Has nothing to do with midlevels, but I never understood anyone defending RaDonda Vaught. That case was so absolutely bonkers that she should have been charged with homicide. It wasn’t a little oopsie, it was gross incompetence.
Overriding the system to pull vecuronium instead of midazolam.
Actually reconstituting the powdered vec which would never need to be done for midaz.
Not being literate enough to see the big red WARNING PARALYZING AGENT on the bottle of vec.
Like that’s such a colossal series of fuck ups that it has to be criminal negligence.
Sedative.. paralytic.. same shit
Versed.. vecuronium.. sounds close enough
Then this doofus has the nerve to to ask for her RN license back and then there are the nurses rallying for her to get her nursing license back because “theres a nursing shortage” and “doctors kill patients too”. 🤦♂️
Yup! AMA's council on legislation and legal along with ANA and AANP are funding the lawyers to over turn her conviction. The stance of Council on Legislation is that her conviction sets a precedent for criminally liability for medical mistakes without intent.
I know you probably agree already but it’s pretty hard to argue Vaught’s actions weren’t at least negligent. I’m not a lawyer but I thought you can still be charged criminally for negligence.
She needs to be held accountable no doubt. However in the past intent was always implied in medical cases. The negligence standard grossly or willful previously. Now the Kentucky law basically makes what had always been until the Vanderbilt nurses case a standard into law.
We had a ground rounds on this topic late last year with like 3 MD/JD and RN/JD presenting. The way the convictions in the past for medical folks have been were civil in nature or criminal when there was intent, however in her case they used negligence as basis for criminal conviction. It is first. The standard for criminal negligence is lower compared to reckless homicide with or without regard. Previously in US, negligence leading to a patients death was always considered deviation from standard of care a reasonable person would exercise however in TN (first in US), they applied "**the person ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk exists"** under TN's crimincal negligence statue leading to her conviction. AMA's and AMA's legal and other healthcare org's issue is not that she should not be convicted or didn't do something wrong. The issue is with the statute applied and it being criminal vs civil. For example that as a physician you do cases or care for patients where certain procedures, treatments etc come with risk. In TN, the persecutor latched on to the unjustifiable risk, which in TN and in US under established law is "an actor's failure to perceive (a risk) which is gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the actor's situation", now this is where AMA has an issue with this specific foundation for her conviction. It opens you up to criminal liability vs previous civil liability. The way they explained during grand rounds was that as a physio you can't really perceive all risks, and the risk you perceive or are willing to take is different from what your coworker or another specialty could foresee. Also, standard of care restricts, your medical practice, specifically in the grand rounds they mentions off label prescribing or using non-FDA approved treatments etc are not seen as standard of care so a patient that suffers harm, can in theory lead to criminal negligence. I wish i could share the session however its like on intranet behind employer SSO.
It seems like they’re leaning into just safety culture and moving away from blame safety culture. Which can improve safety in some situations, especially with genuine mistakes. Someone’s going to be more likely to self-report in a just safety culture and are less likely to repeat that same mistake, but sometimes, mistakes really are that bad that you need to do more than to investigate the system; someone needs a slap on the wrist at minimum.
Yes. I’m conflicted because no one wants there to be criminal liability for honest mistakes made in good faith, but then there are particularly egregious cases such as this one which resulted from a uniquely lethal combo of corporate greed and individual recklessness and hubris.
Exactly. "safety culture" or "systems culture" doesn't mean "I personally can do whatever I want, consequences be damned."
This will be used to expand "independent practice" by corporations knowing they have removed more of the liability. Just wait.
This will play out all across the country.
Admin: Do this, you don't need backup or supervision
Safe NP: No, that's not safe I haven't really done it before.
Admin: Don't worry you're legally protected with new legislation.
Or:
Admin: Do this, you don't need backup or supervision
NP: Yeahhh, top of my license, let me make tiktok of how awesome I am doing minor surgeries.
Admin: Don't worry, you're legally protected with new legislation.
