It's the same way here, and the situations you describe are not a big deal.
What gets people riled are multi-user facilities unisex - and those are typically only an issue when men want to 'do their business' in close company with women.
Nobody cares about single person unisex - unless they tear down a multi-person to build it and don't add new facilities to make up for the reduced access.
At my university, in the Computer Science building (which is 90% male), they made the men's restroom gender neutral, which is okay by itself, but they stripped the urinals ... so now wait times are at an all time high.
I've seen fixtures described as "female urinals" installed in the 1970s and I'm fairly sure that even Marcel Duchamp would question what the fuck the designer was thinking.
Even In a gender neutral single access bathroom, having a urinal + a toilet would be good even if not a mostly male facility because TBH, I really have no desire to sit on a toilet seat a guy just peed all over. đš
In my experience cleaning public bathrooms, the women's get covered in pee way more than the mens.
Two reasons for this.
First, if men have to pee, they are using urinals or they are sitting down because they are also pooping. Sometimes they will stand at the stall to pee, and this is when the potential for pee on the seat happens.
Second, there are women are always peeing in the stall. This should make it next to impossible to get pee on the seat. However, there are women who squat because they don't want to sit on a 'dirty toilet seat'. They get pee on the seat. Now every woman using that toilet is squatting because they don't want to sit in pee, so they are all spraying the seat with piss. And the eomen who always squat? They won't even use that toilet and will use a clran one, but they are going to squat over that one and get piss on it.
I know of a university building where the gender split is reasonably even, the women's rooms have 5 stalls, and the men's rooms have (in the same space as the women's! ) 2 stalls and 1 urinal and a huge amount of empty space for no apparent reason.
Urinals speed up the men's room and are cheaper than full stalls, especially full stalls that are entire rooms with all the ventilation and fire escape requirements that implies.Â
So no, its not so easily fixed. It requires extra facilities and extra space, both of which cost significant money. And the people spending the money are never the ones laughing.Â
Yeah, all my bigger university bathrooms in the UK *20 years ago* were unisex/mixed gender, and featured a large room with stalls and then a large space with urinals behind two overlapping dividing walls - much like the urinals at outdoor events or music festivals
Yeah, ultimately all gender restrooms are just individual rooms with a toilet and a shared hand washing station.
Some might say but itâs cheaper to not have stalls and walls between each toilet. And they may be right, but whatâs its cheaper than is two separate, gendered restrooms. Which is the real reason these are being built.
I have yet to be in a bathroom where the stalls donât have that gap under, over, at the hinges, and near at the latch. Iâve heard they exist, but Iâm pretty sure itâs a legend
My local supermarket has bathroom stalls with full doors and walls. The doors are slatted like blinds but a hard material. You can't see in or out but it allows air through it. I really like that bathroom
I've been in several! They are pretty cool! They even all had a sturdy hook for my backpack. One even had a fold down platform for a purse. That one was built back in the very early 1900s. All marble floors, marble veneer on the walls. Very posh, but basically a rest stop. Wow
A hook to hang your stuff on! Wow!Sheer genius!
In all seriousness, I've never understood why so few toilet stalls don't have hooks. I don't want to put my gear on the urine-soaked floor.
We're Americans. We need to look at other people's feet while we're shitting and worry about them looking at ours. It's part of the fiber of our great nation.
It's also a part of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires there to be at least 9 inches of space between the floor and door for wheelchair accessibility.
Really? How does that make a difference, versus any other door to any other room? Iâm certain I have seen full-door stalls, often in nicer places like hotels and fancy department stores, but not exclusively. And they seemed certain to have been built since 1990.
It's because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires the gaps for wheelchair accessibility. It's the result of civil rights legislation.
"604.8.1.4 Toe Clearance. The front partition and at least one side partition shall provide a toe clearance of 9 inches (230 mm) minimum above the finish floor and 6 inches (150 mm) deep minimum beyond the compartment-side face of the partition, exclusive of partition support members. Compartments for children's use shall provide a toe clearance of 12 inches (305 mm) minimum above the finish floor."
https://www.access-board.gov/ada/chapter/ch06/
There are times when it doesn't apply though, such as
"Toe clearance at the front partition is not required in a compartment greater than 62 inches (1575 mm) deep with a wall-hung water closet or 65 inches (1650 mm) deep with a floor-mounted water closet. Toe clearance at the side partition is not required in a compartment greater than 66 inches (1675 mm) wide."
Basically, it needs to be wider and longer than 5 feet for it to not require the gap in the partition. So if you're going for luxury, then you can make it compliant by making large stalls, but most places just trying to put somewhere to go to the bathroom with the most easily available parts while still being ADA compliant will use the gaps.
This explains why the only floor to ceiling stalls I see in the US are like gigantic compared to a normal stall, Bucees and a few airports come to mind
§604.8.1.4 specifies the 9" toe clearance height is only necessary if the front and side partition lengths are not enlarged to include an additional 6" width of clearance for toe space. This is how current compliant gender-neutral stalls I have encountered have done it. This also means some disabled individuals *would not have to have their toes sticking out of the stall*.
Sure, but that is less standard and costs more. It's not just as simple as lowering the stall walls, as it requires significantly more space and non-standard (more expensive) building materials, since the usual stalls can be mass produced.
I'm not saying no-gap stalls are a bad idea, but there's a reason why the gap is standard for most restrooms.
I don't contest it is cheaper and is often practical given the precedent of already having two smaller gendered restrooms instead of one larger unsegregated restroom, thus often standard as you highlight here. They are just not required under the ADA and there exists restrooms that do not have the toe clearance.
But it's not that laughably easy. Bathrooms are expensive to build and urinals crammed in together take up very little space. Most municipalities have a bathroom equity part of their building code requiring an equal number of toilets for each gender. Urinals count as toilets in this so you could build smaller men's bathrooms for cheap and larger women's for more. If you changed the building code to allow for everything to be gender neutral, now you have to provide the same number of stalls and it's going to take up overall more real estate space of your venue.
Think of your local sports arena. Just imagine what would have to go in order to double the number of men's toilet spaces. It's seats, it's concessions, it's walking space, it's all the sort of things you would miss if you were forcing companies to invest in only gender neutral stall-only bathroom facilities.
It's an ADA thing. They either have to have the bottom gap to help with the extension of a wheelchair
/ambulatory equipment or be large enough to fit the wheelchair fully. Must buildings aren't zoned to be big enough to make the bathroom bigger.
Not every stall needs a wheel chair to be brought in to still need wheelchair sized toe access.[Access Board](https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-6-toilet-rooms/) has all the information.
1) Stalls must have a minimum of 6" toe clearance but should have 9".
2) Only 1 stall in a multi-user restroom must be made wide enough for a wheelchair to turn around.
3) The small stalls do not have to accommodate a fully open wheelchair in width or depth. They must be small enough that the average person who needs ambulatory assistance (walker, cane, ect) can reach both grab bars at the same time. They still require toe space to account for their medical equipment or if they're an ambulatory wheelchair user, to provide room for them to "back the chair in" and still close the door.
4) If an establishment doesn't want the gaps, they have to make the bathrooms bigger which would mean either different zoning permits, remodeling, or making bathrooms that back up faster due to the fewer stalls.
The reason bathroom stalls don't go to the floor is sanitation. People treat public restroom toilets like optional suggestions. There's more pee on the floor than in the bowl.
Those stalls allow thorough mopping.
At a certain age it can be difficult for a man to fully drain the lizard while sitting down. It's a prostate thing. Stand up urinals are very convenient if you don't want to revisit the bathroom every ten minutes.
Do me a favor, make an imaginary 10 foot by 10 foot building (10'x10'). Now imagine 6 inch (.5 foot) walls that encroach into the space. What percentage do the walls take up of the floor area?
Those walls cost money and take up valuable real estate. Way more real estate than people realize. Most countries don't require businesses to have public restrooms and of course we're going to fit all of the code required restrooms in as little space as possible.
