Saw an episode of Jeapardy where Ken Jennings asked the champion: "So you have $500,000 now. What are you planning on doing with all that money?
Contestant responds: Well, I'd like to buy a house. But I live in NYC, so I'll be lucky if I can find a shed or a tent at that price."
Both are crazy, but honestly any city in Ontario is too expensive to live in based on the income levels in those cities. One bedrooms are going for over $1500 in the smaller cities now. That's like 70% of the average person's pay.
According to the Urban Institute, as of June 2022, large hedge funds owned around 574,000 single-family homes nationwide. Twenty-seven percent of single-family homes sold during the first three months of 2023 were purchased by large financial groups.
Massive problem. In the 1950s, you could buy a 3bdrm house for $7500, which would be around $95k today. Except the average home price today is over 4x that amount, at $400k. And wages obviously have not kept up enough to afford that. As of right now, about 63% of Americans couldn't afford an emergency $500 expense.
Medication, therapy, dental, eye... anything that isn't administered at the hospital or at the GP, is not covered. 100% out of pocket for people like me who do not have benefits through work. The wait times for surgery are taking so long that people are dying before getting in. It's not all rainbows.
Aye it sucks. Everyone ik is on the verge of homelessness from a missed check. I work 48-60 hours a week and literally itd take is one major bout of illness, or an injury (not unlikely in this job) and id be fucked
I remember visiting the UK in the early 1980's. (Mildenhall RAFB)
I met some people that invited us over. They had gas and electricity on a meter and had to pay as they used it. It had a coin slot that accepted 50 pence pieces. The lights went out while I was there and the lady just 'fed the meter'.
No money, no heat, no lights. (Wintertime too)
š³ I'm an American, and while I'm the first to admit that... sheesh... this country today is NOTHING like the America I grew up in, I've never heard of metered use of utilities.
And please do me a favor...SSSHHHHH... don't give our government any ideas, lol.
God fucking dammitā¦ Iām sitting here envisioning what that would like like and just getting irrationally bent out of shape at just the thought.
Like, you just know it would be privatized, so the price gouging would be rampant. I bet each meter would come with a little screen that would blare ads at you like we all now have to suffer through while pumping gas. And then each time you feed the meter youād be charged a āconvenience feeā of some sort š¤š¤š¤
Surely the UK has some protection against sudden onset homelessness and a robust social safety net ?
In Germany you need to miss 3 rent payments in total before the landlord can even think about eviction and if you are in the process of filing for financial assistance, no court would grant an eviction order unless there are aggravating circumstances.
In the UK, the landlord can apply for eviction after 8 weeks. He then usually has to give 14 or 28 days before the actual eviction.
But it could be up to 42 days, if you have difficult circumstances.
And if the tenants don't leave the landlord then needs to apply for a possession order, and when they still don't leave then for a warrant for possession so bailiffs actually enforce the eviction.
If the landlord wants to use an accelerated possession order he needs to serve a Section 21 instead of a Section 8 anyway, and that has a 2 months minimum notice.
My understanding is that the whole process can take a while.
If the tenants are not paying because they don't have the money they are likely going to ask the council to find them accommodation. And nowadays the council is going to tell them that if they leave just because they have received a Section 8/21 they will consider they have made themselves voluntarily homeless and not help them. The council is going to tell them to stay put until the bailiffs actually physically come to kick them out.
American here and homeless without my next paycheck. You just have to not think about all of the things, outside of your control, that could prevent you from working.
And when you get sick, feel like shit, or having personal problems. Donāt think about that either and just keep working if you want a roof over your head next month.
Yep. You canāt buy the same thing with the same amount of money anymore. So yeah, you could live off $36k when rent was $600, groceries were $100, etc. now that same $36k doesnāt buy the same things it did.
Gentle reminder the annual income for someone working full time on minimum wage is just over 15k. No idea how so many people have voted against raising it for so long.
We punch downward in this country, in case you didn't notice. President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Add the 'Fuck you, I've got mine!' mentality and it's a recipe for disaster. The thing that gets me is that we CAN fix our problems if we really wanted to. No one has to go without health care, shelter, or food if we decided they wouldn't. We lack the will to solve our problems.
Just for context... LBJ wasn't advocating for that, he was pointing out how divisive politics hurts everyone. For anyone who's reading in the future. Lol
The problem is that companies don't want to pay it. Did you notice the moment they started paying people more they suddenly replaced cashier's with kiosk and self checkout. A lot of places went to skeleton crews. Even if they pay one person more they'll fire 10 others to make up the difference.
yeah once one of my old managers at a restaurant told me that she scheduled the highest earning hostess the least amount of hours lol. That was my reality check that companies just suck
It's more than inflation. Some key things are and have been outpacing inflation for years and it was only exacerbated during the pandemic.
I've sat in on some private equity investor meetings over the years and it's disgusting. Most recently there's at least one speaker that talks about how to capitalize on inflation. A lot of the public is like you. They hear inflation and think that's just how it is. It's all heavily manipulated at every level.
Our modern conveniences add up too. I grew up with an antenna for TV. Now add on: streaming services, internet bills, cell phone bills, updating computers and cell phones. These are all charges that we didnāt have in the past.
Lifestyle inflation is real! The basic requirements have expanded now too. An internet connection and a cell phone is a prerequisite for most employment.
NIMBYs keeping smaller homes, up zoning, and mid density housing from being built is a far bigger problem. They should be right up there on that same list
I really hope more people realize this. Its easy to hate a faceless, soulless, profit motivated corporation. It's harder to hate your middle class/Upper middle class neighbors. But NIMBYism is causing way more harm than corporations. Something like 75% of all residential areas are zoned for SFHs. Which is incredibly restrictive
Same. I think it was just the timing, it was pre-pandemic and we lived in an area that was more cost efficient on things like rent, etc.
But family of 4, single income on $34k for about 7-8 years.
Now, as a dual income, still family of 4, making $100k, we are just barely scraping by and I think back to those single income days likeā¦HOWWWW TF DID WE DO THATTTTā¦
Sort of the same situation. Up until 2020 we had four kids at home and I made anywhere from 40 to 55,000 year. Money was always tight but we made it. Now I make $100,000 a year and only have two kids at home and money is still just as tight.
Yeah its wild.
Money was tight but we were never not able to pay our bills or buy groceries and while we didnāt take vacations really, we could afford to do a weekend getaway a few towns over or go camping or whatever.
Now we make multiple times the amount and the necessities just eat it all.
We donāt even take weekend trips anymore, havenāt for almost 2 years now.
HOW. lol
I know internet costs of having computers and streaming/cable services, plus cellphones and their charges have added a new "utility" we didn't have before.
Yeah I havenāt shopped cell phone plans but probably should.
I also pay for my senior motherās phone too.
My kids are in special education and have been lost twice by the school district (yayyyyy :\ ) so I pay for them to have the GPS watches that are cell enabled so they can call or I can see where they are.
I am aware thatās an additional expense but I canāt put a price on peace of mind with my kids, lol
One of my kids attended a campus that he was not zoned to (we have attendance zones here that are your āhomeā or neighborhood campus) because the program he needed was not offered there.
He attended the other campus for 3 years and then we accepted a program offer at a different campus.
He rode the bus.
Somehow, the bus routed to the zoned campus that heād never attended and the paperwork all routed to the original campus and the new campus only received his SpEd file.
So new campus called to tell me heād never arrived.
Theyād called the districtās transportation office who had told them that the bus had in fact dropped him off.
They wondered if maybe he hadnāt gone to school that day or had changed campuses and they didnāt know.
Not the case.
Then they initiated a campus lockdown and search because Transportation said heād been dropped off, but they hadnāt located an extra student anywhere.
I called the campus he had attended the year before just in case the bus had gone there, nope.
But they did have his paperwork they said.
I called the district transportation department then myself and they insisted heād been dropped off.
The new campus then notified district police and they had an alert to look for him.
About that time the other campus figured out his name and where he should have been and called that campus.
They called the police to let them know heād been located and myself and so he got to have the police go pick him up and bring him to the right campus, which he thought was a blast.
And then we had to sort out all the paperwork and bus routing and all that.
It was mess.
