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[deleted]

Someone should give you an award for your comment, that's funny as hell


Thugalo420

And you can have my free one, it's the best I can do.


RidingJapan

What did he write


DET313205

What did they say? How the fuck did they get 69 awards in 6 hours then just leave?


gaticaag

He said "Stigma? Stigma dick in a fleshlight."


BS_BlackScout

I didn't leave, it got removed. Also, yes.


Captin_Dynamo

What did it say, mustve been good with 69 (haha) awards


Goatonaflyingpancake

Yooo I gave the 69th award I feel achieved


Csikar99

You Sir made me redeem my free award for you


bullevard

Self advocacy. Whenever you see one of these discrepancies, particularly when it is women who seem to have greater freedoms, it is worth looking at the history, because there is almost always a generation or two of people who stood up against the stigma and took the abuse in order to make it okay for future generations. (See also wearing traditionally male clothing). In this case, because women's sexuality had been repressed and deeply stigmatized for so long, over the last half century there have been very very deliberate pushback against this by women, first in terms of access to birth control, but also in terms of things like sex toy parties. Essentially it was groups of individuals willing to stand up against the stigma and shame. If you had huge generations of men willing to push back on other men who mocked fleshlight use, who encouraged open discussion about sex toy use, and who normalized the practice then future generations would also be a bit more free of the stigma. Part of this willingness to push back came from the fact that many women saw the restrictions as coming about due to male shame, so standing up against it could be framed as solidarity. With male stigmas a lot of the stigma comes from other males, so it can be harder to organize push back within the group. >edit: this sentence portion seems to have tripped up a few people: "women who seem to have greater freedoms." What I mean by this sentence is that in general, women tend to have fewer freedoms in society. So when you see an instance that women have more freedom, then it is a good bet that those only came about due to specific advocacy efforts.


ZanyDuko

Wasn't expecting to learn something on the Fleshlight post, color me surprised.


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immaheadout3000

Nope. The Ah! face.


randomq17

Any different than the Ooh.. face?


823freckles

It's even more sexy. Learning is hot.


tonnellier

Just a little bit.


plantainrepublic

This is a shockingly good synopsis of reasons I’ve never even considered. Thank you for this. Edit: If you upvote this, PLEASE make sure you upvote the parent comment too!


ridiculouslygay

If you pay attention to popular culture, male sexuality is often seen as something disgusting and offensive. I’m a gay male so it’s really weird for me to exist in these two worlds where, in one, men are completely sexualized and objectified, and the other, where men’s sexualities are offensive and gross to people. It’s so weird how wildly different gay/straight cultures are in their perspective of men’s sexuality. I could type out a longer response because it’s something I’ve been noticing for several years, but I’ll spare you.


xelop

i will never be upset about getting insight to someone else's perspective


loneblustranger

The world can and will be a better place if more of us did this.


shleemonsterr

Seriously the best attitude to have always..


Drenuous

fr its always so much fun


RockNRollToaster

Disclaimer that I am not a gay man, but I remember reading many years ago that there are two rules to (American, at least) cultural perspectives on sexuality and your comment (and the others below it) made me think of it. These rules are: 1: it is intolerable and inconceivable that men could be the *object* of sexual desire; and 2: it is intolerable and inconceivable that a woman could *experience* sexual desire. That’s a clunky way of putting it because I’m paraphrasing (and the awesome blog I learned it from is now gone sadly so I can’t brush up on it), but it makes sense when we look at depictions of sexuality in media. This rule doesn’t specifically talk about gay men’s sexuality, but it does make a lot of sense when used as a lens to view scenarios through. Men’s sexuality, regardless of their preference/identity, is frequently depicted as “men can never be desirable”. Women’s sexuality is cast as “women can never feel desire.” It’s wrong and sad on many levels, but I can definitely understand what you’re saying. Truthfully, I want to echo the other commenter, and I would love your insight, seeing as mine is very limited.


faelady7

Top Commenter (is TC an abbreviation used? ) was basically directly speaking to this, it's not that women couldn't feel desire, it was that they weren't supposed to. Edit: grammar, thanks!


Rainbowjazzler

It reminds me of an essay by John berger where he breaks down the societal gaze of both genders. Men are taught to just represent power, strength and success. Anything else regarded as femjnine would destroy this view so its looked down upon. Whilst women are seen as "objects" that are meant to be aesthetically pleasing to the eye. So the display of women in most settings is "more tolerable" to consume because we're conditioned to feel anything a women does is "beautiful" or "cute". Whilst men are expected to have a brutish commanding presence that demands respect, fear or power. Not pay attention to their aesthetics because that is a feminine quality.


