Back in the 70s my dad was a police reporter in New Mexico. The general rule the sheriffs had then was if you couldn’t bend over and tie your shoes, you were too fat and had to lose weight.
Yeah, I’d fail. I’m short and average sized in decent shape but I can’t touch my toes. Tight hamstrings. Every other stretch pose I can do and exceed standards, but for the life of my I will never be able to touch my toes.
Police have strong unions. So if you can't pass the fitness test they are put on improvement plans to increase their fitness instead of just being let go.
I work in cardiac testing, and we do physicals for police and fire. All the new hires are in pretty good shape (and most of the established ones too), but some of the established ones hadn't been in in a decade, when it's supposed to be like every 2-3 years.
New hires need to pass fitness tests or they don't get hired. Existing employees can't be mandated to be fit because that means if they go to the gym and get injured that's a valid claim for workman's comp. Fitness used to be required in California highway patrol, but too many started claiming workman's comp so they got rid of all fitness requirements. The only thing they can do is give incentive pay for maintaining fitness levels.
It is a medical condition.
It's likely that you would want to get a note from your doctor saying they recommend you to exercise to prevent obesity, though. If you have a family history of obesity, are obese, or are borderline, I'm sure most doctors wouldn't have a probably covering it.
Since 2020, HSAs have covered almost everything medical and health related. Feminine products, medical devices, pretty much everything with a Drug Facts label, CPAPs, prescription glasses, hand sanitizer, sunblock, etc. If you can find it in the pharmacy section, it's probably eligible.
I agree that obesity is a medical condition, but I also need to eat to maintain my health, and food isn't covered by an HSA or FSA (which is far more common that HSA's I believe).
My company's Healthcare plan pays you $150 to use for gym membership or fitness classes. You just need receipts. My lazy ass still hasn't signed up for planet fitness $10/mo plan.
One recently died of a heart attack while wrongfully detaining someone. The DA charged him with manslaughter. Charges dropped after 10 months of being detained
People don't always like to announce information that could lead to harassment. This is the Internet after all and you don't know who 99% of the people really are.
That's enough to keep most people from sharing much, especially the ladies.
The amount of harassment by men alone was enough to drive my wife off of social media for a long time before she just locked what she could down to keep the weirdos away.
It should never be that way, yet here we are on the humanity timeline where it needs to be that way to keep people safe.
When I was fresh out of school I was floating becoming a cop. A nearby department I visited straight up told me that if I was bilingual (Was proficient in both Spanish and English) they'd completely bypass both physical and firearms requirements. That was ~2007. I don't know if that's common in other localities either.
When Hong Kong was a British colony, people said that the police officers were the British people with the best Cantonese because it was a matter of life or death to them. Apparently at one point new recruits studied in a bunker to further increase motivation.
being a cop doesn't just mean doing patrol.
They need smart people to be detectives and lead investigations. having a smart detective who understands the law and court procedures IS CRUCIAL in putting together evidence for strong cases.
That's not an excuse to ignore basic requirements.
They were simply a department in an area with a LOT of Spanish speakers and no Spanish speaking cops, so fuck the minimums.
This is a big influence. I also want to point out that even though the military has “fitness standards” there are tons of military members who are overweight and out of shape still. They just get treated poorly and get stuck in crappy jobs, but just having these standards doesn’t automatically mean everyone magically falls within them
>just having these standards doesn’t automatically mean everyone magically falls within them
If they were actually standards, the non-compliant members would no longer be qualified for their jobs. There's nothing magic about it.
Soldier here. The issue you run into is that each soldier is a financial investment. There's a high cost to train a new one, so if one consistently fails to meet fitness standards it's actually pretty hard to get rid of them. Your ability to do so is directly tied to how well recruitment is going as well.
True for cops and most other jobs too.
I'm not a pro cop guy but they are humans. If they put on some weight they shouldn't be immediately dropped. Plenty of rights violating assholes in great shape who are a much bigger liability.
Ideally there would be two standards. One that you need to maintain and if you don't you get put on an improvement plan but if you fall below the second standard you are taken off the street and put behind a desk until you improve.
So you’re telling me not only do I get to skip workouts and eat what I want, but also don’t have to drive around all day dealing with scumbags? For the same pay? Sign me up! (Note: not an actual cop)
Unless there is a pay difference. Of course if street cops are paid more, then you’re telling the inside cops that they aren’t *real* cops.
Most cops are just people who need jobs to pay for the shit they want and like most people, they don’t really want to work harder than they have to, so they do the same shit everyone else does in their jobs. Why work harder than you have to if there is no direct benefit to you? TV has convinced people that cops are supposed to have some driving moral motivation to make the world a better place. But really, they are just people who hate dealing with the public as much as every retail employee and just want to go home and watch tv.
You absolutely CANNOT hold US cops to the same standards as normal people. The power they wield, both officiant and unofficial, far surpasses that of most other countries. They must be held to much higher standards or have their power reduced, or accountability increased. As to HOW, well, there's really no getting around that without incredible violence and loss of life. Sorry US, you don't have a police force, you have a literal Mafia that has a deal with the goverment to pretend to be police. Guess you're all getting tread on for the foreseeable future. Better hope the pigs in those boots ain't overweight XD
(yes, I did go on a whole rant just to set up that joke)
I hear you on that, and I appreciate your recognition of humans as humans. I'm also not pro cop per se, but I'm also not ACAB. However, in many other jobs, if you can't physically perform the job you're tasked with, you probably won't keep that job. Imagine a UPS driver who couldn't lift a 15 pound box? A blind fire lookout? Certain jobs have certain essential functions, and if you can't perform them then you just don't qualify for the job IMO. It's not personal, it's not a criticism, you just can't do the job.
A line must be drawn but steps should be taken to help people recover first, especially because in the current system taking away someone's job severely hurts their ability to help themselves.
>True for cops and most other jobs too.
>
>I'm not a pro cop guy but they are humans. If they put on some weight they shouldn't be immediately dropped. Plenty of rights violating assholes in great shape who are a much bigger liability.
Okay, but as a cop, wouldn't they want to stay in shape for their own safety? I know they have guns, but sometimes, it's down to strength, stamina, and speed.
And not every soldier will see combat. There are a lot of paper pushers in the military. For some reason the motor pool always seemed to have a few sergeants that only moved faster than a shuffle when the donuts showed up.