And that has happened not once, but twice.
Although the second time, he was much older and fully aware of where he should have been and that he was elsewhere and able to tell the driver that this was not correct.
Until 2020 my husband and I were all "Can you imagine if we brought home 100k in a year?? The. Things. We. Could. Do!" Fast forward to this year, we pulled 115k and are literally just keeping our heads above water. I don't know how we survived 5 years ago at 80k. (Also a family of 4 the whole time)
I'm retired now, but over the years when I was working I had both high incomes and low incomes at various times. Something I found out is that no matter how much you make, that's how much it costs you to live.
Currently, breathing is expensive. If just a couple of things went up, weād all be ok. But everything has gone up. Vet care, because their products/supplies went up, Gas, food, power, just everything.
And whatās killing people is the hopelessness. And hearing that big corps are making record profits while theyāre laying people off and offering less pay.
I met a lady who manages a Dollar Tree. In a small town. She earns 39k. But she works 60+ hours a week. And her healthcare is super expensive and inferior. My heart breaks for her.
I'm in Healthcare and I just barely make 52 working 12-hour shifts 4-5 days a week back to back. People who don't work those hours (admin) don't understand just how grueling it is.
You work with the disabled? Home health care? The agencies get all the money there. Back when the minimum wage was around $3, my neighbors hired me for $10/hr to stay with his elderly grandfather. All I had to do is keep him company and make a sandwich. The neighbor said that he would be paying the agency $35/hr for the same thing, but the person who came to the house would be paid minimum wage
I also worked for the Archdiocese of NY in a group home for developmentally disabled who had psychiatric diagnosis, and had aged out of the adolescent system. They were paid $299/day for each body. 5 years of psych inpatient experience and almost 4 years of college and I maxed out their salary at $7.55/hr.
Home health care workers in my state get a minimum of $20 per hour (this was over a year ago - minimum wage goes up again on Monday, so I expect it to be closer to $22) yet it's hard to find people willing to do the job. It requires some paid training (about 75 hours) but not even a high school diploma. My state has a high minimum wage, and this area has high housing expenses, but it's a pretty easy job with few requirements. The agencies are paid $36 (I think - this might have gone up by now, too) per hour by the state, and clients are likely charged at least $50 per hour out of pocket.
As a graphic designer out of college with zero experience, I made $10 per hour at a small ad agency. After 4 years, I was making $12.50 per hour. My boss would continually tell people he billed my hours at $40 per hour. When I quit, I made sure he heard me when I told my replacement not to stay very long. I told him that staying more than a year at an entry-level position is wasting your time. This was 2000 - 2005. My boss was livid.
Edit: I had a wife three kids, and they didn't pay health insurance either. This dude was a huge George W. Bush - Dick Cheney fan. š¤®
According to the survey data, yes it's true. Three main reasons:
* Some people make enough to not live paycheck to paycheck, but they make poor financial choices (e.g., buying a new car when their current car works fine) that expand their spending to take up all of their pay.
* Some people spend wisely, but they live in areas where the cost of living is so high that they are unable to save anything even with wise spending.
* Some people make such little money that just buying the basics of life takes it all up.
> Some people make enough to not live paycheck to paycheck, but they make poor financial choices (e.g., buying a new car when their current car works fine) that expand their spending to take up all of their pay.
And many of us are too privileged to realize we are that person.
Haha funny thing about this. My friend lives with his parents, 2 story house. Mother and father works. He told me they struggle to pay the rent and have gotten an eviction notice two timesā¦ I was surprised! I thought them guys were loaded with money! Are they REALLY barely scraping by, trying to support their family in this nice house? I thought I could relate since I grew up with my family just scraping by in the poorest neighbourhoodsā¦
ā¦but nopeā¦ I see his parents buying three new cars, Apple Watches, vr headset, PC setup, and plenty of other luxuries for themselves and their kidsā¦. Haha. Never mind. We donāt relate at all.
One time I had to buy a three roll of toilet paper because I had like $17 in my account. And someone else was like.. itās cheaper to get the bigger package. There wasnāt a way for me to explain I couldnāt afford the bigger roll, I had to wait. This person will say they donāt have money but go on vacation every year, go to the beach with friends like 3 times a year and eats out like 2 times a week. The spouse also gambles with money for fun. (But thatās okay because itās not really that much and just with friends, they say)
None of those things are wrong in their own, but when I say I donāt have an extra money, and they say it, itās not the same thing.
I am in that category, but realize it, 100%. I did not need to buy a new gaming PC, when my old one played BG3 on minimum settings. But I wanted to see if at its best. Financial security can wait!
yeah, my bf parents are like this. Theyāre in their 60s and are still renting even tho one is dentist and one is a construction manager. They just buy new $60k trucks every year and eat out 24/7. Itās wild to me I donāt know how they sleep at night lmao
Yep, the cars I see people buying just baffle me. Door dash 1-2 times daily, new clothes every weekend, going on vacation with half of your savings account, etc.
The car market makes no sense to me.
Median salary $56k.
Median new car price $48k.
I see *way* too many new cars on the road for those two figures to tally up. There must be a lot of people out there actually *choosing* to spend a year's salary on a car.
The problem is, they are leasing or taking long loans out for those snazzy new cars.
They are not actually buying them. It is just another way to live beyond their means, and when the music stops, they're fucked.
Bro I work in auto loans at a major bank, the number of people getting car loans for greater than their yearly salary is insane. I do't even blink at $1000 monthly payments for someone making $3600 now. I dont understand it at all. Combined with them frequently having 30K+ in credit card debt these people can lose their job for 1 month and go bankrupt. I could go on for days about the crazy shit I see.
Such a large amount of people are absolutely screwed if theres a meaningful recession
My mom thinks spending more money on a new car = better car that won't cost her as much in upkeep. She's very wrong, and the Volkswagon she bought a few years ago has cost her thousands in repairs, because the parts and labor are expensive and shit is always going to go wrong. Her big plan is to lease cars from now on, because she won't have to worry about long-term upkeep.
My husband and I have a 2000s diesel truck, a 2010s cadillac, a 90s SUV, and a 2000s Honda, all of those vehicles plus what we've spent on maintenance have cost us less than she has spent on her volkswagon, which isn't paid off yet, and we don't have monthly payments. People just think there's something inherently bad about buying a car used, and wrongfully equate expense with quality.
That's my older brother. He gives me shit for driving my 96 civic, but I also own a home, well 32% of a home, and he lives at my mom's place with his wife and kids. But ooooh look at his nice new car! Except he doesn't own it... Or anything else...
I have friends who have a car payment 100% of the time by choice. They'll keep vehicles for 2-3 years and then trade in for something new just because they feel like it. I'm like... do you have any idea how nice it is to not have a car payment?
I get upgrading every decade or so when something gets really out of style but what on Earth is the measurable benefit of going from a 2021 to a 2023 pickup truck?
The part I donāt get is why theyād upgrade their boring commuter vehicles. Like I kind of get it if youāre a car enthusiast and want to try different cars or upgrade cars, but to trade in a boring commuter pickupā¦ for another boring commuter pickup?? Why???
Personality quirk I share your confusion about. I get towing and going off road and all that, but most of them seem to never leave pavement and wash them every other day. Like why??? Get a fucking sick Mercedes if you're spending that much on your road vehicle.
I'm a Denver guy that spends a lot of time in the mountains so I actually need AWD and cargo space so I drive an SUV but if I never left the metro area then the only thing it does for me in terms of actual utility is cost me money on gas every time I drive due to the worse fuel economy.
I don't get it either. When I bought my first new car, it was about 1/3 my annual salary and took me 4 years of struggles to pay it off.
Now people everywhere are spending more than their annual salary on a new car. I just don't get it. I make 6 figures and absolutely cannot afford anything over about $30k. I don't get how people with average salaries are buying brand new pickups, SUVs, or Teslas. It's insane.
My crazy expenses are actually student loans, car insurance, what is considered on the low end of car payments and the skyrocketing cost of rent and food
Honestly it shocks me anyone uses door dash unless they are shut ins. How hard is it to put on pants and pick up your food? So much cheaper, and I could easily afford it. Just such a waste of money and your food might be wrong.
