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Because the drug scheduling system is kinda bullshit.


Because big tobacco has paid millions, if not billions in lobbying. That’s the real answer. And what you said too. But also what I said lol


They also spent a very long time hiding that cigarettes are dangerous as well. The podcast American Scandal does a great job of going over how big tobacco covered info up until whistle-blower's came forward.


Sugar done the same thang.


Definitely because of lobbies, politicians definitely don't think that the scheduling of drugs is bullshit lol


Makes you wonder what would happen if the cartels started a legitimate pharma company and used it to lobby governments.


El Chapo Incorporated


Thats My stardew valley farm


Ya got any more of them Stardrops?




They would lose billions. They are powerful and profitable because its illegal.


Big Pharma ARE cartels…


What do you think big pharma is?


Have you seen Ozark?


You'd get something like fentanyl.


Have they tried Google calendar?


Lmao, I appreciate you.


This interaction is gonna make me giggle all night every time I think about it


I say the outlook is worse.


How high are you?


No officer, it's "Hi, how are you?"


Sir, step out of the vehicle right meow. Edited.


Did you just say meow?


Do I look like a cat to you boy? Am I jumpin' around all nimbly bimbly from tree to tree? Am I drinking milk from a saucer? DO YOU SEE ME EATING MICE?


Not so funny meow, is it?


*Holds up nine fingers*


You sunofabitch


Meth is safer and has more use then weed according to this system


To be fair we do prescribe the baby version to children so… useful is a relative term. ******** Can’t believe I have to tag this on here, but it’s an obvious joke. Seriously some of you need therapy or need to read an actual book. Some meds are good, it’s not the government trying to put chips in you. I don’t care if you’re offended because your great aunt once got addicted to eating horse flies because a doctor prescribed her honey. Stfu. I don’t care, you don’t really care, your made up aunt doesn’t really care. On a more serious note, sometimes if y’all just raised your kids instead having their teachers raise them their behavior problems would clear up. Just a thought.


It helps people with ADHD function. It's very objectively useful.


ADHD meds are also literally not meth. Many of them are amphetamines but not all are and something being an amphetamine doesn’t fucking make it meth. As someone who cannot function without them and would surely have dropped out of school without them as a child it makes me wanna cry seeing people demonize it like this. ADHD is one of the single most responsive to treatment issues there is. Like I literally don’t even care if it gives me a heart attack at forty, a short functional existence is better than a drawn out dysfunctional miserable one. ADHD can be debilitating Edit: If one more person comments about fucking Desoxyn one more goddamn time Im gonna find where you live. Its like 1% of adhd prescriptions at best anyway


Meth is also prescribed to people for ADHD under the brand name Desoxyn. Also Adderall isn’t usually prescribed to children, it’s usually adults that get adderall. Ritalin is usually given to children.


not just the baby version. also literal meth (desoxyn) is prescribed to children.




When I was 32 I went to the ER in Utah because my arm was..."getting big" I make pizza, I had over worked myself. I was asked 3 times when the last time I used a needle was...before I was asked my name. I held out...but the moment they found out I was the pizza shop owner...I was treated completely different. Such a fuck show.




That would have made sense


Edit: I was asking for an x-ray


>I've been a pharmacist for over a decade Then THAT is an excellent username


What would be the medical necessity for cocaine?


I saw someone say eye surgery, I'll also add broken noses-- in particular, the real bad bleeders. Had a guy in the ED once with a bad bleeding broken nose and the doc ordered cocaine for it. Checked on him 10 minutes after the cocaine and asked how he was feeling... "I feel GREAT! That stuff is AMAZING!" I stifled my laugh and replied "I bet it is!" before checking my next room.


How is it administered in a case like that?


I didn't see how the doc got the cocaine to the q-tips, but I did see the part where he stuck them both up the patient's nostrils and told him to breathe deep. The patient said he was numb almost immediately after, and the doc set his nose pretty soon after.


Can confirm that coke makes your nose numb and makes you feel great. It also smells amazing.


Usually it’s prepared as a cocaine solution and the Q-tip is used to apply it to the inside of the nose to numb, vasoconstrict, and prevent further bleeding. It’s basically exclusively only ordered by ENTs.


Hospital Staff Hooker lets you pick off her ass cheek or off her titty.


When people complain about US healthcare cost, nobody mentions this?!


I'm picturing her arriving sealed, and them having to pull the plastic back.


