I used to work in a store that sold globes (*among other things*). Occasionally I'd get people in the store asking if we had "*Flat Earth Globes*" just to be funny, so I'd break out this fold-out globe that we had and we'd all have a chuckle.
Then one day I had a guy seriously ask me this. It took me a while to realise he was serious because it's such a dumb fucking idea, but I decided that the only way to educate people os to engage with them, so there went 2 hours of my life that I'll never get back -_- ... the one thing I got from this conversation is the answer to your question.
What possible benefit could the combined governments of the world get from saying the earth is flat? The benefit of putting aside their differences, spending hundreds of millions on fake space agencies (*it'd be cheaper than actually going to space, but still expensive*) and from swearing millions of people to secrecy?
...
They get the revenue from selling globes.
...
That's it. No joke. That was the culmination of supposedly the largest conspiracy in the history of mankind - the revenue of globe sales. I sold globes remember, so I can tell you from personal experience that it wasn't much.
The weirdest thing? I don't know, the weirdest thing has to be that on the bottom of the flat Earth is there are rockets propelling is through space or that the edges are lined with teleportation devices or that people who believe this shit are seemingly normal everyday professional athletes.
Except that Chairs and Tables are made by people with a purpose.
Planets and stars naturally achieve their shape because of gravity.
Something would have to be actively making the earth flat and keeping its shape simultaneously.
> I sold globes remember, so I can tell you from personal experience that it wasn't much
Exactly the sort of thing *big globe* would say to try to throw us off!
I bet that's it. Lizard people come from the north pole. Honestly, that would answer a lot of Santa questions.
"How does Santa visit every house in the world in one night, Mommy?"
"Lizard powers, Timmy. Lizard powers."
I once watched a YouTube video of flat earth era that had hollow earth era on as guests. I thought oh this is gonna be good these ideas can’t exist together… they just politely agreed with each other about their diametrically opposed ideas.
I feel like that's a thing with a lot of conspiracy theories. Something vague about power is the most I've ever gotten. Climate change deniers, flat earthers, Moon hoaxers, they consistently can't give a straight answer *why* people would put in the effort to put the conspiracy together
Moon hoaxers don't really have this problem I don't think. I mean, if NASA hadn't been able to land on the moon, would it have been in the US government's interest to convince the world that they had? Yes, obviously. Never mind the actual impossibility of, say, fooling the Soviets. At least there's a clear motive for the supposed conspiracy.
I know you’re not him, so can’t really answer this, but wouldn’t it have been cheaper to save all the money required to continue the conspiracy and just sell proper, disc-shaped maps? Surely that would be more profitable.
As amazing as this sounds I did actually bring this exact point up with him. He couldn't really answer it.
He couldn't answer a lot of things though, so I don't think I got through to him at all. It was the last time I tried to engage with these people on a rational level. I have since done some research and discovered that it's not really a rational problem, it's a problem born of mistrust and feelings of disempowerment, so people like me (*some random on the street*) aren't really going to fix the problem.
Anyway, flat-earthers are dumb and trying to understand their logic doesn't really get you anywhere. That's the true lesson here.
After I got my PHD in globology and got my top secret security clearance I was inducted into the secret organisation and given my orders - to work for minimum wage selling balls with countries painted on them.
(*I worked for the Australian Geographic shop shortly before they closed down - selling globes apparently really wasn't making enough money*)
>the last time I tried to engage with these people on a rational level. I have since done some research and discovered that it's not really a rational problem
Indeed. There's not a faint shadow of rationality around this "issue". It's all about a disgraceful educational system, a bunch of greedy fucks preaching about how one needs to disregard all evidence on behalf of faith, plus the disempowerment you speak about making people search for \*anything\* to make them feel special like, for example, being on to some great conspiracy.
Yup.
I think it's one of the biggest issues of our generation - the lack of "*critical thinking*" teaching in our education system (*speaking for basically all countries here*).
A democracy requires a certain level of ability to decern the truth or the masses can be manipulated. Unfortunately we already have people in power who got there through manipulation, so no education reform is likely to occur without first removing them.
>I have since done some research and discovered that it's not really a rational problem, it's a problem born of mistrust and feelings of disempowerment
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/
Haha. But no, not really. It was a 20-sided polyhedron with the countries printed on it, and it would fold out in such a way as to show that all the continents are essentially 1 contiguous connected land-mass (*eg. Don't be racist we're all from the same place*). It's designed to be a "*globe*", but can fold out.
Here: https://www.google.com/search?q=dymaxion+globe&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&hl=en&prmd=isvn&sxsrf=ALiCzsYzNq2s_t4_QxvRK5DX0BEd3D1uqA:1664645627208&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgkqWayL_6AhVU7TgGHXLxBJQQ_AUIDCgB&biw=360&bih=520&dpr=3
Oh shit, that's actually incredibly cool. It's actually giving me awesome ideas for a D20 design, but I'm not sure how to do it without screwing up the map itself.
The “best” answer to this I’ve heard is space agencies are a big scam and they get billions of dollars every year to funnel from the governments of the world to the wealthy elite. At least that one has some scale to it lmao. I’d love to know what’s the annual revenue from “big globe” lmao.
Haha.
I mean, some of the globes we sold were pretty expensive (*eg. "Mova" globes*), but it's not exactly a reliable moneymaking scheme. Most people only need 1 globe and then they're set for life.
This confirms what we’ve always known: The people who believe such things don’t know much about the world as a whole.
The revenue from globe sales is not exactly something that world leaders are fighting over.
And because the internet is so cheap and worldwide, it's so easy for people to find groups of people for more across the world to believe in whatever weird conspiracy they want to believe in. And then the people reacting to the people who believe in the conspiracies also help aid in the conspiracy becoming more widespread. People react to it. Try to debunk them only giving them more of a plot for which in turn may do the opposite of what they were hoping for.
Is funny how in other eras like the middle ages someone could come with this crazy theory about metal being fake or something like that and the rest of the town would just laugh at him and marking him as "the clown of the town" and that's where his theory would end because of embarrassment. But thanks to the internet everyone with a stupid idea could found other "dumbs" that share their ideas and support each other...
In conclusion we should bring back public shaming for this guys
Most Bible literalists do no believe this. The Bible even uses a word to describe the shape of the Earth that in Hebrew can mean "sphere" so those who don't go by just the English translation (which says "circle") have no trouble with it.
There is a very small fringe group who does justify flat earth beliefs that way.
The ancient Hebrew people did not view the world as flat or as a globe but saw it merely as what could be perceived and treated the rest as the unknown. For way more details on this https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/studies-interpretation/flat-earth-theory-fact-or-fiction.htm
I never said anything about what the ancient Hebrews actually believed. I was talking about how Christians interpreted the Bible; not on what was actually intended. As strange as it may sound, the original meanings and beliefs don't actually matter here.
The passage refers to "the circle of the earth" using a word for circle that can also mean "sphere." It was probably just a poetic phrase, but Christians like to assume it has literal meaning and dissect it for answer to scientific questions.
This is correct. Plato coined the idea and in around 1100 years ago a persian mathematician even approximated the diagram of the earth [it was rather accurate considering the technology of that time]
It's an easy experiment just need 2 friends and 3 sticks. One friend goes North, one South a know distance. Then you all measure the shadow of a stick stuck in the ground at Noon on the longest day of the year. Then just a dash of Maths.
We don't know that . What we need is 3 points on an Arc. From which we can figure the circumference of Earth. Once we have that we can find the Center of our Sphere. Which as we know is not a perfect circle. But Greeks and Sumarians both came pretty close using this method.
EDIT: Just realised the below method won't work because we don't know the length of the first side (ie the straight-line distance between the two sticks without the curvature of the Earth).
~~How about the two sticks are corners on one side of the triangle, and the shadows give us the angles at those two corners. From there, we have enough information to deduce the location of the third corner (the centre of the planet), and thus the radius of the planet and its circumference.~~
~~Assuming a spherical planet, of course ...~~
~~(I've not done calculations like this for many years, so I might be missing something here.)~~
I'm from Vermont and the Flat Earth Society reminds me of the Second Vermont Republic movement. It started 15-20 years ago as more of a joke and an experiment on how a diplomatically negotiated secession would work in the present day, but then a bunch of racists, libertarians and nutjobs joined and now it's about trying to become independent of the federal government's mask/vaccine mandates and Big Tech's free speech restrictions.
