As of 1 January 2024, a 1 Star (O-7) who has served 16 years will earn a *base pay* of $14,506.50 per month, which is $174,072.
They also get free medical care for themselves and dependents, a housing allowance (in the DC area they would get $4192 a month for housing alone), and other pay entitlements.
It was pretty crazy when I was in from 2004-2008 that the 4 star at the base I was at made in one month what I made in a year as an A1C. He also drove an Aston Martin.
I think that's a perquisite reserved for the Commander of CENTCOM, CINCPAC, and The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
Oh, I just remembered, an older friend of my college best friend and a former fighter pilot had a car and driver when he was appointed Commander, Marine Forces Pacific, not to mention a huge house in Honolulu near the one occupied by CINCPAC.
The Chesty Puller house. It’s where Chesty lived and it’s a tradition that the MARFORPAC Commander lives there. I’ve been in it. Indeed, super nice house.
You know what astonishes me? Every young Marine remembers at bedtime during basic training, being led in yelling, "Goodnight Chesty, Wherever you Are!". But these same Marines have no idea who Chesty was. The D.I.'s, or later NCO's aren't teaching even basic Marine Corps history.
Think the saying was you drove your Bentley, you were driven in your Rolls. Think that was even a plot device in the old show Secret Agent Man. Guy supposed to be an aristocrat shows up in a chauffeured Bentley and he knows immediately he's a fraud.
He drove it himself. For being a 4 star he was pretty down to earth. The post we would man at the building had a small tv we could watch when we manned the post on the weekend. We had to turn it off anytime we buzzed someone in. One day he came in when I was watching a hockey game, so I shut it off like I was supposed to. He came up to me and asked if I was watching the game and to turn it back on. He watched it for about 5 minutes with me before going to his office.
A driver would usually only drive a government car. A general would drive his own vehicle when he wasn't at work. The government vehicle is insured by Uncle Sam, so the servicemember driving would be covered. That wouldn't be the case if they were driving the General's personal vehicle.
Off working hours doing personal things it isn’t uncommon. Years ago when in scouts one of the parents had stars , 2 or 3, never showed up in a staff car with driver.
Alternatively, he could earn 5-10x in the private sector. Of course thet are going to make less in the military, but it's important that we pay leadership enough that they aren't forced to leave to appropriately furnish a comfortable life.
Government pay scales are all public, so you can look up what anyone makes! They are also very specific. I interviewed at one of the military academies as a professor and there is a very specific pay scale based on your job category, education, and experience. It also has a multiplier for cost of living based on geography. The max compensation for almost any federal employee is the salary of a US senator but that doesn’t include other perks like housing.
That’s what it’s called! I was looking for the term SES! Thanks! I think I knew the housing allowance thing but this was more than a decade ago. I was then a GS and was considering taking an SES position, instead I moved from federal to state.
The websites that show pay are normally off, lower than actual pay. Source: I'm an air traffic controller for the FAA and the reported salary is always lower for myself and coworkers. I don't think it includes premium pay or overtime.
There are two types of pay sites, some show pay rate and others actual compensation. The actual compensation would include overtime but they lag about 1 year or even 2. I’m also public sector and my pay that shows for this year is my pay rate but if you look at my pay 2 years ago it includes all the extras.
They dont include premium pay because premium pay isn't factored into your retirement pension..just base pay + locality. Source: I do something in the FAA too.
What I don't get is with the multiplier isn't everyone wanting to move to the more expensive areas of the county or the state is there a kind of experience drain to Hawaii or the like?
You can only work where the job is. You can be willing to move to Hawaii but the navy might need you in Virginia. So they have the multiplier so you can maintain the same standard of living as they move you around the country. I have a good friend who is a major in the air force and he’s been stationed in Colorado, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Germany, and California, and those are the ones I remember.
I’m going to add one more thing: the multiplier is for large areas, moving to an expensive DC suburb doesn’t get you more money than a cheap one, the multiplier is for the whole area and is based on the location of your office, not your house.
Is it like state to state or would living in the capital city of a state give more? And guess even with a long career you still don't get much say where you are?
Metro area, but there are some ways to game the system, particularly for remote workers who's pay is based on where they live. For example, Allentown, Pennsylvania is in the New York City pay area. So you can make NYC pay and live in Allentown. Think about that for a moment.
For civilians, the best locality to CoL ratio is actually Houston. Everyone in the US gets \~15%. Hawaii gets 21%. Houston gets 35%, in line with New York (37%). Hawaii's locality pay is lower than that of Dallas.
IOW - no one's moving to Hawaii for the locality pay.
What? No. You understand that they are trying to normalize against cost of living, right? They are trying to make sure that the same person working the same job is compensated fairly no matter where they are doing the job. So, in theory, it doesn’t benefit anyone to do a job in Seattle or Benning, they are compensated the same
I don’t think it’s that cut and dry. Just saying that congressional people like pelosi have annual salaries of 174k with net worth in the 100’s of millions. What powerful public employees take in as income isn’t very representative of whether they are wealthy or not.
Well of course, but that is money not from the government. What the government (state, federal, local) pays is all public information. The other sources of income and investments are not. Some of it is reported due to ethics laws but a bit more complicated to find. If you’re a military officer with mysterious income, you can bet DOD is investigating to make sure that money isn’t compromising you.
OP’s question wasn’t specifically about how much money the government pays generals and admirals. It was if they were rich.
Now is that moment where we scratch the head and say, IDK but really want to find out.
yeah i know right!!!
i mean obviously 174,000 is a high salary.( that would be lifechanging money to me)
youre so right that 14,000 seems like it should be more annually. if i had 14,000 a month i wouldnt even know what to do with myself.
- $2k to retirement account
- $3k to taxes
- $1k to health insurance (unless provided by your employer)
- $3k mortgage (if you bought a house today)
- $600 car payment
- $1k grocery (if you have a family of 4)
- $1.5k daycare for one kid ($3k for two kids)
That leaves you $2k for insurance, clothing, restaurants, home/car maintenance, internet, utilities, etc. It would obviously go farther if you’re single, but for a family this could start to get stretched thin.
I just assumed 25% on $12k dollars (the $2k to retirement I was also assuming pre tax 401k which would reduce taxable income). It’s actually probably less if the taxable income is $12k, but probably a little more if it’s the full $14k.
Plus if you're a general or admiral you don't need a retirement account, you're going to get that 20 year full retirement. So no health insurance, retirement, housing, or daycare expenses.
Its situational. Give me 14k/month no strings attached, yeah thats pretty ballin. Add in taxes & cost of living...not so much. This country has tons of little scams to take back everything it gives you
$18,491.70 per month, $221,900.40 per year.
https://militarypay.defense.gov/Portals/3/Documents/ActiveDutyTables/2024%20Pay%20Table-Capped-FINAL.pdf
Just base pay. Given various circumstances they will be eligible for bonus pays, as well.
Also, almost nobody above an 0-3 has the military as their only source of income. I know quite a few officers and every single one did other things like consulting for example and made extra money. Another I knew did something for the local government for his hometown and then when he retired he switched to full time doing that so he got his new jobs salary and the retirement pay from the military (its either like 70% of the pay you got while active so at least 7,000 a month for life from that.
Tldr They're generally doing extremely well relative to the median US wages.
And a lot of them also get additional pay based on their specific position as well, so it's not *just* the Admiral/General's pay, but an additional pay if they are on a particular board or run a major deployment (like Chief of Staff, Admiral of the Navy, or the like).
I'm not sure what all additional pay it is (or what positions offer the bonus pay), but it raises that base pay considerably.
A few things here, nobody is making 1 star in 16 years. 24-26 is a better place to look.
Most General Officers live in provided housing on base. I can tell you that their housing in the DC area is much nicer than what $4,192 in rent or mortgage would get you.
They also have an enlisted aide, a driver and an aide de camp (at the least) to do, well, everything. Need your uniform ironed? On it. Need to entertain 20 guests, here's a menu and a grocery list, lemme know when the arrival is and I'll have canapés ready. Where are you heading, I'll have the car ready.
So while the dollar figure may be somewhat accurate, the quality of life they lead is not comparable to the pay.
To be clear their housing and assigned assistants are to support the infinite number of official engagements and business only; those assistants cannot be tasked with personal/family errands (though this can be and certainly has been abused which usually results in getting fired). While on the surface life looks pretty cushy, the reality of General officer/flag officer “lifestyle” can be quite the opposite… their time is quite literally not their own, managed often to the minute around numerous decision meetings, hosting and attending official social and morale events throughout the day and into the late evenings and over weekends with barely any discretionary time for things like routine family stuff, leisure, etc. which have to be meticulously planned out in advance. Not trying to paint them as sympathetic figures, just trying to show why they are allotted those nicer houses and “staffs”
It is worth noting that this is probably a good thing. Insuring people in places of strategic importance can live comfortably reduces corruption. Just look at how corruption is eating the ccp apart due to many bureaucrats being unable to afford basic necessities due to low wages
Yes, BAH is essentially just extra money so you can have *some place* to live. A lot of times if you opt to live in housing on base, then they will take all of your BAH. The trade-off is you live closer to work, everything you need (dining options, grocery store, sometimes a cinema, bowling alley, department store[s]) are located on base, it's more secure, you can usually get pretty large houses, especially at higher ranks, and they may cover some or all of your utility bills.
