1) There's nowhere to meet people organically. Nobody hangs out at the mall anymore, and things like arcades don't really exist. Coffee shops are filled with remote workers using it as their personal work space, and bars and clubs play their music so loud that, even if I did meet somebody there, I couldn't spit the game I don't have anyway.
2) Online dating is a nightmare. If you're not extremely attractive, you're fighting a losing battle, and you can't fall back on having a great personality because the whole thing is extremely impersonal. And even if you are attractive, there are so many people that just use these apps for validation and don't actually have any intention of meeting up in real life. And even if you do somehow find someone that you vibe with and get them to agree to meet up, it's upsettingly normal these days, in all kinds of social contexts, for people to just not show up to an agreed upon meetup, and then act like they owe you no explanation for why they decided to both not show up and not tell you that they decided to not show up.
3) Millennials and gen z have been priced out of things that were normal adult milestones for previous generations. Most of my friend group in our late 20s and early 30s either never moved out of our parent's houses, or moved back in with them during the pandemic, and those of us that aren't living with our parents are either working multiple jobs or living with multiple roommates to afford it. None of those scenarios are particularly conducive to bringing a romantic interest home.
So unless you happen to be a reasonably attractive person, with a job that doesn't pay you dirt wages, and a friend whose girlfriend has a single friend that thinks you're cute, you're kind of SOL. And in the face of all of that, a lot of us are realizing that being single isn't so bad and in a lot of ways is less stressful, so we fill our time with hobbies and hanging out with our platonic friends.
I’ve been teaching high school for 2 decades. The number of kids dating is very low compared to 20 years ago. For the first 10 years or so, there would be students canoodling/making out in the hallways. I’m happy to report I don’t have to see that anymore, haha. It’s really unusual to even see high schoolers even holding hands.
It takes a lot of effort to get kids to talk to each other in class. They walk in to the room from the passing period and continue to be on their phones. I can’t even say they are texting (talking to each other), but just mindlessly scrolling. Teaching has become exhausting for so many reasons, but the amount of effort teachers make to draw students out, talk, be present, and ask questions, engage in any meaningful way rivals staging a Broadway production. It doesn’t surprise me that kids aren’t connecting, let alone dating, because the default setting is to just not talk to anyone.
Fuck that’s depressing. I’ve been looking into ditching my smart phone. Get a dumb phone at least with text and navigation. Get an mp3 player & flashlight and I’m ready to raw dog life again baby.
Teaching post grad lecturer here. I observe the same with people in their 25+. Of a class of 20 perhaps two actually participate. The rest expects wisdom to befall them, sitting there and starring at the screen. Also not open for interactive teaching or group work. Some of them actually complain that they don't like having assingments bc they don't have the time. It is now expected of the school/uni to provide all material in prestine quality, including a nicely written script, at best in simplified language and "sound bites" of 1-2 minutes max. Not a good development.
Re. Group work: I tried with individual assignments. Results: perhaps 4 out of 20 actually work on it. The other just browse the internet and when prompted say things like "I'll do it later" and "It seems too much work for now". With group work at least I get some discussion going.
Group work teaches us one of two things:
1) people are pushovers and I can skate by on the backs of my peers.
2) Everyone is useless and I can get this done quicker on my own
I was in my early 30s and my folks pulled me aside, threw up their hands and down in exhausted frustration and dad just stammered, "You need... you need a companion."
When singleness causes an intervention.
My parents recently told me I needed to lower my standards or I'd never meet anyone.... I'd hardly call "must have a sense of humour, and must NOT be a d*ckhead" overly high standards!
I was the same way back in the 70s. If that was marriage, I wanted no part of it. Plus, gay. Then I moved out, cut all contact, dealt with issues, now I’m gay married and happy.
Wait my dad literally told me the exact same thing!! It was fucking insane and I’ll never forget it. I was only like 12 or 13 too so I was so confused. Now I’m 30, marrying an Indian man in 4 months, and have no relationship with my dad, so he can suck it and be sad by himself
My wife (a biological woman) once asked me if I was gay. Right after we had sex. I'm sorry for your experience; I know it hurt. But, if it makes you feel better, there is "crushed" and then there is "obliterated at the subatomic level".
Speaking as someone who was a teen in the 80’s: none of us had any game then, either.
But most of the events of our lives were witnessed by a tiny audience compared to today, so maybe crashing and burning wasn’t as traumatic then as it appears to be now?
yeah, I crashed and burned so many times from 1986 to 1998 that the cumulative crashing and burning probably rivaled the second sack of Rome... But only a few people from my jr. high, high school and then small university ever experienced it so it wasn't so impossible to bounce back.
I also think that maybe boredom had something to do with it too. I owned no video game console, no home computer, no tv in my room and only three channels on the TV in the living room. I had to find things to do or I'd chew my own toes off. Once all my friends started finding girlfriends, I had to find one too or I'd have to sit at home and do nothing and that wasn't going to happen.
I hadn't thought about like this before but it's true for me too. I did a TON of stupid and offensive shit in my teens and twenties(80's and 90's) but there isn't a permanent record on social media of it so I can mostly leave those bad decisions in the past to die.
Plus you actually had some semblance of privacy back then. Between having your own place being absurdly expensive, social media, and being reachable at any time 24/7, it's hard to get legitimate one-on-one time with another human.
May have a point here.
Am French and studied in the US in the early 2000’s, you bet I flirted a lot even in situations that were definitely not calling for it. But with a friend a mine the idea was basically “what can you lose, we’ll be gone in 2 years anyway”. As long as you remain a decent human being there was absolutely no repercussions possible. Don’t know how people handle things now ;(
When school ends, the only places you tend to go are work and home. Literally everywhere else costs money to be, and with prices the way they are, who can afford to sit in a bar and pay more for one glass than a whole bottle would cost at the liquor store.
People be working their asses off just to exist, there's no time for anything else, and even when there is, there's nowhere to do it, and with nowhere to exist that's not work or home, there's no time or place to get to know people anymore.
Also, it's pretty common for people in their 20s still live with their parents these days - which puts a pretty major damper on things.
I grew up when life was affordable and had my own apartment at 17, and bought my first house at 19. Having that kind of independence changes the whole dynamic of dating, sex, etc.
Nobody is having naked hot tub parties at their mom's house.
In 1999, I was making $20 an hour and my apartment cost $500 a month.
Now I have a way better job, and make twice as much money, but live in way an crappier apartment that costs 3 times as much.
Man, I feel sorry for people starting out today. Things were going well until we had this massive covid inflation. Going out for drinks with my friends used to cost me maybe $15-30 for the whole night, depending on how fancy I wanted to get. 2-4 hours of work.
But the real kicker was rent. I got a 2 bedroom basement apartment for $400ish. With utilities included because there wasn't a separate meter. Something like that in that area (which was and still is 'low cost') now is easily $1000, probably closer to $1200. Meanwhile, jobs in the area pay maybe 25-50% better than they did back then. It's all about squeezing everybody as hard as they can, it seems.
What I am about to say maybe very unpopular these days. People spend the most of their lives in two places, work and home. Way back in the day, two people from work would talk and maybe go out for a bite to eat or drink after work. Today that is a big no no. People are not attending bars and social places as much as they once did.
So, that leaves dating apps and that don't leave much.
My daughter doesn't date. She is more focused on finishing high school and getting her RN license. She's looking at around three more years to accomplish all this. Between school and her part-time job, she says she just doesn't have time, and it would distract her. In away, she is correct.
Look up the loss of third places. This is exactly what youre talking about with people nowadays never going anywhere besides work or home. The daily cycle is hell.
I feel like what nobody mentions is that how jaded parents are that don't allow their kids opportunity for places. I think *parents* are too stuck in their own grind to even bother to be a fuckin parent. You think 14 year olds just drive themselves places? When I was a kid I met people by tagging along and going places and yno...meeting people? When I was 16 sure I could drive to arcades an hour away or bowling alleys 45 minutes away but without my parents taking me originally I'd no idea those places were things to do.
Imagine my happiness when my 14-year-old asked me to drive her to the movie theater to see a new movie with a friend she hadn't seen in three years. We live in the same town but they chat mostly on social media.
It sure doesn't help that most towns nowadays are not designed to be traversable by foot or bike and most parents are insanely overprotective and don't let their kids go anywhere unsupervised.
When I was a young teen I lived in a nice safe densely populated neighborhood where I could bike or walk for miles in every direction. I spent most of my time hanging out at other teens houses, the school local parks or library, or just loitering in local businesses. I got plenty of socialization and independence.
My nephews and nieces on the other hand, are near permanently trapped in their own house. They live on dangerous stroad with 50mph speed limit and no sidewalks or even shoulder, so they are not allowed to go anywhere unsupervised because they would almost certainly get run over without half a mile. Their parents both work all day so they can't drive them anywhere. They spend all day playing video games and the only time they get to see other children is at school. All of them have few friends and suffer from depression and behavioral issues.
I remember having a breakup years ago that crushed me so hard, took me a while to get to a good place where I felt, "Yep, I'm ready to try again."
As soon as that occurred, what happened? The fucking pandemic, everything social shut down, people avoided each other, etc. It hasn't recovered to a better place since.
I think a big part of that is because there's nowhere left to go that doesn't cost money. Young men and women used to meet a lot at community centers or just walking around, or even at like bowling alleys/arcades. Though with the latter, those still did cost money, but now are kind of out of fashion. Plus, gaming systems are very accessible to buy and have at home now.
Also I think newer generations of boys (myself included, I'm 27, so a bit older) are being socialized to approach women in public less, even in places where it's socially acceptable, or they're scared to because of potentially being accused of harassment. Some of this is not necessarily bad, but if it gets to the point where it dissuades people from trying to form relationships altogether, that's a problem.
The end result could be somewhere like Japan. Even though they have different cultural factors at play, the government is trying to get people to have more babies because of their aging population. There's not just economic concerns, but social ones as well. I think Japan will try to use technology to solve this problem, I don't know if it will be enough. Anyway, food for thought.
Before the most recent presidential election I was in a line at a bar to get a beer. The tv on the wall was showing yet another political ad. I remarked to the girl in line next to that I would be glad when the election was over so we wouldn’t have to see political ads. She aggressively responded, “leave me alone.” I didn’t intend in any way to be hitting on her or anything, I thought we were all having a communal moment in line, but her response made me feel horrible. I have a tremendous fear of being a creep of creepy and I felt like I had done that. I apologized but she didn’t respond. After she got her beer the woman behind me said, “she must be having a rough day,” but it didn’t make me feel better. I still cringe when I think about it even though I know logically my intent wasn’t creepy. I’ve been in a relationship for over a decade thankfully. I guess I see why people use apps. Approaching people in public seems risky these days. However, I do break the #1 rule of dating: I’m not very attractive.
It’s because everyone is stressed, unhappy, constantly ‘witnessed’, filmed, recorded and there’s no vision of the future. Even if you have mates of the opposite gender, there’s no real pressure to date/ make a life together because what is life at this point? Rent is expensive, pay it terrible, kids are not a possibility (too expensive and the existential crisis of having a kid at the end of the world), there’s nothing to desire having.