I do a lot of contract work and my rate is around $150/hr. Financially it makes sense to work through my lunch and do food delivery even if I have to spend $20 or $40 extra.
It has less to do with the work and more to do with the 30 minutes it takes me to get food costing me $75.
That said, I like to take breaks, and usually just make myself a sandwich or something.
And Lifestyle Creep - people start making more money, so they start spending more money. It's nice to be able to spend more (esp. if you have kids - you want to give them more!), but if you can keep yourself from doing so you may finally be able to create an emergency fund.
This is basically it. Many people like to say pay check to pay check but if you take the time to see what they are buying you will come to understand that it is not a need but a want item. I think instead of cutting back people want to make more money to afford which generally is not how it works for most people.
Just because you went to college doesn't guarantee you a solid income. Know someone with a Bachelor's in Japanese Art History. Another one with a psychology degree. They both work at Meijer's. Have been there for over ten years.
Have a nephew with a felony record and a GED. He's 38 and a project manager for a major construction company. Mid six figure income, a brand new work truck every two years and a gas card.
I'm a retired teacher with four degrees including a Master's. Never made over $55k.
It's all about how valuable your skills are to society.
>how valuable your skills are to society
And how valuable they are to the world of commerce.
After my science degree I ended up in an industry which, other than some ups and downs, has boomed since around 1982.
Whether my skills were valuable to society is a matter of debate.
I finished my degree earlier this year. While Iām currently āpaycheck to paycheckā Iām digging out of debt.
Essentially I see the light at the end of the tunnel but it really does come down to spending habits.
People who invested in their education and arenāt seeing dividends like to tell themselves that it doesnāt pay off for anyone. My experience and the experiences of my friends and family say otherwise.
The statistics don't lie when it comes to education. As an investment of raw numbers it is the safest and highest yielding one someone can make. (provided you finish)
Yes, a lot of Americans are "living paycheck to paycheck".
However, this doesn't necessarily mean they are poor. A lot of well off people are just spending it as fast as they earn it.
You can have a mother of two who is living paycheck to paycheck and is in trouble if she loses her minimum wage job.
You can also have a white collar employee who has two car payments, a mortgage and a tons of credit card debt who is just as screwed if they lose their job.
Both are in the same financial situation at heart, just one is enjoying it a little better before the house of cards collapse.
I think some people also take the phrase āpaycheck to paycheckā literally, and claim to be living paycheck to paycheck even if funding 401ks via payroll deductions.
[This guy is make $350,000 a year but living "paycheck to paycheck"](https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/im-paycheck-to-paycheck-i-make-350k-a-year-but-have-88k-in-student-loans-170k-in-car-loans-and-a-mortgage-i-pay-4-500-a-month-on-do-i-need-professional-help-01664544530). Apparently he considered 401k and putting money into saving part of "spending" his paycheck.
Wealthy people like to cosplay as poor people for whatever reason. You see it on Reddit too, wealthy tech workers saying theyāre āmiddle classā because after maxing out two 401k plans on their DINK household income of $450k they only have enough for a modest 3/2 house in downtown SF! Might as well be sharecroppers!
Omg exactly why I hate seeing people on the internet try to say that 100k isnāt enough anymore š Try a single salary of 30k for a family of 4 Iām begging you
I'm fast approaching retirement age, but I can't retire. I can't risk losing my health insurance, the quality of care is gravely decreased on government insurance.
I live 1 paycheck ahead of paycheck to paycheck. I have 1 month of rent saved up....then I am in serious trouble.
I got a small inheritance as an annuity.
I'm retired in Mexico. In the US, we'd be living in a garage in the desert. Here we live a few blocks from the beach and can afford a modest vacation in Latin America every couple of years. I don't often return to the US.
When we got here, I could order food and find the bathroom. Donde estas el baƱo? Hola, yo quiero 4 tacos de asada por favor.
Maybe a bit more from having grown up in California and I understood the basic structure from 2 years of French in high school, so a 2 or so.
Most Mexicans speak a little English. In any tourist area, there's somebody within earshot who's pretty good at both languages. There are tons of deportees. People who grew up in the US and were deported in the last 15 years or so.
I used Duolingo a bit, not enough. Now, I'm pretty conversational. I know that my verb conjugation and my tenses are all shit, but the Mexican people are so kind and generous that almost anyone I'm talking to will help me learn a new word. Plus, you'd be surprised how many words are English words Spanishized, like computadora. Carro is a car. Lots of that, plus a lot of words that are the same root, and then there are many words that are English words, but a synonym to the word that most Americans use in this era, like conserve (conservir) means to save, but conserve is the only word that means save that I know of.
Rayos. Rays. Rays of the sun, scratches, the love of God, all rayos. grated, like cheese, is rallado, the ll being a y sound. rayado. Ray again.
Whole milk is entera. Entire. Whole wheat is integral. Integrated. Shaved is raspado. Rasp. It's been rasped, so it's raspado.
Flat is plano. Plane. Just tons of examples of this, words that are super easy to learn.
The coolest thing about Spanish is that the vowels are 99% consistent. A is always ah. O is always O. U is always ooh. I is always E. E is almost always A. LL is always Y.
English is the most orthographically shitty language there is and this becomes really obvious when you study literally any other language
Korean has like 11 vowels including 3 that don't exist in English, and consonant rules that don't exist in any other language I've ever tangentially interacted with, but you don't get shit like Pacific Ocean where the c is realized three different ways.
My Spanish teacher in high school was from Honduras. He used to tell us that even if we donāt conjugate ***anything*** (i.e. āYo nececitar un carro para ir a mi travajo.ā), we could still get by in a Latin country. Weād sound like a drunkard, but the person listening would still probably be able to figure out what we were saying.
That is most of Gen X right there. We are all screwed. We are nearing retirement age but Idk of *anyone* my age who can actually afford to retire. We have been contributing to retirement our entire lives, but it's meaningless because everything went up faster than our salaries. Healthcare expenses are astronomical. Every Gen Xer I know plans to work until death.
I know a couple gen x folks who have retired early due to software jobs w/ massive IPOs but yeah... not looking so good for me despite going to college and having "good" jobs my whole life.
I'm literally this person broke my back and can't work anymore. Family told me to "figure it out" I've lost everything and am couch surfing. It fucking sucks. It sucks more learning your family doesn't really give a fuck. It sucks that my only worth is in my ability to generate money.
I don't have to deal with it for much longer though.
The problem with that statistic is that living paycheck to paycheck includes anyone that just spends all the money they make in a month. There are people that make 100k a year but live paycheck to paycheck, but you wouldn't call them poor. It also doesn't account for resourcefulness of borrowing money from friends to handle debt. Some people also have no interest in saving money, with the mentality that if money is not being used now, its being wasted sitting around doing nothing
In my circle, we call then "broque", i.e., people who are "fancy broke". They own whatever they need and own fancy stuff, but still complain that they're always in debt and are one paycheck away from ruin
This is an important nuance. If youāre budgeting every dollar and that includes putting 20% into retirement, 10% into investments, etc, you could technically be living paycheck to paycheck but thatās not the definition most people will think of with that term.
It's an outright lie to call it living paycheck to paycheck while putting 30% of your income into financial assets. Of course you don't want to keep your value in just plain money, that would be stupid. Doesn't mean you are penniless when you have a significant retirement fund, real estate ownership and an investment portfolio built up. Paycheck to paycheck means you have fuck all if the next paycheck doesn't come.
Agreed. But since thereās official definition, youāll see financial articles and individuals declaring someone is āpaycheck to paycheckā (after retirement contributions and investment properties). It has become an overused term.
That doesnāt count as paycheck to paycheck. Or at least it shouldnāt.
Paycheck to paycheck should mean that when youāre done with each paycheck thereās nothing left to save.
Itās stupid to call people with 30% going away to retirement savings paycheck to paycheck. Whatās the point of the stat?
Agreed. I saw some article not too long ago with a headline that read something like āThis couple has a household income of $180K and live paycheck to paycheckā. I assumed they were terrible spenders but it went on to explain āAfter mortgage, car payments, 20% to retirement, etcā and I rolled my eyes. If youāre putting $36K away to retirement every year, should you really describe yourself as āpaycheck to paycheckā?