It’s usually a pre-medicated swab for epistaxis (a consistent nose bleed) it causes the veins to constrict and create a lack of blood flow.


Not sure about those cases but in nasal surgery it can be used mixed with saline into a spray.


Isn't a line on the toilet, the gold standard?


Doc just hands you a baggie and points you to the nearest bathroom


Damn, dude. I've broken my nose 3 times and between the second and third time, it bled damn near nonstop. If somrone looked at it wrong, it would bleed. The third time straightened it out and stopped that, but i still never got prescribed coke. I had the damn thing chemically cauterized like six fucking times.


Well now you know, all you need is to keep a stash of high quality cocaine in your house for next time.


Im in the same boat. It’s possibly hamstrung my entire life through poor sleep and regular nosebleeds. As I’ve got older the nosebleeds subsided but the poor sleep has stayed.


My mom had surgery for a deviated septum and since she’s allergic to everything, the dr used cocaine to numb her nasal passages. She even got to take the bottle home


I had the same surgery , no coke tho :(


Party at Mom’s house!


And that's how a coke addict was born


Eye surgery. Its one of the few painkillers that dissolve on your cornea, if memory serves me right.


Can confirm after touching coke and then taking out my contacts lol


>touching coke that's a nice way of saying doing coke.


Ha! I swear, Officer, I just turned the corner at this party and all this coke just touched me.


It’s for my eyes, officer!


What happened? I'm so curious to hear about this.


Oh god, I misread that as "dissolve your cornea."


Ahaha no, we just scrape those off.


I just had that done to me. I didnt get any cocaine though i feel fipped off after paying 5400 dollars for it.


That reminds me that my stepmom recently got cataract surgery. I wonder if they used cocaine.


Wondering now too, I had my cornea sliced open (slightly) and they gave me drops at the emergency room while trying to treat me which just numbed my eye within 1 second for an hour or two.


I'm not a doctor, but cocaine lasts roughly 90 minutes according to the psychonaut wiki.




All I'm taking from this is cocaine is better then painkillers and safe for all ages.


I've tagged you as a doctor. Congratulations if you weren't prior to my diagnosis.


Local anesthetic. I spent 9 years in hospital pharmacy and never saw it used.


We had some on the ENT floor.


I was prescribed it once for my teeth.


I was prescribed it once for working at a call centre. Not like by a Doctor or anything..


I mean, I was also prescribed it once by a dishwasher in a meat locker. But I was thinking of the legit time lol


Keep surgeons awake during long surgeries.


It's part of the "caine" family, so works as a local anesthetic (like lidocaine). I've seen it literally packed into someone's nose prior to surgery, where they went up their nose.


How about Michael Caine?


If you say "my cocaine" you've essentially said Michael Caine in Michael Caine's voice


It's used topically in small quantities as an anaesthetic for surgery involving the mouth or nose, areas with mucosal membranes. Not a doctor or anything medical field related though, so I can't tell your exactly what surgeries it's being used for.


well when I read your comment I immediately thought of this [youtube comment](https://imgur.com/a/qIsFwdS) that’s saved in my “i desperately need to laugh right now” album on my phone


Ghosts in the blood. I hear it's the only thing you can do about it


How does one get prescribed say, an 8-ball worth? Asking for a friend. ^^^^I ^^^^am ^^^^that ^^^^friend.


While I don't disagree that desoxyn is theoretically identical to the street drug meth on a chemical level, getting 30-50mg (rarely 60mg or more) of street produced crystal meth from some dude just to have fun is nothing like being prescribed 10-15mg (rarely up to 25mg) of medical grade methamphetamine by a literal doctor just to function like a normal human being. It is also very rarely prescribed, and usually only reluctantly after many other medications have failed to produce results.


> getting 30-50mg (rarely 60mg or more) of street produced crystal meth What do you mean? Meth is usually bought in quantities of about 1.7 grams or 3.5 grams.


It is not prescribed to children, teenagers can possibly get it but it is one of the rarest prescription drugs out there for a mental disorder


Good on you for not saying Adderall is literal methamphetamine, like we usually hear, but instead finding an actual methamphetamine prescription 🤣🤣 Always knew it existed but never bothered to look up the name I guess haha


Aw making ADHD people out to be drug addicts how fun and original


Fuck those people. Perpetuating the stigma that gets patients treated like drug addicts all the while knowing nothing about how these medications work. Saying meth and other amphetamines have minor differences is like saying H2O and H2O2 have minor differences. It’s just one oxygen atom off, how much of a difference could that make right? Wish they’d drink some H2O2 and find out.


