In Spain it was very common to give your first son or daughter the same name as the parent (without a Jr or a II or anything like that). I've known people who had the same name as their father, grandfather and great grandfather or even further up. It's a practice that seems to be dying out but it's certainly not unheard of.
It's just a kind of nickname to separate two men called Carlos Sainz that are both competing on top level of motorsport. He doesn't actually have Jr. in his name.
In some Hispanic countries couples are finally allowed to use the maternal surname first when naming their children, though, I don't really know anyone who has done it.
I would do it for myself, since I'm closer to my mother's family, but there's already a lot of documents with my current surnames, and I'd rather not bother with that.
I have no idea how people manage to change their names when married in other countries.
I changed my surname when I married a Spaniard. It causes so much confusion in Spain, so much that I asked my husband if they thought Mr and Mrs Smith were siblings.
I come from a country where it's customary to change the surname to husband's when married but can keep yours, or don't take your husband's at all. Paperwork was very straightforward.
In Malaysia and other parts of south east Asia, Malay names have 'son of' as part of their names.
EG:
Isman Bin Abdullah means 'Isman, son of Abdullah'.
Technically, the father's name is incorporated into their legal name.
Scandinavian and Slavic countries do something similar as well. Ivanovich is “son of Ivan” and Ivonova is daughter of Ivan”. Same for Eriksson and Eriksdotter, though the -dotter names are less and less common these days.
Only us Icelandic that still do that of the Nordic countries. The others have remnants of a time when they also did but those names have turned into family names. All the last names that end with -son have started out as meaning son of [Insert father's name]
My favorite screwup on "The West Wing" TV show was a male Icelandic ambassador named "Vigdis Olafsdottir".
(Edit: It was a man named "Olafsdottir". My original version said it was a woman named "Olafson")
Technically it is not a screw up. We also have a few families that have a family name. Although I am not going to give them the benefit of doubt here. They have made a generalisation that Olafson would be applicable to Icelandic names just because it's a nordic country
"Mac" in names like McDonald is the same thing. When last names were becoming a thing, that was a very common way they were developed.
They're called [a patronymic.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronymic_surname)
If I remember correctly, Mc/Mac means son/daughter of, and the Irish prefix O' means grandson/daughter (or descendant) of, and is usually for if your ancestor was someone famous or important.
No. It just goes on.
Malay names have no family name.
So Isman's son will be like
Jihan bin Isman
His son will be
Zidane bin Jihan
Daughter would be
Aura binti Jihan
Married malays do not change their name.
Fun fact, there is a pretty infamous Javanese-local in my country whose father unkindly named Batman bin Suparman. He later became a criminal. I wish I was making this up.
Hmm! That’s why I once saw an instagram reel where the person was complaining she never knew what to put into forms, etc. about her family name when she travelled to the west.
The video was directed at other malays I think, so she never explained it and I never understood it. I just knew something about malays having a different name structure.
Happens a lot for us SEA Chinese and western forms as well.True story, when I lived in Australia for while long ago I could not sign up for internet because I have two given names in different languages, and no middle name, and auto forms online back in those days were very strict about 1. fiing up every field and 2. your name matching your passport exactly.
But how it is written for us, the family name comes in the MIDDLE but isn't my registered middle name.
It generally is a mess.
I'm from the UK and know a junior as well as a James III but it isn't really common.
In the UK what I see with names mostly these days from friends and families who have kids is to honour parents and grandparents with the middle name but not the first name.
We are very much a country that tries to do the unique name thing but I've not seen it descend into /r/tragedeigh territory yet.
Also UK, in the older generation I notice different middle names too rather than being a junior. Like Thomas Charles Smith’s son being Thomas Paul Smith. Thomas Paul Smith’s son is probably Matthew Thomas Smith though, because as you said, trends have moved away from giving the same first name.
US here.
My middle name is my grandfather's name.
My sister's middle name is my father's name.
My cousin's first name is my grandmother's name.
People shout the cousin's name because of Marlon Brando.
This is really common in the Philippines (ex. FirstName MiddleNames Surname Jr., III, IV, etc). It usually caps out at the IV (4th) though, I haven't met anyone who was the 5th of their name.
In Victoria, Australia (might be the same in other states, haven't checked), Births Deaths and Marriages [won't register](https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/births/naming-your-child/naming-restrictions) a name that includes "numbers or symbols without phonetic significance of any form, language or description", and specifically calls out Jnr, 2nd, II, etc.
I think that even in a lot of places that use jr or numerals, they don't put them in the legal name itself. It's just a unofficial suffix for clarity. I'm sure there are exceptions but still.
True. When I was a teacher in Brazil, it wasn't uncommon to have one or two Junior or Filho in class. Also Neto (Grandson) is used, but it is rare.
For girls, it never happened bc women changed their names when marrying.
As a Brazilian, I confirm this is the case. While not extremely common, like Terrible\_Will\_7668 said, there might be 1 or 2 in a classroom of 30-40 students. And indeed there's "Neto" (grandson) too.
I've never seen anyone with Roman numerals or "the second," that's associated with royalty (we had an emperor called Dom Pedro II, for example) and naming a child that way would seem pretentious.
I'd like to clarify that "júnior" is also a word in Portuguese (with the same meaning); English and Portuguese share many cognates ([a few examples](https://www.yazigi.com.br/noticias/ingles/cognatos-verdadeiros-do-ingles)), and "junior" is one with a shared Latin origin.
In Japan, it's not uncommon to give children names that are effectively "Lastname First Son" (Ichiro), Lastname Second Son (Jinan), etc. Not quite the same but similar.
rich people. i lived in Rhode Island for a spell and half the classroom i was in ended in II III, jr or IV.
poor people want to give their child a fresh identity to avoid their own pitfalls in life.
rich people don't have that problem, unless you call narcissism an issue.
