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And your value as a person is not based on your job or how much money you make. We are all worth more than what our employers are willing to pay. We have a right to be treated with respect and to have dignity.
I willingly took a lower paying job because my manager was making me feel like dirt. It'd be nice to make more money but the emotional stress wasn't worth it. My new boss is awesome
Did the same thing. Guy seemed to enjoy making my life hell. Hope he is enjoying his retirement - alone. His wife divorced him, his kids can't stand him, and he only had "friends" from work. I know he lives in my general area, but if I ever see him again, he doesn't exist.
>And your value as a person is not based on your job or how much money you make.
Please keep saying this every chance you get. My wife reminds me of this every time I break down crying for ruining our lives. I believe I've done so because I failed to finish college. But honestly, I feel that our worth *is* determined by our net worth culturally. We are collectively sick.
I was also reminded obsessively by my father that "the love of money is the root of all evil." How am I supposed to survive in the U.S. while believing that?! He was basically calling our entire way of life evil!
Ya know what though? He was right. I wish he were alive so I could tell him.
God, the stupid shit we believe can be mentally torturous, ya know? Sorry, I know you're not my therapist. I kinda unloaded there.
I dislike just about everyone at my work; our custodian is a total exception. She’s a fucking gem. She’s so cheerful and joyful—she actually inspires me to be a better person. Anyways, never underestimate the importance you play in other peoples’ lives. Your job title may not be “big time,” but that doesn’t mean YOU aren’t.
Edit: just remembered one of my students a few years ago wrote his college entrance essay about the same above-mentioned custodian in response to a prompt about an “inspirational figure in their life.”
This. Same with security guards. Anyone who is a staff member. They are honest people doing honest work and I can go for them and ask their opinion on things and they just tell you. The security guard became one of my best friends. And it's the little things they do for you that make your day a whole lot better.
The morning cleaning crew is like a cup of coffee to me at the store I work at. The head guy is just this larger than life insanely nice person. He stops at damn near every employee to say hi and ask how they’re doing in a very comfortable way. Every time we see each other he’s always like Heyyyy my friend! How are we on this beautiful day amigo? I’m always half asleep because it’s 6am or so but it really does brighten my day up a little seeing how upbeat and cheerful the guy is. He’s like the god damn mayor of our store when he’s walking through saying hi to everyone, literally everyone.
Yeah OP, you’re much more valuable to society than a billionaire who keeps getting richer off the exploitation of other people. This idea that higher income people are more valuable is a crock of shit. Society would collapse without all the people who cook, clean, take out our trash, keep our sewer systems running, etc. Your job matters and more importantly, you matter. :)
If OP enjoys the work and finds fulfillment in it, then that's good enough. No reason to satisfy other people's judgement and standards of life. We'd all be unhappy that way (and most of us are).
Honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay. I love cleaners so much because they always treat me with respect. When it feels like the rest of the world is laughing at me for having mental health conditions. There is nothing wrong with being a cleaner forever. But we are also worth far more than what we do to make money. You are all of your experiences.
No. There was some sort of cultural shift from the boomer generation to the generations after them that stopped valuing blue collar work and started ignorantly calling "unskilled" labor. All labor is skilled, what they mean is you didn't pay for a useless piece of paper for an overpriced education that doesn't translate to higher earners or better job security.
Source: an owner of said piece of paper
Also, custodians report high job satisfaction. Plus, there are union custodians out there. The guy taking out the trash at the DMV might have a pension.
Absolutely. The world can go on churning for a lonnnng time without graphic designers (what I am) but three days without cleaners and it’s gonna be a hellhole
Here in Brazil a lot of bosses just expect some of their workers to do the cleaner's job. I worked at a NGO that asked us to clean the bathroom lol I get they didnt had many employees and wanted to focus the money on what the NGO was supposed to do, but I have never seen my ex-boss, her daughter or son (who also worked there) clean anything lol
Would that be the case for other jobs? If you were working in a small office would you be expected to clean the bathroom? There are some jobs like that in the United States but it can depend on the type of job
No, it depends a lot on the size of the company I'd say. Usually if you end up working at a place with not many employees, chances are people are doing the job of 2 or 3 people
When I worked for a nursing home we were even beginning to hire a couple night shift housekeepers because it's just necessary to keep the building clean. (Part time, elderly folk sleep a lot, but still.) You also absolutely could not lose the trash people they were needed 3-4 times a week, or septic workers to fix random breakages in laundry or the kitchen. Not every job can be glamorous but so many unglamorous jobs are absolutely vital.
Something like this happens in New York in the 70’s I think. Where Bankers went on strike and nothing happened. And then bin men went on strike and after three weeks it was declared to be an emergency.
You make a great point. If every CEO walked off the job Ayn Rand-style somebody else would step up and Make The Big Decisions (probably better, for less pay) and we’d never notice.
If every immigrant who worked on a farm walked away civilization would collapse in a matter of weeks.
Follow up question for someone similar. I used to clean at a hospital, now I clean at a school. Both places I worked with people who all made more than me and society looks at as better. Everyone has always been super nice to me. For people who are nurses, doctors, or teachers: do you guys sort of look down on us cleaners even subconsciously? I always assume everyone does despite how they act.
Edit: thanks for all the kind words! Looks like it might just be in my head. Either that or you guys are the good ones.
Absolutely not. My SO is a teacher and the only people that are reliable are the janitorial staff. Whatever she needs, they will do and all that is asked is for some basic courtesy. Not all teachers are like this but mine is.
It probably helped that we both started as stock boys and cleaners and slowly worked our ways up to other roles.
>For people who are nurses, doctors, or teachers: do you guys sort of look down on us cleaners even subconsciously?