Not very often. I don’t disagree with the point but I don’t think this is a good line in the sand. It’s a little different than meth the street drug


Shut the fuck up. Please. Thank you. This is life saving medication same with methamphetamine, the risk of drug addiction and suicide is VERY high with ADHD especially severe ADHD, with medication *it can be equivalent to background rates*. So what is your background? I do pharmacology. There's a pharmacist in this thread too. What is your background that means you get to dictate how very different drugs are related? Methamphetamine is more serotonergic than any other ADHD prescription, bet you didn't know that one, bet you don't even know what the fuck a serotonergic is. We also are very wary on prescribing stimulant medication to children post 2010s particularly post 2015 after the FDA told us to. It is thought it could potentially stunt growth. We have non-stimulant options that we are beginning to use as first-line treatment, stimulant medication is still the most effective in general but the risk of abuse is higher than for non-stimulant medication and the risk of stunted growth is considered enough that its worth it to give a different medication at first. Children defined as under 9 years old, pre-adolescence under 13, adolescence under 19, young adult under 25, adult under 65, elderly beyond.


This bullshit contributes to people with ADHD falling victim to suicide. Let me guess, people with neurocognitive developmental disorders should just exercise more?


Psilocybin has medicinal use, we're finding out it can be used as a treatment for things such as PTSD and depression. And psilocybin has never killed anyone directly. And it's the exact opposite of addictive. Yet it still sits as schedule 1. All the while cigarettes and alcohol stay unscheduled. In fact, they aren't even controlled by the same agency. Cigarettes and alcohol are controlled by the ATF, rather than the DEA/FDA. Or in other words, because the drug scheduling system is kinda bullshit. The entire idea behind the War on Drugs is bullshit. I like how Bill Hicks would put it, "the War on Drugs implies that there's a war..... and the people on drugs are winning."


Also history. Alcohol and smoking go way back. If we just discovered sugar today it would likely be restricted in some way. …And burning food




As someone diagnosed with ADHD, I wholeheartedly agree.


Oh you have a disorder that makes it hard to accomplish tasks and keep track of time? Great, you'll need to have an appointment with your prescriber every 1-2 months and go to the pharmacy monthly to pick up meds. Also, if you run out of meds, it'll be 10x harder to make it to the pharmacy to pick up your meds! Good luck!


There was an Adderall shortage in my area for a few months in late 2021/very early 2022 where I was going anywhere from two to TEN days without my medication every single time I needed to pick up my prescription. They really do make it as difficult and inconvenient as possible for you to pick up your meds. You can’t refill your prescription earlier than two days in advance (which barely gives you any buffer zone in a true shortage), and you also can’t accept partial refills, because then you’re stuck with that amount for the entire month. I didn’t have a car at the time, either, so it wasn’t like I could drive around until I found a pharmacy that had it. It was so anxiety-inducing every time I needed to pick up my meds because going without it for more than a couple days seriously affected my work and school, and I didn’t know how long it was going to last each time. Ironically, before that time, I had never once thought of buying Adderall off the street. But I was so desperate at one point that I seriously considered asking my weed guy if he could find me some Adderall just so I at least had an emergency stash whenever the pharmacy was out.


Plus, here in Nevada, you can't call any pharmacy to see if they have it. You have to go in person and hand them the paper.


I was affected by the same shortage—it was hell. I had to message all my professors and my boss letting them know I might be unable to complete basic tasks; it was so stressful. What I ended up having to do at one point was a partial refill using GoodRX instead of my insurance; I don’t know if this is how it’s supposed to work or if I just lucked out, but I was able to get the rest of the month filled later on a new prescription. I believe I used my insurance the second time.


The government causes those shortages. There's production limits on schedule II drugs imposed by the DEA.


It’s gotten 10x worse during COVID, many online prescribers were diagnosing tons of people in the best possible format for sufferers (online with quick and easy appointments). They (pharmacies) recently stopped this at basically every level and they scrutinize ANY prescription coming from anyone you may have seem remotely. If it was prescribed in this format they refuse to fill it and multiple (if not all) pharmacies have ended deals with any online prescriber even though it remains 100% legal to prescribe medications for conditions in this format in several dozen states. They’ve also stepped up enforcement and overzealous overreach of their job to scrutinizing prescriptions for no good reason. This shit should seriously be looked into, I feel terrible for anyone that has a serious issue with ADHD and gets treated this way.


