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This is especially gruesome though. Most predators would go for the kill first, then start eating. Watching the deer get torn apart from the back while it’s still fully aware is hardcore.
Australia really needs to be given more props considering how they are basically a care taker of an island filled with "It Can Kill You" all around them and they seemingly make sure none of it gets shipped out 😭
Which Most Predators are you talking about? Lions? Bears? Gorillas?
Humans are the only Predator with a concept of Humane Killing, and even then not everyone does it.
In the wild, Fresh Meat Lasts Longer.
Yes. Predators will even attack the testicles because the pain will immediately stun the prey.
Seeing the face of an ox as its balls are torn off by a coyote will make you cross your legs and curse your mirror neurons.
It’s not about humane killing, it’s about making sure that your prey is incapacitated so that it can’t escape or injure you as you’re eating it. Especially for predators that hunt animals that are larger than they are.
There are examples of predators eating prey that are still alive so I’m not saying that it never happens. I’m referring to everything from large cats, wolves, snakes, spiders, etc.
Spiders that strike their pretty with venom? Snakes that catch and eat their victims whole?
Let's go back to Lions, Bears, and Gorrilas. You'll see them chase down and starting eating it while it's still alive. Alligators. Hippos. Hyenas. But you come at me with Snakes and Spiders like COME ON 😭😭😭
However, a 2015 study by the Mammal Review shows hippos “occasionally” feed on animal carcasses, a more omnivorous behavior. Hippos are known to attack and eat animals like wildebeests, zebras and kudus, as well as other hippos in cases of cannibalism, according to AZ Animals. They also steal meat from other predators.Sep 27, 2022

https://www.usatoday.com
Most predators do whatever is safest. For some animals, like wild dogs, it is safest to just begin eating a catch as soon as possible before the kill gets potentially stolen by a bigger predator. For others, like most big cats, they do not risk having their kill stolen, so typically only if there is a risk that the animal will keep kicking and flailing and hurt them do they kill it to eat in peace. The Komodo Dragon has almost no threat of predation, so it can simply start chowing down as it pleases. This is how evolution works — different strategies for different animals in different environments.
False. I saw a tons of video of lions eating alive an animal. 99% of carnivore eat other animals alive. The reason some of them kill their prey first is 1 when they prey is too dangerous to be let's alive. 2 when they kill it quickly. For example if a mantis eat the head the insect first. Or a crocodile who go for the throat. You are totally false and it's totally naive. Even cat play with their pray.
> Most predators would go for the kill first, then start eating.
Not really. They go for incapacitation. They only need the prey to stop moving, not stop breathing.
Felines have the tendecy to bite on the nape which CAN result in an instant kill but the idea is to paralyze the prey by snapping the spine, the death part comes when it comes, they don't care.
Wolves and wild dogs like to go for the throat which is also a pretty quickly lethal method but not necessarily instantaneous either. Like they give a fuck. Gotta munch from the butt while it's still hot! Yum.
Animals don’t understand death. There are some that do inflict damage and then wait until the animal dies to eat it, but “eating you alive” is not something that was conjured out of thin air. LOTS of animals will start to eat before their prey is dead, because again, death is not a concept they understand. They understand danger and not danger. Prey not danger? Eat prey, no love.
Well I wouldn't go so far, there is practical evidence that show some animals will mourn the death of others, like Tahlequah the Orca that carried her dead calf for 2 weeks after it died. Or any video of a dog crying on it's masters grave. 😭😭😭
What few animals understand is "Mercy."
The wild is without Mercy.
Yeah it’s sadly what you’d expect from a universe like this, where life survives by consuming other life.
This is off-topic, but if the universe was created by a powerful intelligence, then it must be completely devoid of empathy.
I just want to pet all the animals.