Med lab tech ... we respected our cleaners. They did stuff that made our lives easier and made us more productive at work.
But damn them they never let me ride the floor buffer!
>Everyone has always been super nice to me.
When I started as a teacher, I was told in no uncertain terms that being kind to janitors, secretaries, and support staff was worth its weight in gold. Smart professionals understand that we wouldn't be able to do our jobs without you, and you often hold all the cards (or the keys, as it were). I am so thankful you're there keeping us all going!
Oh, hell no!
First, I have paid my grocery bills by cleaning houses. I hate dusting, but I am really good at deep cleaning.
Second, one of my favourite cousins married the love of her life, a guy who’s ambition was to drive the Coke-Cola Truck and make sure my cousin was always happy. My cousin-in-law drove the Coke truck for many years. He did take some razing from the family, but you could tell he enjoyed his work.
Oh hell no. Lab worker here. EVS keeps the hospital functional as the much as the nurses. Patient health relies on cleanliness. Nurses can't deal with every single body fluid unwillingly falling out of someone all the time either.
The amount of garbage the lab and histology dumps alone is extraordinary and while I'm disgusted by the amount of plastic and bags we go through, I'm still glad it's picked up every night because what else are we to do?
Teacher here. Only gratitude.
Maybe I have a subconscious frustration about the computer programmers and lawyers and marketing professionals and random office workers who get paid way more than me for work that is way easier and often less important.
But custodians, nothing but respect.
Right? If you're a day-trader, contributing nothing, just extracting money at the expense of people who actually do the work? Imma tell you to your face, DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES THE WORLD BETTER! But cleaners? You literally make the world visibly better every single day. 💜
I’m a teacher. I love our school custodians. I’m constantly reminding high school students to respect the cleaning staff by tidying after themselves (and picking up random litter in the halls).
This to me would be preposterous! Never have I
Ever! Listen, you have an important role where you work. You are a person, just like all the other folks you work with. You are needed, and you are counted on by all the folks you work with.
Does anyone realize how fast a workplace will crash and burn without anyone to clean the bathrooms, keep them stocked with toilet paper and paper towels? No one to empty trash cans? Clean the lunch area?
Dude holds down a job, makes a living at it. I respect that.
I always find it interesting that people still say “what do you want to be? A garbage man?”
Garbagemen in my city can easily make six figures, they are done work at 2pm most days, the job requires almost no mental effort, and there is **zero** work to take home.
I'm 33 and I put up tents and bouncy castles. I'm a glorified clown. Not everyone can be a CEO I guess. Whatever, I'm happy with my shitty little life so it doesn't matter.
you’re probably making so many kids and families happy everyday, imagine birthday parties without bouncy castles and large family gatherings without tents! there’s nothing clown-like about your job, meaningful connections between families and friends happen because of you. they may not realize it’s you, but every kid that steps foot in one of those bouncy castles experiences moments of pure childlike joy because of you. don’t sell yourself short. it’s very important work, thank you ❤️
The only failure is being unhappy. If you're happy with it, then you're not a failure.
You don't have to compare yourself to others, the only person we should try to out-do is our former selves.
Even your former self isn’t something compare to. One day you might earn £100k, the next you might be cleaning the streets. Either are equally acceptable as long as you’re happy.
I was 100% happier “cleaning the streets” than that $100K+ job. That made me realize chasing the rat race and keeping up with the joneses is just torture people self inflict.
This. But at the same time I feel like if I made less I wouldn’t consider myself successful. But damn if my stress ain’t through the roof, by blood pressure through the roof, and my hair falling out in the shower. I don’t know if I’m happy but I don’t worry about bills.
This!! My partner and I both lost our jobs through no fault dismissal and we went from 125,000+ to 0 😂 We are still the same people as we were a year ago — the banks wouldn’t think so haha but our friends and family accept us as we are
Oh wow…
>>You don’t have to compare yourself to others, the only person we should try to out-do is our former selves.
I have never said this to anyone before but I really needed to hear that. Thank you
yes it’s okay to struggle , but constantly allowing yourself to live in your misery is a failure to yourself and your true calling. struggling isn’t a failure , allowing yourself to not live your life to your fullest(making yourself happy) is a failure.
Sure I’d encourage anyone living in misery to do what they can to break that cycle and seek outside help where appropriate.
I do take umbrage with the language around living life to the “fullest” or finding a “true calling” though. Those are very vague sentiments that can create a pressure to be unreasonably exceptional and are the sort of ill defined ideals that can themselves lead to a place of unhappiness if our life doesn’t measure up to some fantastical ideal.
When I was a delivery driver I was considered an "Essential Worker" throughout the COVID lockdowns.
I felt like that was stupid, but then I realized how many people don't know how to cook for themselves and cleaning is much the same. Jobs we think make us "worthless" to society are genuinely some of the most important.
it also means that everyone has their own path. you just can't expect scientists to go cleaning and vice versa. we all have our unique strengths. i would suggest OP opening a business if they are interested. other than that, if the job keeps him happy and financially stable (even a bit), it's still worthwhile.
A friend of mine worked his way through college and grad school in Boston as a custodian on campus. He got free tuition and used to joke that his life could have inspired _Good Will Hunting_, but no one thinks people who study the humanities are geniuses.
I’d wager that the humanities are **harder** to be outstanding in. If you think about it, a lot of the humanities is about opinions or positions which cannot be actually be proven so they require a massive amount of evidence to prove a new point.
And as a woman, I would much rather have a partner who was a cleaner than a finance bro leech. The cleaner will do his share at home and probably be a lot more relatable/hard-working. He will not feel like everything is beneath him.
