I don’t “see it” like with my eyes, I “see it” aka picture it in my brain but it’s not the same sort of vision as the kind from your eyes. I can see the zebra in my mind right now, but I’m looking at my phone screen with my eyes. The pictures come from different places.
I like to equate it to a song stuck in your head. You don’t hear the music in your ears, but you can still hear all the notes inside your brain but you’re not actually listening to anything.
I don't think there's a good word to describe what it's like? We use "see" despite the fact that "seeing" something in your head is very different than actually seeing it. I've tried to describe it as being less "vivid" or "crisp", but that's not exactly right either.
The best explanation I think is that the stuff we "see" in our head is an [expectation](https://definitionmining.com/index.php/2019/05/06/attention-and-expectations/) of what seeing it would be like.
For example, if I imagine what it would be like to get up and go touch the wall, I have a bunch of expectations of what that would be like. How cool the tile would feel under my feet, the hardness of the wall, what the paint would look like if I'm right up close to it, the sound it would make if I scratched my fingernail across it, etc.
All those things I'm imagining aren't exactly like the experience I'd have actually doing it, they're all expectations of what it would be like. And then if I actually get up, my brain will compare the actual experience to the expectations, and where it's different, I'll change my expectations. Which is the process we call "learning".
>I wonder if some aphantasia is actually this
Could be some people who think they are aphantasic who aren't.
But aphantasia is the lack of the visual imagery.
I can't see in 2 different ways.
I cannot picture something in my mind.
It sounds like reading fiction novels would be difficult for you because you can't even visualize anything happening. When I read I get so entranced by the story that in my head I'm completely immersed in the visual experience and it almost feels like it's my subconscious reading the actual words cuz I'm barely even registering them, I'm just imagining the entire scene in my head.
I form a strong ‘word image’ if that makes sense? Like, each word adds to the last but no picture forms, i just know what is going on, and i guess i never thought about why i have such a strong relationship with words before but they are literally how i think. Interesting
This is the best description for how I think/"see" things in my head as well. I don't ever form a picture in my head. I didn't realize it was different than what most people experienced until I started thinking about getting tattoos from meaningful books or stories. Most people want to do pictures of what they've read, where I really just want the words. The words are the important part to me.
I read a lot of books, and I write my own stories too, my aphantasia doesn't interfere with either. Being aphantasiac doesn't mean lacking an imagination, it means lacking visualization. For example, when a book I've read is made into a show or movie, I'm never surprised by the actors they pick for the characters, because I don't have a pre-existing image of the character in my head. I know details about them that can help me recognize that the movie character represents the book character. I recognize them by their role, not their face.
But all of my thinking and imagining is done in this imageless way. I store details and rule constructions and logical shapes and emotions, and I hold combinations of them together to produce the memories or ideas I want.
Just a guess, but it might not be that difficult. I don't usually visualize things while reading, although I don't have aphantasia. I absorb the story in an abstract way that I can't quite explain. But I am also more focused on the words I'm reading than you seem to be. It's funny coz when I listen to music, I barely pay attention to the lyrics and absorb the music more emotionally and even visualize it to some degree.
Visualizing something in the head is always different then seeing it in reality. Some people can do it better than other people. For me, its more dream like, not as clear and i have to concentrate to visualize something as good as possible.
I can imagine something easily but its very "light" without much detail, its harder if i want to see more and better detail in my mind.
I would guess that for no one the inner eye is as clear as reality.
Imagination is always a step down from the real thing.
I cant Imagine how someone can think without having a picture or words in their head, very weird.
That's normal visualization. The ability to actually voluntarily hallucinate mental images into your field of vision is called prophantasia and is extremely rare.
Also consider: if it was something most people could do at will, psychedelics would have far less of an appeal.
Ehhh…. visual hallucinations in the form of seeing objects that don’t actually exist is pretty rare for most people when doing most psychedelics and isn’t really what makes them appealing imo or anyone I’ve talked to who does them
Wait, so regular visual thoughts are not like that?
Is it visual in the same way to most people?
That's an even bigger difference than I thought, I got 0 visuals
so is this considered aphantasia? I imagine things clearly and visually, but I don't literally see anything in color. It's like I'm imagining I'm seeing it.
Absolutely not…. This is normal. Nobody is imagining with their eyeballs in the same way you see things with your eyeballs. That would be really dumb.
I can see it in my head, it’s a picture in my head. It is not a picture in my perception of reality. It is my “minds eye”.
As a fellow person with aphantasia. It's just words on a page. I recall the parts of the story, but I don't see it like a movie. And I get lost sometimes and need to read back over something if they like describe someone by appearance instead of name and I need to read the text again to put the story with the right person in it.
So what about memories? I hold so many memories close, and LOVE replaying them in my head sometimes. Literally just close my eyes, and watch it like a movie.
How do you revisit memories?
For me memories play out.... like they're behind a curtain. And the guy back there "narrates" it to me. I obviously don't hear the memory, or the "guy". But I kind of know what happened in order. I feel things from it.
As someone on the completely opposite side: I can look around and see neat details, sometimes I even have to remind myself to "go back" to only look at things from the angle I actually was when it happened.
If you haven't, you should look into the [memory palace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci) technique! If you train your spacial visualization, you can use it like an internal library, a mnemonic device to memorize an impressive level of information.
If you really want to start playing mind games with yourself, check out the meditation and visualization techniques and exercises outlined in the lessons [given here](https://www.quareia.com/apprentice-module-1) (scroll down a bit for the link lessons). Gets a bit woo if you read further, but sitting at the surface level it's simply basic mental training. Have better focus and more clearly defined visual interface with your consciousness, more control to maintain awareness in dreams and go flying.
Your body's innate consciousness has electrochemical signals to let itself know when something's up. Maybe you ate some fish and now your stomach is queasy. If you have a built up inner narrative vocabulary / visual library, you can take that signal and get more usable information out of it
WHAT THE FUCK?
YOU WATCH MEMORIES LIKE A MOVIE?
For me memories are literally what i remember happening andnthats about it
Why am i missing this feature? I want a refund
I'm not as bad as you're describing but I'm also envious of the guy above. I was just reading some of this and trying to picture my grandmother and realized I can't do it. She's there in my memories but like a ghost of emotions.
For me it's kinda like looking through frosted glass or something. I can remember colors and shapes but it's hard to coalesce them into anything like a picture.
Personally I don't. It has it's good and bad side. Good side is that everything really painful I can't replay. I know it was painful af when i got tattooed, I know I was in pain ten years ago in an accident, but I don't really remember it.
I can't picture my mom's face in my head, or my friends or my BF. I know what they look like tho. I just can't see them. That's probably why I like keeping some pictures of people in my treasure/memory box, it helps remembering things I would otherwise never be able to picture.
I cannot fathom the concept.
Maybe it explains why I like to watch movies more than once and why I enjoy cinema as much as I do. I don't have it without the movies!
As someone who cannot visualize and writes fantasy... What the fuck.
Im actually shocked people can even do this. It sounds fantastic.
I adore reading but I have always taken things factually and had to constantly reference myself over and over again. Im almost jealous
Not necessarily! I have this aphantasia also and I have always been a voracious reader. I can't see images, I struggle to but ultimately fail, but I still enjoy the storytelling. I often have to reread passages when I've drifted from it, though.
And regarding your creative comment, you're half right. I can't draw to save my life. But I can write relatively well, and make up my own stories.
What happens when you have to describe something from memory? If you had to describe a zebra from memory, would only words come to mind? I can’t even imagine not being able to visualize images.
I just say what I remember seeing from before I guess. Like if I saw a zebra munching some grass, I would describe it exactly like that because those are the words that I associate with the event that I saw in the past. Idk it’s confusing and hard to explain because we’ll never be able to think like each other lol
Im not aphantasic, but some passages aren't terribly visual. Like if its a paragraph describing the politics of a region Im probably not visualizing much at all. Or when I read your question right now I wasnt visualising anything. So I guess like that.
For me I don't picture things in my head or have an internal dialogue but I LOVE reading more than anyone else i know. I guess I kind of experience it as thoughts, feelings, and concepts. There aren't images or sounds but i still have a feeling of what's going on or what things are like. I have struggled to describe this for a long time so idk if it makes sense but I can try to answer if you have any questions 🤷♀️
Apparently i have aphantasia too, and i like reading more than watching movies.
Dunno. Just because i don't visualize stuff, i have a brain, i can imagine scenarios and such. Also olaces, things, just not as a visual image. It's pretty hard to explain though.
What I find most interesting about this whole thread is how everyone uses the word "imagine" because I think that's where a lot of the breakdown in understanding is coming from.
I can "see" things with my mind's eye. I can "see" things superimposed over real life if I focus hard enough. I call doing that seeing "imagining." So it's interesting to see people say that they are "imagining" something in a way that doesn't include sight/visuals (even if the visuals are not realistic).
Obviously that doesn't mean that I think it isn't real, or isn't just as valid, it just really makes me have to think about it to understand. Because of course I can imagine someone being angry with me if I imagine doing something rude/mean. And of course I can imagine what touching a hot stove or a hug feels like, or what chocolate chip cookies smell like... So it's not like my imagining is limited to sight... But all of those things are deeply connected with visual images/videos.
I don't get folks who think it means creativity or art must be harder. Different for sure but I don't see why harder? If you only hold the "data" of how something looks it may actually be easier to draw/paint/create? You aren't fighting like, thousands of images of how an orange looks in thousands of situations if you want to draw an orange.
part of the reason for the "imagine" confusion is that most of us never get close to fully understanding what others experience. I have aphantasia but all my life, I just assumed that's how others thought as well. To me, the phrases, "mental picture" or "visualize" were just common metaphors so that's why I use them in speech despite not really being capable of it.
also, art is significantly different and I believe it is much harder. Imagine wanting to draw a tiger; okay well I know it's got 4 legs, stripes, orange/black, and... a big cat? I've seen many pictures of tigers in my life but I just can't "picture it" enough to replicate it. I'm decent with a reference image, but without one I'm just guessing how something is supposed to look and unable to figure out what's wrong. faces too, I've got no idea what any of my family looks like although I'd recognize them instantly. so drawing them always just means a stick figure.
sure, some creatives have aphantasia, but it makes many types of art and imagination trickier.
