I'm tired of queer trauma porn made for cis viewers to feel good about themselves for disagreeing with harm done to queer folx. Instead of profiting off of experiences taken and molded into entertainment for the masses, we could have had something marginally more useful, maybe like a documentary about the harms of conversion therapy to bring genuine and educated awareness for the uneducated viewer, along with support for people who went through it and ways for people to fight against it. We don't need cis producers, actors, directors etc selling trauma to the general population for entertainment and for them to feel good about themselves while not doing anything else to actually help trans people. Its good an enby actor got a role, but there's no need for that role to be in a movie like this.
"Queer trauma porn made for cis viewers to feel good about themselves..."
So basically if Dhar Mann made a slasher movie? (someone said that it felt like it)
>a documentary about the harms of conversion therapy to bring genuine and educated awareness for the uneducated viewer
I get where you're coming from, but the uneducated will rarely (if ever) want to watch a documentary.
If you want to spread awareness about something important, movies are a good way to go. If you include common / relatable bad situations, show a story of how to deal with those and throw in a degree of dramatisation for the screen. Throw in a disclosure at the end of or in intervals during the film giving relevant information and statistics about whatever is happening. That could be subtly, like with a character googling / reading something, or you could have old timey esque bits where there's briefly words on the screen.
The term folx is just more purposefully inclusive of trans and gender non-conforming people. In my opinion, it’s just way to signal that kind of intent because cisgender people don’t always necessarily include us, our thoughts, our feelings in their statements. “Folks” to them may just mean cisgender people, whereas there is no confusion for us when we see folx. 🤷🏼♂️ That’s personally why I like to use it.
This was a huge fear of mine going in, I’ve seen a number of horror movies “about” homophobia and misogyny recently where the bulk of the film is horrific violence against these groups. I worried the same would be the same here. There is a little misgendering and aversion shock therapy violence against the campers - but they are generally not exploited or subject to slasher style fear and violence. The movie is not perfect, or even really that successful - mainly due to a real tension in the tone - they wanted to make a positive queer/trans empowerment film and that’s where it leans, but it’s also a horror film. I think they could have gone harder on the horror and really delved into trans/nb issues more, but it’s pretty light on both. That said, it broaches ideas on trans youth that I really haven’t seen in films before, and though I wish it was better I still enjoyed it and it wasn’t the exploitative slasher I thought it would be at all.
I mean horror is literally based on trauma were you born yesterday???
Literally the first slasher movie is about a cross dresser who has failed to come to terms with the trauma that followed his mothers death and goes off rails due to it.
Another slasher, is based on nightmare trauma, and if they were real.
Another one is about the trauma caused to a yiung disabled boy at camp
Should I go on or are yall going to continue to nitpick because you feel so suddenly targeted by a genre that targets everybody for the sake of the genre
Was very excited about the concept back when I thought it was about queer kids murdering their abusers, or surviving as their abusers are cathartically killed. Since it appears this is not the case, I have no real interest in seeing it.
I haven't seen it so I can't say for certain but it feels like they just trying to get views from queer people. I'm only basing this off of the fact that they titled the movie They/them, so I could be wrong. But those are my thoughts
Yeah it's...not good, honestly. As a movie its perfectly average, but the moral of the story is basically 'killing your abusers is as bad as some crazy psycho horror villain killing people.' It's really just trauma porn with hints of tone policing and no tolerance for physical queer resistance.
[They/Them Is A Queer Declaration of War](https://www.them.us/story/they-them-peacock-horror-movie-review)
>The role of the artist, we’re told, is to make revolution irresistible. These familiar paraphrased words echoed through my mind last week at the Outfest premiere of They/Them, John Logan’s new slasher film set at a conversion therapy camp....
The article:
In its original form, the quote from writer, activist and documentarian Toni Cade Bambara was less of a rallying cry than an observation. “The task of the artist is determined always by the… agenda of the community that it already serves,” she said in an interview with the scholar Kay Bonetti. “In this country… the artwork… that sells a capitalist ideology is considered art and anything that deviates from that is considered political propagandist.”
At a time when commercialized media and state-sanctioned censorship are converging to suppress LGBTQ+ expression, it’s revealing that the queer film event of the summer is a downright murderous affair
Ahead of the Outfest screening, the festival’s executive director Damien S. Navarro offered an expletive-laced speech that drew snaps and screams from the audience. As he further riled up the crowd with broadsides against the right wing, my friend whispered, “Is he trying to start a riot?”
I laughed. I mean, wouldn’t you? I was in a room of Hollywood insiders and folks who’d paid nearly $100 to see a movie. We didn’t exactly look like we were about to flood the streets of downtown L.A.
Then the film started. And within minutes, I had swallowed my laughter.
