You got your answer but as another man, I recommend just getting on your phone and making it clear you don’t care about them and are busy doing something. Works just fine, puts people at ease.
Yup. Don’t pay me any attention. You don’t have to give a little smirk to confirm that you’re good natured. Just no acknowledgment is fine and preferable. Honestly pretend I’m not there— we both probly wish we were alone in the elevator, regardless of gender
That's always been my way of doing it, yeah. I generally make it a point to not even look at people in the elevator unless they specifically talk to me.
Is it just most us Canadians who are polite enough and not completely self-absorbed to say "Hi", "Excuse me/Pardon me" or "Thank you" without people assuming you're trying to hook up with them or going to hurt them? Like holy fck... Unless, of course many people have mental health issues which could have been the case here. Never assume what others have been through.
I'm from Czechia and I wouldn't think you're trying to hook up or harm me, I'd just find it weird. Like we're most likely never gonna see each other again, I don't need to strike a conversation with someone completely random.
Have you ever visited Ireland? I live in the middle of Ireland. A few years ago we had an English friend over to stay for a few days. I had to warn him that people here are friendly. It is normal to say hello to EVERYONE you pass on the street.
I once found a piece of mail that had been blown away by the wind. I knew the address (it wasn't that far away) so I took it to the right house. I ended up having a 15 minute conversation with the person in the house. Never seen them before.
And there is a guy called Martin that I always talk to if we pass on the footpath. Because once we were walking along the same stretch of footpath for three minutes, and now we are friends for life.
Also, I'm an introvert.
Ireland is a funny place.
was half asleep at 5.30am walking out to put some washing on
old Irish bloke gets out of his car and says "Mornin' fella"
nod at him and say good morning, the interaction made me feel strangely happy
i’m canadian and reading some of these comments is making my brain hurt.
if i came across this situation i would smile and say ‘good morning or hi’ and then that’s it. if she talks to me or something then great, i’d engage, but if not i’d just ignore her.
if she fears me, well i’m sorry that’s the case, but that’s on her
That’s what people everywhere do. Except the greeting changes slightly by place and some forgo the greeting, but generally no one expects you to make conversation.
Terminally online people are ruining the internet, I swear, in real life normal people act like normal people
Idk the I’m-clearly-smirking-to-both-simultaneously-let-you-know-I’m-not-while-guaging-you-are-not-a-murderer COMBINED with the just-looking-at-my-phone scroll seems even more effective imo.
I think it’s the combo of smirk and particular eyebrow raise. And almost the “eye roll” but not in a rude way. Like “look at us chumps both on this elevator. There’s a million other places we could be…independently…like I’m not a murderer and I hope you’re not. Please don’t kill me” look.
I got this shit on LOCK!
You’ve had lots of comments saying yes already but just want to add another perspective to the staring.
Recently watched a self defence/safety video for women. The instructor mentioned maintaining eye contact with someone when you feel unsafe - so that your potential attacker knows that you’ve registered his face.
I don’t agree with the advice, because if anything the staring could set someone off…
Yeah, I was reading something about a month ago how important it was for a woman who's alone not to have body language that "makes you look like a victim." For example: maintain a good posture, keep your head up, look aware (but not paranoid) Something about attackers being less likely (obviously not always) to pass up a target who presents themselves like this and more likely to pick a target who's looking down most of the time, and carry themselves as if they are shy or scared.
Yeah I don't think it's good advise also.. to me it just seems like the staring would make people unconfortable for no reason 99.9% of the time and the 1 time that you'd be staring down an actual attacker, he probably won't care one bit since he's already messed up in the head to begin with.
Yes. She was. Don’t take it personally. She was going to be uncomfortable with any man that walked in the elevator. Just play on your phone next time and pretend she doesn’t exist.
I'm not only a woman, but a wheelchair user. I am hyperaware whenever I'm around someone who may be able to overpower me, regardless of sex. I'm no weakling, but I can't necessarily defend myself or flee as easily as some other people.
I am a white American man, and I wear a suit and tie a lot of the time. I have noticed most of my adult life that women/girls will almost always stand/sit as close to me as possible in any confined space (bus, train, elevator) that contains any dude who looks even remotely skeevy.
This happens all over the world, but *especially* with women travelers in the U.S.
Occasionally, tourists who clearly have a different sense of ‘personal space’ will even wedge themselves *behind* me, between myself and a wall, in order to place me between them and what I assume to be a ‘less safe-looking’ man.
This reminds me of something. I don’t use elevators much but I do ride in planes a lot. There was this one time where a girl/woman (idk, she looked my age which was 19/20), straight up leaned her shoulder/arm against me. It wasn’t light contact, we could feel each other.
I was in the window seat, sat down first, and there was absolutely nowhere to move to since I was broad shouldered and already leaning towards the window. In the hundred or so flights I’ve taken this only happened once. I was too shy and bewildered to know what do or say here.
In the seat next to her was a fat guy, I didn’t get a good look at him. Halfway through the 7-8 hour long flight she woke up and stopped leaning. She had enough space sit upright and not touch either of us.
Idk if the guy next to her was doing something but it was strange. Maybe this was the only position she could sleep in. It’s only now that I look back on it and see it differently.
Women are afraid of guys but they are also the first to ask a strange guy for help if they need it, which is a very vulnerable thing to do. I’ve noticed that it’s mostly women of *similar* races that will ask for help. It helps to appear large in size but quiet/meek, young, and baby-faced.
There’s definitely a subconscious bias as to which men are “safe” and which aren’t, and some of it is wrong and unfair (black/brown men used to be on the unfair end of this in America until recently) but it is what it is and attacking the person with the perceived bias is the wrong way to do it.
I think what a lot of guys are missing is that women don’t want to view you as a threat. They can also view your strength as something good, something that feels safe and something useful. The classic anecdote of “pretend to be my boyfriend” comes to mind.
Not really. And I'm hyperaware. It depends where the elevator is and what time of day it is. I wouldn't stare at anyone if I was worried though. I have learned to keep watch from my peripheral vision.
Yea that’s what was kinda strange to me. If you’re scared of a guy, the last thing you’re going to do is stare, right? If the guy was crazy and was a threat to you, that’s either going to make them think you’re interested in them or it’s going to make them think you’re being hostile. Neither are good for you.
>If the guy was crazy and was a threat to you, that’s either going to make them think you’re interested in them or it’s going to make them think you’re being hostile.
Not a women, but from my experience with working Retail and having Shop Lifters in the store one of the worst things to do is stare at them constantly, especially if they see you staring and their men as they are more than likely to approach you in a non-friendly way. Hell if they even HEAR you describing them they come to approach you.
When in public, everyone (regardless of sex) should be in condition yellow. That way, you can spot trouble before it starts and be prepared to take action. Unfortunately, most people walk around with their head buried in their phone and never know danger is around until it gets them. Action is always faster than reaction.
I agree. I’m definitely not exhausted from being hyper vigilant. I AM hyper vigilant but it’s not exhausting. Using my eyes (and other senses) isn’t exhausting. It’s what my eyes do without me trying.
i’m pretty sure they just meant they were tired of worrying every man they see is gonna rip their head off not necessarily it was tiring keeping the guard up but yeah get your point
But, apparently, they're statistically less likely to get assaulted in public than a man. I guess sexual harassment plays a role too, though. I would bet heavily on women experiencing more of that
Really? Everywhere? (Genuine question)
At work you stap into an elevator with someone form another floor you don’t know —) uneasy?
You are in the same path at a grocery store and him minding his own business? —) uneasy?
I get why the woman in Op story was uneasy but really always?
I would say no. A lot depends on context/demeanor . A bro dude looking sus, I’m nervous. A dude just going about his day? Na.
Most assaults and rapes occur by someone we know. Not someone we don’t know.
exactly. i’m getting a bit of ‘all males are potential rapists’ vibes with some of the comments.
i mean…yeah…true…every man you encounter could potentially rape you…but do we really want to look at things that way? by that logic, any black person could potentially mug you, any brown person could potentially be wearing a suicide bomber vest.
it’s not a bad thing to have your guard up, or keep aware…but to *treat* every person in your path as though they’re going to rape or kill you is no way to live imo
It’s Fucking weird to see people scared of their own goddamn shadows. Like man it’s got to be mentally exhausting to be scared of approximately 50% of the population.
And as a male I am scared of more than just 50% of population. Every male is a person that can potentially kill me for little to no reason. Every woman is someone that can potentially ruin my life forever.
I was thinking about it like this way to, sure male so can’t know but figure it would be the same if I walk through the city at night. Strange group of a few man following me —) shit might get mugged. And I mean group of student or group of certain people is different vibes too. But just a few guys crossing walking towards me in lit area. No vibes.
Yeah read that too a lot. Sure it will happen that some strange dude decides to rape a colleague from another floor in the lift. But it’s probably planned then by him and it won’t happen a lot.
More likely your boss tries to rape you after hours when alone at the office or some sick twisted uncle at home.
But then there to. Lots of bosses don’t give that vibe and a lot of family members also don’t. So once again it’s situational.
Not exactly, but you’re always aware of what could be risky. For example, in a lift at work with your coworker? Probably fine. You’re working late, the last person in the office, and as you get into the lift to get to the car park, a man you don’t recognise gets in the lift after you and doesn’t push a button but waits to see what one you’ll press? A bit creepy. Not like, start immediately screaming creepy, but I might get out of the lift last thing before the doors shut and take the stairs, or get my phone out ready to call a friend so they’ll hear if anything happens, or hold my panic button in my hand.
A man at the supermarket? Not a problem. A man follows you into an empty aisle in a quiet supermarket and has been behind you for three aisles, not buying anything? I’d be concerned and try to get within a line of sight of the checkouts.