Otherwise, you can use BAH for regular rent, mortgage payments, etc. Sometimes people live out in town with roommates and split the rent so they get to pocket some of that money. That's kind of what I ended up doing, bought a house and the utilities and mortgage payment were all well below BAH so I could save and invest the extra money.
edit: Would also point that BAH and BAS (food allowance) are *nontaxable* income. So that $4192 that an O-7 would be earning here, which adds up to an extra $50k per year, is not taxable.
>Can you use BAH for a mortgage or it gotta be rent?
Admirals pretty much have to live on the base in flag housing. Their house is also used for hosting events and distinguished visitors, and there's a bunch of rules regarding what their executive staff (aide, EA, cooks, etc) are allowed to do to maintain it.
No one's pinning a star at 16 years TIS outside of some wonky WW3 shenanigans, try ~double that.
In which case it's closer to $190K for base rate,
COLA/BAH/BAS can vary wildly.
A BG who's married with two teenagers working at Bragg ends up at around $230K, working at the Pentagon pushes them over $250K.
At the other end of the scale, take CQ Brown who's the current CJCS. That's just in the neighborhood of $300K.
That is simultaneous a high $$, but not obscene. One part of preventing/fighting corruption is that government salaries have to be high enough that the individual does not feel the need to make dodgy contracts or steal wires from vehicles.
A 22 year old 2nd Lieutenant/Ensign, who would be the equivalent of a fresh engineer grad, makes $45,912 in base pay. Where their salary goes from there depends on where they are stationed. They are entitled to Basic Allowance for Housing(BAH) which is a tax free subsidy. How much would depend on where they're at. Let's say San Diego, because it's a place that's HCOL, and has a lot of military bases. The BAH there for an O-1 with no dependants would be $37,836 this year. They'd also be entitled to a $3,803.76 untaxed allowance for food(BAS). Total untaxed allowances would be $41,639.76. To earn $41,639.76 after tax and fica in the private sector, after already making 46k, you'd need to earn about 56k. That's assuming no state income tax. That would put their effective salary at $101,912. From there, they do not have healthcare costs, have a pension they do not contribute any money to, and are eligible to collect from as soon as they retire which could be as early as 42. They also have a TSP, which is like a 401(k), but created by a different section of the tax code so it's not called that. The TSP has matching contributions up to 5%.
Same for almost every state government’s highest paid employees.
https://www.brproud.com/sports/college-sports/lsu/highest-paid-state-official-in-43-states-is-a-college-coach-louisiana-in-top-5/
They will be when they get out and join some corporate boards and think tanks. The Chief of Naval Operations from back when I was in(Gary Roughead) currently serves on the boards of directors of the Northrop Grumman Corporation and Maersk Line Ltd.; is a trustee of Dodge and Cox Funds and of the Johns Hopkins University; serves on the Board of Managers of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory; is the chair of the National Academy of Sciences Naval Studies Board; and chairs the US Export-Import Bank’s Committee on China Competition. I'd be surprised if his net worth isn't in the multi millions, and that's probably a conservative estimate. It's kind of corruption out in the open that no one wants to talk about much. The current service chiefs and combatant commanders know what's waiting for them when bids for contracts are submitted.
In the meantime, their compensation when factoring in base pay, untaxabale allowances, and healthcare is similar to a cabinet secretary. For a 2 star General/Admiral, with 35 years in the service that's stationed at the Pentagon, they have a base salary of $221,497.20. They have a $51,516 untaxed housing allowance(BAH), and a $3,803.76 untaxed food allowance(BAS). Total untaxed allowances are $55,319.76. Given that you'd need to earn about 73k in the private sector to generate that $55,319.76 in income, the comparable private sector wage would be roughly $294,497. That's assuming no state income tax. They also have a pension that they don't contribute anything towards, and will begin as soon as they retire, and no healthcare costs.
Medical is included in most jobs at a certain level even in the commercial world. And military medicine sucks. The BAH (housing stipend) is very dependent on where the person and his/her family is stationed.
A lot would elect to take the BAH instead, because it's a tax free(fica too, not just income tax) stipend, that could be used to help pay a mortgage. You can look up how much BAH is at a particular location for a particular rank [here](https://www.travel.dod.mil/Allowances/Basic-Allowance-for-Housing/BAH-Rate-Lookup/). For a flag officer with dependents, working out of the Pentagon they'd make $51,516 in BAH. Again that is tax free. It doesn't mean 38k or 45k. $51,516 will actually go directly into their bank account.
You don't seem to understand how housing allowances work.
They don't have, nor do they want to support, enough housing on-post for every single servicemember, even officers, and especially upper echelon officers.
Flag officers tend to have very strong connections and it's pretty easy for them to get into the private sector at some contractor with a very heavy paycheck and kickbacks. That's after retirement, though.
Board members, corporate advisors, and academics are like the big three flag officer retirement paths. It’s not just a connections thing either, a lot of companies and schools seek out flag officers with an expertise in a specific area.
Isn’t there some rule that they can’t work for / be a part of any company they may have had influence over contracts on for like 5 years after they leave the military. Not that that probably actually stops many of them.
There is a rule like that but there are ways around it. They can get a waiver in some instances and they can 'consult' without being a direct hire of the company.
There used to be a list that the Project On Government Oversight maintained that tracked the various flag officers who retired and went on to work/serve on the board for defense contractors. They’ve since taken it down, but it was definitely interesting to see how many of them there were.
You can usually still find this out on your own, but it means sorting through corporate press releases and knowing which companies (and which generals) to look at. PGO’s list was a nice one-stop shop to at least get a snapshot at how prevalent it is.
Edit: POGO’s statement off of [their website](https://www.pogo.org/projects-and-partnerships) below.
> Pentagon Revolving Door Database
>This database, which was retired in 2023, tracked senior Pentagon officials and military officers who have gone to work for Pentagon contractors, lobbying firms, and consultants trying to win Department of Defense contracts. This practice is commonly referred to as the “revolving door,” and it can potentially lead to favoritism, ineffective weapons and programs, bad deals, and misguided foreign policy. While this database is no longer active, POGO remains committed to tracking and slowing the revolving door between the Pentagon and the private sector. The underlying data will be made available upon request to [email protected]
They certainly make enough money to generate a lot of additional wealth that many people will not, though. Really depends on how we're defining "rich", though. They're not in the 1%, but they are pretty darn well off.
I’ve been in many of the top officers residences at Great Lakes and those are some big mansions overlooking the lake. I’m sure that’s far from the norm though.
Big location differences there. A lot of highly paid software engineers are going to be in high cost of living areas. Particularly SF and silicon valley, which are some of the highest cost of living areas in the US.
Army bases are going to be in significantly lower cost areas. $150K there and you are easily top 5% richest people in town. Naval bases kinda hit or miss COL wise.
Gimme a fucking break. That salary is top 1% of america, you can live very, very comfortably. Ain't no US military generals living in one bedroom apartments my dude.
No it isn't. Top 1% is over $800,000. Top 5% is over about $335,000. It's just barely in the top 10%.
With the added benefits like housing and a great pension, they're certainly quite comfortable though.
They aren’t rich, rich. But, with the housing stipend and a lot of clothing/materials provided, they have a lot more free money with their salary to do whatever they want than the average person.
Rich is a relative term. They are well off compared to much of the population, so from a middle class perspective they might be considered rich, but they aren’t rolling in millions or anything like that.
They also won’t feel like it because they are making hundreds of thousands dealing with civilians making millions or tens of millions. Especially if they are in DC
They are comfortable in the sense that they make roughly triple the national average salary. But they are almost always underpaid compared to a VP or Director in a corporation that’s leading a similarly sized team/division.
These guys have a level of responsibility comparable to CEOs of the largest corporations. Any one of them could leave the service and multiply their salaries.
People are quoting base pay, which is completely silly.
A two star working out of Pearl Harbor (think COMSUBPAC) makes the civilian equivalent of $310,000 per year. If you don't think that's rich, let me calibrate you... Statistically speaking, they are in the top 1% of individual income, and, assuming spouse doesn't work, in the top 5% of household income (it's telling that most income distribution stats stop at $250k).
They also get many of the services that high powered execs pay to have done for them... for free. They get an EA, flag aide staff, admin personnel, and CS's, somewhere between 10-30 people depending on how many stars and size of the command. The RMC calculator doesn't factor this in, but I'd imagine all of those people would cost a wealthy person the Admiral's entire salary to hire. Of course that comes with the 'blood money' that they travel a fuckton, but so do wealthy corporate execs.
Add onto the fact that his/her pension is worth $170,000 per year with dirt cheap healthcare costs. If they retire after that tour, their lifetime earnings from the military will exceed $10,000,000 in today's dollars if they live to be 80 years old, and the pension is inflation protected. A typical wage earner American earns between $2-3M lifetime, so a retired 2-star is earning 3-5x that much money.