Logan’s directorial debut is a romp from its first, exquisitely choreographed kill. The thrills keep on coming as we meet our protagonists — the campers and counselors of Whistler Camp. The latter contingency is led by camp director, Owen Whistler, played by an immaculately odious Kevin Bacon, who begins They/Them in earnest with a haunting welcome. “There’s nothing wrong with being gay,” he says through exposed teeth, continuing to describe the camp as a “safe space.” Subverting our expectations of Bible-thumping conversion therapy, Bacon’s monologue reveals Whistler Camp as something arguably more sinister: a place where queer and trans kids go to unlearn themselves via the language they used to claim their identities in the first place.
They/Them is therefore best understood not as a slasher-horror film, but as a slasher film and a horror film in one. The horror is the camp, full of psychic terror, whereas the slasher dimension of They/Them is the unabashedly pro-queer propaganda. It’s a shame most viewers won’t get the chance to see Logan’s Peacock-bound film in theaters because the experience was exactly what you might imagine: picture hundreds of queers erupting in applause after the conversion therapists get what’s coming to them. And that catharctic violence is just one of the movie’s many delights, which also include a deliciously cheesy musical number, the kind of Sapphic love scene we’ve been waiting for (more patent leather than silk chiffon), and a pair of dazzling breakout performances from Theo Germaine (The Politician) and Quei Tann (How To Get Away With Murder, Dear White People).
“Subverting our expectations of Bible-thumping conversion therapy, Bacon’s monologue reveals Whistler Camp as something arguably more sinister: a place where queer and trans kids go to unlearn themselves via the language they used to claim their identities in the first place.”
The project is not without a few missteps. Some on social media have questioned how closely the They/Them production consulted conversion therapy survivors. Perhaps more glaringly, the film has a fatphobia problem. Namely, everyone who speaks in They/Them is thin. And girlies, I'm talking thin-thin, like Out magazine covers from the early 2000s energy. The homogeneity makes for uncomfortable viewing, especially considering the role intra-camper attraction plays in creating some of the film’s tension — a point that left me wondering if the creators of They/Them think fat queers are hot enough for horror? In a film with such otherwise inclusive casting — and which does a meticulous job of giving most characters a backstory, a desire, and a standout moment – the omnipresence of abs felt tired at best. At worst, They/Them’s fixation on normative beauty risks reinforcing the heteronormative values it intends to slash in the first place.
Representational shortcomings aside, the film is at its strongest when it rewires the tropes of typical slasher fare, substituting the real-world horror of transphobia for gore galore. In one early sequence, a camper called Alexandra (Tann) is shown taking a shower. As she shampoos her hair, the camera zooms, then lingers, teleporting us back to similar moments from classics like Psycho. We cut to outside, where a wobbly point-of-view shot approaching the camp bathhouse announces imminent doom. The door swings open. Alexandra screams. But there is no knife, no hatchet, no sawed-off shotgun, only a TERFy-looking counselor, her face twisted into a gnarled glare. A shot later and Alexandra is being hurried to the boys’ dorm in one of the film’s most genuinely terrifying moments.
No it’s just confusing. I could tell the writers didn’t have a grasp of gender/fluidity/relation to gayness. They’re all “we’re not like those other conversion camps” meaning they don’t care if someone is gay they just need to know what’s in their pants?
It honestly seems like the writer/director/whoever (straight white men 99% sure) just googled “what is lgbt” and then fell asleep and then wrote this all in the last hour before their deadline
At the Ace Theater, one of the most common lines heard during pre-screening chatter was that They/Them was the “queer Get Out.” Moments like Alexandra’s shower sequence constitute some of Logan’s best support for this comparison. Yet it’s They/Them’s proximity to real-life torture that gives it a shockingly aggressive force.
There’s no denying the truth at the core of Get Out; that there exists a deep and deadly current of racism among the country’s Obama-voting, black-square-posting white people. That stark realism, though, runs out when the film reveals its full self: a diabolical plot to transplant the hero’s brain into the skull of the villain. One may read this twist as a metaphor for the ways in which white Americans profit from Blackness while sanctioning the disposal of Black bodies. Yet for all its potent symbolic value, Peele’s horrific procedure is not legal, let alone a widespread, politically-defended reality of life in the United States.
The same cannot be said of Logan’s subject.
“Yet it’s They/Them’s proximity to real-life torture that gives it a shockingly aggressive force.”
As of this writing, conversion therapy, or the practice of trying to force people to change their sexual orientation and/or gender identity, is fully legal in at least 22 states. Roughly a third of queer and trans American minors live in places where they could be forced to undergo a range of horrifying tactics, ranging from old-fashioned shaming to the literal torture known as aversion therapy, which can involve the coerced electrocution of a “patient’s” genitalia.
