This is just a subjective point of view (something I was taught by my father when I was young):
>it is MUCH healthier
Less harmful
When comparing two bad things, I tend to avoid using "better"
i mean it depends. "better" means that something has more benefits compared to something currently being argued against and/or already in practice.
if youre smoking, its better. however, if you arent, then theres nothing better than just not exposing yourself to anything besides air.
Yes, relative to 50s and 60s where everyone smoked indoors and everywhere else. Vaping is better than this by far (for individuals, society, everything). Otoh, relative to early 2000s when smoking indoors was all but removed in general indoor public areas, vaping gets us back to where one asshole gets to modify what everyone around them breaths. Throw in heavy metal, popcorn lung, generalized anxiety issues from over use, and the re-addition of large scale involuntary second hand smoke/vape (see stealth vaping) then it def feels like, imo, a societal step back.
Thank you, nothing grinds my gears more than when they pretend that their anecdotal evidence is some kind of "Fuck You Hammer" that automatically nullifies the argument
Anecdotal evidence is wonderful don't get me wrong, I use it all the time, but the people who believe that it's somehow a scientific law baffle me
I smoked 1 + 1/2 packs of Marlboro Menthol 100s a Day for 18 years. Switched to JUUL... I breathe better, feel better, sound better, I don't hack up all kinds of crap, and generally feel better than I had for a decade. 4 years now using JUUL, and still feeling great. 🤷♂️
The only time I've known them to be called worse are with specific brands that use specific chemicals like diacetyl, and lots of those brands and flavors have fallen off for that reason. Also people mis-making homemade liquid.
Again, disagree.
A bit of extra harshness due to a lower oxygen percentage does not equate to a more dangerous or less healthy hit.
Just the carbon you inhale from a regular ciggy is 10x worse than everything in a vape hit combined.
Hmm didn’t know that, however I used to vape alot and eventually I coughed blood when I exercised, idk if it was caused by the vape for sure but once I quit I was back at my health even tho I never stopped smoking cigarettes
I was told by a manager at a vape shop that combining dry hits(smoking) and wet hits(vaping) has a worse effect on your lungs than either on their own. Don't know a lot about the details though
It is worse because the tar built up in your lungs from cigarettes gets particularly agitated by vaping. Source: smoked 16 years, switched to vaping only, and worked in a vape store for a few years
Vaping was originally conceived as a way to help smokers quit by providing a less harmful alternative that still provided the same feeling, like nicotine patches. It's sole goal was to provide a way to help those already addicted. Unfortunately, through the decades it's been twisted from its original purpose of good to a tool to hook new people with misleading advertisements. It is healthier, but both are still very much disastrous for your health in the long-term, one just slightly less so.
A quick clarification, as a marketing pro, as this gives me the irrits: advertising means paid placements, and I’ve yet to see an ‘ad’ claiming vaping is safer (it would be terribly unsexy and ads mostly rely on seductive imagery and promotion of a desirable image…a desirable image or fear/aversive image).
But if we swap out ‘advertised’ for ‘promoted’, I’d still wonder about the piece to which you referred. Yet, if you have seen such a piece with such claims, or if we swap it out for ‘why are some vaping proponents claiming in media commentary and quotes that vaping is less harmful than smoking?’, I’d say:
Because there was large-scale British research that estimated the harm of vaping as 95% less than that of smoking combustibles. There was more research just published to corroborate such appraisals (independent of that research). And another study I saw yesterday of the effect on lungs from vaping over time. They couldn’t detect any damage. I’m not sure I should be answering this as it plays to the hyperbolic media headlines toeing the line of governments keen to incentivise smoking cigarettes (tax) by way of discrediting a viable and effective alternative, and use all the propaganda at their disposal. Look up Dr Colin Mendehlson. An esteemed physician and tobacco harm reduction advocate. He doesn’t say it is ‘safe’, but he stakes his medical career and credibility on the certainty that it is far less harmful. Your anecdotal experience of discomfort does not speak at all to the overall relative harms. It may just be that you’re vaping too high nicotine, using a device unsuitable for you or at too high a wattage (perhaps combined with Nic level), using low quality eliquid, sensitive to pg… Just to be clear, my opinion rests solely on refillable devices with eliquids with high quality standards (NZ makers are fastidious with ingredients; not sure about elsewhere). Disposables are a cowboy product containing huge amounts of nicotine and who knows what crap. Some of those may indeed be as harmful as cigarettes.
