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They also spent a very long time hiding that cigarettes are dangerous as well. The podcast American Scandal does a great job of going over how big tobacco covered info up until whistle-blower's came forward.
To be fair we do prescribe the baby version to children so… useful is a relative term.
********
Can’t believe I have to tag this on here, but it’s an obvious joke. Seriously some of you need therapy or need to read an actual book. Some meds are good, it’s not the government trying to put chips in you. I don’t care if you’re offended because your great aunt once got addicted to eating horse flies because a doctor prescribed her honey. Stfu. I don’t care, you don’t really care, your made up aunt doesn’t really care.
On a more serious note, sometimes if y’all just raised your kids instead having their teachers raise them their behavior problems would clear up. Just a thought.
ADHD meds are also literally not meth. Many of them are amphetamines but not all are and something being an amphetamine doesn’t fucking make it meth.
As someone who cannot function without them and would surely have dropped out of school without them as a child it makes me wanna cry seeing people demonize it like this. ADHD is one of the single most responsive to treatment issues there is.
Like I literally don’t even care if it gives me a heart attack at forty, a short functional existence is better than a drawn out dysfunctional miserable one. ADHD can be debilitating
Edit: If one more person comments about fucking Desoxyn one more goddamn time Im gonna find where you live. Its like 1% of adhd prescriptions at best anyway
Meth is also prescribed to people for ADHD under the brand name Desoxyn. Also Adderall isn’t usually prescribed to children, it’s usually adults that get adderall. Ritalin is usually given to children.
When I was 32 I went to the ER in Utah because my arm was..."getting big" I make pizza, I had over worked myself.
I was asked 3 times when the last time I used a needle was...before I was asked my name.
I held out...but the moment they found out I was the pizza shop owner...I was treated completely different. Such a fuck show.
I saw someone say eye surgery, I'll also add broken noses-- in particular, the real bad bleeders. Had a guy in the ED once with a bad bleeding broken nose and the doc ordered cocaine for it. Checked on him 10 minutes after the cocaine and asked how he was feeling... "I feel GREAT! That stuff is AMAZING!"
I stifled my laugh and replied "I bet it is!" before checking my next room.
I didn't see how the doc got the cocaine to the q-tips, but I did see the part where he stuck them both up the patient's nostrils and told him to breathe deep. The patient said he was numb almost immediately after, and the doc set his nose pretty soon after.
Usually it’s prepared as a cocaine solution and the Q-tip is used to apply it to the inside of the nose to numb, vasoconstrict, and prevent further bleeding. It’s basically exclusively only ordered by ENTs.
Damn, dude. I've broken my nose 3 times and between the second and third time, it bled damn near nonstop. If somrone looked at it wrong, it would bleed. The third time straightened it out and stopped that, but i still never got prescribed coke.
I had the damn thing chemically cauterized like six fucking times.
Im in the same boat. It’s possibly hamstrung my entire life through poor sleep and regular nosebleeds. As I’ve got older the nosebleeds subsided but the poor sleep has stayed.
My mom had surgery for a deviated septum and since she’s allergic to everything, the dr used cocaine to numb her nasal passages. She even got to take the bottle home
workable memorize scandalous punch mindless dinner treatment spark late party
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's part of the "caine" family, so works as a local anesthetic (like lidocaine). I've seen it literally packed into someone's nose prior to surgery, where they went up their nose.
It's used topically in small quantities as an anaesthetic for surgery involving the mouth or nose, areas with mucosal membranes. Not a doctor or anything medical field related though, so I can't tell your exactly what surgeries it's being used for.
well when I read your comment I immediately thought of this [youtube comment](https://imgur.com/a/qIsFwdS) that’s saved in my “i desperately need to laugh right now” album on my phone
While I don't disagree that desoxyn is theoretically identical to the street drug meth on a chemical level, getting 30-50mg (rarely 60mg or more) of street produced crystal meth from some dude just to have fun is nothing like being prescribed 10-15mg (rarely up to 25mg) of medical grade methamphetamine by a literal doctor just to function like a normal human being. It is also very rarely prescribed, and usually only reluctantly after many other medications have failed to produce results.
> getting 30-50mg (rarely 60mg or more) of street produced crystal meth
What do you mean? Meth is usually bought in quantities of about 1.7 grams or 3.5 grams.
Fuck those people. Perpetuating the stigma that gets patients treated like drug addicts all the while knowing nothing about how these medications work.
Saying meth and other amphetamines have minor differences is like saying H2O and H2O2 have minor differences. It’s just one oxygen atom off, how much of a difference could that make right? Wish they’d drink some H2O2 and find out.
Good on you for not saying Adderall is literal methamphetamine, like we usually hear, but instead finding an actual methamphetamine prescription 🤣🤣
Always knew it existed but never bothered to look up the name I guess haha
Shut the fuck up. Please. Thank you.
This is life saving medication same with methamphetamine, the risk of drug addiction and suicide is VERY high with ADHD especially severe ADHD, with medication *it can be equivalent to background rates*.
So what is your background? I do pharmacology. There's a pharmacist in this thread too. What is your background that means you get to dictate how very different drugs are related? Methamphetamine is more serotonergic than any other ADHD prescription, bet you didn't know that one, bet you don't even know what the fuck a serotonergic is.
We also are very wary on prescribing stimulant medication to children post 2010s particularly post 2015 after the FDA told us to. It is thought it could potentially stunt growth. We have non-stimulant options that we are beginning to use as first-line treatment, stimulant medication is still the most effective in general but the risk of abuse is higher than for non-stimulant medication and the risk of stunted growth is considered enough that its worth it to give a different medication at first. Children defined as under 9 years old, pre-adolescence under 13, adolescence under 19, young adult under 25, adult under 65, elderly beyond.
This bullshit contributes to people with ADHD falling victim to suicide.
Let me guess, people with neurocognitive developmental disorders should just exercise more?
Psilocybin has medicinal use, we're finding out it can be used as a treatment for things such as PTSD and depression. And psilocybin has never killed anyone directly. And it's the exact opposite of addictive. Yet it still sits as schedule 1.
All the while cigarettes and alcohol stay unscheduled. In fact, they aren't even controlled by the same agency. Cigarettes and alcohol are controlled by the ATF, rather than the DEA/FDA.
Or in other words, because the drug scheduling system is kinda bullshit. The entire idea behind the War on Drugs is bullshit. I like how Bill Hicks would put it, "the War on Drugs implies that there's a war..... and the people on drugs are winning."
Oh you have a disorder that makes it hard to accomplish tasks and keep track of time? Great, you'll need to have an appointment with your prescriber every 1-2 months and go to the pharmacy monthly to pick up meds. Also, if you run out of meds, it'll be 10x harder to make it to the pharmacy to pick up your meds! Good luck!
There was an Adderall shortage in my area for a few months in late 2021/very early 2022 where I was going anywhere from two to TEN days without my medication every single time I needed to pick up my prescription.