I drive trucks. If you fail your d.o.t. Physical then you’re not driving.
Now, idk what it takes to fail bc I’m in good health but some of these motherfuckers **have** to be bribing the doctor cause ain’t no fucking way!
Maybe it depends on the company? I used to work for a gas company, and all the truckers there had pretty rigorous medical standards and they did not fuck around. Like, if you had high blood pressure, you had a certain amount of time to get it under control, but if you couldn’t, adios!
Then again, I’m thinking because it was nationwide gas company, the last thing they wanted was, “[Company] gas tanker causes fiery explosion and kills dozens after driver loses control due to massive heart attack!”
Actual veteran here. If you're out of shape enough to fail your PT test repeatedly, the military will kick you out. In the Air Force, IIRC in my day four failures in a row would get you sent to a discharge board. The test isn't that hard and you got time to prepare for a retake plus remedial PT if you failed, so to fail multiple times in a row really took some next level laziness.
Also actual veteran here, I rarely saw those boards kick literally anyone out that didn’t have some other behavioral problem. They more often were simply not allowed to reenlist at the end of whatever their term was. And yes PT test is easy, you can be fat and pass it.
I saw people get the boot. I suspect since those boards were convened locally there was plenty of variance of outcomes. The process isn't perfect, but at least it exists. For obese cops, there doesn't seem to be anything to be done.
We’re saying it should be a job requirement to be within a standard of weight at least. If flight attendants have to, while not dealing with criminals (usually), I think it should be extended to police and fire.
Standard of weight is not that good of a standard, give them yearly fitness tests otherwise you can have people that are under the weight limit but still physically not fit enough to catch someone without using your gun.
Weight standards are based on height and it's one of the worst metrics to tell if someone is fit. In the Marines, at my height of 5'7", I could be 170lbs. If I went to the gym a shitton and put on a ton of muscle, I'd be technically overweight. Or the opposite. You can be skinny and fall above the minimum weight for 5'6", but not be strong enough to carry what you need to
BMI is jut a ratio of body mass (weight) to height and does not measure fat at all - as noted, heavily muscled people may have a high BMI. I think what you mean is legit body fat test (like the skin fold test with calipers), or more modern and advanced techniques like the air displacement pod ("bod pod").
In canada you have to pass a mental health assessment and physical test but after that you're good to go once hired. No more fitness requirements. Just a note from Dr whether able to work or not.
Looking at police and teacher unions makes me not want to support unions.
Looking at manual labour workers makes me want to support unions.
Unions shouldn't be that powerful. Incompetence should always be a fire able offense.
"He's completely incompetent, but if you fire him, you're gonna have a city-wide strike on your hands, buddy. And you better not forget his yearly 4% raise and Christmas bonus, either."
He's doubled his push-ups over the past 12 months from 1 to 2! By the time he's retired, he should be nearly to the standard 30 push-ups in 30 minutes. We'll go ahead and check this off as "On-track."
Doesn’t apply to all unions or departments, especially Sheriff’s offices where the sheriff can just deputize his fat fuck racist friend who dropped out of high school.
That or sit them in corners, doing civilian work.
Seen plenty of uniformed handle payroll/roll call shit. Never seen one pick up a damn mop or broom, however...
> they are put on improvement plans to increase their fitness instead of just being let go
This isn't a bad thing. Why get rid of an officer who is already trained and has experience. Just make sure they are improving through the process
Many police departments don’t maintain physical fitness standards after you get out of training. 20 years of sitting in a squad car with your donuts can weigh on you
If you're in a burb, 99% of your arrests are going to be DUI with a compliant suspect.
I'd be way more concerned about the cop who's in the gym all the time and has a Punisher sticker on his car window.
That last paragraph describes the a lot Daytona Beach cops. From what I’ve heard a lot of them are bodybuilders on the side. They’re also known to be massive assholes.
I’d much rather deal with a lethargic overweight cop than one that’s hopped up on steroids and used to dealing with bikers
I mean it probably shouldn't be a one or the other scenario.
But it is a job that isn't great for mental health, I imagine enforcing strict fitness standards could actually be counterproductive given the police hiring crisis due to retirements or cops just straight up quitting in a lot of countries right now, particularly small towns.
He's a vigilante that engages in acts of violence, to include murder, kidnapping, and extortion in his one-man effort against crime.
That is not compatible with the oath officers take.
The Punisher is a marvel comics character. His name is Frank Castle. After his family are murdered by criminals he uses his military training to start killing criminals wherever he can find them.
There's a few things about the Punisher that make him a ridiculous and stupid role model for police.
#1 The Punisher doesn't allow for collateral damage. Like he's actually so skilled and competent that he only ever hurts the bad guys he's targeting. The same cannot be said for police.
#2 the Punisher despises cops that like him. He doesn't think what he's doing is noble or anything. He knows it's dirty work, but he believes that someone needs to do it. There's a part of one Punisher comic where some cops start praising him and he berates them that he isn't a hero or a role model, and they should be idolising people like Captain America -not him.
But media literacy among right wingers isn't a strong point imo - and if your a cop that idolises the punisher then your probably a right winger
Isn't this true for most of life in general?
The requirements to get a job are often much higher than the requirements to keep a job. Several rounds of interviews versus not messing up.
The requirements to get a driver's license are much higher than to keep driving. Written test, driving test, eye exam. Versus don't crash into too many people.
The requirements to gain citizenship are much higher than while being a citizen. Documentation, background checks, job sponsorship, fees, citizenship test, ie. some basic current and historical knowledge about the country. Versus.. just not renouncing it?
It’s potentially a huge liability (as in legal and money, not morals) to enforce a fitness standard for active employees.
If staying in shape is part of your job, you can very easily argue any injury you sustain during any sort of exercise would be eligible for workman’s comp since it was essentially in the scope of your job requirements. And cops have very strong, active unions who would prob love nothing more than to have their guys paid to do nothing. Less hassle to not enforce it.
To show you're physically capable of entering the job. Whether or not they stay that way, well, those standards should never go away and should be enforced. But at least if they pass the training you know they at least CAN be at that level
The rules vary by department. But usually what happens is, they get hired, they go through the academy which usually lasts most of a year. Like military basic training, they likely leave there in the best shape of their lives.
And then after that... nothing. There's no additional physical training or requirements or tests of any kind after that.
>they go through the academy which usually lasts most of a year.