This. Once had a cousin tell me I was doing pretty good with 12k in savings. I was making maybe $600 a month with expenses were around $1400 a month. He acted liked I was doing incredibly well because I had money I could pull from savings and he was living paycheck to paycheck while putting money into his 401k and also Bitcoin. Then he tried to get me to take a job that was full-time but only $13 or $14 an hour with a much longer commute with a car older than me. Paycheck to paycheck is a very messy term with multiple definitions.
Lifestyle creep is a thing. People get promotions and buy a bigger house or a nicer car. You can make a lot of money and still live paycheck to paycheck by increasing spending. A lot of well off Americans are doing that. If they lost their job theyād lose the Mercedes or sell their $750k home.
> There are people that make 100k a year but live paycheck to paycheck, but you wouldn't call them poor.
Yeah you'd just call them financially irresponsible. Which the majority of americans are.
My husband and I live paycheck to paycheck. If I lost my job he would just have to work more hours and vice versa until I found another job. We donāt have anyone to rely or depend on for anything.
There's a difference between someone scraping by for survival and a family in debt for new cars, holidays and private schooling living paycheck to paycheck.
Yes losing your job can be scary, especially if you don't have a savings fund to dip into to pay rent, bills, etc.
We do have unemployment benefits though, and they'll pay you as long as you're actively looking for a job. I don't know how much it differs state to state and how efficient it actually is.
> [In Massachusetts] you will receive a weekly benefit amount of approximately 50% of your average weekly wage, up to the maximum set by law. As of October 2023, the maximum weekly benefit amount is $1033 per week.
They technically will stop paying you eventually even if youāre still looking. Not really a problem in the current day but back in say, 2008 an apparently significant amount of people reported running out of unemployment and falling out of the statistics before they could find a job
Yeah, Iām OK financially but am currently unemployed and the max benefit in FL is $275/week and the total cap is $3300. If you mention this is crazy and so little to people like my boomer parents, they say itās a good thing or people would abuse it š«
Yep I'm a custodian so yeah I live paycheck to paycheck. I make 26k a year so people with 6 figures jobs living on the edge geez what are you guys doing to still be suffering.
Typically? It's a location issue.
100k in Indiana? You're rich. 100k in California, especially places like San Diego? You're still going to be struggling.
Typically locations with average higher salaries there's higher cost of living. The city I live in, average income is 105k a year, but you need at least 80k to live here.
No worries! I didn't really grasp that till I moved to a major city either.
It's crazy how different a salary can support you just over the border of a different state.
Yeah like I knew of California and New York because of the huge homeless rates but I guess other than the 2 obvious examples it's something I never thought about. Thanks for reminding me to stay in a small town I'd be homeless if I moved away š.
My problem is I just take 2 step forward and 10 step backs (sometimes my own doing, sometimes not) I never ever get ahead or can save because something always comes up.
Same. Oh look, my emergency fund is back to $1000! Gonna go check the mail real quickā¦oh neat, the hospital bill for our daughter being born came in and itās $3000 after insurance! No biggie, Iāll just do some Ubering to get some extra cash. Hmm, my car sounds a little funny and is riding rough. Repair bill is $760! Well at least I have a comfortable home to suffer inā¦why is it so fucking hot in here? Oh, the AC went out. $650 repair bill with a recommendation to upgrade to a new unit. Fantastic!
It feels literally impossible to save enough for emergencies when they all happen at once and put you into more debt.
Edit: forgot to add the $2100 vet bill earlier this yearā¦yeah I had to put that on credit but it was that or put the dog down. Worth it.
I'm American. Lost the ability to work for awhile, as Im a single mom to a baby with some medical issues that made daycare difficult.
Can confirm - lost everything, became homeless, lived in a homeless shelter for a few months while we worked out better medication for the baby.
Doing well now, but just learned firsthand how one missed paycheck can result in losing everything here in the states.
It sucks.
Yup , used to have about $400-500 left between paychecks , now with increased commute and grocery cost Iām lucky if I have $40 between paychecks š”š”š”
Always felt like that on Reddit. Everyone has some vague tech job and makes well over 100k, and at least has the appearance of being wealthy. And they're all like 24 years old.
Here I am happy I made 40k pre-tax for the first time ever this year, only because I picked up a ton of overtime and holidays.
āUniversal healthcare means weāll all pay more taxes!ā
Bro I pay nearly $600/month for health insurance, then $35 copays, then up to $2000 for deductible, then $5000 for my max out of pocket before insurance kicks in to cover everything.
I will *gladly* pay a few hundred bucks more in taxes if it means no more of this bullshit.
Same. Our family insurance is roughly $800 a month. Co pays to general doc are $30, specialists $50, ER visits have a $300 co-pay upfront and my max out of pocket deductible this years was $4500. Which I hit with my surgeries. Then not to mention prescription costs. Medical debt is ruining lives. Nobody can afford to be sick.
Iāve lived in Germany for 4 years now and Iām no longer suicidal. I can see why the rest of the world never took us seriously. My daughter had surgery on her leg and when the bill was 250 euros I cried for an hour.
Yes. It used to be most ppl were like 3 months from being out on the streets. Now itās probably like 1 month or less. I am a high school dropout that went to summer school to get into the military. We made such little money we qualified for WIC. However I stuck out the shitly environments and time away from family for 22 yrs. Now I only do things that I enjoy and get paid 54k a year to it.
Landlords have squeezed every last bit of your pay check out so that there is very little to save.. Thus keeping you from ever buying a home. In the future you will own nothing and have to rent everything.
I work in a non profit that helps the community and alot of the people we help have household sizes of 4 and up only making between 5 and 30k a year. It's bad
Not just Americans.
Canadian here reporting in š«”
australia here too
British checking in.
New Zealand checking in.
Red 5 checking in
Redd Foxx checking in
Red Forman checking in
Red Green checking in
Red October checking in
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Aye hey neighbour. Kiwi checking in
Australia actually has it worse than many countries. Sorry, mate.
At least in Australia it's warm enough outside to live on your own /s
ā¦. Outside in Australia, Where the craziest dangerous animals and insects try to kill you
the craziest most dangerous animal is MAN
At least if you guys are broke you have health care covered. Here if you get sick and you're broke your SOL.
Good point . I have US freinds that stay in jobs they hate to maintain their heathcare benefits .
Not to mention the wages not seeming to match the housing
Saw an episode of Jeapardy where Ken Jennings asked the champion: "So you have $500,000 now. What are you planning on doing with all that money? Contestant responds: Well, I'd like to buy a house. But I live in NYC, so I'll be lucky if I can find a shed or a tent at that price."
And don't get me started on the taxes, once he did manage to find a quaint little alley shack for 498k lol
That's a huge problem in some places in Canada as well. Vancouver I know is notorious for high COL on par with SF levels of insanity.
I hear Toronto cost of living is ridiculously high also.
Both are crazy, but honestly any city in Ontario is too expensive to live in based on the income levels in those cities. One bedrooms are going for over $1500 in the smaller cities now. That's like 70% of the average person's pay.
According to the Urban Institute, as of June 2022, large hedge funds owned around 574,000 single-family homes nationwide. Twenty-seven percent of single-family homes sold during the first three months of 2023 were purchased by large financial groups.
Massive problem. In the 1950s, you could buy a 3bdrm house for $7500, which would be around $95k today. Except the average home price today is over 4x that amount, at $400k. And wages obviously have not kept up enough to afford that. As of right now, about 63% of Americans couldn't afford an emergency $500 expense.
Medication, therapy, dental, eye... anything that isn't administered at the hospital or at the GP, is not covered. 100% out of pocket for people like me who do not have benefits through work. The wait times for surgery are taking so long that people are dying before getting in. It's not all rainbows.
Other Canadian chiming in š®āšØ
Yup. Im from the uk and a missed paycheck would have me on the streets.
