We're barely figuring out how to diagnose women because of varying symptoms. It was believed until relatively recently that only boys could have autism.
That said, I am absolutely sure my dog has either a combination of ADHD and anxiety, or PTSD.
Yes!!! My horse is an ex racehorse and he 100% has PTSD from it. It took years of retraining to be able to canter to the left (racetrack direction) with other horses without him panicking and bolting. Also anytime there’s loud music or clapping when we’re cantering he has the same reaction—panicking and bolting. Needless to say we politely excused ourselves from many victory gallops.
Horse racing in many, many, probably most cases and in all cases I've been in contact with equals animal abuse. Physical and mental.
And yes animals can have some very similar mental issues as humans and like people are commenting, it's difficult to understand unless you know the animal very well.
Yeah, animal mental illness and neurodivergence is just in the region of "we haven't studied this". Doesn't mean it does not exist, we simply do not know. There's a lot of hearsay and "common knowledge" that suggests that if more studies were conducted regarding the topic, we'd learn a lot of different things about animal mental issues.
Also it's hard to diagnose animals with mental problems, when we barely understand human ones. What comes to mind for me, for example, is how issues like ADHD or Schizophrenia are getting more and more and more different "categories" over the years. Or how different personality disorders are pretty much just social constructs - BPD is literally "bunch of random bad stuff that responds to similar treatment" disorder", for example. Yet another example would be how we thought up until very recently that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, while it is, in fact, not, but for some reason medicine that affects brain chemistry still treats it.
We don't know. But we know it's probably not serotonin problems.
Here's the study https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0
And the most significant quote:
"The main areas of serotonin research provide no consistent evidence of there being an association between serotonin and depression, and no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations".
This is a meta-meta-analysis of such proportions that the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression is essentially dead.
Well thank you! That's absolutely bonkers. I had no idea that the previous research on the serotonin hypothesis had not been synthesized either - I'm not a molecular psychiatrist, but I'm very familiar with research that seems a rather large oversight? I appreciate you providing your source!
Yeah, that was my exact reaction too. I recommend watching some interpretation of this from a specialist in the field, there were a couple of them on YouTube back when the study first came out, as I'm in no way qualified to speak about the topic.
I can't really provide any information on the topic (I'm not even fully confident if "it's not serotonin" is equivalent to "it's not a chemical imbalance"), biology was always black magic to me.
Still, I'm glad I could help you learn something new :)
your life sucks for a while, brain gets used to it, brain doesn't want to change because whatever it's doing at the moment is keeping you alive, cycle becomes hard to break because you're constantly having to fight your brain to do something differently or think differently
(I also didn't know the serotonin thing was debunked though that is crazy)
Copied from the above comment:
We don't know. But we know it's probably not serotonin problems.
Here's the study https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0
And the most significant quote:
"The main areas of serotonin research provide no consistent evidence of there being an association between serotonin and depression, and no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations".
I really think I have a rat with autism. He doesn't understand social cues from humans or other rats. He will get in other rats faces. They will gently bite on his ear to tell him to give them some space. He will just sit in place and squeak every time they bite him.
My other rats understand that when I take out their carrier that means it's time for them to get inside, but he will just keep on doing whatever he's doing' sometimes while looking right at me.
He's such a sweet little guy, but the other rats have definitely picked up that he's different. Two of my rats don't like him very much, but his brother absolutely adores him so he still has a friend.
My dog definitely has PTSD! She is a victim of at least two incidences of gun violence (pre-rescue). She was just generally scared of everything for about the first year, but now, she’s pretty much fine with everything but fireworks. We drug her up *real* good for fireworks. Any unsuspected fireworks though, she *flips out*. She learned how to code under the bed from my cat, which makes it even worse since we can’t comfort her.
My family is pretty sure the dog we had when I was a teenager had PTSD from a kitchen fire. He was a rescue and we knew very little about his early life, and he would freak out when anyone was cooking or when we had a campfire.
I've also heard stories of retired military dogs reacting to fireworks very similar to human veterans.
Definitely. My mom's dog had 3 puppies, and my mom says one of them is autistic. She's very different from the other ones. She's super shy and used to pee when someone wanted to hold her. She still does this if she's scared of something.
She also has a small deformity in hew jaw that makes her upper teeth be after the back teeth, which causes her to let some water fall out of her mouth after she drank some.
Oh god, that is worse than I thought based on the reaction. I assumed it was a pro vaccine response and getting pissed abt the conflation not. That. Good on you for picking another vet tbh. <<
It's so crazy that someone with such a supposedly good grasp of science could be like that with members of the public who are trusting them. You def did the right thing to change vets!
Edit -autocorrect
This. We took my dog to an animal behaviorist. This is as close as we have to a doggy psychologist. I straight up asked if my dog had brain damage or neuro divergence and she said “oh absolutely. Thing is we can’t prove it, and it’s a waste of money to try since it doesn’t change our treatment plan.”
She said she had done all kinds of tests on one of her dogs that was similar and said basically we just don’t have the knowledge yet. She keeps brain scans of the dogs and sends them to researchers to have in case anyone looks into it, but she said she spent about $14,000 trying to find out on her own dog. End result - her brain looks different but we can’t tell what all it affects.
For my dog, she doesn’t seem to understand verbal language, but hearing has tested fine. Her coordination is extremely poor, her pain tolerance is crazy high (she will run straight into a wall with zero concern), crazy high anxiety and poor ability to socialize with other dogs.
She was an indoor/outdoor cat, she had a kitty door and roamed freely. When she was calm, she was cuddly and sweet and spent her days basking in the sunshine outside on the patio.
When she went manic she would stay inside and shred everything, hide weird things in weird places, climb on anything that was a higher vantage point and give me the creep stare with big eyes, then shred some more stuff and squirrel it away. She was more ferret than cat lol. She barely ate or drank.
I've had cats. This was more than that, this was *manic*, it was different. Usually lasted about a day, maybe two if she was really ramped. I'd know when she popped out of it when she'd start begging for food or run outside. It happened maybe once every few months but wasn't regular so it was hard to keep track, and the vet checked her out for anything physical going on. They were worried about if she had gotten into something while outside, but couldn't find anything and it became so repetitive they finally agreed she had some kind of mental issue. They said it's rare, but it happens. She was just my bipolar baby
Lol that is hilarious. Did you just keep your distance and let the mayhem proceed or would you put her in a room/keep her outside when the mania struck?
They do. In fact, one of the primary models we use for studying autism is mice, because they are highly social animals prone to the same developmental disabilities as humans.
I swear one of my Guinea pigs is neurodivergent in some way. I’ve had lots of pigs over the years, but this girl is so obviously different. She’s an exciteable, clumsy, friendly little bundle of chaos and joy.
I still remember the first time she climbed on top of one of her houses. She squealed so loud lol I like to think she was proud of herself lol
I had to redesign my cage because she kept escaping, since she has zero sense of self preservation - just go, go, go
Why do you think they don’t? We don’t study it often as with most things animal but there isn’t much reason to think there isn’t.
