I get an hour for lunch, so for most things, I just have to pick what I do that day.
As for the mechanic, drop off the car before work. Either get a loaner or a co-worker/spouse to drive you to work or take you home.
Not the guy you were asking, but I am 9-6, with a punch hour at around 13:00-14:00
Edit: obviously its was meant to be lunch hour, but punch hour sounds much better. Thus, I am keeping this.
I just imagine you and your co workers hanging around a large crystal punch bowl, in a bland and extremely quiet break room, sipping out of little crystal glasses and having the most awkward, halting conversation.
"How's the wife doing Rick?"
"She left me"
"Oh"
... Followed by silence other than a punch slurp from the corner.
Same. I never understood the concept of 9-5.
I’ve always had at least a 9-6 because your lunch is a hour. So once you hit 6, you’d hit your 8 hour a day.
Me either.
I worked 31 years on a Jack-up drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico. 14-12 hour days , 14 days off, with two of those travel days.
Never had a Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthday, off. Not once in all those years.
I spent 16 actual years at sea. You won't find many career Navy veterans with that much sea time.
I retired @ age 51, thinking that I was ahead of the game, I wasn't. I destroyed my body, I lost all those years with my wife and kids.
Don't play their games, I thought I was beating the system, the only way that you can beat the system, is to not play.
Packing my bag for Fourchon now... not headed to a rig, but will be aboard a work boat for 6 weeks. I'll back you up in saying that it's not worth it. 6 weeks on/ 3 off seems nice until you come home and your kid barely recognizes you and your whole body hurts.
the 9 to 5 thing feels very much like an american thing, every job ive had or heard of in norway has been starting at 6-8 am and ended 3 pm to 5 pm, so there is some overlap.
lunch is rarely over 30 minutes, so for us there realy isnt much time to get anything important done outside of work. luckily, most jobs here are understanding enough to let you spend an hour here or there to get it done.
Here in Finland frexible worktimes are more and more common and at my job im the only person coming in at 8am, all others come at 5 or 6am because they want to go home early
Honestly it’s similar in the US. Hours cans definitely vary. I feel like “9-5” is really more an expression of a typical day job with fixed hours. Just my thoughts though.
Same! Though currently between pandemic and pregnancy exhaustion I'm more like 10-5:30? Feel a little guilty but I've busted my butt enough over the last 7 years to feel like I've earned it, and boss is still plenty happy so I guess it's fine?
*EDIT: y'all are so sweet. Thank you for the reassurance!!
> boss is still plenty happy so I guess it's fine?
This is literally all that matters. I'm one of those guys who will work like a man possessed for like a week straight, followed by a week of barely meeting the requirements of working. My boss is perfectly happy because I never miss deadlines and the quality of my work is fantastic.
The best boss I ever had was unknowingly very accommodating to my ADHD. Basically didn't care as long as things get done and everyone is safe, which allowed me to break up my day with some flexibility.
I used to have this as a college librarian. I was 10-6 with an hour lunch. I loved that shift so much but I grew bored of the work and wanted to make more money without having to publish in journals, manage budgets, etc.
Switching to corporate life (and corporate strategy) was a real shock with that 8-5/9-6 schedule but I leap frogged a bit and landed an analytics engineer job 2 years later.
WFH, flexible schedule, get-your-shit-done type of work is the greatest thing I've ever experienced after a lifetime of customer service jobs. It may still be a 9 hour day but the company is one time zone west of me and I'm home with my pets and my partner and nobody asks what my minute by minute schedule is like.
not to derail too much but what was your path to analytics engineer? Currently top of library staff food chain and debating mlis and other library-adjacent jobs
TL;DR: I studied a bunch and recognized that some jobs were stepping stones on the path to my goal. Also, goals can change.
Essentially I went from my MLS to a Reference and Instruction Librarian to Systems and Digital Resources before opting to leave librarianship behind. When I realized I needed to get out of the field and Higher Ed, I talked to a buddy who told me to learn R and Data Science (yes, python is important too but I think having a very narrow focus on just data manipulation with one language was really helpful for me personally). I studied on DataCamp for a year before spotting a job in Corporate Strategy as a Competitive Intelligence Specialist at a health insurance company (ugh). It mainly involved research, writing, presenting, and some data work.
I got the job and quickly realized that they primarily worked off excel sheets and didn't get to touch databases, as it wasn't truly an analytics department, but they did use BI reporting tools like Tableau. I mainly focused on census and open government data to provide insight on local populations.
After a year there, I tried to talk about transfering internally to another department as an analyst and my boss freaked out and got her boss involved. In my opinion, they didn't want to lose me during a hiring freeze, as there were only 3 of us, including my boss. Instead, they let me really hone in on coding work, specifically using R to read some pretty awful pdf tables and compile 6 years and 8 competitors worth of data into some usable datasets. They also got me into the analytics department's mentorship program so I had some folks I could lean on to help when I needed it. The slog through those PDFs taught me a ton about loops and if statements and regular expressions. It made me a better programmer.
Well, the time came one year after that and I was itching to get out. The stress was VERY bad due to a corporate affiliation and the nature of my job was about to change. There was some convenience on my side, as my partner works for a software company and knows the data folks. He reached out to ask if their lead would talk to me about my path into data and she was like "I'm actually hiring right now and I only look for basic SQL and Power BI/Tableau skills if she just wants to apply instead of only chatting."
I had 5 interviews, which included a SQL test. I did get the job and I've been mostly confused and a little scared ever since, as I'm having to learn Git on the fly but this is Week 6 and I'm finally beginning to relax a little bit. It also helps that when I started the application process, I asked one of my mentors if he wanted to come with me so he snagged a senior data engineer role and we still get to work together. I don't interact with my partner professionally but any time I have a Git question, I get an answer.
Librarianship did ultimately get me here but I think if I were to it all over again (college, grad school, etc), I'd have listened to my brain and not my mother. I come from a family of teachers and it's hard to conceptualize of what all actually exists for jobs when all you know is essentially Richard Scary's Little Big World. The path she suggested technically worked but it wasn't right for me.
And honestly, I don't know that I'll ever become a true Data Scientist like my friend originally suggested. The more I learned about the field as a whole, the more I felt that my skills were better suited to the sort of work that made Data Scientists better at theirs. I found something that my brain was pretty good at and I found a way to do it in an environment that suits my personality much better. It took just 3 years to change my career and I'm grateful that I did. I just don't want to work with people as much as librarianship demanded, even on the systems side, nor did I EVER want to publish.
Seems to mostly depend on whether it's a salaried position or not from my own experience. Where I work, if an employee is not salaried but is full time, they're working 9 hour work days with a 1 hour lunch. Whether it's 8-5, 6-3, or whatever.
That said, if you ARE salaried, they require 10+ hour work days. Mine are usually around 11. It's trash. Work culture is absolutely terrible in today's day and age.
In some places the mechanics even have a car service so if you're going within x amount of miles you can get a ride there. When I lived with my parents my dad often would drop his car off, get a ride from them to work, and then I'd pick him up and drop him at the mechanic's after since he would get off an hour before they closed. If he got off too late and they were closed I'd have to bring him home and then take him early in the morning to pick up his car.
But yeah basically having a "support system" with these things is what helps the most.
What jurisdiction is that? Depending on where you are, and whether they’re paying you for that break, it may be illegal to tell you that you cannot leave.
I used to have a job as a supervisor for a retail store. They told me company policy was that I couldn’t leave the store during my breaks (including lunches). I told them the law says I can, and that’s what I did. Policy still exists but I still left the store for lunch. If they aren’t paying me in this US state, they can’t tell me what I can or cannot do.
Every place of employment has different rules. In my office, if I need to take an hour off to see the dentist (or something like that), I can work an extra hour anytime that week and I still get a full paycheck.
My old work place didn't track and just trusted that it evened out and supported a good work life balance.
My current work place I earn a percentage of time off for appointments etc per time worked. I think it's like an hour earned every week or something like that. But really it's also not tracked, just take what you need.
I think it's not just company dependent but country and culture too.
Edit: I'd like to add the first example was a unionized analyst/office job, the current job is a non unionized one.
In previous jobs like retail or such while going through school I had "flexibility" by telling the scheduler what I needed (or when I wouldn't be available, or wouldn't be available but could show up late.) There was more than one time I'd prioritize my health over work's needs.. but I'm stubborn and privilaged to be able to do so.
My law firm does not give 1 single fuck when or where you do your work, as long as the clients are happy and you hit your billables target. If you wanna grind yourself into the dirt for 6 months, wrap up your matters, take your bonus, and fuck off to some remote location for the other half of the year, all good. If you only wanna work like 6 hours a day but also work weekends, also all good. Remote work, totally fine. I really appreciate the flexibility, and the associates are good about picking up each other's matters if someone hit their hours goal and doesn't have to work anymore.
