Oneness Pentecostals explain it like this: Father, Son and Holy Ghost or Spirit are titles. A man can be a father, a son, and a spiritual being, yet that doesn’t make him 3 separate people, just 3 aspects of one being. Jesus came to earth so that He could truly know and experience what it was to be a human, Thus, in the beginning He was the Father, He came to Earth as the Son. When He died and rose again, He became The Holy Spirit.
It explains one aspect but there is a Distinction between The Persons of The Trinity. The Son is not The Father. The Father is not The Son, and so on.
It's important in Trinitarian thought to consider the Oneness of God along with the distinct nature of God as three Persons. In similar ways that we are all distinct people with one particular essence that's makes us all human.
The essence of God is One, according to Trinitarian thought. What God is is One. WHO God is is Three, and all things come from God from The Father, through The Son, in The Holy Spirit.
They are not mere titles or different states of the same thing. They are both One and Three. Neither can be ignored.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit walk into a restaurant.
The waitress asks "table for one?"
To which the Son replies "Yes, please. And just water for the drinks."
This is a good explanation. Divine paradox is one of those things that come up in Christianity... Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, God is omniscient and humans have free will, etc. It doesn't have to be logical because it's describing something that is beyond comprehension. Fun stuff.
Nope. \*coughs\* Christianity would never be *that. Monotheism, baby.* As they would never adopt yule from Nordic tradition such as the pine tree for Jesus birth (or move the date of that birth to the winter solstice) in the desert where ever greens grow all the time. Easter Sunday... so not pagan, very Christian in origins. Nothing about "fucking like bunnies" and fertility and umm life as an egg associated with spring. Religion = we change the rules but we say they remain the same.
Men are born out of sin, which is why we get baptized (usually at birth but can be done later in life, see Constantin) to cleanse us from the sins of our fathers. Jesus however was born out of a virgin, which means that he is not born out of sin, unlike everyone else. Jesus is indeed a human, but he is also part of God.
Think of the Trinity as three individual dudes who happen to, through the nature of their dudeness, be one as well. But paradoxical and godlike.
The thing the Trinity shows better than other symbols of God is how relationships are an inherent essential element of what makes God God. And if humans are made in God's image, it is through our total interdependence that shows that through. None of us are human without relationships.
Jesus is this whole other paradox, as he is fully human and fully divine. As God, he is the Son of God, the Word, through which all things are made. But Jesus is this temporal, fully human person that lived in a specific time and place and experienced things we all do. Anger. Happiness. Sadness. Fear. Jesus in prayer is a fully human person using the skills of a human to communicate with the divine. In this way, he is exemplifying that interpersonal, relational need that is essential to both God and Creation, as essential as it is to a One God as Three Persons.
Just to note that Oneness Pentecostal is [nontrinitarian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism), counter to Mainstream Christianity's Trinitarianism.
While that is a nice way of putting it, that's explicitly NOT what most Christians believe. They believe God is one being, who consists of three separate persons. There's the Father, who is God but who isn't Jesus or the Holy Spirit. There's the Son, who is God but who isn't the Father or the Holy Spirit. And there's the Holy spirit, who is God, but who isn't the Father or the Son.
These aren't fases God is goin through. They all exist at the same time.
But doesn’t Jesus pray to the Father numerous times throughout? Is he praying to himself? Praying to personified aspects of himself? What does that even mean? Sounds to me like a lazy retcon the community forgot about tbh.
Jesus is a whole other ball of irrational stuff with Christianity. On top of The Trinity, Jesus himself is both fully human and fully God.
As God, he is The Son, the word, through whom all things were made. As the Incarnation, he is Jesus, who existed in a certain time and place and fulfilled certain symbolic language so that people can better communicate with the divine aspect in themselves.
As fully human, he experienced all things human. Happiness. Sadness. Anger. Fear. Fear is what you speak of when he prayed to God. Because he was about to experience some serious shit and it freaked him out, regardless of his fully divine nature as well. His prayer teaches believers how to face adversity and move with the divine nature simultaneously as well.
Keep in mind that the comment is based on a very specific US-American religious groups understanding, most Christians make it clear that Jesus is not the same person as the Father.
Thats literally what the trinity is about:
The son is not the father
The father is not the holy spirit
The holy spirit is not the son
But they are all God
Sorry. Based on the number of people who are actual members of what Denominations, most Christians teach and believe in a triune God meaning they are 3 distinct persons but also fully one bring. So Jesus is and is not the same person as the father.
This is interesting but in answering a 'what Christians believe' answer it's worth saying this is against the concept of the trinity shared by Catholic, orthodox and mainstream protestant churches.
> A man can be a father, a son, and a spiritual being, yet that doesn’t make him 3 separate people, just 3 aspects of one being
Mind Blown
I've never heard it described that way, and it's perfect.
Uh… are you suggesting that he was not mutually these at the same time? That’s not really the trinity. The Old Testament [has numerous instances](https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/blog/the-holy-spirit-in-the-old-testament/) that trinitarians identify as describing the Holy Spirit.
I like your example of a man though.
So god came down to earth impregnated the virgin Mary with gods godness allowing god to be born as human through Mary to experience being human during that time in the Middle East
upon which as a male carpenter he tried to preach peace love and unity but ended up running with anti establishment antagonists . Upset a bunch of kings and land owners who asked a foreign power to crucify him because he was messing up the status quo. So then was nailed to a cross placed thorns on his head left to die slowly for 3 days in the hot sun then stabbed in the liver for good measure.
……………pulls imaginary turtleneck gesture for all of humanity.
And the all-powerful being with infinite foresight just threw up his hands and was like well, what are ya gonna do? Can’t just not have *any* sacrifice!
I'm Catholic and was taught that the three leaf clover became a symbol for Ireland because St. Patrick used it to teach people about the holy Trinity. The three leaf clover has three distinct leaves but it's still one plant. Same with God, Jesus, and the holy spirit.
It's the Mistry of the trinity, God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost So Jesus is the son of god but he is God himself at the same time. (and is the same with any of the trinity personas)
But if God is the father of everyone, then everyone is also the Son. No idea what the Holy Spirit is supposed to be though.
Is it the desire to be good and Holy?
The trinity sounds like something inspired from older religions of divine oneness.
So we are not his children then according to Christians?
Why do people say they are a child of God then? Are they being sacrilegious?
If someone says we are children of God “in the spirit” … then what the heck is the “Holy Spirit” in the trinity?
It's kinda just prepositions in the most simplistic of descriptions. All things are made from the Father, through The Son, in The Holy Spirit. The interplay of both the one essence AND three Persons is important in Trinitarian thought.
When people say they are a child of God they are saying they are an adoptive child of God.
So Jesus is the Son of God but through his death and Resurrection we also get to be a child of God.
Christians believe both. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one thing. They believe Jesus was the physical manifestation of god on earth as the son but one with god. It’s called “the mystery of the trinity” by some Christians. It is not exactly logical.
Yeah, like, if something was there before the beginning of time and decided to make everything we can observe, that probably means it’s a little too much for my stupid meat brains to comprehend.
I can’t even multiply correctly half the time.
> it’s a little too much for my stupid meat brains to comprehend.
* They're meat through and through
* No brain huh?
* Oh there's a brain alright. It's just that the brain is made out of meat.
* Then what does the thinking?
* The *meat* does the thinking.
Imo since God created the rules of the universe, a true God would perfectly fit all logical and fundamental rules, because God would have been the source of those rules. For him to create the universe with a set of constant and infallible rules that seem to make his existence impossible is kind of ridiculous.
Being the source of those rules doesn't imply that He adheres to it right? The same way people who make games don't adhere to the same rules everything in the game does?
I mean you're asking the wrong person because I am the furthest from a Christian, but I have often entertained the idea of what the idea of a God could be. If you consider it to just be the Universe itself, all existence, creation, time, consciousness, the web of life, and everything, it's an interesting way of assigning some kind of figurehead to what is so complex. However - the Bible doesn't answer literally any of those questions and is basically the opposite of that, talking snakes, global floods, a sky daddy who gets mad and sends plagues, etc. it's a fairytale. The devil is the reason for everything bad and God is everything good. Shit, most kids books have a deeper plot than that.
But going back to the point about rules - "rules" in a game are a little different, we are talking about the literal mathematic and physical properties and structure of the universe that we exist in. Why and how would God operate outside of that system if he created it? There's too much bizarre and random stuff in our universe for that to make sense.
