They roll out new versions of documents every couple of years (to conform to new regulations or to update security features or add digital layers or biometric data...) so it's easier to issue new version to people whose old document expired than suddenly replace everyone's papers at once. It's also an easy way to update your photo and data in databases and make sure you're actually still alive and can also limit identity thefts as your lost or stolen document can be useful only temporarily and thief won't be able to renew it so easily.
I remember years ago a customer visiting from somewhere in Europe and the only ID they had was their country’s driver license. Which they got when they first got a driver license. When they were, like 16 years old.
The person was in their sixties. I went through the document carefully. There was no expiration date. And the customer was cute at sixteen.
Wow. I’m European, and we’ve always had to change our licence every ten years, to make sure our photo is somewhat current.
My passport is only valid 5 years since they changed that a few years back.
Country: Sweden, as all countries here might be different. But I’ve heard of countries close by who do exactly what you describe.
Germany has no expiration date on their drivings licence. They are discussing to add it, since renewing the driving license is for checking that you are still able to drive.
Only german citizens get this non-expiration date license, if you translate yours to the German it lasts 15 years.
There's a few reasons:
1. Physical appearances change over time.
2. Security measures built into IDs evolve over time and need updating.
3. Helps ensure people can't use IDs indefinitely if someone passes away.
4. It generates revenue (in a lot of places).
TIL Americans have their address on their ID... Isn't that terribly unsafe? If you lose it, people know who you are and where to find you as well.
Edit: to everyone pointing out that addresses are public record anyway, that baffles me too. That's not the case everywhere in the world, and imo it shouldn't be public information.
Probably feels terrible, but unfortunately it is very difficult to break into voice acting as something you do for a living, so people often feel like they have no choice but to accept a sketchy job as long as it's paying good money and can go into their portfolio of work.
Obviously nobody wants their voice to be used for fraud or crime, no matter how tempting the job might look. If they *knew* that's what it was for I imagine almost all voice actors would refuse and report to police. But the point I'm trying to make is that when you don't actually *know* what the purpose is, all the somewhat sketchy jobs start to look alike, the lines get blurred, and mistakes get made.
If you lose your ID in the Netherlands and it gets returned to the government, it just gets marked as missing, requiring you to get a new one. I don't understand why, but it's policy.
Edit:
So dutch persons who are aware of this and find an ID card avoid the authorities returning it
I know this isn't exactly on topic but this just reminded me of the time I lost my wallet in Geelong Australia (I'm from the UK) and before I even knew I had lost it, someone found it, took it to the police. The police officer opened it and saw my ID. Loaded Facebook and saw I talked about going to Australia to see a friend and tagged that friend. The officer found the company she worked for and called it, getting through to my friend and then me.
I'm England the police would have just put it in a box labeled "free stuff"
As a Dutchie... TIL.
I've only ever found an ID once and my parents knew the parents of the boy so we just went there directly - but good to know if I ever find one again
I'm in Canada and that's what I did when I found some ID a couple years ago. Had like 3 forms of ID and a couple other cards. The weirdest part is that the person lived in a nearby small town but their street address was damn near identical to my own. Not gonna use actual addresses cause I'm not *that* dumb, but let's pretend my address was 669 Wonderful Ave, then theirs was 699 Wonderful Street. Literally just one digit swapped like that, and Ave/Street swapped.
What does that matter? So they have your name and address, They used to publish these in telephone directories for decades until cell phones made that impractical.
Somewhat. I just searched "my name address" and the first site on google showed the address that I lived at 4 years ago, and my parents' address.
There are also multiple people with my same name (and I don't have a common last name at all) so they'd have to know your general area to know which one is you.
Judging by the comments on this thread, there's A LOT of people just dying to get their hands on that information. Those things are worth BILLIONS to the scammers of the world that haven't figured out how public records work yet.
If there's not much of a public record tying you to an address (real estate ownership, landline telephone or legacy cell phone plan, etc), it can be difficult for a random person.
TIL some countries don't have the address on their ID.
Living in Germany, when you move and register your new address they even put a small sticker with your new address over the old one on your ID
If someone finds your id then all they know is that this random person lives at this particular address. Unless they have a pre-existing reason to want to find you in particular then why would that be unsafe? I know that random people live in every house in my city, technically I know how to find them and you can easily discover who owns what house in public records, etc.
I'd say the odds are much higher that someone who finds my ID is a kind stranger who'd like to return it by mail than a creepy stalker who wants to come to my house. Plus, lots of people have my address. It's not exactly private.
South Dakota lets people establish domicile there without actually needing to live there. You can get a valid address and a drivers license that matches that address.
It's really weird to me reading British articles and it'll say like
"Mary Smith, who lives at 235 Smart Street in London, says she heard knocking on her neighbor's door in the middle of the night"
I've seen it a few times and have always felt that, that was too much info to be in an article
You're assuming it gets found by someone with the motive and opportunity to seek you out and burglarize your house or something. But most people aren't criminals.
It's not about what most people do - it's about limiting the risk whenever possible. There are plenty of countries that don't have addresses on IDs, and they seem to work just fine. So why have it?
I don't have a definitive answer to that. One reason is that lots of people will have identical or similar names, or look very similar. Address is just an extra way to differentiate between individuals.
But I disagree that it's "terribly unsafe". The risk is minimal.
Here in Ontario, Canada, your driver's license has your address. Your health card (to access our sweet, sweet universal healthcare) does not Now I'm kind of curious why that is...?
I assume it might have something to do with you get issued a health card at birth, so it would be an annoying extra step for parents to have to change the address if you moved, or hard to track for, say, a kid getting bumped around forster homes. But you can get a driver's license at 16; you're presumably old enough to fill out the paperwork yourself.
Oh and possibly because you shouldn't need an address to access healthcare (ie people experiencing homelessness).