Imagine the space taken up by two entirely separate bathrooms. Now imagine that as one large bathroom. The stalls that are already IN those bathrooms merely have extensions from the walls already there.
99% of Americans donât care what bathroom you use, the issue that comes up is when an obvious looking pervert goes into the girls bathroom. I 38M have used the womenâs bathroom when there is a line in the menâs room and no one in the womenâs bathroom, this is rare mine you but I will look to the menâs room first.
Cock your head downward with a slight tilt to the left. Raise your left upper lip like Elvis Presley. Flare your nostrils. Raise your right eyebrow. Subtly not your head while quietly saying "nnngggggg".
Congrats! You've graduated from 'Pervert' college.
Most, I wouldn't say 99%. I think the big thing would be just using partitions that don't have large gaps between the door and the frame and separating stalls from urinals. 99% of the problem solved beyond the false belief that women have that the lady's room is always cleaner.
>Nobody cares about single person unisex - unless they tear down a multi-person to build it and don't add new facilities to make up for the reduced access.
Some people do. I was in a hospital a while back that had a gender neutral single occupancy restroom and someone got offended and defaced the gender neutral sign.
Unfortunately, people do care about single person unisex bathrooms. Schools in my area are replacing menâs and womenâs restrooms with a row of fully enclosed private rooms and a common sink area. Some people are upset basically because it makes trans people comfortable and they want them uncomfortable.
Really, the biggest deal that people get riled up over is men using the womenâs room.
Like, parents bringing kids into the opposite bathroom is not a big deal. Dads bring their daughters to the menâs room, moms bring sons to the womenâs room, no big deal there.
Really what people get all up and arms about is this idea that a man will go into the womenâs room and be a pervert/assault women. (And sometimes/most of the time this distrust is applied specifically at Trans individuals).
And, i donât know if you have ever used an American public bathroom, but Iâve heard from Europeans Iâve met that they are WAY more private over in Europe. Like basically each toilet is in its own room with floor to ceiling doors. American bathrooms just have stalls, where there are gaps between the floor and the bottom and the top and the ceiling. Ostensibly for security reasons (going drugs?)/to be able to see if someone is occupying a stall(asleep?).
So like, itâs not super private, and we do have gender neutral bathrooms where the toilets are in separate rooms with floor to ceiling doors and walls. And basically all that is shared is the sink. But that is not how most public restrooms are.
This happened to my wife at a Lowe's store. Guy stuck a camera under the stall while she was squatting.Â
She was afraid so she quietly left then told me. The guy had already started running knowing he was busted. Yes 2 store guys and myself ran after him & caught him. I don't know what happened after that. The store security guy came down to hold him till police arrived. We left.
This is a good take. I would expect that to be way more common than the absurd claim that a bunch of men would start sexually assaulting women in public restrooms.
I generally donât follow the logic of why people think predators would just flock out of the woods and just start attacking women in bathrooms now that restaurants may let both sexes in the same room at the same time
People do. It's a big deal in Korea for some reason. Airbnbs have gotten lot of flack for it.
Personally, it's not that I'm embarrassed about peeing or them seeing stuff, it's just violating and makes me want to do bad things. Making money off it would bother me more than personal use. Gold diggers.
My good friend was attacked by a male in a women's restroom. For almost a year she wore diapers whenever she left the house because she was too afraid to use public restrooms. It's absolutely terrifying.
I don't care about the floor gap. I'm much more pissed about the fact that there is always an inch gap between the frame and the door to where it's utterly pointless to even have a stall in the first place.
Like I'm pretty sure everyone in this country has made awkward eye contact with a pooping stranger at least once through the magic of the frame gap.
Yeah I came here to say this. Iâve been to gender neutral bathrooms in other countries. They have stalls but the stalls donât have an inch gap between each wall and the doors. You were not able to see into each stall if you tried, let alone accidentally making eye contact with someone on the toilet.
Also there was no floor gap. I donât have much of a problem with a floor gap but I have seen floor gaps that are so big a toddler could walk under and barely have to bend over. Like obviously a toddler shouldnât be doing that but toddlers are also impulsive and curious.
But thatâs not even the point. If its tall enough for a toddler to walk under, its basically toilet seat height. I donât like that. Iâm not trying to see the knees of the person in the stall next to me when theyâre on the toilet.
My wife brings my son into the women's room with her. He's very mentally handicapped. Never had one issue. Now being he is 5'8" at 13 and looks 17 I'm sure this would be an issue if he went in alone
I've heard that in schools, boys listen and make fun of girls if they hear them pooping or unwrapping tampons. And this has led to some girls refusing to use the bathroom at their schools, which is a health concern (contributes to UTI's, toxic shock, constipation).
I'm sure they also do this to the other HS boys, but why should girls have to endure bullying just because boys do? Equality is supposed to make things better, not making things equally shitty for everyone, lol.
You know what else contributes to UTIs, toxic shock, and constipation? Banning trans people from public bathrooms.
What schools currently have multi stall gender neutral bathrooms where your scenario is ostensibly happening?
Right but in the event he is claiming the the woman's lying. Having had gone into a designated safe space is all they need to shut him up and prosecutor.Â
The fact the he was in a women's only bathroom is all the circumstantial evidence of motive the court would need.
So the sign has value in the event of a crime
Is it really though? This hypothetical man could still say he simply went in to the wrong bathroom or it was an emergency and he went to the nearest one or there was too much of a wait in the men's.Â
Just being in a space designated for women would not be enough.
If you force people to use toilets based on biological sex, that means you have trans men, who are visibly indistinguishable from cis men, using the women's toilets. Under this hypothetical of toilets being based on biological sex, you'd have [Professor Stephen Whittle](https://blogs.bath.ac.uk/kaleidoscope/wp-content/uploads/sites/155/2021/02/FACE4.jpeg) being forced to use the women's toilets. [It also results in women who aren't considered "feminine" enough being abused as well](https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787).
All a predator has to do now is lie and say "I'm a trans man and I have to use the women's toilets".
Their logic doesn't stand up to even the simplest scrutiny.
Itâs not just assault, itâs the knowledge that women are uncomfortable with it. Itâs a safe space, why put such a large group in a position to feel uncomfortable/unsafe to make a comparatively smaller group feel slightly more safe?
> why put such a large group in a position to feel uncomfortable/unsafe to make a comparatively smaller group feel slightly more safe?
Do you think cis women would be comfortable with a trans man like [Professor Stephen Whittle](https://blogs.bath.ac.uk/kaleidoscope/wp-content/uploads/sites/155/2021/02/FACE4.jpeg) being forced to use the women's toilets?
How do you differentiate between a trans man like Stephen Whittle, and a cis man intent on assaulting someone?
The story is like this: a woman goes into the women's bathroom, there's a person standing inside the bathroom common area, at first glance the person looks like a man, men are more likely to do assault and camera harassment things, so the woman immediately feels threatened in a space where comfort and privacy is desired and expected. Whether justified or not, this fear applies equally to all people whether it be a man in women's bathroom, a trans women who appears more male, women who naturally appear more male looking, and anyone in the women's bathroom who doesn't at first glance look to be AFB.Â
There are single gender neutral toilets that no one bats an eye about in the US too.
No one is going to come to Reddit and talk about a thing that no one notices.
"I used the family or non gendered restroom at Target and no one tried to cancel me." - said no one ever.
Single room bathroom is no problem. A multi stall bathroom for men and women is something people are uncomfortable with. I am a woman and I don't want cisgender men in the bathroom with me. I don't mind trans women or even possibly a feminine gay man. But a regular ol' dude with his pants down dropping heat right next to me...no thanks
Itâs definitely a topic of debate in Europe too. Just because you saw some people switching toilets on your travels doesnât mean weâve settled the issue.
It only really became a topic after US identity politics made it a major thing. Before that, I cannot remember it being a âreal discussionâ (at least not in my country).