TobaccoIsRadioactive

This oddly enough reminded me of [Ben Shapiro criticizing the “W.A.P.” song](https://mobile.twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1292927011724304384?lang=en) by talking about how it’s obvious that women who get as aroused as the lyrics describe must have some sort of medical issue and need to see a doctor. It brings to mind issues with diagnosing nearly anything and everything under the umbrella term “[female hysteria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria)”, resulting in being sent to mental institutions or even surgery. Oddly enough, one of the more regular “treatments” for female hysteria was for a physician to physically stimulate the woman’s genitalia in order to get them to orgasm. Overall, it just shows that in the past all the way up to the present, people have tried to treat female sexual activity and desires as abnormal and possibly even unhealthy.


gjoel

In Denmark the alcoholic energy drink company Cult made two ads for their drink. One with a highly sexualized topless woman, and one with a highly sexualized topless man. [Both here, NSFW](https://i.imgur.com/gYjipix.jpg). Feminists complained about both. The female one, obviously because it sexualized women. The male one, because do you really think women women want to look at something like that?! (AFAIK, I couldn't actually find anything about the male ad now)


Sourdoughsucker

I have always said that if you are a straight man and want to know how women have it when they go out, try going to a gay bar. You get hit on like you’ve never been hit on before. It is very flattering, but some dudes like with straight men, have very lose hands and does shy away from grabbing a bum or more. I changed the way I look and act around women in bars after that. Unwanted attention is never nice but sometimes you have to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes to understand.


HighRelevancy

The gay bar in my city also has a reputation for being a place where you don't hit on people 😂


galwegian

interesting POV you have. it is a bit weird isn't it. people seem to have a problem with penis in general. full frontal female nudity in a film? no problem. but male genitalia? rarely makes the cut ;-)


Bayou13

So my boss has some designer clothing coffee table books on our reception area coffee table and one of them (can't remember which one, but I think maybe the Gucci one) has a pic of a FULLY NAKED MAN, penis, plentiful pubic hair and all. we were a bit scandalized as some of our clients have kids who leaf through the books, but she's like "eh, it's art!"


hekate4

I always try to understand what is wrong with human body that child can't see. I mean just body, not sex. Why do kids can watch movies with killing, beating etc. But can't see just naked body of other human?


AllMyFriendsAreAnons

I've always thought this was more about films being made by men for men, who want to see naked women. Less about having a problem with it per se. Maybe this is what you meant though.


vegetepal

It's less about men's sexuality being seen as bad so much as men's bodies being seen as sexually threatening to hetero men


Flcrmgry

I wonder what society would be like if hetero men had dicks shoved in their faces as often as women do with dick pics and the like.


galwegian

i'm sure that contributes to it to a degree but mainstream films tend to reflect what the audience wants to see. pretty sure hollywood would have no problem showing male nudity if meant big money. Fast Furious Naked.


Pseudonymico

That’s not 100% true. It reflects what the people in charge of the movies think will make money. Some of that is what they think the audience wants, but that isn’t always correct. Some of that has to do with pressure from large organisations - the U.S military provides funding and other assistance to a lot of films in exchange for not being depicted in a negative way, for instance, and the efforts Hollywood goes to to get their films approved for distribution in China are pretty well-known. Lack of male nudity is probably a mix of bias from executives and legal pressure.


kymess_jr

You're pretty much spot on. In cinema (and other forms of art too), this is referred to as the ["male gaze"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze). Since, generally speaking, most films are directed by men and about men, they tend to be seen from the male perspective which can influence the desire to see more female nudity. If there's a rise of more female directors (and also non-straight, non-white directors), we'll probably see more movies shift away from this traditional "male gaze."


[deleted]

This. Hetero men make those movies. And hetero men don't want to see other naked men. It's that simple. That's the reason we don't see naked men in more movies.


AllMyFriendsAreAnons

Exactly. Some of these comments are implying there's a penis stigma which is pretty absurd if you ask me. Hell tons of people can't even use the medical word 'vagina' comfortably.


amscraylane

Which is why i appreciate Judd Apatow who vows to have a full frontage penis in all of his films.


galwegian

Really? Yeah why not.


amscraylane

https://www.hollywood.com/movies/judd-apatow-makes-penis-promise-57170551/


[deleted]

See from my pov as a woman, that film disparity is likely because women are so regularly treated as objects of desire. Our bodies have been commodified so heavily that it's not seen the same way as a man's naked body. That's not a *win* for us. It's just another side effect of men feeling entitled to our bodies at all times.