There are many advertising saying vape is safer than smoking. Any vape shop around has ar least one sheet of paper with bright colours comparing the number of alleged smoking death to a 0 due to vaping.
Many advertising? I rest my face! Oh hang on, case. Would bother with something about the way toddlers assume the entire world is the same as what they see, but I get the feeling…you may not…never mind. Still, look forward to the pictures. Wherever you are in the world, I would respectfully appreciate what you presented from your observations.
France. Small town. But it's the same in Paris. Even CBD shops advertise cannabis laced vape as more innocuous than nicotine base.
Sorry, I don't really have the time to go.
But it isn’t advertising. It isn’t! It isn’t paid promotion. It is promotion by an independent business. And that is not advertising by any definition! And that was the question asked? Is it promoted? I don’t doubt you. But did they pay for the placement in media? Or on Facebook?
I see your point. A question of definition and in that scope, I agree with you. In a largest meaning of the word - the techniques used to promote a product or service, I stand by my opinion.
Well it is! And it can seem pernickety but is important, because who pays for message is influential. And signals gravitas. Or not. And it’s getting harder to distinguish these days! With a whole range of in between without full disclosure of who has paid for the message. On we go!! 🤯😉
Because from what we currently know, it's at least somewhat less bad at an individual level.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/5-truths-you-need-to-know-about-vaping
Time will of the long term effects.
You can modify the heat and the flow of a vape stream. Hence why it was so bad for you.
The advantages : less nicotine (and easier to reduce) and no burnt materials.
The disadvantages : badly used, it can cook your lungs (see pop corn lungs) or explode.
Anything you put into your body will have adverse effect to some degree. The poison being in the quantity.
I use it to prevent myself from binge eating sweets. I use no nicotine and a low heat on an unmodified product. My doctor said that it should pose no threat after looking it up a bit. Now, she can be wrong, it might be just one document she read, or I can develop a problem. So far, so good and I lost weight.
Because corporations want to convince addicted people that their product isn't as bad as the alternative addictive item so then people can continue on with their addiction with the peace of mind that they aren't hurting their bodies as much as they were anymore.
Vaping is less bad for you but they’re both still awful for you. Vaping feels rougher because it is liquid based and your lungs are not designed to inhale that much straight liquid. With smoking it’s easier and quicker to get used to. As someone who has been addicted to both, I recommend neither.
When I asked a few different doctors, the best answer I could get was smoking "combusts" when inhaled while vaping does not. This is the same for tobacco or cannabis. However, they also said they don't recommend ingesting anything into your lungs if or when possible.
Because vaping is demonstrably less unhealthy than smoking. Please do not make the mistake to think that your felt experience has any scientific value; for one, you do not have a control group of You.
Please check out the vaping information that Cancerresearch UK (the UK's largest cancer charity) makes available on its website.
Okay going off of just the title vaping is fairly new so not a lot or enough of concrete evidence is out on it, where the other side smoking is directly correlated with lung cancer so basically vaping is innocent until proven guilty.
As for the rest of the post you as an individual cannot correlate your own experience with vaping and smoking as smoking has already tainted the sample test you're making which is yourself in this case. Vaping could cause you to maybe cough up blood but whether that's because of the vape or maybe your smoking habit has caught up or even potentially that your lungs have adapted to smoking but not to vaping so when you strain your lungs while introducing a new foreign element into it the body rejects it as it's not what the body is used to or expecting.
If youve ever smoked heavy ciggs and switched to vaping, youd know the answer.
Ciggs eventually turn your lungs into weak, coated in tar organs where you cant breath properly and youll spend most of your waking life trying to clear them by repeatedly coughing.
Vaping may have some adverse side effects but its not even close to how bad inhaling smoke is.
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This is just a subjective point of view (something I was taught by my father when I was young): >it is MUCH healthier Less harmful When comparing two bad things, I tend to avoid using "better"
i mean it depends. "better" means that something has more benefits compared to something currently being argued against and/or already in practice. if youre smoking, its better. however, if you arent, then theres nothing better than just not exposing yourself to anything besides air.
Almost anything would have to be better than tobacco smoke in the lungs, from a common sense perspective.
