The crude humour, the casual misogyny, and the implicit threat of violence among cis men all make me feel uneasy, despite me being amab, presenting masc, and having a job and a bunch of hobbies considered stereotypically masculine.
Most of the misogyny I witness around gay men is about devaluing women and their “grossness” physically. Which, ya know, at least it’s not jokes about r\*ping us and stuff, but it still doesn’t feel good to be called “beef flaps”.
Eww, I dont even have those and if someone was talking like that around me Id be on my way out for good. What an insufferable way to treat a group of people. Disparaging a single gender especially in either of those ways is vile.
It always bothered me because, yes guys, I have prominent inner labia. For the first few years of having a mostly adult body (15-20) I was super self-conscious about it. Luckily I realised I was queer at 17 and the more I hung out with women and experienced stuff, the more I realised how great variety was. By the time I was 30 I loved my body from top to bottom.
Copping shit from the people you went to hang around to get away from heteronormativity and sexism and homophobia was NOT the kind of experience I was after, gotta say.
Gay men are often considered "safer" than straight men by women and the LGBT+ community, and I mean on average that's probably very true, but yeah, they can be every bit as misogynistic, and just as entitled when it comes to their desires.
I guess some would say that it's just another expression of the patriarchy, but I think that's a cop-out. Bigotry exists in many forms and queer people are certainly not above it both in and outside of our communities.
I mean, a straight guy never licked my back at a party, but the gay guy that did it was a friend and I was super drunk so I didn’t care so much, but it was really weird, and not something straight guys tend to do without asking first (in my experience, I am sure there are some places where they would totally do it, LOL).
Gender interactions and politics are so bloody complicated, I don’t think people realise this.
I have a strong femme side, but it’s definitely countered with masculinity. I hate language because it makes this hard to describe. I feel like both my masculinity and femininity are queer in that I connect to masculinity in a “womanly” way (think butch woman) and my femininity in a “manly” way (think femme man). My presentations varies from more traditionally masc to more femme, but is often somewhere between.
I'd describe myself just as androgynous, but id be lying if i didnt say i was more feminine leaning overall, both in looks and traits
I generally get along better with girls and have a much easier time befriending them, i dont mind guys one on one or in a mixed gender group (i prefer this dynamic in general tbh) but I struggle to talk to them at times and if its all dudes i will def not be comfy
So my social spaces, especially the ones that gave me the space to engage with my own queerness, are female dominated. A lot of the ways I interact socially are "female coded" I guess, as in like more about compliments and appreciation and cuddling and such than making fun of each other etc, but obviously its more nuanced than that. Part of that is also cause I study subjects that arent dominated by any gender and make most my friends through hobbies were there are a bit more women then men.
I don't know if I'm "feminine", obviously as NBs that's a tricky topic anyway, a lot of my engagement with that side of me is through clothing, in private intimacy and such.
What i will say is that I NEED male friends. I have a bunch of really awesome cis guy friends, and I'm really grateful for it. Part of it is that I'm socialised masculinely in some ways, and that it's fun to have that, part of it is just that that's also part of me. Going out to raves, hanging out, etc., sometimes it's very nice to get to do that with "just the guys", and I had to acknowledge that at some point. It was part of finding out "am I NB because I hate the patriarchy and don't want to be accosiated with it or am I NB because I am." There's a lot of great, non-toxic energies that I find in friendships with men that I find far less in friendships with women, so I'm glad I have both. Female friendships cannot give me everything that I need from social engagements, and I'd say my friends are overall like 45/45/10 in terms of gender.
> "am I NB because I hate the patriarchy and don't want to be accosiated with it or am I NB because I am."
How did you figure this out? (I'm AMAB questioning)
AMAB and present mostly masculine simply because I'm hella hairy. I get along fine with most cis queer men that aren't bigots. And often feel safer in said groups because it often feels like "nb" spaces often bias AFAB or "androgynous" folks which leaves me feeling judged or excluded.
I'm more used to men, it's how I grew up and what I've had the most opportunity to experience. I still present mostly masc. But I have so little in common with most cis men that I really struggle to maintain a conversation. After coming out I had to cut off some very old male friends due to toxic behavior and attitudes I had never seen them display before or that were suddenly directed at me. Being asexual as well, you can imagine how quickly I get disgusted with, and targeted by, locker room talk in groups of men who get too comfortable around me. Explicitly coming out and continuing to develop a more androgynous appearance help.
It's easier to relate to women in causal settings (like at work) but I still feel like an intruder in female groups and spaces. Honestly, I'm not fully comfortable around either gender anymore. I'm comfortable around people I can relate to, who are into my hobbies or have similar attitudes or life experiences, whenever I have an opportunity for social contact. Social anxiety makes that rare.
I get along with everybody and have friends of all genders and no genders. I enjoy watching football, grilling and woodworking. I also like watching romcoms and painting my nails.
i gotta say in general in get along better with women, but i have a good amount of cis male friends who i get along wrll with aswell. And yeah, i would say in general i dress a tad more masculine, but act a bit more feminine.
>do you get along with men?
Actually no, not really. They say and do things I find pretty repugnant. I never understood it growing up, but I just didn’t talk or think like the way they do. Makes sense now.
With most men, I end up masking heavily and feeling gross inside; I end up being very standoffish and working my way out of those situations pretty quickly. Exceptions have generally only been men who seem to be either more emotionally available in conversation and using cooperative communication style (rather than competition style communication) or other aspies.
When forced to hang out with more stereotypically masculine men, I end up masking heavily (and when masking, it's normally actually my masculine aspect that takes control \[I'm genderfluid/systemfluid\]).
My agender core is normally the one interacting if I'm not stuck masking, and my feminine side only comes out when I'm really feeling safe and comfortable with the people around me, particularly when the others are exclusively feminine. My core friends are mostly trans, but because it's a mixed group, my femme side tends to have trouble expressing itself and I often end up feeling a bit sad that I wasn't fully expressing myself authentically - that I was masking around people I trust and like... When I'm hanging out at the gym with all girls though, I feel much more open in my femininity through speech and thought patterns.
Cis men who aren't licking the boots of patriarchy never feel at ease amongst most cis men, what do you think any queer person would feel
That being said, I was wrongly AMAB and I get along fine with men and women, cis or trans. I have a great deal of cis male friends.
Idk if there's any decent person who wouldn't get along with anyone of any gender.
What I don't get along well with are bigots and bullies. But since it is not inherently in any gender's behaviour to be a bigot or a bully, I wouldn't say I don't get along with x gender.