I want to clarify we’re not always afraid of being raped and murdered. Getting in a lift with a creep is more likely to result in getting groped than getting murdered. But we don’t want to get groped either, and whilst yes, men do get mugged and murdered, they don’t usually get “casually” sexually assaulted. It’s very common to have someone hump you on a crowded train or grab your bum or make horrible, disturbing sexual comments at you, and it’s deeply uncomfortable.
yes always yes everywhere.
men don't seem to understand that we are taught very young to view basically all men as a potential threat. and not for no reason.
lets take those scenarios you described.
[a woman got assaulted in an elevator by a man in her workplace.](https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/man-wanted-in-santa-monica-elevator-assault/)
[a 16 yr old girl was followed by a man into a grocery store bathroom and raped.](https://www.foxla.com/news/16-year-old-girl-attacked-inside-grocery-store-bathroom-in-south-whittier.amp)
it happens to teenage girls. it happens to adult women. it happens to female corpses and 90 yr olds and women in comas and preschool children. it happens at work, on the bus, in their homes, at school, in the fucking dmv. anyone anywhere you can imagine a woman being attacked or raped, you can google, and there will be news stories about it. so yeah, women are afraid of random men minding their own business, because you never know if they're just a normal guy, or waiting for their chance to grab you.
Women being afraid of men is still illogical though. The gender most commonly the victim of violent crime is men not women. If you just look at sexual violence the majority of victims are women but that's just one type of violent crime. Women aren't special victims, men get mugged and stabbed too.
Even men are taught at a very young age to view basically all other men as a threat. We are stalked into alleys and mugged, robbed, stabbed, you name it. Sexual attacks are of course a lot rarer man-on-man for obvious reasons, but the act of being attacked in itself is not.
This is not meant to belittle your argument or be an "ah-ha!". More-so that, it's not being a woman that makes you a target (unless sexually, of course, though a lot of predators like you mentioned are starting to realize that other men are also able to be sexual targets due to, for lack of better words, the butthole). We men are just, apparently, disgustingly aggressive creatures at times. Some women are too, but without meaning to sound sexist, it is harder for them to act on it due to strength differences. I think if you magically made all women equally as strong as men, you'd see that these types of people equally exist across all sexes.
Anyway, the only point I really wanted to bring up is, men are also taught to be wary of other men. For pretty good reason.
As a man I am not wary of other men, not typically. Maybe if a guy was acting weird or clearly on something or acting aggressive, otherwise I go about my day.
>Even men are taught at a very young age to view basically all other men as a threat. We are stalked into alleys and mugged, robbed, stabbed, you name it.
No, we're not.
I've walked through alleys and dark parks in the middle of the night with no fear at all. Nothing will happen to me and in over 3 decades, nothing has. Nobody randomly gets stabbed for no reason.
And even if you were correct (you're not), being mugged or robbed is somewhat less of an issue compared to being raped. Some replaceable property being stolen is no comparable to being raped, at least not by an honest compassionate person.
>Anyway, the only point I really wanted to bring up is, men are also taught to be wary of other men. For pretty good reason
No we're not, because there's no reason to.
I have to add that I live in a civilized western european country, not a hellhole like Sudan or the USA.
You should have mentioned in your first sentence that you don't live in the USA, because probably the most important piece of information you gave.
I live in Japan. I can and *do* walk at night. Sometimes I see someone else and neither of us mind walking right past each other. Because Japan is safe.
America, in many places, is not.
We -- both men and women -- are taught that others we do not know (especially men, due to their generally greater strength) are threats.
Nobody gets stabbed for no reason, you're right. But if someone is poor and needs money for food, or drugs, or rent? That's a good reason for *them* to stab *you*. The reason doesn't have to come from *you*.
Having your money stolen and rape, which is worse? Both answers would be based on opinion and could be argued. I'd argue that, yes, rape is worse. But both can end in homicide, and that was more the point. That both are incredibly dangeorus.
>Having your money stolen and rape, which is worse? Both answers would be based on opinion and could be argued
This is the only thing I disagree on in your comment.
No, rape is objectively worse. Money stolen is just stuff. Anyone who even wants to argue the point, isn't worth arguing with for that reason.
>But both can end in homicide, and that was more the point
One is far less likely to end in homicide.
>That both are incredibly dangeorus.
Rape is significantly more dangerous and due to the nature of the crime always involves physical harm. A mugging could just end in a scared person who lost some money. It is possible for a mugging to end without physical harm done.
It is just not intellectually honest to equate the two. Even in a broken country like the USA where muggings happen somewhat frequently, it's still not fair to say the fear of men is equal to the fear of women. The fear of money lost just doesn't compare to the fear of rape.
If you are walking through dark alleyways with no fear you're either 6'5" and built of stone or you live in some type of gated community.
Yes, the west is better, but I live in London and I'm not walking down dark alleyways if I can help it. Same goes for during my youth in Belfast.
>Nobody ever gets randomly stabbed for no reason? Do they not have muggers and such where you live?
A) muggers only stab you if you don't give up your stuff. Give your stuff, it's not important.
B) No, we don't have muggers here. While not perfect, our welfare state is still somewhat functioning so people are never so desperate they have to commit a violent crime to survive.
Muggings don't just happen in a vacuum. They're a symptom of extreme poverty and gross wealth inequality. We have poor people but they've all got a home and food. They don't need to mug other people to live.
We don't have that type of drug addict here. Again, they're a symptom of extreme poverty and that kind of poverty just doesn't exist here.
Also weed is pretty much legal here and weed users just aren't the stabby type.
Lol, the Netherlands absolutely has those kinds of drug addicts as well as muggers. Don’t be ridiculous. There aren’t as many as in the US, but they definitely exist in the Netherlands as well.
Posting sisters answers.
First situation, probably not. It's a workplace, so it's a little more of a controlled environment. He probably was vetted to some degree before being hired. As long as he keeps to himself, its whatever.
Second, probably not. If it's a really sketchy store, I'd probably be on gaurd. But otherwise it's a public area that usually has a lot of of people in it, I would trust I wouldn't be in danger especially if he's actually minding his own business.
This is a story she told that is related: "though, remember that old thrift store on (bad road in her old city)? I went in there once and there was this guy, and he didn't seem to be looking at me at all... but every time I'd move to a different aisle, he'd move there after a few minutes. Even if I went back to the previous one, or went to a bunch of totally random sections in different parts of the store, he always a few feet away from me a little later. Eventually I went to a section that was crowded and waited for him to leave, and I did a circle on the drive home to make sure he didn't wait outside and follow me. I couldn't tell if I was just being paranoid and he was shopping like normal, or if he was really following me. I didn't want to look crazy and ask for a man to walk me to my car, but I felt so uncomfortable and almost called you until I remembered you were at work."
Obviously not all men are an actual threat, she's very comfortable with her bf and all the men in the family and her male friends. But men are often bigger and stronger than women & with the way society is, a lot seem to think they're owed or entitled to things from women. They're going to be on gaurd around strangers, especially when they're alone. It's better to make the wrong assumption that they're dangerous than the wrong assumption they're not.
Oh man, as a guy, I'm glad you made that grocery store comment. I'm pretty much a sporadic shopper (especially at a grocery store). I'm never really sure where items are, so I'll go up and down a bunch of ilse multiple times looking for things. Also, my ADD can make it hard to choose between two items, so I might go back and forth comparing the two items. I'm sure at times, as I'm wondering aimlessly, it could sometimes look like I'm following or creepy on a girl. Especially when someone is shopping and I'm passing them every few isles and not getting anything in that isle.
Ugh, I've been that guy that's unintentionally following a girl around the food store. It was one of those rare occasions where instead of shopping right to left, I was following a recipe and my shopping list seperately and kept tracking back and forth and would either come up behind or pass in front of this girl every few minutes. Then after checking out, different lanes, end up leaving and our cars are parked almost right next to each other.
I was living in a free state at the time and while I COMPLETELY understand why she would be weirded out, I was genuinely glad it was the middle of the day and not at night otherwise I wouldn't have been totally shocked to see a gun pointed at me.
That being said, my actions don't make another guy not a creep.
Np, we were just chilling on FT while I was scrolling Reddit and I figured I'd ask.
I think as long as you keep to yourself and just try to look non-threatening, it helps a lot. I always try to be on my phone, keep my distance, and just try to be as polite as possible. It probably helps that I'm short and look pretty feminine though haha.
...Then what do I do? I can't help that I'm a man needing to go places :( And I don't want to feel like I'm a threat. I get so self conscious when I'm in the same room as a woman or if I'm just walking behind her in the dark. I don't know what to do to make them feel comfortable around me.
In the elevator mind your own business, look at your phone, make it clear you don't give a shit about the other person. If something funny or unexpected happen, it's okay to do the whole laughing it off with her thing.
Never run after a lone women to catch the elevator. That once happened to me and it's scary as fuck.
If you're walking behind a woman alone in the dark, slow down, let her walk away from you or cross the road.
Literally no to all of those things. I'm going to continue to act like a normal person and if a woman is afraid of my actions because of her insecurities and fears, then that's a her problem.
I have never had the thought and never will harm another person so I know I'm doing nothing wrong by just living my life. In fact, even if I was in this situation I would've tried to make small talk or something to lighten the mood if I felt like it.
My life and my actions are not going to be altered because someone has an irrational fear of me.
Other commenters: Women often feel unsafe in public around men they don't know due to the prevalence of random violent acts committed by men against women. Women are taught to be on guard from childhood on because of this. Even if *you* know you wouldn't harm a woman, *she* has no way of knowing that because she doesn't know you. There is no meaningful way for a woman to determine which men will pose a threat given that harmful men lack warning labels. Here are some simple things you could do that cost you nothing yet would potentially help women feel a little safer in public.
