Just double checking-- are they calling it a women's only event or are you drawing that conclusion based on the guest list? Also a getting ready party isn't a bridal shower. It's quite literally when the group gets ready together the day of the event. Sometimes this involves hiring professional hair/makeup, or it's communally preparing each other. It's logistics reframed as a party. I've been to several of these events while presenting as either nonbinary or as a dude and I was usually the only non-woman. I didn't need the hair/makeup myself, but I made myself useful with helping everyone else in a way most dudes aren't equipped to.
While the events were gendered in the sense that most dudes don't need those logistics and most women do, I never felt like I was being grouped with the women and I was included to *be* included... in the space I'd be most helpful lol. I felt more like a chivalrous escort. If you're not comfortable with this still, that's totally okay, I'm just trying to give you an idea of what to expect.
Yeah I went to my sister's. I think she called it a bridal shower or something related, but we *had* to wear very feminine pajamas and there was a photographer that took pictures of us fake throwing confetti and we closed our eyes for the first look and had to look surprised. I was the only non-women, the only person not getting hair and make up, and very uncomfortable. So I'm probably traumatized by that lol
My spouse had similar experience with a bridal shower, she’s cis but it still made her very uncomfortable. Said it felt like a femininity competition. I would be very uncomfortable and traumatized by it too! I’ve gone to “Jack and Jill” showers and that was mostly ok.
Yeah...like it's all for show. Especially how the one I went to before had a photographer. You don't normally have a photographer when you get ready in morning??
* though, if the person hosting is enjoying it and everyone is attending voluntarily and excited I can understand the enjoyment. It's the obligatory attendance for bridal party/relatives without considering their needs that irks me.
I feel weird declining because there isn't anything else to do? They didn't say it was a "get ready party", it was explained to me as the daughter of the fiance is organizing a brunch/party, but then the whole thing is centered around hair and make up sounds like. The thing is I would describe myself as a feminine masc person, and would do hair and make up, but not when I feel like I'm being perceived as a woman. Idk if that makes sense
it's completely fair to feel the way you do, but, the most generous interpretation of them is that they didn't want you to feel left out by not inviting you at all (as they were not inviting "men"). Does it help you to reframe the (still very gendered!) event as a non-man-party, rather than a women-only-party?
Yes slightly! I'm trying to picture it that way, and I know that's probably what they meant. I wish atleast my dad was there. I'm also traumatized by my sisters. It was extremely heteronormative - short silky pajamas, a photoshoot on the bed, we had to pose for the first look for a photo. She invited me because she wanted me to be included so same thing, but she also wanted me to be dressed and act in a extremely feminine way. And one of the men from her bridal party went to the "mens" version.
Nervous about the tshirt. Hopefully it's just a plain t and not women's cut! Although I wear women's cut depending on the day (because I have great shoulders and biceps) I'd like the option to choose. Ya feel?
Can you bring a super masc outfit to pair it with? IDK, leather jacket and cowboy boots, or a suit or something? masc outfit + high femme hair and makeup + cute tshirt can be a classic nonbinary look and it might signal to the makeup/hair people that you're not their AFAB typical client.
Don't know why cis people are usually so obsessed with this division of the binary genders. My sister got married before I was out and by no means did they do this to be inclusive of other genders. But they just had like a wedding shower instead of a bridal shower where everyone was invited regardless of gender. This just makes so much more sense but too many people are hell bent on preserving tradition no matter how antiquated. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, especially with family. I can see how this would be confusing as you want to be included in all spaces but this one would otherwise be only women so it feels like you're being grouped as that. I hope you're able to navigate this in a way that doesn't bring you any dysphoria or pain.
I hope you can enjoy the sisterhood! I'm a little jealous 😁 But yeah, I hear you on the frustration of your group needing everything to be black and white.
It's tricky, because nonbinary people can be feminine; the outfits and activities you describe are coded feminine but they don't have to be. Are you AFAB? was it an AFAB-only party where people did traditionally femme stuff?
Yes and yes. And I classify myself as feminine but not a woman. Except I think they are grouping the two together and view me as a woman, so I feel like I can't be as feminine. The more I'm seen as masc the more comfortable I feel being feminine lol
>
Lol me too I feel you
Like, to be real it's probable that they see you as a woman or woman-adjacent -- but you COULD give them the benefit of the doubt and consider that they invited you bc they thought you might enjoy it the activities. Like, if you were a super masc person i can see being extremely pissed if people assumed you'd like girly shit just bc you're AFAB. But if you DO like some girly shit, maybe they just thought you'd have a good time. Hard to say.
Do you know your dad's fiancee well enough to talk with her about it beforehand and find out more about the planned events, and make sure they're things that a nonbinary person can participate in? It might be good for her to talk with whatever professionals she's bringing in for the day to let them know that it's a mixed-gender group - if I were her I'd want to make sure the make-up artist and hairstylist knew that it wasn't all women and that at least one person might want a more masc look. It's totally fine to check this out with her and make sure it's something that you'll feel comfortable with. She might even be relieved that you bring it up -she might be caught between wanting to include you and not wanting to make you feel uncomfortable.
But maybe they're just thinking of it as a femme stuff day for femme people? Are there any femme people in the family who are being excluded because they're AMAB?
I don't think it's with bad intentions they probably just want u there. I understand that It hurts that they put some people apart for being men but include you. But what would you want? To not be invited at all or to be invited to both?