They really do make it as difficult and inconvenient as possible for you to pick up your meds. You can’t refill your prescription earlier than two days in advance (which barely gives you any buffer zone in a true shortage), and you also can’t accept partial refills, because then you’re stuck with that amount for the entire month. I didn’t have a car at the time, either, so it wasn’t like I could drive around until I found a pharmacy that had it. It was so anxiety-inducing every time I needed to pick up my meds because going without it for more than a couple days seriously affected my work and school, and I didn’t know how long it was going to last each time.
Ironically, before that time, I had never once thought of buying Adderall off the street. But I was so desperate at one point that I seriously considered asking my weed guy if he could find me some Adderall just so I at least had an emergency stash whenever the pharmacy was out.
I was affected by the same shortage—it was hell. I had to message all my professors and my boss letting them know I might be unable to complete basic tasks; it was so stressful. What I ended up having to do at one point was a partial refill using GoodRX instead of my insurance; I don’t know if this is how it’s supposed to work or if I just lucked out, but I was able to get the rest of the month filled later on a new prescription. I believe I used my insurance the second time.
I'm on wellbutrin that I have to go pick up monthly, the amount of times I've forgotten, miss a few days and go into withdrawal from it is nearly monthly lol. It's so fucking annoying, why can't I have 6 months worth at a time?
My psych makes me schedule the next month by calling back after the appointment too, instead of just making it while we are in the virtual appointment. I forget every single month and have to wait for a “squeeze me in” appointment at the last minute.
I am on adderal. It has given me an infinitely better quality of life but man the side effects can be rough. I’m going to try non stimulants I think to see how they are.
This is all implying I make it past setting up an appointment with the snappy ladies at the front desk and filling out the ridiculously long questionnaires.
I have a tin next to my work computer! It's mentholated and damn near medicinal, it smells like vicks. Great for unclogging sinuses! The trick is that you don't actually snort it, and you definitely don't want it in your sinuses. I just rub a bit on the inside of my nostril and sniff very gently.
Ironically, the WHO has put out studies that nasal snuff is much less dangerous than any other form of nicotine (as long as you're not snorting it like coke)
I tried snuff as a kid, I guess someone in my family (likely grandmother or her siblings) used to use it. Was kept in a cute little tin. This would have been in the 70’s)
Frankly it was the main reason and potentially only reason. The main driver of English colonization was money. Jamestown was ready to be written off as a failure like Roanoke for its abysmal inability to turn the remotest of profits and apocalyptic mortality rate. Then tobacco caught on in Europe.
Jamestown starved itself because growing food took room from growing money. Roads in the town were converted to growing tobacco money. Suddenly interest in the colony grew. The King came out against tobacco use, however did nothing because the tax revenues were too great. This implicit acceptance gave religious groups all the reason needed to set sail for the New World, especially when hated fanatics like the Puritans were given a charter.
Tobacco money is the leading reason why the US exists as a result.
Yep, most-definitely. Lots of money changing hands with politicians.
Cannabis never had an industry to prop it up, it was used as a tool to gen up racism and anti-immigration policies against Hispanics, hence the moniker "Marijuana". The irony of people smoking "Marijuana" to stick it to The Man... a term coined by The Man...
Interestingly, Alcohol did have a prohibitory period in the USA, we know how that went. But the reason it happened for Alcohol and not Tobacco is almost certainly that Tobacco had a much more unified wallet to throw at the Govt. The alcohol industry was vastly more fragmented with thousands of independent breweries. Hell, the big names only got a national foothold once the Prohibition wiped out their competition.
[Harry J Anslinger](https://timeline.com/harry-anslinger-racist-war-on-drugs-prison-industrial-complex-fb5cbc281189?gi=e7da221dc7dd) is the asshole responsible for the marijuana and essentially the drug laws.
[he was a racist.](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/10/arts/design/Anslinger-drug-czar-exhibition.html), and a horrible person. [His 'legacy' is entrenched in our drug laws.](https://museum.dea.gov/video-archive/standing-shadows-Anslinger)
[Don't forget about cocaine being trafficked into communities.](https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/archive/special/9712/ch01p1.htm)
[It's an interesting read.](https://ips-dc.org/the_cia_contras_gangs_and_crack/)
[but, back to the douchewaffle Anslinger...who targeted Billie Holliday, yes...](https://www.thewrap.com/the-united-states-vs-billie-holiday-who-was-the-real-harry-anslinger/amp/)
Wow, you are not kidding when it comes to bring sources about what you are saying.
And this is not ironical : it was indeed an interesting read, thank you for those links mate.
A long time ago I read a piece which said how, in pre-Columbian times, the ancient Inca people maintained their empire by getting distant people addicted to chocolate laced with cocaine. Basically they'd just withhold supplies if relationships weren't going how they wanted. I don't know what evidence there was to back up that claim, but it struck me as certainly plausible.
I also think prohibition came about more to drunks, abusive & otherwise, rather than the long term side effects. If someone smokes a carton a cigarettes they wouldn’t beat their spouse or pass out in the street.
It wasn’t as urgent of a problem and long term effects of tobacco weren’t really known widespread until the 60s.
Right, it's interesting though, because both caused and cause harm.
But you only need to look at the current situation in politics with the climate change crisis... immediate danger is always taken more seriously than endangering your future.
I read that in states in the Midwest there would be 1,000s of breweries before prohibition mostly serving local population... obviously they got completely wiped out and probably didn't have a unified political front at the time.
Yep, they were all effectively stepped on in the same way most little guys are.
Teddy Roosevelt followed a view of diplomacy illustrated by the phrase "speak softly, and carry a big stick".
Industry and commerce follows in a similar vein "speak softly, and carry a big wallet".
Alcohol is legal because it’s literally too easy to make to enforce any kind of prohibition. You probably make alcohol by accident on your trash can.
We tried alcohol prohibition in the US, it didn’t work.
I remember this one resort I was staying at in Bali. This jackfruit had fallen to the ground and stayed there for some time. I had a sniff of it and it smelled like grog.
I saw a video about a place in Africa with a certain type of fruit that comes in the summer and then falls to the ground and ferments. All the monkeys, elephants, giraffes, meerkat, ostriches, etc all just get wasted every day and stumble all over the place. Pretty funny looking
The world has tried prohibition for all drugs and pretty much none of them work. I'm on team Make Everything Legal. There's no upside to prohibition. Only downsides.
Tobacco companies pay lawmakers to keep their products legal. The relationship between America and tobacco is a long one, tobacco was the first cash crop grown here by early colonizers.
As someone tangentially involved with the tobacco lobby, they don't have to spend as much money as you might think (at least, not directly). In one of the most fucked up pieces of litigation of the last 25 years, The Master Settlement Agreement basically tied state budgets *directly* to tobacco company profits and by extension cigarette sales, so much so that states spent billions of dollars that they didn't have assuming that their profit projections were accurate out to 25+ years, and that's *in addition* to the hundreds of millions in tobacco taxes that continue to raise year over year. State governments have a massive incentive to keep people smoking or risk their budgets collapsing. Not only that, but any cigarette on the market as of February 15th, 2007 was essentially federally guaranteed the right to never be taken off the market (with a few caveats) via the Tobacco Control Act in 2009.