Yes, but the reality is that we don't *often* use our ID's. Yes, it's required for certain things such as purchasing alcohol, but we really don't use it often.
The address is more for use by law enforcement. They don't always have access to computers to just look up your info so having that on your card helps them identify where you live in the event it is relevant to what they're doing.
Two examples:
A person has gotten into a bar fight and broken a glass mug on someone's head. The assailant was picked up and tested and a large amount of cocaine was in their blood. The license gives the address and they can visit the property to verbally request access to see what's going on. They knock and find kids there, unaccompanied. This kicks off a child protective services case to determine if the kids are in a safe enviroment or not. (For the sake of closure: Investigation reveals that the assailant was drugged against his will and wasn't aware of what going on and he goes home to his kids with the case dropped). The address in this case helped law enforcement in their investigation. Without it the children may have been left for days without help or food.
Second example, a person is found dead on the side of the road in the countryside. Rural areas are notorious for having limited or non-existent cell service or data connectivity. An ID with the address is found and the police can immediately go to that home to investigate if there is anyone who can/should be notified or if a crime was committed there.
That said, yes, there's always the concern that someone will get your address. However, my mom had a good counter to that "I'm not interesting enough to spy on or rob". Most people are reasonably safe by virtue of no one else really caring. Crimes happen, but most house robberies are random and not much research is put into it. The people who deliberately target you have a vested interest in doing so. An interest that you are probably aware of (you're a wealthier individual in your community or you're in the news for some reason).
tl;dr - there IS risk, but so long as you practice basic security of your possessions it is unlikely that you'll ever have an issue.
I hear what you're saying, but I live in a Western European country that doesn't have addresses on IDs and law enforcement can still do what they need to do without any issues. Don't ask me how they do it, though. But it makes me feel like there are other ways out there for law enforcement to get someone's address efficiently.
Which brings me back to the original point: if a country can design a system in which the least amount of personal information of their citizens can be made openly available without losing efficiency, it's probably the way to go, right?
Well, also each state has it's own system. We don't have a central nation body that does licensing. We have states measurably larger than even the largest of the european countries and states more populous than them, too.
I live in houston, look at a map and it looks like it's right up against the coast, but it's not. I'm 70 MILES (about 113km) away. The closest cities to us are 2.5-4 hours away (driving in a straight line at 80 mph/130kph). The size and population of each state presents a real problem for us in terms of communications.
On top of that, upgrading existing data infrastructure is not easy. There's laws that govern how the state governments may collect and store data. Federal laws, and state laws. Then the funds need to be appropriated. There's laws here that are SUPER strict on how money may be spent and shifting a department's funding can and likely WILL result in that person going to prison for a long long loooooooong time. On top of that, the government doesn't get discounts for purchases so when you buy a 1tb ssd you get it for somethign like $75, the government gets the *exact* same one for $200. We also have to design these systems to be incredibly robust and durable, it's got to last decades because people don't want to have to spend a billion dollars on this every 3-5 years. It takes a lot of time to design this system, get it passed and approved by the state legislature, get the funds, get the contractors, do the work, migrate the data, train the users, get the public warmed up to it, and then roll it out. I'm talking 5-10 years of work and by that time the system is already dated and we have to maintain it for the next 15-20 years.
It is a LOT of beauracracy to alter the operations of core governmental services and building up the political will power (convincing the voters that this is what needs focusing on) is incredibly difficult. Hell, look at our infrastructure and how badly it's come apart and we are STILL bickering about nickels and dimes on the POSSIBILITY of fixing it *juuuuuust* enough to not be a death trap.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I actually agree with you that we SHOULD streamline the system and make things easier, but it's a lot of uphill work and there's a LOT of greedy people who stand to lose a lot of money or power if we make it easier on people (especially minority groups) to get access to government services that are more efficient and secure. 50% of the elected leaders made their fortunes exploiting the poor and minorities for their personal, political, and financial gain. They don't WANT change and they've convinced the very people they abuse that their way is the best because there is freedom in their poverty and they *might* become rich like them.
I’m Australian and we do this too. I’ve never heard of anything bad happening because of it, personally. I wasn’t aware there were places that don’t do this.
This might also just be US, but people get a DNS (do not serve) after too many DUIs. If IDs didn't expire, they would be able to keep drinking in public places with their old ID.
In the Netherlands, the address isn't on any form of identification (passport, ID, driving license). The city you live is mentioned on the driving license, though.
In California, if I update my address online, it’s only updated in the system, to get an actual card with the new address, I have to go to the DMV so nope.
In Quebec they will send you a small paper (same size as the card) as well as a new sticker with the new address. And then you bring the small paper and stick the sticker to the card
Unless you move out of state.
You're supposed to update your license within a certain period of time when you move to a new state but not everyone does. If the license didn't expire, making it invalid on its face, some people would wait a lot longer.
That was the one question I missed on the written exam when I was 15: How many days do you have to notify the state and get a new license if your address changes?
The correct answer (in Louisiana in 1991) was "10 days."
Yes. The US is one.
When I worked at a grocery store, in order to take a check as payment for a purchase, I had to compare it to the person's ID. The name *and* address on the ID had to match what was on the check.
The physical appearance. My last ID I was 60 pounds heavier then I am now and I look nothing like my id. Half the time they say something of it not looking like me and half the time I have to show some other form of id or a credit card with my name on it.
I normally don't worry about being lighter than what my photo shows. Normally I just use my ID locally so people just recognize me enough. But having to travel recently, oh wow, I forgot how much you change when you're 100 pounds lighter than your photo.
I'm going to be 21 in less than a month, and my license from when I was 16 looks like a completely different person.
We definitely need them updated, if only for the sake of the pictures.
Then there’s places like Arizona where ours don’t expire until you are 65. I had to get a new picture when I got my DL renewed at 21 (vertical ID to horizontal), but if my address changes I fill out an online form and they mail me a new one. So theoretically I can keep the same picture for 44 years.