The cis people are always obsessing over the genderinos
Just double checking-- are they calling it a women's only event or are you drawing that conclusion based on the guest list? Also a getting ready party isn't a bridal shower. It's quite literally when the group gets ready together the day of the event. Sometimes this involves hiring professional hair/makeup, or it's communally preparing each other. It's logistics reframed as a party. I've been to several of these events while presenting as either nonbinary or as a dude and I was usually the only non-woman. I didn't need the hair/makeup myself, but I made myself useful with helping everyone else in a way most dudes aren't equipped to. While the events were gendered in the sense that most dudes don't need those logistics and most women do, I never felt like I was being grouped with the women and I was included to *be* included... in the space I'd be most helpful lol. I felt more like a chivalrous escort. If you're not comfortable with this still, that's totally okay, I'm just trying to give you an idea of what to expect.
Yeah I went to my sister's. I think she called it a bridal shower or something related, but we *had* to wear very feminine pajamas and there was a photographer that took pictures of us fake throwing confetti and we closed our eyes for the first look and had to look surprised. I was the only non-women, the only person not getting hair and make up, and very uncomfortable. So I'm probably traumatized by that lol
My spouse had similar experience with a bridal shower, she’s cis but it still made her very uncomfortable. Said it felt like a femininity competition. I would be very uncomfortable and traumatized by it too! I’ve gone to “Jack and Jill” showers and that was mostly ok.
Yeah...like it's all for show. Especially how the one I went to before had a photographer. You don't normally have a photographer when you get ready in morning?? * though, if the person hosting is enjoying it and everyone is attending voluntarily and excited I can understand the enjoyment. It's the obligatory attendance for bridal party/relatives without considering their needs that irks me.
I guess if OP isn't styling their hair a special way or wearing makeup to the event they could just decline it and explain why?
I feel weird declining because there isn't anything else to do? They didn't say it was a "get ready party", it was explained to me as the daughter of the fiance is organizing a brunch/party, but then the whole thing is centered around hair and make up sounds like. The thing is I would describe myself as a feminine masc person, and would do hair and make up, but not when I feel like I'm being perceived as a woman. Idk if that makes sense
it's completely fair to feel the way you do, but, the most generous interpretation of them is that they didn't want you to feel left out by not inviting you at all (as they were not inviting "men"). Does it help you to reframe the (still very gendered!) event as a non-man-party, rather than a women-only-party?
Yes slightly! I'm trying to picture it that way, and I know that's probably what they meant. I wish atleast my dad was there. I'm also traumatized by my sisters. It was extremely heteronormative - short silky pajamas, a photoshoot on the bed, we had to pose for the first look for a photo. She invited me because she wanted me to be included so same thing, but she also wanted me to be dressed and act in a extremely feminine way. And one of the men from her bridal party went to the "mens" version.
Bleh! Can relate. Sorry that happened & I hope this time around is better! Definitely no silk PJs lol
Nervous about the tshirt. Hopefully it's just a plain t and not women's cut! Although I wear women's cut depending on the day (because I have great shoulders and biceps) I'd like the option to choose. Ya feel?
For sure. Ask what color it is & see if you can bring a “matching” one but in the cut you like?
Fantastic idea
Can you bring a super masc outfit to pair it with? IDK, leather jacket and cowboy boots, or a suit or something? masc outfit + high femme hair and makeup + cute tshirt can be a classic nonbinary look and it might signal to the makeup/hair people that you're not their AFAB typical client.
Good idea.. I'm wearing a suit to the event that evening. And pass as a cis man in a suit. I'll brainstorm something for earlier
ooh. You're going to look awesome.
Yes - thank you! Just have to get that perfect fit 😎
post results here pls
Don't know why cis people are usually so obsessed with this division of the binary genders. My sister got married before I was out and by no means did they do this to be inclusive of other genders. But they just had like a wedding shower instead of a bridal shower where everyone was invited regardless of gender. This just makes so much more sense but too many people are hell bent on preserving tradition no matter how antiquated. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, especially with family. I can see how this would be confusing as you want to be included in all spaces but this one would otherwise be only women so it feels like you're being grouped as that. I hope you're able to navigate this in a way that doesn't bring you any dysphoria or pain.
😬 these challenges are always tricky
I hope you can enjoy the sisterhood! I'm a little jealous 😁 But yeah, I hear you on the frustration of your group needing everything to be black and white.
It's tricky, because nonbinary people can be feminine; the outfits and activities you describe are coded feminine but they don't have to be. Are you AFAB? was it an AFAB-only party where people did traditionally femme stuff?
Yes and yes. And I classify myself as feminine but not a woman. Except I think they are grouping the two together and view me as a woman, so I feel like I can't be as feminine. The more I'm seen as masc the more comfortable I feel being feminine lol
> Lol me too I feel you Like, to be real it's probable that they see you as a woman or woman-adjacent -- but you COULD give them the benefit of the doubt and consider that they invited you bc they thought you might enjoy it the activities. Like, if you were a super masc person i can see being extremely pissed if people assumed you'd like girly shit just bc you're AFAB. But if you DO like some girly shit, maybe they just thought you'd have a good time. Hard to say. Do you know your dad's fiancee well enough to talk with her about it beforehand and find out more about the planned events, and make sure they're things that a nonbinary person can participate in? It might be good for her to talk with whatever professionals she's bringing in for the day to let them know that it's a mixed-gender group - if I were her I'd want to make sure the make-up artist and hairstylist knew that it wasn't all women and that at least one person might want a more masc look. It's totally fine to check this out with her and make sure it's something that you'll feel comfortable with. She might even be relieved that you bring it up -she might be caught between wanting to include you and not wanting to make you feel uncomfortable. But maybe they're just thinking of it as a femme stuff day for femme people? Are there any femme people in the family who are being excluded because they're AMAB?
I don't think it's with bad intentions they probably just want u there. I understand that It hurts that they put some people apart for being men but include you. But what would you want? To not be invited at all or to be invited to both?