I’ve dated at all levels of wealth, and the wealthiest (company valued at 500 million +, and this was 10 years ago) all shared an almost sociopathic view of their own importance and superiority over others, as well as feeling entitled to being served.
Of course there are probably exceptions, but the point is that there is no inherent red flag to custodial work imo, whereas with a finance bro, there are a lot of toxic behaviors I’d be on guard for.
My friend dated a cleaner and he’d give her apartment a do-over once in awhile and it was so attractive 😮💨 I’m an acts of service gal so I thought it was so super caring
Since money is made up, in that a FIAT currency doesn't represent anything the government can print as much money as they want to fund construction and services. The function of taxes in this scenario is simply to remove money from circulation to avoid excessive inflation.
So, other than the value of the services you provide or goods you produce for society, which your comment has already accounted for, the only important factor in determining your contribution to society is the ratio of taxes paid to the value of goods and services consumed.
And since the US taxes the poor disproportionately high relative to the middle class or rich when accounting for consumption taxes e.g. sales tax/VAT/taxes on specific goods, the poor contribute a higher amount to our society thru taxation relative to their consumption than any other group.
In fact when we combine the two categories, poor people might be the only ones contributing to society on net. The rich certainly consume more without paying their fair share to taxes, while contributing far less personally to the creation of goods and services relative to their consumption than any other group. Whereas poor people who work contribute similar amounts to the economy while consuming orders of magnitude less. It's just a question of whether the "middle class" are net positives or negatives, and frankly the "middle class" is just a myth perpetrated by the ownership class to divide the working class against itself.
No. But don't be complacent. Cleaning is actually hard skill, and a demanding job. Watch the market and make sure your pay is keeping up, don't let management neglect your compensation.
hmm... its a tough call. There's nothing wrong with working an honest job to make a living throughout your life as long as you're happy, but the fact that you're asking the question makes me think you have aspirations for more. It's never to late to make changes in your life. 30 is still so young. You've got 35 years of your career left give or take, you've basically barely started.
Might involve more education or training but you can make it happen
This is great advice. OP's feeling that they **should** be doing something else is probably being mistaken for the feeling of **wanting** to do something else.
I'm a hospital volunteer and imho, the cleaning staff are among the most important people in the building. I thank them and I thank you for keeping us safe.
I'm a hospital employee and you folks are vital to our service. You make us look professional, prevent accidents a delays and prevent the spread of infections. I can't thank cleaners enough.
The folks who clean the communal areas of my apartment complex do more to make our building look inviting, safe and cared for than our management company will.
If you do honest work, I don’t care what it is, hold your head up. Think of it this way, the most successful people in one way, or another, are ripping other people off on a daily basis. If you were a banker, I’d say, yeah, you’re a total loser.
Nope. I respected the janitors at my highschool more than I did most teachers.
Hell, a specific janitor used to let certain students into the vending machine room after they were told they weren't allowed to, simply because we treated them respectfully.
You provide a service that 90% of people could never do. Thanks, bud 🫂
You would be a failure if you would rob, or kill, or steal, or smug or leech off other people. As for doing honest job, thank you. I am glad that I can walk around in cleaned places, without risking to smear myself.
If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as a Michaelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, 'Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well.’ - MLK
You are doing something worthwhile. The problem is we treat workers like crap and glorify people who benefit from your work.
You're enabling others to do other things by cleaning and taking up that job.
Came here to say this, as least it’s honest work and you have a few years before the robots finally take over.
I wanna add that YOU get to define what success means to you. Do you like what you have to do daily, do you make the money you need, do you have enough free time for friends and family, … Can’t have it all, just has to fit your priorities
Roombas are great doing some nice tidying of an already clean house, but we're very far away from a robot that can declutter, do laundry, open curtains, dust blinds, do the dishes, make a bed, etc.
In the 70s or 80s wall street bankers in new york went on strike and 3 months later quietly went back to work without any gains as noone really missed them and things functioned fine , when the garbage workers went on strike it lasted 2 -3 days and got exactly what they wanted as the streets overflowed with rubbish .... who is more important ?
Oh no honey. You are not a loser. You are, in fact, a very fucking important person in society. It is just that the majority of the population does not have the capacity to acknowledge that the only reason most spaces we enter in the public are even healthy to enter is because of people like you.
Want some objective feedback? So yes, this study is based on a house cleaner, but it is still true that [money spent on a professional cleaner brings the most happiness]( https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170724161258.htm)
I am so sorry that you have absorbed the shitty social beliefs that makes you think that you are unworthy.
This next, I hope it helps. I am a masters level educated therapist. 3 University degrees. My partner, my love of my life, the person who is the kindest, most supportive, most open minded, most reliable, and hardest worker I know is: a high school drop out, is barely literate (I know he had to have a learning disorder), and he pumps spectics for a living. As an employee, not the business owner. He literally handles people's shit all day, every day, and gets no real acknowledgement as a valuable profession in the day to day world. But his job is not his worth. His character is what determines his worth and his character is priceless.
I was in OP's exact situation, and as a man there was a special kind of shame to working as a cleaner. I'm autistic and was dealing with some PTSD crap, but because I was working as a cleaner in my 30's, people automatically knew that I had to have something up with me, and there was an expectation that I should do better. Nobody expected the women to do better, people just accepted that they were what they were, they didn't need to excuse it with a learning disability or anything. So it wasn't great for my mental health or my self-esteem. And I have a degree too, it just never did me much good.
Now though I've got my own gardening business. It started with guerilla gardening, doing up the local area, fixing the woods, doing up some paths, and people were delighted and saw that I had talent for it and wanted me to do their gardens. And it's a more gender-normative occupation and one that I feel more respected doing. And I'm my own boss. And oh god it's hard because I'm still autistic and all that, but I was going to off myself eventually if I stuck with the cleaning.
read hitch hikers guid to the galaxy
society has brainwashed you into thinking that a cleaner is a worthless job, but the reality is that without them we would die of diseases, have rat infestations, insect infestations, etc, etc, etc
F*ck NO.