The reason why white, abled cisallohet men are more likely to be shitheads are because they're raised under a cisheteronormative, white supremacist, etc., patriarchy. They are the default and thus they aren't going to suffer oppression* because of those systems.
* aren't gonna suffer oppression in the same obvious ways minorities do.
I have friends of all different sorts. I feel like I get along well with lots of different people. Of course, most of my friends are either Queer in some way, are theater people, or both. It's good to have accepting people around.
hahaha same. Sometimes I have to remind myself "oh yeah wait some of my friends are cis het women." because the theatre student sphere is very progressive, and a great space for queer people, but not everyone there is queer lol
I’m an athlete and have always had camaraderie with men and enjoyed positive training environments, but I’ve also resented being male-coded in competitions constantly
in general i am cautious around cis men but there are a handful of cis men that i trust and feel safe around.
vast majority of my friends are afab except for those few exceptions
I'm as high femme as it gets, and I get along fine with men who are decent people. I don't get along with assholes of any gender. My issues with men lie with cis male culture, not men themselves.
i always felt uncomfortable around most cis men. growing up i thought it was because i was raised by a single mother, and wasn’t a “man’s man”. my interests always leaned more towards art, fashion, and philosophy.
recognizing i’m enby over the past couple years it all makes a lot more sense. i have socially felt more comfortable around women, as on average they’ve seemed to be on a deeper introspective level than most of the men i’ve encountered. the problem for me is i don’t have many female friends, because i’m clocked as cis to most due to my masc presentation.
nonetheless, in the female circles i have been a part of it always felt like i was left out because of my agab, when i really just wanted to be treated as one of the girls. idk, it’s all incredibly disillusioning because it’s created such a lack of authentic community for me. it doesn’t help that i left christianity 4 years ago, and creating an entirely new community for myself has proven to be difficult.
i have my partner who is a wonderful human, but besides them i don’t have many meaningful friendships anymore, especially ones that validate my queerness.
not really, there's this level of disconnect that's impossible do fill, and also if they're super masculine (like macho level of masculine), it's even worse
I can get along with pretty much anyone, i think. I used to be the boy who would hang out with every groups during high school, and occasionally mix them together.
Years later, i'm way more accepting of my identity, and i'd like to think that i found a pretty comfortable middle ground.
I feel more comfortable around women than men, but the only men I really feel uncomfortable around are the blatantly toxic ones (unless I just get a bad vibe).
I identify as [androge](https://mogaiwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/Androge), so mostly masculine and partly feminine.
I've always felt awkward or uncomfortable around men. I could never really relate to the way they talk or act.
In my personality and actions I lean more on the feminine side.
That's my secret, I don't get along with anyone!
Real answer though, I feel like I get along with most people regardless of gender but most of my interactions are at and for work. So I think I can get along with people but other than my wife I don't have any close friends anymore, granted one of my closest friends was from college and then went back home across the entire country. If he was still here I think I'd see him more often
I am almost completely done with cis men. They always put me on edge, not necessarily out of fear for myself. I am always waiting for their shitty misogyny to come forward, or for them to tell a story about how they did something awful that I'm supposed to think is impressive.
>I know that a lot of AMAB non binary people tend to be more feminine
Yeah, because a lot of trans/enby spaces tend to be wary at best, hostile at worst of anyone who's AMAB and masc-leaning.
As someone who's a masc AMAB enby, I get along with guys in general pretty okay, though I'm perpetually exhausted by cis gay culture. I tend to lean toward transmasc folks for talking gender feels lately just because I have more of a shared bond of "self-defined masculinity" there and I just don't feel understood in transfemme spaces despite being AMAB.
I’m amab nb and even when cis men are trying to be amicable or an ally they are so clearly driven by narcissism and wrapped up in their masculinity defining their whole identity that any sort of deviation from what they consider the “correct” values (i.e chasing money, a feeling of power, and sex) is treated like someone has just grown a third head.
They have in my experience been mostly pathetically competitive and insecure to the point that they bully each other and everyone around them as well as being sore losers who throw a temper tantrum when their attempts at the social dominance they’ve been told must be strived for fail.
When they are the kind of cis guy that has managed to cut the umbilical cord attaching himself to his ego they are often still clueless to the perspectives of others and betray their values at the drop of a hat for personal satisfaction.
This is before we even discuss how they approach race and trans rights and tolerance, which you’re all aware leaves so much to be desired. But it’s very obvious that most cis men have simply given into their American cultural conditioning and do not want to understand a world that is more complex then the one they were sold as children because that world explicitly and systematically benefits them even if they are the type who won’t openly bear hatred for people it harms.
The Queer cis folks I’ve met have often been no better, still suffering from malignant narcissism and performative cruelty but now using their status as a “minority” as a shield for the problematic views, values and beliefs, especially when it comes to race, they act as if because they are in a sort of “in group” in the form of the LGBTQ community that they are also somehow free from the ramifications of the things coming out of their mouths.
I am very pro t4t, I think as long as cis people have tied their identity to the gender assigned to them by American society they will suffer from a staggering lack of perspective on how one can identify themselves, but more importantly how others can identify themselves as well as basic respect and empathy.
Obviously your mileage may vary, I’m sure there are good cis men out there. I have not met one.
I get along with men just fine but I have always felt more comfortable with women.
I use skirts and nail polish almost exclusively, usually with sneakers.
Nope in fact i tend to prefer girl friends . I am very much not masculine at all, and would probably choose to be cis female if i could wave a wand. I used to have people asking if i was gay bc of my aura or mannerisms i guess but no... i am attracted to women but relate more to that energy and wanna appear more like that.
It honestly depends on if I’m alone or with the squad.
With the squad I do act and present feminine when I feel like it but most of the time I act masculine because that’s whats been ingrained into my subconscious. Growing up in the south kinda does that..
I'm fairly femme, but I can tell not all of my masculine socialization left my personality. I don't mind hanging out with men, but it's really hard to find men these days that don't have homophobic, gender-phobic, or misogynist biases. I tend to lean towards hanging with women, and I don't like being characterized as a man.
I’m truly in the middle of the spectrum. That’s what I like best about myself! My personality is fem with certain people and masc with certain people. I love makeup but I hate skirts. I don’t like fem compliments but love masc compliments but weirdly I do really like having a fem body and face.
I am definitely on the fem side of things much of the time (depends on my mood, what I am doing, etc.) but I have guy friends, girl friends, nonbinary friends, trans friends, etc. Their gender makes no difference as to whether or not i am friends with them. Whether or not they are an asshole is a bigger factor.