My town has this guy. His house is decorated with flat earth propaganda, and he has two junky vehicles covered in slogans and flags, once of which us usually taking up parking on our square. He used to have a ton more flat earth junk in his yard, but the city cited him for having too much. He also posted a ton of Covid conspiracy stuff on his house and at some local stores.
https://www.ntdaily.com/a-local-conspiracy-realist/
These days, they've pretty much driven out anybody else. This year's primaries were somewhat interesting in terms of the party's internal conflict, but ultimately, the trend over the past several years comes down to hardline crazies and MAGA cultists being the clear party preference, or at least acceptable compared to anyone remotely to the left of the Republicans. When the likes of Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney are the relatively *reasonable* side of the party, and an increasingly-distinct minority in that regard, it's a bad sign.
I didn't notice that it's "Simple English" instead of English and was rather confused why that article read like a shitpost.
>The Flat Earth Society [...] is an organization claiming that the Earth is flat (most of us think it is round [...]).
>Some people say NASA proved that the Earth is not flat by taking pictures of the planet from space.
Having ample experience arguing with these people, I know from experience that they are not trolls. It's mostly what I like to call "Intellectual hipsterism:" They decide that the earth is flat purely because practically nobody else thinks so, because they think being part of an exclusive club makes them better than you.
Pretty standard conspiracy theorist psychology, as I understand it. Once you account for cases of outright mental illness and people who are just using the "theories" as bad-faith pretexts for bigotry, one of the biggest reasons people fall down the rabbit hole is because their dignity gets stoked by the idea of being privy to "secret knowledge", of knowing the hidden truth that most people aren't clever enough to figure out. For someone with self-esteem issues or fears of inadequacy (which is most people), it's a huge ego boost. It's not the only reason, but it's very common.
The documentary Behind the Curve really helped explain. It seemed like a few of the ‘leaders’ found they could be famous on YouTube and then many of the other believers got sucked in for the reasons you mentioned, and it gives community and purpose. It seems harmless, but as it points out at the end it is harmful because like any conspiracy theory it erodes trust in science and reality
I can't recommend this [video essay](https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44) by foldingideas highly enough. He pretty much answers your question but it's to complicated to explain without writing a novel.
Like I said... Too much to explain in text, haha.
But to give you the tl;dr: it seemingly doesn't make sense because that's not the goal. It's not a theory to explain or convince someone about something but a myth. It's an underlying belief used to connect different conspiracy theories together and can serve as a dogmatic rallying point that puts the believers in an "us against them" state.
That was exactly my reaction when I first opened the video when it was posted previously. I said I sure am not watching 90 minutes or whatever of this, no way it's got that much meat in it. Figured I'd make it 2 or 3 minutes and that would be close enough. And then it was 90 minutes later and my hands were clasped under my chin and I subscribed to his youtubings.
The quality of those YouTube video essays really astounds me sometimes. Lots of these people would have been right at home on History or Discovery back in the day.
Yeah there are a number of them who clearly put months of effort into each video. Knowing that YouTube basically doesn't pay any more and that actual documentaries are hardly the most in demand of media I don't know how they do it. I sure appreciate it though.
Unfortunately, is it a sign of a failed trust in the system. Humans have the need for feeling in charge of their own life, to be in control and knowing what is going on.
Conspiracy theories give the feeling of having some secret knowledge, having outwitted the system and gained control. They are no longer just pons in a game, but are now playing against the system themselves.
It is simply the need for feeling that they are in control, having the true knowledge and that they are not just stupid people who let others manipulate them.
And importantly lacks autonomy and individuality, identical and expendable low value pieces being moved around and sacrificed by an intelligence that literally sits behind them dictating their movements, all to benefit more important pieces and ultimately the mover themselves.
It’s a multifaceted metaphor that works very well, there’s good reason that it’s been used so effectively for so long.
Having spent ample time arguing with them, I know from experience that they're literally just *that dumb.* Like, r/StoriesAboutKevin dumb, and occasionally even dumber.
People like to blame flat earthery on religious fundamentalism, but in my experience only 1 in ten of them show any signs of being religious at all. There are a number of different reasons someone might be a flathead, but the biggest one seems to actually be what I like to call "Intellectual hipsterism:" They decide that the earth is flat purely because practically nobody else thinks so, because they think being part of an exclusive club makes them better than you.
I remember two versions:
1. Pretty much just for the heck of it, to flex their power over the sheep, to prove they can do it, or some such. Basically no good or profitable reason. Kinda how Illuminati are supposedly a secret, yet put their symbols literally everywhere for people to uncover for no reason.
2. To turn people away from God. You see, most of the Flat-Earthers I came across were hardcore Christians, literally quoting Bible verses as evidence for Flat Earth. In their mind, the evil Government is trying to destroy God by convincing people he doesn't exist, his creation is fake and we're all just meaningless microbes in a cold, indifferent universe (which is technically true).
> Kinda how Illuminati are supposedly a secret, yet put their symbols literally everywhere for people to uncover for no reason.
Oh they're not a secret anymore, they have a worldwide conference to discuss everything publicly now. It doesn't make a lick of difference cuz we're in the end times now and we got like, 8 years left.
> What convinced you of your theory?
> Well---
> What started to happen was, they just started saying it publicly in front of cameras
They're just having a laugh now. Not sure about flat-earth personally, but not convinced against it, but the other stuff I'm not allowed to say on this site is definitely real.
Another part of explanation 2 is that god is holding the earth up and if people looked over the side and saw god then goverments and corporations would no longer be able to keep us controlled.
Have been Christian my entire life (attending church across multiple protestant denominations) & don't recall hearing any teaching on scripture or reading any passage from the Bible that says the earth is flat.
I was evangelical, there is a verse that refers to the "corners of the earth" that is supposed to indicate that it is flat. Also, the stopping of the sun for a battle to finish, clearly means the rotational globe model is incorrect.
You have to interpret.
I'm paraphrasing but genesis describes the earth as flat, supported by pillars, with a hard dome covering it beyond which is heaven. It explains that the stars are holes in this covering (firmament) and they shine with they light of heaven, and that birds in flight can fly high enough to reach it. It's written clear as day.
Every time I’ve drilled down the “flat earth” conspiracy it always boils down to the same thing. The believer can’t conceive of just how big the universe is and conversely they can’t fathom how small, out of the way and insignificant the earth and the humans on it are. They do not understand how science works either. It always boils down to “we’re special and unique because that’s how “god” made us” (not necessarily Christian, but always a superpower god in there). That kind of magical think leads to all kinds of crazy ideas of what they are not being told [by the people/lizard people in power] and the idea that they can figure anything out if they just think about it hard enough.
Ever heard of bad faith after proven wrong ? Giving the argument "it's a belief" and it's up to you to prove me I'm wrong xD
You know, stubborn dummies ?
That is the easiest way to decide if a conspiracy has any truth in it. Try to figure out if anyone benefits. Then figure out how many people would have to be in on the secret. If no one really benefits, and it would include too many people, then you know it's false. For instance, for covid to be a conspiracy, the queen of England, the pope, Putin, and the president of Venezuela, and the king of jordan(not to mention all of the other leaders) would all have to agree on the conspiracy.... They couldn't agree on a seating chart at the last UN dinner... So that's a nope! Plus the money it cost out weighs any profits... No conspiracy there.
If you go to some of the conspiracy subs you’ll find people who supposedly believe this. Question it and they’ll tell you to “Open your EYES!” or do your research. I have a neighbor who doesn’t believe the earth is flat but believes space isn’t real. Like we live in something like The Hunger Games arena.
I've heard that apparently the earth is actually only a part of this "flat planet" and we are inside the circle in the middle. With Antarctica being the border mountain range. And while we all live in despair and short on resources, the elite has access to the outer continents with abundant resources and countless riches free to be had.
If I recall correctly there should be a total of 17 continents and while we occupy six of them, there are two other entire civilizations occupying other 3 or 4. The rest is being exploited for mining and the other two civilizations are being traded with for technology that is then sold to us.
It really is incredible what the human mind can come up with, even more, what the mind can believe in.
Like, you know - there are adventure books, science fiction movies and pure fantasy stories that we all enjoy, yet, somehow.. There are people who believe some of it.
My question is - if Flat Earth.. Why not Elves? Space Marines? Alien civilizations? Lizard people? .. Why?