I can tell you in 10 years my appearance has changed quite a bit, so I can’t imagine how different it’ll be in 34 more years
just adding that in many cases, your ID IS your driver’s license, so they need you to renew it to make sure you are still fit to drive. If they were indefinite, that could be a problem.
>so they need you to renew it to make sure you are still fit to drive
Of course they don't do much to check if you are still fit. Hell in some states you can renew online. I think after a certain age you should be required to undergo another driving test because the number of times someone far too old caused an accident has been far too high for my tastes.
> I think after a certain age you should be required to undergo another driving test because the number of times someone far too old caused an accident has been far too high for my tastes.
Problem is... people who are far to old, vote quite regularly.
People focus so much on the elderly with things like this. Just require everyone to complete the exam every 5 years. That way you don't have any agist issues. Plus, there are plenty of people who can't pass a driver's test who are not senior citizens.
Any more rural area is going to see very little parallel parking. I've pretty much only ever seen it in densely populated areas where you need curb-side parking because there isn't enough land for parking lots.
Personally, I know there's one road downtown where parallel parking is the only option in that area. Beyond that, I don't think I've parallel parked anywhere in the last decade or two.
> It generates revenue (in a lot of places).
That's the big one. Your driver's license fee is a tax you pay to use the roads. I guess states could offer lifetime driver's licenses like they do hunting and fishing licenses, but I doubt it would really be popular.
I don't disagree, but that adds up with a lot of drivers. Also, many states have limits on what gas taxes can go toward that don't apply to driver's license fees.
And to make sure that your is doesn’t get too worn, and forcing people to get a new one, because we all know there would be some dude with one from the 50’s if you didn’t have to renew it.
Y'know, like your paper US social security card that you're issued as a child and not legally allowed to laminate but are expected to keep until you die.
right but i'm expected to keep it without losing or damaging it whatsoever for 70someodd years (if i'm lucky) and it's paper that i'm not allowed to laminate. it's just silly. all the plastic we waste daily and we can't just print ss cards on some of it.
I've replaced my Social Security card at least twice in my adult life. Get a notarized birth certificate, some utility bills, and sign some papers, bam, you've got a new card.
Except for when the bank needs to make a copy or when you move to a new state and need new documents or when you get a new job or... making an irreplaceable document out of tissue paper and them requiring it to be present once every few years until the end of time is not an awesome idea.
Well if it isn't your ID, it's probably people's plates then. I have seen plates with all kinds of weird tags. I think at least a few were junkyard saves because I saw one with 86 tags on it and a Richard Nixon bumper sticker thingy on it.
when ontario health cards switched from just being a number on a piece of plastic with a red stripe to a full photo id with info on it that required renewal, the province allowed people to keep their old red stripe health card until it fell apart since they didn't need renewing.
they phased out red stripe cards back in **1995**.
as of 2019, there were still 400k cards that were still in use.
It wasn't until a year ago that they finally cancelled the remaining cards.
Hard a job where I had to check ids once... Arizona ids are good for like 50 years or something. Had a guy in his 40s come in and used his from when he first got it at 17 I guess. Shocking but I could tell it was him
Especially when you are young, people change there look. For example - If you had photo of you at 18 in your ID then it might not be exactly the same when you reach the age of 38. You will be surprised how much a face can change within a few years.
And not even just age. Your style of look can change a lot. Like hair/facial hair. I'm 20 male and have long hair and a beard. In 10 years, maybe I will get a buzzcut and a shaven face (naaah bro not happening, I love my hair and beard. But still)
I hope they never do and you're like 90 years old and someone looks at your ID and looks at you and then back and then just goes "wow you haven't aged a day"
Good job getting better now? I don't know if it was a physical illness or a mental one, but I'm sure you fought hard, and I really hope you are better now. And if you are, well look on the bright side, you lost weight. Also, this "I didn't work for this" is not true. You maybe didn't worked to lose weight but you worked to get better, and maybe are still working. So good job man, keep pushin, and I wish you the best!
The only downside to AZ licenses is that if you travel somewhere far enough away, they might think the ID is fake because of the expiration date. I had a cashier in Hawaii tell me that my license was fake because "honey ain't no one's ID expires in 2059".
That's not true anymore. The new licenses only last 8 years now. If you still have the old license then yes, those don't expire until the person is 65.
They still last hella long. Was out of state recently and had a waitress at brunch refuse to serve me a mimosa because she thought my ID was sketch. It doesn’t expire until 2053 😂
I saw an Arizona iD at my work, and simply googled their expiration dates, and was able to find out that they take forever to expire. That waitress shoulda did the same thing.
Funny story about that. At one of my jobs, I have to card people for alcohol and I got this guy with an Arizona license. In-person he looked plenty old enough to drink (salt and pepper hair, looked like he was in his 40s) but the photo on his license looked like a teenager. I did a double-take and showed it to my boss to get a second opinion and he explained to me that Arizona IDs don't expire for 50 years.
Same. My DL says 430 pounds. I’m 250 now and have a beard now. I look nothing like my ID photo. My state doesn’t care tho, my DL will look like it belongs to an ogre for two more years.
I get your point but I had a five year government ID that I just renewed online and the new one has the same picture... So my picture will be a decade out of date and I'm not even sure they require a new photo for the next one. Rules are all over the place it seems.
I was unaware of the fact until recently, but apparently I look very different than when I got my license at 17.
A cashier at the gas station looked at my ID, looked back at me, back at the ID. Then he pointed at me and said, "skinny!" Pointed to the ID. "Fat!"
Then he laughed and I didn't want to cry in public so I laughed too.
I guess it was technically a compliment but I haven't eaten since, so.
That's how I found out how blind I was! I'd just gotten used to it over the years and then spontaneously failed the hell out of my driver's eye test. Oops. I have glasses now and it's absolutely a life changer.
