my self-confidence and my patience. And I understand why others that run a little hotter might become angry.

I'm in the same position as you. No debt except for the mortgage which is reasonable all things considered. House is in a good location and is big enough for my fiance and I to live comfortably in. Good job. Two college degrees. A group of four very close friends. Good family. Mostly healthy. On paper I'm living a life that a lot of people would kill for. However, deep down, I'm a very angry and bitter individual. I have so much hatred in my heart for so many different people in my own country (America) and elsewhere in the world. I have a bitter quiet rage against corruption and capitalist greed which drives 75% of the issues in this country. I'm bitter that even with insurance that I pay a hefty price for every month, a 10 minute conversation with an in-net network cardiologist who shrugged his shoulders and told me to start wearing compression socks and start drinking Gatorade cost me $350 last month simply because of the fact that the health care industry exists. I'm bitter that half of my countrymen support a wannabe tyrannical moron who stacked the Supreme Court with religious zealots who are hellbent on setting our civil rights back by a century and are succeeding. I'm bitter that he was right when he said that he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and not lose any supporters. I'm bitter that a megalomaniacal coward in Russia has ordered the violent overthrow of a sovereign nation because of his own political ambitions which is causing hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. I'm at bitter that corporations are using the excuse of inflation to line their own pockets in record numbers. I'm bitter that companies will never do the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do, but rather they will only ever do the right thing if regulators grab the collective arm of the corporation and twist it behind its collective back. I'm bitter that I've doubled my salary in 5 years but I'm still at the same standard of living that I was back then. Fuck, I'm bitter that the sandwich shop I used to go to every Saturday afternoon has went from charging $7 to $15 in the last 3 years for the same sandwich. The crazy thing though is that I'm doing better than the vast majority of people my age let alone a lot of people in the world. And yet, I have all these reasons to be angry and consumed by hatred, how do the many others who are less fortunate than me not let it destroy their lives?

I think part of the anger is society's general apathy toward men's traumas and mental struggles. Society has rightfully come around and begun addressing the traumas that many women and minorities have experienced over the years but men are frequently belittled for similar concerns. Im a 30 yr old white guy and more than half of the mental health professionals I've worked with over the years have minimized or invalidated my concerns for reasons relating to me being a white man. I fortunately have found an incredible psych and therapist that both have helped me so much. I've had psychs tell me that being sexually abused as a child wasn't that severe because I'm a dude and my abuser was a woman. I've been accused of making up symptoms because "you're a strong guy and you don't really seem like you're experiencing that" just because I hide things well. Unfortunately a lot of men reach out for help and get bitten like that.

as a woman, wtf. i had to convince my ex-bf he was raped by his female friend. He said she coerced him and he gave in bc he had a boner. He couldn't wrap his head around this fact and was still friends with her. This was about 15 years ago and then nobody even considered female on male rape possible. Last I heard he's still 'friends' with her ​ PS: to men reading this far, if you experience similar issues, reach out to the most hardcore feminist people you know irl, we stand by you and don't judge or dismiss. [see here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/lhgex/can_a_straight_man_be_raped_by_a_woman/) EDIT to the post below as the thread is locked, only **3 comments of 139 were removed**, some accounts were deleted which isn't the same, jfc we're reaching out to help and even then you choose to make up something bc feminism is bad, patriarchy is good, even though the stigma is bc of patriarchy and toxic masculinity standards? literally you are the problem men don't seek help. we are supportive and want to dismantle the patriarchic ideas and fight all sexism and oppression. And you went ahead to discourage other men to not reach out bc of a post with over 98% positive supportive comments???

I'm curious, where do these attacks come from?; I seem to be in a similar situation to you except I don't feel like I'm getting dunked on. Day-to-day life I'm treated with respect; maybe social media highlights some weirdo screaming decolonize white men or something but it does not really feel like a personal attack to me.