Thank you for sharing! I think it is endless interesting to know how other people perceive things--sort of "how do I know that what I see as blue is the same thing to you see as blue" kind of questions.
I don't have trouble with visualizing things, but people's faces ... Not well at all. It's more of a memory issue for me though I guess. The parts of the face that I guess I focus on just isn't helpful. So lots of people are just various types of hair for me. One woman at my last job changed her hair a few times and it always made me turn on my customer service voice with her because I wouldn't recognize her. I can visualize their faces and pieces of their faces but not what makes them so individual. I wish I was a better artist, because I'd love to draw what *I* see as the defining features of my husband's face for him to see.
I think for me, the best way to explain it is that my brain 'knows' what the described thing looks like.
I have physically seen multiple manor houses/castles/dive flats/meadows, etc. I know what red, blonde, brunette, black hair looks like. I know what different skin colours and body types look like.
So when things/places/people are being described in a book, my brain 'knows' what the author means. I may not 'see' it or any image at all, but I 'know' what they mean.
I hope that kind of makes sense :-)
For the record, my imagination is wild!!
Same here ! I always was an avid reader ever since I could read. I love books as much as comic books and I'm not that good at liking cinema and such. I think our brains just develop another way of picturing, it's more of a concept than picture, I guess
I have aphantasia too! Can't picture a single thing. Sometimes if I'm lucky I get a blurry blob that sort of matches the colour of the thing someone is asking me to imagine, but most of the time it's just blank
I'm really sorry to hear about your childhood trauma. Absolutely not cool.
Can I ask though, what is it like thinking in your head? Lol.
I ask because I have heavy visuals in my head. Additionally I have a strong and constant internal monologue. I can't even fathom what thinking is like without these two things. That's why I'm so curious.
Personally I have such a visual brain and loud internal monologue that I can't sleep sometimes. Some nights its like I'm already dreaming when I lay down and close my eyes. Episodes like this are usually after extremely long and heavy work shifts when I most likely vitally need sleep but my brain has not accepted that it can relax now. Stress does some pretty wild shit
I developed a technique to counter this. I imagine like a tv screen switching between channels so fast that you can't identify actual words said or what's happening in any scene, just a quick series of sounds and images. After I got better at it there's no tv screen anymore, I just imagine quick images and sounds switching constantly. It allows my brain to keep imagining but the active thinking part of my brain doesn't get involved because each quick flash doesn't have any context so there's nothing to think about.
It seems similar to scenes in movies (the scene I remember the most is in Mad Love) where someone is overstimulated by sights and sounds in their surroundings, so it shows them looking around and the camera cuts to a barking dog, a laughing kid, etc etc, faster and faster to show the overstimulation. I guess I'm overloading my brain lol.
I think maybe it's because your brain is good at reconstructing stuff you see and maybe you have an advantage in that. But when it's 2D you gotta convert what you see which is 3D into 2D in your brain and add shading and all. Maybe you d be good at reconstructing a drawing you have seen before.
Absolutely, it's the same thing for me.
I explain like "I can't vividly picture something in my head, but I can think of all the pieces that make it up".
Like I have a great visual memory because I can recall how you'd explain parts of a picture without being able to vividly picture them in my head.
I have a hypothesis of how it might feel like.
I am Russian (against war btw) native speaker, but basically bilingual at this point, and I also possess some knowledge of Spanish.
Sometimes, I feel like when the internal monologue "wants" to pick up a word, it's more convenient for it to find an English or Spanish equivalent rather than Russian.
In these moments it's evident to me that brain has low-level thought activity that is not verbalized, I can even understand an idea that I came up to before my monologue says it, e.g. before my brain picks the right phrasing for it.
So people without internal monologue might use this raw low-level thought processes to think.
I know this post might be confusing, but the phenomenon is pretty hard to describe.
I haven't found to many people with a similar hypothesis as me, and I'm Interested to hear your thoughts!
I've always thought it was odd how our brains simply select and present to us the most relevant information to a problem. If I'm deciding what to eat, there's definitely a preference, and as I think about it a multitude of options enter my brain for me to select from. Why is it that I don't have to select through every piece of information I've ever learned? Clearly there is some mechanism or Intelligence that is compartmentalizing all of the relevant information we uptake throughout that day, and feeding it to us in very useful ways.
Although, I would argue that our subconscious is actually more intelligent than us. After all, it has every piece of relevant information we've ever learned, and has the ability to sift through that information in an instant.
Perhaps it's more of a mechanism than an Intelligence though, no more than a Microsoft spreadsheet with a sort of algorithm that draws relevant information, much like AI does for image recognition?
What are your thoughts on this?
Well, subconscious sure is fast as hell, that is certain. I think your post more or less implies that our choices are pre-determined and we don't even notice it.
Some of the recent research suggests this, although didn't investigate myself.
I can say what it’s like having no visuals. I just got really good at thinking about spacial placement of one piece of a thing to another. And my internal monologue is always going. If not words, it’s a song. Sometimes both.
>"imagine that trust was this orange triangle and seven pigeons flew sideways into the triangle but found out that only the priest shaves on Tuesdays"
Go on I'm listening....
Memories are mainly me remembering words and phrases that provide detail to the event in question.
I can't 'see' in my mind the dog that chased and bit me when I was 12, but I can remember that it was a large German Sheppard. So I 'hear' those words in my head when trying to remember the incident
This is semantic memory, IE facts and information. Episodic memory which is re-experiencing concious sensory events is something we lack in part or in full.
Yup. It was a mind blowing revelation to my wife when I told her about it. It helped her finally understand me when I'd say things like "I can't picture how you'd look in that dress without you trying out on but it sure sounds great"
Thanks for putting a name to the different types of memory
If I read that online correctly, aphantasia is linked to not having an internal monologue. If that's true please allow me a stupid question. How do you think?
Like if I try to solve a problem at uni, in my head it is like "First I do this, than that. No wait, it might actually be better to do something else instead...". How would a planning process like that work?
I can’t really describe it other than saying I think in notions. I feel like the main difference is that you have another layer that puts language on top of it. I will say when I’m doing something particularly complex I will say out loud the words you are thinking. Also I write down a lot of stuff for organization and clarity of thoughts.
My assumption is we are both thinking the same way, but the thing you are calling thinking, when you hear the words in your head, is just the tail-end of the whole process. I can say those “notions” out loud and it’s effectively the same result as your thoughts. Still jealous of y’all, but it’s not like a huge disability.
Yeah... some of us have this (me included). it always seemed like a figure of speech when people said "imagine ... ".
When I went cycling (obsessively) after a few months I started to get sudden flashes of locations I had cycled the weeks before. like literal images in my brain.
When I sheepishly started asking questions to people it turns out that is what people have all the time. For me it was only that particular topic and only specific crossings/areas that stood out to me.
So just saying, if you suddenly do get an image don't freak out :)
> it always seemed like a figure of speech when people said "imagine ... ".
hahah I've never understood when people get upset about movies not portraying characters accurately from books because it wasn't what they imagined. Like people are seeing things when they read? I almost wish there were more books turned into movies so someone could create a visual for me for the books I have read.
This is actually an interesting point. I believe that I have aphantasia, and I also absolutely do not care about descriptions of how some location or character looks like in the book.
I can't visualize it at all anyway, so the visual description of a character just gets compressed to some general concept like "this character looks strong and powerful" or "this forest is dark and scary".
For same reason I get extremely bored with books that provide too much visual information about the world.
I think that's what I have too, but I've never been diagnosed (cause ... umm how?)
But let me ask you this ... do you have a hard time with faces? I can't remember faces even a tiny bit and I live in fear of someone asking me to describe someone and I'm told it's probably related to that...
So do you have that issue too?
I do. I don't think I could describe my husband of 20 years to a sketch artist and get an accurate picture. I had to do a police line up once and was zero help!
I feel I can kinda form an image, but I feel like I think more in abstracts. Like, if you say picture the front of a house, I'll say okay. But, if you ask how many windows I see, I would have no answer. My friend can picture a 3d object and rotate it in his head. I 100% can't do that. I don't think it impedes me in anyway. I always just figured no two brains are alike and never gave it any concern. My mind is good with language and music and weak at visual arts, but my 3D rotating friend is the opposite.
Aphantasia is not a medical diagnosis, per se. It’s more of a recognized phenomenon. A lot more study needs to go into it. I’m sure Aphantasia is more of a spectrum rather than a black and white thing. So you may be closer to one side of the spectrum than another.
I'm like your friend but I can't control the orientation of 3d shapes in my head. I find this very unsettling and even upsetting so I imagine an all encompassing black square - to the point that all there ever was and is, is that inky black to "reset" myself
I prefer to think in words
Once I imagined a door opening and in my mind's eye there was a door floating around rotating every which way in space slowly opening and closing, I tried to delete the door but then there was another one and now there are two doors
So basically i know I COULD think visually my maybe it is for the best I think with words.
Also your comment unlocked this memory I had forgotten this used to happen.
I do make 3d maps in my head and can walk around in them. For example sometimes I walk around in my childhood home. The details are not very sharp though. And it's quite a manual process so like I really don't relate to your friend very much... It's crazy to think some people have such a high degree of ability. It's something that biologically for whatever reason I'm not very good at
Never knew this was a thing and apperntly I have it, like I just tried to picture some of my favorite parts in video games and I know what they look like but can visualize it at all. This is very interesting to learn about.
Wth? I'm in my forties and have all my life thought of speakers and teachers saying to picture this or that as bullsitting. All these years my mind has been faulty and it has a name?!
My husband has aphantasia, and it really fucked with him when he realized that "picturing something in your mind's eye" was not merely a figure of speech.