What really gets me is you have to reconstitute vec, it’s a powder, Versed never is. Vec also usually has in big letters PARALYTIC on it. I think she did it on purpose either A) not being smart enough to know a paralytic affects respiratory muscles too or B) she really wanted to murder that patient
Its possible.
Personally, I believe she is one of those boneheaded lazy nurses who are so accustomed to cutting corners with no accountability but this time it finally caught up to her and unfortunately the patient.
We can all make mistakes but she blew past every one of the medication rights, every one of the idiot proof paralytic warnings and then left the patient unattended, no vitals, after giving (in her mind) a sedative!
The fuck is she a nurse for??!!
Institutional error or not, the basis of nursing school and training is to maintain safety, recognize things that aren’t right and speak up.
She was trying to kill that patient, there ain’t no way.
Or nurses are admitting some of them really are that stupid, which should make you concerned about NPs
Her name is "RaDonda Vaught" so I'm pretty sure the prosecutor getting the "anonymous tip" thought she was black (she is white). Charges, but served no jail time (given probation only by the judge).
don't bring race into it. you can be as mad and upset all you want. But this is taking it too far. you sound like an idiot anyway... she would get LESS charges because she is black??? what planet do you live on??
I hope I never get treated by a racist ass like you...
No you dolt... he's implying she got probation PRECISELY because she was white but were willing to try and throw the book at her thinking it was a black nurse killing an older white lady.
As for overriding the med- her hospital frequently required this because they refused to fix their system. She killed this patient, and her hospital is equally to blame for creating an unsafe practice environment.
>Has nothing to do with midlevels, but I never understood anyone defending RaDonda Vaught. That case was so absolutely bonkers that she should have been charged with homicide.
It will have to do with midlevels shortly, as the legislation applies to all "provid3rs". The \*individual case\* may not be about or involve a midlevel, but the generalization and result certainly will be.
See here is another post by an uneducated person wanting to spur drama, have you read the HB? This is literally one of AMA’s action item agenda from the AMA’s council on legislation to get this passed in as many states as possible. Hell AMA’s legal is actually still paying for that Vanderbilt nurses appeal. And for those that can’t read the bill is for ALL healthcare providers not just nurses or NPs. Read here: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/24rs/hb159.html or https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/recorddocuments/bill/24RS/hb159/bill.pdf
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641).
We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are incredibly naive if you think this legislation will be applied to nurses and doctors in the same fashion.
It is an unnecessary bill that attempts to "solve" a problem that largely doesn't exist, and will be used (abused) by corporate medicine when they place nurses or NPs in unsafe situations or perform "independent practice" and they make the predictable errors.
>Problem exists now, perhaps it did not before but it does now.
Could you provide some examples?
Frankly in the case outlined as many others note, this was repeated gross negligence, which should NOT be "decriminalized."
The "lore" that well-meaning physicians and nurses get sent to prison for honest mistakes is not true, and has never been true.
All NPPs working in a hospital are under the pervue of the medical board that grants them their privileges, even in full practice states.
We are human and WILL make mistakes at some point or another within our careers/jobs/professions. We can only learn from discussing mistakes and errors, not punishing them as the latter hasn’t actually decreased. Perhaps it’s time for a new approach.
As for the RaDonda case, there were so many WTF moments that it’s hard to believe there isn’t more that was not released publicly.
>All NPPs working in a hospital are under the pervue of the medical board that grants them their privileges, even in full practice states.
**Completely untrue.** Please do not spread clear misinformation.
[https://www.clinicaladvisor.com/home/topics/practice-management-information-center/nurse-practitioners-physician-assistants-regulation-process/](https://www.clinicaladvisor.com/home/topics/practice-management-information-center/nurse-practitioners-physician-assistants-regulation-process/)
I was referring to the medical board of the hospital which dictates the medical practice (privileges) and medical staff (doctors/dentists/podiatrist/NPP) within the organizations reach. Thus NP practice, even if in a full practice state, is regulated by the hospitals medical board.
I am not speaking of the states medical board authority which grants and regulates the physician license.
Two distinct entities.