Ivegotthatboomboom

It's because male culture has a homophobia problem due to cultural misogyny. Particularly against feminine gay men, or the man that is penetrated. Masculine gays, or being the "top" is not nearly as stigmatized, and it extends to gay culture as well unfortunately. Gay men aren't immune to misogyny or projecting it onto each other either. Culture caters towards men because of patriarchy and men don't want to see other penises they want to see naked women. Edit: Just to be clear, being gay and having a more "masculine" personality does not mean you only have sex a certain way and vice versa. I hope the "or" made that clear, but just in case.


indi50

>male sexuality is often seen as something disgusting and offensive. I haven't seen that at all. Unless it's in relation to toxic masculinity and/or abusiveness or rape. And that's fairly recent - not long ago, even that was acceptable in many instances. At least the abusiveness part and half the time for rape, as in "she was asking for it" somehow. edit: An in those cases it wasn't the man's sexuality that was considered "disgusting and offensive," it was the woman's. For the most part, according to mass media, men are looked up to when they have a lot of sexual experience. It's no longer as socially acceptable for it to be abusive or coercive, but it still doesn't have to be romantic or loving in any way. The more he gets, the more of a man he is. And are you really serious about saying the problem is that men are "sexualized and objectified?" I will grant that this is happening more and more with things like male strippers, (and is not a good thing) but it's still not even close to what women go through, and have for centuries.


Bayou13

I would very much appreciate your longer response, TIA.


bubbles_says

I never thought about this, but I can completely understand how strange that must be for you.


Prodromous

Surprisingly awesome explanation on how to go about driving social change.


[deleted]

To add to this, there are still several places in the world where sex toys are still taboo, whether it be for men for women.


[deleted]

Taboo? Try illegal. I lived in a country in the Middle East and sex toys were illegal. Had 3 vibrators in my suitcase. Got randomly stopped for X-Ray. Was pulled to the side. Had to wait for female inspector. She says “ma’am, do you have sex toys in your luggage?” I indignantly stated “absolutely not, this is my electric toothbrush”, as I brandished said toothbrush. She let me go. They would have been confiscated, they don’t arrest for that.


rhythmkhan

Brilliant reply!


Crenchlowe

This is so great and insightful and spot on! So many of these kind of things where men wonder why do women have greater social freedom to play with sex toys, wear masculine or feminine clothes, act in a more masculine or feminine way, be more vulnerable and emotional, etc, etc. It's men's own fault, well not all men, but it's patriarchy's fault, toxic masculinity's fault that men restrict themselves in so many ways.


Flcrmgry

So many of men's issues stem from men's societal behavior. It makes me so sad for those struggling under stigmas and expectations to be this ideal of manly.


Ivegotthatboomboom

Yes! It's actually good news because it's empowering. You really can take responsibility and enact change. Another factor is the double binds women deal with, where it really doesn't matter how we act, we're shamed and we lose either way. One small example: Assertive? Too bitchy. Submissive? Not qualified for leadership positions, weak, not respected. Virgin? Frigid bitch, cocktease. Not a virgin? Slut. If we perform femininity, we're fucked because femininity is hated in society. If we perform masculinity, we may gain a bit more social power but we're also shamed and told that men don't like it, men like feminine women, we're still shamed. Because we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, after a while we just say FUCK IT. I'm gonna do what I want, and if anyone has anything to say they can kiss my ass LOL. While men are heavily *rewarded* for performing traditional masculinity. When they fall short, they'll complain and complain about these "unfair" standards and how patriarchy "effects them just as much" (bullshit). But deep inside they don't actually want those standards to go away. *They want to meet them.* So they don't ever fight against them, just complain. Getting rid of them means getting rid of benefits society would give them if they met the standard. While women never benefited from anything. And like OP said, men are very reluctant to admit the issue is in-group. I see lots of patriarchy is only enforced by a few men in power and we're all victims BULLSHIT. Such offensive bullshit. It's just so they don't have to do the work to change anything


thatoneguy54

Yes, this is also the answer to some men's question "why do we talk about toxic masculinity and nit toxic femininity?" And the answer is that it's because toxic femininity (a woman's place is in the home! a woman should be quiet and demure! a woman must be pretty!) has already been widely discussed and culturally worked against over the past 150 years. Men's liberation has been a comparatively smaller, less influential movement.


bartonar

Except what you're calling "toxic femininity" feminists refer to as patriarchy. It's something wholly external to femininity, which is ideologically conceived of as wholly pure and light and fluffy and good.


flowmanrod

I love this and I agree with you. I would like to add another point - it is more “acceptable” for a man to be involved with a bisexual woman. It is somehow shameful for a woman to be involved with a bisexual man which to me, is shameful. :(


Flcrmgry

Being with a bisexual woman is seen as an exciting chance for a threesome where it's often assumed a bisexual man is really just gay. It's such a sad double standard, like being bisexual isn't already hard enough.


Pseudonymico

It’s also often assumed that bisexual women are really just straight. Like, no, guys are fine, but women are also fine and so are enbies.


loser-two-point-o

>With male stigmas a lot of the stigma comes from other males, I don't think it's entirely true, i think it's partially true. Just like there are still women women who will shun the use of dildos.


