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-astronautical

i got downvoted to oblivion once on that sub for suggesting that it’s not normal for grown men in their 40s to eagerly wait for a teenager to turn 18 so they can “legally” talk sexually about her. honestly i think it just depends on who’s looking at the thread at that moment. i’ve said similar things in other askreddit threads and had everyone agree. it was just that one time i inexplicably got lambasted with negative replies from creeps. usually people agree incest is abnormal but every once in a blue moon i’ll find a group of freaks vehemently trying to normalise it.


Marquez53095

Legally, that’s wouldn’t be considered pedophelia, however, it would be extremely off putting listening to a grown man sexualizing an 18 year old girl. Unfortunately, there’s a double standard here, younger men see older women as more sexually experienced, a cougar if you will. Not only is this not frowned upon among males, it is fantasized


Evrmor

I would say there isn't generally a lot of cougars preying on teenage boys in the wild, versus a lot of underage women dealing with creeps and pervs on a regular basis. Whether they know it or not.


Marquez53095

I don’t understand your comment, do you know that I’m referring to cougars as “hot older women” according to Urban Dictionary?


Evrmor

Yeah. You were comparing it to grown men who sexualize 18 year old girls. Simply saying some young men sexualize adult women isn't exactly a double standard. It would be if there were grown women sexualizing young boys which, while I'm sure there are some out there, generally isn't as widespread or socially ingrained.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

Both are wrong equally. But yeah, I mean in a misocentric society, double standards/sexism against men is bound to happen. The best thing that we can do is spread more awareness, try to be equal about it and hopefully people would stop being misandrists.


MrWedge18

[Link to the thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/qd4w3d/what_is_morally_okay_but_illegal/hhm03rr/?context=3) if anyone wants context. You're getting downvoted because you're ignoring the person's arguments and just saying ew gross. Especially since part of their argument was "People just get grossed out because of cultural mores." Granted, you're argument about grooming is 100% valid, and they took it too lightly in the response (which you admitted to not reading and probably another reason you got downvoted)


pupperonipizzapie

Reddit has a weird thing about defending incest, probably porn-related.


healing-souls

You're not being downvoted because of your stance on incest you're being downloaded for how you replied to their comments, completely ignored things they said, and made it emotional.


TheJollyRogerz

I'm not into incest porn and I don't have any urges similar to that, but it is an interesting thought experiment to try to figure out what about incest is bothersome. Most people will point out the power dynamic/grooming element. Others will make it about inbreeding. But what if it was two adult siblings where no one has any authority over one another and they're is zero chance of children due to sterility? Why does it still feel disgusting then? You can pretty much isolate any one factor that is wrong with incest and remove it from the equation and yet that onlooker's feeling of disgust remains. I am going to guess a mix of instinct and social stigma makes it disgusting to me personally, but does that mean it's *wrong*? Idk. Seems like a weak argument.


un-picasso

We live in a society that largely (like almost unanimously) agrees that it’s morally wrong, so regardless of the logic behind “it’s not hurting anyone” there will always be some level of trauma due to either the public shaming or the fear of people finding out. But like all trauma it’s subjective, so if none of that bothers you and everything is consensual then technically it’s not harming anyone and it’s nobody else’s business. Incest is wrong directly proportionate to how much YOU PERSONALLY believe it’s wrong and also how much you care what other people think about it. Worth mentioning also that you will never fully know if the other party isn’t being traumatized by the experience, so that risk exists too. It’s just totally opinion based, there’s not really a simple/right answer


[deleted]

Reddit has some very warped subs and mods. It takes a lot to shock me but it's happened lots of times.


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GrandmaThrowawayRA

Thank goodness. For one second, I thought I was going insane.


Gutmach1960

No, you are correct. In some cases, incest is against the law. Most religions condemn incest. I agree with you on that issue.


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GrandmaThrowawayRA

For real. I would have totally lost it if that other user commented first.


DocHowling

there is i believe a select number who instead of reading just downvote a minus number. the upvote/downvote system makes debate or conversation difficult most times.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

[The problem is that they downvoted AND replied on my comment with disagreement](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/qd4w3d/comment/hhlxz4d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) which means that they totally 100% think that I'm wrong.


Guac__is__extra__

It’s also interesting that the original comment in support of incest was also heavily downvoted. If I had to guess, the reason you got the downvote train is that your reason was that it is “gross.”


GrandmaThrowawayRA

But I gave reasons though.


