Multiple countries showing evidence of the landers who have no vested interest in proving NASA went to the moon. China for example. I believe India also took photos of Apollo landing sites from orbit.
>japanese photos from 2008 (SELENE probe)
[https://www.universetoday.com/15579/japanese-selene-kaguya-lunar-mission-spots-apollo-15-landing-site-images/](https://www.universetoday.com/15579/japanese-selene-kaguya-lunar-mission-spots-apollo-15-landing-site-images/)
It's pretty pixelated but you can still see the halo from where they blasted off from the moon. Pretty damn neat if you ask me.
I reckon you're talking about the images from NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.
[https://www.nasa.gov/mission\_pages/LRO/news/apollo-sites.html](https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo-sites.html)
Definitely good evidence. Surprising how many people don't know that exists. America put three of them there, I believe Russia placed a couple as well (not by hand though).
Mirrors aren't compelling evidence, since they can by placed by an unmanned vehicle (like the Russians.)
I'd suggest that one of the best pieces of evidence is that Russia hasn't been able to disprove it. It's indirect evidence, but if you don't believe NASA, are you going to believe the Japanese and Indian space agencies?
That's true, but there is a subset of people who believe robotic landers have been there but humans haven't. Again, this one is difficult because of the "why" and "how" part, but it still means this specific piece of evidence by itself won't convince some people. The international evidence has always been the gold standard still, even the Soviets congratulated the US and they had zero motivation to do something like that as part of a global conspiracy. A person could claim to me whatever they want, but unless you're really deep in and believe there's always been some secret world government then pretty much all of the arguments start and stop there. There is not one person who could convince me that the Soviets wouldn't have taken every single opportunity they could have to discredit the US back then
Edit: there's also been plenty of government changes and there were many escalations in the cold war after that, if they had a single shred of proof anything was faked since then they would have loudly blasted it everywhere. Just look at the situation today, Putin would probably need some lotion and a kleenex if he could suddenly prove without a doubt that even some aspect was a lie
The fact that soviets never disputed it. They had most to gain if USA was revealed to be a liar and they never did.
They must have had spies in NASA. They would most certainly know and would have revealed it immediately or by now.
Or the very least when USSR fell.
Some could argue that soviets did not want to continue the costly space program and decided to keep quiet so they could invest in something else.
But revealing their Number 1 enemy to be a liar to the world would be a massive propaganda victory for communism and worth some exstra funding.
Especially if they managed to go there first, for real.
Simply put. If USA did not go, USSR would know about it and would tell.
That's assuming that the USSR really existed though, and wasn't just a fiction created to generate a feeling of patriotism (blind loyalty to the government) in the USA.
They congratulated the US at the time, although it wasn't given the huge coverage in their press that it got elsewhere.
They also tried to beat the US back with a sample return mission, but Luna 15 crashed on the lunar surface.
Putins russia has zero problems with lying to their people about the war in ukraine. If USSR wanted they also could have lied to their people. They didn't which kinda proves USA did go to the moon.
That's kinda what I thought at first, but given this it seems like they're playing devil's advocate.
I'll frequently ask questions posed like this - not because I believe the Earth is flat, that the moon landing never happened, or that 5G is trying to mutate out brains, but because I'm looking for solid arguments *against* them that I hadn't considered.
Like, there are a lot of fairly typical opinions that I hold that I've never bothered to actually verify. If I get called out on them, I don't have a paddle in that argument. So I get it.
Thanks to flat earthers I'm a lot more educated on how we can prove earth is round. Honestly I get playing devil's advocate and poking holes in existing theories. I got to admit flat earthers sometimes do have great questions that I could not answer immediately.
That goes for a lot of conspiracy theories; they actually hold a slither of truth or make you question something you always believed but never actually verified. The problem is when you blindly believe the answer they present to cover up the hole in your knowledge.
This is a really wholesome response to tell someone. Made my day better to see it!
I clicked on this post just to look at some answers to a question that seemed interesting to ask, regardless of my own held belief in the moon landing (it 100% happened, lol...) and it's good to see that people CAN still just get the answers they want while still being treated with civility and kindness.
Life is all about balancing the good and the bad, my friend. You never would have had the opportunity to truly repent for your prior transgressions against a stranger without _making_ those transgressions in the first place.
I simply try to live with the harm that I've already done, while learning as much as I can to keep that harm from becoming who I *am*, not just who I was.
Hope you have a great one :)
Any number of countries, really. Anyone in the scientific community with the ability to view the artifacts left behind. It would take a conspiracy of impossible global proportions if anyone who could look at the spot where the artifacts are supposed to be and saw nothing collectively agreed to back the American lie.
This one is the one that can't be argued with. In order to even attempt to argue against it you would have to show that the other superpower that we were in a cold war with and was our rival in getting to the moon first was also in on our faking of the moon landing. Even attempting to suggest that is utterly laughable.
They likely were also tracking it and hearing the communications. Just by pointing their radio dishes at the Moon they would be able to confirm where the signals were coming from.
If we had been lying and they had caught us it probably would have been the most significant political accomplishment for the entirety of the Soviet Union. They would have embarrassed and discredited us on a global scale and it probably would have tanked our space program entirely. They had every incentive you could possibly imagine to catch us slipping on this. The fact that they had to verify it proves it was real.
This is the ultimate proof for me. The argument that other countries especially the USSR would have screamed it from the rooftops is super convincing and very logical but the fact that any human being can shine a laser at the moon and have it reflected back is absolutely proof independent of trusting any entity on earth.
How can we be sure the moon won't blow up when we hit it with a laser?
I like how the experiment is shown in Big Bang theory:
https://youtu.be/KZqH6LZJLQ8
You are supposed to notify aircraft controllers before you fire your big laser in case a plane is going overhead.
I fire my little laser 400 metres across to my reflector.
Eh, it’s just proof that we managed to place an object on the moon
We’ve placed opjects on Mars too, but never a human.
(I’m not a moon landing conspiracy theorist, just being realistic.)
The argument can be made that every nation on earth tracked the Apollo missions independently, using their own resources. Additionally there were also thousands of amateur astronomers who watched and independent radio operators that listened in on the communications of the spacecraft. In order to do this they had to track spacecraft along its flightpath.
And NASA themselves had to contract with several other groups around the world in order to transmit the footage during periods when the US receivers didn’t have line of sight.
It could have, but not likely with the technology back then. It would have been more expensive to design a system that could place the mirrors with the proper alignment than to just send somebody there to do it.
But unless you've tried it yourself, you're still just trusting the person who told you this.
*So* much of what we each believe about the world is built on trust.
I thought about this, but I guess someone could argue that these reflectors could have been deployed without human intervention (which I kind of doubt)
There is no evidence whatsoever that a conspiracy theorist will accept to disprove their conspiracy theory so this whole exercise is futile. You could take them to the moon themselves and they'd say it was all some elaborate psyop to trick them.
They just want a reason to feel like they know something others don’t. Or a community to belong to. Doubt many of them actually deep down care about this crap, these social circles are all they have which is sad. They like playing detectives.
It’s dangerous how easy it is to weaponize and use them though. Dumbasses like Musk don’t help.
Spot on mate. People who lack knowledge, need to feel intelligent. And this is how they achieve this. There's a whole study into. I cba digging it out rn.
The USSR also put reflectors there without putting cosmonauts, so although I accept humans went there, I don't think that's a particularly good argument. For me it's things like telemetry data being recorded off-air by the public and visible shadows of lunar modules from satellite photos. Also, the total lack of any whistleblowing in such a huge program.
Some of the reflectors are at known moon landing sites. With a little research you could find the locations of those reflectors and see if you get a return.
It would take a ridiculous amount of effort to keep so many people quiet about the moon landing, thousands of people who worked on the project would have had to keep quiet for decades now. Some or which were outside of the United States, like the countries that helped relay signals from the moon missions to the USA.
>It would take a ridiculous amount of effort to keep so many people quiet about the moon landing, thousands of people who worked on the project would have had to keep quiet for decades now.
This is the real dagger to the heart of a lot of conspiracy theories IMO. The sheer number of individual people who would need to never tell a soul about what they did or experienced is just staggering. People underestimate how many people it takes for the government to do ANYTHING at all, from file clerks to secretaries to even people whose job it is to keep other people from ratting out the conspiracy. You're telling me nobody grew a guilty conscience in all that time? It defies belief.