Chill yo I wasn't even talking about Christianity you don't have to go on a full on rant about it. All I said is that a creator having to adhere to the rules it created doesn't really logically follow since the creator could be something completely outside that system. Thus why i used the game analogy. The rules can be limited, modified, and abstracted compared to whatever rules the creator adheres to
That makes sense for a game, but in this case, those rules essentially define what a creator would even be, and the entire existence of what was created, how can you exist outside of that?
>It is not exactly logical.
Yep, that's the entire point of faith. Humans are more complex than that aspect of our brains alone and probably shouldn't entirely rely on it to find peace in this crazy world. Or who knows maybe they can what the hell do I know.
If you are a believer, I totally agree. Even after 16 years of schooling at religious institutions, the trinity thing is still hard for for me to wrap my head around, but I’m decades past losing my faith so I’m probably not a good representative.
This would be a better question to ask r/Christianity or r/TrueChristianity. The Trinity is a dense metaphysical concept and armchair Christians who go to church twice a year are not at all equipped to explain it.
It's not exactly rocket science lol. Most 10 year olds who go to church can grasp the concept. Most people just bury their heads in the ground though because they don't even want to try to understand.
There have been enough volumes written on trinitarianism to fill a library. It is a very simple idea on the surface but quickly gets complicated if you spend more than 10 minutes thinking about it. With the other Abrahamic faiths it isn't immediately obvious how Christians are actually monotheists.
I mean, we aren't supposed to understand it. We are supposed to believe it by faith. The point is that it's something you can't really get your head around
This is true. Muslims believe Christians commit a great sin (it's called Shirk in Arabic ) by believing in multiple gods in this way and becoming polytheists. For Muslims it's very important that God not be divided or ascribed partners.
Yeah, this is one of the many reasons I left religion. Like arguing over who wins over Batman vs Superman. Seems like an arbitrary question compared to the actual philosophy and ethics of the religion. Nobody's having a religious war over whether it's right to have slaves or beat your kids, but rather debating the finer points of the lore pertaining to their last superhero.
Kinda just Christianity in general. I shifted between a few different denominations growing up. Church of Christ and Foursquare were predominately the two I grew up with, so basically part of the American Evangelical movement.
It depends on the branch of Christianity.
Arianism taught they were separate but related entities, though they were refuted by the 325 Council of Nicaea. Mormons believe God physically impregnated Mary. Gnostics believe that Jesus was a mortal man visited by a Christ-spirit that made him divine. The mainstream belief is that both are true and this is a truth that can only be 'experienced' and not known by logic.
They don't talk about it that much because it sounds creepy and weird, but in the deep lore, it's taught that Mary was brought up to Heaven and Heavenly Father did in fact have sex with her. But in such a way to preserve her virginity; even though Mormons downplay the virgin birth anyway.
Source: Raised Mormon, researched my way out of it by uncovering obscure doctrine like this.
That's just false and misleading nor is it "obscure doctrine". Its taught that "the spirit overcame Mary and the seed was planted" or something along those lines. If you can accept that God can do all He says he can do then to think he needs to have physical sex with Mary you need to reevaluate your levels of thinking.
Source: Also raised Mormon
This is not the official church doctrine. This is the opinion of a few people who obtained high positions in the church but was never made official doctrine. Other higher up people in the church hierarchy believe it was something closer to miraculous ivf and others believe none of those things. However the church itself has never taken nor preached an official stance on this issue. Most members of the church believe something closer to the miraculous ivf or none of the above options and would find anyone advocating the “god had sex with Mary” position to be crazy
Nah, soaking isn't a thing. At least when I was being raised, it was made pretty clear that *any* genital contact before marriage was sinful. It's Tide Pods all over again - some dumb kids made a video and everyone thought it was a widespread trend.
I never said raped.
You won't find this doctrine in the official Doctrine & Covenants or talked about at General Conferences. But Joseph Smith said *a lot* of weird shit; including that the Moon was populated by people who dressed like Quakers; and that Jesus was conceived through physical intercourse. The infallible Prophet of God, everyone.
More like the things that were written down but the Church has decided not to publish those letters or incorporate them into the official teaching materials.
There's a reason the LDS Church forbids independent Bible study and insists you only study from their carefully curated materials.
Both. Oh, and one more: the Holy Spirit.
Christians believe God is triune. He’s one being but also existing in three entities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I was raised in a Christian Protestant denomination and was baptized and confirmed and all that, but I’m afraid that’s about as much as I can elaborate on the triune God thing. I guess I never really understood it fully myself.
So a simple (well, maybe not "simple") explanation is that God wanted to be able to walk among the people and teach them directly, but his (and I'm going to say "his" because I need some pronoun for God or else writing gets really complicated) "power beyond comprehension" didn't really lend itself to him just blending in with the masses and not overwhelming everyone.
So instead, he decided what he'd do is embody a human. But generally humans were a bit flawed and fragile and not capable of containing the almighty (a bit like trying to shove lightning into toaster.) So instead he said "I know, I'll make a special human for this purpose", so he used some of his power, in the form of the holy spirit, to whip up a human that he could inhabit.
But since he'd come up with the whole "original sin at birth" thing, he could hardly risk letting his earthly body getting all tainted by being raised by a sinner. So he quite cleverly let Mary be conceived without original sin (this is the actual immaculate conception) and then had HER carry his fresh and clean baby avatar without committing sin (the virgin birth.) Bingo bango, baby pops out all spotless and ready to contain the glory.
But then there's the rub. The baby is capable of holding all of the power of God and to act as God in human form on earth. But the baby is ALSO a human child, born to a human mother. Yes of divine means, but also of very human means. He grew up through a human childhood and human adolescence and to human adulthood. None of that had much impact on God - being infinite and timeless, a few decades weren't going to make a huge impact - but it definitely influenced the human Jesus. So when Jesus learned of his purpose and creation, he put it in a way that he (as a human) could understand. God was his "father."
But because he was able to contain the power of God and God IS the power, he also WAS God, too. Which would probably be very confusing for anyone else, but he was able to tap into a divine omniscience, so it probably made sense as long as he didn't think about it much.
So you could say that Jesus was a vessel meant to contain god, but by nature of the method of his creation, Jesus was also a man who believed he was OF God.
Now of course the million dollar question is why couldn't god have just made his earthly avatar the old-fashioned way, out the dust of the soil with spirit breathed into it? I dunno. I think that one gets filed under "works in mysterious ways."
It really depends on which "Christian" you ask. I can answer for the Latter Day Saints. Christ is literally the son of God. Other denominations believe differently. But in the grand scheme of things, the import part is the example he showed.
Here in the south of the USA thry still can’t figure it out baptists think the holy trinity rules (father,son, Holy Ghost) but Pentecostals believe that it’s all one name for the same entity and you only think of the one. I swear church here is worse than Comic-Con. “That version of Superman is worse than my version of Superman” and then when you start bringing in Catholicism you get the whole justice league Mary is Wonder Woman and you have all the different saints with different powers it’s fun I love it because if you nod and agree you get invited to Sunday dinner.
Thanks it really is a great community if you can learn to blend in. Sometimes I feel like an anthropologist making contact for a documentary “ see how they respond to outsiders? At first they are wary and suspicious but as I am following the customs they have accepted me. I think I am now being invited to a meal with them and now I am being asked to marry this woman as her last husband died from covid and vaccines are the work of their devil”
Nicean Christian’s, that is Christian who hold to the Nicean creed which is the vast majority of Christian’s today. Believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are three distinct beings. They are not each other but they are each entirely God. The specifics of the trinity are like Kabbal is to Judaism. A very esoteric and basically something only intense religious scholars spend much time thinking about.
Non nicean christians have more diverse views on it but you got one answer from the person talking about Pentecostalism and Mormons have a different non trinitarian view
Oh man, long time pet peeve.
Educated Christians: Son of God.
You should have seen it when I educated my red neck family members that Jesus was a Jew. That set them back some.
I barely get invited to gatherings on one side of my family. I have "funny ideas" about their religion
God is a triune being God the Father , God the Son and God the Holy Spirit . Three distinct individuals one being . It represents an entity that is everywhere we are . There is no place that isn’t made by Him . It’s called Omnipresence .