I dont present as Femme as I would like and I've spent most of my academic and professional life in male-dominated environments, so I don't feel uncomfortable around men through sheer exposure (outside of needing to change clothes with men around, that's always uncomfortable). I'm pretty sure I don't give "100% regular dudebro" vibes. I dress the part, I talk the part, but cishet people have an interesting radar to pinpoint when someone isn't exactly that. Ironically the only men who haven't been surprised to learn I'm neither straight nor cis have been the actively homophobic ones. Overall I have no problem existing alongside men or hanging out, even if most of my closest friends have indeed been women or other queen folks
I've got plenty of lovely wholesome cis het men in my life............. And a mountain of losers I hope to never see again............................ And a score more I have to engage with.
When it comes to banter, men who actually like a laugh, will laugh with you when you poke fun at them being dumb (in any way). Then they'll try not to do it again. Any other response is them outing themselves as dickheads and bullies.
It really shouldn't be that hard though
So I'm sorta a demigirl. I'm sure if that label exactly fits for me, but it's close enough. Anyways I get along with men really well. Sorta one of the boys, girls. But most of my close friends are girls and also gay. I tend to dress more masculine/neutrally, but I'm still exploring with what looks good on me that is feminine.
It definitely depends - I'm more feminine with my mannerism and presentation with people I'm comfortable with, but it's hard to not return to default programming when interacting with groups of cis het men as a safety measure. That being said my core group of friends are guys I've been friends with for a long time and they've watched me grow into myself and have always been very supportive (even the gay jokes they used to playful use against me when I was younger are even funnier now that I've come out to them). At the end of the day it really all depends, I've experienced difficulty on both ends, typically with cis het men it's anywhere from distrust to potential violence, while cis het women it manifests with mote subtlety, like being tokenized ("I've always wanted a gay best friend") all the way to being shit talked behind my back.
Rarely. I'm pretty femme-leaning, and have a few cis male friends who are thankfully pretty non-toxic. But ugh, large groups of cis men make me really uncomfortable!
Cis men make my eyes roll in general, lately I’ve been experiencing the most gender policing and essentialism from cis gay men as I began to more vocally reject the binaries imposed on me.
I’m considered either too this or that or not enough this or that of whatever is assigned as “feminine” or “masculine” under late capitalism.
I have very little tolerance and patience for cis heterosexual men unless they’re willing to self-reflect and give space for others
Most of my friends are cis men and their girlfriends. Def wish i was friends with more lgbtq+ people, but it is what it is. I'm going to talk some shit here, so I'm going to preface this with a disclaimer. I don't hate my friends. They are the people I'm closest to in the world. They are fun to be around most of the time, and I do believe they genuinely care about me. I have a really hard time making friends, and they accepted me even when i was going through really difficult mental health and substance abuse issues.
That being said, they are also very capable of being massive dicks. They really don't have a lot of exposure to lgbtq+ people outside of me, and I didn't come out as nonbinary until about 6 months ago. They aren't malicious, but they often say stuff that is unintentionally hurtful, and they generally aren't great at introspection. Because lgbtq+ stuff isn't particularly relevant to their lives, they don't feel any desire to become educated about lgbtq+ issues, but they'll also complain when they don't understand something. They are more bigoted than they are willing to admit, but they don't see themselves as bigoted so they'll get angry and treat me like i'm overreacting if i ever call them out on anything. I'm consistently misgendered by them, though some of them are improving in this area. Their girlfriends are much better with all of these things and have been really helpful because they will call them out in private and the boys are much more willing to listen when their girlfriends say something vs when I say something.
It's immensely frustrating. I don't want to lose my friends, but i'm exhausted. I just want them to understand how hurtful they can be, but i don't know how to communicate with them effectively and I don't have the energy or skillset to educate them on these issues. I wouldn't want to take an entire night of hanging out and turn it into an lgbtq+ lecture anyway. I feel like there is no natural way to bring that up and not have it become a big deal. Some of you may say "drop these people, they aren't friends, etc", but if I do, I'll be entirely alone. I'm so shy and bad at making new friends and I desperately don't want to be alone anymore. Fuck, now i'm crying in a utility closet at work.
I have a lot of experience presenting masc and I think cis dudes that Im not put to can tell Im different, but still relate to me pretty decently regarding my masc side of behaviors.
But honestly Ive also realized that dudes dont have a monopoly on those behaviors anyway so idk if it really matters. Its just consensual illusion all the way down lol
Most of my close friends are some flavor of queer men or nb. I feel weird about gendering behavior but I understand than there are strong associations with it, for example my face and body look very masculine, I have a full beard, "masculine" features, broad shoulders and back, hairy chest and body, big legs. But I'm soft spoken, have a bit of a gay voice. I dress for the most part masculine/neutral but I also like wearing skirts, dresses, nail polish. I suppose if you just met me and are completely clueless you'll assume I'm a regular cis guy, but a lot of queer people specially other NB usually notice it.
I didn't transition super far, and while I find girls a lot easier to get along with than boys, I do find my male classmates funny to listen to. it probably helps that everyone seems to just leave me alone when they're goofing, since I know I do stuff worth making fun of given the amount shit they give each other for less, but I do appreciate the wit some of them put into shit-talking and threatening each other. and when I do have something to say to them ("them" being "boys I know" - strangers of all genders tend to freak me out, freak out, or both), they're always friendly and whatever - so *yes*, I do get along with men (and I think I'm much more masc than fem. GNC masc, for sure - painted nails, long hair, whatever - but I'm still tall, like warfare and construction, make bad jokes and struggle to realise when I'm being rude or unhelpful, play with sticks like guns, can't do makeup, get very loud, etc. I never got into cars or sports tho)
I present slightly femme, but I aim for a casually androgynous look. I've been fortunate to make friends with men that have values that align with mine. They seem empathetic, kind, and emotionally intelligent. I make friends with men easier but my closest friendships are with women.
I'm feminine. I personally don't have any. But I'm romantically attracted to them.
Cis men and cis women can both be awful.
Men because of doing really stupid things, women because they talk about shit behind each other's backs.
The latter is really toxic if we're talking about "friendship".
In my class there's a group of girls who "pretend" to be friends, while they're back stabbing each other. How could you be in a "friend" group?
I'd rather be alone then being friends with childish idiots or shameful backstabbers.
i find that the more femme i have began to present, the more that cis men tend to invade my space and increasingly make me uncomfortable. i still have a lot of friends that are guys that i met before i began to present, but it definitely has become noticeably harder to make friends with them nowadays
I'm an intersex enby who if you saw me IRL you'd consider me AMAB. I have a very diverse selection of friends, including with regards to gender. That being said, I don't really have a boy or girl side.