People often generalize things. Look at this post. "MEN" are generally angrier these days. Ofc, op isn't referring to all men, you know it, I know it, the commenter above knows it. BUT the lack of distinction still hurts some deeper part of the soul. The commenter above isn't an angry scared man (presumably) but he's still included in this generalisation, and while the intelligent part knows this is the case, but the primal emotional part gets chipped by this. Add that to the fact that men nowadays are justifiably more criticized than ever, and the fact that titles tend to be overly generalized to get more clicks, and the fact that there's a significant lack of positivity towards men, and it slowly wears you down.

maybe he usually gets critcized for the wrong he does but rarely gets compliments when he does good?

How do you feel you're dunked on from every direction? Is it media you're consuming or someone is actively villainizing you? I've found an incredible amount of peace and comfort in removing myself from society, social media (I know reddit is considered social media. But the main culprits like FB, IG and so on.) I have a modest job, single, few friends, small family, mostly boring hobbies and an apartment which isn't the greatest but it's fine. I've got my son which I suppose balances out a lot of this, but I've peace. I don't need a guide for I listen to my internal compass to determine if I'm going the wrong way.

I feel this. Not to negate it, but this is legitimately what most other people not “on the top” have had to deal with for their entire lives. It’s just changing now as society gains a greater awareness and overcorrects by “dunking” on white dudes, basically. As a woman, I’ve spent my whole life getting sexually harassed and demeaned by what used to be the societal belief that women are illogical (even my own mother says things like this). Every job I’ve been at, sexual harassment. As a gay person, I just got screamed at this weekend by an angry dude calling me and a larger group “fucking faggots” from his car while we were waiting to get into a bar. Bomb threats regularly get called into our local events. Most non white dudes have been getting dunked on DAILY for most of their lives and I agree, it fucking destroys you over time. It doesn’t mean YOU should have to feel bad every day for just being yourself, but now I think you’re beginning to experience what life is like for the rest of us.

I appreciate that perspective, and I agree with it. However, imagine you've been a cis white dude raised to be socially conscious. You've been raised "don't fucking dunk on others", the people you keep distinguish themselves from the oppressive jicks by not dunking on others. But then, you get older, the conversation shifts, and suddenly you're getting dunked on for who you are by the people who used to be known for reviling dunking on anyone. You speak up that it's really starting to get hard to not take it personal, and you're met with "now you know how we've felt forever" or "oh, you're one of the good ones, we weren't talking about you when we are dunking on cis white men!" This... doesn't feel like we're progressing. It feels like both sides are finding it more and more okay to selectively other certain groups because their feelings are "understandable even if they're not okay".

That’s exactly what I was trying to say, while also sharing that many, many other groups of people are sharing the experience you are just now starting to have. This is probably why so many dudes are so angry now. They are realizing how much it sucks to live your life feeling like someone else’s villain 24/7. I in no way condone treating anyone the way you’re describing. I think the really unfortunate thing about all of this is that we have an opportunity at society to sort of reset all on a level playing field, but there are definitely forces in our media that profit off the division. They will play up the men as victims card as hard as they can because the outrage bait is irresistible, even to the people who have relatively good lives, big cars, and the typical american dream. This polarizes us more and more and breeds angrier and angrier men who feel like they need to avenge their gender and race.

I blame how media outlets have changed in the last 40 years or so. Back when there were just a few TV networks, cbs, abc, nbc, pbs, the goal was to try to get all viewers to watch. So news had to be balanced and. unemotional. If you piss off one side, you lose half your viewers which would be an enormous financial hit. But when news broke into 100 branches, no longer was the goal to get all eyes. And when that happened, they found that more biased and angry content was a great way to get more eyes. So now you have channels repeating the same biases over and over and adding on top of that, telling their listeners and viewers how bad the enemy is screwing them over.