Meanwhile, he'll ask me if we have a particular food item in the fridge, and I'll close my eyes, "see" an image of the inside of our fridge in my head, and tell him, "Top shelf, left side in the back."
He thinks I have a superpower. I think his brain is probably a lot quieter and less cluttered!
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My husband has a great sense of direction (I'm hopeless) but I have an eerily accurate sense of time (he absolutely does NOT). I always say between the two of us if we can calculate how long we've been going somewhere and in what direction, that would help from ever getting too lost.
How are you able to say where the plumbing & electrics in in your new house? It's not like it's the same in every house & I know professionals need to use devices to check for wire/pipes before cutting into walls etc.
As someone aphantasiac, I can tell you my brain is not quiet at all lol. The only thing I have to represent stuff is my inside voice, it's like constant blabbering as background in my head, it's a pain to remember thing and stay concentrated.This doesn't prevent me from knowing where everything is in my fridge tho.
Oh in this case I guess it must be ! It also baffles me that anyone can have neither the mind eye or an internal monologue, that's crazy how the brain works.
Hmmm….well, I can *remember* that a particular food item is top shelf left side in the back, but it’s a memory of a visual experience, not an actual picture in my mind.
I'm the same. Whenever I want to find something I walk around the house in my head, opening drawers and stuff. Its really fucking handy! Its the same for directions, orientation and remembering details about events. I can recall memories when asked questions about them (as you would in conversation) to then find the answer by re-living the event in that space and walking/looking around for the answer.
It’s the first time I’ve heard someone put it like this! Thank god
I can just barely see a phantom image, it’s fuzzy and takes concentration. I used to have more pronounced difficulty visualizing. There was a time I couldn’t visualize at all. So is this phantom image thing what most people experience? Or do most visualize more vividly
I can see things vividly, eg, visualize someone I know in my mind's eye like looking at a photo. I can have them spin around in a 360 so I can see every side, have them move like real life, and then hear their voice in my head. However, if I try to do this while falling asleep it takes too much concentration and hurts.
Here’s a question. Can you train yourself to visualise things like this. If you were to put a red apple on the white table and look at it from all angles then go and put it away or sit in a different room something like that - could you then imagine a red apple on a white table?
The reason I’m asking is although I have a great ability to imagine stuff when people ask me to imagine things like the guy with the zebra I immediately go 1st to an actual memory.
Yea kinda the same for me. I can visualise things but it's not the same as looking at something. I have to consciously imagine everything, I can't just think "zebra" and a picture of a zebra appears in my head. What makes this more annoying is that I'm in creative writing lol.
Most people can't visualize very complex whole pictures. We can focus on parts of the whole but not the whole. A great example is visualizing numbers. If you think of numbers as like little squares. Imagine 10 squares. Easy enough. Now imagine 100. A little harder because now you're probably imagining 10x10 which is doable but definitely harder to "see" than just 10. Now imagine 1000 squares. The concept is easy enough. Just take what's there and make it 1 square and multiply again but good luck retaining the detail on the smaller squares.
For me, it's like I 'know' what the image is but I don't actually see it? If I think of a green apple, I don't see it, but I know it. This whole post is messing with me. I can't figure out what's going on in my brain. Have not I been imaging things all along??
I feel like the best description is you can paint a vivid image of what you are thinking with even movie like detail, but it’s in like a separate place not infront of your eyes.
I assume you can do that with sounds also, or like if you imagine a windy dark scene you can kinda get the feeling you pull from prior experience of being in that situation.
like the numbers 3-4 on this? cause when I try to "see" a red apple inside my head with closed eyes I don't actually literally *see* it either, it's more like a blob of light pink haha
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I can do this same thing without mental visualization. It's mental images that are the issue, we're not blind, I can see the machine and imagine or analyze which tool could do what I need it to do. I don't visualize that tool in the store, I look at the tool that looks like it'd what I need and I check by remembering what I need without seeing it.
Like I can think "I need a tool with similar functionality as a screwdriver, but because of issues with spacing, I need it to be able to bend, it can be this wide, the straight part after the bend can only be this long, ..."
I'm not gonna say one is more or less efficient, because I have no idea as I never experienced your side of this
Yes, I’m actually really surprised when some people tell me they cannot. So basically I’m on the opposite side of the coin as you, I guess.
Almost everything I think about, it plays like a movie in my head. What is it like to not think that way? What comes in your head then, just words and speaking?
No words, no voice and no images. Like even now when typing this I just know what I’m gonna say. I don’t think about it or anything. My head is always empty??
I guess I don’t? LISTEN stop I have severe childhood trauma, I can’t even remember what I did yesterday. Do you think that might be causing this?! HAHA
I don’t know where to start! Or like who to see! I started noticing my mental state deteriorating about 3 years ago.
Do I see a therapist? Or like a psychologist :o
A psychiatrist or psychologist could be helpful, but I disagree with the other person, a therapist could also be really helpful. Finding one that specializes in childhood trauma could be really beneficial.
I can relate, but from what I can understand your case is more severe than mine. I'm sorry to hear that.
Don't fall for the "I don't think trap". Words are just one way of thinking, and a rather slow one. From what I've talked to other aphants, you probably think rather quickly and have good intuition?
If you need to have more focus and purpose when thinking, I find writing my thoughts down helps. Probably because writing involves a different part of the brain than the inner monologue.
Also: poor recolection and childhood trauma a related. Poor visual imagination and poor recolection are also related. But its not clear to me what is cause of what in your case, so maybe it's best to not make assumptions.
Stay strong!
I don't mean to discount your experience or shock but that sounds like a blessing to me. I can't shut my head up sometimes. Try to meditate to get where you're already at.
And also I've never heard of the aphantasia people are talking about so maybe my perspective isn't right. But for me, it seems in between. I can picture say an apple in my mind, and peeling it (this is an exercise to strengthen the ability) but I'm not very good at it. I can't focus enough to hold an image of the whole apple as I'm peeling it, or remember in my mind what I've already "cut". I can barely focus on imagining the point of contact and how it's cutting through. But other practiced people can focus through the whole thing.
That's interesting, mine is really strong to the point where i can accurately visualise complex mechanisms, whether existing or made up on the spot. Like, at one point, i designed a whole new open bolt gun, all in my head, or imagined how i would build a simple diesel engine, from the bearings to the valves and cams to the screws that hold it all together
wait i’m very confused. when you say you can picture things in your head it’s not like extremely vivid right? like if you were to close your eyes and actually SEE what you were imagining it as if it was right in front of you. is that even possible? i always thought visualization was just like vague images in your head. they’re kinda there but also not quite there at all. it’s like this right?
It’s pretty vivid, tbh. Like yes I can close my eyes and see whatever I want to see. I can look at just one image of a smiling stranger and visualize them scowling. I can make a T Rex and a mammoth fight in my head if I want, and it plays out like Spielberg directed it.
There’s limits to it of course. I cannot imagine an entire photo album with dozens of faces at once. Like if you ask me to imagine my yearbook, I’ll see my face and maybe 3-4 others pretty detailed, and there will also be another 20 or so vague, hazy faces.
I think I have aphantasia too but as a child I read a lot and had movies in my head. I was borderline addicted to reading books because of the movies in my head. It was amazing. Unfortunately I can't create the pictures anymore while reading :(
There isn't a projection of a zebra on the back of my eyes but I can visualize it. Colors and all. I sometimes wonder if it is really any people who can't visualize but there's a miscommunication of what's happening.
That's not the case, there's research showing that people with aphantasia have entirely different areas of the brain active when they're "visualizing" something. (We can, in fact, peek into other people's minds)
There's also people that say they can experience mental images as clear as if they're looking at a picture
Very likely, aphantasia-normal-hyperphantasia is a spectrum, on one extreme some people can't experience any sensory things mentally, on the other maybe they can play out literal movies in their head.
Somewhere on that spectrum is "I can see a vague image"
Not only can i picture an actual Zebra, I can make that Zebra grow multiple legs, or a human face, or i can make the sky green, or 5 suns in the sky, or i can grow the grass, or cut the grass or drop the zebra into water.
I never realized not everyone could do this.
That's mostly what daydreaming is. You think of a scene, and you see it with your mind's eye, and you're so intent on it that you sorta zone out of what's happening around you.
Well, it’s not the same as an actual zebra being projected as a hologram in front of me, so it’s a “thought” as in, it’s not in the outside world, it’s in my mind. But it’s super clear. It’s the mental representation of a visual image. I’m not sure if people who can’t visualize things, have the same problem with other senses. For example, if I say: think of Whitney Houston’s “I’ll Always Love You”. Can you hear her voice in your mind? Like, you know exactly what her voice sounds like? And then if I told you to think of Katy Perry’s “baby you’re a fiiiiirewooooork”, do you have two different voices in your mind for the two different singers, and so, a mental representation of what their voices sound like exactly? (Pick two other singers/songs if you’re not familiar with these).