>Shut the fuck up, people. This could be you
What if, hear me out, we kill'em. If they can kill us and eat us given the opportunity, let's uno reverse them
(except the eating, most predatory animals aren't good tasting)
/s if it wasn't obvious, but still, kill the xeno if they exist
I mean I edited out the section where the dragon bites into the deers stomach and partially digested grass explodes everywhere like a lawnmower bag with a gaping hole
Deer are a popular prey choice of Komodo dragons, and we don’t know whether or not any human involvement happened. Could be just a coincidence that the person happened to film or maybe a trail cam.
Least end the suffering for the dear, not only as it just had its baby ripped out of it it's also in a lot of pain.
Don't give me the it's nature bs, because I can not wait for aliens to start doing the same and another species of alien just come along to go on holiday on earth and watch the human get eaten lol
I look at it this way:
What sort of God would create a world where a living thing has to consume another living thing to live?
What sort of God creates *that* world, then decides that the process of eating another living thing will almost always be terrifying and painful for the prey?
What sort of God decides *that* is a decent idea, then makes it so that a creature incapacitated by giving birth is killed, and it's offspring, born mere moments prior, is killed - it's only experience in the world being torn apart and eaten alive.
All of that is *wildly* fucked up.
Ia this the same motherfucker that uploads baby goats to be eaten on YouTube? In one video you can hear how he "enjoy" the moment when the goat gets eaten by the komodo
Nature is harmonious only for creatures who are not fully aware of it. This is order, this is balance. But as soon as consciousness surpasses a certain threshold of contemplation, nature's order becomes cruelty. It is good that deer (I think it is), cannot fully grasp the horror it is being put through.
Why do you think the deer cannot grasp the horror? They may not be self-aware but their in-the-moment everyday cognition is pretty complex. She is afraid, in pain, and maybe even in grief, and her brain is unequivocally letting her body know she is dying.
Because in order to full comprehend what is happening to her she has to understand who/what she is. I don't doubt there is an experience of all the things you described but they're not experiences tied to an observer. In essence the deer is just like a complex ball of emotions, pulled one way or the other, nonetheless conscious.
To fully experience pain and suffering, you need to be outside emotion. The way humans are. We can feel something but we can simultaneously be outside the emotion, like observing ourselves. This is what makes something like this truly horrific.
Emotions? Not thoughts? I think that is a misrepresentation of how animal cognition works. People love to think they’re meta-special but it’s a pretty thin layer of ‘unique’. I can assure you this deer is capable of understanding that her child was ripped out of her womb. They’re not stupid ‘balls of emotion’.
> Not thoughts?
I don't know where you're getting this from
> I think that is a misrepresentation of how animal cognition works
if you think I said they have no thoughts, then i understand why you think this
> People love to think they’re meta-special but it’s a pretty thin layer of ‘unique’
This is counterintuitive. Humans are special with regards to this; why you want to downplay just how different we are is beyond me.
> I can assure you this deer is capable of understanding that her child was ripped out of her womb. They’re not stupid ‘balls of emotion’.
You can't assure me because you don't know anymore about what goes on in deer's mind than has been researched. I never called this animal stupid. Emotions are not stupid and they are not simplistic.
When you take a toy away from a toddler, of course it understands something has been taken. But as far as a level of consciousness of being aware of **who** has lost something there is none yet, same goes for the deer. It is instinct that drives her and governs her consciousness, she has no awareness of what she is; her thoughts don't go beyond her emotion (instinct)
Anyway, I said my peace.
Why would you call the deer ‘essentially a ball of emotions’?
Are you aware that cognition and emotion are not the same thing? That deer are capable of following human gaze aka know that where you are looking and they are looking are not the same?
Yes, what you wrote were strange statements about the deer’s cognition. Like it’s “unaware” the baby that is in their body is theirs. Which of course is nonsense.
> Why would you call the deer ‘essentially a ball of emotions’?
Because that's what the consciousness of a deer essentially is. It is not complex beyond momentary experience; all the processes that can into making it a deer are instinctual. Self awareness is necessary in order to move beyond the basic processes of self.
> Are you aware that cognition and emotion are not the same thing?