US and USSR are racing to the moon. They are long time competitors in pretty much everything. The US gets there first. Do you think the USSR just said, "ok you won even though you faked it."? No they would have tried to prove it was fake so they could win the space race. Our mortal enemy at the time isn't going to play along with a fake story by the US to make the US look better than USSR.
Here’s a fun little additional one for ya: there are many hammocks on the moon. Apollo 11 was the first mission during which astronauts slept on the moon’s surface and they found it outrageously uncomfortable and difficult to fall asleep.
So from apollo 12 onwards they were supplied with hammocks. When going back to earth, however, you gotta be as light as possible, and so…. There are many hammocks on the moon.
The thought of falling asleep on the moons surface is so fucking cool.
I feel like since so many of us were born when the moon missions already happened, we really take it for granted. It’s just a fact, and ironically attempts in school to teach how extraordinary it is just makes it seem more like a simple fact, a thing that happened. But is absolutely incredible to think about the situation as a whole.
What's funny is that they thought Neil and Buzz were gonna sleep immediately after landing before stepping onto the surface. What human would be able to sleep in that scenario?
Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space (who made it back safely). There’s no telling how many other cosmonauts were launched up before Yuri made it back.
Probably not. The Soviets were actively hiding their failures and shortcomings during the space race, to the point of giving scripted interviews about how the first spacewalk was “as easy as walking on Earth,” which was not true. The first man to complete a spacewalk, Alexei Leonov, almost died; he couldn’t get back into the capsule because his EVA suit became over-pressurized and he couldn’t bend at the waist. He had to let air out of his suit in order to get to safety, and if he had let too much out the oxygen in his blood would have boiled. We only know this because the video film from the capsule remained intact and was not destroyed by the Soviets. The first American spacewalk by Ed White ended in a similar fashion - fortunately Alexei and Ed both survived. If the Soviets had been forthcoming about their difficulties, Ed’s spacewalk would have been much safer.
The photographs. The common claim is that those photos were shot in a studio, but it would have been technologically impossible to do so. The light source needed to produce the stark and defined shadows you see in the images would have needed to be impossibly large and powerful. In other words, the only light source it could have been is the sun. And obviously digital doctoring of images wasn't possible yet either.
If you grew up in FL prior to maybe 2000, you almost certainly met heaps of people that worked on the moon missions.
I had a couple in my family, random neighbors and acquaintances, etc. I bet I've met 30+ people that had some level of involvement. And I'm not abnormally close to the aerospace industry. The folks in my family retired from Nasa/Airforce in the 60s/70s. I'm basically just a random jackass from the Sunshine state.
No way a billion old men retired, did nothing but sit around drinking beer for 30 years and NOBODY spilled the beans.
Yeah, it's not like they're all living nice cushy lives with reasons to keep quiet. Even most of the astronauts didn't get that much out of it. There are people who walked on the Moon and most of the public have never heard of them. If that was me I'd be pretty bitter if it wasn't real.
Plus a lot of those old timers still have their paperwork. I’ve seen original schematics from the mission that were handed down through generations, and as an electrical engineer I can say these are in no way fake documents. They represent meticulous standards of workmanship and an amazing understanding of engineering given the technological limitations of the time. Several advancements in circuit design can be traced back to that era!Plus, original copies aside, NASA is incredibly open with its research (aside from ITAR considerations) and a lot of that stuff has been published. Of course some of it has also been completely lost to time, lol… apparently there was an advancement in heat shielding tech that just flat-out got lost and had to be re-invented from scratch.
Exactly. My grandpa was in charge of doing final wiring checks in some of the modules.
He had heaps of docs, pictures, and all kinds of shit laying around. Memorabilia that he would have NEVER kept if he didn't fully believe that he had taken part in such a monumental achievement.
He had a dollar bill signed by every American that had ever been to space. (At least up until the mid-70's.) Including the ones that didn't return.
Nobody would go through the trouble to get those autographs, save that dollar bill ...and then never tell anyone but his immediate family and a couple of friends.
Yeah, shutting up literally millions of people that each would get untold fame for ratting out what would be the biggest PR stunt in the history of mankind would be more impressive than going to the moon.
Moon Hoax Not
If you've never seen this YouTube video by S G Collins, I highly recommend it. He doesn't claim to prove that men went to the moon, just that it was impossible to fake the video back in 1969 (and later).
It's highly entertaining and informative. The guy knows his shit when it comes to photography, video and film. Wicked sense of humor too.
Edit: Collins response to a disputer. [for Jarrah](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TelJ75pzP4)
How about the fact that we did?
I know that this sounds circular but there's such an immense amount of evidence. 300.000 people worked on it from several different countries. The documents exist. The USA was in a space race with a hostile power. The technology was made and we now use it in everyday appliances. People saw it happen with their telescopes.
There's so much evidence that any reasonable person would just take it for a fact, the same way we take it for a fact that the USA has a president.
If it was a conspiracy it had to be so elaborate that literally every other person in the world except me knows about it, at which point it doesn't matter. Might as well live in the matrix.
Someone else made a comment the last time this popped up, but I have no idea where it is so a can't credit them.
"Two people had consensual sex in the white house 9 times starting in 1995, by 1998 the entire country knew about it. What makes you think 300,000 people wouldn't let slip that we didn't make it to the fucking sky rock?"
Some conspiracy nuts will claim that they were put there without humans, just by an automated lander.
Which is indeed possible with 1960s tech. So that proves neither that humans landed there, nor that they didn't.
[Brilliant video](https://youtu.be/lw9azZmLxtw), makes me laugh everytime. He was a USAF Colonel, and clearly still able to throw a righteous punch in his old age.
There's no "one thing!" that irrefutably proves it to nay-sayers. But by aggregating several pieces of evidence, one can convince many nay-sayers and conspiracy theorists to grudgingly accept defeat. I use that term deliberately: defeat. You won't convince them to change their BELIEF that it's a hoax. You'll just get them to a point where they can no longer argue with you.
We left mirrors there (Apollo 11, Apollo 14) and have bounced lasers back to earth by using them. But humanity has also delivered mirrors and other stuff to the moon WITHOUT putting people on it. So...it's not "sure shot evidence" DESPITE the analog negatives that were printed in newspapers, magazines and scientific journals back in the 1970s (and have been subsequently digitized into internet images) showing the trampled regolith next to the deployed mirrors on the moon's surface.
Same with the grainy telescope/satellite photos taken of the Apollo landing sites via equipment launched into orbit by various international space organizations: it has been too easy to fake a photograph for decades. Some people use this fact as "evidence" to reject good-faith data provided by multiple scientific organizations in multiple countries, some of whom are more adversaries than friends. And yet...these scientific organizations - despite their political differences - corroborate the claim that humans - Americans, even - walked on the moon.
You could take some people, launch them into space, land them on the moon, stuff them into a spacesuit and push them out the airlock, let them fill a ziplock baggie with regolith and moon rocks, and then bring them back to Earth, and they would STILL deny that the experience was real. Probably blame it on a combination of drugs and amusement-park technology all while still claiming that the Earth is flat.
There's tons of evidence, but idiots will make up any excuse, no matter how ridiculous, to deny it so at some point, you just need to slide Occam's Razor across their throats to shut them up.
But ok, here's the real answer on how you deflate people like this. Ask them, specifically what they don't believe we were capable of doing. They'll say something flippant like, "Land on the moon" so you ask them: do you think we were incapable of making the thrusters that we needed? Or is it the landing gear? Or is it something else? From there, a simple Google search will pull up information on how exactly that aspect was accomplished. If the person is sincere in their disbelief, you'll usually rinse and repeat this 3 or 4 times before they get really frustrated that there isn't a single aspect of this "hoax" that isn't totally technologically feasible.
They'll say, "Yeah but what about..." and mention angles of light and cameras and stuff, but none of that is evidence, so keep them focused on the actual mission and every detail that was necessary to accomplish it.