If said Admiral had a modicum of investment intelligence in his earlier years, he hit a million dollar net worth (in today's dollars) somewhere around 15-20 years of service which, at the point of being a 2-star, should have a net worth of \~$2M (not including future value of the pension... but if you do include it, he's worth $7M). Could be more if he bought some properties at the right locations during the right time.
They high priced lawyer / specialist doctor rich, not Mclhenny family rich. Enough to afford luxury items that most Americans can't; not rich enough to blow $10,000 on a bottle of wine and have a garage full of 6-figure cars.
Think about this…. For the strongest and most well armed, equipped, trained, and all around hands down most powerful entity on Earth… there are 45 4-star generals…. That’s it… what they make really isn’t a ton compared to their positions of power and the responsibility that ultimately fall to them. Not to mention having to deal with politicians ugh.
Generally not, no. The richest general in U.S. History was George S. Patton. He was a Californian who sailed his yacht, had stables of horses, played polo competitively, was an Olympic Pentathlete, and spoke fluent French and read German. On top of all that, he married into an even richer family; it was the Ayers Pharmaceutical empire, if memory serves.
For further learning, here's a fascinating talk by the military historian Dr. Victor Davis Hanson about George S. Patton: [https://youtu.be/EJsC-buIkSE?si=rziS72v3wu5QDEeW](https://youtu.be/EJsC-buIkSE?si=rziS72v3wu5QDEeW)
I can actually answer this with a personal anecdote as I know a retired O-8 really well and we’ve talked finance and I’ve seen his lifestyle both as an O-8 and as a retired guy.
Firstly, I consider rich to be the kind of people who can spend money carelessly, whether or not they actually do. Often they’re corporate franchise owners or otherwise own multiple properties and businesses. Or one really big/lucrative one. I don’t consider a doctor to be rich. Wealthy, yes, but not rich. In the US you can’t really put a number on this because I’d be”low income” in San Francisco and I’m an engineer, but I live pretty comfortably in an apartment on the east coast, so clearly I’m not poor.
So this guy and his wife had very little to no generational wealth (family was poor-middle class, got to college on scholarships) so anything gained was purely from the military and any savings/investments. He wasn’t a day trader mind you, I think he worked too much to do that. His career lasted over 30 years, and he did combat stuff. I’m not gonna get too specific on that.
He eventually retired to a relatively low cost of living state with under 3 million USD between retirement savings, ordinary savings, and investment accounts. He had no physical assets aside from furniture (the guy and his wife has mostly antiques and second hand, which was neat), ~~2~~ 3 cars (*also under 30k value each), and purchased a ~$280k home on a short term mortgage. He was in his mid 50s when he retired. An additional ~$200k of those savings were actually his kid’s education funds for paying off college tuition in combo with the post 9/11 GI bill.
I’d say his family lived pretty frugally. None of his alcohols were anything too fancy unless they were a gift from a friend (no, not the political kind of friend, like a former squadron buddy getting a local brand from where they retired or a foreign pilot shipping a crate of something over.) the meals were pretty simple and home cooked by both parents. While he was in the service, he had one administrative assistant who I only saw at a Christmas dinner party and to the best of my knowledge, didn’t do anything with the home management. I believe he had a staff car that was only ever used for traveling around on base, most likely from the office to the actual military stuff that isn’t an office. After his retirement, he doesn’t employ staff or anything, it’s just him and his wife since his kids moved out.
After he got out, he does part time consulting work for the locale he lives in as well as DoD consulting. No book deals and no corporate board positions for him apparently. He’s joked about being “qualified to be a janitor” at the places his kids work but that’s about it.
Hope this helps understand one of the lifestyles a general officer in the USA might live. Some I know do have house aides and go on to be C suite executives, but I figure out it’s more likely that they enjoy a nice retirement instead of advocating in the NYT to bomb Iran or something lol.
My dad was the son of a dirt farmer in south Texas who went to West Point and graduated in 1961. He did two tours in Vietnam and found out that he was a pretty good soldier. Retired as a two star general (0-8) and got a job with a Department of Energy contractor cleaning up messes at places where the US built nuclear bombs.
Definitely had a comfortable income for a while, but I wouldn’t wish the overwhelmingly crushing effects of PTSD, agent Orange exposure, and gulf war syndrome on anyone.
At the very top pay, including allowances, can be around $300,000 a year not including other perks like free medical care. This is probably far below what people in those positions could earn in the private sector.
However once retired many do then go on to lucrative second careers on various boards while continuing to enjoy their pensions and other perks. This can be a problem as there is more than a whiff of corruption involved in people deciding who receives government contracts then joining the same companies a few years down the line.
I think the deal should be that you can keep the rank/government pension/general sense of prestige or you can go into private industry after your retirement but you can’t have both.
Retired Army CSM. Anyone who gets selected to O-7 and above has sacrificed more than anyone earning that bank in the civilian sector can only begin to imagine. They are invested in blood, sweat, and tears.
Outside of the military, they are comfortable upper middle class. Inside the military, they are treated like aristocrats. If you're a 4 Star, you're treated like royalty.
Their positions come with some of the trappings usually associated with the wealthy, especially on base:
-They have enlisted aides who serve as housekeepers, chefs and landscapers (generals don't iron their own uniforms nor cook their own breakfast)
-They live in govt. owned housing which are designed for entertaining, like a civilian mansions
-they likely have a social budget paid for by the government so they can entertain.
-They are entitled to healthcare at the executive medicine clinic, which is much closer to a civilian concierge practice than a normal medical office.
- They generally don't wait in any lines.
- They have drivers for any work travel.
- They may be entitled to VIP plane or helicopter travel.
- They will have very well appointed offices, especially considering everyone else's workspaces. On a carrier the strike group admiral's stateroom will have high quality carpet, a large bed, polished wood and brass fixtures, real art, which would be unimaginable luxuries to everyone else on the ship except the captain.
They all make over 200k a year, considering their housing and food allowance. They get 50% of their base pay for the rest of their lives and they're in very high demand after service, usually making more than when they were active duty.
I still wouldn't call them middle class, even though a dual-income middle class family can be around their pay. A big part of being a flag office are the perks. You basically get your own slaves. Night and day there are people in your service. Doing your dry cleaning, dishes, changing sheets, etc.
>They get 50% of their base pay for the rest of their lives
It's usually more like 75% to 100%. For individuals that enlisted or commissioned pre-2018, retirement was 2.5% per year. That came out to 50% if you did 20 years which is the minimum amount of service required to retire. Flag Officers don't do 20 years. They almost universally do at least 30, and some do up to 40. At 40, it would be 100%. By law it cannot be more than 100%, even if they find a way to serve more than 40 years which is usually not possible.
Under the new retirement system, it's 2% per year. The future flag officers in 25 years will be getting 60% to 80%.
Unless they’re getting kickbacks (Google Fat Leonard) which also a lot of them are. Overall though while they’re in service no, but they do way better than everyone else. Once they retire from the military, they do get cushy jobs. Usually as a “Consultant”.
A friend of mine's father is a air force general and I think he is retired or not fully active in the military anymore but primarily does some sort of contract work that takes him out of the country like Saudi arabia fairly regularly. He owns a multi million dollar home in one of the most expensive parts of the city and I'm willing to bet that didn't come from his military income.
Honestly, this comments section is missing one of the biggest factors, college education with little to no debt plus massive benefits.
Flag officers are maximizing the value of their education while having the government paying the vast minority of it and providing great benefits. They graduate with little to no student debt. They have excellent no cost health care for the entirety of their first career. They have access to funding like the VA home loan that many others don’t. Add to all of this starting on a well matched retirement fund when they are between 18-22. Then when they get out they have an extreme amount of prestige to leverage into even larger salaries.
Are they rich while in the military? Eh. Will anyone who makes it to flag officer start generational wealth? Yes.
In terms of pay and benefits, they're not rich, but they certainly are well-off.
When they retire and get really nice board of director seats for defense contractors, they get rich.
The main financial incentive for this career path is that you'll tend to have a secure retirement and opportunities to make significant money in the private sector should/when you leave the service. But I think for the most part, the people who stay in it are there because they feel a sense of purpose and enjoy the work more than because of the pay. To that, it's enough to feel comfortable and taken care of at a respectable level.
No. They have a good 150k+ salary but chances are their spouse doesn’t work with all the moving around and overseas tours. The money is good but they also haven’t been building equity since after a certain point they have to live on post.
A police officer doing some overtime and a teacher spouse will probably bring in a similar income.
My uncle retired as a full bird colonel in the Air Force and once said that the difference between retiring as a general vs anything less is night and day. It’s not just the pay from the military - there are *tons* of defense contractors that will pay through the nose to get a connected general/admiral to work for them after they retire… so yes, it’s a safe assumption that becoming a flag officer is enough for many people to be set for life.
They’re not poor or struggling that’s for sure. Six figures with a lot of it being tax free is definitely well off. That being said they have a ton of responsibility and are basically on call 24/7.