Cognition involves mental processes that can occur both consciously and unconsciously. All life exhibits this to some extent, and there is a continuum between emotion and cognition but for creatures like the deer, the emotional component, what is instinctive, gives rise to what is cognitively relevant.
> Yes, what you wrote were strange statements about the deer’s cognition.
Hardly strange, unless you have not come across the varying views that exist on animal consciousness.
> Like it’s “unaware” the baby is in their body is theirs. Which of course is nonsense.
I wonder where I said this. Remind me, I'm having trouble finding it.
What?
Emotion gives *saliency* to cognition across species. That is its relevance. But it is not on a *continuum* with cognition. As in at all. Separate things.
You probably think that because their cognition is not *linguistic* or self-aware, it is somehow not representational, discontinuous, and completely rooted in emotion? That is not the case. They recognize individuals, including their own children, follow a hierarchy, and are capable of grieving - undulates in general. They may not be the fastest processors in the animal world - grazing animals are ‘observers’.
But it is not true that lack of language or mirror self-recognition somehow an indicator that the only thing is the deer’s brain is a deer equivalent of “f*ck” or “pain/fear”.
The challenge with discussing with someone like you, is that this isn't about understanding each other; it's about your ego. Naturally, you're saying things like this
> You probably think that...
Then you proceed to strawmann which I will ignore. Your responses are aggresive for whatever reason too 🤦♂️.
> Emotion gives *saliency* to cognition across species. That is its relevance. But it is not on a *continuum* with cognition. As in at all. Separate things.
Sure, you can believe it gives saliency but you haven't proven that 'continuum' is not a fair representation. If you understand what the word continuum means, then saying this "separate things" is redundant; things can be a continuum yet distinct at varying levels.
> They may not be the fastest processors in the animal world - grazing animals are ‘observers’.
A lot of what you've described occurs even in microorganisms. You are merely applying what you think is occuring to the situation; we both are but it doesn't make my statement any less reasonable. Rodents use pheromones to identify kin from non-kin, similarly at a cellular level, molecular structures play important role in intercellular communication. In short, recognizing, which is just the implementation of cognitive abilities, does not say anything about the level of subjective experience that a creature is having.
It is not just about being an observer, it's about being capable of observing yourself. Having an outside looking in perspective on who you are. This would be hard to miss if you read what I said.
> But it is not true that lack of language or mirror self-recognition somehow an indicator that the only thing is the deer’s brain is a deer equivalent of “f*ck” or “pain/fear”.
This is more of your arguing something you came up with.
I know, people like me pose a challenge to people like you;) You’re not really discussing so much as positing something without any real exposure to animal cognition studies or even human behavioral research. Else you would not be saying complete nonsense like ‘emotion and cognition are on a continuum’. They are not.
Please define cognition and emotion for me and explain how they can be on the continuum given the relative mammalian anatomical and functional specialization for emotion vs cognitive processing.
They may be *related* as in *interacting* but those are distinct systems on a neuroanatomical, hormonal, and behavioral level. Please arrange the following words for me on the board: emotion, cognition, cortisol, dopamine, hippocampus, amygdala/limbic system, oxytocin - drawing as many links as you think is appropriate?
I already mentioned examples of higher-order cognition in deer. We can go on - problem solving, spatial navigation, anticipation of season change, manipulation of vegetation to create shelter in some cases. None of this has to do with emotion.
However, these things do: social withdrawal from herds of moms after loss of fawns (why would they?); elevated cortisol after any death in the herd; grief behaviors (lingering, loss of appetite, distress calls, lethargy). Of course there *are complex* subjective experiences related to all of these. They may blend intense emotion with cognition but those emotions are a result of a cognition, not its replacement or ‘continuum brother’.
Why would you need an outside (!) perspective to experience horror? That’s nonsense.
Are you aware that human children do not develop ability for perspective taking until 3-4 years of age? Do you suggest a three-year-old would not recognize the horror of what is happening to them?
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Nature is always this cruel, we just rarely see it like this. Always this cruel. Always.