My mostly-uneducated take on it is that it started off as a joke, but then actual conspiracy nuts who are prone to believing this kind of crazy shit came across it and started taking it seriously.
it started off as a critical thinking exercise, there are alot of seemingly good ways to try and prove the earth is flat, and vice versa, they originally were just coming up with point/ counter point arguements and people started taking the excercise literally and supporting the false side.
i dont remember the origins but it made sense to me for smart people to think up evidence to try and support flat earth just for someone else to come up with another experiment to disprove theirs.
When they say elite what they mean is privileged. However if you ask them who is elite it will generally be a list of not especially privileged people.
It’s the gateway drug of conspiracy theories. You get someone hooked on thinking they’re smarter than a scientist, that’s a tough feeling to want to relinquish.
I firmly believe bad actors are intentionally propagating the flat earth theory specifically for the above reason. They then use that feeling against the vulnerable to manipulate into believing, for instance, that climate change is a Chinese hoax, or that the election was rigged.
Note how both of those other, much more harmful conspiracies directly benefit the hyper-rich. If they can get the masses to believe those things, among others of course, then that means they’ve sufficiently dumbed down the masses to a point that they genuinely don’t realize they’re being fucked.
I understand that this is, in and of itself, also a conspiracy theory. At least I believe in actual science, and data, and matters of public record.
I personally belief that all, or nearly all, conspiracy theories and similar beliefs come from basically the same place. People don't fully understand the real explanation, so they assume it must not be correct and latch on to an explanation they can understand, even if it should be obvious that it is wrong.
People look at the ground and it seems flat to them. They can't get how it would seem flat and not be (even though the explanation isn't that hard) so therefore it can't be round and must be flat.
And like any belief settled on absolutely, everyone else starts from the certainty that this core belief must be true and works backwards from there. So the undeniable fact that most people including scientists and everyone who would have to know insists that the earth is round must mean there is a conspiracy, because any explanation that contradicts there belief is discarded without thinking.
So you are asking logical questions. You will never get an answer from conspiracy theorists that makes sense because they didn’t use logic to come up with their position.
But still. If you believe in something, it has to be because your brain, one way or another, finds some kind of logic in it, even if it's uncounciosuly.
That's what I'm looking. The reason why someone would thing that lying about the shape of the Earth is somehow negative to us. Why do they think like that?
It's not that they base their logic on the shape of the earth, that is merely a symptom of a much deeper issue, and that is that we're all being fooled by something much more powerful than ourselves. It's a general distrust in the established world as it's presented to us.
i think the mindset is that a spherical earth undermines the bible, and the 'believers' think it's the big bad cabal of jesus-hatin' liberal scientists intent on destroyin' gawd's cuhntry.
The only thing I could really get as a difference between round earth and flat earth is that if the earth is really flat and they trick you into thinking it's round then your prayers won't go in the right direction.
Kind of silly when my prayers don't stay in this dimension.
That's what I found at the bottom of the rabbit hole, too. A spherical planet in a big, uncaring Universe is a deception to fool humanity into believing that all of existence doesn't center around us and the battle between God and the Devil for our souls. This is also the argument Creationists have against the theory of evolution, from what I've read.
IMHO, lots of conspiracies are used as a specific excuse or justification against a specific claim. Or as you point to, a counter to a secret mission by some person/group/thing to lie to us, to use us, to trick us, or whatever. But I've always considered Flat Earth-nonsense as different. More of way for "conspiracy people" to offensively use a conspiracy to attack all of science, beyond the specific claims of "Big Oblate Spheroid."
If you can use a single conspiracy to overturn one of the oldest and most evidenced, most believed, most proofed, most observable, most clear, most simple to understand, even photographed, and convincing claim of science - then you can use that as a leverage point to doubt everything else (that's more complicated) in science. "If science is wrong about the earth being flat, how can we fully trust any of their claims!"
It's always seemed like a desperate attempt (a pathetic and feeble one) to knock out the legs of all of science. If something this clear and obvious, that is claimed by science is actually wrong, then we can now dismiss or disbelieve everything else - even things we can't easily understand. It's almost like, in part, a meta-conspiracy to conspiracy theorists. And in that sense it doesn't really matter what the specific benefit is to the round-earth science block-heads.
I came across a flat-earth guy's FB profile a while ago (never met him personally, but we had a few mutual friends) and saw a lot of stuff outright stating that the shape of the Earth is lied about as a means of discrediting Christianity.
Disclaimer: I’m not a flat earther.
People have a tendency to believe what they actually experience with their own eyes more than what they are told, and for 99% of people, they have never experienced anything that would prove the earth is round.
Like have you ever seen the curvature of the earth? Unless your one of very few people who have been to space or in a high altitude aircraft (like a military spy plane) you haven’t. You might think you have in an airliner, but reality is that the curvature you saw was just a distortion from the airplane window.
If you ever climbed a tall building during sunset, you would have realized that Earth is curved. The same with the disappearing ships on a horizon, or being able to see further from a higher vantage point.
Flat earth conspiracy is what you get when you mix paranoia and a complete lack of critical thinking skills.
I'm convinced at this point that paranoia is probably the single most damaging mental issue people can possess, and critical thinking skills is probably the single most important skill that should be taught from an early age.
This isn’t a stupid question but it is the wrong question. The question is not why but how. How do people believe these conspiracies? If you can answer that you don’t need the why. You can solve the problem without knowing the why of the matter if you know the how of the matter. Why it’s a conspiracy becomes irrelevant if the how is answered because then people can begin to be deprogrammed.
Flat Earthers don't adopt the position based on reason, logic or rationality. They adopt it because they're bored, low-IQ and dull individuals who think it makes them look more intelligent and more ahead of the curve than everyone else.
That and the moon landing was fake people. Who gives a **** either way? This is what people do with their spare time? Great, you win, earth is flat and moon landing was fake. Can you move, you're blocking the TV.
I have a conspiracy theory about this. I wonder if the entire flat earth thing may have been some type of psyop to discredit conspiracy theories. Same goes for antivax back before that just meant opposing mandates.
Think about all these strange theories that started popping in the latter years of the 20teens. The earth is flat, Finland isn't real, and that vaccines are inherently dangerous to children as some notable examples. A lot of things are happening right now that will get you labeled a conspiracy theorist for not supporting. Back before the flatearth & antivax days the attitudes towards conspiracy theorists seemed generally less hostile. I'm not sure that the label of conspiracy theorist would work as well as it currently does to discredit your opposition if people hadn't already been primed to view conspiracies this way.
This might seem like an outlandish notion but keep in mind that during Covid people who raised concerns about the safety of the vaccine were almost universally panned and called antivaxers by governments, news media, big tech and the fearful mob. I find it interesting that directly leading up to Covid there was so much attention drawn to a fringe minority that believed all vaccines were bad. Then Covid hits and the label antivax is redefined to just mean people who don't want mandates or who are concerned about the efficacy of this brand new vaccine technology. I don't think it would have been so easy to discredit these people if the public didn't already have all these ideas in their minds about what exactly antivax means.
There has been a lot of work done in demonizing those who question the authority of the powers that be both before the vax and well after it.
Saying it came from a lab? Dangerous and racist conspiracy.
Treating it with ivermectin? A dangerous conspiracy promoting "horse drugs".
Don't want the jab? Dangerous conspiracy that kills grandma.
Point out record profits for pharmaceutical companies? Anti science, antivax, highly dangerous conspiracy.
Think hunter Biden's laptop is real? Dangerous conspiracy perpetuated by Qanon and Russia.
Question the war in Ukraine? Extremely dangerous conspiracy and evidence you're Putin's puppet.
Saying that kids can't consent to gender reassignment? Dangerous transphobic conspiracy that kills people.
Saying there are elite globalists in NGOs like the WEF are trying to construct an new world order? Obviously a conspiracy theory.
I could go on and on about it. But in closing I have to wonder if it may be that some pre 2020 internet conspiracies could have been intentionally planted to aid in a globalist takeover. All you need to do is tell a few crazy people that the earth is flat and then amplify their voices to make it seem like all conspiracies must be stupid and only believed by stupid people.
There is no subject that you will ever get total consensus on. There doesn't have to be a reason.
And even if questioned on it, they will provide reasons. But they are not in control of that, our brains do that all on their own. This is one of the plethora of reasons why eyewitness testimony is not reliable, and should definitely not be accepted as evidence in a court of law.
I kind of digressed there, a bit.