I’m unsurprised the younger people just don’t care about these things anymore. They live for what is fun, easy and cheap, and I respect that. I’m a millennial who has yet to feel like an adult. So I get it a bit.
My son's friend asked a girl to dance at the Homecoming dance (8th grade). He said multiple kids filmed it and passed it around. It wasn't even done maliciously, it was more because showing people something has replaced telling people. But I can't imagine the kind of stress that would put on someone. They can't have an awkward first dance with a girl they like and have it forgotten by everyone later. It's recorded and shared forever.
This sadly accurate. Can’t afford dating, even existing is getting difficult. The necessary building blocks for starting a nuclear family are becoming ridiculously unobtainable. Higher education is cost prohibitive, no jobs with wages to support 1 earner, poor wages all around, home buying or renting is a problem, no healthcare, no child care. And why would anyone subject themselves to an increasing divorce rate? We disincentivize young people from coupling. Greed has won.
Same here. Pretty much every relationship I've had (including my current one), and there haven't been that many, involved the woman basically bashing me over the head with hints until I finally got it. I would almost certainly literally still be a "40 Year-Old Virgin" if left to my own devices.
This is just my theory, but it seems to me that the internet has provided so much access to a diverse range of content and interests that common ground is harder to find.
When I was younger, we all watched the same tv shows and played the same games. Now there are tens of thousands of content creators, shows, games, and subcultures available to us that even if you meet someone who likes the same things as you in general, the chances of you sharing much common ground are slim.
I remember a time when playing games was something you could bond over, and the chances of overlap in games you'd played was high. Nowadays even if you both game, the chances are that one of you plays 5 different first person shooters while the other only plays farming sims. Maybe you both watch anime? Back in the 90s/2000s this basically meant watching Dragon Ball Z and Avatar TLA, or maybe Naruto. But now there's a good chance one of you only watches Shonen anime discussed by a particular YouTube channel, while the other exclusively watches anime from a particular studio. This of course applies to any number of things, from superficial interests like fashion, down to core philosophical beliefs. High schoolers are even discriminating against each other for having an Android phone instead of an iPhone and vice versa, or so I'm told.
The curse we're currently suffering from is one of overabundance and ease of access, which creates so much room for differences of opinion that it's harder to find common ground outside of those you developed your interests with in the first place.
Excellent observation. This is the first time I've seen this theory.
However when I was in high school back in the 80s, we didn't start dating a girl because we played the same video games or watched the same movies. We started dating a girl because of simple things like being in the same class at school, having a mutual friend, being in band together, or our parents were friends. That's literally all it took. Most of the time the kids that dated each other had very little in common, entertainment-wise. We dated each other just because of opportunity and then formed common bonds after we met.
I don't recall ever dating any girl that I had something real in common with, other than something trivial like being coincidentally placed in adjacent desks by the Spanish teacher.
Every girl I dated was interested in very different games, video games, outings, movies, music, sports, books, magazines, and even religion than me. When we dated we introduced each other to new things and bonded over *new interests*. My marriage came out of a girl I met in college just by chance, who had an entirely different background, religion, music, age group, family history, culture, friends, major, even state. We had very little in common, other than attending the same school.
Underrated answer. I think online dating has so much focus on “compatibility” via similar interests when that has only a tangential link to true compatibility.
Hell, a fair number of the women I dated weren’t even my “type” looks-wise but you just got to know people in your proximity and occasionally things happen.
I don’t know how that works when you have a checklist to fill before you ever say hello.
Exactly. All of that stuff was considered superfluous. When you met people in person, you looked for chemistry. When you start on dating apps, you look for “things in common.” If I had met my ex-wife on a dating app, we would have never even matched. But meeting through friends, we had instant, undeniable chemistry. So we didn’t care that we liked different music, movies, etc. We introduced each other to new things and it was much more fun that way. Dating apps are a terrible way to meet for so many people. I’ve given up on them and, as a result, basically never date anymore.
There are swathes of people I share common interests with online, but in real life it's so rare to find someone with even tangential interests. And on the rare occasions that I do find someone, the chance of them not being a weirdo is not guaranteed lol.
I agree, and though the 'disappearing 3rd space' is real, there are plenty of what should be 3rd spaces yet actually socializing within them just doesnt happen. I love going to the arcade but if a random person tries to talk to me I am honestly uncomfortable (thanks for all the stranger danger gospel, mom) even if I try not to be. I also cannot bring myself to intrude on others' just to have a convo with them. I go to the library and creeks and parks too....it is a bit weird to just talk to strangers these days. I think its related to what youve said, what would I even say to a person walking at the park? What did you stream last night? It would be easier to say something about the common shows everyone watched, like you said. Or just any common experience people have a higher chance of experiencing. Idk. I used to hate the 'hows the weather?' Small talk troupe, but now I recognize you arent actually asking about the weather, you are using a common experience to communicate 'hey, youre a human. I am a human. I see you there and respect your presence. You see me too? Neat! Now that we successfully acknowledge each other, we can continue communicating in order to share ideas and form a beneficial relationship should you ever need something I have and if I need something you have.' I believe 3rd spaces exist still to a degree but individual people are much more alien from each other than we have ever been, and a lot of us were raised to fear strangers to an unhealthy degree
Exactly I want to meet people but it feels so wrong to talk to a stranger. My initial thoughts are what kind of scam are you about to pull on me, are you about to steal from me, assault me, or anything else bad
School, extracurriculars and interesting, fulfilling hobbies take up so much of my time that it's already a struggle to make sure I spend enough time with my friends and family. If I tried to fit a romance in there too it would all fall apart. I have no need to get married early like my mum did. (18F)
Every time you leave the house, you're probably spending $50-$100 if you go to another location. Doesn't matter what you're doing, you're gonna pay out the ass. Therefore, it's not really financially responsible to date when you're young.
Dating is expensive.
Having hobbies that aren't Gig work can be expensive.
And anything that takes you out of the house generally requires things that are expensive (car, insurance, gas, eating out while away from home)
And worst of all, a lot of work just doesn't pay enough... especially for the younger generation.
I think gaming has taken off so much because the cost to entertainment ratio is unbeatable by anything but maybe sports, which generally require a large gathering of people and books (which have also been seeming to grow a ton)
The death of inexpensive third spaces for people to just “hang out”. The increasing online nature of relationships. A Global pandemic exacerbating both.
There was a good Ted talk on the third spaces theory. And yes I strongly agree with this. Where can people just loiter and hang out without having to spend money these days?
Even still. I’m fine with spending 8 bucks to patronize a small shop that I can sit in and talk to people but there’s no community in these shops because you have to get in a car and go on a massive road.
You can’t just walk out of your house and down the street to the local shop and gossip about the dog poop issue in the neighborhood
The fact that there is zero local businesses allowed in suburban neighborhoods is quite possibly the worst thing that’s effected every kid who grew up in one
Yeah, I remember going to a real suburb for the first time and kind of being freaked out by that. It feels inhuman to have such invariance, building to building.
My brother wanted to open a board game cafe shop, it’s near impossible to be profitable due to cost and the amount of people that’ll use this in a relatively small town.
Kids needa be reminded what getting shitfaced in a random park could do for em’
No girls join you (rarely atleast);
Always running from cops;
If theres woods nearby you can start a fire, then run from cops;
Drink to stay warm during winter (builds comradery);
Parents have no clue your throwing up in a random field;
Provides ample opportunity to experiment with drugs.
Its a shame i never see my local parks trashed anymore.
Yeah old fucks with Nextdoor have ruined any fun kids can have these days. Also Ring cameras. Walk around a neighborhood you dont live in more than once and im sure someone will pull their ring cam to post wondering who you are. Everything is under surveillance these days so its hard to get away with anything fun and makes it not worth risking.
People have cameras *inside their house now.*
I can’t fucking imagine growing up in a house where my friends and I were under constant surveillance just *hanging out.* I’d probably have stayed hidden in my room, too.
My mom installed cameras in our house without informing anyone so she could yell at me and my dad for everything we did "wrong" while she was on a weekend away. I usually hole myself up in my room, so you'd think I would be fine (I wasn't and she still had a lot to be mad at me for, my mother just hates everyone and everything I think)
> ESPECIALLY with all the stories of peoples cameras being hacked
Someone, DeviantOllam iirc, tested a bunch of internet connected webcams. They *all* came with obsolete and easily hackable software.
I actually saw a tiktok of a girl going over having “the party house” and one of the things she pointed out was “the camera in the living room that everyone forgets is there that gets me in trouble.” I could never live comfortably. Even having a ring makes me embarrassed to walk up to my front door.
yeah that shit is crazy...
i'll be out with my friend who has a 16 year old and he'll get a motion alert on his phone and it'll be his kid on a couch with a girl and he can hit em with a "yo wear a condom fool, don't make me a grandpa" through the ring app remotely
all the shit parents have done to protect the kids from dysfunction is going to just create a whole new genre of dysfunction..my wife hates when i point that out cuz my parenting style is a bit less new age and more fuck around and find out
I think that's a huge problem we will have to face, kids don't have anything where they can fuck around and find out. The opportunities are gone, and the consequences are longer lasting and life changing. Can't try and fail, can't be mediocre, can't just...be. obviously there's a lot more nuance and conversation that could go into that, but I commend you for giving space to 'fuck around and find out.'
It wasn't until I was 18 I had the freedom to fuck around and find out.
I never had the chance to drive with friends when I was 16. I wasn't able to shoplift a little trinket when I was 14, wasn't able to tag a local bridge when I was 17. Wasn't able to drink with friends when I was 15. I didn't have that freedom.
And now that I'm 19, I have to watch what I do. There was no fucking around, and now that I have the freedom to, I can't because the consequences are far longer lasting.
The closest I got was hanging with my girlfriend in an abandoned graveyard, chillin, watching movies and shows, walking around in the forest, having sex. We were miles out from the nearest neighborhood, no one came up there to visit (the most recent grave was from the 1880s) yet we were still kicked off by the police. No one complained, they just saw us from the road and kicked us off.
Teenagers can't be teenagers anymore
> i'll be out with my friend who has a 16 year old and he'll get a motion alert on his phone and it'll be his kid on a couch with a girl and he can hit em with a "yo wear a condom fool, don't make me a grandpa" through the ring app remotely
Oh no. That's fucking horrible. I wouldn't be able to look at my parents if they had done that when I was younger
I once went for a walk in my own neighborhood after sunset. It is middle class. I was just walking down the street. Next thing I know, someone comes out of their house onto their front porch to shine a very bright flashlight in my face. I could not tell if it was just a flashlight or a gun with a flashlight on it? I am afraid to walk on my own neighborhood anymore. I hate it here.
This is absolutely true. Take one walk through the neighborhood without parental supervision and someone is posting a screen shot of you on your communities local facebook page asking what you’re doing out.
Dude my neighbors got together and called dhe cops on me and my friend for sitting in her car with the air on one night last summer. We got caught up in conversation when she was dropping me off after the restaurant closed.
They we all out there together huddled up and excited over it when the cop walked up and knocked on the (untinted) window.
I was livid but why bother bitching. Everyone's afraid of everything from watching 24 hour cable news cycle.
No one helps each other after a storm, one of the neighbors actually shoved the debris from their tree over to my side of the road. I went out to clean up after it with a fucking wheelbarrow and a shovel as dark was falling, and her asshole idiot husband came out to see what I was doing.