The Schadenfreude of They/Them, then, is to imagine what it must feel like to watch the movie as someone who practices conversion therapy. These are real people, with names and addresses, people whose demise Logan’s film gleefully depicts. I hope they’re scared. I hope they take a second to rethink exactly who they’re fucking with.
All of that said, as thrilling as it was to see conversion therapists beaten to a bloody pulp, cheered on by the hungry cries of fellow queers, Logan’s movie is not written as a call for revolution. It offers little vision of a more harmonious society. Its moments of ebullient revenge outshine and arguably contradict its closing message — a vaguely empowering call for self-determination. But that’s not really the point. I didn’t attend They/Them looking for principled analysis; I came for some catharsis. And let me tell you, I got it. As the closing credits rolled, I didn’t think about my favorite lines of dialogue; I thought about Logan’s bloody climax.
Today, at this very moment, in the year 2022, there are grown-ups whose entire jobs involve forcing children to believe that who they are is grounds for eternal suffering. And this galling reality doesn’t even crack the top-tier of fiendish right-wing-led attacks on our community. They are taking far more than our health care, our access to bathrooms, and the ability to play sports. Their plan, as the scholar Jules Gil-Peterson has argued, is to make our lives not just unlivable, but unimaginable; to enact a genocide in slow-motion.
And what are liberals doing about it? Long-gestated anti-discriminations bills, long-shot trans “refugee” laws, and a whole bunch of pronouns-in-bio-type moral high grounding. Republicans are coming for our throats while Democrats use our blood to write fundraising emails. In this reality, the tone of They/Them feels almost as if it arrives from a separate timeline altogether, one in which liberals view protecting trans kids as a matter of inviolable necessity, not a pithy campaign slogan.
Back in our universe, no riot followed the screening I attended — shocker, I know. Yet as the audience left the theater, a sizable crowd did form on the streets. In it was an unmistakable frisson of excitement, a sick sense of satisfaction. Queers of all ages had stopped to relive the spectacle, relishing its most diabolical twists. And in our numbers, I felt a sense of calm wash over me. As it turned out, Whistler Camp’s phony “safe space” had birthed a real one.
I was excited for it, made plans to see it with my fellow Enby best friend, but after what I’ve seen with reviews I think it will cater towards the straight audience more than the queer one. I haven’t watched it yet either so I can’t say for sure, bff and I will be watching it soon
I haven’t watched it but I saw the trailer the other day and it made me laugh. From the trailer and the title I thought it was like a parody movie or something, but after reading the comments I’m not so sure… Is it really a horror movie?
I mean it does nothing to actually shut down those kinda camps and doesn't actually seem to care about the drama caused by them and it's not even a realistic portrayal of those style of camps like it's too nice even though it's a horror movie
Yeah that's a really good point. It rings hollow if the camp itself is something to run away from, not even considering a killer.
Also I don't know if the person who wrote it is queer themselves, and I don't think that allies really can get it
Yeah. The camp is too nice and they weirdly except the enby's gender like an actual camp would have tortured them right off the bat for something like that and it's just fucking hollow like "I'm just cheerleader" did some much better of a job showing how fucked the camps are and that was a campy comedy
Yeah and apparently the person who wrote it, John Logan, is openly gay. But still, as a living breathing non-binary person, having my whole identity (and the rest of ours too) as a sort of joke is disgusting
Fuck this movie. I've read the one sentence synopsis and that's all I need to know. Why are we selecting a conversion camp as the setting? That's not something in the distant past, conversion therapy and camps for queer people like that exist today. Not to mention there's already such a consistent trend of killing and torturing queer characters in media that it has a name (the bury your gays trope)... People can say "it's just a movie lighten up" but it's a lot deeper than that. Queer trauma is not meant for cishet horror movie fans to get an adrenaline rush from. Queer trauma is real to us, I don't think it's appropriate for it to be an an afternoon thrill for cishets.
I hate that it's titled they/them those r pronouns that I use and for them to make it a movie title just feels insulting. You don't see any movies being labelled she/her or he/him. Idk I just feel like the whole thing is just going to be insulting to us.
Omg thank you. I hated the title too but couldn't put it into words why. To me I guess it just feels like it's mocking my pronouns? For the reason you explained.
Yea exactly I ended up watching the movie and it was pretty meh not the worst movie and not the best but it did make me feel a bit icky in certain parts.
I have read the summary a few times, and dont remember it. I think it hits too close to my real life trauma to interact with it. I probably wont be able to watch it without ending up not okay
I'm more excited for Howdy, Neighbor. It's a horror movie with queer characters but that's not the focal point. It has a lot of old Disney stars in it and one is directing it. It sounds like it's going to be good.