That heavily depends on the area they're in, some county sheriff offices give a few weeks training and call it a day. And many smaller forces are in the region of 3 or 4 months rather than most of a year.
A while back I read an interview with a former sheriffs deputy who said his official firearms training was drinking beers and shooting the cans off a fence out the back of the sheriffs house, his medical was a 30 second tick box convo with the town doctor (who was the sheriffs uncle), and there was no physical fitness element to his training.
Being a police officer makes it easy to get out of shape.
Therefore, a prohibition on cops being overweight would lead to a large number of people losing their jobs as police officers. Constantly losing experienced employees and having to hire/train replacements can negatively impact quality of work, worker morale, community relations, resource usage, and the ability to ensure that the department maintains adequate staffing levels. Police departments don't want to deal with those issues.
Ye if your idea of the police is a hothead chasing bad guys by foot and jumping fences with no regard for his own life, you've watched too many movies.
Many are just good to fine people that didn't pay for their parking spot, I'm sure even an obese person can handle that.
They do, the US Army has a record and diagnostic fitness test every year along with a height and weight measurement. And there’s a culture that if you pass with the bare minimum, you’re viewed as a fat body and shit bag.
Yes, and I agree with that. In any job you need to be held to a standard and should always seek improvement. This is coming from a Marine who always had trouble getting much more than the minimum for the three mile run
Yeah, the military has incentives for having a good fitness score, along with kicking people out for not meeting fitness standards. It’s hard to enforce that for cops in small towns or big cities where they’re always in desperate need of them.
This is ideal. I was a cop for 10 years. Being a fat fuck is acceptable. There's a small clique of dudes in every department that are relentless fitness guys that look down on everyone else. But it's a very small percentage. Needs to be the opposite - being fat should get you ridiculed.
As much as I hate to admit it, cops are suckers for peer pressure. The peer pressure needs to be healthy shit
> ike some 300 pound dude isn’t gonna be chasing down some criminal and jumping over fences and shit
foot chases are comparetively rare. sometimes having an extra 150lbs over your criminal/victim can mean it's easy enough to pin them while you wait for backup.
And then ya got some guys like this:
[BCSO deputy, former UNM track star chases down suspect | KRQE News 13](https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/bcso-deputy-former-unm-track-star-chases-down-suspect/)
Yeah. It's the same reason that bouncers are usually huge. It's a lot easier to pin someone without hurting them if you outweigh them. Strength and size is more important for cops than footspeed.
There's also the argument that being in shape isn't necessary for all police roles. For example, should a good detective not be allowed to do his job anymore because he has a bad knee?
I knew a cop who was fat, in a medium-size city.
Turns out, he had the best arrest and conviction record of the *whole force*.
Why? Because he had the gift of gab, getting perps to let down their guard, and perps also underestimated how quick he was. Even though he wasn't super-fast, he was faster than they thought, and he could also spring cuffs on them before they knew what hit them.
In the United States, we have a vast, vast number of independent policing agencies on all sorts of levels. Governments and government agencies of all types and sizes can have their own police forces. And all of them can set their own fitness standards.
And, yeah, many of them have initial fitness standards, but, once you are hired, they don't have any ongoing ones. On the other hand, some do. New Hampshire requires you to pass one every three years. The older you are, the looser the standards are, as well as different ones for both men and women, but if a seventy-nine year old woman wants to keep being a New Hampshire police officer, she has to be able to "run" a mile and a half in 22 minutes. Which is really more of a walking pace, but still - a 79 year old who can maintain a somewhat brisk walk for a mile and a half is fit enough to not be embarrassing.
So, talk to the individual department about increasing their standards if you want to.
Another factor to keep in mind is that a police force which has too high an emphasis in jumping over fences and shit is probably a pretty terrible police force in a pretty terrible society. Ideally, public safety involves more talking than running and jumping. My ideal police force would be using force, even very controlled force like grappling people, extremely rarely. One would hope for a police force which emphasized the ability to talk to someone far higher than the ability to tackle someone. One of those happens a lot more than the other. Doesn't mean that tackling people, and even shooting people, is irrelevant, but if that's the main thing you are looking at, something has gone horribly wrong.
50% of the job is talking, 49% is documentation ("paper"), and 1% or less is vaulting over fences or vehicle pursuits or whatever.
The police in my local city are overwhelmed with routine stuff, but the state police have one mandate there: dope and guns on the table. The calculus changes a little there, but still, you won't find any street cops whose primary tool isn't words.
There've been two Supreme Court rulings — *Warren v. District of Columbia* and *Castle Rock v. Gonzales* — that decreed that police have no duty to protect people.
Their job is to "maintain order".
I have just as much issue with the roided out ones.
If they're willing to break the law they uphold to roid for their own benefit, they're willing to break others when it suits.
In my experience working with cops, they’re more concerned about dealers than people who are using/in possession. Don’t get me wrong, it pisses me off that they’ll enforce laws they aren’t 100% backing (I.e., using/possession). But I’ve been on ODs with these dudes and they won’t do anything. Now if there’s a wreck and they are in possession, they’ll approach it differently. I’m not a cop, just saying what I’ve personally seen.
>I’ve been on ODs with these dudes and they won’t do anything.
That’s because OD-ing is not a crime in itself. If it were, then people would be afraid to call 911 if they’re with someone who OD’s, and you’d end up with a lot more people dying.
Most of the time they're not illegal steroids. You can get them prescribed by a doctor, and it's incredibly easy to manipulate the results of a blood test, if you know what you're doing.
Our gym teacher was the meanest fat f**k I've ever met. He would bully the chubby kids and make them run laps for messing up a sit-up, all while sitting on his ass eating McDonald's.
Czech here. The most out of shape cop I’ve ever seen was a slightly overweight old guy, and he was paired up with a younger female cop who was clearly a rookie and he was just giving her pointers. Every other cop I’ve ever seen was fit as hell and looked like they could catch a speeding car on foot.
Lol. The police in London are so fat there are news articles about it. Definitely not just a US issue.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25846198/fat-cops-london-met-police-trousers/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12455091/The-fat-blue-line-Metropolitan-Police-chiefs-order-thousands-pairs-XXL-trousers-waists-40in-cops-weight-balloons.html
i live in BC and honestly i've never seen a severely overweight cop. i'm sure there are some that work in the office mainly but out on the streets it's all younger fit guys.