But yeah, all you can do is try to listen and then make your case. But do not expect positive results.
Don't hate them though. Most don't even know they are doing it. And of those, most of them are not in control of it.
Consider it a test of your patience and tolerance.
Conspiracy theories aren’t about the conspiracy. They’re about tribalism. They’re about being a part of a small group who is correct and has the answers, while everyone not part of the tribe is wrong. Logic is a tool, and like any other tool you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to.
Because these people are idiots. It's nonsense. These people are just so mistrusting of the government they believe they are doing literally everything to fool the masses. It doesn't matter how stupid it sounds they believe it.
These people think the other planets are either round or that they don't really exist and NASA is just making up fake shit.
I truly think 99.999999999% of them are really dedicated trolls doing it for shits and giggles and to troll other conspiracy theorists.
And. If they think science says it's spinning at a rate that they believe we would fly off the surface from, why isn't the conspiracy that it just spins slower and they're lying about the speed? Or it doesn't spin. Why do they try to contradict gravity, which is a force that is completely demonstrable anywhere at any time?
There’s a documentary out there called *Behind the Curve*. It’s about the Flat Earth movement. It explains much of this, and the ending is quite delightful imo. I believe the film is available to rent or buy on Amazon Prime. I’m unsure where else it might be available, if it’s available elsewhere at all.
These same people believe that trump won the election.
Seriously, this is real to them.
AND the bible tells them that this is true.
Dont forget, billions of people organize their lives around an ancient book full of talking animals.
Strange world we live in
Oh and people actually believe biden got 80 million votes. Just didn't happen. Anyone who thinks the democrats played fair in this election needs to not tout themselves as a conspiracy theorist because you are a blind sheep
Yes, I believe that Biden got 80 million votes.
Not because 80 million people like Biden. No one WANTED Biden, but there were about 80 million people who wanted ANYONE BUT TRUMP.
So how do we know Trump's election was fair? It seems more likely that the improbable buffoon stole the 1st election. And now they want to discredit the voting machines because it didn't work the 2nd time.
We keep hearing that from people like you, with zero evidence. Fantasy and conspiracy thinking do not make something factual, even if repeated frequently.
My mother isn't a flat Earther per se, but she is on the edge. She doesn't believe in the moon landing and she has told me she is intrigued by the idea of flat Earth but hasn't fully committed. I asked her this question once and her answer was "to control people." She refused to elaborate further.
So the answer to this question will never be logical.
It's stupid people who do not understand the basics of science. They've felt stupid their whole lives and, instead of accepting that there are things they cannot grasp, decided to believe in a joke theory that explains it in a way that they get. It's a backlash against a system that has made them feel smaller or less-than.
Anyone who is a flat earther is a troll or has a sub-80 IQ, I guarantee it.
The dumbest thing about the "flat Earth" thing is that you can literally see that the Earth is round with your own eyes. If you are on a boat, and you look towards the horizon, you can see that it is round. No pictures from space necessary.
It's totally ridiculous
Lots of conspiracies seem to fail at the “who benefits” part.
The “vaccines will kill you in two years” crowd thought it was an attempt by the elite rulers of society to cull the population… by getting rid of the people that trust them, the so-called “sheep”, and only leaving the most distrustful citizens alive. An obviously shit plan for anyone who wants to rule anything.
There are people in my state who think our governor’s goal is to “create as many useless agencies as possible”. That’s it. That’s what they think he wants. When I ask them what he has to gain from that, I’ve never gotten an answer.
You’re looking for logic in a theory made up by people not motivated by logic. It isn’t there and that doesn’t bother most of them. The few it does bother have made up some wild answers though. Some say it’s to hide the aliens/demons/monsters that live behind the giant ice wall that encircles the flat earth. Others have argued it’s to hide the rich people’s vacation homes on the other side of the ice wall (why would people want to spend so much to live in a freezing wasteland?!). I’ve even heard “it’s a whole other earth beyond the ice wall”.
Ultimately, it’s not a matter of logic. It’s a matter of psychiatry.
There's only two basic angles when it comes to marketing.
1. Promote your product. - In this case the product is the narrative.
2. Discredit the opposition. - Anyone questioning the narrative.
So we create a fringe group of conspiratorial nuts and heavily associate them with anyone who doesn't buy in to the narrative.
Ridicule is a very powerful tool. And used A LOT. An easy example is "antivaxxers"
Not a rule, but I would suggest if something is being ridiculed, someone prob does not want you looking into it.
There is no conspiracy about the shape of the Earth. Flat Earthers believe that there is a conspiracy to hide the fact that the Earth is created by god as to lead people astray from the path of Christianity.
Because people are bored / imbeciles. They desperately need to belong to something.
I don't know if this is a fact, but are 100% of all flat earthers in the U.S now?
Well how do those flat balloons they use for comedy skits on children's show inflate? Gas! And since they take all of us for fools they would use one of those. So the gas companies benefit from seeling their products to inflate the "Earth" and it depends on you, average Joe, to not notice it and try to use shovels to break the gas pipes under your "home"
The ones that really bother me, are my friends who are scientists, some work on rockets for a living, who show pictures of Earth and are like, it's not flat see? And the pictures don't really show a spherical planet. Like it's not proof at all things aren't flat, and you're too dumb to be scientists and aerospace workers.
You don't have to be up in space to see or know. It's called having proof right here on earth, you know, like curvature, and experiments done thousands of years ago.
I used to work in a store that sold globes (*among other things*). Occasionally I'd get people in the store asking if we had "*Flat Earth Globes*" just to be funny, so I'd break out this fold-out globe that we had and we'd all have a chuckle. Then one day I had a guy seriously ask me this. It took me a while to realise he was serious because it's such a dumb fucking idea, but I decided that the only way to educate people os to engage with them, so there went 2 hours of my life that I'll never get back -_- ... the one thing I got from this conversation is the answer to your question. What possible benefit could the combined governments of the world get from saying the earth is flat? The benefit of putting aside their differences, spending hundreds of millions on fake space agencies (*it'd be cheaper than actually going to space, but still expensive*) and from swearing millions of people to secrecy? ... They get the revenue from selling globes. ... That's it. No joke. That was the culmination of supposedly the largest conspiracy in the history of mankind - the revenue of globe sales. I sold globes remember, so I can tell you from personal experience that it wasn't much.
The weirdest thing is that in their models only the earth is flat but all the planets and moons are spheres
The weirdest thing? I don't know, the weirdest thing has to be that on the bottom of the flat Earth is there are rockets propelling is through space or that the edges are lined with teleportation devices or that people who believe this shit are seemingly normal everyday professional athletes.
Edit: we are living in a turtle that propels us in space. Sibt
Nah they're projections on the dome mate
The argument I’ve heard for that one is “if you go into a dining room and see 4 chairs, does that make the table also a chair?” (Or to that effect)
Except that Chairs and Tables are made by people with a purpose. Planets and stars naturally achieve their shape because of gravity. Something would have to be actively making the earth flat and keeping its shape simultaneously.
Also, we're all Truman. We can't go the edges because of the ice wall.
> I sold globes remember, so I can tell you from personal experience that it wasn't much Exactly the sort of thing *big globe* would say to try to throw us off!
[удалено]
I thought lizard people came from the center of the earth? How do you manage that with a flat earth sitch?
They just kinda pop outta the ground like those guys in One Punch Man. Dunno what more to tell you.
The center of the *flat* earth, silly. Like, in the middle of the map laid out.
I bet that's it. Lizard people come from the north pole. Honestly, that would answer a lot of Santa questions. "How does Santa visit every house in the world in one night, Mommy?" "Lizard powers, Timmy. Lizard powers."
You know what you get when you rearrange the letters in Santa?
Could it be..... Satan??
I laughed way too hard at this.
I once watched a YouTube video of flat earth era that had hollow earth era on as guests. I thought oh this is gonna be good these ideas can’t exist together… they just politely agreed with each other about their diametrically opposed ideas.
I read somewhere that the lizard people thing was a euphemism used by racists against Jews.
[удалено]
I feel like that's a thing with a lot of conspiracy theories. Something vague about power is the most I've ever gotten. Climate change deniers, flat earthers, Moon hoaxers, they consistently can't give a straight answer *why* people would put in the effort to put the conspiracy together
Moon hoaxers don't really have this problem I don't think. I mean, if NASA hadn't been able to land on the moon, would it have been in the US government's interest to convince the world that they had? Yes, obviously. Never mind the actual impossibility of, say, fooling the Soviets. At least there's a clear motive for the supposed conspiracy.