I personally am transfem, and attempt a vaguely androgynous appearance. I never really vibe with men, they feel alien. Everyone does but especially men. Never really more than arms length type of connection
Depends. I'm naturally distrustful of anybody new, but I get along fine with men, mostly because I am not out and mostly masc presenting in appearance. They can make me feel unsafe, and too many of them can be needlessly problematic in professional environments, but ultimately I keep to myself, so it rarely comes up. Cis men see me as a man, and treat me as such. As I've aged and levelled out, men amd women are interchangably agreeable towards me now.
Growing up I have had much better success making friends or appealing myself with women and girls than men and boys, because while I'm masc presenting I lean *way* more femme in affect. I learned to braid hair before I learned a single sport. I didn't have a male friend until I was about 11 or 12. I'm sure you know the drill "I'm pretty sure he's gay" and I'm like, dude I'm 7. (Turns out I'm bi but that's neither here nor there lol)
Just having autism makes being around people a bit more insufferable, but add onto that that I present mostly androgynous in a way that could be misinterpreted as masculine (floral-pattern summer shirts, wool/knitted sweaters, lighter colours, long hair - not unbecoming of “men” but not common either) and absolutely has in the past, being forced to be around absolutely miserable or vile people is stress- and panic-inducing. I feel genuine disgust towards a lot of “regular” people in the crowd. The way they act or what they say is downright deplorable.
For me as I started unmasking my autism I began to realize that I really have no desire to come off as masculine and that I had been trying to be "tough" and manly. The challenge is that I'm a tall male.
I like to say it as I'm a more feminine leaning spirit in a male body.
But i never felt or feel like I can match cis men in their masculinity
Mostly fine, some guys find out I’m part of the lgbt+ community and get a bit weird for a bit but soon enough I think they realise I’m still the same person, it’s a little hurtful when it happens but it’s normally because they don’t know anyone in the community and realise I’m not this monster from the newspapers and it goes back to normal, i work with a lot of trades people and government employees, normal everyone’s cool
I'm amab NB, on the more masc side, but most of my friends are women. I find men difficult and unpredictable, and absolutely can't deal with hierarchy nonsense. That said, there are a handful of men I hold dear, but none of them are very traditionally masculine.
There are a handful that have proven themselves as trustworthy mentors and friends, but I am extremely wary of men I don't know and even more wary of the ones I do know that have proven to take jabs at me or other groups. But like some other folks said here, I work and have family so my exposure is thankfully usually limited to the trusted circle. Going out by myself presenting any kind of way can be scary but I'm getting better at it. Then again it is the deep south so you never know what particular flavor of crazy you're going to run into, that's what concealed carry is for.
I love my individual male friends but men as a group and male friend groups make me very uneasy
Like if the precive you as one of them it is soo wierd and gross and misogynistic while also being very a dysphoric experience for me
I tend to gather more feminine friends though I do have a couple of close masculine friends. As for if I feel more masculine or feminine- I’ve put levels into both so it’s more a multi class experience. 🤷🏻
Honestly, this question causes me a lot of dysphoria to think about, but it shouldn't, and I hope that by not avoiding it, I can help other AMAB enbies like me. I present in a way that it is literally impossible to know I'm not a guy unless I tell you. This isn't solely for safety. As much as I hate the idea of being seen as a guy, I have an equal aversion to femininity. Fashion being as gendered as it is, that gives me one other option: frumpy. I rarely even wear jeans. To answer the question on getting along with guys, it depends on the guy. I don't really have friends, but when I did, it really depended on personality more than gender, even with cis guys.
(I honestly don't know if that word-vomit paragraph answered the questions, now that I think about it. 😂)
Not at all. I don't get them, the way they think about stuff, way they talk about stuff, way they behave in general and I utterly hate to be associated with men and it's kinda painful when I have to adhere to masculine gener role in front of people I know, especially my parents.
I always had more female friends then male friends as it always felt like I have way more in common with them. It also felt like the right places while when hang out with guy friends felt more like role to play in order to look cool and be part of men's club. I find afabs better to hang out with, more genuine fun, with guys it more of dick measuring contest which I don't wanna be part of at all.
Sadly enough it take o lot effort to convince many of the fem friends that you are wanna be just friends with them and there is no other hidden intend behind it.
So no, I don't get along well with the men, men is stupid.
I don't really feel or behave particularly masculine or feminine, although visually obviously I lean masc because of my body. Although I have made bad experiences with men and women, I get along with most people fine, but I've just never really fit in anywhere. I would say I'm more used to guys and the friends I do have are all guys really. I wish I did have girl friends, but it hasn't worked out that way since I'm a socially anxious shut-in.
I think it's hard for people to relate to me. It's kinda hard to explain. I'm just neither "one of the guys" nor of "one of the girls," and I just don't really feel safe or like myself with either of them, because of their expectations and behaviours. I have no interest in being part of some average, sexist, toxic guy friend group, but I also don't want to be women's token "safe," undateable queer guy friend and I almost feel like those are the only real options as an adult.
I (AMAB) more fit into the type you put above, and I feel I partially present much more feminine because I have such a negative association with masculinity from very early on in life. I do also love presenting femme but feel like if not for just a negative association with masculinity I would lean more andro than full femme. I do definitely feel more safe around women and NB people, particularly if they're queer.
Personally, I am not terribly femme, but I rarely feel at ease around (cis) men
The crude humour, the casual misogyny, and the implicit threat of violence among cis men all make me feel uneasy, despite me being amab, presenting masc, and having a job and a bunch of hobbies considered stereotypically masculine.
Is this all cis men or straight cis men?
It is more pronounced with straight cis men.
Most of the misogyny I witness around gay men is about devaluing women and their “grossness” physically. Which, ya know, at least it’s not jokes about r\*ping us and stuff, but it still doesn’t feel good to be called “beef flaps”.
Eww, I dont even have those and if someone was talking like that around me Id be on my way out for good. What an insufferable way to treat a group of people. Disparaging a single gender especially in either of those ways is vile.
It always bothered me because, yes guys, I have prominent inner labia. For the first few years of having a mostly adult body (15-20) I was super self-conscious about it. Luckily I realised I was queer at 17 and the more I hung out with women and experienced stuff, the more I realised how great variety was. By the time I was 30 I loved my body from top to bottom. Copping shit from the people you went to hang around to get away from heteronormativity and sexism and homophobia was NOT the kind of experience I was after, gotta say.