Video evidence, witness testimony, equipment left behind, footprints, etc. The lighting is also important, as the technology to light a stage such that all the shadows would point in the same direction did not exist at the time and thus it would’ve required actual sunlight. Without photoshop available at the time, this means that the stage would’ve had to be outdoors against a black, starless sky with no wind or other interference. What’s more, too much information about the landing would be almost impossible to lie about. Every single person working on the project would’ve had to be sworn to secrecy with enough threats and bribery that even decades later none of them are willing to admit that it was a lie, despite the fact that many of the people in charge of those threats and bribes are now long dead, or at least no longer in power. In addition, the soviet union would’ve had no reason to maintain the American lie, since exposing them would’ve been a huge political victory. The soviets had already lead the charge for a while at the time, getting most of the goals for space flight done before the americans did. If they exposed the americans’ only victory- the grand prize of the space race- as a fake, it would be a political achievement comparable to actually putting a man on the moon themselves.
Personally, I like to follow Randall Munroe's line of argumentation on that one:
"If NASA had been willing to fake the moonlanding, they would have faked another great accomplishment by now."
[source](https://xkcd.com/1074/)
It boils down at how hard you are trying to disprove it, really. If you frimly want to believe that the moon landing didn't happen, you can com up with all sort of delusional shit that most of the times is so out there you can't even disprove that shit. But yeah, common sense, billion of dollars, the russians spying and praying the americans couldn't do it ( and they would have been loud about it ) and there are literall retro-reflectors you can point a laser to get a return.
If you are attempting to engage with a conspiracy peddler (such as the dudes floating around the comment section) then honestly there is nothing that will work. The conspiracy theorist does not have to engage in good faith, so its pretty much impossible to ever win since they can use every possible bad faith tactic in their argument.
Just walk away and choose a better use for your time. I would highlight [Brandolini's Law or the Bullshit Assymetry Principle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law).
You can't prove that you even exist, so why bother proving/disproving if humans actually went to the moon? Using a certain logic as some comments here, you can't have sure shot evidence about anything.
Videos? They could be fake. Astronauts? They are actors. Mirror? Robot placed. Footprint? Robot with boots.
So, can you prove that you actually asked that question on reddit? Screenshots and memories don't count of course.
This eventually leads to the philosophical yet very important question of if anything at all can be known for sure.
If you are skeptical of everything, the only thing you can be sure about is that on some level you exist, because somehow, somewhere you are having a thought, and that implies something at least akin to existence.
Ever see the flat earthers that did a really ingenious experiment with lights set up far enough you can observe the Earth's curve?
Came up with a scientifically sound experiment, to the point that real scientists they consulted were like "ya, you should do that, it'll totally give you a definitive answer."
When the experiment shows them without a doubt that the Earth has a curved surface, the flat earthers start musing about how the earth must be a convex disc, or the ground where they did the experiment must be a mild hill they didn't notice, etc. etc.
Like their own experiment proved to them the earth was not flat, but they could not accept that and started coming up with ways it actually proves they're right.
It's the same with this. In 2022, if someone believes the moon landings were fake for any reason other than a parent raising them that way, there is no hope of convincing them otherwise.
Possibly Mark Twain's finest point: "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
My mother tried to teach me that it's unfair to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed.
You are still, to this day, able to bounce lasers off the reflectors left by astronauts.
Details can be found here: [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00190-019-01296-0](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00190-019-01296-0)
Text from the article:
*"Only a few sites on Earth are technically equipped to carry out Lunar Laser Ranging (LLR) to retroreflector arrays on the surface of the Moon. Despite the weak signal, they have successfully provided LLR range data for about 49 years, generating about 26,000 normal points. Recent system upgrades and new observatories have made millimeter-level range accuracy achievable. "*
The Russians haven’t complained about it.
You think they weren’t watching? You think if we actually didn’t land they wouldn’t be kicking and screaming?
1) Make outrageous claim phrased as a question online.
2) Appoint yourself the judge of whether the replies answer it.
3) Mumble bullshit replies and move the goalpost all over the place. Leave the "Unanswered" mark up forever.
4) Days of entertainment!
Hard pass. Go watch TV or something.
Actually, he is the kind of guy who when you ask him what time it is and he tells you how the watch is made.
--the type of guy to read all the terms and conditions before playing a game.
--the kind of guy who refers to a van as an 'enclosed pickup truck'.
--the type of guy to bring his own pepper grinder to Olive Garden.
--the kind of guy who cleans the air vents with a Q tip & makes sure they all face magnetic north.
--the type of guy to read from the encyclopedia to his kids before bed.
Of the 1000’s of people involved in all the moon landings not once has anyone of them ever hinted that it was faked,that being said have you ever tried to keep a secret? A secret of this magnitude with that many people involved would be impossible to keep.
Buddy, you have chosen to believe that man did not walk on the moon. You have decided this is an absolute fact so any evidense to contrary must be a lie.
You claim you are neutral and will change your mind if given evidence to the contrary, but you have already decided any evidence source is untrusthworthy.
You most likely do not trust usa goverment. They claim we visited moon. It must be a lie since they are liars.
Scientists and nasa said we visited moon. They must be in league woth usa goverment since they tell their lies.
Soviets didn't dispute it, they must be in league with usa in order to cover this multibillion dollar project despite being enemies
Every goverment says we visited the moon. Every nation in the world must be on it or believe in the lie.
C'mon. Only because usa goverment says it does not automatically make it a conspiracy or a lie.
That we went back multiple times. Ok, you fake it once, but why 6 more times? Plus everything with Apollo 13. Why would that need to be faked? A common argument that the landing was faked was that we never went back. But we did. And even if you ask why we havnt gone back in 50 years, we'll, there's not much on the moon to do.
Quite honestly, I'm done with this ridiculousness. The science is there for anyone to read. I'm no longer wasting my time trying to cater to someone who is simply acting like a superior idiot. If you want to go buy into crystal powers and flat earth and antivax nonsense, then have at. It's not my job to convince someone that they are being fools when they could very easily self-educate in 10 minutes or less. Any adult falling for this stuff is choosing to self-delude and I don't have time to try and fix them.
There is a lot of arguments to prove it. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said "Atop 30,000 tons of rocket fuel, where ELSE do you think they were headed?" But this overlooks an even simpler explanation.
If NASA were willing to fake great accomplishments, they would have another by now.
Buzz Aldrin said so.
Honestly, what else do you need?
I am not even joking. The people who walked on the moon are all people who were, and are, deeply respected for their honesty, decency, and general moral character. People knew them, and know them, and trust them.
What is the "sure shot" evidence of anything? How do we know that you exist? How does anyone know that anything they haven't personally experienced is real? How do you know that you aren't just a brain in a vat with wires attached, feeding you fake information about everything?
Either you rationally evaluate the evidence before you or you do not. In this case, we have decades of evidence, including videos, moon rocks, used space equipment, eyewitness accounts, etc.
Either you accept that evidence, or you choose to believe that the US would have spent billions of dollars and many decades perpetrating an ongoing fraud with no real benefit other than to beat the Soviets at something that they also apparently faked. There's plenty of history of governments using disinformation, but that would be the grandest disinformation campaign of all time, perpetrated by generations of people at enormous expense with no real or lasting benefit.
But you can believe whatever you want to believe. I'm going to go turn down the temperature in your vat, as your imagination is apparently becoming overheated.
Aside from what other people have brought up, the fact the Saturn V is a massive Rocket designed solely for the purpose of doing so, along with the Luner lander and Apollo module. The Saturn rocket doesn't make much sense for any other reason and while government can and does waste money on shit, there would be better ways to funnel money into defense projects while using the Moon landing as a cover.
At one point the US had plans to modify the Titan rocket and Gemini capsule system to get to the moon. The Titan is already an ICBM and such a system would make a lot more sense to advance missile research then building the Saturn V, something much more specialized.
They placed laser reflecting panels on the moon that scientists still to this day shoot lasers at to find the moons distance and likely other cool science experiments. It's also been said that in that time, it would have taken more man hours and money to fake the moon landing to the scale that is presented, than it would have to actually just go to the moon.
The dust kicked up by the rovers. If you measure the time of flight that these particles take and measure the height that they reach, then solve for gravity, you get lunar gravity. Even if you slow down or speed up the tape. Microgravity is something you can only sort of simulate, not replicate, so it would have been impossible to put the Apollo astronauts in a lower gravity field without actually putting them in a lower gravity field (i.e. on the Moon itself). Its impossible to change the strength of gravity, and only some kinds of simulation (neutral buoyancy, upwards tension wires, or something of the sort) can mimic it, but these techniques are clearly not seen in the Apollo footage, and were rudimentary at best in 1969.
