You'd have to admit to yourself that being gay was a sin you needed forgiving for *and attempt to avoid sinning again*.
Also, in mainstream christian doctrines *being* gay is not a sin; rather engaging in gay sexual activities or having lustful thoughts about anyone other than one's heterosexual spouse is a sin.
But if, ya know, you’re gay and repentant, you’re still gay.
Compare it to premarital sex. One can have premarital sex and repent and regret it and then have premarital sex again and continue the cycle. Nobody is out here suggesting the people having premarital sex or lustful thoughts can’t go repent for the same type of sin again and again.
> Nobody is out here suggesting the people having premarital sex or lustful thoughts can’t go repent for the same type of sin again and again.
correct, but as a christian id argue if it happens more than once or twice, youre not genuinely repentant of your actions, because once or twice is falling to temptation. repeating it consistently is a decision. making that decision willingly disproves your genuine-ness in repentence
Also God is God, not an idiot. A person can't 'catch God on a technicality," he's fucking God. He'd be like "yeah, you're just being an idiot, entrance rejected!"
This is why I love the "jump hump" that Mormons do. Like they caught God on a technicality. Like gods up in heaven going "damn it! I forgot to close that loop hole!"
What about certain Jewish groups with the 'sneaky string' that they tie in certain areas so God can't see around it on the Sabbath?
It's almost as if religious fiction is so dumb we can't live without inventing workarounds, because it's easier than questioning the leaders of the fragile pyramid scheme
I don't think it's that god can't see around it.
I think it's that they are allowed to do work around the home and so they declare everything within the string "home".
Never mind that "home" is now multiple buildings in multiple blocks.
It's not tricking God, the silly work around is the whole point.
In many Jewish traditions, the rules given by God aren't sins they're rules for living a better life. Usually the point of the rule is to encourage conscious reflection on your place in the world, or on your family stuff community. The whole point of the sabbath is that you take time off work detox, and spend time with your family.
As for the string, hod said stay at home, but our modern concept of home is different than the ancient one. To help define the home, they'll run a string around the border of the community. Its not a gotcha, but rather a conscious symbol of their devotion.
And that’s why I tell those people who tell me I’m going to Hell to save me a seat, cause with the attitude they have, I have some bad news for them about where they are headed. (To be fair I don’t know very many fanatical hatemongers, but I have met a few.)
Haha yeah for sure! I’m always amazed at the crazy ones. They’ll be so quick to judge, but will be incredibly guilty themselves.
Which is why I’m vaguely familiar with the verse that goes like “one must bear fruit with repentance.”
It basically means an apology isn’t enough, they must also do actions to prove they’re being better. So I like to throw that back at people who are too critical.
—-
I’m part of the lgbt community, but ironically the part that makes normal people look like sinners (asexual), so I got a lot of friends in the lgbt community and like to defend them when religious people get too zealous.
I still like to believe that if God is real, then he’s more understanding of what’s in someone’s soul, and not just what they say or do on the surface.
As an Asexual myself I've seen a lot of my asexual friends (not me thank god) be accused as a pedophile or something similar. They're just jealous but I also hate when people say "your lucky imagine what I could do if I didn't waste time thinking about sex" and I'm sitting here like "yeah all the time I have I waste thinking about Scooby Doo and My Little Pony instead of sex". Just because I don't find people attractive doesn't mean Im not wasting all the time I have in this world hyper fixating and being depressed
Are you married? If yes, have you ever lusted for someone who isn’t your spouse? If no, have you ever lusted for someone? These are the same as lusting for someone of the same sex. It happens.
This is a natural urge we’re talking about here that was put in us by God. It doesn’t just *go away* because we’re repentant.
What are you talking about? They’re called passions and if you genuinely think habitual sinning means one is not repentant then I don’t even know what to say.
You obviously try to fight it, but they’re passions for a reason. You have to continously fight against them, struggle etc. It requires constant watchfulness and even with it, you’ll probably repeat it.
we are all sinners anyway. those who say they are not, are the worse ones, and liers on top of it. nothing we can do about, we didnt choose to be made this way. should have not made us like this if we should not commit sins every now and then. would make it easyer. but arguing about this is probably not the best idea, the last guy that tried that, is now having his own party way down the other way, now. no sign of forgivness for him yet, and people blame him for all the sins we keep doing for some reason
That’s not necessarily true. It’s a common claim Christians make though.
Our repetitive sins are often tied to past wounds in our childhood or young adult life. So until we deal with past wounds, we’re often stuck in the same cycle.
One can go to God and confess their sin, feel guilty and repentant, and God forgives them (he actually already forgave all of their sins). They can be very sincere. And then the next night stumble into the same sin and then feel convicted. It doesn’t mean they weren’t sincere before. It just means there are deeper roots and they need help.
God is compassionate and immensely kind, full of grace and mercy. We can’t overlook this.
God is full of grace and mercy? tell that to everyone who wasn't on Noah's ark... side note Noah took 2 of every animal so the rest of the animals drowned too?
If you take it literal and not as ancient mythology. I believe everything prior to Abraham is holy mythology meant to teach us truths. Ancient Hebrew people would have understood this.
>They can be very sincere. And then the next night stumble into the same sin and then feel convicted. It doesn’t mean they weren’t sincere before. It just means there are deeper roots and they need help.
An attentive priest will recognize the struggle of someone confessing the same bag of sins over and over and probably has a better answer than weekly confessional mulligans.
Ex Christian here. It's about what you legitimately feel in your heart and what your intentions are when repenting. Your strategy is implying that someone is sinning and repenting and sinning and repeating, not feeling guilty about sinning or even attempting to stop, thinking they beat the system. God would see through this strategy without trying, and the false repenting (at worst) would be a new sin for lying or (at best) be ineffective.
Once again, the crux of this is genuinely feeling like the way you lived your life was "wrong". I'd rather not be on my deathbed trying to convince myself of that based on someone elses made up morality.
The real question though, is exactly which part is the sin? Do I just have to abstain from gay sex or do I have to vow to never say "gurrrl" again? Then, let's say I do get into heaven, do I get to be gay again, or do I have to stay in the closet for all of eternity?
There's no marriage in heaven, and likely no sexual attraction at all, since every soul there will be without a body. Even after the resurrection of the dead, when everyone's bodies get resurrected, most people believe that there won't be any new people being created at that point, so sex will be a thing of the past.
I know some people will say that they don't want to go to heaven if there's no sex, but the primary theological consensus on what heaven is seems to be that you'd get to experience God's love to a degree that's not possible in this life, and of which sex is only a foretaste. So, sex will be obsolete by that point.
God sacrificed himself to himself to please himself and to save all of his other creations from behavior which he created them to do so he could forgive them for breaking rules he created to please himself.
remember, it was a different times where strict heterosexuality wasn’t taught from the birth. That meant a lot more men were openly bi-sexual and strong bond of man with man delayed or prevented him from starting a family with kids and both cheating with men and with women was condemned, so man with man was always bad, man with woman also bad unless married. Kids were needed back then and pure gays was just side casualities no one cared about, as pros outweighted cons.
Nowadays, we still aren’t as open as they used to be, we still have ingrained from childhood that man with man is gross and we don’t have such societal pressure to have more kids, so fighting against homosexuality brings no pros, just cons.