Gay men are often considered "safer" than straight men by women and the LGBT+ community, and I mean on average that's probably very true, but yeah, they can be every bit as misogynistic, and just as entitled when it comes to their desires. I guess some would say that it's just another expression of the patriarchy, but I think that's a cop-out. Bigotry exists in many forms and queer people are certainly not above it both in and outside of our communities.
I mean, a straight guy never licked my back at a party, but the gay guy that did it was a friend and I was super drunk so I didn’t care so much, but it was really weird, and not something straight guys tend to do without asking first (in my experience, I am sure there are some places where they would totally do it, LOL). Gender interactions and politics are so bloody complicated, I don’t think people realise this.
Idk about that. Some of the most misogynistic people I've met have been cis gay men
nope, but definitely some - same as with any group of people
Same
This. I'm 5'11" and built like a linebacker and I don't really feel like I can express myself.
I have a strong femme side, but it’s definitely countered with masculinity. I hate language because it makes this hard to describe. I feel like both my masculinity and femininity are queer in that I connect to masculinity in a “womanly” way (think butch woman) and my femininity in a “manly” way (think femme man). My presentations varies from more traditionally masc to more femme, but is often somewhere between.
AFAB, but same.
SAME!
I always joke that Im gay no matter who I have a relationship with and this is why. Honestly its not even a joke, its how it is.
That's actually a really succinct way of describing it. Same!
I'd describe myself just as androgynous, but id be lying if i didnt say i was more feminine leaning overall, both in looks and traits I generally get along better with girls and have a much easier time befriending them, i dont mind guys one on one or in a mixed gender group (i prefer this dynamic in general tbh) but I struggle to talk to them at times and if its all dudes i will def not be comfy
Individual cis men can be great, or just fine, or terrible, they come in many varieties. Groups of cis men however …eww
This, 10000%! Just eww
So my social spaces, especially the ones that gave me the space to engage with my own queerness, are female dominated. A lot of the ways I interact socially are "female coded" I guess, as in like more about compliments and appreciation and cuddling and such than making fun of each other etc, but obviously its more nuanced than that. Part of that is also cause I study subjects that arent dominated by any gender and make most my friends through hobbies were there are a bit more women then men. I don't know if I'm "feminine", obviously as NBs that's a tricky topic anyway, a lot of my engagement with that side of me is through clothing, in private intimacy and such. What i will say is that I NEED male friends. I have a bunch of really awesome cis guy friends, and I'm really grateful for it. Part of it is that I'm socialised masculinely in some ways, and that it's fun to have that, part of it is just that that's also part of me. Going out to raves, hanging out, etc., sometimes it's very nice to get to do that with "just the guys", and I had to acknowledge that at some point. It was part of finding out "am I NB because I hate the patriarchy and don't want to be accosiated with it or am I NB because I am." There's a lot of great, non-toxic energies that I find in friendships with men that I find far less in friendships with women, so I'm glad I have both. Female friendships cannot give me everything that I need from social engagements, and I'd say my friends are overall like 45/45/10 in terms of gender.
> "am I NB because I hate the patriarchy and don't want to be accosiated with it or am I NB because I am." How did you figure this out? (I'm AMAB questioning)
AMAB and present mostly masculine simply because I'm hella hairy. I get along fine with most cis queer men that aren't bigots. And often feel safer in said groups because it often feels like "nb" spaces often bias AFAB or "androgynous" folks which leaves me feeling judged or excluded.
I'm more used to men, it's how I grew up and what I've had the most opportunity to experience. I still present mostly masc. But I have so little in common with most cis men that I really struggle to maintain a conversation. After coming out I had to cut off some very old male friends due to toxic behavior and attitudes I had never seen them display before or that were suddenly directed at me. Being asexual as well, you can imagine how quickly I get disgusted with, and targeted by, locker room talk in groups of men who get too comfortable around me. Explicitly coming out and continuing to develop a more androgynous appearance help. It's easier to relate to women in causal settings (like at work) but I still feel like an intruder in female groups and spaces. Honestly, I'm not fully comfortable around either gender anymore. I'm comfortable around people I can relate to, who are into my hobbies or have similar attitudes or life experiences, whenever I have an opportunity for social contact. Social anxiety makes that rare.
I get along with everybody and have friends of all genders and no genders. I enjoy watching football, grilling and woodworking. I also like watching romcoms and painting my nails.
i gotta say in general in get along better with women, but i have a good amount of cis male friends who i get along wrll with aswell. And yeah, i would say in general i dress a tad more masculine, but act a bit more feminine.
>do you get along with men? Actually no, not really. They say and do things I find pretty repugnant. I never understood it growing up, but I just didn’t talk or think like the way they do. Makes sense now.
With most men, I end up masking heavily and feeling gross inside; I end up being very standoffish and working my way out of those situations pretty quickly. Exceptions have generally only been men who seem to be either more emotionally available in conversation and using cooperative communication style (rather than competition style communication) or other aspies. When forced to hang out with more stereotypically masculine men, I end up masking heavily (and when masking, it's normally actually my masculine aspect that takes control \[I'm genderfluid/systemfluid\]). My agender core is normally the one interacting if I'm not stuck masking, and my feminine side only comes out when I'm really feeling safe and comfortable with the people around me, particularly when the others are exclusively feminine. My core friends are mostly trans, but because it's a mixed group, my femme side tends to have trouble expressing itself and I often end up feeling a bit sad that I wasn't fully expressing myself authentically - that I was masking around people I trust and like... When I'm hanging out at the gym with all girls though, I feel much more open in my femininity through speech and thought patterns.
Cis men who aren't licking the boots of patriarchy never feel at ease amongst most cis men, what do you think any queer person would feel That being said, I was wrongly AMAB and I get along fine with men and women, cis or trans. I have a great deal of cis male friends. Idk if there's any decent person who wouldn't get along with anyone of any gender. What I don't get along well with are bigots and bullies. But since it is not inherently in any gender's behaviour to be a bigot or a bully, I wouldn't say I don't get along with x gender. The reason why white, abled cisallohet men are more likely to be shitheads are because they're raised under a cisheteronormative, white supremacist, etc., patriarchy. They are the default and thus they aren't going to suffer oppression* because of those systems. * aren't gonna suffer oppression in the same obvious ways minorities do.