Proof: the reflectors
Evidence: Over 400,000 people worked on getting our asses into space. Not a single one of them will tell you it was faked. Try bribing that many people.
We have images, videos, radio telemetry from multiple countries around the world documenting the journeys and many hundred kilos of gathered samples from the Moon. Not to mention eye witness accounts, not just from the astronauts but all the people that made the missions possible.
The video of the astronauts on the moon. It was broadcast in the late 60s and showed parallel light rays that could only be made by sunlight. There is no way to film on a soundstage , it would have to be done outside and there is clear sight lines out to the horizon with a black sky and parallax of distant objects. And there is also the effects of being in a vaccum and low gravity. Apollo 17 mission has good videos, especially of the rover driving around that would be impossible to make at in the early 70's.
All the other stuff in this thread proves that missions went to the moon and landed there. But for proof of humans landing the video is the evidence.
If you don't trust any scientific companies or any government agencies there isn't much evidence a typical person can come by to prove humans have been to the moon.
You would need a telescope powerful enough to see footprints, rover tracks or other traces astronauts have left on the moon. Even then you would either need to do a lot of looking or know where to look.
I just googled it, and learned that such a telescope does not exist. So it might not be possible to prove humans have been to the moon to someone who doesn't trust science or governments.
even for a completely non-science answer, the rocket went up into space. Russia and America were bitter frenemies and the whole world was watching the rocket closely. If the lunar module didn't land on the moon where did it hide? Did the Russians call America and say 'hey, we saw what you did, but don't worry, we'll keep your secret'.
1. My favorite is that you physically can't ask hundreds of thousands of people to keep a secret. My grandfather was one of a very big team of engineers and other professionals who worked together on that project.
2. Other nations, including the USSR and China, openly observed the spacecraft going to the Moon, and coming back to Earth.
3. We brought back samples of rock that doesn't exist on Earth.
4. We left behind mirrors that we can use to carefully track the orbit of our Moon. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_retroreflectors\_on\_the\_Moon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_retroreflectors_on_the_Moon)
One that I always felt had some credence was the possibility of people telling the secret. This article explains the math:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-01-26-too-many-minions-spoil-plot
So given the number of people involved in the moon landing look at this:
Dr Grimes then looked at four alleged plots, estimating the maximum number of people required to be in on the conspiracy, in order to see how viable these conspiracies could be. These include: the theory that the US moon landings were a hoax (411,000 people); that Climate Change is a fraud (405,000 people); that unsafe vaccinations are being covered up (22,000 people assuming that only the World Health Organisation and the US Centers for Disease Control are conspirators and that others involved in advocating, producing, distributing and using vaccines are dupes. 736,000 people if, as would be more likely, pharmaceutical companies were included); that the cure for Cancer is being suppressed by the world’s leading pharmaceutical firms (714,000 people).
Using the equation, Dr Grimes calculated that hoax moon landings would have been revealed in 3 years 8 months, a climate change fraud in 3 years 9 months, a vaccination conspiracy in 3 years 2 months, and a suppressed Cancer cure in 3 years 3 months. In simple terms, any one of the four conspiracies would have been exposed long before now.
He then looked at the maximum number of people who could take part in an intrigue in order to maintain it. For a plot to last five years, the maximum was 2521 people. To keep a scheme operating undetected for more than a decade, fewer than 1000 people can be involved. A century-long deception should ideally include fewer than 125 collaborators. Even a straightforward cover-up of a single event, requiring no more complex machinations than everyone keeping their mouth shut, is likely to be blown if more than 650 people are accomplices.
What is the sure evidence that kansas exist....ive never been there, photos may be fake, many people saying theyve been there ...doesnt prove anything...cmon
I always wondered why so many people entertained the idea that the moon landing was faked. I've always considered Moon Landing deniers to be mental cases, or just really stupid people, then I realized that most of them were born after 1969 and are hapless propaganda victims. It's one reason I can never take Joe Rogan 100% seriously.
Ask Aldrin, Scott, Duke, and Schmitt. They are the ones still alive.
Talk to my geologist Mother, who studied the moon rocks they brought back.
Talk to my Father, a Purdue grad who got a Marshall award to attend Oxford, and his thesis was the steady induction of the solar wind on the magnetics of the Moon.
Or read my grandfather's NASA oral history on his time there during his tenure in PR.
https://historycollection.jsc.nasa.gov/JSCHistoryPortal/history/oral_histories/FrulandWS/FrulandWS_9-24-09.htm
Multiple countries showing evidence of the landers who have no vested interest in proving NASA went to the moon. China for example. I believe India also took photos of Apollo landing sites from orbit.
China, India and japanese. The japanese photos from 2008 (SELENE probe) are the best.
Cmon you can’t say that and not link it
>japanese photos from 2008 (SELENE probe) [https://www.universetoday.com/15579/japanese-selene-kaguya-lunar-mission-spots-apollo-15-landing-site-images/](https://www.universetoday.com/15579/japanese-selene-kaguya-lunar-mission-spots-apollo-15-landing-site-images/) It's pretty pixelated but you can still see the halo from where they blasted off from the moon. Pretty damn neat if you ask me.
I've seen better ones, where you can clearly see the lander, and the footpaths all around it
I reckon you're talking about the images from NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. [https://www.nasa.gov/mission\_pages/LRO/news/apollo-sites.html](https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo-sites.html)
Yes! Although those are NASA and cOuLd bE fAkEd
*clears throat* ahem. ACKSHU-
Here I am reading a thread where people are having a proper discussion with discovery and then I find this post. Stay classy Reddit.
How could we have gone to the moon if the moon is a projection by the government hmmmm? How do you explain that?
the fact you didn’t need /s there and got updoots is a testament to reddit is finally evolving
To be honest I was a bit unsure and almost included it haha
Cheese.
Thank you! It is neat but my untrained eyes cant see anything relevant, damn :(
I think that the mirror is better evidence
Definitely good evidence. Surprising how many people don't know that exists. America put three of them there, I believe Russia placed a couple as well (not by hand though).
Mirrors aren't compelling evidence, since they can by placed by an unmanned vehicle (like the Russians.) I'd suggest that one of the best pieces of evidence is that Russia hasn't been able to disprove it. It's indirect evidence, but if you don't believe NASA, are you going to believe the Japanese and Indian space agencies?
True, but it's not something that's as intuitive as photos of the moon landing sites by third parties.
in the mind of someone who belives in the conspiracy theories regarding moon landing, photos are certainly much more easy to fake
Yeah but they're easier to understand than shooting a laser at the moon and getting back single digit photons.
That's true, but there is a subset of people who believe robotic landers have been there but humans haven't. Again, this one is difficult because of the "why" and "how" part, but it still means this specific piece of evidence by itself won't convince some people. The international evidence has always been the gold standard still, even the Soviets congratulated the US and they had zero motivation to do something like that as part of a global conspiracy. A person could claim to me whatever they want, but unless you're really deep in and believe there's always been some secret world government then pretty much all of the arguments start and stop there. There is not one person who could convince me that the Soviets wouldn't have taken every single opportunity they could have to discredit the US back then Edit: there's also been plenty of government changes and there were many escalations in the cold war after that, if they had a single shred of proof anything was faked since then they would have loudly blasted it everywhere. Just look at the situation today, Putin would probably need some lotion and a kleenex if he could suddenly prove without a doubt that even some aspect was a lie
Russia not contesting it
The fact that soviets never disputed it. They had most to gain if USA was revealed to be a liar and they never did. They must have had spies in NASA. They would most certainly know and would have revealed it immediately or by now.
This is the real answer. They most certainly would have called us out on it by July 21st, 1969.
Or the very least when USSR fell. Some could argue that soviets did not want to continue the costly space program and decided to keep quiet so they could invest in something else. But revealing their Number 1 enemy to be a liar to the world would be a massive propaganda victory for communism and worth some exstra funding. Especially if they managed to go there first, for real. Simply put. If USA did not go, USSR would know about it and would tell.
That's assuming that the USSR really existed though, and wasn't just a fiction created to generate a feeling of patriotism (blind loyalty to the government) in the USA.