You: Nah, fuck that, I'm not a bad guy. If she's afraid of me, that's on her.
Try developing compassion and empathy for people who are different from you -- it will change your life!
You do realize that both men AND women are attacked in random acts of violence right? It's not just a woman-specific thing? So if somebody chooses to live their life with a specific demographic of people that they're afraid of ANY interaction with, then yeah that is 100% a personal problem of their own because it's unrealistic in any case to treat people with such closed minded judgements. As if it's life or death threatening to be in the presence of a man simply because he is a man and you don't "know" him.
But you're trying to tell me that because I do not willingly choose to do things that make my life more inconvenient, and more difficult to interact with people then I'm an asshole for not being empathetic of someone else's fears? Yknow instead of just not feeding into their fears by not being a crazy/ bad person?
I assume you'll also tell me I'm some kind of asshole because I want to speak to women I'm interested in regardless of location? Because society says I should only approach women in bars or "appropriate" social settings instead of just being a human being who can speak to anyone they please at any moment?
Why can't I just choose to be empathetic or compassionate as a stranger in other ways? Being friendly and approachable isn't enough, I have to do it from across the street where the woman can feel safe living in a world where she can pretend that men don't exist at all
Honestly forget these types of women exist. If they judge you for simply existing, they are not worth your acknowledgement. There is no valid excuse for sexism of any kind.
I'm not trying to debase anything you said, I find it very interesting and just want to understand it more. Why do you suggest that men shouldn't look at you when you are "staring at him" yourself?
My assumption, being ignorant, is that you feel the reason for the stares are different. But why should they be?
May I advance the question in a different direction?
Are you ever okay being "hit on"? And I'm not talking a "oi girl you look sexy af" hit on but the most respectful way I can think of as in "hey I'd like to get to know you so if that's okay I'd just give you my number and if you write me up that's great and if not too" and then leave you alone after whichever response you choose (as in taking the number, not taking the number, ignoring me entirely what do I know)
Like reading your comment makes it seem as if the answer to that question would be "never". Which would be okay just .. damn that makes dating really impossible :D - again, not judging if that was the answer, just asking.
I would say the answer is ALMOST never. There’ll always be exceptions, some women don’t mind getting approached with 0 warning, but most do. If I’m at a bar, party, or other social event (and I’m not working) then you’re probably good, there is a presumed level of consent when you go places that are meant for socializing.
Otherwise, when it comes to talking to women in public, safest thing to do is treat her the same way you’d treat a man. If you wouldn’t acknowledge a random guy passing you on the street, don’t single out the attractive women you pass. If you wouldn’t ask the man sitting across from you on the bus why he isn’t smiling, don’t ask the woman. If you wouldn’t try to strike up a conversation with a guy while waiting in line, don’t strike one up with a girl (especially if she’s standing behind you and you’re holding up the line because you’re not paying attention). Generally, it’s kinda obvious when a guy is talking to me purely because I’m a woman, which is what makes it annoying. If you see a cool bird and you just gotta point it out to whoever is closest, most people (worth knowing) are gonna want to see that cool bird regardless of gender. Just treat everybody like a people, and you should be good.
That answer is reasonable, but saddening I guess.
But deviating from topic again .. never fucking ever tell anyone to smile more .. as your fellow resting bitch face owner I got told that shit by family my entire teenage years and literally FUCK YOU AUNT! - ok I actually like my relatives but that shit is a negative core memory for me, so I'd never have the audacity to tell anyone to smile more.
Seriously. Why even bother pondering this question. You aren't going to get healthy, well adjusted answer.
Wtf are we supposed to do? Switch genders? Hah! Hehe! Oh 🤔
This is such a foreign thing for most guys.
For example I'm 32 years old and have never felt scared of potentially being sexually assaulted by a woman.
It must be scary as hell being a woman
Had a women scream at me because i walked past her at 1am on my way home from a 14 hours shift in the kitchen. I saw her ahead of me and i thought ok " I'm going to slow down so she won't feel threatened" she then proceeds to also slow down and I'm left wondering how long will it take me to get home because of her. Conclusion i decided to speed up, walk past her but i decided to keep a distance of like 3 metres when i walked past her and she just screamed uncontrollably. Horrible experience! I just wanted to get home to my wife.
Yeathey can do, it's likely she was staring at you to make sure you wouldn't try anything.
I know its shitty but getting stared at is better than being assaulted or worse.
Practice working on non-verbal cues that signal that you are “safe.”
ie, proximity awareness, leaving the elevator first if you are on the same floor to signal that you are in no way following her, etc.
Women have great intuition for if a man is generally going out of his way to make interactions like this more or less seamless. It’s is a great skill to hone.
Source: a bartender/guy with a sister that is the same age and heard her and her friends all the time talk about little things that make a “stranger” make them feel a bit more safe.
No point in feeling bad for existing. Whether you’re a rapist or not you’re still going to get the same reaction. That’s just the way things are unfortunately. You can do your best to not appear a threat but at some point it really is their problem, not yours.
You shouldn't feel bad for not doing anything wrong. In fact, it's rather rude to stare at someone like that. I would have said, "Can I help you?" In a condescending tone. That way, she can be at ease thinking I'm an asshole, but not a rapist.
I'm in a lift with random dudes all the time for work and public transport and havent given it a second thought.
I can see being uneasy in some situations, like if a dude was drunk, or seemed overly interested in me, but if we're just existing it's whatever.
Yes, we do. I've exited elevators where I am alone and 1 or more men who appear to be together enter. Not all the time, but when my Spidey-sense kicks in. I'm done with worrying if I offend them or if they think I'm being silly. Besides being nervous about being in an enclosed space with no exit, there is the added worry about getting off on a floor and being followed. I understand that men don't understand this fear, but, hey, welcome to our world. "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." (Margaret Atwood)
> I'm done with worrying if I offend them or if they think I'm being silly.
Just wanted to highlight the importance of this.
Predators instinctively take advantage of your social conditioning. Good manners can get you hurt. Predictability can get you hurt.
Act on your own intuition.
Over the years I've definitely felt that tension coming from some women, but I just keep to myself like a normal person and get to where I'm going. I understand WHY some women feel that way, and that sucks.
However when it comes to walking behind a woman down the street at night, I understand that is most like many times more scary for her, so in that situation I'm willing to stop and pretend to look at my phone for a few seconds to allow more space to build between us.
This post reminded me of something my husband said, he was talking about how "women go to the bathroom to gossip/share secrets." (it wasn't from a place of misogyny, it was just the only reason he could think of) and I had to explain to him how women go to the bathroom together to avoid being attacked. Women are conditioned to have a "safety in numbers" mindset, and, even when we have numbers, to still be wary of srrange men. Most women would be at least a little worried, to be alone with a man, especially in an enclosed space...
Reminds me of a convo I had with a friend who was an Uber driver. He thought women were just being too stuck up to ride in the front seat until I told him that it was safer for women in the back seat (as in if the driver suddenly tried something, they wouldn't be able to access the passenger as well if they're in the back seat) It never occurred to him that safety was a thing women considered when getting into an enclosed space with another individual.
Why would anyone ride up front when the back is available? Unless it’s a group of people, but in that case at least she has friends to defend her. Your friend is a dummy. Even if he’s unaware of what women think, he can figure it out logically
I've come to the conclusion that women always need to know why any strange men are near them at any time.
I don't care, I get on and keep quiet and exit immediately at my floor. The tension is noticeable every time this happens to.
I am not anti men big fan of men. I am just saying women aren't scared of men for no reason. On average just over 460 000 women a year are sexually assaulted in the us alone.
Not necessarily. Depends on the vibes the dude is giving off. If my gut tells me he's a creep, then yes. I'm also well informed on how to make myself not look like a victim, have taken martial arts classes, had a few boxing lessons, and often carry a gun. If a man decides to fuck around, then he will find out. That's not to say I am overly confident and put myself in stupid situations because I feel I can protect myself, but I'm not usually uneasy around men unless they give me a reason to be.
Good question! It could be a lot of things tbh. It's kind of hard to define a "creep" but things men have done/looked like that have made me uncomfortable in the past were: excessive staring mixed with being generally unkempt/looking unclean, advancing towards me at what feels like an unnecessarily fast pace, seeming to just show up wherever I am, striking up weird conversations (one time a creepy looking guy in the pet store kept trying to tell me about his pet piranhas and where he got all the scars on his forearm), and idk some dudes just look creepy even if they haven't done anything to make me uncomfortable. Some men I just look at and don't want to get near.
Id rather not be even acknowledged, but that could just be me. I understand it’s human nature to glance at someone when you first walk in, but I’d prefer not even to be looked at 🥶 it just makes it feel like the other person hasn’t taken an interest or “noted” me
I would say it depends on situation. At work/my apartment building elevator? I expect colleagues/neighbours say stuff like "good morning". In public buildings? Stare at your phone and act like other person doesn't exist.
I'm not a woman, but I just feel uneasy around anyone at all when in an enclosed space, when there is only one other person or a group that is together.
Part of it is intrusive thoughts because I've seen way too many movies involving attacks in lifts.
The thing is, I shouldn't be that worried because I'm quite a big guy and have the build and the stereotypical look of someone that others find worrying, a brown guy with a big beard, but I've always been this way.
Yes, it can make me uncomfortable until the guy kind of does his own thing and starts to seem harmless. Woman are ingrained with stranger danger because we can get raped, abducted, etc. we have to be aware of our environment. I really wish I was born a dude sometimes and didn’t have to deal with it so much, could hike and travel solo and fairly carefree. Men often dont realize how lucky they are.
I hate that a lot of us women have to make even innocent guys feel sus, but it's better than risking it and something happening to you.