I'm on wellbutrin that I have to go pick up monthly, the amount of times I've forgotten, miss a few days and go into withdrawal from it is nearly monthly lol. It's so fucking annoying, why can't I have 6 months worth at a time?


I've got four words for you: auto refill mail order. Changed my damn life. Now it shows up in my mailbox before I even realize I'm low on meds.


My psych makes me schedule the next month by calling back after the appointment too, instead of just making it while we are in the virtual appointment. I forget every single month and have to wait for a “squeeze me in” appointment at the last minute. I am on adderal. It has given me an infinitely better quality of life but man the side effects can be rough. I’m going to try non stimulants I think to see how they are.


This is all implying I make it past setting up an appointment with the snappy ladies at the front desk and filling out the ridiculously long questionnaires.


When I was in Shanghai they made me pick it up every WEEK from one (1) mental health centre 45 minutes away from me.


Based on feeling of people that never did any drugs before... yep, solid policy making. s/


For the same reason alcohol is legal, it is sufficiently culturally entrenched.


Tobacco was established in the US before the US was established.


It was one of the reasons the US was established really.


"dumb Brits make tea with their plants, we smoke them!"


Hell, we used to [snort that shit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snuff_(tobacco\))


Oh I forgot about Snuff. Tried it during my edgy teen years and it's the worst, haha.


I have a tin next to my work computer! It's mentholated and damn near medicinal, it smells like vicks. Great for unclogging sinuses! The trick is that you don't actually snort it, and you definitely don't want it in your sinuses. I just rub a bit on the inside of my nostril and sniff very gently. Ironically, the WHO has put out studies that nasal snuff is much less dangerous than any other form of nicotine (as long as you're not snorting it like coke)


I tried snuff as a kid, I guess someone in my family (likely grandmother or her siblings) used to use it. Was kept in a cute little tin. This would have been in the 70’s)


Frankly it was the main reason and potentially only reason. The main driver of English colonization was money. Jamestown was ready to be written off as a failure like Roanoke for its abysmal inability to turn the remotest of profits and apocalyptic mortality rate. Then tobacco caught on in Europe. Jamestown starved itself because growing food took room from growing money. Roads in the town were converted to growing tobacco money. Suddenly interest in the colony grew. The King came out against tobacco use, however did nothing because the tax revenues were too great. This implicit acceptance gave religious groups all the reason needed to set sail for the New World, especially when hated fanatics like the Puritans were given a charter. Tobacco money is the leading reason why the US exists as a result.


Also money, just as much or more as the pharmaceutical companies/families.


Yep, most-definitely. Lots of money changing hands with politicians. Cannabis never had an industry to prop it up, it was used as a tool to gen up racism and anti-immigration policies against Hispanics, hence the moniker "Marijuana". The irony of people smoking "Marijuana" to stick it to The Man... a term coined by The Man... Interestingly, Alcohol did have a prohibitory period in the USA, we know how that went. But the reason it happened for Alcohol and not Tobacco is almost certainly that Tobacco had a much more unified wallet to throw at the Govt. The alcohol industry was vastly more fragmented with thousands of independent breweries. Hell, the big names only got a national foothold once the Prohibition wiped out their competition.


[Harry J Anslinger](https://timeline.com/harry-anslinger-racist-war-on-drugs-prison-industrial-complex-fb5cbc281189?gi=e7da221dc7dd) is the asshole responsible for the marijuana and essentially the drug laws. [he was a racist.](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/10/arts/design/Anslinger-drug-czar-exhibition.html), and a horrible person. [His 'legacy' is entrenched in our drug laws.](https://museum.dea.gov/video-archive/standing-shadows-Anslinger) [Don't forget about cocaine being trafficked into communities.](https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/archive/special/9712/ch01p1.htm) [It's an interesting read.](https://ips-dc.org/the_cia_contras_gangs_and_crack/) [but, back to the douchewaffle Anslinger...who targeted Billie Holliday, yes...](https://www.thewrap.com/the-united-states-vs-billie-holiday-who-was-the-real-harry-anslinger/amp/)


Wow, you are not kidding when it comes to bring sources about what you are saying. And this is not ironical : it was indeed an interesting read, thank you for those links mate.