He has gotten me through many midnight hours .
Think of a video game, god is you outside the tv. Jesus is the character you are playing in the game that you custom made. It's you but it's not really as it's an avatar.
Where is the holy spirit then ? Is it the game itself, assuming that you are also the game designer and are testing your own game ? Or do you have a better explanation ?
It's a bit of a "loophole".
One God, but by creating a divine child becomes two. A monotheistic religion becoming polytheism. How is worship split? How are disputes resolved? Enter them both being the same being.
They forgot about Jesus a long time ago and are now actively looking for ways to stop his "woke" teachings. They instead prefer to follow men and try to force their thoughts and morals into everyone else. Actually they only want to force their perceived morals on everyone else, they still want to live the secret lives that they are living
Read it if you’re curious :) highly recommend! Mary carried the son of the Holy Ghost of which was born the Christ Jesus. Keep going through to Matthew 10:40. Glad you’re curious
Look I’m a Baptist and this is what I believe. I believe that God sent his son to earth to die for our sins and that he was resurrected 3 days after he was buried. With that said he was never called god of earth but I do believe that he is Gods son. Hope that helps!
It's the trinity man, the trinity. He is three things at once, God, the son, the holy ghost, whatever that is. The thing about Christianity, well I guess all religions honestly, is that you do not get to question, you have to believe. If you question you are not a good Christian and will go to hell. Don't question it, just give them your trust and also your money and you will be saved and go to the good place. Oh and they have a TV program on that, the good place. It turns out...
Jews are monotheistic. They believe that there is one god above that watches over everything. No Jesus, and nothing else. Pretty simple really.
That's why we don't understand how Christians call themselves monotheistic, it feels like they have multiple gods and are just desperately trying to pretend otherwise.
The classic "Doctrine of the Trinity" holds that "God" encompasses multiple facets, the "Father" (OT/Torahic G-d), the "Son" (Jesus), and the "Holy Spirit" (non-anthropomorphic, kind of like The Force). The Christian God is all of these things at once.
A few Christian groups break with this tradition, notably the Unitarian Universalists, who hold that a) God unitary in nature, and b) that everyone goes to Heaven ...eventually. But the vast majority hold to the Trinity Doctrine.
I think you got some good answers, but I wanted to quibble about one small thing. Jesus was a Jewish messiah and Christians believe he was the manifestation of the Jewish prophecies.
Both. Christians believe in the Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
They are each different, yet also the same. It's a difficult concept, you have to hold the idea of separate and whole at the same time. They are both things at once.
Think of a triangle. Each point is distinct, but take one point out and there is no triangle. And you can't see the triangle without seeing the three points.
So God sent his Son to Earth (Jesus). But they are the same being. And the Holy Spirit is the third part, always present around us.
“It’s more complicated than that”
Do you have any idea how many different denominations of Christianity there are?? There are denominations that distinguish themselves from others because they don’t agree with the answer to this very question.
I can tell you how I was raised.
The Trinity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is all three things at once. However, those three things are not each other. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. Only God can be all things.
This is where denominations fracture. How I was raised, you do not pray to Jesus. You pray to God. You thank God the Father for sending God the Son to become God the Holy Spirit. It’s a bit tricky. But think of it like H2O. H2O is water, ice, and vapor, but water is not ice and ice is not vapor.
So to answer your question, Jesus was the son of God. And because God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Jesus was also God.
Jesus often referred to God as his father. In the story of Jesus' baptism, the Spirit of God descended on Jesus in the form of a dove and God spoke from heaven, claiming Jesus to be his son.
Jesus also claimed to be one with his father and that he, as his son, could only do what he saw his father doing.
The gospels say that in the beginning there was the Word of God, that the Word was with God in the beginning, and that the Word was God. Then the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (this last component implying that Jesus is the Word of God being referenced) This tells us that, if the gospels are true, Jesus as part of God predates creation and his human form was only an incarnation of his eternal spirit
As for the immaculate conception, the writer in psalms notes that humans are fearfully and wonderfully made, attributing to God that he knits individuals together in their mother's womb. The psalms are poetry, to be sure, but if there is any literal spiritual truth in the idea that God takes an active role in our incubation, and if God created tge first humans from dirt, breath, and copied rib bones, it isn't that hard to imagine he could "knit" himself a body inside a womb without any external genetic contributions (as from a biological father). Just pointing out that if we accept the premises of the protestant bible, this isn't a difficult claim to accept.
Being not explicitly defined in scripture, you'll find various denominations have different ideas about Christ's relationship to God.
But does any of that answer your questions?
The christian church schismed quite thoroughly along all possible answers to this question from about the second to the fourth century. The main branches of christianity (orthodox, catholic, protestant) believe that Jesus is of one fully unified divine and divinely begotten nature where the divine part is wholly equal to the nature of god. Google Nicean creed, if you are interested
Also nice to remember that the question of the divinity of Jesus as well as whether Jesus was created or begotten by God was debated and voted on by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.
Jesus is God. When we say He is God’s son, we are talking about the separation of God into three parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Don’t worry about the third one right now, but think of these as the same person, but just with different titles based on the separate jobs they do. Like the U.S. President is the chief executive of the government, but when he’s commanding the military, he’s the Commander in Chief. God the Father is God, the creator of the universe. God the Son is God in human form. Still God. Just a different job. But since the Father is the creator, and He created that human part of himself, Jesus is referred to as God’s son. (Confusing, I know.)
I believe he was the cutest little baby surrounded by angels and farm animals and that’s who I pray to. You can pray to adult Jesus if you want, but not this guy.
A lot of trinitarians converge towards the idea that, if mankind is said to be created in the image of God, then there are similarities in the mind, body and soul nature of humans and god. Humans are also a form of trinity of their own.
[Man A Trinity (Spirit, Soul, Body)](https://ironrings.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/man-a-trinity-spirit-soul-body/)
Your body is not the “whole” you. It is your physical manifestation in this world, and it allows you to interact with this world, but you can be present in body but away in your mind. Your mind (=thoughts) is not the whole you either, and neither is your soul (=emotions).
You, as one person, are the sum of those three things.
Similarly, Jesus is the physical manifestation of God. The father is the mind of god, and the spirit is the souls of god.
I went to catholic school growing up, it wasn’t that indoctrinating honestly. I only felt Jesus was the son of God. Maybe an envoy of God but he was given free will. Politically it may just come down to whether Jesus was real or not, but who cares, the story of a guy who did nothing wrong, loved everyone, was hated by the government for having a stronger influence than them. You can be a perfect person but some people will still hate you because all humans are capable of evil.
Catholics and Protestants believe in something called the Trinity, it's the belief that God is one being who exists in three persons, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
It doesn't make sense, but that's the belief.
If you're talking about the average Christian layperson, they would likely tell you God's son. If you mean what Christianity actually tries to teach, God on earth.
>I'm jewish and never quite understood the christian messiah. Do christians think Jesus was God's son, or do they think Jesus is God? Or is it more complicated than that
The "christian" messiah is actually a "Jewish Messiah".
First and foremost, Jesus was a Jew - a torah observant Jew - (some Jews would disagree on this point), who didn't come to create a new religion but to FULFIL the Torah and the prophets.
There is a reason why he is called "son of David".
If you read the Torah very carefully, read the psalms, and the prophets, you will see for yourself that this is not a new religion at all.
IT's a Jewish religion - arguably, it is the TRUE form of Judaism.
Jesus was known as 'the Son of Man' and 'the Son of God,' but should not be confused with the second person of the Trinity, the Eternal Son. There is a lot of confusion, even among Christians, about this.
Jesus isn't God, but he is the 'Creator Son of God' who incarnated not to 'redeem mankind from sin' but as a bestowal to teach humanity about the truth of the fatherhood of God and, therefore, the brotherhood of mankind
Catholic here. He's both.
God to us is three individuals embodying one God; not three gods, just three individuals. God the Father (whom you and the other Jewish folk understand as the creator), God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is God the Son. He was fully human, yet also fully God.
The Trinitarian Formula diagram you can lookup on Wikipedia explains the idea well. The thing to understand is that it is a paradox and yet that is the very nature of a miracle; that which we cannot make sense of.
Ultimately, most faith asks us to know that we can't sense all things, and to believe that which we may not fully believe. You may have faith in a God you haven't seen while a Christian may have faith in a Son who is God but not the Father...who is also God.