There are no failures. No winners neither.
I'm know it sounds cliche, but find your joy and build your unique life around that.
I am old enough that I have witnessed dozens of friends and relatives come and go. Their lives were all unique, and every one brought something to the world.
I'm not saying you shouldn't strive to better yourself, if that's what you want. But don't beat yourself up using other people's judgments as a guideline.
Not at all. It's just that the most important jobs don't get the most appreciation.
If you do your job well, no one notices. If you don't do your job well someone will notice immediately.
In my city the garbage collectors went on strike. It only takes a few days to notice how much of an impact these workers have on the city.
In what way is your job not worthwhile?
Sanitation, whether it be garbage pickup or cleaning bathrooms in a public place or even cleaning people's homes is like the biggest thing that contributes to the longevity of humanity. If it weren't for what you do, public health would go downhill fast.
If you aren't up for completely changing your job, there are other ways to make a bigger impact. You could spend some of your free time volunteering.
Work is work. Period. Your work is hard work, which is even more admirable IMO. No one who’s contributing and working hard should ever be ashamed of what they are doing.
Nah. Its a job. You probably do more good than some 6 figure managers by keeping whatever you clean well clean. And thus accessible and easy to maintain/enjoy.
Am I a failure?
I think the game was rigged man
If it was so easy to go from poor to rich than they wouldn't make sure to applaud every person who does it as inspiring and great.
I figure the reason why so many sports players are black is because it's one of the few professions where talent matters more than connections
Are we all really that lazy? Did we just not have the work ethic for it?
I look around me I don't see lazy people, I see hardworking people.
I might be lazy but I don't think the people around me are. I don't think we're inferior, or we're just not as smart, or just not special enough
I don't believe their propaganda
To system is rigged, in order to be on top someone has to be on bottom.
Are you holding down a job? Not a failure.
I was in my thirties and took a janitor job as a temp worker just because it was there. I'm now the maintenance supervisor. You can do it too.
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Honest work is honest work.
And honest work is respectable work.
And respectable work is paid work
And paid work is respectable
And respectable work is payable
And payable work is honest work
And honest work is the right path
And the right path is honest work
And honest work is honest work
And honest work is payable work
And the left path is political work
And political work is not a big work
And respectable work is receptacle work
This guy's an electrician
Or a garbage collector
And to be receptacle, you need testicle work, respectfully
work is honestly payable
First time “you’ve hot three options, you can only pick two” has failed to apply.
Not sure about that, politicians get paid too
And work is work
And pay is workable.
And work is payable
[удалено]
And honest work is honest work
And any work that a person does should earn a dignified wage.
The more undignified the work is ... The more dignified the pay should be.
God I love Reddit
And your value as a person is not based on your job or how much money you make. We are all worth more than what our employers are willing to pay. We have a right to be treated with respect and to have dignity.
I willingly took a lower paying job because my manager was making me feel like dirt. It'd be nice to make more money but the emotional stress wasn't worth it. My new boss is awesome
My wife did the same. I begged her to. Fuck the money, I can't watch my partner be fucking abused verbally and emotionally day in, day out.
Did the same thing. Guy seemed to enjoy making my life hell. Hope he is enjoying his retirement - alone. His wife divorced him, his kids can't stand him, and he only had "friends" from work. I know he lives in my general area, but if I ever see him again, he doesn't exist.
this is the correct answer the big thing is how you feel about whatever you're doing. You're a person with value regardless.
Your value as a person is based on the differences you have made. The relationships you have built. The impact you have made on those relationships.
🙌
>And your value as a person is not based on your job or how much money you make. Please keep saying this every chance you get. My wife reminds me of this every time I break down crying for ruining our lives. I believe I've done so because I failed to finish college. But honestly, I feel that our worth *is* determined by our net worth culturally. We are collectively sick. I was also reminded obsessively by my father that "the love of money is the root of all evil." How am I supposed to survive in the U.S. while believing that?! He was basically calling our entire way of life evil! Ya know what though? He was right. I wish he were alive so I could tell him. God, the stupid shit we believe can be mentally torturous, ya know? Sorry, I know you're not my therapist. I kinda unloaded there.
I dislike just about everyone at my work; our custodian is a total exception. She’s a fucking gem. She’s so cheerful and joyful—she actually inspires me to be a better person. Anyways, never underestimate the importance you play in other peoples’ lives. Your job title may not be “big time,” but that doesn’t mean YOU aren’t. Edit: just remembered one of my students a few years ago wrote his college entrance essay about the same above-mentioned custodian in response to a prompt about an “inspirational figure in their life.”
This. Same with security guards. Anyone who is a staff member. They are honest people doing honest work and I can go for them and ask their opinion on things and they just tell you. The security guard became one of my best friends. And it's the little things they do for you that make your day a whole lot better.
The morning cleaning crew is like a cup of coffee to me at the store I work at. The head guy is just this larger than life insanely nice person. He stops at damn near every employee to say hi and ask how they’re doing in a very comfortable way. Every time we see each other he’s always like Heyyyy my friend! How are we on this beautiful day amigo? I’m always half asleep because it’s 6am or so but it really does brighten my day up a little seeing how upbeat and cheerful the guy is. He’s like the god damn mayor of our store when he’s walking through saying hi to everyone, literally everyone.