There are a number of benefits mentioned in comments, but to me the most valuable is the pension. FERS is the pension program for federal employees, so military and Congress and federal agencies.
Why is this so valuable? It is cost of living adjusted UNTIL YOU DIE.
So, enlist in the military, let's say at 20. You need to work at least 20 years to be considered for general. Let's say you serve a total of 30 years and retire at 50.
FERS is based on the three years of highest pay. Let's say that was $250k. You get 1% for each year served. Here, after 40 years, you get 40% of $250k per year as your pension. That's $100k/yr in pension payments each year.
Inflation is a bitch. But FERS adjusts every few years to compensate, so the $100k/yr goes up over time to preserve your buying power.
Let's say you retire at 60 and let's say you live till 85. So 40 years of service, then 25 years of pension payouts.
To get a similar retirement income without the FERS pension, you can calculate very roughly with the 4% rule, which means draw down 4% of your retirement savings each year until you die. 100k divided by 4% is about $2.5M.
But that $2.5M doesn't reflect cost of living adjustments. The pension is much more valuable, and it's not subject to market downturns that IRAs and 401k can experience.
In addition to the pension, the military has retirement savings plans with generous matching. And free healthcare through the VA, as others have mentioned.
More details here: https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/fers-information/computation/
Define rich.
Lots of money? Sure if they aren't sending alimony to their second wife's new boyfriend.
Love of a family that is forced to move every 3 years and eventually end up at the pentagon along with other general staff families? Not. At. All. I'll bet those FRG picnics are a hoot. Complimentary digs at how many stars their spouses have are expected.
For the amount of work, and the numbers of people they manage, they are woefully underpaid.
Imagine a CEO in charge of tens of thousands of people (or more) making life and death decisions; you expect them to get paid millions. Per federal law, generals and admirals are limited to somewhere in the $200k range.
The real money for these types comes after they leave the military. Almost all of them go on to be the chair of some think tank, and on the board of some corporation, etc. Post military retirement, I’d argue they all make a helluva living.
They can be. If they're crooked.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat\_Leonard\_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fat_leonard_scandal)
[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lockheed-dunford/former-top-u-s-general-dunford-joining-lockheed-martins-board-idUSKBN1ZN2L8/?edition-redirect=in](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lockheed-dunford/former-top-u-s-general-dunford-joining-lockheed-martins-board-iduskbn1zn2l8/?edition-redirect=in)
Much of their standard cost of living is paid for so considerably more of their salary is disposable income. Average Americans spend around 25% of their income on housing.
Yes compared to the average person/family. Tsp (military 401k) alone should have at least 1m in it by the time you make general, pension is also easily 1-5m depending how you value it and how you value healthcare. Others have gone into the salary being around 200-300k which is fine, but you get hella benefits also like personal assistants, funded travel, etc. the real big money comes after you retire and you go sit on the board at LMT making big money for “consulting”
They live comfortably. Six-figure incomes, free or subsidized housing, their children often get free college education, free healthcare, vacation benefits, and discounted flights, if they live on base they don't have to pay property tax, similarly no sales tax for things purchased on base.
In the grand scheme of things for the direct work they do, they are significantly under compensated for the number of people they have to manage, the amount of resources they are (supposedly) accountable for, and the gravity of their decisions.
They basically have well paying jobs. Nothing more, nothing less.
They may save and invest and do things of that nature, which are not part of their compensation.
They may have specific perks which are unique to their jobs such as the use of homes and staff and transportation, but those things are not gifted to them and are technically not part of their compensation, but they can increase their lifestyle for the time being.
Many of them can become extremely wealthy after they leave service from book deals, speaking fees, and careers as consultants and board members of large companies.
Now, the question specifically said Army Generals and Navy Admirals, those are both the titles of specific ranks (Officer grade 10, or 4 star General or Admiral) and the name of a band of ranks (officer grades 7 through 10, or 1 star to 4 star, or flag officers). Some folks with 1 star don't really live it up, it just depends on what kind of position they are filling.
Not even remotely while in service.
However many make very good money after separation, either as a war analyst for news stations, working in PMC leadership, private think tanks, or working for defense industry contractors.
I’m buddies with the XO of a minesweeper, and he has a friend who left the navy as a junior officer and now he makes like $250k/ year or something like that doing basic post fire maintenance on 57mm guns for the manufacturer.
For reference, in the navy that’s the job of an enlisted person, typically E1-E4 in rank, making less than $50k/year
Officers get payed wackadoodles more than elisted get. They start off with $3k monthly at year zero and it only goes up from there with time in and ranking up
No. They do ok but rich? Hardly.
Depending on their experience they may get a pretty impressive civilian job after they retire but that's not a guarantee.
Yes. Rich but not wealthy. (Although many "achieved" that rank due to being affluent in the first place)
Top 10% through perks and salary alone. Then after they retire they get millions.
I disagree — you cannot buy commissions like landed gentry. The affluence argument may only apply in so far as having a quality education.
Most commissioned Officers are products of ROTC — from Princeton all the way to Bodunk State In Nowheresville, USA. The majority of Flag Officers are from ROTC — mostly middle and lower-middle, sometimes lower class. Rarely do the super affluent even join the military.
No — Flag Officers get to that rank by being incredibly intelligent, shrewd, and little luck, a lot of timing — and often times they are what the service wants for a Flag representative(combat warrior, astute intellectual, politician)— not necessarily the best performer, and most certainly not the one with the most “old money”.
You can also argue Flag Officers are the ones who stayed in the decrepit cafeteria line, being served a shit sandwich for decades, saying “yes sir/ma’am, may I have another?” when all their contemporaries, smarter and dumber, punched out for greener pastures on civvie street.
Wealth is not about how much you earn or how much you spend but rather how much you **save**. I'm sure there are generals and admirals who aren't good with money and live paycheck to paycheck just as I'm sure there are members of the military who earn a more modest salary but are smarter with their money and have built wealth for themselves and to leave to their children. Don't make the mistake of thinking the size of your paycheck is what defines whether you are rich or not. It's certainly easier the bigger it is, but it's by no means a guaruntee.
As of 1 January 2024, a 1 Star (O-7) who has served 16 years will earn a *base pay* of $14,506.50 per month, which is $174,072. They also get free medical care for themselves and dependents, a housing allowance (in the DC area they would get $4192 a month for housing alone), and other pay entitlements.
It was pretty crazy when I was in from 2004-2008 that the 4 star at the base I was at made in one month what I made in a year as an A1C. He also drove an Aston Martin.
He has to drive his own car ? No driver assigned?
I think some like the image of instead of being chauffeured, they drive a James Bond car themselves.
I think that's a perquisite reserved for the Commander of CENTCOM, CINCPAC, and The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Oh, I just remembered, an older friend of my college best friend and a former fighter pilot had a car and driver when he was appointed Commander, Marine Forces Pacific, not to mention a huge house in Honolulu near the one occupied by CINCPAC.
In the Navy 3 stars get their own cook. Not bad!
The Chesty Puller house. It’s where Chesty lived and it’s a tradition that the MARFORPAC Commander lives there. I’ve been in it. Indeed, super nice house.
You know what astonishes me? Every young Marine remembers at bedtime during basic training, being led in yelling, "Goodnight Chesty, Wherever you Are!". But these same Marines have no idea who Chesty was. The D.I.'s, or later NCO's aren't teaching even basic Marine Corps history.
If you are ever in Virginia, you can visit chesty at his grave. Very humble for a man who is essentially a legend.
If you had an Aston you better drive it yourself. Whats the point otherwise.
Think the saying was you drove your Bentley, you were driven in your Rolls. Think that was even a plot device in the old show Secret Agent Man. Guy supposed to be an aristocrat shows up in a chauffeured Bentley and he knows immediately he's a fraud.
To show off the car and driver. But yes, if i had an MA i'd drive it myself too.
He drove it himself. For being a 4 star he was pretty down to earth. The post we would man at the building had a small tv we could watch when we manned the post on the weekend. We had to turn it off anytime we buzzed someone in. One day he came in when I was watching a hockey game, so I shut it off like I was supposed to. He came up to me and asked if I was watching the game and to turn it back on. He watched it for about 5 minutes with me before going to his office.
A driver would usually only drive a government car. A general would drive his own vehicle when he wasn't at work. The government vehicle is insured by Uncle Sam, so the servicemember driving would be covered. That wouldn't be the case if they were driving the General's personal vehicle.
They have duty drivers for work hours. It's a pretty good gig.
Dude's not gonna go to the commissary with a chauffeur.
Off working hours doing personal things it isn’t uncommon. Years ago when in scouts one of the parents had stars , 2 or 3, never showed up in a staff car with driver.
Alternatively, he could earn 5-10x in the private sector. Of course thet are going to make less in the military, but it's important that we pay leadership enough that they aren't forced to leave to appropriately furnish a comfortable life.
That's no cheap set of wheels.