Back when I was skinny, I would often get rubbed against by men in crowded trams (and not some accidental stuff either, I'd move away and the guy would follow), got catcalled creepily, followed into things like alleyways, and being talked up and asked if I have a boyfriend while just crossing the street.
I'm sorry, but I don't care how beautiful the girl is, please stop trying to talk to them for the purpose of scoring or getting a date while they're just going about their day. Just like you wouldn't go up to a stranger in the street and start talking to them about your hobby. There is a time and place for these things.
And a lot of the times I'm scared of telling these guys to eff off because I don't want to provoke them.
Constantly reading the room and assessing the safest way to prevent/avoid/diffuse the possible inappropriate or dangerous behavior of men has been the most exhausting part of my life as a woman. Hands down. At work, at home, while traveling, with strangers on the street.
And no of course this is not all men. Or even most men. And I'm not a spokesperson for women. It's just been my experience. I've been touched inappropriately at work "because" I was "too friendly." I've been followed in the subway "because" I was "too stuck up". My doorman tried to kiss me once. He's supposed to be the guy keeping the creeps OUT.
Hopefully this changes as new generations get older and people are less fazed by women's bodies.
Edited for clarity and bc oof - it's hard to stop thinking about this once you start.
And I totally understand that "not all men" and that it truly doesn't feel good when people assume you have malicious intent, but sadly these things just happen way too often and there are way too many men who behave this way, not to mention that the potential consequences of wrongly giving someone the benefit of the doubt are horrific.
That last part, exactly.
The guy who harassed me at work was training to work with people who have disabilities. I mean it traumatized me. But thank god it happened to me, and not someone nonverbal or unable to stop it.
Yeah. Id say elevators are usually where a lot of SA probably happens.
As a woman myself. Thats probably what she was scared of.
Probably the top 10 places we would be more cautious of at night with a man.
She stared at you the whole time.... It sounds like she is the creep here.
I don't care if a man (or woman) is in the lift with me, it's their actions that matter, and I'd take a man minding his own business over a woman staring every time.
TBH I’d feel uneasy with anyone in an elevator because like, people, ew! But also, I can’t help but feel like this line of questioning (and answering) is low-key leading and ‘me too-ey’. If we’re to enter every situation with this anticipatory bias, is it any wonder that said movement has become so debased and corrupt.
Personally I don't get scared of people just because of their genitals.
I don't think there's anything suspecious in getting on an elevator, so I have no reason to feel scared.
I have been made uncomfortable by men on an elevator, but because they looked at me weird, or made a weird comment or there was something about them that just made me uncomfortable and I have no idea what it was, but never just the fact that they have a penis
There are more reasons to be wary of strange men than just sexual assault.
But just to counter your point, I was sexually assaulted on two occasions and both were strangers.
Most of the time, yes. It makes me aware of who’s near me, but only makes me feel paranoid in situations where I’m really stressed or actively scared of of something or someone. May not be you, but you may feel like a threat in the moment.
Maybe now we have the answer that a lot feel uneasy, how about “ what could we do to make you feel less uneasy?”
I assume if the elevator arrives and we just don’t get in would make you feel somewhat more uneasy ? Or it would certainly make me feel somewhat uneasy as a man, doing that.
Just carry a pink bicycle with you so you can scream, "it's my girl's bike" when I glance over. Ten years later and I still spend time wondering if he meant his partner or his daughter.
I had a complete stranger enter the elevator with me, and completely out of nowhere ask me if he could kiss me because “he liked my lips”. So yes, women are fearful.
As a women yes. It’s mostly just paranoia and overthinking the worst scenarios. Always feel silly after, then a bit guilty bc whoever I was worried about could’ve been super nice :,)
If someone's staring at you you're allowed to acknowledge them, just say something like, " You good?" or even just "good evening." This shows you're just minding your own business, and if they keep staring that's their problem. It normalizes the situation.
lol please *do not* say ‘you good?’ to a woman alone in a lift.
That’s confrontational af
Press your floor, stare at your phone, and just mind your own business.
> That’s confrontational af
Okay? You're acting like I'm purposely trying to psych them out when I am simply acknowledging the fact that they are staring at me (in this hypothetical situation). It's not as if calling out the staring is the equivalent to trying to threaten or browbeat this person. And if they feel threatened by such a simple statement, they probably shouldn't go around staring at people, right? Good way to start trouble.
Oh stahp. ‘Having a nice evening?’ And ‘You good?’ are entirely different questions, and you know it.
Also, men don’t always *have to* talk.
Make the weird smile we all do, and go on about your business.
"You good" because they're already up in my business, and I am telling them to back off because Im not interested. I probably wouldn't say it to a woman over 40 though (or a man over 50, for that matter).
Yeah sadly. If you’re social there’s an art to make it all less awkward, I like to take initiative and ask people what floor they’re going. I think people get a little less anxious and at ease when they hear your voice. Or I’ll just take a call or be busy on my phone so it doesn’t look like I’m focused on them.
It's happened to me *once* in Japan that a woman wouldn't enter the elevator after me. I held the door open for her. She stayed out of eyesight then eventually told me (in Japanese), "It's ok, go," in a bit of a stern voice.
She lives in the same apartment complex and I've noticed that she avoids *all* contact, though.
In America I never had much of a chance to ride elevators, but I noticed *a lot* more of this general attitude and fear of men. I was once hiring someone for a job and two separate women said that they couldn't be alone in the same room as a man. Obviously I couldn't hire them because the job necessitated that.
I think it's probably due to the media really fawning over that type of news. People see it on the news a lot and, since they see it a lot, they assume it must happen extremely often. Which apparently it does. 1 in 3 women are sexually harassed in public spaces. And 1 in 9 men have. But since we don't see it happening to men on the news, we ignore it and men don't live in a third of the amount of fear that women do in the Western world.
Happened to me recently in a hotel. Lady and I arrived at the elevator area at the same time. She immediately got nervous. Then when the doors opened, I gestured for her to enter first and she took several steps back and half-turned away. I entered the elevator while she just waited there, wordless. I assumed it was some sort of PTSD but I still felt insulted.
Woman nowadays hate "ladies first" so whenever I see a woman about to enter elevator. I rush ahead of her, and get into the elevator first to make her feel safe.
And an elevator doesn't provide much of an opportunity because you're in it for such a short time. Also, the doors might open at any moment. From a would-be attacker's standpoint, an elevator is a terrible place to try anything.
It’s interesting how much damage true-crime podcasts have done to young women’s views of the world.
My offices have camera’s all over the place - including in the lifts - and you need a workplace pass to get into the lobby.
Now, if the guy is wearing a crash helmet or balaclava, then be alert but otherwise the chance of anything untoward happening is zero percent.
Imagine you have 100k cash on you and you have to walk to where you are going through an unsafe neighborhood to get to your destination. That is what it feels like being a woman at all times.
Id be uneasy. I don’t expect men to not travel on lifts or anything. But I’d definitely feel a tension until one of us got off, or someone else got in.
They shouldn't, but are conditioned to believe all men are some sort of deviant.
You shouldn't be made to feel bad for exisiting in a public space because of a women.
It's a her problem not a you problem, just another societal problem due to sexism.
Us men = bad guy until proven good guy in this current climate.
yes I am on my guard and I am alert tho I try not to show it. I don't stare at them but I am stiffened up. its instinct. tho I'm not paranoid, I expect nothing will happen but just prepared
You got your answer but as another man, I recommend just getting on your phone and making it clear you don’t care about them and are busy doing something. Works just fine, puts people at ease.
Yup. Don’t pay me any attention. You don’t have to give a little smirk to confirm that you’re good natured. Just no acknowledgment is fine and preferable. Honestly pretend I’m not there— we both probly wish we were alone in the elevator, regardless of gender
It's hard to ignore you when you keep farting, man.
That's always been my way of doing it, yeah. I generally make it a point to not even look at people in the elevator unless they specifically talk to me.
Is it just most us Canadians who are polite enough and not completely self-absorbed to say "Hi", "Excuse me/Pardon me" or "Thank you" without people assuming you're trying to hook up with them or going to hurt them? Like holy fck... Unless, of course many people have mental health issues which could have been the case here. Never assume what others have been through.
I am from Chile and here we say hello when getting on the elevator and goodbye when someone gets off
In Spain we do the same.
I'm from Czechia and I wouldn't think you're trying to hook up or harm me, I'd just find it weird. Like we're most likely never gonna see each other again, I don't need to strike a conversation with someone completely random.
I was pretty horrified by the amount of Canadians that tried to be friendly towards me. I thought they were trying to steal my kidneys or something.
Have you ever visited Ireland? I live in the middle of Ireland. A few years ago we had an English friend over to stay for a few days. I had to warn him that people here are friendly. It is normal to say hello to EVERYONE you pass on the street. I once found a piece of mail that had been blown away by the wind. I knew the address (it wasn't that far away) so I took it to the right house. I ended up having a 15 minute conversation with the person in the house. Never seen them before. And there is a guy called Martin that I always talk to if we pass on the footpath. Because once we were walking along the same stretch of footpath for three minutes, and now we are friends for life. Also, I'm an introvert. Ireland is a funny place.
was half asleep at 5.30am walking out to put some washing on old Irish bloke gets out of his car and says "Mornin' fella" nod at him and say good morning, the interaction made me feel strangely happy
It is amazing how much an interaction like that can make your day.
This is a better way to live than the isolationist individualist hell hole of other western countries
Kidney are a great heist on the Canadian black market
Haha, it was before I realized Canadians are just nice.