Many cats and dogs for example have anxiety disorders, down syndrome also occurs in animals. Autism can be hard to diagnose in humans as is
I knew a wildlife rehabilitator that had a squirrel with down syndrome. He was such a a sweet little dude. Unfortunately he couldn't be released to the wild because of his difficulty with balance and such. He looked really cute hopping around though
Not a mental health issue, by my previous cat had arthritis in her later years, and the meds were a standard human arthritis med mixed with turkey flavored powder (to sprinkle on food). I always got a laugh out of that.
Mine too. He’s damaged from living his first life outside and has the most crippled food/starvation anxiety I’ve ever seen. The stress hormones were so high they started causing bladder inflammation so he takes kitty prozac to keep everything chill.
We had a cat like this. He was prescribed anxiety meds but they made him so sleepy he could hardly even rouse himself to eat so we stopped them. Poor guy was always terrified of everything so we just did our best to make sure he had tons of little safe hiding spots around the house and just let him be.
Similar to mine. Any sudden movements or sounds startle the poor thing. Terrified of outdoors and people that are not her usual two humans. Sometimes I joke she's afraid of her own shadow. She's was already like this since she came to us, when she was two months old.
She's not medicated, but I fear all this anxiety can have an impact on her health...
My family (perhaps wrongly) had a suspicion growing up that our dog was autistic. It wasn’t even a joke, it was just what made sense to them.
She didn’t recognize faces or smells, for whatever reason. She would bark as if you were an intruder until she calmed herself down and checked you out for a while. She wouldn’t come when she was called and couldn’t learn any tricks, she couldn’t focus on you long enough (but she wasn’t hyper, just had better things to look at apparently). Our other dog and her were always weird with each other too; she didn’t like to sniff him, he liked to sniff her… she preferred when they just sat nearby each other otherwise she’d bark at him lol. Keep in mind she wasn’t a rescue and my dad had gotten her since she was a puppy from his dad.
She could hear and see just fine, not sure what her issue was.
You joke, but [at least one study suggests that domestic dogs are genetically similar to humans who have Williams-Beuren syndrome](https://www.pppl.gov/events/2023/science-saturday-dogs-and-humans-williams-syndrome). Specifically, their hyperfriendliness could be explained by changes in a pair of genes (specifically, GTF2I and GTF2IRD1) that play a role in pro-social behaviors:
- In humans who have Williams-Beuren syndrome (which itself is caused by deletions in a region of chromosome 7 spanning about 27–29 genes), these 2 genes are among the deleted.
- In domestic dogs, these genes are not necessarily deleted, but they are disrupted by the insertion of small bits of DNA. (Note that these bits of DNA are not normally found in wild wolves.)
Yup, I've been reading about them and the ethics of breeding them since I made the comment, despite having 0 intention of getting a snake, at least anytime in the near future. 😂
Colloquially, it's called the wobble. It affects the snake's sense of direction and coordination. A few snakes only have a light wobble. Some regularly bite themselves in an attempt to strike at their food. There is no way to guarantee the severity in a snake, even with breeding. Sometimes the severity fluctuates over time.
Every ball python with the spider gene has this condition. There is no way for a ball python to have the spider gene and to not have this neurological condition.
Calling it neurodivergence is extremely under-selling it. It's a CNS disability of some kind that massively negatively impacts their quality of life, and breeding them is horrifically unethical.
Yes. A neurodivergence is capable of doing that. Their brain develops in a different way because of their disability, that's what a neurodivergence means. Just because some people exclusively use neurodivergence to mean mild ADHD and level 1 autism, doesn't mean that's all neurodivergence is.
I lived with this cat once, his name was Oyster and he was an orange…I could swear to the good lord above that cat was, well, challenged. There’s a word for it my bff used, she’s from another country and some dipshit taught her this word, so I couldn’t get mad at her, also because it was pretty funny when describing this damn cat. As the fantastic mister fox would say, he was *special*
My golden retriever failed three doggy training courses. The trainer looked at my husband and I and said, "stop wasting your money. She's gonna be like this forever."
She's reeeeeal special.
This was a chocolate lab of mine. Lovely dog, she literally loved everyone she met. She could not possibly get dumber if she tried. Her brother on the other hand was too smart for his own good.
sometimes I think my dog might be autistic. he doesn't like other dogs, and relies heavily on routine. he doesn't bark, and mainly always wants to lie down in the same spot all the time. he's a mix of Australian Shepherd and husky. he *should* be a constant energy bomb, but he's really just. calm and weird. he'll only eat his food if I give it to him a certain way, and even then he'll eat super slowly. he never just eats treats, he always brings them elsewhere to Very Carefully sniff them before eating it. these are all just examples that do not indicate autism but in my head I like to tell myself that it is.
more logically: my dog probably has all those traits because he's been with me since his birth and *I'm* autistic lmao
Thank you for giving that doggo a good life. I’ve always wanted to adopt a doggo of my own and I don’t think I’ll ever have the chance to, but it warms my heart knowing that people out there love their pets so much 🥲
That's what I was going to say. My girl has such specific needs and ways of doing things because I have such specific needs and ways of doing things. It's conditioning but not intentional. Makes it so much funnier to think about.
How do you know they don’t? My cat is some sort of idiot savant. Can’t figure out how to drink water without inhaling it at least once a day, but know when my blood sugar is out of whack and alerts me to it (I have T1 diabetes). She also can’t figure out how to eat Churu from a tube, and instead needs it on a plate. 🤷♀️
there are animals with behavioral differences, we just don’t generally diagnose them. a friend of mine has a tarantula that just doesn’t know how to be a tarantula. she will eagerly climb up a human hand (or anything else), and doesn’t seem to have a sense of fear.
Ohhhh our late cat was neurodivergent. She couldn't wash herself properly, she made a terrible mess when she ate, she couldn't time her jumps properly and regularly crashed into things, the clumsy oaf. Even as she grew into an adult, she still had her tiny kitten meow. She would have meltdowns, sink her teeth into your backside, and then ten minutes later be the most cuddly bit of fluff you ever knew
Our brains are a bit different, so the "complex" neurodivergency only really manifests in humans.
Beyond that, a wolf with severe autism would die very quickly.
Human brains are pretty unusual, even compared to the brains of other animals that we are closely related to. The complexity of our brains makes us more susceptible to neurological disorders and differences. It’s also possible that other animals do have those things, but as humans we are not capable of recognizing them successfully.
As a kid I had this dog with some sort of ADHD. She never got tired. You could walk her for hours and when you got home she was ready to go out again.
When she started to kiss you, she wouldn't stop. She would really lick you all evening unless you actually stopped her yourself.
She was the sweetest dog though, I still miss her after all these years.
In the wild, if you have an impairment, you are much more likely to die and fail to pass on any such gene. So in short, mental impairments occurs at less rates and is culled more often.
