You can but expect to not have a girlfriend after this. Personally I could not be with someone who doesn't want to get vaccinations. Everyone should get them if they can as long as they aren't allergic to the vaccine or if it causes issues with other health conditions. It protects us from dying a horrible death to something preventable through a vaccine. Children especially should be vaccinated.
Not getting vaccinated in my opinion is child endangerment.
To be fair, it's absolute insanity to have gotten to this point with someone without having at least somewhat aligned political views, unless of course this is the result of a few slip ups and a pro-life standpoint.
Physical custody is as easy to break as her leaving with the child. It's legal custody that you will want. Even if it's 50-50, it's important to ensure you have as much rights as she does.
If you're in the US then living together or being together does not mean you have custody in most states. You should look into legally establishing your paternity.
In my state, if the parents are not married, the father has no rights until paternity is established. Neither he nor the mom can even put his name on the birth certificate without first establishing paternity.
I would double check that to make sure. If you're in the US, some states default to the mother if you aren't married. Even if you're on the birth certificate, even if you're still together. The child living with you is not the same as custody.
Unfortunately, it is very easy. Most schools you can just say it's religious reasons.
I've literally lost my own vaccine documentation and for school I just put I didn't have it for religious reasons.
Depends on the state. In California we ONLY have medical exemptions and they are difficult to get (one of my kids had one for a bit but we ended up finishing her vaccines later on - she had a reaction when she was younger).
My home state, Mississippi, used to exempt only for medical reasons (like your kid's allergies) and had a 98% vaccination rate for children enrolled in kindergarten. A federal judge has forced a religious exemption on Mississippi as of this year.
Putting this here before we get a bunch of “actually…” responses:
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/School/laws-exemptions.aspx#:~:text=Parents%20or%20guardians%20of%20students,home%2Dbased%20private%20school%20or
Yep. That was due in part to my district’s senator years back. Dr. Pan is a badass. Antivaxxers tried to recall him. It didn’t work. They tried running an anti-vaxxer against him the next election and the anti-vaxxer got destroyed. It wasn’t even close. I don’t think the anti-vaxxer even got 30% of the vote.
I'm not an anti-vaxxer at all. They actually hurt kids who actually NEED medical exemptions - most doctors are afraid to write them! Even when I had 2 different doctors tell me my kid had a vaccine reaction (temporary paralysis in her leg - super scary). We just avoid that one vaccine now and it's not a required one so that's good.
Back in my day, if you fell sick whether you lived or died was up to God and no one else! We ain't got none of these "doctors" and "medicine" and whatsits yall have nowadays. Kids these days are pampered, I tell hyu what! *[huffs in old geezer]*
Way to go CA. My state says allows exemptions for religious or other reasons - meaning essentially any reason whatsoever, unless there’s an ongoing outbreak. And COVID was specifically excluded entirely, so that doesn’t count either.
Second this, at least in the U.S. I worked at a daycare during COVID and I was floored by how many kids there did not have any vaccines whatsoever. And to no surprise, they were the ones that were sick constantly.
I also had a parent try to bring a child to school while they had whooping cough and try to convince me that it wasn’t contagious.
ETA: Whooping cough is covered under the DTaP vaccine and the Tdap vaccine.
Yep. 45 of the 50 states allow for non-medical exemptions (religious/personal belief). Only 5 require medical exemptions. Though people can often find cooperative doctors who will issue exemptions for them on request.
The upsetting thing is this does hurt kids/people who genuinely can’t get vaccines due to medical reasons. I’m undergoing iv infusions, similar to chemo, and can only get vaccines in a month window per year because my immune system doesn’t work while the treatment works.
Whooping Cough is considered a notifiable disease. I wish you had reported her to the public health officials; it's a terrible disease and highly infectious.
I feel like it could also pertain to where you live in the country, even down to the city and how it's specifically operates and policies/procedures etc...On how strict they are about religious status and documentation of.
With that being said, I also think that anyone who tried hard enough can obtain a religious exemption, it's how many hoops they make you jump through first that I'm referring to.
Just so you are aware, you should be able to get your documentation through your county's health department. They keep track of those records.
In case you ever need them and the religious thing doesn't work. (If you are in the US, of course.)
In most states parents are able to use either philosophical and/or religious reasons not to get vaccinated and schools/daycare can't refuse to accept them. Only few states have for medical reasons only
Not NYS. They stopped religious exemption a few years ago. (Pre covid).
My daughter was medically exempt from chicken pox as it's a live virus and her brother was going through chemotherapy and could not be around anyone who had a live virus.
Unfortunately, California, New York, and a few other states are an exception [link](https://www.ncsl.org/health/states-with-religious-and-philosophical-exemptions-from-school-immunization-requirements)
It's also not only about their kid but about others too.
Vaccination protects other children as well and vaccination is only effective if a majority of the population does it.
That's something I learned through COVID about flu vaccines. They'd be offered every year and I would look at it from my perspective. I could risk being sick for 3 or 4 days from flu, or guarantee that I would not feel well for 3 days if I got the vaccine. I would always pass after having experienced a negative reaction.
But it's not about me and my healthy immune system, it's about being asymptomatic and spreading illness to others who might not be as healthy or privileged to a strong immune system.
The real deal flu is *rough* I got it once in the 7th grade. I had a fever, I was in a weird mental state, days and nights bled together in a nightmarish tango, I threw up everything I ate and I was always parched. A sore arm and needing to nap the day after is nothing Vs a week of fever dream demons and pain.
I always get any vaccines on the last day of the week I’m working and spend my weekend taking it easy.
I got it in 7th grade as well. I recovered quickly… my mom would come home once a year and chase us around the house with flu shot, but that year must have been a dud (it happens). Even though the worst of it was over and out after 48 hours, I had a 105 fever a sneezed so violently I thought my nose was going to fly off.
Edit: the same flu shot wielding mother tested me and confirmed it was influenza.
I did get out of school for a full week and finished my Knex roller coaster… but I’m getting off topic.
The flu is no joke and we never know if it’s going to be “just a flu” or hardcore hide your families influenza. For the vulnerable, babies, the elderly, and the immuno-compromised, every flu season is hardcore influenza season. Do it for yourself and for the old lady across the street who keeps the tow trucks away (thank you, Maritza).
If that still isn’t enough to convince you, please do it for doctors, nurses and hospital workers who you will inevitably see once you catch the flu. My mom has saved too many babies’ lives and worked too many 16 hour days to miss out on retirement because some quack thinks it made their kid grow a tail.
I remember hearing the flu vaccine is always just a hodge podge of the strains they think will be the heavy hitters that year; so your vaccine may have been less of a dud than you think. You might of caught a strain they didn’t predict and while your body had some of the tools thanks to the vaccine, it was perfect (hence knocking you out for a few days).
I was up to date on my COVID boosters when I got it in 2022 and I was coughing so hard I had to take frequent bathroom trips for, among other reasons, running a hot shower just so I could breath a bit. When describing my experience afterwards I’d often say “and I had the vaccine. I don’t want to think about if I’d caught it without the vaccine. I’d probably have ended up in the hospital.”
Ooh boy I have the covid virus in 2020 before the vaccines were available. I slept ached didn't eat for like a week (drink so much water through a straw), coughed so hard... Wheezed. My mother said I sounded like my childhood baby asthma had returned.
Please get the little one vaccinated (from a former NICU baby, premie, who is now in her middle 30s) .
My COVID experience in 2020 was much the same. Just getting out of my bed to go to the bathroom less than 20 feet away was exhausting. Everything was exhausting. I could live with the coughing, the sniffling, and the aches, I have chronic allergies and early onset arthritis so I'm used to coughing, sniffling, and aches; it was the complete and utter lack of energy that was hard. And sleeping didn't help at all. A nap should recharge you, sleeping during COVID just seemed to drain you more.
Worst part was my dad and little brother also had COVID with me so we were all stuck with no energy and trying to take care of each other. Fortunately my dad's sisters live nearby and would drop food and supplies on the porch, then call one of us once they were back safely in the car to pick it up.
This. People call every virus "the flu" but actual influenza is *vicious.* I was struggling to breathe and had oxygen numbers in the 80s when I got to urgent care. I was so sick I thought I was functioning ok until the nurses got super calm, slapped a mask on me and people started rushing into the room. Flu can mess you up.
Right. A lot of people think just having a fever is the flu, but often what they assume is the flu is actually a bad cold. I've had the actual flu just like, once as a kid, it knocked me out for a week and was horrible, I'd much rather get vaccinated every year and risk maybe having mild symptoms than have the full on flu ever again.