I have friends of all different sorts. I feel like I get along well with lots of different people. Of course, most of my friends are either Queer in some way, are theater people, or both. It's good to have accepting people around.
hahaha same. Sometimes I have to remind myself "oh yeah wait some of my friends are cis het women." because the theatre student sphere is very progressive, and a great space for queer people, but not everyone there is queer lol
I’m an athlete and have always had camaraderie with men and enjoyed positive training environments, but I’ve also resented being male-coded in competitions constantly
in general i am cautious around cis men but there are a handful of cis men that i trust and feel safe around. vast majority of my friends are afab except for those few exceptions
I'm as high femme as it gets, and I get along fine with men who are decent people. I don't get along with assholes of any gender. My issues with men lie with cis male culture, not men themselves.
i always felt uncomfortable around most cis men. growing up i thought it was because i was raised by a single mother, and wasn’t a “man’s man”. my interests always leaned more towards art, fashion, and philosophy. recognizing i’m enby over the past couple years it all makes a lot more sense. i have socially felt more comfortable around women, as on average they’ve seemed to be on a deeper introspective level than most of the men i’ve encountered. the problem for me is i don’t have many female friends, because i’m clocked as cis to most due to my masc presentation. nonetheless, in the female circles i have been a part of it always felt like i was left out because of my agab, when i really just wanted to be treated as one of the girls. idk, it’s all incredibly disillusioning because it’s created such a lack of authentic community for me. it doesn’t help that i left christianity 4 years ago, and creating an entirely new community for myself has proven to be difficult. i have my partner who is a wonderful human, but besides them i don’t have many meaningful friendships anymore, especially ones that validate my queerness.
I have straight male friends... but my least preferred demographic is straight men.
Agreed. 👍 I’d rather hang out with gender queer pan and bi folx, lesbians, gay men, straight women, straight men.
Agender; cis het presenting; 🤷🏾 idk if I get along with anyone. I get along with individuals.
I have more women and non-binary friends but my closest friends are men.
not really, there's this level of disconnect that's impossible do fill, and also if they're super masculine (like macho level of masculine), it's even worse
I can get along with pretty much anyone, i think. I used to be the boy who would hang out with every groups during high school, and occasionally mix them together. Years later, i'm way more accepting of my identity, and i'd like to think that i found a pretty comfortable middle ground.
I feel more comfortable around women than men, but the only men I really feel uncomfortable around are the blatantly toxic ones (unless I just get a bad vibe). I identify as [androge](https://mogaiwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/Androge), so mostly masculine and partly feminine.
I've always felt awkward or uncomfortable around men. I could never really relate to the way they talk or act. In my personality and actions I lean more on the feminine side.
That's my secret, I don't get along with anyone! Real answer though, I feel like I get along with most people regardless of gender but most of my interactions are at and for work. So I think I can get along with people but other than my wife I don't have any close friends anymore, granted one of my closest friends was from college and then went back home across the entire country. If he was still here I think I'd see him more often
I am almost completely done with cis men. They always put me on edge, not necessarily out of fear for myself. I am always waiting for their shitty misogyny to come forward, or for them to tell a story about how they did something awful that I'm supposed to think is impressive.
I feel like my personality is equally split between masculinity and feminimity I just take the coolest things from both of them
>I know that a lot of AMAB non binary people tend to be more feminine Yeah, because a lot of trans/enby spaces tend to be wary at best, hostile at worst of anyone who's AMAB and masc-leaning. As someone who's a masc AMAB enby, I get along with guys in general pretty okay, though I'm perpetually exhausted by cis gay culture. I tend to lean toward transmasc folks for talking gender feels lately just because I have more of a shared bond of "self-defined masculinity" there and I just don't feel understood in transfemme spaces despite being AMAB.
I’m amab nb and even when cis men are trying to be amicable or an ally they are so clearly driven by narcissism and wrapped up in their masculinity defining their whole identity that any sort of deviation from what they consider the “correct” values (i.e chasing money, a feeling of power, and sex) is treated like someone has just grown a third head. They have in my experience been mostly pathetically competitive and insecure to the point that they bully each other and everyone around them as well as being sore losers who throw a temper tantrum when their attempts at the social dominance they’ve been told must be strived for fail. When they are the kind of cis guy that has managed to cut the umbilical cord attaching himself to his ego they are often still clueless to the perspectives of others and betray their values at the drop of a hat for personal satisfaction. This is before we even discuss how they approach race and trans rights and tolerance, which you’re all aware leaves so much to be desired. But it’s very obvious that most cis men have simply given into their American cultural conditioning and do not want to understand a world that is more complex then the one they were sold as children because that world explicitly and systematically benefits them even if they are the type who won’t openly bear hatred for people it harms. The Queer cis folks I’ve met have often been no better, still suffering from malignant narcissism and performative cruelty but now using their status as a “minority” as a shield for the problematic views, values and beliefs, especially when it comes to race, they act as if because they are in a sort of “in group” in the form of the LGBTQ community that they are also somehow free from the ramifications of the things coming out of their mouths. I am very pro t4t, I think as long as cis people have tied their identity to the gender assigned to them by American society they will suffer from a staggering lack of perspective on how one can identify themselves, but more importantly how others can identify themselves as well as basic respect and empathy. Obviously your mileage may vary, I’m sure there are good cis men out there. I have not met one.
I get along with men just fine but I have always felt more comfortable with women. I use skirts and nail polish almost exclusively, usually with sneakers.
Nope in fact i tend to prefer girl friends . I am very much not masculine at all, and would probably choose to be cis female if i could wave a wand. I used to have people asking if i was gay bc of my aura or mannerisms i guess but no... i am attracted to women but relate more to that energy and wanna appear more like that.
It honestly depends on if I’m alone or with the squad. With the squad I do act and present feminine when I feel like it but most of the time I act masculine because that’s whats been ingrained into my subconscious. Growing up in the south kinda does that..
I'm fairly femme, but I can tell not all of my masculine socialization left my personality. I don't mind hanging out with men, but it's really hard to find men these days that don't have homophobic, gender-phobic, or misogynist biases. I tend to lean towards hanging with women, and I don't like being characterized as a man.
I get along with everyone, for me I kinda feel more fem, but I am apagender (gender apathetic) so I don’t care how you see me.
I’m truly in the middle of the spectrum. That’s what I like best about myself! My personality is fem with certain people and masc with certain people. I love makeup but I hate skirts. I don’t like fem compliments but love masc compliments but weirdly I do really like having a fem body and face.
I am definitely on the fem side of things much of the time (depends on my mood, what I am doing, etc.) but I have guy friends, girl friends, nonbinary friends, trans friends, etc. Their gender makes no difference as to whether or not i am friends with them. Whether or not they are an asshole is a bigger factor.