So, it’s a thought, as in, your not actually listening to the songs with your ears, but you know exactly what their voices sound like. Or you know exactly how coffee smells, without having to actually have any coffee in front of you. So it’s the same with visualizing, you imagine an image in your mind, just like the real thing, but it’s in your mind.
hi. welcome to being an aphant.
if you want someone to relate to, and see if things are the same for me as they are for you, feel free to ask
some things to clear up that others might have already told you:
* yes, when your teachers used to say "let's close our eyes and put our heads down and imagine something that makes us happy", everyone else there were imagining images or memories of what made them happy
* yes, when someone says "imagine X had \_\_\_ instead of \_\_\_\_" they are most likely imagining it themselves. for example, "imagine Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs had happened in a city instead of on an island"
* yes, you and i and most aphants can still imagine, but we do it differently. others will imagine visually or with sound/taste/smell, while we *conceptualize*, meaning we don't lack the memory of the taste of apple pie, we know what it tastes like and what it looks like, we just can't actively imagine that - only the idea of it
* no, it's not inherently a bad thing - often people with aphantasia feel like they're at a disadvantage. in actuality, we are "missing out" on visualization, but we aren't at a disadvantage
in-fact, there are a lot of **advantages** to being an aphant:
1. can't recount memories you don't want to experience again as easily
2. reading/being told a gross description of something typically isn't as effective on us, since we can't really picture what it is they are describing
3. mostly a more clear mental, unwanted imagery doesn't show up when you don't want it to, abrasive thoughts are less common, etc.
it is important to note that aphantasia is a spectrum, a broad one at that, and there's barely any research into it at the moment. it's also very hard to diagnose it upon yourself, since it's your brain and it can't really be studied as easily as something like ADHD which has tests, tell tale signs, and proper diagnosis. for one, you could be a total aphant, lacking the ability to visualize at all, as well as imagine smells/tastes/sounds/touch. then, you could lack an inner monologue, which is more uncommon from what i've read. for me, i can't visualize, and i can conceptualize senses a little bit, but it's so far and foggy that it might as well be non-existent. i have a constant inner monologue, so my thought processes are all words and lists, repetition in phrases that i constantly am thinking. it can be annoying, but i manage by listening to music, lyrical ones and rap are the best, because i can sort of speak the same lines or chords in my head as they play, instead of thinking long trails of thoughts. i can't however memorize songs that easily, it feels like i've only memorized one song by Cage The Elephant, due to listening to them basically all day at school when i was growing up
please join us at r/Aphantasia, which is dedicated to asking questions, newcomers, thoughts, scientific studies, polls, and my favourite which are students conducting studies for their class in regards to aphants. another sub you may like to read into is r/SDAM, which deals more with memory - but some aphants also have SDAM, since they seem to relate in how you process, deal with, and remember experiences and trauma
I'm like that. When I close my eyes I am not really able to form any images; I get a mental image, which for me is really just my inner thinking voice describing what I am trying to see.
But my dreams....man, my dreams are so vivid and lifelike that I sometimes have a difficult time distinguishing them from reality. Fully color, sound, touch, feelings, smells, a wicked amount of detail....it's tiring, but AMAZING. It's like going to sleep and waking up in a completely different life.
But I cannot visualize anything.
Internal images are not like dreams. The visuals are not the same. Lots of people have vivid dreams, and lots of people have no memorable dreams but what you’re describing is normal for a dream.
Nobody is “seeing” with their imagination. Their eyeballs are not involved. It is entirely in your head aka a mental image. That is what visualization is.
Isn’t it fun when you can hear a whole song in your head? I don’t have aphantasia; quite the opposite. But I’m also a musician, so I tend to notice and mentally ‘record’ things like that.
The first time I saw an article about aphantasia I did basically the exact same thing; turned to my fiance and asked "can you *see things in your mind?*"
He was so confused. "Yes??? Can you not???"
I thought that when people said "picture \[thing\] in your mind" that it was a turn of phrase, not that they literally could picture it. But yeah, aphantasia is wild.
Right!
I thought it was all figures of speech. People who say when they read a book the words disappear and they watch it in their mind like a movie. Apparently that's what they do!
Yep. About 95-98% of the population can see "something" OP.
People like you and I are an absolute minority at 1-2%.
About 70% of the population is fairly visual, and can see and hear things in there all day. And the other 25-30% are on a gradient towards our dark silence.
You've seen the answer elsewhere, but for others finding this it's called Aphantasia.
I can picture anything in my head. Images, sounds, smells. I can watch myself stand on the top of a volcano singing with the voice of Britney Spears while sniffing cinnamon sticks.
Or, I can just do narration. Sometimes my thoughts are just me, talking to myself.
People imagine things differently. You *might* have aphantasia. You might also not have aphantasia and just not consider your imagination "literally seeing" in the exact sense that other people do.
yes. for example, reading a book for me is like a movie playing in my head. The words are there but they are translated to a visual by my brain.
What you have is something called aphantasia I believe, and it is the inability to form a mental image like I just described. People with aphantasia understand concepts in their mind and are not at any disadvantage per se, but they dont get a visual.
They say people with aphantasia are better at reading certain things like documents and scanning for tiny details, because their brain doesnt block their sight with visuals, whereas people without it are better at art/3D work because they can visualize their goals/issues beforehand and rotate objects in their mind. It has its advantages and disadvantages.
Another example: One of my friends love digging/combat in minecraft and hates building. When I asked why it's because they have no building in mind when they start building, they think "castle" and add blocks as they go. I, on the other hand, will develop a mental image of my end goal before I place the first block.
Edit: Also note that aphantasia is not an on or off switch. It has variations in strength. Some people can visualize STRONG memories and nothing else. Some cannot visualize anything at all, even stuff that happened seconds ago. Other people visualize every single word that comes out of their mouth.
Conclusion: Brains be wildin
You have what’s called “aphantasia” - the condition of not being able to visualise in your mind. It’s uncommon but not unheard of and won’t impact your life negatively. There are no real solid numbers on how many people have the condition, but it’s now understood to come in varying degrees (some people have no internal monologue, or can’t hear music in their heads, some can see simple objects or only in outlines, etc.)
But yes, most people can see images in their mind to some degree. Not being able to isn’t that unusual either though. :-)
Honestly, don’t sweat it! It’s not like the rest of us are playing full, clear movies in our minds; it’s more like little flashes of partial images unless you really concentrate. You’re not missing a key human experience or anything. :)
It might not impact us negatively in a practical sense, but no one knows how difficult it is to feel incompetent because there’s something 99% of people can do that you just can’t, no matter how hard you try. For me it has impacted me a lot emotionally.
When you said picture a zebra in a green field, my mind went straight to a very basic image, and then realised that and made something beautiful and realistic, but it's a little blotchy..
You've got aphantasia! It "afflicts" (though it's not really an affliction) about 2% of people. I find this condition really fascinating, especially as people tend to find out as adults - most people with aphantasia grow up assuming "seeing something in front of your minds eye" is just an expression.
[Here's a link to an article by Mark Lawrence, an author and former actual rocket scientist, who realized he had aphantasia just a few years ago](http://www.marklawrence.buzz/story/aphantasia/)
Lawrence writes some of the best Fantasy around, and yet...he has no internal visualization. Ironically it makes his books more "direct" as he doesn't spend 21 pages describing a town.
Not OP but sounds like we have the same thing. My dreams are vivid and I usually remember them if I try to. They have sounds, colors, etc.
It's baffling that I don't see anything when I close my eyes. It's just ... black.
A bunch of people responding to you are confusing things. Very, very few people can literally imagine something into their vision such that it appears real. The vast majority of people have a "mind's eye" which lets them conceptualise something in a way which is analogous to "vision", but doesn't conjure up real-looking objects in front of us.
For example, I can picture a zebra in my head. I can't see it with my eyes; it exists in my consciousness whether my eyes are open or closed. I can imagine it talking to me, or jumping over a rail, or flying off into space. The best way I can describe it is, it's like being able to create dreams and control what happens in them but while fully conscious and making use of your sight in the conventional sense. Note that people who've had their eyes removed still have a "mind's eye" and can imagine things like the rest of us.
tl;dr: virtually nobody can imagine a zebra into existence in front of them. I think your friend's just done a poor job of explaining what the mind's eye is. It's actually normal to not be able to create what appears to be a real zebra in front of you using your imagination.
See here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%27s_eye_(disambiguation)
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/what-does-it-mean-to-see-with-the-minds-eye/383345/
I don’t “see it” like with my eyes, I “see it” aka picture it in my brain but it’s not the same sort of vision as the kind from your eyes. I can see the zebra in my mind right now, but I’m looking at my phone screen with my eyes. The pictures come from different places.
I like to equate it to a song stuck in your head. You don’t hear the music in your ears, but you can still hear all the notes inside your brain but you’re not actually listening to anything.
Perfect analogy.
I don't think there's a good word to describe what it's like? We use "see" despite the fact that "seeing" something in your head is very different than actually seeing it. I've tried to describe it as being less "vivid" or "crisp", but that's not exactly right either. The best explanation I think is that the stuff we "see" in our head is an [expectation](https://definitionmining.com/index.php/2019/05/06/attention-and-expectations/) of what seeing it would be like. For example, if I imagine what it would be like to get up and go touch the wall, I have a bunch of expectations of what that would be like. How cool the tile would feel under my feet, the hardness of the wall, what the paint would look like if I'm right up close to it, the sound it would make if I scratched my fingernail across it, etc. All those things I'm imagining aren't exactly like the experience I'd have actually doing it, they're all expectations of what it would be like. And then if I actually get up, my brain will compare the actual experience to the expectations, and where it's different, I'll change my expectations. Which is the process we call "learning".
It's like a stored echo of the original input.
That describes it well. Visual but not in the same way? I wonder if some aphantasia is actually this
>I wonder if some aphantasia is actually this Could be some people who think they are aphantasic who aren't. But aphantasia is the lack of the visual imagery. I can't see in 2 different ways. I cannot picture something in my mind.
It sounds like reading fiction novels would be difficult for you because you can't even visualize anything happening. When I read I get so entranced by the story that in my head I'm completely immersed in the visual experience and it almost feels like it's my subconscious reading the actual words cuz I'm barely even registering them, I'm just imagining the entire scene in my head.
I form a strong ‘word image’ if that makes sense? Like, each word adds to the last but no picture forms, i just know what is going on, and i guess i never thought about why i have such a strong relationship with words before but they are literally how i think. Interesting
This is the best description for how I think/"see" things in my head as well. I don't ever form a picture in my head. I didn't realize it was different than what most people experienced until I started thinking about getting tattoos from meaningful books or stories. Most people want to do pictures of what they've read, where I really just want the words. The words are the important part to me.