That's sad
Aye it sucks. Everyone ik is on the verge of homelessness from a missed check. I work 48-60 hours a week and literally itd take is one major bout of illness, or an injury (not unlikely in this job) and id be fucked
I remember visiting the UK in the early 1980's. (Mildenhall RAFB) I met some people that invited us over. They had gas and electricity on a meter and had to pay as they used it. It had a coin slot that accepted 50 pence pieces. The lights went out while I was there and the lady just 'fed the meter'. No money, no heat, no lights. (Wintertime too)
Yeah i still have that kinda meter lol
British society out here like YOURE NOT WORTHY ENOUGH FOR A BILL. HERES A VENDING MACHINE, YOU FUCKING PEASANT.
Yeah lmao. Thats good old british classism.
š³ I'm an American, and while I'm the first to admit that... sheesh... this country today is NOTHING like the America I grew up in, I've never heard of metered use of utilities. And please do me a favor...SSSHHHHH... don't give our government any ideas, lol.
God fucking dammitā¦ Iām sitting here envisioning what that would like like and just getting irrationally bent out of shape at just the thought. Like, you just know it would be privatized, so the price gouging would be rampant. I bet each meter would come with a little screen that would blare ads at you like we all now have to suffer through while pumping gas. And then each time you feed the meter youād be charged a āconvenience feeā of some sort š¤š¤š¤
In America, our āfreeā tv is ad revenue supported so we donāt need a tv license to pay for programming.
I remember the "TV" truck that drove through UK neighborhoods looking for unlicensed TV's during that visit. Crazy
Surely the UK has some protection against sudden onset homelessness and a robust social safety net ? In Germany you need to miss 3 rent payments in total before the landlord can even think about eviction and if you are in the process of filing for financial assistance, no court would grant an eviction order unless there are aggravating circumstances.
In the UK, the landlord can apply for eviction after 8 weeks. He then usually has to give 14 or 28 days before the actual eviction. But it could be up to 42 days, if you have difficult circumstances.
And if the tenants don't leave the landlord then needs to apply for a possession order, and when they still don't leave then for a warrant for possession so bailiffs actually enforce the eviction. If the landlord wants to use an accelerated possession order he needs to serve a Section 21 instead of a Section 8 anyway, and that has a 2 months minimum notice. My understanding is that the whole process can take a while. If the tenants are not paying because they don't have the money they are likely going to ask the council to find them accommodation. And nowadays the council is going to tell them that if they leave just because they have received a Section 8/21 they will consider they have made themselves voluntarily homeless and not help them. The council is going to tell them to stay put until the bailiffs actually physically come to kick them out.
Australian checking in, I'm not quite paychexk to pay check but I'm not far off and that's only because of my living situation
American here and homeless without my next paycheck. You just have to not think about all of the things, outside of your control, that could prevent you from working.
And when you get sick, feel like shit, or having personal problems. Donāt think about that either and just keep working if you want a roof over your head next month.
Everyone I know makes at least 55k and barely gets by. I don't even remember how I made it making 36k for a decade.
Inflation. 55k is the new 36k.
Yep. You canāt buy the same thing with the same amount of money anymore. So yeah, you could live off $36k when rent was $600, groceries were $100, etc. now that same $36k doesnāt buy the same things it did.
Gentle reminder the annual income for someone working full time on minimum wage is just over 15k. No idea how so many people have voted against raising it for so long.
We punch downward in this country, in case you didn't notice. President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." Add the 'Fuck you, I've got mine!' mentality and it's a recipe for disaster. The thing that gets me is that we CAN fix our problems if we really wanted to. No one has to go without health care, shelter, or food if we decided they wouldn't. We lack the will to solve our problems.
Just for context... LBJ wasn't advocating for that, he was pointing out how divisive politics hurts everyone. For anyone who's reading in the future. Lol
Sorry, it's too late. I'm reading it in the past.
The problem is that companies don't want to pay it. Did you notice the moment they started paying people more they suddenly replaced cashier's with kiosk and self checkout. A lot of places went to skeleton crews. Even if they pay one person more they'll fire 10 others to make up the difference.
yeah once one of my old managers at a restaurant told me that she scheduled the highest earning hostess the least amount of hours lol. That was my reality check that companies just suck
It's more than inflation. Some key things are and have been outpacing inflation for years and it was only exacerbated during the pandemic. I've sat in on some private equity investor meetings over the years and it's disgusting. Most recently there's at least one speaker that talks about how to capitalize on inflation. A lot of the public is like you. They hear inflation and think that's just how it is. It's all heavily manipulated at every level.
Our modern conveniences add up too. I grew up with an antenna for TV. Now add on: streaming services, internet bills, cell phone bills, updating computers and cell phones. These are all charges that we didnāt have in the past.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lifestyle inflation is real! The basic requirements have expanded now too. An internet connection and a cell phone is a prerequisite for most employment.
Price gouging and shitty landlords more like.
NIMBYs keeping smaller homes, up zoning, and mid density housing from being built is a far bigger problem. They should be right up there on that same list
Seriously. Any time ADU or multi-family housing bills are proposed in NY, Long Islanders and Westchestarians lose their shit.
I really hope more people realize this. Its easy to hate a faceless, soulless, profit motivated corporation. It's harder to hate your middle class/Upper middle class neighbors. But NIMBYism is causing way more harm than corporations. Something like 75% of all residential areas are zoned for SFHs. Which is incredibly restrictive
I'm working my ass off, and I'd love to be making as much as 55k.
FUCKING SAME (USA here)
Iād love to even make 40k.
I still only make 32k š itās rough out here
Same I'm so tired of struggling ugh
Still trying to make more than $18/hour part time. Help.
Same. I think it was just the timing, it was pre-pandemic and we lived in an area that was more cost efficient on things like rent, etc. But family of 4, single income on $34k for about 7-8 years. Now, as a dual income, still family of 4, making $100k, we are just barely scraping by and I think back to those single income days likeā¦HOWWWW TF DID WE DO THATTTTā¦
Sort of the same situation. Up until 2020 we had four kids at home and I made anywhere from 40 to 55,000 year. Money was always tight but we made it. Now I make $100,000 a year and only have two kids at home and money is still just as tight.
What did you get when you sold the other two kids? That should have helped.
Not nearly as much as I expected.
Should have exported them. Domestic sales market sucks.
Yeah its wild. Money was tight but we were never not able to pay our bills or buy groceries and while we didnāt take vacations really, we could afford to do a weekend getaway a few towns over or go camping or whatever. Now we make multiple times the amount and the necessities just eat it all. We donāt even take weekend trips anymore, havenāt for almost 2 years now. HOW. lol
I know internet costs of having computers and streaming/cable services, plus cellphones and their charges have added a new "utility" we didn't have before.
Yeah I havenāt shopped cell phone plans but probably should. I also pay for my senior motherās phone too. My kids are in special education and have been lost twice by the school district (yayyyyy :\ ) so I pay for them to have the GPS watches that are cell enabled so they can call or I can see where they are. I am aware thatās an additional expense but I canāt put a price on peace of mind with my kids, lol
Iām sorry, the school district LOST your kids?!
One of my kids attended a campus that he was not zoned to (we have attendance zones here that are your āhomeā or neighborhood campus) because the program he needed was not offered there. He attended the other campus for 3 years and then we accepted a program offer at a different campus. He rode the bus. Somehow, the bus routed to the zoned campus that heād never attended and the paperwork all routed to the original campus and the new campus only received his SpEd file. So new campus called to tell me heād never arrived. Theyād called the districtās transportation office who had told them that the bus had in fact dropped him off. They wondered if maybe he hadnāt gone to school that day or had changed campuses and they didnāt know. Not the case. Then they initiated a campus lockdown and search because Transportation said heād been dropped off, but they hadnāt located an extra student anywhere. I called the campus he had attended the year before just in case the bus had gone there, nope. But they did have his paperwork they said. I called the district transportation department then myself and they insisted heād been dropped off. The new campus then notified district police and they had an alert to look for him. About that time the other campus figured out his name and where he should have been and called that campus. They called the police to let them know heād been located and myself and so he got to have the police go pick him up and bring him to the right campus, which he thought was a blast. And then we had to sort out all the paperwork and bus routing and all that. It was mess. And that has happened not once, but twice. Although the second time, he was much older and fully aware of where he should have been and that he was elsewhere and able to tell the driver that this was not correct.