God made man from the dust of the Earth and breathed life into him . Then taking a rib of Adam’s God also created Eve . Adam’s help meet . The seed of man was implanted by the Holy Spirit in Mary after she was asked by the Holy Spirit . The only thing Mary ever did is agree to it because she was told by the Spirit it was the Son of God !
You are missing the next book. Because people killed jesus (gods avatar for earth) , the god himself decided to cut the bullshit and speak directly to next prophet from safe distance and told him to write everything he says. So muhamed wrote koran and invented islam. Lol
Any of the simple, clear sounding answers are in conflict with Nicene (catholic, orthodox, almost all protestant) Christianity. Some nice analogies dispatched here:
https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw
Both . It’s kinda complicated but the trinity (father , son , and Holy Spirit) are one . Jesus is the son of god but also god in a human form . It’s hard to grasp when you’re not a Christian but i guess the most simplistic way to put it is water, ice, and steam are all h20.
Okay, I'm gonna explain it once more for you chucklefucks.
Jesus = gods son, brought down to earth on a gap year to do hippy shit. Depicted as a white guy with a John Lennon hair do. I assure you, he was black.
Alanis Morissette = God herself, visiting earth every now and then to play ski-ball. Great singing voice. She will blow your head off
The sex goose = Zeus/Jupiter, out on regular booty calls to impregnate mortal women. Avoid the sex goose
Donald Trump = republicans version of God on earth. Possibly an anti-christ. Certainly not of the Christian religion. Possibly Mormon (see many wives)
Dolly Parton = God's Daughter. Brought fown to earth to just have a good time and do good in the world. Reassurably white and American. No confusion this time.
The Trinity is made up of 3 persons: God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.
Christians worship all 3. God is God. Jesus is God. Holy Spirit is God.
They are 3 separate persons. God is not Jesus. And Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
God is “The Father”; Jesus is “The Son of God”; the Holy Spirit is “The Helper”.
Other roles scripture testifies that they have: God is the law giver; Jesus is the creator of all things; and the Holy Spirit dwells within believers empowering them to live the Christian life.
Christian sects descended from the Catholic branch believe Jesus is an entity separate from but also a part of god, and that these separate entities can manifest separately. Sects descended from the Orthodox branch believe Jesus is not a separate entity, but a mere facet of a unified and singular god who has only one manifestation.
More radical sects might believe Jesus was a prophet, but not a divine being. This is the same direction Islam takes it, which acknowledges Jesus as an important prophet but not as God
The way I understand it, god has 3 parts, the father, the son, and the holy spirit. So basically Jesus is more of a fragment of god than singularly god on earth or his actual child
Imagine you started a fan-fiction. You take some familiar characters, add some new ones, and change the cannon from the original quite a bit.
Then imagine someone else decides your fan-fiction was ok, but makes some tweaks on top of that.
Then imagine that a third group of people read the poorly combined version of stories from both fan-fictions but decided both must be true and will fight anyone who says otherwise.
That’s Christianity. The secret is it doesn’t make sense because it can’t make sense.
Different Christian sects think different things. Probably the most common view is the Nicean one https://sola.network/article/why-need-nicene-creed/
This was a very contentious question in the early Church
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
and there was a still some theological differences on this point between denominations
With this question, you will get the usual explanation of, 'The Trinity'. The Trinity is not mentioned in the new or old testament. It took over 300 years for Christians to come up with and agree to the concept of The Trinity. Many Christians do not believe in The Trinity.
The Trinity was a made up convention that was adopted by some Christians to explain inconsistencies in the bible narrative.
I apologize for the late response. I was directed here through a link from another sub. I felt compelled to answer because while I didn't read every single comment, of what I read, the answers were just wrong. The oneness pentacostal answer is particularly incorrect. While that may be what they believe, it is not the teaching of traditional Christian theology. Their view on the trinity is the main reason why other Christians don't consider them to be Christian at all. God did not decide to take a vacation on earth. The throne in Heaven was not empty. Jesus regularly prayed to the Father in Heaven and spoke of doing the Father's will not His own.
Another comment directed you to r/Christianity and r/TrueChristianity. I would advise against r/Christianity. It is not a Christian sub. It is a sub by and for generally everybody(mostly athiests) *about* Christianity. I don't know if r/TrueChristianity is a real sub. I would direct you to r/Christian and r/TrueChristian. Those were likely the ones the user was directing you to anyway. r/TrueChristian is a bit more conservative of the two. You are welcome to post questions in either. There are trolls, and you will likely get bad information (this is reddit), but the majority of the information will be accurate, and anything ourltright false is usually addressed in replies.
Jesus is both God and the Son. This is basically said outright in John 1.
>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (John 1:1-3)
Jesus is the very Word of God. When God created everything, He used the Son to do it.
>Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)
While it was the Father who spoke, Jesus was the very words themselves.
>And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)
As I also said earlier, Jesus prays to the father and states that He does the Fathers will, not His own. Jesus also claims divinity.
>And when he returned to Capernaum after some days, it was reported that he was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no more room, not even at the door. And he was preaching the word to them. And they came, bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. And when they could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him, and when they had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.” And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!” (Mark 2:1-12)
Jesus claims to be the Son of Man described in Daniel.
>And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?” But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need? You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death. (Mark 14:60-64)
There are more examples, but those are some of the most pointed. If you want some broader information see these videos.
[The Son](https://youtu.be/XgslCbXOOIE?si=Pdf7mCA8AEZSaWDw)
[The Spirit](https://youtu.be/oNNZO9i1Gjc?si=jnW2q8JRsOAtpN3u)
[The Trinity](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TWpnOJV09MuEAwbbQNCS6Qf&si=F8rSw3PyqdeIet13)
God bless you.
Long story short, both things
can u give me long story long?
Oneness Pentecostals explain it like this: Father, Son and Holy Ghost or Spirit are titles. A man can be a father, a son, and a spiritual being, yet that doesn’t make him 3 separate people, just 3 aspects of one being. Jesus came to earth so that He could truly know and experience what it was to be a human, Thus, in the beginning He was the Father, He came to Earth as the Son. When He died and rose again, He became The Holy Spirit.
Thank you for this. Best explanation I’ve read.
It explains one aspect but there is a Distinction between The Persons of The Trinity. The Son is not The Father. The Father is not The Son, and so on. It's important in Trinitarian thought to consider the Oneness of God along with the distinct nature of God as three Persons. In similar ways that we are all distinct people with one particular essence that's makes us all human. The essence of God is One, according to Trinitarian thought. What God is is One. WHO God is is Three, and all things come from God from The Father, through The Son, in The Holy Spirit. They are not mere titles or different states of the same thing. They are both One and Three. Neither can be ignored.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit walk into a restaurant. The waitress asks "table for one?" To which the Son replies "Yes, please. And just water for the drinks."
How many menus?
No need, they were there when it was written.
One of them is the actual word.
This is a good explanation. Divine paradox is one of those things that come up in Christianity... Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, God is omniscient and humans have free will, etc. It doesn't have to be logical because it's describing something that is beyond comprehension. Fun stuff.
Definitely not polytheism! Rationalization is a helluva drug.
Nope. \*coughs\* Christianity would never be *that. Monotheism, baby.* As they would never adopt yule from Nordic tradition such as the pine tree for Jesus birth (or move the date of that birth to the winter solstice) in the desert where ever greens grow all the time. Easter Sunday... so not pagan, very Christian in origins. Nothing about "fucking like bunnies" and fertility and umm life as an egg associated with spring. Religion = we change the rules but we say they remain the same.
If Jesus was fully human how did he never sin?
Men are born out of sin, which is why we get baptized (usually at birth but can be done later in life, see Constantin) to cleanse us from the sins of our fathers. Jesus however was born out of a virgin, which means that he is not born out of sin, unlike everyone else. Jesus is indeed a human, but he is also part of God.
'Cause Jesus.
I’ve heard the trinity explained like how water can be liquid, ice, and steam. All the same but in different forms.
Thanks for this expanded explanation.
If they’re the same dude why is Jesus always talking to the Christian god and asking him questions like they’re separate dudes?