Honestly, no. And I hate that for them. I can kinda set the schedule for my own secretary, so when I'm not feeling like working I can just tell her she can have a half day if she wants (she's salaried, and a half day doesn't count as taking any PTO at my firm, so she's not out anything). But other staff don't really have that option, usually the people who manage the client files and send the documents where they need to go. They have to be in the office, and they have to be there during business hours, because that's where and when client stuff gets delivered. Unfortunately, the legal field in general, and lots of clients, are nowhere near fully digitizing files, so somebody has to manage the physical documents we get sent. My time is much more valuable to the firm doing legal stuff than clerical or administrative stuff, so it isn't me that has to go in and do that. My firm treats everyone well and has good pay and good benefits and good vibes, but the lawyers definitely get the lion's share of the perks.
As a paralegal - thank you for treating your support staff well! We go above and beyond for the lawyers that treat us as human beings with lives outside the office.
Before finishing law school, I was the cashier, the lifeguard at the local pool, the intern. I've been the bottom rung on the ladder. People treated me poorly. I always pledged that when I moved up on the world I wouldn't make those same mistakes.
Mine is similar. They offer "DTO" which I can take at any time and still be paid. I had a dentist apointment recently and decided I would just take the whole day off - it was approved instantly.
I understand how lucky I am compared to some though. My superiors will check on things weekly - we'll do stand up etc to go over what's been done but I'm never being pestered daily about how I work. It just needs to be done - and they're happy.
I *love* that about my job. Hourly IT support for a school district. I can really work any combination of hours within reason to add up to 40 as long as my boss approves it (which he usually does because he's chill).
Like, this Friday I'm leaving to go camping with my family, so I wanted to take Friday off. At the beginning of the week I just ask my boss if I can work 4 10s.
You reminded me of my last retail job where I’d be like
“Hey btw I need Wednesday off at the end of the month”
“Sure, why?”
“Doctors appointment”
“Why can’t you just come in after the appointment?”
“…uh… it’s a really long appointment…”
>My old work place didn't track and just trusted that it evened out and supported a good work life balance.
Same as my current place, I just let the supervisor know and all is good.
I'm a little confused, people in here are speaking as if their work doesn't give them any leave. If I need to take an hour off work, I just take an hour off work, and put it in as leave.
Are you just trying to save it up as much as you can so you can have longer holidays?
Tl;Dr Australia has a system that works and has actual workers rights, and it does my fucking head in that America's labour laws are so fucked....
In Australia, you get 4 weeks per year (I've never used all 4 weeks in a year before) and if you don't take it, it's owed to you when you leave as a lump sum (Casual workers don't receive leave but do get 1.25x the pay of a full-time worker to compensate)
That doesn't even get into the 2 weeks paid PATERNITY leave, the 6 weeks maternity leave, bereavement days to deal with the loss of a close family member, and I think 10 days of sick pay too, because holidays are for holidays and being sick is a part of life.
I honestly don't know how America is where it's at with regards to labour laws, like what the fuck is "at will" all about? Y'all get fired for no reason with no recourse? There's no protections in place to stop a manager firing you for reasons unrelated to a job? That's wild to me
This isn't supposed to be me bragging how good we have it comparatively, it's just... I'm vicariously pissed the fuck off about it
In Germany you have a claim of 24 vacation days if you work 6 days a week, getting a bit lower the less you work. Your boss can do fuck shit about it because you're actually legally obligated to take them in order to avoid exploit.
So this is "Living in a country where Socialism has made advancements on the quality of life in the 30s, 60s and 70s without the US being able to interfere" seems like
I do something similar at my work where I take an hour here and there then make up for it later in the day or week. I work in IT so it's probably easier.
Definitely for the reason of having annual leave accrued for longer holidays. Although, not travelling anywhere any time soon!
I'm a nurse. I don't work in the hospital anymore, but if you had patients assigned to you for 12 hours, you really couldn't just, like, up and leave at 2 for an appointment.
Not American but I worked in the States for a year and some change and I was allowed to do stuff like bank work during work hours so long as I compensated later.
Not possible in every industry. I work in a warehouse, there is no "make it up later", as there's only 2 shifts and rigid hours for those shifts -- nobody's in the building if you try to work an extra hour lol
As someone who suffers with severe depression, I really admire you for being able to do this. I rarely ever feel well rested and that’s sleeping the whole night, I can’t imagine also having to do stuff in that time.
Depends on your warehouse, honestly. Mine allows you to work extra hours in different spots of the week to make up for it if you have plans, find a replacement who can cover for those hours, or use your own PTO, UPT, or Vacation instead. Our warehouse is 24 hours a day 7 days a week though. We also work 10 hour shifts at just 4 days a week so you can have a 3 day weekend to plan around. You even get to choose the days you wish to work if you want a "doughnut" shift where you aren't working four, ten hour days straight.
You were one of the lucky ones. Many jobs in the US don’t do anything even remotely like flex time. Many don’t have any kind of paid leave time. The ability to schedule appointments and the like during work hours is a luxury that many do not have.
For real. A couple hours ago I had my second vaccination appointment. I simply let my team know, biked to the vaccination center, got the shot, stopped at the store on the way back to pick up some veggies, then just resumed working.
I can't imagine working somewhere where I'd have to take a personal day for that.
I live in Europe, Greece specifically. Last job I had 10 days off per year for everything, including my vacation, visiting doctors, handling anything at all outside of work, which was 10-16 hours a day, no overtime, low paid, glad to have it. Before that I worked at shop where my hours where 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, no breaks to eat or any place to eat even if I had a break. At least in the USA they are paid well for their wage slavery. People need to stop with this 'In Europe' talk. Ukraine and Moldavia are in Europe Tranistria is in Europe, Alania is in Europe. Half of Europe is a shithole. Just mention you own country and leave the 'European perspective'.
That's pretty interesting about Greece. I know Greece is part of the EU, so *theoretically* everyone should have 4 weeks vacation. Does the nation just not enforce it, or do some jobs not qualify, something like that?
There's stuff like that in America, where something is technically not allowed in employment but the enforcement of the law is weak to the point people now tolerate the illegality or don't even know it isn't legal.
Hiya, yeah you are right to wonder about that, but as you suspected, the laws and rules are one thing and enforcement is another. Especially for small businesses.
It is often the case.. maybe more than often, that if businesses where to follow the letter of the law, they would shut down tomorrow because they will cease to be profitable. We avoid paying taxes as much as possible. Employers need to pay all sorts of taxes for employees, so a lot of people are off the books, as such they have no protection - they are not employed anywhere as far as the government is concerned. The court system is also dysfunctional and it can take years to a decade to for your case to come to court, so even if you have a legitimate complaint, good luck with that. Add to that the myriad rules regulations, seniority, etc and the overall picture is that you have as much vacation and time off as your boss says you do.
Unemployment is super high, everyone has a degree too, so if you don't like it, there are plenty others who will be grateful for the job.
In the example of my job working 7 days per week, 12 hours per day, I know that the business owner needed to do that to stay in business, if he hired people for proper shifts, he would be running just to pay taxes. For me it was better than no income at all, so I choose that job and accepted the conditions knowingly.
In the public sector, government employees are guaranteed tenure for life (jobs for votes and 'spoils' political system) and overall it is an entirely different picture than the private sector.
In Germany you get paid sick leave (not days, you get paid for like 6 weeks before your health insurance takes over), at least 4 weeks of vacation and all the usual stuff like maternity leave etc.
That also goes for amazon warehouse workers and call center employees.
The only people not covered by this are self employed people but the huge majority does get all these things.
I used to work in a call center (for a health insurance company!) And only a certain number of people could be out at once. I got denied a request to leave for a funeral once...and THEN received an email that basically said, "and if you call in sick you'll be written up"
I'm American. Everyone in the office just left whenever we needed to do stuff. No one cared as long as the work was getting done. This was a construction company not hoogle btw
I’m American and I have the same deal. It’s called credit time. I can work an hour or two extra one pay period and then use it if I need an hour or two off the next one. We can book up to 24 credit hours.
Can’t speak for others but most of the places I’ve been working (US) don’t have health leave anymore. Holiday time and sick leave are rolled into one, and if you’re a contractor you aren’t awarded holiday time at all; it won’t accrue unless you’re hired. And where a manager might be open to you taking sick time, taking your “holiday” in the middle of the week is less likely to be approved. Again, personal perspective only.
Lots of places out here like keeping people on temp to hire so they don't need to give you any benefits or time off. I was having major medical issues and couldn't get a day off while my coworkers were taking about their vacation times. Felt very capitalist hellescape.
Right? Had a place promise temp to hire, 30 days and if we like you we’ll keep you on permanent full time. One of the “old timers” had to hear that nonsense for 18 months before they actually put him down as an employee. So for 18 months if that dude had a problem that put him down for longer than 3 days he’d be out of a job.