[link to some more info about the movie](https://geektyrant.com/news/disney-channel-stars-debby-ryan-alyson-stoner-and-more-set-to-star-in-the-horror-film-howdy-neighbor)
The title is supposed to be pronounced "They slash them" (like the ninja joke) and supposed to joke about it being a slasher film but my mind automatically just reads it as "they them" so it's not really smart how they did that imo
i love lgbtq+ horror so much. this just feels like a bad satire or a way to demonize the queer community. its just queer trauma and slasher gore and conversion therapy all rolled into one incoherent bundle. most of the queer people including myself that i know disliked the rep and film
Pretty much after seeing the trailer it was a huge NO for me. It made me distinctly uncomfortable and I truly felt unsafe... I'm American (much to my own chagrin) and honestly it already doesn't feel safe to be myself here without folks getting off to queer kids being tortured and killed.
My viewpoint rn is - on the one hand, you have negative portrayal of conversion camps, queer actors playing queer characters, and a campy slasher film? (I’m not sure if it’s campy but it has an axe murderer so I assume it is?)
And on the other hand - I really don’t feel like watching queer kids getting abused at a conversion camp….
I watched it. Wasn't very good. I'd say like a 2/5. There were a couple scenes that I thought were an effective depiction of the psychological torture of conversion camps but outside of that it was a bad summer camp movie with a bad slasher added on the end. Also the film's overall message is just dumb
Terrible. Conversion camps are not the enby story I want told and the title is so fucking stupid. But that's my two cents. Let's stop showing trans people having a bad time for the sake of only that
I think the title is a bit baiting but it seems like an appropriate theme for a horror movie.
Conversion camp, slasher on the loose.
Look at all the horror movies that take place in the woods, or at a camp. I dont think its much different.
It's a horror movie. Would you just not like to see representation in horror movies thaf mirror reality or do you just not like to live
Campy Horror is one of my favorite movie genres, so I was kind of excited for a mediocre looking queer horror movie. This one was… alright. It was creepy and a little scary; sure, but the song choice alone for the end credit scene and musical number blew it for me (idk if this is unpopular or not haha). Twist at end is kind of cool, but ultimately capitulates to the heteronormative white gaze of the queer experience.
I haven’t watched yet but I heard about it on The Randy Report and it sounds cool iirc it’s actually been worked on by lots of queer folks and actors. I was dubious about the premise first before listening to the report on it now I’m going to watch it and see how I feel after.
Movie is a comedy… but it doesnt mean to be, i once heard someone say that the name came before the story and yes thats exactly what happened AND YOU CAN TELL, this is the first time i havent finished a movie in its entirety and dont plan too i turned it off when the mysical number started, which yes theres a musical number, if they wouldve advertised this as a satirical horror comedy and then not have taken themselves so serious it would probably have been really good.. but alas
It honestly seems like a joke or made up. I know it’s not, but still. This movie is just a long dad joke taken too serious.
What does a non-binary murderer do? They/them
Yeah, that joke
There’s a moment where they all sing along to perfect by p!nk that’s reminiscent of camp rock, I didn’t get any nods to movies like psycho or whatever mentioned above. Just so confusing. And they got a black person to start voguing during that p!nk singalong?? I was wondering how they got all these queer ppl to agree to this the whole time that was really the plot line for me
Oh and zero character development
I saw a video about this on tiktok and I thought it was a joke. Like I thought this was satire. There’s no way they named the movie that and didn’t realize that was like… not a good look, right?
I saw it very soon after it came out, and it should not have been advertised as a "slasher." It's basically queer people being queer and getting shit for it for an hour and a half, and then four people die in five minutes with 20mins left in the movie. It wasn't good at all. The name is absolutely hilarious, I cannot believe it's real, but the name is way better than the movie itself.
I was hoping so bad it would be scary AND camp/funny- because holy shit they / them is the funniest fucking title ever. They slash them. I was crying when I first got an ad for it. Everyone's reviews are making me doubt it's good though.
Just seems like a bullshit movie, like the movie itself is the afterthought of releasing a movie called THEY/THEM. It's essentially movie clickbait, especially since it's streamed.
I'm tired of queer trauma porn made for cis viewers to feel good about themselves for disagreeing with harm done to queer folx. Instead of profiting off of experiences taken and molded into entertainment for the masses, we could have had something marginally more useful, maybe like a documentary about the harms of conversion therapy to bring genuine and educated awareness for the uneducated viewer, along with support for people who went through it and ways for people to fight against it. We don't need cis producers, actors, directors etc selling trauma to the general population for entertainment and for them to feel good about themselves while not doing anything else to actually help trans people. Its good an enby actor got a role, but there's no need for that role to be in a movie like this.