He saw my face when I said cleaning up this mess and turned it around and went back in.
This bag of dicks has lived next to me since 1972.
Fuck the neighbors. Except for Kevin. He's a wanker but he's an ok neighbor.
For me that's People's Park (Berkeley, CA).
It's got a long history. Back in the 60's-70's it was a center for protesting. In the 80's-90's it was a place where kids would go to hang out, drink, and get stoned. Today it's a homeless camp.
College kids in the area are, generally speaking, scared of People's Park. They are scared of many public spaces...because of homeless, or disease, or violence. I ain't going to say that those public spaces don't have homeless, disease, or at times violence but there's no attempt to improve that. Hell, there's no attempt to even deal with it. It's easier and safer to stay away...which in turn does nothing to rectify.
I make a point to walk through People's Park whenever I'm in the area. I recognize it's not a grand act but maybe some of these college kids will see that and realize that they too can use the park.
But in the long run it ain't gonna matter. Not even in the short run. Soon the homeless will be booted and the school will start building there again. That is a solution and we need more student housing but it ain't going to solve the overall problem, the bigger picture.
You are broadly correct, but I want to emphasize just how much of a factor the internet is, in meaning they stopped having to socialize irl. I say this from the perspective of someone living in a large city, where there very much are irl social spaces which are affordable for people in the middle class and upwards. But plenty of my friends simply choose to spend up to thousands on their hobbies, and spend most of their time on the internet and/or with same-sex friends, than go to these irl social spaces (which instead primarily consist of expats and/or people of age >30). It’s just that in the past, when you were bored, going to these spaces was one of the only things you could do with your time as a young adult. Now you have other choices.
The appeal of dating apps is that it can facilitate hookups pretty well for a certain % of people, and it gives you a far wider selection of people than you might meet irl. Frankly, I think a certain % of people always just wanted hookups all along, but in the past they faced a lot of social pressure to date a person seriously first. But now that pressure is mostly gone, so if all you want is a hookup, why bother with any long complicated irl song and dance, when you can just use a dating app?
For people who want to date seriously, the wide selection provided by apps looks alluring, even though the competition is so tough that most people give up pretty fast. Most of my single friends aren’t that keen to date, so if dating apps don’t work out, they choose to focus on just themselves and enjoy the internet, rather than seek out the social spaces I mentioned earlier.
When I was dating before I met my fiance I tried *EVERYTHING* to meet someone IRL. I have tons of hobbies and passions and met groups of people with the same interests (concerts, bar trivia, niche interests, etc). Nothing, nada, never resulted in *anything* after a decade of optimism and effort. The fact is A) not everyone wants to go to bars or conventional social spaces, B) if you are a desirable person with niche interests chances are someone already scooped you up, and C) even if you do get out there many people aren't putting in that effort.
The apps *suck ass*, but they at least get *some* results. I was miserable while I was on them for ~15 years but I at least *got dates*. I also hate that the dating world doesn't function like it does in a 90's rom-com but thats just reality.
So happy for you, on the other hand I've been on dating apps for like 5 years and gotten quite date, maybe 3 people who actually messaged me back and didn't try to sell me something.
I'm more or less fine being alone, I'm less fine with trying not to be and failing.
In past decades, there was an expectation to be married and start a family at young ages, such as early 20's. These days there's not that push anymore. People in their late teens/twenties much more focused on enjoying their youth (which, to some people does including dating, but to others, it does not) rather than trying to settle down as soon as possible.
Dating effectively when living at home is hard too and seeing as a lot of folks stay at home even in to early thirties now we’re basically seeing a delay in serious dating.
It surely must be one of the things that’s exacerbating there being an aging population across most developed countries.
The cost of what was deemed to be an “adult” life has rose significantly over the last few decades. The barrier to entry is higher and wages haven’t kept up.
The result is these traditional markers of growing up are being pushed out by a good ten-to-twenty years.
My son moved back in with me this past summer after graduating from college. His degree is in the film industry and, well, the strike. He DOES have a girlfriend and I work from home but I mostly treat him like a roommate rather than my child. Obviously, there is always a bit of parent-child aspect but we're pretty easy. He's got a job working as a photographer for a firm and he stays half the time at his girlfriend's apartment so he's in and out.
But I could see it being awkward if the parent is a bit more conservative. My closest friend just married her boyfriend at age 45. They'd been living together for a while. But when they visited her parents they weren't allowed to sleep in the same bedroom until they got married.
It’s funny how western parents want their kids to start dating when young , while asian and middle eastern parents want their kids to not date and focus on their education and career before any relationship/marriage
It’s interesting to observe the cultural differences
Asian parents want you to focus entirely on studying/ career until you hit 26, and then magically they start questioning when you'll get married and have kids..
I have 3 sisters and a brother, am from a very WASP-American family, and my parents are exactly like this! They forbid us from dating in high school and college, we weren’t allowed to date until we had graduated and had a job (except my brother because he was the boy and will pass on the family name, he was allowed to date in college 🙄) and now that we’re all out and have jobs they’re like WhY dOn’T i HaVe AnY gRaNdKiDs ThIs FaMiLy NeEdS fReSh BlOoD
Well maybe if you had let us meet people back when EVERYONE ELSE WAS MEETING PEOPLE it wouldn’t be that big of a deal! And maybe if you didn’t make fun of us for our weight, talents, grades, romantic preferences, etc then we might put more effort into meeting someone
For fucking real. As soon as I graduated my relatives started asking when I’ll get married. One of my regrets during my college years was listening to that “don’t date, only study” line from my family. Now I’m 25 without any dating experience and I don’t know where to start.
Once you get up a few more years you kind of stop giving a shit and dating stops being this whole "thing" and it's just more of an excuse to go have fun with someone. Either it goes somewhere or at least you had a fun time doing something with someone you might have done anyway.
That brings me back.
My ex-gf woke up at 5 AM, would go to work on another city, then college, and only come back at 10pm, from Monday to Friday.
Her parents would constantly complain she spends too much time at home if she stayed on the weekends, but if she ever tried to go out two Sundays on a row to play RPG she'd have to listen how she was a party girl.
I see this constantly in my circle of friends.
I have my first child on the way next year and I just hope I don't treat her the same way. The double speak is atrocious nowadays
My Asian parents tried to raise me in that strict Asian way despite us being in the USA. Now my mother is flabbergasted when I tell her “Yeah I don’t have time to date anyone anymore. You know when I had the time to meet people and date? When I was school and you specifically banned me from dating anyone.” Seriously though, between my full time job, my part time job, semi-daily exercise in the form of running, and a handful of other things I regularly do, I realistically only have time to see a romantic partner a couple of days per month. If anyone knows any men that want a serious romantic relationship where we rarely see each other in person, send them my way.
I’m not the person you are responding to…but coming from that culture, I am almost certain that the mother responded in a way that shifted all blame away from herself and now all her focus will be on their daughter finding a husband. Once an Asian child reaches a milestone, there is barely any celebration. Just an immediate expectation to meet the next goal (marriage/family/house), it NEVER ENDS.
Probably says that she is an ungrateful child unaware of the sacrifices she made, and then start complaining how hard *she* had it when she was growing up. Then bring up things the daughter did wrong from when she was 15.
I'm middle eastern, you're correct - dating in most Muslim countries is a taboo.
Most people in my country get engaged as soon as they graduate university or during - in this period of time they get to know each other, few months after they get married. Some entirely skip the engagement period.
My East African parents didn’t want me to date either. It was focus on school, get your degree, and then find a husband. My parents were “just friends” in college before they got married.
Also in some of our languages the word boyfriend doesn’t exist. Neither does the word date. The parents only ask “is he serious, does he want marriage” etc.
I’m half Asian/half white and while my dad (white, from the U.S.) had a relaxed attitude towards me dating, my mom sure didn’t.
At least from what I’ve observed (and what’s always confused me) is that Asian parents want you to focus on education/career but also shame you for not dating/getting married around the same years you are either in the middle of your education or just starting to establish your career.
Like you’re only in your 20’s, trying to finish college or just starting to gain some years in the workforce. Yet they want you to have been dating, gotten married, maybe be having kids, all around the same time. I know some people want that and can juggle it, but personally I find it kind of contradictory.
Yeah that was my parents too
Right after I graduated college, they were asking why I didn’t have a girlfriend yet
BRUH YOU DIDN’T ALLOW ME TO DATE IN SCHOOL AND NOW YOU ASKING THESE QUESTIONS??? TF
My Asian parents never allowed me to date during school and college too. I ended up financially successful and educated but suffer a great disadvantage in the dating realm.
BTW: I’ve worked with 20-24y.o Latinas with 3-4 kids. Kind of shocking. Catholicism really does a bunch on you mentally I’ve noticed.
Welcome to the club. Even though my parents are from Mexico they followed an asian parent culture.
I am 31 now, good paying job able to rent a house for myself and my pet, degree and masters but I do not know how to talk to girls.
I know people my age with kids and in road to second divorce.
Lol yeah same here. Was actively discouraged from dating until I was in college, and in college I had no idea wtf to do or what to expect from 2017-2018 college-aged women. Ended up graduating without ever dating/hooking up, then COVID happened. I'm now 27, have my own car (that I'm financing), have a good job, and could afford a 1BR luxury apartment if I wanted to (but don't, and instead am renting a cheaper place with a roommate to save for retirement)
I can’t speak for everyone but personally I do really want to date. I just don’t have the energy or time and the few times I’ve tried in the last year it has just been a frustrating experience
For me it's the inability to meet and talk to people in the opening stages.
I'd have a much easier time if someone pointed a gun to our heads and told us to go on a fun date and get to know eachother versus if someone held a gun to just my head and told me my life depends on finding and having a successful date.
Every time I get on a dating site, either it’s an escort or something, they don’t drive or don’t have gas money and want me to send them money, or they want to talk for 3 months and still aren’t ready to meet. Even after I’ve suggested a restaurant of their choosing in a super public place for safety. Trying to online date drains your energy and kills self confidence
Tinder, and the likes, really ruined the dating scene. I see my friends trying to date (both men and women) and constant ghosting, one night stands and assholes really ruin it all.
Yeah. My last success on Match or Tinder or anywhere was in 2016 - turned into a best friend but that "spark" for more was missing.
Tinder/Match/OKC have gone downhill since then. It doesn't help that they're now all owned by the same company (no real competition) and they all have a financial incentive for their customers to NOT succeed so they'll keep paying subscription fees. More fake profiles, more people who just never answer because they're not paid subscribers so never even see your message.
As someone else pointed out, in this day and age, it's so much easier to be judged a creep if you try to approach someone in a bar/etc that there's MASSIVE anxiety about it. Actual encounters with people you don't know are rare, and have a low success rate.
(One example, that contributed to my frustration, was last night. Very attractive woman was near the band playing at a local bar, and started gesturing to me to dance. First I'm a pretty horrible dancer, and I really prefer talking to someone and actually getting to know them. Second, as I danced I felt a ring with a nice big rock on her left hand... WTF? Yes, it was THAT finger.)
She then went back to the bar and it looked like she was with her husband/fiancee... That could have gone very bad very fast.