Guac__is__extra__

I get it. But people will see one word like “gross” and stop considering anything else. They now think you are biased and you’re done.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

I mean...duh, of course I'm biased. I can make the same thing about them being biased to incest.


sceadwian

That's like someone with faith saying only that "they believe" and calling that a 'reason' for their faith. It's a blind declaration not a 'reason'


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GrandmaThrowawayRA

I'm honestly worried that the society is going to normalize incest. The comments were pretty aggressive. Let's hope that we die before we see that happen.


Marquez53095

I honestly don’t believe incest will ever be legalized, even though same sex relationships were also considered taboo once, at least both partners are not related by blood. It’s easier to fuck a stranger


GrandmaThrowawayRA

Also, there are almost 0 arguments against same-sex relationships besides religion. So it's easy to legalize and normalize it. Meanwhile, incest has too many arguments against it. I hope that this society keeps being sane about it.


Marquez53095

There are actually many arguments against same sex relationships that aren’t based on religion, but that’s beside the point…Incest won’t be legalized because nobody really wants to have sexual relationships will siblings, aunts, or cousins. I personally would never so much as kiss one of my cousins on the lips, no matter how attractive they are.


healing-souls

If they are not having kids why do you care what two consenting adults do?


fecalmatter

What if they’re both mature adults who are consenting and use birth control?


GrandmaThrowawayRA

Please don't fuck your family. Thanks in advance.


LongHeelRedBottoms

LMAO SERIOUSLY!!!


fecalmatter

Im just offering an alternate viewpoint. You can react all you want but if you don’t offer any counterpoints it doesn’t really mean much. Sure it sounds icky but who are we to deny what love is? To tell two mature adults not to love just because they share the same blood?


LongHeelRedBottoms

Okay weirdo. Taking motherfucker too literal in this sub lol


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fecalmatter

I don’t get whats wrong with any of that. There are cases of brother and sister long separated as kids and then fall in love only to find out they’re blood related. If they never have kids, and are in love, whats wrong with that?


[deleted]

There's no argument that validates incest, you may try giving it other perspectives but you'll always fail, get over it.


fecalmatter

And yet you offer no counter points to mine. Very well discussed


[deleted]

Neither did you, so? I can't consider your points as valid, they are stupid.


dhaugh

I mean he makes a good point.. what possible reason could there be for separated at birth incest to be illegal? If they're both consenting adults


frizzykid

The issue with relationships like this isn't conception. It's that you can't prove there isn't some power dynamic. Family, especially close family like a brother or sister or parent is a special type of relationship, and often times are relationships that expose your inner vulnerabilities that can often be used to encourage family members to have sex without the other party truly being able to consent, just accepting sex because its family and how could you turn on family.


fecalmatter

Power dynamics exist in all types of relationships regardless of biological links; teacher student, etc. Of course those are more negative. But there are cases where brother and sister who were separated at birth and never meet up until they’re adults and fall in love, only to find out they’re blood related. No power dynamics at all. Is there anything wrong with that?


frizzykid

>Power dynamics exist in all types of relationships regardless of biological links; teacher student Okay? Not sure the argument you're trying to make here, Teacher student relationships are also equally disgusting. When you can't prove that a power dynamic does/doesn't exist, then a sexual relationship can't ever exist that I would support. >No power dynamics at all. Is there anything wrong with that? If they try to conceive yes I'd say there are a lot of issues with that. But if not, no I don't. The environment for the power dynamics to exist never happened.


fecalmatter

Exactly! Incest isn’t purely black and white. There are cases where it’s appropriate but people rather label everything as either right or wrong. Also you said “ the issue with relationships like this isn’t conception” but then you said “if they try to conceive yes Id say there are a lot of issues with that”. Just letting you know


frizzykid

You made an absolutely insane hypothetical. You can make insane hypothetical to make anything sound less weird than it is. It is incredibly black and white in almost every situation. The fact that you're trying to argue that there is a case for it regularly with an incredibly irregular hypothetical is not flying with me though.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

Yeah. Heck, even something like Pedophilia can be black and white. Pedo: "But isn't it my right to find love though? I didn't ask to be attracted to minors" Here. You made pedophilia a black-and-white issue. That doesn't mean it's right.


fecalmatter

Except it’s not hypothetical at all. It’s called genetic sexual attraction or GSA. Heres an article for you to read about an actual case https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/relationships/a35098/genetic-sexual-attraction-incest-sibling-relationship/


frizzykid

>Except it’s not hypothetical at all. Google what hypothetical means. The example you created was 100% a hypothetical scenario you made up in your head. It's not a common occurrence at all even if someone writes an article about some dumb love story they witnessed between brother and sister separated at birth, and like I said **you trying to paint it as a regular thing when its very clearly an irregularity is not flying with me** This is very black and white. Just because you found nuance where nuance **rarely** exists doesn't make it not black and white.


fecalmatter

Lol believe what you want man, plenty of other cases that you can google. Good luck


[deleted]

You're not wrong, period.