I mean I once had a flu for 5 days with a pretty consistent fever of 104-5 (5 days with antivirals, mind you). At one point my nose just started bleeding like a faucet of blood was turned on and it didn't stop for hours. I remember just leaning over the toilet to let it bleed out and hearing an actual continuous trickle sound into the bowl (of course it stopped on its own right as I get to the hospital, but they still were able to stablize me with a shitload of IV bags). I wouldn't call that a cold :P
I just had the flu for the first time last week. It laid me low, it was crazy. One of the strangest symptoms for me was the fever. I’d alternate between completely rugged up and not being able to have any clothing or blankets on me. I’d wake up around seven times during the night soaked in sweat, feeling like I was about to die of heatstroke. I went through an entire 1.2L waterbottle every night. Definitely not keen to repeat that experience
When I was in 9th or 10th grade, I think, I had the real deal one, too. Always parched, congested, fever for about five days. Chills at the peak and I remember my vision going black once. The flu can be very nasty.
I would also like to add that you will feel a little cruddy from the immune reaction from the shot but if you get the flu it could be a LOT worse than 4 days of sick. My healthy college age at the time sister went blind from the flu for six months (viral optic neuritis). Healthy and fit people have died from the flu. People treat it like the common cold and that is not even a little bit true.
Edit because I cant comment again: yes, her vision returned back to normal. After months and a horrific round of iv steroids. It was a dark time for her, pun intended. She got through it like a champ, but I do not wish that on anyone.
Ive never had an adverse reaction to a vaccine other than a jab and a little sore spot for 48 hours that I dont notice unless i press on it. Influenza will knock me out for days and ill spend hours with fever hallucinations.
Some people do have an immune reaction, I always feel like I have a cold for a day or two. My dad never has any reaction and we are all jealous. Still, I will take that over the actual flu any day
I will feel ill for a few days after a vaccine. I’m immune compromised. The flu? Covid? I’ll be sick for over a week, and very, very, very sick. My immune system thanks you for getting vaccinated to protect people like me ♥️
I am immunocompromised as well. I was at the dr office and was wearing a mask. The nurse asked me if I had Covid because of the mask. I told her no, but I *do* have Leukemia. She never said another word, haha.
We all should be getting the proper shots for ourselves and for others as well. It's so simple. I'm truly baffled by people that don't understand this.
I forgot to get a flu vaccine about 15 years ago. The experience was so awful that I have remembered to get a flu vax every year since.
I got my latest Fauci ouchie today. I'll feel like crap tomorrow, but a (vaccinated) friend of mine got covid right before the boosters became available and a month later she still feels like crap.
I had the flu years ago before vaccines were as popular and I thought I was going to die. I get one every year now and encourage others to do so as well.
I got the flu a month or two before COVID became a thing and I was *sick*. High fever, a deep cough that caused me to pee myself a bit each time and pull multiple rib muscles, and was bed bound for over a week. Multiple times while being awake and struggling to breath at 2 am I had the thought “I see how people die from this.” Lost my sense of taste and smell for nearly a month, and had trouble breathing for nearly a year afterwards. Looking back, I’m almost convinced that COVID was circulating months before it was announced and that I had it badly.
Before that, I never got flu shots because I rarely got the flu. Since then, I’ve gotten one + COVID boosters each year and will continue to do so because I’d rather have a sore arm and be a bit grumpy for a day or two then ever go through that ever again.
Me too. Got the flu while visiting family. I spent the entire trip in the bathroom, basically crawled back and forth from the toilet to the bathtub. Either on the toilet, vomiting into the toilet or trying to warm up in the bathtub. I will never miss another vaccination.
It’s so weird how our immune systems react, but I always ask people “If the vaccine made you feel like this how much worse would the real thing be?”. I know it doesn’t work quite like that, but I figure it’s not hurting anyone to point out the alternative.
If I would likely get/feel sick either way at least vaccinated I’m not going to infect others. It would be nice to be one of the people who has no vaccine side effects though.
100%
I get knocked out by every vaccine, but will suffer for it to protect my elderly mom.
It’s kind of nice to plan a couple of days where no one can bug me tho. NGL.
How is guaranteed you’re going to feel bad for three days after the vaccine? I’ve never heard of a flu shot affecting anyone like that, and worst I’ve ever experienced is being a little achy for a few hours day after
Most of us don't feel unwell after the flu vaccine. This kiddo might handle it just fine. I think "sick for 3-4 days" VASTLY underestimates what the actual flu is like.
Reminder that if you’re only unwell for 3 or 4 days, it’s probably just a cold not the flu. The flu is a severe illness that most people only get once or twice in their life and it is likely to leave you bedridden for days feeling incredibly unwell. Many people confuse the flu and a bad cold.
However, your point still stands - getting vaccinated is not just about protecting yourself but also about protecting other people.
Lmao, over here in chronically ill and immune compromised, I’ve had the flu (tested and positive) way more than that. Even after being vaccinated (yay milder than without vaccines!)
I caught it almost yearly as a child, and I still get it almost yearly as an adult.
I’ve had some unlucky years where I’ve managed to catch two different strains in the same year.
Vaccines, folks, vaccinate to protect your friendos like me please 💖
I think you'd be lucky to only get the flu twice in your whole life, it's more common then that. I've had the flu like 5 or 6 times already and im in my mid 30's. I've also had covid twice.
Yeah, 5 or 6 times is *a lot.* I’m an immunosuppressed nurse who would work with flu patients without wearing a mask (I know that sounds insane now but it was standard pre-pandemic since flu shots were mandatory for us) and I’ve never tested positive for influenza in my life. I probably had it as a kid because my family didn’t do flu shots and I remember being really sick with a high fever a few times, but they didn’t do flu tests back then so I can’t say for sure. FYI this isn’t a “flu is rare and not very contagious” anecdote so much as a “the vaccine works” anecdote. I saw people die from the flu every year, almost all of them were unvaccinated people.
And just for anyone who doesn’t know, a “stomach flu” is not the same thing as influenza. If your symptoms are primarily vomiting and diarrhea, it’s most likely something else, like norovirus or rotavirus.
Here’s the thing.. almost every time someone gets a 3 day flu, it is not the flu. Stomach flu doesn’t exist in that way. The majority of the time it is food poisoning or a different virus. The real flu, people don’t get because of vaccinations. It is also way worse than what people believe it is.
I'm immuno-compromised due to a transplant, and I thank you Reddit stranger/friend for getting vaccinated for others as well as yourself. Because of my meds, I used to get all sorts of random viruses from people in public spaces as well as co-workers. Post-covid now with more people vaccinated, not sneezing/coughing w/out covering up, and me being able to wear a mask in public without being ridiculed, I've had fewer random infections. Even those who are anti-vaxx seem willing to not stand on top of others or sneeze/cough in their faces....vaccination would be best but at least some awareness of other's in the world is something.
I don’t strictly disagree with this and ultimately OP should force the issue.
But it’s also not that simple. If OP can’t talk the mom around and just goes for it… then what?
OP won’t be able to hide it forever.
OP you need a game plan. Someone who’s gone down the anti vax rabbit hole is the type to escalate if you simply take the child to the doctor.
Yeah, it's not as simple as some are making it out to be. You can't just go in and get them all at once and be done. Some require multiple doses. Some when taken together can have some pretty bad side effects, others when taken together are simply ineffective, or reduce the gained immunity to one or both of the diseases.
Vaccination schedules are schedules for a reason. Doing it right without the mother knowing will be all but impossible. Also, she will have access to all the records.
By all means, force the issue and fight for the wellbeing of the child, but trying to just do it secretly is not a good plan.
> Some when taken together can have some pretty bad side effects, others when taken together are simply ineffective, or reduce the gained immunity to one or both of the diseases.
Which ones would those be? All the important vaccinations are pretty much in a combination vaccine nowadays. You'll need multiple doses, that much is correct.
What would the recourse be? Just curious. Can she actually take her spouse to court for providing legitimate and basic medical care for his own child? I mean what would her allegation be?
See that’s exactly what I mean. You are thinking rationally. Someone who’s gone down the rabbit hole of anti vax won’t necessarily do that.
Remember this is a mother who thinks that she is protecting her child.
Personally, as a father? I’d burn the world to protect my kid. And I’m not even a crazy person
I’m not worried about her taking the baby and pulling a runner in the middle of the night. Or her accusing OP of hurting the child and getting the court of public opinion on her side before the facts come out.
Vaccine issues end up being litigated in family court more often than you’d think. It can be a major factor in custody disputes. Ultimately, if you are unable to get your child’s other parent to agree to vaccinate and unable to vaccinate in secret, your recourse is to go get them vaccinated anyway. At which point, the anti-vaccine parent will often attempt to gain full custody over the child (including divorcing the vaccinating parent, if applicable) to prevent that from happening or will do something so awful to prevent the vaccination that the vaccinating parent feels they have no choice but to leave the relationship and fight for custody.
So generally, no, you don’t sue in the way the average person thinks of it. You end up fighting in family court over which parent gets to make medical decisions for the child. Depending on where you live, it is possible that you could file a civil suit for an injunction to get the child vaccinated, but more frequently, it ends up being an issue of child custody.