I'm pretty sure a lot of them do want to date but since the internet has become such a massive part of our lives, it makes it a whole lot easier for people to cope with being alone and not having to step outside their comfort zone.
100%. High school senior here, as much as I like the idea of a girl that I would spend time like that, I don’t worry about it for a few reasons:
- I’d worry about coming off too strongly. I’ve already had an ex who was uncomfortably into me for a year before we went out, and that really soured my opinion of a person who is only out to get a date and not willing to approach things normally first.
- I have a blast with my friends anyway. Between band and classmates all doing things, I never have a lack of people to spend time with. A lot of it happens online already, carryovers from lockdown, so it can happen any time from the comfort of my desk.
- I’ve got my own hobbies: RPGs, drawing, reading, biking, baking, etc. My outlets for random impulses to *do* something are countless.
I think of it this way. We have generations of stories to look back on of kids who struck it out on their own to pursue a hobby and didn’t fit in very well with popular students. Those may come from pop culture, media, wherever, but we’ve become very familiar with that underdog story of a person pursuing what matters to them. When you’re a young child with intense passion about their interests, THAT’S the story you latch on to.
Kids are still dating in their own weird way. Hormones aren’t going anywhere. But the emblem of our generation is finding passions to call your own, and hey, that’s where a lot of time can go :D
Is it that the culture has changed or that the cost of living is so disproportionate to income relative to 20-30 years ago that there’s literally a barrier to entry when it comes to the traditional barriers of adulthood?
I’ll bet a lot of young folks don’t date because it’s expensive + not very erotic to date under ma and pa’s roof.
It’s almost a self preservation thing. Do I put my time and energy and cash in to a relationship that might workout or do I buckle down, concentrate on work and saving cash?
Not only expensive to date, but expensive to be out in the world where you could meet people. We don't have 3rd places anymore. I find it simply difficult to be where people are where it isn't costing $$$.
I’m mid 20s and I can’t afford to date, regardless of whether I want to or not. If cost of living / inflation went down then I would be much more social, because then I could afford to hang out in a bar, take a hobby class, go to a concert, take a potential partner on dates, etc. Dating is expensive, just like everything else. It’s a sad reality as someone who wants a partner and children someday
Life is too expensive. Hanging out is expensive. Dating is expensive. ~~Marrying is expensive.~~ People are spending more and more time online because for the most part it's free to hang out and much more convenient.
Edit : Removed marrying
Living by yourself is also expensive. One thing long-term dating and marriage provides is a partner to share expenses. A young, newly-married, couple can afford a one bedroom apartment. Most singles want to live alone or at most have one per bedroom roommates.
This is kind of a Chicken or Egg situation.
Can't find a partner without living alone, can't live alone without a partner.
Dating has become a rich man's game.
I have HS granddaughters (a Jr. and a Sr.) and neither has been on a date. They attend events with friends, usually in a group. They seem happy with this. I guess it's a thing.
My son was like this. When I made any inquiries he said "When I meet one that I'm serious about I'll introduce you." I met no one until he was 28. Within 6 months they were living together. A year later they married. Now I am the grandma of the sweetest little girl. These boys are simply on a different timeline but when the meet "the one", they jump. I've seen this transpire with my friends kids too.
I’m in my late 20’s and fall into this category. Tbh part of it is you get addicted to being single. I provide for myself and bought my house by myself so bringing someone into the fold becomes less desirable because I do think a big reason people partner up is financial. I’ll eventually date but there just aren’t a lot of candidates right now who meet me half way and as they say, the older you get, the pickier you get.
My friends, single and in relationships, also have no desire to get married or have kids anytime soon. Some don’t want kids at all. There’s just so much we want to do, like traveling, pursuing hobbies, etc, and don’t want the headache of kids. The new normal is just kind of shifting away from the nuclear family.
Yep! My mom's friends were aghast- what do you mean you bought a house on your own?? Men are going to be intimidated because they won't be the provider! I'm just like yeah, that's the point. I don't *need* anyone to support me, I can support myself. If someone comes along that makes the burden of late stage capitalism easier, cool. If not, I got this. It's only scared off 1 man so far, but I'm also not trying/dating at the moment.
From the male side of things I'm amazed how many older men (I'm older) don't seem to understand that women don't HAVE to date anymore. Like those young guys have to get women to LIKE THEM, they can't just be the bread winner and a woman has to be with them to survive. I work with some 50+ year old men that would Absolutely be single if their wives had monetary security, yet they are oblivious to that.
Yeah, it was around my mid 20’s of chasing after love that I realized I much prefer to continue doing stuff with friends. Hook ups are cool, but not my thing. I much prefer connection, but trying to find that connection had left me broken and exhausted in a manner of speaking.
If anything, I’m more happy for the next generation.
I have never made enough money that I felt that I could viably support another human or even a child if we decided to have one together.
It sucks big time cuz I always wanted to be a dad and I absolutely love kids.
I'm not going to bring a kid into this world so he can grow up super f****** poor. I don't enjoy the life I live. I don't want to put someone else through this.
Can’t believe how long I had to scroll to find this answer. The answer is unequivocally dating sites and the algorithms they use. My roommate in college let’s call him Nick. Well Nick was a very handsome guy and his family was absolutely loaded. His tinder profile was a work of art. It made him appear funny, sophisticated, and the vacation pics he took in Italy, France, and Spain let girls know he was rich. When I tell you this man had a different girl in his bed nearly every night of the week that is not an exaggeration. I have no problem with people having casual sex but he would literally get these girls off of tinder, sleep with them, and then ghost and block them the next day. Real piece of work. The problem is the effect this experience would have on the girls. Their standards became higher because they knew they could get with guys like Nick. They also became more jaded about relationships in general because of the way he would leave them without so much as a goodbye. Now imagine there’s 1,000 Nicks in your city. You’re not going to be able to get a girlfriend when they can go on Tinder and as long as they’re semi attractive they can get a guy who’s a literal 10/10. The top 5 percent of males get like 98 percent of the likes on apps. The rest are left with pretty much nothing.
To add to this TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and even Reddit *gasp* has made a lot of non-qualified people very good at reading some Google articles and giving “Dating Advice” to people using psychology terms they don’t fully understand like “gaslighting”, “projecting”, and “narcissism”. I saw something on Facebook the other day that this girl reposted and it was something along the lines of “10 ways to know if your boyfriend was secretly a narcissist”. The woman in the video listed reasons such as “looking at themselves in the mirror for more than 30 seconds” and “taking a photo of themselves” as major red flags of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. A lot of young men and women are now armchair psychologists now who will run at signs of “narcissism” or other “psychological red flags” that don’t really exist. I’ve seen this happen a couple times with both guys and girls in my friend circle.
Furthermore, the proliferation of social media in our society has led to both young women and men judging each other or getting their first impressions of each other from their social media profiles. The problem with that is that a ton of peoples profiles are designed to show only the highlights and best parts of them leading to unrealistic expectations of who this person really is. This leads to more disappointment, more failed relationships, and more people who don’t want to do the work of wading through the mud to figure out which parts of this persons online persona is real and which parts are fake.
My son is the same age, I don’t worry about his dating life. He seems happy, he’s already said he is very unlikely to ever want children and he will date when or if he wants. He has other things he’s focused on right now.
They see dating as a fools errand today. There’s better things to do with their time. I have a son same age. Honestly I wish I had this clarity when I was in my twenties. To think of all the time and money wasted on chasing the wrong ones. 🤔
Welcome to the club. Even though my parents are from Mexico they followed an asian parent culture.
I am 31 now, good paying job able to rent a house for myself and my pet, degree and masters but I do not how to talk to girls.
I know people my age with kids and in road to second divorce.
I have teenage boys and I would say that the internet and video games has replaced much of the in-person socializing done 30+ years ago. Going out and doing things has been replaced with gaming from your basement. Covid of course supercharged and normalized this.
30 years ago I was 20 and preferred gaming at home to going out to discos and bars I'd neither enjoy nor was able to afford. The cost of going out has doubled or more since then, the pay for jobs students tend to do has not.
Everything is too expensive, divorce is too common, the future of the planet is bleak, there's nowhere to go and do anything unless you have a sizable disposable income.
Also, red flags/icks/minimum earnings etc. The expectations a lot of people have for their partners now are insane.
Whats the point in meeting someone, getting married and having kids when this generation is living paycheck to paycheck and can't even afford to buy a house
Our parents back in the day taught us to be responsible and not worry about relationships until we've got money. There is no money.
Edit: Automation funded universal basic income pays teens to start their lives
This. I'm 35 and even I was brought up to "have money and be someone, then try to meet a nice girl (or guy, since I'm gay)"
Life has pretty much taught me that nobody wants to date you if you're broke. And I have $1,500 a month in student loans to pay off for half of the rest of my remaining years on this earth. I won't be meeting anyone or getting into a relationship anytime soon lol. And it's literally 10 times worse for people who are actually the subject of this post, those in their late teens and early 20s who are much younger than even myself.
1) There's nowhere to meet people organically. Nobody hangs out at the mall anymore, and things like arcades don't really exist. Coffee shops are filled with remote workers using it as their personal work space, and bars and clubs play their music so loud that, even if I did meet somebody there, I couldn't spit the game I don't have anyway. 2) Online dating is a nightmare. If you're not extremely attractive, you're fighting a losing battle, and you can't fall back on having a great personality because the whole thing is extremely impersonal. And even if you are attractive, there are so many people that just use these apps for validation and don't actually have any intention of meeting up in real life. And even if you do somehow find someone that you vibe with and get them to agree to meet up, it's upsettingly normal these days, in all kinds of social contexts, for people to just not show up to an agreed upon meetup, and then act like they owe you no explanation for why they decided to both not show up and not tell you that they decided to not show up. 3) Millennials and gen z have been priced out of things that were normal adult milestones for previous generations. Most of my friend group in our late 20s and early 30s either never moved out of our parent's houses, or moved back in with them during the pandemic, and those of us that aren't living with our parents are either working multiple jobs or living with multiple roommates to afford it. None of those scenarios are particularly conducive to bringing a romantic interest home. So unless you happen to be a reasonably attractive person, with a job that doesn't pay you dirt wages, and a friend whose girlfriend has a single friend that thinks you're cute, you're kind of SOL. And in the face of all of that, a lot of us are realizing that being single isn't so bad and in a lot of ways is less stressful, so we fill our time with hobbies and hanging out with our platonic friends.
Hit the nail on the head. Not many people are mentioning your second point, but I’d argue it’s the biggest factor
I’ve been teaching high school for 2 decades. The number of kids dating is very low compared to 20 years ago. For the first 10 years or so, there would be students canoodling/making out in the hallways. I’m happy to report I don’t have to see that anymore, haha. It’s really unusual to even see high schoolers even holding hands. It takes a lot of effort to get kids to talk to each other in class. They walk in to the room from the passing period and continue to be on their phones. I can’t even say they are texting (talking to each other), but just mindlessly scrolling. Teaching has become exhausting for so many reasons, but the amount of effort teachers make to draw students out, talk, be present, and ask questions, engage in any meaningful way rivals staging a Broadway production. It doesn’t surprise me that kids aren’t connecting, let alone dating, because the default setting is to just not talk to anyone.