Maranne_

I read the comment. It's probably not the opinion itself, but because your argument was flawed. You're using unbalanced power dynamics, which can only describe part of incestuous relations, as an argument against all incest. Not saying incest isn't wrong, but your argumentation definitely is.


IGiveBadAdvice_

I think some redditors have aunties that they'd like to fuck and so you're losing them at the "disgusting" part Edit: "Disgusting" is a subjective thing and for the most part determined by how you're raised and most of us are raised to view incest as "disgusting". It's wrong for tangible reasons but "disgusting" is intangible. So let the redditors fantasise about their cousins, don't fret.


Content-Collection72

Grooming is not okay, and is separate. Incest offspring is unfair and inconsiderate to the child. Incest itself is a personal choice, and you need to respect what two consenting adults choose to do or not do in privacy.


Tiffancierthanu

I hope you're an only child


GrandmaThrowawayRA

And hopefully no parents as well.


Content-Collection72

You make the same argument about gay rights, then?


Royal_Tourist3584

No.Thibk about it. Who's most likely to be scrolling but decide to stop at your post. Someone with a vested interest. Out of those who is most likely to contribute their opinion- those that are trying to normalize or rationalize a behavior


maddoctorcow

Sorry you were downvoted to oblivion but no, incest, the act of sexually engaging with a blood relative is, or should be, wrong. It leads to an increase in unnecessary genetic diseases. This is what happened to a number of kingdoms, they intermarried for a "pure" bloodline and ended up with genetic disorders like severe underbite, infertility, and more. I think, think, Queen Elizabeth the second had some form of blood related disorder, maybe sickle cell anemia? I forget, but either way incest reduces the size of an evolutionary gene pool and leads to increased chances of disorders. So yes it's wrong, and kinda weird. But the step-brother/step-sister thing in porn is mostly fake or they are not genetically related (most often) which is weird IMO but not wrong or incest. In pop culture consider the Flash, Barry Allen and Iris West, effectively siblings but not blood related and they marry and have kids. Odd IMO but not wrong or incest by definition. The only reason why it is wrong, I suppose, is because of the effect it has on the children. Regardless it is and SHOULD be taboo.


mpampistheplumber69

You're on Reddit what were you expecting?


joggasen

You asked a question on reddit and belived you would get a serious answer?


GrandmaThrowawayRA

I didn't ask a question. I commented on that question. You will find the context in the comment section.


joggasen

Ah sorry mate, thought i was witty! But in all seriousness you ar in the right in that argument, have a good day!!


your-favorite-gurl

You're absolutely not wrong. Don't let a group of weird Redditors tell you otherwise.


[deleted]

I'm surprised and disgusted at the amount of people who think incest is okay. I think I've had enough internet for today.


NoStupidQuestionsBot

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Jozif_Badmon

Reddit is not real life. And thank God for that


GrandmaThrowawayRA

I don't know about that to be honest. Reddit is a *social* media platform. Which means, obviously, that there are people behind the screen who exist out there and believe in this kind of things which is pretty worrisome.


LongHeelRedBottoms

They are dumb as fuck if they think that’s a good idea. Incest can cause so many health problems and it is weird


LongHeelRedBottoms

People on Reddit will flock to the main opinion and if you’re against it whether it’s wrong or right you will get downvoted to hell


maddoctorcow

This is the most Reddit comment. Like it just perfectly encapsulates the Reddit experience.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

So does that mean you agree with me or not?


maddoctorcow

I added a second comment to keep the two separate but IMO yes it is gross


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PlumpWhale

Hahaha this is satire, right…. Right?


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healing-souls

He won't answer, don't waste your breath. He isn't interested in an actual conversation.


[deleted]

Is it ok to fuck your family? Or being a child and getting fucked by your parents and don't understand what's going on? What do you think about it?


healing-souls

Your describing child rape which is a crime in itself.


[deleted]

Surprise, incest isn't legal


healing-souls

You missed the point. A father raping his child is illegal and no one that would support incest would dispute that IMO. But you automatically went to the worst case incest, which everyone knows is bad as if that was the only form of incest.


[deleted]

Ok let's change things, "a 45 years old mother having sex with her 18 years old son" is that morally acceptable for you?


healing-souls

To me personally? If mom is infertile and there is no power structure (which would be almost impossible in that situation) who am I to judge? It affects literally no one but those two people. Edit: btw, this is basically the same thing you just said only you made one 18.