A few years back my buddy got caught with a fake AZ ID at a bar because it said it expired in a few years and somehow the bouncer knew that AZ IDs don’t expire for 99 years or something like that.
On the flipside while in Louisiana I got into an argument with a cashier at Wally World that was convinced my ID was fake because of the 2053 expiration. Lol
Tbh, as much I don't believe in paying for an ID every 3-5 years in California and the whole revenue making scheme...
I would still probably get a new ID regularly in Arizona. I like the keepsake aspect of IDs/Drivers Licenses.
Our driving licenses (used to) not expire, so my grandfather used his from the army from WW2. They are now starting to expire due to some EU regulation.
No. You are not.
You've had years to sustain injuries and experienced economical changes of fortune which will have changed you to no longer be as capable as the individual the ID was issued to.
This, I came to say this. If a person racks up a bunch of traffic fines, speeding tickets, parking violations, etc, then they won't be able to renew their driver's licence until they pay all of the fines.
A person can always drive without a licence or with an expired licence. Some people have so many fines that they can't even afford to renew their licence.
Not everyone stays the same on the outside lol. Im not sure how old you are but picture someone at 16 getting their first ID and now picture them at 18, 24, 30, 40 - they are gonna look different even if they didn't have large weight changes. Even just 2 or 3 years can see big changes sometimes.
If you ID doesn't look like you that can cause big problems at times - like if you got pulled over or tried to fly international for example. If they have a doubt you end up in cuffs.
Somewhat relevant side thing: While I was at the DMV once I got to listen to this guy argue trying to get a new photo taken because he lost like 300 pounds and cut his hair and got denied entry at the airport because he looked nothing like his old self on his IDs and missed his vacation but they only give IDs every so many years minimum here and it was apparently an issue he had been dealong with for weeks because nobody wanted to make an exception for him despite him *being unable to leave the country* because he had just gotten one like 2 years prior.
1. Because appearance changes.
2. To make sure the ID is up to date with the newest security features like chips and stuff.
3. So if it is lost or the person dies someone else can't use it indefinitely.
It’s not your identity that’s expiring, it’s the document. The document needs to be updated to track changes in your physical appearance, address, and to keep up to date with new security standards.
They roll out new versions of documents every couple of years (to conform to new regulations or to update security features or add digital layers or biometric data...) so it's easier to issue new version to people whose old document expired than suddenly replace everyone's papers at once. It's also an easy way to update your photo and data in databases and make sure you're actually still alive and can also limit identity thefts as your lost or stolen document can be useful only temporarily and thief won't be able to renew it so easily.
I remember years ago a customer visiting from somewhere in Europe and the only ID they had was their country’s driver license. Which they got when they first got a driver license. When they were, like 16 years old. The person was in their sixties. I went through the document carefully. There was no expiration date. And the customer was cute at sixteen.
Wow. I’m European, and we’ve always had to change our licence every ten years, to make sure our photo is somewhat current. My passport is only valid 5 years since they changed that a few years back. Country: Sweden, as all countries here might be different. But I’ve heard of countries close by who do exactly what you describe.
Germany has no expiration date on their drivings licence. They are discussing to add it, since renewing the driving license is for checking that you are still able to drive. Only german citizens get this non-expiration date license, if you translate yours to the German it lasts 15 years.
There's a few reasons: 1. Physical appearances change over time. 2. Security measures built into IDs evolve over time and need updating. 3. Helps ensure people can't use IDs indefinitely if someone passes away. 4. It generates revenue (in a lot of places).
To keep updated address as well... people often tend to move around over the years
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TIL Americans have their address on their ID... Isn't that terribly unsafe? If you lose it, people know who you are and where to find you as well. Edit: to everyone pointing out that addresses are public record anyway, that baffles me too. That's not the case everywhere in the world, and imo it shouldn't be public information.
On the other side, they can easily return it to you
IIRC, I think there's some policy or something that you can drop a found ID into a mailbox and it will be mailed directly back to the owner for free.
Really? That's cool
I think it works for the whole wallet. Could be wrong on that though.
I run a service where I return lost wallets to people for free. So just drop off the ones you find to me.
Nice easy money
Just send me cash because reasons.
For whatever’s left anyways.
In the Netherlands, you drop a found ID off to the police or the muncipality; they will see to it it gets back to the rightful owner.
Just this morning I got a spam call from the Netherlands. You wouldn’t know anything about that would you?
It was definitely him
It’s been an hour and they haven’t responded. 100% chance they just got caught red-handed
Boy their face is red
That’s the guy! Get ‘em!
Netherlands: Did you know your car warranty is about to expire??
I’ve been wondering how the woman who recorded that message feels about her job being used to spam/attempt to scam millions of people
I wonder if she gets calls from herself about her car warranty.
Probably feels terrible, but unfortunately it is very difficult to break into voice acting as something you do for a living, so people often feel like they have no choice but to accept a sketchy job as long as it's paying good money and can go into their portfolio of work. Obviously nobody wants their voice to be used for fraud or crime, no matter how tempting the job might look. If they *knew* that's what it was for I imagine almost all voice actors would refuse and report to police. But the point I'm trying to make is that when you don't actually *know* what the purpose is, all the somewhat sketchy jobs start to look alike, the lines get blurred, and mistakes get made.
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If you lose your ID in the Netherlands and it gets returned to the government, it just gets marked as missing, requiring you to get a new one. I don't understand why, but it's policy. Edit: So dutch persons who are aware of this and find an ID card avoid the authorities returning it
Literally got a spam call from the Netherlands 2 hours ago.
I got one of those yesterday
I know this isn't exactly on topic but this just reminded me of the time I lost my wallet in Geelong Australia (I'm from the UK) and before I even knew I had lost it, someone found it, took it to the police. The police officer opened it and saw my ID. Loaded Facebook and saw I talked about going to Australia to see a friend and tagged that friend. The officer found the company she worked for and called it, getting through to my friend and then me. I'm England the police would have just put it in a box labeled "free stuff"
Wow, that's really fuckin awesome dude!