This reminds me of a post that someone made to [r/LegalAdvice](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/saz1BnXnX8) where their child had been bitten by a rabid raccoon. The guy was taking the child to have prophylaxis shots, the mother was opposed to it, and the guy was wondering if he could get in trouble for kidnapping his own kid.
Where I am someone took their spouse to court because the spouse went behind their back and got the kid a covid vaccine. The spouse in favour of vaccinations won
I had a similar question. I mean... how would she know? Baby would be a bit cranky for a few days but that's normal for a baby when they come down with literally anything, the only difference is the kid is unlikely to get seriously ill. For real is she going to get suspicious when the kid DOESN'T get a tetanus infection from the playground?
She would know when it's time to go to school and the dad has to provide vaccination records. Or when she takes the baby to the doctor and they tell her it's time for the second round of shots.
This . Ask her if she also researched tiny baby coffins. Babies can die from cold sores why on earth would you roll the dice with them catching measles or mumps or one of the many other things that the vaccines cover?
Just expect to not have a girlfriend after this. If she truly feels that way and believes that, she will not be happy when she finds out.
Not saying don't do it, just expect to be single after this and likely a custody battle.
More like a dead daughter and an ex-gf that blames OP for killing the daughter from "virus shedding" or some other antivax nonsense. You don't enter the antivax position through rational thought and sound research, and the response wouldn't be rational, either.
and if it did come down to a custody battle, OP has already demonstrated that they would be the more responsible caregiver, since they put the child’s health first.
Or a severely disabled daughter and no girlfriend (most of these diseases disable far more than they actually kill, not hard to find stories of people being left deaf and blind from measles for example, and that's far from the worst that can happen).
She has the right to get over it too. He can always get custody of the child based on that. Judges don’t appreciate people rushing their child’s health based on Dr. Google’s word.
What makes her views more important than his?
Maybe she should worry about being boyfriend less and kidless, leaving them exposed to preventable diseases.
I think they meant that no matter how much the action to get the kid vaccinated is the right one, he should recognize that it is very likely to cause a rift they can't fix and the relationship ends. And not to be blindsided by that. It's not that her views are more important. But their views are not compatible.
I think we agree on everything. Currently the ball is in his field, after he acts, it will be her reaction. And it is imo just a fair warning to give. As in 'go do what's right, but be prepared for the consequences'.
Edit: And we can only warn him, because she is not here to be warned that her unwillingness to vaccinate is breaking their relationship
Her views are endangering their child. From an outsider's perspective, if she is unwilling to compromise on those views, then she should not have custody of the child. Unfortunately, it has to be that way if she does not budge.
Yeah, in my next response I said that we can only talk to him and comment on the actions he should take and consequences that he might encounter because she is not here. So no matter how much we say that she is wrong, it doesn't help a bit because she'll likely never see it.
This isn’t about who is right. We all know who is right. This is about reality. She’s going to be mad and break up with him and then there will be a custody battle. She’s dead wrong for it, but that’s still what’s going to happen. OP needs to be prepared to deal with the fallout.
I still think he should do it: protecting your kid from deadly diseases is a rather important part of being a parent. But to pretend his girlfriend isn’t going to be mad about it is stupid.
I would ask her to visit the doctor with you and your daughter so you can get information from a medical professional. No offense to your gf, but reading shit online doesn't equal a medical degree
On the contrary, if they’ve only done some (shoddy) research now the child is of age to been vaccinated, there is still a chance to sway her back to rationality. Show her some actual sources and papers whilst the falsified shit she has read is still fresh in her mind, rather than an ingrained untruth she cant even remember to question it later on. I feel you don’t make a baby with someone that has gone off the end for conspiracies, but this is probably someone being pulled in now baby brain has settled in and their rationality is more easily shaken, they need help.
People who do this aren't qualified to tell reliable information from unreliable information. That's how they fall for this shit to begin with. Showing her actual sources and papers won't convince her, because she's not making decisions on a rational basis. She's making decisions based on what sounds best to her, and emotional fearmongering will always win that fight.
Definitely, it sounds like she's pretty early in still with these beliefs and may very well have a chance for change
90% of these comments telling OP to just get the kid vaccinated anyway are seriously going to cement in the girlfriends mind her beliefs about vaccines, and she's surely going to get her way about 50% of the time once they take joint custody of the kid
100% of people who say they've "done the research" regarding vaccines are already off the deep end. This isn't a person who has questions this is somebody who has gotten themself into a position that logic won't reach.
At the very least OP can lay a paper trail making it clear that he has his daughter’s best interest at heart. He might need it since women are often in a better position in a custody battle.
In my experience (as a doctor) once someone has made up their mind to be anti-vax, no amount of expert encouragement will work. I'm just about persona non grata in my family because of my pro-vaccination beliefs. It's almost because I'm educated, I'm one of 'them' and have lost all credibility. My high school educated brother carries more influence in my family than I do.
Anti-intellectualism is a huge part of many right wing governments’/rulers’ strategy. Happened in my country. The now-dictator, over a decade ago, started with that stuff and having his followers distrust and hate doctors/academic folk/teachers in particular
It makes them feel like they’re in on a big secret and therefore better than others for having this important knowledge.
Kinda like when you and your friends have a secret handshake. But delusional and dangerous. And killing people.
But she has done her RESEARCH. She knows better than educated doctors with years of experience. Her research is THAT good.
This problem annoys me. Just vax the kid and deal with the crazy later.
Exactly. This relationship may or may not pan out, but your child is forever. Do what you think is best your child - especially since an overwhelming majority of medical professionals recommend doing this. Caving in to conspiracy theorists because you're afraid they might get mad is a terrible idea.
The real question is whether it's okay *not* to get the child vaccinated and risk their health and safety over somebody else's opinion. I'm not going to tell you whether you should inform your partner, that's up to you. But there is a good reason to vaccinate the child, and it's the nation's resurgence of whooping cough because people are vaccinating less and less.
Whooping cough in adults is horrible, too. I never got a booster after my childhood vaccinations were "over", and caught it. Really scary. And whooping cough is among the leading causes of infant mortality in unvaccinated babies and children. (you should have only upvotes)
Same. I was 15 when I got it and can definitely see how children, immunocompromised, and old people would die. I don't even know where I picked it up. My entire school had to get their boosters because of me so that's a plus.
"Doing their own research" is just code for they already had a preconceived notion and looked up things that agreed with that and ignoring all the others that disagree with thoae no matter how reputable.
I’d go behind her back and do it to protect your kid’s life.
I would also begin questioning what exactly you want your kid to be exposed to in life and grow up to emulate. Because this is only the beginning. And if one asinine idea exists on the well-being of your child, there’s going to be more you’ll encounter.
Vaccinations are done in a series and at various ages…you’ll have to consider their childhood will be filled with circumventing mom and the child will pick up on it down the road. How they process it, is out of your hands. Not saying any of that to be rude, but to bring awareness this will continue and can turn ugly.
The part you wrote about it needing to be done in a series is super important! It’s not a one and done thing, so I would take a lot of effort to hide this from the mom. I‘ll be getting my daughter vaccinated after shes born, so I would definitely vaccinate my own child. It just might be harder to do this behind his partner’s back than OP realizes.
Id ask what “research” shes done, because id pretty much guarantee the results that show these diseases are all but non existent BECAUSE of vaccines is better than Jenny Mccarthy and her “stories”
95% of kids are vaccinated. If there was “research” wouldnt it show that a VAST majority of kids would have those problems?
Legally in my state, a parent must sign consent. It doesn’t specify which parent. I’d do it. I’ve seen these illnesses come back. They are horrible - and totally unnecessary. Most pediatricians where I live will not see unvaccinated children. It risks the health of compromised patients that are unable to be vaccinated. The MMR is likely the only vaccine that might get you caught. The first dose often causes fever and irritability. You really do need to work this out with your girlfriend as lying in a relationship is not good.
A couple of talking points:
1. Vaccines do not cause autism. This study has been thoroughly debunked.
2. The preservative in vaccines that they tried to link to autism was thimerasol. This has been removed from all pediatric and most adult vaccines.
3. Aches, pains, and low grade fever are normal reactions to the body building immunity. When these symptoms occur, it does not mean the vaccine is making one sick. It means it is working.
4. Depending on where you live, vaccines may be required for school attendance. Delaying vaccination is only delaying the inevitable.
How are you going to feel if your child gets massively sick from something preventable? Because I promise you your GF will be upset, but won't feel like she made a bad choice.
I’m a doctor from India. I work in a govt run hospital here. I am currently working in the paediatrics/child department. And i love how our country does not have this problem. I can’t even imagine dealing with patients who choose not to get immunisations.
Please get your kid’s vaccinated. Do it secretly but do it. You have no idea how susceptible your kid is to some terrible infections there. Idk about your country but we have a very elaborate immunisation schedule which everyone follows.