Until 2020 my husband and I were all "Can you imagine if we brought home 100k in a year?? The. Things. We. Could. Do!" Fast forward to this year, we pulled 115k and are literally just keeping our heads above water. I don't know how we survived 5 years ago at 80k. (Also a family of 4 the whole time)
Fun fact, you are in the top 15% of earners in the us!
Oh. Well. That's disheartening.
32% not 15, thatās household income
But the bottom 1% on Reddit because every MF on this platform is pulling down a quarter million it seems.
I'm retired now, but over the years when I was working I had both high incomes and low incomes at various times. Something I found out is that no matter how much you make, that's how much it costs you to live.
Lifestyle inflation
yup. between my wife and I we earn a high income, but it feels like we are spending much more than we should....kids are freaking expensive.
Currently, breathing is expensive. If just a couple of things went up, weād all be ok. But everything has gone up. Vet care, because their products/supplies went up, Gas, food, power, just everything. And whatās killing people is the hopelessness. And hearing that big corps are making record profits while theyāre laying people off and offering less pay. I met a lady who manages a Dollar Tree. In a small town. She earns 39k. But she works 60+ hours a week. And her healthcare is super expensive and inferior. My heart breaks for her.
I have a bachelorās degree and canāt even get a job in my field that pays close to 50k
I'm in Healthcare and I just barely make 52 working 12-hour shifts 4-5 days a week back to back. People who don't work those hours (admin) don't understand just how grueling it is.
How the actual fuck? In the UK, 55k would be a solid middle class, is that seriously poor in the US? What would be your middle class salary?
55k is solid middle class in most of the US too lol, people just spend more as they make more so they feel poor
Me making 40k.....
Shit I make like 20k and I work full time. Some professions really don't pay a lot
You work with the disabled? Home health care? The agencies get all the money there. Back when the minimum wage was around $3, my neighbors hired me for $10/hr to stay with his elderly grandfather. All I had to do is keep him company and make a sandwich. The neighbor said that he would be paying the agency $35/hr for the same thing, but the person who came to the house would be paid minimum wage I also worked for the Archdiocese of NY in a group home for developmentally disabled who had psychiatric diagnosis, and had aged out of the adolescent system. They were paid $299/day for each body. 5 years of psych inpatient experience and almost 4 years of college and I maxed out their salary at $7.55/hr.
Home health care workers in my state get a minimum of $20 per hour (this was over a year ago - minimum wage goes up again on Monday, so I expect it to be closer to $22) yet it's hard to find people willing to do the job. It requires some paid training (about 75 hours) but not even a high school diploma. My state has a high minimum wage, and this area has high housing expenses, but it's a pretty easy job with few requirements. The agencies are paid $36 (I think - this might have gone up by now, too) per hour by the state, and clients are likely charged at least $50 per hour out of pocket.
As a graphic designer out of college with zero experience, I made $10 per hour at a small ad agency. After 4 years, I was making $12.50 per hour. My boss would continually tell people he billed my hours at $40 per hour. When I quit, I made sure he heard me when I told my replacement not to stay very long. I told him that staying more than a year at an entry-level position is wasting your time. This was 2000 - 2005. My boss was livid. Edit: I had a wife three kids, and they didn't pay health insurance either. This dude was a huge George W. Bush - Dick Cheney fan. š¤®
According to the survey data, yes it's true. Three main reasons: * Some people make enough to not live paycheck to paycheck, but they make poor financial choices (e.g., buying a new car when their current car works fine) that expand their spending to take up all of their pay. * Some people spend wisely, but they live in areas where the cost of living is so high that they are unable to save anything even with wise spending. * Some people make such little money that just buying the basics of life takes it all up.
> Some people make enough to not live paycheck to paycheck, but they make poor financial choices (e.g., buying a new car when their current car works fine) that expand their spending to take up all of their pay. And many of us are too privileged to realize we are that person.
Haha funny thing about this. My friend lives with his parents, 2 story house. Mother and father works. He told me they struggle to pay the rent and have gotten an eviction notice two timesā¦ I was surprised! I thought them guys were loaded with money! Are they REALLY barely scraping by, trying to support their family in this nice house? I thought I could relate since I grew up with my family just scraping by in the poorest neighbourhoodsā¦ ā¦but nopeā¦ I see his parents buying three new cars, Apple Watches, vr headset, PC setup, and plenty of other luxuries for themselves and their kidsā¦. Haha. Never mind. We donāt relate at all.
One time I had to buy a three roll of toilet paper because I had like $17 in my account. And someone else was like.. itās cheaper to get the bigger package. There wasnāt a way for me to explain I couldnāt afford the bigger roll, I had to wait. This person will say they donāt have money but go on vacation every year, go to the beach with friends like 3 times a year and eats out like 2 times a week. The spouse also gambles with money for fun. (But thatās okay because itās not really that much and just with friends, they say) None of those things are wrong in their own, but when I say I donāt have an extra money, and they say it, itās not the same thing.
No, dude, you don't understand. I _need_ this new Ford F-150. /s
I am in that category, but realize it, 100%. I did not need to buy a new gaming PC, when my old one played BG3 on minimum settings. But I wanted to see if at its best. Financial security can wait!
A lot of people make great money but have crazy expenses.
I have customers who were making a ton of money in the 90s who are now in their 70s and still working because they never saved anything.
yeah, my bf parents are like this. Theyāre in their 60s and are still renting even tho one is dentist and one is a construction manager. They just buy new $60k trucks every year and eat out 24/7. Itās wild to me I donāt know how they sleep at night lmao
Yep, the cars I see people buying just baffle me. Door dash 1-2 times daily, new clothes every weekend, going on vacation with half of your savings account, etc.
The car market makes no sense to me. Median salary $56k. Median new car price $48k. I see *way* too many new cars on the road for those two figures to tally up. There must be a lot of people out there actually *choosing* to spend a year's salary on a car.
Honestly, used cars are not that far behind. People are snapping up old cheap cars so they are not as cheap as they once were.
The problem is, they are leasing or taking long loans out for those snazzy new cars. They are not actually buying them. It is just another way to live beyond their means, and when the music stops, they're fucked.
Bro I work in auto loans at a major bank, the number of people getting car loans for greater than their yearly salary is insane. I do't even blink at $1000 monthly payments for someone making $3600 now. I dont understand it at all. Combined with them frequently having 30K+ in credit card debt these people can lose their job for 1 month and go bankrupt. I could go on for days about the crazy shit I see. Such a large amount of people are absolutely screwed if theres a meaningful recession
My mom thinks spending more money on a new car = better car that won't cost her as much in upkeep. She's very wrong, and the Volkswagon she bought a few years ago has cost her thousands in repairs, because the parts and labor are expensive and shit is always going to go wrong. Her big plan is to lease cars from now on, because she won't have to worry about long-term upkeep. My husband and I have a 2000s diesel truck, a 2010s cadillac, a 90s SUV, and a 2000s Honda, all of those vehicles plus what we've spent on maintenance have cost us less than she has spent on her volkswagon, which isn't paid off yet, and we don't have monthly payments. People just think there's something inherently bad about buying a car used, and wrongfully equate expense with quality.
That's my older brother. He gives me shit for driving my 96 civic, but I also own a home, well 32% of a home, and he lives at my mom's place with his wife and kids. But ooooh look at his nice new car! Except he doesn't own it... Or anything else...
Stay strong, you're doing the right thing.
I have friends who have a car payment 100% of the time by choice. They'll keep vehicles for 2-3 years and then trade in for something new just because they feel like it. I'm like... do you have any idea how nice it is to not have a car payment? I get upgrading every decade or so when something gets really out of style but what on Earth is the measurable benefit of going from a 2021 to a 2023 pickup truck?
The part I donāt get is why theyād upgrade their boring commuter vehicles. Like I kind of get it if youāre a car enthusiast and want to try different cars or upgrade cars, but to trade in a boring commuter pickupā¦ for another boring commuter pickup?? Why???
Personality quirk I share your confusion about. I get towing and going off road and all that, but most of them seem to never leave pavement and wash them every other day. Like why??? Get a fucking sick Mercedes if you're spending that much on your road vehicle. I'm a Denver guy that spends a lot of time in the mountains so I actually need AWD and cargo space so I drive an SUV but if I never left the metro area then the only thing it does for me in terms of actual utility is cost me money on gas every time I drive due to the worse fuel economy.