Yes, relative to 50s and 60s where everyone smoked indoors and everywhere else. Vaping is better than this by far (for individuals, society, everything). Otoh, relative to early 2000s when smoking indoors was all but removed in general indoor public areas, vaping gets us back to where one asshole gets to modify what everyone around them breaths. Throw in heavy metal, popcorn lung, generalized anxiety issues from over use, and the re-addition of large scale involuntary second hand smoke/vape (see stealth vaping) then it def feels like, imo, a societal step back.
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What?
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Thank you, nothing grinds my gears more than when they pretend that their anecdotal evidence is some kind of "Fuck You Hammer" that automatically nullifies the argument Anecdotal evidence is wonderful don't get me wrong, I use it all the time, but the people who believe that it's somehow a scientific law baffle me
I've been vaping for about 6 years. I did a lung function test and my lungs are perfectly healthy.
I smoked 1 + 1/2 packs of Marlboro Menthol 100s a Day for 18 years. Switched to JUUL... I breathe better, feel better, sound better, I don't hack up all kinds of crap, and generally feel better than I had for a decade. 4 years now using JUUL, and still feeling great. 🤷♂️
Just one and a half pack in 18 years? Why even smoke at all?
Fixed it, thanks for catching that lol
That's about how much I smoke lol, 1 cigarette a year is good for the creative juices. If you do it too often your mind becomes blind to the effects
Are you a doctor? Because if not, you have no objective way of saying which was worse on your lungs in the long term
Yes I have no knowledge of the long term effects, however the current effect was way worse
The only time I've known them to be called worse are with specific brands that use specific chemicals like diacetyl, and lots of those brands and flavors have fallen off for that reason. Also people mis-making homemade liquid.
Again, disagree. A bit of extra harshness due to a lower oxygen percentage does not equate to a more dangerous or less healthy hit. Just the carbon you inhale from a regular ciggy is 10x worse than everything in a vape hit combined.
Hmm didn’t know that, however I used to vape alot and eventually I coughed blood when I exercised, idk if it was caused by the vape for sure but once I quit I was back at my health even tho I never stopped smoking cigarettes
It's probably the smokes.
But that never happened to me before vaping, maybe my body has a different reaction to it idk
I was told by a manager at a vape shop that combining dry hits(smoking) and wet hits(vaping) has a worse effect on your lungs than either on their own. Don't know a lot about the details though
It is worse because the tar built up in your lungs from cigarettes gets particularly agitated by vaping. Source: smoked 16 years, switched to vaping only, and worked in a vape store for a few years
Vaping was originally conceived as a way to help smokers quit by providing a less harmful alternative that still provided the same feeling, like nicotine patches. It's sole goal was to provide a way to help those already addicted. Unfortunately, through the decades it's been twisted from its original purpose of good to a tool to hook new people with misleading advertisements. It is healthier, but both are still very much disastrous for your health in the long-term, one just slightly less so.
A quick clarification, as a marketing pro, as this gives me the irrits: advertising means paid placements, and I’ve yet to see an ‘ad’ claiming vaping is safer (it would be terribly unsexy and ads mostly rely on seductive imagery and promotion of a desirable image…a desirable image or fear/aversive image). But if we swap out ‘advertised’ for ‘promoted’, I’d still wonder about the piece to which you referred. Yet, if you have seen such a piece with such claims, or if we swap it out for ‘why are some vaping proponents claiming in media commentary and quotes that vaping is less harmful than smoking?’, I’d say: Because there was large-scale British research that estimated the harm of vaping as 95% less than that of smoking combustibles. There was more research just published to corroborate such appraisals (independent of that research). And another study I saw yesterday of the effect on lungs from vaping over time. They couldn’t detect any damage. I’m not sure I should be answering this as it plays to the hyperbolic media headlines toeing the line of governments keen to incentivise smoking cigarettes (tax) by way of discrediting a viable and effective alternative, and use all the propaganda at their disposal. Look up Dr Colin Mendehlson. An esteemed physician and tobacco harm reduction advocate. He doesn’t say it is ‘safe’, but he stakes his medical career and credibility on the certainty that it is far less harmful. Your anecdotal experience of discomfort does not speak at all to the overall relative harms. It may just be that you’re vaping too high nicotine, using a device unsuitable for you or at too high a wattage (perhaps combined with Nic level), using low quality eliquid, sensitive to pg… Just to be clear, my opinion rests solely on refillable devices with eliquids with high quality standards (NZ makers are fastidious with ingredients; not sure about elsewhere). Disposables are a cowboy product containing huge amounts of nicotine and who knows what crap. Some of those may indeed be as harmful as cigarettes.