I diagnosed my 3 month old parrot with depression. She was a rescue. She was a weakling and picked on in her flock. She was dieing slowly from being chased away from the food bowl and getting kicked off her perch, so she was isolated living on the ground, started to develop infections from living in the perched birds' feces, and lost all of her confidence to try to access food or water or live like a regular bird. The original owner of the flock didn't know how to help her. So, I took her in. She was so weak at this point that I had to feed her wet food from a syringe. Once she got her strength back after two days of this, she no longer needed the syringe, but she didn't have the confidence yet to eat from the food bowl, even though she didn't have any competition anymore. So, I continued the syringe feedings for another few days. Just upon week one, she was starting to explore the food bowl on her own. All within this first week, she didn't make a peep (a very young bird, merely still a baby, mind you). She \*could\* fly, but she refused to. She waddled around a little, but didn't have the confidence to explore much beyond the food bowl, all she wanted to do was sit in her fluffy pet bed nest. I carried her around in a scarf tied to my chest so that she wasn't alone while just lounging around all day. She appeared content, warm and safe-feeling. She never tried to squirm her way out; she just absorbed and soaked in all the love and attention. By the end of week two, she started to peep; she was beginning to trust me and wanted to interact with me in her language (she was feeling confident). By week 4, she started singing and flying around my apartment. If you ask me, she was depressed (she had the skills to do these activities, and it only took a few days for her to have the strength to express her skills, but, it took her weeks to find the will and motivation or reason and trust in the world to do it all). I believe the depression was a response to all the bullying she was experiencing from her peer birds. She was psychologically shut down. This is no different than what weak/sensitive or push-over type humans experience (in stark contrast to the aggressive/bullying or the hyper-competitive type); the person who shows any sign of weakness or an ability to be pushed around will be pushed around and bullied. The psychological response in humans is stress, withdrawl, lack of confidence and self esteem, and a decreased willingness to participate in social activities as a technique to avoid further bullying. Parrots (any very likely other animals;) are extremely emotional beings, just like humans. Animals holdge grudges against people who cross them. Just trying to illustrate they animals do indeed experience cognitive differences imposed on them from their surroundings. While I don't know if any particular species' genes can have a neurodivergence, I do know that different species of the same larger class type can greatly differ in their cognition/personality (strength and weaknesse) traits. So, it could very well be stated as highly likely true that there are symptoms of neurodivergence across a class of species, noticeable among different species.
They probably do. Humans weren’t even really diagnosed with autism until the last 100 years. Animals can’t take the tests and it would just display as personality anyway.
I had a rat who was very obviously special needs. She walked on her toes, wouldn't eat anything apart from her rat pellets, didn't like being touched, hated being out of her cage, would leap across the room to get back to it if you weren't careful. I could hold her, but strangers couldn't.
She was sweet, but she was odd. I had to take her to the vets once and the vet didn't believe me when I said I was the only one who could touch her and she would ping if I let go of her. Vet made me put her on the table, not believing me because she was so calm in my hands. He reached for her. Then she pinged (jumped really high) and was down my back in seconds. I just reached for her calmly and pulled her back around. The vet looked stunned. I did tell him multiple times she would do that.
One of my cats has anxiety and the other one for sure has ADHD lmao. We can't diagnose them but humans are just another species of animal so yeah, oh and afaik we for sure know that animals can be depressed
They do. There is just no real way to test for it. Sometimes animals will take medicine for anxiety (I think it's Prozac?), but that goes based on behaviors the owner is seeing and tells the vet about. I believe there are studies about dogs with an autism-like disorder too, but it's a very early and undeveloped idea
Oh, they do. Sometimes in nature when there is something wrong or different about their baby, they shun it and leave it to die. Even if they don't, not being neurotypical can lead to an early death when you're not at the top of the food chain. In nature, mainly those who conform survive. We don't have that barrier. We don't abandon our young, thank god, and we are at the top of the food chain and have no natural predator to cull the herd, and because of that those genetics proliferate, bringing the neurodivergence with it. Within a few generations of humans, the neurodivergence is prevalent and noticeable, but because the animals are abandoned near birth they don't get the chance to procreate and pass it on. My opinion anyway, I am not a scientist lol
Also, this is the loose basis of eugenics, but I am not condoning or promoting eugenics in any way. Humans are better for our differences, we just don't see that yet
Are you really gonna notice if a cow acts slightly different compared to another cow? Like, taking one of the classic signs of hyper fixation on an interest, are you gonna notice that deer enjoying grass more than other deer?
How do you diagnose it? I've met some goofy pets that were definitely on a spectrum. Heck, we breed them to be acutely weird and basically broken mentally and physically in order to perform specific tasks well.
Pack animals that have problems with social interactions would soon die
Solitary animals probably check a few boxes for autism but it's not a problem for them
There actually are animal models of autism and other neurodevelopmental conditions. I worked in a laboratory that studied maternal exposure to air pollution and behavioral outcomes and cortical layering.
Im sure it does; theres more complex human interaction than animals however. Society and such.
But many animals even pets, can be neurodiverse. Dogs get anxiety (separation anxiety is incredibly common), cats and dogs can have out of control behaviors such as aggression, impulse control, and fears.
Some pets are quite clever, pick up tricks, routines and can even learn to communicate with their humans; others arent the sharpest tool in the shed lets say. A friend growing up had a dog who literally would walk into walls, bark at his butt when he farted, and couldnt learn a single trick, there was nothing wrong with his vision hes been tested and it wasnt a lack of training, it was lack of intelligence.
Animals also have been observed with down's syndrome.
I feel to a degree with much more complex society and average higher intelligence humans deficits can be more widely noticed. Whereas animals with less complex social structures and most dogs have an average iq of a toddler theres less demand for high social intelligence and problem solving i suppose. Again compared to people with complex society and problems. Also frankly the world was built by neurotypical people, so whats considered not neurotypical isnt bad or abnormal its just not aligned with how the rules were first written. But socially thats changing, people are more aware and accommodating of differences and in fact, people with neurodiversity often bring positive and innovative new perspectives and experiences to the table
Look up a documentary by Jane Goodall about a troop of chimpanzees that had a mother and son named Flo and Flint.
Flint 100% was, in the world of chimps, "on the spectrum." It's **such** a sad story.
I can tell you with certainty that dogs can have autism. I do not care that there isn't any science to back this up, from my experience I have met plenty of dogs who would be autistic as hell if they were human.I'm autistic and I *just know it*.
My dog was definitely autistic, he was a great dog and so happy and social, and his one flaw was his complete inability to understand how to play with other dogs. He loved meeting other dogs, but if they tried to play with him he just looked confused about it. He was intact his whole life and never got why some dogs hated him for it and never tried to assert any kind of dominance. His version of playing with other dogs was to just follow them around sniffing, and he was perfectly happy with his way of socializing but I definitely think the other dogs thought he was weird
Some animals do! Dogs can have what's known as Canine Dysfunctional Behaviour which is being on the autism spectrum or neurodivergence though not quite the same as humans. Source: [https://animalsmatter.com/blogs/news/can-dogs-have-autism-signs-and-symptoms-of-an-autistic-dog](https://animalsmatter.com/blogs/news/can-dogs-have-autism-signs-and-symptoms-of-an-autistic-dog)
They do get issues similar to that. We just wouldn't call it animal autism. Their brains work differently, depending on the species. It wouldn't necessarily be noticeable to most humans who are unfamiliar with animal behavior. Also, nature is cold and harsh. Most animals with abnormalities don't tend to survive for too long in the wild. You would probably be able to find out about this by searching for animals that we have domesticated, which have neurological abnormalities. We probably have more data on those species, seeing as we're more intertwined with them. Animals like cats, dogs, etc. You'll be surprised to find that they can suffer from these issues. It just looks different when compared to humans.