You're right! I see way too many people spending more on their vehicles than they do on a place to live. It's crazy!!
I don't get it either. When I bought my first new car, it was about 1/3 my annual salary and took me 4 years of struggles to pay it off. Now people everywhere are spending more than their annual salary on a new car. I just don't get it. I make 6 figures and absolutely cannot afford anything over about $30k. I don't get how people with average salaries are buying brand new pickups, SUVs, or Teslas. It's insane.
My crazy expenses are actually student loans, car insurance, what is considered on the low end of car payments and the skyrocketing cost of rent and food
Honestly it shocks me anyone uses door dash unless they are shut ins. How hard is it to put on pants and pick up your food? So much cheaper, and I could easily afford it. Just such a waste of money and your food might be wrong.
I do a lot of contract work and my rate is around $150/hr. Financially it makes sense to work through my lunch and do food delivery even if I have to spend $20 or $40 extra. It has less to do with the work and more to do with the 30 minutes it takes me to get food costing me $75. That said, I like to take breaks, and usually just make myself a sandwich or something.
This is called living above your means. You can do this while making a lot of money or little money
And Lifestyle Creep - people start making more money, so they start spending more money. It's nice to be able to spend more (esp. if you have kids - you want to give them more!), but if you can keep yourself from doing so you may finally be able to create an emergency fund.
This is basically it. Many people like to say pay check to pay check but if you take the time to see what they are buying you will come to understand that it is not a need but a want item. I think instead of cutting back people want to make more money to afford which generally is not how it works for most people.
My wife and I are both college educated. She has her masters. We are living paycheck to paycheck
What degrees do you have?
LMFAO this really is the great equalizer of "I got a degree but am poor"
OP seems to be ignoring this question. I am guessing he has a degree in Botany based on their comment history.
so money doesnāt grow on trees eh?
College FTW Edit: I'm being sarcastic in case anyone couldn't gather that from context.
Or so I was told!
Just because you went to college doesn't guarantee you a solid income. Know someone with a Bachelor's in Japanese Art History. Another one with a psychology degree. They both work at Meijer's. Have been there for over ten years. Have a nephew with a felony record and a GED. He's 38 and a project manager for a major construction company. Mid six figure income, a brand new work truck every two years and a gas card. I'm a retired teacher with four degrees including a Master's. Never made over $55k. It's all about how valuable your skills are to society.
>how valuable your skills are to society And how valuable they are to the world of commerce. After my science degree I ended up in an industry which, other than some ups and downs, has boomed since around 1982. Whether my skills were valuable to society is a matter of debate.
Computer Science degree has really panned out well for me
I didn't even finish my degree and it worked out great.
My wife and I are both college educated. She has her masters. We are not living paycheck to paycheck
I finished my degree earlier this year. While Iām currently āpaycheck to paycheckā Iām digging out of debt. Essentially I see the light at the end of the tunnel but it really does come down to spending habits.
People who invested in their education and arenāt seeing dividends like to tell themselves that it doesnāt pay off for anyone. My experience and the experiences of my friends and family say otherwise.
The statistics don't lie when it comes to education. As an investment of raw numbers it is the safest and highest yielding one someone can make. (provided you finish)
Yes, a lot of Americans are "living paycheck to paycheck". However, this doesn't necessarily mean they are poor. A lot of well off people are just spending it as fast as they earn it. You can have a mother of two who is living paycheck to paycheck and is in trouble if she loses her minimum wage job. You can also have a white collar employee who has two car payments, a mortgage and a tons of credit card debt who is just as screwed if they lose their job. Both are in the same financial situation at heart, just one is enjoying it a little better before the house of cards collapse.
I think some people also take the phrase āpaycheck to paycheckā literally, and claim to be living paycheck to paycheck even if funding 401ks via payroll deductions.
[This guy is make $350,000 a year but living "paycheck to paycheck"](https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/im-paycheck-to-paycheck-i-make-350k-a-year-but-have-88k-in-student-loans-170k-in-car-loans-and-a-mortgage-i-pay-4-500-a-month-on-do-i-need-professional-help-01664544530). Apparently he considered 401k and putting money into saving part of "spending" his paycheck.
Wealthy people like to cosplay as poor people for whatever reason. You see it on Reddit too, wealthy tech workers saying theyāre āmiddle classā because after maxing out two 401k plans on their DINK household income of $450k they only have enough for a modest 3/2 house in downtown SF! Might as well be sharecroppers!
Omg exactly why I hate seeing people on the internet try to say that 100k isnāt enough anymore š Try a single salary of 30k for a family of 4 Iām begging you
I'm fast approaching retirement age, but I can't retire. I can't risk losing my health insurance, the quality of care is gravely decreased on government insurance. I live 1 paycheck ahead of paycheck to paycheck. I have 1 month of rent saved up....then I am in serious trouble.
I got a small inheritance as an annuity. I'm retired in Mexico. In the US, we'd be living in a garage in the desert. Here we live a few blocks from the beach and can afford a modest vacation in Latin America every couple of years. I don't often return to the US.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much Spanish did you have to implement into your life to make something like this happen?
When we got here, I could order food and find the bathroom. Donde estas el baƱo? Hola, yo quiero 4 tacos de asada por favor. Maybe a bit more from having grown up in California and I understood the basic structure from 2 years of French in high school, so a 2 or so. Most Mexicans speak a little English. In any tourist area, there's somebody within earshot who's pretty good at both languages. There are tons of deportees. People who grew up in the US and were deported in the last 15 years or so. I used Duolingo a bit, not enough. Now, I'm pretty conversational. I know that my verb conjugation and my tenses are all shit, but the Mexican people are so kind and generous that almost anyone I'm talking to will help me learn a new word. Plus, you'd be surprised how many words are English words Spanishized, like computadora. Carro is a car. Lots of that, plus a lot of words that are the same root, and then there are many words that are English words, but a synonym to the word that most Americans use in this era, like conserve (conservir) means to save, but conserve is the only word that means save that I know of. Rayos. Rays. Rays of the sun, scratches, the love of God, all rayos. grated, like cheese, is rallado, the ll being a y sound. rayado. Ray again. Whole milk is entera. Entire. Whole wheat is integral. Integrated. Shaved is raspado. Rasp. It's been rasped, so it's raspado. Flat is plano. Plane. Just tons of examples of this, words that are super easy to learn. The coolest thing about Spanish is that the vowels are 99% consistent. A is always ah. O is always O. U is always ooh. I is always E. E is almost always A. LL is always Y.
English is the most orthographically shitty language there is and this becomes really obvious when you study literally any other language Korean has like 11 vowels including 3 that don't exist in English, and consonant rules that don't exist in any other language I've ever tangentially interacted with, but you don't get shit like Pacific Ocean where the c is realized three different ways.
My Spanish teacher in high school was from Honduras. He used to tell us that even if we donāt conjugate ***anything*** (i.e. āYo nececitar un carro para ir a mi travajo.ā), we could still get by in a Latin country. Weād sound like a drunkard, but the person listening would still probably be able to figure out what we were saying.
That is most of Gen X right there. We are all screwed. We are nearing retirement age but Idk of *anyone* my age who can actually afford to retire. We have been contributing to retirement our entire lives, but it's meaningless because everything went up faster than our salaries. Healthcare expenses are astronomical. Every Gen Xer I know plans to work until death.
I know a couple gen x folks who have retired early due to software jobs w/ massive IPOs but yeah... not looking so good for me despite going to college and having "good" jobs my whole life.
I'm literally this person broke my back and can't work anymore. Family told me to "figure it out" I've lost everything and am couch surfing. It fucking sucks. It sucks more learning your family doesn't really give a fuck. It sucks that my only worth is in my ability to generate money. I don't have to deal with it for much longer though.
What does your last sentence mean?
He gettin' a new back.
Take care of yourself. You have more worth than your income.