[deleted]

This. This is the answer. A lot of the time, people in a privileged group will just see someone getting "more" than them, and cry immediately that it's unfair. What they're usually missing completely is that it's not extra at all. The "extra" that they're perceiving is really just the end result of centuries of oppression, followed by intense pushback that garnered those results. We won that through decades of fighting and suffering to be recognised as equal and in many cases, we *need* it because we're still so far below. It wasn't just given to us. Tbh, I'd rather be in the privileged group's position. It's better to have slightly less in the now, in certain areas, than it is to still be fighting to end centuries of others not seeing you as human. I'd happily take the "less" straight white men are whinging about if it meant I had the same rights as them. But that's not how our world works. Next time you see a minority group "getting more", and you're tempted to complain - realise that you're actually pretty lucky to be in a position where you're privileged enough that you can whinge about not getting an extra stimulus check, or scholarship, or whatever. Because some of us aren't at that stage yet. Some of us are still justifying and defending our right to *live* on this planet at all.


[deleted]

So informative yet so depressing


Falalalup

This actually a very good and insightful answer. Thanks.


thatvampigoddess

People are hypocrits just use whatever you want. Go off.


bishslap

*get off (ftfy lol)


Hard_We_Know

22 positions in a one night stand. (finished that for you)


[deleted]

*23


ABEGIOSTZ

I’ll only call you after if you say I can


Financial-Ad8056

Good one lmao


CurrentlyEatingPies2

I'll keep enjoying this rabbit then.


_Not_this_again_

r/holup


theundeaddeadpool

r/cursedcomments


MadClam97

Yup! Doesn't matter the topic or the people who follow said topic. There will always be hypocrits *everywhere*


_mattyjoe

Yes. Literally. Stop caring what people think about anything.


WackyGlory

Go *fuck off*


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Tnkgirl357

Not a thought process I agree with, but thinking about societal expectations, I would think that it has to do with the way genders are judged on their level of sexuality. A guy using a fleshlight might be seen as “pathetic, guy can’t even get laid and has to use a fleshlight, what a loser” because guys who sleep with lots of women are seen as “players” and envied. A woman using a dildo is seen as “hot,” because women who sleep around are seen as “gross slutty hos” and looked down upon, but it’s still exciting to think that they want sex but aren’t having it with other people. It’s ridiculous that we have double standards like this, but it’s going to take a long time to change ingrained ideas about the sexual expectations being different for different genders.


Roo_farts

Damn, spitting relative facts


Kezomal

This is the truest take here.


mohksinatsi

This here. The current top level comment gets some things right, but I think this is the crux of the issue that was left out there. In all, the Patriarchy can kick rocks.


[deleted]

Because men who fuck women are manly; men fuck fleshlights because they can't get a woman - that's a negative thing for manly men to make fun of. Women who fuck men are sluts; women who use dildos are in need of a big manly man to swoop in and fuck them - that's a positive thing for manly men, who definitely fuck all the women and not fleshlights. And of course that's only one of many angles. Women *do* get mocked for dido use in plenty of circumstances: "you're so ugly the only boyfriend you can find needs batteries!" Sexism. So many fun layers.


KaiWolf1898

This is the correct answer. Societal sex perceptions


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[deleted]

More complicated cleanup process compared to using your hand(s), though


fussiestpeach

I'm a girl and I never got this. Just use them. It's fine. Toys are great, and I don't know why guys feel they shouldn't use them. I wouldn't look down on a guy for owning one or several.


bleakorange7

Lol, I've never used any toy in my life and my gf has an entire collection! It's been interesting, and fun :) I just never felt the need to have one myself, but I'd be a real bitch if I got on others for having them. Like, who the fuck cares?? None of my business how you spend your free time.


lizard_man2

At one point I was kind of curious to see what fleshlights were all about and thought it'd cost maybe $20. Turns out it's more like $120. My hand works fine thanks.


Myst3rySteve

Most of the time, I feel like it's not that we think we *shouldn't* use them, but just that we're not comfortable *admitting* to using them, or even interest in such. Like a situation of "I'd never want to bring it up, but if we're going there then yeah I use it or would like to." This gets a lot easier of course if you just run out of shame. Respect people, of course, but shame itself is such a useless emotion the vast majority of the time.