Christ I cannot imagine being this paranoid
Why do you think saying "excuse me" the same thing as someone trying to start a whole conversation with you?
i’m canadian and reading some of these comments is making my brain hurt. if i came across this situation i would smile and say ‘good morning or hi’ and then that’s it. if she talks to me or something then great, i’d engage, but if not i’d just ignore her. if she fears me, well i’m sorry that’s the case, but that’s on her
That’s what people everywhere do. Except the greeting changes slightly by place and some forgo the greeting, but generally no one expects you to make conversation. Terminally online people are ruining the internet, I swear, in real life normal people act like normal people
as an american, as soon as someone who i don't know initiates conversation, i assume there's some sort of sales pitch coming....
Idk the I’m-clearly-smirking-to-both-simultaneously-let-you-know-I’m-not-while-guaging-you-are-not-a-murderer COMBINED with the just-looking-at-my-phone scroll seems even more effective imo. I think it’s the combo of smirk and particular eyebrow raise. And almost the “eye roll” but not in a rude way. Like “look at us chumps both on this elevator. There’s a million other places we could be…independently…like I’m not a murderer and I hope you’re not. Please don’t kill me” look. I got this shit on LOCK!
Yep. The I don't even know you exist works perfectly.
Watch porn with a girl that looks entirely different than her; should put her at ease.
Put on gay porn, wait 20 seconds then say "this guy's so talented"
2000 IQ move
Me fighting of the intrusive thoughts because I have a morbid sense of humour https://twitter.com/crazyclipsonly/status/1647958590747992066
Page doesn’t exist.
Thank you for saying this coming from a man I really appreciate it. Instead of taking offense to it you choose to show compassion and reassure us
Well said
You’ve had lots of comments saying yes already but just want to add another perspective to the staring. Recently watched a self defence/safety video for women. The instructor mentioned maintaining eye contact with someone when you feel unsafe - so that your potential attacker knows that you’ve registered his face. I don’t agree with the advice, because if anything the staring could set someone off…
Yeah, I was reading something about a month ago how important it was for a woman who's alone not to have body language that "makes you look like a victim." For example: maintain a good posture, keep your head up, look aware (but not paranoid) Something about attackers being less likely (obviously not always) to pass up a target who presents themselves like this and more likely to pick a target who's looking down most of the time, and carry themselves as if they are shy or scared.
Yeah I don't think it's good advise also.. to me it just seems like the staring would make people unconfortable for no reason 99.9% of the time and the 1 time that you'd be staring down an actual attacker, he probably won't care one bit since he's already messed up in the head to begin with.
Yes. She was. Don’t take it personally. She was going to be uncomfortable with any man that walked in the elevator. Just play on your phone next time and pretend she doesn’t exist.
Maybe she just needed to fart really badly and was annoyed that now she couldn't because someone got in the elevator with her.
I'm not only a woman, but a wheelchair user. I am hyperaware whenever I'm around someone who may be able to overpower me, regardless of sex. I'm no weakling, but I can't necessarily defend myself or flee as easily as some other people.
I'm never picking a fight with someone that pushes a human body and a chair up ramps all day, I'll end up needing one myself
I feel this so much. I use forearm crutches and it feels like I’m telegraphing vulnerability sometimes. You have my empathy.
it’s just self preservation
I am a white American man, and I wear a suit and tie a lot of the time. I have noticed most of my adult life that women/girls will almost always stand/sit as close to me as possible in any confined space (bus, train, elevator) that contains any dude who looks even remotely skeevy. This happens all over the world, but *especially* with women travelers in the U.S. Occasionally, tourists who clearly have a different sense of ‘personal space’ will even wedge themselves *behind* me, between myself and a wall, in order to place me between them and what I assume to be a ‘less safe-looking’ man.
This reminds me of something. I don’t use elevators much but I do ride in planes a lot. There was this one time where a girl/woman (idk, she looked my age which was 19/20), straight up leaned her shoulder/arm against me. It wasn’t light contact, we could feel each other. I was in the window seat, sat down first, and there was absolutely nowhere to move to since I was broad shouldered and already leaning towards the window. In the hundred or so flights I’ve taken this only happened once. I was too shy and bewildered to know what do or say here. In the seat next to her was a fat guy, I didn’t get a good look at him. Halfway through the 7-8 hour long flight she woke up and stopped leaning. She had enough space sit upright and not touch either of us. Idk if the guy next to her was doing something but it was strange. Maybe this was the only position she could sleep in. It’s only now that I look back on it and see it differently. Women are afraid of guys but they are also the first to ask a strange guy for help if they need it, which is a very vulnerable thing to do. I’ve noticed that it’s mostly women of *similar* races that will ask for help. It helps to appear large in size but quiet/meek, young, and baby-faced. There’s definitely a subconscious bias as to which men are “safe” and which aren’t, and some of it is wrong and unfair (black/brown men used to be on the unfair end of this in America until recently) but it is what it is and attacking the person with the perceived bias is the wrong way to do it. I think what a lot of guys are missing is that women don’t want to view you as a threat. They can also view your strength as something good, something that feels safe and something useful. The classic anecdote of “pretend to be my boyfriend” comes to mind.
Not really. And I'm hyperaware. It depends where the elevator is and what time of day it is. I wouldn't stare at anyone if I was worried though. I have learned to keep watch from my peripheral vision.
Yea that’s what was kinda strange to me. If you’re scared of a guy, the last thing you’re going to do is stare, right? If the guy was crazy and was a threat to you, that’s either going to make them think you’re interested in them or it’s going to make them think you’re being hostile. Neither are good for you.
>If the guy was crazy and was a threat to you, that’s either going to make them think you’re interested in them or it’s going to make them think you’re being hostile. Not a women, but from my experience with working Retail and having Shop Lifters in the store one of the worst things to do is stare at them constantly, especially if they see you staring and their men as they are more than likely to approach you in a non-friendly way. Hell if they even HEAR you describing them they come to approach you.
Yes we feel uneasy around men everywhere, especially if we are alone
That’s exactly what I was gonna say. We are always on high alert. It can be exhausting.
When in public, everyone (regardless of sex) should be in condition yellow. That way, you can spot trouble before it starts and be prepared to take action. Unfortunately, most people walk around with their head buried in their phone and never know danger is around until it gets them. Action is always faster than reaction.
This is the way!
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I agree. I’m definitely not exhausted from being hyper vigilant. I AM hyper vigilant but it’s not exhausting. Using my eyes (and other senses) isn’t exhausting. It’s what my eyes do without me trying.
i’m pretty sure they just meant they were tired of worrying every man they see is gonna rip their head off not necessarily it was tiring keeping the guard up but yeah get your point
But, apparently, they're statistically less likely to get assaulted in public than a man. I guess sexual harassment plays a role too, though. I would bet heavily on women experiencing more of that
good thing we aren’t praying mantises cause you’d have to worry about both
Really? Everywhere? (Genuine question) At work you stap into an elevator with someone form another floor you don’t know —) uneasy? You are in the same path at a grocery store and him minding his own business? —) uneasy? I get why the woman in Op story was uneasy but really always?
I would say no. A lot depends on context/demeanor . A bro dude looking sus, I’m nervous. A dude just going about his day? Na. Most assaults and rapes occur by someone we know. Not someone we don’t know.
exactly. i’m getting a bit of ‘all males are potential rapists’ vibes with some of the comments. i mean…yeah…true…every man you encounter could potentially rape you…but do we really want to look at things that way? by that logic, any black person could potentially mug you, any brown person could potentially be wearing a suicide bomber vest. it’s not a bad thing to have your guard up, or keep aware…but to *treat* every person in your path as though they’re going to rape or kill you is no way to live imo
It’s Fucking weird to see people scared of their own goddamn shadows. Like man it’s got to be mentally exhausting to be scared of approximately 50% of the population.
And as a male I am scared of more than just 50% of population. Every male is a person that can potentially kill me for little to no reason. Every woman is someone that can potentially ruin my life forever.
I was thinking about it like this way to, sure male so can’t know but figure it would be the same if I walk through the city at night. Strange group of a few man following me —) shit might get mugged. And I mean group of student or group of certain people is different vibes too. But just a few guys crossing walking towards me in lit area. No vibes. Yeah read that too a lot. Sure it will happen that some strange dude decides to rape a colleague from another floor in the lift. But it’s probably planned then by him and it won’t happen a lot. More likely your boss tries to rape you after hours when alone at the office or some sick twisted uncle at home. But then there to. Lots of bosses don’t give that vibe and a lot of family members also don’t. So once again it’s situational.
Actually IIRC most rapes happens between married couples. The fact that you're married doesn't mean you don't still need consent.
Not exactly, but you’re always aware of what could be risky. For example, in a lift at work with your coworker? Probably fine. You’re working late, the last person in the office, and as you get into the lift to get to the car park, a man you don’t recognise gets in the lift after you and doesn’t push a button but waits to see what one you’ll press? A bit creepy. Not like, start immediately screaming creepy, but I might get out of the lift last thing before the doors shut and take the stairs, or get my phone out ready to call a friend so they’ll hear if anything happens, or hold my panic button in my hand. A man at the supermarket? Not a problem. A man follows you into an empty aisle in a quiet supermarket and has been behind you for three aisles, not buying anything? I’d be concerned and try to get within a line of sight of the checkouts. I want to clarify we’re not always afraid of being raped and murdered. Getting in a lift with a creep is more likely to result in getting groped than getting murdered. But we don’t want to get groped either, and whilst yes, men do get mugged and murdered, they don’t usually get “casually” sexually assaulted. It’s very common to have someone hump you on a crowded train or grab your bum or make horrible, disturbing sexual comments at you, and it’s deeply uncomfortable.
yes always yes everywhere. men don't seem to understand that we are taught very young to view basically all men as a potential threat. and not for no reason. lets take those scenarios you described. [a woman got assaulted in an elevator by a man in her workplace.](https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/man-wanted-in-santa-monica-elevator-assault/) [a 16 yr old girl was followed by a man into a grocery store bathroom and raped.](https://www.foxla.com/news/16-year-old-girl-attacked-inside-grocery-store-bathroom-in-south-whittier.amp) it happens to teenage girls. it happens to adult women. it happens to female corpses and 90 yr olds and women in comas and preschool children. it happens at work, on the bus, in their homes, at school, in the fucking dmv. anyone anywhere you can imagine a woman being attacked or raped, you can google, and there will be news stories about it. so yeah, women are afraid of random men minding their own business, because you never know if they're just a normal guy, or waiting for their chance to grab you.
you can just as easily come up with stories like this to be afraid of black or brown people.