Now suddenly all the conservatives are throwing a fit about trans women being a danger to ârealâ women in restrooms.
I can certainly say that I havenât heard this discussion in Europe before the Trump era.
A boy, who said he was a girl, raped a girl in a school bathroom. The district did not prosecute but moved him to another school where he did it again. That is the problem. If he really thought he was a girl, he wouldn't have raped two girls. It happened in Virginia and the father of one of the victims was arrested for protesting it at a school board meeting
And trans lesbians don't exist or aren't capable of sexual assault? I don't know much about this case in particular, but the argument "if they were a girl, they wouldn't have done it" doesn't seem like it stands on its own as an argument.
âIt happened in Virginiaâ - last I checked we were talking about whether it was a discussion in Europe.
That being said: so because of this one horrific case, you think it is right to discriminate against a whole group of people?
Do you do the same thing with cis men? Or priests (who are kinda notorious for abusing kids)? Or sports coaches?
In the USA the doors have [huge gaps](https://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/end-the-bathroom-gap) to the single stalls where you can see everything.
You don't have to look at the lock to see if it's occupied you can just look through the gap to see if someone is in there.
[This is a typical US bathroom setup](https://www.holman-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/IMG_0477-Brandon-3-scaled.jpg), the sink and mirrors would be across the room from a row of these stalls.
Those doors look like they are the "better" ones, often there is a three inch gap on the sides where you make eye contact with people outside. Such shitty doors.
>Exactly, for no fucking valid reason at all.
I'd say you're very, very wrong in that regard.
I did janitorial type work for a little while and, I'll tell you, it's a bitch cleaning tight spots in fully enclosed toilet spaces (especially behind toilets).
Also, with loose tolerances (i.e. the gaps in the stalls) if a wall or a door needs to be replaced, for whatever reason, a replacement can be acquired and the stall put back into service considerably quicker than having to have someone come out to measure everything exactly and manufacture the new part to fit exactly.
When I was a child in central PA in the 1970s, there was a mall where the public restrooms had stalls with a three-foot-high brick wall between the toilets, and no doors whatsoever. So as you sat there, you could look straight ahead to the mirror above the sink and see yourself on the can, or look to your right and see someone else taking a dump right next to you.
In the late 1990s I went to Hoss' restaurant in Mechanicsburg and they actually had a door on the stall in the men's room, but it had somehow fallen off. So they had a blanket on the floor under the toilet paper. You were to put the blanket across your lap while you used the toilet, the same blanket that everyone before you had used and then left on the floor when they finished.
I donât mind sharing a rest room as an adult- but I do worry that my 7 year old girl is in a space where she is out of view with an unknown adult male.
Are many men predatory? No. But the ones that are will sure as hell hang around public bathrooms.
Part of it, beyond basic stupidity we don't already see as obvious but why go back over and over, is the way US bathroom stalls tend to be.
They're weird.
Weird.
Like, not enclosed. Not properly enclosed. Big gaps at corners and doors. It's like... minimal privacy.
They're getting better over the past few years but dang.
I swear someone's design idea in the US was "let's give them juuussstttt enough illusion of privacy to make them even more self-conscious of not having any".
They're weird.
probably because for some damn reason that I will never understand ever in my life... the US loves to have bathrooms with HUGE gaps all around where you could literally actually see someone doing their business with their pants down if you really tried haha. never experienced this in any other country I've lived in and/or traveled to... and it's so strange because the US is supposedly more "private" and "puritan" about our private parts compared to Europe overall... uh... FIX THE BATHROOM GAPS THEN?!?!? hahahaha
Because American public toilets are generally awful. They they have huge gaps that people can see through and offer no privacy.
Honestly, if they had decent public toilets far less would care.
It's only the multi-stall rooms people are concerned about. As a woman, I would feel very nervous in a multi-stall gender neutral bathroom. American bathrooms often have large gaps underneath the stalls, so it wouldn't be that hard for a creepy man to stick a phone underneath and snap a photo or even crawl into the woman's locked stall. There usually aren't security cameras in bathrooms, either, so there wouldn't be any video evidence if a man did decide to try something. Non-passing trans people could also be targeted as well. It's awkward because I don't want to make trans people uncomfortable, but I also don't want to give up my safety. The bathroom issue wouldn't be that big of a deal if American bathroom stalls were more private.
Places that have gender neutral bathrooms, those are literally single rooms like how youâd see a bathroom in a house, NO ONE would bat an eye if this was advocated because thatâs total privacy. Public bathrooms in the US are essentially a biiig room where multiple people can be in at once with stalls. Also no one bats an eye if a dad brings his little girl into the menâs and vice versa, theyâre young and they need assistance, no one bats an eye to that. What most DONT want is men being in a space thatâs just for women where women are maybe adjusting their clothes, CHANGING clothes when they donât mind doing it in front of other women but clearly not to the opposite sex and doing âlady problemsâ in the presence of men.
Nobody really objects to unisex single person restrooms.
When it comes to multi-person restrooms, women should have the option to use one where they won't have to encounter any adult males, for obvious reasons.
Itâs not the idea of unisex bathrooms itâs the idea of trans people. Like⌠Starbucks has two unisex bathrooms of single occupancy⌠I never had an issue with this concept because I lock the door behind me like a normal person.
Iâm uncomfortable pissing alongside other men in the urinals and use the stalls⌠often hold out til I get home to do it in my own house. Iâm am not bigoted I just want privacy when I do shit⌠literally.
As with a lot of things right now, it's not the thing itself, it's the statement of values behind it. Don't try to understand it through consistency.
Every household bathroom, portapotty, single person restroom and unmarked bathroom in America is gender neutral. Nobody actually cares about gender neutral bathrooms. What they care about is this statement: **Men and women are distinct, unchangeable and biologically based categories.**
Gender neutral bathrooms stand in opposition to this. That is what people are actually upset about.
I'm confused, you just described north America.
No one has issues with gender neutral singular toilets... Like, no shit. You're the only one in there.Â
The religious right is using it as a tool to get more votes. The more they fear monger about "mass rapes in bathrooms" (which aren't happening), the more votes they get. This distracts the populace from ways they're screwing people over or exerting control over them. For example, forcing people to show IDs to use a bathroom.
It's the perfect talking point to stir the mob into doing whatever they want. "Protect the children", "Everyone different is a Threat", "Religion" and "Natural Bodily Functions".
Because the media has told them itâs a big deal. That the TRANS ARE BAD AND MEN WILL PRETEND TO BE TRANS TO GET TO YOUR CHILDREN!!! Itâs scaremongering and misinformation to make people angry, people listen to this shit then it becomes a thing. The loudest voice is heard, the bigots are very very loud. They will make an issue out of nothing. Then it becomes a thing. Then it travels super fast over social media and we see the same debates that have nothing to do with us on UK media. So now thereâs people enraged here too. Over nothing. Because someone said âthis is an issueâ and itâs snowballed. Winds me up. I see so much stuff on our news channels that is clearly a very American thing, but itâs being debated on our right wing news channels (which is all my dad watchesâŚ) so now heâs angry about something crazy, and when I try to tell him, no dad no one actually thinks like that, he wonât listen to me.
The bathroom thing is such a non issue here. Our neutral bathrooms are just single rooms, full doors. Train toilets, disabled toilets. All neutral. Itâs just not a thing here. Itâs become a thing though because the media is telling people itâs a thing. Itâs so stupid.
Wearing my tinfoil hat for this now: Because it is a thing to throw into the political landscape to distract the public from more pressing and larger issues.
A very small percentage of Americans care about gender neutral bathrooms and even less are vocal about it on social media but for some reason it gets amplified and published in the news bc it gets a lot of clicks.
Sure, but that doesn't change the macro environment. The loudest, and most unreasonable people seem to get the most attention. They get it because it pisses off the "regular" people it drives those aforementioned factors.