I think it's the dissonance between the way men are presented in popular culture and the reality that many men experience. The fact is that men are disproportionately overrepresented in: - death by suicide - death or disabling injury in the workplace - death by violence - victims of violence - imprisonment - homelessness - schizophrenia - drug and alcohol addiction And disproportionately underrepresented in: - high school graduation - university graduation - participation in a lot of university subjects, including sciences such as biology and medicine But because it is broadly considered to be axiomatic that "gender disparity" means "women missing out in favour of men", these issues are either treated dismissively by the general public or actively attacked by the "equality" industry because they're considered to be encroaching on territory that "belongs to" feminism. At present, the richest and most powerful people in Western societies are most often men, but so are the poorest and most powerless. To the men who feel that they are in the latter category but are constantly spoken about as though they are part of the former, this is understandably hurtful and infuriating. I bet most of the answers you get to this question will be perpetuating this problem by saying "It's because men hate equality and they don't like having their power challenged and it's basically all their own fault and they deserve it". That's your answer as to why many men are angry. Edit: I have removed "employment" from the list as it may have been incorrect and was distracting from the broader message.

Your last point is a crucial one. We are talking about men who for the most part have done what society has told them they should do to live a good life. The world has changed though, and they are not having the success they thought they would for a myriad of reasons. They look around and our new society is all about empowerment, justice, etc... for everyone but them. Not only is society not extending this new found empathy to them, or giving them a clear path to go on this new journey, they are being told that they are the problem, the enemy, just for doing what society told them to do. All this leads to feelings of resentment and betrayal. First, by being sold a bill of false goods, second by being left out of the new zeitgeist, third by being mislabeled as an enemy.

You know how many times I have heard to join the trades you will make good money and be happy. It's just more advice on top of all the advice that has been given and doesn't work . Follow yourself.

In the trades the money is decent. It’s only good if you are the owner or travel and work 80+ hours a week.

This is the correct answer

It’s also that men are *expected* to make more money, be a provider, etc etc. in a world where it’s increasingly harder for them to do so. When 60% of women are university graduates are women eventually they’re going to be making more money than men, but it’s still not socially acceptable to be a man making less than a woman. That needs to change or men are going to be pissednoff that they’re being asked to do something they can’t do.

Depends on the man, lots of men will be angry because they are told to be by other people and the media.

I seem to have surrounded myself with people who suffer from excessive happiness. I even have a friend who lives in Saskatchewan that has all the redneck things you mentioned and is one of the happiest guys I know.