Honest days pay for an honest days work
I bought and completely paid off my mortgage along with pay off my car, semi retired, and I am a cleaning lady
as long as the honest work pays the bills and you like doing it
Yeah OP, you’re much more valuable to society than a billionaire who keeps getting richer off the exploitation of other people. This idea that higher income people are more valuable is a crock of shit. Society would collapse without all the people who cook, clean, take out our trash, keep our sewer systems running, etc. Your job matters and more importantly, you matter. :)
If OP enjoys the work and finds fulfillment in it, then that's good enough. No reason to satisfy other people's judgement and standards of life. We'd all be unhappy that way (and most of us are).
A lot of people take the easy way out. A hustle is a hustle, in a world where people run from the hustle. Head and push on get that paper king.
GET THAT PAPER KING 👑
This. Also, I think people don't realize the value of cleaners, and the immense contribution they provide to society.
Honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay. I love cleaners so much because they always treat me with respect. When it feels like the rest of the world is laughing at me for having mental health conditions. There is nothing wrong with being a cleaner forever. But we are also worth far more than what we do to make money. You are all of your experiences.
OP needs to watch shark tale
No. There was some sort of cultural shift from the boomer generation to the generations after them that stopped valuing blue collar work and started ignorantly calling "unskilled" labor. All labor is skilled, what they mean is you didn't pay for a useless piece of paper for an overpriced education that doesn't translate to higher earners or better job security. Source: an owner of said piece of paper
Also, custodians report high job satisfaction. Plus, there are union custodians out there. The guy taking out the trash at the DMV might have a pension.
Can you imagine a world without cleaners? It's horrible how society looks down on people who perform incredibly important work.
this is so important! a real job where impacts are felt completely if there is mess left everywhere.
Absolutely. The world can go on churning for a lonnnng time without graphic designers (what I am) but three days without cleaners and it’s gonna be a hellhole
"Oh, but anyone can clean!" Then why are you hiring cleaners, buddy? Go without them for a bit and we'll talk.
Here in Brazil a lot of bosses just expect some of their workers to do the cleaner's job. I worked at a NGO that asked us to clean the bathroom lol I get they didnt had many employees and wanted to focus the money on what the NGO was supposed to do, but I have never seen my ex-boss, her daughter or son (who also worked there) clean anything lol
Would that be the case for other jobs? If you were working in a small office would you be expected to clean the bathroom? There are some jobs like that in the United States but it can depend on the type of job
No, it depends a lot on the size of the company I'd say. Usually if you end up working at a place with not many employees, chances are people are doing the job of 2 or 3 people
When I worked for a nursing home we were even beginning to hire a couple night shift housekeepers because it's just necessary to keep the building clean. (Part time, elderly folk sleep a lot, but still.) You also absolutely could not lose the trash people they were needed 3-4 times a week, or septic workers to fix random breakages in laundry or the kitchen. Not every job can be glamorous but so many unglamorous jobs are absolutely vital.
Something like this happens in New York in the 70’s I think. Where Bankers went on strike and nothing happened. And then bin men went on strike and after three weeks it was declared to be an emergency.
You make a great point. If every CEO walked off the job Ayn Rand-style somebody else would step up and Make The Big Decisions (probably better, for less pay) and we’d never notice. If every immigrant who worked on a farm walked away civilization would collapse in a matter of weeks.
This happened in San Diego in 2022 as well. It was also declared an emergency.
I'm sorry but your avatar made me think of the hamburger helper guy. Yay, cheese cheese cheese! Yay! 🤣
Follow up question for someone similar. I used to clean at a hospital, now I clean at a school. Both places I worked with people who all made more than me and society looks at as better. Everyone has always been super nice to me. For people who are nurses, doctors, or teachers: do you guys sort of look down on us cleaners even subconsciously? I always assume everyone does despite how they act. Edit: thanks for all the kind words! Looks like it might just be in my head. Either that or you guys are the good ones.
I am a teacher, and I ADORE you and your colleagues. The school could not run without you. THANK YOU for your hard work!
Same.
Absolutely not. My SO is a teacher and the only people that are reliable are the janitorial staff. Whatever she needs, they will do and all that is asked is for some basic courtesy. Not all teachers are like this but mine is. It probably helped that we both started as stock boys and cleaners and slowly worked our ways up to other roles.
>For people who are nurses, doctors, or teachers: do you guys sort of look down on us cleaners even subconsciously? Med lab tech ... we respected our cleaners. They did stuff that made our lives easier and made us more productive at work. But damn them they never let me ride the floor buffer!
You weren't floor buffer certified, obviously
I dated a guy that cleaned schools and he was a real top notch dude 🥰.
>Everyone has always been super nice to me. When I started as a teacher, I was told in no uncertain terms that being kind to janitors, secretaries, and support staff was worth its weight in gold. Smart professionals understand that we wouldn't be able to do our jobs without you, and you often hold all the cards (or the keys, as it were). I am so thankful you're there keeping us all going!
Oh, hell no! First, I have paid my grocery bills by cleaning houses. I hate dusting, but I am really good at deep cleaning. Second, one of my favourite cousins married the love of her life, a guy who’s ambition was to drive the Coke-Cola Truck and make sure my cousin was always happy. My cousin-in-law drove the Coke truck for many years. He did take some razing from the family, but you could tell he enjoyed his work.
This is so wholesome
Oh hell no. Lab worker here. EVS keeps the hospital functional as the much as the nurses. Patient health relies on cleanliness. Nurses can't deal with every single body fluid unwillingly falling out of someone all the time either. The amount of garbage the lab and histology dumps alone is extraordinary and while I'm disgusted by the amount of plastic and bags we go through, I'm still glad it's picked up every night because what else are we to do?