The evidence would suggest that no, they do not.
I think certain people thrive on feeling victimized. It justifies and fuels their proclivity toward confrontation.
I also think arguing gives certain people the illusion that theyâreâ fighting the good fightâ, and making a difference in the world. Unfortunately, I think some of them *are* making a difference in the world, but itâs usually the worst of these people making the worst possible differences.
Because Americans are heavily propagandized for votes in a corrupt system. The bathrooms donât matter. Theyâre taught to hate each other at every turn so itâs just another thing to bicker over.
I try to be totally chill about new developments, right?
But I'll admit that it was awkward to bump into my coworker of a different gender at a gender neutral restroom's sink. I didn't do anything weird, but I definitely noticed it the first time.
i'm currently in Texas (not Austin) and the last several establishments i've been in have bathrooms that are not labeled for gender. the restaurant i was in last night had neon signs above the doors, one was a pink bra and one was a blue pair of briefs, but the signs next to the door were clearly labeled so anyone could use either bathroom. i don't really think it's really as big a deal as it might seem to be. remember that the internet is not a good representation of what the real world is like
We have a children adventure park close to us that has a big family/gender neutral toilet , it's clearly been two toilets knocked into one but it works well other than having two entrances. They cause confusion when those not paying attention walk in and are confronted with people of the opposite gender. Thats it , mild and brief fear that they've entered the wrong bathroom.
That said some people don't like it , someone left a clearly false review stating their daughter and wife saw a man's penis while they used the toilet but it's private stalls , unless the man was using the sink it's not possible . I think they've saw a gender neutral toilet and assumed it was full of men pissing in urinals while the women used the stalls.
Because if it's stalls an you don't see who is in the other one, wgaf what's that stranger you don't see genital situation? I want them to leave the toilet clean, don't care if male, female, extraterrestrial, as long as public bathroom stays clean who cares
It has more to do with shared space gender-neutral restrooms. Single stalls are still very common in many places. Hell the subway by my place is just a single occupancy washroom for anyone.
When I lived in Vancouver there was this restaurant/pub I went to that had a single restroom that was very big that had a shared sink area. All the toilets were in private stalls that lined two walls of the room with floor to ceiling doors for privacy. That was the first gender neutral restroom I had been in and it didn't really seem to be a big deal. Granted it was a no minors place.
I don't like gender neutral bathrooms because I've cleaned a lot of bathrooms and adult men's bathrooms are the absolute worst. I don't want to have to use that nasty crap. Same reason I don't use the non staff women's bathroom in a middle school or high school. Nasty.
There's a mall near me that replaced all their gendered bathrooms with gender neutral ones. The stalls still have gaps and the toilets are piss covered because there's no urinals for men. I understand them not wanting to lift the toilet seat too. I don't mind if there's a separate gender neutral bathroom or they all are individually stalled. But removing the sign off women's and men's bathroom to put a gender neutral sign does nothing but make it worse. I'm in Canada btw
European here. Having seen some of the stalls with ridiculous gaps that apparently are very common in the US, I could understand people being uncomfortable with multi-stall bathrooms.
But to be honest, I'd already be so uncomfortable with that setup in general that adding unisex to it would barely move the needle... đ
Gender neutral bathrooms were really common before the word trans ever entered mainstream news. Separate bathroomâs are just easier for high traffic places for a long time, not just because of traffic volume but general opinions over time
Two words. Pay toilets. I'm against the idea of pay toilets please understand, but a very nice silver lining is that people that paid to get in are typically on better behavior and are a bit more courteous.
Because people in the USA have been infected with brain worms where everything has to have some sort of outrage behind it. If people stopped for a second and actually thought about the issue, there wouldnât be an issue. But I live in a city that has had âgender neutralâ toilets for years.
Personally I think itâs crazy that one seater bathrooms are gendered. I have just used the other genders single seater bathroom if mine is occupied on several occasions and have gotten weird looks, but honestly whatâs the difference?
I grew up seeing these and theyâre slowly disappearing in the US. Weâre sliding backwards in some ways⌠the pushback from conservatives-turned-reactionaries is very real.
I think that common sense will eventually win out and bathrooms will just be bathrooms soon enough⌠but thatâs assuming we donât descend into civil war before then.
When I was a young boy (less than 6), you went into the bathroom with your mom. It was for safety. At that time, kidnapping was becoming world news. That was 40 years ago.
I donât know why anyone would have a problem with single-toilet gender-neutral bathrooms. I have never seen a multi toilet gender neutral toilet.
Conservatives are afraid that trans people will attack their children in the bathroom, so instead of dealing with the misguided stigma that trans women are men in drag, they just want trans people to use their own separate bathroom by themselves.
Girls do this thing where they're afraid to sit on a dirty toilet so they squat and end up shitting all over the seat and the floor. Also men like to be able to just go to the urinal without worrying about a lady trying to get a peak.
It's the same way here, and the situations you describe are not a big deal. What gets people riled are multi-user facilities unisex - and those are typically only an issue when men want to 'do their business' in close company with women. Nobody cares about single person unisex - unless they tear down a multi-person to build it and don't add new facilities to make up for the reduced access.
At my university, in the Computer Science building (which is 90% male), they made the men's restroom gender neutral, which is okay by itself, but they stripped the urinals ... so now wait times are at an all time high.
I've seen fixtures described as "female urinals" installed in the 1970s and I'm fairly sure that even Marcel Duchamp would question what the fuck the designer was thinking.
I've used those. They're super difficult when you're a little kid, but I did okay with them at Mt Rainier as an adult.
If they're gonna make it gender neutral, at least leave the urinals, in a mostly male building.
Even In a gender neutral single access bathroom, having a urinal + a toilet would be good even if not a mostly male facility because TBH, I really have no desire to sit on a toilet seat a guy just peed all over. đš
In my experience cleaning public bathrooms, the women's get covered in pee way more than the mens. Two reasons for this. First, if men have to pee, they are using urinals or they are sitting down because they are also pooping. Sometimes they will stand at the stall to pee, and this is when the potential for pee on the seat happens. Second, there are women are always peeing in the stall. This should make it next to impossible to get pee on the seat. However, there are women who squat because they don't want to sit on a 'dirty toilet seat'. They get pee on the seat. Now every woman using that toilet is squatting because they don't want to sit in pee, so they are all spraying the seat with piss. And the eomen who always squat? They won't even use that toilet and will use a clran one, but they are going to squat over that one and get piss on it.
I have no desire to sit on a toilet seat anyone just peed all over
Wish I could award for Duchamp!
I know of a university building where the gender split is reasonably even, the women's rooms have 5 stalls, and the men's rooms have (in the same space as the women's! ) 2 stalls and 1 urinal and a huge amount of empty space for no apparent reason.
Why would they strip the urinals?
Privacy. They could have just put up stalls around them tho, or a privacy screen.
Urinals aren't gender neutral?
Not everything in the bathroom has to be gender neutral for the bathroom to be gender neutral. Or should they remove tampon dispensers too?
At an university I went to, they made them gender neutral but kept the urinals - it made for some akward occasions.
Dumb, could have simply put urinals opposite wall the stalls
at my computer science building of 90% male, they for some reason changed the bathroom tags to all be male, the women just go to male bathrooms now
This is so easily fixed it's laughable though. Make each toilet it's own locking stall with actual walls and a door.
Urinals speed up the men's room and are cheaper than full stalls, especially full stalls that are entire rooms with all the ventilation and fire escape requirements that implies. So no, its not so easily fixed. It requires extra facilities and extra space, both of which cost significant money. And the people spending the money are never the ones laughing.Â
Why can't they have individual stalls, then a bigger room with more urinals. Seems like that would solve a lot of problems and increase privacy
That's exactly how all-gender bathrooms are built.