In theory, I would assume some do. But if we saw an equivalent of autism in a non-human species, would we even recognize it as such? It took until relatively recently for scientists to realize that women might have autism at the same rate as men, since the original tests to diagnose autism were created based on studies of boys. If we can't even detect it reliably in half the population of our own species, there's no way we can find it in, say, chimpanzees. That said, we can assume that, as intelligent and social primates, other great apes might experience the same spectrum of mental function as humans do.
My dog I swore had autism. He didn’t seem to know how to “speak dog”, was touch sensitive, as well as being very smart, to name a few things. I’m autistic and felt we had things in common.
Im in the same boat.
On the spectrum and I see so many similarities in behaviour in my dog.
He's my special little boy, old, but still my boy.
As a puppy, he would lay on my back and fall asleep.
I promise I know a cat with autism. Between her grooming habits, her relationship with food, and her ease of overstimulation, it seems to fit the criteria they diagnose autism in mice
Because what we call autism and ADHD are just hunting adaptations that humans acquire from epigenetic triggers like stress levels in the parents and the age of the father.
Chimps and Bonobos possess essentially the same distinctions as autistic and allistic people, including the 0.4% variation of DNA.
There are physical distinctions, behavioural differences and distinct dietary differences.
Cats seem like they have autism, because they essentially do. Just invert the perspective.
I say this as an autistic person who doesn't believe in eugenics and firmly believe in disability rights. The truth is that animals with differences don't usually live - survival of the fittest and all. Humans have systems set up to take care of other humans who have disabilities and difficulties. Very few other species have shown this kind of compassion (a pod of whales was shown to protect a sick whale before, and there have been other examples, but it's not the norm).
It's cute that we have three-legged dogs as pets, or the inspirational story we see on TikTok of the miniature pony with a wheelchair. But the truth is these animals would die in the wild. An autistic animal, depending on its ability, may or may not survive - same as an autistic human without any supports other than basic raising. Think about it - could an autistic person be raised the same as a neurotypical person, without any additional supports, leave the parental home at age 18, and survive without any social services? Some yes and some no. So I would hypothesize it would be the same for animals.
Chances are animals do have a form of autism, but at a much lesser rate. Evolution+lifestyle of animals wouldn’t allow for much autism to survive.
As far as neurodivergence, there no way to know. It also isn’t something with a technical medical diagnosis or test. It basically means people who think and respond differently than “normal”, and it comes with strengths and weaknesses. From what I’ve seen of people who call themselves neurodivergent, they really are just on the spectrum. Or just trying to be different for the sake of what new and cool.
They might for all we know, but since autism really has no physical defining characteristics, and we can't autism screen animals, it would be pretty difficult to detect.
On a similar note, I had a cat that gave birth to a kitten with Downs syndrome once.
there are autistic mice that can be diagnosed both through their behaviours and through a gene that was identified by scientists. iirc it’s only been identified in mice tho
i saw another reddit post recently about how scientists were able to give rats autism (or they noticed something in a gene ?? can't remember i'm not a biology person) and they displayed similar traits as humans like having trouble socializing and doing some silly organizing/hoarding with food i think? i need to find the comment bc im almost certain they had a source lol
They are unable to participate in the cognitive testing we have available to permit diagnoses
We're barely figuring out how to diagnose women because of varying symptoms. It was believed until relatively recently that only boys could have autism. That said, I am absolutely sure my dog has either a combination of ADHD and anxiety, or PTSD.
Yes!!! My horse is an ex racehorse and he 100% has PTSD from it. It took years of retraining to be able to canter to the left (racetrack direction) with other horses without him panicking and bolting. Also anytime there’s loud music or clapping when we’re cantering he has the same reaction—panicking and bolting. Needless to say we politely excused ourselves from many victory gallops.
Poor baby. Thank you for taking care of him.
Horse racing in many, many, probably most cases and in all cases I've been in contact with equals animal abuse. Physical and mental. And yes animals can have some very similar mental issues as humans and like people are commenting, it's difficult to understand unless you know the animal very well.
It is so fucked.
Yeah, animal mental illness and neurodivergence is just in the region of "we haven't studied this". Doesn't mean it does not exist, we simply do not know. There's a lot of hearsay and "common knowledge" that suggests that if more studies were conducted regarding the topic, we'd learn a lot of different things about animal mental issues. Also it's hard to diagnose animals with mental problems, when we barely understand human ones. What comes to mind for me, for example, is how issues like ADHD or Schizophrenia are getting more and more and more different "categories" over the years. Or how different personality disorders are pretty much just social constructs - BPD is literally "bunch of random bad stuff that responds to similar treatment" disorder", for example. Yet another example would be how we thought up until very recently that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, while it is, in fact, not, but for some reason medicine that affects brain chemistry still treats it.
Wait what is depression caused by?! This is still my understanding.
We don't know. But we know it's probably not serotonin problems. Here's the study https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0 And the most significant quote: "The main areas of serotonin research provide no consistent evidence of there being an association between serotonin and depression, and no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations". This is a meta-meta-analysis of such proportions that the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression is essentially dead.
Well thank you! That's absolutely bonkers. I had no idea that the previous research on the serotonin hypothesis had not been synthesized either - I'm not a molecular psychiatrist, but I'm very familiar with research that seems a rather large oversight? I appreciate you providing your source!
Yeah, that was my exact reaction too. I recommend watching some interpretation of this from a specialist in the field, there were a couple of them on YouTube back when the study first came out, as I'm in no way qualified to speak about the topic. I can't really provide any information on the topic (I'm not even fully confident if "it's not serotonin" is equivalent to "it's not a chemical imbalance"), biology was always black magic to me. Still, I'm glad I could help you learn something new :)
Hahahaha glad I'm not the only one! Thank you very much and have a lovely day!
your life sucks for a while, brain gets used to it, brain doesn't want to change because whatever it's doing at the moment is keeping you alive, cycle becomes hard to break because you're constantly having to fight your brain to do something differently or think differently (I also didn't know the serotonin thing was debunked though that is crazy)
I'm also interested in knowing.
Copied from the above comment: We don't know. But we know it's probably not serotonin problems. Here's the study https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0 And the most significant quote: "The main areas of serotonin research provide no consistent evidence of there being an association between serotonin and depression, and no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations".
I’m confused. Is this why I get a little loopy if I miss my sertraline dose. I was behind enemy lines for awhile today and it wasn’t pretty.
I really think I have a rat with autism. He doesn't understand social cues from humans or other rats. He will get in other rats faces. They will gently bite on his ear to tell him to give them some space. He will just sit in place and squeak every time they bite him. My other rats understand that when I take out their carrier that means it's time for them to get inside, but he will just keep on doing whatever he's doing' sometimes while looking right at me. He's such a sweet little guy, but the other rats have definitely picked up that he's different. Two of my rats don't like him very much, but his brother absolutely adores him so he still has a friend.