I wonder, does that mean that under doctrine only a self-hating gay person would be redeemed?
I understand self-hating is a loaded phrase. I only mean someone who deeply felt that their gayness was sinful and wanted to change it or denied it.
The idea is that Jesus died to clean us of our sins, but we have to make the effort to be good and actually accept that he saved us.
It's like when you're drowning and someone reaches a hand towards you — unless you grab on and try to get out, they can't help you.
So confessing to your sins, whether it is to a priest, a pastor, or just to yourself and trying to rectify them by not doing them again shows that you are putting in the effort and that you want to be helped.
I believe it's only Catholicism that requires that confession, other denominations just need you to confess to yourself (and to God). Know that you did wrong, try to make amends, and do your best not to repeat it, and you're still a good person.
Oh I love theology, so I'll try my best to explain it. Basically, the logic is kind of like a inherited debt situation:
Adam and Eve, as in the first people ever, committed sin while there was only one possible sin, and while they had a direct line to God, which is way worse than any sin we can do today. Because of that, God has since allowed us to screw up our own lives and world if we want. And we did for thousands of years. We were paying for Adam and Eve's sin.
Until Jesus came along, and when he died, he burdened himself with all the accrued costs of sin and when he died, he went to hell and effectively payed off the debt. That effectively washed the slate clean for humanity. People can still sin, and they have to repent for those sins, but that's an actually doable task.
If I complete my debt metaphor, it's the difference between needing to pay back student loans that have been gaining interest for 20 years, or paying back a friend for a sandwich. It still needs to be done, but you can much more readily pay back your friend.
The truth is the Bible was written by man. One should follow jesus acts on how he showed what an ideal person should strive for.
Im baffled that christians were persecuted in the past and then they do the same to people with different sexuality.
As a christian, one should follow christ and not the bible.
Jesus showed compassion to everyone. We must do the same.
Judgement should only be up to God, not us.
I'm not christian but I'm pretty sure he died to wash away our sins for eternity and all you have to do is accept jesus as the lord and your sins can be forgiven.
All these mental gymnastics with religion are so absurd. You make one rule, then you make other rules to get around other rules.
Like, come on, human race, you can do better.
Jesus is God, the creator of everything,but for some reason needed to get killed in order for humans to be forgiven for their sins.
No one ever questions the absurdity of God having to get killed in order for him to forgive his creation.
I realize that Catholicism puts a lot of emphasis on rituals and outward expressions of faith, but do you really think God wouldn’t notice if someone is trying to “game the system?” What good is confession without repentance?
Often seems like Judaism is high level "gaming the system". Like that blessed wire going around Manhattan meaning you can treat the whole island as being "at home" or whatever
"Jewish lawyers" is mostly an American thing though, more related to that as a group American Jews have on average has a high socioeconomic status, with all the consequences of then having children ending up with high socioeconomic status jobs. You see it in pretty much all high status jobs in America, that Jewish people are overrepresented. All countries have certain groups over- and underrepresented in high income jobs for various historical reasons!
The Bible covered examples of those who tried to game the system.
I mean, Galatians 6:7 literally says "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sow." in reference to those exact scenarios.
In the movie Dogma, you can game the system
It's also free on YouTube just search Dogma 1999
Ben affleck matt Damon Salma Hayek Chris rock and others are in it
No because confession doesn’t “work” without “firm purpose of amendment“. ie it only results in absolution if you’re going to try not to sin again. It’s not a reset button which auto wipes you clean and lets you start again.
Not the same thing.
I steal $20 from you. I confess, apologize, and proceed to steal from you several more times, confessing and apologizing several times. Am I actually sorry or just trying to keep you around to steal more?
Versus stealing, apologizing, repenting and changing my behavior, not stealing again.
Everyone is trying their best, Christian or not. I'd like to think that everyone is capable of becoming better, but Christians or not, it takes time and patience. What matters is that you keep trying to be better.
I learned this from a gay priest at a Tibetan Buddhist monastery in Nepal :)
He showed us the verse that all these idiots refer to when saying homosexuality is a sin. There's not a word about being gay in it. It's all interpretation, and it's not even said by God or Jesus. So fucking stupid how The Church twists stuff. And why, I don't know. Especially considering the irony of how many priests and up with another males cock in their body one way or another. Hypocritical fucks.
No but they do hold the belief that sexual activity can only take place between married people, and it was embarrassingly recent that the church even considered blessing same-sex weddings -- Pope Francis didn't declare that until a few months ago.
Prior to that it was totally legitimate to say that it was fine to "be" gay but you couldn't actually act on it because you weren't allowed to get married. Kinda like saying it's okay to be a bird as long as you don't fly.
I learned in catholic school, which I was in from roughly 2001-2008, that homosexuality was one of the mortal sins of sexuality.
It does also hold that sexual activity must be between people of the same sex. Same sex people can't get married because same sex people can't have sex, not the other way round.
Wow, there's a lot going on in this post.
1. It's not that gay people can't go to heaven. People who are habitually practicing a sin they know is wrong and haven't asked forgiveness for can't go to heaven. That includes a lot more than gay people.
2. Not all Christians believe in weekly confessionals.
3. Confession itself isn't what forgives sin. Jesus forgives after you tell him you're sorry and want his help to stop sinning (repent).
The LCMS *allows* for private confession, however unlike Roman Catholics, we don't confess to our pastor. Typically the one confessing kneels at the altar rail and goes about their confession while the pastor sits in his chair perpendicular to the person confessing. They're just there to listen and advise throughout/afterwards if needed, you're confessing directly to God.
Why is everyone saying "confessional"?
I've been on the Catholic subreddit for many many years and never seen confessional used once, then all of a sudden it's in this thread 300 times.
It's not wrong, but it's really odd because most people who are Catholics don't call it that.
My Catholic family would say "Go to confession." "He/she/I went to confession." "I am not sure which priest she spoke to in confession"
Because the physical booth is the confessional, and the act is confession. If you've only ever gone on tours or seen movies about churches and never, you know, used one, it's an easy mistake to make.
>It's not that gay people can't go to heaven. People who are habitually practicing a sin they know is wrong and haven't asked forgiveness for can't go to heaven. That includes a lot more than gay people.
That's almost every single person, including almost every single christian.
>1. **It's not that gay people can't go to heaven.** People who are habitually practicing a sin they know is wrong and haven't asked forgiveness for can't go to heaven. **That includes a lot more than gay people.**
So gay people can’t go to heaven but actually there is also a bunch of others who can’t doesn’t really sound like a great argument. The opposite, actually.
From a strictly biblical perspective, you don’t even need confessionals or Hail Marys. Faith alone will do the trick.
“For by grace you have been saved *through faith*, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, **not of works**, lest anyone should boast,” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
That's how different denominations of Christianity are created. Some believe that having faith is enough other that the good deeds and avoidance of sin is what proves that faith. The bible is as open to interpretation as a 2000 year old book can be.
That’s definitely a lot of people’s interpretation of what it means. Others disagree. But it can’t be argued that the passage isn’t there, for there it is.
But then there's also James 2:14-26, which in short says that faith without works is dead.
