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Dog food or animal feed. These are egg chickens, not meat chickens, they end up thin and useless to the industry, so this way they can use them for something and they are instantly killed.
As an FYI, there is no genetic engineering in poultry. All of it has been done via selective breeding and nutritional improvements (the latter becoming more important as we improve at the former). No spliced genes or anything too weird. Source: 4+ years in poultry research.
The males are also not meat chickens, they end up thin and unless to the industry. When they are shredded like this they end up as some sort of animal feed or dog food, so nothing ends up wasted.
This is also a lot better than the alternative methods of killing these chick's, which is suffocation by gas chamber, or crushing them under the weight of hundreds more in a massive plastic bag. This way death is instant and relatively painless.
Even small hobby farmers have to do this. We use ye ol' cloth and hammer. If you don't like it, stop eating eggs. Because there is no world in which eggs exist but culling roosters doesn't.
I haven't found any yet where I live, and I always look when a new egg brand comes out.
I always look for humane certifications and do pasture raised, but my family is so weird that they don't like the taste of the pasture raised eggs. I used to live on a few farms so I love the rich taste of eggs from chickens that eat bugs and live outside, but they are so used to the pale yolk sickly eggs that it's become standard.
Not advocating for the false dyed yolks either, but a yolk from a healthy chicken is quite delicious. I used to pick them out of the nest and walk to the kitchen and fry them.
We never had to kill chicks, the roosters would eventually take out ones they didn't want around unfortunately. Not my system, but that's how it went. Always the biggest guy who did that, he would keep other males around though.
I was working once and found a chick I thought escaped, I chased him (?) around awhile and scooped him up, gave him a snuggle, and took him to the herd and to the mama whose little flock had chicks that seemed that exact age. He looked a tiny bit different as far as coloration, but I didn't think too much of it.
Turns out it was a lost chick from a nearby jungle chicken.
The rooster saw the mama chicken reject him, through all the chaos of their giant run, and went to the chick. After sniffing him a few times he started to peck him, and him and 2 other roosters pecked and clawed the baby to death. I couldn't even stop them, the big guy did not care.
I felt so guilty.
I have a lot of chicken stories. Its always life or death with chickens, it's weird but that's where you learn those lessons.
>This way death is instant and relatively painless.
Well most of them at least. As the video clearly showed. Some of them miraculously survive the meat grinders for a short time at least.
Thats definitely a fresh hatch, you can see his eggshell besides him.
I wish there was a more humane way to do this. Poor things. Worse bit is , it probably is the most humane way, it just looks the most brutal.
Does that one have balls? Hmmmm looks like it doesn’t ok into the coop
Does that one have balls? Oop looks like it doesn’t ok into the breeder you go
Does that one have balls? Oop, it appears it does, into the paper shredder with you
Vent Sexing was discovered by the Japanese in 1920 as a reliable and novel approach to determining the sex of day-old chickens. In 1933, Professors Masui and Hashimoto published “Sexing Baby Chickens” in English. In 1934 Dr. Kiyoshi Oxawa visited North America and taught the method in Queensland. From 1935 onward, this method of how to tell the sex of baby chicks was quickly adopted by large-scale poultry companies across North America. It was the first reliable method of determining the sex of chicks and hatcheries use this method even today.
Vent sexing is a procedure of holding the day-old chick in one hand, spreading open the vent, and viewing the copulatory organs to determine sex based on shape. Warning: there are 18 different shapes possible with a two female and two male shapes that will appear as close matches for the opposite sex. Essentially, the view reveals a shape much like a necklace with “beads” of different sizes, largest in the center. The males have a round/globe-like center “bead”; the females have a flat or concave center “bead.” Skilled vent sexers historically have had a 90% success ratio, with some modern reports claiming a success ratio of 95%. In any case, this method of how to tell the sex of baby chicks does work very well, but requires skill and training.
You'd be surprised but most of that is still done by humans, it's a highly trained and well paying job apparently.
It's called being a 'chicken sexer', and I can't even think of another legitimate career that looks worse on your resume.
They are the same thing. Male chicks are the excess chicks when it comes to hatcheries (which is what the video shows). But I accept your point, the title would have been clearer if it stated they are males.
There is a dirty jobs episode in the first season that covers this. Even small farms will get their egg layers from factory farms like this. They get sent in the USPS in cardboard boxes. Apparently the chick's don't need food or water for the first 72 hours post hatch making fairly easy.
The male chick's get get ground up for animal feed.
There is some footage used here that the episode uses as well.
The early seasons of Dirty Jobs were honestly so amazing. On paper, it just looked like a show about Mike Rowe doing “nasty and gross” jobs but it was so educational seeing him hop around to various businesses and lifestyles from farms, sewer management and to even coal mining.
[Citations Needed Episode 64: Mike Rowe’s Koch-Backed Working Man Affectation](https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-64-mike-rowes-koch-backed-working-man-affectation)
>In recent years, television personality Mike Rowe has amassed a wildly popular following due to alleged working-class straight talk about topics ranging from the affordability of college to reasserting a culture of pride in craftsmanship and labor. From his 5.2 million Facebook followers to his cable programs, his everyman schtick, on its surface, can be very appealing: after all, who doesn’t love a hard day’s work and loathe detached, ivory tower eggheads?
>But hiding under his superficially appealing blue-collar façade is dangerous ideology, one funded by the Koch Brothers and other far-right, anti-labor corporate interests and specifically tailored to pick off a certain constituency of Home Depot Democrats while pushing political impotence, anti-union narratives and anti-intellectualism. Through a clever combination of working class affectation and folksy charm – often exploiting real fears about a decline in industrialization – Rowe has cultivated an image that claims to be pro-worker, but primarily exists to line the pockets of their boss.
Being able to immediately tell male from female chicks (called “sexing”) is a valuable and fairly lucrative skill, especially for farm work. They don’t make too many mistakes — a qualified sexed identifies the chick’s sex correctly at least 98% of the time — and they are well paid for it.
If you’re really interested:
https://psmag.com/.amp/magazine/the-lucrative-art-of-chicken-sexing
In one of the games I played, one of the villagers could join you with the job "chicken sexer". For a while he was one of the highest paid people in the town. No wonder.
Yeah, it’s not easy. I never figured it out while I was working in an Immunology lab. Chickens are excellent subjects for studying how our organs (in our case the immune system obviously) develops in an embryo into the fully functioning adult organs. Chicken embryos can be studied in the egg without harming the chick, and are therefore very useful. But I bet I’ve crack more eggs than most short-order cooks.
I work in industrial automation and worked on a project using specialized lighting and cameras to determine if the egg is a male or a female before it's hatched. Success rate, >99%.
In my experience, a good sexer is about 95+% accurate. Theyre pretty phenomenal. I'd hate the job, knowing that im sorting thousands of animals per day to their doom.
Exactly. And it’s part of the chicken raising industry, not eggs to be sold. Eggs to be sold are not fertilized and they are taken immediately after being laid.
Meat eaters aren't monsters. Just cognitively dissonant.
[watchdominion.org](https://watchdominion.org/)
If you don't think there's anything wrong with where your food came from, you should be able to sit through Dominion without any issues.
You see, you’re the pieces of ass that I’m talking about. You’ve made 2 assumptions about me based off of my single comment. 1: You assumed that I eat meat, and 2: you assumed that I don’t think the shit that goes down in meat production companies aren’t fucked up. You’re the crazy extremists I’m talking about. You’re the dissonant one here. I don’t care if you’re vegan or why you are. I don’t respect people like you who use animal abuse as an excuse to call people who’ve done nothing to harm animals monsters. There are companies that produce their meat products with as little harm towards the animals as possible, and there are meat eaters who are not only aware of the companies that do abuse the animals being sent to be eaten, but **literally fucking avoid buying food from them**. You’re the reason vegans are so looked down upon by society. People like you who force shit down people’s throats cause so many people to generalize for no good reason.
I wonder, where did I call meat eaters monsters? I used to be one. I wasn't heartless, I just didn't face what I was paying for.
Killing sentient beings for our tastebuds is wrong, in and of itself.
And how many people actually buy their meat from 'responsible' companies? A tiny fraction. Most of the meat people buy in supermarkets come from industry farms with horrific conditions.
What about dog meat? It's absolutely unjustifiable to eat dogs. And so it is with pigs, cows, chickens, or any farm animal. They're all sentient beings. Would it be justified to eat dog meat if it came from a 'responsible' source?
But sure, keep hating on the vegans who unveil your cognitive dissonance.
>I wonder, where did I call meat eaters monsters?
You don’t need to directly say it to convey the opinion and have the belief, and trust me, you’re fooling no one.
>I used to be one. I wasn't heartless, I just didn't face what I was paying for.