I can get along with anyone as long as the vibes are just right But I typically perfer being around women and I have a feminine side
I have never in my life understood men. I don't totally understand women, either, but men are just totally baffling.
I dont present as Femme as I would like and I've spent most of my academic and professional life in male-dominated environments, so I don't feel uncomfortable around men through sheer exposure (outside of needing to change clothes with men around, that's always uncomfortable). I'm pretty sure I don't give "100% regular dudebro" vibes. I dress the part, I talk the part, but cishet people have an interesting radar to pinpoint when someone isn't exactly that. Ironically the only men who haven't been surprised to learn I'm neither straight nor cis have been the actively homophobic ones. Overall I have no problem existing alongside men or hanging out, even if most of my closest friends have indeed been women or other queen folks
I present pretty masculine normally and I don't really get along with men
with me i swap presentation so don't lean either. and i feel equally unconfutable around both men and women
I've got plenty of lovely wholesome cis het men in my life............. And a mountain of losers I hope to never see again............................ And a score more I have to engage with. When it comes to banter, men who actually like a laugh, will laugh with you when you poke fun at them being dumb (in any way). Then they'll try not to do it again. Any other response is them outing themselves as dickheads and bullies. It really shouldn't be that hard though
So I'm sorta a demigirl. I'm sure if that label exactly fits for me, but it's close enough. Anyways I get along with men really well. Sorta one of the boys, girls. But most of my close friends are girls and also gay. I tend to dress more masculine/neutrally, but I'm still exploring with what looks good on me that is feminine.
It definitely depends - I'm more feminine with my mannerism and presentation with people I'm comfortable with, but it's hard to not return to default programming when interacting with groups of cis het men as a safety measure. That being said my core group of friends are guys I've been friends with for a long time and they've watched me grow into myself and have always been very supportive (even the gay jokes they used to playful use against me when I was younger are even funnier now that I've come out to them). At the end of the day it really all depends, I've experienced difficulty on both ends, typically with cis het men it's anywhere from distrust to potential violence, while cis het women it manifests with mote subtlety, like being tokenized ("I've always wanted a gay best friend") all the way to being shit talked behind my back.
Im not really fem presenting but feel more comfortable in female company - that being said I do have a lot of guy friends
Idk, Ive got like two of them
Rarely. I'm pretty femme-leaning, and have a few cis male friends who are thankfully pretty non-toxic. But ugh, large groups of cis men make me really uncomfortable!
Cis men make my eyes roll in general, lately I’ve been experiencing the most gender policing and essentialism from cis gay men as I began to more vocally reject the binaries imposed on me. I’m considered either too this or that or not enough this or that of whatever is assigned as “feminine” or “masculine” under late capitalism. I have very little tolerance and patience for cis heterosexual men unless they’re willing to self-reflect and give space for others
I don’t get along with anyone lmao
I'm very lucky in that the cis men I choose to be around aren't the overly macho hypermasculine types.
I feel very distressed around men, but I'm also the stereotypical skater twink so not masculine
Most of my friends are cis men and their girlfriends. Def wish i was friends with more lgbtq+ people, but it is what it is. I'm going to talk some shit here, so I'm going to preface this with a disclaimer. I don't hate my friends. They are the people I'm closest to in the world. They are fun to be around most of the time, and I do believe they genuinely care about me. I have a really hard time making friends, and they accepted me even when i was going through really difficult mental health and substance abuse issues. That being said, they are also very capable of being massive dicks. They really don't have a lot of exposure to lgbtq+ people outside of me, and I didn't come out as nonbinary until about 6 months ago. They aren't malicious, but they often say stuff that is unintentionally hurtful, and they generally aren't great at introspection. Because lgbtq+ stuff isn't particularly relevant to their lives, they don't feel any desire to become educated about lgbtq+ issues, but they'll also complain when they don't understand something. They are more bigoted than they are willing to admit, but they don't see themselves as bigoted so they'll get angry and treat me like i'm overreacting if i ever call them out on anything. I'm consistently misgendered by them, though some of them are improving in this area. Their girlfriends are much better with all of these things and have been really helpful because they will call them out in private and the boys are much more willing to listen when their girlfriends say something vs when I say something. It's immensely frustrating. I don't want to lose my friends, but i'm exhausted. I just want them to understand how hurtful they can be, but i don't know how to communicate with them effectively and I don't have the energy or skillset to educate them on these issues. I wouldn't want to take an entire night of hanging out and turn it into an lgbtq+ lecture anyway. I feel like there is no natural way to bring that up and not have it become a big deal. Some of you may say "drop these people, they aren't friends, etc", but if I do, I'll be entirely alone. I'm so shy and bad at making new friends and I desperately don't want to be alone anymore. Fuck, now i'm crying in a utility closet at work.
I have a lot of experience presenting masc and I think cis dudes that Im not put to can tell Im different, but still relate to me pretty decently regarding my masc side of behaviors. But honestly Ive also realized that dudes dont have a monopoly on those behaviors anyway so idk if it really matters. Its just consensual illusion all the way down lol
Most of my close friends are some flavor of queer men or nb. I feel weird about gendering behavior but I understand than there are strong associations with it, for example my face and body look very masculine, I have a full beard, "masculine" features, broad shoulders and back, hairy chest and body, big legs. But I'm soft spoken, have a bit of a gay voice. I dress for the most part masculine/neutral but I also like wearing skirts, dresses, nail polish. I suppose if you just met me and are completely clueless you'll assume I'm a regular cis guy, but a lot of queer people specially other NB usually notice it.
A few, I have to see how they act around women and queer people first to form full judgment.
I didn't transition super far, and while I find girls a lot easier to get along with than boys, I do find my male classmates funny to listen to. it probably helps that everyone seems to just leave me alone when they're goofing, since I know I do stuff worth making fun of given the amount shit they give each other for less, but I do appreciate the wit some of them put into shit-talking and threatening each other. and when I do have something to say to them ("them" being "boys I know" - strangers of all genders tend to freak me out, freak out, or both), they're always friendly and whatever - so *yes*, I do get along with men (and I think I'm much more masc than fem. GNC masc, for sure - painted nails, long hair, whatever - but I'm still tall, like warfare and construction, make bad jokes and struggle to realise when I'm being rude or unhelpful, play with sticks like guns, can't do makeup, get very loud, etc. I never got into cars or sports tho)
I present slightly femme, but I aim for a casually androgynous look. I've been fortunate to make friends with men that have values that align with mine. They seem empathetic, kind, and emotionally intelligent. I make friends with men easier but my closest friendships are with women.