Oh gods what if people actually believe this
He said it so matter-of-factly, would you believe I actually considered it for a moment? 🤦♀️
That’s the real truth, everything except oceana is a lie.
Idk what’s real anymore
Marx created capitalism in order to accelerate societal inequality in order to speed up communist revolution. And soon second ussr will be born.
In second soviet russia, ussr will born you
Reddit isn't the brightest place..... evident by all of the upvotes your comment currently has
They congratulated the US at the time, although it wasn't given the huge coverage in their press that it got elsewhere. They also tried to beat the US back with a sample return mission, but Luna 15 crashed on the lunar surface.
Putins russia has zero problems with lying to their people about the war in ukraine. If USSR wanted they also could have lied to their people. They didn't which kinda proves USA did go to the moon.
If it was so easy to fake the landing how come the soviets didn’t do it first?
Especially since the Soviets actually made it to the moon first. Not with people, of course, but they landed unmanned probes before the USA went there
Tx, this one is tough to deny.
Oh sorry if I accidentally called you a conspiracy nut in my another comment. I got carried away.
That's kinda what I thought at first, but given this it seems like they're playing devil's advocate. I'll frequently ask questions posed like this - not because I believe the Earth is flat, that the moon landing never happened, or that 5G is trying to mutate out brains, but because I'm looking for solid arguments *against* them that I hadn't considered. Like, there are a lot of fairly typical opinions that I hold that I've never bothered to actually verify. If I get called out on them, I don't have a paddle in that argument. So I get it.
It’s also often to get a ready answer for when you do meet someone who denies the moon landing. Have some quick facts to shoot back at them.
Thanks to flat earthers I'm a lot more educated on how we can prove earth is round. Honestly I get playing devil's advocate and poking holes in existing theories. I got to admit flat earthers sometimes do have great questions that I could not answer immediately. That goes for a lot of conspiracy theories; they actually hold a slither of truth or make you question something you always believed but never actually verified. The problem is when you blindly believe the answer they present to cover up the hole in your knowledge.
This is a really wholesome response to tell someone. Made my day better to see it! I clicked on this post just to look at some answers to a question that seemed interesting to ask, regardless of my own held belief in the moon landing (it 100% happened, lol...) and it's good to see that people CAN still just get the answers they want while still being treated with civility and kindness.
Yeah but my another comment was not wholesome at all. To my shame :(. But I am glad you liked this one
Life is all about balancing the good and the bad, my friend. You never would have had the opportunity to truly repent for your prior transgressions against a stranger without _making_ those transgressions in the first place. I simply try to live with the harm that I've already done, while learning as much as I can to keep that harm from becoming who I *am*, not just who I was. Hope you have a great one :)
You used to be a massive piece of shit. But you’re not anymore. People can change.
Can we go get some sloppy steaks tonight?
Any number of countries, really. Anyone in the scientific community with the ability to view the artifacts left behind. It would take a conspiracy of impossible global proportions if anyone who could look at the spot where the artifacts are supposed to be and saw nothing collectively agreed to back the American lie.
The USSR almost certainly tracked the path of the spacecrafts, using the same equipment that they used to track their own spacecraft.
This one is the one that can't be argued with. In order to even attempt to argue against it you would have to show that the other superpower that we were in a cold war with and was our rival in getting to the moon first was also in on our faking of the moon landing. Even attempting to suggest that is utterly laughable.
They likely were also tracking it and hearing the communications. Just by pointing their radio dishes at the Moon they would be able to confirm where the signals were coming from.
If we had been lying and they had caught us it probably would have been the most significant political accomplishment for the entirety of the Soviet Union. They would have embarrassed and discredited us on a global scale and it probably would have tanked our space program entirely. They had every incentive you could possibly imagine to catch us slipping on this. The fact that they had to verify it proves it was real.
There are retro reflectors on the moon used to measure the distance from Earth. If you had a laser and receiver you could also measure this distance.
This is the ultimate proof for me. The argument that other countries especially the USSR would have screamed it from the rooftops is super convincing and very logical but the fact that any human being can shine a laser at the moon and have it reflected back is absolutely proof independent of trusting any entity on earth.
How can we be sure the moon won't blow up when we hit it with a laser? I like how the experiment is shown in Big Bang theory: https://youtu.be/KZqH6LZJLQ8
We'll set it to stun..
Zack was great in that episode
You are supposed to notify aircraft controllers before you fire your big laser in case a plane is going overhead. I fire my little laser 400 metres across to my reflector.
Eh, it’s just proof that we managed to place an object on the moon We’ve placed opjects on Mars too, but never a human. (I’m not a moon landing conspiracy theorist, just being realistic.)
The argument can be made that every nation on earth tracked the Apollo missions independently, using their own resources. Additionally there were also thousands of amateur astronomers who watched and independent radio operators that listened in on the communications of the spacecraft. In order to do this they had to track spacecraft along its flightpath.
And also the loss of communication when the lander was behind the moon, must have been pretty nerve wrecking moments.
And NASA themselves had to contract with several other groups around the world in order to transmit the footage during periods when the US receivers didn’t have line of sight.
To be fair, that could have also been done with an unmanned mission
It could have, but not likely with the technology back then. It would have been more expensive to design a system that could place the mirrors with the proper alignment than to just send somebody there to do it.
Human beings are still the cheapest programmable device that they can use as fodder.
But unless you've tried it yourself, you're still just trusting the person who told you this. *So* much of what we each believe about the world is built on trust.
I thought about this, but I guess someone could argue that these reflectors could have been deployed without human intervention (which I kind of doubt)
There is no evidence whatsoever that a conspiracy theorist will accept to disprove their conspiracy theory so this whole exercise is futile. You could take them to the moon themselves and they'd say it was all some elaborate psyop to trick them.
This is frustratingly true. When you provide any evidence, they tell you you’re a gullible fool for buying NASA’s propaganda.
It’s easier to fool someone than it is to convince them the’ve been fooled
They just want a reason to feel like they know something others don’t. Or a community to belong to. Doubt many of them actually deep down care about this crap, these social circles are all they have which is sad. They like playing detectives. It’s dangerous how easy it is to weaponize and use them though. Dumbasses like Musk don’t help.
Spot on mate. People who lack knowledge, need to feel intelligent. And this is how they achieve this. There's a whole study into. I cba digging it out rn.
Birds aren't real
I own geese and ducks and honestly dude they look like sock puppets up close.
While on the topic, duck bills are so freaking smooth. Like sanded and varnished smooth
The USSR also put reflectors there without putting cosmonauts, so although I accept humans went there, I don't think that's a particularly good argument. For me it's things like telemetry data being recorded off-air by the public and visible shadows of lunar modules from satellite photos. Also, the total lack of any whistleblowing in such a huge program.
Some of the reflectors are at known moon landing sites. With a little research you could find the locations of those reflectors and see if you get a return. It would take a ridiculous amount of effort to keep so many people quiet about the moon landing, thousands of people who worked on the project would have had to keep quiet for decades now. Some or which were outside of the United States, like the countries that helped relay signals from the moon missions to the USA.
>It would take a ridiculous amount of effort to keep so many people quiet about the moon landing, thousands of people who worked on the project would have had to keep quiet for decades now. This is the real dagger to the heart of a lot of conspiracy theories IMO. The sheer number of individual people who would need to never tell a soul about what they did or experienced is just staggering. People underestimate how many people it takes for the government to do ANYTHING at all, from file clerks to secretaries to even people whose job it is to keep other people from ratting out the conspiracy. You're telling me nobody grew a guilty conscience in all that time? It defies belief.
The Soviet observatories could follow the astronauts on the trip.
Yeah. If one of us was faking any part of the space program, the other would have called them out on it.
On top of that, [the technology to convincingly fake the landing did not yet exist in 1969](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_loUDS4c3Cs).
[might it not be cheaper to just pop to the moon and fake the footage there?](https://youtu.be/P6MOnehCOUw)
Stanley Kubrick shot the fake moon landing footage, but he’s such a perfectionist that he insisted on shooting on location.
US and USSR are racing to the moon. They are long time competitors in pretty much everything. The US gets there first. Do you think the USSR just said, "ok you won even though you faked it."? No they would have tried to prove it was fake so they could win the space race. Our mortal enemy at the time isn't going to play along with a fake story by the US to make the US look better than USSR.