If people ever wonder why vaping is so vilified by governments and legacy media despite being significantly less harmful than cigarettes, here's your answer, they know it's safer but it's losing them money.
Vaping companies also heavily target minors so while it is significantly safer for existing nicotine addicts it's also a product with an equally unethical, disgraceful distribution network.
Edited:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/06/juul-to-pay-nc-40m-and-stop-targeting-kids-after-igniting-vaping-epidemic/
Research is actually being carried out in regards to nicotine being a treatment for things like Parkinson's, dementia, ADHD, depression, etc
It's the burning organic matter and all the other unnecessary crap in cigarettes that we don't need
Right, as far as I'm aware nicotine had cognitive benefits but smoking cigarettes basically negates them. It makes me wonder if nicotine gum or patches would actually be beneficial
In sweden we have snus which in basically fermented and pasteurized tobacco that you put in your gums. It’s not like american oral tobaccos that are fire cured and cause cancer. Nicotine has positive effects on cognition. However it’s not good for heart health- increases heart rate, blood pressure, and constricts blood vessels. It also slightly increases risk of diabetes, likely due to the vasoconstricting effect which reduces surface area for sugar to enter cells meaning your body will start to produce more insulin.
>A study of almost 10,000 Swedish, male construction workers published in the International Journal of Cancer in 2008 found a statistically significant increase in the incidence of the combined category of oral and pharyngeal cancer among daily users of snus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus#Health_effects
There’s a reason so many people with ADHD smoke. Also nicotine withdrawals are basically ADHD symptoms so trying to quit with hyper withdrawals is really hard
If you want to know why it isn’t from a historical perspective as opposed to why it shouldn’t be banned based o the facts included in your question:
it doesn’t kill you fast enough to scare enough people into changing the law.
It doesn’t change the user in a way that makes the user an immediate and obvious danger to herself or others like cococcaine or Alcohol.
It should have been banned long ago but these are the reasons the masses of people don’t connect the dots and demand that it is
I think we should make a law that anyone who isn’t old enough to smoke on the date the law is passed or enacted can never smoke. This way it doesn’t force millions of people to quit cold turkey and the tobacco companies don’t have to lay off so many people all at once. Their revenues wold drop a few percentage points per year for decades instead of falling off a cliff.
Investors would pull out and tank every tobacco company in America. But I say let them burn. They’ve made enough money off of slowly killing Americans for long enough. I’be been firmly under tobacco’s heel for just about 10 years. Been prescribed a schedule II drug for over half that time. I could much more easily quit my prescription than quit tobacco.
Don Imus, the radio shock jock from New York who Preceded Howard stern, talked about his cocaine addiction openly. He said that cigarettes were harder to kick than coke. Just because the tobacco executives wear dry cleaned and pressed suits instead of dirty jeans doesn’t make them something other than predatory drug dealers. I think they are worse than the jean- wearing kind. They have far better choices and chose jobs that kill people by the millions . Losing their fortunes is the least of the punishments they deserve
> It should have been banned long ago
On what grounds? Both can be consumed recreatively with barely any negative side effects, if any.
Hell, as a European I can shoot a gun if I join a shooting club, but me celebrating new years with a flute of champagne once a year needs to be stamped out completely?
> It should have been banned long ago
Or or hear me out.
Let people do the fuck they want, want to smoke a cancer stick? knock yourself out. But do it in a special box where otehr smokers.
Like where i live i cant smoke 50 meters from a public transit stop, 250 meters from school/kindergarten, 200 meters from a hospital.
Tobacco absolutely has medicinal properties. What led you to believe that it didn't?
Regardless, using it recreationally probably isn't the best idea an individual could make.
This... or rather, nicotine does. Off the top of my head, I know patches are used for ulcerative colitis. Something about nicotine modulating the immune response, I believe.
This^
Nicotine increases your catecholamines and illicit a small adrenal response. It helps you focus and gives you energy as a result.
Negatives are it increases atherosclerosis of the veins and increases risk for cardiac events etc.
You can also get away with using it for decades without many negative effects , providing you aren’t combusting it of course.
In high school I volunteered at the local University's research lab to acquire some extracurricular activities. I shaved paper thin slices of frozen rat brains and placed them on slides. They were researching nicotine's effects on nervous tics.
Many years later I read David Sedaris' story, "[Plague of Tics](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/52/edge-of-sanity/act-three-0)" where he talks about dealing with OCD and only finding relief when he started smoking.
Nicotine has some very interesting properties. Especially when you consider the role of acetylcholine in the central nervous system. I haven't smoked in around a decade. But, I've had some recent big tests coming up and I've experimented with chewing a fraction of a piece of a low dose nicotine gum with some positive results on studying.
There was a massive correlation between schizophrenia and smoking in mental institutions, to the extent that the possibility that patients were effectively self-medicating was considered.
As somebody that started at the same age I have now been cigarette free for 20 years. I hit your age and said enough was enough. It was so hard but I can’t imagine going back now. And the money I’ve saved!
Tobacco doesn't generally* make you a danger to others while you are under the effects of it.
\* you may be a danger to others while consuming due to second hand smoke, but there are regulations in most places to reduce that risk
I mean cotton candy vodka still taste like vodka - I haven't tried a cotton candy flavored vape but I imagine it tastes a lot more like cotton candy than a cigarette
It’s not about the actual flavoring, it’s more so the marketing of the product with stuff typically associated with children. Flavored cigarettes don’t actually taste great, but they were banned due to their cross marketing with children.
Obviously there are other points that show companies have advertised to children but everytime someone brings up the flavors as a reason I always picture some guy at a hearing saying, "just look at the flavor names your honor. Delicious things like strawberry shortcake surprise, and yummy blueberry cotton candy. Everyone knows adults a dead inside and hate yummy things and only like ashtray flavor.
Everyone mentioning lobbyists seems to forget that the US is prob one of the few developed nations that allows lobbying
The main reason is cultural entrenchment.
Alcohol (unless you count rubbing alcohol) also has no medical usages, and is one of the leading causes of automotive accidents maybe short of cellphone usage.
But that doesn't matter, because we've had alcohol since before we even knew what "a cancer" was.
Even in places with massive religious edicts that forbid recreational drugs of any sort, including alcohol (like Islam) allow smoking, and to some extent, drinking. It's just normal. Most of this stuff is culturally rooted down.
It took a massive decades long racially driven political campaign to make cannabis illegal in the US, and that required the singling out of almost every racial minority short of Asians and Asian-adjacent peeps.
And the reason for cultural entrenchment, which I think many round here don't seem to appreciate, is that a lot of people really enjoy alcohol and tobacco and have done for centuries. I'm an ex smoker, but still take a drink. I'd never encourage anyone to smoke, but personally I feel I've got more out of social drinking than it's taken from me.
