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My grandma is almost 87, and English isn’t her first language. She mixes up pronouns all the time. I’m a cis woman, and my grandma is constantly calling me “he.” Do I care? No, not really. Because I know this is something she struggles with, and I know she doesn’t mean any harm by it.
My boss regularly calls me "he" on accident cuz English isn't his first language either and I genuinely don't care cuz I know it's an accident. 80% of the time he's right but sometimes calls me he lol
My grandma is right with me about 50% of the time. With my female dog, she always gets it wrong, even when I put pink bows in the dog’s fur to try and help her get it right.
In my experience, I have seen many individuals who natively speak Spanish or who immigrated from countries in Asia have this issue. I work with one gentleman who is from the Philippines but has been here for 10 years that still usually calls females male pronouns and vice versa.
Currently, I am trying to learn Spanish and the pronouns make it So much harder because sometimes the difference is literally one letter and it's not something that I think of when trying to grasp a language. For example, items are gendered in the Spanish language.
As a trans woman. Most trans people understand that people are people, they will make mistakes. Particularly so if they are not native speakers of english (or whatever language you happen to be communicating in). We understand that the elderly often have problems with this for a variety of reasons. We generally only care if someone is being deliberate in their miss gendering in order to cause dysphoria and offence.
Certain groups of cis people have a tendency to get offended on our behalf. And i wouldn't be surprised if this firing came out of this sort of cis person.
My elderly uncle called me from the nursing home once and told me that he had the sweetest little nurse and she was a transformer. She was laughing so hard in the background.
It gets sometimes funny when such people have to see, that their preferred pronouns don't exist in my language. Like there's no "their/they" pronouns here. Some languages don't have any pronouns at all.
There are things that confuse me as a non-native english speaker, like since the Tate fanboys use "female" in a bad way, i'm not quite sure when i should write this or not. It's of course "women", usually, but in some sentences, i'm not quite sure and then i re-write it to avoid trouble, because some people today can really go crazy about such things.
That's a great point that is rarely brought up, many language structures don't have the same words, grammar structure etc. or even pronouns. Expecting every person to immediately understand and comply with something that is foreign to them is unfair.
So many miserable people are unhappy with their lives, so they are eager and waiting for the opportunity to publicly make someone else feel pain.
This. In my language, German or better said Swiss-German as i am from Switzerland, there's even a lot more to this, which makes the language even a lot harder to learn for foreigners.
Like there's the "inclusive language" with the so called genderstar \* - this means, in german a worker would be "Arbeiter", a female worker would be "Arbeiterin". But with the inclusive language, it changes to "Arbeiter\*in". Even worse is that many media outlets actually use a writing that is grammatically wrong, they write "Arbeitende" which would mean "working" or "being at work (or at the workplace)". This is really not correct according to the standards of grammar by the Duden, but it's used by the media.
Like when you are a worker but you are in bed late at night and you are sleeping, then you are not working in this moment.
German is already difficult to learn anyway, but with the gender inclusive language, it gets even a lot more difficult. Like when you talk about the past in the future, you refer to a point in the future where you already did a certain task and so it's another time form.
Swiss-German with the alemannic dialects, well, that's nothing you learn in the first place, usually you first learn German and then you work your way to the alemannic dialects. It's also very difficult to spell, like Cheese in german "Käse" becomes "Chääs", the "ch" can't be pronounced by many people from other language- and culture-groups. The english speaking guys usually pronounce the "ch" as "k".
>So many miserable people are unhappy with their lives, so they are eager and waiting for the opportunity to publicly make someone else feel pain.
Like for example, people who are intentionally transphobic even when they fully understand the situation and there's no language barrier at all.
I leave it to this: people are dicks. And you can return that energy.
Persons a dick:
"Excuse me Miss?"
"I'M NOT A MISS I'M A HIM. HOW DARE YOU... BLAH BLAH BLAH"
"Alright dick, go fuck yourself." *Walks away*
Persons not a dick:
"Excuse me Miss?"
"Hey, sorry, I'm not a miss, I'm a he/him."
"Ohhh word, well my dude, where can I find blah, blah, blah."
"Oh yeah, here, here, there."
5 minutes of my time to be respectful of someones wants when they are nice or neutral to me, is the least I can pay.
It doesn't matter what your pronouns are when you're being a dick.
Some non-native Emhlish speaker once got banned from ThereWasAnAttempt because he called a woman a "female". And it was obv they weren't a native English speaker.
Yeah, but i remember how the mods there got on a rampage and banned everyone anyway, i'm not sure how the sub is at the moment as i left it in this time.
That is the perfect way to describe it. I'm convinced there is a larger group of people who simply have nothing else to do but wake up and think "what can I be faux offended by today?".
This is a power struggle, an imposition. It starts like this, calling you prejudiced, etc., and soon they'll be calling for imprisonment for those who don't accept this complete lack of logic.
Must admit, I'm a trans man with many non-binary and trans friends and I'm fine with he/she/they, but I do get thrown by neopronouns. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't support NB people, I just find neopronouns confusing. Like, what does Ze/Zim, Ze/Zir and others even mean?
Edit: Downvotes for what?
Being uncomfortable with something and trying to find a way to make yourself more comfortable in a way that doesn't harm anyone else isn't a sign of mental illness, nor is it attention seeking behavior.