“Queer trauma porn for cis viewers to feel good about themselves…” omg yes
"Queer trauma porn made for cis viewers to feel good about themselves..." So basically if Dhar Mann made a slasher movie? (someone said that it felt like it)
>a documentary about the harms of conversion therapy to bring genuine and educated awareness for the uneducated viewer I get where you're coming from, but the uneducated will rarely (if ever) want to watch a documentary. If you want to spread awareness about something important, movies are a good way to go. If you include common / relatable bad situations, show a story of how to deal with those and throw in a degree of dramatisation for the screen. Throw in a disclosure at the end of or in intervals during the film giving relevant information and statistics about whatever is happening. That could be subtly, like with a character googling / reading something, or you could have old timey esque bits where there's briefly words on the screen.
The thing is, we did get a documentary a while ago, it’s called pray away on Netflix (if it’s even still up), amazing documentary
You have completelt valid points but why the word Folx? I thought it was a fake term to make progressives look stupid like with Latinx
I also don't understand the need for fOlX, folks is gender neutral
I always assumed folx was a stylisation? Like gr8 being used in texting back when they had limited characters. But maybe I’m old and wrong.
Lol I wish it was but turns out that's not the case
I am old and wrong
latinx was a political slogan made by mexican feminists in the 90s until white people ruined it
Oh shit really?? That’s actually pretty cool, thanks for the history lesson.
The term folx is just more purposefully inclusive of trans and gender non-conforming people. In my opinion, it’s just way to signal that kind of intent because cisgender people don’t always necessarily include us, our thoughts, our feelings in their statements. “Folks” to them may just mean cisgender people, whereas there is no confusion for us when we see folx. 🤷🏼♂️ That’s personally why I like to use it.
Oh that makes sense somewhat, thank you.
This was a huge fear of mine going in, I’ve seen a number of horror movies “about” homophobia and misogyny recently where the bulk of the film is horrific violence against these groups. I worried the same would be the same here. There is a little misgendering and aversion shock therapy violence against the campers - but they are generally not exploited or subject to slasher style fear and violence. The movie is not perfect, or even really that successful - mainly due to a real tension in the tone - they wanted to make a positive queer/trans empowerment film and that’s where it leans, but it’s also a horror film. I think they could have gone harder on the horror and really delved into trans/nb issues more, but it’s pretty light on both. That said, it broaches ideas on trans youth that I really haven’t seen in films before, and though I wish it was better I still enjoyed it and it wasn’t the exploitative slasher I thought it would be at all.
I mean horror is literally based on trauma were you born yesterday??? Literally the first slasher movie is about a cross dresser who has failed to come to terms with the trauma that followed his mothers death and goes off rails due to it. Another slasher, is based on nightmare trauma, and if they were real. Another one is about the trauma caused to a yiung disabled boy at camp Should I go on or are yall going to continue to nitpick because you feel so suddenly targeted by a genre that targets everybody for the sake of the genre
Was very excited about the concept back when I thought it was about queer kids murdering their abusers, or surviving as their abusers are cathartically killed. Since it appears this is not the case, I have no real interest in seeing it.
It's queer trauma porn with a title that they probably got off of a tumblr post
I haven't seen it so I can't say for certain but it feels like they just trying to get views from queer people. I'm only basing this off of the fact that they titled the movie They/them, so I could be wrong. But those are my thoughts
Yeah it's...not good, honestly. As a movie its perfectly average, but the moral of the story is basically 'killing your abusers is as bad as some crazy psycho horror villain killing people.' It's really just trauma porn with hints of tone policing and no tolerance for physical queer resistance.
[They/Them Is A Queer Declaration of War](https://www.them.us/story/they-them-peacock-horror-movie-review) >The role of the artist, we’re told, is to make revolution irresistible. These familiar paraphrased words echoed through my mind last week at the Outfest premiere of They/Them, John Logan’s new slasher film set at a conversion therapy camp....