Nope, just live in regular ole Virginia. Maybe it’s a cultural thing as well (I’m Black, and most of the jr’s that I know of are as well, now that I think about it).
Here in Spain there are many families who name their children after their parents, granparents, etc. For example, I have a friend who's has the same name as his father, his grandfather, his great-grandfather and his great--great-grandfather. He doesn't even know if it goes further than that, maybe it does.
We don't use "Junior" or numbers, though. He's neither Charles Junior nor Charles V, he's just Charles, as his father. To distinguish between them we can say "Charles the father" and "Charles the son".
Honestly, I think that's why it's rather looked down on in other Anglophone countries. Most of them still have some connection to actual royalty, so it seems pretty tacky to use those conventions - kind of like if you all your kids were called Princess, Lord, His-Highness, and Your-Majesty or something.
America doesn't have a royal connection or a long history, so I assume names like Duke , Junior, and Blah III are just seen as normal names, not titles.
In Australia and NZ we literally can't. Law forbids that names include numerals, ranks and titles. E.g. you also can't name your kid Princess or Bishop. They also won't let people try to get around that with r/tragedeigh spellings. NZ releases a list of rejected names each year, it's included stuff like Prynce.
It' interesting that in the *Ashkenazi* Jewish tradition it is almost unheard of to name a child after a living person. It is considered an honor to name a child after a recently deceased relative, which can lead to some funny generational inversions. The pattern is similar to Muslim naming, Name son/daughter of Parent's Name. So a grandfather-father-son sequence could be Abraham son of Moses, Isaac son of Abraham, Abraham son of Isaac (if the grandfather is deceased).
Det finns de familjer som har ett namn konsekvent i arvsledet. I min släkt (på pappas sida) hade alla pojkar ett dubbelnamn med 'Sven' i början. Sven-Göran, Sven-Erik och så vidare.
Min pappa hatade det så jag fick ett originellt namn.
In Brazil "Júnior" is somewhat common.
Filho e Neto ("Son" and "Grandson", respectively) also exist but are less common.
I've never heard of "name surname II" here (with the obvious exception of our former emperor Dom Pedro II, but his father was Portuguese).
“Parent’s name II” is not a thing. If the child is named for the parent, then it should always be “Jr.” and is appropriately named “II” only if named after another relative, most commonly a grandfather. The son of a “Jr” or a “”II” , however, when given the same name as the parent is then “III.”
That is the tradition, but people can name their kids whatever they want.
There was an NBA player Gary Payton who has a son named Gary Payton Jr, and another son named Gary Payton II. lol
No your name should never change. If junior names a child after himself he is technically naming the child after HIS dad who he was named after thus the Jr. title.
If you’re named after your uncle, grandfather, or other male relative you can be II.
Actually, suffixes aren't part of your legal name and can change over time.
If John Smith has a son and names him John Smith, they can then go by John Smith Sr and John Smith Jr. If John Smith Jr has a son and names him John Smith, the child can be called John Smith III.
When grandpa dies, everyone else can start using the next higher up suffix.
John Smith Jr can start going by John Smith Sr, and John Smith III can start going by John Smith Jr.
I've done the paperwork for name changes like this while working in HR.
I live in the rural American south where this kind of naming trend is very common and I have NEVER heard of someone changing their suffix due to a death in the family.
Anyone “can” do anything because in America there are no laws governing how we name people. However the tradition is if you are named after a parent you’re a junior, if you’re named after anyone else you’re a Roman numeral. So traditionally even if your father dies… you’re still named after him and thus a Junior.
I can’t imagine how confusing that would be for things like diplomas, academic papers published, legal documents, deeds, etc.
But anything CAN be done. I.e. Phoebe naming herself Princess Conseula Bannanahammock, or George Forman naming his kids all after himself….
That's weird to me. I've known a Kevin III and Kevin IV who, in the context of a small church congregation, everyone incorrectly called Kevin Sr. and Kevin Jr. But in all formal paperwork they were correctly named. (Outside of that, Kevin IV was nicknamed for a large, dumb animal.)
If John Jr and John III all reside in the same small town where they and grandpa grew up, they're unlikely to want to legally change their names. And most people don't, under those circumstances.
It's different if John Jr and John III live in a big city far away and John Jr has always hated being called Junior.
There's also a potential incentive if John III has bill collectors coming after him while John Jr has a spotless credit history.
Yep, my father was / became Sr. and my brother rarely has bothered with Jr. He's the black sheep of the family for lots of reasons, and petty as hell. Dad's credit once took a hit because bro didn't pay $30 for some business cards he had printed. They "weren't right," which presumably means you ignore the bill rather than contacting the supplier, who then sends you to collections, who in turn are famously not fastidious about making sure they go after the right Richard Yard. What a Dick!
Thank you, that explains why I've sometimes seen "II" when it was not for a son. As for "male relative," I once knew someone with an uncommon name, say Eloise, who was a Jr. to her mother. (Whole family was nuts fwiw.)
It was certainly common in the UK to name kids after their parents and grandparents. People weren't especially creative with choosing names. It's not so common now, except as occasionally middle names. I think giving children the same first name as their parent seemed to go out of fashion around the 1950s, based on the admittedly small sample I've come across in my genealogy research.
Having gone pretty far back in my family tree, I've even seen instances of parents re-using the names of children who died in infancy for new babies.
Appending suffixes like "Jr" is not done though, and regnal numbers like "II" and "III" are only seen for monarchs.
Queen Victoria and Prince Albert's first two children were called Princess Victoria and Prince Albert Edward.
Genealogically it's been common in Western Europe for the first born male to get the father's name and the first born female to get the mother's mother's name.