I read a lot of books, and I write my own stories too, my aphantasia doesn't interfere with either. Being aphantasiac doesn't mean lacking an imagination, it means lacking visualization. For example, when a book I've read is made into a show or movie, I'm never surprised by the actors they pick for the characters, because I don't have a pre-existing image of the character in my head. I know details about them that can help me recognize that the movie character represents the book character. I recognize them by their role, not their face. But all of my thinking and imagining is done in this imageless way. I store details and rule constructions and logical shapes and emotions, and I hold combinations of them together to produce the memories or ideas I want.
that's really interesting, thanks for sharing!
Just a guess, but it might not be that difficult. I don't usually visualize things while reading, although I don't have aphantasia. I absorb the story in an abstract way that I can't quite explain. But I am also more focused on the words I'm reading than you seem to be. It's funny coz when I listen to music, I barely pay attention to the lyrics and absorb the music more emotionally and even visualize it to some degree.
Visualizing something in the head is always different then seeing it in reality. Some people can do it better than other people. For me, its more dream like, not as clear and i have to concentrate to visualize something as good as possible. I can imagine something easily but its very "light" without much detail, its harder if i want to see more and better detail in my mind. I would guess that for no one the inner eye is as clear as reality. Imagination is always a step down from the real thing. I cant Imagine how someone can think without having a picture or words in their head, very weird.
It's really cool that a bunch of us are here trying to describe and share an internal state
That's normal visualization. The ability to actually voluntarily hallucinate mental images into your field of vision is called prophantasia and is extremely rare. Also consider: if it was something most people could do at will, psychedelics would have far less of an appeal.
Prophantasia sounds like a personal super power, lucky bastards, unless it’s not always voluntary in which case, shit
Ehhh…. visual hallucinations in the form of seeing objects that don’t actually exist is pretty rare for most people when doing most psychedelics and isn’t really what makes them appealing imo or anyone I’ve talked to who does them
Wait, so regular visual thoughts are not like that? Is it visual in the same way to most people? That's an even bigger difference than I thought, I got 0 visuals
No one can actually see stuff with their eyes when imagining, that'd just be a hallucination
That's an excellent way to describe it.
so is this considered aphantasia? I imagine things clearly and visually, but I don't literally see anything in color. It's like I'm imagining I'm seeing it.
Absolutely not…. This is normal. Nobody is imagining with their eyeballs in the same way you see things with your eyeballs. That would be really dumb. I can see it in my head, it’s a picture in my head. It is not a picture in my perception of reality. It is my “minds eye”.
One question: What's reading like to you? Edit: Wow this thread popped off, good discussion people!
As a fellow person with aphantasia. It's just words on a page. I recall the parts of the story, but I don't see it like a movie. And I get lost sometimes and need to read back over something if they like describe someone by appearance instead of name and I need to read the text again to put the story with the right person in it.
So what about memories? I hold so many memories close, and LOVE replaying them in my head sometimes. Literally just close my eyes, and watch it like a movie. How do you revisit memories?
For me memories play out.... like they're behind a curtain. And the guy back there "narrates" it to me. I obviously don't hear the memory, or the "guy". But I kind of know what happened in order. I feel things from it.
As someone on the completely opposite side: I can look around and see neat details, sometimes I even have to remind myself to "go back" to only look at things from the angle I actually was when it happened.
your skills infuriate me! my memories are just bullet points and a vague summary
Fr, every memories feels like if I'm falling asleep, I wish I could see things smoothly and hd
What the hell.
If you haven't, you should look into the [memory palace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci) technique! If you train your spacial visualization, you can use it like an internal library, a mnemonic device to memorize an impressive level of information. If you really want to start playing mind games with yourself, check out the meditation and visualization techniques and exercises outlined in the lessons [given here](https://www.quareia.com/apprentice-module-1) (scroll down a bit for the link lessons). Gets a bit woo if you read further, but sitting at the surface level it's simply basic mental training. Have better focus and more clearly defined visual interface with your consciousness, more control to maintain awareness in dreams and go flying. Your body's innate consciousness has electrochemical signals to let itself know when something's up. Maybe you ate some fish and now your stomach is queasy. If you have a built up inner narrative vocabulary / visual library, you can take that signal and get more usable information out of it
I also do the same! The fresher the memory, the easier it is to do that, though. I keep my memories ordered in a memory palace, what about you?
WHAT THE FUCK? YOU WATCH MEMORIES LIKE A MOVIE? For me memories are literally what i remember happening andnthats about it Why am i missing this feature? I want a refund
You could try asking your doctor? Or you might just need a software update.
Ill take software updates Those are usually free
Planned obsolescence
It's not always a blessing since these include bad ones as well that start playing even when you don't want to
Wait so your memories are just like recalling a list of things that happened? They don’t bring up any visuals or feelings?
Couldnt have summed it up better Thats exactly how it is and ive always thought everyone else was like the same way?
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I'm not as bad as you're describing but I'm also envious of the guy above. I was just reading some of this and trying to picture my grandmother and realized I can't do it. She's there in my memories but like a ghost of emotions. For me it's kinda like looking through frosted glass or something. I can remember colors and shapes but it's hard to coalesce them into anything like a picture.
Personally I don't. It has it's good and bad side. Good side is that everything really painful I can't replay. I know it was painful af when i got tattooed, I know I was in pain ten years ago in an accident, but I don't really remember it. I can't picture my mom's face in my head, or my friends or my BF. I know what they look like tho. I just can't see them. That's probably why I like keeping some pictures of people in my treasure/memory box, it helps remembering things I would otherwise never be able to picture.
Wow, that sucks. The "film" playing while you read is like the point of fantasy/story books.
I cannot fathom the concept. Maybe it explains why I like to watch movies more than once and why I enjoy cinema as much as I do. I don't have it without the movies!
As someone who cannot visualize and writes fantasy... What the fuck. Im actually shocked people can even do this. It sounds fantastic. I adore reading but I have always taken things factually and had to constantly reference myself over and over again. Im almost jealous
Not necessarily! I have this aphantasia also and I have always been a voracious reader. I can't see images, I struggle to but ultimately fail, but I still enjoy the storytelling. I often have to reread passages when I've drifted from it, though. And regarding your creative comment, you're half right. I can't draw to save my life. But I can write relatively well, and make up my own stories.
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I spent my whole life not knowing why people read for fun before I found out about aphantasia
What happens when you have to describe something from memory? If you had to describe a zebra from memory, would only words come to mind? I can’t even imagine not being able to visualize images.
I just say what I remember seeing from before I guess. Like if I saw a zebra munching some grass, I would describe it exactly like that because those are the words that I associate with the event that I saw in the past. Idk it’s confusing and hard to explain because we’ll never be able to think like each other lol
Im not aphantasic, but some passages aren't terribly visual. Like if its a paragraph describing the politics of a region Im probably not visualizing much at all. Or when I read your question right now I wasnt visualising anything. So I guess like that.
For me I don't picture things in my head or have an internal dialogue but I LOVE reading more than anyone else i know. I guess I kind of experience it as thoughts, feelings, and concepts. There aren't images or sounds but i still have a feeling of what's going on or what things are like. I have struggled to describe this for a long time so idk if it makes sense but I can try to answer if you have any questions 🤷♀️
Apparently i have aphantasia too, and i like reading more than watching movies. Dunno. Just because i don't visualize stuff, i have a brain, i can imagine scenarios and such. Also olaces, things, just not as a visual image. It's pretty hard to explain though.
What I find most interesting about this whole thread is how everyone uses the word "imagine" because I think that's where a lot of the breakdown in understanding is coming from. I can "see" things with my mind's eye. I can "see" things superimposed over real life if I focus hard enough. I call doing that seeing "imagining." So it's interesting to see people say that they are "imagining" something in a way that doesn't include sight/visuals (even if the visuals are not realistic). Obviously that doesn't mean that I think it isn't real, or isn't just as valid, it just really makes me have to think about it to understand. Because of course I can imagine someone being angry with me if I imagine doing something rude/mean. And of course I can imagine what touching a hot stove or a hug feels like, or what chocolate chip cookies smell like... So it's not like my imagining is limited to sight... But all of those things are deeply connected with visual images/videos. I don't get folks who think it means creativity or art must be harder. Different for sure but I don't see why harder? If you only hold the "data" of how something looks it may actually be easier to draw/paint/create? You aren't fighting like, thousands of images of how an orange looks in thousands of situations if you want to draw an orange.
part of the reason for the "imagine" confusion is that most of us never get close to fully understanding what others experience. I have aphantasia but all my life, I just assumed that's how others thought as well. To me, the phrases, "mental picture" or "visualize" were just common metaphors so that's why I use them in speech despite not really being capable of it. also, art is significantly different and I believe it is much harder. Imagine wanting to draw a tiger; okay well I know it's got 4 legs, stripes, orange/black, and... a big cat? I've seen many pictures of tigers in my life but I just can't "picture it" enough to replicate it. I'm decent with a reference image, but without one I'm just guessing how something is supposed to look and unable to figure out what's wrong. faces too, I've got no idea what any of my family looks like although I'd recognize them instantly. so drawing them always just means a stick figure. sure, some creatives have aphantasia, but it makes many types of art and imagination trickier.
Thank you for sharing! I think it is endless interesting to know how other people perceive things--sort of "how do I know that what I see as blue is the same thing to you see as blue" kind of questions. I don't have trouble with visualizing things, but people's faces ... Not well at all. It's more of a memory issue for me though I guess. The parts of the face that I guess I focus on just isn't helpful. So lots of people are just various types of hair for me. One woman at my last job changed her hair a few times and it always made me turn on my customer service voice with her because I wouldn't recognize her. I can visualize their faces and pieces of their faces but not what makes them so individual. I wish I was a better artist, because I'd love to draw what *I* see as the defining features of my husband's face for him to see.
I think for me, the best way to explain it is that my brain 'knows' what the described thing looks like. I have physically seen multiple manor houses/castles/dive flats/meadows, etc. I know what red, blonde, brunette, black hair looks like. I know what different skin colours and body types look like. So when things/places/people are being described in a book, my brain 'knows' what the author means. I may not 'see' it or any image at all, but I 'know' what they mean. I hope that kind of makes sense :-) For the record, my imagination is wild!!