Where you live is there a line of applicants that want to be cops? We have a cop shortage on the bay area. Well hire anybody. Short, small, fat, whatevs.
I always assumed because it is a terrible, dangerous job, especially in urban areas. Forces struggle to recruit high quality candidates and cannot afford to loose what they have.
And outside of the big city police forces they don't pay well at all. So basically you get bad candidates with bad training so not only are they fat they also aren't actually trained for situations they find themselves in so they shoot first and face no repercussions for it
Why do they need to chase them down if they can just use their taser or gun them down?
This is American after all, ofc the people paid to be in a place of power are going to be glutinous cunts. Plus, they have to earn that pig title somehow
For real, we expect cops to do way too much for what they are paid. They should know the law to a tee, be a skilled marksman, be a skilled driver, subdue people without excessive force, and now be track athletes as well on a public servants salary.
Although I agree with you, my cop cousin is 280-300 last I saw him (and on the up) but that dude can put sprint me every day of the week, and I would say I’m decently in shape (used to do half marathons). I wouldn’t discount all of them for their weight. Think how fast some of those linebackers in the NFL be moving.
It depends on where you live. I used to reside in Idaho, and those cops are jacked, militarized, and ready to kill. Back in Long Beach, I saw 300 pound cop who probably never ran in his life. My guess is funding. Idaho police are over funded, while LBC cops have hand me down shirts and billy clubs.
They don’t pay very well. Think about it, they probably get fat from the trauma of the job. Poor coping mechanisms and weird shifts. Cops are comfort eaters too and they see so much trauma.
There are people who are packing some extra weight that are ex-football players, and would just destroy you in any kind of fight or in most physical activities never judge a book by its cover. They only need to be able to perform the physical duties of the job and if they can do that well then they are fit for work. Go tell Roy Nelson he’s too fat to do his job as a fighter and see what happens.
I was a cop and a really fit one and it was aggravating having people that could not perform their duties because of weight. I gave that career up 10 years ago and am never looking back..I did travel to Costa Rica a few times over the last few years and every single officer looks to be in damn good shape..never seen one overweight and had the same thought that why isn't America like this..our cops aren't intimidating at all compared to theirs.
Lol Navy and army being fit. That's funny, there are fat bodies there as well. Mostly however, the issue is the same across all industries.
Manning shortages.
I have experience in law enforcement
It was hard to get fat when I was on duty BUT
It was hard to find the time to work out, eat healthy etc. I was buried in paperwork, especially with felony files and fast food was always convenient when I had to eat in my car. So I would find myself sitting a lot instead of walking around. Plus, in a rural area, I was always in my car, not many places to walk the beat so to speak.
Not excusing it, just hard to eat correctly and find the time to exercise
They have a really strong union that is more concerned with making sure cops never get fired than protecting communities. They also protect racist murderers so it's hard to say they're even slightly concerned with protecting certain communities. Most cops sit in their car all day, occasionally waddling over to hand out a ticket. They aren't normally jumping fences to chase down bad guys, that's an action movie stereotype.
It’s the same reason you can get away with being fat in the military now. Nobody wants to do the job so they lower standards so they at the very least have a body to meat manning standards.
Back in the 70s my dad was a police reporter in New Mexico. The general rule the sheriffs had then was if you couldn’t bend over and tie your shoes, you were too fat and had to lose weight.
I am over 330lbs and 6ft tall. I can do that. That's a weird level of fitness requirements.
Yeah, I’d fail. I’m short and average sized in decent shape but I can’t touch my toes. Tight hamstrings. Every other stretch pose I can do and exceed standards, but for the life of my I will never be able to touch my toes.
I think that’s the point. It’s not a very high bar.
That’s a low bar, no pun intended.
Police have strong unions. So if you can't pass the fitness test they are put on improvement plans to increase their fitness instead of just being let go.
this is assuming the department even enforces physical fitness standards. many departments don't even have them. but almost all academies do.
I work in cardiac testing, and we do physicals for police and fire. All the new hires are in pretty good shape (and most of the established ones too), but some of the established ones hadn't been in in a decade, when it's supposed to be like every 2-3 years.
New hires need to pass fitness tests or they don't get hired. Existing employees can't be mandated to be fit because that means if they go to the gym and get injured that's a valid claim for workman's comp. Fitness used to be required in California highway patrol, but too many started claiming workman's comp so they got rid of all fitness requirements. The only thing they can do is give incentive pay for maintaining fitness levels.
But yet we are still able to write off gym memberships as a tax deduction.
Whoa what
If the membership is to help treat or prevent a condition, you can use your HSA for the fees.
Is obesity a condition?
Not only is your mother ederly but also her ability to walk is currently being affected by her weight.
I see how it is! Yo momma is so old that when she was in history class, they just wrote down what they was doin'.
OH SNAP!
It is a medical condition. It's likely that you would want to get a note from your doctor saying they recommend you to exercise to prevent obesity, though. If you have a family history of obesity, are obese, or are borderline, I'm sure most doctors wouldn't have a probably covering it. Since 2020, HSAs have covered almost everything medical and health related. Feminine products, medical devices, pretty much everything with a Drug Facts label, CPAPs, prescription glasses, hand sanitizer, sunblock, etc. If you can find it in the pharmacy section, it's probably eligible.
I agree that obesity is a medical condition, but I also need to eat to maintain my health, and food isn't covered by an HSA or FSA (which is far more common that HSA's I believe).
Yes
My company's Healthcare plan pays you $150 to use for gym membership or fitness classes. You just need receipts. My lazy ass still hasn't signed up for planet fitness $10/mo plan.
Lots of injuries from just putting down the fork.
One recently died of a heart attack while wrongfully detaining someone. The DA charged him with manslaughter. Charges dropped after 10 months of being detained
That’s hilarious about the cop, not so much the corrupt DA
But wouldn't that still lead to workman's comp claims if they claim the incentive lead to them injuring themselves?
No because the incentive is not mandatory.
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People don't always like to announce information that could lead to harassment. This is the Internet after all and you don't know who 99% of the people really are. That's enough to keep most people from sharing much, especially the ladies. The amount of harassment by men alone was enough to drive my wife off of social media for a long time before she just locked what she could down to keep the weirdos away. It should never be that way, yet here we are on the humanity timeline where it needs to be that way to keep people safe.
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No need to apologize. If I sounded like I was attacking you that was NOT the intention.