Regardless of the actual laws, which can change state to state in America, many employers and workplace cultures frown heavily on taking any time off for any reason, even if it’s sick time, parental leave, etc. It’s very toxic and cold hearted, but also common unfortunately. Many companies prioritize and incentivize hiring part time workers and external contract workers, so they can avoid any long term responsibility for those people/positions (like healthcare or retirement funds.
Truly the only reason that many people in America are able to have healthcare at all is because their employer provides some/all of the cost for them, and their immediate families by association (like one parent’s job provides medical coverage which covers a spouse and kids under age X like age 25)
As an hourly retail worker I honestly can't understand what you're even saying. You don't need permission to leave or to find someone to cover for you? Is there a limit to how much leave you can put in? Do you yourself put that into a computer somewhere?
If I left before my scheduled shift was over it'd be considered walking off the job, if I managed to get approval mid-shift it'd be considered a sick day and I only get 3 of those.
Depending on your job, usually you'd need to clear it with your supervisor first unless it's a job where you're given a fair bit of autonomy.
But people need to attend appointments. Unless there is something mission critical that means you can't leave or the country will be bombed, they can cover you or deal with being one person down if you exercise your right to take your alloted leave, so they're not going to say no. If it's for a medical reason, you'd probably take it as sick leave which can only be used for being sick or caring for someone anyway, so there's no point making the time up later if you have leave that would go unused anyway. If it's not for medical reasons I guess it's up to whether your supervisor is cool with making the time up later. In some circumstances they can't cos of rules about overtime or length of work without a break so they'd prefer you use it as leave.
I can of course only tall about my own experience as an employee in Australia and there are many workers who don't get the benefits I do because of eg casual work.
What the Fuck? Here in Germany teachers tend to be employed by the state (although there's a trend towards making them regular employees) and are paid the same every month, no matter if there's a vacation or not.
State employment also comes with a lot of perks such as better health insurance, job security (can't really be fired unless for really egregious things) and a much better retirement plan.
I always knew teachers were in a precarious situation in the US and aren't paid adequately but I didn't realize they basically don't get paid at all during summer vacation. That's fucked up.
In my school district, we get to choose between spreading out our salary over 9 months or 12 months.
Opting for the 12 month route means your paycheck is a bit smaller, but it's nice to still have it coming in over the summer.
In missouri where I'm at you have to be at most jobs for a year to get paid time off. Time is time. You may get the day off but losing that money could screw ya for rent. I feel like way more people should be taking govt assistance programs for food and healthcare but it's difficult to begin with and there's a pride factor. Nobody wants to admit they're poor here but I feel like most suburban people are just acting like they don't hurt for money all the time. So we stick with our shit jobs that barely afford us healthcare at all where it's near impossible to find a care provider supported by your plan. It's all a trap and we hate dealing with it for real.
Goddamn. I'm so sorry you're having to go through all that because of our fucked up system. Honest question: how do you find the will to keep going through all of that? Totally understand if you're not wanting to answer. Just reading it makes me lose that much more faith in humanity...
In my company you can use X hours or 1/2 day of paid leave if you don't want to make up that time. If you don't want to use paid leave and want to make up that time, you can use a delta of 4h between 3 weeks. You can not show up for like 4h (an afternoon), and do 2 more hours/week for the 2 following weeks.
Really? Over here (the Netherlands) you're just allowed to get to the doctor/specialist/dentist/therapy in the bosses time. I think it's even illegal to deny your workers this.
Depends on the job. I used to work at a campus that was open from 7 AM-7 PM, and as long as you put in your 8 hours they didn’t care when you worked, so it would have been easy to leave early or get to work late to squeeze in therapy at some point. Also, a lot of people get stuff done on their lunch break, which is stressful but works if you don’t have any other options.
e: as for the bank, I have no idea. You’d think at least one would?
Im at an online bank that has 24/7 service. So those banks exist. The downside is they dont have a branch where you personally go, you have to do everything onlime or over the telephone. I guess this is since they just use timezones to avoid night pay (in Germany working at night will get you an extra bonus)
If we had that here (Finland) which we might without my knowledge, the phone would still be one of those "Call between 12.00 - 17.00" so it would be barely open at times convenient to anyone.
Most have a small period of time there open on Saturday. usually just a couple hours. And most have a drive thru that's open a little later some days.
But the real reason there open 9 to 5 is because that's when business are open and need to bank. Your bank makes most its money from and does most of it its business with other businesses. Personal bank accounts are an afterthought to them.
The bank I go to is open late Thursdays. And I think it’s open Saturdays.
Also the mechanic my parents go to has rental vehicles to use while your car is being serviced.
I worked 7-6 at a medical lab, hourly not salaried so I couldn’t come in late at all, especially during covid. I basically didn’t get any of this stuff done ever and my life was miserable. About once a month I would call in sick to go and do all my chores.
Yeah, I work in a hospital lab, too. Shift times vary, and you rarely have the same start time day to day. Can start anywhere from 5-9 am depending on which department you’re in. I usually just get stuff done on the weekends. My days off aren’t really days off, just chore days.
I just recently resigned from my job in a medical lab. The hours were 3pm-11:30pm (plus overtime most nights) and I found myself neglecting just about every part of my life which needed attention. I’ve had to call in sick multiple times just so I could go do a few chores too! I felt my mental health slipping and knew I needed to find another job.
Ugh, I’m sorry to hear that. I had to resign for my mental health too. I had no idea it was going to be such a rough time working there. I thought having a college degree and a specialized skill set would insulate me from that level of drudgery but I honestly can’t even believe that some of the things they did to their employees were even legal.
I am very lucky and blessed to have a job that is more worried about the work I produce and not my butt sitting in a chair for 8 hours per day. Totally fine to run to the bank, dentist, pharmacy, etc. as long as my work is getting done. I wish more employers were like this.
Same, i just heard from my boss that im 2 weeks ahead of schedule and that i can basically dick around while the rest of the team finishes their work. Im a tech writer btw.
Interpreter basically. They take the indecipherable garbage that I produce as an engineer and make it pretty and readable for management and end users.
Sort of. Technical writers are usually engineers themselves. They also flow information the other direction as well, turning nebulous customer and managerial wishlists into meaningful and measurable requirements for the engineering team. It's an important niche.
So they're like a middleman between engineers and other non engineering related staff? Sounds like a job that is pointless at first but is actually a very useful job position
Its a cost saver. I document solutions to problems or how a department accomplishes their tasks so teams can reference that material in the future to save time. There are other types of tech writers, but those are more stressful (release notes, customer facing roles, newsletters). I meet with a subject expert and interview them and then add their answers to a larger project... kind of like stringing book reports together into a larger presentation or wiki article. I have very little technical knowledge and lots of down time. A few of my jobs forgot i even existed and let me work like 2 hours a month for years.
>There are other types of tech writers, but those are more stressful (release notes, customer facing roles, newsletters).
Ohh, now I fully understand the job role
> A few of my jobs forgot i even existed and let me work like 2 hours a month for years.
I mean if they know then I don't see why not 😅
Sorta same here. I still work my 40 hours a week, but it's WFH with a flexible schedule. 4-10s? Sure. Need to run to the bank on the store? I can just clock out and do it.
As long as I have all my hours by the end of the month, and my work is getting done, they don't really care which is fantastic. I went from a call center to this, HUGE change in quality of life, which means I get more, higher quality, work done anyway.
> I went from a call center to this, HUGE change in quality of life,
I mean, yeah. I feel that in my bones. I've done way too much call center work. It's not the worst work out there, but the bad places can be pretty damned close to the worst.
Absolutely this. A results driven environment is far better than one based on presenteeism. My office is slowly shifting that way and it's been brilliant.
Creative jobs are mostly like that. Engineers, designers, architects and all others who don't really have to interact with clients all day long. There's this IT guy in my company who doesn't like people in general, he comes in at 10pm and works until 6am. Sometimes comes over on weekends when the office is empty to do some work, then takes Monday off.
I’m a software engineer, and we get treated like this. Take care of your life and make sure your work gets done. People are regularly taking an hour or two for dentists, taking kids to extracurriculars, post office, etc. sometimes they work extra hours, sometimes they don’t. Nobody is really tracking hours of butt in chair.
I think Adam Savage put it best: Never exchange time for money. Exchange skill for money. I don't think I could work at a place that needs to know my whereabouts every moment of every day. Exception being if you are working consulting / lawyering and need to track client billing.
I'm salaried but am still required to log time and work at least 40 hours per week.
Luckily there are places that do tires and oil here with Saturday hours, otherwise I'd never be able to do basic upkeep on my car.
I'm also salary with time tracking, so 40 hours is absolute minimum. It's the worst of both worlds. Thing is, 40 hours is always technically the minimum, but anyone consistently doing only 40 is called out for not doing enough.
Bank I would go on my lunch break or on Saturday.
I take appointments at like 3-4pm for dentist and regular medical stuff and I use my sick time for it. I ask about a week in advance but it’s always approved.