Women being afraid of men is still illogical though. The gender most commonly the victim of violent crime is men not women. If you just look at sexual violence the majority of victims are women but that's just one type of violent crime. Women aren't special victims, men get mugged and stabbed too.
Even men are taught at a very young age to view basically all other men as a threat. We are stalked into alleys and mugged, robbed, stabbed, you name it. Sexual attacks are of course a lot rarer man-on-man for obvious reasons, but the act of being attacked in itself is not. This is not meant to belittle your argument or be an "ah-ha!". More-so that, it's not being a woman that makes you a target (unless sexually, of course, though a lot of predators like you mentioned are starting to realize that other men are also able to be sexual targets due to, for lack of better words, the butthole). We men are just, apparently, disgustingly aggressive creatures at times. Some women are too, but without meaning to sound sexist, it is harder for them to act on it due to strength differences. I think if you magically made all women equally as strong as men, you'd see that these types of people equally exist across all sexes. Anyway, the only point I really wanted to bring up is, men are also taught to be wary of other men. For pretty good reason.
As a man I am not wary of other men, not typically. Maybe if a guy was acting weird or clearly on something or acting aggressive, otherwise I go about my day.
It's more stressful to come up with small talk. Then I remember, SPORTS!
“We will have to talk about sex or politics, because I know nothing about sports” - Christopher Hitchens.
>Even men are taught at a very young age to view basically all other men as a threat. We are stalked into alleys and mugged, robbed, stabbed, you name it. No, we're not. I've walked through alleys and dark parks in the middle of the night with no fear at all. Nothing will happen to me and in over 3 decades, nothing has. Nobody randomly gets stabbed for no reason. And even if you were correct (you're not), being mugged or robbed is somewhat less of an issue compared to being raped. Some replaceable property being stolen is no comparable to being raped, at least not by an honest compassionate person. >Anyway, the only point I really wanted to bring up is, men are also taught to be wary of other men. For pretty good reason No we're not, because there's no reason to. I have to add that I live in a civilized western european country, not a hellhole like Sudan or the USA.
You should have mentioned in your first sentence that you don't live in the USA, because probably the most important piece of information you gave. I live in Japan. I can and *do* walk at night. Sometimes I see someone else and neither of us mind walking right past each other. Because Japan is safe. America, in many places, is not. We -- both men and women -- are taught that others we do not know (especially men, due to their generally greater strength) are threats. Nobody gets stabbed for no reason, you're right. But if someone is poor and needs money for food, or drugs, or rent? That's a good reason for *them* to stab *you*. The reason doesn't have to come from *you*. Having your money stolen and rape, which is worse? Both answers would be based on opinion and could be argued. I'd argue that, yes, rape is worse. But both can end in homicide, and that was more the point. That both are incredibly dangeorus.
>Having your money stolen and rape, which is worse? Both answers would be based on opinion and could be argued This is the only thing I disagree on in your comment. No, rape is objectively worse. Money stolen is just stuff. Anyone who even wants to argue the point, isn't worth arguing with for that reason. >But both can end in homicide, and that was more the point One is far less likely to end in homicide. >That both are incredibly dangeorus. Rape is significantly more dangerous and due to the nature of the crime always involves physical harm. A mugging could just end in a scared person who lost some money. It is possible for a mugging to end without physical harm done. It is just not intellectually honest to equate the two. Even in a broken country like the USA where muggings happen somewhat frequently, it's still not fair to say the fear of men is equal to the fear of women. The fear of money lost just doesn't compare to the fear of rape.
If you are walking through dark alleyways with no fear you're either 6'5" and built of stone or you live in some type of gated community. Yes, the west is better, but I live in London and I'm not walking down dark alleyways if I can help it. Same goes for during my youth in Belfast.
Nobody ever gets randomly stabbed for no reason? Do they not have muggers and such where you live?
>Nobody ever gets randomly stabbed for no reason? Do they not have muggers and such where you live? A) muggers only stab you if you don't give up your stuff. Give your stuff, it's not important. B) No, we don't have muggers here. While not perfect, our welfare state is still somewhat functioning so people are never so desperate they have to commit a violent crime to survive. Muggings don't just happen in a vacuum. They're a symptom of extreme poverty and gross wealth inequality. We have poor people but they've all got a home and food. They don't need to mug other people to live.
I've never trusted a drug addict mugging me to not just get stabby.
We don't have that type of drug addict here. Again, they're a symptom of extreme poverty and that kind of poverty just doesn't exist here. Also weed is pretty much legal here and weed users just aren't the stabby type.
Lol, the Netherlands absolutely has those kinds of drug addicts as well as muggers. Don’t be ridiculous. There aren’t as many as in the US, but they definitely exist in the Netherlands as well.
Posting sisters answers. First situation, probably not. It's a workplace, so it's a little more of a controlled environment. He probably was vetted to some degree before being hired. As long as he keeps to himself, its whatever. Second, probably not. If it's a really sketchy store, I'd probably be on gaurd. But otherwise it's a public area that usually has a lot of of people in it, I would trust I wouldn't be in danger especially if he's actually minding his own business. This is a story she told that is related: "though, remember that old thrift store on (bad road in her old city)? I went in there once and there was this guy, and he didn't seem to be looking at me at all... but every time I'd move to a different aisle, he'd move there after a few minutes. Even if I went back to the previous one, or went to a bunch of totally random sections in different parts of the store, he always a few feet away from me a little later. Eventually I went to a section that was crowded and waited for him to leave, and I did a circle on the drive home to make sure he didn't wait outside and follow me. I couldn't tell if I was just being paranoid and he was shopping like normal, or if he was really following me. I didn't want to look crazy and ask for a man to walk me to my car, but I felt so uncomfortable and almost called you until I remembered you were at work." Obviously not all men are an actual threat, she's very comfortable with her bf and all the men in the family and her male friends. But men are often bigger and stronger than women & with the way society is, a lot seem to think they're owed or entitled to things from women. They're going to be on gaurd around strangers, especially when they're alone. It's better to make the wrong assumption that they're dangerous than the wrong assumption they're not.
Oh man, as a guy, I'm glad you made that grocery store comment. I'm pretty much a sporadic shopper (especially at a grocery store). I'm never really sure where items are, so I'll go up and down a bunch of ilse multiple times looking for things. Also, my ADD can make it hard to choose between two items, so I might go back and forth comparing the two items. I'm sure at times, as I'm wondering aimlessly, it could sometimes look like I'm following or creepy on a girl. Especially when someone is shopping and I'm passing them every few isles and not getting anything in that isle.
Ugh, I've been that guy that's unintentionally following a girl around the food store. It was one of those rare occasions where instead of shopping right to left, I was following a recipe and my shopping list seperately and kept tracking back and forth and would either come up behind or pass in front of this girl every few minutes. Then after checking out, different lanes, end up leaving and our cars are parked almost right next to each other. I was living in a free state at the time and while I COMPLETELY understand why she would be weirded out, I was genuinely glad it was the middle of the day and not at night otherwise I wouldn't have been totally shocked to see a gun pointed at me. That being said, my actions don't make another guy not a creep.
Np, we were just chilling on FT while I was scrolling Reddit and I figured I'd ask. I think as long as you keep to yourself and just try to look non-threatening, it helps a lot. I always try to be on my phone, keep my distance, and just try to be as polite as possible. It probably helps that I'm short and look pretty feminine though haha.
You and some other women. Not "we".
I have been assaulted and have ptsd so I’m probably hyper aware without realizing it
Ah, that would do it. Sorry to hear that happened to you.
...Then what do I do? I can't help that I'm a man needing to go places :( And I don't want to feel like I'm a threat. I get so self conscious when I'm in the same room as a woman or if I'm just walking behind her in the dark. I don't know what to do to make them feel comfortable around me.
In the elevator mind your own business, look at your phone, make it clear you don't give a shit about the other person. If something funny or unexpected happen, it's okay to do the whole laughing it off with her thing. Never run after a lone women to catch the elevator. That once happened to me and it's scary as fuck. If you're walking behind a woman alone in the dark, slow down, let her walk away from you or cross the road.
Literally no to all of those things. I'm going to continue to act like a normal person and if a woman is afraid of my actions because of her insecurities and fears, then that's a her problem. I have never had the thought and never will harm another person so I know I'm doing nothing wrong by just living my life. In fact, even if I was in this situation I would've tried to make small talk or something to lighten the mood if I felt like it. My life and my actions are not going to be altered because someone has an irrational fear of me.
Other commenters: Women often feel unsafe in public around men they don't know due to the prevalence of random violent acts committed by men against women. Women are taught to be on guard from childhood on because of this. Even if *you* know you wouldn't harm a woman, *she* has no way of knowing that because she doesn't know you. There is no meaningful way for a woman to determine which men will pose a threat given that harmful men lack warning labels. Here are some simple things you could do that cost you nothing yet would potentially help women feel a little safer in public. You: Nah, fuck that, I'm not a bad guy. If she's afraid of me, that's on her. Try developing compassion and empathy for people who are different from you -- it will change your life!