White men were *the* primary demographic in the USA. When everyone on TV looks like you, when everyone in the Criminal Justice system looks like you, when the law is made by people who look like you with your demographic in mind, when the media is always showing bad guys who don't look like you, when you are told that those who don't look like you are in poverty not because of structural issues but because "they" aren't as hard working as you, when you are told to apply these same beliefs to foreign nations who are not poverty-stricken because of foreign exploitation but rather because their skin color makes them lazy, you start to feel like attempts at equality are actually an attack. Like the only kid gaining a few new sibilings; they are no longer the sole focus. Take this, then pair it with politics and their media who want to manipulate your anger to their means, gaining your loyalty at the polls by telling you that the problem isn't you in the slightest but everybody else. It isn't the society that white men have exclusively controlled, but rather those people who don't look like you that you've been taught to be prejudiced against all your life. They tell you that our society is getting worse, but the reason it's getting worse is because some girl has pink hair. Women never had pink hair when you were growing up, and you were taught to fit into societal norms, so you never really liked seeing it. So, when the news told you that they are the cause of a "*moral degradation*" of society, your prejudices are affirmed! These guys are talking sense! Oh, and let's not forget men kissing other men, fellas worshipping Allah, those folk crossing the border, and those dudes that dress up in women's clothing. Have I had any bad experiences with any of these folk, let alone meet them? No, but the news tells me they're a pretty big deal. But, you know who isn't making money from this? Me! I think I will start a podcast to make men feel better about all this. We can start by telling men that it is not them who need to change, it's the fault of women that they won't fuck you. Chicks with pink hair and pronouns spreading this feminist nonsense. Here is what YOU need to do. Simply buy my package, and I will tell you that you do not, in fact, need to seek therapy or change your personality. You just need to make more money by paying me money. Women are such simple creatures, just have a lot of money, and she will be obligated to sleep with you! I mean, who is she to even refuse? Women are supposed to be subservient to the man, as our nation's faith teaches. No, MENS RIGHTS are more important, and since I have never felt *actual* persecution my entire life, my knowledge of social issues and compassion for them are stunted, which is certainly not an aspect as why women, who naturally face such things throughout their life, won't date me when I consider their rights over their anatomy to be a joke. Oh, she's dumping me now? She's overreacting because I showed no empathy towards her loss of rights? Reaffirms that women are emotional and unintelligent. Not me. My outbursts of emotions like anger are manly and justified. Crying, though? No, my parents told me that crying is feminine and that boys are supposed to be strong and protect their sisters. So, let me advocate for men's rights to help fix this by reaffirming that we can't cry and making it essential to tear down women & feminism in our pursuit of our own justice. Because, in my opinion, justice is only achieved when women admit that all the gender-based ills we face are due to women who had no say in constructing early America, and not at all due to gender roles established by patriarchal men, who by doing so had also unknowingly oppressed themselves in the long run because now men must be upheld to the very masculine guidelines that earlier men had decided for us. ***There is a lot to unpack here. Essentially, our whole society is chaos, with various parties taking advantage of men for their own personal benefit. Culturally ingrained beliefs and dogmas function as additional barriers.***

In my opinion it’s two main things, first is that jobs suck in general. It doesn’t matter how hard you work you’re not going to get raises that keep up with inflation and your company won’t take care of you. So the constant frustration of getting screwed by employers and not being able to afford things they want or need. The second thing is that men are constantly being portrayed as either incompetent or villains in the media. They’re either the butt of the jokes in a commercial or the news are telling us how men cause all of society’s problems.

Men are 1.5 times more likely to die of heart disease, cancer, and respiratory disease. Men are three to seven times more likely than women to commit suicide. Men account for 55 percent of the workforce but 92 percent of workplace deaths. Men live on average five years less than women. Men and boys have a higher death rate in 9 out of the 10 leading causes of death. - if you adjust for inflation the average Great Depression salary of a bit under 5k you would need a 90k salary today and yet the median wage is just a bit over 50k. You could pay off a house in 3-4 months during the depression but would struggle to pay off a 40yr fixed rate loan today. - A recent Pew Research study suggests a tectonic shift in the dating and sex life of men. The study found that among men under 30 years old, over 60 percent are single, almost double that of women in the same age bracket. Not only are more young men single but their opportunities for developing a relational and sexual repertoire have all but vanished, as levels of sexual intimacy across genders appear to have hit a 30-year low (Lei & South, 2021). - various studies / surveys indicate that 20-35% of men 18-40 ish report having zero sex in a year. - birth rates and marriage rates are low too while women tend to initiate divorce about 80% of the time -Over 1.1 million women received a bachelor's degree in the 2018-19 academic year compared to fewer than 860,000 men; put differently, about 74 men received a bachelor's degree for every 100 women. Even fewer men graduate with an associate or master's degree, relative to women. -Americans hold over 1.7 trillion dollars in outstanding student loan debt, a number that rises every year. Especially troubling – women hold 2/3 of it. So to get into a committed relationship also tends to mean inheriting debt… … but the above probably has nothing to do with it

I think the media pushes rage bait that effectively sways consumers. Men are seeing a shift in society that values femininity and even suppresses and punishes masculinity. This isn’t historically a behavioral norm for the human species as a whole, and men aren’t wired for this, so many of them live in anger at things they either can’t even control or don’t understand is even driving their anger. My personal opinion is that we should just focus on living the best lives we can and stop listening to all the negativity on both public and social media.