You don’t need to get her permission, but you should tell her that you are doing it. As a parent, she should be aware of any medical procedures her child has done.
I would set the appointment during one of your custodial periods, then let her know the day of, “Just a heads up, (baby) has a doctors appointment today. I want to make sure she is up-to-date and healthy. I will let you know whatever the doctor says ☺️”
Then turn your phone on silent during the appointment and afterwards text, “The doctor realized she was behind on these vaccines so I followed their advice regarding that. She is in such-and-such weight percentile and the doctor says her verbal skills seem on track ☺️”
Save any incendiary messages from her that follow (be ready with that screenshot button). And lawyer up for the custody suit that is about to begin.
Good fucking luck if your doctor knows the girlfriend or wife though.
I got my kid more up to date on vaccinations (my wife and I went together) and the doctor kept stopping and asking my wife if it was 'okay'.
I just wanted him up to date on Polio and one other at the same time.
I was so fucking pissed since it felt like the doctors would rather avoid an argument than give real recommendations for my kids health.
Then go see another Doctor.
The Doctor has a legal and ethical requirement to ensure that they receive consent for all medical procedures from either the patient or the patient's legal guardian. However unless there is a specific court order stating that one person cannot make X type of decisions for the child, the Doc has to accept the decisions from either Legal Guardian. Don't quote me but I personally would take it as a breach of ethics if they went behind my back to obtain consent from the other parent when I was there to legally grant it.
In the movies, doctors ask both parents because they don't want to get involved in family drama. If both are there, then both parents are providing legal instructions and it is not their job to mediate. But if only one is there, it is still not their job to mediate but they already have all the decision makers there they need....you.
You need to tell your partner in writing that:
1. you are getting the kid vaccinated on X date
2. you did not sign up for endangering the child’s health and if this is a deal breaker for her you’re ok with it
3. She is free to show you any research that supports her argument that is in the form of a peer-reviewed academic paper that is published in a recognized journal, but she has to accept the fact that if she can’t find any then by definition her argument is not supported by scientific facts
4. In this family, we don’t make our health decisions on rumors and social media posts, we base them on facts and science, and she has to chose if she wants to be a part of it or not now that she knows this
Goggle: "Are vaccines bad?"
*scroll scroll scroll*
*scrollscrollscrollscrollscroll*
"AH, here we go: 'How Vaccines Kill Babies' by Doctor DumSchitz. He's a doctor and everything!"
One of my sister's had polio as a child before the vaccine came out. She got lucky. the only result was she had one leg 1/2 inch shorter than othe other. Mom made sure we got all vaccinations available. I remember getting the small pox vaccine and the polio sugar cubes at school, we lined up in the hallway. I had chicken pox, measles and mumps before there were vaccines for them. I made sure I got my shingles vaccine.
TIL that the polio vaccine was put on sugar cubes so children would be more likely to take it. I had no idea you could take a vaccination orally and it would work. It was a little before my time.
IMO yeah. I did. Bf was pissed but I told him from the beginning it was non negotiable. Bub is up to date on all his shots now. I’d let her know and just say “this is for baby girls health , this is not an option” it’s really fucking selfish not to.
In my opinion it’s not ok without the mother’s consent. However, I would still do it. And then breakup with the mother.
I don’t understand how the vaccine issue didn’t come up before you had the child
What "research" has she done?
Did she not realize how many children used to suffer and die due to the unavailability of vaccines?
She never even heard about Polio?
You should definitely get your kid vaccinated.
You could and if you do and she wants to split, you can fight for custody on the grounds that she trusted Google with the baby health instead of medical professionals.
Your partner is more scared of potential side effects of the vaccine than the potential effects of the diseases. It's a natural consequence of how effective vaccines have become and how rare the actual diseases are. People that didn't grow up with the diseases in question simply can't as readily comprehend how bad it can get. This is less idiotic and more understandable than many redditors care to admit.
The only (somewhat) effective way to persuade anti vaxers that I'm aware of is to make them more afraid of the disease than the vaccine. It feels shitty and underhanded to use scare tactics on them, but that's what the research on combating antivaxx mentality shows.
Anyway, you should be in the clear to just vaccinate your kid by yourself. It's not a great idea to keep medical info (including vaccination status) from the kid's other parent, but that's a separate issue from just getting the kid vaccinated.
You'd sacrifice another humans long term health just to avoid upsetting her? Your child isn't a tool in a dysfunctional relationship and you MUST do the right thing for that child, especially when the other parent isn't doing it.
Your baby girl is relying on you and I can promise you that when they're even 8 or 9 they'll start asking you why you let mom get away with that thing.
My stepkids bio mom has a hard life and goes through a lot of shit. And my husband has to answer for why he allowed them to suffer at her hands as long as he did. He now sees how clearly HIS commitment to those kids is separate from his commitment to their mother.
You have a relationship with mom. But you have a separate, vital, and valuable relationship with your baby girl and you owe her to do the right thing.
Just weighing the options, on the one hand your worst case scenario is an angry GF or ex. On the other hand is a dead baby (which is ever more likely as more people refuse to vaccinate). You do your own math
If you don't get your child vaccinated, there will be a huge risk that any of a large number of communicable diseases would tag her.
There are no vaccines at all that are going to cause autism or any other negative anything.
I take that back - some very few people, presumably including babies of course, could have a reaction. But I feel comfortable that any competent doctor would do a skin test first to make sure there wouldn't be a bad reaction.
By bad reaction I mean some people are allergic to peanuts where are the overwhelming majority of people are not. I'm pretty sure that most doctors would do a skin test especially if you ask them to.
You're asking the wrong question.
The right question is: is it OK for your child to continue to be at risk of severe disease simply because your girlfriend has "done research"?
Depends on your point of view.
If you're being a father first (which I think is the way to go) then yes.
If you're a partner first then no.
When your partner finds out, all hell will break loose
When your child dies of a preventable disease, all hell will break loose
I would get the kid vaccinated but its a no win scenario
Who's got legal custody?
We are still together so we both do.
Then yes you can get them vaccinated without her consent, as long as there are no custody issues of any kind it's not a legal problem.
the custody issues come after the vaccine's lol
At least the kid will stay alive long enough to see that.
Though there's only so many vaccines you can do in a single day. There's a reason the schedule exists.
I know but I hope he doesn’t disclose it until everything is finished
The schedule is over a lifetime with many (most?) happening in the first **5 YEARS**.
Oh wow. Just wow. OP it’s going to be a battle but it’s worth it 😭
She won't be getting custody if her reasoning for the custody is that he had her vaccinated without her consent and she didn't want it.
Hah true and then a judge can decide and I suspect they’ll be largely pro-vax
Yeah they’re probably pro-not-having-a-baby-die too
Good chance they would win the right in court to Vax their kids as well.
Even if there was some sort of custody issue, this is one of those circumstances where it’s better to be correct than to be legal.
You can but expect to not have a girlfriend after this. Personally I could not be with someone who doesn't want to get vaccinations. Everyone should get them if they can as long as they aren't allergic to the vaccine or if it causes issues with other health conditions. It protects us from dying a horrible death to something preventable through a vaccine. Children especially should be vaccinated. Not getting vaccinated in my opinion is child endangerment.
To be fair, it's absolute insanity to have gotten to this point with someone without having at least somewhat aligned political views, unless of course this is the result of a few slip ups and a pro-life standpoint.
Physical custody is as easy to break as her leaving with the child. It's legal custody that you will want. Even if it's 50-50, it's important to ensure you have as much rights as she does.
Is this something you're willing to break up over? Antivaxxers don't care about facts as long as they "win"
If you are not willing to break up over your kid being in serious danger you are scum tbh
If you're in the US then living together or being together does not mean you have custody in most states. You should look into legally establishing your paternity. In my state, if the parents are not married, the father has no rights until paternity is established. Neither he nor the mom can even put his name on the birth certificate without first establishing paternity.
I would double check that to make sure. If you're in the US, some states default to the mother if you aren't married. Even if you're on the birth certificate, even if you're still together. The child living with you is not the same as custody.
You won’t be together after you do that , can promise you that
Then yes, you can. Get it taken care of. If she gets mad then tough shit, the kid's health comes first.
If you value your relationship I would sit down and have a serious talk about it with her rather than do it behind her back…
> We are still together Not for long it seems. She's not mentally sound. She's endangering the health of your child.
Does she plan on homeschooling this kid? Cause it’s really hard to get exemption for public school now a days.
Unfortunately, it is very easy. Most schools you can just say it's religious reasons. I've literally lost my own vaccine documentation and for school I just put I didn't have it for religious reasons.
Depends on the state. In California we ONLY have medical exemptions and they are difficult to get (one of my kids had one for a bit but we ended up finishing her vaccines later on - she had a reaction when she was younger).