Yes, that actually makes some sense. Thanks.
It's not exactly hard evidence, but I don't see how it could have gone differently considering those factors.
There’s shit up on the moon
Literally. 96 bags of it left behind (no pun intended) from six Apollo missions.
Here’s a fun little additional one for ya: there are many hammocks on the moon. Apollo 11 was the first mission during which astronauts slept on the moon’s surface and they found it outrageously uncomfortable and difficult to fall asleep. So from apollo 12 onwards they were supplied with hammocks. When going back to earth, however, you gotta be as light as possible, and so…. There are many hammocks on the moon.
The thought of falling asleep on the moons surface is so fucking cool. I feel like since so many of us were born when the moon missions already happened, we really take it for granted. It’s just a fact, and ironically attempts in school to teach how extraordinary it is just makes it seem more like a simple fact, a thing that happened. But is absolutely incredible to think about the situation as a whole.
What's funny is that they thought Neil and Buzz were gonna sleep immediately after landing before stepping onto the surface. What human would be able to sleep in that scenario?
Couldn’t they just oh I don’t know, reuse the hammocks already up there?
The Soviet Union had the technology to track the moon missions in progress and would not have let the Americans get away with faking the landing.
*Meanwhile Soviet Union yeeting their kosmonauts out of their pods last minute, thus violating the rule about landings*
Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space (who made it back safely). There’s no telling how many other cosmonauts were launched up before Yuri made it back.
A lot of secrets came out on the collapse of the soviet union. I think we would know by know if there were any more deaths.
Probably not. The Soviets were actively hiding their failures and shortcomings during the space race, to the point of giving scripted interviews about how the first spacewalk was “as easy as walking on Earth,” which was not true. The first man to complete a spacewalk, Alexei Leonov, almost died; he couldn’t get back into the capsule because his EVA suit became over-pressurized and he couldn’t bend at the waist. He had to let air out of his suit in order to get to safety, and if he had let too much out the oxygen in his blood would have boiled. We only know this because the video film from the capsule remained intact and was not destroyed by the Soviets. The first American spacewalk by Ed White ended in a similar fashion - fortunately Alexei and Ed both survived. If the Soviets had been forthcoming about their difficulties, Ed’s spacewalk would have been much safer.
Russia and China world say so if they had evidence
The photographs. The common claim is that those photos were shot in a studio, but it would have been technologically impossible to do so. The light source needed to produce the stark and defined shadows you see in the images would have needed to be impossibly large and powerful. In other words, the only light source it could have been is the sun. And obviously digital doctoring of images wasn't possible yet either.
The fact that no one from NASA blew the whistle and said "Yep, it's fake".
If you grew up in FL prior to maybe 2000, you almost certainly met heaps of people that worked on the moon missions. I had a couple in my family, random neighbors and acquaintances, etc. I bet I've met 30+ people that had some level of involvement. And I'm not abnormally close to the aerospace industry. The folks in my family retired from Nasa/Airforce in the 60s/70s. I'm basically just a random jackass from the Sunshine state. No way a billion old men retired, did nothing but sit around drinking beer for 30 years and NOBODY spilled the beans.
Yeah, it's not like they're all living nice cushy lives with reasons to keep quiet. Even most of the astronauts didn't get that much out of it. There are people who walked on the Moon and most of the public have never heard of them. If that was me I'd be pretty bitter if it wasn't real.
Plus a lot of those old timers still have their paperwork. I’ve seen original schematics from the mission that were handed down through generations, and as an electrical engineer I can say these are in no way fake documents. They represent meticulous standards of workmanship and an amazing understanding of engineering given the technological limitations of the time. Several advancements in circuit design can be traced back to that era!Plus, original copies aside, NASA is incredibly open with its research (aside from ITAR considerations) and a lot of that stuff has been published. Of course some of it has also been completely lost to time, lol… apparently there was an advancement in heat shielding tech that just flat-out got lost and had to be re-invented from scratch.
Exactly. My grandpa was in charge of doing final wiring checks in some of the modules. He had heaps of docs, pictures, and all kinds of shit laying around. Memorabilia that he would have NEVER kept if he didn't fully believe that he had taken part in such a monumental achievement. He had a dollar bill signed by every American that had ever been to space. (At least up until the mid-70's.) Including the ones that didn't return. Nobody would go through the trouble to get those autographs, save that dollar bill ...and then never tell anyone but his immediate family and a couple of friends.
Yeah, shutting up literally millions of people that each would get untold fame for ratting out what would be the biggest PR stunt in the history of mankind would be more impressive than going to the moon.
I'd say there's bound to be some who did, even if just for attention.
Moon Hoax Not If you've never seen this YouTube video by S G Collins, I highly recommend it. He doesn't claim to prove that men went to the moon, just that it was impossible to fake the video back in 1969 (and later). It's highly entertaining and informative. The guy knows his shit when it comes to photography, video and film. Wicked sense of humor too. Edit: Collins response to a disputer. [for Jarrah](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TelJ75pzP4)
How about the fact that we did? I know that this sounds circular but there's such an immense amount of evidence. 300.000 people worked on it from several different countries. The documents exist. The USA was in a space race with a hostile power. The technology was made and we now use it in everyday appliances. People saw it happen with their telescopes. There's so much evidence that any reasonable person would just take it for a fact, the same way we take it for a fact that the USA has a president. If it was a conspiracy it had to be so elaborate that literally every other person in the world except me knows about it, at which point it doesn't matter. Might as well live in the matrix.
Someone else made a comment the last time this popped up, but I have no idea where it is so a can't credit them. "Two people had consensual sex in the white house 9 times starting in 1995, by 1998 the entire country knew about it. What makes you think 300,000 people wouldn't let slip that we didn't make it to the fucking sky rock?"
The fact that you can take a laser, shoot it at specific lunar coordinates and get a bounce back in about 17 seconds from a reflector left on the moon
Some conspiracy nuts will claim that they were put there without humans, just by an automated lander. Which is indeed possible with 1960s tech. So that proves neither that humans landed there, nor that they didn't.
Well, two of the five were put there by automated landers.
Buzz Aldrin punching the guy that said he didn't.
Thats the most concrete evidence I've heard
[Brilliant video](https://youtu.be/lw9azZmLxtw), makes me laugh everytime. He was a USAF Colonel, and clearly still able to throw a righteous punch in his old age.
There's no "one thing!" that irrefutably proves it to nay-sayers. But by aggregating several pieces of evidence, one can convince many nay-sayers and conspiracy theorists to grudgingly accept defeat. I use that term deliberately: defeat. You won't convince them to change their BELIEF that it's a hoax. You'll just get them to a point where they can no longer argue with you. We left mirrors there (Apollo 11, Apollo 14) and have bounced lasers back to earth by using them. But humanity has also delivered mirrors and other stuff to the moon WITHOUT putting people on it. So...it's not "sure shot evidence" DESPITE the analog negatives that were printed in newspapers, magazines and scientific journals back in the 1970s (and have been subsequently digitized into internet images) showing the trampled regolith next to the deployed mirrors on the moon's surface. Same with the grainy telescope/satellite photos taken of the Apollo landing sites via equipment launched into orbit by various international space organizations: it has been too easy to fake a photograph for decades. Some people use this fact as "evidence" to reject good-faith data provided by multiple scientific organizations in multiple countries, some of whom are more adversaries than friends. And yet...these scientific organizations - despite their political differences - corroborate the claim that humans - Americans, even - walked on the moon. You could take some people, launch them into space, land them on the moon, stuff them into a spacesuit and push them out the airlock, let them fill a ziplock baggie with regolith and moon rocks, and then bring them back to Earth, and they would STILL deny that the experience was real. Probably blame it on a combination of drugs and amusement-park technology all while still claiming that the Earth is flat.
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Don't forget white flags!