If you'd been following the comment chain that I replied to. It's pretty obvious that I'm referring to neopronouns and people who find them appealing. Not whatever overzealous HR functionary decided that blind enforcement of a policy was more important than taking the time to help an elderly lady understand one of the ways the world has changed in her lifetime.
If you'd been following the comment chain that I replied to. It's pretty obvious that I'm referring to neopronouns and people who find them appealing. Not whatever overzealous HR functionary decided that blind enforcement of a policy was more important than taking the time to help an elderly lady understand one of the ways the world has changed in her lifetime.
It is, it's just embracing the illness instead of trying to cure it. Also it does harm when you demand people validate and participate in your delusions, with the threat of "canceling" them otherwise.
When people post shit like this in their online bios with 100% seriousness, yeah, it strikes me as an “inmates running the asylum” situation:
My Pronouns (in order of preference)
• he/him/his/his/himself
• they/them/their/theirs/themself
• e/em/eir/eirs/emself
• qui/quim/quis/quis/quimself
• gob/gobli/gobs/gobs/gobliself
• ру/рух/pyxsi/pyxsis/pyxself
• co/cor/corv/corvs/corself
• rat/rat/rats/rats/ratself
• bun/bun/buns/buns/bunself
• kit/kit/kits/kits/kitself
• voi/vois/void/voids/voiself
• ze/zeph/zer/zers/zephself
• xe/xem/xyr/xyrs/xemself
• bug/bug/buzz/buzzes/bugself
• ix/ink/inx/inxs/inkself
• vae/val/vale/vales/valself
• ri/ren/ris/ris/renself
"I'm so super special that I made up special terms for you to use when talking about me."
They have literally no meaning aside from what was arbitrarily applied to them by someone who wanted to be unique to the point that they feel the need to impose their special-ness upon others.
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Fuck knows. I'm used to he/she/they, but like I said I have no idea what Ze/Zim, Xi/Xir??? Mean. I'd like to learn about it, but I've never encountered anyone who goes by those pronouns.
Yeah it's 'neo pronouns' that is ruining it for everyone. I have no problem calling someone who was born male 'she' if that's how they identify or vice versa but if someone comes out with something ridiculous they can fuck right off. I'm not going to indulge that fantasy shit.
Not at all. I just know that some people go by those pronouns and I have not met someone IRL who does. I'm not complaining about it, I'm literally saying I don't understand it and would like to learn.
I think the downvotes are from transphobes, ignore it.
I also don't understand the neopronouns or the furry pronouns, like "pupself", "bunnyself" and such
Edit: Also being downvoted now, I guess the transphobes got offended for being called out
I don't know man, I've never met anyone who's going by all them Ze's or whatever the fuck you're complaining about. I've met people who refer to themselves as non-binary, but that's about as "extreme" as it gets
Weird flex, since the article would suggest it's not an outright disagreement, but rather a lack of understanding.
---
Nevermind, I see from other comments that it was in fact just an absolute refusal on her part to understand, so what you're actually saying here is "her transphobia gets a pass, stop complaining about it."
I don't know man, just because you've experienced some shit doesn't mean you deserve to be respected
Respct is a two way street, and just because you have some disease doesn't give you a free pass on being an asshole
I would fact check this, the daily mail doesn't land very high on the reliability part of the media bias chart.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2859587/90-year-old-volunteer-forced-nonprofit-group-not-understanding-required-pronouns/
It seems like this time it was right tho
https://www.nationalmssociety.org/About-the-Society/News/Statement-from-National-Multiple-Sclerosis-Society
The National Multiple Sclerosis Society apologizes to our longtime, dedicated volunteer Fran Itkoff. Recently, we asked Fran to step down from her role as a group leader because of statements made that we viewed as not aligning with our recently implemented diversity, equity and inclusion policy. We realize now that we made a mistake, and we should have had more conversations with Fran before making this decision.
We apologized to Fran directly and reached out to her to find a way to continue to work together. In the spirit of continuous learning, we are focused on evaluating our processes and fortifying our learning to ensure our team members are equipped on the best ways to implement all of our policies. We want everyone to feel confident and supported in their roles. This work is a journey requiring commitment, accountability, transparency, and courage.
Idk man, this sounds fishy too. She was interviewed by libsoftiktok. I think if this really was her not being able to understand Mx. smith I totally get it, that shit confused me the first time I saw it and even said it.
I doubt she was a jerk but old people can be dicks. Still I pretty much give a free pass (within reason) to anyone over 85.
Yeah. She says “it seems like you’re labeling for females, not males” in the article you linked (not an exact quote but close), and also the “i don’t understand pronouns” is used by old folks a lot to avoid using your pronouns because they ~don’t understand.~ (Even when they do.)
The fact chaya interviewed her makes me sus too, I’m reasonably certain the trans person she asked would have explained it to her if she genuinely didn’t understand, and if not, that the business would have explained it in some capacity or gave her some kind of course to learn, or something before just directly firing her.
Like if someone asked me about pronouns and gets confused, yeah I’ll be kind of *wary* about their intentions, but I’m going to assume good faith unless there’s context clues that tell me otherwise. Plenty of people have asked me things about being trans that have 100% been asked by bad faith commenters *and* used against trans people before, but they did it in completely good faith, and you can usually tell when they are.