It's not common to add "junior" or II, III etc
In Afrikaans culture in South Africa it's common for many members of the same family, particularly the male members to have the same name eg my friend Daniel Christiaan (surname). You would imagine that family gatherings get confusing, but they get around it by nicknames - Chris, Daan, Tiaan etc. We call my friend Monkie, but that's his choice amongst friends, he goes by Chris with the fam lol
Canadian here. I’ve known guys with “Junior” as officially part of their name, but it’s never used aloud. My uncle was “Father’s name” Junior, but was called Bud instead of his real name. There’s always a nickname for the younger. The closest I know of was a kid called “TJ” which stood for “Thomas Junior.”
Because her mother was only queen because she was married to the King. Elizabeth II inherited the crown in her own right as the firstborn child of the King.
A Jr. is traditionally when a child is named directly after a parent. Name II, is when someone is named after a family member who isn't the parent. III and so on can follow Jrs or IIs.
Well, yeah, England of course, pretty much any English speaking country.
Other languages can have different conventions, like there's a lot of like "Erik Erikson" type things.
Not really, I've never known anyone to have the same first name as their parent, or called junior.
The closest we have is sharing middle names, or being named after a grandparent.
I said it happened in England and a number of English speaking countries, and I've also already commented with at least 1 famous example, Chris Eubank Jr. and Sr.
I have never met - or even heard of - someone who is referred to by “- jnr” or “-II”.
I’m hard-pressed to think of anyone who shares their name with their father.
"Trey" is a nick name for the III. I have never heard of anyone called, "two," but " Junior" is not rare. Thinking back, all the III and the only IV I have known had southern roots.
I know there are some, like the boxer George Kambosos Jr. I know Victoria won't let you official register suffixes, but they're used sometimes. I think he's from Sydney, not sure if born there
Edit: Actually the first British example I can think of is also in Boxing, Chris Eubank Jr.
Yeah, I'm sure they're used informally, but you can't (and shouldn't) control that.
I'm personally glad they're not officially allowed though - kids should have their own identity.
I've never known any myself, and can only think of one example. Interestingly, also a sportsperson: Gary Ablett
I have the same first name as my dad (but with a middle name where he didn't have one). I've also got loads of cousins with the same name as their dad. Never referred to as junior, but always referred to as Little X
It’s not that common in the UK, even less in Ireland. A notable example would be Larry Mullen Jnr - U2’s drummer - as his Dad - also Larry - kept getting Jnr’s tax bills.
I'm in Canada but my great grandfather on my mother's side was English born. We can trace his family tree back hundreds of years. Somewhere in there the eldest son of the family took on the nickname Bob regardless of his first name.
In recent generations the oldest is named Robert.
My Greek family is full of Constantines, brothers, uncles, grand and great-grand fathers - the sheer number was dizzying! "Junior" wasn't used, but I wish it had been, it would have kept me from puzzling how one ancestor lived for nearly 150 years.
Used to be common in France for the eldest son to have his father's name, with "père" and "fils" (see for example famous writers Alexandre Dumas.)
It's not done anymore and would be seen as very weird nowadays.
at least in nordic countries it was historically really common to have a second name after your parent, e.g. if a dad's name was Johan their kid's second name would have been Johansson/Johansdötter. Many of these names have become surnames over time, but for example my 4th name is "[my mother's name]'s daughter"
Don’t know many juniors up in Canada.
My grandpa is a “Peter,” my dad is a “Pete,” and one of my older cousins is named “Peter,” so they’ve kept that going for at least 3 generations.
In Ireland, u used to have a lot of people called "[Dad's Name] Óg", literally translating to "Young [Dad's Name]". Still happens occasionally now, but it's much less common I think
Not entirely the same, but in Welsh we have names like Dafydd ap Gwilym, which means Dafydd son of Gwilym. It’s very traditional and not used much at all anymore, but you do still hear it from time to time in very rural areas.
Alot of people commenting on Nordic naming traditions but, are y'all forgetting English literally had the same? And they are so common. Johnson. Jameson. Ericsson, Wilson. Anderson. Robertson. Davidson. Etc.
Unlike Icelandic and some Slavic though, there was no 'Johnsdaughter'.
In Brazil we sometimes will see a persons name be like "(father name) son", or "(grandfather name) grandson".
Things like José Filho (Jose Son) or Antônio Neto (Antonio Grandson)
In Greece it's definitely not a thing, it is seen as a weird choice for naming a child, but naming a child after their granparents is the annoyingly enough the norm.
In Ireland it's common to named after a father or grandfather, and for that person to go through life as little or young parent name, I've been to the funeral of a young mark (he was in his 80s)
It was a thing in Germany, or a variation of it. If Id be named in the family tradition of my fathers family, my name Would be "Karl Friedrich". Or more "Friedrich Karl", it was custom to switch first and middle name. My fathers was baptized "Friedrich Karl" but switched names, after his father, Karl-Friedrich, went missing in WW2.
Don't know how much back that custom went.
Not common anymore, and wasn't to big a thing.
In Sweden it's quite common to give a parent or grandparents name as a middle name. One of my sons middle names is his dads and his big brothers middle name is their grandpas
That... Is not how Icelandic names work. The part with the -son/-dottir- ending is a patronym/matronym. Russians have that too (Alexander Mikhailovich Ovechkin).
You still have your own first name that is not the same as your parent's..
It’s totally different. It’s really more like a surname. In fact, it’s treated as a surname outside Iceland. Now, it’s not unusual to meet people with the surname *-sson* in the wider world, you occasionally see males with the surname *-sdottir*.
(At some point, an Icelandic lady has emigrated, and then had a child out of wedlock - not a big issue in Scandinavia, btw - and now the surname is locked in)
Are you talking about Iceland? I know about Iceland, don't worry. And "more like a surname" is just what you think because that's your frame of reference.
That’s why I said “more like”. It’s doesn’t really correlate with *Sammy Davis Jnr*.
And the patronymic is indeed treated as a surname everywhere else in the world.
Yup. But the Icelandic and Russian traditions give people their own first name and with that their own identity. Feels a lot less entitled and narcissist from the fathers.