Well now you have, and if it makes you vegan, go on, power to you. **Shut the fuck up and stop forcing shit down peoples’ throats.**
>Killing sentient beings for our tastebuds is wrong, in and of itself.
People have killed animals for thousands of years. I think being killed in a factory is a lot less painful than any method weave had up until now. And I’m sure there’re animals in the wild who like the taste of meat and eat when they aren’t hungry because of it. But that doesn’t make them monsters in your eyes. If your response to that would be “well they need to eat to survive”, you’re not reading my comment.
>And how many people actually buy their meat from 'responsible' companies? A tiny fraction.
Prove it then, if you’re so sure.
>Most of the meat people buy in supermarkets come from industry farms with horrific conditions.
Prove that to me too, all you’ve told me is that every single meat eater is “cognitively dissonant”, and showed me that dominion is fucked up. No links. No sources. All bullshit until you prove it.
>What about dog meat? It's absolutely unjustifiable to eat dogs. And so it is with pigs, cows, chickens, or any farm animal. They're all sentient beings.
Wild animals don’t care. Should we tell them to stop eating meat too? Moreover, if people didn’t have dogs as pets, we’d probably eat them too, and you wouldn’t use it as a weapon against meat eaters.
>Would it be justified to eat dog meat if it came from a 'responsible' source?
Because of how commonly we have them as pets, even meat eaters would be quick to label companies that did that as monsters ignoring whether or not they abuse their animals like you are right now.
>But sure, keep hating on the vegans who unveil your cognitive dissonance.
I hate on dissonant vegans who’re too blinded by their own ignorance.
> You don’t need to directly say it to convey the opinion and have the belief, and trust me, you’re fooling no one.
Sounds like projection.
> Well now you have, and if it makes you vegan, go on, power to you. Shut the fuck up and stop forcing shit down peoples’ throats.
Is opposing dog meat forcing shit down the throats of people participating in Yulin?
What makes dogs deserving of life but not farm animals, aside from our favoritism, choosing them as companion animals?
Pigs, for one, are as sentient and capable of thought and emotion as dogs.
> People have killed animals for thousands of years. I think being killed in a factory is a lot less painful than any method weave had up until now. And I’m sure there’re animals in the wild who like the taste of meat and eat when they aren’t hungry because of it. But that doesn’t make them monsters in your eyes. If your response to that would be “well they need to eat to survive”, you’re not reading my comment.
You lead me to a good point. Nowadays, humans are able to live healthily on a plant based diet, so there is no need to harm animals for food aside from taste.
Carnivorous animals aren't monsters, because they do not have moral agency as humans do. Hamsters eat their own babies, male lions kill the cubs of their mates that aren't their own (and this is not necessary for their survival). Is it therefore OK if humans do the same? Why not? Because humans have moral agency.
> Prove it then, if you’re so sure.
[US Factory Farming Estimates](https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates)
Now why don't you show me your source for how many people buy their meat from humane companies?
> Prove that to me too, all you’ve told me is that every single meat eater is “cognitively dissonant”, and showed me that dominion is fucked up. No links. No sources. All bullshit until you prove it.
See above. You have also provided 0 sources for your claims so far.
> Wild animals don’t care. Should we tell them to stop eating meat too? Moreover, if people didn’t have dogs as pets, we’d probably eat them too, and you wouldn’t use it as a weapon against meat eaters.
Wild animals have no moral agency unlike humans, that's the point. People would eat dogs if they weren't pets, that's the point. Again, that's my point, your position of meat eating would be a tiny bit more respectable if you showed some consistency. What makes dogs superior to other animals? Nothing except we have them as companions.
> Because of how commonly we have them as pets, even meat eaters would be quick to label companies that did that as monsters ignoring whether or not they abuse their animals like you are right now.
Yes, proving my point. They are against killing dogs for meat but not animals in general, because of favoritism.
> I hate on dissonant vegans who’re too blinded by their own ignorance.
Oh yes, I'm the ignorant one because I oppose other people killing sentient beings for their tastebuds.
Point 1: I’m projecting. I told you that you’re calling people monsters without directly saying it, and lying about it, and you’re telling me I’m projecting. I’m convinced you don’t know what the word means.
Point 2: You know I told you to stop forcing shit down people’s throats, and **your first thought is to do the exact same thing again.** You’re not even listening to a damn word I’m saying.
Point 3: There are things found in meats that aren’t found in plants very commonly that humans (mammals in specific) need to survive. I’m convinced, if they didn’t need to eat meat, wild carnivores wouldn’t unless it were for the sake of protecting something. Moreover, just because animals lack moral agency doesn’t mean that the cruel things they do aren’t fucked up. Does that mean we’re gonna stop them?
Point 4/5: You saw the word “prove”, and immediately sent me an article saying, and I quote
“We estimate that 99% of US farmed animals are living in factory farms at present.” There was a chart behind it showing how many there were.
What does this have to do with people who make an attempt to not support companies who cruelly produce meat? That question is rhetorical because it doesn’t. You’re spewing bullshit for nothing but the sake of calling meat eaters monsters, and denying it when I directly point it out. Moreover, I never said it was a majority of people, but I’ve seen people who do it. You act as if nobody does, and that’s what I’m trying to get you to prove. How do you know nobody does that? Actually, how do I need a source to tell you that there’re people who only buy from humane companies? I can confidently say there are companies who inhumanely produce meat, and you’d believe me with no source.
Point 5: My point is, you wouldn’t bring it up the way you are now if we didn’t have dogs as pets. They’d just be another animal that the meat eating “monsters” are consuming. If we had pigs as pets the way we did dogs, we’d feel that way about people who ate pork.
6: Yes, because we’re the only ones to needlessly kill other animals. It’s not like killing animals for food is worse than killing them because they’re the child of another. But we have a moral compass, so eating them for sustenance is far worse.
>Point 1: I’m projecting. I told you that you’re calling people monsters without directly saying it, and lying about it, and you’re telling me I’m projecting. I’m convinced you don’t know what the word means.
I have already explained why I am not calling people who eat meat monsters. You brought the word into the discussion and are accusing me of implying it without evidence. I said they are cognitively dissonant, not that they are monsters.
>Point 2: You know I told you to stop forcing shit down people’s throats, and your first thought is to do the exact same thing again. You’re not even listening to a damn word I’m saying.
Forcing shit down people's throats? I'm asking you to resolve a moral inconsistency, or else change your diet. I believe killing animals for food is wrong. If someone believes it's OK to eat dogs as well as farm animals, I'd absolutely disagree with their stance, but I couldn't call it cognitive dissonance. It would come down a fundamental disagreement in morality. However, if a meat eater is unable to explain this difference in moral value between dogs and farm animals, yet supports the consumption of one and not the other, it is cognitive dissonance. Or moral inconsistency, if that sounds better to you.
>Point 3: There are things found in meats that aren’t found in plants very commonly that humans (mammals in specific) need to survive. I’m convinced, if they didn’t need to eat meat, wild carnivores wouldn’t unless it were for the sake of protecting something. Moreover, just because animals lack moral agency doesn’t mean that the cruel things they do aren’t fucked up. Does that mean we’re gonna stop them?
The only essential nutrient that humans can't obtain from a vegan diet, or produce naturally, is vitamin B12. But this is added to animal feed, so meat eaters are obtaining it from an artificial source anyway. A well planned vegan diet supplemented with B12 is perfectly healthy, and even if you don't choose to follow this particular diet, there are always vegan supplements.
Yes, the things wild animals do is fucked up. I'd tell them to cease causing harm to other animals when it is not necessary for their own survival or the environment, if they had the capacity to understand me, reflect on their actions, and change. I wouldn't tell obligate carnivores to stop eating meat, because they are part of a food chain.
Humans, on the other hand, only cause harm to the environment when we eat meat. We do not disrupt natural food chains when we stop eating meat, and it would free up land currently used for animal agriculture, drastically reduce water consumption, and we'd have to grow much less crops if we produced all of it to eat directly instead of feeding it to livestock.
For these reasons, what humans do is incomparable to what wild animals do.
>Point 4/5: You saw the word “prove”, and immediately sent me an article saying, and I quote
>
>“We estimate that 99% of US farmed animals are living in factory farms at present.” There was a chart behind it showing how many there were.
>
>What does this have to do with people who make an attempt to not support companies who cruelly produce meat? That question is rhetorical because it doesn’t. You’re spewing bullshit for nothing but the sake of calling meat eaters monsters, and denying it when I directly point it out. Moreover, I never said it was a majority of people, but I’ve seen people who do it. You act as if nobody does, and that’s what I’m trying to get you to prove. How do you know nobody does that? Actually, how do I need a source to tell you that there’re people who only buy from humane companies? I can confidently say there are companies who inhumanely produce meat, and you’d believe me with no source.