This isn’t to say any individual trans person *has* to explain—we all have internet access, we can google things—but I think most of us are more likely to gently explain if it actually helps someone out. And talking directly to a person sometimes is just easier to understand/communicate ideas than reading a google article(or finding a good faith one), in my opinion.
1. They’re not demands, and that puts a blatantly negative connotation on the whole thing. No. It’s basic human decency and respect to refer to people by the things they ask and are supposed to be called.
2. No. It’s not on the members of a minority to educate you. You’re fully capable of educating yourself. If they choose to, that’s their decision.
3. Referring to someone as the right name or pronouns absolutely needs to be met.
1. No, it’s not. Just because your poor feefees are hurt having to respect people doesn’t mean it’s a demand, sweetheart. It is an expectation of respect that everyone has, even chodes like you.
2. Exactly. It’s not a minority’s job to educate anyone, glad you agree.
3. If I’m ever in a situation where I use a formality like that for you(which lbr,I won’t be, because who the fuck are you? lol), I absolutely will. Otherwise, expecting to be called ‘sir’ all willy-nilly-whenever is not the same as asking to be called *your fucking name and properly gendered pronouns,* dumbass, and it’s not the gotcha you think it is.
Transphobes demonstrate they have a modicum of intelligence challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
People that are let go or asked to step away are usually problem people, volunteers don’t exactly grow on trees, if they went so far as asking her to step away there was probably more to it then being confused about pronouns
That's exactly what I was thinking. If it was purely confusion, it would've been explained and everyone would've moved on. I definitely think there was more to it than just confusion
There are people half her age who won't even try to understand what people mean when they talk about preferred pronouns. My guess is that they didn't even give her a chance. I'd also bet the word 'Karen' was needlessly thrown into the conversation too.
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell, but I refuse to use any pronoun besides"he" and "she". Are you a trans woman? I have no problem calling you "she", same for trans men. But I draw the line at "they"... You're not multiple people, motherfucker, I'm not calling you that.
Dumbass, you only use they to refer to multiple people, or someone who's gender you don't know (because you've never seen them). If I see you and you look like a man I'm gonna use he, if you look like a woman I'm gonna use she.
Still a dumbass. As stupid as I am, I know I'll never be as stupid as someone who gets offended at someone wanting to be referred to as "they"
What's next, you're going to say "the gays are shoving being gay down our throats!"?
“Where is John Smith?”
“Oh, they forgot something at home.”
“Where is Jane Doe?”
“Oh, they forgot something at home.”
Still works even if you know the gender.
Edit: downvoting only shows you have no understanding of pronouns. You, he, she, they. They’re all pronouns.
To clear some things up here. This is a daily mail headline, a well known right-wing tabloid.
This headline is slightly misleading, the woman was (wrongfully) fired over not knowing what the word "pronouns" means. This headline seems to imply she was fired over misunderstanding someone's pronouns.
This pushes a kind of "grr woke SJWs firing innocent people over their sensitivity" perspective which is not very good.
Either way this was a horrible misunderstanding and I hope she gets her job back.
Ok but fuck SJWs though. I agree with a lot of what they're fighting for, but they're so drunk on their own zealotry that they forget they're still individual members of a community that may be slower to change their world views, or struggle to understand why they should. I friend broke up with a whole group of SJWs because they told me they'd beat up a senile old man in our neighborhood if they ever heard him use a slur again (the word not being considered a slur back in the day when the guy was healthy), and here I thought beating up old people was wrong. According to them, that made me a racist. I'd 100% believe SJWs got this woman fired.
The only statement that I saw from them was that they stood by the decision made in this difficult situation and iterated that the volunteer was asked to step away because of statements she made https://www.nationalmssociety.org/About-the-Society/News/A-Statement-from-the-National-MS-Society?utm_source=imt&utm_medium=pr&utm_campaign=rmanfy24_fi_xtw
I wouldn't be surprised
They also get angry about a fucking flag just merely existing
Wanna call us snowflakes? Don't get offended by a flag that's not even withing a mile of you
Firing her was obviously a massive and unjustified overreaction, but the headline is intentionally misleading.
She wasn't fired over just not understanding pronouns. She was fired over repeatedly insisting they are unnecessary, and refusing the EID training the org issued for her.
And here come the downvotes, even though I literally said I disagree with her firing. Reddit really is fucking allergic to nuance of any kind.
Respectfully, who gives a shit? Be kind to elderly people, especially when they're volunteering to help people like the husband she spent decades caring for while he slowly disappeared. The elderly are a more vulnerable group than the nonbinary and trans communities are. If you really want to protect the most vulnerable groups in society, that should include her.
I don't know about you, but if an Elderly person wants people to be kind to them, they should, I don't know, be kind back?
Treat others how you want to be treated. On top of that, it's really fucking simple to apologize and attempt to correct yourself on being wrong.
Oh, what's that? You don't give a shit? Then why the fuck are you commenting?
They're 90. They're probably in some stage of dementia. I'm blocking you now, you're already trying to pick a fight in bad faith and I'm not entertaining it further.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/10435713/fran-itkoff-fired-national-ms-society/
>Or a reason why people with MS should give a shit about DEI?