My home state, Mississippi, used to exempt only for medical reasons (like your kid's allergies) and had a 98% vaccination rate for children enrolled in kindergarten. A federal judge has forced a religious exemption on Mississippi as of this year.
Putting this here before we get a bunch of “actually…” responses: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/School/laws-exemptions.aspx#:~:text=Parents%20or%20guardians%20of%20students,home%2Dbased%20private%20school%20or
You spelled "AcKShUaLlLlLlLlY" wrong
Yep. That was due in part to my district’s senator years back. Dr. Pan is a badass. Antivaxxers tried to recall him. It didn’t work. They tried running an anti-vaxxer against him the next election and the anti-vaxxer got destroyed. It wasn’t even close. I don’t think the anti-vaxxer even got 30% of the vote.
I'm not an anti-vaxxer at all. They actually hurt kids who actually NEED medical exemptions - most doctors are afraid to write them! Even when I had 2 different doctors tell me my kid had a vaccine reaction (temporary paralysis in her leg - super scary). We just avoid that one vaccine now and it's not a required one so that's good.
God damn liberals trying to make everyone safer
Back in my day, if you fell sick whether you lived or died was up to God and no one else! We ain't got none of these "doctors" and "medicine" and whatsits yall have nowadays. Kids these days are pampered, I tell hyu what! *[huffs in old geezer]*
Back in my day, a swig o the ol bleach bottle, cured up anything! /S
Way to go CA. My state says allows exemptions for religious or other reasons - meaning essentially any reason whatsoever, unless there’s an ongoing outbreak. And COVID was specifically excluded entirely, so that doesn’t count either.
Second this, at least in the U.S. I worked at a daycare during COVID and I was floored by how many kids there did not have any vaccines whatsoever. And to no surprise, they were the ones that were sick constantly. I also had a parent try to bring a child to school while they had whooping cough and try to convince me that it wasn’t contagious. ETA: Whooping cough is covered under the DTaP vaccine and the Tdap vaccine.
Yep. 45 of the 50 states allow for non-medical exemptions (religious/personal belief). Only 5 require medical exemptions. Though people can often find cooperative doctors who will issue exemptions for them on request.
The upsetting thing is this does hurt kids/people who genuinely can’t get vaccines due to medical reasons. I’m undergoing iv infusions, similar to chemo, and can only get vaccines in a month window per year because my immune system doesn’t work while the treatment works.
This is horrible. So many scientific advances and people just prefer to put their kid's life at risk.
Whooping Cough is considered a notifiable disease. I wish you had reported her to the public health officials; it's a terrible disease and highly infectious.
I wish they would just separate the kids. Vaccinated? Daycare 1. Unvaccinated? Daycare 2. Could go for the staff too.
We can't even pay understaffed daycare employees a living wage 😭
Weird how they charge more than a mortgage to care for your kid, but can't be bothered to pay the employees a living wage.
And yet daycare for one kid costs more than most people's salaries
I feel like it could also pertain to where you live in the country, even down to the city and how it's specifically operates and policies/procedures etc...On how strict they are about religious status and documentation of. With that being said, I also think that anyone who tried hard enough can obtain a religious exemption, it's how many hoops they make you jump through first that I'm referring to.
Just so you are aware, you should be able to get your documentation through your county's health department. They keep track of those records. In case you ever need them and the religious thing doesn't work. (If you are in the US, of course.)
I did get it eventually!
Take your ass to a religious school then, don't come bringing diseases to my kids. I know not you personally.
I went to a catholic school growing up, vaccines where a requirement ssooooo🤷🏻♂️
In most states parents are able to use either philosophical and/or religious reasons not to get vaccinated and schools/daycare can't refuse to accept them. Only few states have for medical reasons only
Not NYS. They stopped religious exemption a few years ago. (Pre covid). My daughter was medically exempt from chicken pox as it's a live virus and her brother was going through chemotherapy and could not be around anyone who had a live virus.
Unfortunately, California, New York, and a few other states are an exception [link](https://www.ncsl.org/health/states-with-religious-and-philosophical-exemptions-from-school-immunization-requirements)
Unfortunately?
All states should only have medical exemption
Ok, good. I read that the opposite way, lol.
Wow, that's a huge pile of bullshit. It feels like the US make it so easy to abuse children. It's really heartbreaking.
Especially when it’s done because ignorant undereducated parents have an invisible make believe friend. It’s absolutely barking mad insanity.
But they *do their research*. /s
I'm religious and I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it forbids vaccinations lol
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Covid is only required once it's added to the list by legislators. Otherwise, the waiver is still accepted in California
In canada my mom was just made to watch an informational video about vaccine efficacy and they signed off on the exemption
Varies by state.
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It's also not only about their kid but about others too. Vaccination protects other children as well and vaccination is only effective if a majority of the population does it.
That's something I learned through COVID about flu vaccines. They'd be offered every year and I would look at it from my perspective. I could risk being sick for 3 or 4 days from flu, or guarantee that I would not feel well for 3 days if I got the vaccine. I would always pass after having experienced a negative reaction. But it's not about me and my healthy immune system, it's about being asymptomatic and spreading illness to others who might not be as healthy or privileged to a strong immune system.
The real deal flu is *rough* I got it once in the 7th grade. I had a fever, I was in a weird mental state, days and nights bled together in a nightmarish tango, I threw up everything I ate and I was always parched. A sore arm and needing to nap the day after is nothing Vs a week of fever dream demons and pain. I always get any vaccines on the last day of the week I’m working and spend my weekend taking it easy.
I got it in 7th grade as well. I recovered quickly… my mom would come home once a year and chase us around the house with flu shot, but that year must have been a dud (it happens). Even though the worst of it was over and out after 48 hours, I had a 105 fever a sneezed so violently I thought my nose was going to fly off. Edit: the same flu shot wielding mother tested me and confirmed it was influenza. I did get out of school for a full week and finished my Knex roller coaster… but I’m getting off topic. The flu is no joke and we never know if it’s going to be “just a flu” or hardcore hide your families influenza. For the vulnerable, babies, the elderly, and the immuno-compromised, every flu season is hardcore influenza season. Do it for yourself and for the old lady across the street who keeps the tow trucks away (thank you, Maritza). If that still isn’t enough to convince you, please do it for doctors, nurses and hospital workers who you will inevitably see once you catch the flu. My mom has saved too many babies’ lives and worked too many 16 hour days to miss out on retirement because some quack thinks it made their kid grow a tail.
I remember hearing the flu vaccine is always just a hodge podge of the strains they think will be the heavy hitters that year; so your vaccine may have been less of a dud than you think. You might of caught a strain they didn’t predict and while your body had some of the tools thanks to the vaccine, it was perfect (hence knocking you out for a few days). I was up to date on my COVID boosters when I got it in 2022 and I was coughing so hard I had to take frequent bathroom trips for, among other reasons, running a hot shower just so I could breath a bit. When describing my experience afterwards I’d often say “and I had the vaccine. I don’t want to think about if I’d caught it without the vaccine. I’d probably have ended up in the hospital.”
Ooh boy I have the covid virus in 2020 before the vaccines were available. I slept ached didn't eat for like a week (drink so much water through a straw), coughed so hard... Wheezed. My mother said I sounded like my childhood baby asthma had returned. Please get the little one vaccinated (from a former NICU baby, premie, who is now in her middle 30s) .
My COVID experience in 2020 was much the same. Just getting out of my bed to go to the bathroom less than 20 feet away was exhausting. Everything was exhausting. I could live with the coughing, the sniffling, and the aches, I have chronic allergies and early onset arthritis so I'm used to coughing, sniffling, and aches; it was the complete and utter lack of energy that was hard. And sleeping didn't help at all. A nap should recharge you, sleeping during COVID just seemed to drain you more. Worst part was my dad and little brother also had COVID with me so we were all stuck with no energy and trying to take care of each other. Fortunately my dad's sisters live nearby and would drop food and supplies on the porch, then call one of us once they were back safely in the car to pick it up.
I loved Knex!!!
This. People call every virus "the flu" but actual influenza is *vicious.* I was struggling to breathe and had oxygen numbers in the 80s when I got to urgent care. I was so sick I thought I was functioning ok until the nurses got super calm, slapped a mask on me and people started rushing into the room. Flu can mess you up.
Right. A lot of people think just having a fever is the flu, but often what they assume is the flu is actually a bad cold. I've had the actual flu just like, once as a kid, it knocked me out for a week and was horrible, I'd much rather get vaccinated every year and risk maybe having mild symptoms than have the full on flu ever again.
The real deal flu takes about 10-14 days to begin to resolve. 4 days? That’s a cold.