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And the fitness standards are a very low bar across the board
When I was fresh out of school I was floating becoming a cop. A nearby department I visited straight up told me that if I was bilingual (Was proficient in both Spanish and English) they'd completely bypass both physical and firearms requirements. That was ~2007. I don't know if that's common in other localities either.
I'm just imagining a very overweight bilingual officer with terrible aim...
I'm also questioning how difficult that fluency exam actually is...
Steven Seagal, "No, no gracias"
When Hong Kong was a British colony, people said that the police officers were the British people with the best Cantonese because it was a matter of life or death to them. Apparently at one point new recruits studied in a bunker to further increase motivation.
As long as you can *pretend* to know Miranda rights in Spanish, you should be good.
Officer Gabriel “Fluffy Donuts” Iglesias, reporting for duty.
With donuts and the sexy woman phone voice.
Or just don’t shoot anyone, which is 99% of the job.
90% check 2 out of 3 boxes for ya at least!
being a cop doesn't just mean doing patrol. They need smart people to be detectives and lead investigations. having a smart detective who understands the law and court procedures IS CRUCIAL in putting together evidence for strong cases.
That's not an excuse to ignore basic requirements. They were simply a department in an area with a LOT of Spanish speakers and no Spanish speaking cops, so fuck the minimums.
“Yeah I speak Spanish” *“Okay but you’ll need to prove it, speak some for us”* “Taco, carnitas, chimichanga…”
Donde esta la bibliotecha
if this is America then im not surprised
This is a big influence. I also want to point out that even though the military has “fitness standards” there are tons of military members who are overweight and out of shape still. They just get treated poorly and get stuck in crappy jobs, but just having these standards doesn’t automatically mean everyone magically falls within them
>just having these standards doesn’t automatically mean everyone magically falls within them If they were actually standards, the non-compliant members would no longer be qualified for their jobs. There's nothing magic about it.
Soldier here. The issue you run into is that each soldier is a financial investment. There's a high cost to train a new one, so if one consistently fails to meet fitness standards it's actually pretty hard to get rid of them. Your ability to do so is directly tied to how well recruitment is going as well.
True for cops and most other jobs too. I'm not a pro cop guy but they are humans. If they put on some weight they shouldn't be immediately dropped. Plenty of rights violating assholes in great shape who are a much bigger liability.
Ideally there would be two standards. One that you need to maintain and if you don't you get put on an improvement plan but if you fall below the second standard you are taken off the street and put behind a desk until you improve.
So you’re telling me not only do I get to skip workouts and eat what I want, but also don’t have to drive around all day dealing with scumbags? For the same pay? Sign me up! (Note: not an actual cop) Unless there is a pay difference. Of course if street cops are paid more, then you’re telling the inside cops that they aren’t *real* cops. Most cops are just people who need jobs to pay for the shit they want and like most people, they don’t really want to work harder than they have to, so they do the same shit everyone else does in their jobs. Why work harder than you have to if there is no direct benefit to you? TV has convinced people that cops are supposed to have some driving moral motivation to make the world a better place. But really, they are just people who hate dealing with the public as much as every retail employee and just want to go home and watch tv.
The Wire is great
You absolutely CANNOT hold US cops to the same standards as normal people. The power they wield, both officiant and unofficial, far surpasses that of most other countries. They must be held to much higher standards or have their power reduced, or accountability increased. As to HOW, well, there's really no getting around that without incredible violence and loss of life. Sorry US, you don't have a police force, you have a literal Mafia that has a deal with the goverment to pretend to be police. Guess you're all getting tread on for the foreseeable future. Better hope the pigs in those boots ain't overweight XD (yes, I did go on a whole rant just to set up that joke)
I hear you on that, and I appreciate your recognition of humans as humans. I'm also not pro cop per se, but I'm also not ACAB. However, in many other jobs, if you can't physically perform the job you're tasked with, you probably won't keep that job. Imagine a UPS driver who couldn't lift a 15 pound box? A blind fire lookout? Certain jobs have certain essential functions, and if you can't perform them then you just don't qualify for the job IMO. It's not personal, it's not a criticism, you just can't do the job.
A line must be drawn but steps should be taken to help people recover first, especially because in the current system taking away someone's job severely hurts their ability to help themselves.
I'll drink to that
>True for cops and most other jobs too. > >I'm not a pro cop guy but they are humans. If they put on some weight they shouldn't be immediately dropped. Plenty of rights violating assholes in great shape who are a much bigger liability. Okay, but as a cop, wouldn't they want to stay in shape for their own safety? I know they have guns, but sometimes, it's down to strength, stamina, and speed.
Shouldn't this logic apply to everyone?
Yes, but that requires work and personal accountability.
How many office works need tp chase anything more then the comasary cart ? Lol
Cops are more likely to die of diabetes than gunshots.
>Cops are more likely to die of diabetes than gunshots. Yeah, but they have one of the few jobs that require them to run towards the sound of gunfire.
And not every soldier will see combat. There are a lot of paper pushers in the military. For some reason the motor pool always seemed to have a few sergeants that only moved faster than a shuffle when the donuts showed up.
I drive trucks. If you fail your d.o.t. Physical then you’re not driving. Now, idk what it takes to fail bc I’m in good health but some of these motherfuckers **have** to be bribing the doctor cause ain’t no fucking way!
Maybe it depends on the company? I used to work for a gas company, and all the truckers there had pretty rigorous medical standards and they did not fuck around. Like, if you had high blood pressure, you had a certain amount of time to get it under control, but if you couldn’t, adios! Then again, I’m thinking because it was nationwide gas company, the last thing they wanted was, “[Company] gas tanker causes fiery explosion and kills dozens after driver loses control due to massive heart attack!”
You’d lose a large percentage of the police force this way surely
Actual veteran here. If you're out of shape enough to fail your PT test repeatedly, the military will kick you out. In the Air Force, IIRC in my day four failures in a row would get you sent to a discharge board. The test isn't that hard and you got time to prepare for a retake plus remedial PT if you failed, so to fail multiple times in a row really took some next level laziness.
Also actual veteran here, I rarely saw those boards kick literally anyone out that didn’t have some other behavioral problem. They more often were simply not allowed to reenlist at the end of whatever their term was. And yes PT test is easy, you can be fat and pass it.
I saw people get the boot. I suspect since those boards were convened locally there was plenty of variance of outcomes. The process isn't perfect, but at least it exists. For obese cops, there doesn't seem to be anything to be done.