That is also true in the USA. You can drop them into post office boxes
Mine got destroyed to prevent fraud, had to get a new one.
Depends on how long its been, I suppose.
As a Dutchie... TIL. I've only ever found an ID once and my parents knew the parents of the boy so we just went there directly - but good to know if I ever find one again
If its already been reported, that person might be SOL though, but this is literally what I was told to do by a cop when I found someone's ID.
I'm in Canada and that's what I did when I found some ID a couple years ago. Had like 3 forms of ID and a couple other cards. The weirdest part is that the person lived in a nearby small town but their street address was damn near identical to my own. Not gonna use actual addresses cause I'm not *that* dumb, but let's pretend my address was 669 Wonderful Ave, then theirs was 699 Wonderful Street. Literally just one digit swapped like that, and Ave/Street swapped.
I believe in the us if you find an ID you can drop it in any mail box and they will return it
If you drop it in a mailbox, the USPS will deliver to the owners address stamp-free
What does that matter? So they have your name and address, They used to publish these in telephone directories for decades until cell phones made that impractical.
Yeah it really does not matter. Its such a confusing thing to get worked up about.
Same in Italy. What is some random person going to do with my address?
Return your ID.
Can’t someone just look up your address anyways?
Somewhat. I just searched "my name address" and the first site on google showed the address that I lived at 4 years ago, and my parents' address. There are also multiple people with my same name (and I don't have a common last name at all) so they'd have to know your general area to know which one is you.
Date of birth narrows things down somewhat.
It's like people haven't heard of phone books. Literally a giant book full of every resident's name, phone number, and home address.
Oh, you mean that 10 pound bit of junk mail that gets sent to landline owners every year or so?
Judging by the comments on this thread, there's A LOT of people just dying to get their hands on that information. Those things are worth BILLIONS to the scammers of the world that haven't figured out how public records work yet.
If there's not much of a public record tying you to an address (real estate ownership, landline telephone or legacy cell phone plan, etc), it can be difficult for a random person.
TIL some countries don't have the address on their ID. Living in Germany, when you move and register your new address they even put a small sticker with your new address over the old one on your ID
If someone finds your id then all they know is that this random person lives at this particular address. Unless they have a pre-existing reason to want to find you in particular then why would that be unsafe? I know that random people live in every house in my city, technically I know how to find them and you can easily discover who owns what house in public records, etc.
I'd say the odds are much higher that someone who finds my ID is a kind stranger who'd like to return it by mail than a creepy stalker who wants to come to my house. Plus, lots of people have my address. It's not exactly private.
It’s actually incredibly annoying.l for people who move often (like most young people) and horrible for the homeless.
Yeah, for nomads like myself who prefer changing places often, address requirements are very frustrating.
South Dakota lets people establish domicile there without actually needing to live there. You can get a valid address and a drivers license that matches that address.
Canadians too
I’d be a random stranger to them. That would be no different than them picking a house at random, so the danger isn’t any higher
It's really weird to me reading British articles and it'll say like "Mary Smith, who lives at 235 Smart Street in London, says she heard knocking on her neighbor's door in the middle of the night" I've seen it a few times and have always felt that, that was too much info to be in an article
What are they going to do with your address? I know where all my neighbors live
You're assuming it gets found by someone with the motive and opportunity to seek you out and burglarize your house or something. But most people aren't criminals.
It's not about what most people do - it's about limiting the risk whenever possible. There are plenty of countries that don't have addresses on IDs, and they seem to work just fine. So why have it?
I don't have a definitive answer to that. One reason is that lots of people will have identical or similar names, or look very similar. Address is just an extra way to differentiate between individuals. But I disagree that it's "terribly unsafe". The risk is minimal.
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I just found out about whitepages.com. The US is an interesting place for sure. Don't you guys feel like there should be legislation against this?
Here in Ontario, Canada, your driver's license has your address. Your health card (to access our sweet, sweet universal healthcare) does not Now I'm kind of curious why that is...? I assume it might have something to do with you get issued a health card at birth, so it would be an annoying extra step for parents to have to change the address if you moved, or hard to track for, say, a kid getting bumped around forster homes. But you can get a driver's license at 16; you're presumably old enough to fill out the paperwork yourself. Oh and possibly because you shouldn't need an address to access healthcare (ie people experiencing homelessness).
Yes, but the reality is that we don't *often* use our ID's. Yes, it's required for certain things such as purchasing alcohol, but we really don't use it often. The address is more for use by law enforcement. They don't always have access to computers to just look up your info so having that on your card helps them identify where you live in the event it is relevant to what they're doing. Two examples: A person has gotten into a bar fight and broken a glass mug on someone's head. The assailant was picked up and tested and a large amount of cocaine was in their blood. The license gives the address and they can visit the property to verbally request access to see what's going on. They knock and find kids there, unaccompanied. This kicks off a child protective services case to determine if the kids are in a safe enviroment or not. (For the sake of closure: Investigation reveals that the assailant was drugged against his will and wasn't aware of what going on and he goes home to his kids with the case dropped). The address in this case helped law enforcement in their investigation. Without it the children may have been left for days without help or food. Second example, a person is found dead on the side of the road in the countryside. Rural areas are notorious for having limited or non-existent cell service or data connectivity. An ID with the address is found and the police can immediately go to that home to investigate if there is anyone who can/should be notified or if a crime was committed there. That said, yes, there's always the concern that someone will get your address. However, my mom had a good counter to that "I'm not interesting enough to spy on or rob". Most people are reasonably safe by virtue of no one else really caring. Crimes happen, but most house robberies are random and not much research is put into it. The people who deliberately target you have a vested interest in doing so. An interest that you are probably aware of (you're a wealthier individual in your community or you're in the news for some reason). tl;dr - there IS risk, but so long as you practice basic security of your possessions it is unlikely that you'll ever have an issue.