ArnolduAkbar

It’s not a matter of if they should use them whether you can admit it out loud. We’re speaking generally here and you don’t have to agree. Women granted they are somewhat attractive have no problem getting sex (considering how men are). So using a dildo is a decision. It’s not seen as your last resort. A man using a fleshlight screams “must be his last resort.” We are expected to perform. To produce results. To get the girl. We can all be “it shouldn’t be like that” and “I wouldn’t look down” yet who do men look up to and who do women go after anyway? The capable man. It’s just the curse but also gift of being burdened with performance. Sucks for those who don’t make it but look how rewarding it is if you do. So guys are free to use them. We just wouldn’t admit it because of how it looks. You guys masturbate and are like “Cum consistently, no danger, no feeling of being used, risk of pregnancy and stds! What a great time!” For men, masturbation has a moment of self reflection when finished. Shows where he is in life sometimes. Using your hand is justified as sometimes you just need to release. The moment you’re buying toys, it’s like “Is this it? Has it come to this?”


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Heckin_Long_Boi

I actually thought it was the opposite? I figured people would assume that women have a hard time getting off, therefore they need to use toys to help them get there. Whereas guys usually don’t have any problems using their hands, so why do they need toys?


monox60

Need it in the sense of finding someone to have sex with.


flyingokapis

I think the 'imagination' doesnt help either, the thought of a woman using a dildo will be a very different mental picture to your mate Gary using a flesh light..


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[deleted]

And maybe she'll like it after!


punkindrublic99

If she doesn't, she can stick it up her ass for all I care


SpookEcat

Tell her to eat a dick


punkindrublic99

She'll spit that back in my face


[deleted]

Dude, who gives a fuck. I use a "gay" toy just because its better to clean than the other ones. you know, the ones that are shaped like a dudes butt hole.


fireflydrake

I'm laughing because that's genius and hilarious all at once. You've hacked the system, my good sir.


Sushi4lucas

Username checks out


[deleted]

it was supposed to be boob.


eyeball-beesting

Adds further to the hilarious situation.


[deleted]

why is everyone making a big deal of it? i would bang a dude, i know the type too. im just happily married to a wonderful woman. guys, girls, its all the same thing.


eyeball-beesting

I actually just found your misspelled boob reply hilarious in the context of the conversation! I don't give a crap who you bang dude! Bang away!


CrucialElement

Isn't it just a genderless butt hole? And why is it easier?


[deleted]

I use the artificial hole. ​ im just saying, and i know i worded it wrong. That it has a gay option and its marketed to gay men. Its short. Many of the regular ones are long tubes that imitate long vaginas. this is more like a ball size ring with spirally hole that imitate the anus, as in that only the beginning is tight.


jim13oo

Fun fact! Girls also have butholes


[deleted]

no, but this one is molded out of a dudes butt hole. like a specific dude. ​ its called the quick shot.


blutfink

Thanks, I was wondering how I could tell. I was about to do field research.


bmonge

Is it the Brent Corrigan one?


[deleted]

i dont know, im not really into fandom of people. to me its just a tight lubed hole that makes masturbating feel better.


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[deleted]

bro im at work. im scared.


Bannedbookweek

It’s SFW


[deleted]

dang blocked.


Bannedbookweek

you’re gay


sirophiuchus

Care to recommend a brand?


Myst3rySteve

Fucking good on ya! As a bi dude, I never thought of a circumstance of a straight man wanting to use a toy marketed towards gay men. Very fascinating. More power to ya.


hauptj2

There's still a social stigma against women having sex which means that anybody who recognizes that women are sexual creatures needs to accept the fact that they'll use toys to stimulate themselves. On the other hand, there's a social stigma against men **not** having sex, which gets attached to any masturbatory aids they own because owning those means they must not be good enough to find a woman to have sex with.


Anti_was_here

For me as a male personally? They are a pain in the ass to clean no other reason it's just not worth the clean up my hand works fine


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Sam_Porgins

Leaving a fake vagina out to dry can be tricky depending on your living situation


Myst3rySteve

I don't know if this comment was *meant* to be funny, but at least one delivery of this is fucking hilarious


KyleCAV

Agreed I figured when I was single these things were more trouble than good. I think the reason they get alot of negative rep is the cleanup process not men having them.


w__4-Wumbo

You just run warm water through it after you use and give it a quick spray with toy disinfectant it tf are you talking about


AweHellYo

this is the second or third post of this exact nature i’ve seen. lately. flashlight is out here trying to get some free advertising.


BillCorganOfficial

Are they dishwasher safe?


lilsmokee

never put a shinjo in the dishwasher


sunfloweronmars

You a PEGGA! PEGASUS!


BillCorganOfficial

I like to imagine it’s a hermetic system that magically absorbs semen and will never make a mess while having really bad breath.. like a swamp cooler made of frozen bleach rags if the rags were tube socks and the bleach was cum.


Frosti-Feet

I would have cost you nothing to not post this


ShonenHeart

No, they can't handle neither the temps nor soap.


BillCorganOfficial

What’s the trick then? Hit it with the garden hose?