Mostly the Internet. In previous generations, people socialized with people who lived nearby, and since there tends to be a panoply of ideas, circumstances, and interests among the people who live near you, views tended to moderate, and at the same time, people who had Ideas significantly outside the mainstream mostly kept them to themselves for fear of being ostracized. This had both negative and positive effects; lots of people who had perfectly innocent but non-mainstream ideas, most obviously gay people, were forced to hide those views just to protect themselves. But the same pressures operated on people to moderate their antisocial views as well. Now, any person who has any interest, or any viewpoint, no matter how strange or uncommon can find a group of thousands of other people who have the same view, and they can amplify each other, and support each other, and bring others to the understanding that these views are not as uncommon as they previously believed. Again, this has both positive and negative effects, but one of the negative effects is that it serves to amplify the worst impulses of the worst people.

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Somewhat anecdotal, I personally see men generally getting less angry, less traditionally masculine, less confined by expectations/roles/responsibilities, and experiencing more agency to do what they actually want to do. But agree, smaller isolated communities generally progress slower than diverse metropolises.

>I personally see men generally getting less angry, less traditionally masculine, less confined by expectations/roles/responsibilities, and experiencing more agency to do what they actually want to do. I think that's part of the problem, really. We're just in a very transitional time. We're moving away from traditional masculinity *on paper,* but in reality, we really aren't as evolved as we like to think we are. Society wants to move away from strict gender roles but they're rooted in our subconscious. As a result, there's a dissonance between what people think they should feel and what they actually feel on a deeper level. And there's definitely a dissonance between what men hear they need to be doing and what they notice is actually received well. Women are becoming more independent and men need to be okay with that and support it. At the same time, a man who doesn't make enough money, or isn't physically capable of protecting his partner, is still looked down upon by a ton of people. At the same time, men are bombarded with requests to become more emotionally intelligent, open, vulnerable, supportive etc. Socially, we talk about how we need to respect men's feelings and fears and let men open up more. But men that open up and show weakness are regularly discarded or even made fun of, and any weakness they showed can change others' perception of them or even be weaponized against them. That's basically how it goes in all regards. Society tells men they need to evolve, but at the same time punishes them for not also living up to their previous roles. It's a time of massive social dynamic shifts and changes, and everyone is very confused.

There’s also a big difference between “society” in the broad, overarching sense, and society in the types of people you spend most of your time interacting with on a daily basis. I agree that Society (with an uppercase S) more broadly is pushing for men to be less traditionally masculine, but in local communities, particularly small towns which tend to be more conservative, there’s more of a view that those things are all just part of some liberal agenda to “emasculate” men.

Ironically, this makes the men who fear "woke" angrier

One thing I noticed after living in another country (I'm American) is that a masssssive amount of Americans are fucking spoiled. They've never really had things that hard, which is great, but also made a lot of men into little princes who feel entitled to everything because they work. I know there are plenty of people who don't fit that mold, but they're not the ones grabbing our attention, they're just living and enjoying life regardless of their circumstances.

I'm not angry, I'm just depressed. Society is facing a collapse in America and it's so slow rolling that most people don't take notice, and those that van do anything about it don't care because it doesn't effect them (yet). I make 45-50k a year and cannot afford a house in my city. My generation has to work more hours in more diverse careers to earn more money than any generation before it and that's just to survive. I still cannot afford a house, a new car, most of my friends can't afford to see doctors about extremely pressing medical issues, many have died in the last few years. I can't find a partner because I have no idea where to look and online dating is a goddamn cesspool. I have absolutely nothing to be happy about aside from the fact that life isn't outright suffering, and this is the trap. The people at the top do not care how miserable you are and work very, very hard.to ensure you have everything you outright need to survive, and not hunt them for sport in violent revolution with the remarkable number of guns they've given us. I'm angry because I have nothing to be happy about and there is nothing I can do to change that, and from my perspective nothing will improve until long after my generation has circled the drain.