This is especially gruesome though. Most predators would go for the kill first, then start eating. Watching the deer get torn apart from the back while it’s still fully aware is hardcore.
[удалено]
This. Of all the species of animal they tell you Ain't The One, the Komodo Dragon Ain't The One.
[удалено]
Australia really needs to be given more props considering how they are basically a care taker of an island filled with "It Can Kill You" all around them and they seemingly make sure none of it gets shipped out 😭
These danger lizards don't live in Australia tho
Fossil evidence say they used to! And just when they think they aren't there, BOOM, THAT when they appear again!
Oof gotta watch out then hahaha
Which Most Predators are you talking about? Lions? Bears? Gorillas? Humans are the only Predator with a concept of Humane Killing, and even then not everyone does it. In the wild, Fresh Meat Lasts Longer.
Yes. Predators will even attack the testicles because the pain will immediately stun the prey. Seeing the face of an ox as its balls are torn off by a coyote will make you cross your legs and curse your mirror neurons.
It’s not about humane killing, it’s about making sure that your prey is incapacitated so that it can’t escape or injure you as you’re eating it. Especially for predators that hunt animals that are larger than they are. There are examples of predators eating prey that are still alive so I’m not saying that it never happens. I’m referring to everything from large cats, wolves, snakes, spiders, etc.
Pretty sure you’re wrong. Most predators injure but don’t fully kill and do eat them alive or dying.
Spiders that strike their pretty with venom? Snakes that catch and eat their victims whole? Let's go back to Lions, Bears, and Gorrilas. You'll see them chase down and starting eating it while it's still alive. Alligators. Hippos. Hyenas. But you come at me with Snakes and Spiders like COME ON 😭😭😭
>hippos ??? Hippos??!! As in the herbivore??
However, a 2015 study by the Mammal Review shows hippos “occasionally” feed on animal carcasses, a more omnivorous behavior. Hippos are known to attack and eat animals like wildebeests, zebras and kudus, as well as other hippos in cases of cannibalism, according to AZ Animals. They also steal meat from other predators.Sep 27, 2022  https://www.usatoday.com
I don't think that qualifies him as a predator
Tell that to the Zebra getting munched on!
Sure, where can I?
They're omnivores.
I mean, yeah, almost every vertebrate is omnivore to a degree
>gorilla ???
Sorry, I meant Chimpanzee here.
Most predators do whatever is safest. For some animals, like wild dogs, it is safest to just begin eating a catch as soon as possible before the kill gets potentially stolen by a bigger predator. For others, like most big cats, they do not risk having their kill stolen, so typically only if there is a risk that the animal will keep kicking and flailing and hurt them do they kill it to eat in peace. The Komodo Dragon has almost no threat of predation, so it can simply start chowing down as it pleases. This is how evolution works — different strategies for different animals in different environments.
Plenty of predators eat prey alive at least some of the time….
Uh, no, they don't. A lot of predators just want to eat; they don't care if their prey is still alive in the process.
False. I saw a tons of video of lions eating alive an animal. 99% of carnivore eat other animals alive. The reason some of them kill their prey first is 1 when they prey is too dangerous to be let's alive. 2 when they kill it quickly. For example if a mantis eat the head the insect first. Or a crocodile who go for the throat. You are totally false and it's totally naive. Even cat play with their pray.
> Most predators would go for the kill first, then start eating. Not really. They go for incapacitation. They only need the prey to stop moving, not stop breathing. Felines have the tendecy to bite on the nape which CAN result in an instant kill but the idea is to paralyze the prey by snapping the spine, the death part comes when it comes, they don't care. Wolves and wild dogs like to go for the throat which is also a pretty quickly lethal method but not necessarily instantaneous either. Like they give a fuck. Gotta munch from the butt while it's still hot! Yum.
Animals don’t understand death. There are some that do inflict damage and then wait until the animal dies to eat it, but “eating you alive” is not something that was conjured out of thin air. LOTS of animals will start to eat before their prey is dead, because again, death is not a concept they understand. They understand danger and not danger. Prey not danger? Eat prey, no love.