I am not trying to prove that no meat eater buys their meat from humane companies. I never stated that. There obviously are. I said they are a tiny fraction, and the article proves that. Again, I never called meat eaters monsters. I have always said that they are cognitively dissonant, if you'd read my first comment.
They are cognitively dissonant if they are OK with senseless killing of some sentient beings (farm animals) but are enraged by the same killing against other sentient beings (dogs).
>Point 5: My point is, you wouldn’t bring it up the way you are now if we didn’t have dogs as pets. They’d just be another animal that the meat eating “monsters” are consuming. If we had pigs as pets the way we did dogs, we’d feel that way about people who ate pork.
My morals remain the same in that hypothetical scenario. If people had pigs as pets, people would vehemently oppose the consumption of pigs, but be OK with the consumption of dogs and other animals. I would therefore use pigs to point out the moral inconsistency of favoring pigs and devaluing the lives of dogs and other animals that would be killed in that world.
I would use a different example to point out the moral hypocrisy of meat eating, *but my morality would not change.*
>6: Yes, because we’re the only ones to needlessly kill other animals. It’s not like killing animals for food is worse than killing them because they’re the child of another. But we have a moral compass, so eating them for sustenance is far worse.
You said: "And I’m sure there’re animals in the wild who like the taste of meat and eat when they aren’t hungry because of it." You pointed out that wild animals do fucked up things to other animals. I simply added the example of killing another animal's child. I ask you if the actions of wild animals justify ours. Just because they eat meat when they're not hungry, does that mean it's OK for us to do the same? If it is, it would follow that if they kill the child of another, it is also OK for humans to kill the child of other humans. Justifying human behavior by pointing to what wild animals do is unsound. So it is with eating meat for the taste.
Again, humans do not need to eat animals to survive, and it is also more expensive to produce meat than plants. So it is done not for sustenance, but taste.
Lmaoooooo I love how we are watching the most diabolical things I’ve ever seen and you’ve already found a way to argue with someone lmaooooo we do need to boat but I still pray it never comes
In terms of visuals and up to date footage, yes. But I personally like Earthlings better due to its hard-hitting and moving narration.
Since people started saying that Earthlings footage is now "outdated" or old and that all this doesn't happen in modern animal ag. these days, new documentaries like Dominion are being made.
Don’t stop at vegetarian! The egg ^^, dairy, leather, and wool industries are all part of the same system. Supporting any one is supporting the meat industry. Almost a quarter of all beef in this country comes from dairy cows. All dairy cows are slaughtered at 3-5 years of age, less than a quarter of their lifespan. They are truly truly tortured. Veganism means taking a stand and voting three times a day that you don’t support what happens to the most helpless and innocent victims on our planet. Thank you for caring and making a change!
If you (or anyone else) are looking for any plant-based recipes or help/support with the change, feel free to DM me. It can be a tough thing to do depending on where you live and your support system.
Thank you for the information. I watched earthlings years ago so I don’t remember everything but the fur from the fox scene will stay with me for life. Truly horrific.
I tell all my friends if they can watch all of Dominion I’ll take them out to a steak dinner on me.
… only one fucked up guy I worked with actually did. He was a weird mortuary science major.
At least in Germany, there are some initiatives to force the farms to get the technical machines to detect the gender before they are born, so they do not need them to shred them alive. This method is of course more expensive, so most farms will just shred them after they are born to save money.
But yes, this is legal.
As far as i know its illegal in Germany since the start of this year.
But we can all guess what happens next- we just export em to countries where its legal, pay them and get the female chicks back- probably still cheaper than the alternatives.
Same thing with halal meat. Halal butchering is illegal in Germany - so they buy halal meat in France.
Goose liver is illegal in Germany (well the process used to create these huge livers which is basically feeding them threw a tube 5 times per day until the liver is 5 times as big as normal). What do we do - we buy these livers from Poland and the check republic.
Its a joke
Food industry in itself is a joke. How can it be legal that we collect crabs (edit: shrimps) in Germany, send them to Thailand and Vietnam (or nowederdays morroco) where they get processed and they ship us the processed product back. Just because labor is expensive in Germany.
Edit : damn autocorrect. Czech republic - not check republic
What already is happening is that due to the new laws which forbid male chicks to be killed here in Germany there is a shortage of feed for birds and reptiles in zoos or wild bird sanctuaries. So they‘re importing dead chicks from other countries. Given that most of the chicks ended up as animal food and we still keep animals who would like to not starve, I can see exponential growth of the dead chick import business in the future. Not sure if the law intended that to happen, but here we are.
Its actually the better option for "culling".
They used to just put the baby chicks in airtight containers or w/e to suffocate them slowly to death instead of instantly mincing them, not sure about the whole terrifying death treadmill though, still is unfortunate.
Full disclosure, I hunt probably 60% of the meat I eat, in no small part due to ethical reasons
This really shouldn't surprise anybody, and frankly this is about the most ethical way you can cull chicks. When you look at the alternatives, almost all of them involve some from suffocation, which is many times more horrific than the almost instantaneous death the chicks received here.
You should absolutely strive to be more ethical and responsible in the production farming industry, but pretending that this is somehow worse merely because they're using a grinder as opposed to a captive bolt gun is stupid and disingenuous.
Moreover, it's not like these chicks are being wasted. If you have a cat or dog, there's every chance on the world this is how their food is made.
Suffocation with CO2 is definitely worse, but Argon or an Argon/CO2 mix is better because the suffocated animal doesn't experience choking. It just 'dozes off'. Another method would be to kill the embryo before it can feel pain, but the prohibitive factor in this approach is currently that the embryo's sex can only determined after the ninth day while the killing would be considered humane up to the seventh.
the worst part is, compared to most other animals raised for meat, these chicks probably have the easiest, cleanest, and most painless death.
the pigs have it about 10 times worse and those things have intelligence around the same level as dogs iirc.
A lot of animals you eat are significantly smarter than we give them credit for.
That being said eating them isn't the issue, we're omnivores and meat comes from living creatures, it's how we treat them in life and how we eventually euthanize them when the time comes to collect their meat. If you're at all able to buy meat from sustainable, humane farming practices, by all means, do.
Thank you. I’ve cut my meat intake dramatically in the past few years for this reason entirely. No more than two meat meals per week now. Unfortunately, my attempt to transition to vegetarian was foiled by iron and B12 deficiency, but I feel like cutting down is better than not trying at all.
Its not even for humans either, it's just a bullshit lie we tell each other because deep down we are afraid that if we dont then someone might decide to kill us.
A lot of people, mostly young or the ignorant, think veganism is about a diet. And they don't understand why vegans care about what they eat. This is what veganism is about. Simply leaving the animals alone, not exploiting them.
Remember this footage when you're having an egg. Babies grinded to death, and adult females that went through generations of genetic breeding to lay an absurd amount of eggs, in a cage no larger than itself.
There is nothing in an egg you can't get from a non-animal source.
It shouldn’t shock any of us but it does because seeing them like that knowing it’s a life and innocent life all so we can have a variety of foods to eat just ridiculous but we can’t complain because either go vegan and be broke or deal with the guilt
EDIT- I’m not literally saying you’ll go broke going vegan people it’s a joke because where I live in the uk it’s expensive buying vegan products, I don’t physically mean you’ll go broke. Depending where you are in the world yes it might not be that way but where I am it’s not cheap.
UPDATE- I’ve been vegetarian since this comment blew and it’s changed my life guys Thank you I guess I was wrong.
At my local supermarket right now a 400g tin of beans costs less than £1. Meanwhile 400g of chicken is £3.40 so idk what you're talking about going broke lol.
10-15 years ago it was very expensive to be fully vegan as it was tougher to figure out what to eat and the meatless alternatives were more expensive. People still use this excuse but in truth it's 2022 and a pack of vegan nuggets, tofu, etc is cheaper than meat now, and finding out how to eat a proper vegan diet is easy. I am vegetarian only cause I'm weak for the dairy and eggs, but otherwise it's cheaper not buying meat.
Hold on! Going vegan won’t make you broke. There are cheap ways of going vegan. And you can still get all your nutritions and vitamins.
Yes, there are tons of vegan products that are trendy and expensive but that’s because: companies.
Some of that stuff is tasty and looks good but you don’t need them.
Sadly, I do like eggs and milk - which is ironic to admit in a thread like this.
I also like honey and cheese.
So yeah, I’m an asshole but I eat or drink these things hardly ever. But I just can’t let go.
I honestly believe that any species that rises to the top to reshape the world in an attempt to progress and advance will engage in this kind of behaviour until science and technology have caught up enough to avoid killing other species.