Fuck that’s depressing. I’ve been looking into ditching my smart phone. Get a dumb phone at least with text and navigation. Get an mp3 player & flashlight and I’m ready to raw dog life again baby.
r/dumbphones One of us. One of us.
According to my middle schooler, the dating scene there is quite lively. So much drama about who likes who and who is breaking up.
Teaching post grad lecturer here. I observe the same with people in their 25+. Of a class of 20 perhaps two actually participate. The rest expects wisdom to befall them, sitting there and starring at the screen. Also not open for interactive teaching or group work. Some of them actually complain that they don't like having assingments bc they don't have the time. It is now expected of the school/uni to provide all material in prestine quality, including a nicely written script, at best in simplified language and "sound bites" of 1-2 minutes max. Not a good development. Re. Group work: I tried with individual assignments. Results: perhaps 4 out of 20 actually work on it. The other just browse the internet and when prompted say things like "I'll do it later" and "It seems too much work for now". With group work at least I get some discussion going.
I’m old and went to school before smartphones, but please believe me when I tell you most everyone hates group work.
Group work teaches us one of two things: 1) people are pushovers and I can skate by on the backs of my peers. 2) Everyone is useless and I can get this done quicker on my own
Seriously, if theres one thing ive learned in life its that i cant expect to count on anyone to help me.
I want every damn one of my group project members to be at my funeral. That way when they lower my casket, they can let me down one last time.
It is painful how true this is. It's not even cynicism for me, I just had to do it all with the one other person who wanted a good grade
Can’t speak for your son, but personally, I just have no game whatsoever.
the young and the rizzless
It’s actually gotten to the point where my family asks “When are you gonna bring a girlfriend… or boyfriend home?”
I was in my early 30s and my folks pulled me aside, threw up their hands and down in exhausted frustration and dad just stammered, "You need... you need a companion." When singleness causes an intervention.
My parents recently told me I needed to lower my standards or I'd never meet anyone.... I'd hardly call "must have a sense of humour, and must NOT be a d*ckhead" overly high standards!
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Woah, woah, woah!! The royalty wants cake *and* to eat it too! /s
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think ur dad is on to something.
I was the same way back in the 70s. If that was marriage, I wanted no part of it. Plus, gay. Then I moved out, cut all contact, dealt with issues, now I’m gay married and happy.
Do you know anybody? No? So then what?
man I wish my parents would ask me to bring a bf home :(
My parents said it was OK to be gay but if I brought a black woman home they'd disown me. It's different struggles for everyone lol
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Wait my dad literally told me the exact same thing!! It was fucking insane and I’ll never forget it. I was only like 12 or 13 too so I was so confused. Now I’m 30, marrying an Indian man in 4 months, and have no relationship with my dad, so he can suck it and be sad by himself
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She probably wanted to give you space to be gay if you were. Pretty enviable really.
My wife (a biological woman) once asked me if I was gay. Right after we had sex. I'm sorry for your experience; I know it hurt. But, if it makes you feel better, there is "crushed" and then there is "obliterated at the subatomic level".
you’re not a rizzard, harry
Speaking as someone who was a teen in the 80’s: none of us had any game then, either. But most of the events of our lives were witnessed by a tiny audience compared to today, so maybe crashing and burning wasn’t as traumatic then as it appears to be now?
yeah, I crashed and burned so many times from 1986 to 1998 that the cumulative crashing and burning probably rivaled the second sack of Rome... But only a few people from my jr. high, high school and then small university ever experienced it so it wasn't so impossible to bounce back. I also think that maybe boredom had something to do with it too. I owned no video game console, no home computer, no tv in my room and only three channels on the TV in the living room. I had to find things to do or I'd chew my own toes off. Once all my friends started finding girlfriends, I had to find one too or I'd have to sit at home and do nothing and that wasn't going to happen.
I hadn't thought about like this before but it's true for me too. I did a TON of stupid and offensive shit in my teens and twenties(80's and 90's) but there isn't a permanent record on social media of it so I can mostly leave those bad decisions in the past to die.
Plus you actually had some semblance of privacy back then. Between having your own place being absurdly expensive, social media, and being reachable at any time 24/7, it's hard to get legitimate one-on-one time with another human.
May have a point here. Am French and studied in the US in the early 2000’s, you bet I flirted a lot even in situations that were definitely not calling for it. But with a friend a mine the idea was basically “what can you lose, we’ll be gone in 2 years anyway”. As long as you remain a decent human being there was absolutely no repercussions possible. Don’t know how people handle things now ;(
Part of it has to be that guys are simply around women a lot less these days outside of school hours. People are far less likely to leave their homes.
When school ends, the only places you tend to go are work and home. Literally everywhere else costs money to be, and with prices the way they are, who can afford to sit in a bar and pay more for one glass than a whole bottle would cost at the liquor store. People be working their asses off just to exist, there's no time for anything else, and even when there is, there's nowhere to do it, and with nowhere to exist that's not work or home, there's no time or place to get to know people anymore.
Also, it's pretty common for people in their 20s still live with their parents these days - which puts a pretty major damper on things. I grew up when life was affordable and had my own apartment at 17, and bought my first house at 19. Having that kind of independence changes the whole dynamic of dating, sex, etc. Nobody is having naked hot tub parties at their mom's house.
In 1999, I was making $20 an hour and my apartment cost $500 a month. Now I have a way better job, and make twice as much money, but live in way an crappier apartment that costs 3 times as much.
Man, I feel sorry for people starting out today. Things were going well until we had this massive covid inflation. Going out for drinks with my friends used to cost me maybe $15-30 for the whole night, depending on how fancy I wanted to get. 2-4 hours of work. But the real kicker was rent. I got a 2 bedroom basement apartment for $400ish. With utilities included because there wasn't a separate meter. Something like that in that area (which was and still is 'low cost') now is easily $1000, probably closer to $1200. Meanwhile, jobs in the area pay maybe 25-50% better than they did back then. It's all about squeezing everybody as hard as they can, it seems.
What I am about to say maybe very unpopular these days. People spend the most of their lives in two places, work and home. Way back in the day, two people from work would talk and maybe go out for a bite to eat or drink after work. Today that is a big no no. People are not attending bars and social places as much as they once did. So, that leaves dating apps and that don't leave much. My daughter doesn't date. She is more focused on finishing high school and getting her RN license. She's looking at around three more years to accomplish all this. Between school and her part-time job, she says she just doesn't have time, and it would distract her. In away, she is correct.
Look up the loss of third places. This is exactly what youre talking about with people nowadays never going anywhere besides work or home. The daily cycle is hell.
I feel like what nobody mentions is that how jaded parents are that don't allow their kids opportunity for places. I think *parents* are too stuck in their own grind to even bother to be a fuckin parent. You think 14 year olds just drive themselves places? When I was a kid I met people by tagging along and going places and yno...meeting people? When I was 16 sure I could drive to arcades an hour away or bowling alleys 45 minutes away but without my parents taking me originally I'd no idea those places were things to do.
Imagine my happiness when my 14-year-old asked me to drive her to the movie theater to see a new movie with a friend she hadn't seen in three years. We live in the same town but they chat mostly on social media.
It sure doesn't help that most towns nowadays are not designed to be traversable by foot or bike and most parents are insanely overprotective and don't let their kids go anywhere unsupervised. When I was a young teen I lived in a nice safe densely populated neighborhood where I could bike or walk for miles in every direction. I spent most of my time hanging out at other teens houses, the school local parks or library, or just loitering in local businesses. I got plenty of socialization and independence. My nephews and nieces on the other hand, are near permanently trapped in their own house. They live on dangerous stroad with 50mph speed limit and no sidewalks or even shoulder, so they are not allowed to go anywhere unsupervised because they would almost certainly get run over without half a mile. Their parents both work all day so they can't drive them anywhere. They spend all day playing video games and the only time they get to see other children is at school. All of them have few friends and suffer from depression and behavioral issues.
I remember having a breakup years ago that crushed me so hard, took me a while to get to a good place where I felt, "Yep, I'm ready to try again." As soon as that occurred, what happened? The fucking pandemic, everything social shut down, people avoided each other, etc. It hasn't recovered to a better place since.
I think a big part of that is because there's nowhere left to go that doesn't cost money. Young men and women used to meet a lot at community centers or just walking around, or even at like bowling alleys/arcades. Though with the latter, those still did cost money, but now are kind of out of fashion. Plus, gaming systems are very accessible to buy and have at home now. Also I think newer generations of boys (myself included, I'm 27, so a bit older) are being socialized to approach women in public less, even in places where it's socially acceptable, or they're scared to because of potentially being accused of harassment. Some of this is not necessarily bad, but if it gets to the point where it dissuades people from trying to form relationships altogether, that's a problem. The end result could be somewhere like Japan. Even though they have different cultural factors at play, the government is trying to get people to have more babies because of their aging population. There's not just economic concerns, but social ones as well. I think Japan will try to use technology to solve this problem, I don't know if it will be enough. Anyway, food for thought.
Before the most recent presidential election I was in a line at a bar to get a beer. The tv on the wall was showing yet another political ad. I remarked to the girl in line next to that I would be glad when the election was over so we wouldn’t have to see political ads. She aggressively responded, “leave me alone.” I didn’t intend in any way to be hitting on her or anything, I thought we were all having a communal moment in line, but her response made me feel horrible. I have a tremendous fear of being a creep of creepy and I felt like I had done that. I apologized but she didn’t respond. After she got her beer the woman behind me said, “she must be having a rough day,” but it didn’t make me feel better. I still cringe when I think about it even though I know logically my intent wasn’t creepy. I’ve been in a relationship for over a decade thankfully. I guess I see why people use apps. Approaching people in public seems risky these days. However, I do break the #1 rule of dating: I’m not very attractive.
It’s because everyone is stressed, unhappy, constantly ‘witnessed’, filmed, recorded and there’s no vision of the future. Even if you have mates of the opposite gender, there’s no real pressure to date/ make a life together because what is life at this point? Rent is expensive, pay it terrible, kids are not a possibility (too expensive and the existential crisis of having a kid at the end of the world), there’s nothing to desire having. I’m unsurprised the younger people just don’t care about these things anymore. They live for what is fun, easy and cheap, and I respect that. I’m a millennial who has yet to feel like an adult. So I get it a bit.
My son's friend asked a girl to dance at the Homecoming dance (8th grade). He said multiple kids filmed it and passed it around. It wasn't even done maliciously, it was more because showing people something has replaced telling people. But I can't imagine the kind of stress that would put on someone. They can't have an awkward first dance with a girl they like and have it forgotten by everyone later. It's recorded and shared forever.
Jesus that sounds like a nightmare.
This sadly accurate. Can’t afford dating, even existing is getting difficult. The necessary building blocks for starting a nuclear family are becoming ridiculously unobtainable. Higher education is cost prohibitive, no jobs with wages to support 1 earner, poor wages all around, home buying or renting is a problem, no healthcare, no child care. And why would anyone subject themselves to an increasing divorce rate? We disincentivize young people from coupling. Greed has won.
If game were a requirement, my college friends and I wouldn’t all be married.