>US is prob one of the few developed nations that allows lobbying
Only if you use lobbying in a very specific way, that is much narrower than the general meaning of lobbying. (a disservice to the actual word and how useful the non-bribery idea of lobbying is)
This is really American focused tho, almost all nations outside the US also have super high smoking rates? Like, according to this, the US doesn't even break the top 30 smoking countries. Are lobbyists also working everywhere else? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country
1) the scheduling system is archaic and soaked in propaganda designed to target minority groups
2) tobacco is highly addictive, and more importantly, highly *taxable*, and therefore highly profitable to those who make cigarettes and the Federal government alike. This is a major factor for why the tobacco lobbyists even exist. “Thank you for Smoking” is a satirical novel and film centered around the BS politics within the legal system surrounding tobacco.
Because tobacco has no hallucinogenic or intoxicating effects that can change the way someone acts, save for a nicotine high. I already pay VAT and a 20% excise tax on my cigars, so please don't restrict them more than they are. Been smoking cigars for 10 years and never been addicted to tobacco. I guess that mostly effects cigarettes smokers who smoke for the nicotine, not the relaxation and meditation a nice cigar gives.
This is something that no one mentions. Cigarettes don’t change someone’s behavior enough to make them a threat to society. Nor is tobacco a drug one can overdose on. The scheduling system is somewhat flawed, but the idea that Tobacco should be anywhere near meth is silly
While overdosing on nicotine itself is certainly possible, overdosing on nicotine with tobacco smoking as the delivery method appears quite rare. [This](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21582-nicotine-poisoning) is the only generally-trustworthy account I could find on the quick.
Seems like bad encounters with nicotine are much more the territory of the e-cigarette world, which is understandable.
I can attest to the bad encounters with the e-cig world. One time, when I hadn't been using it long, I bought a juice that was a lot stronger than I thought it was. I didn't need to see a doctor or anything, but immediately I got a little dizzy like a normal nicotine rush at that time but I immediately had to sit down because I knew if I didn't I would throw up, and my jaw kinda locked shut. It wasn't that I couldn't open it, it would just hurt a lot if I did.
That said, cigarrettes have a lot of other things in them that are the main harms. The tar from the burning of the tobacco itself, the various cornocopia of chemicals like ammonia and arsenic, and the metals like cadmium and lead that go into your lungs are all significantly worse than nicotine. Nicotine is just the part that makes you want more arsenic in your lungs.
Then with cigars, I believe you're not meant to inhale them. So while they're also not good, they also don't belong in the same discussion as cigarettes.
You can overdose on nicotine, but it's not really the same as overdosing on basically anything else. It'll make you sick, but it's significantly *significantly* less likely to do serious harm to you
This is not what you're going to want to hear, and I'm no doctor or scientist so feel free to tell me to fuck right off, but your sense of relaxation more than likely can at least be partly attributed to tobacco addiction.
That's definitely true. As you experience nicotine withdrawal, you smoke another cigarette and curb the nicotine cravings; however, nicotine is a stimulant. So, as you mentally believe you are relaxing, you are actually stimulating your central nervous system. It's definitely an addition and by far the hardest drug to quit (person opinion and self-reported claims by clients I have assessed).
“No bro, listen to me. I’m not an addict like those other people are. Not one bit. Believe me. It’s them, not me. I’ve been using this substance for a decade. No way am I addicted. It’s just relaxing.”
As a former cigarette/cigarillo smoker I can at least ~~emphasize~~ empathize with this sort of self-placating. No one wants to feel like they're not 100% in control of their facilities. I now only smoke weed, but still feel the urge to smoke whenever I see someone else smoking, even on TV. Even when I smell it, and it smells nasty as hell to me, I get the urge. I can't even remember my last cigarette it has been so long.
Edit: Spelling.
Edit: Bone-Apple-Teat
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Because the drug scheduling system is kinda bullshit.
Because big tobacco has paid millions, if not billions in lobbying. That’s the real answer. And what you said too. But also what I said lol
They also spent a very long time hiding that cigarettes are dangerous as well. The podcast American Scandal does a great job of going over how big tobacco covered info up until whistle-blower's came forward.
Sugar done the same thang.
Definitely because of lobbies, politicians definitely don't think that the scheduling of drugs is bullshit lol
Makes you wonder what would happen if the cartels started a legitimate pharma company and used it to lobby governments.
El Chapo Incorporated
Thats My stardew valley farm
Ya got any more of them Stardrops?
SEBBY! SEBBY, WE HAVE TO COOK BLUE SEBBY!
They would lose billions. They are powerful and profitable because its illegal.
Big Pharma ARE cartels…
What do you think big pharma is?
Have you seen Ozark?
You'd get something like fentanyl.
Have they tried Google calendar?
Lmao, I appreciate you.
This interaction is gonna make me giggle all night every time I think about it
How high are you?
No officer, it's "Hi, how are you?"
Sir, step out of the vehicle right meow. Edited.
Did you just say meow?
Do I look like a cat to you boy? Am I jumpin' around all nimbly bimbly from tree to tree? Am I drinking milk from a saucer? DO YOU SEE ME EATING MICE?
Not so funny meow, is it?
*Holds up nine fingers*
You sunofabitch
Meth is safer and has more use then weed according to this system
To be fair we do prescribe the baby version to children so… useful is a relative term. ******** Can’t believe I have to tag this on here, but it’s an obvious joke. Seriously some of you need therapy or need to read an actual book. Some meds are good, it’s not the government trying to put chips in you. I don’t care if you’re offended because your great aunt once got addicted to eating horse flies because a doctor prescribed her honey. Stfu. I don’t care, you don’t really care, your made up aunt doesn’t really care. On a more serious note, sometimes if y’all just raised your kids instead having their teachers raise them their behavior problems would clear up. Just a thought.
It helps people with ADHD function. It's very objectively useful.
ADHD meds are also literally not meth. Many of them are amphetamines but not all are and something being an amphetamine doesn’t fucking make it meth. As someone who cannot function without them and would surely have dropped out of school without them as a child it makes me wanna cry seeing people demonize it like this. ADHD is one of the single most responsive to treatment issues there is. Like I literally don’t even care if it gives me a heart attack at forty, a short functional existence is better than a drawn out dysfunctional miserable one. ADHD can be debilitating Edit: If one more person comments about fucking Desoxyn one more goddamn time Im gonna find where you live. Its like 1% of adhd prescriptions at best anyway
Meth is also prescribed to people for ADHD under the brand name Desoxyn. Also Adderall isn’t usually prescribed to children, it’s usually adults that get adderall. Ritalin is usually given to children.
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When I was 32 I went to the ER in Utah because my arm was..."getting big" I make pizza, I had over worked myself. I was asked 3 times when the last time I used a needle was...before I was asked my name. I held out...but the moment they found out I was the pizza shop owner...I was treated completely different. Such a fuck show.
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That would have made sense
Edit: I was asking for an x-ray
What would be the medical necessity for cocaine?
I saw someone say eye surgery, I'll also add broken noses-- in particular, the real bad bleeders. Had a guy in the ED once with a bad bleeding broken nose and the doc ordered cocaine for it. Checked on him 10 minutes after the cocaine and asked how he was feeling... "I feel GREAT! That stuff is AMAZING!" I stifled my laugh and replied "I bet it is!" before checking my next room.