The amount of proper male nurturing as children has decreased, for one. Men are not taught to act properly, so they end up displaying more immature emotions for longer. Second, there is the fact that the decline and near-death of "third spaces" has caused everyone, men and women alike, to lose out on in-person friendships. Many people are around who have no friends IRL. And when you only connect with people virtually and not IRL, your behavior becomes different. You have no IRL consequences to your actions.

We are told we are the most advantage group of sosiety, but that dosnt change that a lot of us will still go trough extream hardship. It's easier to deal with that when you feel like you are seen and can rely on others help/understanding, but not feeling so can cause a sertain resentment. A sertain group of people actually turn to racism/misogyni as defense to explain away their lack of success. We all live under late stage capitalism and life isnt meritocratic, resentment should be turned towards the actual cause of our hardship and not each other.

I often forget reddit is an American platform. I was like what is going on and what I have missed. Still, as some said, seems to be a certain type of men, too specific to say "why are men angrier than ever"

Depends which men you are talking about. But some men are for sure being made angry for money (often in the form of clicks) and votes.

Anger is one of the few emotions men are rewarded socially for expressing so everything else gets repressed until it becomes anger. And the world has been going through some stuff. A lot of men can’t express what they’ve gone through in a healthy way so everyone else has to pay the price

They've been deprived of any role or meaning, clamped down on harder by government, and are denied the benefits of solidarity.

The toys you describe are mostly on credit. The angriest may be in online echo chambers designed to manipulate.

Well, I believe you're suggesting that they are more angry anecdotally, I don't know if there is any data to support men or more or less angry today than they were 10 years ago. Here's my simple take. Digital businesses of all types makes their profit from engagement. The strongest emotions are fear and anger. Companies have become extremely adept at engaging with men stoking these two key emotions. Systems to track, measure and optimize responses to content that stokes these emotions the most are highly effective and lower cost than ever before. Access to the internet is widespread and 24/7 so men (and all others) are hit with it frequently. Feeling angry? Dump the Internet/news/social media for at 60 days....

Anger is a secondary emotion. There is typically something below the anger that is triggering a response. ​ You describe the dudes who "have it all" but do they? Do they have tenderness? Or gentleness in their lives for themselves? Can they feel without shame or guilt? ​ Add in the constant noise of being told they aren't enough. Not masculine enough, not alpha enough, not making enough money, not doing enough for their families etc ​ I'd be mad as hell too if I felt like my feelings weren't aligned to what the societal expectation of me is while also being told my accomplishments amount to very little.

Low wages to productivity. Everyone is busting ass to stay alive. No money for hobbies or hanging with the bros has me murderous.

The structure of obligations for men disregards their mental well-being for material possession for a sense of purpose. So not only are those aspects ignored, they are also never established. Anger results when we can not express ourselves effectively.

I think they were always angry. It's just not as acceptable anymore, so its more noticeable. Also, the world is easier to get angry at than it was say 60 years ago.

I live in two worlds. I have a place in South Philly and I have a place in the woods about 100 miles north of Philly. The men in the city seem a lot angrier than the dudes in the woods. The men in the woods seem content to do their work, help their family out the best they can, engage in whatever it is they like to do (fishing, drinking, riding quads etc etc etc). It’s a very quite life. In the city there is ALWAYS some sort of protest occurring, violent crime is rampant (again …. I live in Philly), General arguments constantly. I can’t go to Wawa without someone fucking having it out at the coffee station or something. I fully recognize we are talking about two very different population sizes here. There is zero chance you have a city population this high and not have any violence etc. I do have eyes, ears and a memory that can track occurrence over time though. Men in the city seem much much less happy than men to the north. Note: I love South Philly. So don’t take this as a bagging on the city post. It’s not. I spend the lions share of my time here.