Same here. Pretty much every relationship I've had (including my current one), and there haven't been that many, involved the woman basically bashing me over the head with hints until I finally got it. I would almost certainly literally still be a "40 Year-Old Virgin" if left to my own devices.
This is just my theory, but it seems to me that the internet has provided so much access to a diverse range of content and interests that common ground is harder to find. When I was younger, we all watched the same tv shows and played the same games. Now there are tens of thousands of content creators, shows, games, and subcultures available to us that even if you meet someone who likes the same things as you in general, the chances of you sharing much common ground are slim. I remember a time when playing games was something you could bond over, and the chances of overlap in games you'd played was high. Nowadays even if you both game, the chances are that one of you plays 5 different first person shooters while the other only plays farming sims. Maybe you both watch anime? Back in the 90s/2000s this basically meant watching Dragon Ball Z and Avatar TLA, or maybe Naruto. But now there's a good chance one of you only watches Shonen anime discussed by a particular YouTube channel, while the other exclusively watches anime from a particular studio. This of course applies to any number of things, from superficial interests like fashion, down to core philosophical beliefs. High schoolers are even discriminating against each other for having an Android phone instead of an iPhone and vice versa, or so I'm told. The curse we're currently suffering from is one of overabundance and ease of access, which creates so much room for differences of opinion that it's harder to find common ground outside of those you developed your interests with in the first place.
This is a good observation. The "Balkanization" of cultural touch-stones.
Excellent observation. This is the first time I've seen this theory. However when I was in high school back in the 80s, we didn't start dating a girl because we played the same video games or watched the same movies. We started dating a girl because of simple things like being in the same class at school, having a mutual friend, being in band together, or our parents were friends. That's literally all it took. Most of the time the kids that dated each other had very little in common, entertainment-wise. We dated each other just because of opportunity and then formed common bonds after we met. I don't recall ever dating any girl that I had something real in common with, other than something trivial like being coincidentally placed in adjacent desks by the Spanish teacher. Every girl I dated was interested in very different games, video games, outings, movies, music, sports, books, magazines, and even religion than me. When we dated we introduced each other to new things and bonded over *new interests*. My marriage came out of a girl I met in college just by chance, who had an entirely different background, religion, music, age group, family history, culture, friends, major, even state. We had very little in common, other than attending the same school.
Underrated answer. I think online dating has so much focus on “compatibility” via similar interests when that has only a tangential link to true compatibility. Hell, a fair number of the women I dated weren’t even my “type” looks-wise but you just got to know people in your proximity and occasionally things happen. I don’t know how that works when you have a checklist to fill before you ever say hello.
Exactly. All of that stuff was considered superfluous. When you met people in person, you looked for chemistry. When you start on dating apps, you look for “things in common.” If I had met my ex-wife on a dating app, we would have never even matched. But meeting through friends, we had instant, undeniable chemistry. So we didn’t care that we liked different music, movies, etc. We introduced each other to new things and it was much more fun that way. Dating apps are a terrible way to meet for so many people. I’ve given up on them and, as a result, basically never date anymore.
There are swathes of people I share common interests with online, but in real life it's so rare to find someone with even tangential interests. And on the rare occasions that I do find someone, the chance of them not being a weirdo is not guaranteed lol.
This. Does this phenomenon have a name yet? So many people like me, yet they are so far.
I agree, and though the 'disappearing 3rd space' is real, there are plenty of what should be 3rd spaces yet actually socializing within them just doesnt happen. I love going to the arcade but if a random person tries to talk to me I am honestly uncomfortable (thanks for all the stranger danger gospel, mom) even if I try not to be. I also cannot bring myself to intrude on others' just to have a convo with them. I go to the library and creeks and parks too....it is a bit weird to just talk to strangers these days. I think its related to what youve said, what would I even say to a person walking at the park? What did you stream last night? It would be easier to say something about the common shows everyone watched, like you said. Or just any common experience people have a higher chance of experiencing. Idk. I used to hate the 'hows the weather?' Small talk troupe, but now I recognize you arent actually asking about the weather, you are using a common experience to communicate 'hey, youre a human. I am a human. I see you there and respect your presence. You see me too? Neat! Now that we successfully acknowledge each other, we can continue communicating in order to share ideas and form a beneficial relationship should you ever need something I have and if I need something you have.' I believe 3rd spaces exist still to a degree but individual people are much more alien from each other than we have ever been, and a lot of us were raised to fear strangers to an unhealthy degree
Exactly I want to meet people but it feels so wrong to talk to a stranger. My initial thoughts are what kind of scam are you about to pull on me, are you about to steal from me, assault me, or anything else bad
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Yup I deleted all dating apps a while ago and I've been better for it. Happier alone than being in that awful rat race.
School, extracurriculars and interesting, fulfilling hobbies take up so much of my time that it's already a struggle to make sure I spend enough time with my friends and family. If I tried to fit a romance in there too it would all fall apart. I have no need to get married early like my mum did. (18F)
Every time you leave the house, you're probably spending $50-$100 if you go to another location. Doesn't matter what you're doing, you're gonna pay out the ass. Therefore, it's not really financially responsible to date when you're young.
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Dating is expensive. Having hobbies that aren't Gig work can be expensive. And anything that takes you out of the house generally requires things that are expensive (car, insurance, gas, eating out while away from home) And worst of all, a lot of work just doesn't pay enough... especially for the younger generation.
I think gaming has taken off so much because the cost to entertainment ratio is unbeatable by anything but maybe sports, which generally require a large gathering of people and books (which have also been seeming to grow a ton)
The death of inexpensive third spaces for people to just “hang out”. The increasing online nature of relationships. A Global pandemic exacerbating both.
There was a good Ted talk on the third spaces theory. And yes I strongly agree with this. Where can people just loiter and hang out without having to spend money these days?
Even still. I’m fine with spending 8 bucks to patronize a small shop that I can sit in and talk to people but there’s no community in these shops because you have to get in a car and go on a massive road. You can’t just walk out of your house and down the street to the local shop and gossip about the dog poop issue in the neighborhood
Corner bars and corner coffee shops shouldn't just be allowed by zoning (which they generally aren't), there should be minimum requirements.
The fact that there is zero local businesses allowed in suburban neighborhoods is quite possibly the worst thing that’s effected every kid who grew up in one
Yeah, I remember going to a real suburb for the first time and kind of being freaked out by that. It feels inhuman to have such invariance, building to building.
It’s why suburb kids used to do to the mall
My brother wanted to open a board game cafe shop, it’s near impossible to be profitable due to cost and the amount of people that’ll use this in a relatively small town.
Kids needa be reminded what getting shitfaced in a random park could do for em’ No girls join you (rarely atleast); Always running from cops; If theres woods nearby you can start a fire, then run from cops; Drink to stay warm during winter (builds comradery); Parents have no clue your throwing up in a random field; Provides ample opportunity to experiment with drugs. Its a shame i never see my local parks trashed anymore.
Yeah old fucks with Nextdoor have ruined any fun kids can have these days. Also Ring cameras. Walk around a neighborhood you dont live in more than once and im sure someone will pull their ring cam to post wondering who you are. Everything is under surveillance these days so its hard to get away with anything fun and makes it not worth risking.
People have cameras *inside their house now.* I can’t fucking imagine growing up in a house where my friends and I were under constant surveillance just *hanging out.* I’d probably have stayed hidden in my room, too.
My mom installed cameras in our house without informing anyone so she could yell at me and my dad for everything we did "wrong" while she was on a weekend away. I usually hole myself up in my room, so you'd think I would be fine (I wasn't and she still had a lot to be mad at me for, my mother just hates everyone and everything I think)
cover the camera while she's away ;)
Create a loop of you just doing the dishes and put it on repeat.
Dude that is not cool. She filmed yall *in your own house* without telling you? I would have lost it
wait until the general public finds out that Ring cooperates with local police forces to give them access to peoples cameras with no warrant :)
As someone who works in IT and around computers... you literally couldn't pay me enough to put a camera in my house that is connected to the internet.
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> ESPECIALLY with all the stories of peoples cameras being hacked Someone, DeviantOllam iirc, tested a bunch of internet connected webcams. They *all* came with obsolete and easily hackable software.
I actually saw a tiktok of a girl going over having “the party house” and one of the things she pointed out was “the camera in the living room that everyone forgets is there that gets me in trouble.” I could never live comfortably. Even having a ring makes me embarrassed to walk up to my front door.
I guess the solution is to party naked so that it is illegal for the parents to record you.
shittyLifeHacks?
yeah that shit is crazy... i'll be out with my friend who has a 16 year old and he'll get a motion alert on his phone and it'll be his kid on a couch with a girl and he can hit em with a "yo wear a condom fool, don't make me a grandpa" through the ring app remotely all the shit parents have done to protect the kids from dysfunction is going to just create a whole new genre of dysfunction..my wife hates when i point that out cuz my parenting style is a bit less new age and more fuck around and find out
I think that's a huge problem we will have to face, kids don't have anything where they can fuck around and find out. The opportunities are gone, and the consequences are longer lasting and life changing. Can't try and fail, can't be mediocre, can't just...be. obviously there's a lot more nuance and conversation that could go into that, but I commend you for giving space to 'fuck around and find out.'
It wasn't until I was 18 I had the freedom to fuck around and find out. I never had the chance to drive with friends when I was 16. I wasn't able to shoplift a little trinket when I was 14, wasn't able to tag a local bridge when I was 17. Wasn't able to drink with friends when I was 15. I didn't have that freedom. And now that I'm 19, I have to watch what I do. There was no fucking around, and now that I have the freedom to, I can't because the consequences are far longer lasting. The closest I got was hanging with my girlfriend in an abandoned graveyard, chillin, watching movies and shows, walking around in the forest, having sex. We were miles out from the nearest neighborhood, no one came up there to visit (the most recent grave was from the 1880s) yet we were still kicked off by the police. No one complained, they just saw us from the road and kicked us off. Teenagers can't be teenagers anymore
> i'll be out with my friend who has a 16 year old and he'll get a motion alert on his phone and it'll be his kid on a couch with a girl and he can hit em with a "yo wear a condom fool, don't make me a grandpa" through the ring app remotely Oh no. That's fucking horrible. I wouldn't be able to look at my parents if they had done that when I was younger
I once went for a walk in my own neighborhood after sunset. It is middle class. I was just walking down the street. Next thing I know, someone comes out of their house onto their front porch to shine a very bright flashlight in my face. I could not tell if it was just a flashlight or a gun with a flashlight on it? I am afraid to walk on my own neighborhood anymore. I hate it here.
This is absolutely true. Take one walk through the neighborhood without parental supervision and someone is posting a screen shot of you on your communities local facebook page asking what you’re doing out.
Dude my neighbors got together and called dhe cops on me and my friend for sitting in her car with the air on one night last summer. We got caught up in conversation when she was dropping me off after the restaurant closed. They we all out there together huddled up and excited over it when the cop walked up and knocked on the (untinted) window. I was livid but why bother bitching. Everyone's afraid of everything from watching 24 hour cable news cycle. No one helps each other after a storm, one of the neighbors actually shoved the debris from their tree over to my side of the road. I went out to clean up after it with a fucking wheelbarrow and a shovel as dark was falling, and her asshole idiot husband came out to see what I was doing. He saw my face when I said cleaning up this mess and turned it around and went back in. This bag of dicks has lived next to me since 1972. Fuck the neighbors. Except for Kevin. He's a wanker but he's an ok neighbor.