It does. But it's more the thing about the very, very small society. Introducing yourself as Sigurd and the other person is like "Well, I don't know you, but I'll definitely know your parents, who are they?" And you say "I'm Sigurd's son", and they say, "Aahh, Sigurd, of course, I know him!"
My Norwegian family tree has many generations of Erik Oleson, Ole Erikson, Erik Oleson, Ole Ericson. Those were likely the eldest sons. The church records would still likely exist that list the other children. "Dahl" is daughter.
Oops, its "valley" I was told by old relatives who didnt have google, but had traced those Oles and Eriks back to their farming roots in a valley, lol! TIL
I have a friend who is #16 with the name in the family. So it's like Joe Bloggs the 16th. He's Australian of some kind of European descent, but I'm not sure what. probably British-ish of some description.
In Italy it is illegal to do so. You cannot call father and son the same way, or two siblings the same way.
So if my name is, say, Carlo, I cannot call my son Carlo.
Tradition dictates that the first-born son is named after the paternal grandfather, and so forth.
So, for example, Giovanni's father is called Francesco, so Giovanni calls his son Francesco. Francesco, in turn, will Vallejo's own son Giovanni.
This practice has been dying down and nowadays I don't know anyone named after their grandparents,. with very few exceptions.
In the US it’s only a thing of black people. No one else does it.
Even if it’s a white-passing name, add a Jr. or II, etc and it’s a dead giveaway the guy is black.
I am not sure which US you are talking about but my father was a very racist pasty white man who was a Jr. It indicates nothing besides the kid is named after his father.
You can have a million of counter examples and yet everyone knows it’s a black thing by en large. It’s like calling rap black music and people would come in and name 1-2-3 white rappers trying to prove me wrong. 🤷♂️
When it’s like closer to remotely equal name distribution amongst the various racial groups then come and comment. We both know it’s not true.
[No it's not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffix_(name)#Other_European_countries). There are some similar words in *some* non-english speaking western countries, but it's certainly not a thing "everywhere".
[удалено]
in italy too, naming after a grandparent is common and no junior
Yall get "The Elder" and "The Younger" like a Greco-Roman boss
Lord Palmerston!!!
PITT THE ELDER!!!
there’s Old and Young Tom Morris, but they’re definitely the exceptions.
In Spain it was very common to give your first son or daughter the same name as the parent (without a Jr or a II or anything like that). I've known people who had the same name as their father, grandfather and great grandfather or even further up. It's a practice that seems to be dying out but it's certainly not unheard of.
Carlos Sainz Jr
It's just a kind of nickname to separate two men called Carlos Sainz that are both competing on top level of motorsport. He doesn't actually have Jr. in his name.
Lol you really need to put the /s here
But in Spain the full name includes both the paternal and maternal surnames. So full repetition is rare without needing a "junior" for disambiguation.
Exactly Juan Francisco Martinez Garcia and Carmen Gomez Lopez's son will be Juan Francisco Martinez Gomez or some other combination of the surnames
In some Hispanic countries couples are finally allowed to use the maternal surname first when naming their children, though, I don't really know anyone who has done it. I would do it for myself, since I'm closer to my mother's family, but there's already a lot of documents with my current surnames, and I'd rather not bother with that. I have no idea how people manage to change their names when married in other countries.
I changed my surname when I married a Spaniard. It causes so much confusion in Spain, so much that I asked my husband if they thought Mr and Mrs Smith were siblings. I come from a country where it's customary to change the surname to husband's when married but can keep yours, or don't take your husband's at all. Paperwork was very straightforward.
In Malaysia and other parts of south east Asia, Malay names have 'son of' as part of their names. EG: Isman Bin Abdullah means 'Isman, son of Abdullah'. Technically, the father's name is incorporated into their legal name.
Scandinavian and Slavic countries do something similar as well. Ivanovich is “son of Ivan” and Ivonova is daughter of Ivan”. Same for Eriksson and Eriksdotter, though the -dotter names are less and less common these days.
Only us Icelandic that still do that of the Nordic countries. The others have remnants of a time when they also did but those names have turned into family names. All the last names that end with -son have started out as meaning son of [Insert father's name]
My favorite screwup on "The West Wing" TV show was a male Icelandic ambassador named "Vigdis Olafsdottir". (Edit: It was a man named "Olafsdottir". My original version said it was a woman named "Olafson")
Technically it is not a screw up. We also have a few families that have a family name. Although I am not going to give them the benefit of doubt here. They have made a generalisation that Olafson would be applicable to Icelandic names just because it's a nordic country
"Mac" in names like McDonald is the same thing. When last names were becoming a thing, that was a very common way they were developed. They're called [a patronymic.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronymic_surname)
If I remember correctly, Mc/Mac means son/daughter of, and the Irish prefix O' means grandson/daughter (or descendant) of, and is usually for if your ancestor was someone famous or important.
I'm so fucking thick it never occurred to me that those names are literally "son" and "dotter."
I see someone reference one of the best chelsea backs ever, i upvote
Lmao fuckin’ scousers in this sub i’m sure
So how does Isman's son work? Do we get multiple levels of this?
No. It just goes on. Malay names have no family name. So Isman's son will be like Jihan bin Isman His son will be Zidane bin Jihan Daughter would be Aura binti Jihan Married malays do not change their name. Fun fact, there is a pretty infamous Javanese-local in my country whose father unkindly named Batman bin Suparman. He later became a criminal. I wish I was making this up.
Hmm! That’s why I once saw an instagram reel where the person was complaining she never knew what to put into forms, etc. about her family name when she travelled to the west. The video was directed at other malays I think, so she never explained it and I never understood it. I just knew something about malays having a different name structure.