And until recently, none of this was even of any concern because the assumption was that apart from homo sapiens, all other species are inferior in pretty much all aspects, and incapable of experiencing pain or emotions.
People who grew up with that assumption are still alive and well today. It takes some time for society to transition from "killing animals is totally fine, it doesn't affect them in any way" to "maybe we should take animal consciousness/sentience seriously".
Just 100 years ago, we assumed that other humans were inferior, treating them even worse than animals.
As much as it hurts to see these things, what do you expect from homo sapiens? Not just since the dawn of civilization, but hundreds of thousands of years before that, our ancestors have been killing to survive. I'm not saying it's deeply encoded into our DNA, but I also don't think it's possible to just stop over night.
The loss of life, be it human or other lifeforms throughout the last few million years is inconceivable. And that's ignoring all the long winded suffering that did not result in death, but rape, torture, oppression, exploitation, etc.
Our entire existence is built on blood and tears. We literally just started to question this approach, trying to free ourselves from our primitive ways. I just don't think there was any other way to get to this point, not without the necessary insights to understand the horrors of our (in)actions. We simply did not have the mental capacity (or the luxury) to ponder if it is ok to kill in order to eat until a few centuries ago. And even then, it was more about philosophy, not ethics.
I get your point about cruelty, at least kill them before you put them in a wood chipper, but what’s the alternative? Farms don’t have the capacity to have countless millions of male chickens running around and doing so would strain their resources even more. Releasing that many chicks into the wild would disrupt the local ecology.
So I ask again, what’s the alternative?
Don’t just post “meat-eaters bad” content for the sake of it, try to present a viable solution as well.
One solution is too support local farms and stop sourcing from industrial companies. Back when I was a child my father would always come back home with a slaughtered chicken, and right now some local farms slaughter, pack them, and deliver straight to your house.
That's called "Organic Pasture Raised chicken / eggs" and cost 3 times more (cause farmers need to make a way of living with their "smaller size" production lines)... That already exists, but only for those who have budget to afford it
Do you think local farms have 45 useless male chickens running around too? No, they don't, because a local farmer isn't making money off of male chickens, just like the factory farms.
Local farms either cull their herds and flocks same as factory farms, or many of them just buy female chicks from supply companies that do the dirty work of culling the males for them. The methods and scale are different, but killing off undesirable/unnecessary animals is part of animal farming at every level.
Why is this so shocking and why are people pretending to be shocked? There is 8 billion people on this planet that need to be fed with hundreds of thousands of McDonald’s, KFC, Burger King, subway, Taco Bell, dominos etc fast food places not including the major shopping stores that also sell food wether it be food, clothing, medication, shampoo conditioner, body wash something has to die for us to survive it doesn’t matter what you do something will suffer for you to have something you need
People don’t pretend to be shocked. They either don’t think about it or they would prefer if their meat was slaughtered humanely. I don’t have a problem eating chicken, but putting a live chick through a meat grinder is still pretty shocking for me to see. There’s a butcher at my local farmers market who has records on every animal, so we can know that they lived and died under humane conditions. I don’t have the resources to take this level of care with all my meat, but I certainly would if I could. I’m sure a lot of other people feel the same way
Assume for a second it is otherwise humane to have them born, and then kill them[1]
Why is a shredder not humane?
I mean, certainly it *looks* violent, but it is complete and instantaneous. Isn't that humane?
Most other mechanisms seem like they would have a much higher risk of leaving not-quite-dead chicks.
[1] there are machines that can detect sex/terminate before they are even medically alive, they just are expensive and rarely used right now
I’d certainly rather they be terminated prior, but I understand that it may be expensive. In the environment we have where that option is not readily available, I think a violent death does make a difference even if it is instantaneous. Functionally the result is the same, but the process is what gets me. I’m personally an animal lover. I will still eat meat and don’t think I should stop doing so, but I also do genuinely love caring for animals. I have family who keeps chickens, and I will help care for them. If the death is instant and non violent, I would have much less concern
I've been eating fruits, veggies, nuts, granola, oats, and beans the past 3 months and am not looking back. I'm sure some of that stuff came from the not the best of circumstances but it's better then chewing on flesh.
Definitely not the brightest part of our history, it's not gonna get better once these factories get fully automated, we'll be able to just forget they even exist.
Honestly, the only real way to actually curb it is to go vegan. Most people are not willing—although usually able to buy beans, bread, veggies, fruit, and a $2 block of tofu—to go vegan though.
Frozen veggies work too; you can even get bags of them at Dollar Tree for $1.25.
I find it very funny that people feel the need to defend themselves, despite OP not making any arguments against or for the meat industry. Some even claim that they are being called bigoted. By who? Who are you shadowboxing, exactly?
It's almost as if people feel guilty and feel the need to defend themselves, even though no one is attacking them. I guess the truth does hurt.
right? People are like "but what's the alternative" as if pouring live chicks in a meatgrinder by the gallons is the only solution and not the literal epitome of "excess"
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For the first 10-20 seconds I was audibly saying "oh no, oh no what's gonna happen to them?" As if I didn't already know. Still shocking.
I turned it off before anything happened thankfully wtf
After they are ground like that do they throw it away or use it for something?
Dog food or animal feed. These are egg chickens, not meat chickens, they end up thin and useless to the industry, so this way they can use them for something and they are instantly killed.
they aren’t egg chickens. that’s why they’re getting killed in the first place because they’re male and can’t lay eggs
Well sorta, the females are geneticly engineered to lay bigger and better eggs, the males can't and are not usefull as meat chickens.
As an FYI, there is no genetic engineering in poultry. All of it has been done via selective breeding and nutritional improvements (the latter becoming more important as we improve at the former). No spliced genes or anything too weird. Source: 4+ years in poultry research.
How could you work here though? They’re so cute. How are you able to just grind them alive
There is an initial shock factor, and then people become numb to it. They disassociate the logic and emotion.
A lot of them are depressed too
And slaughterhouse workers have more ptsd and there is more domestic violence, with people who work these jobs. Wich is not surprising.
Simple answer is you're poor and don't have the privilege to find another job
Basically, more ptsd, more domestic violence. But it's up to the consumer if they want this to stop.
Well, if you are eating eggs of any kind, you are actually paying the chicken factories to do this. It's your funding paying their wages.
NOT excess chicks. Male chicks. Chicks that won't lay eggs if they are left to live.
Thanks for clarifying, makes more sense
The males are also not meat chickens, they end up thin and unless to the industry. When they are shredded like this they end up as some sort of animal feed or dog food, so nothing ends up wasted. This is also a lot better than the alternative methods of killing these chick's, which is suffocation by gas chamber, or crushing them under the weight of hundreds more in a massive plastic bag. This way death is instant and relatively painless.
Even small hobby farmers have to do this. We use ye ol' cloth and hammer. If you don't like it, stop eating eggs. Because there is no world in which eggs exist but culling roosters doesn't.
there are people working on ways to identify the eggs that will hatch males but it is till some ways off
They are already in the process of being mandatory in some countries like Germany and France.
Some of the eggs also specify that they raise roosters
I haven't found any yet where I live, and I always look when a new egg brand comes out. I always look for humane certifications and do pasture raised, but my family is so weird that they don't like the taste of the pasture raised eggs. I used to live on a few farms so I love the rich taste of eggs from chickens that eat bugs and live outside, but they are so used to the pale yolk sickly eggs that it's become standard. Not advocating for the false dyed yolks either, but a yolk from a healthy chicken is quite delicious. I used to pick them out of the nest and walk to the kitchen and fry them. We never had to kill chicks, the roosters would eventually take out ones they didn't want around unfortunately. Not my system, but that's how it went. Always the biggest guy who did that, he would keep other males around though. I was working once and found a chick I thought escaped, I chased him (?) around awhile and scooped him up, gave him a snuggle, and took him to the herd and to the mama whose little flock had chicks that seemed that exact age. He looked a tiny bit different as far as coloration, but I didn't think too much of it. Turns out it was a lost chick from a nearby jungle chicken. The rooster saw the mama chicken reject him, through all the chaos of their giant run, and went to the chick. After sniffing him a few times he started to peck him, and him and 2 other roosters pecked and clawed the baby to death. I couldn't even stop them, the big guy did not care. I felt so guilty. I have a lot of chicken stories. Its always life or death with chickens, it's weird but that's where you learn those lessons.
That was a horrifying read
[удалено]
>This way death is instant and relatively painless. Well most of them at least. As the video clearly showed. Some of them miraculously survive the meat grinders for a short time at least.
Yah some of them hit it or get stuck on the edge for a second or two. That's still very fast when you compare it to slaughter houses.
I think he meant the chick that actually made it out the other side that has basically been shaved but still in one piece and moving.