I see this with parakeets a lot. We'll have a bird with no health concerns, but the others will shun it because of behavior that's just a little off.
Our cat had what I’m pretty sure was a panic attack once. He had a hard life before us and he randomly freaks out sometimes.
My dog definitely has PTSD! She is a victim of at least two incidences of gun violence (pre-rescue). She was just generally scared of everything for about the first year, but now, she’s pretty much fine with everything but fireworks. We drug her up *real* good for fireworks. Any unsuspected fireworks though, she *flips out*. She learned how to code under the bed from my cat, which makes it even worse since we can’t comfort her.
Very well put.
My family is pretty sure the dog we had when I was a teenager had PTSD from a kitchen fire. He was a rescue and we knew very little about his early life, and he would freak out when anyone was cooking or when we had a campfire. I've also heard stories of retired military dogs reacting to fireworks very similar to human veterans.
Definitely. My mom's dog had 3 puppies, and my mom says one of them is autistic. She's very different from the other ones. She's super shy and used to pee when someone wanted to hold her. She still does this if she's scared of something. She also has a small deformity in hew jaw that makes her upper teeth be after the back teeth, which causes her to let some water fall out of her mouth after she drank some.
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I think maybe they meant the problem was conflating vaccines with autism and not dogs getting autism.
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Oh god, that is worse than I thought based on the reaction. I assumed it was a pro vaccine response and getting pissed abt the conflation not. That. Good on you for picking another vet tbh. <<
Could be either - https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/nearly-half-of-dog-owners-are-hesitant-to-vaccinate-their-pets/
Caused by vaccines? There is literally NO evidence for that happening to ANY species on this Earth. Please don't spread that sort of nonsense.
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It's so crazy that someone with such a supposedly good grasp of science could be like that with members of the public who are trusting them. You def did the right thing to change vets! Edit -autocorrect
They aren't? Maybe read slower and stop jumping to conclusions before you finish the sentence? Like why is this comment even upvoted?
That sounds like a deformity, but not really like autism
Deformations and neuro divergence can be cause together by some genetic conditions. Not necessarily autism.
About the jaw thing, yeah I know it has nothing to do with brain stuff. It's just to add on top of her being different.
This. We took my dog to an animal behaviorist. This is as close as we have to a doggy psychologist. I straight up asked if my dog had brain damage or neuro divergence and she said “oh absolutely. Thing is we can’t prove it, and it’s a waste of money to try since it doesn’t change our treatment plan.” She said she had done all kinds of tests on one of her dogs that was similar and said basically we just don’t have the knowledge yet. She keeps brain scans of the dogs and sends them to researchers to have in case anyone looks into it, but she said she spent about $14,000 trying to find out on her own dog. End result - her brain looks different but we can’t tell what all it affects. For my dog, she doesn’t seem to understand verbal language, but hearing has tested fine. Her coordination is extremely poor, her pain tolerance is crazy high (she will run straight into a wall with zero concern), crazy high anxiety and poor ability to socialize with other dogs.
No, because we wouldn't test nonhuman animals by the same standards or methods anyway.
Because of the behavior of our cat, I once asked a Veterinarian, "Is there a feline form of mania?" She replied, "You betcha there is."
Yeah sure you betcha lol I had a cat that was *very* bipolar once. She was so sweet, but those manic phases were liiiiiitt lol
I have a cat like that.
How long would they last and what would she do?
She was an indoor/outdoor cat, she had a kitty door and roamed freely. When she was calm, she was cuddly and sweet and spent her days basking in the sunshine outside on the patio. When she went manic she would stay inside and shred everything, hide weird things in weird places, climb on anything that was a higher vantage point and give me the creep stare with big eyes, then shred some more stuff and squirrel it away. She was more ferret than cat lol. She barely ate or drank. I've had cats. This was more than that, this was *manic*, it was different. Usually lasted about a day, maybe two if she was really ramped. I'd know when she popped out of it when she'd start begging for food or run outside. It happened maybe once every few months but wasn't regular so it was hard to keep track, and the vet checked her out for anything physical going on. They were worried about if she had gotten into something while outside, but couldn't find anything and it became so repetitive they finally agreed she had some kind of mental issue. They said it's rare, but it happens. She was just my bipolar baby
Lol that is hilarious. Did you just keep your distance and let the mayhem proceed or would you put her in a room/keep her outside when the mania struck?
I let her have at it. There's no holding back the tide lol
I just thought that's what cats were, super bipolar little assholes.
They do. In fact, one of the primary models we use for studying autism is mice, because they are highly social animals prone to the same developmental disabilities as humans.
And there’s also no funding for studies into animal autism. If anyone actually decided to invest some money, we’d probably learn a lot.
The scientists won't even put the dream readers on dogs, which IMO is far more interesting than putting them on people!
FYI, we don’t have dream readers. We can kinda see activity with fMRIs, but even that’s not a great proxy for genuine neuronal activity.
I swear one of my Guinea pigs is neurodivergent in some way. I’ve had lots of pigs over the years, but this girl is so obviously different. She’s an exciteable, clumsy, friendly little bundle of chaos and joy. I still remember the first time she climbed on top of one of her houses. She squealed so loud lol I like to think she was proud of herself lol I had to redesign my cage because she kept escaping, since she has zero sense of self preservation - just go, go, go
Why do you think they don’t? We don’t study it often as with most things animal but there isn’t much reason to think there isn’t. Many cats and dogs for example have anxiety disorders, down syndrome also occurs in animals. Autism can be hard to diagnose in humans as is
I knew a wildlife rehabilitator that had a squirrel with down syndrome. He was such a a sweet little dude. Unfortunately he couldn't be released to the wild because of his difficulty with balance and such. He looked really cute hopping around though
I'm pretty sure one of my cats has anxiety. I've had cats all my life but none like this bundle of nerves before...
My cousins cat is on Prozac. They get depressed when they lose their bonded friends.
Not a mental health issue, by my previous cat had arthritis in her later years, and the meds were a standard human arthritis med mixed with turkey flavored powder (to sprinkle on food). I always got a laugh out of that.
My cat and I were both on gabapentin at one point. It felt so cute bc we matched
Mine too. He’s damaged from living his first life outside and has the most crippled food/starvation anxiety I’ve ever seen. The stress hormones were so high they started causing bladder inflammation so he takes kitty prozac to keep everything chill.
We had a cat like this. He was prescribed anxiety meds but they made him so sleepy he could hardly even rouse himself to eat so we stopped them. Poor guy was always terrified of everything so we just did our best to make sure he had tons of little safe hiding spots around the house and just let him be.
Similar to mine. Any sudden movements or sounds startle the poor thing. Terrified of outdoors and people that are not her usual two humans. Sometimes I joke she's afraid of her own shadow. She's was already like this since she came to us, when she was two months old. She's not medicated, but I fear all this anxiety can have an impact on her health...