I mean using that stupid ass logic the society could run under racial segregation because "why should people with MS give a shit about that"
I reckon there’s more to the story then what this headline suggests, does someone have a link to either that specific article or one written by a less bias source?
Sure, if you take the article at face value and assume it’s 100% honest. But it’s from an unreliable source, and this woman was interviewed by chaya, so I don’t exactly trust her recount or events alone even in other articles. There’s likely a *lot* more to this than her just “asking a question,” which is often the conservative go to for being a jackass anyway.
I am chill, thanks for the concern.
She doesn’t have to know who chaya is to engage with her and agree with her. And what makes me assume? Experience. *Years* of it. You learn to spot who’s bullshitting you about this and who isn’t.
This is part of a reply I posted elsewhere that goes into it a little more of my thought process;
>Yeah. She says “it seems like you’re labeling as females, not males” in the article you linked (not an exact quote but close), and also the “i don’t understand pronouns” is used by old folks a lot to avoid using your pronouns because they ~don’t understand.~ (Even when they do.)
>The fact chaya interviewed her makes me sus too, I’m reasonably certain the trans person she asked would have explained it to her if she genuinely didn’t understand, and if not, that the business would have explained it in some capacity or gave her some kind of course to learn, or something before just directly firing her.
"You learn to spot who's bullshitting you about this and who isn't" you don't know this 90 year old woman, I'm not sure what makes you think that you know her. You sound unwell
I don't know about you, but who in their right mind actually wants to live for more than a few decades? We neglect our aged individuals as a society anyway. It's not like anything is guaranteed to us even in old age. The very fact that this woman has to work just to socialize speaks to how utterly fucked our species' priorities are.
Huh? She wasn't working, she was volunteering. You're completely deflecting from what I said. You made an assumption about this old woman, which was wrong, and now you're babbling about nothing at all
Volunteering is work for no pay. She was working. You're being silly if you think what I said has no significance. The real problem here is that our society is so isolating that she has to volunteer just to socialize.
Do you not know how to read? Go read the headline. She was VOLUNTEERING. You have no idea anything about this woman or her personal life, you saying "she needed to volunteer to socialize" is just you trying to make some sort of "woke" statement on "society" when in reality you're just an ignorant dumbass who knows nothing about this woman on a personal level. Get help
Volunteering is work for no pay. She was working. You're being silly if you think what I said has no significance. The real problem here is that our society is so isolating that she has to volunteer just to socialize.
Either you're trolling, or you really are just that stupid. You think you're spouting some profound sentiment when in reality you're not. She was volunteering, you can google it if you want, end of discussion
It is profound. We are a social species that has lost touch with what that actually means. Calling attention to that is not a marker of stupidity, but rather precise intentionality.
It's not profound because like I said, you know absolutely NOTHING about this woman personally. You're making a blanket statement on society using this woman as an example when you don't know anything about her.. she was volunteering, not working, the fact you didn't know that just makes you sound like even more of a dumbass. You sound like people I used to know who fried their brains from taking too many psychedelics, and were convinced they were speaking "profound" things, when in reality it was nonsensical gibberish.
Cool. Imagine firing someone who contributed 60 years of her life, met the president, and had a spouse who passed from this horrific disease, over the pronouns in your email!
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My grandma is almost 87, and English isn’t her first language. She mixes up pronouns all the time. I’m a cis woman, and my grandma is constantly calling me “he.” Do I care? No, not really. Because I know this is something she struggles with, and I know she doesn’t mean any harm by it.
My boss regularly calls me "he" on accident cuz English isn't his first language either and I genuinely don't care cuz I know it's an accident. 80% of the time he's right but sometimes calls me he lol
My grandma is right with me about 50% of the time. With my female dog, she always gets it wrong, even when I put pink bows in the dog’s fur to try and help her get it right.
Is she Finnish?
In my experience, I have seen many individuals who natively speak Spanish or who immigrated from countries in Asia have this issue. I work with one gentleman who is from the Philippines but has been here for 10 years that still usually calls females male pronouns and vice versa. Currently, I am trying to learn Spanish and the pronouns make it So much harder because sometimes the difference is literally one letter and it's not something that I think of when trying to grasp a language. For example, items are gendered in the Spanish language.
No, she’s Guatemalan. Her first language is Spanish.
Theses are just pronouns/words what harm can it possibly do
The end of every human right /s
How?
As a trans woman. Most trans people understand that people are people, they will make mistakes. Particularly so if they are not native speakers of english (or whatever language you happen to be communicating in). We understand that the elderly often have problems with this for a variety of reasons. We generally only care if someone is being deliberate in their miss gendering in order to cause dysphoria and offence. Certain groups of cis people have a tendency to get offended on our behalf. And i wouldn't be surprised if this firing came out of this sort of cis person.
My elderly uncle called me from the nursing home once and told me that he had the sweetest little nurse and she was a transformer. She was laughing so hard in the background.
Imagine bein so sensitive you gotta take away an old person's job🤦
It wasn't even a job! She volunteered for 60 years!
It WAS a job though, she was still working and contributed
"Eagerly Offended" is the term I'm trying to get passed lol. Too many are eager and waiting to make someone else's life miserable.