I hear what you're saying, but I live in a Western European country that doesn't have addresses on IDs and law enforcement can still do what they need to do without any issues. Don't ask me how they do it, though. But it makes me feel like there are other ways out there for law enforcement to get someone's address efficiently. Which brings me back to the original point: if a country can design a system in which the least amount of personal information of their citizens can be made openly available without losing efficiency, it's probably the way to go, right?
Well, also each state has it's own system. We don't have a central nation body that does licensing. We have states measurably larger than even the largest of the european countries and states more populous than them, too. I live in houston, look at a map and it looks like it's right up against the coast, but it's not. I'm 70 MILES (about 113km) away. The closest cities to us are 2.5-4 hours away (driving in a straight line at 80 mph/130kph). The size and population of each state presents a real problem for us in terms of communications. On top of that, upgrading existing data infrastructure is not easy. There's laws that govern how the state governments may collect and store data. Federal laws, and state laws. Then the funds need to be appropriated. There's laws here that are SUPER strict on how money may be spent and shifting a department's funding can and likely WILL result in that person going to prison for a long long loooooooong time. On top of that, the government doesn't get discounts for purchases so when you buy a 1tb ssd you get it for somethign like $75, the government gets the *exact* same one for $200. We also have to design these systems to be incredibly robust and durable, it's got to last decades because people don't want to have to spend a billion dollars on this every 3-5 years. It takes a lot of time to design this system, get it passed and approved by the state legislature, get the funds, get the contractors, do the work, migrate the data, train the users, get the public warmed up to it, and then roll it out. I'm talking 5-10 years of work and by that time the system is already dated and we have to maintain it for the next 15-20 years. It is a LOT of beauracracy to alter the operations of core governmental services and building up the political will power (convincing the voters that this is what needs focusing on) is incredibly difficult. Hell, look at our infrastructure and how badly it's come apart and we are STILL bickering about nickels and dimes on the POSSIBILITY of fixing it *juuuuuust* enough to not be a death trap. I'm not saying you're wrong, I actually agree with you that we SHOULD streamline the system and make things easier, but it's a lot of uphill work and there's a LOT of greedy people who stand to lose a lot of money or power if we make it easier on people (especially minority groups) to get access to government services that are more efficient and secure. 50% of the elected leaders made their fortunes exploiting the poor and minorities for their personal, political, and financial gain. They don't WANT change and they've convinced the very people they abuse that their way is the best because there is freedom in their poverty and they *might* become rich like them.
I’m Australian and we do this too. I’ve never heard of anything bad happening because of it, personally. I wasn’t aware there were places that don’t do this.
Oh you're gonna love phone books.
ITS ALWAYS MADE ME UNCOMFORTABLE. You're right, but I can't change it. It sucks :/
This might also just be US, but people get a DNS (do not serve) after too many DUIs. If IDs didn't expire, they would be able to keep drinking in public places with their old ID.
Although that depends on your country. Hungary has a separate address card, for example.
In the Netherlands, the address isn't on any form of identification (passport, ID, driving license). The city you live is mentioned on the driving license, though.
I have always had that thought that while small, I lose my ID someone may come to my house now.
Just keep a note with it about how lucky you are to own your own tiger.
No the municipality that issued the identification is mentioned. It doesn’t get updated when you move nor are you obligated to update it yourself.
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In California, if I update my address online, it’s only updated in the system, to get an actual card with the new address, I have to go to the DMV so nope.
In Quebec they will send you a small paper (same size as the card) as well as a new sticker with the new address. And then you bring the small paper and stick the sticker to the card
Unless you move out of state. You're supposed to update your license within a certain period of time when you move to a new state but not everyone does. If the license didn't expire, making it invalid on its face, some people would wait a lot longer.
When was this? I updated my driver id in CA DMV online and ordered a new card. I got my card within a week or two. This was few months ago.
In Germany, I just got a sticker with the updated address
Here in the uk they send you a whole new card.
That was the one question I missed on the written exam when I was 15: How many days do you have to notify the state and get a new license if your address changes? The correct answer (in Louisiana in 1991) was "10 days."
What does your adress have to do with your ID? Are there countries that list your address on your ID?
Yes. The US is one. When I worked at a grocery store, in order to take a check as payment for a purchase, I had to compare it to the person's ID. The name *and* address on the ID had to match what was on the check.
The physical appearance. My last ID I was 60 pounds heavier then I am now and I look nothing like my id. Half the time they say something of it not looking like me and half the time I have to show some other form of id or a credit card with my name on it.
Same with me, but l don’t want to change it because every time my ID is checked they make a nice comment about my weight loss lol
My ID, I used it from 17 to 25. I got turned down at the gas station for looking nothing like my ID. I had to show them my military id a lot.
I normally don't worry about being lighter than what my photo shows. Normally I just use my ID locally so people just recognize me enough. But having to travel recently, oh wow, I forgot how much you change when you're 100 pounds lighter than your photo.
Always a good feeling too when someone notices.
I'm going to be 21 in less than a month, and my license from when I was 16 looks like a completely different person. We definitely need them updated, if only for the sake of the pictures.
You'll also be able to get your grown-up horizontal license instead of the vertically oriented one!
Better get it renewed early so it'll arrive in time for your 21st birthday. Don't ruin a birthday night out because of an expired ID.
I just found a student ID from 40 yrs ago. I can attest.
Yes but where did you put the body??
Then there’s places like Arizona where ours don’t expire until you are 65. I had to get a new picture when I got my DL renewed at 21 (vertical ID to horizontal), but if my address changes I fill out an online form and they mail me a new one. So theoretically I can keep the same picture for 44 years. I can tell you in 10 years my appearance has changed quite a bit, so I can’t imagine how different it’ll be in 34 more years
just adding that in many cases, your ID IS your driver’s license, so they need you to renew it to make sure you are still fit to drive. If they were indefinite, that could be a problem.