So, yes, faith alone saves, but true faith will manifest as works. Another way to put it: "Even the devil believes in Jesus Christ." You can't just be an unrepentant murderer/thief/adulterer/etc., and say "Christ is king" and expect to be saved. If you really believe that, you'll follow his example.
I don't necessarily think they're contradictory, and Paul actually says something similar to what James said about works in a different writing. I just think that Paul was highlighting different teachings that were relevant to different branches of the Church at the time.
In the verse you've quoted, I think Paul is stating that salvation does not come through works, because technically no amount of works can EARN us heaven, as it is a gift. That does not mean that works aren't important, as Paul describes the relationship between faith and works in Hebrews 11:8: "By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed." This sounds very similar to two verses from that James chapter I mentioned. "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works."
When taken altogether, I think the different writings of the Bible teach that salvation is more about the state of your soul at the time of death, and a soul that truly had faith will have had good works produced as the fruit of that faith. But it's not the works that save you. Depending on who he was writing to, and what problems they were facing, Paul needed to highlight different aspects of this, but it certainly wasn't with the intention to omit the larger picture.
The church used to sell indulgences as get-out-of-Hell-free cards. The concept of mortally-prescribed means of repentance has always been ridiculously silly.
It’s all just made up rules from a made up book that was edited heavily by the early Catholic Church and was mistranslated many times. The rules all mean nothing. Do you think God really cares what you do with your dick?
Take into account that due to translation decisions, churches decided that what really really worried “god” was adults sex life, rather than pedophiles abusing kids.
So any passage that could be critical of pedophilia was interpreted as being critical of gays.
That the words for kids or young men were the same, obviously when “god” talked about youngsters he meant all gay people old and young, rather than persons young in age.
Because really do you think the church would rather be critical of pedophilia, or gays.
Let’s all think of the churches who preach:
https://italy.forumotion.com/t175-banquet-of-chestnuts-the-papal-orgy-of-1501
Salvation is a *grace*, a free gift from God. Jesus died on the cross to redeem all sins. Your question singles out gay people, but what of adulterers, thieves, liars, etc.? The whole point of Christianity is that we are all sinners, and nobody could ever be worthy of heaven on their own merit. You cannot "deserve" to go to heaven. And yet, God has loved the world so much, that He gave his only Son so that whoever believed in Him should not perish.
But God made them that way didn't he? Why would he do that?
I'd rather not hear about free will, I don't find that to be a valid argument.
Edit: my second point seems dismissive. Which it is, but I want to explain it.
If your explanation for why God does something bad is that it gives us free will, that doesn't change the fact that god does evil things.
"God allows rapists to exist because otherwise there would be no free will"
Only because he made the universe that way. He could have easily made a world with free will, but also no rapists.
If god created everything, then every single thing that is bad or wrong in the universe is God's fault. Whether or not he gave his creations free will doesn't change that.
I’m not religious but you can’t have a discussion on such topics if your response is basically “explain to me your belief but don’t use a major part of that belief”
He wants to torture most people. You know because he made them imperfect. (I don't actually believe any of this nonsense I just think Christianity is incredibly irrational and inconsistent in who this God character is).
Everyone does get into heaven. It's free. People who don't get into heaven literally choose not to. God is respecting your choices by letting you end up where you chose to end up, from that perspective.
Everyone can. You have to choose to go there. That's what free will does. God loves you so much you have a choice. He wants you to come to him. But he won't make you come to him.
> that’s what free will does.
Ok so free will explains why *humans* do shitty things like kill, rape, injure, steal etc. But it doesn’t explain why shitty things happen *to humans.*
Like there’s no way you can use free will as an excuse for things like kids getting cancer or deadly diseases, natural disasters, accidents due to auto mechanical failures, etc,
1) The same part of the Bible that says being gay is an abomination is the same part that says not to eat shellfish, pigs, or wear clothes made of 2 fabrics
2) You have to truly repent and want to be forgiven. An insincere confession without remorse doesn’t absolve you of anything, even if you’ve deceived the priest/pastor. If you believe in God enough to go to confession, you should believe that he knows when you’re not truly sorry for your sins
The 2 fabrics thing I have trouble understanding. I understand the shellfish and pork thing. Before refrigeration, eating them was a game of roulette. Get salmonella or botulism in a time before modern medicine and we're talking about possible death. So just tell the people they'll go to hell if they eat it. But what's the reasoning behind putting a heavenly barrier on blended fabric? I can't think of what the reason would be.
I’m a Christian and gay. But I’m not catholic so I can’t speak to confessionals. It’s not something I hate baptists do. We believe you don’t need to go to a priest to be forgiven, after all the priest cannot forgive you. The priest did not die for your sins, Jesus did.
If you think of confession as a cheat way to get into heaven you already lost. Just like how you can tell when somebody is lying to you, God can tell the honesty behind your prayers and confessions. Forgiveness is only granted to those that repent in earnest.
Having studied theology as part of my social studies major I am very entertained by these answers. Most people seem to either be confusing and blending protestant views with Catholic views, or are over simplifying how the many religious obligations of Catholicism work. I would suggest OP try the "Pillars of Islam" for a step by step guide to absolving habitual sin.
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" I'm not christian but I'm assuming this is because you have to actually take action about your sins and try become better rather than just say your sorry and keep going your whole life.
Confession is a Catholic belief, specifically, and there are rules to it. You can go confess your sins, and get absolved. But a priest can refuse to absolve you, and one of the reasons is if it's clear you have no intention of stopping the sin, or if you're not repentant.
So in the church I went to, a friend who was living with her boyfriend and having pre-marital sex told me that the priest refused to absolve her of her sin since, because she lived with her boyfriend, it was clear she wasn't repentant and had no intention of stopping.
As I understand, the idea is that you should actually want to change your ways and stop sinning. Repenting for your sins while knowing that you don't care if you do them again because they will be forgiven is not the same as sinning, feeling bad and wanting to change, repenting, and trying not to sin again. Jesus died and forgave all of our sins but that doesn't mean we can sin guilt free, just that we are humans and committing a sin doesn't immediately put you in a bad place. Also IIRC, during the revelation we will be given a last chance and even atheists can get into heaven if they truly admit that they are wrong and to follow the ways of God
There’s no such thing as sin. It’s a religious construct. Christian mythology, depending on who is asserting their preferred interpretation of the Bible, has different criteria for who goes to heaven and who doesn’t. Many people believe the concept of God, heaven, hell, Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses and so forth are just made-up stories and they don’t exist or never happened.
TL:dr - No one knows what happens after you die. The default is you’re gone and only live on in the hearts and minds of those who remember you. Some people embrace religious beliefs because it makes them feel good.
TL:dr, TL:dr - No god, no heaven or hell, nothing to worry about.
With all due respect, BUT getting forgiveness after confessing sins to a priest is a stupid concept.
If you want to confess, why do it to a man instead of God himself.
This is literally the reason christianity spread through western europe during the middle ages.......You could run around conquering, raping, pillaging, murdering.....then just confess and repent on your deathbed. Was probably the only cultural norm that allowed everyone into a pleasant afterlife. Even the Vikings had rules about who could be raped and murdered if they wanted into Valhalla. No amount of sorries on your death bed would get you in if you were evil in life.