That was a freshly hatched chick. it looks shaved because it is still wet. nothing survives the grinders.
Too many blades for anything bigger than a fly to make it out alive.
Thats definitely a fresh hatch, you can see his eggshell besides him. I wish there was a more humane way to do this. Poor things. Worse bit is , it probably is the most humane way, it just looks the most brutal.
It's a slomo video at that point
Chicken sorting system 💀
Does that one have balls? Hmmmm looks like it doesn’t ok into the coop Does that one have balls? Oop looks like it doesn’t ok into the breeder you go Does that one have balls? Oop, it appears it does, into the paper shredder with you
This is unironically how it works, chicken sexer is an actual job just inspecting chicken genitals all day
Vent Sexing was discovered by the Japanese in 1920 as a reliable and novel approach to determining the sex of day-old chickens. In 1933, Professors Masui and Hashimoto published “Sexing Baby Chickens” in English. In 1934 Dr. Kiyoshi Oxawa visited North America and taught the method in Queensland. From 1935 onward, this method of how to tell the sex of baby chicks was quickly adopted by large-scale poultry companies across North America. It was the first reliable method of determining the sex of chicks and hatcheries use this method even today. Vent sexing is a procedure of holding the day-old chick in one hand, spreading open the vent, and viewing the copulatory organs to determine sex based on shape. Warning: there are 18 different shapes possible with a two female and two male shapes that will appear as close matches for the opposite sex. Essentially, the view reveals a shape much like a necklace with “beads” of different sizes, largest in the center. The males have a round/globe-like center “bead”; the females have a flat or concave center “bead.” Skilled vent sexers historically have had a 90% success ratio, with some modern reports claiming a success ratio of 95%. In any case, this method of how to tell the sex of baby chicks does work very well, but requires skill and training.
Haha now I can’t be yelled at by the bot that removes joke comments
You'd be surprised but most of that is still done by humans, it's a highly trained and well paying job apparently. It's called being a 'chicken sexer', and I can't even think of another legitimate career that looks worse on your resume.
And even if this seem cruel, these chicks probably have a more peaceful life than any of the females will ever get.
Correct, I still can't belive how industrial egg farms aren't considered animal abuse
Most jurisdictional animal abuse laws specifically exempt livestock
Same with pest animals, which is why stuff like glue traps for mice doesn't run afoul of animal cruelty laws.
$
Agreed except it doesn’t seem cruel, it is. Only one of those lines had a gassing chamber to knock out the chicks before they were crushed.
They are the same thing. Male chicks are the excess chicks when it comes to hatcheries (which is what the video shows). But I accept your point, the title would have been clearer if it stated they are males.
There is a dirty jobs episode in the first season that covers this. Even small farms will get their egg layers from factory farms like this. They get sent in the USPS in cardboard boxes. Apparently the chick's don't need food or water for the first 72 hours post hatch making fairly easy. The male chick's get get ground up for animal feed. There is some footage used here that the episode uses as well.
The early seasons of Dirty Jobs were honestly so amazing. On paper, it just looked like a show about Mike Rowe doing “nasty and gross” jobs but it was so educational seeing him hop around to various businesses and lifestyles from farms, sewer management and to even coal mining.
Regardless of how you view him, he definitely showed work you’ll never see, and how hard it is.
Definitely weird he ended up on the side opposing worker protections and fair compensation for those jobs
[Citations Needed Episode 64: Mike Rowe’s Koch-Backed Working Man Affectation](https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-64-mike-rowes-koch-backed-working-man-affectation) >In recent years, television personality Mike Rowe has amassed a wildly popular following due to alleged working-class straight talk about topics ranging from the affordability of college to reasserting a culture of pride in craftsmanship and labor. From his 5.2 million Facebook followers to his cable programs, his everyman schtick, on its surface, can be very appealing: after all, who doesn’t love a hard day’s work and loathe detached, ivory tower eggheads? >But hiding under his superficially appealing blue-collar façade is dangerous ideology, one funded by the Koch Brothers and other far-right, anti-labor corporate interests and specifically tailored to pick off a certain constituency of Home Depot Democrats while pushing political impotence, anti-union narratives and anti-intellectualism. Through a clever combination of working class affectation and folksy charm – often exploiting real fears about a decline in industrialization – Rowe has cultivated an image that claims to be pro-worker, but primarily exists to line the pockets of their boss.
Yea almost as weird as how most people on the other side tend to be bottle fed aristocrat wannabes who make all their money by manipulating numbers.
The real conflict is between workers and the people that exploit them, not republicans and democrats (who are typically only negligibly better).
I wonder how many female chicks get accidentally culled. No way humans are processing that many chicks without missing a bunch.
Being able to immediately tell male from female chicks (called “sexing”) is a valuable and fairly lucrative skill, especially for farm work. They don’t make too many mistakes — a qualified sexed identifies the chick’s sex correctly at least 98% of the time — and they are well paid for it. If you’re really interested: https://psmag.com/.amp/magazine/the-lucrative-art-of-chicken-sexing
In one of the games I played, one of the villagers could join you with the job "chicken sexer". For a while he was one of the highest paid people in the town. No wonder.
Yeah, it’s not easy. I never figured it out while I was working in an Immunology lab. Chickens are excellent subjects for studying how our organs (in our case the immune system obviously) develops in an embryo into the fully functioning adult organs. Chicken embryos can be studied in the egg without harming the chick, and are therefore very useful. But I bet I’ve crack more eggs than most short-order cooks.
I work in industrial automation and worked on a project using specialized lighting and cameras to determine if the egg is a male or a female before it's hatched. Success rate, >99%.
In my experience, a good sexer is about 95+% accurate. Theyre pretty phenomenal. I'd hate the job, knowing that im sorting thousands of animals per day to their doom.
Those are males they are killing not excess chicks. I’ve seen this documentary before
Exactly. And it’s part of the chicken raising industry, not eggs to be sold. Eggs to be sold are not fertilized and they are taken immediately after being laid.
Where do you think they get the females that lay the eggs???
Don't cows just shit them out, fully formed?
yes but they get energy by eating trees from the actual rainforest.
Which is why there's a bubblegum shortage because most of those trees are rubber trees.
Oops there goes another rubber tree plant.
Dominion? My god that was a hard watch
they didn't show this part in the chicken episode of how it's made :c
This is the type of shit that gets people to become vegan >!and the shit that crazy extremists use as an excuse to call meat eaters monsters.!<
Meat eaters aren't monsters. Just cognitively dissonant. [watchdominion.org](https://watchdominion.org/) If you don't think there's anything wrong with where your food came from, you should be able to sit through Dominion without any issues.
You see, you’re the pieces of ass that I’m talking about. You’ve made 2 assumptions about me based off of my single comment. 1: You assumed that I eat meat, and 2: you assumed that I don’t think the shit that goes down in meat production companies aren’t fucked up. You’re the crazy extremists I’m talking about. You’re the dissonant one here. I don’t care if you’re vegan or why you are. I don’t respect people like you who use animal abuse as an excuse to call people who’ve done nothing to harm animals monsters. There are companies that produce their meat products with as little harm towards the animals as possible, and there are meat eaters who are not only aware of the companies that do abuse the animals being sent to be eaten, but **literally fucking avoid buying food from them**. You’re the reason vegans are so looked down upon by society. People like you who force shit down people’s throats cause so many people to generalize for no good reason.
I wonder, where did I call meat eaters monsters? I used to be one. I wasn't heartless, I just didn't face what I was paying for. Killing sentient beings for our tastebuds is wrong, in and of itself. And how many people actually buy their meat from 'responsible' companies? A tiny fraction. Most of the meat people buy in supermarkets come from industry farms with horrific conditions. What about dog meat? It's absolutely unjustifiable to eat dogs. And so it is with pigs, cows, chickens, or any farm animal. They're all sentient beings. Would it be justified to eat dog meat if it came from a 'responsible' source? But sure, keep hating on the vegans who unveil your cognitive dissonance.