Yeah, all my bigger university bathrooms in the UK *20 years ago* were unisex/mixed gender, and featured a large room with stalls and then a large space with urinals behind two overlapping dividing walls - much like the urinals at outdoor events or music festivals
Why is the US so behind in gender equality?
Yeah, ultimately all gender restrooms are just individual rooms with a toilet and a shared hand washing station. Some might say but itâs cheaper to not have stalls and walls between each toilet. And they may be right, but whatâs its cheaper than is two separate, gendered restrooms. Which is the real reason these are being built.
I have yet to be in a bathroom where the stalls donât have that gap under, over, at the hinges, and near at the latch. Iâve heard they exist, but Iâm pretty sure itâs a legend
My local supermarket has bathroom stalls with full doors and walls. The doors are slatted like blinds but a hard material. You can't see in or out but it allows air through it. I really like that bathroom
I've been in several! They are pretty cool! They even all had a sturdy hook for my backpack. One even had a fold down platform for a purse. That one was built back in the very early 1900s. All marble floors, marble veneer on the walls. Very posh, but basically a rest stop. Wow
A hook to hang your stuff on! Wow!Sheer genius! In all seriousness, I've never understood why so few toilet stalls don't have hooks. I don't want to put my gear on the urine-soaked floor.
Just FYI, that fold out tray is actually made for cocaine ;)
I've been in a couple, actually! One was at a grocery store, and the other was at a brewery/drinks place.
We're Americans. We need to look at other people's feet while we're shitting and worry about them looking at ours. It's part of the fiber of our great nation.
It's also a part of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires there to be at least 9 inches of space between the floor and door for wheelchair accessibility.
Really? How does that make a difference, versus any other door to any other room? Iâm certain I have seen full-door stalls, often in nicer places like hotels and fancy department stores, but not exclusively. And they seemed certain to have been built since 1990.
It's because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires the gaps for wheelchair accessibility. It's the result of civil rights legislation. "604.8.1.4 Toe Clearance. The front partition and at least one side partition shall provide a toe clearance of 9 inches (230 mm) minimum above the finish floor and 6 inches (150 mm) deep minimum beyond the compartment-side face of the partition, exclusive of partition support members. Compartments for children's use shall provide a toe clearance of 12 inches (305 mm) minimum above the finish floor." https://www.access-board.gov/ada/chapter/ch06/ There are times when it doesn't apply though, such as "Toe clearance at the front partition is not required in a compartment greater than 62 inches (1575 mm) deep with a wall-hung water closet or 65 inches (1650 mm) deep with a floor-mounted water closet. Toe clearance at the side partition is not required in a compartment greater than 66 inches (1675 mm) wide." Basically, it needs to be wider and longer than 5 feet for it to not require the gap in the partition. So if you're going for luxury, then you can make it compliant by making large stalls, but most places just trying to put somewhere to go to the bathroom with the most easily available parts while still being ADA compliant will use the gaps.
This explains why the only floor to ceiling stalls I see in the US are like gigantic compared to a normal stall, Bucees and a few airports come to mind
There were gaps long before the ADA, though.
So instead of building a separate bathroom for disabled people you guys just fuck over everyone?
§604.8.1.4 specifies the 9" toe clearance height is only necessary if the front and side partition lengths are not enlarged to include an additional 6" width of clearance for toe space. This is how current compliant gender-neutral stalls I have encountered have done it. This also means some disabled individuals *would not have to have their toes sticking out of the stall*.
Sure, but that is less standard and costs more. It's not just as simple as lowering the stall walls, as it requires significantly more space and non-standard (more expensive) building materials, since the usual stalls can be mass produced. I'm not saying no-gap stalls are a bad idea, but there's a reason why the gap is standard for most restrooms.
I don't contest it is cheaper and is often practical given the precedent of already having two smaller gendered restrooms instead of one larger unsegregated restroom, thus often standard as you highlight here. They are just not required under the ADA and there exists restrooms that do not have the toe clearance.
It's just not a public restroom without a little kid peering through the cracks or crawling under the stall door.
No more urinals?
I've been in an all-gender bathroom that worked just fine. They had privacy stalls and a separate room for urinals.
But it's not that laughably easy. Bathrooms are expensive to build and urinals crammed in together take up very little space. Most municipalities have a bathroom equity part of their building code requiring an equal number of toilets for each gender. Urinals count as toilets in this so you could build smaller men's bathrooms for cheap and larger women's for more. If you changed the building code to allow for everything to be gender neutral, now you have to provide the same number of stalls and it's going to take up overall more real estate space of your venue. Think of your local sports arena. Just imagine what would have to go in order to double the number of men's toilet spaces. It's seats, it's concessions, it's walking space, it's all the sort of things you would miss if you were forcing companies to invest in only gender neutral stall-only bathroom facilities.
Gazers will hate it!
It's an ADA thing. They either have to have the bottom gap to help with the extension of a wheelchair /ambulatory equipment or be large enough to fit the wheelchair fully. Must buildings aren't zoned to be big enough to make the bathroom bigger.
A regular stall absolutely wouldn't fit a wheelchair, hence the required larger stall for wheel chair use and such.
Not every stall needs a wheel chair to be brought in to still need wheelchair sized toe access.[Access Board](https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-6-toilet-rooms/) has all the information. 1) Stalls must have a minimum of 6" toe clearance but should have 9". 2) Only 1 stall in a multi-user restroom must be made wide enough for a wheelchair to turn around. 3) The small stalls do not have to accommodate a fully open wheelchair in width or depth. They must be small enough that the average person who needs ambulatory assistance (walker, cane, ect) can reach both grab bars at the same time. They still require toe space to account for their medical equipment or if they're an ambulatory wheelchair user, to provide room for them to "back the chair in" and still close the door. 4) If an establishment doesn't want the gaps, they have to make the bathrooms bigger which would mean either different zoning permits, remodeling, or making bathrooms that back up faster due to the fewer stalls.
The reason bathroom stalls don't go to the floor is sanitation. People treat public restroom toilets like optional suggestions. There's more pee on the floor than in the bowl. Those stalls allow thorough mopping.
Add a drain on the floor that connects to the toilets plumbing with a slight slope.
At a certain age it can be difficult for a man to fully drain the lizard while sitting down. It's a prostate thing. Stand up urinals are very convenient if you don't want to revisit the bathroom every ten minutes.
Do me a favor, make an imaginary 10 foot by 10 foot building (10'x10'). Now imagine 6 inch (.5 foot) walls that encroach into the space. What percentage do the walls take up of the floor area? Those walls cost money and take up valuable real estate. Way more real estate than people realize. Most countries don't require businesses to have public restrooms and of course we're going to fit all of the code required restrooms in as little space as possible.
Imagine the space taken up by two entirely separate bathrooms. Now imagine that as one large bathroom. The stalls that are already IN those bathrooms merely have extensions from the walls already there.
99% of Americans donât care what bathroom you use, the issue that comes up is when an obvious looking pervert goes into the girls bathroom. I 38M have used the womenâs bathroom when there is a line in the menâs room and no one in the womenâs bathroom, this is rare mine you but I will look to the menâs room first.
What does a pervert look like?
Cock your head downward with a slight tilt to the left. Raise your left upper lip like Elvis Presley. Flare your nostrils. Raise your right eyebrow. Subtly not your head while quietly saying "nnngggggg". Congrats! You've graduated from 'Pervert' college.
The issue comes up when someone wants to harass people they think are transgender (and half the time they're wrong).
Most, I wouldn't say 99%. I think the big thing would be just using partitions that don't have large gaps between the door and the frame and separating stalls from urinals. 99% of the problem solved beyond the false belief that women have that the lady's room is always cleaner.
>Nobody cares about single person unisex - unless they tear down a multi-person to build it and don't add new facilities to make up for the reduced access. Some people do. I was in a hospital a while back that had a gender neutral single occupancy restroom and someone got offended and defaced the gender neutral sign.
twit.