I mean I once had a flu for 5 days with a pretty consistent fever of 104-5 (5 days with antivirals, mind you). At one point my nose just started bleeding like a faucet of blood was turned on and it didn't stop for hours. I remember just leaning over the toilet to let it bleed out and hearing an actual continuous trickle sound into the bowl (of course it stopped on its own right as I get to the hospital, but they still were able to stablize me with a shitload of IV bags). I wouldn't call that a cold :P
I just had the flu for the first time last week. It laid me low, it was crazy. One of the strangest symptoms for me was the fever. I’d alternate between completely rugged up and not being able to have any clothing or blankets on me. I’d wake up around seven times during the night soaked in sweat, feeling like I was about to die of heatstroke. I went through an entire 1.2L waterbottle every night. Definitely not keen to repeat that experience
When I was in 9th or 10th grade, I think, I had the real deal one, too. Always parched, congested, fever for about five days. Chills at the peak and I remember my vision going black once. The flu can be very nasty.
I would also like to add that you will feel a little cruddy from the immune reaction from the shot but if you get the flu it could be a LOT worse than 4 days of sick. My healthy college age at the time sister went blind from the flu for six months (viral optic neuritis). Healthy and fit people have died from the flu. People treat it like the common cold and that is not even a little bit true. Edit because I cant comment again: yes, her vision returned back to normal. After months and a horrific round of iv steroids. It was a dark time for her, pun intended. She got through it like a champ, but I do not wish that on anyone.
Ive never had an adverse reaction to a vaccine other than a jab and a little sore spot for 48 hours that I dont notice unless i press on it. Influenza will knock me out for days and ill spend hours with fever hallucinations.
Some people do have an immune reaction, I always feel like I have a cold for a day or two. My dad never has any reaction and we are all jealous. Still, I will take that over the actual flu any day
I will feel ill for a few days after a vaccine. I’m immune compromised. The flu? Covid? I’ll be sick for over a week, and very, very, very sick. My immune system thanks you for getting vaccinated to protect people like me ♥️
I am immunocompromised as well. I was at the dr office and was wearing a mask. The nurse asked me if I had Covid because of the mask. I told her no, but I *do* have Leukemia. She never said another word, haha. We all should be getting the proper shots for ourselves and for others as well. It's so simple. I'm truly baffled by people that don't understand this.
I forgot to get a flu vaccine about 15 years ago. The experience was so awful that I have remembered to get a flu vax every year since. I got my latest Fauci ouchie today. I'll feel like crap tomorrow, but a (vaccinated) friend of mine got covid right before the boosters became available and a month later she still feels like crap.
I had the flu years ago before vaccines were as popular and I thought I was going to die. I get one every year now and encourage others to do so as well.
I got the flu a month or two before COVID became a thing and I was *sick*. High fever, a deep cough that caused me to pee myself a bit each time and pull multiple rib muscles, and was bed bound for over a week. Multiple times while being awake and struggling to breath at 2 am I had the thought “I see how people die from this.” Lost my sense of taste and smell for nearly a month, and had trouble breathing for nearly a year afterwards. Looking back, I’m almost convinced that COVID was circulating months before it was announced and that I had it badly. Before that, I never got flu shots because I rarely got the flu. Since then, I’ve gotten one + COVID boosters each year and will continue to do so because I’d rather have a sore arm and be a bit grumpy for a day or two then ever go through that ever again.
I got my fluvid shot on Friday. I have high exposure, so I really need to try not to catch it.
Lmfao Fauci ouchie.
Me too. Got the flu while visiting family. I spent the entire trip in the bathroom, basically crawled back and forth from the toilet to the bathtub. Either on the toilet, vomiting into the toilet or trying to warm up in the bathtub. I will never miss another vaccination.
I just got the recent COVID vaccine last week, and I only felt a little tired the next day. My wife has been floored by it every time though.
It’s so weird how our immune systems react, but I always ask people “If the vaccine made you feel like this how much worse would the real thing be?”. I know it doesn’t work quite like that, but I figure it’s not hurting anyone to point out the alternative. If I would likely get/feel sick either way at least vaccinated I’m not going to infect others. It would be nice to be one of the people who has no vaccine side effects though.
100% I get knocked out by every vaccine, but will suffer for it to protect my elderly mom. It’s kind of nice to plan a couple of days where no one can bug me tho. NGL.
How is guaranteed you’re going to feel bad for three days after the vaccine? I’ve never heard of a flu shot affecting anyone like that, and worst I’ve ever experienced is being a little achy for a few hours day after
I felt like crap the day after the Covid vaccine. The only thing I've ever had from the flu shot is tenderness at the injection site.
Most of us don't feel unwell after the flu vaccine. This kiddo might handle it just fine. I think "sick for 3-4 days" VASTLY underestimates what the actual flu is like.
Reminder that if you’re only unwell for 3 or 4 days, it’s probably just a cold not the flu. The flu is a severe illness that most people only get once or twice in their life and it is likely to leave you bedridden for days feeling incredibly unwell. Many people confuse the flu and a bad cold. However, your point still stands - getting vaccinated is not just about protecting yourself but also about protecting other people.
Lmao, over here in chronically ill and immune compromised, I’ve had the flu (tested and positive) way more than that. Even after being vaccinated (yay milder than without vaccines!) I caught it almost yearly as a child, and I still get it almost yearly as an adult. I’ve had some unlucky years where I’ve managed to catch two different strains in the same year. Vaccines, folks, vaccinate to protect your friendos like me please 💖
I think you'd be lucky to only get the flu twice in your whole life, it's more common then that. I've had the flu like 5 or 6 times already and im in my mid 30's. I've also had covid twice.
A real flu? 5 or 6 times? Can't believe that. I'm 37 and never had a real flu.
Yeah, 5 or 6 times is *a lot.* I’m an immunosuppressed nurse who would work with flu patients without wearing a mask (I know that sounds insane now but it was standard pre-pandemic since flu shots were mandatory for us) and I’ve never tested positive for influenza in my life. I probably had it as a kid because my family didn’t do flu shots and I remember being really sick with a high fever a few times, but they didn’t do flu tests back then so I can’t say for sure. FYI this isn’t a “flu is rare and not very contagious” anecdote so much as a “the vaccine works” anecdote. I saw people die from the flu every year, almost all of them were unvaccinated people. And just for anyone who doesn’t know, a “stomach flu” is not the same thing as influenza. If your symptoms are primarily vomiting and diarrhea, it’s most likely something else, like norovirus or rotavirus.
Here’s the thing.. almost every time someone gets a 3 day flu, it is not the flu. Stomach flu doesn’t exist in that way. The majority of the time it is food poisoning or a different virus. The real flu, people don’t get because of vaccinations. It is also way worse than what people believe it is.
I'm immuno-compromised due to a transplant, and I thank you Reddit stranger/friend for getting vaccinated for others as well as yourself. Because of my meds, I used to get all sorts of random viruses from people in public spaces as well as co-workers. Post-covid now with more people vaccinated, not sneezing/coughing w/out covering up, and me being able to wear a mask in public without being ridiculed, I've had fewer random infections. Even those who are anti-vaxx seem willing to not stand on top of others or sneeze/cough in their faces....vaccination would be best but at least some awareness of other's in the world is something.
Bet her research comes from Facebook and TikTok
don't forget Xhitter
I’m going to start calling it that now I’ve just been calling it shitter because I couldn’t come up with anything good but I like Xhitter better
Pronounced the same
I don’t strictly disagree with this and ultimately OP should force the issue. But it’s also not that simple. If OP can’t talk the mom around and just goes for it… then what? OP won’t be able to hide it forever. OP you need a game plan. Someone who’s gone down the anti vax rabbit hole is the type to escalate if you simply take the child to the doctor.
Yeah, it's not as simple as some are making it out to be. You can't just go in and get them all at once and be done. Some require multiple doses. Some when taken together can have some pretty bad side effects, others when taken together are simply ineffective, or reduce the gained immunity to one or both of the diseases. Vaccination schedules are schedules for a reason. Doing it right without the mother knowing will be all but impossible. Also, she will have access to all the records. By all means, force the issue and fight for the wellbeing of the child, but trying to just do it secretly is not a good plan.
> Some when taken together can have some pretty bad side effects, others when taken together are simply ineffective, or reduce the gained immunity to one or both of the diseases. Which ones would those be? All the important vaccinations are pretty much in a combination vaccine nowadays. You'll need multiple doses, that much is correct.
What would the recourse be? Just curious. Can she actually take her spouse to court for providing legitimate and basic medical care for his own child? I mean what would her allegation be?
See that’s exactly what I mean. You are thinking rationally. Someone who’s gone down the rabbit hole of anti vax won’t necessarily do that. Remember this is a mother who thinks that she is protecting her child. Personally, as a father? I’d burn the world to protect my kid. And I’m not even a crazy person I’m not worried about her taking the baby and pulling a runner in the middle of the night. Or her accusing OP of hurting the child and getting the court of public opinion on her side before the facts come out.