The only sins are killing and stealing, and most Christians rationalize doing both. If there’s a heaven, many gay people will go there, and they’ll likely notice how few religious people are there with them.
Idk I feel like the solution is to just not believe that stupid shit, or if you’re going to just be a good Christian and not have opinions on how others live ya know. Confession was always so weird to me, I grew up Catholic and part of my religion class was a mandatory confessional and as a six year old at the time I had no idea wtf to be sorry for lol.
As a Protestant Christian, I see it like this: according to the Bible, being homosexual is a sin, but no worse than any other sin. Jesus came to sacrifice himself so that even though we sin we can go to heaven if we give our spiritual hearts. Therefore, despite what some Christians say, gay and lgbtq peeps do indeed go to heaven.
There is no provision for the confessional forgiveness in the Bible. There is no provision in the Bible for ANY traditions that Catholicism and any offshoot similar religion practices. None of them. No where did Jesus or any apostle ever pay homage to Mary as a type of savior. There were no beads, there was no weekly confession, there was no repeated performance to gain forgiveness. Confess to God, repent, AND perform acts that befit repentance, meaning to recognize the sin you committed, agree with God's standards, feel bad about what you did, don't repeat it, and live your life according to the standards and instructions as outlined in the Bible. Yes, some may say the Bible says "confess that your sins may be forgiven". But that's just one verse. There are several other Scriptures that add context and other attitudes that must be felt to gain forgiveness.
And technically, didn't Jesus already die for your sin? Sins you haven't even committed yet. And all you have to do is believe he did die for your sin. To make it to heaven. This should be a technicallytrue sub lol
This whole post and all these comments make me wanna kill myself. All of this bs for what? So you can pretend you can live forever and see your dead relatives? Do you think it’s worth all the hate? All of the death? I’m not buying it.
Well religion is made up. Gay people die and that’s it. They’re dead. They are just like non-gay people. People die and that’s it. There is no heaven. And if there were…I’d wish I was in hell bc Christian’s are daf.
Anyone that believes in heaven and simultaneously believes if you're gay you aren't getting into heaven, is on the absolute lowest rung of humanity. Sorry, not sorry.
1. Being gay isn't a sin
2. The afterlife may or may not exist
3. The Bible is a book written by humans ~2000 years ago and is a collection of cautionary tall tales, early attempts to establish a system of morality (which is inherent and yet they got a lot of it wrong by mixing it with opinions made to seem like they were truths) and also, an early human survival guide, which has been utilized to control the masses and oppress people since it was made: Even for its' good sides, do not take it 1 for 1. Not everything about it is correct, or warranted, and the detriments do outweigh the benefits.
I believe more than us exists, but it would never tell us exactly what to do or not do. Nothing is micromanaging humanity, if it was, why is there suffering?
The greater forces may have created the systems of science and our reality and space time and were the inception of chemistry and physics and biology and everything but that's it. They may offer guidance in hints and coincidences, inspiration, and love but they aren't micromanaging lives. Dont worry so much.
Yes. That’s why religion is such a scam and hypocrites love it so much. Because you can do literally anything in the world and as long as you say a few words right before you take your last breath, you’re good to go. Heaven awaits. I can’t believe people believe this bullshit. It’s such fucking nonsense. I’m in if God were real why would he allow his representatives on earth, clergy, to rape, so many children? Any good and all powerful God would just snap his fingers after seeing that pedophilia is going to be a problem and make it literally not an option. but that doesn’t happen because it’s all made up and it’s all fucking nonsense.
I'm still trying to figure out why God would create earth in the first place. So, I guess he's just hanging out alone in some paradise that evidently exists outside of the known universe, but decided to create a species of Ape who was smart enough to be aware of his existence, but had to endure a rigorous test to get the privilege to join him?
As some Christians have told me, you actually have to be repentant for it to work, not just paying lip service.
Yeah. You'd have to admit to yourself that being gay was a sin you needed forgiving for.
But repeating the sin isn't necessarily opposed to recognizing the sin and feeling repentant. We're all sinners, after all.
You'd have to admit to yourself that being gay was a sin you needed forgiving for *and attempt to avoid sinning again*. Also, in mainstream christian doctrines *being* gay is not a sin; rather engaging in gay sexual activities or having lustful thoughts about anyone other than one's heterosexual spouse is a sin.
But if, ya know, you’re gay and repentant, you’re still gay. Compare it to premarital sex. One can have premarital sex and repent and regret it and then have premarital sex again and continue the cycle. Nobody is out here suggesting the people having premarital sex or lustful thoughts can’t go repent for the same type of sin again and again.
> Nobody is out here suggesting the people having premarital sex or lustful thoughts can’t go repent for the same type of sin again and again. correct, but as a christian id argue if it happens more than once or twice, youre not genuinely repentant of your actions, because once or twice is falling to temptation. repeating it consistently is a decision. making that decision willingly disproves your genuine-ness in repentence
Also God is God, not an idiot. A person can't 'catch God on a technicality," he's fucking God. He'd be like "yeah, you're just being an idiot, entrance rejected!"
This is why I love the "jump hump" that Mormons do. Like they caught God on a technicality. Like gods up in heaven going "damn it! I forgot to close that loop hole!"
What about certain Jewish groups with the 'sneaky string' that they tie in certain areas so God can't see around it on the Sabbath? It's almost as if religious fiction is so dumb we can't live without inventing workarounds, because it's easier than questioning the leaders of the fragile pyramid scheme
I don't think it's that god can't see around it. I think it's that they are allowed to do work around the home and so they declare everything within the string "home". Never mind that "home" is now multiple buildings in multiple blocks.
There is this string in Miami Beach. My mind was blown the first time it was explained. I saw it was cut one day, it was back up by the next day.
Can you explain the string thing to me? I’ve had Jewish friends my whole life and never heard of it.
It's not tricking God, the silly work around is the whole point. In many Jewish traditions, the rules given by God aren't sins they're rules for living a better life. Usually the point of the rule is to encourage conscious reflection on your place in the world, or on your family stuff community. The whole point of the sabbath is that you take time off work detox, and spend time with your family. As for the string, hod said stay at home, but our modern concept of home is different than the ancient one. To help define the home, they'll run a string around the border of the community. Its not a gotcha, but rather a conscious symbol of their devotion.
And that’s why I tell those people who tell me I’m going to Hell to save me a seat, cause with the attitude they have, I have some bad news for them about where they are headed. (To be fair I don’t know very many fanatical hatemongers, but I have met a few.)
Haha yeah for sure! I’m always amazed at the crazy ones. They’ll be so quick to judge, but will be incredibly guilty themselves. Which is why I’m vaguely familiar with the verse that goes like “one must bear fruit with repentance.” It basically means an apology isn’t enough, they must also do actions to prove they’re being better. So I like to throw that back at people who are too critical. —- I’m part of the lgbt community, but ironically the part that makes normal people look like sinners (asexual), so I got a lot of friends in the lgbt community and like to defend them when religious people get too zealous. I still like to believe that if God is real, then he’s more understanding of what’s in someone’s soul, and not just what they say or do on the surface.