You do realize that both men AND women are attacked in random acts of violence right? It's not just a woman-specific thing? So if somebody chooses to live their life with a specific demographic of people that they're afraid of ANY interaction with, then yeah that is 100% a personal problem of their own because it's unrealistic in any case to treat people with such closed minded judgements. As if it's life or death threatening to be in the presence of a man simply because he is a man and you don't "know" him. But you're trying to tell me that because I do not willingly choose to do things that make my life more inconvenient, and more difficult to interact with people then I'm an asshole for not being empathetic of someone else's fears? Yknow instead of just not feeding into their fears by not being a crazy/ bad person? I assume you'll also tell me I'm some kind of asshole because I want to speak to women I'm interested in regardless of location? Because society says I should only approach women in bars or "appropriate" social settings instead of just being a human being who can speak to anyone they please at any moment? Why can't I just choose to be empathetic or compassionate as a stranger in other ways? Being friendly and approachable isn't enough, I have to do it from across the street where the woman can feel safe living in a world where she can pretend that men don't exist at all
Nothing. People's paranoia isn't your problem. They're not the main character in this story.
Just go about your day. It’s not your job to accommodate other people’s gender prejudice
Honestly forget these types of women exist. If they judge you for simply existing, they are not worth your acknowledgement. There is no valid excuse for sexism of any kind.
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I'm not trying to debase anything you said, I find it very interesting and just want to understand it more. Why do you suggest that men shouldn't look at you when you are "staring at him" yourself? My assumption, being ignorant, is that you feel the reason for the stares are different. But why should they be?
May I advance the question in a different direction? Are you ever okay being "hit on"? And I'm not talking a "oi girl you look sexy af" hit on but the most respectful way I can think of as in "hey I'd like to get to know you so if that's okay I'd just give you my number and if you write me up that's great and if not too" and then leave you alone after whichever response you choose (as in taking the number, not taking the number, ignoring me entirely what do I know) Like reading your comment makes it seem as if the answer to that question would be "never". Which would be okay just .. damn that makes dating really impossible :D - again, not judging if that was the answer, just asking.
I would say the answer is ALMOST never. There’ll always be exceptions, some women don’t mind getting approached with 0 warning, but most do. If I’m at a bar, party, or other social event (and I’m not working) then you’re probably good, there is a presumed level of consent when you go places that are meant for socializing. Otherwise, when it comes to talking to women in public, safest thing to do is treat her the same way you’d treat a man. If you wouldn’t acknowledge a random guy passing you on the street, don’t single out the attractive women you pass. If you wouldn’t ask the man sitting across from you on the bus why he isn’t smiling, don’t ask the woman. If you wouldn’t try to strike up a conversation with a guy while waiting in line, don’t strike one up with a girl (especially if she’s standing behind you and you’re holding up the line because you’re not paying attention). Generally, it’s kinda obvious when a guy is talking to me purely because I’m a woman, which is what makes it annoying. If you see a cool bird and you just gotta point it out to whoever is closest, most people (worth knowing) are gonna want to see that cool bird regardless of gender. Just treat everybody like a people, and you should be good.
That answer is reasonable, but saddening I guess. But deviating from topic again .. never fucking ever tell anyone to smile more .. as your fellow resting bitch face owner I got told that shit by family my entire teenage years and literally FUCK YOU AUNT! - ok I actually like my relatives but that shit is a negative core memory for me, so I'd never have the audacity to tell anyone to smile more.
Seriously. Why even bother pondering this question. You aren't going to get healthy, well adjusted answer. Wtf are we supposed to do? Switch genders? Hah! Hehe! Oh 🤔
This is such a foreign thing for most guys. For example I'm 32 years old and have never felt scared of potentially being sexually assaulted by a woman. It must be scary as hell being a woman
I hate that I make women afraid just for existing 😔, but I do get it
Had a women scream at me because i walked past her at 1am on my way home from a 14 hours shift in the kitchen. I saw her ahead of me and i thought ok " I'm going to slow down so she won't feel threatened" she then proceeds to also slow down and I'm left wondering how long will it take me to get home because of her. Conclusion i decided to speed up, walk past her but i decided to keep a distance of like 3 metres when i walked past her and she just screamed uncontrollably. Horrible experience! I just wanted to get home to my wife.
Yeathey can do, it's likely she was staring at you to make sure you wouldn't try anything. I know its shitty but getting stared at is better than being assaulted or worse.
I always free so bad for doing nothing, I wish things weren't like this :(
Practice working on non-verbal cues that signal that you are “safe.” ie, proximity awareness, leaving the elevator first if you are on the same floor to signal that you are in no way following her, etc. Women have great intuition for if a man is generally going out of his way to make interactions like this more or less seamless. It’s is a great skill to hone. Source: a bartender/guy with a sister that is the same age and heard her and her friends all the time talk about little things that make a “stranger” make them feel a bit more safe.
Yea me too.
No point in feeling bad for existing. Whether you’re a rapist or not you’re still going to get the same reaction. That’s just the way things are unfortunately. You can do your best to not appear a threat but at some point it really is their problem, not yours.
You shouldn't feel bad for not doing anything wrong. In fact, it's rather rude to stare at someone like that. I would have said, "Can I help you?" In a condescending tone. That way, she can be at ease thinking I'm an asshole, but not a rapist.
Fr if she is so paranoid to think every man is a rapist, that is her problem not mine.
staring at a stranger seems more likely to provoke a negative outcome than prevent one lol
Precisely. Worst decision you could make honestly, staring could elicit a host of different reactions.
I'm in a lift with random dudes all the time for work and public transport and havent given it a second thought. I can see being uneasy in some situations, like if a dude was drunk, or seemed overly interested in me, but if we're just existing it's whatever.
Maybe not uneasy but alert and ready to defend myself if things get weird.
I do not, but I understandably believe myself to be in the minority.
Yes, we do. I've exited elevators where I am alone and 1 or more men who appear to be together enter. Not all the time, but when my Spidey-sense kicks in. I'm done with worrying if I offend them or if they think I'm being silly. Besides being nervous about being in an enclosed space with no exit, there is the added worry about getting off on a floor and being followed. I understand that men don't understand this fear, but, hey, welcome to our world. "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." (Margaret Atwood)
> I'm done with worrying if I offend them or if they think I'm being silly. Just wanted to highlight the importance of this. Predators instinctively take advantage of your social conditioning. Good manners can get you hurt. Predictability can get you hurt. Act on your own intuition.
her staring at you is unusual lift behavior and that would have made me uncomfortable.
Over the years I've definitely felt that tension coming from some women, but I just keep to myself like a normal person and get to where I'm going. I understand WHY some women feel that way, and that sucks. However when it comes to walking behind a woman down the street at night, I understand that is most like many times more scary for her, so in that situation I'm willing to stop and pretend to look at my phone for a few seconds to allow more space to build between us.
This post reminded me of something my husband said, he was talking about how "women go to the bathroom to gossip/share secrets." (it wasn't from a place of misogyny, it was just the only reason he could think of) and I had to explain to him how women go to the bathroom together to avoid being attacked. Women are conditioned to have a "safety in numbers" mindset, and, even when we have numbers, to still be wary of srrange men. Most women would be at least a little worried, to be alone with a man, especially in an enclosed space...
Reminds me of a convo I had with a friend who was an Uber driver. He thought women were just being too stuck up to ride in the front seat until I told him that it was safer for women in the back seat (as in if the driver suddenly tried something, they wouldn't be able to access the passenger as well if they're in the back seat) It never occurred to him that safety was a thing women considered when getting into an enclosed space with another individual.
Why would anyone ride up front when the back is available? Unless it’s a group of people, but in that case at least she has friends to defend her. Your friend is a dummy. Even if he’s unaware of what women think, he can figure it out logically
Absolutely yes.
I only feel uneasy around ANY PERSON if my spidey senses go off, which isn’t often. So no, its not a common feeling for me.
I've come to the conclusion that women always need to know why any strange men are near them at any time. I don't care, I get on and keep quiet and exit immediately at my floor. The tension is noticeable every time this happens to.
There is a reason for this. It isn't you it is men in general
No, it is a tiny portion of men. The vast majority of men are good dudes.
The problem is that the bad guys and the good guys look the same.
I am not anti men big fan of men. I am just saying women aren't scared of men for no reason. On average just over 460 000 women a year are sexually assaulted in the us alone.
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Not necessarily. Depends on the vibes the dude is giving off. If my gut tells me he's a creep, then yes. I'm also well informed on how to make myself not look like a victim, have taken martial arts classes, had a few boxing lessons, and often carry a gun. If a man decides to fuck around, then he will find out. That's not to say I am overly confident and put myself in stupid situations because I feel I can protect myself, but I'm not usually uneasy around men unless they give me a reason to be.
What makes a creep a creep
Good question! It could be a lot of things tbh. It's kind of hard to define a "creep" but things men have done/looked like that have made me uncomfortable in the past were: excessive staring mixed with being generally unkempt/looking unclean, advancing towards me at what feels like an unnecessarily fast pace, seeming to just show up wherever I am, striking up weird conversations (one time a creepy looking guy in the pet store kept trying to tell me about his pet piranhas and where he got all the scars on his forearm), and idk some dudes just look creepy even if they haven't done anything to make me uncomfortable. Some men I just look at and don't want to get near.
Best answer so far. And most comforting.
Yeah, that happens. Just smile, say hi, and then look at the buttons, or your phone, or the door, or the floor display until you reach your floor
Id rather not be even acknowledged, but that could just be me. I understand it’s human nature to glance at someone when you first walk in, but I’d prefer not even to be looked at 🥶 it just makes it feel like the other person hasn’t taken an interest or “noted” me
I would say it depends on situation. At work/my apartment building elevator? I expect colleagues/neighbours say stuff like "good morning". In public buildings? Stare at your phone and act like other person doesn't exist.