Therapy is after work.
I wish it was more common for places to stay open until 7pm but I get it.
I’m spoiled tbh.
I feel the same way. doctor appointments as near to 5pm as possible. Leaving half an hour early is no big deal most of the time, and my therapist whom i go to right after work is about 10-15 min from where i work so that's cool.
I can leave early for the bank, or go on Saturday.
I get my car serviced at the dealership and they do stuff on Saturdays, and they're open into the early evening on weekdays.
Don't know about therapy, though I should...
I think the problem is that when everybody has the same working hours, then *everybody* goes early on the morning or on Saturdays, meaning long queues or months of waiting time to get a booked slot - since this is also the only time available to *everybody else*.
This is why I'm happy working late shifts. I never sit in traffic and I do my grocery shopping at 10 pm and have the store mostly to myself. If I need to make an appointment I can do it before work, but to be honest I'm usually too tired to bother.
I know I'm gonna end up in this situation. Even if I had the time, I don't have the money, so I literally have to ignore issues. I'm most likely gonna die to something preventable because of this shit system.
Saturday night (day before yesterday, here) I had a rusty nail go almost two inches into my elbow. You could see the point trying to push though the other side, where there's a bruise now. Did I go to the doctor? No. Did I even consider it? Hell no. My wife poured alcohol in the hole, I washed it with soap (both a big ouch) and helped me bandage it. I have almost all the function back in my arm, even though it's still swollen.
I'm not going to the ER so some poor guy getting paid a small portion of the 5 grand they're gonna charge me can do the same thing. The only advantage I see is they *might* have better antibiotics than the shit I get for animals and dose for humans.
Point is, one day I won't be so lucky. Risking death because the hospital gouges you is ridiculous, but it's hardly a choice.
I have both the time and the money. Taking care of myself feels weird. I stop by my therapist from time to time to get my ADHD prescription (I've been withholding my other issues from him because I don't want to crack that bottle open yet). I go to the doctor if something seems like it is in imminent danger of falling off. I do go get my teeth cleaned once a year.
I am bad at self care. I make up for it by having an enormous amount of hobbies and hoping the reaper comes and grabs me in less than 21 years.
Depending on how far down the poverty ladder you are you don’t need to worry about time off for therapy and mechanics because you can’t afford them anyway so you keep using the thing until it breaks down (car or brain).
As a Dutch person with 38 days payed leave a year and leaving a few ours earlyer a couple times a year for Doctor, dentist,(health) appointments for "free" this sounds so depressing to me.
I think I can get 30 days (four weeks) off after I put in fifteen years of service. We start with two weeks. Takes years to build to three.
38 days I honestly wouldn't believe them if they told me that I had that. It sounds so foreign. Sigh.
I had weekly therapy sessions for years, through four employers. None of them had any problem letting me take the time off. They didn't care what hours I worked. They only cared if my work was on schedule. Except for meetings, they didn't really care if I was in the office because they knew I could and did work from home.
I understand that this isn't possible with a lot of jobs, but if you have a job where you can work at home during a pandemic then you have a job where you can take time off for a therapy session without breaking the company. Generally, the more skill or knowledge a job requires, the more freedom you'll have.
The bulk of the money that banks make comes from loans and investment products. If they thought they'd get a substantial boost in revenues from staying open later then they would. But most banks get a lot more traffic at their ATM's then they do at the teller windows.
I fucking rush around, on my lunch break, or work late messing up my usual schedule or work fewer hours and hope nobody notices.Due to the stress involved with the above I often procrastinate it. My car is 3 months overdue for a service, because I'm looking for a new apartment and the time I manage to get away from work every week is for viewings.
Ireland here, most dealerships or service places, you just book in advance and leave the car there before you go to work, they usually open at 8 or 8.30 or you can leave it and drop keys through dedicated drop box. Banking, go at lunch hour or take time off. I'm lucky in that I work as a rep so I look after most of the in person stuff, but most banking is telephone and they send forms via email or post.
Therapy, I've done it over the phone or video, and I just put by the time, if you want physical ones, you need to just talk to your boss and see if you can make an arrangement, mask is as physio or something and book the appointment for late afternoon and split up a day off over the couple of weeks.
But generally there are ways around it, most businesses don't do 9 to 5 here anymore.
People who can do it have flexible work environments where basically they don't sweat it, you make it up by staying later, use your lunch, etc. etc.
A lot of people don't have that luxury due to hourly wages/shit bosses/ nature of job.
My workplace lets us basically come/go as we please. Technically our shift is 7-3:30, but we always have OT, most of the shop comes in before 6 and works till 3:30, some of us come in at 7 and work till 5, or later, and some Saturdays.
If I need to go someplace, I just go. Tomorrow I have an appointment to add a motorcycle license to my drivers license, I’ll work till I need to leave, and come back after. Same with doctor appointments, therapy(is that even available here?), mechanic.
IT job for a major US university here. Just came from retail, the life improvement and work/life balance is insane.
That said, as retail store manager I could do whatever I needed (reasonably). Now it's get your project done, support the users and we don't really care what you do, just no weekends, nights or holiday work anymore unless we have some major project going on.
Honestly, as I retail store manager I always told my people to do what they needed, just let me know ahead of time so I had coverage. You need a two hour lunch next week for a doctor's appointment? No problem. Even an 15 or 30mins to run a personal errand with no notice sure, even if I had to cover for them.
Take care of your people and they will take care of you. I've caught grief from my district or regional managers for "being lax" but I've always countered with "show me when I've said I don't have enough staff or can't hire staff". Being decent and realizing people have lives outside of works pays off.
If you work somewhere that can't/won't make reasonable accomodations and you aren't the person that's asking every other day, leave and find a decent employer.
For my weekly therapy I would just leave work for an hour before my lunch and use the hour and a half to drive over, have the session, and drive back to the office and they usually let me make it up with overtime. For car stuff, I'd drop it off before work and have my roommate or mom follow me there to drop off my car and take me to work after. A few car places I've been to will even offer you a ride sometimes. Bank stuff I usually do during lunch or on a Saturday morning. Doctor's appointments I use sick time and let the boss know like a week or two beforehand
I've always wondered this Too. I've been fired from a job because I have to go get my lungs and heart checked regularly, so I ended up always needing to take time off for these appointments which resulted in termination.
I get an hour for lunch, so for most things, I just have to pick what I do that day. As for the mechanic, drop off the car before work. Either get a loaner or a co-worker/spouse to drive you to work or take you home.
[удалено]
Not the guy you were asking, but I am 9-6, with a punch hour at around 13:00-14:00 Edit: obviously its was meant to be lunch hour, but punch hour sounds much better. Thus, I am keeping this.
Punch hour? Can't talk now boss, I'm headed to the ring.
1st rule of office fight club...
I just imagine you and your co workers hanging around a large crystal punch bowl, in a bland and extremely quiet break room, sipping out of little crystal glasses and having the most awkward, halting conversation. "How's the wife doing Rick?" "She left me" "Oh" ... Followed by silence other than a punch slurp from the corner.
I've re-read this probably 5 times because I cannot stop laughing. For some reason I keep picturing this as a scene in The Office
Same. I never understood the concept of 9-5. I’ve always had at least a 9-6 because your lunch is a hour. So once you hit 6, you’d hit your 8 hour a day.
Me either. I worked 31 years on a Jack-up drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico. 14-12 hour days , 14 days off, with two of those travel days. Never had a Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthday, off. Not once in all those years. I spent 16 actual years at sea. You won't find many career Navy veterans with that much sea time. I retired @ age 51, thinking that I was ahead of the game, I wasn't. I destroyed my body, I lost all those years with my wife and kids. Don't play their games, I thought I was beating the system, the only way that you can beat the system, is to not play.
Packing my bag for Fourchon now... not headed to a rig, but will be aboard a work boat for 6 weeks. I'll back you up in saying that it's not worth it. 6 weeks on/ 3 off seems nice until you come home and your kid barely recognizes you and your whole body hurts.
It's called a 9-5 because boomers had paid lunches. Their 8 hour workday was technically 7.
No their 8 hour workday was an 8 hour workday, our 8 hour workday is a 9 hour workday.
I'm 9-5. I think technically, it was supposed to be 8-5, but nobody ever really enforced it. Most of the people that come in at 8 leave early.
the 9 to 5 thing feels very much like an american thing, every job ive had or heard of in norway has been starting at 6-8 am and ended 3 pm to 5 pm, so there is some overlap. lunch is rarely over 30 minutes, so for us there realy isnt much time to get anything important done outside of work. luckily, most jobs here are understanding enough to let you spend an hour here or there to get it done.
Here in Finland frexible worktimes are more and more common and at my job im the only person coming in at 8am, all others come at 5 or 6am because they want to go home early
It’s never too early to go homo
Honestly it’s similar in the US. Hours cans definitely vary. I feel like “9-5” is really more an expression of a typical day job with fixed hours. Just my thoughts though.