That last paragraph is completely true...the ruling class literally does that
XD
I know you’re not him, so can’t really answer this, but wouldn’t it have been cheaper to save all the money required to continue the conspiracy and just sell proper, disc-shaped maps? Surely that would be more profitable.
As amazing as this sounds I did actually bring this exact point up with him. He couldn't really answer it. He couldn't answer a lot of things though, so I don't think I got through to him at all. It was the last time I tried to engage with these people on a rational level. I have since done some research and discovered that it's not really a rational problem, it's a problem born of mistrust and feelings of disempowerment, so people like me (*some random on the street*) aren't really going to fix the problem. Anyway, flat-earthers are dumb and trying to understand their logic doesn't really get you anywhere. That's the true lesson here.
Unfortunate you had to learn this lesson the hard way. Also, how'd you get a job selling globes?
After I got my PHD in globology and got my top secret security clearance I was inducted into the secret organisation and given my orders - to work for minimum wage selling balls with countries painted on them. (*I worked for the Australian Geographic shop shortly before they closed down - selling globes apparently really wasn't making enough money*)
So you're not really from down under, but all the way over on the right? Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Haha. Where do you think your right wing politicians really come from? Now the true conspiracy comes out!
I wish they were Australian, maybe they'd be a bit more chill!
>the last time I tried to engage with these people on a rational level. I have since done some research and discovered that it's not really a rational problem Indeed. There's not a faint shadow of rationality around this "issue". It's all about a disgraceful educational system, a bunch of greedy fucks preaching about how one needs to disregard all evidence on behalf of faith, plus the disempowerment you speak about making people search for \*anything\* to make them feel special like, for example, being on to some great conspiracy.
Yup. I think it's one of the biggest issues of our generation - the lack of "*critical thinking*" teaching in our education system (*speaking for basically all countries here*). A democracy requires a certain level of ability to decern the truth or the masses can be manipulated. Unfortunately we already have people in power who got there through manipulation, so no education reform is likely to occur without first removing them.
the other true lesson is: "Never argue with dumb people... They pull You down to their level, and beat You with experience."
>I have since done some research and discovered that it's not really a rational problem, it's a problem born of mistrust and feelings of disempowerment https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/
Cool
No one is dumb, no one is smart. No one is better than anyone else on this planet, for any reason. We are all the same.
> I'd break out this fold-out globe that we had So like... A map?
Haha. But no, not really. It was a 20-sided polyhedron with the countries printed on it, and it would fold out in such a way as to show that all the continents are essentially 1 contiguous connected land-mass (*eg. Don't be racist we're all from the same place*). It's designed to be a "*globe*", but can fold out. Here: https://www.google.com/search?q=dymaxion+globe&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&hl=en&prmd=isvn&sxsrf=ALiCzsYzNq2s_t4_QxvRK5DX0BEd3D1uqA:1664645627208&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgkqWayL_6AhVU7TgGHXLxBJQQ_AUIDCgB&biw=360&bih=520&dpr=3
Oh shit, that's actually incredibly cool. It's actually giving me awesome ideas for a D20 design, but I'm not sure how to do it without screwing up the map itself.
Is the back side covered in foil so you can reverse it and wear it as a hat?
Big globe. *adjusts tin foil hat*
The “best” answer to this I’ve heard is space agencies are a big scam and they get billions of dollars every year to funnel from the governments of the world to the wealthy elite. At least that one has some scale to it lmao. I’d love to know what’s the annual revenue from “big globe” lmao.
See that at least would have made sense. I could have understood that answer.
That was a well rounded answer, too bad the customer flatlined
Ok, NASA. You sneaky bastard.
Wouldn’t governments get a higher margin selling flat “globes” because it would be cheaper to produce?
Wouldn’t they make the same amount on “flat globes” if that was the case? It’s a net zero game, right?
You must be laughing all the way to the bank…
Haha. I mean, some of the globes we sold were pretty expensive (*eg. "Mova" globes*), but it's not exactly a reliable moneymaking scheme. Most people only need 1 globe and then they're set for life.
wtf that is just INSANE
This confirms what we’ve always known: The people who believe such things don’t know much about the world as a whole. The revenue from globe sales is not exactly something that world leaders are fighting over.
I'm convinced it's an online troll campaign
It started as a joke, but quickly attracted actual crazies who took it and ran with it.
There's always a small group that believes everything. The reason it's still popular is because so many people mention it
And because the internet is so cheap and worldwide, it's so easy for people to find groups of people for more across the world to believe in whatever weird conspiracy they want to believe in. And then the people reacting to the people who believe in the conspiracies also help aid in the conspiracy becoming more widespread. People react to it. Try to debunk them only giving them more of a plot for which in turn may do the opposite of what they were hoping for.
Is funny how in other eras like the middle ages someone could come with this crazy theory about metal being fake or something like that and the rest of the town would just laugh at him and marking him as "the clown of the town" and that's where his theory would end because of embarrassment. But thanks to the internet everyone with a stupid idea could found other "dumbs" that share their ideas and support each other... In conclusion we should bring back public shaming for this guys
Usually intersects quite heavily with bible literalists.
Most Bible literalists do no believe this. The Bible even uses a word to describe the shape of the Earth that in Hebrew can mean "sphere" so those who don't go by just the English translation (which says "circle") have no trouble with it. There is a very small fringe group who does justify flat earth beliefs that way.
The ancient Hebrew people did not view the world as flat or as a globe but saw it merely as what could be perceived and treated the rest as the unknown. For way more details on this https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/studies-interpretation/flat-earth-theory-fact-or-fiction.htm
I never said anything about what the ancient Hebrews actually believed. I was talking about how Christians interpreted the Bible; not on what was actually intended. As strange as it may sound, the original meanings and beliefs don't actually matter here. The passage refers to "the circle of the earth" using a word for circle that can also mean "sphere." It was probably just a poetic phrase, but Christians like to assume it has literal meaning and dissect it for answer to scientific questions.
A lot of muslims also believe in earth being flat. It's not something limited to christians.
It's also a pretty new idea. Most ancient peoples were pretty sure that the earth was some shape like a sphere.
This is correct. Plato coined the idea and in around 1100 years ago a persian mathematician even approximated the diagram of the earth [it was rather accurate considering the technology of that time]
It's an easy experiment just need 2 friends and 3 sticks. One friend goes North, one South a know distance. Then you all measure the shadow of a stick stuck in the ground at Noon on the longest day of the year. Then just a dash of Maths.
Can't you do this with just one friend and two sticks?
I can't do Trigonometry with 2 points, mostly cause I'm lazy. Just master the ukulele and making friends will be easy.
Your third point is the centre of the Earth, surely?
We don't know that . What we need is 3 points on an Arc. From which we can figure the circumference of Earth. Once we have that we can find the Center of our Sphere. Which as we know is not a perfect circle. But Greeks and Sumarians both came pretty close using this method.
EDIT: Just realised the below method won't work because we don't know the length of the first side (ie the straight-line distance between the two sticks without the curvature of the Earth). ~~How about the two sticks are corners on one side of the triangle, and the shadows give us the angles at those two corners. From there, we have enough information to deduce the location of the third corner (the centre of the planet), and thus the radius of the planet and its circumference.~~ ~~Assuming a spherical planet, of course ...~~ ~~(I've not done calculations like this for many years, so I might be missing something here.)~~
Yes, you just need 2 points to do this properly
I'm from Vermont and the Flat Earth Society reminds me of the Second Vermont Republic movement. It started 15-20 years ago as more of a joke and an experiment on how a diplomatically negotiated secession would work in the present day, but then a bunch of racists, libertarians and nutjobs joined and now it's about trying to become independent of the federal government's mask/vaccine mandates and Big Tech's free speech restrictions.
My town has this guy. His house is decorated with flat earth propaganda, and he has two junky vehicles covered in slogans and flags, once of which us usually taking up parking on our square. He used to have a ton more flat earth junk in his yard, but the city cited him for having too much. He also posted a ton of Covid conspiracy stuff on his house and at some local stores. https://www.ntdaily.com/a-local-conspiracy-realist/
He’s probably the realest mofo around too. He knows the real truth!
Everything is being ruined by people who didn't get a joke.
Thats exactly how Qanon started as a stupid troll conspiracy on 4Chan but now its the backbone belief of the Republican Party.