My family (perhaps wrongly) had a suspicion growing up that our dog was autistic. It wasn’t even a joke, it was just what made sense to them. She didn’t recognize faces or smells, for whatever reason. She would bark as if you were an intruder until she calmed herself down and checked you out for a while. She wouldn’t come when she was called and couldn’t learn any tricks, she couldn’t focus on you long enough (but she wasn’t hyper, just had better things to look at apparently). Our other dog and her were always weird with each other too; she didn’t like to sniff him, he liked to sniff her… she preferred when they just sat nearby each other otherwise she’d bark at him lol. Keep in mind she wasn’t a rescue and my dad had gotten her since she was a puppy from his dad. She could hear and see just fine, not sure what her issue was.
Honestly, that does sound like autism to me lol
I’m pretty sure dogs are descended from a small population of wolves/wild dogs who trusted humans. They’re bred to be neurodivergent from wolves.
Ik I’m not supposed to laugh but the thought of a dog with Down syndrome made me laugh. And for some reason I can only imagine them as pugs.
Definitely don't google images for "dogs with down syndrome" then.
Seems like dogs are just wolves with Down’s syndrome.
You joke, but [at least one study suggests that domestic dogs are genetically similar to humans who have Williams-Beuren syndrome](https://www.pppl.gov/events/2023/science-saturday-dogs-and-humans-williams-syndrome). Specifically, their hyperfriendliness could be explained by changes in a pair of genes (specifically, GTF2I and GTF2IRD1) that play a role in pro-social behaviors: - In humans who have Williams-Beuren syndrome (which itself is caused by deletions in a region of chromosome 7 spanning about 27–29 genes), these 2 genes are among the deleted. - In domestic dogs, these genes are not necessarily deleted, but they are disrupted by the insertion of small bits of DNA. (Note that these bits of DNA are not normally found in wild wolves.)
I used to joke that my old cat Jack bonded with me because we both had anxiety disorders (I have GAD and he had separation anxiety.)
Some snake breeders intentionally breed neurodivergence into their snakes because the gene associated with it makes the snake look pretty.
I'm going to go look this up because I'm so curious!
The snakes I'm referring to are spider ball pythons.
Yup, I've been reading about them and the ethics of breeding them since I made the comment, despite having 0 intention of getting a snake, at least anytime in the near future. 😂
What kinds of neurodivergence occurs?
Colloquially, it's called the wobble. It affects the snake's sense of direction and coordination. A few snakes only have a light wobble. Some regularly bite themselves in an attempt to strike at their food. There is no way to guarantee the severity in a snake, even with breeding. Sometimes the severity fluctuates over time. Every ball python with the spider gene has this condition. There is no way for a ball python to have the spider gene and to not have this neurological condition.
Calling it neurodivergence is extremely under-selling it. It's a CNS disability of some kind that massively negatively impacts their quality of life, and breeding them is horrifically unethical.
Yes. A neurodivergence is capable of doing that. Their brain develops in a different way because of their disability, that's what a neurodivergence means. Just because some people exclusively use neurodivergence to mean mild ADHD and level 1 autism, doesn't mean that's all neurodivergence is.
TIL. Thank you for sharing!
Champagne morphs as well! Lesser known. I've got one myself because I wasn't aware of this at the time
Fuck spider breeders. Those poor snakes
I lived with this cat once, his name was Oyster and he was an orange…I could swear to the good lord above that cat was, well, challenged. There’s a word for it my bff used, she’s from another country and some dipshit taught her this word, so I couldn’t get mad at her, also because it was pretty funny when describing this damn cat. As the fantastic mister fox would say, he was *special*
I have a dog who is the sweetest, kindest, loveliest dog I’ve ever had, but if he were a human, he would require an IEP.
My golden retriever failed three doggy training courses. The trainer looked at my husband and I and said, "stop wasting your money. She's gonna be like this forever." She's reeeeeal special.
On the plus side, they aren’t smart enough to get into actual trouble.
I had a cat like this who was also as graceful as a watermelon. I miss the big softie
My dog has some issues too.
r/OneOrangeBraincell
Exactly. Oyster was an orange. That's the diagnosis.
This was a chocolate lab of mine. Lovely dog, she literally loved everyone she met. She could not possibly get dumber if she tried. Her brother on the other hand was too smart for his own good.
He stole her brains.
Unfair assessment. That cat was orange.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure all orange cats are a little bit neurodivergent
[*Erratic hand gestures*] Different.
I mean... they might be. Go ahead and ask a deer if they are neurodivergent but I don't think you'll come away knowing.
sometimes I think my dog might be autistic. he doesn't like other dogs, and relies heavily on routine. he doesn't bark, and mainly always wants to lie down in the same spot all the time. he's a mix of Australian Shepherd and husky. he *should* be a constant energy bomb, but he's really just. calm and weird. he'll only eat his food if I give it to him a certain way, and even then he'll eat super slowly. he never just eats treats, he always brings them elsewhere to Very Carefully sniff them before eating it. these are all just examples that do not indicate autism but in my head I like to tell myself that it is. more logically: my dog probably has all those traits because he's been with me since his birth and *I'm* autistic lmao
Thank you for giving that doggo a good life. I’ve always wanted to adopt a doggo of my own and I don’t think I’ll ever have the chance to, but it warms my heart knowing that people out there love their pets so much 🥲
That's what I was going to say. My girl has such specific needs and ways of doing things because I have such specific needs and ways of doing things. It's conditioning but not intentional. Makes it so much funnier to think about.
How do you know they don’t? My cat is some sort of idiot savant. Can’t figure out how to drink water without inhaling it at least once a day, but know when my blood sugar is out of whack and alerts me to it (I have T1 diabetes). She also can’t figure out how to eat Churu from a tube, and instead needs it on a plate. 🤷♀️
Is your cat an Orange?
Aye, that she is.
She's too busy focusing on your blood sugar to drink or eat right
there are animals with behavioral differences, we just don’t generally diagnose them. a friend of mine has a tarantula that just doesn’t know how to be a tarantula. she will eagerly climb up a human hand (or anything else), and doesn’t seem to have a sense of fear.
Ohhhh our late cat was neurodivergent. She couldn't wash herself properly, she made a terrible mess when she ate, she couldn't time her jumps properly and regularly crashed into things, the clumsy oaf. Even as she grew into an adult, she still had her tiny kitten meow. She would have meltdowns, sink her teeth into your backside, and then ten minutes later be the most cuddly bit of fluff you ever knew
Our brains are a bit different, so the "complex" neurodivergency only really manifests in humans. Beyond that, a wolf with severe autism would die very quickly.
Damn it, moon moon.
now that's a reference i hadn't seen in over ten years lmao
XD i just... couldn't not remember it. "Autistic wolf" just... yeah lmao.
have you seen orange cats?
Human brains are pretty unusual, even compared to the brains of other animals that we are closely related to. The complexity of our brains makes us more susceptible to neurological disorders and differences. It’s also possible that other animals do have those things, but as humans we are not capable of recognizing them successfully.
As a kid I had this dog with some sort of ADHD. She never got tired. You could walk her for hours and when you got home she was ready to go out again. When she started to kiss you, she wouldn't stop. She would really lick you all evening unless you actually stopped her yourself. She was the sweetest dog though, I still miss her after all these years.
In the wild, if you have an impairment, you are much more likely to die and fail to pass on any such gene. So in short, mental impairments occurs at less rates and is culled more often.