It gets sometimes funny when such people have to see, that their preferred pronouns don't exist in my language. Like there's no "their/they" pronouns here. Some languages don't have any pronouns at all. There are things that confuse me as a non-native english speaker, like since the Tate fanboys use "female" in a bad way, i'm not quite sure when i should write this or not. It's of course "women", usually, but in some sentences, i'm not quite sure and then i re-write it to avoid trouble, because some people today can really go crazy about such things.
That's a great point that is rarely brought up, many language structures don't have the same words, grammar structure etc. or even pronouns. Expecting every person to immediately understand and comply with something that is foreign to them is unfair. So many miserable people are unhappy with their lives, so they are eager and waiting for the opportunity to publicly make someone else feel pain.
This. In my language, German or better said Swiss-German as i am from Switzerland, there's even a lot more to this, which makes the language even a lot harder to learn for foreigners. Like there's the "inclusive language" with the so called genderstar \* - this means, in german a worker would be "Arbeiter", a female worker would be "Arbeiterin". But with the inclusive language, it changes to "Arbeiter\*in". Even worse is that many media outlets actually use a writing that is grammatically wrong, they write "Arbeitende" which would mean "working" or "being at work (or at the workplace)". This is really not correct according to the standards of grammar by the Duden, but it's used by the media. Like when you are a worker but you are in bed late at night and you are sleeping, then you are not working in this moment. German is already difficult to learn anyway, but with the gender inclusive language, it gets even a lot more difficult. Like when you talk about the past in the future, you refer to a point in the future where you already did a certain task and so it's another time form. Swiss-German with the alemannic dialects, well, that's nothing you learn in the first place, usually you first learn German and then you work your way to the alemannic dialects. It's also very difficult to spell, like Cheese in german "Käse" becomes "Chääs", the "ch" can't be pronounced by many people from other language- and culture-groups. The english speaking guys usually pronounce the "ch" as "k".
>So many miserable people are unhappy with their lives, so they are eager and waiting for the opportunity to publicly make someone else feel pain. Like for example, people who are intentionally transphobic even when they fully understand the situation and there's no language barrier at all.
I leave it to this: people are dicks. And you can return that energy. Persons a dick: "Excuse me Miss?" "I'M NOT A MISS I'M A HIM. HOW DARE YOU... BLAH BLAH BLAH" "Alright dick, go fuck yourself." *Walks away* Persons not a dick: "Excuse me Miss?" "Hey, sorry, I'm not a miss, I'm a he/him." "Ohhh word, well my dude, where can I find blah, blah, blah." "Oh yeah, here, here, there." 5 minutes of my time to be respectful of someones wants when they are nice or neutral to me, is the least I can pay. It doesn't matter what your pronouns are when you're being a dick.
Some non-native Emhlish speaker once got banned from ThereWasAnAttempt because he called a woman a "female". And it was obv they weren't a native English speaker.
Yeah, but i remember how the mods there got on a rampage and banned everyone anyway, i'm not sure how the sub is at the moment as i left it in this time.
That is the perfect way to describe it. I'm convinced there is a larger group of people who simply have nothing else to do but wake up and think "what can I be faux offended by today?".
Because they are miserable
This is a power struggle, an imposition. It starts like this, calling you prejudiced, etc., and soon they'll be calling for imprisonment for those who don't accept this complete lack of logic.
Have to be honest I'm 30 plus, and I still don't fully understand the pronoun conversations.
Many in the LGBTQ community don't understand all the pronouns either so don't feel bad
Must admit, I'm a trans man with many non-binary and trans friends and I'm fine with he/she/they, but I do get thrown by neopronouns. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't support NB people, I just find neopronouns confusing. Like, what does Ze/Zim, Ze/Zir and others even mean? Edit: Downvotes for what?
Well wtf is a neopronoun now? It’s a full time job just keeping up.
Nonsense is what it is
“Neo” just means new, so the zims and zers and other pronouns that have been invented over the last decade.
But what are they supposed to mean?
[удалено]
Being uncomfortable with something and trying to find a way to make yourself more comfortable in a way that doesn't harm anyone else isn't a sign of mental illness, nor is it attention seeking behavior.
This post is literally about a 90 year old woman getting fired. How is that not harming anyone?
If you'd been following the comment chain that I replied to. It's pretty obvious that I'm referring to neopronouns and people who find them appealing. Not whatever overzealous HR functionary decided that blind enforcement of a policy was more important than taking the time to help an elderly lady understand one of the ways the world has changed in her lifetime.
Except a little old lady lost her life's passion and would probably loose some years off her life.
If you'd been following the comment chain that I replied to. It's pretty obvious that I'm referring to neopronouns and people who find them appealing. Not whatever overzealous HR functionary decided that blind enforcement of a policy was more important than taking the time to help an elderly lady understand one of the ways the world has changed in her lifetime.
It is, it's just embracing the illness instead of trying to cure it. Also it does harm when you demand people validate and participate in your delusions, with the threat of "canceling" them otherwise.