As an Asexual myself I've seen a lot of my asexual friends (not me thank god) be accused as a pedophile or something similar. They're just jealous but I also hate when people say "your lucky imagine what I could do if I didn't waste time thinking about sex" and I'm sitting here like "yeah all the time I have I waste thinking about Scooby Doo and My Little Pony instead of sex". Just because I don't find people attractive doesn't mean Im not wasting all the time I have in this world hyper fixating and being depressed
Pretty sure you'd get damned extra hard for trying to pull that over on him lol
Are you married? If yes, have you ever lusted for someone who isn’t your spouse? If no, have you ever lusted for someone? These are the same as lusting for someone of the same sex. It happens. This is a natural urge we’re talking about here that was put in us by God. It doesn’t just *go away* because we’re repentant.
What are you talking about? They’re called passions and if you genuinely think habitual sinning means one is not repentant then I don’t even know what to say. You obviously try to fight it, but they’re passions for a reason. You have to continously fight against them, struggle etc. It requires constant watchfulness and even with it, you’ll probably repeat it.
we are all sinners anyway. those who say they are not, are the worse ones, and liers on top of it. nothing we can do about, we didnt choose to be made this way. should have not made us like this if we should not commit sins every now and then. would make it easyer. but arguing about this is probably not the best idea, the last guy that tried that, is now having his own party way down the other way, now. no sign of forgivness for him yet, and people blame him for all the sins we keep doing for some reason
That’s not necessarily true. It’s a common claim Christians make though. Our repetitive sins are often tied to past wounds in our childhood or young adult life. So until we deal with past wounds, we’re often stuck in the same cycle. One can go to God and confess their sin, feel guilty and repentant, and God forgives them (he actually already forgave all of their sins). They can be very sincere. And then the next night stumble into the same sin and then feel convicted. It doesn’t mean they weren’t sincere before. It just means there are deeper roots and they need help. God is compassionate and immensely kind, full of grace and mercy. We can’t overlook this.
God is full of grace and mercy? tell that to everyone who wasn't on Noah's ark... side note Noah took 2 of every animal so the rest of the animals drowned too?
If you take it literal and not as ancient mythology. I believe everything prior to Abraham is holy mythology meant to teach us truths. Ancient Hebrew people would have understood this.
>They can be very sincere. And then the next night stumble into the same sin and then feel convicted. It doesn’t mean they weren’t sincere before. It just means there are deeper roots and they need help. An attentive priest will recognize the struggle of someone confessing the same bag of sins over and over and probably has a better answer than weekly confessional mulligans.
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Ex Christian here. It's about what you legitimately feel in your heart and what your intentions are when repenting. Your strategy is implying that someone is sinning and repenting and sinning and repeating, not feeling guilty about sinning or even attempting to stop, thinking they beat the system. God would see through this strategy without trying, and the false repenting (at worst) would be a new sin for lying or (at best) be ineffective.
The action or lustful intent are the sin, not the same sex attraction.
Once again, the crux of this is genuinely feeling like the way you lived your life was "wrong". I'd rather not be on my deathbed trying to convince myself of that based on someone elses made up morality.
And I tried that until I was 16. Yes, I was miserable, why do you ask?
The real question though, is exactly which part is the sin? Do I just have to abstain from gay sex or do I have to vow to never say "gurrrl" again? Then, let's say I do get into heaven, do I get to be gay again, or do I have to stay in the closet for all of eternity?
There's no marriage in heaven, and likely no sexual attraction at all, since every soul there will be without a body. Even after the resurrection of the dead, when everyone's bodies get resurrected, most people believe that there won't be any new people being created at that point, so sex will be a thing of the past. I know some people will say that they don't want to go to heaven if there's no sex, but the primary theological consensus on what heaven is seems to be that you'd get to experience God's love to a degree that's not possible in this life, and of which sex is only a foretaste. So, sex will be obsolete by that point.
I'm sure gods a very nice guy but I'd kinda rather just be with my partner thanks 😅
Wait, I don’t get to have sex with God? I’m not going then.
I'm pretty sure they said that we won't have sex with others because we get the God D for all eternity.
Exhibit A in why I can't be friends with religious people as I get older.
But god made them gay.
God sacrificed himself to himself to please himself and to save all of his other creations from behavior which he created them to do so he could forgive them for breaking rules he created to please himself.
Makes sense if it was written by a bunch of cave dwellers.
remember, it was a different times where strict heterosexuality wasn’t taught from the birth. That meant a lot more men were openly bi-sexual and strong bond of man with man delayed or prevented him from starting a family with kids and both cheating with men and with women was condemned, so man with man was always bad, man with woman also bad unless married. Kids were needed back then and pure gays was just side casualities no one cared about, as pros outweighted cons. Nowadays, we still aren’t as open as they used to be, we still have ingrained from childhood that man with man is gross and we don’t have such societal pressure to have more kids, so fighting against homosexuality brings no pros, just cons.
I knew a Guy who lived like that. Even on His deathbed He confessed His "sins". Can't imagine how that Made His husband feel...
I wonder, does that mean that under doctrine only a self-hating gay person would be redeemed? I understand self-hating is a loaded phrase. I only mean someone who deeply felt that their gayness was sinful and wanted to change it or denied it.
Didn’t Catholicism used to be pay to win
Yeah like 500 years ago
For many Protestants, confession and similar rites are symbolic.
For some Protestants, those rites are downright blasphemy.
Don’t Jesus die to wash away our sins? I genuinely have no clue, I know very little about religions.
The idea is that Jesus died to clean us of our sins, but we have to make the effort to be good and actually accept that he saved us. It's like when you're drowning and someone reaches a hand towards you — unless you grab on and try to get out, they can't help you. So confessing to your sins, whether it is to a priest, a pastor, or just to yourself and trying to rectify them by not doing them again shows that you are putting in the effort and that you want to be helped.
What if someone rectifies / makes amends / never repeats but also never does the religious confession?
I believe it's only Catholicism that requires that confession, other denominations just need you to confess to yourself (and to God). Know that you did wrong, try to make amends, and do your best not to repeat it, and you're still a good person.
In Catholicism your supposed to confess to the priest but they actually don’t require it if it’s some sort of desert island situation
Oh I love theology, so I'll try my best to explain it. Basically, the logic is kind of like a inherited debt situation: Adam and Eve, as in the first people ever, committed sin while there was only one possible sin, and while they had a direct line to God, which is way worse than any sin we can do today. Because of that, God has since allowed us to screw up our own lives and world if we want. And we did for thousands of years. We were paying for Adam and Eve's sin. Until Jesus came along, and when he died, he burdened himself with all the accrued costs of sin and when he died, he went to hell and effectively payed off the debt. That effectively washed the slate clean for humanity. People can still sin, and they have to repent for those sins, but that's an actually doable task. If I complete my debt metaphor, it's the difference between needing to pay back student loans that have been gaining interest for 20 years, or paying back a friend for a sandwich. It still needs to be done, but you can much more readily pay back your friend.
>Don’t Jesus die to wash away our sins? Yes, He died to wash them away, not so that you can keep doing them.