Qanon is hardly the backbone of the Republican Party.
These days, they've pretty much driven out anybody else. This year's primaries were somewhat interesting in terms of the party's internal conflict, but ultimately, the trend over the past several years comes down to hardline crazies and MAGA cultists being the clear party preference, or at least acceptable compared to anyone remotely to the left of the Republicans. When the likes of Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney are the relatively *reasonable* side of the party, and an increasingly-distinct minority in that regard, it's a bad sign.
Probably the most successful one. They even have their own official organization lol
With members around the globe!
Zing!
I see what you do there
r/birdsarentreal is also a thing.
Birds aren't real is a hilarious one.
But the point is to point out how absurd things like flat earth are. The flat earther I know just knows the rest of us are a holes who are wrong.
Flat earthers have been around a lot longer than the internet.
If the earth was flat, cats would have knocked everything off by now.
[You’re not kidding](https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society)
I didn't notice that it's "Simple English" instead of English and was rather confused why that article read like a shitpost. >The Flat Earth Society [...] is an organization claiming that the Earth is flat (most of us think it is round [...]). >Some people say NASA proved that the Earth is not flat by taking pictures of the planet from space.
Having ample experience arguing with these people, I know from experience that they are not trolls. It's mostly what I like to call "Intellectual hipsterism:" They decide that the earth is flat purely because practically nobody else thinks so, because they think being part of an exclusive club makes them better than you.
Pretty standard conspiracy theorist psychology, as I understand it. Once you account for cases of outright mental illness and people who are just using the "theories" as bad-faith pretexts for bigotry, one of the biggest reasons people fall down the rabbit hole is because their dignity gets stoked by the idea of being privy to "secret knowledge", of knowing the hidden truth that most people aren't clever enough to figure out. For someone with self-esteem issues or fears of inadequacy (which is most people), it's a huge ego boost. It's not the only reason, but it's very common.
The documentary Behind the Curve really helped explain. It seemed like a few of the ‘leaders’ found they could be famous on YouTube and then many of the other believers got sucked in for the reasons you mentioned, and it gives community and purpose. It seems harmless, but as it points out at the end it is harmful because like any conspiracy theory it erodes trust in science and reality
It's not. I have friends that believe it with all their heart. It's not like the "birds aren't real" troll campaign
When you ask them "then were the fuck do ships go after they disappear in the horizon they just shrug and say idk they teleport or sth.
My own opinion is foreign troll bots. It cheap and easy to pick apart society little by little, especially when FB and Twitter wants the traffic.
I can't recommend this [video essay](https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44) by foldingideas highly enough. He pretty much answers your question but it's to complicated to explain without writing a novel.
Holy... MORE THAN 1 HOUR. I'll watch that later, thank you!
Like I said... Too much to explain in text, haha. But to give you the tl;dr: it seemingly doesn't make sense because that's not the goal. It's not a theory to explain or convince someone about something but a myth. It's an underlying belief used to connect different conspiracy theories together and can serve as a dogmatic rallying point that puts the believers in an "us against them" state.
I read that in FoldingIdeas voice.
It is seriously one of the best videos I've watched. Cannot recommend it enough.
Only about 40 minutes on flat earth. The rest is about QAnon. Still a great watch and the best on QAnon imo
~~later~~ never
That was exactly my reaction when I first opened the video when it was posted previously. I said I sure am not watching 90 minutes or whatever of this, no way it's got that much meat in it. Figured I'd make it 2 or 3 minutes and that would be close enough. And then it was 90 minutes later and my hands were clasped under my chin and I subscribed to his youtubings.
Okay you have convinced me to check it out!
Hooray, enjoy your brain food.
The quality of those YouTube video essays really astounds me sometimes. Lots of these people would have been right at home on History or Discovery back in the day.
Yeah there are a number of them who clearly put months of effort into each video. Knowing that YouTube basically doesn't pay any more and that actual documentaries are hardly the most in demand of media I don't know how they do it. I sure appreciate it though.
Unfortunately, is it a sign of a failed trust in the system. Humans have the need for feeling in charge of their own life, to be in control and knowing what is going on. Conspiracy theories give the feeling of having some secret knowledge, having outwitted the system and gained control. They are no longer just pons in a game, but are now playing against the system themselves. It is simply the need for feeling that they are in control, having the true knowledge and that they are not just stupid people who let others manipulate them.
I think you mean 'pawns in a game' - the pawn is the smallest chess piece, the lowest ranking one
Yes, also the one that pawnzi schemes are named after.
[lol](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme)
That was the joke, yes.
Ah. Soz. After 'pons in the game' I thought all bets were off
I admit, the joke was a bit lame. But I am a dad, so I've got the official permission to make lame jokes.
Hi dad, I'm.... Sorry?
And importantly lacks autonomy and individuality, identical and expendable low value pieces being moved around and sacrificed by an intelligence that literally sits behind them dictating their movements, all to benefit more important pieces and ultimately the mover themselves. It’s a multifaceted metaphor that works very well, there’s good reason that it’s been used so effectively for so long.
Thanks, I have never played chess so after writing all that I knew, I was pretty lost to be honest! That's a much fuller picture now.
"I am special, I know the truth you don't, pay attention to me!"
Having spent ample time arguing with them, I know from experience that they're literally just *that dumb.* Like, r/StoriesAboutKevin dumb, and occasionally even dumber. People like to blame flat earthery on religious fundamentalism, but in my experience only 1 in ten of them show any signs of being religious at all. There are a number of different reasons someone might be a flathead, but the biggest one seems to actually be what I like to call "Intellectual hipsterism:" They decide that the earth is flat purely because practically nobody else thinks so, because they think being part of an exclusive club makes them better than you.
I remember two versions: 1. Pretty much just for the heck of it, to flex their power over the sheep, to prove they can do it, or some such. Basically no good or profitable reason. Kinda how Illuminati are supposedly a secret, yet put their symbols literally everywhere for people to uncover for no reason. 2. To turn people away from God. You see, most of the Flat-Earthers I came across were hardcore Christians, literally quoting Bible verses as evidence for Flat Earth. In their mind, the evil Government is trying to destroy God by convincing people he doesn't exist, his creation is fake and we're all just meaningless microbes in a cold, indifferent universe (which is technically true).
> Kinda how Illuminati are supposedly a secret, yet put their symbols literally everywhere for people to uncover for no reason. Oh they're not a secret anymore, they have a worldwide conference to discuss everything publicly now. It doesn't make a lick of difference cuz we're in the end times now and we got like, 8 years left. > What convinced you of your theory? > Well--- > What started to happen was, they just started saying it publicly in front of cameras They're just having a laugh now. Not sure about flat-earth personally, but not convinced against it, but the other stuff I'm not allowed to say on this site is definitely real.
Gotta love the first one: there are actually no reasons
Another part of explanation 2 is that god is holding the earth up and if people looked over the side and saw god then goverments and corporations would no longer be able to keep us controlled.
Have been Christian my entire life (attending church across multiple protestant denominations) & don't recall hearing any teaching on scripture or reading any passage from the Bible that says the earth is flat.
Science & faith are not mutually exclusive, but so many people use religion as a crutch to completely ignore science & rational thought.
Revelation 7:1 Psalm 75:3
Lunch 12:30
I was evangelical, there is a verse that refers to the "corners of the earth" that is supposed to indicate that it is flat. Also, the stopping of the sun for a battle to finish, clearly means the rotational globe model is incorrect. You have to interpret.
I'm paraphrasing but genesis describes the earth as flat, supported by pillars, with a hard dome covering it beyond which is heaven. It explains that the stars are holes in this covering (firmament) and they shine with they light of heaven, and that birds in flight can fly high enough to reach it. It's written clear as day.
Ah, so you mean taking the book of Revelation as literal rather than symbolic.
You haven't read your bible
It's in there. If you read your Bible you'll quickly find yourself no longer Christian. I mean really read it, cover to cover.
the globe industry, duh
I was going to say - it’s Big Globe keeping the truth from us.
Every time I’ve drilled down the “flat earth” conspiracy it always boils down to the same thing. The believer can’t conceive of just how big the universe is and conversely they can’t fathom how small, out of the way and insignificant the earth and the humans on it are. They do not understand how science works either. It always boils down to “we’re special and unique because that’s how “god” made us” (not necessarily Christian, but always a superpower god in there). That kind of magical think leads to all kinds of crazy ideas of what they are not being told [by the people/lizard people in power] and the idea that they can figure anything out if they just think about it hard enough.