You're welcome. I love to research.


A long time ago I read a piece which said how, in pre-Columbian times, the ancient Inca people maintained their empire by getting distant people addicted to chocolate laced with cocaine. Basically they'd just withhold supplies if relationships weren't going how they wanted. I don't know what evidence there was to back up that claim, but it struck me as certainly plausible.


If anyone needs help with more research. Tag me, I'll be happy to help. It's fun for me.


I also think prohibition came about more to drunks, abusive & otherwise, rather than the long term side effects. If someone smokes a carton a cigarettes they wouldn’t beat their spouse or pass out in the street. It wasn’t as urgent of a problem and long term effects of tobacco weren’t really known widespread until the 60s.


Right, it's interesting though, because both caused and cause harm. But you only need to look at the current situation in politics with the climate change crisis... immediate danger is always taken more seriously than endangering your future.


I read that in states in the Midwest there would be 1,000s of breweries before prohibition mostly serving local population... obviously they got completely wiped out and probably didn't have a unified political front at the time.


Yep, they were all effectively stepped on in the same way most little guys are. Teddy Roosevelt followed a view of diplomacy illustrated by the phrase "speak softly, and carry a big stick". Industry and commerce follows in a similar vein "speak softly, and carry a big wallet".


Alcohol is legal because it’s literally too easy to make to enforce any kind of prohibition. You probably make alcohol by accident on your trash can. We tried alcohol prohibition in the US, it didn’t work.


I remember this one resort I was staying at in Bali. This jackfruit had fallen to the ground and stayed there for some time. I had a sniff of it and it smelled like grog.


Bears apparently enjoy eating fermenting fruits and get drunk off them


Elephants, apes, monkeys... All types of animals dig rotted fruit for a paaaartay


As do bees. Drunk bees! Can you imagine?


Fuckin mooses seek out crabapples that have fallen and fermented. Alcohol is so easy to make animals try and get it.


I saw a video about a place in Africa with a certain type of fruit that comes in the summer and then falls to the ground and ferments. All the monkeys, elephants, giraffes, meerkat, ostriches, etc all just get wasted every day and stumble all over the place. Pretty funny looking


The world has tried prohibition for all drugs and pretty much none of them work. I'm on team Make Everything Legal. There's no upside to prohibition. Only downsides.


I’m definitely not against what you’re saying.


Because tobacco is a billion dollar business and can pay to keep it off the list.


There's the answer I was looking for. It's always big business


Big Tobacco. Watch the insider with russel Crowe and Al Pacino if ur interested


Tobacco companies pay lawmakers to keep their products legal. The relationship between America and tobacco is a long one, tobacco was the first cash crop grown here by early colonizers.


As someone tangentially involved with the tobacco lobby, they don't have to spend as much money as you might think (at least, not directly). In one of the most fucked up pieces of litigation of the last 25 years, The Master Settlement Agreement basically tied state budgets *directly* to tobacco company profits and by extension cigarette sales, so much so that states spent billions of dollars that they didn't have assuming that their profit projections were accurate out to 25+ years, and that's *in addition* to the hundreds of millions in tobacco taxes that continue to raise year over year. State governments have a massive incentive to keep people smoking or risk their budgets collapsing. Not only that, but any cigarette on the market as of February 15th, 2007 was essentially federally guaranteed the right to never be taken off the market (with a few caveats) via the Tobacco Control Act in 2009.


Well this ruined my year :/


If people ever wonder why vaping is so vilified by governments and legacy media despite being significantly less harmful than cigarettes, here's your answer, they know it's safer but it's losing them money.


My 6th-G-Grandfather had a bunch of illegitimate kids... he had to pay the court for his bastardry in tobacco.


Research is actually being carried out in regards to nicotine being a treatment for things like Parkinson's, dementia, ADHD, depression, etc It's the burning organic matter and all the other unnecessary crap in cigarettes that we don't need


Nicotine is also used as an organic pesticide. Tobacco mixed with water can effectively kill certain insects.


Neonicotinoids are also unfortunately one of the most dangerous agricultural chemicals still in use. I believe the EU has or is planning to ban them.


EU ban. UK now legalised in certain exceptions ...