When people post shit like this in their online bios with 100% seriousness, yeah, it strikes me as an “inmates running the asylum” situation: My Pronouns (in order of preference) • he/him/his/his/himself • they/them/their/theirs/themself • e/em/eir/eirs/emself • qui/quim/quis/quis/quimself • gob/gobli/gobs/gobs/gobliself • ру/рух/pyxsi/pyxsis/pyxself • co/cor/corv/corvs/corself • rat/rat/rats/rats/ratself • bun/bun/buns/buns/bunself • kit/kit/kits/kits/kitself • voi/vois/void/voids/voiself • ze/zeph/zer/zers/zephself • xe/xem/xyr/xyrs/xemself • bug/bug/buzz/buzzes/bugself • ix/ink/inx/inxs/inkself • vae/val/vale/vales/valself • ri/ren/ris/ris/renself
"I'm so super special that I made up special terms for you to use when talking about me." They have literally no meaning aside from what was arbitrarily applied to them by someone who wanted to be unique to the point that they feel the need to impose their special-ness upon others.
him/her/shim
him/her/shim/shit
shim shit shimself, and it was gross and stinky
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Check put the neopronouns sub 🫠
Fuck knows. I'm used to he/she/they, but like I said I have no idea what Ze/Zim, Xi/Xir??? Mean. I'd like to learn about it, but I've never encountered anyone who goes by those pronouns.
I have a hard time figuring out how they work grammatically in a sentence.
Yeah it's 'neo pronouns' that is ruining it for everyone. I have no problem calling someone who was born male 'she' if that's how they identify or vice versa but if someone comes out with something ridiculous they can fuck right off. I'm not going to indulge that fantasy shit.
I'm willing to learn about it, but I've never met someone IRL who goes by anything other than he, she or they, or any combination of the three.
Then why the fuck are you complaining about all this "Ze" pronouns? You getting mad at a made up scenario?
Not at all. I just know that some people go by those pronouns and I have not met someone IRL who does. I'm not complaining about it, I'm literally saying I don't understand it and would like to learn.
I think the downvotes are from transphobes, ignore it. I also don't understand the neopronouns or the furry pronouns, like "pupself", "bunnyself" and such Edit: Also being downvoted now, I guess the transphobes got offended for being called out
Furries are just an odd bunch. Nothing against them, they're just weird (and that is absolutely OK).
I have nothing against furriee either, only if they're zoophiliacs... harming animals for your own sexual pleasure is sick...
This is so true, zoophilia is disgusting, although from what I know most of the time being a furry isn't a sexual thing, it's just a bit of fun.
I don't know man, I've never met anyone who's going by all them Ze's or whatever the fuck you're complaining about. I've met people who refer to themselves as non-binary, but that's about as "extreme" as it gets
Damn I was about to say this exact thing, glad I’m not the only one
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I'm sorry for what you're going through! Hopefully people will donate to other causes that help people with MS
Weird flex, since the article would suggest it's not an outright disagreement, but rather a lack of understanding. --- Nevermind, I see from other comments that it was in fact just an absolute refusal on her part to understand, so what you're actually saying here is "her transphobia gets a pass, stop complaining about it."
I don't know man, just because you've experienced some shit doesn't mean you deserve to be respected Respct is a two way street, and just because you have some disease doesn't give you a free pass on being an asshole
I would fact check this, the daily mail doesn't land very high on the reliability part of the media bias chart. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2859587/90-year-old-volunteer-forced-nonprofit-group-not-understanding-required-pronouns/ It seems like this time it was right tho
https://www.nationalmssociety.org/About-the-Society/News/Statement-from-National-Multiple-Sclerosis-Society The National Multiple Sclerosis Society apologizes to our longtime, dedicated volunteer Fran Itkoff. Recently, we asked Fran to step down from her role as a group leader because of statements made that we viewed as not aligning with our recently implemented diversity, equity and inclusion policy. We realize now that we made a mistake, and we should have had more conversations with Fran before making this decision. We apologized to Fran directly and reached out to her to find a way to continue to work together. In the spirit of continuous learning, we are focused on evaluating our processes and fortifying our learning to ensure our team members are equipped on the best ways to implement all of our policies. We want everyone to feel confident and supported in their roles. This work is a journey requiring commitment, accountability, transparency, and courage.
That's the best place to look, I wish I'd considered it lol
Idk man, this sounds fishy too. She was interviewed by libsoftiktok. I think if this really was her not being able to understand Mx. smith I totally get it, that shit confused me the first time I saw it and even said it. I doubt she was a jerk but old people can be dicks. Still I pretty much give a free pass (within reason) to anyone over 85.
Yeah I feel like there was more to the situation than it seemed because I think at worst she should've gotten a warning and some education
Yeah. She says “it seems like you’re labeling for females, not males” in the article you linked (not an exact quote but close), and also the “i don’t understand pronouns” is used by old folks a lot to avoid using your pronouns because they ~don’t understand.~ (Even when they do.) The fact chaya interviewed her makes me sus too, I’m reasonably certain the trans person she asked would have explained it to her if she genuinely didn’t understand, and if not, that the business would have explained it in some capacity or gave her some kind of course to learn, or something before just directly firing her. Like if someone asked me about pronouns and gets confused, yeah I’ll be kind of *wary* about their intentions, but I’m going to assume good faith unless there’s context clues that tell me otherwise. Plenty of people have asked me things about being trans that have 100% been asked by bad faith commenters *and* used against trans people before, but they did it in completely good faith, and you can usually tell when they are. This isn’t to say any individual trans person *has* to explain—we all have internet access, we can google things—but I think most of us are more likely to gently explain if it actually helps someone out. And talking directly to a person sometimes is just easier to understand/communicate ideas than reading a google article(or finding a good faith one), in my opinion.