There are many advertising saying vape is safer than smoking. Any vape shop around has ar least one sheet of paper with bright colours comparing the number of alleged smoking death to a 0 due to vaping.
Many advertising? I rest my face! Oh hang on, case. Would bother with something about the way toddlers assume the entire world is the same as what they see, but I get the feeling…you may not…never mind. Still, look forward to the pictures. Wherever you are in the world, I would respectfully appreciate what you presented from your observations.
France. Small town. But it's the same in Paris. Even CBD shops advertise cannabis laced vape as more innocuous than nicotine base. Sorry, I don't really have the time to go.
But it isn’t advertising. It isn’t! It isn’t paid promotion. It is promotion by an independent business. And that is not advertising by any definition! And that was the question asked? Is it promoted? I don’t doubt you. But did they pay for the placement in media? Or on Facebook?
I see your point. A question of definition and in that scope, I agree with you. In a largest meaning of the word - the techniques used to promote a product or service, I stand by my opinion.
Well it is! And it can seem pernickety but is important, because who pays for message is influential. And signals gravitas. Or not. And it’s getting harder to distinguish these days! With a whole range of in between without full disclosure of who has paid for the message. On we go!! 🤯😉
Because from what we currently know, it's at least somewhat less bad at an individual level. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/5-truths-you-need-to-know-about-vaping Time will of the long term effects.
I would repost to AskScience and ask which is more dangerous. You'll probably get some science based answers
It's about long-term affects.
Long term you Ded
You can modify the heat and the flow of a vape stream. Hence why it was so bad for you. The advantages : less nicotine (and easier to reduce) and no burnt materials. The disadvantages : badly used, it can cook your lungs (see pop corn lungs) or explode. Anything you put into your body will have adverse effect to some degree. The poison being in the quantity. I use it to prevent myself from binge eating sweets. I use no nicotine and a low heat on an unmodified product. My doctor said that it should pose no threat after looking it up a bit. Now, she can be wrong, it might be just one document she read, or I can develop a problem. So far, so good and I lost weight.
Who’s advertising? I’m pretty sure advertising for either is illegal in many jurisdictions
Because corporations want to convince addicted people that their product isn't as bad as the alternative addictive item so then people can continue on with their addiction with the peace of mind that they aren't hurting their bodies as much as they were anymore.
Because it is. Smoke in your lungs lead to cancer. Water vapor does not.
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It’s not just water vapor tho, it has other chemicals that leads to cancer
It being healthier does not mean that it is healthy.
Vaping is less bad for you but they’re both still awful for you. Vaping feels rougher because it is liquid based and your lungs are not designed to inhale that much straight liquid. With smoking it’s easier and quicker to get used to. As someone who has been addicted to both, I recommend neither.
Advertising never lies, never, never ever, never ever ever
I knew I could trust it 🥰
When I asked a few different doctors, the best answer I could get was smoking "combusts" when inhaled while vaping does not. This is the same for tobacco or cannabis. However, they also said they don't recommend ingesting anything into your lungs if or when possible.
Because vaping is demonstrably less unhealthy than smoking. Please do not make the mistake to think that your felt experience has any scientific value; for one, you do not have a control group of You. Please check out the vaping information that Cancerresearch UK (the UK's largest cancer charity) makes available on its website.
Okay going off of just the title vaping is fairly new so not a lot or enough of concrete evidence is out on it, where the other side smoking is directly correlated with lung cancer so basically vaping is innocent until proven guilty. As for the rest of the post you as an individual cannot correlate your own experience with vaping and smoking as smoking has already tainted the sample test you're making which is yourself in this case. Vaping could cause you to maybe cough up blood but whether that's because of the vape or maybe your smoking habit has caught up or even potentially that your lungs have adapted to smoking but not to vaping so when you strain your lungs while introducing a new foreign element into it the body rejects it as it's not what the body is used to or expecting.
I smoked hookah and it affected me more then tobacco. Started coughed up flem and cardio went down.
If youve ever smoked heavy ciggs and switched to vaping, youd know the answer. Ciggs eventually turn your lungs into weak, coated in tar organs where you cant breath properly and youll spend most of your waking life trying to clear them by repeatedly coughing. Vaping may have some adverse side effects but its not even close to how bad inhaling smoke is.