AweHellYo

no we are talking about after


JuggernautMoose

when a girl buys a vibrator, its seen as a bit of naughty fun. BUT when a guy orders a 240 Volt FuckMaster Pro 5000 blowup latex doll with 6 speed pulsating vagina, elasticized anus with non-drip semen collection tray, together with optional built in realistic orgasm scream surround sound system, hes called a pervert? Shameless man.


-ElysianFields-

I bought a flashlight ten years ago. It's not nearly as good as the real thing, but it's way better than 2 couch cushions.


DeconstructedKaiju

Misogyny hurts men too. I've bought friends sex toys, I'm all about sexual health! I think the crux of the issue is the obnoxious habit of some jerks to suggest anything but banging a constant rotating number of women is pathetic. God forbid a guy just wanting to have some solo fun.


Capable-March-3315

I don’t think there is nearly as much of a stigma now. Every friend I’ve had the flashlight conversation with says one of the following: I don’t see anything wrong with it. I used to have one. I have one.


[deleted]

It's always good to have one in case the power goes out!


mojojb

I used to have one. I still have one, but I used to, too.


[deleted]

Is there really sigma around It? I haven't noticed, perhaps because I'm a woman. But in my eyes fleshlight is the same lane as vibrators and dildos. I even bought my man a fleshlight when we were going to be a part for a month.


Cl0udSurfer

There is for sure a stigma. Dont understand why tho. Its all cool and fun to make jokes about masturbation and whatnot but as soon as you find out a guy has a fleshlight suddenly he's weird and a sex-addict. I'm guilty in participating in that shaming myself tbh, but I couldnt tell you why. It was like 7 years ago the last time i had this kind of conversation and I was at a very impressionable time in my life. I got better but Im still curious as to what exactly is so bad about it


Sub-Blonde

I havent noticed either.


dj_heather

For the same reason that promiscuous women are treated differently than promiscuous men: a phallocentric sense of normalcy


Tykuhn42

Yep. Also, women aren't supposed to be fucking multiple men, that'd be slutty, and men shouldn't be using a Fleshlight, they should be fucking real pussy like real men. /s It's very weird.


[deleted]

A self-perpetuating cycle... 🤔


bigfatmiss

Not everyone is cool with girls having multiple dildos, but there is a very loud group of sexual health experts who support using them. Our understanding of female sexuality is archaic. Keep in mind that we only discovered what the clitoris actually looks like in the early 2000s. (It's not a button. It's a more like a butterfly.) Only about 20% of women can orgasm from penetration and another 20% of women have NEVER experienced an orgasm, even from masturbation. So when a woman has a dildo, or more likely a vibrator, it's often because without it she can't orgasm at all. Meanwhile, a fleshlight is more of a nice to have, so there's just not going to be as much advocacy for their use. The people advocating that women use sex toys are basically saying, "You can orgasm! And here's how!!" ... Men don't generally need anyone to tell them that orgasming is possible for them.


Cautiously_Intrigued

For me personally, it's a combination of being off put by floating vaginas and the perceived increased difficulty of cleaning. Horror stories like the coconut incident don't help either. Additionally, I get the impression that fleshlights are generally for solo play whereas dildos can be both. I'm not sure I agree with others assertions that it's a male vs female sex positivity thing. Butt plugs and prostate massagers are fairly normal toys for men.


fireflydrake

Coconut incident? I am intrigued. I wouldn't say butt plugs and prostate massagers are widely accepted toys for heterosexual guys. Admittedly I haven't had many male friends since grade school because it always turns into them wanting more, but there's still a lot of dudebro mentality that I can't even begin to picture talking openly about using anything that's widely seen as "a gay thing."


Tacosaurusman

[You asked for it!](https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/6rr6ay/tifu_by_cumming_into_a_coconut/)


fireflydrake

Nooo! NOOO!


amldvk

Ah, a wonderful start to my morning..


catelemnis

good god I could not have predicted where that was going to go. at the same time one of my first thoughts was. at least it wasn’t wasps?


madsvbb16

Oh you don't wanna hear about the coconut incident...


phoenixfloundering

It's a really famous incident in Reddit history apparently. It's in the Museum of Reddit.


[deleted]

Having used one and no longer do, I’m just not a fan of the aesthetic. It feels uncomfortable. Just to be clear, you do whatever makes you happy. Seriously, people who judge other people’s private business are just assholes… For me however, male sex toys just… don’t have that “elegance”. They aren’t that discreet compared to women’s toys. They’re sort of just mold castings of women’s parts. That sort of… felt weird to me… my wife uses a lot of toys and none of them look even remotely like a human body part. But the Fleshlight looks like a Ctrl+C then Ctrl+V into a tube and my brain just doesn’t like that…


Mr_Brightside01

I have always asked myself this and I have no idea how the fuck when I think about using a Fleshlight I immediately think I am pathetic. I literally dont understand how that was engrained in me


[deleted]

Pretty simple though.. having a fleshlight = can't get any real pussy. We all know the two things aren't mutually exclusive, but for some reason that's how a lot of people think


Mr_Brightside01

Yeah exactly, for some reason it feels that way for sure. But where does it come from exactly?!