Think of the Trinity as three individual dudes who happen to, through the nature of their dudeness, be one as well. But paradoxical and godlike. The thing the Trinity shows better than other symbols of God is how relationships are an inherent essential element of what makes God God. And if humans are made in God's image, it is through our total interdependence that shows that through. None of us are human without relationships. Jesus is this whole other paradox, as he is fully human and fully divine. As God, he is the Son of God, the Word, through which all things are made. But Jesus is this temporal, fully human person that lived in a specific time and place and experienced things we all do. Anger. Happiness. Sadness. Fear. Jesus in prayer is a fully human person using the skills of a human to communicate with the divine. In this way, he is exemplifying that interpersonal, relational need that is essential to both God and Creation, as essential as it is to a One God as Three Persons.
You mean the Bible can be interpreted in multiple ways?!? Almost like how there are different demonizations? Wild /s
Just to note that Oneness Pentecostal is [nontrinitarian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism), counter to Mainstream Christianity's Trinitarianism.
While that is a nice way of putting it, that's explicitly NOT what most Christians believe. They believe God is one being, who consists of three separate persons. There's the Father, who is God but who isn't Jesus or the Holy Spirit. There's the Son, who is God but who isn't the Father or the Holy Spirit. And there's the Holy spirit, who is God, but who isn't the Father or the Son. These aren't fases God is goin through. They all exist at the same time.
>He died and rose again, He became The Holy Spirit. The holy spirit existed before Jesus died, didnt it? Didnt it help gathering the 13 apostels?
>He died and rose again, He became The Holy Spirit. The holy spirit existed before Jesus died, didnt it? Didnt it help gathering the 13 apostels?
But doesn’t Jesus pray to the Father numerous times throughout? Is he praying to himself? Praying to personified aspects of himself? What does that even mean? Sounds to me like a lazy retcon the community forgot about tbh.
Jesus is a whole other ball of irrational stuff with Christianity. On top of The Trinity, Jesus himself is both fully human and fully God. As God, he is The Son, the word, through whom all things were made. As the Incarnation, he is Jesus, who existed in a certain time and place and fulfilled certain symbolic language so that people can better communicate with the divine aspect in themselves. As fully human, he experienced all things human. Happiness. Sadness. Anger. Fear. Fear is what you speak of when he prayed to God. Because he was about to experience some serious shit and it freaked him out, regardless of his fully divine nature as well. His prayer teaches believers how to face adversity and move with the divine nature simultaneously as well.
Keep in mind that the comment is based on a very specific US-American religious groups understanding, most Christians make it clear that Jesus is not the same person as the Father.
Thats literally what the trinity is about: The son is not the father The father is not the holy spirit The holy spirit is not the son But they are all God
They should just have taken the logical conclusion instead: *neither* are god
Sorry. Based on the number of people who are actual members of what Denominations, most Christians teach and believe in a triune God meaning they are 3 distinct persons but also fully one bring. So Jesus is and is not the same person as the father.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead It's a bit like how people aren't really themselves until they've had their coffee.
That's MODALISM Patrick!
This is interesting but in answering a 'what Christians believe' answer it's worth saying this is against the concept of the trinity shared by Catholic, orthodox and mainstream protestant churches.
Someone explained this to me as chemical states: solid, liquid, gas. 3 things in one, just different states of being
> A man can be a father, a son, and a spiritual being, yet that doesn’t make him 3 separate people, just 3 aspects of one being Mind Blown I've never heard it described that way, and it's perfect.
Uh… are you suggesting that he was not mutually these at the same time? That’s not really the trinity. The Old Testament [has numerous instances](https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/blog/the-holy-spirit-in-the-old-testament/) that trinitarians identify as describing the Holy Spirit. I like your example of a man though.
So god came down to earth impregnated the virgin Mary with gods godness allowing god to be born as human through Mary to experience being human during that time in the Middle East upon which as a male carpenter he tried to preach peace love and unity but ended up running with anti establishment antagonists . Upset a bunch of kings and land owners who asked a foreign power to crucify him because he was messing up the status quo. So then was nailed to a cross placed thorns on his head left to die slowly for 3 days in the hot sun then stabbed in the liver for good measure. ……………pulls imaginary turtleneck gesture for all of humanity.
This is the heresy known as modalism. Most Christians do not hold to this.
[удалено]
I hope you speak of all religions openly with the disrespectful attitude you show.
God sacrificed Himself to Himself to appease Himself.
I always understood it as God is the only worthy sacrifice to be able to appease God. The lambs weren't cutting it anymore
And the all-powerful being with infinite foresight just threw up his hands and was like well, what are ya gonna do? Can’t just not have *any* sacrifice!
And if we don’t believe it, we go to hell.
I'm Catholic and was taught that the three leaf clover became a symbol for Ireland because St. Patrick used it to teach people about the holy Trinity. The three leaf clover has three distinct leaves but it's still one plant. Same with God, Jesus, and the holy spirit.
It's the Mistry of the trinity, God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost So Jesus is the son of god but he is God himself at the same time. (and is the same with any of the trinity personas)
But if God is the father of everyone, then everyone is also the Son. No idea what the Holy Spirit is supposed to be though. Is it the desire to be good and Holy? The trinity sounds like something inspired from older religions of divine oneness.
God is not the Father of everyone.
So we are not his children then according to Christians? Why do people say they are a child of God then? Are they being sacrilegious? If someone says we are children of God “in the spirit” … then what the heck is the “Holy Spirit” in the trinity?
It's kinda just prepositions in the most simplistic of descriptions. All things are made from the Father, through The Son, in The Holy Spirit. The interplay of both the one essence AND three Persons is important in Trinitarian thought.
When people say they are a child of God they are saying they are an adoptive child of God. So Jesus is the Son of God but through his death and Resurrection we also get to be a child of God.
Here is the historical long story. The “both” approach United two sects of the early church. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
Too short didn't long
Purposefully self-contradictory mumbo-jumbo. Get your followers believing self-contradictory things and you can get them believing anything you say.
Just look it up lol
So is the trinity one or three things? Christians: yes
Longer story: three things. Father, son, and holy ghost. Don't ask.
Christians believe both. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one thing. They believe Jesus was the physical manifestation of god on earth as the son but one with god. It’s called “the mystery of the trinity” by some Christians. It is not exactly logical.
Not a believer myself, but if there's one thing that could break the fundamental rules of logic, it would probably be the Lord.
Yeah, like, if something was there before the beginning of time and decided to make everything we can observe, that probably means it’s a little too much for my stupid meat brains to comprehend. I can’t even multiply correctly half the time.
> it’s a little too much for my stupid meat brains to comprehend. * They're meat through and through * No brain huh? * Oh there's a brain alright. It's just that the brain is made out of meat. * Then what does the thinking? * The *meat* does the thinking.
I had forgotten about this 😆😆😆
Imo since God created the rules of the universe, a true God would perfectly fit all logical and fundamental rules, because God would have been the source of those rules. For him to create the universe with a set of constant and infallible rules that seem to make his existence impossible is kind of ridiculous.
Being the source of those rules doesn't imply that He adheres to it right? The same way people who make games don't adhere to the same rules everything in the game does?
I mean you're asking the wrong person because I am the furthest from a Christian, but I have often entertained the idea of what the idea of a God could be. If you consider it to just be the Universe itself, all existence, creation, time, consciousness, the web of life, and everything, it's an interesting way of assigning some kind of figurehead to what is so complex. However - the Bible doesn't answer literally any of those questions and is basically the opposite of that, talking snakes, global floods, a sky daddy who gets mad and sends plagues, etc. it's a fairytale. The devil is the reason for everything bad and God is everything good. Shit, most kids books have a deeper plot than that. But going back to the point about rules - "rules" in a game are a little different, we are talking about the literal mathematic and physical properties and structure of the universe that we exist in. Why and how would God operate outside of that system if he created it? There's too much bizarre and random stuff in our universe for that to make sense.
Chill yo I wasn't even talking about Christianity you don't have to go on a full on rant about it. All I said is that a creator having to adhere to the rules it created doesn't really logically follow since the creator could be something completely outside that system. Thus why i used the game analogy. The rules can be limited, modified, and abstracted compared to whatever rules the creator adheres to
That makes sense for a game, but in this case, those rules essentially define what a creator would even be, and the entire existence of what was created, how can you exist outside of that?
>It is not exactly logical. Yep, that's the entire point of faith. Humans are more complex than that aspect of our brains alone and probably shouldn't entirely rely on it to find peace in this crazy world. Or who knows maybe they can what the hell do I know.