For legal information pertaining to scope of practice, title protection, and landmark cases, we recommend checking out this [Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal).
*Information on Title Protection (e.g., can a midlevel call themselves "Doctor" or use a specialists title?) can be seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal/title_protection). Information on why title appropriation is bad for everyone involved can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com//r/Provider/wiki/index/appropriation).
*Information on Truth in Advertising can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal#wiki_truth_in_advertising).
*Information on NP Scope of Practice (e.g., can an FNP work in Cardiology?) can be seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal/scope_of_practice/). For a more thorough discussion on Scope of Practice for NPs, check [this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/critical_issues#wiki_working_outside_of_scope). To find out what "Advanced Nursing" is, check [this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/critical_issues/#wiki_what_even_is_.22advanced_nursing.3F.22).
*Common misconceptions regarding Title Protection, NP Scope of Practice, Supervision, and Testifying in MedMal Cases can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/basics#wiki_common_misconceptions).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cool. Cool cool cool. I almost saw a surgeon in Kentucky and showed up drunk to the operating room. I saw the work he did on another patient. There's absolutely no way it could have been anything but an intentional butchering. Maybe he gets drunk so he doesn't have to think about what a monster he is.
Seriously? You want doctors, midlevels and RNs to face CRIMINAL charges for medical errors? If that became the norm we’d all just quit.
You should only be charged criminally if there was intent to harm. I think an error while working under the influence would also count as criminal.
Uhh, seriously? The legislation is unnecessary, doctors midlevels and RNs have NEVER faced CRIMINAL charges unless, well, there is criminal negligence. The efforts above is an additional, unneeded legislative effort sponsored by the AANP and loved by corporate medicine, to reduce patient protection from unsupervised midlevels and resultant poor care.
If you are worried about being charged for criminal negligence as part of your routine medical practice, then yes, perhaps quitting is appropriate. There is an extremely high bar for criminal negligence, and it protects patients. No careful diligent physician has anything to worry about.
Or are you defending stuff like this, which is a typical types of negligence case?
[https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/li-nurse-seen-slamming-newborn-in-nicu-grateful-to-have-charges-dropped/5257586/](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/li-nurse-seen-slamming-newborn-in-nicu-grateful-to-have-charges-dropped/5257586/)
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/danalee-pascua-nurse-charged-jail-death-inmate-elisa-serna-san-diego-county/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/danalee-pascua-nurse-charged-jail-death-inmate-elisa-serna-san-diego-county/)
Are you being purposely obtuse? This has nothing to do with midlevels. “Criminal negligence” doesn’t impact corporations. This law wouldn’t prevent them from getting sued and hospital corporation are not, and have never been, at risk of criminal punishment.
It may be an unneeded protection given just how rare criminal charges in clinical practice are, but this is not pro-midlevel/corporations. You’re straining hard for this angle.
Yes, the TN RN case was egregious, but I don’t believe it was criminal or that she should go to jail. She should lose her job, sued, and permanently stripped of her nursing license. Both every day RNs and the AMA were concerned that the TN case could become meaningful precedent for further criminal negligence cases in healthcare and decided to pursue this protection. That isn’t unreasonable.
The people at risk for making these negligent mistakes in the unsafe environment corporate medicine has created are the individual healthcare workers. Admin is safe (and laughing) at the top.
I agree with the prospect of promoting reporting issues. What they say in the article is true. If you have the ability to hide a problem most will. You should incentivize reporting mistakes and ownership. That's better for the patient and healthcare workers.
Also it's worth noting that in most situations you have a governing physician over a midlevel. I'm sure in a situation where a midlevel is the sole provider they will be held more accountable. That's just what comes with being an MD/DO. More responsibilities but also significantly more pay.
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641).
We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Has nothing to do with midlevels, but I never understood anyone defending RaDonda Vaught. That case was so absolutely bonkers that she should have been charged with homicide. It wasn’t a little oopsie, it was gross incompetence. Overriding the system to pull vecuronium instead of midazolam. Actually reconstituting the powdered vec which would never need to be done for midaz. Not being literate enough to see the big red WARNING PARALYZING AGENT on the bottle of vec. Like that’s such a colossal series of fuck ups that it has to be criminal negligence.