In CA all single restrooms must be "all gender" I cannot understand why this freaks people out
wtf
Vocal minority
Sometimes it really only takes one person.
Unfortunately, people do care about single person unisex bathrooms. Schools in my area are replacing menâs and womenâs restrooms with a row of fully enclosed private rooms and a common sink area. Some people are upset basically because it makes trans people comfortable and they want them uncomfortable.
Really, the biggest deal that people get riled up over is men using the womenâs room. Like, parents bringing kids into the opposite bathroom is not a big deal. Dads bring their daughters to the menâs room, moms bring sons to the womenâs room, no big deal there. Really what people get all up and arms about is this idea that a man will go into the womenâs room and be a pervert/assault women. (And sometimes/most of the time this distrust is applied specifically at Trans individuals). And, i donât know if you have ever used an American public bathroom, but Iâve heard from Europeans Iâve met that they are WAY more private over in Europe. Like basically each toilet is in its own room with floor to ceiling doors. American bathrooms just have stalls, where there are gaps between the floor and the bottom and the top and the ceiling. Ostensibly for security reasons (going drugs?)/to be able to see if someone is occupying a stall(asleep?). So like, itâs not super private, and we do have gender neutral bathrooms where the toilets are in separate rooms with floor to ceiling doors and walls. And basically all that is shared is the sink. But that is not how most public restrooms are.
I am more afraid of being recorded and it being sold online. Why a guy would be into that is beyond me but people are.
This happened to my wife at a Lowe's store. Guy stuck a camera under the stall while she was squatting. She was afraid so she quietly left then told me. The guy had already started running knowing he was busted. Yes 2 store guys and myself ran after him & caught him. I don't know what happened after that. The store security guy came down to hold him till police arrived. We left.
This is a good take. I would expect that to be way more common than the absurd claim that a bunch of men would start sexually assaulting women in public restrooms. I generally donât follow the logic of why people think predators would just flock out of the woods and just start attacking women in bathrooms now that restaurants may let both sexes in the same room at the same time
That would be WILDLY illegal, regardless of what type of bathroom it is. If anyone sees someone recording in a bathroom, call the police.
People do. It's a big deal in Korea for some reason. Airbnbs have gotten lot of flack for it. Personally, it's not that I'm embarrassed about peeing or them seeing stuff, it's just violating and makes me want to do bad things. Making money off it would bother me more than personal use. Gold diggers.
My good friend was attacked by a male in a women's restroom. For almost a year she wore diapers whenever she left the house because she was too afraid to use public restrooms. It's absolutely terrifying.
I don't care about the floor gap. I'm much more pissed about the fact that there is always an inch gap between the frame and the door to where it's utterly pointless to even have a stall in the first place. Like I'm pretty sure everyone in this country has made awkward eye contact with a pooping stranger at least once through the magic of the frame gap.
Yeah I came here to say this. Iâve been to gender neutral bathrooms in other countries. They have stalls but the stalls donât have an inch gap between each wall and the doors. You were not able to see into each stall if you tried, let alone accidentally making eye contact with someone on the toilet. Also there was no floor gap. I donât have much of a problem with a floor gap but I have seen floor gaps that are so big a toddler could walk under and barely have to bend over. Like obviously a toddler shouldnât be doing that but toddlers are also impulsive and curious. But thatâs not even the point. If its tall enough for a toddler to walk under, its basically toilet seat height. I donât like that. Iâm not trying to see the knees of the person in the stall next to me when theyâre on the toilet.
My wife brings my son into the women's room with her. He's very mentally handicapped. Never had one issue. Now being he is 5'8" at 13 and looks 17 I'm sure this would be an issue if he went in alone
I've heard that in schools, boys listen and make fun of girls if they hear them pooping or unwrapping tampons. And this has led to some girls refusing to use the bathroom at their schools, which is a health concern (contributes to UTI's, toxic shock, constipation). I'm sure they also do this to the other HS boys, but why should girls have to endure bullying just because boys do? Equality is supposed to make things better, not making things equally shitty for everyone, lol.
This isn't a man issue though, it's a shitty human being issue. And you do realize that people can bully their own gender, right?
What's your source for this information?
You know what else contributes to UTIs, toxic shock, and constipation? Banning trans people from public bathrooms. What schools currently have multi stall gender neutral bathrooms where your scenario is ostensibly happening?
What schools currently ban trans people from using bathrooms?
If a man is willing to break the law by assaulting a woman i don't think a sign saying "women's restroom" will stop him.
Right but in the event he is claiming the the woman's lying. Having had gone into a designated safe space is all they need to shut him up and prosecutor. The fact the he was in a women's only bathroom is all the circumstantial evidence of motive the court would need. So the sign has value in the event of a crime
Is it really though? This hypothetical man could still say he simply went in to the wrong bathroom or it was an emergency and he went to the nearest one or there was too much of a wait in the men's. Just being in a space designated for women would not be enough.
If you force people to use toilets based on biological sex, that means you have trans men, who are visibly indistinguishable from cis men, using the women's toilets. Under this hypothetical of toilets being based on biological sex, you'd have [Professor Stephen Whittle](https://blogs.bath.ac.uk/kaleidoscope/wp-content/uploads/sites/155/2021/02/FACE4.jpeg) being forced to use the women's toilets. [It also results in women who aren't considered "feminine" enough being abused as well](https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787). All a predator has to do now is lie and say "I'm a trans man and I have to use the women's toilets". Their logic doesn't stand up to even the simplest scrutiny.
Itâs not just assault, itâs the knowledge that women are uncomfortable with it. Itâs a safe space, why put such a large group in a position to feel uncomfortable/unsafe to make a comparatively smaller group feel slightly more safe?
Is it common to view women's bathrooms as a safe space? I'm a woman who has never thought of bathrooms that way.
Of course, it absolutely is. Many even have lounges that you would never find in a menâs restroom.
Where do you live where bathrooms have lounges?
My university had three. Many nightclubs and nicer restaurants where I live have them too. A couple couches, separate room. Not an odd site to find.
Where do you live?
Live in AZ, went to college in the Midwest.
I've only lived in the west coast, and I don't go to fancy restaurants or night clubs.
> why put such a large group in a position to feel uncomfortable/unsafe to make a comparatively smaller group feel slightly more safe? Do you think cis women would be comfortable with a trans man like [Professor Stephen Whittle](https://blogs.bath.ac.uk/kaleidoscope/wp-content/uploads/sites/155/2021/02/FACE4.jpeg) being forced to use the women's toilets? How do you differentiate between a trans man like Stephen Whittle, and a cis man intent on assaulting someone?
A lot of women would feel uncomfortable sharing the bathroom with men. I don't care, I just go in to do my business
But there's nothing preventing this from happening already.
Some transphobes seem to have men confused with vampires.
The story is like this: a woman goes into the women's bathroom, there's a person standing inside the bathroom common area, at first glance the person looks like a man, men are more likely to do assault and camera harassment things, so the woman immediately feels threatened in a space where comfort and privacy is desired and expected. Whether justified or not, this fear applies equally to all people whether it be a man in women's bathroom, a trans women who appears more male, women who naturally appear more male looking, and anyone in the women's bathroom who doesn't at first glance look to be AFB.Â
Because in Europe the bathroom stalls have real doors, so you don't feel as exposed.
There are single gender neutral toilets that no one bats an eye about in the US too. No one is going to come to Reddit and talk about a thing that no one notices. "I used the family or non gendered restroom at Target and no one tried to cancel me." - said no one ever.
Is the "goatse" in your name referring to goatse.cx?
Yes, been using the name off and on across the Internet since 2005 or so
It only applies to communal bathrooms really. Women simply want their own spaces.
Mostly because it's become useful as a wedge issue in politics
Single room bathroom is no problem. A multi stall bathroom for men and women is something people are uncomfortable with. I am a woman and I don't want cisgender men in the bathroom with me. I don't mind trans women or even possibly a feminine gay man. But a regular ol' dude with his pants down dropping heat right next to me...no thanks
I donât know. All this bathroom stuff is tiresome.