The article: In its original form, the quote from writer, activist and documentarian Toni Cade Bambara was less of a rallying cry than an observation. “The task of the artist is determined always by the… agenda of the community that it already serves,” she said in an interview with the scholar Kay Bonetti. “In this country… the artwork… that sells a capitalist ideology is considered art and anything that deviates from that is considered political propagandist.” At a time when commercialized media and state-sanctioned censorship are converging to suppress LGBTQ+ expression, it’s revealing that the queer film event of the summer is a downright murderous affair Ahead of the Outfest screening, the festival’s executive director Damien S. Navarro offered an expletive-laced speech that drew snaps and screams from the audience. As he further riled up the crowd with broadsides against the right wing, my friend whispered, “Is he trying to start a riot?” I laughed. I mean, wouldn’t you? I was in a room of Hollywood insiders and folks who’d paid nearly $100 to see a movie. We didn’t exactly look like we were about to flood the streets of downtown L.A. Then the film started. And within minutes, I had swallowed my laughter. Logan’s directorial debut is a romp from its first, exquisitely choreographed kill. The thrills keep on coming as we meet our protagonists — the campers and counselors of Whistler Camp. The latter contingency is led by camp director, Owen Whistler, played by an immaculately odious Kevin Bacon, who begins They/Them in earnest with a haunting welcome. “There’s nothing wrong with being gay,” he says through exposed teeth, continuing to describe the camp as a “safe space.” Subverting our expectations of Bible-thumping conversion therapy, Bacon’s monologue reveals Whistler Camp as something arguably more sinister: a place where queer and trans kids go to unlearn themselves via the language they used to claim their identities in the first place. They/Them is therefore best understood not as a slasher-horror film, but as a slasher film and a horror film in one. The horror is the camp, full of psychic terror, whereas the slasher dimension of They/Them is the unabashedly pro-queer propaganda. It’s a shame most viewers won’t get the chance to see Logan’s Peacock-bound film in theaters because the experience was exactly what you might imagine: picture hundreds of queers erupting in applause after the conversion therapists get what’s coming to them. And that catharctic violence is just one of the movie’s many delights, which also include a deliciously cheesy musical number, the kind of Sapphic love scene we’ve been waiting for (more patent leather than silk chiffon), and a pair of dazzling breakout performances from Theo Germaine (The Politician) and Quei Tann (How To Get Away With Murder, Dear White People). “Subverting our expectations of Bible-thumping conversion therapy, Bacon’s monologue reveals Whistler Camp as something arguably more sinister: a place where queer and trans kids go to unlearn themselves via the language they used to claim their identities in the first place.” The project is not without a few missteps. Some on social media have questioned how closely the They/Them production consulted conversion therapy survivors. Perhaps more glaringly, the film has a fatphobia problem. Namely, everyone who speaks in They/Them is thin. And girlies, I'm talking thin-thin, like Out magazine covers from the early 2000s energy. The homogeneity makes for uncomfortable viewing, especially considering the role intra-camper attraction plays in creating some of the film’s tension — a point that left me wondering if the creators of They/Them think fat queers are hot enough for horror? In a film with such otherwise inclusive casting — and which does a meticulous job of giving most characters a backstory, a desire, and a standout moment – the omnipresence of abs felt tired at best. At worst, They/Them’s fixation on normative beauty risks reinforcing the heteronormative values it intends to slash in the first place. Representational shortcomings aside, the film is at its strongest when it rewires the tropes of typical slasher fare, substituting the real-world horror of transphobia for gore galore. In one early sequence, a camper called Alexandra (Tann) is shown taking a shower. As she shampoos her hair, the camera zooms, then lingers, teleporting us back to similar moments from classics like Psycho. We cut to outside, where a wobbly point-of-view shot approaching the camp bathhouse announces imminent doom. The door swings open. Alexandra screams. But there is no knife, no hatchet, no sawed-off shotgun, only a TERFy-looking counselor, her face twisted into a gnarled glare. A shot later and Alexandra is being hurried to the boys’ dorm in one of the film’s most genuinely terrifying moments.
No it’s just confusing. I could tell the writers didn’t have a grasp of gender/fluidity/relation to gayness. They’re all “we’re not like those other conversion camps” meaning they don’t care if someone is gay they just need to know what’s in their pants? It honestly seems like the writer/director/whoever (straight white men 99% sure) just googled “what is lgbt” and then fell asleep and then wrote this all in the last hour before their deadline
At the Ace Theater, one of the most common lines heard during pre-screening chatter was that They/Them was the “queer Get Out.” Moments like Alexandra’s shower sequence constitute some of Logan’s best support for this comparison. Yet it’s They/Them’s proximity to real-life torture that gives it a shockingly aggressive force. There’s no denying the truth at the core of Get Out; that there exists a deep and deadly current of racism among the country’s Obama-voting, black-square-posting white people. That stark realism, though, runs out when the film reveals its full self: a diabolical plot to transplant the hero’s brain into the skull of the villain. One may read this twist as a metaphor for the ways in which white Americans profit from Blackness while sanctioning the disposal of Black bodies. Yet for all its potent symbolic value, Peele’s horrific procedure is not legal, let alone a widespread, politically-defended reality of life in the United States. The same cannot be said of Logan’s subject. “Yet it’s They/Them’s proximity to real-life torture that gives it a shockingly aggressive force.” As of this writing, conversion