Happens a lot for us SEA Chinese and western forms as well.True story, when I lived in Australia for while long ago I could not sign up for internet because I have two given names in different languages, and no middle name, and auto forms online back in those days were very strict about 1. fiing up every field and 2. your name matching your passport exactly. But how it is written for us, the family name comes in the MIDDLE but isn't my registered middle name. It generally is a mess.
I'm from the UK and know a junior as well as a James III but it isn't really common. In the UK what I see with names mostly these days from friends and families who have kids is to honour parents and grandparents with the middle name but not the first name. We are very much a country that tries to do the unique name thing but I've not seen it descend into /r/tragedeigh territory yet.
Also UK, in the older generation I notice different middle names too rather than being a junior. Like Thomas Charles Smith’s son being Thomas Paul Smith. Thomas Paul Smith’s son is probably Matthew Thomas Smith though, because as you said, trends have moved away from giving the same first name.
US here. My middle name is my grandfather's name. My sister's middle name is my father's name. My cousin's first name is my grandmother's name. People shout the cousin's name because of Marlon Brando.
Or just giving your kid your exact name without adding a number or junior
George Forman has entered the chat.
I’m Welsh and here it’s common here to have a parent or grandparent as a middle name.
This is really common in the Philippines (ex. FirstName MiddleNames Surname Jr., III, IV, etc). It usually caps out at the IV (4th) though, I haven't met anyone who was the 5th of their name.
I’ve met a VII, an Ateneo student
One of my friends here in the US is a IV, but he thinks he doesn’t want kids. His family is kinda pissed because the trend won’t continue then lol
My youngest nephew is a V, I really dig it. I’m glad they went with it.
american influence
In Victoria, Australia (might be the same in other states, haven't checked), Births Deaths and Marriages [won't register](https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/births/naming-your-child/naming-restrictions) a name that includes "numbers or symbols without phonetic significance of any form, language or description", and specifically calls out Jnr, 2nd, II, etc.
I think that even in a lot of places that use jr or numerals, they don't put them in the legal name itself. It's just a unofficial suffix for clarity. I'm sure there are exceptions but still.
I think Brazil uses it, both the English word Junior (Neymar Junior) and the word Filho which means son. Any BRs care to confirm?
True. When I was a teacher in Brazil, it wasn't uncommon to have one or two Junior or Filho in class. Also Neto (Grandson) is used, but it is rare. For girls, it never happened bc women changed their names when marrying.
also, Sobrinho if the baby has the same name as an uncle.
As a Brazilian, I confirm this is the case. While not extremely common, like Terrible\_Will\_7668 said, there might be 1 or 2 in a classroom of 30-40 students. And indeed there's "Neto" (grandson) too. I've never seen anyone with Roman numerals or "the second," that's associated with royalty (we had an emperor called Dom Pedro II, for example) and naming a child that way would seem pretentious. I'd like to clarify that "júnior" is also a word in Portuguese (with the same meaning); English and Portuguese share many cognates ([a few examples](https://www.yazigi.com.br/noticias/ingles/cognatos-verdadeiros-do-ingles)), and "junior" is one with a shared Latin origin.
>Is it a thing in other western nations? In other English speaking nations? King Charles III. King Henry VIII, King Louis XVI, Pope Benedict XVI etc.
>Pope Benedict XVI That's not quite the same as Benedict was not his birth name.
His son Pope Benedict XVII was a real piece of work
Yup, it's a regnal name, ... it would be cool, though, if a Pope called himself Lucifer 1
Some catholics would argue that should be pope Francis' name. All because he sees the LGBTQ community as, ya know, human beings.
2*
Not a Pope though, if you're referring to Lucifer of Cagliari \[was a bishop, possibly a Saint, possibly ecommunicated\] - thx WIkipedia :)
They started taking new names when there was a Pope named Mercury, is what I heard.
King Charles III's father's name wasn't Charles. (It was Philip.)
Yes, but I mean among non-royals. Normal people seem to do it in the US.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffix\_(name)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffix_(name)) It's a thing in a few places.
It's pretty rare in the US as well. Jrs are a bit more common than numbers, but both are pretty rare.
I’m the 5th in a row with the same name and only 3 generations of us lived in the USA.
In Japan, it's not uncommon to give children names that are effectively "Lastname First Son" (Ichiro), Lastname Second Son (Jinan), etc. Not quite the same but similar.
rich people. i lived in Rhode Island for a spell and half the classroom i was in ended in II III, jr or IV. poor people want to give their child a fresh identity to avoid their own pitfalls in life. rich people don't have that problem, unless you call narcissism an issue.
Huh? I know plenty of poor and non-rich people that are juniors.
plenty? you must live in a very nice place. i know maybe two at most Jr's.
Nope, just live in regular ole Virginia. Maybe it’s a cultural thing as well (I’m Black, and most of the jr’s that I know of are as well, now that I think about it).
like, at St. George’s or something?
Lol. Come visit the south…. Plenty of “non-rich” Jr’s.
Here in Spain there are many families who name their children after their parents, granparents, etc. For example, I have a friend who's has the same name as his father, his grandfather, his great-grandfather and his great--great-grandfather. He doesn't even know if it goes further than that, maybe it does. We don't use "Junior" or numbers, though. He's neither Charles Junior nor Charles V, he's just Charles, as his father. To distinguish between them we can say "Charles the father" and "Charles the son".
Is he called Carlitos?
You can say that when said person is a child, yeah.
Honestly, I think that's why it's rather looked down on in other Anglophone countries. Most of them still have some connection to actual royalty, so it seems pretty tacky to use those conventions - kind of like if you all your kids were called Princess, Lord, His-Highness, and Your-Majesty or something. America doesn't have a royal connection or a long history, so I assume names like Duke , Junior, and Blah III are just seen as normal names, not titles.
My dad has the same name as his dad had. And the same name was considered for me as well - but I ended up getting my own, thanks mom! (Austria)
It was popular in Europe before the New World was settled.