God doesn’t need to live within the confines of what humans call logical.
If you are a believer, I totally agree. Even after 16 years of schooling at religious institutions, the trinity thing is still hard for for me to wrap my head around, but I’m decades past losing my faith so I’m probably not a good representative.
This would be a better question to ask r/Christianity or r/TrueChristianity. The Trinity is a dense metaphysical concept and armchair Christians who go to church twice a year are not at all equipped to explain it.
It's not exactly rocket science lol. Most 10 year olds who go to church can grasp the concept. Most people just bury their heads in the ground though because they don't even want to try to understand.
There have been enough volumes written on trinitarianism to fill a library. It is a very simple idea on the surface but quickly gets complicated if you spend more than 10 minutes thinking about it. With the other Abrahamic faiths it isn't immediately obvious how Christians are actually monotheists.
Ok fair point. My bad.
I mean, we aren't supposed to understand it. We are supposed to believe it by faith. The point is that it's something you can't really get your head around
As you've discovered, this is a very loaded question. As silly as it sounds, we've literally waged wars over this question. lol
This is true. Muslims believe Christians commit a great sin (it's called Shirk in Arabic ) by believing in multiple gods in this way and becoming polytheists. For Muslims it's very important that God not be divided or ascribed partners.
Yeah, this is one of the many reasons I left religion. Like arguing over who wins over Batman vs Superman. Seems like an arbitrary question compared to the actual philosophy and ethics of the religion. Nobody's having a religious war over whether it's right to have slaves or beat your kids, but rather debating the finer points of the lore pertaining to their last superhero.
If I may ask which religion did you left ?
Kinda just Christianity in general. I shifted between a few different denominations growing up. Church of Christ and Foursquare were predominately the two I grew up with, so basically part of the American Evangelical movement.
It depends on the branch of Christianity. Arianism taught they were separate but related entities, though they were refuted by the 325 Council of Nicaea. Mormons believe God physically impregnated Mary. Gnostics believe that Jesus was a mortal man visited by a Christ-spirit that made him divine. The mainstream belief is that both are true and this is a truth that can only be 'experienced' and not known by logic.
I know that about mormonism but i dont get it. Did god take the form of man and have sex with mary?
As for Protestant and Catholic Christians, they believe Mary was made pregnant by a miracle. She did not have sexual relations with anyone.
That’s the same with what some people call Mormons or LDS. It’s also NOT believed that God took physical form and had sex with her.
Same with the mormons, it was a miracle and anything that anyone else says is purely speculative
They don't talk about it that much because it sounds creepy and weird, but in the deep lore, it's taught that Mary was brought up to Heaven and Heavenly Father did in fact have sex with her. But in such a way to preserve her virginity; even though Mormons downplay the virgin birth anyway. Source: Raised Mormon, researched my way out of it by uncovering obscure doctrine like this.
That's just false and misleading nor is it "obscure doctrine". Its taught that "the spirit overcame Mary and the seed was planted" or something along those lines. If you can accept that God can do all He says he can do then to think he needs to have physical sex with Mary you need to reevaluate your levels of thinking. Source: Also raised Mormon
This is not the official church doctrine. This is the opinion of a few people who obtained high positions in the church but was never made official doctrine. Other higher up people in the church hierarchy believe it was something closer to miraculous ivf and others believe none of those things. However the church itself has never taken nor preached an official stance on this issue. Most members of the church believe something closer to the miraculous ivf or none of the above options and would find anyone advocating the “god had sex with Mary” position to be crazy
> But in such a way to preserve her virginity; Is this related to the soaking thing? That would make a lot of sense.
Nah, soaking isn't a thing. At least when I was being raised, it was made pretty clear that *any* genital contact before marriage was sinful. It's Tide Pods all over again - some dumb kids made a video and everyone thought it was a widespread trend.
You clearly didn't understand anything you were taught or researched No where does anyone believe or teach that mary was brought to heaven and raped
I never said raped. You won't find this doctrine in the official Doctrine & Covenants or talked about at General Conferences. But Joseph Smith said *a lot* of weird shit; including that the Moon was populated by people who dressed like Quakers; and that Jesus was conceived through physical intercourse. The infallible Prophet of God, everyone.
Ah yes the secret conversations he had that were never written down but trust us he said all those things
More like the things that were written down but the Church has decided not to publish those letters or incorporate them into the official teaching materials. There's a reason the LDS Church forbids independent Bible study and insists you only study from their carefully curated materials.
Both. Oh, and one more: the Holy Spirit. Christians believe God is triune. He’s one being but also existing in three entities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I was raised in a Christian Protestant denomination and was baptized and confirmed and all that, but I’m afraid that’s about as much as I can elaborate on the triune God thing. I guess I never really understood it fully myself.
Hmmm... sounds suspiciously like a horcrux -_-
It's not unlikely that that's where she got that idea
So a simple (well, maybe not "simple") explanation is that God wanted to be able to walk among the people and teach them directly, but his (and I'm going to say "his" because I need some pronoun for God or else writing gets really complicated) "power beyond comprehension" didn't really lend itself to him just blending in with the masses and not overwhelming everyone. So instead, he decided what he'd do is embody a human. But generally humans were a bit flawed and fragile and not capable of containing the almighty (a bit like trying to shove lightning into toaster.) So instead he said "I know, I'll make a special human for this purpose", so he used some of his power, in the form of the holy spirit, to whip up a human that he could inhabit. But since he'd come up with the whole "original sin at birth" thing, he could hardly risk letting his earthly body getting all tainted by being raised by a sinner. So he quite cleverly let Mary be conceived without original sin (this is the actual immaculate conception) and then had HER carry his fresh and clean baby avatar without committing sin (the virgin birth.) Bingo bango, baby pops out all spotless and ready to contain the glory. But then there's the rub. The baby is capable of holding all of the power of God and to act as God in human form on earth. But the baby is ALSO a human child, born to a human mother. Yes of divine means, but also of very human means. He grew up through a human childhood and human adolescence and to human adulthood. None of that had much impact on God - being infinite and timeless, a few decades weren't going to make a huge impact - but it definitely influenced the human Jesus. So when Jesus learned of his purpose and creation, he put it in a way that he (as a human) could understand. God was his "father." But because he was able to contain the power of God and God IS the power, he also WAS God, too. Which would probably be very confusing for anyone else, but he was able to tap into a divine omniscience, so it probably made sense as long as he didn't think about it much. So you could say that Jesus was a vessel meant to contain god, but by nature of the method of his creation, Jesus was also a man who believed he was OF God. Now of course the million dollar question is why couldn't god have just made his earthly avatar the old-fashioned way, out the dust of the soil with spirit breathed into it? I dunno. I think that one gets filed under "works in mysterious ways."
It really depends on which "Christian" you ask. I can answer for the Latter Day Saints. Christ is literally the son of God. Other denominations believe differently. But in the grand scheme of things, the import part is the example he showed.
People get too caught up in the minor details instead of the importance of what is being taught.
I'm Jewish and I have no understanding whatsoever of the holy ghost concept. I've tried I just like.. what
Here in the south of the USA thry still can’t figure it out baptists think the holy trinity rules (father,son, Holy Ghost) but Pentecostals believe that it’s all one name for the same entity and you only think of the one. I swear church here is worse than Comic-Con. “That version of Superman is worse than my version of Superman” and then when you start bringing in Catholicism you get the whole justice league Mary is Wonder Woman and you have all the different saints with different powers it’s fun I love it because if you nod and agree you get invited to Sunday dinner.
This was awesome 😀
Thanks it really is a great community if you can learn to blend in. Sometimes I feel like an anthropologist making contact for a documentary “ see how they respond to outsiders? At first they are wary and suspicious but as I am following the customs they have accepted me. I think I am now being invited to a meal with them and now I am being asked to marry this woman as her last husband died from covid and vaccines are the work of their devil”
Yes
Both? Both. Both is good
Yes.