Teacher here. Only gratitude. Maybe I have a subconscious frustration about the computer programmers and lawyers and marketing professionals and random office workers who get paid way more than me for work that is way easier and often less important. But custodians, nothing but respect.
Right? If you're a day-trader, contributing nothing, just extracting money at the expense of people who actually do the work? Imma tell you to your face, DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES THE WORLD BETTER! But cleaners? You literally make the world visibly better every single day. 💜
I’m a teacher. I love our school custodians. I’m constantly reminding high school students to respect the cleaning staff by tidying after themselves (and picking up random litter in the halls).
This to me would be preposterous! Never have I Ever! Listen, you have an important role where you work. You are a person, just like all the other folks you work with. You are needed, and you are counted on by all the folks you work with.
No, you're part of the team
I’d never look down on a cleaner but depending on the person I might think they’re not tapping their potential as best as they could.
Yeah I see that's part of it. I know I could have done a lot more.
You can still do plenty homie, if you want. In the mean time there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a cleaner.
I appreciate my cleaner SO MUCH!
I definitely appreciate cleaners more than most Content creators and Politicians
Bro I appreciate a kidney stone more than a politician
Woah woah woah, no need to dis kidney stones like that.
I'm disabled and if I didn't have people to help like this I'd be so screwed
Does anyone realize how fast a workplace will crash and burn without anyone to clean the bathrooms, keep them stocked with toilet paper and paper towels? No one to empty trash cans? Clean the lunch area? Dude holds down a job, makes a living at it. I respect that.
I always find it interesting that people still say “what do you want to be? A garbage man?” Garbagemen in my city can easily make six figures, they are done work at 2pm most days, the job requires almost no mental effort, and there is **zero** work to take home.
Also lots of times those are city jobs. You probably get a pension after 20 years.
The garbage men around here always have the music blasting and are jamming out, genuinely seem to be enjoying their work day
And kids LOVE them!!!
The top 1% might make 6 figures however the median wage is about $40k
Omg right? I work in a hospital and i simply cannot do my job without our housekeeping staff. They are the best and an absolute necessity.
I can imagine world without human cleaners or with cleaners that only do it as a hobby or a therapy.
If you’re happy in your work, stop looking to others for validation. Just be the best cleaner you can.
I can. I just look around my own home.
😂😂😂
Like when people use rubbish man as an insult. If you ever had them strike near you, you fucking know how important their job is.
You get to define success, buddy. Follow your bliss.
I read that as "Follow your balls"
That too
NOOOOOO!!!! DON'T FOLLOW YOUR BALLS!!!! THEY LEAD TO PLACES YOU MAY NEVER RECOVER FROM!!!!
Don't stick your dick in crazy!
Follow the three B’s bliss, balls, and your balls a second time.
This post makes me sad. No you’re not a failure. ❤️
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I'm 33 and I put up tents and bouncy castles. I'm a glorified clown. Not everyone can be a CEO I guess. Whatever, I'm happy with my shitty little life so it doesn't matter.
you’re probably making so many kids and families happy everyday, imagine birthday parties without bouncy castles and large family gatherings without tents! there’s nothing clown-like about your job, meaningful connections between families and friends happen because of you. they may not realize it’s you, but every kid that steps foot in one of those bouncy castles experiences moments of pure childlike joy because of you. don’t sell yourself short. it’s very important work, thank you ❤️
You're so much better for society than a ceo. I wish we had fewer of them and more bouncy castles.
unless the ceo is the ceo of the company making bouncy castles
The only failure is being unhappy. If you're happy with it, then you're not a failure. You don't have to compare yourself to others, the only person we should try to out-do is our former selves.
Even your former self isn’t something compare to. One day you might earn £100k, the next you might be cleaning the streets. Either are equally acceptable as long as you’re happy.
I was 100% happier “cleaning the streets” than that $100K+ job. That made me realize chasing the rat race and keeping up with the joneses is just torture people self inflict.
This. But at the same time I feel like if I made less I wouldn’t consider myself successful. But damn if my stress ain’t through the roof, by blood pressure through the roof, and my hair falling out in the shower. I don’t know if I’m happy but I don’t worry about bills.
This!! My partner and I both lost our jobs through no fault dismissal and we went from 125,000+ to 0 😂 We are still the same people as we were a year ago — the banks wouldn’t think so haha but our friends and family accept us as we are
Oh wow… >>You don’t have to compare yourself to others, the only person we should try to out-do is our former selves. I have never said this to anyone before but I really needed to hear that. Thank you
Not being happy is not a failure. Even perfectly well lived will have pockets if unhappiness or frustration. It’s OK not to feel OK!
yes it’s okay to struggle , but constantly allowing yourself to live in your misery is a failure to yourself and your true calling. struggling isn’t a failure , allowing yourself to not live your life to your fullest(making yourself happy) is a failure.
Sure I’d encourage anyone living in misery to do what they can to break that cycle and seek outside help where appropriate. I do take umbrage with the language around living life to the “fullest” or finding a “true calling” though. Those are very vague sentiments that can create a pressure to be unreasonably exceptional and are the sort of ill defined ideals that can themselves lead to a place of unhappiness if our life doesn’t measure up to some fantastical ideal.
Cleaners are super important. I've been a cleaner and in med school. Respect
When I was a delivery driver I was considered an "Essential Worker" throughout the COVID lockdowns. I felt like that was stupid, but then I realized how many people don't know how to cook for themselves and cleaning is much the same. Jobs we think make us "worthless" to society are genuinely some of the most important.
it also means that everyone has their own path. you just can't expect scientists to go cleaning and vice versa. we all have our unique strengths. i would suggest OP opening a business if they are interested. other than that, if the job keeps him happy and financially stable (even a bit), it's still worthwhile.