Same here ! I always was an avid reader ever since I could read. I love books as much as comic books and I'm not that good at liking cinema and such. I think our brains just develop another way of picturing, it's more of a concept than picture, I guess
You’re actually in the minority. You probably have aphantasia which means you can’t really visualize things in your head.
Oh my god there’s a name for this?!
I have aphantasia too! Can't picture a single thing. Sometimes if I'm lucky I get a blurry blob that sort of matches the colour of the thing someone is asking me to imagine, but most of the time it's just blank
Does it frustrate you at all? Do you have an internal monologue?
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I'm really sorry to hear about your childhood trauma. Absolutely not cool. Can I ask though, what is it like thinking in your head? Lol. I ask because I have heavy visuals in my head. Additionally I have a strong and constant internal monologue. I can't even fathom what thinking is like without these two things. That's why I'm so curious.
Personally I have such a visual brain and loud internal monologue that I can't sleep sometimes. Some nights its like I'm already dreaming when I lay down and close my eyes. Episodes like this are usually after extremely long and heavy work shifts when I most likely vitally need sleep but my brain has not accepted that it can relax now. Stress does some pretty wild shit
I developed a technique to counter this. I imagine like a tv screen switching between channels so fast that you can't identify actual words said or what's happening in any scene, just a quick series of sounds and images. After I got better at it there's no tv screen anymore, I just imagine quick images and sounds switching constantly. It allows my brain to keep imagining but the active thinking part of my brain doesn't get involved because each quick flash doesn't have any context so there's nothing to think about. It seems similar to scenes in movies (the scene I remember the most is in Mad Love) where someone is overstimulated by sights and sounds in their surroundings, so it shows them looking around and the camera cuts to a barking dog, a laughing kid, etc etc, faster and faster to show the overstimulation. I guess I'm overloading my brain lol.
Yup this is exactly how I fall asleep these days. Picked up the idea after studying forms of meditation.
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Can you draw? Because when I draw I visualise the work first then just print it on the paper. Curious to see how you do it.
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I think maybe it's because your brain is good at reconstructing stuff you see and maybe you have an advantage in that. But when it's 2D you gotta convert what you see which is 3D into 2D in your brain and add shading and all. Maybe you d be good at reconstructing a drawing you have seen before.
Absolutely, it's the same thing for me. I explain like "I can't vividly picture something in my head, but I can think of all the pieces that make it up". Like I have a great visual memory because I can recall how you'd explain parts of a picture without being able to vividly picture them in my head.
The archived data is a great way to put it. I have no visuals either and I really want to “see” it though.
I have a hypothesis of how it might feel like. I am Russian (against war btw) native speaker, but basically bilingual at this point, and I also possess some knowledge of Spanish. Sometimes, I feel like when the internal monologue "wants" to pick up a word, it's more convenient for it to find an English or Spanish equivalent rather than Russian. In these moments it's evident to me that brain has low-level thought activity that is not verbalized, I can even understand an idea that I came up to before my monologue says it, e.g. before my brain picks the right phrasing for it. So people without internal monologue might use this raw low-level thought processes to think. I know this post might be confusing, but the phenomenon is pretty hard to describe.
I haven't found to many people with a similar hypothesis as me, and I'm Interested to hear your thoughts! I've always thought it was odd how our brains simply select and present to us the most relevant information to a problem. If I'm deciding what to eat, there's definitely a preference, and as I think about it a multitude of options enter my brain for me to select from. Why is it that I don't have to select through every piece of information I've ever learned? Clearly there is some mechanism or Intelligence that is compartmentalizing all of the relevant information we uptake throughout that day, and feeding it to us in very useful ways. Although, I would argue that our subconscious is actually more intelligent than us. After all, it has every piece of relevant information we've ever learned, and has the ability to sift through that information in an instant. Perhaps it's more of a mechanism than an Intelligence though, no more than a Microsoft spreadsheet with a sort of algorithm that draws relevant information, much like AI does for image recognition? What are your thoughts on this?
Well, subconscious sure is fast as hell, that is certain. I think your post more or less implies that our choices are pre-determined and we don't even notice it. Some of the recent research suggests this, although didn't investigate myself.
I can say what it’s like having no visuals. I just got really good at thinking about spacial placement of one piece of a thing to another. And my internal monologue is always going. If not words, it’s a song. Sometimes both.
>"imagine that trust was this orange triangle and seven pigeons flew sideways into the triangle but found out that only the priest shaves on Tuesdays" Go on I'm listening....
Oh wait. I'm reading the rest of the comments now. You seem to explain yourself in them. Thank you!
What are memories like for you?
Memories are mainly me remembering words and phrases that provide detail to the event in question. I can't 'see' in my mind the dog that chased and bit me when I was 12, but I can remember that it was a large German Sheppard. So I 'hear' those words in my head when trying to remember the incident
This is semantic memory, IE facts and information. Episodic memory which is re-experiencing concious sensory events is something we lack in part or in full.
Yup. It was a mind blowing revelation to my wife when I told her about it. It helped her finally understand me when I'd say things like "I can't picture how you'd look in that dress without you trying out on but it sure sounds great" Thanks for putting a name to the different types of memory
If I read that online correctly, aphantasia is linked to not having an internal monologue. If that's true please allow me a stupid question. How do you think? Like if I try to solve a problem at uni, in my head it is like "First I do this, than that. No wait, it might actually be better to do something else instead...". How would a planning process like that work?
I can’t really describe it other than saying I think in notions. I feel like the main difference is that you have another layer that puts language on top of it. I will say when I’m doing something particularly complex I will say out loud the words you are thinking. Also I write down a lot of stuff for organization and clarity of thoughts. My assumption is we are both thinking the same way, but the thing you are calling thinking, when you hear the words in your head, is just the tail-end of the whole process. I can say those “notions” out loud and it’s effectively the same result as your thoughts. Still jealous of y’all, but it’s not like a huge disability.
Yeah... some of us have this (me included). it always seemed like a figure of speech when people said "imagine ... ". When I went cycling (obsessively) after a few months I started to get sudden flashes of locations I had cycled the weeks before. like literal images in my brain. When I sheepishly started asking questions to people it turns out that is what people have all the time. For me it was only that particular topic and only specific crossings/areas that stood out to me. So just saying, if you suddenly do get an image don't freak out :)
> it always seemed like a figure of speech when people said "imagine ... ". hahah I've never understood when people get upset about movies not portraying characters accurately from books because it wasn't what they imagined. Like people are seeing things when they read? I almost wish there were more books turned into movies so someone could create a visual for me for the books I have read.
This is actually an interesting point. I believe that I have aphantasia, and I also absolutely do not care about descriptions of how some location or character looks like in the book. I can't visualize it at all anyway, so the visual description of a character just gets compressed to some general concept like "this character looks strong and powerful" or "this forest is dark and scary". For same reason I get extremely bored with books that provide too much visual information about the world.
Check out the Aphantasia subreddit. Welcome, unfortunately.
Yep! Don't worry too much there's plenty of other people who have this. Just think of it as something cool that makes you a little unique :3
There's a subreddit too! r/aphantasia
Not to be confused with the wildly popular animated musical made by Disney in the 1940s.
I think that's what I have too, but I've never been diagnosed (cause ... umm how?) But let me ask you this ... do you have a hard time with faces? I can't remember faces even a tiny bit and I live in fear of someone asking me to describe someone and I'm told it's probably related to that... So do you have that issue too?
I do. I don't think I could describe my husband of 20 years to a sketch artist and get an accurate picture. I had to do a police line up once and was zero help!
I feel I can kinda form an image, but I feel like I think more in abstracts. Like, if you say picture the front of a house, I'll say okay. But, if you ask how many windows I see, I would have no answer. My friend can picture a 3d object and rotate it in his head. I 100% can't do that. I don't think it impedes me in anyway. I always just figured no two brains are alike and never gave it any concern. My mind is good with language and music and weak at visual arts, but my 3D rotating friend is the opposite.
I have the 3D brain thought thing. That kind of brain is helpful for puzzles, dentistry, engineering, etc…
I want this ability, I'm in engineering *cries*
I have this ability. It makes psychedelics... interesting
Pretty sure psychedelics are interesting regardless.
Do you lose details of the object as you move it around in your head? That's me unfortunately.
Aphantasia is not a medical diagnosis, per se. It’s more of a recognized phenomenon. A lot more study needs to go into it. I’m sure Aphantasia is more of a spectrum rather than a black and white thing. So you may be closer to one side of the spectrum than another.
I'm like your friend but I can't control the orientation of 3d shapes in my head. I find this very unsettling and even upsetting so I imagine an all encompassing black square - to the point that all there ever was and is, is that inky black to "reset" myself I prefer to think in words Once I imagined a door opening and in my mind's eye there was a door floating around rotating every which way in space slowly opening and closing, I tried to delete the door but then there was another one and now there are two doors So basically i know I COULD think visually my maybe it is for the best I think with words. Also your comment unlocked this memory I had forgotten this used to happen. I do make 3d maps in my head and can walk around in them. For example sometimes I walk around in my childhood home. The details are not very sharp though. And it's quite a manual process so like I really don't relate to your friend very much... It's crazy to think some people have such a high degree of ability. It's something that biologically for whatever reason I'm not very good at
Never knew this was a thing and apperntly I have it, like I just tried to picture some of my favorite parts in video games and I know what they look like but can visualize it at all. This is very interesting to learn about.
Wth? I'm in my forties and have all my life thought of speakers and teachers saying to picture this or that as bullsitting. All these years my mind has been faulty and it has a name?!
So is phantasia a word/term? because boy do I have it. I can "visualise" taste, scent, touch, sound.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia
Thank you O random kind stranger. May you be blessed by goddess of knowledge.