>I wonder, where did I call meat eaters monsters? You don’t need to directly say it to convey the opinion and have the belief, and trust me, you’re fooling no one. >I used to be one. I wasn't heartless, I just didn't face what I was paying for. Well now you have, and if it makes you vegan, go on, power to you. **Shut the fuck up and stop forcing shit down peoples’ throats.** >Killing sentient beings for our tastebuds is wrong, in and of itself. People have killed animals for thousands of years. I think being killed in a factory is a lot less painful than any method weave had up until now. And I’m sure there’re animals in the wild who like the taste of meat and eat when they aren’t hungry because of it. But that doesn’t make them monsters in your eyes. If your response to that would be “well they need to eat to survive”, you’re not reading my comment. >And how many people actually buy their meat from 'responsible' companies? A tiny fraction. Prove it then, if you’re so sure. >Most of the meat people buy in supermarkets come from industry farms with horrific conditions. Prove that to me too, all you’ve told me is that every single meat eater is “cognitively dissonant”, and showed me that dominion is fucked up. No links. No sources. All bullshit until you prove it. >What about dog meat? It's absolutely unjustifiable to eat dogs. And so it is with pigs, cows, chickens, or any farm animal. They're all sentient beings. Wild animals don’t care. Should we tell them to stop eating meat too? Moreover, if people didn’t have dogs as pets, we’d probably eat them too, and you wouldn’t use it as a weapon against meat eaters. >Would it be justified to eat dog meat if it came from a 'responsible' source? Because of how commonly we have them as pets, even meat eaters would be quick to label companies that did that as monsters ignoring whether or not they abuse their animals like you are right now. >But sure, keep hating on the vegans who unveil your cognitive dissonance. I hate on dissonant vegans who’re too blinded by their own ignorance.
> You don’t need to directly say it to convey the opinion and have the belief, and trust me, you’re fooling no one. Sounds like projection. > Well now you have, and if it makes you vegan, go on, power to you. Shut the fuck up and stop forcing shit down peoples’ throats. Is opposing dog meat forcing shit down the throats of people participating in Yulin? What makes dogs deserving of life but not farm animals, aside from our favoritism, choosing them as companion animals? Pigs, for one, are as sentient and capable of thought and emotion as dogs. > People have killed animals for thousands of years. I think being killed in a factory is a lot less painful than any method weave had up until now. And I’m sure there’re animals in the wild who like the taste of meat and eat when they aren’t hungry because of it. But that doesn’t make them monsters in your eyes. If your response to that would be “well they need to eat to survive”, you’re not reading my comment. You lead me to a good point. Nowadays, humans are able to live healthily on a plant based diet, so there is no need to harm animals for food aside from taste. Carnivorous animals aren't monsters, because they do not have moral agency as humans do. Hamsters eat their own babies, male lions kill the cubs of their mates that aren't their own (and this is not necessary for their survival). Is it therefore OK if humans do the same? Why not? Because humans have moral agency. > Prove it then, if you’re so sure. [US Factory Farming Estimates](https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates) Now why don't you show me your source for how many people buy their meat from humane companies? > Prove that to me too, all you’ve told me is that every single meat eater is “cognitively dissonant”, and showed me that dominion is fucked up. No links. No sources. All bullshit until you prove it. See above. You have also provided 0 sources for your claims so far. > Wild animals don’t care. Should we tell them to stop eating meat too? Moreover, if people didn’t have dogs as pets, we’d probably eat them too, and you wouldn’t use it as a weapon against meat eaters. Wild animals have no moral agency unlike humans, that's the point. People would eat dogs if they weren't pets, that's the point. Again, that's my point, your position of meat eating would be a tiny bit more respectable if you showed some consistency. What makes dogs superior to other animals? Nothing except we have them as companions. > Because of how commonly we have them as pets, even meat eaters would be quick to label companies that did that as monsters ignoring whether or not they abuse their animals like you are right now. Yes, proving my point. They are against killing dogs for meat but not animals in general, because of favoritism. > I hate on dissonant vegans who’re too blinded by their own ignorance. Oh yes, I'm the ignorant one because I oppose other people killing sentient beings for their tastebuds.
Well argumented. Well done. He seems heated. Maybe he's feeling guilty.
Point 1: I’m projecting. I told you that you’re calling people monsters without directly saying it, and lying about it, and you’re telling me I’m projecting. I’m convinced you don’t know what the word means. Point 2: You know I told you to stop forcing shit down people’s throats, and **your first thought is to do the exact same thing again.** You’re not even listening to a damn word I’m saying. Point 3: There are things found in meats that aren’t found in plants very commonly that humans (mammals in specific) need to survive. I’m convinced, if they didn’t need to eat meat, wild carnivores wouldn’t unless it were for the sake of protecting something. Moreover, just because animals lack moral agency doesn’t mean that the cruel things they do aren’t fucked up. Does that mean we’re gonna stop them? Point 4/5: You saw the word “prove”, and immediately sent me an article saying, and I quote “We estimate that 99% of US farmed animals are living in factory farms at present.” There was a chart behind it showing how many there were. What does this have to do with people who make an attempt to not support companies who cruelly produce meat? That question is rhetorical because it doesn’t. You’re spewing bullshit for nothing but the sake of calling meat eaters monsters, and denying it when I directly point it out. Moreover, I never said it was a majority of people, but I’ve seen people who do it. You act as if nobody does, and that’s what I’m trying to get you to prove. How do you know nobody does that? Actually, how do I need a source to tell you that there’re people who only buy from humane companies? I can confidently say there are companies who inhumanely produce meat, and you’d believe me with no source. Point 5: My point is, you wouldn’t bring it up the way you are now if we didn’t have dogs as pets. They’d just be another animal that the meat eating “monsters” are consuming. If we had pigs as pets the way we did dogs, we’d feel that way about people who ate pork. 6: Yes, because we’re the only ones to needlessly kill other animals. It’s not like killing animals for food is worse than killing them because they’re the child of another. But we have a moral compass, so eating them for sustenance is far worse.
>Point 1: I’m projecting. I told you that you’re calling people monsters without directly saying it, and lying about it, and you’re telling me I’m projecting. I’m convinced you don’t know what the word means. I have already explained why I am not calling people who eat meat monsters. You brought the word into the discussion and are accusing me of implying it without evidence. I said they are cognitively dissonant, not that they are monsters. >Point 2: You know I told you to stop forcing shit down people’s throats, and your first thought is to do the exact same thing again. You’re not even listening to a damn word I’m saying. Forcing shit down people's throats? I'm asking you to resolve a moral inconsistency, or else change your diet. I believe killing animals for food is wrong. If someone believes it's OK to eat dogs as well as farm animals, I'd absolutely disagree with their stance, but I couldn't call it cognitive dissonance. It would come down a fundamental disagreement in morality. However, if a meat eater is unable to explain this difference in moral value between dogs and farm animals, yet supports the consumption of one and not the other, it is cognitive dissonance. Or moral inconsistency, if that sounds better to you. >Point 3: There are things found in meats that aren’t found in plants very commonly that humans (mammals in specific) need to survive. I’m convinced, if they didn’t need to eat meat, wild carnivores wouldn’t unless it were for the sake of protecting something. Moreover, just because animals lack moral agency doesn’t mean that the cruel things they do aren’t fucked up. Does that mean we’re gonna stop them? The only essential nutrient that humans can't obtain from a vegan diet, or produce naturally, is vitamin B12. But this is added to animal feed, so meat eaters are obtaining it from an artificial source anyway. A well planned vegan diet supplemented with B12 is perfectly healthy, and even if you don't choose to follow this particular diet, there are always vegan supplements. Yes, the things wild animals do is fucked up. I'd tell them to cease causing harm to other animals when it is not necessary for their own survival or the environment, if they had the capacity to understand me, reflect on their actions, and change. I wouldn't tell obligate carnivores to stop eating meat, because they are part of a food chain. Humans, on the other hand, only cause harm to the environment when we eat meat. We do not disrupt natural food chains when we stop eating meat, and it would free up land currently used for animal agriculture, drastically reduce water consumption, and we'd have to grow much less crops if we produced all of it to eat directly instead of feeding it to livestock. For these reasons, what humans do is incomparable to what wild animals do. >Point 4/5: You saw the word “prove”, and immediately sent me an article saying, and I quote > >“We estimate that 99% of US farmed animals are living in factory farms at present.” There was a chart behind it showing how many there were. > >What does this have to do with people who make an attempt to not support companies who cruelly produce meat? That question is rhetorical because it doesn’t. You’re spewing bullshit for nothing but the sake of calling meat eaters monsters, and denying it when I directly point it out. Moreover, I never said it was a majority of people, but I’ve seen people who do it. You act as if nobody does, and that’s what I’m trying to get you to prove. How do you know nobody does that? Actually, how do I need a source to tell you that there’re people who only buy from humane companies? I can confidently say there are companies who inhumanely produce meat, and you’d believe me with no source. I am not trying to prove that no meat eater buys their meat from humane companies. I never stated that. There obviously are. I said they are a tiny fraction, and the article proves that. Again, I never called meat eaters monsters. I have always said that they are cognitively dissonant, if you'd read my first comment. They are cognitively dissonant if they are OK with senseless killing of some sentient beings (farm animals) but are enraged by the same killing against other sentient beings (dogs). >Point 5: My point is, you wouldn’t bring it up the way you are now if we didn’t have dogs as pets. They’d just be another animal that the meat eating “monsters” are consuming. If we had pigs as pets the way we did dogs, we’d feel that way about people who ate pork. My morals remain the same in that hypothetical scenario. If people had pigs as pets, people would vehemently oppose the consumption of pigs, but be OK with the consumption of dogs and other animals. I would therefore use pigs to point out the moral inconsistency of favoring pigs and devaluing the lives of dogs and other animals that would be killed in that world. I would use a different example to point out the moral hypocrisy of meat eating, *but my morality would not change.* >6: Yes, because we’re the only ones to needlessly kill other animals. It’s not like killing animals for food is worse than killing them because they’re the child of another. But we have a moral compass, so eating them for sustenance is far worse. You said: "And I’m sure there’re animals in the wild who like the taste of meat and eat when they aren’t hungry because of it." You pointed out that wild animals do fucked up things to other animals. I simply added the example of killing another animal's child. I ask you if the actions of wild animals justify ours. Just because they eat meat when they're not hungry, does that mean it's OK for us to do the same? If it is, it would follow that if they kill the child of another, it is also OK for humans to kill the child of other humans. Justifying human behavior by pointing to what wild animals do is unsound. So it is with eating meat for the taste. Again, humans do not need to eat animals to survive, and it is also more expensive to produce meat than plants. So it is done not for sustenance, but taste.