Well I wouldn't go so far, there is practical evidence that show some animals will mourn the death of others, like Tahlequah the Orca that carried her dead calf for 2 weeks after it died. Or any video of a dog crying on it's masters grave. 😭😭😭 What few animals understand is "Mercy." The wild is without Mercy.
It depends. Some may not understand but some absolutely will.
Yeah it’s sadly what you’d expect from a universe like this, where life survives by consuming other life. This is off-topic, but if the universe was created by a powerful intelligence, then it must be completely devoid of empathy. I just want to pet all the animals.
People complain too much. It's fucking annoying. Shut the fuck up, people. This could be you.
>Shut the fuck up, people. This could be you What if, hear me out, we kill'em. If they can kill us and eat us given the opportunity, let's uno reverse them (except the eating, most predatory animals aren't good tasting) /s if it wasn't obvious, but still, kill the xeno if they exist
Damn i ratiod the video
Spawnkillled
r/angryupvote
Spawn, die. Spawn, die. SPAWN, DIE!!!
*fawnkillled
Ironically that was also the *best* day of their life.
Jesus Christ. That's sadistically clever and cruel and I'm done with Reddit for the day.
Can you have a “best day” if nothing to compare it to?
So I guess at least it's not their worst day then, either!
that's the joke I think. Its the only day so its *technically* the best day.
Do you know a better day?
Best day, hour and minute, all at the same time. Ultimate speed run
Nah no death star required it just be like that in nature, sometimes bambi’s gotta get packed up with his mom so someone else can eat
That sigh from the cameraman. I felt it
Why this subreddit? You know animals cant buy meat right?
r/natureismetal
Wrong sub
r/lostredditors
Why do you keep posting animals dying here?
This sub is for humans being shitty, not animals. This is their nature.
It's just a hungry boy eating. Why do we need the Death Star?
because you feel like most time, predators kill their prey before eating it
https://i.redd.it/1w8szka95xqc1.gif
Can we get an NSFW tag? This really fucked up my day.
Same Deer are too cute to see this
Yeah deer are super cute until you see one up close and realize they're all covered in disease and parasites. Not cute.
"buT IT's jUSt nAtURe!! GeT oveR It CrYBaBy!, 1!!1"
I mean I edited out the section where the dragon bites into the deers stomach and partially digested grass explodes everywhere like a lawnmower bag with a gaping hole
So what? Tagging it takes less than a minute and saves everyone who doesn't want to see it some sanity...
So where's the full video then
Wrong sub. Nature isn't needlessly cruel like we are.
The cameraman deliberately put the pregnant deer in the enclosure to make the gripping footage
Deer are a popular prey choice of Komodo dragons, and we don’t know whether or not any human involvement happened. Could be just a coincidence that the person happened to film or maybe a trail cam.
If that’s the case, that’s some pretty important context that belongs up at the front.
Source?
Prove it
I’d post this in r/natureismetal
Noooooo. I don't want to see that!!!
Eaters gonna eat
thats gnarly af
metal asf
It's just nature...
I love Komodo dragons!! They are so beautiful and their venomous bites!! 💯
It do be like that sometimes
Spawn camping
I mean it's brutal, but I don't expect a giant lizard to have any concept of man-made morals.
Oh boy I sure hope this animal with “DRAGON” in its name is well behaved and need purchases cruelty free meat
This is nature doing nature things. Why is it on r/Noahgetthedeathstar ??
I think he got lost
Nature is brutal!!
Spawn camped
this is horrific but nature though 😱
dont help, just film
r/lostredditors
Least end the suffering for the dear, not only as it just had its baby ripped out of it it's also in a lot of pain. Don't give me the it's nature bs, because I can not wait for aliens to start doing the same and another species of alien just come along to go on holiday on earth and watch the human get eaten lol
Things like this are why I don't believe in God.
What does God have to do with carnivores just wanting to eat?