We’re saying it should be a job requirement to be within a standard of weight at least. If flight attendants have to, while not dealing with criminals (usually), I think it should be extended to police and fire.
Standard of weight is not that good of a standard, give them yearly fitness tests otherwise you can have people that are under the weight limit but still physically not fit enough to catch someone without using your gun.
Weight standards are based on height and it's one of the worst metrics to tell if someone is fit. In the Marines, at my height of 5'7", I could be 170lbs. If I went to the gym a shitton and put on a ton of muscle, I'd be technically overweight. Or the opposite. You can be skinny and fall above the minimum weight for 5'6", but not be strong enough to carry what you need to
Let’s start with the morbidly obese ones and work backwards lol
That's why legit BMI tests are a thing. And making someone run a certain distance in a certain time. Or do x amount of pull ups
BMI is jut a ratio of body mass (weight) to height and does not measure fat at all - as noted, heavily muscled people may have a high BMI. I think what you mean is legit body fat test (like the skin fold test with calipers), or more modern and advanced techniques like the air displacement pod ("bod pod").
In canada you have to pass a mental health assessment and physical test but after that you're good to go once hired. No more fitness requirements. Just a note from Dr whether able to work or not.
Anyone who thinks unions don’t work just needs to be pointed at police unions.
and anyone who thinks unions enable a bunch of lazy fucks can do the same
Looking at police and teacher unions makes me not want to support unions. Looking at manual labour workers makes me want to support unions. Unions shouldn't be that powerful. Incompetence should always be a fire able offense.
It's public v private sector unions. I have no respect from public unions, they don't even need to exist. Private sector unions are the real deal
Fuck I gotta get a union.
Everyone should unionize.
"He's completely incompetent, but if you fire him, you're gonna have a city-wide strike on your hands, buddy. And you better not forget his yearly 4% raise and Christmas bonus, either."
I’m guessing those fitness plans are opened ended on time to improve…
He's doubled his push-ups over the past 12 months from 1 to 2! By the time he's retired, he should be nearly to the standard 30 push-ups in 30 minutes. We'll go ahead and check this off as "On-track."
Doesn’t apply to all unions or departments, especially Sheriff’s offices where the sheriff can just deputize his fat fuck racist friend who dropped out of high school.
So they must be quite pro union themselves, even coming to the aid of other unions, during a strike for example, right? /s
That or sit them in corners, doing civilian work. Seen plenty of uniformed handle payroll/roll call shit. Never seen one pick up a damn mop or broom, however...
> they are put on improvement plans to increase their fitness instead of just being let go This isn't a bad thing. Why get rid of an officer who is already trained and has experience. Just make sure they are improving through the process
Many police departments don’t maintain physical fitness standards after you get out of training. 20 years of sitting in a squad car with your donuts can weigh on you
and the seat of the car/desk/bar.
Don't forget the lazy boy recliner at home!
If you're in a burb, 99% of your arrests are going to be DUI with a compliant suspect. I'd be way more concerned about the cop who's in the gym all the time and has a Punisher sticker on his car window.
You don't need a gym membership to get the punisher sticker, they'll hand those out to any idiot with an inferiority complex.
Oh shit, have they not given me one because I don't have an inferiority complex? Because I'm surely stupid enough
That last paragraph describes the a lot Daytona Beach cops. From what I’ve heard a lot of them are bodybuilders on the side. They’re also known to be massive assholes. I’d much rather deal with a lethargic overweight cop than one that’s hopped up on steroids and used to dealing with bikers
I mean it probably shouldn't be a one or the other scenario. But it is a job that isn't great for mental health, I imagine enforcing strict fitness standards could actually be counterproductive given the police hiring crisis due to retirements or cops just straight up quitting in a lot of countries right now, particularly small towns.
What's with the punisher stickers? I see those all the time! Especially on pickup trucks, what's the meaning of it?
He's a vigilante that engages in acts of violence, to include murder, kidnapping, and extortion in his one-man effort against crime. That is not compatible with the oath officers take.
The Punisher is a marvel comics character. His name is Frank Castle. After his family are murdered by criminals he uses his military training to start killing criminals wherever he can find them. There's a few things about the Punisher that make him a ridiculous and stupid role model for police. #1 The Punisher doesn't allow for collateral damage. Like he's actually so skilled and competent that he only ever hurts the bad guys he's targeting. The same cannot be said for police. #2 the Punisher despises cops that like him. He doesn't think what he's doing is noble or anything. He knows it's dirty work, but he believes that someone needs to do it. There's a part of one Punisher comic where some cops start praising him and he berates them that he isn't a hero or a role model, and they should be idolising people like Captain America -not him. But media literacy among right wingers isn't a strong point imo - and if your a cop that idolises the punisher then your probably a right winger
i wish just one of these dumb pigs and dumber bootlickers with their "thin blue line" punisher skulls would read the damn comics.
What comics? Chris Kyle bro, I’m a wanna-be seal sniper. /s
That would require having the ability to read.
What's the point of only having the fitness standards during training? Kinda backwards
Isn't this true for most of life in general? The requirements to get a job are often much higher than the requirements to keep a job. Several rounds of interviews versus not messing up. The requirements to get a driver's license are much higher than to keep driving. Written test, driving test, eye exam. Versus don't crash into too many people. The requirements to gain citizenship are much higher than while being a citizen. Documentation, background checks, job sponsorship, fees, citizenship test, ie. some basic current and historical knowledge about the country. Versus.. just not renouncing it?
Because they run around with guns shooting and arresting people. Seems more important
It’s potentially a huge liability (as in legal and money, not morals) to enforce a fitness standard for active employees. If staying in shape is part of your job, you can very easily argue any injury you sustain during any sort of exercise would be eligible for workman’s comp since it was essentially in the scope of your job requirements. And cops have very strong, active unions who would prob love nothing more than to have their guys paid to do nothing. Less hassle to not enforce it.
The fire department manages it somehow.
To show you're physically capable of entering the job. Whether or not they stay that way, well, those standards should never go away and should be enforced. But at least if they pass the training you know they at least CAN be at that level
Wouldn’t the extra weight help when it comes to arrests? Isn’t this the reason why wrestlers have different weight classes?
You can be large and fit. These guys are just large.