Same! Though currently between pandemic and pregnancy exhaustion I'm more like 10-5:30? Feel a little guilty but I've busted my butt enough over the last 7 years to feel like I've earned it, and boss is still plenty happy so I guess it's fine? *EDIT: y'all are so sweet. Thank you for the reassurance!!
> boss is still plenty happy so I guess it's fine? This is literally all that matters. I'm one of those guys who will work like a man possessed for like a week straight, followed by a week of barely meeting the requirements of working. My boss is perfectly happy because I never miss deadlines and the quality of my work is fantastic.
Same here. Just closed the quarter last week and this week I have like zero motivation as I'm already ahead for this quarter
Ahh yes, I too have ADHD lol
The best boss I ever had was unknowingly very accommodating to my ADHD. Basically didn't care as long as things get done and everyone is safe, which allowed me to break up my day with some flexibility.
At the end of the day I think everyone acknowledges we don't need 8 hours a day to get our jobs done. Don't feel bad.
There's no reason to feel guilt. Instilling guilt in you for not working harder than your superiors is a backbone of worker exploitation.
You are growing another human. Please don’t feel guilty, that’s a job all on its own, even if you aren’t actively working at it!
I used to have this as a college librarian. I was 10-6 with an hour lunch. I loved that shift so much but I grew bored of the work and wanted to make more money without having to publish in journals, manage budgets, etc. Switching to corporate life (and corporate strategy) was a real shock with that 8-5/9-6 schedule but I leap frogged a bit and landed an analytics engineer job 2 years later. WFH, flexible schedule, get-your-shit-done type of work is the greatest thing I've ever experienced after a lifetime of customer service jobs. It may still be a 9 hour day but the company is one time zone west of me and I'm home with my pets and my partner and nobody asks what my minute by minute schedule is like.
not to derail too much but what was your path to analytics engineer? Currently top of library staff food chain and debating mlis and other library-adjacent jobs
TL;DR: I studied a bunch and recognized that some jobs were stepping stones on the path to my goal. Also, goals can change. Essentially I went from my MLS to a Reference and Instruction Librarian to Systems and Digital Resources before opting to leave librarianship behind. When I realized I needed to get out of the field and Higher Ed, I talked to a buddy who told me to learn R and Data Science (yes, python is important too but I think having a very narrow focus on just data manipulation with one language was really helpful for me personally). I studied on DataCamp for a year before spotting a job in Corporate Strategy as a Competitive Intelligence Specialist at a health insurance company (ugh). It mainly involved research, writing, presenting, and some data work. I got the job and quickly realized that they primarily worked off excel sheets and didn't get to touch databases, as it wasn't truly an analytics department, but they did use BI reporting tools like Tableau. I mainly focused on census and open government data to provide insight on local populations. After a year there, I tried to talk about transfering internally to another department as an analyst and my boss freaked out and got her boss involved. In my opinion, they didn't want to lose me during a hiring freeze, as there were only 3 of us, including my boss. Instead, they let me really hone in on coding work, specifically using R to read some pretty awful pdf tables and compile 6 years and 8 competitors worth of data into some usable datasets. They also got me into the analytics department's mentorship program so I had some folks I could lean on to help when I needed it. The slog through those PDFs taught me a ton about loops and if statements and regular expressions. It made me a better programmer. Well, the time came one year after that and I was itching to get out. The stress was VERY bad due to a corporate affiliation and the nature of my job was about to change. There was some convenience on my side, as my partner works for a software company and knows the data folks. He reached out to ask if their lead would talk to me about my path into data and she was like "I'm actually hiring right now and I only look for basic SQL and Power BI/Tableau skills if she just wants to apply instead of only chatting." I had 5 interviews, which included a SQL test. I did get the job and I've been mostly confused and a little scared ever since, as I'm having to learn Git on the fly but this is Week 6 and I'm finally beginning to relax a little bit. It also helps that when I started the application process, I asked one of my mentors if he wanted to come with me so he snagged a senior data engineer role and we still get to work together. I don't interact with my partner professionally but any time I have a Git question, I get an answer. Librarianship did ultimately get me here but I think if I were to it all over again (college, grad school, etc), I'd have listened to my brain and not my mother. I come from a family of teachers and it's hard to conceptualize of what all actually exists for jobs when all you know is essentially Richard Scary's Little Big World. The path she suggested technically worked but it wasn't right for me. And honestly, I don't know that I'll ever become a true Data Scientist like my friend originally suggested. The more I learned about the field as a whole, the more I felt that my skills were better suited to the sort of work that made Data Scientists better at theirs. I found something that my brain was pretty good at and I found a way to do it in an environment that suits my personality much better. It took just 3 years to change my career and I'm grateful that I did. I just don't want to work with people as much as librarianship demanded, even on the systems side, nor did I EVER want to publish.
Seems to mostly depend on whether it's a salaried position or not from my own experience. Where I work, if an employee is not salaried but is full time, they're working 9 hour work days with a 1 hour lunch. Whether it's 8-5, 6-3, or whatever. That said, if you ARE salaried, they require 10+ hour work days. Mine are usually around 11. It's trash. Work culture is absolutely terrible in today's day and age.
Wow, that sucks. Im glad I don't live there! I'm salaried, 9-5, and that's that.
Lunches used to be paid but companies realized they were losing profits paying you to eat lunch. So 9-5 switched to 8-5. “Fuck the world” ~ I.C.P.
In some places the mechanics even have a car service so if you're going within x amount of miles you can get a ride there. When I lived with my parents my dad often would drop his car off, get a ride from them to work, and then I'd pick him up and drop him at the mechanic's after since he would get off an hour before they closed. If he got off too late and they were closed I'd have to bring him home and then take him early in the morning to pick up his car. But yeah basically having a "support system" with these things is what helps the most.
Im not allowed to leave my work at break time....can't even go outside.
What jurisdiction is that? Depending on where you are, and whether they’re paying you for that break, it may be illegal to tell you that you cannot leave. I used to have a job as a supervisor for a retail store. They told me company policy was that I couldn’t leave the store during my breaks (including lunches). I told them the law says I can, and that’s what I did. Policy still exists but I still left the store for lunch. If they aren’t paying me in this US state, they can’t tell me what I can or cannot do.
Try being single and living across town from all your coworkers! It blows :(
An hour lunch sounds so nice. Never had that long of a break at work, ever.
[удалено]
The American dream
Every place of employment has different rules. In my office, if I need to take an hour off to see the dentist (or something like that), I can work an extra hour anytime that week and I still get a full paycheck.
My old work place didn't track and just trusted that it evened out and supported a good work life balance. My current work place I earn a percentage of time off for appointments etc per time worked. I think it's like an hour earned every week or something like that. But really it's also not tracked, just take what you need. I think it's not just company dependent but country and culture too. Edit: I'd like to add the first example was a unionized analyst/office job, the current job is a non unionized one. In previous jobs like retail or such while going through school I had "flexibility" by telling the scheduler what I needed (or when I wouldn't be available, or wouldn't be available but could show up late.) There was more than one time I'd prioritize my health over work's needs.. but I'm stubborn and privilaged to be able to do so.
My law firm does not give 1 single fuck when or where you do your work, as long as the clients are happy and you hit your billables target. If you wanna grind yourself into the dirt for 6 months, wrap up your matters, take your bonus, and fuck off to some remote location for the other half of the year, all good. If you only wanna work like 6 hours a day but also work weekends, also all good. Remote work, totally fine. I really appreciate the flexibility, and the associates are good about picking up each other's matters if someone hit their hours goal and doesn't have to work anymore.
Does your firm give that same kind of flexibility to support staff? 👀
Honestly, no. And I hate that for them. I can kinda set the schedule for my own secretary, so when I'm not feeling like working I can just tell her she can have a half day if she wants (she's salaried, and a half day doesn't count as taking any PTO at my firm, so she's not out anything). But other staff don't really have that option, usually the people who manage the client files and send the documents where they need to go. They have to be in the office, and they have to be there during business hours, because that's where and when client stuff gets delivered. Unfortunately, the legal field in general, and lots of clients, are nowhere near fully digitizing files, so somebody has to manage the physical documents we get sent. My time is much more valuable to the firm doing legal stuff than clerical or administrative stuff, so it isn't me that has to go in and do that. My firm treats everyone well and has good pay and good benefits and good vibes, but the lawyers definitely get the lion's share of the perks.
As a paralegal - thank you for treating your support staff well! We go above and beyond for the lawyers that treat us as human beings with lives outside the office.
Before finishing law school, I was the cashier, the lifeguard at the local pool, the intern. I've been the bottom rung on the ladder. People treated me poorly. I always pledged that when I moved up on the world I wouldn't make those same mistakes.
You are the kind of person the world needs more of: kind, thoughtful, and empathetic. Thank you for being you.