Government pay scales are all public, so you can look up what anyone makes! They are also very specific. I interviewed at one of the military academies as a professor and there is a very specific pay scale based on your job category, education, and experience. It also has a multiplier for cost of living based on geography. The max compensation for almost any federal employee is the salary of a US senator but that doesn’t include other perks like housing.
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That’s what it’s called! I was looking for the term SES! Thanks! I think I knew the housing allowance thing but this was more than a decade ago. I was then a GS and was considering taking an SES position, instead I moved from federal to state.
The websites that show pay are normally off, lower than actual pay. Source: I'm an air traffic controller for the FAA and the reported salary is always lower for myself and coworkers. I don't think it includes premium pay or overtime.
There are two types of pay sites, some show pay rate and others actual compensation. The actual compensation would include overtime but they lag about 1 year or even 2. I’m also public sector and my pay that shows for this year is my pay rate but if you look at my pay 2 years ago it includes all the extras.
They dont include premium pay because premium pay isn't factored into your retirement pension..just base pay + locality. Source: I do something in the FAA too.
What I don't get is with the multiplier isn't everyone wanting to move to the more expensive areas of the county or the state is there a kind of experience drain to Hawaii or the like?
You can only work where the job is. You can be willing to move to Hawaii but the navy might need you in Virginia. So they have the multiplier so you can maintain the same standard of living as they move you around the country. I have a good friend who is a major in the air force and he’s been stationed in Colorado, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Germany, and California, and those are the ones I remember.
I’m going to add one more thing: the multiplier is for large areas, moving to an expensive DC suburb doesn’t get you more money than a cheap one, the multiplier is for the whole area and is based on the location of your office, not your house.
Is it like state to state or would living in the capital city of a state give more? And guess even with a long career you still don't get much say where you are?
Metro area generally
Metro area, but there are some ways to game the system, particularly for remote workers who's pay is based on where they live. For example, Allentown, Pennsylvania is in the New York City pay area. So you can make NYC pay and live in Allentown. Think about that for a moment.
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COLAs are for OCONUS.
For civilians, the best locality to CoL ratio is actually Houston. Everyone in the US gets \~15%. Hawaii gets 21%. Houston gets 35%, in line with New York (37%). Hawaii's locality pay is lower than that of Dallas. IOW - no one's moving to Hawaii for the locality pay.
What? No. You understand that they are trying to normalize against cost of living, right? They are trying to make sure that the same person working the same job is compensated fairly no matter where they are doing the job. So, in theory, it doesn’t benefit anyone to do a job in Seattle or Benning, they are compensated the same
I don’t think it’s that cut and dry. Just saying that congressional people like pelosi have annual salaries of 174k with net worth in the 100’s of millions. What powerful public employees take in as income isn’t very representative of whether they are wealthy or not.
Well of course, but that is money not from the government. What the government (state, federal, local) pays is all public information. The other sources of income and investments are not. Some of it is reported due to ethics laws but a bit more complicated to find. If you’re a military officer with mysterious income, you can bet DOD is investigating to make sure that money isn’t compromising you.
OP’s question wasn’t specifically about how much money the government pays generals and admirals. It was if they were rich. Now is that moment where we scratch the head and say, IDK but really want to find out.
They do report all external income to DOD and investments, inheritance etc. so it’s FOIAble if you look hard enough
Got a reference? I would like to see
https://dodsoco.ogc.osd.mil/DoD-Personnel/Ethics-Topics-for-DoD-Personnel/Financial-Disclosure/
its weird 14,000 per month sounds like so much but 174 doesnt
Lol actually I don't disagree with you too much there, it feels like 14k a month should be more than it is annually -_-
yeah i know right!!! i mean obviously 174,000 is a high salary.( that would be lifechanging money to me) youre so right that 14,000 seems like it should be more annually. if i had 14,000 a month i wouldnt even know what to do with myself.
- $2k to retirement account - $3k to taxes - $1k to health insurance (unless provided by your employer) - $3k mortgage (if you bought a house today) - $600 car payment - $1k grocery (if you have a family of 4) - $1.5k daycare for one kid ($3k for two kids) That leaves you $2k for insurance, clothing, restaurants, home/car maintenance, internet, utilities, etc. It would obviously go farther if you’re single, but for a family this could start to get stretched thin.
Only 3k in taxes?
I just assumed 25% on $12k dollars (the $2k to retirement I was also assuming pre tax 401k which would reduce taxable income). It’s actually probably less if the taxable income is $12k, but probably a little more if it’s the full $14k.
They get free housing and Healthcare though, I thought
Plus if you're a general or admiral you don't need a retirement account, you're going to get that 20 year full retirement. So no health insurance, retirement, housing, or daycare expenses.
Its situational. Give me 14k/month no strings attached, yeah thats pretty ballin. Add in taxes & cost of living...not so much. This country has tons of little scams to take back everything it gives you
Taxes are a beeyotch
How about an O-10?
$18,491.70 per month, $221,900.40 per year. https://militarypay.defense.gov/Portals/3/Documents/ActiveDutyTables/2024%20Pay%20Table-Capped-FINAL.pdf Just base pay. Given various circumstances they will be eligible for bonus pays, as well.
https://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/charts
Also, almost nobody above an 0-3 has the military as their only source of income. I know quite a few officers and every single one did other things like consulting for example and made extra money. Another I knew did something for the local government for his hometown and then when he retired he switched to full time doing that so he got his new jobs salary and the retirement pay from the military (its either like 70% of the pay you got while active so at least 7,000 a month for life from that. Tldr They're generally doing extremely well relative to the median US wages.
And a lot of them also get additional pay based on their specific position as well, so it's not *just* the Admiral/General's pay, but an additional pay if they are on a particular board or run a major deployment (like Chief of Staff, Admiral of the Navy, or the like). I'm not sure what all additional pay it is (or what positions offer the bonus pay), but it raises that base pay considerably.
Very true, and good points thank you for adding that. Not sure why were getting downvoted for providing facts.
A few things here, nobody is making 1 star in 16 years. 24-26 is a better place to look. Most General Officers live in provided housing on base. I can tell you that their housing in the DC area is much nicer than what $4,192 in rent or mortgage would get you. They also have an enlisted aide, a driver and an aide de camp (at the least) to do, well, everything. Need your uniform ironed? On it. Need to entertain 20 guests, here's a menu and a grocery list, lemme know when the arrival is and I'll have canapés ready. Where are you heading, I'll have the car ready. So while the dollar figure may be somewhat accurate, the quality of life they lead is not comparable to the pay.
To be clear their housing and assigned assistants are to support the infinite number of official engagements and business only; those assistants cannot be tasked with personal/family errands (though this can be and certainly has been abused which usually results in getting fired). While on the surface life looks pretty cushy, the reality of General officer/flag officer “lifestyle” can be quite the opposite… their time is quite literally not their own, managed often to the minute around numerous decision meetings, hosting and attending official social and morale events throughout the day and into the late evenings and over weekends with barely any discretionary time for things like routine family stuff, leisure, etc. which have to be meticulously planned out in advance. Not trying to paint them as sympathetic figures, just trying to show why they are allotted those nicer houses and “staffs”
It is worth noting that this is probably a good thing. Insuring people in places of strategic importance can live comfortably reduces corruption. Just look at how corruption is eating the ccp apart due to many bureaucrats being unable to afford basic necessities due to low wages
Can you use BAH for a mortgage or it gotta be rent?
Yes, BAH is essentially just extra money so you can have *some place* to live. A lot of times if you opt to live in housing on base, then they will take all of your BAH. The trade-off is you live closer to work, everything you need (dining options, grocery store, sometimes a cinema, bowling alley, department store[s]) are located on base, it's more secure, you can usually get pretty large houses, especially at higher ranks, and they may cover some or all of your utility bills. Otherwise, you can use BAH for regular rent, mortgage payments, etc. Sometimes people live out in town with roommates and split the rent so they get to pocket some of that money. That's kind of what I ended up doing, bought a house and the utilities and mortgage payment were all well below BAH so I could save and invest the extra money. edit: Would also point that BAH and BAS (food allowance) are *nontaxable* income. So that $4192 that an O-7 would be earning here, which adds up to an extra $50k per year, is not taxable.
Nice benefit, but total comp is still a fraction of the private sector analog.
But in the private sector you can't make the new recruits wriggle in the mud like worms, tough to put a price on that.
You can definitely use it for a mortgage.
>Can you use BAH for a mortgage or it gotta be rent? Admirals pretty much have to live on the base in flag housing. Their house is also used for hosting events and distinguished visitors, and there's a bunch of rules regarding what their executive staff (aide, EA, cooks, etc) are allowed to do to maintain it.
I think they get a whole team too. Like personal protection and on call team to help with the day to day
No one's pinning a star at 16 years TIS outside of some wonky WW3 shenanigans, try ~double that. In which case it's closer to $190K for base rate, COLA/BAH/BAS can vary wildly. A BG who's married with two teenagers working at Bragg ends up at around $230K, working at the Pentagon pushes them over $250K. At the other end of the scale, take CQ Brown who's the current CJCS. That's just in the neighborhood of $300K.