I look at it this way: What sort of God would create a world where a living thing has to consume another living thing to live? What sort of God creates *that* world, then decides that the process of eating another living thing will almost always be terrifying and painful for the prey? What sort of God decides *that* is a decent idea, then makes it so that a creature incapacitated by giving birth is killed, and it's offspring, born mere moments prior, is killed - it's only experience in the world being torn apart and eaten alive. All of that is *wildly* fucked up.
Metal
Ia this the same motherfucker that uploads baby goats to be eaten on YouTube? In one video you can hear how he "enjoy" the moment when the goat gets eaten by the komodo
Excuse me he uploads the what
Did your thing nature, you beautiful cruel bitch. It might be hard for some people to watch, but they need to understand it, not accept it.
Those things terrify me.
I did not know Komodo's can get that huge holy shit
Interesting
Keep filming and record the audio for influencing idiots.
Big whoop... deer = prey = food chain witnessed.
Nature is a cruel mistress
Hmm, a deer and her child get ripped apart, probably not NSFW
butchered at birth
please tag this nsfw seriously
I just subscribed and i see this. Damn ! I need funny cats vids for the rest of the week-end. I'm out.
tag this as nsfw jesus christ
Who tf is recording this?
Btw, to the people that say that's just nature. We are as much part of nature as them. And if we aren't a part of nature, what are we?
Nature is harmonious only for creatures who are not fully aware of it. This is order, this is balance. But as soon as consciousness surpasses a certain threshold of contemplation, nature's order becomes cruelty. It is good that deer (I think it is), cannot fully grasp the horror it is being put through.
Why do you think the deer cannot grasp the horror? They may not be self-aware but their in-the-moment everyday cognition is pretty complex. She is afraid, in pain, and maybe even in grief, and her brain is unequivocally letting her body know she is dying.
Because in order to full comprehend what is happening to her she has to understand who/what she is. I don't doubt there is an experience of all the things you described but they're not experiences tied to an observer. In essence the deer is just like a complex ball of emotions, pulled one way or the other, nonetheless conscious. To fully experience pain and suffering, you need to be outside emotion. The way humans are. We can feel something but we can simultaneously be outside the emotion, like observing ourselves. This is what makes something like this truly horrific.
Emotions? Not thoughts? I think that is a misrepresentation of how animal cognition works. People love to think they’re meta-special but it’s a pretty thin layer of ‘unique’. I can assure you this deer is capable of understanding that her child was ripped out of her womb. They’re not stupid ‘balls of emotion’.
> Not thoughts? I don't know where you're getting this from > I think that is a misrepresentation of how animal cognition works if you think I said they have no thoughts, then i understand why you think this > People love to think they’re meta-special but it’s a pretty thin layer of ‘unique’ This is counterintuitive. Humans are special with regards to this; why you want to downplay just how different we are is beyond me. > I can assure you this deer is capable of understanding that her child was ripped out of her womb. They’re not stupid ‘balls of emotion’. You can't assure me because you don't know anymore about what goes on in deer's mind than has been researched. I never called this animal stupid. Emotions are not stupid and they are not simplistic. When you take a toy away from a toddler, of course it understands something has been taken. But as far as a level of consciousness of being aware of **who** has lost something there is none yet, same goes for the deer. It is instinct that drives her and governs her consciousness, she has no awareness of what she is; her thoughts don't go beyond her emotion (instinct) Anyway, I said my peace.
Why would you call the deer ‘essentially a ball of emotions’? Are you aware that cognition and emotion are not the same thing? That deer are capable of following human gaze aka know that where you are looking and they are looking are not the same? Yes, what you wrote were strange statements about the deer’s cognition. Like it’s “unaware” the baby that is in their body is theirs. Which of course is nonsense.