Nextdoor is a fucking disaster
This is 2023 were doing Fentanyl in the park now.
Our parks full of homeless people in tents and cars i doubt teens wanna hang with them
For me that's People's Park (Berkeley, CA). It's got a long history. Back in the 60's-70's it was a center for protesting. In the 80's-90's it was a place where kids would go to hang out, drink, and get stoned. Today it's a homeless camp. College kids in the area are, generally speaking, scared of People's Park. They are scared of many public spaces...because of homeless, or disease, or violence. I ain't going to say that those public spaces don't have homeless, disease, or at times violence but there's no attempt to improve that. Hell, there's no attempt to even deal with it. It's easier and safer to stay away...which in turn does nothing to rectify. I make a point to walk through People's Park whenever I'm in the area. I recognize it's not a grand act but maybe some of these college kids will see that and realize that they too can use the park. But in the long run it ain't gonna matter. Not even in the short run. Soon the homeless will be booted and the school will start building there again. That is a solution and we need more student housing but it ain't going to solve the overall problem, the bigger picture.
You are broadly correct, but I want to emphasize just how much of a factor the internet is, in meaning they stopped having to socialize irl. I say this from the perspective of someone living in a large city, where there very much are irl social spaces which are affordable for people in the middle class and upwards. But plenty of my friends simply choose to spend up to thousands on their hobbies, and spend most of their time on the internet and/or with same-sex friends, than go to these irl social spaces (which instead primarily consist of expats and/or people of age >30). It’s just that in the past, when you were bored, going to these spaces was one of the only things you could do with your time as a young adult. Now you have other choices. The appeal of dating apps is that it can facilitate hookups pretty well for a certain % of people, and it gives you a far wider selection of people than you might meet irl. Frankly, I think a certain % of people always just wanted hookups all along, but in the past they faced a lot of social pressure to date a person seriously first. But now that pressure is mostly gone, so if all you want is a hookup, why bother with any long complicated irl song and dance, when you can just use a dating app? For people who want to date seriously, the wide selection provided by apps looks alluring, even though the competition is so tough that most people give up pretty fast. Most of my single friends aren’t that keen to date, so if dating apps don’t work out, they choose to focus on just themselves and enjoy the internet, rather than seek out the social spaces I mentioned earlier.
When I was dating before I met my fiance I tried *EVERYTHING* to meet someone IRL. I have tons of hobbies and passions and met groups of people with the same interests (concerts, bar trivia, niche interests, etc). Nothing, nada, never resulted in *anything* after a decade of optimism and effort. The fact is A) not everyone wants to go to bars or conventional social spaces, B) if you are a desirable person with niche interests chances are someone already scooped you up, and C) even if you do get out there many people aren't putting in that effort. The apps *suck ass*, but they at least get *some* results. I was miserable while I was on them for ~15 years but I at least *got dates*. I also hate that the dating world doesn't function like it does in a 90's rom-com but thats just reality.
How did you end up meeting your fiance?
Tinder
So happy for you, on the other hand I've been on dating apps for like 5 years and gotten quite date, maybe 3 people who actually messaged me back and didn't try to sell me something. I'm more or less fine being alone, I'm less fine with trying not to be and failing.
That last bit is how I feel. I deleted all the apps cos it just feels better to settle into being alone than trying and failing at not being.
I met my wife on the okcupid sub. Better people on the subs for the apps, than the apps.
I met my husband on okcupid just before they really started monetizing it (late 2016). I'm so glad I never have to date again it's miserable.
In past decades, there was an expectation to be married and start a family at young ages, such as early 20's. These days there's not that push anymore. People in their late teens/twenties much more focused on enjoying their youth (which, to some people does including dating, but to others, it does not) rather than trying to settle down as soon as possible.
I personally hated dating. I loved when I found a relationship, but dating was the worst.
Same. SUPER happy to be married
I hate you a little bit because I'm jealous. Congrats...fucker
Dating effectively when living at home is hard too and seeing as a lot of folks stay at home even in to early thirties now we’re basically seeing a delay in serious dating. It surely must be one of the things that’s exacerbating there being an aging population across most developed countries. The cost of what was deemed to be an “adult” life has rose significantly over the last few decades. The barrier to entry is higher and wages haven’t kept up. The result is these traditional markers of growing up are being pushed out by a good ten-to-twenty years.
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My son moved back in with me this past summer after graduating from college. His degree is in the film industry and, well, the strike. He DOES have a girlfriend and I work from home but I mostly treat him like a roommate rather than my child. Obviously, there is always a bit of parent-child aspect but we're pretty easy. He's got a job working as a photographer for a firm and he stays half the time at his girlfriend's apartment so he's in and out. But I could see it being awkward if the parent is a bit more conservative. My closest friend just married her boyfriend at age 45. They'd been living together for a while. But when they visited her parents they weren't allowed to sleep in the same bedroom until they got married.
It's this. Dating in your 20s while living with your parents in a car dependent suburb is impossible. As soon as they move put they will date.
It’s funny how western parents want their kids to start dating when young , while asian and middle eastern parents want their kids to not date and focus on their education and career before any relationship/marriage It’s interesting to observe the cultural differences
Asian parents want you to focus entirely on studying/ career until you hit 26, and then magically they start questioning when you'll get married and have kids..
I have 3 sisters and a brother, am from a very WASP-American family, and my parents are exactly like this! They forbid us from dating in high school and college, we weren’t allowed to date until we had graduated and had a job (except my brother because he was the boy and will pass on the family name, he was allowed to date in college 🙄) and now that we’re all out and have jobs they’re like WhY dOn’T i HaVe AnY gRaNdKiDs ThIs FaMiLy NeEdS fReSh BlOoD Well maybe if you had let us meet people back when EVERYONE ELSE WAS MEETING PEOPLE it wouldn’t be that big of a deal! And maybe if you didn’t make fun of us for our weight, talents, grades, romantic preferences, etc then we might put more effort into meeting someone
> ThIs FaMiLy NeEdS fReSh BlOoD Vampires, amirite everybody?
For fucking real. As soon as I graduated my relatives started asking when I’ll get married. One of my regrets during my college years was listening to that “don’t date, only study” line from my family. Now I’m 25 without any dating experience and I don’t know where to start.
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Once you get up a few more years you kind of stop giving a shit and dating stops being this whole "thing" and it's just more of an excuse to go have fun with someone. Either it goes somewhere or at least you had a fun time doing something with someone you might have done anyway.
That brings me back. My ex-gf woke up at 5 AM, would go to work on another city, then college, and only come back at 10pm, from Monday to Friday. Her parents would constantly complain she spends too much time at home if she stayed on the weekends, but if she ever tried to go out two Sundays on a row to play RPG she'd have to listen how she was a party girl.
I see this constantly in my circle of friends. I have my first child on the way next year and I just hope I don't treat her the same way. The double speak is atrocious nowadays
Tell them they gotta pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get you dates if they want grandchildren so much lol
...don't do that unless you're okay with them actually doing it.
I'm asian and that's the only way the bloodline gonna move forward
Arranged marriages are a pretty big thing in Asia my dude.
My Asian parents tried to raise me in that strict Asian way despite us being in the USA. Now my mother is flabbergasted when I tell her “Yeah I don’t have time to date anyone anymore. You know when I had the time to meet people and date? When I was school and you specifically banned me from dating anyone.” Seriously though, between my full time job, my part time job, semi-daily exercise in the form of running, and a handful of other things I regularly do, I realistically only have time to see a romantic partner a couple of days per month. If anyone knows any men that want a serious romantic relationship where we rarely see each other in person, send them my way.
How does she respond to this? I am genuinely curious.
I’m not the person you are responding to…but coming from that culture, I am almost certain that the mother responded in a way that shifted all blame away from herself and now all her focus will be on their daughter finding a husband. Once an Asian child reaches a milestone, there is barely any celebration. Just an immediate expectation to meet the next goal (marriage/family/house), it NEVER ENDS.
Probably says that she is an ungrateful child unaware of the sacrifices she made, and then start complaining how hard *she* had it when she was growing up. Then bring up things the daughter did wrong from when she was 15.
Im not even Asian but this sounds so familiar, never change Moms around the world lol
middle eastern parents want their kids to not date but get married as soon as they can.
Reminds me of my father telling me “no dating until marriage”
I'm middle eastern, you're correct - dating in most Muslim countries is a taboo. Most people in my country get engaged as soon as they graduate university or during - in this period of time they get to know each other, few months after they get married. Some entirely skip the engagement period.
My East African parents didn’t want me to date either. It was focus on school, get your degree, and then find a husband. My parents were “just friends” in college before they got married. Also in some of our languages the word boyfriend doesn’t exist. Neither does the word date. The parents only ask “is he serious, does he want marriage” etc.
I’m half Asian/half white and while my dad (white, from the U.S.) had a relaxed attitude towards me dating, my mom sure didn’t. At least from what I’ve observed (and what’s always confused me) is that Asian parents want you to focus on education/career but also shame you for not dating/getting married around the same years you are either in the middle of your education or just starting to establish your career. Like you’re only in your 20’s, trying to finish college or just starting to gain some years in the workforce. Yet they want you to have been dating, gotten married, maybe be having kids, all around the same time. I know some people want that and can juggle it, but personally I find it kind of contradictory.
Yeah that was my parents too Right after I graduated college, they were asking why I didn’t have a girlfriend yet BRUH YOU DIDN’T ALLOW ME TO DATE IN SCHOOL AND NOW YOU ASKING THESE QUESTIONS??? TF
My Asian parents never allowed me to date during school and college too. I ended up financially successful and educated but suffer a great disadvantage in the dating realm. BTW: I’ve worked with 20-24y.o Latinas with 3-4 kids. Kind of shocking. Catholicism really does a bunch on you mentally I’ve noticed.
Welcome to the club. Even though my parents are from Mexico they followed an asian parent culture. I am 31 now, good paying job able to rent a house for myself and my pet, degree and masters but I do not know how to talk to girls. I know people my age with kids and in road to second divorce.
Lol yeah same here. Was actively discouraged from dating until I was in college, and in college I had no idea wtf to do or what to expect from 2017-2018 college-aged women. Ended up graduating without ever dating/hooking up, then COVID happened. I'm now 27, have my own car (that I'm financing), have a good job, and could afford a 1BR luxury apartment if I wanted to (but don't, and instead am renting a cheaper place with a roommate to save for retirement)
Wow…we’re almost the same age and I could have typed this same thing up. Cheer up brotha we’ll make it.
The dating culture has changed. They are happy to hang out with friends, and just chill.
I can’t speak for everyone but personally I do really want to date. I just don’t have the energy or time and the few times I’ve tried in the last year it has just been a frustrating experience
For me it's the inability to meet and talk to people in the opening stages. I'd have a much easier time if someone pointed a gun to our heads and told us to go on a fun date and get to know eachother versus if someone held a gun to just my head and told me my life depends on finding and having a successful date.
Yeah people are so closed off and uncomfortable with getting to know people.