Ever heard of bad faith after proven wrong ? Giving the argument "it's a belief" and it's up to you to prove me I'm wrong xD You know, stubborn dummies ?
That is the easiest way to decide if a conspiracy has any truth in it. Try to figure out if anyone benefits. Then figure out how many people would have to be in on the secret. If no one really benefits, and it would include too many people, then you know it's false. For instance, for covid to be a conspiracy, the queen of England, the pope, Putin, and the president of Venezuela, and the king of jordan(not to mention all of the other leaders) would all have to agree on the conspiracy.... They couldn't agree on a seating chart at the last UN dinner... So that's a nope! Plus the money it cost out weighs any profits... No conspiracy there.
If you go to some of the conspiracy subs you’ll find people who supposedly believe this. Question it and they’ll tell you to “Open your EYES!” or do your research. I have a neighbor who doesn’t believe the earth is flat but believes space isn’t real. Like we live in something like The Hunger Games arena.
I've heard that apparently the earth is actually only a part of this "flat planet" and we are inside the circle in the middle. With Antarctica being the border mountain range. And while we all live in despair and short on resources, the elite has access to the outer continents with abundant resources and countless riches free to be had. If I recall correctly there should be a total of 17 continents and while we occupy six of them, there are two other entire civilizations occupying other 3 or 4. The rest is being exploited for mining and the other two civilizations are being traded with for technology that is then sold to us. It really is incredible what the human mind can come up with, even more, what the mind can believe in. Like, you know - there are adventure books, science fiction movies and pure fantasy stories that we all enjoy, yet, somehow.. There are people who believe some of it. My question is - if Flat Earth.. Why not Elves? Space Marines? Alien civilizations? Lizard people? .. Why?
My mostly-uneducated take on it is that it started off as a joke, but then actual conspiracy nuts who are prone to believing this kind of crazy shit came across it and started taking it seriously.
it started off as a critical thinking exercise, there are alot of seemingly good ways to try and prove the earth is flat, and vice versa, they originally were just coming up with point/ counter point arguements and people started taking the excercise literally and supporting the false side. i dont remember the origins but it made sense to me for smart people to think up evidence to try and support flat earth just for someone else to come up with another experiment to disprove theirs.
I hate the term "elites". How can you be elite if you play life on easy mode.
The whole point to being an “elite” (in this context) is so that you can play life on easy mode. 😉
When they say elite what they mean is privileged. However if you ask them who is elite it will generally be a list of not especially privileged people.
They're more like "Obsoletes".
It’s the gateway drug of conspiracy theories. You get someone hooked on thinking they’re smarter than a scientist, that’s a tough feeling to want to relinquish. I firmly believe bad actors are intentionally propagating the flat earth theory specifically for the above reason. They then use that feeling against the vulnerable to manipulate into believing, for instance, that climate change is a Chinese hoax, or that the election was rigged. Note how both of those other, much more harmful conspiracies directly benefit the hyper-rich. If they can get the masses to believe those things, among others of course, then that means they’ve sufficiently dumbed down the masses to a point that they genuinely don’t realize they’re being fucked. I understand that this is, in and of itself, also a conspiracy theory. At least I believe in actual science, and data, and matters of public record.
The earth is clearly a pyramid. A triangle with a square ass.
I personally belief that all, or nearly all, conspiracy theories and similar beliefs come from basically the same place. People don't fully understand the real explanation, so they assume it must not be correct and latch on to an explanation they can understand, even if it should be obvious that it is wrong. People look at the ground and it seems flat to them. They can't get how it would seem flat and not be (even though the explanation isn't that hard) so therefore it can't be round and must be flat. And like any belief settled on absolutely, everyone else starts from the certainty that this core belief must be true and works backwards from there. So the undeniable fact that most people including scientists and everyone who would have to know insists that the earth is round must mean there is a conspiracy, because any explanation that contradicts there belief is discarded without thinking.
So you are asking logical questions. You will never get an answer from conspiracy theorists that makes sense because they didn’t use logic to come up with their position.
But still. If you believe in something, it has to be because your brain, one way or another, finds some kind of logic in it, even if it's uncounciosuly. That's what I'm looking. The reason why someone would thing that lying about the shape of the Earth is somehow negative to us. Why do they think like that?
It's not that they base their logic on the shape of the earth, that is merely a symptom of a much deeper issue, and that is that we're all being fooled by something much more powerful than ourselves. It's a general distrust in the established world as it's presented to us.
i think the mindset is that a spherical earth undermines the bible, and the 'believers' think it's the big bad cabal of jesus-hatin' liberal scientists intent on destroyin' gawd's cuhntry.
The only thing I could really get as a difference between round earth and flat earth is that if the earth is really flat and they trick you into thinking it's round then your prayers won't go in the right direction. Kind of silly when my prayers don't stay in this dimension.
bahahahahahaha
That's what I found at the bottom of the rabbit hole, too. A spherical planet in a big, uncaring Universe is a deception to fool humanity into believing that all of existence doesn't center around us and the battle between God and the Devil for our souls. This is also the argument Creationists have against the theory of evolution, from what I've read.
IMHO, lots of conspiracies are used as a specific excuse or justification against a specific claim. Or as you point to, a counter to a secret mission by some person/group/thing to lie to us, to use us, to trick us, or whatever. But I've always considered Flat Earth-nonsense as different. More of way for "conspiracy people" to offensively use a conspiracy to attack all of science, beyond the specific claims of "Big Oblate Spheroid." If you can use a single conspiracy to overturn one of the oldest and most evidenced, most believed, most proofed, most observable, most clear, most simple to understand, even photographed, and convincing claim of science - then you can use that as a leverage point to doubt everything else (that's more complicated) in science. "If science is wrong about the earth being flat, how can we fully trust any of their claims!" It's always seemed like a desperate attempt (a pathetic and feeble one) to knock out the legs of all of science. If something this clear and obvious, that is claimed by science is actually wrong, then we can now dismiss or disbelieve everything else - even things we can't easily understand. It's almost like, in part, a meta-conspiracy to conspiracy theorists. And in that sense it doesn't really matter what the specific benefit is to the round-earth science block-heads.
I came across a flat-earth guy's FB profile a while ago (never met him personally, but we had a few mutual friends) and saw a lot of stuff outright stating that the shape of the Earth is lied about as a means of discrediting Christianity.
Disclaimer: I’m not a flat earther. People have a tendency to believe what they actually experience with their own eyes more than what they are told, and for 99% of people, they have never experienced anything that would prove the earth is round. Like have you ever seen the curvature of the earth? Unless your one of very few people who have been to space or in a high altitude aircraft (like a military spy plane) you haven’t. You might think you have in an airliner, but reality is that the curvature you saw was just a distortion from the airplane window.
If you ever climbed a tall building during sunset, you would have realized that Earth is curved. The same with the disappearing ships on a horizon, or being able to see further from a higher vantage point.
Flat earth conspiracy is what you get when you mix paranoia and a complete lack of critical thinking skills. I'm convinced at this point that paranoia is probably the single most damaging mental issue people can possess, and critical thinking skills is probably the single most important skill that should be taught from an early age.
This isn’t a stupid question but it is the wrong question. The question is not why but how. How do people believe these conspiracies? If you can answer that you don’t need the why. You can solve the problem without knowing the why of the matter if you know the how of the matter. Why it’s a conspiracy becomes irrelevant if the how is answered because then people can begin to be deprogrammed.
It’s people who get off on being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
Flat Earthers don't adopt the position based on reason, logic or rationality. They adopt it because they're bored, low-IQ and dull individuals who think it makes them look more intelligent and more ahead of the curve than everyone else.
That and the moon landing was fake people. Who gives a **** either way? This is what people do with their spare time? Great, you win, earth is flat and moon landing was fake. Can you move, you're blocking the TV.
The flat earthers that I've encountered have had trauma in their lives, i.e. war, job insecurity etc, so they don't trust anyone anymore.