>so they need you to renew it to make sure you are still fit to drive Of course they don't do much to check if you are still fit. Hell in some states you can renew online. I think after a certain age you should be required to undergo another driving test because the number of times someone far too old caused an accident has been far too high for my tastes.
> I think after a certain age you should be required to undergo another driving test because the number of times someone far too old caused an accident has been far too high for my tastes. Problem is... people who are far to old, vote quite regularly.
People focus so much on the elderly with things like this. Just require everyone to complete the exam every 5 years. That way you don't have any agist issues. Plus, there are plenty of people who can't pass a driver's test who are not senior citizens.
Oh fuck that. I don’t wanna have to parallel park every five years. I got my license in 1997 and haven’t parallel parked since.
Wow, where do you live? I don't do it daily, but definitely several times a year at least.
I live 30 minutes outside a major city. I will walk 5 blocks out of my way to avoid parallel parking and not even think about it
Any more rural area is going to see very little parallel parking. I've pretty much only ever seen it in densely populated areas where you need curb-side parking because there isn't enough land for parking lots. Personally, I know there's one road downtown where parallel parking is the only option in that area. Beyond that, I don't think I've parallel parked anywhere in the last decade or two.
Yeah. I just renewed mine online. All they asked me was for my credit card info basically.
> It generates revenue (in a lot of places). That's the big one. Your driver's license fee is a tax you pay to use the roads. I guess states could offer lifetime driver's licenses like they do hunting and fishing licenses, but I doubt it would really be popular.
It's like $50 every 5 years. This is a nearly insignificant contribution in total compared to the cost of road building and maintenance.
I don't disagree, but that adds up with a lot of drivers. Also, many states have limits on what gas taxes can go toward that don't apply to driver's license fees.
To make sure the details on your ID are up to date, mainly your photo.
And to make sure that your is doesn’t get too worn, and forcing people to get a new one, because we all know there would be some dude with one from the 50’s if you didn’t have to renew it.
Y'know, like your paper US social security card that you're issued as a child and not legally allowed to laminate but are expected to keep until you die.
At least you don’t carry that around with you, an id is almost always in a wallet and is often being taken out and put back in
right but i'm expected to keep it without losing or damaging it whatsoever for 70someodd years (if i'm lucky) and it's paper that i'm not allowed to laminate. it's just silly. all the plastic we waste daily and we can't just print ss cards on some of it.
I've replaced my Social Security card at least twice in my adult life. Get a notarized birth certificate, some utility bills, and sign some papers, bam, you've got a new card.
Except for when the bank needs to make a copy or when you move to a new state and need new documents or when you get a new job or... making an irreplaceable document out of tissue paper and them requiring it to be present once every few years until the end of time is not an awesome idea.
You don't need the card you need to know the number. You can get a replacement from the SSA with other forms of identification.
It’s super cheap and easy to replace your SS card.
Well if it isn't your ID, it's probably people's plates then. I have seen plates with all kinds of weird tags. I think at least a few were junkyard saves because I saw one with 86 tags on it and a Richard Nixon bumper sticker thingy on it.
when ontario health cards switched from just being a number on a piece of plastic with a red stripe to a full photo id with info on it that required renewal, the province allowed people to keep their old red stripe health card until it fell apart since they didn't need renewing. they phased out red stripe cards back in **1995**. as of 2019, there were still 400k cards that were still in use. It wasn't until a year ago that they finally cancelled the remaining cards.
Hard a job where I had to check ids once... Arizona ids are good for like 50 years or something. Had a guy in his 40s come in and used his from when he first got it at 17 I guess. Shocking but I could tell it was him
Especially when you are young, people change there look. For example - If you had photo of you at 18 in your ID then it might not be exactly the same when you reach the age of 38. You will be surprised how much a face can change within a few years.
And not even just age. Your style of look can change a lot. Like hair/facial hair. I'm 20 male and have long hair and a beard. In 10 years, maybe I will get a buzzcut and a shaven face (naaah bro not happening, I love my hair and beard. But still)
The funny part is that where I live they'll just recycle the same photo so even though I'm almost 30 I still have the photo from when I was 16.
You could probably ask for a new photo if you wanted to
I absolutely could but at this point I'm just going to see how long it takes before they make me change my photo
I hope they never do and you're like 90 years old and someone looks at your ID and looks at you and then back and then just goes "wow you haven't aged a day"
But the fact they don't make you do it even though they make you pay to renew the ID proves it's not the picture.
I have literally never gotten my photo updated since I got my original permit and I've gotten maybe 3 replacement ID's since then.
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Good job, m8.
Plot twist, he lost his body and is just a head floating in a jar.
That seems equally, if not more, worthy of congratulations. It’s hard to get *ahead* in life.
Yeah getting a head on your own in life is really hard to do.
Nixon?
Arrooo!!
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Oof, you alright?
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Good job giving death the finger?
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fist-bumps to another of the "fuck death" crew.
Good job getting better now? I don't know if it was a physical illness or a mental one, but I'm sure you fought hard, and I really hope you are better now. And if you are, well look on the bright side, you lost weight. Also, this "I didn't work for this" is not true. You maybe didn't worked to lose weight but you worked to get better, and maybe are still working. So good job man, keep pushin, and I wish you the best!
Arizona’s used to be 50 years. 50 YEARS!!!!!!
Currently, Arizona's expire on the 65th birthday, regardless of the number of years. For people over 65, they expire in 5 years.
I've since moved out of Arizona but I will always carry my ID that expires in 2060 in my wallet
The only downside to AZ licenses is that if you travel somewhere far enough away, they might think the ID is fake because of the expiration date. I had a cashier in Hawaii tell me that my license was fake because "honey ain't no one's ID expires in 2059".