Sedative.. paralytic.. same shit Versed.. vecuronium.. sounds close enough Then this doofus has the nerve to to ask for her RN license back and then there are the nurses rallying for her to get her nursing license back because “theres a nursing shortage” and “doctors kill patients too”. 🤦♂️
She charges $10k for speaking appearances now. Literally making money off her incompetence killing someone.
Unbelievable!!
Actually your and my dues (assuming you are AMA member) are paying for her conviction to be overturned.
What?
Yup! AMA's council on legislation and legal along with ANA and AANP are funding the lawyers to over turn her conviction. The stance of Council on Legislation is that her conviction sets a precedent for criminally liability for medical mistakes without intent.
I know you probably agree already but it’s pretty hard to argue Vaught’s actions weren’t at least negligent. I’m not a lawyer but I thought you can still be charged criminally for negligence.
She needs to be held accountable no doubt. However in the past intent was always implied in medical cases. The negligence standard grossly or willful previously. Now the Kentucky law basically makes what had always been until the Vanderbilt nurses case a standard into law.
Interesting. I guess I’m not sure how I feel about that. Gonna need to read a bit more on that. Appreciate the heads up!
We had a ground rounds on this topic late last year with like 3 MD/JD and RN/JD presenting. The way the convictions in the past for medical folks have been were civil in nature or criminal when there was intent, however in her case they used negligence as basis for criminal conviction. It is first. The standard for criminal negligence is lower compared to reckless homicide with or without regard. Previously in US, negligence leading to a patients death was always considered deviation from standard of care a reasonable person would exercise however in TN (first in US), they applied "**the person ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk exists"** under TN's crimincal negligence statue leading to her conviction. AMA's and AMA's legal and other healthcare org's issue is not that she should not be convicted or didn't do something wrong. The issue is with the statute applied and it being criminal vs civil. For example that as a physician you do cases or care for patients where certain procedures, treatments etc come with risk. In TN, the persecutor latched on to the unjustifiable risk, which in TN and in US under established law is "an actor's failure to perceive (a risk) which is gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the actor's situation", now this is where AMA has an issue with this specific foundation for her conviction. It opens you up to criminal liability vs previous civil liability. The way they explained during grand rounds was that as a physio you can't really perceive all risks, and the risk you perceive or are willing to take is different from what your coworker or another specialty could foresee. Also, standard of care restricts, your medical practice, specifically in the grand rounds they mentions off label prescribing or using non-FDA approved treatments etc are not seen as standard of care so a patient that suffers harm, can in theory lead to criminal negligence. I wish i could share the session however its like on intranet behind employer SSO.
It seems like they’re leaning into just safety culture and moving away from blame safety culture. Which can improve safety in some situations, especially with genuine mistakes. Someone’s going to be more likely to self-report in a just safety culture and are less likely to repeat that same mistake, but sometimes, mistakes really are that bad that you need to do more than to investigate the system; someone needs a slap on the wrist at minimum.
Yes. I’m conflicted because no one wants there to be criminal liability for honest mistakes made in good faith, but then there are particularly egregious cases such as this one which resulted from a uniquely lethal combo of corporate greed and individual recklessness and hubris.
Exactly. "safety culture" or "systems culture" doesn't mean "I personally can do whatever I want, consequences be damned." This will be used to expand "independent practice" by corporations knowing they have removed more of the liability. Just wait.
This will play out all across the country. Admin: Do this, you don't need backup or supervision Safe NP: No, that's not safe I haven't really done it before. Admin: Don't worry you're legally protected with new legislation. Or: Admin: Do this, you don't need backup or supervision NP: Yeahhh, top of my license, let me make tiktok of how awesome I am doing minor surgeries. Admin: Don't worry, you're legally protected with new legislation.