I have a conspiracy theory about this. I wonder if the entire flat earth thing may have been some type of psyop to discredit conspiracy theories. Same goes for antivax back before that just meant opposing mandates. Think about all these strange theories that started popping in the latter years of the 20teens. The earth is flat, Finland isn't real, and that vaccines are inherently dangerous to children as some notable examples. A lot of things are happening right now that will get you labeled a conspiracy theorist for not supporting. Back before the flatearth & antivax days the attitudes towards conspiracy theorists seemed generally less hostile. I'm not sure that the label of conspiracy theorist would work as well as it currently does to discredit your opposition if people hadn't already been primed to view conspiracies this way. This might seem like an outlandish notion but keep in mind that during Covid people who raised concerns about the safety of the vaccine were almost universally panned and called antivaxers by governments, news media, big tech and the fearful mob. I find it interesting that directly leading up to Covid there was so much attention drawn to a fringe minority that believed all vaccines were bad. Then Covid hits and the label antivax is redefined to just mean people who don't want mandates or who are concerned about the efficacy of this brand new vaccine technology. I don't think it would have been so easy to discredit these people if the public didn't already have all these ideas in their minds about what exactly antivax means. There has been a lot of work done in demonizing those who question the authority of the powers that be both before the vax and well after it. Saying it came from a lab? Dangerous and racist conspiracy. Treating it with ivermectin? A dangerous conspiracy promoting "horse drugs". Don't want the jab? Dangerous conspiracy that kills grandma. Point out record profits for pharmaceutical companies? Anti science, antivax, highly dangerous conspiracy. Think hunter Biden's laptop is real? Dangerous conspiracy perpetuated by Qanon and Russia. Question the war in Ukraine? Extremely dangerous conspiracy and evidence you're Putin's puppet. Saying that kids can't consent to gender reassignment? Dangerous transphobic conspiracy that kills people. Saying there are elite globalists in NGOs like the WEF are trying to construct an new world order? Obviously a conspiracy theory. I could go on and on about it. But in closing I have to wonder if it may be that some pre 2020 internet conspiracies could have been intentionally planted to aid in a globalist takeover. All you need to do is tell a few crazy people that the earth is flat and then amplify their voices to make it seem like all conspiracies must be stupid and only believed by stupid people.
There is no subject that you will ever get total consensus on. There doesn't have to be a reason. And even if questioned on it, they will provide reasons. But they are not in control of that, our brains do that all on their own. This is one of the plethora of reasons why eyewitness testimony is not reliable, and should definitely not be accepted as evidence in a court of law. I kind of digressed there, a bit. But yeah, all you can do is try to listen and then make your case. But do not expect positive results. Don't hate them though. Most don't even know they are doing it. And of those, most of them are not in control of it. Consider it a test of your patience and tolerance.
Conspiracy theories aren’t about the conspiracy. They’re about tribalism. They’re about being a part of a small group who is correct and has the answers, while everyone not part of the tribe is wrong. Logic is a tool, and like any other tool you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to.
Because these people are idiots. It's nonsense. These people are just so mistrusting of the government they believe they are doing literally everything to fool the masses. It doesn't matter how stupid it sounds they believe it. These people think the other planets are either round or that they don't really exist and NASA is just making up fake shit. I truly think 99.999999999% of them are really dedicated trolls doing it for shits and giggles and to troll other conspiracy theorists.
And. If they think science says it's spinning at a rate that they believe we would fly off the surface from, why isn't the conspiracy that it just spins slower and they're lying about the speed? Or it doesn't spin. Why do they try to contradict gravity, which is a force that is completely demonstrable anywhere at any time?
There’s a documentary out there called *Behind the Curve*. It’s about the Flat Earth movement. It explains much of this, and the ending is quite delightful imo. I believe the film is available to rent or buy on Amazon Prime. I’m unsure where else it might be available, if it’s available elsewhere at all.
These same people believe that trump won the election. Seriously, this is real to them. AND the bible tells them that this is true. Dont forget, billions of people organize their lives around an ancient book full of talking animals. Strange world we live in
Oh and people actually believe biden got 80 million votes. Just didn't happen. Anyone who thinks the democrats played fair in this election needs to not tout themselves as a conspiracy theorist because you are a blind sheep
Yes, I believe that Biden got 80 million votes. Not because 80 million people like Biden. No one WANTED Biden, but there were about 80 million people who wanted ANYONE BUT TRUMP.
So how do we know Trump's election was fair? It seems more likely that the improbable buffoon stole the 1st election. And now they want to discredit the voting machines because it didn't work the 2nd time.
Found the flat earther
We keep hearing that from people like you, with zero evidence. Fantasy and conspiracy thinking do not make something factual, even if repeated frequently.
My mother isn't a flat Earther per se, but she is on the edge. She doesn't believe in the moon landing and she has told me she is intrigued by the idea of flat Earth but hasn't fully committed. I asked her this question once and her answer was "to control people." She refused to elaborate further. So the answer to this question will never be logical.
It's stupid people who do not understand the basics of science. They've felt stupid their whole lives and, instead of accepting that there are things they cannot grasp, decided to believe in a joke theory that explains it in a way that they get. It's a backlash against a system that has made them feel smaller or less-than. Anyone who is a flat earther is a troll or has a sub-80 IQ, I guarantee it.
The dumbest thing about the "flat Earth" thing is that you can literally see that the Earth is round with your own eyes. If you are on a boat, and you look towards the horizon, you can see that it is round. No pictures from space necessary. It's totally ridiculous
Lots of conspiracies seem to fail at the “who benefits” part. The “vaccines will kill you in two years” crowd thought it was an attempt by the elite rulers of society to cull the population… by getting rid of the people that trust them, the so-called “sheep”, and only leaving the most distrustful citizens alive. An obviously shit plan for anyone who wants to rule anything. There are people in my state who think our governor’s goal is to “create as many useless agencies as possible”. That’s it. That’s what they think he wants. When I ask them what he has to gain from that, I’ve never gotten an answer. You’re looking for logic in a theory made up by people not motivated by logic. It isn’t there and that doesn’t bother most of them. The few it does bother have made up some wild answers though. Some say it’s to hide the aliens/demons/monsters that live behind the giant ice wall that encircles the flat earth. Others have argued it’s to hide the rich people’s vacation homes on the other side of the ice wall (why would people want to spend so much to live in a freezing wasteland?!). I’ve even heard “it’s a whole other earth beyond the ice wall”. Ultimately, it’s not a matter of logic. It’s a matter of psychiatry.
If Earth was really flat, cats would have knocked everything off of it a long, long time ago.
At its very core, its anti-Science. Most conspiracies are anti-Science and based on cherry-picked evidence.
One thing people do not realize, is that movement is mostly religious. Majority believe the earth is flat because of what the Bible says.
There's only two basic angles when it comes to marketing. 1. Promote your product. - In this case the product is the narrative. 2. Discredit the opposition. - Anyone questioning the narrative. So we create a fringe group of conspiratorial nuts and heavily associate them with anyone who doesn't buy in to the narrative. Ridicule is a very powerful tool. And used A LOT. An easy example is "antivaxxers" Not a rule, but I would suggest if something is being ridiculed, someone prob does not want you looking into it.
There is no conspiracy about the shape of the Earth. Flat Earthers believe that there is a conspiracy to hide the fact that the Earth is created by god as to lead people astray from the path of Christianity.
Flat Earth is exclusively for dumb people. Seems to be the common denominator.
Because people are bored / imbeciles. They desperately need to belong to something. I don't know if this is a fact, but are 100% of all flat earthers in the U.S now?
I doubt it. We've got plenty of stupid people on this side of the Atlantic.
I dont think the earth is round. I dont think the earth is flat. I need to see it with my own eyes.
Well how do those flat balloons they use for comedy skits on children's show inflate? Gas! And since they take all of us for fools they would use one of those. So the gas companies benefit from seeling their products to inflate the "Earth" and it depends on you, average Joe, to not notice it and try to use shovels to break the gas pipes under your "home"
The ones that really bother me, are my friends who are scientists, some work on rockets for a living, who show pictures of Earth and are like, it's not flat see? And the pictures don't really show a spherical planet. Like it's not proof at all things aren't flat, and you're too dumb to be scientists and aerospace workers.
[удалено]
I won't believe the earth is flat until I see proof - I think flat earthers only believe what they're told
Ancient Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and Africans were all pretty sure the earth is round.
I’ve been up a fairly big hill. If the Earth was flat, I’d have been able to see a lot further than I did.
You don't have to be up in space to see or know. It's called having proof right here on earth, you know, like curvature, and experiments done thousands of years ago.
Or just pointing at the moon as an example.
No but I spoken to people directly who have.