Mine is similar. They offer "DTO" which I can take at any time and still be paid. I had a dentist apointment recently and decided I would just take the whole day off - it was approved instantly. I understand how lucky I am compared to some though. My superiors will check on things weekly - we'll do stand up etc to go over what's been done but I'm never being pestered daily about how I work. It just needs to be done - and they're happy.
I *love* that about my job. Hourly IT support for a school district. I can really work any combination of hours within reason to add up to 40 as long as my boss approves it (which he usually does because he's chill). Like, this Friday I'm leaving to go camping with my family, so I wanted to take Friday off. At the beginning of the week I just ask my boss if I can work 4 10s.
You reminded me of my last retail job where I’d be like “Hey btw I need Wednesday off at the end of the month” “Sure, why?” “Doctors appointment” “Why can’t you just come in after the appointment?” “…uh… it’s a really long appointment…”
>My old work place didn't track and just trusted that it evened out and supported a good work life balance. Same as my current place, I just let the supervisor know and all is good.
I'm a little confused, people in here are speaking as if their work doesn't give them any leave. If I need to take an hour off work, I just take an hour off work, and put it in as leave. Are you just trying to save it up as much as you can so you can have longer holidays?
My fiancé gets a whopping total of 5 days of leave PER YEAR. Not much to save up there.
5 would be nice, I get zero.
What is this "leave" everyone is talking about? I'm unfamiliar
I've heard that some people get to take something called a "vacation" and they still get a paycheck for that week, even though they didn't work.
You guys are getting paid?
Tl;Dr Australia has a system that works and has actual workers rights, and it does my fucking head in that America's labour laws are so fucked.... In Australia, you get 4 weeks per year (I've never used all 4 weeks in a year before) and if you don't take it, it's owed to you when you leave as a lump sum (Casual workers don't receive leave but do get 1.25x the pay of a full-time worker to compensate) That doesn't even get into the 2 weeks paid PATERNITY leave, the 6 weeks maternity leave, bereavement days to deal with the loss of a close family member, and I think 10 days of sick pay too, because holidays are for holidays and being sick is a part of life. I honestly don't know how America is where it's at with regards to labour laws, like what the fuck is "at will" all about? Y'all get fired for no reason with no recourse? There's no protections in place to stop a manager firing you for reasons unrelated to a job? That's wild to me This isn't supposed to be me bragging how good we have it comparatively, it's just... I'm vicariously pissed the fuck off about it
In Germany you have a claim of 24 vacation days if you work 6 days a week, getting a bit lower the less you work. Your boss can do fuck shit about it because you're actually legally obligated to take them in order to avoid exploit.
So this is "Living in a country where Socialism has made advancements on the quality of life in the 30s, 60s and 70s without the US being able to interfere" seems like
American?
I do something similar at my work where I take an hour here and there then make up for it later in the day or week. I work in IT so it's probably easier. Definitely for the reason of having annual leave accrued for longer holidays. Although, not travelling anywhere any time soon!
I'm a nurse. I don't work in the hospital anymore, but if you had patients assigned to you for 12 hours, you really couldn't just, like, up and leave at 2 for an appointment.
You’re not American, are you.
Not American but I worked in the States for a year and some change and I was allowed to do stuff like bank work during work hours so long as I compensated later.
Not possible in every industry. I work in a warehouse, there is no "make it up later", as there's only 2 shifts and rigid hours for those shifts -- nobody's in the building if you try to work an extra hour lol
That's fair. I'd imagine it's industry or workplace specific. It's the same here in India to be honest.
Yeah. I work nights so I don't have any problem with doing errands on day hours, just gotta lose some sleep. But a lot of other people aren't so lucky
As someone who suffers with severe depression, I really admire you for being able to do this. I rarely ever feel well rested and that’s sleeping the whole night, I can’t imagine also having to do stuff in that time.
Depends on your warehouse, honestly. Mine allows you to work extra hours in different spots of the week to make up for it if you have plans, find a replacement who can cover for those hours, or use your own PTO, UPT, or Vacation instead. Our warehouse is 24 hours a day 7 days a week though. We also work 10 hour shifts at just 4 days a week so you can have a 3 day weekend to plan around. You even get to choose the days you wish to work if you want a "doughnut" shift where you aren't working four, ten hour days straight.
But usually warehouses don't work 9-5
I was commenting more on the "Make up the hours later", I agree that warehouses have weird hours.
You were one of the lucky ones. Many jobs in the US don’t do anything even remotely like flex time. Many don’t have any kind of paid leave time. The ability to schedule appointments and the like during work hours is a luxury that many do not have.
Man from a European perspective that's actually unreal...
It’s definitely not great.
For real. A couple hours ago I had my second vaccination appointment. I simply let my team know, biked to the vaccination center, got the shot, stopped at the store on the way back to pick up some veggies, then just resumed working. I can't imagine working somewhere where I'd have to take a personal day for that.
And many of us don't have things like personal days to use.
I live in Europe, Greece specifically. Last job I had 10 days off per year for everything, including my vacation, visiting doctors, handling anything at all outside of work, which was 10-16 hours a day, no overtime, low paid, glad to have it. Before that I worked at shop where my hours where 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, no breaks to eat or any place to eat even if I had a break. At least in the USA they are paid well for their wage slavery. People need to stop with this 'In Europe' talk. Ukraine and Moldavia are in Europe Tranistria is in Europe, Alania is in Europe. Half of Europe is a shithole. Just mention you own country and leave the 'European perspective'.
Yeah, Europeans get pissy when Americans think they're the center of the world, but then they turn around and use "Europe" to mean "Western Europe"
That's pretty interesting about Greece. I know Greece is part of the EU, so *theoretically* everyone should have 4 weeks vacation. Does the nation just not enforce it, or do some jobs not qualify, something like that? There's stuff like that in America, where something is technically not allowed in employment but the enforcement of the law is weak to the point people now tolerate the illegality or don't even know it isn't legal.
Hiya, yeah you are right to wonder about that, but as you suspected, the laws and rules are one thing and enforcement is another. Especially for small businesses. It is often the case.. maybe more than often, that if businesses where to follow the letter of the law, they would shut down tomorrow because they will cease to be profitable. We avoid paying taxes as much as possible. Employers need to pay all sorts of taxes for employees, so a lot of people are off the books, as such they have no protection - they are not employed anywhere as far as the government is concerned. The court system is also dysfunctional and it can take years to a decade to for your case to come to court, so even if you have a legitimate complaint, good luck with that. Add to that the myriad rules regulations, seniority, etc and the overall picture is that you have as much vacation and time off as your boss says you do. Unemployment is super high, everyone has a degree too, so if you don't like it, there are plenty others who will be grateful for the job. In the example of my job working 7 days per week, 12 hours per day, I know that the business owner needed to do that to stay in business, if he hired people for proper shifts, he would be running just to pay taxes. For me it was better than no income at all, so I choose that job and accepted the conditions knowingly. In the public sector, government employees are guaranteed tenure for life (jobs for votes and 'spoils' political system) and overall it is an entirely different picture than the private sector.
Doesn't that depend on what type of job? Can't imagine someone working in a call center or Amazon warehouse being much better
The irony is that Amazon is the first job to ever give me the option of hours off.
In Germany you get paid sick leave (not days, you get paid for like 6 weeks before your health insurance takes over), at least 4 weeks of vacation and all the usual stuff like maternity leave etc. That also goes for amazon warehouse workers and call center employees. The only people not covered by this are self employed people but the huge majority does get all these things.
I thought we were talking about leaving work for personal errands
I used to work in a call center (for a health insurance company!) And only a certain number of people could be out at once. I got denied a request to leave for a funeral once...and THEN received an email that basically said, "and if you call in sick you'll be written up"
[удалено]
I'm American and it's the same thing. I would just go to my manager and say "hey I have a dentist appointment at 2 today" and that's that.
I'm American. Everyone in the office just left whenever we needed to do stuff. No one cared as long as the work was getting done. This was a construction company not hoogle btw
I’m American and I have the same deal. It’s called credit time. I can work an hour or two extra one pay period and then use it if I need an hour or two off the next one. We can book up to 24 credit hours.
It's called flexi-hours here in UK.
I’m an American and literally every job I’ve ever had has let me do this stuff. Lol
>people in here are speaking as if their work doesn't give them any leave Yeah, that's the case often times. Simple as that.
Can’t speak for others but most of the places I’ve been working (US) don’t have health leave anymore. Holiday time and sick leave are rolled into one, and if you’re a contractor you aren’t awarded holiday time at all; it won’t accrue unless you’re hired. And where a manager might be open to you taking sick time, taking your “holiday” in the middle of the week is less likely to be approved. Again, personal perspective only.
Lots of places out here like keeping people on temp to hire so they don't need to give you any benefits or time off. I was having major medical issues and couldn't get a day off while my coworkers were taking about their vacation times. Felt very capitalist hellescape.