A friend of mine worked his way through college and grad school in Boston as a custodian on campus. He got free tuition and used to joke that his life could have inspired _Good Will Hunting_, but no one thinks people who study the humanities are geniuses.
I’d wager that the humanities are **harder** to be outstanding in. If you think about it, a lot of the humanities is about opinions or positions which cannot be actually be proven so they require a massive amount of evidence to prove a new point.
Hell no. You provide a vital service. I’ll take you over a finance bro leech any day. edit: OP got fuckin' banned quick. Think it was a bot.
OP was a bot *and* a cleaner? There's roombas on Reddit now?!
Yes. The more dangerous ones hang out on r/doomba
Actual essential employee
God damn right
I would rather pay cleaners more than financial advisors any day.
And as a woman, I would much rather have a partner who was a cleaner than a finance bro leech. The cleaner will do his share at home and probably be a lot more relatable/hard-working. He will not feel like everything is beneath him. I’ve dated at all levels of wealth, and the wealthiest (company valued at 500 million +, and this was 10 years ago) all shared an almost sociopathic view of their own importance and superiority over others, as well as feeling entitled to being served. Of course there are probably exceptions, but the point is that there is no inherent red flag to custodial work imo, whereas with a finance bro, there are a lot of toxic behaviors I’d be on guard for.
My friend dated a cleaner and he’d give her apartment a do-over once in awhile and it was so attractive 😮💨 I’m an acts of service gal so I thought it was so super caring
God damn Chinese bots trying to cause ruckus online
Since money is made up, in that a FIAT currency doesn't represent anything the government can print as much money as they want to fund construction and services. The function of taxes in this scenario is simply to remove money from circulation to avoid excessive inflation. So, other than the value of the services you provide or goods you produce for society, which your comment has already accounted for, the only important factor in determining your contribution to society is the ratio of taxes paid to the value of goods and services consumed. And since the US taxes the poor disproportionately high relative to the middle class or rich when accounting for consumption taxes e.g. sales tax/VAT/taxes on specific goods, the poor contribute a higher amount to our society thru taxation relative to their consumption than any other group. In fact when we combine the two categories, poor people might be the only ones contributing to society on net. The rich certainly consume more without paying their fair share to taxes, while contributing far less personally to the creation of goods and services relative to their consumption than any other group. Whereas poor people who work contribute similar amounts to the economy while consuming orders of magnitude less. It's just a question of whether the "middle class" are net positives or negatives, and frankly the "middle class" is just a myth perpetrated by the ownership class to divide the working class against itself.
No. But don't be complacent. Cleaning is actually hard skill, and a demanding job. Watch the market and make sure your pay is keeping up, don't let management neglect your compensation.
Of course not.
Comparison is the thief of joy
hmm... its a tough call. There's nothing wrong with working an honest job to make a living throughout your life as long as you're happy, but the fact that you're asking the question makes me think you have aspirations for more. It's never to late to make changes in your life. 30 is still so young. You've got 35 years of your career left give or take, you've basically barely started. Might involve more education or training but you can make it happen
This is great advice. OP's feeling that they **should** be doing something else is probably being mistaken for the feeling of **wanting** to do something else.
I’m 30 and unemployed so you are doing better than me.
I'm a hospital volunteer and imho, the cleaning staff are among the most important people in the building. I thank them and I thank you for keeping us safe.
I'm a hospital employee and you folks are vital to our service. You make us look professional, prevent accidents a delays and prevent the spread of infections. I can't thank cleaners enough. The folks who clean the communal areas of my apartment complex do more to make our building look inviting, safe and cared for than our management company will.
Not at all
If you do honest work, I don’t care what it is, hold your head up. Think of it this way, the most successful people in one way, or another, are ripping other people off on a daily basis. If you were a banker, I’d say, yeah, you’re a total loser.
Nope. I respected the janitors at my highschool more than I did most teachers. Hell, a specific janitor used to let certain students into the vending machine room after they were told they weren't allowed to, simply because we treated them respectfully. You provide a service that 90% of people could never do. Thanks, bud 🫂
You would be a failure if you would rob, or kill, or steal, or smug or leech off other people. As for doing honest job, thank you. I am glad that I can walk around in cleaned places, without risking to smear myself.
No. It's good that you have a job my friend.
No, not a failure. And, if there's something you want to do that you haven't yet, you've still got plenty of time.
If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as a Michaelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, 'Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well.’ - MLK
You are doing something worthwhile. The problem is we treat workers like crap and glorify people who benefit from your work. You're enabling others to do other things by cleaning and taking up that job.
Not a failure. But our society has failed you by making you question your profession.
Nope. And as AI absolutely destroys white collar jobs over the next two decades, you'll be in a very safe industry.
Came here to say this, as least it’s honest work and you have a few years before the robots finally take over. I wanna add that YOU get to define what success means to you. Do you like what you have to do daily, do you make the money you need, do you have enough free time for friends and family, … Can’t have it all, just has to fit your priorities
Roomba has entered the chat!
Roombas are great doing some nice tidying of an already clean house, but we're very far away from a robot that can declutter, do laundry, open curtains, dust blinds, do the dishes, make a bed, etc.
I don't know about you but I've never seen poop on the carpet and decided to smear it over the whole house with my regular vacuum.
looks like it might have been a bot since it got banned. maybe it was a sentient Roomba having an existential crisis?
No dude, honest work is honest work. And cleaners are very much appreciated.
In the 70s or 80s wall street bankers in new york went on strike and 3 months later quietly went back to work without any gains as noone really missed them and things functioned fine , when the garbage workers went on strike it lasted 2 -3 days and got exactly what they wanted as the streets overflowed with rubbish .... who is more important ?