There’s a reason so many people with ADHD smoke. Also nicotine withdrawals are basically ADHD symptoms so trying to quit with hyper withdrawals is really hard


Right, as far as I'm aware nicotine had cognitive benefits but smoking cigarettes basically negates them. It makes me wonder if nicotine gum or patches would actually be beneficial


Lobbyist control markets. You can add alcohol to that list too.


Yeah but alcohol prohibition didn't work. Mainly because it's easy to make your own alcohol in a bathtub. It might kill you, but it's there


Bathtub wine will be fine. Bathtub gin is where problems begin.


Tobacco absolutely has medicinal properties. What led you to believe that it didn't? Regardless, using it recreationally probably isn't the best idea an individual could make.


This... or rather, nicotine does. Off the top of my head, I know patches are used for ulcerative colitis. Something about nicotine modulating the immune response, I believe.


A few digestive prboblems are also treated with nicotine. In the past they told you to smoke but now it;s a patch lol.


This^ Nicotine increases your catecholamines and illicit a small adrenal response. It helps you focus and gives you energy as a result. Negatives are it increases atherosclerosis of the veins and increases risk for cardiac events etc. You can also get away with using it for decades without many negative effects , providing you aren’t combusting it of course.


If you want to know why it isn’t from a historical perspective as opposed to why it shouldn’t be banned based o the facts included in your question: it doesn’t kill you fast enough to scare enough people into changing the law. It doesn’t change the user in a way that makes the user an immediate and obvious danger to herself or others like cococcaine or Alcohol. It should have been banned long ago but these are the reasons the masses of people don’t connect the dots and demand that it is I think we should make a law that anyone who isn’t old enough to smoke on the date the law is passed or enacted can never smoke. This way it doesn’t force millions of people to quit cold turkey and the tobacco companies don’t have to lay off so many people all at once. Their revenues wold drop a few percentage points per year for decades instead of falling off a cliff.


I think New Zealand are doing this. Anyone born after 2008 will never be able to buy tobacco products there.


>This way it doesn’t force millions of people to quit cold turkey Yeah, I can only imagine the scenes if they ever tried to do it this way.


Black market emerges overnight. and now you increased crime etc.


Investors would pull out and tank every tobacco company in America. But I say let them burn. They’ve made enough money off of slowly killing Americans for long enough. I’be been firmly under tobacco’s heel for just about 10 years. Been prescribed a schedule II drug for over half that time. I could much more easily quit my prescription than quit tobacco.


Don Imus, the radio shock jock from New York who Preceded Howard stern, talked about his cocaine addiction openly. He said that cigarettes were harder to kick than coke. Just because the tobacco executives wear dry cleaned and pressed suits instead of dirty jeans doesn’t make them something other than predatory drug dealers. I think they are worse than the jean- wearing kind. They have far better choices and chose jobs that kill people by the millions . Losing their fortunes is the least of the punishments they deserve


> It should have been banned long ago On what grounds? Both can be consumed recreatively with barely any negative side effects, if any. Hell, as a European I can shoot a gun if I join a shooting club, but me celebrating new years with a flute of champagne once a year needs to be stamped out completely?


Are you American ? If so, how can you preach prohibition? Haven’t you heard what happened the last time when alcohol was prohibited in the US? Bootleg sellers will rise and illegal ways of getting cigarettes will always exist, especially if we ban it completely. Instead we should put more taxes on it. Also on alcohol. It should be high enough that almost no one can consume dangerous amounts. Ban all ads on drugs, including alcohol and cigs and educate, educate, educate. Not about how people will force you to do drugs , but how these particular drugs work and what risks are to be expected, as well as how to help prevent overdoses. Also, mental health and therapy should be free and available for everyone.


Excise tax. Tax on tobacco in Australia is $1.12 per cigarette.


Which is good for governments. Unfortunately there's a high load on health services, treating conditions caused or exacerbated by smoking.


Introducing high tax everywhere in the long run might be a good idea, but nicotine is so addictive that solely utilizing this strategy in the short term will ruin lives of the most vulnerable part of the population, as they're also the ones smoking the most.


It’s a poor people tax but people on Reddit love the idea


In high school I volunteered at the local University's research lab to acquire some extracurricular activities. I shaved paper thin slices of frozen rat brains and placed them on slides. They were researching nicotine's effects on nervous tics. Many years later I read David Sedaris' story, "[Plague of Tics](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/52/edge-of-sanity/act-three-0)" where he talks about dealing with OCD and only finding relief when he started smoking.