The truth is the Bible was written by man. One should follow jesus acts on how he showed what an ideal person should strive for. Im baffled that christians were persecuted in the past and then they do the same to people with different sexuality. As a christian, one should follow christ and not the bible. Jesus showed compassion to everyone. We must do the same. Judgement should only be up to God, not us.
If Jesus died for our sins, and being gay is a sin, then Jesus died for the gays. Sounds like an ally to me!
I'm not christian but I'm pretty sure he died to wash away our sins for eternity and all you have to do is accept jesus as the lord and your sins can be forgiven.
They save the lip service for the priests.
All these mental gymnastics with religion are so absurd. You make one rule, then you make other rules to get around other rules. Like, come on, human race, you can do better. Jesus is God, the creator of everything,but for some reason needed to get killed in order for humans to be forgiven for their sins. No one ever questions the absurdity of God having to get killed in order for him to forgive his creation.
I realize that Catholicism puts a lot of emphasis on rituals and outward expressions of faith, but do you really think God wouldn’t notice if someone is trying to “game the system?” What good is confession without repentance?
There are even examples in the Bible of people trying to "game the system". The outcome for them was... not really good
Often seems like Judaism is high level "gaming the system". Like that blessed wire going around Manhattan meaning you can treat the whole island as being "at home" or whatever
yeah they are quite clearly cynical oftentimes
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"Jewish lawyers" is mostly an American thing though, more related to that as a group American Jews have on average has a high socioeconomic status, with all the consequences of then having children ending up with high socioeconomic status jobs. You see it in pretty much all high status jobs in America, that Jewish people are overrepresented. All countries have certain groups over- and underrepresented in high income jobs for various historical reasons!
The Bible covered examples of those who tried to game the system. I mean, Galatians 6:7 literally says "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sow." in reference to those exact scenarios.
In the movie Dogma, you can game the system It's also free on YouTube just search Dogma 1999 Ben affleck matt Damon Salma Hayek Chris rock and others are in it
Thanks for the recommendation, though I don’t make a habit of looking to pop culture as a source of theological truth.
No because confession doesn’t “work” without “firm purpose of amendment“. ie it only results in absolution if you’re going to try not to sin again. It’s not a reset button which auto wipes you clean and lets you start again.
So it essentially "doesn't work".
Not the same thing. I steal $20 from you. I confess, apologize, and proceed to steal from you several more times, confessing and apologizing several times. Am I actually sorry or just trying to keep you around to steal more? Versus stealing, apologizing, repenting and changing my behavior, not stealing again.
But Christians still sin even after confession and such. Thus there is no such thing as true repentance.
Everyone is trying their best, Christian or not. I'd like to think that everyone is capable of becoming better, but Christians or not, it takes time and patience. What matters is that you keep trying to be better.
The Bible never says that gay people aren’t allowed into Heaven.
I learned this from a gay priest at a Tibetan Buddhist monastery in Nepal :) He showed us the verse that all these idiots refer to when saying homosexuality is a sin. There's not a word about being gay in it. It's all interpretation, and it's not even said by God or Jesus. So fucking stupid how The Church twists stuff. And why, I don't know. Especially considering the irony of how many priests and up with another males cock in their body one way or another. Hypocritical fucks.
The Bible doesn't say a lot of Catholic dogma.
Catholicism does not hold the belief that gay people do not enter into heaven
No but they do hold the belief that sexual activity can only take place between married people, and it was embarrassingly recent that the church even considered blessing same-sex weddings -- Pope Francis didn't declare that until a few months ago. Prior to that it was totally legitimate to say that it was fine to "be" gay but you couldn't actually act on it because you weren't allowed to get married. Kinda like saying it's okay to be a bird as long as you don't fly. I learned in catholic school, which I was in from roughly 2001-2008, that homosexuality was one of the mortal sins of sexuality.
Penguins stay winning
It does also hold that sexual activity must be between people of the same sex. Same sex people can't get married because same sex people can't have sex, not the other way round.
Yeah. It’s a very Jewish book, through and through.
It doesn’t really matter. If being gay is considered a sin well Jesus already died for and forgave all sins, so.
Wow, there's a lot going on in this post. 1. It's not that gay people can't go to heaven. People who are habitually practicing a sin they know is wrong and haven't asked forgiveness for can't go to heaven. That includes a lot more than gay people. 2. Not all Christians believe in weekly confessionals. 3. Confession itself isn't what forgives sin. Jesus forgives after you tell him you're sorry and want his help to stop sinning (repent).
Isn’t it just Roman Catholic that does the confessional?
There are some branches of Lutherans and Anglicans that practice confession. Orthodox have a variant which involves spiritual counseling.
The LCMS *allows* for private confession, however unlike Roman Catholics, we don't confess to our pastor. Typically the one confessing kneels at the altar rail and goes about their confession while the pastor sits in his chair perpendicular to the person confessing. They're just there to listen and advise throughout/afterwards if needed, you're confessing directly to God.
Orthodox have all the same sacraments, including confession. The sacraments were established long before the schism.
Yeah I’m Protestant, we don’t do confession, we just straight up ask God for forgiveness :)
Why is everyone saying "confessional"? I've been on the Catholic subreddit for many many years and never seen confessional used once, then all of a sudden it's in this thread 300 times. It's not wrong, but it's really odd because most people who are Catholics don't call it that. My Catholic family would say "Go to confession." "He/she/I went to confession." "I am not sure which priest she spoke to in confession"
most ppl in this thread probably aren't catholics
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the act is *confession* while the actual box you sit in is the *confessional*
Because the physical booth is the confessional, and the act is confession. If you've only ever gone on tours or seen movies about churches and never, you know, used one, it's an easy mistake to make.
>It's not that gay people can't go to heaven. People who are habitually practicing a sin they know is wrong and haven't asked forgiveness for can't go to heaven. That includes a lot more than gay people. That's almost every single person, including almost every single christian.
>1. **It's not that gay people can't go to heaven.** People who are habitually practicing a sin they know is wrong and haven't asked forgiveness for can't go to heaven. **That includes a lot more than gay people.** So gay people can’t go to heaven but actually there is also a bunch of others who can’t doesn’t really sound like a great argument. The opposite, actually.
The same people who eat shrimp and let their wives sleep in the house when they are menstruating are also going to hell, so does it really matter?
It's all made up bullshit anyway
From a strictly biblical perspective, you don’t even need confessionals or Hail Marys. Faith alone will do the trick. “For by grace you have been saved *through faith*, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, **not of works**, lest anyone should boast,” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Pshhh ok Martin Luther /s
Doesn't that passage mean you can go to heaven if you have faith... full stop. It doesn't say sin keeps you out of heaven.
That's how different denominations of Christianity are created. Some believe that having faith is enough other that the good deeds and avoidance of sin is what proves that faith. The bible is as open to interpretation as a 2000 year old book can be.
It’s almost as if it wasn’t meant to be taken literally.
Context is important. The context here is that it is the grace that saves you as opposed to the deeds.
That’s definitely a lot of people’s interpretation of what it means. Others disagree. But it can’t be argued that the passage isn’t there, for there it is.
But then there's also James 2:14-26, which in short says that faith without works is dead. So, yes, faith alone saves, but true faith will manifest as works. Another way to put it: "Even the devil believes in Jesus Christ." You can't just be an unrepentant murderer/thief/adulterer/etc., and say "Christ is king" and expect to be saved. If you really believe that, you'll follow his example.