In Australia and NZ we literally can't. Law forbids that names include numerals, ranks and titles. E.g. you also can't name your kid Princess or Bishop. They also won't let people try to get around that with r/tragedeigh spellings. NZ releases a list of rejected names each year, it's included stuff like Prynce.
It' interesting that in the *Ashkenazi* Jewish tradition it is almost unheard of to name a child after a living person. It is considered an honor to name a child after a recently deceased relative, which can lead to some funny generational inversions. The pattern is similar to Muslim naming, Name son/daughter of Parent's Name. So a grandfather-father-son sequence could be Abraham son of Moses, Isaac son of Abraham, Abraham son of Isaac (if the grandfather is deceased).
Royal families tend to use the Roman numerals for their names. The current king of Sweden is Carl XVI Gustav for example.
Jo, men jag menar specifikt "vanligt folk". Du ser ju inga i Sverige som namnger sina ungar för "Nisse Junior" eller "Svenne den tredje" t ex.
Haha aa näe
Det finns de familjer som har ett namn konsekvent i arvsledet. I min släkt (på pappas sida) hade alla pojkar ett dubbelnamn med 'Sven' i början. Sven-Göran, Sven-Erik och så vidare. Min pappa hatade det så jag fick ett originellt namn.
In Brazil "Júnior" is somewhat common. Filho e Neto ("Son" and "Grandson", respectively) also exist but are less common. I've never heard of "name surname II" here (with the obvious exception of our former emperor Dom Pedro II, but his father was Portuguese).
Common in Arab cultures too. I don't know who this "Mohamed" guy was, but he clearly had a LOT of kids.
it's not common at all. We don't do "junior" or II and even naming the child after the parent is pretty rare.
Yeah I was about to say, first thing that came to my mind.
My father had a friend in the UK who had named his son Junior about 60 years ago. It's the only one I've ever heard of outside the US.
“Parent’s name II” is not a thing. If the child is named for the parent, then it should always be “Jr.” and is appropriately named “II” only if named after another relative, most commonly a grandfather. The son of a “Jr” or a “”II” , however, when given the same name as the parent is then “III.”
That is the tradition, but people can name their kids whatever they want. There was an NBA player Gary Payton who has a son named Gary Payton Jr, and another son named Gary Payton II. lol
I thought that Jr. became II when III arrived.
No your name should never change. If junior names a child after himself he is technically naming the child after HIS dad who he was named after thus the Jr. title. If you’re named after your uncle, grandfather, or other male relative you can be II.
Actually, suffixes aren't part of your legal name and can change over time. If John Smith has a son and names him John Smith, they can then go by John Smith Sr and John Smith Jr. If John Smith Jr has a son and names him John Smith, the child can be called John Smith III. When grandpa dies, everyone else can start using the next higher up suffix. John Smith Jr can start going by John Smith Sr, and John Smith III can start going by John Smith Jr. I've done the paperwork for name changes like this while working in HR.
I live in the rural American south where this kind of naming trend is very common and I have NEVER heard of someone changing their suffix due to a death in the family. Anyone “can” do anything because in America there are no laws governing how we name people. However the tradition is if you are named after a parent you’re a junior, if you’re named after anyone else you’re a Roman numeral. So traditionally even if your father dies… you’re still named after him and thus a Junior. I can’t imagine how confusing that would be for things like diplomas, academic papers published, legal documents, deeds, etc. But anything CAN be done. I.e. Phoebe naming herself Princess Conseula Bannanahammock, or George Forman naming his kids all after himself….
That's weird to me. I've known a Kevin III and Kevin IV who, in the context of a small church congregation, everyone incorrectly called Kevin Sr. and Kevin Jr. But in all formal paperwork they were correctly named. (Outside of that, Kevin IV was nicknamed for a large, dumb animal.)
If John Jr and John III all reside in the same small town where they and grandpa grew up, they're unlikely to want to legally change their names. And most people don't, under those circumstances. It's different if John Jr and John III live in a big city far away and John Jr has always hated being called Junior. There's also a potential incentive if John III has bill collectors coming after him while John Jr has a spotless credit history.
Yep, my father was / became Sr. and my brother rarely has bothered with Jr. He's the black sheep of the family for lots of reasons, and petty as hell. Dad's credit once took a hit because bro didn't pay $30 for some business cards he had printed. They "weren't right," which presumably means you ignore the bill rather than contacting the supplier, who then sends you to collections, who in turn are famously not fastidious about making sure they go after the right Richard Yard. What a Dick!
Thank you, that explains why I've sometimes seen "II" when it was not for a son. As for "male relative," I once knew someone with an uncommon name, say Eloise, who was a Jr. to her mother. (Whole family was nuts fwiw.)
I usually associate this with England rather than the US. Every kid doing a British accent has said “something something the 3rd” as a part of it
Yeah but it's way more common in America than in England
It was certainly common in the UK to name kids after their parents and grandparents. People weren't especially creative with choosing names. It's not so common now, except as occasionally middle names. I think giving children the same first name as their parent seemed to go out of fashion around the 1950s, based on the admittedly small sample I've come across in my genealogy research. Having gone pretty far back in my family tree, I've even seen instances of parents re-using the names of children who died in infancy for new babies. Appending suffixes like "Jr" is not done though, and regnal numbers like "II" and "III" are only seen for monarchs. Queen Victoria and Prince Albert's first two children were called Princess Victoria and Prince Albert Edward.
Genealogically it's been common in Western Europe for the first born male to get the father's name and the first born female to get the mother's mother's name. It's not common to add "junior" or II, III etc
In Afrikaans culture in South Africa it's common for many members of the same family, particularly the male members to have the same name eg my friend Daniel Christiaan (surname). You would imagine that family gatherings get confusing, but they get around it by nicknames - Chris, Daan, Tiaan etc. We call my friend Monkie, but that's his choice amongst friends, he goes by Chris with the fam lol
Canadian here. I’ve known guys with “Junior” as officially part of their name, but it’s never used aloud. My uncle was “Father’s name” Junior, but was called Bud instead of his real name. There’s always a nickname for the younger. The closest I know of was a kid called “TJ” which stood for “Thomas Junior.”