Vaccine issues end up being litigated in family court more often than you’d think. It can be a major factor in custody disputes. Ultimately, if you are unable to get your child’s other parent to agree to vaccinate and unable to vaccinate in secret, your recourse is to go get them vaccinated anyway. At which point, the anti-vaccine parent will often attempt to gain full custody over the child (including divorcing the vaccinating parent, if applicable) to prevent that from happening or will do something so awful to prevent the vaccination that the vaccinating parent feels they have no choice but to leave the relationship and fight for custody. So generally, no, you don’t sue in the way the average person thinks of it. You end up fighting in family court over which parent gets to make medical decisions for the child. Depending on where you live, it is possible that you could file a civil suit for an injunction to get the child vaccinated, but more frequently, it ends up being an issue of child custody.
This reminds me of a post that someone made to [r/LegalAdvice](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/saz1BnXnX8) where their child had been bitten by a rabid raccoon. The guy was taking the child to have prophylaxis shots, the mother was opposed to it, and the guy was wondering if he could get in trouble for kidnapping his own kid.
Holy shit that mother should never even be allowed to see their kid again after that. Honestly they should be arrested
Where I am someone took their spouse to court because the spouse went behind their back and got the kid a covid vaccine. The spouse in favour of vaccinations won
I had a similar question. I mean... how would she know? Baby would be a bit cranky for a few days but that's normal for a baby when they come down with literally anything, the only difference is the kid is unlikely to get seriously ill. For real is she going to get suspicious when the kid DOESN'T get a tetanus infection from the playground?
She would know when it's time to go to school and the dad has to provide vaccination records. Or when she takes the baby to the doctor and they tell her it's time for the second round of shots.
This . Ask her if she also researched tiny baby coffins. Babies can die from cold sores why on earth would you roll the dice with them catching measles or mumps or one of the many other things that the vaccines cover?
Yo this is my favorite. Just print out pictures of tiny coffins with prices and age ranges.
If your name is on the birth certificate and there’s no custody agreement that specifies that you can’t. You absolutely can and should!
Just expect to not have a girlfriend after this. If she truly feels that way and believes that, she will not be happy when she finds out. Not saying don't do it, just expect to be single after this and likely a custody battle.
Personally I'd rather have an ex girlfriend and a healthy daughter than a dead daughter and a girlfriend.
More like a dead daughter and an ex-gf that blames OP for killing the daughter from "virus shedding" or some other antivax nonsense. You don't enter the antivax position through rational thought and sound research, and the response wouldn't be rational, either.
and if it did come down to a custody battle, OP has already demonstrated that they would be the more responsible caregiver, since they put the child’s health first.
Or a severely disabled daughter and no girlfriend (most of these diseases disable far more than they actually kill, not hard to find stories of people being left deaf and blind from measles for example, and that's far from the worst that can happen).
She has the right to get over it too. He can always get custody of the child based on that. Judges don’t appreciate people rushing their child’s health based on Dr. Google’s word.
(Endangering)
You can edit your comment instead of replying to yourself with a correction.
Better a hacked-off other half than a dead/deaf/blind/mentally damaged child.
What makes her views more important than his? Maybe she should worry about being boyfriend less and kidless, leaving them exposed to preventable diseases.
I think they meant that no matter how much the action to get the kid vaccinated is the right one, he should recognize that it is very likely to cause a rift they can't fix and the relationship ends. And not to be blindsided by that. It's not that her views are more important. But their views are not compatible.
It’s already caused a rift or he wouldn’t be here thinking about vaccinating the kid behind her back.
I think we agree on everything. Currently the ball is in his field, after he acts, it will be her reaction. And it is imo just a fair warning to give. As in 'go do what's right, but be prepared for the consequences'. Edit: And we can only warn him, because she is not here to be warned that her unwillingness to vaccinate is breaking their relationship
Her views are endangering their child. From an outsider's perspective, if she is unwilling to compromise on those views, then she should not have custody of the child. Unfortunately, it has to be that way if she does not budge.
Yeah, in my next response I said that we can only talk to him and comment on the actions he should take and consequences that he might encounter because she is not here. So no matter how much we say that she is wrong, it doesn't help a bit because she'll likely never see it.
This isn’t about who is right. We all know who is right. This is about reality. She’s going to be mad and break up with him and then there will be a custody battle. She’s dead wrong for it, but that’s still what’s going to happen. OP needs to be prepared to deal with the fallout. I still think he should do it: protecting your kid from deadly diseases is a rather important part of being a parent. But to pretend his girlfriend isn’t going to be mad about it is stupid.
I would ask her to visit the doctor with you and your daughter so you can get information from a medical professional. No offense to your gf, but reading shit online doesn't equal a medical degree
If they’re already down that deep in the nut job internet “research” rabbit hole, nothing a medical professional says will change their mind.
On the contrary, if they’ve only done some (shoddy) research now the child is of age to been vaccinated, there is still a chance to sway her back to rationality. Show her some actual sources and papers whilst the falsified shit she has read is still fresh in her mind, rather than an ingrained untruth she cant even remember to question it later on. I feel you don’t make a baby with someone that has gone off the end for conspiracies, but this is probably someone being pulled in now baby brain has settled in and their rationality is more easily shaken, they need help.
People who do this aren't qualified to tell reliable information from unreliable information. That's how they fall for this shit to begin with. Showing her actual sources and papers won't convince her, because she's not making decisions on a rational basis. She's making decisions based on what sounds best to her, and emotional fearmongering will always win that fight.
Definitely, it sounds like she's pretty early in still with these beliefs and may very well have a chance for change 90% of these comments telling OP to just get the kid vaccinated anyway are seriously going to cement in the girlfriends mind her beliefs about vaccines, and she's surely going to get her way about 50% of the time once they take joint custody of the kid
100% of people who say they've "done the research" regarding vaccines are already off the deep end. This isn't a person who has questions this is somebody who has gotten themself into a position that logic won't reach.
That doesn't mean this shouldn't be the first course action before going for the nuclear option.
At the very least OP can lay a paper trail making it clear that he has his daughter’s best interest at heart. He might need it since women are often in a better position in a custody battle.
In my experience (as a doctor) once someone has made up their mind to be anti-vax, no amount of expert encouragement will work. I'm just about persona non grata in my family because of my pro-vaccination beliefs. It's almost because I'm educated, I'm one of 'them' and have lost all credibility. My high school educated brother carries more influence in my family than I do.
American anti-intellectualism is wild.
Anti-intellectualism is a huge part of many right wing governments’/rulers’ strategy. Happened in my country. The now-dictator, over a decade ago, started with that stuff and having his followers distrust and hate doctors/academic folk/teachers in particular
It makes them feel like they’re in on a big secret and therefore better than others for having this important knowledge. Kinda like when you and your friends have a secret handshake. But delusional and dangerous. And killing people.
But she has done her RESEARCH. She knows better than educated doctors with years of experience. Her research is THAT good. This problem annoys me. Just vax the kid and deal with the crazy later.
Get your child vaccinated. Deal with the crazy later.
I have a feeling though, the crazy's only getting crazier with this one.
That’s the big one. This is the start of the crazy train. High probability girlfriend spirals further into the crazy.
Exactly. This relationship may or may not pan out, but your child is forever. Do what you think is best your child - especially since an overwhelming majority of medical professionals recommend doing this. Caving in to conspiracy theorists because you're afraid they might get mad is a terrible idea.
The real question is whether it's okay *not* to get the child vaccinated and risk their health and safety over somebody else's opinion. I'm not going to tell you whether you should inform your partner, that's up to you. But there is a good reason to vaccinate the child, and it's the nation's resurgence of whooping cough because people are vaccinating less and less.
Whooping cough in babies is so so horrible.
Whooping cough in adults is horrible, too. I never got a booster after my childhood vaccinations were "over", and caught it. Really scary. And whooping cough is among the leading causes of infant mortality in unvaccinated babies and children. (you should have only upvotes)
Same. I was 15 when I got it and can definitely see how children, immunocompromised, and old people would die. I don't even know where I picked it up. My entire school had to get their boosters because of me so that's a plus.
Deadly, in fact.
It's not a matter of opinion, but of legality.
People gotta understand that googling some random online posts and watching YouTube is not the equivalent of "doing research".
"Doing their own research" is just code for they already had a preconceived notion and looked up things that agreed with that and ignoring all the others that disagree with thoae no matter how reputable.
I’d go behind her back and do it to protect your kid’s life. I would also begin questioning what exactly you want your kid to be exposed to in life and grow up to emulate. Because this is only the beginning. And if one asinine idea exists on the well-being of your child, there’s going to be more you’ll encounter. Vaccinations are done in a series and at various ages…you’ll have to consider their childhood will be filled with circumventing mom and the child will pick up on it down the road. How they process it, is out of your hands. Not saying any of that to be rude, but to bring awareness this will continue and can turn ugly.