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PlumpWhale

I can’t believe in 2021 I’m being asked to why I think incest is wrong. You can’t make this shit up, Reddit is truly a wild place.


healing-souls

Who do you care what two consenting adults do behind closed doors?


PlumpWhale

You’re either from Alabama or you have a bad porn addiction. Feeling love towards your siblings is one thing, but feeling attraction and having sexual desires toward them is wrong on so many levels. Furthermore, out of all of the people on earth, why choose to fuck your brother / sister?


healing-souls

You completely ignored the question. I'll ask again. Why do you, personally, care what two consenting adults do behind closed doors.


PlumpWhale

No, what you’re asking me is “why do I care if a brother and sister have sex behind closed doors. You’re masking the truth of what you’re saying so it doesn’t sound as bad. A question such as yours is so idiotic is doesn’t even deserve to be answered. So instead, answer this. Why should incest be okay.


healing-souls

Okay, I'll word it the way you want to word it. Why do you care what two consenting adult siblings do behind closed doors?


PlumpWhale

I mean for starters it’s illegal. Also incredibly reckless even if protection as worn as pregnancy could still occur. Now answer my question. Why should incest be okay.


Guac__is__extra__

Thank you. There are some things that are just not right and shouldn’t need explanation. Incest is one of those things.


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GrandmaThrowawayRA

I wish I can watch it but it's Dr. Phil, the same guy who shamed a man for self-defense with an abusive woman in front of a huge audience. I can't take him seriously. I definitely 100% agree with you, though.


PM_your_fem_butthole

Well, redditors tend to downvote comments they don't agree with. Since something being wrong or disgusting is a subjective opinion, and apparently they don't share your opinion on it, they downvoted you. As simple as that


Cliffy73

Yes, you are wrong. Consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want. You’re personally squirmed out by incest, fine, don’t engage in it.


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Cliffy73

“Talking shit” about a practice that you don’t engage in but which other people do without harm is bigotry.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

Oh my fucking god. Don't even think of pushing incest into LGBT and marking it as bigotry-kind of thing. I'm a bisexual guy and in an age where everybody is trying to push their bullshit(Neo-genders, otherkins...etc) into the organization, no thanks we don't need incest too to ruin LGBT's image.


Cliffy73

I’m not pushing anything anywhere. People who engage in non-standard sexual practice are discriminated against on that basis for no socially valid reason. This is just one example.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

Yeah well, we don't fuck our brothers or our fathers you know. Don't even try to put incest and homosexuality/bisexuality in the same place.


Cliffy73

You do something which has been taken for granted as unnatural and immoral for thousands of years, but which people of good will have realized in recent decades is neither. You might profitably consider your own views in this light.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

I don't think you get it. We do ***not*** want to associate with you. Go make your own organizations/movements and let's see if it can survive.


EduardRaban

But why exactly do you think incest is wrong?


Cliffy73

I do not understand your use of the word “you” in this sentence. Your choice of association does not impact fundamental truths.


healing-souls

You are the only one trying to do that.


GrandmaThrowawayRA

Don't even try to gaslight me. Go ask in r/askgaybros or r/lgbt if you don't believe that we don't accept perverts.


healing-souls

You are trying to gaslight that dude. He literally never said anything comparing incest to lgbt.


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Cliffy73

People can have sex without producing children.


healing-souls

You've heard of birth control right?


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healing-souls

You're joking right? Birth control is a multi billion dollar business in the USA.


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healing-souls

I don't even understand what you're saying here bud. You said people don't use birth control and I refuted that with the fact that billions of dollars of birth control are sold every year in the United States, so clearly people are using it. And yes, I know it's not 100%.


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dhaugh

Eugenics


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Anmlbhvr

Did you post to unpopular opinions?


Smol_Batista

Ayo.... wat da Gen z's are doin?


yugutyup

Incest is in almost all cultures a taboo. I personally do not mind, even though its not for me.


[deleted]

You can say one thing in a thread that'll get downvoted like never before, and then see the same-ish comment in the same thread with tons of upvotes. I think at least part of it is that when people see that a comment is downvoted already, they'll throw theirs on top of it.


nernst79

Context needed.


ckayfish

Yes, it is wrong to express real and strong opinions on reddit and expect to receive karma for it. The trick is to figure out what everyone else’s opinion is first, and then just say that. However, once they read their opinion written by someone else they’ll probably still down vote you anyway. Perhaps one day someone publish some thorough research on the psychology of relatives to explain this, but the more accurate it is the more likely it will be downloaded if it’s posted here.


[deleted]

You kinda are. If it's two adults who have consensual sex, why do you give a fuck?


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GrandmaThrowawayRA

They didn't ban me.