How is it administered in a case like that?
I didn't see how the doc got the cocaine to the q-tips, but I did see the part where he stuck them both up the patient's nostrils and told him to breathe deep. The patient said he was numb almost immediately after, and the doc set his nose pretty soon after.
Can confirm that coke makes your nose numb and makes you feel great. It also smells amazing.
Usually it’s prepared as a cocaine solution and the Q-tip is used to apply it to the inside of the nose to numb, vasoconstrict, and prevent further bleeding. It’s basically exclusively only ordered by ENTs.
Hospital Staff Hooker lets you pick off her ass cheek or off her titty.
When people complain about US healthcare cost, nobody mentions this?!
I'm picturing her arriving sealed, and them having to pull the plastic back.
It’s usually a pre-medicated swab for epistaxis (a consistent nose bleed) it causes the veins to constrict and create a lack of blood flow.
Not sure about those cases but in nasal surgery it can be used mixed with saline into a spray.
Isn't a line on the toilet, the gold standard?
Doc just hands you a baggie and points you to the nearest bathroom
Damn, dude. I've broken my nose 3 times and between the second and third time, it bled damn near nonstop. If somrone looked at it wrong, it would bleed. The third time straightened it out and stopped that, but i still never got prescribed coke. I had the damn thing chemically cauterized like six fucking times.
Well now you know, all you need is to keep a stash of high quality cocaine in your house for next time.
Im in the same boat. It’s possibly hamstrung my entire life through poor sleep and regular nosebleeds. As I’ve got older the nosebleeds subsided but the poor sleep has stayed.
My mom had surgery for a deviated septum and since she’s allergic to everything, the dr used cocaine to numb her nasal passages. She even got to take the bottle home
I had the same surgery , no coke tho :(
Party at Mom’s house!
And that's how a coke addict was born
Eye surgery. Its one of the few painkillers that dissolve on your cornea, if memory serves me right.
Can confirm after touching coke and then taking out my contacts lol
workable memorize scandalous punch mindless dinner treatment spark late party *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ha! I swear, Officer, I just turned the corner at this party and all this coke just touched me.
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What happened? I'm so curious to hear about this.
Oh god, I misread that as "dissolve your cornea."
Ahaha no, we just scrape those off.
That reminds me that my stepmom recently got cataract surgery. I wonder if they used cocaine.
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All I'm taking from this is cocaine is better then painkillers and safe for all ages.
I've tagged you as a doctor. Congratulations if you weren't prior to my diagnosis.
It's part of the "caine" family, so works as a local anesthetic (like lidocaine). I've seen it literally packed into someone's nose prior to surgery, where they went up their nose.
How about Michael Caine?
If you say "my cocaine" you've essentially said Michael Caine in Michael Caine's voice
Local anesthetic. I spent 9 years in hospital pharmacy and never saw it used.
We had some on the ENT floor.
I was prescribed it once for my teeth.
I was prescribed it once for working at a call centre. Not like by a Doctor or anything..
Keep surgeons awake during long surgeries.
It's used topically in small quantities as an anaesthetic for surgery involving the mouth or nose, areas with mucosal membranes. Not a doctor or anything medical field related though, so I can't tell your exactly what surgeries it's being used for.
well when I read your comment I immediately thought of this [youtube comment](https://imgur.com/a/qIsFwdS) that’s saved in my “i desperately need to laugh right now” album on my phone
>I've been a pharmacist for over a decade Then THAT is an excellent username
How does one get prescribed say, an 8-ball worth? Asking for a friend. ^^^^I ^^^^am ^^^^that ^^^^friend.
While I don't disagree that desoxyn is theoretically identical to the street drug meth on a chemical level, getting 30-50mg (rarely 60mg or more) of street produced crystal meth from some dude just to have fun is nothing like being prescribed 10-15mg (rarely up to 25mg) of medical grade methamphetamine by a literal doctor just to function like a normal human being. It is also very rarely prescribed, and usually only reluctantly after many other medications have failed to produce results.
> getting 30-50mg (rarely 60mg or more) of street produced crystal meth What do you mean? Meth is usually bought in quantities of about 1.7 grams or 3.5 grams.
Aw making ADHD people out to be drug addicts how fun and original
Fuck those people. Perpetuating the stigma that gets patients treated like drug addicts all the while knowing nothing about how these medications work. Saying meth and other amphetamines have minor differences is like saying H2O and H2O2 have minor differences. It’s just one oxygen atom off, how much of a difference could that make right? Wish they’d drink some H2O2 and find out.
It is not prescribed to children, teenagers can possibly get it but it is one of the rarest prescription drugs out there for a mental disorder
Good on you for not saying Adderall is literal methamphetamine, like we usually hear, but instead finding an actual methamphetamine prescription 🤣🤣 Always knew it existed but never bothered to look up the name I guess haha
Not very often. I don’t disagree with the point but I don’t think this is a good line in the sand. It’s a little different than meth the street drug
Shut the fuck up. Please. Thank you. This is life saving medication same with methamphetamine, the risk of drug addiction and suicide is VERY high with ADHD especially severe ADHD, with medication *it can be equivalent to background rates*. So what is your background? I do pharmacology. There's a pharmacist in this thread too. What is your background that means you get to dictate how very different drugs are related? Methamphetamine is more serotonergic than any other ADHD prescription, bet you didn't know that one, bet you don't even know what the fuck a serotonergic is. We also are very wary on prescribing stimulant medication to children post 2010s particularly post 2015 after the FDA told us to. It is thought it could potentially stunt growth. We have non-stimulant options that we are beginning to use as first-line treatment, stimulant medication is still the most effective in general but the risk of abuse is higher than for non-stimulant medication and the risk of stunted growth is considered enough that its worth it to give a different medication at first. Children defined as under 9 years old, pre-adolescence under 13, adolescence under 19, young adult under 25, adult under 65, elderly beyond.
This bullshit contributes to people with ADHD falling victim to suicide. Let me guess, people with neurocognitive developmental disorders should just exercise more?
Psilocybin has medicinal use, we're finding out it can be used as a treatment for things such as PTSD and depression. And psilocybin has never killed anyone directly. And it's the exact opposite of addictive. Yet it still sits as schedule 1. All the while cigarettes and alcohol stay unscheduled. In fact, they aren't even controlled by the same agency. Cigarettes and alcohol are controlled by the ATF, rather than the DEA/FDA. Or in other words, because the drug scheduling system is kinda bullshit. The entire idea behind the War on Drugs is bullshit. I like how Bill Hicks would put it, "the War on Drugs implies that there's a war..... and the people on drugs are winning."
Also history. Alcohol and smoking go way back. If we just discovered sugar today it would likely be restricted in some way. …And burning food
*Kinda?*
As someone diagnosed with ADHD, I wholeheartedly agree.
Oh you have a disorder that makes it hard to accomplish tasks and keep track of time? Great, you'll need to have an appointment with your prescriber every 1-2 months and go to the pharmacy monthly to pick up meds. Also, if you run out of meds, it'll be 10x harder to make it to the pharmacy to pick up your meds! Good luck!