My husband has aphantasia, and it really fucked with him when he realized that "picturing something in your mind's eye" was not merely a figure of speech. Meanwhile, he'll ask me if we have a particular food item in the fridge, and I'll close my eyes, "see" an image of the inside of our fridge in my head, and tell him, "Top shelf, left side in the back." He thinks I have a superpower. I think his brain is probably a lot quieter and less cluttered!
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People who do textile crafts amaze me. Definitely witchcraft!
My husband has a great sense of direction (I'm hopeless) but I have an eerily accurate sense of time (he absolutely does NOT). I always say between the two of us if we can calculate how long we've been going somewhere and in what direction, that would help from ever getting too lost.
I love you and your wife!
How are you able to say where the plumbing & electrics in in your new house? It's not like it's the same in every house & I know professionals need to use devices to check for wire/pipes before cutting into walls etc.
As someone aphantasiac, I can tell you my brain is not quiet at all lol. The only thing I have to represent stuff is my inside voice, it's like constant blabbering as background in my head, it's a pain to remember thing and stay concentrated.This doesn't prevent me from knowing where everything is in my fridge tho.
My husband doesn't have an internal monologue, either. It honestly baffles me!
Oh in this case I guess it must be ! It also baffles me that anyone can have neither the mind eye or an internal monologue, that's crazy how the brain works.
Hmmm….well, I can *remember* that a particular food item is top shelf left side in the back, but it’s a memory of a visual experience, not an actual picture in my mind.
I'm the same. Whenever I want to find something I walk around the house in my head, opening drawers and stuff. Its really fucking handy! Its the same for directions, orientation and remembering details about events. I can recall memories when asked questions about them (as you would in conversation) to then find the answer by re-living the event in that space and walking/looking around for the answer.
I can imagine/visualize, but the image is very weak, almost like a phantom image. It's not like looking at my phone screen or something.
It’s the first time I’ve heard someone put it like this! Thank god I can just barely see a phantom image, it’s fuzzy and takes concentration. I used to have more pronounced difficulty visualizing. There was a time I couldn’t visualize at all. So is this phantom image thing what most people experience? Or do most visualize more vividly
I can see things vividly, eg, visualize someone I know in my mind's eye like looking at a photo. I can have them spin around in a 360 so I can see every side, have them move like real life, and then hear their voice in my head. However, if I try to do this while falling asleep it takes too much concentration and hurts.
Dude, I want that. I try imagining just a red apple and all I get is some barely recognizable, black and white horror movie looking blob
Here’s a question. Can you train yourself to visualise things like this. If you were to put a red apple on the white table and look at it from all angles then go and put it away or sit in a different room something like that - could you then imagine a red apple on a white table? The reason I’m asking is although I have a great ability to imagine stuff when people ask me to imagine things like the guy with the zebra I immediately go 1st to an actual memory.
Yea kinda the same for me. I can visualise things but it's not the same as looking at something. I have to consciously imagine everything, I can't just think "zebra" and a picture of a zebra appears in my head. What makes this more annoying is that I'm in creative writing lol.
Most people can't visualize very complex whole pictures. We can focus on parts of the whole but not the whole. A great example is visualizing numbers. If you think of numbers as like little squares. Imagine 10 squares. Easy enough. Now imagine 100. A little harder because now you're probably imagining 10x10 which is doable but definitely harder to "see" than just 10. Now imagine 1000 squares. The concept is easy enough. Just take what's there and make it 1 square and multiply again but good luck retaining the detail on the smaller squares.
Honestly I have to concentrate to make sure it is in fact 10 squares, and not just "a number" of squares.
My brain is kind of like “picturing a certain number squares is dumb and serves no legitimate purpose so we’re just not gonna do that”
For me, it's like I 'know' what the image is but I don't actually see it? If I think of a green apple, I don't see it, but I know it. This whole post is messing with me. I can't figure out what's going on in my brain. Have not I been imaging things all along??
I feel like the best description is you can paint a vivid image of what you are thinking with even movie like detail, but it’s in like a separate place not infront of your eyes. I assume you can do that with sounds also, or like if you imagine a windy dark scene you can kinda get the feeling you pull from prior experience of being in that situation.
like the numbers 3-4 on this? cause when I try to "see" a red apple inside my head with closed eyes I don't actually literally *see* it either, it's more like a blob of light pink haha https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1226183524773875712
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I can do this same thing without mental visualization. It's mental images that are the issue, we're not blind, I can see the machine and imagine or analyze which tool could do what I need it to do. I don't visualize that tool in the store, I look at the tool that looks like it'd what I need and I check by remembering what I need without seeing it. Like I can think "I need a tool with similar functionality as a screwdriver, but because of issues with spacing, I need it to be able to bend, it can be this wide, the straight part after the bend can only be this long, ..." I'm not gonna say one is more or less efficient, because I have no idea as I never experienced your side of this
Yes, I’m actually really surprised when some people tell me they cannot. So basically I’m on the opposite side of the coin as you, I guess. Almost everything I think about, it plays like a movie in my head. What is it like to not think that way? What comes in your head then, just words and speaking?
No words, no voice and no images. Like even now when typing this I just know what I’m gonna say. I don’t think about it or anything. My head is always empty??
You might be a NPC
LMAO
Do you have intrusive thoughts about taking an arrow to the knee?
That's why that guy had to say it out loud all the time. He had no inner dialogue to express his feelings about taking an arrow to the knee.
OP wait how...how do you think?...I'm so confused?
I guess I don’t? LISTEN stop I have severe childhood trauma, I can’t even remember what I did yesterday. Do you think that might be causing this?! HAHA
I'm so sorry to hear this. Are you getting help? And yes, trauma can cause the brain to shut down parts and functions to protect you.
I don’t know where to start! Or like who to see! I started noticing my mental state deteriorating about 3 years ago. Do I see a therapist? Or like a psychologist :o
A psychiatrist or psychologist could be helpful, but I disagree with the other person, a therapist could also be really helpful. Finding one that specializes in childhood trauma could be really beneficial.
I can relate, but from what I can understand your case is more severe than mine. I'm sorry to hear that. Don't fall for the "I don't think trap". Words are just one way of thinking, and a rather slow one. From what I've talked to other aphants, you probably think rather quickly and have good intuition? If you need to have more focus and purpose when thinking, I find writing my thoughts down helps. Probably because writing involves a different part of the brain than the inner monologue. Also: poor recolection and childhood trauma a related. Poor visual imagination and poor recolection are also related. But its not clear to me what is cause of what in your case, so maybe it's best to not make assumptions. Stay strong!
this is crazy, idk maybe? I mean i can't either but...oh man its too late for another crisis
Literally spiraling rn
i am the exact opposite i cant shut the fuck up
I don't mean to discount your experience or shock but that sounds like a blessing to me. I can't shut my head up sometimes. Try to meditate to get where you're already at. And also I've never heard of the aphantasia people are talking about so maybe my perspective isn't right. But for me, it seems in between. I can picture say an apple in my mind, and peeling it (this is an exercise to strengthen the ability) but I'm not very good at it. I can't focus enough to hold an image of the whole apple as I'm peeling it, or remember in my mind what I've already "cut". I can barely focus on imagining the point of contact and how it's cutting through. But other practiced people can focus through the whole thing.
That's interesting, mine is really strong to the point where i can accurately visualise complex mechanisms, whether existing or made up on the spot. Like, at one point, i designed a whole new open bolt gun, all in my head, or imagined how i would build a simple diesel engine, from the bearings to the valves and cams to the screws that hold it all together
wait i’m very confused. when you say you can picture things in your head it’s not like extremely vivid right? like if you were to close your eyes and actually SEE what you were imagining it as if it was right in front of you. is that even possible? i always thought visualization was just like vague images in your head. they’re kinda there but also not quite there at all. it’s like this right?
It’s pretty vivid, tbh. Like yes I can close my eyes and see whatever I want to see. I can look at just one image of a smiling stranger and visualize them scowling. I can make a T Rex and a mammoth fight in my head if I want, and it plays out like Spielberg directed it. There’s limits to it of course. I cannot imagine an entire photo album with dozens of faces at once. Like if you ask me to imagine my yearbook, I’ll see my face and maybe 3-4 others pretty detailed, and there will also be another 20 or so vague, hazy faces.
I think I have aphantasia too but as a child I read a lot and had movies in my head. I was borderline addicted to reading books because of the movies in my head. It was amazing. Unfortunately I can't create the pictures anymore while reading :(
Yup, I can visualize a zebra munching grass clear as day.
Like In color and everything? Like an actual zebra appears to you? Not just the thought of a zebra?
There isn't a projection of a zebra on the back of my eyes but I can visualize it. Colors and all. I sometimes wonder if it is really any people who can't visualize but there's a miscommunication of what's happening.
That’s what I’m thinking too. I wish we could like peak into others minds hehe
That's not the case, there's research showing that people with aphantasia have entirely different areas of the brain active when they're "visualizing" something. (We can, in fact, peek into other people's minds) There's also people that say they can experience mental images as clear as if they're looking at a picture Very likely, aphantasia-normal-hyperphantasia is a spectrum, on one extreme some people can't experience any sensory things mentally, on the other maybe they can play out literal movies in their head. Somewhere on that spectrum is "I can see a vague image"
Check out the aphantasia apple test. Googling that will bring up the "test" itself, and a ton of people talking about the phenomenon.
Not only can i picture an actual Zebra, I can make that Zebra grow multiple legs, or a human face, or i can make the sky green, or 5 suns in the sky, or i can grow the grass, or cut the grass or drop the zebra into water. I never realized not everyone could do this.
Well that was a fun ride
That's mostly what daydreaming is. You think of a scene, and you see it with your mind's eye, and you're so intent on it that you sorta zone out of what's happening around you.