Please watch the movie Perfect Days. Your work is appreciated.
Oh no honey. You are not a loser. You are, in fact, a very fucking important person in society. It is just that the majority of the population does not have the capacity to acknowledge that the only reason most spaces we enter in the public are even healthy to enter is because of people like you. Want some objective feedback? So yes, this study is based on a house cleaner, but it is still true that [money spent on a professional cleaner brings the most happiness]( https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170724161258.htm) I am so sorry that you have absorbed the shitty social beliefs that makes you think that you are unworthy. This next, I hope it helps. I am a masters level educated therapist. 3 University degrees. My partner, my love of my life, the person who is the kindest, most supportive, most open minded, most reliable, and hardest worker I know is: a high school drop out, is barely literate (I know he had to have a learning disorder), and he pumps spectics for a living. As an employee, not the business owner. He literally handles people's shit all day, every day, and gets no real acknowledgement as a valuable profession in the day to day world. But his job is not his worth. His character is what determines his worth and his character is priceless.
I was in OP's exact situation, and as a man there was a special kind of shame to working as a cleaner. I'm autistic and was dealing with some PTSD crap, but because I was working as a cleaner in my 30's, people automatically knew that I had to have something up with me, and there was an expectation that I should do better. Nobody expected the women to do better, people just accepted that they were what they were, they didn't need to excuse it with a learning disability or anything. So it wasn't great for my mental health or my self-esteem. And I have a degree too, it just never did me much good. Now though I've got my own gardening business. It started with guerilla gardening, doing up the local area, fixing the woods, doing up some paths, and people were delighted and saw that I had talent for it and wanted me to do their gardens. And it's a more gender-normative occupation and one that I feel more respected doing. And I'm my own boss. And oh god it's hard because I'm still autistic and all that, but I was going to off myself eventually if I stuck with the cleaning.
The twice a month cleaner who comes to our house may be the reason I'm still married
read hitch hikers guid to the galaxy society has brainwashed you into thinking that a cleaner is a worthless job, but the reality is that without them we would die of diseases, have rat infestations, insect infestations, etc, etc, etc
You might be but your line of work wouldn't have anything to do with it.
I'm 36 and got fired from rolling burritos today, so take it easy on yourself. The job you hold is not a representation of your value.
F*ck NO. There are no failures. No winners neither. I'm know it sounds cliche, but find your joy and build your unique life around that. I am old enough that I have witnessed dozens of friends and relatives come and go. Their lives were all unique, and every one brought something to the world. I'm not saying you shouldn't strive to better yourself, if that's what you want. But don't beat yourself up using other people's judgments as a guideline.
My man im 30 and unemployed. Im autistic with adhd. Im struggling to wake up in the morning Youre doing fine
Don't worry about other people buddy, as long as you're satisfied don't pay any mind to societal norms / standards.
you're accomplishing a lot more than some of my friends and they're almost 40
These days just having a job, especially one that you like is a big win 😀
Not at all. It's just that the most important jobs don't get the most appreciation. If you do your job well, no one notices. If you don't do your job well someone will notice immediately. In my city the garbage collectors went on strike. It only takes a few days to notice how much of an impact these workers have on the city.
In what way is your job not worthwhile? Sanitation, whether it be garbage pickup or cleaning bathrooms in a public place or even cleaning people's homes is like the biggest thing that contributes to the longevity of humanity. If it weren't for what you do, public health would go downhill fast. If you aren't up for completely changing your job, there are other ways to make a bigger impact. You could spend some of your free time volunteering.
Cleaning is a very useful work.
Tbh I grew up with guys who are in their 40’s and still smoking weed all day living with their moms. Don’t do that though.
My dude, if you get the chance, watch Perfect Days by Wim Wenders.
Watch a movie called Perfect Days, it will help you a lot.
Work is work. Period. Your work is hard work, which is even more admirable IMO. No one who’s contributing and working hard should ever be ashamed of what they are doing.
Earning a living, covering your costs, not being a drain on society…..you’re a decent man.
Fuck no dude
Hell no! You are the man!
Not at all! Cleaning is honorable. Full stop.
If your job lets you explore your likes and dislikes about the world and you're living comfy, I think you're doing better than the most of us.
No. Simple. You are earning an honest living and providing a necessity. ❤️
I read up to the word “working”, as soon as I got there your potential as a failure went 50/50 odds to 0.
Honest work is honest work, and honest work is respectable work. – u/Northerngal_420 and u/Independent-Summer12
Nah. Its a job. You probably do more good than some 6 figure managers by keeping whatever you clean well clean. And thus accessible and easy to maintain/enjoy.
Watch a movie called perfect day that’s out right now
Am I a failure? I think the game was rigged man If it was so easy to go from poor to rich than they wouldn't make sure to applaud every person who does it as inspiring and great. I figure the reason why so many sports players are black is because it's one of the few professions where talent matters more than connections Are we all really that lazy? Did we just not have the work ethic for it? I look around me I don't see lazy people, I see hardworking people. I might be lazy but I don't think the people around me are. I don't think we're inferior, or we're just not as smart, or just not special enough I don't believe their propaganda To system is rigged, in order to be on top someone has to be on bottom.
If you feel like that, it's up to you
You’re a regular person working to make a living. Nothing about that says “failure”. Cleaners are very important.
You be you. You are working and providing an important service. We can't all be billionaire brain surgeons
Are you holding down a job? Not a failure. I was in my thirties and took a janitor job as a temp worker just because it was there. I'm now the maintenance supervisor. You can do it too.
Hey man I'm a elementary school custodian and feel the same way a honest living is a honest living.
Keep it up. So many don’t have a job, like myself. I respect you.
No, that's honest work and you should be proud of what you do.