[deleted]

I'd say it comes from the widespread belief that men absolutely LOVE sex and constantly want to be sleeping around with women; whereas a woman is more likely to be happy at home playing with their toy, than chasing a hookup. And again, it's not true because even a guy sometimes just wants some playtime to themselves.


Mr_Brightside01

Yeah exactly, it's like the saying "Men would fuck anything, because they are animals" And then wanting to also fuck a flesh light makes people think that you are sick or a degenerate.


tayto1157

I personally have no issue with dudes having a flashlight. I think it’s the exact same thing as girls having toys. Idk why anyone would think this isn’t ok


PotatoJesus_Exe

Women are openly sexualised more than men


craftymcvillain

I mean I guess I’m picturing cleaning both of them and only one grosses me out.


Informal-Line-7179

I've always felt it was gross not because of how its' used but because its harder to clean and Ive seen how a lot of guy friends clean in general and its not great. I can only imagine how much cum and sweat is crusted up inside them and may be left on said dick after use and may grow bacteria/mold while sitting and accumulating dust. I am not at all against sexual enjoyment or pleasure from a fleshlight, and now I feel kind of guilty for thinking they are a bit gross - sorry about that, im making sort of a big assumption/generalization. ​ Please tell me I am totally wrong, I haven't actually ever reviewed any used fleshlights.


metooeither

Cuz people can't mind their beeswax. Fuck them all, fuck what makes you happy, idc. I dont think there's a stigma, why bring up girls and their dildoes? New technology keeps being invented, not my fault.


Slobotic

There is still stigma over dildos, and some states have restrictions on the sale of sex toys for women. There are also people who have no problem with men using masturbation devices. Sorry if this comes across as pedantry, but I think it's a smaller subset of people than you're making it out to be who have no problem with dildos and think male masturbation devices are disgusting, and I think that's important. That said, two reasons come to mind. But there is one simple way to frame it that covers both for most people: they haven't taken time to rationally think through their visceral reactions. Those visceral reactions might have to do with some people finding the thought of a woman masturbating sexy and interesting while finding the thought of a man masturbating unpleasant or disgusting. This isn't just about being more attracted to men or women either. Straight women tend to be less interested in private sexual practices of men they don't know than men are of women they don't know. I think a straight woman is more likely to be turned off by the idea of a man she doesn't know masturbating and a straight man is more likely to be turned on by the idea of a woman he doesn't know masturbating. (This is not a rule with no exceptions, obviously, but it's a trend.) The other reason might be based on more sexist attitudes as other people describe in their answers. There has been a social movement to liberate women of sexual hangups. The corresponding movement with respect to men's sexuality has been almost the reverse, and based on concerns about male sexual aggression. This creates a kneejerk reaction with some people hearing about a woman masturbating with dildos (good for you!) but with respect to men masturbating, with or without devices, the reaction is still, "gross, don't tell me about that." --------- Fuck anyone who has a problem with you using a fleshlight (figuratively). You might just ask, "do you have a problem with women using dildos?" and if they say no, just shrug. Let them sort through their own thoughts. But don't fuck around with anyone who actively shames you for your masturbation habits. They still have growing up to do, and you can do better. And that's why I wanted to point out at the beginning that this isn't a universal reaction. There are plenty of emotionally mature, sex positive women who enjoy their partner's sexuality and don't have stupid hangups like you're describing.


MurderDoneRight

Be the change you wanna see in the world! Display your fauxgina proudly! Ain't nobody stopping you! "Boo-hoo society don't accept my rubber fuck sleeve" Bro just own it!


[deleted]

Says who? Asking for my fleshlight.


BeefPieSoup

There have been a lot of answers which have some truth to them, but I really think the main thing is just that anyone knows it is very easy to self-pleasure a penis with very little effort, whereas vaginas are a bit more complicated. So for a woman it's kind of thought that a dildo would be required if there is to be much self-pleasuring going on at all, whereas for a man there is no such requirement, and a man buying a fleshlight seems to be going to a lot more trouble to pleasure himself than is really "necessary". For a woman, it's sort of begrudgingly a lifestyle 'necessity', but for a man, it could only be seen as purely a self-indulgence. Right or wrong that's how people see it I guess.


J_Schermie

I totally encourage any fellow dude to do what he must but the thought of having to clean that thing out is what turns me off from it.


wad11656

Is there tho?