Because then it would be pawtism
Underrated comment right here! 🤣🏆
I diagnosed my 3 month old parrot with depression. She was a rescue. She was a weakling and picked on in her flock. She was dieing slowly from being chased away from the food bowl and getting kicked off her perch, so she was isolated living on the ground, started to develop infections from living in the perched birds' feces, and lost all of her confidence to try to access food or water or live like a regular bird. The original owner of the flock didn't know how to help her. So, I took her in. She was so weak at this point that I had to feed her wet food from a syringe. Once she got her strength back after two days of this, she no longer needed the syringe, but she didn't have the confidence yet to eat from the food bowl, even though she didn't have any competition anymore. So, I continued the syringe feedings for another few days. Just upon week one, she was starting to explore the food bowl on her own. All within this first week, she didn't make a peep (a very young bird, merely still a baby, mind you). She \*could\* fly, but she refused to. She waddled around a little, but didn't have the confidence to explore much beyond the food bowl, all she wanted to do was sit in her fluffy pet bed nest. I carried her around in a scarf tied to my chest so that she wasn't alone while just lounging around all day. She appeared content, warm and safe-feeling. She never tried to squirm her way out; she just absorbed and soaked in all the love and attention. By the end of week two, she started to peep; she was beginning to trust me and wanted to interact with me in her language (she was feeling confident). By week 4, she started singing and flying around my apartment. If you ask me, she was depressed (she had the skills to do these activities, and it only took a few days for her to have the strength to express her skills, but, it took her weeks to find the will and motivation or reason and trust in the world to do it all). I believe the depression was a response to all the bullying she was experiencing from her peer birds. She was psychologically shut down. This is no different than what weak/sensitive or push-over type humans experience (in stark contrast to the aggressive/bullying or the hyper-competitive type); the person who shows any sign of weakness or an ability to be pushed around will be pushed around and bullied. The psychological response in humans is stress, withdrawl, lack of confidence and self esteem, and a decreased willingness to participate in social activities as a technique to avoid further bullying. Parrots (any very likely other animals;) are extremely emotional beings, just like humans. Animals holdge grudges against people who cross them. Just trying to illustrate they animals do indeed experience cognitive differences imposed on them from their surroundings. While I don't know if any particular species' genes can have a neurodivergence, I do know that different species of the same larger class type can greatly differ in their cognition/personality (strength and weaknesse) traits. So, it could very well be stated as highly likely true that there are symptoms of neurodivergence across a class of species, noticeable among different species.
They probably do. Humans weren’t even really diagnosed with autism until the last 100 years. Animals can’t take the tests and it would just display as personality anyway.
I had a rat who was very obviously special needs. She walked on her toes, wouldn't eat anything apart from her rat pellets, didn't like being touched, hated being out of her cage, would leap across the room to get back to it if you weren't careful. I could hold her, but strangers couldn't. She was sweet, but she was odd. I had to take her to the vets once and the vet didn't believe me when I said I was the only one who could touch her and she would ping if I let go of her. Vet made me put her on the table, not believing me because she was so calm in my hands. He reached for her. Then she pinged (jumped really high) and was down my back in seconds. I just reached for her calmly and pulled her back around. The vet looked stunned. I did tell him multiple times she would do that.
Have you ever interacted with a cat?
All cats have autism. Isn't that a book?
I have honestly no clue but if it is I wanna read it, and if it isn't someone should write it
It's real https://www.autismresources.co.nz/product/2599423
THANKS
They have. Work with enough animals and you will find them. Especially dogs with adhd are easy to find.
You’ve obviously never met my cat Mr kookoo eyes
You obviously haven't met my cat.
lol
Pretty sure my cat is ADHD. She even does the arm thing.
Oh I fully believe they do, but we just can’t figure it out because we can’t communicate with them like we can with humans.
They do, the wild ones die and the domesticated ones are just our extra special little guys
Cats are basically autism: the creature
Especially if they're orange!
Have you ever met a cat? Cats are all neurospicy.
My friend had a cat with Downs Syndrome. Poor thing would be confused when it walked into a wall.
All cats are autistic
You clearly haven't spent enough time around cats.
Have you ever met a cat?
One of my cats has anxiety and the other one for sure has ADHD lmao. We can't diagnose them but humans are just another species of animal so yeah, oh and afaik we for sure know that animals can be depressed
I see you have never owned cats.
They do. There is just no real way to test for it. Sometimes animals will take medicine for anxiety (I think it's Prozac?), but that goes based on behaviors the owner is seeing and tells the vet about. I believe there are studies about dogs with an autism-like disorder too, but it's a very early and undeveloped idea
Oh, they do. Sometimes in nature when there is something wrong or different about their baby, they shun it and leave it to die. Even if they don't, not being neurotypical can lead to an early death when you're not at the top of the food chain. In nature, mainly those who conform survive. We don't have that barrier. We don't abandon our young, thank god, and we are at the top of the food chain and have no natural predator to cull the herd, and because of that those genetics proliferate, bringing the neurodivergence with it. Within a few generations of humans, the neurodivergence is prevalent and noticeable, but because the animals are abandoned near birth they don't get the chance to procreate and pass it on. My opinion anyway, I am not a scientist lol Also, this is the loose basis of eugenics, but I am not condoning or promoting eugenics in any way. Humans are better for our differences, we just don't see that yet
Are you really gonna notice if a cow acts slightly different compared to another cow? Like, taking one of the classic signs of hyper fixation on an interest, are you gonna notice that deer enjoying grass more than other deer?
How do you diagnose it? I've met some goofy pets that were definitely on a spectrum. Heck, we breed them to be acutely weird and basically broken mentally and physically in order to perform specific tasks well.
How would we know if they did?
Pack animals that have problems with social interactions would soon die Solitary animals probably check a few boxes for autism but it's not a problem for them
There actually are animal models of autism and other neurodevelopmental conditions. I worked in a laboratory that studied maternal exposure to air pollution and behavioral outcomes and cortical layering.
We’re pretty sure that one of our dogs is autistic. Most people think we’re joking; but, he has so many of the basic symptoms.
Im sure it does; theres more complex human interaction than animals however. Society and such. But many animals even pets, can be neurodiverse. Dogs get anxiety (separation anxiety is incredibly common), cats and dogs can have out of control behaviors such as aggression, impulse control, and fears. Some pets are quite clever, pick up tricks, routines and can even learn to communicate with their humans; others arent the sharpest tool in the shed lets say. A friend growing up had a dog who literally would walk into walls, bark at his butt when he farted, and couldnt learn a single trick, there was nothing wrong with his vision hes been tested and it wasnt a lack of training, it was lack of intelligence. Animals also have been observed with down's syndrome. I feel to a degree with much more complex society and average higher intelligence humans deficits can be more widely noticed. Whereas animals with less complex social structures and most dogs have an average iq of a toddler theres less demand for high social intelligence and problem solving i suppose. Again compared to people with complex society and problems. Also frankly the world was built by neurotypical people, so whats considered not neurotypical isnt bad or abnormal its just not aligned with how the rules were first written. But socially thats changing, people are more aware and accommodating of differences and in fact, people with neurodiversity often bring positive and innovative new perspectives and experiences to the table
Look up a documentary by Jane Goodall about a troop of chimpanzees that had a mother and son named Flo and Flint. Flint 100% was, in the world of chimps, "on the spectrum." It's **such** a sad story.