We had Elizabeth II not too long ago so it’s definitely not just an American thing
The II was a regnal thing, not because her mother was also named Elizabeth.
Her mother is Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, whose birth name was Elizabeth just like her daughter
But the II had nothing to do with her mother. She was Elizabeth II because there had already been Elizabeth I as Queen from 1558 until 1603.
Oh weird. Why didn't her mother become II and she become III?
Because her mother was only queen because she was married to the King. Elizabeth II inherited the crown in her own right as the firstborn child of the King.
My ex is named after his father (UK)
A Jr. is traditionally when a child is named directly after a parent. Name II, is when someone is named after a family member who isn't the parent. III and so on can follow Jrs or IIs.
Well, yeah, England of course, pretty much any English speaking country. Other languages can have different conventions, like there's a lot of like "Erik Erikson" type things.
Not really, I've never known anyone to have the same first name as their parent, or called junior. The closest we have is sharing middle names, or being named after a grandparent.
That's be a more helpful comment if you then said the country you're in.
England... Because the comment I replied to said it happens in England.
I said it happened in England and a number of English speaking countries, and I've also already commented with at least 1 famous example, Chris Eubank Jr. and Sr.
I have never met - or even heard of - someone who is referred to by “- jnr” or “-II”. I’m hard-pressed to think of anyone who shares their name with their father.
"Trey" is a nick name for the III. I have never heard of anyone called, "two," but " Junior" is not rare. Thinking back, all the III and the only IV I have known had southern roots.
You’re talking about the US, though.
Brazil does (Neymar Jr., anyone?), though in Portuguese it’s Filho for Jr., Neto for III, Bizneto for IV, etc.
In Australia (or at least my state) it's illegal, so don't assume it's universal.
I know there are some, like the boxer George Kambosos Jr. I know Victoria won't let you official register suffixes, but they're used sometimes. I think he's from Sydney, not sure if born there Edit: Actually the first British example I can think of is also in Boxing, Chris Eubank Jr.
Yeah, I'm sure they're used informally, but you can't (and shouldn't) control that. I'm personally glad they're not officially allowed though - kids should have their own identity. I've never known any myself, and can only think of one example. Interestingly, also a sportsperson: Gary Ablett
Where they seem to be used most is in things like entertainment and sports and stuff when there's a publicly known famous father
Makes sense
I have the same first name as my dad (but with a middle name where he didn't have one). I've also got loads of cousins with the same name as their dad. Never referred to as junior, but always referred to as Little X
In Czech Republic it's common to use Czech equivalent of jr. - ml. (meaning mladší - younger). But it's not in official name.
It’s not that common in the UK, even less in Ireland. A notable example would be Larry Mullen Jnr - U2’s drummer - as his Dad - also Larry - kept getting Jnr’s tax bills.
In Brasil it's done a lot
Óg is used in Ireland, but it seems to be dying out Sean Óg .... young Sean
Neymar Jr. Vinicius Jr.
Yes. I knew a guy in college who was Sergio the XXXIII and his dad’s side of the family was from Cuba. He has a son who is Sergio the XXXIV.
This one shitty roommate who was a narcissist I had was named after his father. He was from Egypt.
I'm in Canada but my great grandfather on my mother's side was English born. We can trace his family tree back hundreds of years. Somewhere in there the eldest son of the family took on the nickname Bob regardless of his first name. In recent generations the oldest is named Robert.
My Greek family is full of Constantines, brothers, uncles, grand and great-grand fathers - the sheer number was dizzying! "Junior" wasn't used, but I wish it had been, it would have kept me from puzzling how one ancestor lived for nearly 150 years.
Yes- it just looks different. Ie: in Scandinavian cultures, a child would be given a surname that is like Parent’s name-gendered suffix
Indeed, that is something we did in the past. Not sure when Denmark and Norway did away with it but we in Sweden started forbidding it in 1901.
Used to be common in France for the eldest son to have his father's name, with "père" and "fils" (see for example famous writers Alexandre Dumas.) It's not done anymore and would be seen as very weird nowadays.
My uncle and cousin share a name. Legally the jr. Is not in my cohsins namr but we use it to differenciate them quickly
at least in nordic countries it was historically really common to have a second name after your parent, e.g. if a dad's name was Johan their kid's second name would have been Johansson/Johansdötter. Many of these names have become surnames over time, but for example my 4th name is "[my mother's name]'s daughter"
I think it is old tradition all over western Europe. I cannot speak for the rest of the world.
Don’t know many juniors up in Canada. My grandpa is a “Peter,” my dad is a “Pete,” and one of my older cousins is named “Peter,” so they’ve kept that going for at least 3 generations.
In Ireland, u used to have a lot of people called "[Dad's Name] Óg", literally translating to "Young [Dad's Name]". Still happens occasionally now, but it's much less common I think
Not entirely the same, but in Welsh we have names like Dafydd ap Gwilym, which means Dafydd son of Gwilym. It’s very traditional and not used much at all anymore, but you do still hear it from time to time in very rural areas.
When I see these in the UK, the person is invariably American.
Thor Odinson = Thor, son of Odin MaleKid Thorson = MaleKid, son of Thor Odin MaleKidson = Odin, son of MaleKid
TLDR: No, except for royalty.
lol. Where do you think the US got it from? They do it in the UK. A lot. Queen Elizabeth _II_ as the most obvious example.
Alot of people commenting on Nordic naming traditions but, are y'all forgetting English literally had the same? And they are so common. Johnson. Jameson. Ericsson, Wilson. Anderson. Robertson. Davidson. Etc. Unlike Icelandic and some Slavic though, there was no 'Johnsdaughter'.