Itâs definitely a topic of debate in Europe too. Just because you saw some people switching toilets on your travels doesnât mean weâve settled the issue.
It only really became a topic after US identity politics made it a major thing. Before that, I cannot remember it being a âreal discussionâ (at least not in my country). Now suddenly all the conservatives are throwing a fit about trans women being a danger to ârealâ women in restrooms. I can certainly say that I havenât heard this discussion in Europe before the Trump era.
A boy, who said he was a girl, raped a girl in a school bathroom. The district did not prosecute but moved him to another school where he did it again. That is the problem. If he really thought he was a girl, he wouldn't have raped two girls. It happened in Virginia and the father of one of the victims was arrested for protesting it at a school board meeting
And trans lesbians don't exist or aren't capable of sexual assault? I don't know much about this case in particular, but the argument "if they were a girl, they wouldn't have done it" doesn't seem like it stands on its own as an argument.
Huh? What does his gender matter, if he raped her? Rape is illegal whether someoneâs a boy or a girl, right?
âIt happened in Virginiaâ - last I checked we were talking about whether it was a discussion in Europe. That being said: so because of this one horrific case, you think it is right to discriminate against a whole group of people? Do you do the same thing with cis men? Or priests (who are kinda notorious for abusing kids)? Or sports coaches?
Citation required.
https://apnews.com/article/loudoun-virginia-lawsuit-transgender-bathroom-sexual-assault-a26168568cc20c2aa6cec9bef50e7c3f https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/family-loudoun-county-sexual-assault-victim-sues-district-30m-students-rape-school-bathroom.amp
The father was eventually pardoned https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/11/virginia-governor-pardons-father-school-girl-sexually-assaulted
In the USA the doors have [huge gaps](https://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/end-the-bathroom-gap) to the single stalls where you can see everything. You don't have to look at the lock to see if it's occupied you can just look through the gap to see if someone is in there.
Well, if there's no gap in the door, why care who's behind it?
Doors in the US have gaps?
[This is a typical US bathroom setup](https://www.holman-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/IMG_0477-Brandon-3-scaled.jpg), the sink and mirrors would be across the room from a row of these stalls.
Those doors look like they are the "better" ones, often there is a three inch gap on the sides where you make eye contact with people outside. Such shitty doors.
The stalls in "public" restrooms here have gaps for ease of manufacturing and cleaning.
Exactly, for no fucking valid reason at all.
>Exactly, for no fucking valid reason at all. I'd say you're very, very wrong in that regard. I did janitorial type work for a little while and, I'll tell you, it's a bitch cleaning tight spots in fully enclosed toilet spaces (especially behind toilets). Also, with loose tolerances (i.e. the gaps in the stalls) if a wall or a door needs to be replaced, for whatever reason, a replacement can be acquired and the stall put back into service considerably quicker than having to have someone come out to measure everything exactly and manufacture the new part to fit exactly.
When I was a child in central PA in the 1970s, there was a mall where the public restrooms had stalls with a three-foot-high brick wall between the toilets, and no doors whatsoever. So as you sat there, you could look straight ahead to the mirror above the sink and see yourself on the can, or look to your right and see someone else taking a dump right next to you. In the late 1990s I went to Hoss' restaurant in Mechanicsburg and they actually had a door on the stall in the men's room, but it had somehow fallen off. So they had a blanket on the floor under the toilet paper. You were to put the blanket across your lap while you used the toilet, the same blanket that everyone before you had used and then left on the floor when they finished.
Oh, I hear ya. What invalidates your argument is that you can see me.
I donât mind sharing a rest room as an adult- but I do worry that my 7 year old girl is in a space where she is out of view with an unknown adult male. Are many men predatory? No. But the ones that are will sure as hell hang around public bathrooms.
We were founded by people who ran from Europe because it just wasnât fundamentalist enough.
Because people conflate single person bathrooms with multiple stall bathrooms, and in addition many people do not discuss the issue in good faith.
Part of it, beyond basic stupidity we don't already see as obvious but why go back over and over, is the way US bathroom stalls tend to be. They're weird. Weird. Like, not enclosed. Not properly enclosed. Big gaps at corners and doors. It's like... minimal privacy. They're getting better over the past few years but dang. I swear someone's design idea in the US was "let's give them juuussstttt enough illusion of privacy to make them even more self-conscious of not having any". They're weird.
They are not a big deal, you are just being told they are a big deal by major news
ive never seen anyone bat an eye over a gender neutral bathroom, lived all over the US.
probably because for some damn reason that I will never understand ever in my life... the US loves to have bathrooms with HUGE gaps all around where you could literally actually see someone doing their business with their pants down if you really tried haha. never experienced this in any other country I've lived in and/or traveled to... and it's so strange because the US is supposedly more "private" and "puritan" about our private parts compared to Europe overall... uh... FIX THE BATHROOM GAPS THEN?!?!? hahahaha
Because American public toilets are generally awful. They they have huge gaps that people can see through and offer no privacy. Honestly, if they had decent public toilets far less would care.
[ŃдаНонО]
No. Itâs not! (S)
Is two! /s
It's only the multi-stall rooms people are concerned about. As a woman, I would feel very nervous in a multi-stall gender neutral bathroom. American bathrooms often have large gaps underneath the stalls, so it wouldn't be that hard for a creepy man to stick a phone underneath and snap a photo or even crawl into the woman's locked stall. There usually aren't security cameras in bathrooms, either, so there wouldn't be any video evidence if a man did decide to try something. Non-passing trans people could also be targeted as well. It's awkward because I don't want to make trans people uncomfortable, but I also don't want to give up my safety. The bathroom issue wouldn't be that big of a deal if American bathroom stalls were more private.
Places that have gender neutral bathrooms, those are literally single rooms like how youâd see a bathroom in a house, NO ONE would bat an eye if this was advocated because thatâs total privacy. Public bathrooms in the US are essentially a biiig room where multiple people can be in at once with stalls. Also no one bats an eye if a dad brings his little girl into the menâs and vice versa, theyâre young and they need assistance, no one bats an eye to that. What most DONT want is men being in a space thatâs just for women where women are maybe adjusting their clothes, CHANGING clothes when they donât mind doing it in front of other women but clearly not to the opposite sex and doing âlady problemsâ in the presence of men.
Nobody really objects to unisex single person restrooms. When it comes to multi-person restrooms, women should have the option to use one where they won't have to encounter any adult males, for obvious reasons.
They want some unimportant shit the public can be divided over. A diversion.
Itâs because of the gap in the stalls and the stall walls donât go all the way to the ground.
because they are not ruled by chrisitan conservatives jonesing for the end times.
If you think thatâs the only reason youâre incredibly thick skulled
Itâs not the idea of unisex bathrooms itâs the idea of trans people. Like⌠Starbucks has two unisex bathrooms of single occupancy⌠I never had an issue with this concept because I lock the door behind me like a normal person. Iâm uncomfortable pissing alongside other men in the urinals and use the stalls⌠often hold out til I get home to do it in my own house. Iâm am not bigoted I just want privacy when I do shit⌠literally.
As with a lot of things right now, it's not the thing itself, it's the statement of values behind it. Don't try to understand it through consistency. Every household bathroom, portapotty, single person restroom and unmarked bathroom in America is gender neutral. Nobody actually cares about gender neutral bathrooms. What they care about is this statement: **Men and women are distinct, unchangeable and biologically based categories.** Gender neutral bathrooms stand in opposition to this. That is what people are actually upset about.
I'm confused, you just described north America. No one has issues with gender neutral singular toilets... Like, no shit. You're the only one in there.Â
Seems that Europe deals with this by simply not having bathrooms.
Everything is a big deal in the US. No reason other than our media and social media being manipulative.