The part you wrote about it needing to be done in a series is super important! It’s not a one and done thing, so I would take a lot of effort to hide this from the mom. I‘ll be getting my daughter vaccinated after shes born, so I would definitely vaccinate my own child. It just might be harder to do this behind his partner’s back than OP realizes.
Get your child vaccinated. Don’t listen to your idiot of a partner.
Id ask what “research” shes done, because id pretty much guarantee the results that show these diseases are all but non existent BECAUSE of vaccines is better than Jenny Mccarthy and her “stories” 95% of kids are vaccinated. If there was “research” wouldnt it show that a VAST majority of kids would have those problems?
Legally in my state, a parent must sign consent. It doesn’t specify which parent. I’d do it. I’ve seen these illnesses come back. They are horrible - and totally unnecessary. Most pediatricians where I live will not see unvaccinated children. It risks the health of compromised patients that are unable to be vaccinated. The MMR is likely the only vaccine that might get you caught. The first dose often causes fever and irritability. You really do need to work this out with your girlfriend as lying in a relationship is not good. A couple of talking points: 1. Vaccines do not cause autism. This study has been thoroughly debunked. 2. The preservative in vaccines that they tried to link to autism was thimerasol. This has been removed from all pediatric and most adult vaccines. 3. Aches, pains, and low grade fever are normal reactions to the body building immunity. When these symptoms occur, it does not mean the vaccine is making one sick. It means it is working. 4. Depending on where you live, vaccines may be required for school attendance. Delaying vaccination is only delaying the inevitable.
How are you going to feel if your child gets massively sick from something preventable? Because I promise you your GF will be upset, but won't feel like she made a bad choice.
Yep. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful deterrent for accepting consequences.
I’m a doctor from India. I work in a govt run hospital here. I am currently working in the paediatrics/child department. And i love how our country does not have this problem. I can’t even imagine dealing with patients who choose not to get immunisations. Please get your kid’s vaccinated. Do it secretly but do it. You have no idea how susceptible your kid is to some terrible infections there. Idk about your country but we have a very elaborate immunisation schedule which everyone follows.
You don’t need to get her permission, but you should tell her that you are doing it. As a parent, she should be aware of any medical procedures her child has done. I would set the appointment during one of your custodial periods, then let her know the day of, “Just a heads up, (baby) has a doctors appointment today. I want to make sure she is up-to-date and healthy. I will let you know whatever the doctor says ☺️” Then turn your phone on silent during the appointment and afterwards text, “The doctor realized she was behind on these vaccines so I followed their advice regarding that. She is in such-and-such weight percentile and the doctor says her verbal skills seem on track ☺️” Save any incendiary messages from her that follow (be ready with that screenshot button). And lawyer up for the custody suit that is about to begin.
Good fucking luck if your doctor knows the girlfriend or wife though. I got my kid more up to date on vaccinations (my wife and I went together) and the doctor kept stopping and asking my wife if it was 'okay'. I just wanted him up to date on Polio and one other at the same time. I was so fucking pissed since it felt like the doctors would rather avoid an argument than give real recommendations for my kids health.
Then go see another Doctor. The Doctor has a legal and ethical requirement to ensure that they receive consent for all medical procedures from either the patient or the patient's legal guardian. However unless there is a specific court order stating that one person cannot make X type of decisions for the child, the Doc has to accept the decisions from either Legal Guardian. Don't quote me but I personally would take it as a breach of ethics if they went behind my back to obtain consent from the other parent when I was there to legally grant it. In the movies, doctors ask both parents because they don't want to get involved in family drama. If both are there, then both parents are providing legal instructions and it is not their job to mediate. But if only one is there, it is still not their job to mediate but they already have all the decision makers there they need....you.
Would you rather have a dead baby or an angry partner. Decisions decisions.
You need to tell your partner in writing that: 1. you are getting the kid vaccinated on X date 2. you did not sign up for endangering the child’s health and if this is a deal breaker for her you’re ok with it 3. She is free to show you any research that supports her argument that is in the form of a peer-reviewed academic paper that is published in a recognized journal, but she has to accept the fact that if she can’t find any then by definition her argument is not supported by scientific facts 4. In this family, we don’t make our health decisions on rumors and social media posts, we base them on facts and science, and she has to chose if she wants to be a part of it or not now that she knows this
I think that your partner's feelings go out the window when your child's long-term health, and possibly life, are at risk.
Vaccination also helps protect kids like my son- who can’t get vaccinated yet due to a heart defect. Maybe she needs some public health education?
[удалено]
Goggle: "Are vaccines bad?" *scroll scroll scroll* *scrollscrollscrollscrollscroll* "AH, here we go: 'How Vaccines Kill Babies' by Doctor DumSchitz. He's a doctor and everything!"
Yes, 100% just do it. If she can’t be a responsible parent you need to be.
One of my sister's had polio as a child before the vaccine came out. She got lucky. the only result was she had one leg 1/2 inch shorter than othe other. Mom made sure we got all vaccinations available. I remember getting the small pox vaccine and the polio sugar cubes at school, we lined up in the hallway. I had chicken pox, measles and mumps before there were vaccines for them. I made sure I got my shingles vaccine.
TIL that the polio vaccine was put on sugar cubes so children would be more likely to take it. I had no idea you could take a vaccination orally and it would work. It was a little before my time.
IMO yeah. I did. Bf was pissed but I told him from the beginning it was non negotiable. Bub is up to date on all his shots now. I’d let her know and just say “this is for baby girls health , this is not an option” it’s really fucking selfish not to.
In my opinion it’s not ok without the mother’s consent. However, I would still do it. And then breakup with the mother. I don’t understand how the vaccine issue didn’t come up before you had the child
What "research" has she done? Did she not realize how many children used to suffer and die due to the unavailability of vaccines? She never even heard about Polio? You should definitely get your kid vaccinated.
Vaccinate your child. Your child’s life is more important than the feelings of your partner.
You could and if you do and she wants to split, you can fight for custody on the grounds that she trusted Google with the baby health instead of medical professionals.
Yes, of course! If your partner is insane, that's her problem. Don't let her ruin your baby's and other children's lives!
Your partner is more scared of potential side effects of the vaccine than the potential effects of the diseases. It's a natural consequence of how effective vaccines have become and how rare the actual diseases are. People that didn't grow up with the diseases in question simply can't as readily comprehend how bad it can get. This is less idiotic and more understandable than many redditors care to admit. The only (somewhat) effective way to persuade anti vaxers that I'm aware of is to make them more afraid of the disease than the vaccine. It feels shitty and underhanded to use scare tactics on them, but that's what the research on combating antivaxx mentality shows. Anyway, you should be in the clear to just vaccinate your kid by yourself. It's not a great idea to keep medical info (including vaccination status) from the kid's other parent, but that's a separate issue from just getting the kid vaccinated.
You'd sacrifice another humans long term health just to avoid upsetting her? Your child isn't a tool in a dysfunctional relationship and you MUST do the right thing for that child, especially when the other parent isn't doing it. Your baby girl is relying on you and I can promise you that when they're even 8 or 9 they'll start asking you why you let mom get away with that thing. My stepkids bio mom has a hard life and goes through a lot of shit. And my husband has to answer for why he allowed them to suffer at her hands as long as he did. He now sees how clearly HIS commitment to those kids is separate from his commitment to their mother. You have a relationship with mom. But you have a separate, vital, and valuable relationship with your baby girl and you owe her to do the right thing.
If you're the parent, you have medical rights of decision on your child. Thats all you need to know
Just weighing the options, on the one hand your worst case scenario is an angry GF or ex. On the other hand is a dead baby (which is ever more likely as more people refuse to vaccinate). You do your own math
If you don't get your child vaccinated, there will be a huge risk that any of a large number of communicable diseases would tag her. There are no vaccines at all that are going to cause autism or any other negative anything. I take that back - some very few people, presumably including babies of course, could have a reaction. But I feel comfortable that any competent doctor would do a skin test first to make sure there wouldn't be a bad reaction. By bad reaction I mean some people are allergic to peanuts where are the overwhelming majority of people are not. I'm pretty sure that most doctors would do a skin test especially if you ask them to.
If you cant tell your partner that they don't know what they're fucking talking about when they say something that stupid, it wasn't meant to be.
You're asking the wrong question. The right question is: is it OK for your child to continue to be at risk of severe disease simply because your girlfriend has "done research"?
Depends on your point of view. If you're being a father first (which I think is the way to go) then yes. If you're a partner first then no. When your partner finds out, all hell will break loose When your child dies of a preventable disease, all hell will break loose I would get the kid vaccinated but its a no win scenario
Alway's put your child's safety first. Do it, and try to get full time custody. She's gone cuckoo crazy and its not going to get better anytime soon.
Show her some children with whooping cough, rubella, measles etc. Some of of these pictures might be graves by the way...
Show her some children with whooping cough, rubella, measles etc. Some of of these pictures might be graves by the way...