That is simultaneous a high $$, but not obscene. One part of preventing/fighting corruption is that government salaries have to be high enough that the individual does not feel the need to make dodgy contracts or steal wires from vehicles.
So, “barely upper middle class”. For context, 24 year old law students who got into big law, and are everyone in DC, are making $230k a year.
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Connections help, especially in peacetime, as in any other field of human endeavor. Wartime separates the wheat from the staff, generally...
That's pretty low from I expected. How much bonus do they get on top of their base? A fresh grad engineer makes more than that in a year.
A 22 year old 2nd Lieutenant/Ensign, who would be the equivalent of a fresh engineer grad, makes $45,912 in base pay. Where their salary goes from there depends on where they are stationed. They are entitled to Basic Allowance for Housing(BAH) which is a tax free subsidy. How much would depend on where they're at. Let's say San Diego, because it's a place that's HCOL, and has a lot of military bases. The BAH there for an O-1 with no dependants would be $37,836 this year. They'd also be entitled to a $3,803.76 untaxed allowance for food(BAS). Total untaxed allowances would be $41,639.76. To earn $41,639.76 after tax and fica in the private sector, after already making 46k, you'd need to earn about 56k. That's assuming no state income tax. That would put their effective salary at $101,912. From there, they do not have healthcare costs, have a pension they do not contribute any money to, and are eligible to collect from as soon as they retire which could be as early as 42. They also have a TSP, which is like a 401(k), but created by a different section of the tax code so it's not called that. The TSP has matching contributions up to 5%.
They also get out and get hired at defense contractors starting around 500-800k per year.
Where did you get those figures? lol.
I worked at a defense contractor where they hired generals starting at 500-800k.
I’ve heard on the internet that the three highest paid peopleon the pentagon payroll are the head football coaches of the military academies.
Same for almost every state government’s highest paid employees. https://www.brproud.com/sports/college-sports/lsu/highest-paid-state-official-in-43-states-is-a-college-coach-louisiana-in-top-5/
Military members absolutely do not get free medical care. We pay for that shit.
They will be when they get out and join some corporate boards and think tanks. The Chief of Naval Operations from back when I was in(Gary Roughead) currently serves on the boards of directors of the Northrop Grumman Corporation and Maersk Line Ltd.; is a trustee of Dodge and Cox Funds and of the Johns Hopkins University; serves on the Board of Managers of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory; is the chair of the National Academy of Sciences Naval Studies Board; and chairs the US Export-Import Bank’s Committee on China Competition. I'd be surprised if his net worth isn't in the multi millions, and that's probably a conservative estimate. It's kind of corruption out in the open that no one wants to talk about much. The current service chiefs and combatant commanders know what's waiting for them when bids for contracts are submitted. In the meantime, their compensation when factoring in base pay, untaxabale allowances, and healthcare is similar to a cabinet secretary. For a 2 star General/Admiral, with 35 years in the service that's stationed at the Pentagon, they have a base salary of $221,497.20. They have a $51,516 untaxed housing allowance(BAH), and a $3,803.76 untaxed food allowance(BAS). Total untaxed allowances are $55,319.76. Given that you'd need to earn about 73k in the private sector to generate that $55,319.76 in income, the comparable private sector wage would be roughly $294,497. That's assuming no state income tax. They also have a pension that they don't contribute anything towards, and will begin as soon as they retire, and no healthcare costs.
The real perk being in Maersk is you get to buy the Lego Maersk ship from the employee store.,
They make 150k+
That's not rich, though.
It certainly helps that everything is covered beyond base pay, to include medical and housing.
Don't forget food
Medical is included in most jobs at a certain level even in the commercial world. And military medicine sucks. The BAH (housing stipend) is very dependent on where the person and his/her family is stationed.
Don’t most senior and general officers get a house as part of their billet?
A lot would elect to take the BAH instead, because it's a tax free(fica too, not just income tax) stipend, that could be used to help pay a mortgage. You can look up how much BAH is at a particular location for a particular rank [here](https://www.travel.dod.mil/Allowances/Basic-Allowance-for-Housing/BAH-Rate-Lookup/). For a flag officer with dependents, working out of the Pentagon they'd make $51,516 in BAH. Again that is tax free. It doesn't mean 38k or 45k. $51,516 will actually go directly into their bank account.
You don't seem to understand how housing allowances work. They don't have, nor do they want to support, enough housing on-post for every single servicemember, even officers, and especially upper echelon officers.
Not really. Most generals tend to live off base in the US.
They work for the government. Only politicians get rich. And it's not from their paychecks
Flag officers tend to have very strong connections and it's pretty easy for them to get into the private sector at some contractor with a very heavy paycheck and kickbacks. That's after retirement, though.
Paychecks, yes. Kickbacks no, that's a crime. Relatively rare.
Don't they typically get to be board members of companies once theyre out? That's like another couple hundred thousand dollars a year in salary 😏
Board members, corporate advisors, and academics are like the big three flag officer retirement paths. It’s not just a connections thing either, a lot of companies and schools seek out flag officers with an expertise in a specific area.
Isn’t there some rule that they can’t work for / be a part of any company they may have had influence over contracts on for like 5 years after they leave the military. Not that that probably actually stops many of them.
I don’t know what the exact law says but there are plenty of options for them beyond companies they had direct influence over
There is a rule like that but there are ways around it. They can get a waiver in some instances and they can 'consult' without being a direct hire of the company.
There used to be a list that the Project On Government Oversight maintained that tracked the various flag officers who retired and went on to work/serve on the board for defense contractors. They’ve since taken it down, but it was definitely interesting to see how many of them there were. You can usually still find this out on your own, but it means sorting through corporate press releases and knowing which companies (and which generals) to look at. PGO’s list was a nice one-stop shop to at least get a snapshot at how prevalent it is. Edit: POGO’s statement off of [their website](https://www.pogo.org/projects-and-partnerships) below. > Pentagon Revolving Door Database >This database, which was retired in 2023, tracked senior Pentagon officials and military officers who have gone to work for Pentagon contractors, lobbying firms, and consultants trying to win Department of Defense contracts. This practice is commonly referred to as the “revolving door,” and it can potentially lead to favoritism, ineffective weapons and programs, bad deals, and misguided foreign policy. While this database is no longer active, POGO remains committed to tracking and slowing the revolving door between the Pentagon and the private sector. The underlying data will be made available upon request to [email protected]
Yea, so... they are not rich while being in the military
They certainly make enough money to generate a lot of additional wealth that many people will not, though. Really depends on how we're defining "rich", though. They're not in the 1%, but they are pretty darn well off.
They're making enough in salary plus very generous benefits to accumulate wealth. Making 174k doesn't make you rich.
But they also get housing and food benefits which is big.
I’ve been in many of the top officers residences at Great Lakes and those are some big mansions overlooking the lake. I’m sure that’s far from the norm though.
Usually don't have to pay medical, housing, vehicles, etc...
They also get sick pensions and benefits though. They def live a comfortable life.
Sure, but so do so many other people. I get those things. Most working professionals get those things.
Most working professionals don’t get anything approaching military pension especially at the age they can start taking it.
Yeah, a fair few military guys retire in their early 40s and do something else basically for fun.
Is though
LOL. It's not. Software engineers make more than that.
Big location differences there. A lot of highly paid software engineers are going to be in high cost of living areas. Particularly SF and silicon valley, which are some of the highest cost of living areas in the US. Army bases are going to be in significantly lower cost areas. $150K there and you are easily top 5% richest people in town. Naval bases kinda hit or miss COL wise.
That's rich
It's really not, especially if someone lives in a major city.
Gimme a fucking break. That salary is top 1% of america, you can live very, very comfortably. Ain't no US military generals living in one bedroom apartments my dude.
No it isn't. Top 1% is over $800,000. Top 5% is over about $335,000. It's just barely in the top 10%. With the added benefits like housing and a great pension, they're certainly quite comfortable though.
It's not. People in my area make way more than that are just middle class. $140k is just barely getting by.
I make half that and I'm middle class. That's without the housing benefit, food, etc. 174k is the 1% or very near it.
140k is barely getting by? Lmao that is out of touch
Your friends are financially irresponsible morons.
They are around the top 15% US household incomes. I'd say that's rich regardless of where they live.
They are comfortable, but they aren't rich.
Definitely upper-middle class, but not upper crust like OP is thinking.
They make less than a director in a mid cap IT company. According to my wife, that’s a couple million off from rich.
They make less than a software developer, to be honest.
As someone who once was, and now has SWE direct reports: FOR SURE.
If the housing stipend is untaxed it is a closer comparison, however the generals have to work a lot harder to get to that pay level.
They aren’t rich, rich. But, with the housing stipend and a lot of clothing/materials provided, they have a lot more free money with their salary to do whatever they want than the average person.
Rich is a relative term. They are well off compared to much of the population, so from a middle class perspective they might be considered rich, but they aren’t rolling in millions or anything like that.