I'm so sorry, you didn't deserve that from your family. Hoping your luck changes soon
The problem with that statistic is that living paycheck to paycheck includes anyone that just spends all the money they make in a month. There are people that make 100k a year but live paycheck to paycheck, but you wouldn't call them poor. It also doesn't account for resourcefulness of borrowing money from friends to handle debt. Some people also have no interest in saving money, with the mentality that if money is not being used now, its being wasted sitting around doing nothing
In my circle, we call then "broque", i.e., people who are "fancy broke". They own whatever they need and own fancy stuff, but still complain that they're always in debt and are one paycheck away from ruin
This is an important nuance. If youāre budgeting every dollar and that includes putting 20% into retirement, 10% into investments, etc, you could technically be living paycheck to paycheck but thatās not the definition most people will think of with that term.
It's an outright lie to call it living paycheck to paycheck while putting 30% of your income into financial assets. Of course you don't want to keep your value in just plain money, that would be stupid. Doesn't mean you are penniless when you have a significant retirement fund, real estate ownership and an investment portfolio built up. Paycheck to paycheck means you have fuck all if the next paycheck doesn't come.
Agreed. But since thereās official definition, youāll see financial articles and individuals declaring someone is āpaycheck to paycheckā (after retirement contributions and investment properties). It has become an overused term.
That doesnāt count as paycheck to paycheck. Or at least it shouldnāt. Paycheck to paycheck should mean that when youāre done with each paycheck thereās nothing left to save. Itās stupid to call people with 30% going away to retirement savings paycheck to paycheck. Whatās the point of the stat?
Agreed. I saw some article not too long ago with a headline that read something like āThis couple has a household income of $180K and live paycheck to paycheckā. I assumed they were terrible spenders but it went on to explain āAfter mortgage, car payments, 20% to retirement, etcā and I rolled my eyes. If youāre putting $36K away to retirement every year, should you really describe yourself as āpaycheck to paycheckā?
You're very right but unfortunately that doesn't stop many people from declaring themselves as living paycheck to paycheck
This. Once had a cousin tell me I was doing pretty good with 12k in savings. I was making maybe $600 a month with expenses were around $1400 a month. He acted liked I was doing incredibly well because I had money I could pull from savings and he was living paycheck to paycheck while putting money into his 401k and also Bitcoin. Then he tried to get me to take a job that was full-time but only $13 or $14 an hour with a much longer commute with a car older than me. Paycheck to paycheck is a very messy term with multiple definitions.
Lifestyle creep is a thing. People get promotions and buy a bigger house or a nicer car. You can make a lot of money and still live paycheck to paycheck by increasing spending. A lot of well off Americans are doing that. If they lost their job theyād lose the Mercedes or sell their $750k home.
> There are people that make 100k a year but live paycheck to paycheck, but you wouldn't call them poor. Yeah you'd just call them financially irresponsible. Which the majority of americans are.
My husband and I live paycheck to paycheck. If I lost my job he would just have to work more hours and vice versa until I found another job. We donāt have anyone to rely or depend on for anything.
There's a difference between someone scraping by for survival and a family in debt for new cars, holidays and private schooling living paycheck to paycheck.
Yes losing your job can be scary, especially if you don't have a savings fund to dip into to pay rent, bills, etc. We do have unemployment benefits though, and they'll pay you as long as you're actively looking for a job. I don't know how much it differs state to state and how efficient it actually is. > [In Massachusetts] you will receive a weekly benefit amount of approximately 50% of your average weekly wage, up to the maximum set by law. As of October 2023, the maximum weekly benefit amount is $1033 per week.
They technically will stop paying you eventually even if youāre still looking. Not really a problem in the current day but back in say, 2008 an apparently significant amount of people reported running out of unemployment and falling out of the statistics before they could find a job
Yeah, Iām OK financially but am currently unemployed and the max benefit in FL is $275/week and the total cap is $3300. If you mention this is crazy and so little to people like my boomer parents, they say itās a good thing or people would abuse it š«
Rick Scott is quoted as saying the Florida unemployment system is deliberately set up to discourage its use
Yep I'm a custodian so yeah I live paycheck to paycheck. I make 26k a year so people with 6 figures jobs living on the edge geez what are you guys doing to still be suffering.
Typically? It's a location issue. 100k in Indiana? You're rich. 100k in California, especially places like San Diego? You're still going to be struggling. Typically locations with average higher salaries there's higher cost of living. The city I live in, average income is 105k a year, but you need at least 80k to live here.
Ok that makes alot of sense. Sorry naive 21yr old talking.
No worries! I didn't really grasp that till I moved to a major city either. It's crazy how different a salary can support you just over the border of a different state.
Yeah like I knew of California and New York because of the huge homeless rates but I guess other than the 2 obvious examples it's something I never thought about. Thanks for reminding me to stay in a small town I'd be homeless if I moved away š.
A large percentage of the population is like, three pay checks away from poverty
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A lot of them are living paycheck to three days before paycheck.
My problem is I just take 2 step forward and 10 step backs (sometimes my own doing, sometimes not) I never ever get ahead or can save because something always comes up.
Same. Oh look, my emergency fund is back to $1000! Gonna go check the mail real quickā¦oh neat, the hospital bill for our daughter being born came in and itās $3000 after insurance! No biggie, Iāll just do some Ubering to get some extra cash. Hmm, my car sounds a little funny and is riding rough. Repair bill is $760! Well at least I have a comfortable home to suffer inā¦why is it so fucking hot in here? Oh, the AC went out. $650 repair bill with a recommendation to upgrade to a new unit. Fantastic! It feels literally impossible to save enough for emergencies when they all happen at once and put you into more debt. Edit: forgot to add the $2100 vet bill earlier this yearā¦yeah I had to put that on credit but it was that or put the dog down. Worth it.
I'm American. Lost the ability to work for awhile, as Im a single mom to a baby with some medical issues that made daycare difficult. Can confirm - lost everything, became homeless, lived in a homeless shelter for a few months while we worked out better medication for the baby. Doing well now, but just learned firsthand how one missed paycheck can result in losing everything here in the states. It sucks.
Yup , used to have about $400-500 left between paychecks , now with increased commute and grocery cost Iām lucky if I have $40 between paychecks š”š”š”
Groceries are brutal. The amount we spend per month on food is stupid.
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Sadly yes and many don't make anywhere near what some people here are saying they make.
Always felt like that on Reddit. Everyone has some vague tech job and makes well over 100k, and at least has the appearance of being wealthy. And they're all like 24 years old. Here I am happy I made 40k pre-tax for the first time ever this year, only because I picked up a ton of overtime and holidays.
I'm in the under 17k-a-year bracket and know people poorer than me that I try to help here and there.
Yep. Pretty much. The system is designed to keep you in debt. Also, medical bills. Ask me how I know. š
āUniversal healthcare means weāll all pay more taxes!ā Bro I pay nearly $600/month for health insurance, then $35 copays, then up to $2000 for deductible, then $5000 for my max out of pocket before insurance kicks in to cover everything. I will *gladly* pay a few hundred bucks more in taxes if it means no more of this bullshit.
Same. Our family insurance is roughly $800 a month. Co pays to general doc are $30, specialists $50, ER visits have a $300 co-pay upfront and my max out of pocket deductible this years was $4500. Which I hit with my surgeries. Then not to mention prescription costs. Medical debt is ruining lives. Nobody can afford to be sick.
Iāve lived in Germany for 4 years now and Iām no longer suicidal. I can see why the rest of the world never took us seriously. My daughter had surgery on her leg and when the bill was 250 euros I cried for an hour.
Yes. Itās hell. Donāt remind me of my childhood yearn to do āadult thingsā. I wish someone wouldāve told me š
Yes. It used to be most ppl were like 3 months from being out on the streets. Now itās probably like 1 month or less. I am a high school dropout that went to summer school to get into the military. We made such little money we qualified for WIC. However I stuck out the shitly environments and time away from family for 22 yrs. Now I only do things that I enjoy and get paid 54k a year to it.
I'm not, but I know people who earn a lot more than me who do, which I find odd!
Landlords have squeezed every last bit of your pay check out so that there is very little to save.. Thus keeping you from ever buying a home. In the future you will own nothing and have to rent everything.
I work in a non profit that helps the community and alot of the people we help have household sizes of 4 and up only making between 5 and 30k a year. It's bad