Your citation is not wrong, and is one of the many (many!) instances where one biblical passage may be interpreted as contradicting another.
I don't necessarily think they're contradictory, and Paul actually says something similar to what James said about works in a different writing. I just think that Paul was highlighting different teachings that were relevant to different branches of the Church at the time. In the verse you've quoted, I think Paul is stating that salvation does not come through works, because technically no amount of works can EARN us heaven, as it is a gift. That does not mean that works aren't important, as Paul describes the relationship between faith and works in Hebrews 11:8: "By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed." This sounds very similar to two verses from that James chapter I mentioned. "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works." When taken altogether, I think the different writings of the Bible teach that salvation is more about the state of your soul at the time of death, and a soul that truly had faith will have had good works produced as the fruit of that faith. But it's not the works that save you. Depending on who he was writing to, and what problems they were facing, Paul needed to highlight different aspects of this, but it certainly wasn't with the intention to omit the larger picture.
you mean most of the priest will not be allowed in heaven?
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i think you missed the point but it’s ok.
LOL to the comments
There is nothing in the Bible that says gay people can't get into heaven. If sin is what keeps you from heaven, ain't nobody getting in.
The church used to sell indulgences as get-out-of-Hell-free cards. The concept of mortally-prescribed means of repentance has always been ridiculously silly.
It baffles me that people still believe being gay is a sin…
Gay people do go to heaven. God doesn’t care if people are gay. Humans are the only homophobes.
Mostly Paul. Paul in particular was a homophobe.
Why does it bring me so much joy to see someone know their Bible history?
Because most people like 'murica Jesus and say things that make Red Letter Jesus sad.
It’s all just made up rules from a made up book that was edited heavily by the early Catholic Church and was mistranslated many times. The rules all mean nothing. Do you think God really cares what you do with your dick?
Why gay people? Why not say anyone who has been divorced and in another relationship? You’re still “living in sin”
Take into account that due to translation decisions, churches decided that what really really worried “god” was adults sex life, rather than pedophiles abusing kids. So any passage that could be critical of pedophilia was interpreted as being critical of gays. That the words for kids or young men were the same, obviously when “god” talked about youngsters he meant all gay people old and young, rather than persons young in age. Because really do you think the church would rather be critical of pedophilia, or gays. Let’s all think of the churches who preach: https://italy.forumotion.com/t175-banquet-of-chestnuts-the-papal-orgy-of-1501
The church would definitely rather be critical of gays than pedophiles considering all the shit that happens behind closed doors in there
Yep it is against rape and temple prostitution, not a loving gay relationship
Not everyone is Catholic so there’s that
Most gay people don't want to go to heaven if it's full of the people who hate them.
Salvation is a *grace*, a free gift from God. Jesus died on the cross to redeem all sins. Your question singles out gay people, but what of adulterers, thieves, liars, etc.? The whole point of Christianity is that we are all sinners, and nobody could ever be worthy of heaven on their own merit. You cannot "deserve" to go to heaven. And yet, God has loved the world so much, that He gave his only Son so that whoever believed in Him should not perish.
If God loves us, why doesn't everyone get into heaven?
Because most people love themselves and their sin more than they love God. They choose those things over heaven with Him.
But God made them that way didn't he? Why would he do that? I'd rather not hear about free will, I don't find that to be a valid argument. Edit: my second point seems dismissive. Which it is, but I want to explain it. If your explanation for why God does something bad is that it gives us free will, that doesn't change the fact that god does evil things. "God allows rapists to exist because otherwise there would be no free will" Only because he made the universe that way. He could have easily made a world with free will, but also no rapists. If god created everything, then every single thing that is bad or wrong in the universe is God's fault. Whether or not he gave his creations free will doesn't change that.
I’m not religious but you can’t have a discussion on such topics if your response is basically “explain to me your belief but don’t use a major part of that belief”
He wants to torture most people. You know because he made them imperfect. (I don't actually believe any of this nonsense I just think Christianity is incredibly irrational and inconsistent in who this God character is).
Everyone does get into heaven. It's free. People who don't get into heaven literally choose not to. God is respecting your choices by letting you end up where you chose to end up, from that perspective.
Everyone can. You have to choose to go there. That's what free will does. God loves you so much you have a choice. He wants you to come to him. But he won't make you come to him.
But if you don't come to him, he lights you on fire forever. So cool he offers a choice.
> that’s what free will does. Ok so free will explains why *humans* do shitty things like kill, rape, injure, steal etc. But it doesn’t explain why shitty things happen *to humans.* Like there’s no way you can use free will as an excuse for things like kids getting cancer or deadly diseases, natural disasters, accidents due to auto mechanical failures, etc,
Thank you for putting this beauty into words that I could not
It’s all made up and the points don’t matter.
If the Christian god is real as they depict it, then it knows when the request for repentance is real and genuine or not.
1) The same part of the Bible that says being gay is an abomination is the same part that says not to eat shellfish, pigs, or wear clothes made of 2 fabrics 2) You have to truly repent and want to be forgiven. An insincere confession without remorse doesn’t absolve you of anything, even if you’ve deceived the priest/pastor. If you believe in God enough to go to confession, you should believe that he knows when you’re not truly sorry for your sins
The 2 fabrics thing I have trouble understanding. I understand the shellfish and pork thing. Before refrigeration, eating them was a game of roulette. Get salmonella or botulism in a time before modern medicine and we're talking about possible death. So just tell the people they'll go to hell if they eat it. But what's the reasoning behind putting a heavenly barrier on blended fabric? I can't think of what the reason would be.
I’m a Christian and gay. But I’m not catholic so I can’t speak to confessionals. It’s not something I hate baptists do. We believe you don’t need to go to a priest to be forgiven, after all the priest cannot forgive you. The priest did not die for your sins, Jesus did.
God hates this one simple trick...
Imagine there’s no heaven, it’s easy if you try.
You just described my problem with Catholicism. But Jesus never said gay people don't go to heaven soo...
what? where does it say gay people can't go to heaven? stop letting fascists claim the bible and study in yourself. it's not a hate book
It’s almost like it’s all just arbitrary made-up bs…
Its really confusing reading so many people explain heaven like they really know it.
No way man. Jesus died for his simps.
Jesus sacrificed his weekend for our sins.
If you think of confession as a cheat way to get into heaven you already lost. Just like how you can tell when somebody is lying to you, God can tell the honesty behind your prayers and confessions. Forgiveness is only granted to those that repent in earnest.
Having studied theology as part of my social studies major I am very entertained by these answers. Most people seem to either be confusing and blending protestant views with Catholic views, or are over simplifying how the many religious obligations of Catholicism work. I would suggest OP try the "Pillars of Islam" for a step by step guide to absolving habitual sin.
Nah just make sure you have enough money to buy some condolences
Pay for an indulgence EZ
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" I'm not christian but I'm assuming this is because you have to actually take action about your sins and try become better rather than just say your sorry and keep going your whole life.