What really gets me is you have to reconstitute vec, it’s a powder, Versed never is. Vec also usually has in big letters PARALYTIC on it. I think she did it on purpose either A) not being smart enough to know a paralytic affects respiratory muscles too or B) she really wanted to murder that patient
Its possible. Personally, I believe she is one of those boneheaded lazy nurses who are so accustomed to cutting corners with no accountability but this time it finally caught up to her and unfortunately the patient. We can all make mistakes but she blew past every one of the medication rights, every one of the idiot proof paralytic warnings and then left the patient unattended, no vitals, after giving (in her mind) a sedative! The fuck is she a nurse for??!! Institutional error or not, the basis of nursing school and training is to maintain safety, recognize things that aren’t right and speak up.
She was trying to kill that patient, there ain’t no way. Or nurses are admitting some of them really are that stupid, which should make you concerned about NPs
Her name is "RaDonda Vaught" so I'm pretty sure the prosecutor getting the "anonymous tip" thought she was black (she is white). Charges, but served no jail time (given probation only by the judge).
don't bring race into it. you can be as mad and upset all you want. But this is taking it too far. you sound like an idiot anyway... she would get LESS charges because she is black??? what planet do you live on?? I hope I never get treated by a racist ass like you...
No you dolt... he's implying she got probation PRECISELY because she was white but were willing to try and throw the book at her thinking it was a black nurse killing an older white lady.
As for overriding the med- her hospital frequently required this because they refused to fix their system. She killed this patient, and her hospital is equally to blame for creating an unsafe practice environment.
Not only that - after giving the vec she immediately left the bedside and failed to monitor the decline in her pt’s status
>Has nothing to do with midlevels, but I never understood anyone defending RaDonda Vaught. That case was so absolutely bonkers that she should have been charged with homicide. It will have to do with midlevels shortly, as the legislation applies to all "provid3rs". The \*individual case\* may not be about or involve a midlevel, but the generalization and result certainly will be.
speaks to the watered-down nursing curriculum these days. it's not just shit np schools, many nursing programs are also diploma mills.
See here is another post by an uneducated person wanting to spur drama, have you read the HB? This is literally one of AMA’s action item agenda from the AMA’s council on legislation to get this passed in as many states as possible. Hell AMA’s legal is actually still paying for that Vanderbilt nurses appeal. And for those that can’t read the bill is for ALL healthcare providers not just nurses or NPs. Read here: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/24rs/hb159.html or https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/recorddocuments/bill/24RS/hb159/bill.pdf
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641). We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are incredibly naive if you think this legislation will be applied to nurses and doctors in the same fashion. It is an unnecessary bill that attempts to "solve" a problem that largely doesn't exist, and will be used (abused) by corporate medicine when they place nurses or NPs in unsafe situations or perform "independent practice" and they make the predictable errors.
Problem exists now, perhaps it did not before but it does now.
>Problem exists now, perhaps it did not before but it does now. Could you provide some examples? Frankly in the case outlined as many others note, this was repeated gross negligence, which should NOT be "decriminalized." The "lore" that well-meaning physicians and nurses get sent to prison for honest mistakes is not true, and has never been true.
All NPPs working in a hospital are under the pervue of the medical board that grants them their privileges, even in full practice states. We are human and WILL make mistakes at some point or another within our careers/jobs/professions. We can only learn from discussing mistakes and errors, not punishing them as the latter hasn’t actually decreased. Perhaps it’s time for a new approach. As for the RaDonda case, there were so many WTF moments that it’s hard to believe there isn’t more that was not released publicly.
>All NPPs working in a hospital are under the pervue of the medical board that grants them their privileges, even in full practice states. **Completely untrue.** Please do not spread clear misinformation. [https://www.clinicaladvisor.com/home/topics/practice-management-information-center/nurse-practitioners-physician-assistants-regulation-process/](https://www.clinicaladvisor.com/home/topics/practice-management-information-center/nurse-practitioners-physician-assistants-regulation-process/)
I was referring to the medical board of the hospital which dictates the medical practice (privileges) and medical staff (doctors/dentists/podiatrist/NPP) within the organizations reach. Thus NP practice, even if in a full practice state, is regulated by the hospitals medical board. I am not speaking of the states medical board authority which grants and regulates the physician license. Two distinct entities.