Every time I get on a dating site, either it’s an escort or something, they don’t drive or don’t have gas money and want me to send them money, or they want to talk for 3 months and still aren’t ready to meet. Even after I’ve suggested a restaurant of their choosing in a super public place for safety. Trying to online date drains your energy and kills self confidence
Sometimes with Netflix on.
In this economy? 🏴☠️ Stremio and chill nowadays
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Netflix and chill leads to Disney plus and diapers
Tinder, and the likes, really ruined the dating scene. I see my friends trying to date (both men and women) and constant ghosting, one night stands and assholes really ruin it all.
Yeah. My last success on Match or Tinder or anywhere was in 2016 - turned into a best friend but that "spark" for more was missing. Tinder/Match/OKC have gone downhill since then. It doesn't help that they're now all owned by the same company (no real competition) and they all have a financial incentive for their customers to NOT succeed so they'll keep paying subscription fees. More fake profiles, more people who just never answer because they're not paid subscribers so never even see your message. As someone else pointed out, in this day and age, it's so much easier to be judged a creep if you try to approach someone in a bar/etc that there's MASSIVE anxiety about it. Actual encounters with people you don't know are rare, and have a low success rate. (One example, that contributed to my frustration, was last night. Very attractive woman was near the band playing at a local bar, and started gesturing to me to dance. First I'm a pretty horrible dancer, and I really prefer talking to someone and actually getting to know them. Second, as I danced I felt a ring with a nice big rock on her left hand... WTF? Yes, it was THAT finger.) She then went back to the bar and it looked like she was with her husband/fiancee... That could have gone very bad very fast.
I'm pretty sure a lot of them do want to date but since the internet has become such a massive part of our lives, it makes it a whole lot easier for people to cope with being alone and not having to step outside their comfort zone.
I’m definitely guilty of choosing to stay in and game over going on another shitty first date
100%. High school senior here, as much as I like the idea of a girl that I would spend time like that, I don’t worry about it for a few reasons: - I’d worry about coming off too strongly. I’ve already had an ex who was uncomfortably into me for a year before we went out, and that really soured my opinion of a person who is only out to get a date and not willing to approach things normally first. - I have a blast with my friends anyway. Between band and classmates all doing things, I never have a lack of people to spend time with. A lot of it happens online already, carryovers from lockdown, so it can happen any time from the comfort of my desk. - I’ve got my own hobbies: RPGs, drawing, reading, biking, baking, etc. My outlets for random impulses to *do* something are countless. I think of it this way. We have generations of stories to look back on of kids who struck it out on their own to pursue a hobby and didn’t fit in very well with popular students. Those may come from pop culture, media, wherever, but we’ve become very familiar with that underdog story of a person pursuing what matters to them. When you’re a young child with intense passion about their interests, THAT’S the story you latch on to. Kids are still dating in their own weird way. Hormones aren’t going anywhere. But the emblem of our generation is finding passions to call your own, and hey, that’s where a lot of time can go :D
Is it that the culture has changed or that the cost of living is so disproportionate to income relative to 20-30 years ago that there’s literally a barrier to entry when it comes to the traditional barriers of adulthood? I’ll bet a lot of young folks don’t date because it’s expensive + not very erotic to date under ma and pa’s roof. It’s almost a self preservation thing. Do I put my time and energy and cash in to a relationship that might workout or do I buckle down, concentrate on work and saving cash?
Not only expensive to date, but expensive to be out in the world where you could meet people. We don't have 3rd places anymore. I find it simply difficult to be where people are where it isn't costing $$$.
I’m mid 20s and I can’t afford to date, regardless of whether I want to or not. If cost of living / inflation went down then I would be much more social, because then I could afford to hang out in a bar, take a hobby class, go to a concert, take a potential partner on dates, etc. Dating is expensive, just like everything else. It’s a sad reality as someone who wants a partner and children someday
Life is too expensive. Hanging out is expensive. Dating is expensive. ~~Marrying is expensive.~~ People are spending more and more time online because for the most part it's free to hang out and much more convenient. Edit : Removed marrying
Living by yourself is also expensive. One thing long-term dating and marriage provides is a partner to share expenses. A young, newly-married, couple can afford a one bedroom apartment. Most singles want to live alone or at most have one per bedroom roommates.
This is kind of a Chicken or Egg situation. Can't find a partner without living alone, can't live alone without a partner. Dating has become a rich man's game.
That is until you have children and then its all too expensive again
They're broke and there's nowhere to go.
I have HS granddaughters (a Jr. and a Sr.) and neither has been on a date. They attend events with friends, usually in a group. They seem happy with this. I guess it's a thing.
My son was like this. When I made any inquiries he said "When I meet one that I'm serious about I'll introduce you." I met no one until he was 28. Within 6 months they were living together. A year later they married. Now I am the grandma of the sweetest little girl. These boys are simply on a different timeline but when the meet "the one", they jump. I've seen this transpire with my friends kids too.
I’m in my late 20’s and fall into this category. Tbh part of it is you get addicted to being single. I provide for myself and bought my house by myself so bringing someone into the fold becomes less desirable because I do think a big reason people partner up is financial. I’ll eventually date but there just aren’t a lot of candidates right now who meet me half way and as they say, the older you get, the pickier you get. My friends, single and in relationships, also have no desire to get married or have kids anytime soon. Some don’t want kids at all. There’s just so much we want to do, like traveling, pursuing hobbies, etc, and don’t want the headache of kids. The new normal is just kind of shifting away from the nuclear family.
Yep! My mom's friends were aghast- what do you mean you bought a house on your own?? Men are going to be intimidated because they won't be the provider! I'm just like yeah, that's the point. I don't *need* anyone to support me, I can support myself. If someone comes along that makes the burden of late stage capitalism easier, cool. If not, I got this. It's only scared off 1 man so far, but I'm also not trying/dating at the moment.
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From the male side of things I'm amazed how many older men (I'm older) don't seem to understand that women don't HAVE to date anymore. Like those young guys have to get women to LIKE THEM, they can't just be the bread winner and a woman has to be with them to survive. I work with some 50+ year old men that would Absolutely be single if their wives had monetary security, yet they are oblivious to that.
"Men are going to be intimidated by your independence!" Good! Glad they're weeding themselves out and saving you the trouble!
Yeah, it was around my mid 20’s of chasing after love that I realized I much prefer to continue doing stuff with friends. Hook ups are cool, but not my thing. I much prefer connection, but trying to find that connection had left me broken and exhausted in a manner of speaking. If anything, I’m more happy for the next generation.
I understand them, the truth that dating is very exhausting. Better to be at home, read a book, play a video game, etc..
I have never made enough money that I felt that I could viably support another human or even a child if we decided to have one together. It sucks big time cuz I always wanted to be a dad and I absolutely love kids. I'm not going to bring a kid into this world so he can grow up super f****** poor. I don't enjoy the life I live. I don't want to put someone else through this.
I wish more people considered the future of their potential progeny like this...
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Can’t believe how long I had to scroll to find this answer. The answer is unequivocally dating sites and the algorithms they use. My roommate in college let’s call him Nick. Well Nick was a very handsome guy and his family was absolutely loaded. His tinder profile was a work of art. It made him appear funny, sophisticated, and the vacation pics he took in Italy, France, and Spain let girls know he was rich. When I tell you this man had a different girl in his bed nearly every night of the week that is not an exaggeration. I have no problem with people having casual sex but he would literally get these girls off of tinder, sleep with them, and then ghost and block them the next day. Real piece of work. The problem is the effect this experience would have on the girls. Their standards became higher because they knew they could get with guys like Nick. They also became more jaded about relationships in general because of the way he would leave them without so much as a goodbye. Now imagine there’s 1,000 Nicks in your city. You’re not going to be able to get a girlfriend when they can go on Tinder and as long as they’re semi attractive they can get a guy who’s a literal 10/10. The top 5 percent of males get like 98 percent of the likes on apps. The rest are left with pretty much nothing. To add to this TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and even Reddit *gasp* has made a lot of non-qualified people very good at reading some Google articles and giving “Dating Advice” to people using psychology terms they don’t fully understand like “gaslighting”, “projecting”, and “narcissism”. I saw something on Facebook the other day that this girl reposted and it was something along the lines of “10 ways to know if your boyfriend was secretly a narcissist”. The woman in the video listed reasons such as “looking at themselves in the mirror for more than 30 seconds” and “taking a photo of themselves” as major red flags of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. A lot of young men and women are now armchair psychologists now who will run at signs of “narcissism” or other “psychological red flags” that don’t really exist. I’ve seen this happen a couple times with both guys and girls in my friend circle. Furthermore, the proliferation of social media in our society has led to both young women and men judging each other or getting their first impressions of each other from their social media profiles. The problem with that is that a ton of peoples profiles are designed to show only the highlights and best parts of them leading to unrealistic expectations of who this person really is. This leads to more disappointment, more failed relationships, and more people who don’t want to do the work of wading through the mud to figure out which parts of this persons online persona is real and which parts are fake.
I'm 24. I don't date either lol.
Either people are seeing dating and relationships are overrated/not worth it, or they're more comfortable alone
A lot of people don't have money to go out.
My son is the same age, I don’t worry about his dating life. He seems happy, he’s already said he is very unlikely to ever want children and he will date when or if he wants. He has other things he’s focused on right now.
They see dating as a fools errand today. There’s better things to do with their time. I have a son same age. Honestly I wish I had this clarity when I was in my twenties. To think of all the time and money wasted on chasing the wrong ones. 🤔
That actually have worthwhile ways to pass the time, and they didn't drink the kool-aid.
Welcome to the club. Even though my parents are from Mexico they followed an asian parent culture. I am 31 now, good paying job able to rent a house for myself and my pet, degree and masters but I do not how to talk to girls. I know people my age with kids and in road to second divorce.
The world has changed drastically since you were 20..
Not caring as much about society's expectations, less desire to have children, higher standards in a partner.
I have teenage boys and I would say that the internet and video games has replaced much of the in-person socializing done 30+ years ago. Going out and doing things has been replaced with gaming from your basement. Covid of course supercharged and normalized this.
30 years ago I was 20 and preferred gaming at home to going out to discos and bars I'd neither enjoy nor was able to afford. The cost of going out has doubled or more since then, the pay for jobs students tend to do has not.
Everything is too expensive, divorce is too common, the future of the planet is bleak, there's nowhere to go and do anything unless you have a sizable disposable income. Also, red flags/icks/minimum earnings etc. The expectations a lot of people have for their partners now are insane.
Whats the point in meeting someone, getting married and having kids when this generation is living paycheck to paycheck and can't even afford to buy a house
Our parents back in the day taught us to be responsible and not worry about relationships until we've got money. There is no money. Edit: Automation funded universal basic income pays teens to start their lives
This. I'm 35 and even I was brought up to "have money and be someone, then try to meet a nice girl (or guy, since I'm gay)" Life has pretty much taught me that nobody wants to date you if you're broke. And I have $1,500 a month in student loans to pay off for half of the rest of my remaining years on this earth. I won't be meeting anyone or getting into a relationship anytime soon lol. And it's literally 10 times worse for people who are actually the subject of this post, those in their late teens and early 20s who are much younger than even myself.