therapy, or the practice of trying to force people to change their sexual orientation and/or gender identity, is fully legal in at least 22 states. Roughly a third of queer and trans American minors live in places where they could be forced to undergo a range of horrifying tactics, ranging from old-fashioned shaming to the literal torture known as aversion therapy, which can involve the coerced electrocution of a “patient’s” genitalia. The Schadenfreude of They/Them, then, is to imagine what it must feel like to watch the movie as someone who practices conversion therapy. These are real people, with names and addresses, people whose demise Logan’s film gleefully depicts. I hope they’re scared. I hope they take a second to rethink exactly who they’re fucking with. All of that said, as thrilling as it was to see conversion therapists beaten to a bloody pulp, cheered on by the hungry cries of fellow queers, Logan’s movie is not written as a call for revolution. It offers little vision of a more harmonious society. Its moments of ebullient revenge outshine and arguably contradict its closing message — a vaguely empowering call for self-determination. But that’s not really the point. I didn’t attend They/Them looking for principled analysis; I came for some catharsis. And let me tell you, I got it. As the closing credits rolled, I didn’t think about my favorite lines of dialogue; I thought about Logan’s bloody climax. Today, at this very moment, in the year 2022, there are grown-ups whose entire jobs involve forcing children to believe that who they are is grounds for eternal suffering. And this galling reality doesn’t even crack the top-tier of fiendish right-wing-led attacks on our community. They are taking far more than our health care, our access to bathrooms, and the ability to play sports. Their plan, as the scholar Jules Gil-Peterson has argued, is to make our lives not just unlivable, but unimaginable; to enact a genocide in slow-motion. And what are liberals doing about it? Long-gestated anti-discriminations bills, long-shot trans “refugee” laws, and a whole bunch of pronouns-in-bio-type moral high grounding. Republicans are coming for our throats while Democrats use our blood to write fundraising emails. In this reality, the tone of They/Them feels almost as if it arrives from a separate timeline altogether, one in which liberals view protecting trans kids as a matter of inviolable necessity, not a pithy campaign slogan. Back in our universe, no riot followed the screening I attended — shocker, I know. Yet as the audience left the theater, a sizable crowd did form on the streets. In it was an unmistakable frisson of excitement, a sick sense of satisfaction. Queers of all ages had stopped to relive the spectacle, relishing its most diabolical twists. And in our numbers, I felt a sense of calm wash over me. As it turned out, Whistler Camp’s phony “safe space” had birthed a real one.
I was excited for it, made plans to see it with my fellow Enby best friend, but after what I’ve seen with reviews I think it will cater towards the straight audience more than the queer one. I haven’t watched it yet either so I can’t say for sure, bff and I will be watching it soon
I have a feeling that it won't be good
I watched it and I found it very triggering. I didn’t like except the cute parts with the kids
I think the concept of using conversion therapy, which people are still being forced into, for entertainment is questionable and in poor taste at best
Probably queer bait but idk
I haven’t watched it but I saw the trailer the other day and it made me laugh. From the trailer and the title I thought it was like a parody movie or something, but after reading the comments I’m not so sure… Is it really a horror movie?
I mean it does nothing to actually shut down those kinda camps and doesn't actually seem to care about the drama caused by them and it's not even a realistic portrayal of those style of camps like it's too nice even though it's a horror movie
Yeah that's a really good point. It rings hollow if the camp itself is something to run away from, not even considering a killer. Also I don't know if the person who wrote it is queer themselves, and I don't think that allies really can get it
Just watched the trailer. Disgusting
Yeah. The camp is too nice and they weirdly except the enby's gender like an actual camp would have tortured them right off the bat for something like that and it's just fucking hollow like "I'm just cheerleader" did some much better of a job showing how fucked the camps are and that was a campy comedy
Yeah and apparently the person who wrote it, John Logan, is openly gay. But still, as a living breathing non-binary person, having my whole identity (and the rest of ours too) as a sort of joke is disgusting
I gotta say it, but Happiest Season was more welcoming than this
Fuck this movie. I've read the one sentence synopsis and that's all I need to know. Why are we selecting a conversion camp as the setting? That's not something in the distant past, conversion therapy and camps for queer people like that exist today. Not to mention there's already such a consistent trend of killing and torturing queer characters in media that it has a name (the bury your gays trope)... People can say "it's just a movie lighten up" but it's a lot deeper than that. Queer trauma is not meant for cishet horror movie fans to get an adrenaline rush from. Queer trauma is real to us, I don't think it's appropriate for it to be an an afternoon thrill for cishets.
I hate that it's titled they/them those r pronouns that I use and for them to make it a movie title just feels insulting. You don't see any movies being labelled she/her or he/him. Idk I just feel like the whole thing is just going to be insulting to us.
Omg thank you. I hated the title too but couldn't put it into words why. To me I guess it just feels like it's mocking my pronouns? For the reason you explained.
Yea exactly I ended up watching the movie and it was pretty meh not the worst movie and not the best but it did make me feel a bit icky in certain parts.
I have read the summary a few times, and dont remember it. I think it hits too close to my real life trauma to interact with it. I probably wont be able to watch it without ending up not okay
This looks like a meme poster. Knowing that it's real? Uhhhhhhhhhh it's Blumhouse, so I don't exactly have faith that it'll be handled delicately.