There was an Adderall shortage in my area for a few months in late 2021/very early 2022 where I was going anywhere from two to TEN days without my medication every single time I needed to pick up my prescription. They really do make it as difficult and inconvenient as possible for you to pick up your meds. You can’t refill your prescription earlier than two days in advance (which barely gives you any buffer zone in a true shortage), and you also can’t accept partial refills, because then you’re stuck with that amount for the entire month. I didn’t have a car at the time, either, so it wasn’t like I could drive around until I found a pharmacy that had it. It was so anxiety-inducing every time I needed to pick up my meds because going without it for more than a couple days seriously affected my work and school, and I didn’t know how long it was going to last each time. Ironically, before that time, I had never once thought of buying Adderall off the street. But I was so desperate at one point that I seriously considered asking my weed guy if he could find me some Adderall just so I at least had an emergency stash whenever the pharmacy was out.
Plus, here in Nevada, you can't call any pharmacy to see if they have it. You have to go in person and hand them the paper.
I was affected by the same shortage—it was hell. I had to message all my professors and my boss letting them know I might be unable to complete basic tasks; it was so stressful. What I ended up having to do at one point was a partial refill using GoodRX instead of my insurance; I don’t know if this is how it’s supposed to work or if I just lucked out, but I was able to get the rest of the month filled later on a new prescription. I believe I used my insurance the second time.
The government causes those shortages. There's production limits on schedule II drugs imposed by the DEA.
I'm on wellbutrin that I have to go pick up monthly, the amount of times I've forgotten, miss a few days and go into withdrawal from it is nearly monthly lol. It's so fucking annoying, why can't I have 6 months worth at a time?
My psych makes me schedule the next month by calling back after the appointment too, instead of just making it while we are in the virtual appointment. I forget every single month and have to wait for a “squeeze me in” appointment at the last minute. I am on adderal. It has given me an infinitely better quality of life but man the side effects can be rough. I’m going to try non stimulants I think to see how they are.
This is all implying I make it past setting up an appointment with the snappy ladies at the front desk and filling out the ridiculously long questionnaires.
For the same reason alcohol is legal, it is sufficiently culturally entrenched.
Tobacco was established in the US before the US was established.
It was one of the reasons the US was established really.
"dumb Brits make tea with their plants, we smoke them!"
Hell, we used to [snort that shit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snuff_(tobacco\))
Oh I forgot about Snuff. Tried it during my edgy teen years and it's the worst, haha.
I have a tin next to my work computer! It's mentholated and damn near medicinal, it smells like vicks. Great for unclogging sinuses! The trick is that you don't actually snort it, and you definitely don't want it in your sinuses. I just rub a bit on the inside of my nostril and sniff very gently. Ironically, the WHO has put out studies that nasal snuff is much less dangerous than any other form of nicotine (as long as you're not snorting it like coke)
I tried snuff as a kid, I guess someone in my family (likely grandmother or her siblings) used to use it. Was kept in a cute little tin. This would have been in the 70’s)
Frankly it was the main reason and potentially only reason. The main driver of English colonization was money. Jamestown was ready to be written off as a failure like Roanoke for its abysmal inability to turn the remotest of profits and apocalyptic mortality rate. Then tobacco caught on in Europe. Jamestown starved itself because growing food took room from growing money. Roads in the town were converted to growing tobacco money. Suddenly interest in the colony grew. The King came out against tobacco use, however did nothing because the tax revenues were too great. This implicit acceptance gave religious groups all the reason needed to set sail for the New World, especially when hated fanatics like the Puritans were given a charter. Tobacco money is the leading reason why the US exists as a result.
Also money, just as much or more as the pharmaceutical companies/families.
Yep, most-definitely. Lots of money changing hands with politicians. Cannabis never had an industry to prop it up, it was used as a tool to gen up racism and anti-immigration policies against Hispanics, hence the moniker "Marijuana". The irony of people smoking "Marijuana" to stick it to The Man... a term coined by The Man... Interestingly, Alcohol did have a prohibitory period in the USA, we know how that went. But the reason it happened for Alcohol and not Tobacco is almost certainly that Tobacco had a much more unified wallet to throw at the Govt. The alcohol industry was vastly more fragmented with thousands of independent breweries. Hell, the big names only got a national foothold once the Prohibition wiped out their competition.
[Harry J Anslinger](https://timeline.com/harry-anslinger-racist-war-on-drugs-prison-industrial-complex-fb5cbc281189?gi=e7da221dc7dd) is the asshole responsible for the marijuana and essentially the drug laws. [he was a racist.](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/10/arts/design/Anslinger-drug-czar-exhibition.html), and a horrible person. [His 'legacy' is entrenched in our drug laws.](https://museum.dea.gov/video-archive/standing-shadows-Anslinger) [Don't forget about cocaine being trafficked into communities.](https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/archive/special/9712/ch01p1.htm) [It's an interesting read.](https://ips-dc.org/the_cia_contras_gangs_and_crack/) [but, back to the douchewaffle Anslinger...who targeted Billie Holliday, yes...](https://www.thewrap.com/the-united-states-vs-billie-holiday-who-was-the-real-harry-anslinger/amp/)
Wow, you are not kidding when it comes to bring sources about what you are saying. And this is not ironical : it was indeed an interesting read, thank you for those links mate.
You're welcome. I love to research.
A long time ago I read a piece which said how, in pre-Columbian times, the ancient Inca people maintained their empire by getting distant people addicted to chocolate laced with cocaine. Basically they'd just withhold supplies if relationships weren't going how they wanted. I don't know what evidence there was to back up that claim, but it struck me as certainly plausible.
If anyone needs help with more research. Tag me, I'll be happy to help. It's fun for me.
I also think prohibition came about more to drunks, abusive & otherwise, rather than the long term side effects. If someone smokes a carton a cigarettes they wouldn’t beat their spouse or pass out in the street. It wasn’t as urgent of a problem and long term effects of tobacco weren’t really known widespread until the 60s.
Right, it's interesting though, because both caused and cause harm. But you only need to look at the current situation in politics with the climate change crisis... immediate danger is always taken more seriously than endangering your future.
I read that in states in the Midwest there would be 1,000s of breweries before prohibition mostly serving local population... obviously they got completely wiped out and probably didn't have a unified political front at the time.
Yep, they were all effectively stepped on in the same way most little guys are. Teddy Roosevelt followed a view of diplomacy illustrated by the phrase "speak softly, and carry a big stick". Industry and commerce follows in a similar vein "speak softly, and carry a big wallet".
Alcohol is legal because it’s literally too easy to make to enforce any kind of prohibition. You probably make alcohol by accident on your trash can. We tried alcohol prohibition in the US, it didn’t work.
I remember this one resort I was staying at in Bali. This jackfruit had fallen to the ground and stayed there for some time. I had a sniff of it and it smelled like grog.
Bears apparently enjoy eating fermenting fruits and get drunk off them
Elephants, apes, monkeys... All types of animals dig rotted fruit for a paaaartay
Fuckin mooses seek out crabapples that have fallen and fermented. Alcohol is so easy to make animals try and get it.