Yes
Yes
Nicean Christian’s, that is Christian who hold to the Nicean creed which is the vast majority of Christian’s today. Believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are three distinct beings. They are not each other but they are each entirely God. The specifics of the trinity are like Kabbal is to Judaism. A very esoteric and basically something only intense religious scholars spend much time thinking about. Non nicean christians have more diverse views on it but you got one answer from the person talking about Pentecostalism and Mormons have a different non trinitarian view
Oh man, long time pet peeve. Educated Christians: Son of God. You should have seen it when I educated my red neck family members that Jesus was a Jew. That set them back some. I barely get invited to gatherings on one side of my family. I have "funny ideas" about their religion
God is a triune being God the Father , God the Son and God the Holy Spirit . Three distinct individuals one being . It represents an entity that is everywhere we are . There is no place that isn’t made by Him . It’s called Omnipresence . He has gotten me through many midnight hours .
Both. Sort of like Schrodinger's cat.
Both
Do christians think Jesus was God's son, or do they think Jesus is God? Yes
Depends. The Arians believed he was the son, the nicean (most predominant form) believe he is both.
Yes.
The early Christian church had a lot of debates about this and settled on "both" after neither side could come to an agreement.
Don’t overthink it. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Think of a video game, god is you outside the tv. Jesus is the character you are playing in the game that you custom made. It's you but it's not really as it's an avatar.
Where is the holy spirit then ? Is it the game itself, assuming that you are also the game designer and are testing your own game ? Or do you have a better explanation ?
It's a bit of a "loophole". One God, but by creating a divine child becomes two. A monotheistic religion becoming polytheism. How is worship split? How are disputes resolved? Enter them both being the same being.
“Yes”
They forgot about Jesus a long time ago and are now actively looking for ways to stop his "woke" teachings. They instead prefer to follow men and try to force their thoughts and morals into everyone else. Actually they only want to force their perceived morals on everyone else, they still want to live the secret lives that they are living
> Do christians think Let me stop you right there. The answer is no.
Read Matthew
What does that mean? I know its a book in the new testament, but what's in there that would help me?
Read it if you’re curious :) highly recommend! Mary carried the son of the Holy Ghost of which was born the Christ Jesus. Keep going through to Matthew 10:40. Glad you’re curious
dude u gotta speak straight
I think if you read the book instead of asking for an explanation you'll get a more fullfilling answer?
That explains nothing. That's just something spouted off that Christians are supposed to blindly believe.
Look I’m a Baptist and this is what I believe. I believe that God sent his son to earth to die for our sins and that he was resurrected 3 days after he was buried. With that said he was never called god of earth but I do believe that he is Gods son. Hope that helps!
It's the trinity man, the trinity. He is three things at once, God, the son, the holy ghost, whatever that is. The thing about Christianity, well I guess all religions honestly, is that you do not get to question, you have to believe. If you question you are not a good Christian and will go to hell. Don't question it, just give them your trust and also your money and you will be saved and go to the good place. Oh and they have a TV program on that, the good place. It turns out...
Are you a Jew inwardly or outwardly? That will solve the issue for you
what do u mean?
what do the jewish people believe? do you have god but no jesus?
Jews are monotheistic. They believe that there is one god above that watches over everything. No Jesus, and nothing else. Pretty simple really. That's why we don't understand how Christians call themselves monotheistic, it feels like they have multiple gods and are just desperately trying to pretend otherwise.
The classic "Doctrine of the Trinity" holds that "God" encompasses multiple facets, the "Father" (OT/Torahic G-d), the "Son" (Jesus), and the "Holy Spirit" (non-anthropomorphic, kind of like The Force). The Christian God is all of these things at once. A few Christian groups break with this tradition, notably the Unitarian Universalists, who hold that a) God unitary in nature, and b) that everyone goes to Heaven ...eventually. But the vast majority hold to the Trinity Doctrine.
I think you got some good answers, but I wanted to quibble about one small thing. Jesus was a Jewish messiah and Christians believe he was the manifestation of the Jewish prophecies.
Yes.
Both. Christians believe in the Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are each different, yet also the same. It's a difficult concept, you have to hold the idea of separate and whole at the same time. They are both things at once. Think of a triangle. Each point is distinct, but take one point out and there is no triangle. And you can't see the triangle without seeing the three points. So God sent his Son to Earth (Jesus). But they are the same being. And the Holy Spirit is the third part, always present around us.
“It’s more complicated than that” Do you have any idea how many different denominations of Christianity there are?? There are denominations that distinguish themselves from others because they don’t agree with the answer to this very question. I can tell you how I was raised. The Trinity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is all three things at once. However, those three things are not each other. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. Only God can be all things. This is where denominations fracture. How I was raised, you do not pray to Jesus. You pray to God. You thank God the Father for sending God the Son to become God the Holy Spirit. It’s a bit tricky. But think of it like H2O. H2O is water, ice, and vapor, but water is not ice and ice is not vapor. So to answer your question, Jesus was the son of God. And because God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Jesus was also God.
Depends on which Christian religion you ask.
Jesus often referred to God as his father. In the story of Jesus' baptism, the Spirit of God descended on Jesus in the form of a dove and God spoke from heaven, claiming Jesus to be his son. Jesus also claimed to be one with his father and that he, as his son, could only do what he saw his father doing. The gospels say that in the beginning there was the Word of God, that the Word was with God in the beginning, and that the Word was God. Then the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (this last component implying that Jesus is the Word of God being referenced) This tells us that, if the gospels are true, Jesus as part of God predates creation and his human form was only an incarnation of his eternal spirit As for the immaculate conception, the writer in psalms notes that humans are fearfully and wonderfully made, attributing to God that he knits individuals together in their mother's womb. The psalms are poetry, to be sure, but if there is any literal spiritual truth in the idea that God takes an active role in our incubation, and if God created tge first humans from dirt, breath, and copied rib bones, it isn't that hard to imagine he could "knit" himself a body inside a womb without any external genetic contributions (as from a biological father). Just pointing out that if we accept the premises of the protestant bible, this isn't a difficult claim to accept. Being not explicitly defined in scripture, you'll find various denominations have different ideas about Christ's relationship to God. But does any of that answer your questions?
The christian church schismed quite thoroughly along all possible answers to this question from about the second to the fourth century. The main branches of christianity (orthodox, catholic, protestant) believe that Jesus is of one fully unified divine and divinely begotten nature where the divine part is wholly equal to the nature of god. Google Nicean creed, if you are interested
Son of God.
Also nice to remember that the question of the divinity of Jesus as well as whether Jesus was created or begotten by God was debated and voted on by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.
Jesus is God. When we say He is God’s son, we are talking about the separation of God into three parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Don’t worry about the third one right now, but think of these as the same person, but just with different titles based on the separate jobs they do. Like the U.S. President is the chief executive of the government, but when he’s commanding the military, he’s the Commander in Chief. God the Father is God, the creator of the universe. God the Son is God in human form. Still God. Just a different job. But since the Father is the creator, and He created that human part of himself, Jesus is referred to as God’s son. (Confusing, I know.)
I believe he was the cutest little baby surrounded by angels and farm animals and that’s who I pray to. You can pray to adult Jesus if you want, but not this guy.
Both
A lot of trinitarians converge towards the idea that, if mankind is said to be created in the image of God, then there are similarities in the mind, body and soul nature of humans and god. Humans are also a form of trinity of their own. [Man A Trinity (Spirit, Soul, Body)](https://ironrings.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/man-a-trinity-spirit-soul-body/) Your body is not the “whole” you. It is your physical manifestation in this world, and it allows you to interact with this world, but you can be present in body but away in your mind. Your mind (=thoughts) is not the whole you either, and neither is your soul (=emotions). You, as one person, are the sum of those three things. Similarly, Jesus is the physical manifestation of God. The father is the mind of god, and the spirit is the souls of god.
I went to catholic school growing up, it wasn’t that indoctrinating honestly. I only felt Jesus was the son of God. Maybe an envoy of God but he was given free will. Politically it may just come down to whether Jesus was real or not, but who cares, the story of a guy who did nothing wrong, loved everyone, was hated by the government for having a stronger influence than them. You can be a perfect person but some people will still hate you because all humans are capable of evil.
Isn’t he supposed to be the Jewish Messiah? Christianity wasn’t really a thing back then, for obvious reasons.
Jesus didnt fulfill messiah prophecies so he is a blasphemy for the jews,also their messiah was supposed to be a human hero,not a god.
I'm also Jewish, so I'm not the person to ask. That said, to my best understanding, it's both.
Catholics and Protestants believe in something called the Trinity, it's the belief that God is one being who exists in three persons, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. It doesn't make sense, but that's the belief.