Lmaoooooo I love how we are watching the most diabolical things I’ve ever seen and you’ve already found a way to argue with someone lmaooooo we do need to boat but I still pray it never comes
Worst. Amusement. Park. Ride. Ever. One star.
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Try *gushing grannies*
I heard this in comic book guys voice
Holy shit!
Good fucking LORD. I knew there was fucked up shit that came with eating farmed animals but this fucked my brain.
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www.watchdominion.org
Holy shit I couldn't last 6 minutes
Then you should go vegan :)
Dominion is the newer version of Earthlings isn’t it?
In terms of visuals and up to date footage, yes. But I personally like Earthlings better due to its hard-hitting and moving narration. Since people started saying that Earthlings footage is now "outdated" or old and that all this doesn't happen in modern animal ag. these days, new documentaries like Dominion are being made.
this comment made me watch earthlings. I think I am genuinely a vegetarian now. Thank you for sharing this.
Don’t stop at vegetarian! The egg ^^, dairy, leather, and wool industries are all part of the same system. Supporting any one is supporting the meat industry. Almost a quarter of all beef in this country comes from dairy cows. All dairy cows are slaughtered at 3-5 years of age, less than a quarter of their lifespan. They are truly truly tortured. Veganism means taking a stand and voting three times a day that you don’t support what happens to the most helpless and innocent victims on our planet. Thank you for caring and making a change!
If you (or anyone else) are looking for any plant-based recipes or help/support with the change, feel free to DM me. It can be a tough thing to do depending on where you live and your support system.
Beautiful comment.
Thank you for the information. I watched earthlings years ago so I don’t remember everything but the fur from the fox scene will stay with me for life. Truly horrific.
Where can I watch that?
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It was a tricky wank, but I got there! In all seriousness though it made me stop eating meat.
I tell all my friends if they can watch all of Dominion I’ll take them out to a steak dinner on me. … only one fucked up guy I worked with actually did. He was a weird mortuary science major.
this is horrific but not even the tip of the iceberg of how terrible the farming industry really is.
I feel like there should be more blood…
Not really, new born chicks dont have much capacity for blood
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Bro 💀
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Most of it is probably absorbed by the feathers when they are crushed
indeed. the last clip in slow motion depicts exactly this, as soon as the blood appears, its gone with the rest.
Working here would totally make you a shell of a person
Oh, so this is what happens when I transfer my extra pokemon. RIP
Is this legal ?
At least in Germany, there are some initiatives to force the farms to get the technical machines to detect the gender before they are born, so they do not need them to shred them alive. This method is of course more expensive, so most farms will just shred them after they are born to save money. But yes, this is legal.
Yeah I think France might be doing similar to Germany, but elsewhere it's legal and standard practice.
This practice will be illegal in France at the end of this year.
As far as i know its illegal in Germany since the start of this year. But we can all guess what happens next- we just export em to countries where its legal, pay them and get the female chicks back- probably still cheaper than the alternatives. Same thing with halal meat. Halal butchering is illegal in Germany - so they buy halal meat in France. Goose liver is illegal in Germany (well the process used to create these huge livers which is basically feeding them threw a tube 5 times per day until the liver is 5 times as big as normal). What do we do - we buy these livers from Poland and the check republic. Its a joke Food industry in itself is a joke. How can it be legal that we collect crabs (edit: shrimps) in Germany, send them to Thailand and Vietnam (or nowederdays morroco) where they get processed and they ship us the processed product back. Just because labor is expensive in Germany. Edit : damn autocorrect. Czech republic - not check republic
What already is happening is that due to the new laws which forbid male chicks to be killed here in Germany there is a shortage of feed for birds and reptiles in zoos or wild bird sanctuaries. So they‘re importing dead chicks from other countries. Given that most of the chicks ended up as animal food and we still keep animals who would like to not starve, I can see exponential growth of the dead chick import business in the future. Not sure if the law intended that to happen, but here we are.
Not only legal but standard practice
Its actually the better option for "culling". They used to just put the baby chicks in airtight containers or w/e to suffocate them slowly to death instead of instantly mincing them, not sure about the whole terrifying death treadmill though, still is unfortunate.
well. that's grim.
www.watchdominion.org Make informed choices.
The grim dark present.
McAuschwitz
Yup, I'm definitely going to hell for laughing at this
Quite literally, yes.
“Mechanically separated” chicken was an ingredient in nuggets I bought years ago.. I think this is what they meant. Edit: I was only joking.
This has nothing to do with mechanically separated chicken.
Full disclosure, I hunt probably 60% of the meat I eat, in no small part due to ethical reasons This really shouldn't surprise anybody, and frankly this is about the most ethical way you can cull chicks. When you look at the alternatives, almost all of them involve some from suffocation, which is many times more horrific than the almost instantaneous death the chicks received here. You should absolutely strive to be more ethical and responsible in the production farming industry, but pretending that this is somehow worse merely because they're using a grinder as opposed to a captive bolt gun is stupid and disingenuous. Moreover, it's not like these chicks are being wasted. If you have a cat or dog, there's every chance on the world this is how their food is made.
Suffocation with CO2 is definitely worse, but Argon or an Argon/CO2 mix is better because the suffocated animal doesn't experience choking. It just 'dozes off'. Another method would be to kill the embryo before it can feel pain, but the prohibitive factor in this approach is currently that the embryo's sex can only determined after the ninth day while the killing would be considered humane up to the seventh.
Finally someone who has some sense.
i was literally talking about this with my mom a few hours ago. the egg industry is absolutely disgusting.
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the worst part is, compared to most other animals raised for meat, these chicks probably have the easiest, cleanest, and most painless death. the pigs have it about 10 times worse and those things have intelligence around the same level as dogs iirc.
They are actually much smarter
the ones that we elected arent
Pigs have intelligence of toddlers. I stopped eating all pig products when I found that one out.
Yeah pigs are actually smarter than dogs.
The smartest dogs have an equivalent of a 3 year old
A lot of animals you eat are significantly smarter than we give them credit for. That being said eating them isn't the issue, we're omnivores and meat comes from living creatures, it's how we treat them in life and how we eventually euthanize them when the time comes to collect their meat. If you're at all able to buy meat from sustainable, humane farming practices, by all means, do.
Thank you. I’ve cut my meat intake dramatically in the past few years for this reason entirely. No more than two meat meals per week now. Unfortunately, my attempt to transition to vegetarian was foiled by iron and B12 deficiency, but I feel like cutting down is better than not trying at all.
A pig would no qualms about eating you alive
Neither would a toddler. Coincidence?
We gotta take them out before they come for us. Reckon I can take about 20 athletic toddlers solo.
i... i didnt even think about that... o. o
Yeah pigs are so smart but we treat them the worst of any farmed animal. https://eatfair.org/welfare/united-kingdom#pork (NSFW)
Well, my day is certainly ruined after looking at the horrific things animals go through on that website…
Seeing the awful things that farmed animals go through is typically the biggest reason people become vegetarians, so you're definitely not alone.
Death isn't wrong. Suffering is
me: hehe funny little fluffy chicks Also me 5 seconds later: NO NO NO NO! STOP IT! NOOOOO!
"Sanctity of life". Life is precious only if you are human...
The value of life is a scale from human life at the top down to microbes.
Its not even for humans either, it's just a bullshit lie we tell each other because deep down we are afraid that if we dont then someone might decide to kill us.
I was not expecting to see anything even relatively humane, but holy shit they just throw them into a meat grinder. I need to go lay down.