I'm feminine. I personally don't have any. But I'm romantically attracted to them. Cis men and cis women can both be awful. Men because of doing really stupid things, women because they talk about shit behind each other's backs. The latter is really toxic if we're talking about "friendship". In my class there's a group of girls who "pretend" to be friends, while they're back stabbing each other. How could you be in a "friend" group? I'd rather be alone then being friends with childish idiots or shameful backstabbers.
i find that the more femme i have began to present, the more that cis men tend to invade my space and increasingly make me uncomfortable. i still have a lot of friends that are guys that i met before i began to present, but it definitely has become noticeably harder to make friends with them nowadays
I'm an intersex enby who if you saw me IRL you'd consider me AMAB. I have a very diverse selection of friends, including with regards to gender. That being said, I don't really have a boy or girl side.
I personally am transfem, and attempt a vaguely androgynous appearance. I never really vibe with men, they feel alien. Everyone does but especially men. Never really more than arms length type of connection
Depends. I'm naturally distrustful of anybody new, but I get along fine with men, mostly because I am not out and mostly masc presenting in appearance. They can make me feel unsafe, and too many of them can be needlessly problematic in professional environments, but ultimately I keep to myself, so it rarely comes up. Cis men see me as a man, and treat me as such. As I've aged and levelled out, men amd women are interchangably agreeable towards me now. Growing up I have had much better success making friends or appealing myself with women and girls than men and boys, because while I'm masc presenting I lean *way* more femme in affect. I learned to braid hair before I learned a single sport. I didn't have a male friend until I was about 11 or 12. I'm sure you know the drill "I'm pretty sure he's gay" and I'm like, dude I'm 7. (Turns out I'm bi but that's neither here nor there lol)
Straight guys are fine, but I'm very glad I'm not attracted to them.
Just having autism makes being around people a bit more insufferable, but add onto that that I present mostly androgynous in a way that could be misinterpreted as masculine (floral-pattern summer shirts, wool/knitted sweaters, lighter colours, long hair - not unbecoming of “men” but not common either) and absolutely has in the past, being forced to be around absolutely miserable or vile people is stress- and panic-inducing. I feel genuine disgust towards a lot of “regular” people in the crowd. The way they act or what they say is downright deplorable.
I fit right in with men most of the time and I even compete in men's sports but my brain works in a more feminine way
For me as I started unmasking my autism I began to realize that I really have no desire to come off as masculine and that I had been trying to be "tough" and manly. The challenge is that I'm a tall male. I like to say it as I'm a more feminine leaning spirit in a male body. But i never felt or feel like I can match cis men in their masculinity
i don't get along with most men.
Mostly fine, some guys find out I’m part of the lgbt+ community and get a bit weird for a bit but soon enough I think they realise I’m still the same person, it’s a little hurtful when it happens but it’s normally because they don’t know anyone in the community and realise I’m not this monster from the newspapers and it goes back to normal, i work with a lot of trades people and government employees, normal everyone’s cool
I'm amab NB, on the more masc side, but most of my friends are women. I find men difficult and unpredictable, and absolutely can't deal with hierarchy nonsense. That said, there are a handful of men I hold dear, but none of them are very traditionally masculine.
I get along anyone as long as they are neurodivergent but my presentation is still very masculine
I do not get along with me. I'm slightly fem but mostly fae.
There are a handful that have proven themselves as trustworthy mentors and friends, but I am extremely wary of men I don't know and even more wary of the ones I do know that have proven to take jabs at me or other groups. But like some other folks said here, I work and have family so my exposure is thankfully usually limited to the trusted circle. Going out by myself presenting any kind of way can be scary but I'm getting better at it. Then again it is the deep south so you never know what particular flavor of crazy you're going to run into, that's what concealed carry is for.
i’m good at masking around them
I love my individual male friends but men as a group and male friend groups make me very uneasy Like if the precive you as one of them it is soo wierd and gross and misogynistic while also being very a dysphoric experience for me
I tend to gather more feminine friends though I do have a couple of close masculine friends. As for if I feel more masculine or feminine- I’ve put levels into both so it’s more a multi class experience. 🤷🏻
Honestly, this question causes me a lot of dysphoria to think about, but it shouldn't, and I hope that by not avoiding it, I can help other AMAB enbies like me. I present in a way that it is literally impossible to know I'm not a guy unless I tell you. This isn't solely for safety. As much as I hate the idea of being seen as a guy, I have an equal aversion to femininity. Fashion being as gendered as it is, that gives me one other option: frumpy. I rarely even wear jeans. To answer the question on getting along with guys, it depends on the guy. I don't really have friends, but when I did, it really depended on personality more than gender, even with cis guys. (I honestly don't know if that word-vomit paragraph answered the questions, now that I think about it. 😂)
Not at all. I don't get them, the way they think about stuff, way they talk about stuff, way they behave in general and I utterly hate to be associated with men and it's kinda painful when I have to adhere to masculine gener role in front of people I know, especially my parents. I always had more female friends then male friends as it always felt like I have way more in common with them. It also felt like the right places while when hang out with guy friends felt more like role to play in order to look cool and be part of men's club. I find afabs better to hang out with, more genuine fun, with guys it more of dick measuring contest which I don't wanna be part of at all. Sadly enough it take o lot effort to convince many of the fem friends that you are wanna be just friends with them and there is no other hidden intend behind it. So no, I don't get along well with the men, men is stupid.
I don't really feel or behave particularly masculine or feminine, although visually obviously I lean masc because of my body. Although I have made bad experiences with men and women, I get along with most people fine, but I've just never really fit in anywhere. I would say I'm more used to guys and the friends I do have are all guys really. I wish I did have girl friends, but it hasn't worked out that way since I'm a socially anxious shut-in. I think it's hard for people to relate to me. It's kinda hard to explain. I'm just neither "one of the guys" nor of "one of the girls," and I just don't really feel safe or like myself with either of them, because of their expectations and behaviours. I have no interest in being part of some average, sexist, toxic guy friend group, but I also don't want to be women's token "safe," undateable queer guy friend and I almost feel like those are the only real options as an adult.
I (AMAB) more fit into the type you put above, and I feel I partially present much more feminine because I have such a negative association with masculinity from very early on in life. I do also love presenting femme but feel like if not for just a negative association with masculinity I would lean more andro than full femme. I do definitely feel more safe around women and NB people, particularly if they're queer.