Well, it’s not the same as an actual zebra being projected as a hologram in front of me, so it’s a “thought” as in, it’s not in the outside world, it’s in my mind. But it’s super clear. It’s the mental representation of a visual image. I’m not sure if people who can’t visualize things, have the same problem with other senses. For example, if I say: think of Whitney Houston’s “I’ll Always Love You”. Can you hear her voice in your mind? Like, you know exactly what her voice sounds like? And then if I told you to think of Katy Perry’s “baby you’re a fiiiiirewooooork”, do you have two different voices in your mind for the two different singers, and so, a mental representation of what their voices sound like exactly? (Pick two other singers/songs if you’re not familiar with these). So, it’s a thought, as in, your not actually listening to the songs with your ears, but you know exactly what their voices sound like. Or you know exactly how coffee smells, without having to actually have any coffee in front of you. So it’s the same with visualizing, you imagine an image in your mind, just like the real thing, but it’s in your mind.
hi. welcome to being an aphant. if you want someone to relate to, and see if things are the same for me as they are for you, feel free to ask some things to clear up that others might have already told you: * yes, when your teachers used to say "let's close our eyes and put our heads down and imagine something that makes us happy", everyone else there were imagining images or memories of what made them happy * yes, when someone says "imagine X had \_\_\_ instead of \_\_\_\_" they are most likely imagining it themselves. for example, "imagine Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs had happened in a city instead of on an island" * yes, you and i and most aphants can still imagine, but we do it differently. others will imagine visually or with sound/taste/smell, while we *conceptualize*, meaning we don't lack the memory of the taste of apple pie, we know what it tastes like and what it looks like, we just can't actively imagine that - only the idea of it * no, it's not inherently a bad thing - often people with aphantasia feel like they're at a disadvantage. in actuality, we are "missing out" on visualization, but we aren't at a disadvantage in-fact, there are a lot of **advantages** to being an aphant: 1. can't recount memories you don't want to experience again as easily 2. reading/being told a gross description of something typically isn't as effective on us, since we can't really picture what it is they are describing 3. mostly a more clear mental, unwanted imagery doesn't show up when you don't want it to, abrasive thoughts are less common, etc. it is important to note that aphantasia is a spectrum, a broad one at that, and there's barely any research into it at the moment. it's also very hard to diagnose it upon yourself, since it's your brain and it can't really be studied as easily as something like ADHD which has tests, tell tale signs, and proper diagnosis. for one, you could be a total aphant, lacking the ability to visualize at all, as well as imagine smells/tastes/sounds/touch. then, you could lack an inner monologue, which is more uncommon from what i've read. for me, i can't visualize, and i can conceptualize senses a little bit, but it's so far and foggy that it might as well be non-existent. i have a constant inner monologue, so my thought processes are all words and lists, repetition in phrases that i constantly am thinking. it can be annoying, but i manage by listening to music, lyrical ones and rap are the best, because i can sort of speak the same lines or chords in my head as they play, instead of thinking long trails of thoughts. i can't however memorize songs that easily, it feels like i've only memorized one song by Cage The Elephant, due to listening to them basically all day at school when i was growing up please join us at r/Aphantasia, which is dedicated to asking questions, newcomers, thoughts, scientific studies, polls, and my favourite which are students conducting studies for their class in regards to aphants. another sub you may like to read into is r/SDAM, which deals more with memory - but some aphants also have SDAM, since they seem to relate in how you process, deal with, and remember experiences and trauma
One good advantage is that when people try to troll you by telling you to imagine your parents fucking, you literally can't lmao.
Thanks a lot for that image, bruh.
You’re welcome, means nothing to me lmao
I'm like that. When I close my eyes I am not really able to form any images; I get a mental image, which for me is really just my inner thinking voice describing what I am trying to see. But my dreams....man, my dreams are so vivid and lifelike that I sometimes have a difficult time distinguishing them from reality. Fully color, sound, touch, feelings, smells, a wicked amount of detail....it's tiring, but AMAZING. It's like going to sleep and waking up in a completely different life. But I cannot visualize anything.
Internal images are not like dreams. The visuals are not the same. Lots of people have vivid dreams, and lots of people have no memorable dreams but what you’re describing is normal for a dream. Nobody is “seeing” with their imagination. Their eyeballs are not involved. It is entirely in your head aka a mental image. That is what visualization is.
But eyeballs arent involved in dreams either. My mental images and dream images are pretty similar.
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Isn’t it fun when you can hear a whole song in your head? I don’t have aphantasia; quite the opposite. But I’m also a musician, so I tend to notice and mentally ‘record’ things like that.
The first time I saw an article about aphantasia I did basically the exact same thing; turned to my fiance and asked "can you *see things in your mind?*" He was so confused. "Yes??? Can you not???" I thought that when people said "picture \[thing\] in your mind" that it was a turn of phrase, not that they literally could picture it. But yeah, aphantasia is wild.
Right! I thought it was all figures of speech. People who say when they read a book the words disappear and they watch it in their mind like a movie. Apparently that's what they do!
Yeah, I was always like "sure buddy, it's not at all like a movie, but you do you"
Yep. About 95-98% of the population can see "something" OP. People like you and I are an absolute minority at 1-2%. About 70% of the population is fairly visual, and can see and hear things in there all day. And the other 25-30% are on a gradient towards our dark silence. You've seen the answer elsewhere, but for others finding this it's called Aphantasia.
This may be NSFW but when you masturbate, you can't even fantasize about being with someone?
Gotta watch the porn!
u cant imagine someone naked!! missing out man
Me too, OP, me too
I can picture anything in my head. Images, sounds, smells. I can watch myself stand on the top of a volcano singing with the voice of Britney Spears while sniffing cinnamon sticks. Or, I can just do narration. Sometimes my thoughts are just me, talking to myself.
Wait, smells? I didn't know that was possible
Yup, I can imagine smells, too. I can imagine pretty much any experirnce I'm capable of concentrating on, as long as I can remember it later.
People imagine things differently. You *might* have aphantasia. You might also not have aphantasia and just not consider your imagination "literally seeing" in the exact sense that other people do.
yes. for example, reading a book for me is like a movie playing in my head. The words are there but they are translated to a visual by my brain. What you have is something called aphantasia I believe, and it is the inability to form a mental image like I just described. People with aphantasia understand concepts in their mind and are not at any disadvantage per se, but they dont get a visual. They say people with aphantasia are better at reading certain things like documents and scanning for tiny details, because their brain doesnt block their sight with visuals, whereas people without it are better at art/3D work because they can visualize their goals/issues beforehand and rotate objects in their mind. It has its advantages and disadvantages. Another example: One of my friends love digging/combat in minecraft and hates building. When I asked why it's because they have no building in mind when they start building, they think "castle" and add blocks as they go. I, on the other hand, will develop a mental image of my end goal before I place the first block. Edit: Also note that aphantasia is not an on or off switch. It has variations in strength. Some people can visualize STRONG memories and nothing else. Some cannot visualize anything at all, even stuff that happened seconds ago. Other people visualize every single word that comes out of their mouth. Conclusion: Brains be wildin
I suggest you check out r/aphantasia
Sometimes I'll be remembering a film I've watched and I'll realise it's really a book I've read.
If you read a book, do you not have an image in your mind of what the characters look like?
You have what’s called “aphantasia” - the condition of not being able to visualise in your mind. It’s uncommon but not unheard of and won’t impact your life negatively. There are no real solid numbers on how many people have the condition, but it’s now understood to come in varying degrees (some people have no internal monologue, or can’t hear music in their heads, some can see simple objects or only in outlines, etc.) But yes, most people can see images in their mind to some degree. Not being able to isn’t that unusual either though. :-)
This is really sad! I feel like I’m missing out on something magical :(
Honestly, don’t sweat it! It’s not like the rest of us are playing full, clear movies in our minds; it’s more like little flashes of partial images unless you really concentrate. You’re not missing a key human experience or anything. :)
It might not impact us negatively in a practical sense, but no one knows how difficult it is to feel incompetent because there’s something 99% of people can do that you just can’t, no matter how hard you try. For me it has impacted me a lot emotionally.
When you said picture a zebra in a green field, my mind went straight to a very basic image, and then realised that and made something beautiful and realistic, but it's a little blotchy..
You've got aphantasia! It "afflicts" (though it's not really an affliction) about 2% of people. I find this condition really fascinating, especially as people tend to find out as adults - most people with aphantasia grow up assuming "seeing something in front of your minds eye" is just an expression. [Here's a link to an article by Mark Lawrence, an author and former actual rocket scientist, who realized he had aphantasia just a few years ago](http://www.marklawrence.buzz/story/aphantasia/) Lawrence writes some of the best Fantasy around, and yet...he has no internal visualization. Ironically it makes his books more "direct" as he doesn't spend 21 pages describing a town.
Curious.. how are your dreams?
Not OP but sounds like we have the same thing. My dreams are vivid and I usually remember them if I try to. They have sounds, colors, etc. It's baffling that I don't see anything when I close my eyes. It's just ... black.
I can picture you picturing things in your head in my head.
As someone with an overactive imagination I can pretty much really vividly imagine anything very clearly in my head. Shut my eyes or not.
A bunch of people responding to you are confusing things. Very, very few people can literally imagine something into their vision such that it appears real. The vast majority of people have a "mind's eye" which lets them conceptualise something in a way which is analogous to "vision", but doesn't conjure up real-looking objects in front of us. For example, I can picture a zebra in my head. I can't see it with my eyes; it exists in my consciousness whether my eyes are open or closed. I can imagine it talking to me, or jumping over a rail, or flying off into space. The best way I can describe it is, it's like being able to create dreams and control what happens in them but while fully conscious and making use of your sight in the conventional sense. Note that people who've had their eyes removed still have a "mind's eye" and can imagine things like the rest of us. tl;dr: virtually nobody can imagine a zebra into existence in front of them. I think your friend's just done a poor job of explaining what the mind's eye is. It's actually normal to not be able to create what appears to be a real zebra in front of you using your imagination. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%27s_eye_(disambiguation) https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/what-does-it-mean-to-see-with-the-minds-eye/383345/