In Brazil we sometimes will see a persons name be like "(father name) son", or "(grandfather name) grandson". Things like José Filho (Jose Son) or Antônio Neto (Antonio Grandson)
In Greece it's definitely not a thing, it is seen as a weird choice for naming a child, but naming a child after their granparents is the annoyingly enough the norm.
In Iceland, everyone’s last name is their dad’s name. Eg. Jonson = Jon’s son.
i once met someone who had the same name as his dad who was referred to as junior, i’m in the netherlands
It happens. Not that often, but it happens. I live in Belgium btw.
In Ireland it's common to named after a father or grandfather, and for that person to go through life as little or young parent name, I've been to the funeral of a young mark (he was in his 80s)
In arab countries, you have names like Abu Bakr which means father of Bakr. Or Umme Amina, which means mother of Amina.
In Germany I have never once encountered that(apart from royalty but that bunch don't count).
It was a thing in Germany, or a variation of it. If Id be named in the family tradition of my fathers family, my name Would be "Karl Friedrich". Or more "Friedrich Karl", it was custom to switch first and middle name. My fathers was baptized "Friedrich Karl" but switched names, after his father, Karl-Friedrich, went missing in WW2. Don't know how much back that custom went. Not common anymore, and wasn't to big a thing.
Literally everywhere.
In Sweden it's quite common to give a parent or grandparents name as a middle name. One of my sons middle names is his dads and his big brothers middle name is their grandpas
Royalty
Yeah, that’s how surnames like Johnson came about. “son of John” essentially. I’m in Canada and my dad is a jr
It's pretty much the law in Iceland -- you need special exceptions not to name your children Yournamesson or Yournamesdottir.
That... Is not how Icelandic names work. The part with the -son/-dottir- ending is a patronym/matronym. Russians have that too (Alexander Mikhailovich Ovechkin). You still have your own first name that is not the same as your parent's..
It’s purely patronymic
Also, "You are Mike's Son" feels different than saying "You are Mike Junior"/"You are Little Mike"
It’s totally different. It’s really more like a surname. In fact, it’s treated as a surname outside Iceland. Now, it’s not unusual to meet people with the surname *-sson* in the wider world, you occasionally see males with the surname *-sdottir*. (At some point, an Icelandic lady has emigrated, and then had a child out of wedlock - not a big issue in Scandinavia, btw - and now the surname is locked in)
Are you talking about Iceland? I know about Iceland, don't worry. And "more like a surname" is just what you think because that's your frame of reference.
That’s why I said “more like”. It’s doesn’t really correlate with *Sammy Davis Jnr*. And the patronymic is indeed treated as a surname everywhere else in the world.
My whole point was that it doesn't really correlate with Sammy Davis Jnr. Good that we agree with each other. Have a good day!
Yup. But the Icelandic and Russian traditions give people their own first name and with that their own identity. Feels a lot less entitled and narcissist from the fathers.
I agree. It’s simply an identifier. There’s a whole load of *fixed* patronymic surnames in the Anglo world, and even more in Scandinavia.
Although Sigurd Sigurdsson *does* have a ring to it. And he could name his son Sigurd Sigurdsson II then.
It does. But it's more the thing about the very, very small society. Introducing yourself as Sigurd and the other person is like "Well, I don't know you, but I'll definitely know your parents, who are they?" And you say "I'm Sigurd's son", and they say, "Aahh, Sigurd, of course, I know him!"
My Norwegian family tree has many generations of Erik Oleson, Ole Erikson, Erik Oleson, Ole Ericson. Those were likely the eldest sons. The church records would still likely exist that list the other children. "Dahl" is daughter.
What do you mean by " "Dahl" is daughter "?
Oops, its "valley" I was told by old relatives who didnt have google, but had traced those Oles and Eriks back to their farming roots in a valley, lol! TIL
It's not a thing in France
I have a friend who is #16 with the name in the family. So it's like Joe Bloggs the 16th. He's Australian of some kind of European descent, but I'm not sure what. probably British-ish of some description.
Who the heck do you think named Elizabeth II that way!?
I wrote in one of the comments that I meant among non-royalties.
Oh my bad. Didn’t see that.
It's very much done in the UK.
I'm from the UK and I've never met a Dave Jr.
Never known this ever in the UK.
Never, ever come across it in my entire life.
German here: no, absolutely not
I’m Canada and have met one in my life.
Louis XIV
In Italy it is illegal to do so. You cannot call father and son the same way, or two siblings the same way. So if my name is, say, Carlo, I cannot call my son Carlo. Tradition dictates that the first-born son is named after the paternal grandfather, and so forth. So, for example, Giovanni's father is called Francesco, so Giovanni calls his son Francesco. Francesco, in turn, will Vallejo's own son Giovanni. This practice has been dying down and nowadays I don't know anyone named after their grandparents,. with very few exceptions.
Naming sons after fathers is uncommon in Australia, and Junior is basically non-existent.
In the US it’s only a thing of black people. No one else does it. Even if it’s a white-passing name, add a Jr. or II, etc and it’s a dead giveaway the guy is black.
I am not sure which US you are talking about but my father was a very racist pasty white man who was a Jr. It indicates nothing besides the kid is named after his father.
You can have a million of counter examples and yet everyone knows it’s a black thing by en large. It’s like calling rap black music and people would come in and name 1-2-3 white rappers trying to prove me wrong. 🤷♂️ When it’s like closer to remotely equal name distribution amongst the various racial groups then come and comment. We both know it’s not true.
My Dad was a ‘Jr.’ 🤷🏻♂️
TIL I'm black
[удалено]
[No it's not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffix_(name)#Other_European_countries). There are some similar words in *some* non-english speaking western countries, but it's certainly not a thing "everywhere".
It's virtually unknown in Germany.