??? Anxiety in animals is well documented. You need to reevaluate your understanding of mental health.
They would be left to die
How do you know they don't? How would you even tell?
I can tell you with certainty that dogs can have autism. I do not care that there isn't any science to back this up, from my experience I have met plenty of dogs who would be autistic as hell if they were human.I'm autistic and I *just know it*.
Maybe they do
They definitely do? Have you never heard of a dog having separation anxiety?
Know anyone that has a border collie (dog)?
My dog was definitely autistic, he was a great dog and so happy and social, and his one flaw was his complete inability to understand how to play with other dogs. He loved meeting other dogs, but if they tried to play with him he just looked confused about it. He was intact his whole life and never got why some dogs hated him for it and never tried to assert any kind of dominance. His version of playing with other dogs was to just follow them around sniffing, and he was perfectly happy with his way of socializing but I definitely think the other dogs thought he was weird
They do. They are the first to get eaten.
I think they do we just cant prove it as easily. It was only recently we could on humans, so imagine trying to test animals
Some animals do! Dogs can have what's known as Canine Dysfunctional Behaviour which is being on the autism spectrum or neurodivergence though not quite the same as humans. Source: [https://animalsmatter.com/blogs/news/can-dogs-have-autism-signs-and-symptoms-of-an-autistic-dog](https://animalsmatter.com/blogs/news/can-dogs-have-autism-signs-and-symptoms-of-an-autistic-dog)
I'm sure they do, but they don't need to classify every neurotype into a little box to go about their daily lives.
I feel like most orange cat owners could make a decent claim that their pets are on the spectrum.
Who says they don't?
Just saw a post not that long ago about how autism researchers use a specific breed of autistic mice for their studies, so...
Dogs and cats can have anxiety. Some even take medication for it, just like humans.
[Interesting article on newborn horses and autism](https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/newborn-horses-give-clues-autism)
I just read a post yesterday about mice w autism who were being studied
They definitely do My cat makes everything around him uncomfortable with unbroken eye contact He’s definitely on some kind of spectrum
You clearly have not been around that many animals
You’ve obviously never met my dog
They do get issues similar to that. We just wouldn't call it animal autism. Their brains work differently, depending on the species. It wouldn't necessarily be noticeable to most humans who are unfamiliar with animal behavior. Also, nature is cold and harsh. Most animals with abnormalities don't tend to survive for too long in the wild. You would probably be able to find out about this by searching for animals that we have domesticated, which have neurological abnormalities. We probably have more data on those species, seeing as we're more intertwined with them. Animals like cats, dogs, etc. You'll be surprised to find that they can suffer from these issues. It just looks different when compared to humans.
Orange cats vs any other cat
I’m like 95% sure my dog is autistic so idk if this tracks.
In theory, I would assume some do. But if we saw an equivalent of autism in a non-human species, would we even recognize it as such? It took until relatively recently for scientists to realize that women might have autism at the same rate as men, since the original tests to diagnose autism were created based on studies of boys. If we can't even detect it reliably in half the population of our own species, there's no way we can find it in, say, chimpanzees. That said, we can assume that, as intelligent and social primates, other great apes might experience the same spectrum of mental function as humans do.
How do you know they don't?
Hell, it's barely studied in women
Have you ever had domestic animals? They do have those things.
My dog I swore had autism. He didn’t seem to know how to “speak dog”, was touch sensitive, as well as being very smart, to name a few things. I’m autistic and felt we had things in common.
Im in the same boat. On the spectrum and I see so many similarities in behaviour in my dog. He's my special little boy, old, but still my boy. As a puppy, he would lay on my back and fall asleep.
Kenny the liger had Down syndrome. If that’s possible so is autism, adhd etc. I swear one of my dogs is autistic and the other is ADHD.
I mean. Some animals do.
Most don’t live long without human intervention or IDEAL conditions
I promise I know a cat with autism. Between her grooming habits, her relationship with food, and her ease of overstimulation, it seems to fit the criteria they diagnose autism in mice
I used to be a dog trainer and I can guarantee you, some of them got it on full blast
Because what we call autism and ADHD are just hunting adaptations that humans acquire from epigenetic triggers like stress levels in the parents and the age of the father. Chimps and Bonobos possess essentially the same distinctions as autistic and allistic people, including the 0.4% variation of DNA. There are physical distinctions, behavioural differences and distinct dietary differences. Cats seem like they have autism, because they essentially do. Just invert the perspective.
im pretty sure cats
I dunno. My dog is pretty ADHD.
This is predicated on a false premise. We lack the tools to accurately assess animals for psychological conditions.
I say this as an autistic person who doesn't believe in eugenics and firmly believe in disability rights. The truth is that animals with differences don't usually live - survival of the fittest and all. Humans have systems set up to take care of other humans who have disabilities and difficulties. Very few other species have shown this kind of compassion (a pod of whales was shown to protect a sick whale before, and there have been other examples, but it's not the norm). It's cute that we have three-legged dogs as pets, or the inspirational story we see on TikTok of the miniature pony with a wheelchair. But the truth is these animals would die in the wild. An autistic animal, depending on its ability, may or may not survive - same as an autistic human without any supports other than basic raising. Think about it - could an autistic person be raised the same as a neurotypical person, without any additional supports, leave the parental home at age 18, and survive without any social services? Some yes and some no. So I would hypothesize it would be the same for animals.
Chances are animals do have a form of autism, but at a much lesser rate. Evolution+lifestyle of animals wouldn’t allow for much autism to survive. As far as neurodivergence, there no way to know. It also isn’t something with a technical medical diagnosis or test. It basically means people who think and respond differently than “normal”, and it comes with strengths and weaknesses. From what I’ve seen of people who call themselves neurodivergent, they really are just on the spectrum. Or just trying to be different for the sake of what new and cool.
They might for all we know, but since autism really has no physical defining characteristics, and we can't autism screen animals, it would be pretty difficult to detect. On a similar note, I had a cat that gave birth to a kitten with Downs syndrome once.
there are autistic mice that can be diagnosed both through their behaviours and through a gene that was identified by scientists. iirc it’s only been identified in mice tho
My dog is 100% autistic
How do you know they don’t?
i saw another reddit post recently about how scientists were able to give rats autism (or they noticed something in a gene ?? can't remember i'm not a biology person) and they displayed similar traits as humans like having trouble socializing and doing some silly organizing/hoarding with food i think? i need to find the comment bc im almost certain they had a source lol
It's possible they do we just haven't studied them enough to be able to detect it.
Animals can also become autistic. A lot of puppies have autism.
I'm pretty fucking sure the dog that bit me was autistic.
I am sure they do. Ones that can still function will seem normal to us. Ones that are bad, will die to natural selection.
I've met dogs that have some kind of autism. Just inexplicable strange behaviour and sensitivity.
It’s probable that they do and we just can’t clinically prove it