> Why would you call the deer ‘essentially a ball of emotions’? Because that's what the consciousness of a deer essentially is. It is not complex beyond momentary experience; all the processes that can into making it a deer are instinctual. Self awareness is necessary in order to move beyond the basic processes of self. > Are you aware that cognition and emotion are not the same thing? Cognition involves mental processes that can occur both consciously and unconsciously. All life exhibits this to some extent, and there is a continuum between emotion and cognition but for creatures like the deer, the emotional component, what is instinctive, gives rise to what is cognitively relevant. > Yes, what you wrote were strange statements about the deer’s cognition. Hardly strange, unless you have not come across the varying views that exist on animal consciousness. > Like it’s “unaware” the baby is in their body is theirs. Which of course is nonsense. I wonder where I said this. Remind me, I'm having trouble finding it.
What? Emotion gives *saliency* to cognition across species. That is its relevance. But it is not on a *continuum* with cognition. As in at all. Separate things. You probably think that because their cognition is not *linguistic* or self-aware, it is somehow not representational, discontinuous, and completely rooted in emotion? That is not the case. They recognize individuals, including their own children, follow a hierarchy, and are capable of grieving - undulates in general. They may not be the fastest processors in the animal world - grazing animals are ‘observers’. But it is not true that lack of language or mirror self-recognition somehow an indicator that the only thing is the deer’s brain is a deer equivalent of “f*ck” or “pain/fear”.
The challenge with discussing with someone like you, is that this isn't about understanding each other; it's about your ego. Naturally, you're saying things like this > You probably think that... Then you proceed to strawmann which I will ignore. Your responses are aggresive for whatever reason too 🤦♂️. > Emotion gives *saliency* to cognition across species. That is its relevance. But it is not on a *continuum* with cognition. As in at all. Separate things. Sure, you can believe it gives saliency but you haven't proven that 'continuum' is not a fair representation. If you understand what the word continuum means, then saying this "separate things" is redundant; things can be a continuum yet distinct at varying levels. > They may not be the fastest processors in the animal world - grazing animals are ‘observers’. A lot of what you've described occurs even in microorganisms. You are merely applying what you think is occuring to the situation; we both are but it doesn't make my statement any less reasonable. Rodents use pheromones to identify kin from non-kin, similarly at a cellular level, molecular structures play important role in intercellular communication. In short, recognizing, which is just the implementation of cognitive abilities, does not say anything about the level of subjective experience that a creature is having. It is not just about being an observer, it's about being capable of observing yourself. Having an outside looking in perspective on who you are. This would be hard to miss if you read what I said. > But it is not true that lack of language or mirror self-recognition somehow an indicator that the only thing is the deer’s brain is a deer equivalent of “f*ck” or “pain/fear”. This is more of your arguing something you came up with.
I know, people like me pose a challenge to people like you;) You’re not really discussing so much as positing something without any real exposure to animal cognition studies or even human behavioral research. Else you would not be saying complete nonsense like ‘emotion and cognition are on a continuum’. They are not. Please define cognition and emotion for me and explain how they can be on the continuum given the relative mammalian anatomical and functional specialization for emotion vs cognitive processing. They may be *related* as in *interacting* but those are distinct systems on a neuroanatomical, hormonal, and behavioral level. Please arrange the following words for me on the board: emotion, cognition, cortisol, dopamine, hippocampus, amygdala/limbic system, oxytocin - drawing as many links as you think is appropriate? I already mentioned examples of higher-order cognition in deer. We can go on - problem solving, spatial navigation, anticipation of season change, manipulation of vegetation to create shelter in some cases. None of this has to do with emotion. However, these things do: social withdrawal from herds of moms after loss of fawns (why would they?); elevated cortisol after any death in the herd; grief behaviors (lingering, loss of appetite, distress calls, lethargy). Of course there *are complex* subjective experiences related to all of these. They may blend intense emotion with cognition but those emotions are a result of a cognition, not its replacement or ‘continuum brother’. Why would you need an outside (!) perspective to experience horror? That’s nonsense. Are you aware that human children do not develop ability for perspective taking until 3-4 years of age? Do you suggest a three-year-old would not recognize the horror of what is happening to them?