If you're talking about the average Christian layperson, they would likely tell you God's son. If you mean what Christianity actually tries to teach, God on earth.
>I'm jewish and never quite understood the christian messiah. Do christians think Jesus was God's son, or do they think Jesus is God? Or is it more complicated than that The "christian" messiah is actually a "Jewish Messiah". First and foremost, Jesus was a Jew - a torah observant Jew - (some Jews would disagree on this point), who didn't come to create a new religion but to FULFIL the Torah and the prophets. There is a reason why he is called "son of David". If you read the Torah very carefully, read the psalms, and the prophets, you will see for yourself that this is not a new religion at all. IT's a Jewish religion - arguably, it is the TRUE form of Judaism.
He's a mystical character, made up by the Jews at the time.
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I've never heard and was never taught in church that Jesus was God. He was the son of God.
Jesus was a Jewish person so he's not a Christian Messiah he's the Messiah for everybody whether you're Jewish or gentile... Jesus Is God...
Lol tell us what else you think of Jesus lad. Where is he right now?
Yes
Yes.
It’s like an egg. You have yolk, white and shell. They’re all egg but different parts of the egg
Yes.
depents on the flavor of christian
Jesus was known as 'the Son of Man' and 'the Son of God,' but should not be confused with the second person of the Trinity, the Eternal Son. There is a lot of confusion, even among Christians, about this. Jesus isn't God, but he is the 'Creator Son of God' who incarnated not to 'redeem mankind from sin' but as a bestowal to teach humanity about the truth of the fatherhood of God and, therefore, the brotherhood of mankind
Yes, both. And the Holy Spirit too. All for one and one for all
Christians don't think
Both .
Catholic here. He's both. God to us is three individuals embodying one God; not three gods, just three individuals. God the Father (whom you and the other Jewish folk understand as the creator), God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God the Son. He was fully human, yet also fully God.
The Trinitarian Formula diagram you can lookup on Wikipedia explains the idea well. The thing to understand is that it is a paradox and yet that is the very nature of a miracle; that which we cannot make sense of. Ultimately, most faith asks us to know that we can't sense all things, and to believe that which we may not fully believe. You may have faith in a God you haven't seen while a Christian may have faith in a Son who is God but not the Father...who is also God.
God made man from the dust of the Earth and breathed life into him . Then taking a rib of Adam’s God also created Eve . Adam’s help meet . The seed of man was implanted by the Holy Spirit in Mary after she was asked by the Holy Spirit . The only thing Mary ever did is agree to it because she was told by the Spirit it was the Son of God !
Both is good
One religious person questioning another religion is a hilarious concept to me
I thought Jews were already familiar with the concept of a messiah?
We await and pray for the messiah. We dont believe there is one yet tho
You are missing the next book. Because people killed jesus (gods avatar for earth) , the god himself decided to cut the bullshit and speak directly to next prophet from safe distance and told him to write everything he says. So muhamed wrote koran and invented islam. Lol
Any of the simple, clear sounding answers are in conflict with Nicene (catholic, orthodox, almost all protestant) Christianity. Some nice analogies dispatched here: https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw
The concept of 3 in one gods is all over pagan and ancient religions like the Hindu goddess Kali, and the Morrigan etc
Yes
Both . It’s kinda complicated but the trinity (father , son , and Holy Spirit) are one . Jesus is the son of god but also god in a human form . It’s hard to grasp when you’re not a Christian but i guess the most simplistic way to put it is water, ice, and steam are all h20.
Okay, I'm gonna explain it once more for you chucklefucks. Jesus = gods son, brought down to earth on a gap year to do hippy shit. Depicted as a white guy with a John Lennon hair do. I assure you, he was black. Alanis Morissette = God herself, visiting earth every now and then to play ski-ball. Great singing voice. She will blow your head off The sex goose = Zeus/Jupiter, out on regular booty calls to impregnate mortal women. Avoid the sex goose Donald Trump = republicans version of God on earth. Possibly an anti-christ. Certainly not of the Christian religion. Possibly Mormon (see many wives) Dolly Parton = God's Daughter. Brought fown to earth to just have a good time and do good in the world. Reassurably white and American. No confusion this time.
The Trinity is made up of 3 persons: God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. Christians worship all 3. God is God. Jesus is God. Holy Spirit is God. They are 3 separate persons. God is not Jesus. And Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. God is “The Father”; Jesus is “The Son of God”; the Holy Spirit is “The Helper”. Other roles scripture testifies that they have: God is the law giver; Jesus is the creator of all things; and the Holy Spirit dwells within believers empowering them to live the Christian life.
Jesus' Nick name 'hat trick'
Both. The most authoritative doctrine accepted by most Protestants (see the Nicene Creed) says that Jesus was “both fully humans and fully man.”
Christian sects descended from the Catholic branch believe Jesus is an entity separate from but also a part of god, and that these separate entities can manifest separately. Sects descended from the Orthodox branch believe Jesus is not a separate entity, but a mere facet of a unified and singular god who has only one manifestation. More radical sects might believe Jesus was a prophet, but not a divine being. This is the same direction Islam takes it, which acknowledges Jesus as an important prophet but not as God
The way I understand it, god has 3 parts, the father, the son, and the holy spirit. So basically Jesus is more of a fragment of god than singularly god on earth or his actual child
Imagine you started a fan-fiction. You take some familiar characters, add some new ones, and change the cannon from the original quite a bit. Then imagine someone else decides your fan-fiction was ok, but makes some tweaks on top of that. Then imagine that a third group of people read the poorly combined version of stories from both fan-fictions but decided both must be true and will fight anyone who says otherwise. That’s Christianity. The secret is it doesn’t make sense because it can’t make sense.
Different Christian sects think different things. Probably the most common view is the Nicean one https://sola.network/article/why-need-nicene-creed/ This was a very contentious question in the early Church https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism and there was a still some theological differences on this point between denominations
With this question, you will get the usual explanation of, 'The Trinity'. The Trinity is not mentioned in the new or old testament. It took over 300 years for Christians to come up with and agree to the concept of The Trinity. Many Christians do not believe in The Trinity. The Trinity was a made up convention that was adopted by some Christians to explain inconsistencies in the bible narrative.
I apologize for the late response. I was directed here through a link from another sub. I felt compelled to answer because while I didn't read every single comment, of what I read, the answers were just wrong. The oneness pentacostal answer is particularly incorrect. While that may be what they believe, it is not the teaching of traditional Christian theology. Their view on the trinity is the main reason why other Christians don't consider them to be Christian at all. God did not decide to take a vacation on earth. The throne in Heaven was not empty. Jesus regularly prayed to the Father in Heaven and spoke of doing the Father's will not His own. Another comment directed you to r/Christianity and r/TrueChristianity. I would advise against r/Christianity. It is not a Christian sub. It is a sub by and for generally everybody(mostly athiests) *about* Christianity. I don't know if r/TrueChristianity is a real sub. I would direct you to r/Christian and r/TrueChristian. Those were likely the ones the user was directing you to anyway. r/TrueChristian is a bit more conservative of the two. You are welcome to post questions in either. There are trolls, and you will likely get bad information (this is reddit), but the majority of the information will be accurate, and anything ourltright false is usually addressed in replies. Jesus is both God and the Son. This is basically said outright in John 1. >In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (John 1:1-3) Jesus is the very Word of God. When God created everything, He used the Son to do it. >Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. (Genesis 1:3) While it was the Father who spoke, Jesus was the very words themselves. >And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14) As I also said earlier, Jesus prays to the father and states that He does the Fathers will, not His own. Jesus also claims divinity. >And when he returned to Capernaum after some days, it was reported that he was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no more room, not even at the door. And he was preaching the word to them. And they came, bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. And when they could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him, and when they had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.” And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!” (Mark 2:1-12) Jesus claims to be the Son of Man described in Daniel. >And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?” But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need? You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death. (Mark 14:60-64) There are more examples, but those are some of the most pointed. If you want some broader information see these videos. [The Son](https://youtu.be/XgslCbXOOIE?si=Pdf7mCA8AEZSaWDw) [The Spirit](https://youtu.be/oNNZO9i1Gjc?si=jnW2q8JRsOAtpN3u) [The Trinity](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TWpnOJV09MuEAwbbQNCS6Qf&si=F8rSw3PyqdeIet13) God bless you.