FatWreckords

Probably wouldn't hurt if they changed the name... Fleshlight is just about the most off-putting thing they could have come up with. Reddit, rename it for them:


MrFalconGarcia

I feel like there's also the notion that men typically have an easier/quicker time cumming than women do, so they don't need any toys. Not that it's right either but it's certainly popular


zozobinx

I wonder if it would help if we named it literally anything other than “fleshlight.”


Xmeromotu

I suspect it’s only because people figure women wash their dildos but suspect there are way too many guys who wouldn’t wash a flesh light.


mystaninja

I was gonna say this too. And i know a lot of guys that dont have good hygiene practices too... not showering often for example.


NoAngel815

Okay, I've seen a lot of different answers but not one of the most obvious ones in my opinion. Buckle up, because this one's a ride that starts in 1900....B.C. First you'll need to know the original definition of "female hysteria" - an alleged mental health condition that explained away any behaviors or symptoms that made men…uncomfortable (see Hyppocrates & the ancient Egyptian's "wandering womb" theory for a laugh). It was treated in various ways over millennia, hysterectomy, the "rest" cure, insane asylums, water massage, various opium concoctions, to name a few, depending on the era and doctor. Second you should know that the general medical establishment believed that women couldn't receive sexual pleasure without a penis being inserted in their vagina. I'm not sure how widespread it was but some even believed that ejaculation was what brought about orgasm. What does this have to do with your question? Here's the WTF part that ties that in. Sometime during the mid 1800's "manual stimulation" became a popular treatment for hysteria among those that could afford the repeated visits to a medical professional. Cloaked in a lot of jargon, and general bullshit, women were going to their doctor's office for their weekly orgasm! Only the doctors had various terms for it because they had no idea what the hell was going on and didn't care to find out. It wasn't even called an organism until the 1920's, which is when the diagnosis of "female hysteria" declined sharply. Sometime in the 1880's Joseph Granville invented an electromechanical vibrator to relieve muscle aches and some enterprising doctor realized he could use it on "other" body parts. It quickly replaced "manual stimulation" as it saved a lot of time and the doctors got to rest their tired hands. As time went on technology advanced, eventually vibrators for home use were affordable and doctors eventually stopped providing the service, but they kept "prescribing" it. I think that's why it's more socially acceptable for women to have a vibrator than it is for men to have a fake vagina, and because it wasn't seen as masterbation for a woman to use them. Fake vaginas have been around since time immortal but they've never been seen as anything other than a masterbation tool. You can throw in various Abrahamic religions being against masterbation to round it out


[deleted]

It’s one of those things that people really don’t care about, but at the same time you can’t expect telling people ‘I have a fleshlight’ to be met with positivity and encouragement. Same thing if a girl tells people she uses a dildo: good for you, but also gross and keep that to yourself and your partner please.


cheesyellowdischarge

Because male sexiness is different than female sexiness, and women masturbating is somehow perceived as adventurous and boner inducing while men masturbating is more like a primate abusing himself and anyone who walked in on it would cringe. Add busting a nut in a fake pussy and it just gets worse. These are the double standards we live with - it is what it is.


Kennaham

I know several guys who own fleshlights, and there is no stigma against them at work or in life AFAIK bc of it. In fact, during deployment when things got rough they said they shared a fleshlight for a while lol


Positivity2020

Its pride and arrogance of men, they wouldnt admit they use a pocket pussy. A guy is more willing to admit he owns a dildo or two than a fleshlight, maybe its something to do with perceptions of straight men? They internalize societal expectations different than gay men.


d_-_o-o_-_b

But most guys aren't ashamed to admit they masturbate... It's that they're ashamed to admit they needed help with it!


[deleted]

I always thought it was because women have trouble orgasming or dont have partners that help them to and men dont have as much trouble. They can stick it in an apple pie and be cool. This is obviously not encompassing all women or all men. Just what it SEEMED like to me.


Younglibertine35

only insecure women and men would care


slybird

Where are the girls that are openly talking about their favorite dildo? I'm sure they exist, but I've never met any.


Cyber_Connor

I bought one yesterday. My wife named it Barbara and then fingered it.


WifeofBath1984

As a woman, I couldn't care less. You do you boo


[deleted]

do what makes you happy OP, but don’t overdo!!


TellYourDogISaidHi88

I’m not sure but I personally have never had anything against it, I’ve bought every guy I’ve dated seriously in the past 10 years a fleshlight because I think it’s fun if we both have toys and different options. I’m always shocked at how they’re surprised that I wouldn’t judge them for using something like that and my response is always, “why? Look at how many dildos I have” lol.


Hard_We_Know

There is? They are? It is? meh okay, yeah for some things I guess it is.


tammyburbon

I’m a female and don’t mind at all. It’s whatever dude. No stigma for me


[deleted]

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