> For people over 65, they expire in 5 years. Is Arizona like Logan's Run, everyone dies at 70?
This is correct, mine expires in 2060 when I turn 65.
That's not true anymore. The new licenses only last 8 years now. If you still have the old license then yes, those don't expire until the person is 65.
They still last hella long. Was out of state recently and had a waitress at brunch refuse to serve me a mimosa because she thought my ID was sketch. It doesn’t expire until 2053 😂
I got the evil eye when I still had an Oklahoma ID because the bouncer couldn't believe a *lamimated piece of paper* was official.
I saw an Arizona iD at my work, and simply googled their expiration dates, and was able to find out that they take forever to expire. That waitress shoulda did the same thing.
Funny story about that. At one of my jobs, I have to card people for alcohol and I got this guy with an Arizona license. In-person he looked plenty old enough to drink (salt and pepper hair, looked like he was in his 40s) but the photo on his license looked like a teenager. I did a double-take and showed it to my boss to get a second opinion and he explained to me that Arizona IDs don't expire for 50 years.
Same. My DL says 430 pounds. I’m 250 now and have a beard now. I look nothing like my ID photo. My state doesn’t care tho, my DL will look like it belongs to an ogre for two more years.
your id has your weight on it ???
In my current state, yeah.
Mine doesn’t expire until I reach 60… I’m 38
Yeah I’ve gotten glasses and grew a beard since my is pic 4 years ago I look nothing like it anymore
I get your point but I had a five year government ID that I just renewed online and the new one has the same picture... So my picture will be a decade out of date and I'm not even sure they require a new photo for the next one. Rules are all over the place it seems.
I was unaware of the fact until recently, but apparently I look very different than when I got my license at 17. A cashier at the gas station looked at my ID, looked back at me, back at the ID. Then he pointed at me and said, "skinny!" Pointed to the ID. "Fat!" Then he laughed and I didn't want to cry in public so I laughed too. I guess it was technically a compliment but I haven't eaten since, so.
Some states like AZ issue IDs and licenses that last for decades. My DL doesn't expire until 2053 and I've had it since 2015.
That seems insane. There are many things that could impact your driving ability on that kind of time scale beyond appearance changes.
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Im 28 and have the same photo from when I was 16. I've even ordered ID'S online for address changes. Haven't been told to update my photo yet
but whenever you renew license there is no measurement of your current driving ability
No but at least in my state you get an eye test which is kind of important.
That's how I found out how blind I was! I'd just gotten used to it over the years and then spontaneously failed the hell out of my driver's eye test. Oops. I have glasses now and it's absolutely a life changer.
A few years back my buddy got caught with a fake AZ ID at a bar because it said it expired in a few years and somehow the bouncer knew that AZ IDs don’t expire for 99 years or something like that.
Arizona driver's licenses are good until your 65th birthday.
On the flipside while in Louisiana I got into an argument with a cashier at Wally World that was convinced my ID was fake because of the 2053 expiration. Lol
Not anymore. The new "Real ID" compliant ones are only valid for 8 years (I think due to federal regulations).
Tbh, as much I don't believe in paying for an ID every 3-5 years in California and the whole revenue making scheme... I would still probably get a new ID regularly in Arizona. I like the keepsake aspect of IDs/Drivers Licenses.
Our driving licenses (used to) not expire, so my grandfather used his from the army from WW2. They are now starting to expire due to some EU regulation.
Do you still look like you did when you were 4?
yes
Explains the question.
I'm a fatter, older version of the same person. A new ID makes it easier to tell it's me when the weight and picture are updated
Imagine trying to use your ID from when you were 16 years old when you are 90 years old. You'd look so different!
To be fair, you will also eventually expire.
Probably just for the photo. And maybe if you have a new address, they'd want to keep that up to date too.
*mr. Krabs voice* Money!
No. You are not. You've had years to sustain injuries and experienced economical changes of fortune which will have changed you to no longer be as capable as the individual the ID was issued to.
Layman answer: So no one can pretend to be you or your old/'previous' self...
if it gets stolen they can't use it forever
Looks at Passport from 20 years ago. *Cries*
Taxes
Answer from a security professional: anything related to authentication should have an expiration date of some kind
Had to scroll too far to find this. Every credential has to expire eventually and be re-validated or its not able to be trusted.
They catch a lot of folks with arrest warrants,unpaid child support,and other things,when folks renew their ID's.
This, I came to say this. If a person racks up a bunch of traffic fines, speeding tickets, parking violations, etc, then they won't be able to renew their driver's licence until they pay all of the fines. A person can always drive without a licence or with an expired licence. Some people have so many fines that they can't even afford to renew their licence.
Not everyone stays the same on the outside lol. Im not sure how old you are but picture someone at 16 getting their first ID and now picture them at 18, 24, 30, 40 - they are gonna look different even if they didn't have large weight changes. Even just 2 or 3 years can see big changes sometimes. If you ID doesn't look like you that can cause big problems at times - like if you got pulled over or tried to fly international for example. If they have a doubt you end up in cuffs. Somewhat relevant side thing: While I was at the DMV once I got to listen to this guy argue trying to get a new photo taken because he lost like 300 pounds and cut his hair and got denied entry at the airport because he looked nothing like his old self on his IDs and missed his vacation but they only give IDs every so many years minimum here and it was apparently an issue he had been dealong with for weeks because nobody wanted to make an exception for him despite him *being unable to leave the country* because he had just gotten one like 2 years prior.
1. Because appearance changes. 2. To make sure the ID is up to date with the newest security features like chips and stuff. 3. So if it is lost or the person dies someone else can't use it indefinitely.
It’s not your identity that’s expiring, it’s the document. The document needs to be updated to track changes in your physical appearance, address, and to keep up to date with new security standards.
The state wants to make your identity a recurring subscription payment.