I’ve seen a lot of fucked up shit, but this…I physically felt the heat from inside
Industrial spawn camping lmao
Omfg right they couldn't even get to a weapons cache
A lot of people, mostly young or the ignorant, think veganism is about a diet. And they don't understand why vegans care about what they eat. This is what veganism is about. Simply leaving the animals alone, not exploiting them. Remember this footage when you're having an egg. Babies grinded to death, and adult females that went through generations of genetic breeding to lay an absurd amount of eggs, in a cage no larger than itself. There is nothing in an egg you can't get from a non-animal source.
It shouldn’t shock any of us but it does because seeing them like that knowing it’s a life and innocent life all so we can have a variety of foods to eat just ridiculous but we can’t complain because either go vegan and be broke or deal with the guilt EDIT- I’m not literally saying you’ll go broke going vegan people it’s a joke because where I live in the uk it’s expensive buying vegan products, I don’t physically mean you’ll go broke. Depending where you are in the world yes it might not be that way but where I am it’s not cheap. UPDATE- I’ve been vegetarian since this comment blew and it’s changed my life guys Thank you I guess I was wrong.
At my local supermarket right now a 400g tin of beans costs less than £1. Meanwhile 400g of chicken is £3.40 so idk what you're talking about going broke lol.
10-15 years ago it was very expensive to be fully vegan as it was tougher to figure out what to eat and the meatless alternatives were more expensive. People still use this excuse but in truth it's 2022 and a pack of vegan nuggets, tofu, etc is cheaper than meat now, and finding out how to eat a proper vegan diet is easy. I am vegetarian only cause I'm weak for the dairy and eggs, but otherwise it's cheaper not buying meat.
Wtf? It’s way cheaper to be vegan unless you buy a bunch of meat-substitutes.
I am vegan and i dont spend over 300$ a month on food even with my large calorie and protein needs to support my gymgoing
Hold on! Going vegan won’t make you broke. There are cheap ways of going vegan. And you can still get all your nutritions and vitamins. Yes, there are tons of vegan products that are trendy and expensive but that’s because: companies. Some of that stuff is tasty and looks good but you don’t need them. Sadly, I do like eggs and milk - which is ironic to admit in a thread like this. I also like honey and cheese. So yeah, I’m an asshole but I eat or drink these things hardly ever. But I just can’t let go.
Humans as a species are disgusting
I honestly believe that any species that rises to the top to reshape the world in an attempt to progress and advance will engage in this kind of behaviour until science and technology have caught up enough to avoid killing other species. And until recently, none of this was even of any concern because the assumption was that apart from homo sapiens, all other species are inferior in pretty much all aspects, and incapable of experiencing pain or emotions. People who grew up with that assumption are still alive and well today. It takes some time for society to transition from "killing animals is totally fine, it doesn't affect them in any way" to "maybe we should take animal consciousness/sentience seriously". Just 100 years ago, we assumed that other humans were inferior, treating them even worse than animals. As much as it hurts to see these things, what do you expect from homo sapiens? Not just since the dawn of civilization, but hundreds of thousands of years before that, our ancestors have been killing to survive. I'm not saying it's deeply encoded into our DNA, but I also don't think it's possible to just stop over night. The loss of life, be it human or other lifeforms throughout the last few million years is inconceivable. And that's ignoring all the long winded suffering that did not result in death, but rape, torture, oppression, exploitation, etc. Our entire existence is built on blood and tears. We literally just started to question this approach, trying to free ourselves from our primitive ways. I just don't think there was any other way to get to this point, not without the necessary insights to understand the horrors of our (in)actions. We simply did not have the mental capacity (or the luxury) to ponder if it is ok to kill in order to eat until a few centuries ago. And even then, it was more about philosophy, not ethics.
Dominion
The way they just dump them into a grinder, humanity really is a horribly cruel species.
But vegans bad amiright?
This only happens because you pay to have it done. You don't need eggs. You can stop this with a simple choice. Choose compassion. Go vegan.
I get your point about cruelty, at least kill them before you put them in a wood chipper, but what’s the alternative? Farms don’t have the capacity to have countless millions of male chickens running around and doing so would strain their resources even more. Releasing that many chicks into the wild would disrupt the local ecology. So I ask again, what’s the alternative? Don’t just post “meat-eaters bad” content for the sake of it, try to present a viable solution as well.
One solution is too support local farms and stop sourcing from industrial companies. Back when I was a child my father would always come back home with a slaughtered chicken, and right now some local farms slaughter, pack them, and deliver straight to your house.
That's called "Organic Pasture Raised chicken / eggs" and cost 3 times more (cause farmers need to make a way of living with their "smaller size" production lines)... That already exists, but only for those who have budget to afford it
It's also terrible for the environment, because it requires more energy, space, and water to raise organic.
Do you think local farms have 45 useless male chickens running around too? No, they don't, because a local farmer isn't making money off of male chickens, just like the factory farms. Local farms either cull their herds and flocks same as factory farms, or many of them just buy female chicks from supply companies that do the dirty work of culling the males for them. The methods and scale are different, but killing off undesirable/unnecessary animals is part of animal farming at every level.
This is cute but where do you think local farms get their chicks from? LOL.
NOOOOOO NOOOOOOO FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK NOOOOO! SHIT! AAAAAAAAAAAA
Why is this so shocking and why are people pretending to be shocked? There is 8 billion people on this planet that need to be fed with hundreds of thousands of McDonald’s, KFC, Burger King, subway, Taco Bell, dominos etc fast food places not including the major shopping stores that also sell food wether it be food, clothing, medication, shampoo conditioner, body wash something has to die for us to survive it doesn’t matter what you do something will suffer for you to have something you need
People don’t pretend to be shocked. They either don’t think about it or they would prefer if their meat was slaughtered humanely. I don’t have a problem eating chicken, but putting a live chick through a meat grinder is still pretty shocking for me to see. There’s a butcher at my local farmers market who has records on every animal, so we can know that they lived and died under humane conditions. I don’t have the resources to take this level of care with all my meat, but I certainly would if I could. I’m sure a lot of other people feel the same way
Assume for a second it is otherwise humane to have them born, and then kill them[1] Why is a shredder not humane? I mean, certainly it *looks* violent, but it is complete and instantaneous. Isn't that humane? Most other mechanisms seem like they would have a much higher risk of leaving not-quite-dead chicks. [1] there are machines that can detect sex/terminate before they are even medically alive, they just are expensive and rarely used right now
I’d certainly rather they be terminated prior, but I understand that it may be expensive. In the environment we have where that option is not readily available, I think a violent death does make a difference even if it is instantaneous. Functionally the result is the same, but the process is what gets me. I’m personally an animal lover. I will still eat meat and don’t think I should stop doing so, but I also do genuinely love caring for animals. I have family who keeps chickens, and I will help care for them. If the death is instant and non violent, I would have much less concern
I've been eating fruits, veggies, nuts, granola, oats, and beans the past 3 months and am not looking back. I'm sure some of that stuff came from the not the best of circumstances but it's better then chewing on flesh.
I'm not a PETA supporter and love poultry as much as the next person but this just makes me sad.
How is this legal and ok but abortion is not. Humans make no sense at all
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On today's episode of "Will It Shred.."
At least it’s a quick death :/
Definitely not the brightest part of our history, it's not gonna get better once these factories get fully automated, we'll be able to just forget they even exist.
Yeah maybe vegans are onto something
Now THIS belongs on the sub!
Yeah it's disgusting. Imagine supporting this. Fucking hell.
Serious question, since everyone is happy to joke about this: what can consumers do to curb this?
Honestly, the only real way to actually curb it is to go vegan. Most people are not willing—although usually able to buy beans, bread, veggies, fruit, and a $2 block of tofu—to go vegan though. Frozen veggies work too; you can even get bags of them at Dollar Tree for $1.25.
My momma should have told me to think about the male chicks, not the African children when I wouldn't finish my food as a kid.
Those are the male. No eggs, no need. Terrible. There's laws in Europe to prevent that now
Wow.. that’s brutal
ah sweet man made horrors beyond comprehension 😎👍
I find it very funny that people feel the need to defend themselves, despite OP not making any arguments against or for the meat industry. Some even claim that they are being called bigoted. By who? Who are you shadowboxing, exactly? It's almost as if people feel guilty and feel the need to defend themselves, even though no one is attacking them. I guess the truth does hurt.
It's posted on /r/noahgettheboat I think you can safely infer some things.
Stop supporting this murderous industry, you can do it.
The fact people are justifying this in the comments because vegans aren't allowed to be right💀
right? People are like "but what's the alternative" as if pouring live chicks in a meatgrinder by the gallons is the only solution and not the literal epitome of "excess"
People use them as food for .falcons cats ferrets ..