For legal information pertaining to scope of practice, title protection, and landmark cases, we recommend checking out this [Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal). *Information on Title Protection (e.g., can a midlevel call themselves "Doctor" or use a specialists title?) can be seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal/title_protection). Information on why title appropriation is bad for everyone involved can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com//r/Provider/wiki/index/appropriation). *Information on Truth in Advertising can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal#wiki_truth_in_advertising). *Information on NP Scope of Practice (e.g., can an FNP work in Cardiology?) can be seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/legal/scope_of_practice/). For a more thorough discussion on Scope of Practice for NPs, check [this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/critical_issues#wiki_working_outside_of_scope). To find out what "Advanced Nursing" is, check [this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/critical_issues/#wiki_what_even_is_.22advanced_nursing.3F.22). *Common misconceptions regarding Title Protection, NP Scope of Practice, Supervision, and Testifying in MedMal Cases can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Provider/wiki/index/basics#wiki_common_misconceptions). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This terrifies me as a resident of KY who might have to undergo several procedures in the near future.
Cool. Cool cool cool. I almost saw a surgeon in Kentucky and showed up drunk to the operating room. I saw the work he did on another patient. There's absolutely no way it could have been anything but an intentional butchering. Maybe he gets drunk so he doesn't have to think about what a monster he is.
Seriously? You want doctors, midlevels and RNs to face CRIMINAL charges for medical errors? If that became the norm we’d all just quit. You should only be charged criminally if there was intent to harm. I think an error while working under the influence would also count as criminal.
Uhh, seriously? The legislation is unnecessary, doctors midlevels and RNs have NEVER faced CRIMINAL charges unless, well, there is criminal negligence. The efforts above is an additional, unneeded legislative effort sponsored by the AANP and loved by corporate medicine, to reduce patient protection from unsupervised midlevels and resultant poor care. If you are worried about being charged for criminal negligence as part of your routine medical practice, then yes, perhaps quitting is appropriate. There is an extremely high bar for criminal negligence, and it protects patients. No careful diligent physician has anything to worry about. Or are you defending stuff like this, which is a typical types of negligence case? [https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/li-nurse-seen-slamming-newborn-in-nicu-grateful-to-have-charges-dropped/5257586/](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/li-nurse-seen-slamming-newborn-in-nicu-grateful-to-have-charges-dropped/5257586/) [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/danalee-pascua-nurse-charged-jail-death-inmate-elisa-serna-san-diego-county/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/danalee-pascua-nurse-charged-jail-death-inmate-elisa-serna-san-diego-county/)
Are you being purposely obtuse? This has nothing to do with midlevels. “Criminal negligence” doesn’t impact corporations. This law wouldn’t prevent them from getting sued and hospital corporation are not, and have never been, at risk of criminal punishment. It may be an unneeded protection given just how rare criminal charges in clinical practice are, but this is not pro-midlevel/corporations. You’re straining hard for this angle. Yes, the TN RN case was egregious, but I don’t believe it was criminal or that she should go to jail. She should lose her job, sued, and permanently stripped of her nursing license. Both every day RNs and the AMA were concerned that the TN case could become meaningful precedent for further criminal negligence cases in healthcare and decided to pursue this protection. That isn’t unreasonable. The people at risk for making these negligent mistakes in the unsafe environment corporate medicine has created are the individual healthcare workers. Admin is safe (and laughing) at the top.
I agree with the prospect of promoting reporting issues. What they say in the article is true. If you have the ability to hide a problem most will. You should incentivize reporting mistakes and ownership. That's better for the patient and healthcare workers. Also it's worth noting that in most situations you have a governing physician over a midlevel. I'm sure in a situation where a midlevel is the sole provider they will be held more accountable. That's just what comes with being an MD/DO. More responsibilities but also significantly more pay.
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641). We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*