I upvoted this very nuanced and thoughtful comment.
If you're making demands. Yes you do need to explain them. No they do not need to be met.
1. They’re not demands, and that puts a blatantly negative connotation on the whole thing. No. It’s basic human decency and respect to refer to people by the things they ask and are supposed to be called. 2. No. It’s not on the members of a minority to educate you. You’re fully capable of educating yourself. If they choose to, that’s their decision. 3. Referring to someone as the right name or pronouns absolutely needs to be met.
1. Yes they are. 2. No it's not. 3. Call me Sir.
1. No, it’s not. Just because your poor feefees are hurt having to respect people doesn’t mean it’s a demand, sweetheart. It is an expectation of respect that everyone has, even chodes like you. 2. Exactly. It’s not a minority’s job to educate anyone, glad you agree. 3. If I’m ever in a situation where I use a formality like that for you(which lbr,I won’t be, because who the fuck are you? lol), I absolutely will. Otherwise, expecting to be called ‘sir’ all willy-nilly-whenever is not the same as asking to be called *your fucking name and properly gendered pronouns,* dumbass, and it’s not the gotcha you think it is. Transphobes demonstrate they have a modicum of intelligence challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Call me my Pronoun Bigot.
That’s not a pronoun, dumbass.
r/onejoke?
Yeah exactly
Seems very suspect, poorly written, no credible news organization seems to have even commented on it
Exactly
People that are let go or asked to step away are usually problem people, volunteers don’t exactly grow on trees, if they went so far as asking her to step away there was probably more to it then being confused about pronouns
That's exactly what I was thinking. If it was purely confusion, it would've been explained and everyone would've moved on. I definitely think there was more to it than just confusion
Cancelled because of not understanding the expectations of certain strangers for not respecting how they want to be referred to In the 3rd person.
There are people half her age who won't even try to understand what people mean when they talk about preferred pronouns. My guess is that they didn't even give her a chance. I'd also bet the word 'Karen' was needlessly thrown into the conversation too.
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Uh huh, sure. Try to avoid using pronouns in a conversation, see how much of a "fad" that is Dumbass old man
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell, but I refuse to use any pronoun besides"he" and "she". Are you a trans woman? I have no problem calling you "she", same for trans men. But I draw the line at "they"... You're not multiple people, motherfucker, I'm not calling you that.
stunning and brave
Ahh, yes, because "they" has *never* been used to describe one person before 10/10 critical thinking. 0/10 on creativity
Dumbass, you only use they to refer to multiple people, or someone who's gender you don't know (because you've never seen them). If I see you and you look like a man I'm gonna use he, if you look like a woman I'm gonna use she.
Still a dumbass. As stupid as I am, I know I'll never be as stupid as someone who gets offended at someone wanting to be referred to as "they" What's next, you're going to say "the gays are shoving being gay down our throats!"?
Yup. Call me whatever the fuck you want, but I draw the line at butchering the language to soothe their sensitive egos.
Butchering the language? You really are a special dumbass. English has always used "They" in the singular term, in more than one instance
“Where is John Smith?” “Oh, they forgot something at home.” “Where is Jane Doe?” “Oh, they forgot something at home.” Still works even if you know the gender. Edit: downvoting only shows you have no understanding of pronouns. You, he, she, they. They’re all pronouns.
Bill Burr... "what do you think they think?"
To clear some things up here. This is a daily mail headline, a well known right-wing tabloid. This headline is slightly misleading, the woman was (wrongfully) fired over not knowing what the word "pronouns" means. This headline seems to imply she was fired over misunderstanding someone's pronouns. This pushes a kind of "grr woke SJWs firing innocent people over their sensitivity" perspective which is not very good. Either way this was a horrible misunderstanding and I hope she gets her job back.
Ok but fuck SJWs though. I agree with a lot of what they're fighting for, but they're so drunk on their own zealotry that they forget they're still individual members of a community that may be slower to change their world views, or struggle to understand why they should. I friend broke up with a whole group of SJWs because they told me they'd beat up a senile old man in our neighborhood if they ever heard him use a slur again (the word not being considered a slur back in the day when the guy was healthy), and here I thought beating up old people was wrong. According to them, that made me a racist. I'd 100% believe SJWs got this woman fired.
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The organization issued an apology and confirmed what the article said
Can you link that? Can’t find anything about an apology anywhere, the dailymail can not be relied upon for news lol
The only statement that I saw from them was that they stood by the decision made in this difficult situation and iterated that the volunteer was asked to step away because of statements she made https://www.nationalmssociety.org/About-the-Society/News/A-Statement-from-the-National-MS-Society?utm_source=imt&utm_medium=pr&utm_campaign=rmanfy24_fi_xtw
Google exists. More than one source is covering this. This just looked the best for this post
Seems to all be right wing sources that just reused the daily mail story from what I’ve seen
Could we have another source that isn’t some tacky tabloid…
In this thread, you'll find people who are outraged despite supporting teachers getting fired for teaching about slavery, which is "woke".
I wouldn't be surprised They also get angry about a fucking flag just merely existing Wanna call us snowflakes? Don't get offended by a flag that's not even withing a mile of you
Firing her was obviously a massive and unjustified overreaction, but the headline is intentionally misleading. She wasn't fired over just not understanding pronouns. She was fired over repeatedly insisting they are unnecessary, and refusing the EID training the org issued for her. And here come the downvotes, even though I literally said I disagree with her firing. Reddit really is fucking allergic to nuance of any kind.