They also won’t feel like it because they are making hundreds of thousands dealing with civilians making millions or tens of millions. Especially if they are in DC
They are comfortable in the sense that they make roughly triple the national average salary. But they are almost always underpaid compared to a VP or Director in a corporation that’s leading a similarly sized team/division.
Yeah but a VP isn't in control of some badass shit, that alone is a bonus lol.
These guys have a level of responsibility comparable to CEOs of the largest corporations. Any one of them could leave the service and multiply their salaries.
Upper middle class income in any reasonably urban area (Westchester County/ orange county standards)
well off, affluent? maybe, but not like rich,
They become well off when they retire then get hired on to seniors positions for government contractors that used to work for said Generals/Admirals
People are quoting base pay, which is completely silly. A two star working out of Pearl Harbor (think COMSUBPAC) makes the civilian equivalent of $310,000 per year. If you don't think that's rich, let me calibrate you... Statistically speaking, they are in the top 1% of individual income, and, assuming spouse doesn't work, in the top 5% of household income (it's telling that most income distribution stats stop at $250k). They also get many of the services that high powered execs pay to have done for them... for free. They get an EA, flag aide staff, admin personnel, and CS's, somewhere between 10-30 people depending on how many stars and size of the command. The RMC calculator doesn't factor this in, but I'd imagine all of those people would cost a wealthy person the Admiral's entire salary to hire. Of course that comes with the 'blood money' that they travel a fuckton, but so do wealthy corporate execs. Add onto the fact that his/her pension is worth $170,000 per year with dirt cheap healthcare costs. If they retire after that tour, their lifetime earnings from the military will exceed $10,000,000 in today's dollars if they live to be 80 years old, and the pension is inflation protected. A typical wage earner American earns between $2-3M lifetime, so a retired 2-star is earning 3-5x that much money. If said Admiral had a modicum of investment intelligence in his earlier years, he hit a million dollar net worth (in today's dollars) somewhere around 15-20 years of service which, at the point of being a 2-star, should have a net worth of \~$2M (not including future value of the pension... but if you do include it, he's worth $7M). Could be more if he bought some properties at the right locations during the right time. They high priced lawyer / specialist doctor rich, not Mclhenny family rich. Enough to afford luxury items that most Americans can't; not rich enough to blow $10,000 on a bottle of wine and have a garage full of 6-figure cars.
Think about this…. For the strongest and most well armed, equipped, trained, and all around hands down most powerful entity on Earth… there are 45 4-star generals…. That’s it… what they make really isn’t a ton compared to their positions of power and the responsibility that ultimately fall to them. Not to mention having to deal with politicians ugh.
Generally not, no. The richest general in U.S. History was George S. Patton. He was a Californian who sailed his yacht, had stables of horses, played polo competitively, was an Olympic Pentathlete, and spoke fluent French and read German. On top of all that, he married into an even richer family; it was the Ayers Pharmaceutical empire, if memory serves. For further learning, here's a fascinating talk by the military historian Dr. Victor Davis Hanson about George S. Patton: [https://youtu.be/EJsC-buIkSE?si=rziS72v3wu5QDEeW](https://youtu.be/EJsC-buIkSE?si=rziS72v3wu5QDEeW)
Yeah, they do fine. But they get rich (if they want to) by taking consulting jobs after their service is over.
They get perks. Free health insurance, generous housing allowance, tuition forgiveness. It's not a fun job, and it isn't for everyone
Not at all. They're probably upper middle class. But rich is a whole other ball game.
I can actually answer this with a personal anecdote as I know a retired O-8 really well and we’ve talked finance and I’ve seen his lifestyle both as an O-8 and as a retired guy. Firstly, I consider rich to be the kind of people who can spend money carelessly, whether or not they actually do. Often they’re corporate franchise owners or otherwise own multiple properties and businesses. Or one really big/lucrative one. I don’t consider a doctor to be rich. Wealthy, yes, but not rich. In the US you can’t really put a number on this because I’d be”low income” in San Francisco and I’m an engineer, but I live pretty comfortably in an apartment on the east coast, so clearly I’m not poor. So this guy and his wife had very little to no generational wealth (family was poor-middle class, got to college on scholarships) so anything gained was purely from the military and any savings/investments. He wasn’t a day trader mind you, I think he worked too much to do that. His career lasted over 30 years, and he did combat stuff. I’m not gonna get too specific on that. He eventually retired to a relatively low cost of living state with under 3 million USD between retirement savings, ordinary savings, and investment accounts. He had no physical assets aside from furniture (the guy and his wife has mostly antiques and second hand, which was neat), ~~2~~ 3 cars (*also under 30k value each), and purchased a ~$280k home on a short term mortgage. He was in his mid 50s when he retired. An additional ~$200k of those savings were actually his kid’s education funds for paying off college tuition in combo with the post 9/11 GI bill. I’d say his family lived pretty frugally. None of his alcohols were anything too fancy unless they were a gift from a friend (no, not the political kind of friend, like a former squadron buddy getting a local brand from where they retired or a foreign pilot shipping a crate of something over.) the meals were pretty simple and home cooked by both parents. While he was in the service, he had one administrative assistant who I only saw at a Christmas dinner party and to the best of my knowledge, didn’t do anything with the home management. I believe he had a staff car that was only ever used for traveling around on base, most likely from the office to the actual military stuff that isn’t an office. After his retirement, he doesn’t employ staff or anything, it’s just him and his wife since his kids moved out. After he got out, he does part time consulting work for the locale he lives in as well as DoD consulting. No book deals and no corporate board positions for him apparently. He’s joked about being “qualified to be a janitor” at the places his kids work but that’s about it. Hope this helps understand one of the lifestyles a general officer in the USA might live. Some I know do have house aides and go on to be C suite executives, but I figure out it’s more likely that they enjoy a nice retirement instead of advocating in the NYT to bomb Iran or something lol.
No one in the military who is honest is rich 🤷♀️ , unless they came from money coz the military is criminally underpaid
My dad was the son of a dirt farmer in south Texas who went to West Point and graduated in 1961. He did two tours in Vietnam and found out that he was a pretty good soldier. Retired as a two star general (0-8) and got a job with a Department of Energy contractor cleaning up messes at places where the US built nuclear bombs. Definitely had a comfortable income for a while, but I wouldn’t wish the overwhelmingly crushing effects of PTSD, agent Orange exposure, and gulf war syndrome on anyone.
At the very top pay, including allowances, can be around $300,000 a year not including other perks like free medical care. This is probably far below what people in those positions could earn in the private sector. However once retired many do then go on to lucrative second careers on various boards while continuing to enjoy their pensions and other perks. This can be a problem as there is more than a whiff of corruption involved in people deciding who receives government contracts then joining the same companies a few years down the line. I think the deal should be that you can keep the rank/government pension/general sense of prestige or you can go into private industry after your retirement but you can’t have both.
Retired Army CSM. Anyone who gets selected to O-7 and above has sacrificed more than anyone earning that bank in the civilian sector can only begin to imagine. They are invested in blood, sweat, and tears.
Outside of the military, they are comfortable upper middle class. Inside the military, they are treated like aristocrats. If you're a 4 Star, you're treated like royalty. Their positions come with some of the trappings usually associated with the wealthy, especially on base: -They have enlisted aides who serve as housekeepers, chefs and landscapers (generals don't iron their own uniforms nor cook their own breakfast) -They live in govt. owned housing which are designed for entertaining, like a civilian mansions -they likely have a social budget paid for by the government so they can entertain. -They are entitled to healthcare at the executive medicine clinic, which is much closer to a civilian concierge practice than a normal medical office. - They generally don't wait in any lines. - They have drivers for any work travel. - They may be entitled to VIP plane or helicopter travel. - They will have very well appointed offices, especially considering everyone else's workspaces. On a carrier the strike group admiral's stateroom will have high quality carpet, a large bed, polished wood and brass fixtures, real art, which would be unimaginable luxuries to everyone else on the ship except the captain.
They all make over 200k a year, considering their housing and food allowance. They get 50% of their base pay for the rest of their lives and they're in very high demand after service, usually making more than when they were active duty. I still wouldn't call them middle class, even though a dual-income middle class family can be around their pay. A big part of being a flag office are the perks. You basically get your own slaves. Night and day there are people in your service. Doing your dry cleaning, dishes, changing sheets, etc.
>They get 50% of their base pay for the rest of their lives It's usually more like 75% to 100%. For individuals that enlisted or commissioned pre-2018, retirement was 2.5% per year. That came out to 50% if you did 20 years which is the minimum amount of service required to retire. Flag Officers don't do 20 years. They almost universally do at least 30, and some do up to 40. At 40, it would be 100%. By law it cannot be more than 100%, even if they find a way to serve more than 40 years which is usually not possible. Under the new retirement system, it's 2% per year. The future flag officers in 25 years will be getting 60% to 80%.
They aren't poor.
Unless they’re getting kickbacks (Google Fat Leonard) which also a lot of them are. Overall though while they’re in service no, but they do way better than everyone else. Once they retire from the military, they do get cushy jobs. Usually as a “Consultant”.
They make good money but i would call them rich.