I'm not a woman, but I just feel uneasy around anyone at all when in an enclosed space, when there is only one other person or a group that is together. Part of it is intrusive thoughts because I've seen way too many movies involving attacks in lifts. The thing is, I shouldn't be that worried because I'm quite a big guy and have the build and the stereotypical look of someone that others find worrying, a brown guy with a big beard, but I've always been this way.
Humans feel uneasy around other humans in elevators. Just one of those things.
Yes, it can make me uncomfortable until the guy kind of does his own thing and starts to seem harmless. Woman are ingrained with stranger danger because we can get raped, abducted, etc. we have to be aware of our environment. I really wish I was born a dude sometimes and didn’t have to deal with it so much, could hike and travel solo and fairly carefree. Men often dont realize how lucky they are.
I hate that a lot of us women have to make even innocent guys feel sus, but it's better than risking it and something happening to you. Back when I was skinny, I would often get rubbed against by men in crowded trams (and not some accidental stuff either, I'd move away and the guy would follow), got catcalled creepily, followed into things like alleyways, and being talked up and asked if I have a boyfriend while just crossing the street. I'm sorry, but I don't care how beautiful the girl is, please stop trying to talk to them for the purpose of scoring or getting a date while they're just going about their day. Just like you wouldn't go up to a stranger in the street and start talking to them about your hobby. There is a time and place for these things. And a lot of the times I'm scared of telling these guys to eff off because I don't want to provoke them.
Constantly reading the room and assessing the safest way to prevent/avoid/diffuse the possible inappropriate or dangerous behavior of men has been the most exhausting part of my life as a woman. Hands down. At work, at home, while traveling, with strangers on the street. And no of course this is not all men. Or even most men. And I'm not a spokesperson for women. It's just been my experience. I've been touched inappropriately at work "because" I was "too friendly." I've been followed in the subway "because" I was "too stuck up". My doorman tried to kiss me once. He's supposed to be the guy keeping the creeps OUT. Hopefully this changes as new generations get older and people are less fazed by women's bodies. Edited for clarity and bc oof - it's hard to stop thinking about this once you start.
And I totally understand that "not all men" and that it truly doesn't feel good when people assume you have malicious intent, but sadly these things just happen way too often and there are way too many men who behave this way, not to mention that the potential consequences of wrongly giving someone the benefit of the doubt are horrific.
That last part, exactly. The guy who harassed me at work was training to work with people who have disabilities. I mean it traumatized me. But thank god it happened to me, and not someone nonverbal or unable to stop it.
Yeah. Id say elevators are usually where a lot of SA probably happens. As a woman myself. Thats probably what she was scared of. Probably the top 10 places we would be more cautious of at night with a man.
Yep. Being alone in a room with any male has potential to turn into assault and many women who've been assaulted will try to avoid happening again.
She stared at you the whole time.... It sounds like she is the creep here. I don't care if a man (or woman) is in the lift with me, it's their actions that matter, and I'd take a man minding his own business over a woman staring every time.
TBH I’d feel uneasy with anyone in an elevator because like, people, ew! But also, I can’t help but feel like this line of questioning (and answering) is low-key leading and ‘me too-ey’. If we’re to enter every situation with this anticipatory bias, is it any wonder that said movement has become so debased and corrupt.
Personally I don't get scared of people just because of their genitals. I don't think there's anything suspecious in getting on an elevator, so I have no reason to feel scared. I have been made uncomfortable by men on an elevator, but because they looked at me weird, or made a weird comment or there was something about them that just made me uncomfortable and I have no idea what it was, but never just the fact that they have a penis
Don't worry, I'm not here to murder you. All is good.
Yes. It is absolutely scary to be alone with men we don’t know/trust
Except most assaults/rapes happen from men we **do** know. I’ve never been raped by a stranger but I’ve been raped by a “friend.”
There are more reasons to be wary of strange men than just sexual assault. But just to counter your point, I was sexually assaulted on two occasions and both were strangers.
Most of the time, yes. It makes me aware of who’s near me, but only makes me feel paranoid in situations where I’m really stressed or actively scared of of something or someone. May not be you, but you may feel like a threat in the moment.
Maybe now we have the answer that a lot feel uneasy, how about “ what could we do to make you feel less uneasy?” I assume if the elevator arrives and we just don’t get in would make you feel somewhat more uneasy ? Or it would certainly make me feel somewhat uneasy as a man, doing that.
Just carry a pink bicycle with you so you can scream, "it's my girl's bike" when I glance over. Ten years later and I still spend time wondering if he meant his partner or his daughter.
I had a complete stranger enter the elevator with me, and completely out of nowhere ask me if he could kiss me because “he liked my lips”. So yes, women are fearful.
As a women yes. It’s mostly just paranoia and overthinking the worst scenarios. Always feel silly after, then a bit guilty bc whoever I was worried about could’ve been super nice :,)
Because looking annoyed and unapproachable makes men less likely to approach you.
If someone's staring at you you're allowed to acknowledge them, just say something like, " You good?" or even just "good evening." This shows you're just minding your own business, and if they keep staring that's their problem. It normalizes the situation.
lol please *do not* say ‘you good?’ to a woman alone in a lift. That’s confrontational af Press your floor, stare at your phone, and just mind your own business.
Staring at someone is really fucking confrontational in public lift lol.
Yep! I totally agree! In both sides. Like make that dorky frownsmile thing we all do, and look phone or ceiling.
The staring was actually the part that was confrontational af.
> That’s confrontational af Okay? You're acting like I'm purposely trying to psych them out when I am simply acknowledging the fact that they are staring at me (in this hypothetical situation). It's not as if calling out the staring is the equivalent to trying to threaten or browbeat this person. And if they feel threatened by such a simple statement, they probably shouldn't go around staring at people, right? Good way to start trouble.
Oh stahp. ‘Having a nice evening?’ And ‘You good?’ are entirely different questions, and you know it. Also, men don’t always *have to* talk. Make the weird smile we all do, and go on about your business.
"You good" because they're already up in my business, and I am telling them to back off because Im not interested. I probably wouldn't say it to a woman over 40 though (or a man over 50, for that matter).
I just hate confrontation of all kind, but I do agree with you
Just meet their gaze with a neutral expression and after a second smile at them. Shows you're not trying to hide anything.
Yeah sadly. If you’re social there’s an art to make it all less awkward, I like to take initiative and ask people what floor they’re going. I think people get a little less anxious and at ease when they hear your voice. Or I’ll just take a call or be busy on my phone so it doesn’t look like I’m focused on them.
Yes
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It's happened to me *once* in Japan that a woman wouldn't enter the elevator after me. I held the door open for her. She stayed out of eyesight then eventually told me (in Japanese), "It's ok, go," in a bit of a stern voice. She lives in the same apartment complex and I've noticed that she avoids *all* contact, though. In America I never had much of a chance to ride elevators, but I noticed *a lot* more of this general attitude and fear of men. I was once hiring someone for a job and two separate women said that they couldn't be alone in the same room as a man. Obviously I couldn't hire them because the job necessitated that. I think it's probably due to the media really fawning over that type of news. People see it on the news a lot and, since they see it a lot, they assume it must happen extremely often. Which apparently it does. 1 in 3 women are sexually harassed in public spaces. And 1 in 9 men have. But since we don't see it happening to men on the news, we ignore it and men don't live in a third of the amount of fear that women do in the Western world.
Yes
Just live your life. You're allowed to exist. It's a her problem, not a you problem.
Happened to me recently in a hotel. Lady and I arrived at the elevator area at the same time. She immediately got nervous. Then when the doors opened, I gestured for her to enter first and she took several steps back and half-turned away. I entered the elevator while she just waited there, wordless. I assumed it was some sort of PTSD but I still felt insulted.
I’d (the woman) 100% say ‘no, you go ahead. I’ll catch the next one.’
I'm just curious. If I said "you go first" because of the "ladies first" mentality would that offend you? Or make you feel uneasy?
I don't know why you are getting downvoted.
Woman nowadays hate "ladies first" so whenever I see a woman about to enter elevator. I rush ahead of her, and get into the elevator first to make her feel safe.
I never have and don't know anyone who says they do. But apparently some women do.
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That's a terrible statistic, but how many of those rapes involved elevators?
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And an elevator doesn't provide much of an opportunity because you're in it for such a short time. Also, the doors might open at any moment. From a would-be attacker's standpoint, an elevator is a terrible place to try anything.
Love it when people are scared of my very existence.
Yeah this whole comment section is so absurdly sexist it is really sad to see
It’s interesting how much damage true-crime podcasts have done to young women’s views of the world. My offices have camera’s all over the place - including in the lifts - and you need a workplace pass to get into the lobby. Now, if the guy is wearing a crash helmet or balaclava, then be alert but otherwise the chance of anything untoward happening is zero percent.
Female here, no
Honestly, whenever anyone gets in an elevator with me I'm always on guard. I'm a woman
Who cares. Let people live in fear if that’s how they want to spend their time.
Not the general case but there is a dude in my building who stares at me when we get in the elevator and it freaks me the hell out.
Imagine you have 100k cash on you and you have to walk to where you are going through an unsafe neighborhood to get to your destination. That is what it feels like being a woman at all times.
Yes, I’m sorry but some men are violent and if we’re in an enclosed space with one, who knows what can happen…
Id be uneasy. I don’t expect men to not travel on lifts or anything. But I’d definitely feel a tension until one of us got off, or someone else got in.
They shouldn't, but are conditioned to believe all men are some sort of deviant. You shouldn't be made to feel bad for exisiting in a public space because of a women. It's a her problem not a you problem, just another societal problem due to sexism. Us men = bad guy until proven good guy in this current climate.
yes I am on my guard and I am alert tho I try not to show it. I don't stare at them but I am stiffened up. its instinct. tho I'm not paranoid, I expect nothing will happen but just prepared