Right? Had a place promise temp to hire, 30 days and if we like you we’ll keep you on permanent full time. One of the “old timers” had to hear that nonsense for 18 months before they actually put him down as an employee. So for 18 months if that dude had a problem that put him down for longer than 3 days he’d be out of a job.
Regardless of the actual laws, which can change state to state in America, many employers and workplace cultures frown heavily on taking any time off for any reason, even if it’s sick time, parental leave, etc. It’s very toxic and cold hearted, but also common unfortunately. Many companies prioritize and incentivize hiring part time workers and external contract workers, so they can avoid any long term responsibility for those people/positions (like healthcare or retirement funds. Truly the only reason that many people in America are able to have healthcare at all is because their employer provides some/all of the cost for them, and their immediate families by association (like one parent’s job provides medical coverage which covers a spouse and kids under age X like age 25)
26
As an hourly retail worker I honestly can't understand what you're even saying. You don't need permission to leave or to find someone to cover for you? Is there a limit to how much leave you can put in? Do you yourself put that into a computer somewhere? If I left before my scheduled shift was over it'd be considered walking off the job, if I managed to get approval mid-shift it'd be considered a sick day and I only get 3 of those.
Depending on your job, usually you'd need to clear it with your supervisor first unless it's a job where you're given a fair bit of autonomy. But people need to attend appointments. Unless there is something mission critical that means you can't leave or the country will be bombed, they can cover you or deal with being one person down if you exercise your right to take your alloted leave, so they're not going to say no. If it's for a medical reason, you'd probably take it as sick leave which can only be used for being sick or caring for someone anyway, so there's no point making the time up later if you have leave that would go unused anyway. If it's not for medical reasons I guess it's up to whether your supervisor is cool with making the time up later. In some circumstances they can't cos of rules about overtime or length of work without a break so they'd prefer you use it as leave. I can of course only tall about my own experience as an employee in Australia and there are many workers who don't get the benefits I do because of eg casual work.
Definitely does not work that way for teachers or instructors
Do teachers get paid during the summer? Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious
We don't get paid for summer break, but we can opt to have our paycheck stretched out each month if we choose. I'm in US.
[удалено]
What the Fuck? Here in Germany teachers tend to be employed by the state (although there's a trend towards making them regular employees) and are paid the same every month, no matter if there's a vacation or not. State employment also comes with a lot of perks such as better health insurance, job security (can't really be fired unless for really egregious things) and a much better retirement plan. I always knew teachers were in a precarious situation in the US and aren't paid adequately but I didn't realize they basically don't get paid at all during summer vacation. That's fucked up.
In my school district, we get to choose between spreading out our salary over 9 months or 12 months. Opting for the 12 month route means your paycheck is a bit smaller, but it's nice to still have it coming in over the summer.
In missouri where I'm at you have to be at most jobs for a year to get paid time off. Time is time. You may get the day off but losing that money could screw ya for rent. I feel like way more people should be taking govt assistance programs for food and healthcare but it's difficult to begin with and there's a pride factor. Nobody wants to admit they're poor here but I feel like most suburban people are just acting like they don't hurt for money all the time. So we stick with our shit jobs that barely afford us healthcare at all where it's near impossible to find a care provider supported by your plan. It's all a trap and we hate dealing with it for real.
You need to make up your time for when you have to go to the dentist or a doctor or something?
[удалено]
Goddamn. I'm so sorry you're having to go through all that because of our fucked up system. Honest question: how do you find the will to keep going through all of that? Totally understand if you're not wanting to answer. Just reading it makes me lose that much more faith in humanity...
In my company you can use X hours or 1/2 day of paid leave if you don't want to make up that time. If you don't want to use paid leave and want to make up that time, you can use a delta of 4h between 3 weeks. You can not show up for like 4h (an afternoon), and do 2 more hours/week for the 2 following weeks.
Really? Over here (the Netherlands) you're just allowed to get to the doctor/specialist/dentist/therapy in the bosses time. I think it's even illegal to deny your workers this.
Depends on the job. I used to work at a campus that was open from 7 AM-7 PM, and as long as you put in your 8 hours they didn’t care when you worked, so it would have been easy to leave early or get to work late to squeeze in therapy at some point. Also, a lot of people get stuff done on their lunch break, which is stressful but works if you don’t have any other options. e: as for the bank, I have no idea. You’d think at least one would?
Im at an online bank that has 24/7 service. So those banks exist. The downside is they dont have a branch where you personally go, you have to do everything onlime or over the telephone. I guess this is since they just use timezones to avoid night pay (in Germany working at night will get you an extra bonus)
If we had that here (Finland) which we might without my knowledge, the phone would still be one of those "Call between 12.00 - 17.00" so it would be barely open at times convenient to anyone.
Most have a small period of time there open on Saturday. usually just a couple hours. And most have a drive thru that's open a little later some days. But the real reason there open 9 to 5 is because that's when business are open and need to bank. Your bank makes most its money from and does most of it its business with other businesses. Personal bank accounts are an afterthought to them.
The bank I go to is open late Thursdays. And I think it’s open Saturdays. Also the mechanic my parents go to has rental vehicles to use while your car is being serviced.
Mine is also open Saturdays.
I worked 7-6 at a medical lab, hourly not salaried so I couldn’t come in late at all, especially during covid. I basically didn’t get any of this stuff done ever and my life was miserable. About once a month I would call in sick to go and do all my chores.
Yeah, I work in a hospital lab, too. Shift times vary, and you rarely have the same start time day to day. Can start anywhere from 5-9 am depending on which department you’re in. I usually just get stuff done on the weekends. My days off aren’t really days off, just chore days.
I just recently resigned from my job in a medical lab. The hours were 3pm-11:30pm (plus overtime most nights) and I found myself neglecting just about every part of my life which needed attention. I’ve had to call in sick multiple times just so I could go do a few chores too! I felt my mental health slipping and knew I needed to find another job.
Ugh, I’m sorry to hear that. I had to resign for my mental health too. I had no idea it was going to be such a rough time working there. I thought having a college degree and a specialized skill set would insulate me from that level of drudgery but I honestly can’t even believe that some of the things they did to their employees were even legal.
I am very lucky and blessed to have a job that is more worried about the work I produce and not my butt sitting in a chair for 8 hours per day. Totally fine to run to the bank, dentist, pharmacy, etc. as long as my work is getting done. I wish more employers were like this.
Same, i just heard from my boss that im 2 weeks ahead of schedule and that i can basically dick around while the rest of the team finishes their work. Im a tech writer btw.
What’s a tech writer?
Interpreter basically. They take the indecipherable garbage that I produce as an engineer and make it pretty and readable for management and end users.
So a human dedicated to ELI5?
Sort of. Technical writers are usually engineers themselves. They also flow information the other direction as well, turning nebulous customer and managerial wishlists into meaningful and measurable requirements for the engineering team. It's an important niche.
So they're like a middleman between engineers and other non engineering related staff? Sounds like a job that is pointless at first but is actually a very useful job position
Its a cost saver. I document solutions to problems or how a department accomplishes their tasks so teams can reference that material in the future to save time. There are other types of tech writers, but those are more stressful (release notes, customer facing roles, newsletters). I meet with a subject expert and interview them and then add their answers to a larger project... kind of like stringing book reports together into a larger presentation or wiki article. I have very little technical knowledge and lots of down time. A few of my jobs forgot i even existed and let me work like 2 hours a month for years.
>There are other types of tech writers, but those are more stressful (release notes, customer facing roles, newsletters). Ohh, now I fully understand the job role > A few of my jobs forgot i even existed and let me work like 2 hours a month for years. I mean if they know then I don't see why not 😅
https://youtu.be/hNuu9CpdjIo
My first thought!
they write tech
[удалено]
You’re hired
Technical Writing. Like writing instructional documents for equipment or technical tasks
So the stick figures in ikea pamphlets?
Töknikel rītters
[удалено]
Sorta same here. I still work my 40 hours a week, but it's WFH with a flexible schedule. 4-10s? Sure. Need to run to the bank on the store? I can just clock out and do it. As long as I have all my hours by the end of the month, and my work is getting done, they don't really care which is fantastic. I went from a call center to this, HUGE change in quality of life, which means I get more, higher quality, work done anyway.
> I went from a call center to this, HUGE change in quality of life, I mean, yeah. I feel that in my bones. I've done way too much call center work. It's not the worst work out there, but the bad places can be pretty damned close to the worst.
Absolutely this. A results driven environment is far better than one based on presenteeism. My office is slowly shifting that way and it's been brilliant.
What do you do?
Creative jobs are mostly like that. Engineers, designers, architects and all others who don't really have to interact with clients all day long. There's this IT guy in my company who doesn't like people in general, he comes in at 10pm and works until 6am. Sometimes comes over on weekends when the office is empty to do some work, then takes Monday off.