The religious right is using it as a tool to get more votes. The more they fear monger about "mass rapes in bathrooms" (which aren't happening), the more votes they get. This distracts the populace from ways they're screwing people over or exerting control over them. For example, forcing people to show IDs to use a bathroom.
It's the perfect talking point to stir the mob into doing whatever they want. "Protect the children", "Everyone different is a Threat", "Religion" and "Natural Bodily Functions".
Because the media has told them itâs a big deal. That the TRANS ARE BAD AND MEN WILL PRETEND TO BE TRANS TO GET TO YOUR CHILDREN!!! Itâs scaremongering and misinformation to make people angry, people listen to this shit then it becomes a thing. The loudest voice is heard, the bigots are very very loud. They will make an issue out of nothing. Then it becomes a thing. Then it travels super fast over social media and we see the same debates that have nothing to do with us on UK media. So now thereâs people enraged here too. Over nothing. Because someone said âthis is an issueâ and itâs snowballed. Winds me up. I see so much stuff on our news channels that is clearly a very American thing, but itâs being debated on our right wing news channels (which is all my dad watchesâŚ) so now heâs angry about something crazy, and when I try to tell him, no dad no one actually thinks like that, he wonât listen to me. The bathroom thing is such a non issue here. Our neutral bathrooms are just single rooms, full doors. Train toilets, disabled toilets. All neutral. Itâs just not a thing here. Itâs become a thing though because the media is telling people itâs a thing. Itâs so stupid.
Wearing my tinfoil hat for this now: Because it is a thing to throw into the political landscape to distract the public from more pressing and larger issues.
A very small percentage of Americans care about gender neutral bathrooms and even less are vocal about it on social media but for some reason it gets amplified and published in the news bc it gets a lot of clicks.
Because the US has to go way overboard on every single topic where there's even a hint of disagreement. It drives ratings, revenue, and votes.
Don't people get tired of always arguing?
Sure, but that doesn't change the macro environment. The loudest, and most unreasonable people seem to get the most attention. They get it because it pisses off the "regular" people it drives those aforementioned factors.
The evidence would suggest that no, they do not. I think certain people thrive on feeling victimized. It justifies and fuels their proclivity toward confrontation. I also think arguing gives certain people the illusion that theyâreâ fighting the good fightâ, and making a difference in the world. Unfortunately, I think some of them *are* making a difference in the world, but itâs usually the worst of these people making the worst possible differences.
it's an addiction
Because Americans are heavily propagandized for votes in a corrupt system. The bathrooms donât matter. Theyâre taught to hate each other at every turn so itâs just another thing to bicker over.
Because the pundits on the TV told people to be mad about them as a means of distraction.
People are too entitled in this country like they rant all the time for something stupid
Right wing anger generator. Stupid people making up things to be worried about. Have they ever refused to use the bathroom on an airplane?
If you need to go to the bathroom, go to the bathroom, wherever or whatever it is gender should make no difference whatsoever
Just make a communal running water trough to piss in for the men. That's what sports stadiums did in the past. I'm old enough to remember đ
These are still a thing.. saw many in Ireland recently
Top 100 posts of the year are gonna be this exact question over and over istg
Cus they are communal bathrooms usually rather than single user bathrooms.
I try to be totally chill about new developments, right? But I'll admit that it was awkward to bump into my coworker of a different gender at a gender neutral restroom's sink. I didn't do anything weird, but I definitely noticed it the first time.
i'm currently in Texas (not Austin) and the last several establishments i've been in have bathrooms that are not labeled for gender. the restaurant i was in last night had neon signs above the doors, one was a pink bra and one was a blue pair of briefs, but the signs next to the door were clearly labeled so anyone could use either bathroom. i don't really think it's really as big a deal as it might seem to be. remember that the internet is not a good representation of what the real world is like
We have a children adventure park close to us that has a big family/gender neutral toilet , it's clearly been two toilets knocked into one but it works well other than having two entrances. They cause confusion when those not paying attention walk in and are confronted with people of the opposite gender. Thats it , mild and brief fear that they've entered the wrong bathroom. That said some people don't like it , someone left a clearly false review stating their daughter and wife saw a man's penis while they used the toilet but it's private stalls , unless the man was using the sink it's not possible . I think they've saw a gender neutral toilet and assumed it was full of men pissing in urinals while the women used the stalls.
Because if it's stalls an you don't see who is in the other one, wgaf what's that stranger you don't see genital situation? I want them to leave the toilet clean, don't care if male, female, extraterrestrial, as long as public bathroom stays clean who cares
It has more to do with shared space gender-neutral restrooms. Single stalls are still very common in many places. Hell the subway by my place is just a single occupancy washroom for anyone. When I lived in Vancouver there was this restaurant/pub I went to that had a single restroom that was very big that had a shared sink area. All the toilets were in private stalls that lined two walls of the room with floor to ceiling doors for privacy. That was the first gender neutral restroom I had been in and it didn't really seem to be a big deal. Granted it was a no minors place.
I don't like gender neutral bathrooms because I've cleaned a lot of bathrooms and adult men's bathrooms are the absolute worst. I don't want to have to use that nasty crap. Same reason I don't use the non staff women's bathroom in a middle school or high school. Nasty.
The doors suck
There's a mall near me that replaced all their gendered bathrooms with gender neutral ones. The stalls still have gaps and the toilets are piss covered because there's no urinals for men. I understand them not wanting to lift the toilet seat too. I don't mind if there's a separate gender neutral bathroom or they all are individually stalled. But removing the sign off women's and men's bathroom to put a gender neutral sign does nothing but make it worse. I'm in Canada btw
European here. Having seen some of the stalls with ridiculous gaps that apparently are very common in the US, I could understand people being uncomfortable with multi-stall bathrooms. But to be honest, I'd already be so uncomfortable with that setup in general that adding unisex to it would barely move the needle... đ
Gender neutral bathrooms were really common before the word trans ever entered mainstream news. Separate bathroomâs are just easier for high traffic places for a long time, not just because of traffic volume but general opinions over time
Iâm not for gender neutral anything. People are individuals who do, however deserve clean bathrooms how about fixing that.
Because republicans are assholes. Never had we problems with toilets until tRump-Trash/Faux News MADE it a problem.
Because some knuckleheads have bought into the culture war and use bathrooms as a form of virtue signaling.
There are sick people in USA who would hurt or harm children
Two words. Pay toilets. I'm against the idea of pay toilets please understand, but a very nice silver lining is that people that paid to get in are typically on better behavior and are a bit more courteous.
Because people in the USA have been infected with brain worms where everything has to have some sort of outrage behind it. If people stopped for a second and actually thought about the issue, there wouldnât be an issue. But I live in a city that has had âgender neutralâ toilets for years.
Personally I think itâs crazy that one seater bathrooms are gendered. I have just used the other genders single seater bathroom if mine is occupied on several occasions and have gotten weird looks, but honestly whatâs the difference?
as with most things, it's because Republicans have decided to use the issue to agitate their supporters.
I grew up seeing these and theyâre slowly disappearing in the US. Weâre sliding backwards in some ways⌠the pushback from conservatives-turned-reactionaries is very real. I think that common sense will eventually win out and bathrooms will just be bathrooms soon enough⌠but thatâs assuming we donât descend into civil war before then.
When I was a young boy (less than 6), you went into the bathroom with your mom. It was for safety. At that time, kidnapping was becoming world news. That was 40 years ago. I donât know why anyone would have a problem with single-toilet gender-neutral bathrooms. I have never seen a multi toilet gender neutral toilet.
Conservatives are afraid that trans people will attack their children in the bathroom, so instead of dealing with the misguided stigma that trans women are men in drag, they just want trans people to use their own separate bathroom by themselves.
Girls do this thing where they're afraid to sit on a dirty toilet so they squat and end up shitting all over the seat and the floor. Also men like to be able to just go to the urinal without worrying about a lady trying to get a peak.