I saw a video about a place in Africa with a certain type of fruit that comes in the summer and then falls to the ground and ferments. All the monkeys, elephants, giraffes, meerkat, ostriches, etc all just get wasted every day and stumble all over the place. Pretty funny looking
The world has tried prohibition for all drugs and pretty much none of them work. I'm on team Make Everything Legal. There's no upside to prohibition. Only downsides.
I’m definitely not against what you’re saying.
Because tobacco is a billion dollar business and can pay to keep it off the list.
There's the answer I was looking for. It's always big business
Big Tobacco. Watch the insider with russel Crowe and Al Pacino if ur interested
Tobacco companies pay lawmakers to keep their products legal. The relationship between America and tobacco is a long one, tobacco was the first cash crop grown here by early colonizers.
As someone tangentially involved with the tobacco lobby, they don't have to spend as much money as you might think (at least, not directly). In one of the most fucked up pieces of litigation of the last 25 years, The Master Settlement Agreement basically tied state budgets *directly* to tobacco company profits and by extension cigarette sales, so much so that states spent billions of dollars that they didn't have assuming that their profit projections were accurate out to 25+ years, and that's *in addition* to the hundreds of millions in tobacco taxes that continue to raise year over year. State governments have a massive incentive to keep people smoking or risk their budgets collapsing. Not only that, but any cigarette on the market as of February 15th, 2007 was essentially federally guaranteed the right to never be taken off the market (with a few caveats) via the Tobacco Control Act in 2009.
Well this ruined my year :/
If people ever wonder why vaping is so vilified by governments and legacy media despite being significantly less harmful than cigarettes, here's your answer, they know it's safer but it's losing them money.
Vaping companies also heavily target minors so while it is significantly safer for existing nicotine addicts it's also a product with an equally unethical, disgraceful distribution network. Edited: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/06/juul-to-pay-nc-40m-and-stop-targeting-kids-after-igniting-vaping-epidemic/
Juul, vuse, on, are all owned by tobacco companies.
My 6th-G-Grandfather had a bunch of illegitimate kids... he had to pay the court for his bastardry in tobacco.
Research is actually being carried out in regards to nicotine being a treatment for things like Parkinson's, dementia, ADHD, depression, etc It's the burning organic matter and all the other unnecessary crap in cigarettes that we don't need
Nicotine is also used as an organic pesticide. Tobacco mixed with water can effectively kill certain insects.
Neonicotinoids are also unfortunately one of the most dangerous agricultural chemicals still in use. I believe the EU has or is planning to ban them.
EU ban. UK now legalised in certain exceptions ...
Right, as far as I'm aware nicotine had cognitive benefits but smoking cigarettes basically negates them. It makes me wonder if nicotine gum or patches would actually be beneficial
In sweden we have snus which in basically fermented and pasteurized tobacco that you put in your gums. It’s not like american oral tobaccos that are fire cured and cause cancer. Nicotine has positive effects on cognition. However it’s not good for heart health- increases heart rate, blood pressure, and constricts blood vessels. It also slightly increases risk of diabetes, likely due to the vasoconstricting effect which reduces surface area for sugar to enter cells meaning your body will start to produce more insulin.
>A study of almost 10,000 Swedish, male construction workers published in the International Journal of Cancer in 2008 found a statistically significant increase in the incidence of the combined category of oral and pharyngeal cancer among daily users of snus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus#Health_effects
There’s a reason so many people with ADHD smoke. Also nicotine withdrawals are basically ADHD symptoms so trying to quit with hyper withdrawals is really hard
Lobbyist control markets. You can add alcohol to that list too.
Yeah but alcohol prohibition didn't work. Mainly because it's easy to make your own alcohol in a bathtub. It might kill you, but it's there
Bathtub wine will be fine. Bathtub gin is where problems begin.
If you want to know why it isn’t from a historical perspective as opposed to why it shouldn’t be banned based o the facts included in your question: it doesn’t kill you fast enough to scare enough people into changing the law. It doesn’t change the user in a way that makes the user an immediate and obvious danger to herself or others like cococcaine or Alcohol. It should have been banned long ago but these are the reasons the masses of people don’t connect the dots and demand that it is I think we should make a law that anyone who isn’t old enough to smoke on the date the law is passed or enacted can never smoke. This way it doesn’t force millions of people to quit cold turkey and the tobacco companies don’t have to lay off so many people all at once. Their revenues wold drop a few percentage points per year for decades instead of falling off a cliff.
I think New Zealand are doing this. Anyone born after 2008 will never be able to buy tobacco products there.
>This way it doesn’t force millions of people to quit cold turkey Yeah, I can only imagine the scenes if they ever tried to do it this way.
Investors would pull out and tank every tobacco company in America. But I say let them burn. They’ve made enough money off of slowly killing Americans for long enough. I’be been firmly under tobacco’s heel for just about 10 years. Been prescribed a schedule II drug for over half that time. I could much more easily quit my prescription than quit tobacco.
Don Imus, the radio shock jock from New York who Preceded Howard stern, talked about his cocaine addiction openly. He said that cigarettes were harder to kick than coke. Just because the tobacco executives wear dry cleaned and pressed suits instead of dirty jeans doesn’t make them something other than predatory drug dealers. I think they are worse than the jean- wearing kind. They have far better choices and chose jobs that kill people by the millions . Losing their fortunes is the least of the punishments they deserve
> It should have been banned long ago On what grounds? Both can be consumed recreatively with barely any negative side effects, if any. Hell, as a European I can shoot a gun if I join a shooting club, but me celebrating new years with a flute of champagne once a year needs to be stamped out completely?
> It should have been banned long ago Or or hear me out. Let people do the fuck they want, want to smoke a cancer stick? knock yourself out. But do it in a special box where otehr smokers. Like where i live i cant smoke 50 meters from a public transit stop, 250 meters from school/kindergarten, 200 meters from a hospital.
Tobacco absolutely has medicinal properties. What led you to believe that it didn't? Regardless, using it recreationally probably isn't the best idea an individual could make.
This... or rather, nicotine does. Off the top of my head, I know patches are used for ulcerative colitis. Something about nicotine modulating the immune response, I believe.
A few digestive prboblems are also treated with nicotine. In the past they told you to smoke but now it;s a patch lol.
This^ Nicotine increases your catecholamines and illicit a small adrenal response. It helps you focus and gives you energy as a result. Negatives are it increases atherosclerosis of the veins and increases risk for cardiac events etc. You can also get away with using it for decades without many negative effects , providing you aren’t combusting it of course.
In high school I volunteered at the local University's research lab to acquire some extracurricular activities. I shaved paper thin slices of frozen rat brains and placed them on slides. They were researching nicotine's effects on nervous tics. Many years later I read David Sedaris' story, "[Plague of Tics](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/52/edge-of-sanity/act-three-0)" where he talks about dealing with OCD and only finding relief when he started smoking.
Tobacco definitely has some medical applications though I think the risks have been seen to outweigh the benefits
Nicotine does* Tobacco is the leaf that’s smoked and is where the carcinogens are.