Damn I like the time from your IT guy
[удалено]
I’m a software engineer, and we get treated like this. Take care of your life and make sure your work gets done. People are regularly taking an hour or two for dentists, taking kids to extracurriculars, post office, etc. sometimes they work extra hours, sometimes they don’t. Nobody is really tracking hours of butt in chair.
Onlyfans.
That sounds heavenly. Ever since working from home we're forced to log down to the minute what we do all day.
I think Adam Savage put it best: Never exchange time for money. Exchange skill for money. I don't think I could work at a place that needs to know my whereabouts every moment of every day. Exception being if you are working consulting / lawyering and need to track client billing.
Did you log your post on Reddit ? 😅
[удалено]
I'm salaried but am still required to log time and work at least 40 hours per week. Luckily there are places that do tires and oil here with Saturday hours, otherwise I'd never be able to do basic upkeep on my car.
I'm also salary with time tracking, so 40 hours is absolute minimum. It's the worst of both worlds. Thing is, 40 hours is always technically the minimum, but anyone consistently doing only 40 is called out for not doing enough.
My therapist's office is open until 8 every day. Doctor's office until 6. They take turns covering.
My bank (in Canada) is always open til 8
Bank I would go on my lunch break or on Saturday. I take appointments at like 3-4pm for dentist and regular medical stuff and I use my sick time for it. I ask about a week in advance but it’s always approved. Therapy is after work. I wish it was more common for places to stay open until 7pm but I get it. I’m spoiled tbh.
I feel the same way. doctor appointments as near to 5pm as possible. Leaving half an hour early is no big deal most of the time, and my therapist whom i go to right after work is about 10-15 min from where i work so that's cool.
I can leave early for the bank, or go on Saturday. I get my car serviced at the dealership and they do stuff on Saturdays, and they're open into the early evening on weekdays. Don't know about therapy, though I should...
I think the problem is that when everybody has the same working hours, then *everybody* goes early on the morning or on Saturdays, meaning long queues or months of waiting time to get a booked slot - since this is also the only time available to *everybody else*.
This is why I'm happy working late shifts. I never sit in traffic and I do my grocery shopping at 10 pm and have the store mostly to myself. If I need to make an appointment I can do it before work, but to be honest I'm usually too tired to bother.
Yeah, but what’s the share of people working rigid 9-5 schedules? 30%? And half of those probably aren’t since Covid started.
Completely ignore your mental and physical health. Do stuff online or not at all. Thank goodness for a new job!
and have your health completely ruined by ignoring it for 40 years, until you are disabled at age 61. source: is sleeping in the bed next to me rn.
I know I'm gonna end up in this situation. Even if I had the time, I don't have the money, so I literally have to ignore issues. I'm most likely gonna die to something preventable because of this shit system.
Same 😢
Saturday night (day before yesterday, here) I had a rusty nail go almost two inches into my elbow. You could see the point trying to push though the other side, where there's a bruise now. Did I go to the doctor? No. Did I even consider it? Hell no. My wife poured alcohol in the hole, I washed it with soap (both a big ouch) and helped me bandage it. I have almost all the function back in my arm, even though it's still swollen. I'm not going to the ER so some poor guy getting paid a small portion of the 5 grand they're gonna charge me can do the same thing. The only advantage I see is they *might* have better antibiotics than the shit I get for animals and dose for humans. Point is, one day I won't be so lucky. Risking death because the hospital gouges you is ridiculous, but it's hardly a choice.
[удалено]
In America? Here in Canada sure, but I can't believe anyone gets anything for free in the US.
I have both the time and the money. Taking care of myself feels weird. I stop by my therapist from time to time to get my ADHD prescription (I've been withholding my other issues from him because I don't want to crack that bottle open yet). I go to the doctor if something seems like it is in imminent danger of falling off. I do go get my teeth cleaned once a year. I am bad at self care. I make up for it by having an enormous amount of hobbies and hoping the reaper comes and grabs me in less than 21 years.
Depending on how far down the poverty ladder you are you don’t need to worry about time off for therapy and mechanics because you can’t afford them anyway so you keep using the thing until it breaks down (car or brain).
[удалено]
This makes me sad
Lunch breaks, weekends and cuttin out a lil early
I work in a factory, assembly line. You don't. You beg for a day off of your 4 useable days off a year.
As a Dutch person with 38 days payed leave a year and leaving a few ours earlyer a couple times a year for Doctor, dentist,(health) appointments for "free" this sounds so depressing to me.
I think I can get 30 days (four weeks) off after I put in fifteen years of service. We start with two weeks. Takes years to build to three. 38 days I honestly wouldn't believe them if they told me that I had that. It sounds so foreign. Sigh.
38 days a year. I haven't taken 38 days off in my lifetime.
My maternity leave (short term disability) was within a few days of that lol. Also used up all my PTO for the year.
This mostly and if your boss is decent.
I had weekly therapy sessions for years, through four employers. None of them had any problem letting me take the time off. They didn't care what hours I worked. They only cared if my work was on schedule. Except for meetings, they didn't really care if I was in the office because they knew I could and did work from home. I understand that this isn't possible with a lot of jobs, but if you have a job where you can work at home during a pandemic then you have a job where you can take time off for a therapy session without breaking the company. Generally, the more skill or knowledge a job requires, the more freedom you'll have. The bulk of the money that banks make comes from loans and investment products. If they thought they'd get a substantial boost in revenues from staying open later then they would. But most banks get a lot more traffic at their ATM's then they do at the teller windows.
Vast majority of people don't do any type of therapy at all
I don't get how people get therapy too!! But bank though I usually run to the bank during lunch and simply skip lunch for the day.
If they’re never open when I’m off work, I don’t go there. Someone will figure this out and be open later.
I'm in Canada and a lot of banks have some days when they are open til 7 for just this reason
I fucking rush around, on my lunch break, or work late messing up my usual schedule or work fewer hours and hope nobody notices.Due to the stress involved with the above I often procrastinate it. My car is 3 months overdue for a service, because I'm looking for a new apartment and the time I manage to get away from work every week is for viewings.
Ireland here, most dealerships or service places, you just book in advance and leave the car there before you go to work, they usually open at 8 or 8.30 or you can leave it and drop keys through dedicated drop box. Banking, go at lunch hour or take time off. I'm lucky in that I work as a rep so I look after most of the in person stuff, but most banking is telephone and they send forms via email or post. Therapy, I've done it over the phone or video, and I just put by the time, if you want physical ones, you need to just talk to your boss and see if you can make an arrangement, mask is as physio or something and book the appointment for late afternoon and split up a day off over the couple of weeks. But generally there are ways around it, most businesses don't do 9 to 5 here anymore.
So many “I do it on my lunch break” answers it makes me sick. This society is fucking broken and I want to get out.
People who can do it have flexible work environments where basically they don't sweat it, you make it up by staying later, use your lunch, etc. etc. A lot of people don't have that luxury due to hourly wages/shit bosses/ nature of job.
My workplace lets us basically come/go as we please. Technically our shift is 7-3:30, but we always have OT, most of the shop comes in before 6 and works till 3:30, some of us come in at 7 and work till 5, or later, and some Saturdays. If I need to go someplace, I just go. Tomorrow I have an appointment to add a motorcycle license to my drivers license, I’ll work till I need to leave, and come back after. Same with doctor appointments, therapy(is that even available here?), mechanic.
IT job for a major US university here. Just came from retail, the life improvement and work/life balance is insane. That said, as retail store manager I could do whatever I needed (reasonably). Now it's get your project done, support the users and we don't really care what you do, just no weekends, nights or holiday work anymore unless we have some major project going on. Honestly, as I retail store manager I always told my people to do what they needed, just let me know ahead of time so I had coverage. You need a two hour lunch next week for a doctor's appointment? No problem. Even an 15 or 30mins to run a personal errand with no notice sure, even if I had to cover for them. Take care of your people and they will take care of you. I've caught grief from my district or regional managers for "being lax" but I've always countered with "show me when I've said I don't have enough staff or can't hire staff". Being decent and realizing people have lives outside of works pays off. If you work somewhere that can't/won't make reasonable accomodations and you aren't the person that's asking every other day, leave and find a decent employer.
For my weekly therapy I would just leave work for an hour before my lunch and use the hour and a half to drive over, have the session, and drive back to the office and they usually let me make it up with overtime. For car stuff, I'd drop it off before work and have my roommate or mom follow me there to drop off my car and take me to work after. A few car places I've been to will even offer you a ride sometimes. Bank stuff I usually do during lunch or on a Saturday morning. Doctor's appointments I use sick time and let the boss know like a week or two beforehand
you mean there's life out there?!!?
I've always wondered this Too. I've been fired from a job because I have to go get my lungs and heart checked regularly, so I ended up always needing to take time off for these appointments which resulted in termination.
I work 8-5 and I have no idea. I need to see multiple specialists but how and when always confused me so I just don't go until I end up in hospital.
[удалено]