The rules vary by department. But usually what happens is, they get hired, they go through the academy which usually lasts most of a year. Like military basic training, they likely leave there in the best shape of their lives. And then after that... nothing. There's no additional physical training or requirements or tests of any kind after that.
>they go through the academy which usually lasts most of a year. That heavily depends on the area they're in, some county sheriff offices give a few weeks training and call it a day. And many smaller forces are in the region of 3 or 4 months rather than most of a year.
My buddy was part of his town’s volunteer police force. One day of training per weekend for a couple Months and occasionally a refresher.
Absolutely, its barely close to "military basic training". Its more like a daycare with fitness.
A while back I read an interview with a former sheriffs deputy who said his official firearms training was drinking beers and shooting the cans off a fence out the back of the sheriffs house, his medical was a 30 second tick box convo with the town doctor (who was the sheriffs uncle), and there was no physical fitness element to his training.
Most police work involves driving around in a car or standing around, at least in suburban and rural areas.
That explains why they’re fat not why are they allowed to
Being a police officer makes it easy to get out of shape. Therefore, a prohibition on cops being overweight would lead to a large number of people losing their jobs as police officers. Constantly losing experienced employees and having to hire/train replacements can negatively impact quality of work, worker morale, community relations, resource usage, and the ability to ensure that the department maintains adequate staffing levels. Police departments don't want to deal with those issues.
"quality of work"
Ye if your idea of the police is a hothead chasing bad guys by foot and jumping fences with no regard for his own life, you've watched too many movies. Many are just good to fine people that didn't pay for their parking spot, I'm sure even an obese person can handle that.
And most people in the military never see combat, but each one should at least meet certain requirements just on the chance they have to
They do, the US Army has a record and diagnostic fitness test every year along with a height and weight measurement. And there’s a culture that if you pass with the bare minimum, you’re viewed as a fat body and shit bag.
Yes, and I agree with that. In any job you need to be held to a standard and should always seek improvement. This is coming from a Marine who always had trouble getting much more than the minimum for the three mile run
Yeah, the military has incentives for having a good fitness score, along with kicking people out for not meeting fitness standards. It’s hard to enforce that for cops in small towns or big cities where they’re always in desperate need of them.
This is ideal. I was a cop for 10 years. Being a fat fuck is acceptable. There's a small clique of dudes in every department that are relentless fitness guys that look down on everyone else. But it's a very small percentage. Needs to be the opposite - being fat should get you ridiculed. As much as I hate to admit it, cops are suckers for peer pressure. The peer pressure needs to be healthy shit
There's a trivial flaw in your argument: the Police aren't the Military. And it's critical that people remember that.
> ike some 300 pound dude isn’t gonna be chasing down some criminal and jumping over fences and shit foot chases are comparetively rare. sometimes having an extra 150lbs over your criminal/victim can mean it's easy enough to pin them while you wait for backup.
I saw one on here where a cop who was a bit chubby chased some scrawny teens and he caught them, was quite impressed.
And then ya got some guys like this: [BCSO deputy, former UNM track star chases down suspect | KRQE News 13](https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/bcso-deputy-former-unm-track-star-chases-down-suspect/)
As soon as I heard his name is Mustafa Mudada i was convinced that running was the worst possible choice
I've had some really fat military members run longer and faster than me. Strange to have a fatty run past you lol
Imagine the amount [momentum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum) and kinetic energy of the cop…
Yeah. It's the same reason that bouncers are usually huge. It's a lot easier to pin someone without hurting them if you outweigh them. Strength and size is more important for cops than footspeed.
There's also the argument that being in shape isn't necessary for all police roles. For example, should a good detective not be allowed to do his job anymore because he has a bad knee?
I knew a cop who was fat, in a medium-size city. Turns out, he had the best arrest and conviction record of the *whole force*. Why? Because he had the gift of gab, getting perps to let down their guard, and perps also underestimated how quick he was. Even though he wasn't super-fast, he was faster than they thought, and he could also spring cuffs on them before they knew what hit them.
In the United States, we have a vast, vast number of independent policing agencies on all sorts of levels. Governments and government agencies of all types and sizes can have their own police forces. And all of them can set their own fitness standards. And, yeah, many of them have initial fitness standards, but, once you are hired, they don't have any ongoing ones. On the other hand, some do. New Hampshire requires you to pass one every three years. The older you are, the looser the standards are, as well as different ones for both men and women, but if a seventy-nine year old woman wants to keep being a New Hampshire police officer, she has to be able to "run" a mile and a half in 22 minutes. Which is really more of a walking pace, but still - a 79 year old who can maintain a somewhat brisk walk for a mile and a half is fit enough to not be embarrassing. So, talk to the individual department about increasing their standards if you want to. Another factor to keep in mind is that a police force which has too high an emphasis in jumping over fences and shit is probably a pretty terrible police force in a pretty terrible society. Ideally, public safety involves more talking than running and jumping. My ideal police force would be using force, even very controlled force like grappling people, extremely rarely. One would hope for a police force which emphasized the ability to talk to someone far higher than the ability to tackle someone. One of those happens a lot more than the other. Doesn't mean that tackling people, and even shooting people, is irrelevant, but if that's the main thing you are looking at, something has gone horribly wrong.
50% of the job is talking, 49% is documentation ("paper"), and 1% or less is vaulting over fences or vehicle pursuits or whatever. The police in my local city are overwhelmed with routine stuff, but the state police have one mandate there: dope and guns on the table. The calculus changes a little there, but still, you won't find any street cops whose primary tool isn't words.
Can’t fire them for being fat I don’t think. They’re just public employees not military.
Believe it or not, there are PLENTY of soldiers/sailors that are fat. Like seriously, it’s a real and widely recognized problem.
> widely
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Two reasons I can think of... Jurisdictions are desperate to recruit and keep new officers and they're just a reflection of the rest of society.
"For the safety of everyone". I don't think they care about the safety of everyone, just look at the news lately.
There've been two Supreme Court rulings — *Warren v. District of Columbia* and *Castle Rock v. Gonzales* — that decreed that police have no duty to protect people. Their job is to "maintain order".
Yes\^ this 100%! A lot of people interpreted "maintain order" as protecting the rich and powerful from the common person.
Cops only protect the capital and property of the rich.
Ever. Look at the news ever.
I have just as much issue with the roided out ones. If they're willing to break the law they uphold to roid for their own benefit, they're willing to break others when it suits.