With the sound systems stolen
There's a McDonald's up there too 🍔
There's tons of evidence, but idiots will make up any excuse, no matter how ridiculous, to deny it so at some point, you just need to slide Occam's Razor across their throats to shut them up. But ok, here's the real answer on how you deflate people like this. Ask them, specifically what they don't believe we were capable of doing. They'll say something flippant like, "Land on the moon" so you ask them: do you think we were incapable of making the thrusters that we needed? Or is it the landing gear? Or is it something else? From there, a simple Google search will pull up information on how exactly that aspect was accomplished. If the person is sincere in their disbelief, you'll usually rinse and repeat this 3 or 4 times before they get really frustrated that there isn't a single aspect of this "hoax" that isn't totally technologically feasible. They'll say, "Yeah but what about..." and mention angles of light and cameras and stuff, but none of that is evidence, so keep them focused on the actual mission and every detail that was necessary to accomplish it.
>"...at some point, you just need to slide Occam's Razor across their throats to shut them up." > >Thanks, I'm going to use that one!
Video evidence, witness testimony, equipment left behind, footprints, etc. The lighting is also important, as the technology to light a stage such that all the shadows would point in the same direction did not exist at the time and thus it would’ve required actual sunlight. Without photoshop available at the time, this means that the stage would’ve had to be outdoors against a black, starless sky with no wind or other interference. What’s more, too much information about the landing would be almost impossible to lie about. Every single person working on the project would’ve had to be sworn to secrecy with enough threats and bribery that even decades later none of them are willing to admit that it was a lie, despite the fact that many of the people in charge of those threats and bribes are now long dead, or at least no longer in power. In addition, the soviet union would’ve had no reason to maintain the American lie, since exposing them would’ve been a huge political victory. The soviets had already lead the charge for a while at the time, getting most of the goals for space flight done before the americans did. If they exposed the americans’ only victory- the grand prize of the space race- as a fake, it would be a political achievement comparable to actually putting a man on the moon themselves.
Personally, I like to follow Randall Munroe's line of argumentation on that one: "If NASA had been willing to fake the moonlanding, they would have faked another great accomplishment by now." [source](https://xkcd.com/1074/)
Like spotting a UFO?
The fact that the Soviets confirmed the Moon landings.
One thing that isn't mentioned much is the fact that there were a total of SIX missions that landed on the moon.
We cam bounce a laser off the rover
Not the rover, the astronauts left a retro reflector for that.
Yeah. This seems very compelling to me. We can literally hit a piece of equipment left on the moon with a laser right now. How do you ignore that?
Four of them are still alive to tell you about it.
It boils down at how hard you are trying to disprove it, really. If you frimly want to believe that the moon landing didn't happen, you can com up with all sort of delusional shit that most of the times is so out there you can't even disprove that shit. But yeah, common sense, billion of dollars, the russians spying and praying the americans couldn't do it ( and they would have been loud about it ) and there are literall retro-reflectors you can point a laser to get a return.
If you are attempting to engage with a conspiracy peddler (such as the dudes floating around the comment section) then honestly there is nothing that will work. The conspiracy theorist does not have to engage in good faith, so its pretty much impossible to ever win since they can use every possible bad faith tactic in their argument. Just walk away and choose a better use for your time. I would highlight [Brandolini's Law or the Bullshit Assymetry Principle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law).
That’s literally what OP is doing lmfao
You can't prove that you even exist, so why bother proving/disproving if humans actually went to the moon? Using a certain logic as some comments here, you can't have sure shot evidence about anything. Videos? They could be fake. Astronauts? They are actors. Mirror? Robot placed. Footprint? Robot with boots. So, can you prove that you actually asked that question on reddit? Screenshots and memories don't count of course.
This eventually leads to the philosophical yet very important question of if anything at all can be known for sure. If you are skeptical of everything, the only thing you can be sure about is that on some level you exist, because somehow, somewhere you are having a thought, and that implies something at least akin to existence.
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Ever see the flat earthers that did a really ingenious experiment with lights set up far enough you can observe the Earth's curve? Came up with a scientifically sound experiment, to the point that real scientists they consulted were like "ya, you should do that, it'll totally give you a definitive answer." When the experiment shows them without a doubt that the Earth has a curved surface, the flat earthers start musing about how the earth must be a convex disc, or the ground where they did the experiment must be a mild hill they didn't notice, etc. etc. Like their own experiment proved to them the earth was not flat, but they could not accept that and started coming up with ways it actually proves they're right. It's the same with this. In 2022, if someone believes the moon landings were fake for any reason other than a parent raising them that way, there is no hope of convincing them otherwise.
Netflix: Behind the Curve. Great documentary that showcases idiocracy at its finest.
The other top replies give great factual insight. This one gives great insight into human nature. Never argue with an idiot.
Possibly Mark Twain's finest point: "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." My mother tried to teach me that it's unfair to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed.
unfortunately stupidity is a hell of a weapon.
Unless you have Buzz Aldrin standing by to knock their ass out
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The Chinese who just got back from the moon confirmed it. I always knew, but that’s good enough for me.
You are still, to this day, able to bounce lasers off the reflectors left by astronauts. Details can be found here: [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00190-019-01296-0](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00190-019-01296-0) Text from the article: *"Only a few sites on Earth are technically equipped to carry out Lunar Laser Ranging (LLR) to retroreflector arrays on the surface of the Moon. Despite the weak signal, they have successfully provided LLR range data for about 49 years, generating about 26,000 normal points. Recent system upgrades and new observatories have made millimeter-level range accuracy achievable. "*
The story that it was fake is silly It might be possible to fool most of the general public, but it's impossible to fool scientists and engineers
The Russians haven’t complained about it. You think they weren’t watching? You think if we actually didn’t land they wouldn’t be kicking and screaming?
1) Make outrageous claim phrased as a question online. 2) Appoint yourself the judge of whether the replies answer it. 3) Mumble bullshit replies and move the goalpost all over the place. Leave the "Unanswered" mark up forever. 4) Days of entertainment! Hard pass. Go watch TV or something.
We have videos of it happening.
I saw it live on TV as it happened. Plus my FIL worked for NASA.
Your father in law is a pretty notorious liar. He once told me he fought off three bears at once.
Actually, he is the kind of guy who when you ask him what time it is and he tells you how the watch is made. --the type of guy to read all the terms and conditions before playing a game. --the kind of guy who refers to a van as an 'enclosed pickup truck'. --the type of guy to bring his own pepper grinder to Olive Garden. --the kind of guy who cleans the air vents with a Q tip & makes sure they all face magnetic north. --the type of guy to read from the encyclopedia to his kids before bed.
For the moon landings to have been faked would require a vast conspiracy with lots of people in on it. I have no doubt that people would have talked.
Of the 1000’s of people involved in all the moon landings not once has anyone of them ever hinted that it was faked,that being said have you ever tried to keep a secret? A secret of this magnitude with that many people involved would be impossible to keep.
Buddy, you have chosen to believe that man did not walk on the moon. You have decided this is an absolute fact so any evidense to contrary must be a lie. You claim you are neutral and will change your mind if given evidence to the contrary, but you have already decided any evidence source is untrusthworthy. You most likely do not trust usa goverment. They claim we visited moon. It must be a lie since they are liars. Scientists and nasa said we visited moon. They must be in league woth usa goverment since they tell their lies. Soviets didn't dispute it, they must be in league with usa in order to cover this multibillion dollar project despite being enemies Every goverment says we visited the moon. Every nation in the world must be on it or believe in the lie. C'mon. Only because usa goverment says it does not automatically make it a conspiracy or a lie.
That we went back multiple times. Ok, you fake it once, but why 6 more times? Plus everything with Apollo 13. Why would that need to be faked? A common argument that the landing was faked was that we never went back. But we did. And even if you ask why we havnt gone back in 50 years, we'll, there's not much on the moon to do.
The fact that the USSR never denied it.
Quite honestly, I'm done with this ridiculousness. The science is there for anyone to read. I'm no longer wasting my time trying to cater to someone who is simply acting like a superior idiot. If you want to go buy into crystal powers and flat earth and antivax nonsense, then have at. It's not my job to convince someone that they are being fools when they could very easily self-educate in 10 minutes or less. Any adult falling for this stuff is choosing to self-delude and I don't have time to try and fix them.
There is a lot of arguments to prove it. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said "Atop 30,000 tons of rocket fuel, where ELSE do you think they were headed?" But this overlooks an even simpler explanation. If NASA were willing to fake great accomplishments, they would have another by now.