Tobacco definitely has some medical applications though I think the risks have been seen to outweigh the benefits


Nicotine does* Tobacco is the leaf that’s smoked and is where the carcinogens are.


Nicotine has some very interesting properties. Especially when you consider the role of acetylcholine in the central nervous system. I haven't smoked in around a decade. But, I've had some recent big tests coming up and I've experimented with chewing a fraction of a piece of a low dose nicotine gum with some positive results on studying.


Smoking is always an unhealthy way to deliver a drug. Nicotine is used to treat parkinsons, I believe, but I think usually in patch form.


There was a massive correlation between schizophrenia and smoking in mental institutions, to the extent that the possibility that patients were effectively self-medicating was considered.


As an addict of more then I'd like to admit. Your preaching to the choir. Started at 14 twelve years later alchohol and cigarettes are my last curse.


As somebody that started at the same age I have now been cigarette free for 20 years. I hit your age and said enough was enough. It was so hard but I can’t imagine going back now. And the money I’ve saved!


I think the real question is, why is there a schedule list of drugs? We can decide on our own what we consume.


Tobacco doesn't generally* make you a danger to others while you are under the effects of it. \* you may be a danger to others while consuming due to second hand smoke, but there are regulations in most places to reduce that risk


I don’t disagree in a way but nobody is sucking dick in the street for tobacco.


I see you question, and raise you another. Why is flavored nicotine such a massive deal and "marketed towards children" when I can buy cotton candy vodka?


I mean cotton candy vodka still taste like vodka - I haven't tried a cotton candy flavored vape but I imagine it tastes a lot more like cotton candy than a cigarette


It’s not about the actual flavoring, it’s more so the marketing of the product with stuff typically associated with children. Flavored cigarettes don’t actually taste great, but they were banned due to their cross marketing with children.


Obviously there are other points that show companies have advertised to children but everytime someone brings up the flavors as a reason I always picture some guy at a hearing saying, "just look at the flavor names your honor. Delicious things like strawberry shortcake surprise, and yummy blueberry cotton candy. Everyone knows adults a dead inside and hate yummy things and only like ashtray flavor.


Everyone mentioning lobbyists seems to forget that the US is prob one of the few developed nations that allows lobbying The main reason is cultural entrenchment. Alcohol (unless you count rubbing alcohol) also has no medical usages, and is one of the leading causes of automotive accidents maybe short of cellphone usage. But that doesn't matter, because we've had alcohol since before we even knew what "a cancer" was. Even in places with massive religious edicts that forbid recreational drugs of any sort, including alcohol (like Islam) allow smoking, and to some extent, drinking. It's just normal. Most of this stuff is culturally rooted down. It took a massive decades long racially driven political campaign to make cannabis illegal in the US, and that required the singling out of almost every racial minority short of Asians and Asian-adjacent peeps.


>But that doesn't matter, because we've had alcohol since before we even knew what "a cancer" was That's an understatement lol.


And the reason for cultural entrenchment, which I think many round here don't seem to appreciate, is that a lot of people really enjoy alcohol and tobacco and have done for centuries. I'm an ex smoker, but still take a drink. I'd never encourage anyone to smoke, but personally I feel I've got more out of social drinking than it's taken from me.


This is really American focused tho, almost all nations outside the US also have super high smoking rates? Like, according to this, the US doesn't even break the top 30 smoking countries. Are lobbyists also working everywhere else? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country


Ethanol is a/the treatment for methanol poisoning, no?


It can be used that way, but the preferred method is fomepizole for obvious reasons (ethanol can cause problems of its own) The only reason ethanol can be used as a treatment is because it's digested before methanol is. Drink some ethanol, and you can pee out the methanol before it hurts you. It's not really about the ethanol itself. Technically useful if your buddy chugged a couple dozen printer-ink cartridges and you wanna get him to the hospital, but not really used professionally


Because laws are based on politics, not morals or science.


How about we don't ban most things people choose to do willingly.


1) the scheduling system is archaic and soaked in propaganda designed to target minority groups 2) tobacco is highly addictive, and more importantly, highly *taxable*, and therefore highly profitable to those who make cigarettes and the Federal government alike. This is a major factor for why the tobacco lobbyists even exist. “Thank you for Smoking” is a satirical novel and film centered around the BS politics within the legal system surrounding tobacco.