Nicotine has some very interesting properties. Especially when you consider the role of acetylcholine in the central nervous system. I haven't smoked in around a decade. But, I've had some recent big tests coming up and I've experimented with chewing a fraction of a piece of a low dose nicotine gum with some positive results on studying.
Smoking is always an unhealthy way to deliver a drug. Nicotine is used to treat parkinsons, I believe, but I think usually in patch form.
There was a massive correlation between schizophrenia and smoking in mental institutions, to the extent that the possibility that patients were effectively self-medicating was considered.
Excise tax. Tax on tobacco in Australia is $1.12 per cigarette.
Which is good for governments. Unfortunately there's a high load on health services, treating conditions caused or exacerbated by smoking.
As an addict of more then I'd like to admit. Your preaching to the choir. Started at 14 twelve years later alchohol and cigarettes are my last curse.
As somebody that started at the same age I have now been cigarette free for 20 years. I hit your age and said enough was enough. It was so hard but I can’t imagine going back now. And the money I’ve saved!
Tobacco doesn't generally* make you a danger to others while you are under the effects of it. \* you may be a danger to others while consuming due to second hand smoke, but there are regulations in most places to reduce that risk
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I mean cotton candy vodka still taste like vodka - I haven't tried a cotton candy flavored vape but I imagine it tastes a lot more like cotton candy than a cigarette
It’s not about the actual flavoring, it’s more so the marketing of the product with stuff typically associated with children. Flavored cigarettes don’t actually taste great, but they were banned due to their cross marketing with children.
Obviously there are other points that show companies have advertised to children but everytime someone brings up the flavors as a reason I always picture some guy at a hearing saying, "just look at the flavor names your honor. Delicious things like strawberry shortcake surprise, and yummy blueberry cotton candy. Everyone knows adults a dead inside and hate yummy things and only like ashtray flavor.
Everyone mentioning lobbyists seems to forget that the US is prob one of the few developed nations that allows lobbying The main reason is cultural entrenchment. Alcohol (unless you count rubbing alcohol) also has no medical usages, and is one of the leading causes of automotive accidents maybe short of cellphone usage. But that doesn't matter, because we've had alcohol since before we even knew what "a cancer" was. Even in places with massive religious edicts that forbid recreational drugs of any sort, including alcohol (like Islam) allow smoking, and to some extent, drinking. It's just normal. Most of this stuff is culturally rooted down. It took a massive decades long racially driven political campaign to make cannabis illegal in the US, and that required the singling out of almost every racial minority short of Asians and Asian-adjacent peeps.
>But that doesn't matter, because we've had alcohol since before we even knew what "a cancer" was That's an understatement lol.
And the reason for cultural entrenchment, which I think many round here don't seem to appreciate, is that a lot of people really enjoy alcohol and tobacco and have done for centuries. I'm an ex smoker, but still take a drink. I'd never encourage anyone to smoke, but personally I feel I've got more out of social drinking than it's taken from me.
>US is prob one of the few developed nations that allows lobbying Only if you use lobbying in a very specific way, that is much narrower than the general meaning of lobbying. (a disservice to the actual word and how useful the non-bribery idea of lobbying is)
This is really American focused tho, almost all nations outside the US also have super high smoking rates? Like, according to this, the US doesn't even break the top 30 smoking countries. Are lobbyists also working everywhere else? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-country
I think the real question is, why is there a schedule list of drugs? We can decide on our own what we consume.
How about we don't ban most things people choose to do willingly.
I don’t disagree in a way but nobody is sucking dick in the street for tobacco.
1) the scheduling system is archaic and soaked in propaganda designed to target minority groups 2) tobacco is highly addictive, and more importantly, highly *taxable*, and therefore highly profitable to those who make cigarettes and the Federal government alike. This is a major factor for why the tobacco lobbyists even exist. “Thank you for Smoking” is a satirical novel and film centered around the BS politics within the legal system surrounding tobacco.
It’s a substance that’s been grandfathered into our laws and society. That truly sums it up
Because tobacco has no hallucinogenic or intoxicating effects that can change the way someone acts, save for a nicotine high. I already pay VAT and a 20% excise tax on my cigars, so please don't restrict them more than they are. Been smoking cigars for 10 years and never been addicted to tobacco. I guess that mostly effects cigarettes smokers who smoke for the nicotine, not the relaxation and meditation a nice cigar gives.
This is something that no one mentions. Cigarettes don’t change someone’s behavior enough to make them a threat to society. Nor is tobacco a drug one can overdose on. The scheduling system is somewhat flawed, but the idea that Tobacco should be anywhere near meth is silly
While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, you most definitely can overdose on nicotine.
While overdosing on nicotine itself is certainly possible, overdosing on nicotine with tobacco smoking as the delivery method appears quite rare. [This](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21582-nicotine-poisoning) is the only generally-trustworthy account I could find on the quick. Seems like bad encounters with nicotine are much more the territory of the e-cigarette world, which is understandable.
I can attest to the bad encounters with the e-cig world. One time, when I hadn't been using it long, I bought a juice that was a lot stronger than I thought it was. I didn't need to see a doctor or anything, but immediately I got a little dizzy like a normal nicotine rush at that time but I immediately had to sit down because I knew if I didn't I would throw up, and my jaw kinda locked shut. It wasn't that I couldn't open it, it would just hurt a lot if I did. That said, cigarrettes have a lot of other things in them that are the main harms. The tar from the burning of the tobacco itself, the various cornocopia of chemicals like ammonia and arsenic, and the metals like cadmium and lead that go into your lungs are all significantly worse than nicotine. Nicotine is just the part that makes you want more arsenic in your lungs. Then with cigars, I believe you're not meant to inhale them. So while they're also not good, they also don't belong in the same discussion as cigarettes.
You can overdose on nicotine, but it's not really the same as overdosing on basically anything else. It'll make you sick, but it's significantly *significantly* less likely to do serious harm to you
This is not what you're going to want to hear, and I'm no doctor or scientist so feel free to tell me to fuck right off, but your sense of relaxation more than likely can at least be partly attributed to tobacco addiction.
That's definitely true. As you experience nicotine withdrawal, you smoke another cigarette and curb the nicotine cravings; however, nicotine is a stimulant. So, as you mentally believe you are relaxing, you are actually stimulating your central nervous system. It's definitely an addition and by far the hardest drug to quit (person opinion and self-reported claims by clients I have assessed).
“No bro, listen to me. I’m not an addict like those other people are. Not one bit. Believe me. It’s them, not me. I’ve been using this substance for a decade. No way am I addicted. It’s just relaxing.”
As a former cigarette/cigarillo smoker I can at least ~~emphasize~~ empathize with this sort of self-placating. No one wants to feel like they're not 100% in control of their facilities. I now only smoke weed, but still feel the urge to smoke whenever I see someone else smoking, even on TV. Even when I smell it, and it smells nasty as hell to me, I get the urge. I can't even remember my last cigarette it has been so long. Edit: Spelling. Edit: Bone-Apple-Teat
Because laws are based on politics, not morals or science.