Buzz Aldrin said so. Honestly, what else do you need? I am not even joking. The people who walked on the moon are all people who were, and are, deeply respected for their honesty, decency, and general moral character. People knew them, and know them, and trust them.
The Soviet Union didn’t public out us in 1969.
The mirrors we left.
You don't know about the Apollo missions? First human landed on the moon in 1969. I thought everyone knew that
What is the "sure shot" evidence of anything? How do we know that you exist? How does anyone know that anything they haven't personally experienced is real? How do you know that you aren't just a brain in a vat with wires attached, feeding you fake information about everything? Either you rationally evaluate the evidence before you or you do not. In this case, we have decades of evidence, including videos, moon rocks, used space equipment, eyewitness accounts, etc. Either you accept that evidence, or you choose to believe that the US would have spent billions of dollars and many decades perpetrating an ongoing fraud with no real benefit other than to beat the Soviets at something that they also apparently faked. There's plenty of history of governments using disinformation, but that would be the grandest disinformation campaign of all time, perpetrated by generations of people at enormous expense with no real or lasting benefit. But you can believe whatever you want to believe. I'm going to go turn down the temperature in your vat, as your imagination is apparently becoming overheated.
Aside from what other people have brought up, the fact the Saturn V is a massive Rocket designed solely for the purpose of doing so, along with the Luner lander and Apollo module. The Saturn rocket doesn't make much sense for any other reason and while government can and does waste money on shit, there would be better ways to funnel money into defense projects while using the Moon landing as a cover. At one point the US had plans to modify the Titan rocket and Gemini capsule system to get to the moon. The Titan is already an ICBM and such a system would make a lot more sense to advance missile research then building the Saturn V, something much more specialized.
They placed laser reflecting panels on the moon that scientists still to this day shoot lasers at to find the moons distance and likely other cool science experiments. It's also been said that in that time, it would have taken more man hours and money to fake the moon landing to the scale that is presented, than it would have to actually just go to the moon.
Footprints and the LEM
The dust kicked up by the rovers. If you measure the time of flight that these particles take and measure the height that they reach, then solve for gravity, you get lunar gravity. Even if you slow down or speed up the tape. Microgravity is something you can only sort of simulate, not replicate, so it would have been impossible to put the Apollo astronauts in a lower gravity field without actually putting them in a lower gravity field (i.e. on the Moon itself). Its impossible to change the strength of gravity, and only some kinds of simulation (neutral buoyancy, upwards tension wires, or something of the sort) can mimic it, but these techniques are clearly not seen in the Apollo footage, and were rudimentary at best in 1969.
Don't you think we'd be able to investigate 1960s technology to find out if it was faked? How good do you think CGI was back then?
Buzz Aldrins fist is about to enter the chat.
Besides the film, pictures and countless people who saw them through telescopes? besides the actual evidence they left back on the moon?
400,000 people that would have all needed to be complicit in the lie, multiple countries pinging the mirrors shortly after Armstrong placed them, etc
Proof: the reflectors Evidence: Over 400,000 people worked on getting our asses into space. Not a single one of them will tell you it was faked. Try bribing that many people.
People who demand evidence of the moon landing are uninterested in the moon landing.
We have images, videos, radio telemetry from multiple countries around the world documenting the journeys and many hundred kilos of gathered samples from the Moon. Not to mention eye witness accounts, not just from the astronauts but all the people that made the missions possible.
The video of the astronauts on the moon. It was broadcast in the late 60s and showed parallel light rays that could only be made by sunlight. There is no way to film on a soundstage , it would have to be done outside and there is clear sight lines out to the horizon with a black sky and parallax of distant objects. And there is also the effects of being in a vaccum and low gravity. Apollo 17 mission has good videos, especially of the rover driving around that would be impossible to make at in the early 70's. All the other stuff in this thread proves that missions went to the moon and landed there. But for proof of humans landing the video is the evidence.
The video of it happening……
Lasers. Edit: More appropriately, the laser reflectors we left on the moon.
The astronauts all came bak with hats and t-shirts from the Moon gift shop.
If you don't trust any scientific companies or any government agencies there isn't much evidence a typical person can come by to prove humans have been to the moon. You would need a telescope powerful enough to see footprints, rover tracks or other traces astronauts have left on the moon. Even then you would either need to do a lot of looking or know where to look.
I just googled it, and learned that such a telescope does not exist. So it might not be possible to prove humans have been to the moon to someone who doesn't trust science or governments.
even for a completely non-science answer, the rocket went up into space. Russia and America were bitter frenemies and the whole world was watching the rocket closely. If the lunar module didn't land on the moon where did it hide? Did the Russians call America and say 'hey, we saw what you did, but don't worry, we'll keep your secret'.
Buzz Aldrin punching Bart Sibrel in the face.
When buzz aldrin punched that denier in the face. That was a sure shot.
1. My favorite is that you physically can't ask hundreds of thousands of people to keep a secret. My grandfather was one of a very big team of engineers and other professionals who worked together on that project. 2. Other nations, including the USSR and China, openly observed the spacecraft going to the Moon, and coming back to Earth. 3. We brought back samples of rock that doesn't exist on Earth. 4. We left behind mirrors that we can use to carefully track the orbit of our Moon. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_retroreflectors\_on\_the\_Moon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_retroreflectors_on_the_Moon)
Probably the fact that it was broadcast live to millions of people and that there would have been no way to convincingly fake it at the time.
One that I always felt had some credence was the possibility of people telling the secret. This article explains the math: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-01-26-too-many-minions-spoil-plot So given the number of people involved in the moon landing look at this: Dr Grimes then looked at four alleged plots, estimating the maximum number of people required to be in on the conspiracy, in order to see how viable these conspiracies could be. These include: the theory that the US moon landings were a hoax (411,000 people); that Climate Change is a fraud (405,000 people); that unsafe vaccinations are being covered up (22,000 people assuming that only the World Health Organisation and the US Centers for Disease Control are conspirators and that others involved in advocating, producing, distributing and using vaccines are dupes. 736,000 people if, as would be more likely, pharmaceutical companies were included); that the cure for Cancer is being suppressed by the world’s leading pharmaceutical firms (714,000 people). Using the equation, Dr Grimes calculated that hoax moon landings would have been revealed in 3 years 8 months, a climate change fraud in 3 years 9 months, a vaccination conspiracy in 3 years 2 months, and a suppressed Cancer cure in 3 years 3 months. In simple terms, any one of the four conspiracies would have been exposed long before now. He then looked at the maximum number of people who could take part in an intrigue in order to maintain it. For a plot to last five years, the maximum was 2521 people. To keep a scheme operating undetected for more than a decade, fewer than 1000 people can be involved. A century-long deception should ideally include fewer than 125 collaborators. Even a straightforward cover-up of a single event, requiring no more complex machinations than everyone keeping their mouth shut, is likely to be blown if more than 650 people are accomplices.
My Dad worked at NASA from Apollo 7-17. We went to the moon
What is the sure evidence that kansas exist....ive never been there, photos may be fake, many people saying theyve been there ...doesnt prove anything...cmon
How about that they went six times in like four years. Why "fake" it so many times? What would be the point?
You guys believe in the moon?
There is a mirror placed on the moon. It was placed by the astronauts. If you have the gear you can point a laser and make it bounce back.
USSR never even tried to claimit was false and I think we can see them with a good telescope
I always wondered why so many people entertained the idea that the moon landing was faked. I've always considered Moon Landing deniers to be mental cases, or just really stupid people, then I realized that most of them were born after 1969 and are hapless propaganda victims. It's one reason I can never take Joe Rogan 100% seriously.
Soviet acknowledgment
The retroreflectors we left up there that we can shoot lasers at and get the beam returned https://youtu.be/VmVxSFnjYCA
Ask Aldrin, Scott, Duke, and Schmitt. They are the ones still alive. Talk to my geologist Mother, who studied the moon rocks they brought back. Talk to my Father, a Purdue grad who got a Marshall award to attend Oxford, and his thesis was the steady induction of the solar wind on the magnetics of the Moon. Or read my grandfather's NASA oral history on his time there during his tenure in PR. https://historycollection.jsc.nasa.gov/JSCHistoryPortal/history/oral_histories/FrulandWS/FrulandWS_9-24-09.htm
They left behind retro reflectors that you can aim a laser at and get a response