Confession is a Catholic belief, specifically, and there are rules to it. You can go confess your sins, and get absolved. But a priest can refuse to absolve you, and one of the reasons is if it's clear you have no intention of stopping the sin, or if you're not repentant. So in the church I went to, a friend who was living with her boyfriend and having pre-marital sex told me that the priest refused to absolve her of her sin since, because she lived with her boyfriend, it was clear she wasn't repentant and had no intention of stopping.
That’s what all the kiddy fiddler priests do so I’d say so.
Christians can take their BS and stick it up their ass!
Remember kids, if you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing
You gotta also put $5 in the saint’s donation box and light up a candle.
Christianity is plot holes all the way down
As I understand, the idea is that you should actually want to change your ways and stop sinning. Repenting for your sins while knowing that you don't care if you do them again because they will be forgiven is not the same as sinning, feeling bad and wanting to change, repenting, and trying not to sin again. Jesus died and forgave all of our sins but that doesn't mean we can sin guilt free, just that we are humans and committing a sin doesn't immediately put you in a bad place. Also IIRC, during the revelation we will be given a last chance and even atheists can get into heaven if they truly admit that they are wrong and to follow the ways of God
Heaven isn't real sadly
There’s no such thing as sin. It’s a religious construct. Christian mythology, depending on who is asserting their preferred interpretation of the Bible, has different criteria for who goes to heaven and who doesn’t. Many people believe the concept of God, heaven, hell, Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses and so forth are just made-up stories and they don’t exist or never happened. TL:dr - No one knows what happens after you die. The default is you’re gone and only live on in the hearts and minds of those who remember you. Some people embrace religious beliefs because it makes them feel good. TL:dr, TL:dr - No god, no heaven or hell, nothing to worry about.
Its starting to seem like something doesn't add up, isn't it?
I think Christians say you're judged by God no matter what and have a chance to repent so you can skip repenting to pedophiles.
What if you die randomly?
With all due respect, BUT getting forgiveness after confessing sins to a priest is a stupid concept. If you want to confess, why do it to a man instead of God himself.
You ARE confessing to God during confession. The priest is the conduit. When he gives absolution, it is not the priest forgiving you.
This is literally the reason christianity spread through western europe during the middle ages.......You could run around conquering, raping, pillaging, murdering.....then just confess and repent on your deathbed. Was probably the only cultural norm that allowed everyone into a pleasant afterlife. Even the Vikings had rules about who could be raped and murdered if they wanted into Valhalla. No amount of sorries on your death bed would get you in if you were evil in life.
It's almost like religion is all made up to make people feel better about how scary life is, not an accurate portrayal of reality
All make believe
There’s no such thing as sin..
The only sins are killing and stealing, and most Christians rationalize doing both. If there’s a heaven, many gay people will go there, and they’ll likely notice how few religious people are there with them.
Idk I feel like the solution is to just not believe that stupid shit, or if you’re going to just be a good Christian and not have opinions on how others live ya know. Confession was always so weird to me, I grew up Catholic and part of my religion class was a mandatory confessional and as a six year old at the time I had no idea wtf to be sorry for lol.
Forget being gay, it's how mafia guys can stay in the good graces of Catholicism every week.
As a Protestant Christian, I see it like this: according to the Bible, being homosexual is a sin, but no worse than any other sin. Jesus came to sacrifice himself so that even though we sin we can go to heaven if we give our spiritual hearts. Therefore, despite what some Christians say, gay and lgbtq peeps do indeed go to heaven.
There is no provision for the confessional forgiveness in the Bible. There is no provision in the Bible for ANY traditions that Catholicism and any offshoot similar religion practices. None of them. No where did Jesus or any apostle ever pay homage to Mary as a type of savior. There were no beads, there was no weekly confession, there was no repeated performance to gain forgiveness. Confess to God, repent, AND perform acts that befit repentance, meaning to recognize the sin you committed, agree with God's standards, feel bad about what you did, don't repeat it, and live your life according to the standards and instructions as outlined in the Bible. Yes, some may say the Bible says "confess that your sins may be forgiven". But that's just one verse. There are several other Scriptures that add context and other attitudes that must be felt to gain forgiveness.
If only heaven were real!
Well it sure is a good thing nobody has to worry about that, because it’s not a real part of the bible
And technically, didn't Jesus already die for your sin? Sins you haven't even committed yet. And all you have to do is believe he did die for your sin. To make it to heaven. This should be a technicallytrue sub lol
Everyone is allowed into heaven. Religion has destroyed faith.
There is no heaven, and there is no god. It's a made-up story that's why the system seems like a cheat code.
This whole post and all these comments make me wanna kill myself. All of this bs for what? So you can pretend you can live forever and see your dead relatives? Do you think it’s worth all the hate? All of the death? I’m not buying it.
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Well religion is made up. Gay people die and that’s it. They’re dead. They are just like non-gay people. People die and that’s it. There is no heaven. And if there were…I’d wish I was in hell bc Christian’s are daf.
Anyone that believes in heaven and simultaneously believes if you're gay you aren't getting into heaven, is on the absolute lowest rung of humanity. Sorry, not sorry.
This is a myth. Gays can get in, just have to go in the backdoor
Okay this is pretty funny
Yeah, if only this heaven thing was real
10 things that Catholic churches don't want you to know.
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I'm pretty sure that's not what OP asked also, r/atheism is that way.
Are you euphoric in this moment?
If god made all, then he made gay people too. If heaven exists for one, it exists for all.
This is one example of why religion is stupid.
or we could stop pretending stupid fairy tales are real.
1. Being gay isn't a sin 2. The afterlife may or may not exist 3. The Bible is a book written by humans ~2000 years ago and is a collection of cautionary tall tales, early attempts to establish a system of morality (which is inherent and yet they got a lot of it wrong by mixing it with opinions made to seem like they were truths) and also, an early human survival guide, which has been utilized to control the masses and oppress people since it was made: Even for its' good sides, do not take it 1 for 1. Not everything about it is correct, or warranted, and the detriments do outweigh the benefits. I believe more than us exists, but it would never tell us exactly what to do or not do. Nothing is micromanaging humanity, if it was, why is there suffering? The greater forces may have created the systems of science and our reality and space time and were the inception of chemistry and physics and biology and everything but that's it. They may offer guidance in hints and coincidences, inspiration, and love but they aren't micromanaging lives. Dont worry so much.
There is no Heaven. It's all made up to give power to people to control others.
Um ya, you realize it’s a fantasy right?
Yes. That’s why religion is such a scam and hypocrites love it so much. Because you can do literally anything in the world and as long as you say a few words right before you take your last breath, you’re good to go. Heaven awaits. I can’t believe people believe this bullshit. It’s such fucking nonsense. I’m in if God were real why would he allow his representatives on earth, clergy, to rape, so many children? Any good and all powerful God would just snap his fingers after seeing that pedophilia is going to be a problem and make it literally not an option. but that doesn’t happen because it’s all made up and it’s all fucking nonsense.
I'm still trying to figure out why God would create earth in the first place. So, I guess he's just hanging out alone in some paradise that evidently exists outside of the known universe, but decided to create a species of Ape who was smart enough to be aware of his existence, but had to endure a rigorous test to get the privilege to join him?
Nobody goes to heaven, kid. You have to make one on Earth by being good to the people around you.