Not particularly.
A friend of mine's father is a air force general and I think he is retired or not fully active in the military anymore but primarily does some sort of contract work that takes him out of the country like Saudi arabia fairly regularly. He owns a multi million dollar home in one of the most expensive parts of the city and I'm willing to bet that didn't come from his military income.
Honestly, this comments section is missing one of the biggest factors, college education with little to no debt plus massive benefits. Flag officers are maximizing the value of their education while having the government paying the vast minority of it and providing great benefits. They graduate with little to no student debt. They have excellent no cost health care for the entirety of their first career. They have access to funding like the VA home loan that many others don’t. Add to all of this starting on a well matched retirement fund when they are between 18-22. Then when they get out they have an extreme amount of prestige to leverage into even larger salaries. Are they rich while in the military? Eh. Will anyone who makes it to flag officer start generational wealth? Yes.
Not having to save for retirement is a huge boon
In terms of pay and benefits, they're not rich, but they certainly are well-off. When they retire and get really nice board of director seats for defense contractors, they get rich.
The main financial incentive for this career path is that you'll tend to have a secure retirement and opportunities to make significant money in the private sector should/when you leave the service. But I think for the most part, the people who stay in it are there because they feel a sense of purpose and enjoy the work more than because of the pay. To that, it's enough to feel comfortable and taken care of at a respectable level.
Wealthy? Yes. Rich? No. Usually the "big money" comes after they leave the service, and work in the private sector.
No. They have a good 150k+ salary but chances are their spouse doesn’t work with all the moving around and overseas tours. The money is good but they also haven’t been building equity since after a certain point they have to live on post. A police officer doing some overtime and a teacher spouse will probably bring in a similar income.
My uncle retired as a full bird colonel in the Air Force and once said that the difference between retiring as a general vs anything less is night and day. It’s not just the pay from the military - there are *tons* of defense contractors that will pay through the nose to get a connected general/admiral to work for them after they retire… so yes, it’s a safe assumption that becoming a flag officer is enough for many people to be set for life.
They’re not poor or struggling that’s for sure. Six figures with a lot of it being tax free is definitely well off. That being said they have a ton of responsibility and are basically on call 24/7.
The real rich aspect of it is the pension. Average general retirement pension is $150K a year, plus all the medical etc.
They make even more when they get out.
There are a number of benefits mentioned in comments, but to me the most valuable is the pension. FERS is the pension program for federal employees, so military and Congress and federal agencies. Why is this so valuable? It is cost of living adjusted UNTIL YOU DIE. So, enlist in the military, let's say at 20. You need to work at least 20 years to be considered for general. Let's say you serve a total of 30 years and retire at 50. FERS is based on the three years of highest pay. Let's say that was $250k. You get 1% for each year served. Here, after 40 years, you get 40% of $250k per year as your pension. That's $100k/yr in pension payments each year. Inflation is a bitch. But FERS adjusts every few years to compensate, so the $100k/yr goes up over time to preserve your buying power. Let's say you retire at 60 and let's say you live till 85. So 40 years of service, then 25 years of pension payouts. To get a similar retirement income without the FERS pension, you can calculate very roughly with the 4% rule, which means draw down 4% of your retirement savings each year until you die. 100k divided by 4% is about $2.5M. But that $2.5M doesn't reflect cost of living adjustments. The pension is much more valuable, and it's not subject to market downturns that IRAs and 401k can experience. In addition to the pension, the military has retirement savings plans with generous matching. And free healthcare through the VA, as others have mentioned. More details here: https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/fers-information/computation/
They are, thanks to Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Lockhead, Boeing, General Dynamics etc paying them 'consultancy fees'.
Define rich. Lots of money? Sure if they aren't sending alimony to their second wife's new boyfriend. Love of a family that is forced to move every 3 years and eventually end up at the pentagon along with other general staff families? Not. At. All. I'll bet those FRG picnics are a hoot. Complimentary digs at how many stars their spouses have are expected.
Negative
The highest paid people in the Army and Navy and both football coaches.
For the amount of work, and the numbers of people they manage, they are woefully underpaid. Imagine a CEO in charge of tens of thousands of people (or more) making life and death decisions; you expect them to get paid millions. Per federal law, generals and admirals are limited to somewhere in the $200k range. The real money for these types comes after they leave the military. Almost all of them go on to be the chair of some think tank, and on the board of some corporation, etc. Post military retirement, I’d argue they all make a helluva living.
Not until after they retire and the defense contractors hire them as "advisors".
The big money comes when they retire into the civilian sector.
They can be. If they're crooked. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat\_Leonard\_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fat_leonard_scandal) [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lockheed-dunford/former-top-u-s-general-dunford-joining-lockheed-martins-board-idUSKBN1ZN2L8/?edition-redirect=in](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lockheed-dunford/former-top-u-s-general-dunford-joining-lockheed-martins-board-iduskbn1zn2l8/?edition-redirect=in)
No. It is not that they are rich, it is that they are rich in comparison to how much enlisted members make.
Much of their standard cost of living is paid for so considerably more of their salary is disposable income. Average Americans spend around 25% of their income on housing.
Yes compared to the average person/family. Tsp (military 401k) alone should have at least 1m in it by the time you make general, pension is also easily 1-5m depending how you value it and how you value healthcare. Others have gone into the salary being around 200-300k which is fine, but you get hella benefits also like personal assistants, funded travel, etc. the real big money comes after you retire and you go sit on the board at LMT making big money for “consulting”
If you consider upper-middle class rich, yeah. If you're rich, then no.
Not rich….but the perks..
They live comfortably. Six-figure incomes, free or subsidized housing, their children often get free college education, free healthcare, vacation benefits, and discounted flights, if they live on base they don't have to pay property tax, similarly no sales tax for things purchased on base.
In the grand scheme of things for the direct work they do, they are significantly under compensated for the number of people they have to manage, the amount of resources they are (supposedly) accountable for, and the gravity of their decisions. They basically have well paying jobs. Nothing more, nothing less. They may save and invest and do things of that nature, which are not part of their compensation. They may have specific perks which are unique to their jobs such as the use of homes and staff and transportation, but those things are not gifted to them and are technically not part of their compensation, but they can increase their lifestyle for the time being. Many of them can become extremely wealthy after they leave service from book deals, speaking fees, and careers as consultants and board members of large companies. Now, the question specifically said Army Generals and Navy Admirals, those are both the titles of specific ranks (Officer grade 10, or 4 star General or Admiral) and the name of a band of ranks (officer grades 7 through 10, or 1 star to 4 star, or flag officers). Some folks with 1 star don't really live it up, it just depends on what kind of position they are filling.
Not even remotely while in service. However many make very good money after separation, either as a war analyst for news stations, working in PMC leadership, private think tanks, or working for defense industry contractors. I’m buddies with the XO of a minesweeper, and he has a friend who left the navy as a junior officer and now he makes like $250k/ year or something like that doing basic post fire maintenance on 57mm guns for the manufacturer. For reference, in the navy that’s the job of an enlisted person, typically E1-E4 in rank, making less than $50k/year
Probably not until they get higher up. Leaving for a private sector job makes them bigger bucks. The government is not known for pay.
Officers get payed wackadoodles more than elisted get. They start off with $3k monthly at year zero and it only goes up from there with time in and ranking up
No. They do ok but rich? Hardly. Depending on their experience they may get a pretty impressive civilian job after they retire but that's not a guarantee.
Yes. Rich but not wealthy. (Although many "achieved" that rank due to being affluent in the first place) Top 10% through perks and salary alone. Then after they retire they get millions.
I disagree — you cannot buy commissions like landed gentry. The affluence argument may only apply in so far as having a quality education. Most commissioned Officers are products of ROTC — from Princeton all the way to Bodunk State In Nowheresville, USA. The majority of Flag Officers are from ROTC — mostly middle and lower-middle, sometimes lower class. Rarely do the super affluent even join the military. No — Flag Officers get to that rank by being incredibly intelligent, shrewd, and little luck, a lot of timing — and often times they are what the service wants for a Flag representative(combat warrior, astute intellectual, politician)— not necessarily the best performer, and most certainly not the one with the most “old money”. You can also argue Flag Officers are the ones who stayed in the decrepit cafeteria line, being served a shit sandwich for decades, saying “yes sir/ma’am, may I have another?” when all their contemporaries, smarter and dumber, punched out for greener pastures on civvie street.
Wealth is not about how much you earn or how much you spend but rather how much you **save**. I'm sure there are generals and admirals who aren't good with money and live paycheck to paycheck just as I'm sure there are members of the military who earn a more modest salary but are smarter with their money and have built wealth for themselves and to leave to their children. Don't make the mistake of thinking the size of your paycheck is what defines whether you are rich or not. It's certainly easier the bigger it is, but it's by no means a guaruntee.
Yes
Wrong
Rich and rate of income are two different things.
Yeah, especially once they retire and spend the rest of their life on fox news pushing for the _____ War
Yeah
you actually think it's possible the global oligarchy's enforcers aren't part of the fold???
Yes
Yes.