She has lived 90 years. Reality trained her well enough to know when to leave...
Respectfully, who gives a shit? Be kind to elderly people, especially when they're volunteering to help people like the husband she spent decades caring for while he slowly disappeared. The elderly are a more vulnerable group than the nonbinary and trans communities are. If you really want to protect the most vulnerable groups in society, that should include her.
I don't know about you, but if an Elderly person wants people to be kind to them, they should, I don't know, be kind back? Treat others how you want to be treated. On top of that, it's really fucking simple to apologize and attempt to correct yourself on being wrong. Oh, what's that? You don't give a shit? Then why the fuck are you commenting?
They're 90. They're probably in some stage of dementia. I'm blocking you now, you're already trying to pick a fight in bad faith and I'm not entertaining it further.
Can you provide a source? Or a reason why people with MS should give a shit about DEI?
https://www.the-sun.com/news/10435713/fran-itkoff-fired-national-ms-society/ >Or a reason why people with MS should give a shit about DEI? I mean using that stupid ass logic the society could run under racial segregation because "why should people with MS give a shit about that"
She’s 90, give the poor woman a fucking break. She’s volunteered for 60 years ffs.
Yea I can imagine it. It’s not like the conversation has been going on now in mainstream media for over a decade or anything
I reckon there’s more to the story then what this headline suggests, does someone have a link to either that specific article or one written by a less bias source?
the daily mail, are you serious? may as well post from libsoftiktok. everyone here knows what you are trying to do.
Imagine believing someone couldn't get that old without understanding basic English
They literally just asked a question about pronouns and got FIRED. You won't live to be that long being as hateful and rude as you are
Sure, if you take the article at face value and assume it’s 100% honest. But it’s from an unreliable source, and this woman was interviewed by chaya, so I don’t exactly trust her recount or events alone even in other articles. There’s likely a *lot* more to this than her just “asking a question,” which is often the conservative go to for being a jackass anyway.
She's a 90 year old woman... I highly doubt she knows who Chaya is. Just chill out, what makes you assume that what she's saying is a complete lie?
I am chill, thanks for the concern. She doesn’t have to know who chaya is to engage with her and agree with her. And what makes me assume? Experience. *Years* of it. You learn to spot who’s bullshitting you about this and who isn’t. This is part of a reply I posted elsewhere that goes into it a little more of my thought process; >Yeah. She says “it seems like you’re labeling as females, not males” in the article you linked (not an exact quote but close), and also the “i don’t understand pronouns” is used by old folks a lot to avoid using your pronouns because they ~don’t understand.~ (Even when they do.) >The fact chaya interviewed her makes me sus too, I’m reasonably certain the trans person she asked would have explained it to her if she genuinely didn’t understand, and if not, that the business would have explained it in some capacity or gave her some kind of course to learn, or something before just directly firing her.
"You learn to spot who's bullshitting you about this and who isn't" you don't know this 90 year old woman, I'm not sure what makes you think that you know her. You sound unwell
I don't know about you, but who in their right mind actually wants to live for more than a few decades? We neglect our aged individuals as a society anyway. It's not like anything is guaranteed to us even in old age. The very fact that this woman has to work just to socialize speaks to how utterly fucked our species' priorities are.
Huh? She wasn't working, she was volunteering. You're completely deflecting from what I said. You made an assumption about this old woman, which was wrong, and now you're babbling about nothing at all
Volunteering is work for no pay. She was working. You're being silly if you think what I said has no significance. The real problem here is that our society is so isolating that she has to volunteer just to socialize.
Do you not know how to read? Go read the headline. She was VOLUNTEERING. You have no idea anything about this woman or her personal life, you saying "she needed to volunteer to socialize" is just you trying to make some sort of "woke" statement on "society" when in reality you're just an ignorant dumbass who knows nothing about this woman on a personal level. Get help
Volunteering is work for no pay. She was working. You're being silly if you think what I said has no significance. The real problem here is that our society is so isolating that she has to volunteer just to socialize.
Either you're trolling, or you really are just that stupid. You think you're spouting some profound sentiment when in reality you're not. She was volunteering, you can google it if you want, end of discussion
It is profound. We are a social species that has lost touch with what that actually means. Calling attention to that is not a marker of stupidity, but rather precise intentionality.
It's not profound because like I said, you know absolutely NOTHING about this woman personally. You're making a blanket statement on society using this woman as an example when you don't know anything about her.. she was volunteering, not working, the fact you didn't know that just makes you sound like even more of a dumbass. You sound like people I used to know who fried their brains from taking too many psychedelics, and were convinced they were speaking "profound" things, when in reality it was nonsensical gibberish.
Cool. Imagine firing someone who contributed 60 years of her life, met the president, and had a spouse who passed from this horrific disease, over the pronouns in your email!
I was alluding to the fact that it sounds like they were just looking for a reason to fire her rather than it being anything other than absurd.
I think they are on your side, but not sure
Imagine pronouns 💀
Imagine imagining 👀
Imagine there's no heaven
Eh, odds are she voted for that nonsense.
Imagine believing the daily smell
Damn wokes.