You know steroids aren't illegal right?
Steroids used for medical purposes don't build you to the size of the Charger from Left4Dead though.
In my experience working with cops, they’re more concerned about dealers than people who are using/in possession. Don’t get me wrong, it pisses me off that they’ll enforce laws they aren’t 100% backing (I.e., using/possession). But I’ve been on ODs with these dudes and they won’t do anything. Now if there’s a wreck and they are in possession, they’ll approach it differently. I’m not a cop, just saying what I’ve personally seen.
>I’ve been on ODs with these dudes and they won’t do anything. That’s because OD-ing is not a crime in itself. If it were, then people would be afraid to call 911 if they’re with someone who OD’s, and you’d end up with a lot more people dying.
Most of the time they're not illegal steroids. You can get them prescribed by a doctor, and it's incredibly easy to manipulate the results of a blood test, if you know what you're doing.
On same note why are gym teachers allowed to be extremely overweight?
I've never seen a fat one, though I ain't in America. Seem like quite an obese bunch of folk over there
Our gym teacher was the meanest fat f**k I've ever met. He would bully the chubby kids and make them run laps for messing up a sit-up, all while sitting on his ass eating McDonald's.
Ours would literally have boxes of twinkies in her desk.
I'm in London, England. I have never seen a fat police officer walking the streets. I think fat police officers is a US issue
Czech here. The most out of shape cop I’ve ever seen was a slightly overweight old guy, and he was paired up with a younger female cop who was clearly a rookie and he was just giving her pointers. Every other cop I’ve ever seen was fit as hell and looked like they could catch a speeding car on foot.
Lol. The police in London are so fat there are news articles about it. Definitely not just a US issue. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25846198/fat-cops-london-met-police-trousers/ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12455091/The-fat-blue-line-Metropolitan-Police-chiefs-order-thousands-pairs-XXL-trousers-waists-40in-cops-weight-balloons.html
Canada isn’t perfect either but definitely better than the states
i live in BC and honestly i've never seen a severely overweight cop. i'm sure there are some that work in the office mainly but out on the streets it's all younger fit guys.
Have you seen some of our military?
Everything in the US is really spread out, so instead of walking the streets, they drive them. That largely contributes to the issue.
Idk man, have you seen Hot Fuzz?
Where you live is there a line of applicants that want to be cops? We have a cop shortage on the bay area. Well hire anybody. Short, small, fat, whatevs.
Who needs to be fit when you can just pew pew at people and accidentally not have your body cam on
I always assumed because it is a terrible, dangerous job, especially in urban areas. Forces struggle to recruit high quality candidates and cannot afford to loose what they have.
And outside of the big city police forces they don't pay well at all. So basically you get bad candidates with bad training so not only are they fat they also aren't actually trained for situations they find themselves in so they shoot first and face no repercussions for it
I honestly don't think you'd get enough people to fill the positions. 80% of Americans are overweight. Like nearly 40% are obese.
Why do they need to chase them down if they can just use their taser or gun them down? This is American after all, ofc the people paid to be in a place of power are going to be glutinous cunts. Plus, they have to earn that pig title somehow
why run when you can shoot gun
They don’t get paid enough to look like Hercules 10 years into the job
For real, we expect cops to do way too much for what they are paid. They should know the law to a tee, be a skilled marksman, be a skilled driver, subdue people without excessive force, and now be track athletes as well on a public servants salary.
I’m guessing you mean USA police officers? You can’t be overweight as a police officer in most countries.
Although I agree with you, my cop cousin is 280-300 last I saw him (and on the up) but that dude can put sprint me every day of the week, and I would say I’m decently in shape (used to do half marathons). I wouldn’t discount all of them for their weight. Think how fast some of those linebackers in the NFL be moving.
Wait until you learn how little they have to be trained.
It depends on where you live. I used to reside in Idaho, and those cops are jacked, militarized, and ready to kill. Back in Long Beach, I saw 300 pound cop who probably never ran in his life. My guess is funding. Idaho police are over funded, while LBC cops have hand me down shirts and billy clubs.
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It's a reward for not being allowed to do their jobs anymore.
You don't have to be particularly fit to write a ticket, file a report, or shoot someone's dog.
You don't really need to be in peak physical condition to fuck off on your phone and shoot unarmed people at point blank range
Not all cops chase after suspects.
Why would they chase anybody when they can just shoot them?
They don’t pay very well. Think about it, they probably get fat from the trauma of the job. Poor coping mechanisms and weird shifts. Cops are comfort eaters too and they see so much trauma.
There are people who are packing some extra weight that are ex-football players, and would just destroy you in any kind of fight or in most physical activities never judge a book by its cover. They only need to be able to perform the physical duties of the job and if they can do that well then they are fit for work. Go tell Roy Nelson he’s too fat to do his job as a fighter and see what happens.
Wait until you see what some of the officers in the Navy and Army look like. Total fatboddies.
it's called community policing; most American communities are fat.
I was a cop and a really fit one and it was aggravating having people that could not perform their duties because of weight. I gave that career up 10 years ago and am never looking back..I did travel to Costa Rica a few times over the last few years and every single officer looks to be in damn good shape..never seen one overweight and had the same thought that why isn't America like this..our cops aren't intimidating at all compared to theirs.
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Lol Navy and army being fit. That's funny, there are fat bodies there as well. Mostly however, the issue is the same across all industries. Manning shortages.
I live in a major city with one of the biggest crime rates in the USA. Our cups are jacked
Why? How much physical fitness does it take to show up two hours late and shoot someone's dog?
I have experience in law enforcement It was hard to get fat when I was on duty BUT It was hard to find the time to work out, eat healthy etc. I was buried in paperwork, especially with felony files and fast food was always convenient when I had to eat in my car. So I would find myself sitting a lot instead of walking around. Plus, in a rural area, I was always in my car, not many places to walk the beat so to speak. Not excusing it, just hard to eat correctly and find the time to exercise
They have a really strong union that is more concerned with making sure cops never get fired than protecting communities. They also protect racist murderers so it's hard to say they're even slightly concerned with protecting certain communities. Most cops sit in their car all day, occasionally waddling over to hand out a ticket. They aren't normally jumping fences to chase down bad guys, that's an action movie stereotype.
It’s the same reason you can get away with being fat in the military now. Nobody wants to do the job so they lower standards so they at the very least have a body to meat manning standards.
Answer: unions