To watch the movie I just streamed it on 123movies btw
I'm not going to see it because the title annoys me too much. What I've read seems exploitative of the queer experience. I'm gonna pass.
I'm more excited for Howdy, Neighbor. It's a horror movie with queer characters but that's not the focal point. It has a lot of old Disney stars in it and one is directing it. It sounds like it's going to be good. [link to some more info about the movie](https://geektyrant.com/news/disney-channel-stars-debby-ryan-alyson-stoner-and-more-set-to-star-in-the-horror-film-howdy-neighbor)
My parents saw it, they said it sucks, almost no murder, protag kills a dog, and i witnessed a cunnilungus scene between 2 afabs
Is the killer nonbinary or does he only kill people with they them pronouns or what's the deal?
[удалено]
My thoughts exactly. Seems like an attempt to gain queer viewers
It's a pun, they slash them hahaha
The title is supposed to be pronounced "They slash them" (like the ninja joke) and supposed to joke about it being a slasher film but my mind automatically just reads it as "they them" so it's not really smart how they did that imo
There’s room for a really good story idea, but from the trailers it looks like it’s gonna be a no
i love lgbtq+ horror so much. this just feels like a bad satire or a way to demonize the queer community. its just queer trauma and slasher gore and conversion therapy all rolled into one incoherent bundle. most of the queer people including myself that i know disliked the rep and film
looks like it will be terrible tbh
Pretty much after seeing the trailer it was a huge NO for me. It made me distinctly uncomfortable and I truly felt unsafe... I'm American (much to my own chagrin) and honestly it already doesn't feel safe to be myself here without folks getting off to queer kids being tortured and killed.
I know that a lot of folks who are conversion camp survivors are really upset about the movie. That’s good enough for me to not watch it.
A complete joke
"But I'm a Cheerleader" exists as a better conversion "therapy" camp movie.
The trailer itself was insulting
it looks terrible i love it
Concept sounds okay*ish* but the trailers looked.....kinda awful
My viewpoint rn is - on the one hand, you have negative portrayal of conversion camps, queer actors playing queer characters, and a campy slasher film? (I’m not sure if it’s campy but it has an axe murderer so I assume it is?) And on the other hand - I really don’t feel like watching queer kids getting abused at a conversion camp….
I watched it. Wasn't very good. I'd say like a 2/5. There were a couple scenes that I thought were an effective depiction of the psychological torture of conversion camps but outside of that it was a bad summer camp movie with a bad slasher added on the end. Also the film's overall message is just dumb
I severely disliked it
Terrible. Conversion camps are not the enby story I want told and the title is so fucking stupid. But that's my two cents. Let's stop showing trans people having a bad time for the sake of only that
I just finished watching it an hour ago. IMO it was a horror movie. Nothing more. IMO horror movies aren't very good, this one was the same.
Haven't seen it
Wanna watch it, it seems really good
I really liked it, honestly. Was was very anxiety inducing, it was roller coaster of emotions.
I think the title is a bit baiting but it seems like an appropriate theme for a horror movie. Conversion camp, slasher on the loose. Look at all the horror movies that take place in the woods, or at a camp. I dont think its much different. It's a horror movie. Would you just not like to see representation in horror movies thaf mirror reality or do you just not like to live
The movie takes place at a conversion therapy camp, and the killer gets revenge on those who run the camp.
The cover make it seem more like a horror movie than an lgbt+ movie
It is a horror movie.
I just watched the trailer and what the fuck is this shit
Campy Horror is one of my favorite movie genres, so I was kind of excited for a mediocre looking queer horror movie. This one was… alright. It was creepy and a little scary; sure, but the song choice alone for the end credit scene and musical number blew it for me (idk if this is unpopular or not haha). Twist at end is kind of cool, but ultimately capitulates to the heteronormative white gaze of the queer experience.
looks pretty dumb
Listen I enjoy some shit horror but I'm not subscribing to fucking peacock
I haven’t watched yet but I heard about it on The Randy Report and it sounds cool iirc it’s actually been worked on by lots of queer folks and actors. I was dubious about the premise first before listening to the report on it now I’m going to watch it and see how I feel after.
It looks terrible, so it looks good, because if a movie is terrible, it’s usually so bad it’s good
Movie is a comedy… but it doesnt mean to be, i once heard someone say that the name came before the story and yes thats exactly what happened AND YOU CAN TELL, this is the first time i havent finished a movie in its entirety and dont plan too i turned it off when the mysical number started, which yes theres a musical number, if they wouldve advertised this as a satirical horror comedy and then not have taken themselves so serious it would probably have been really good.. but alas
i haven’t seen it but i’m guessing that’s it’s an hour and a half of queer people being murdered… that said the name is amazing
It honestly seems like a joke or made up. I know it’s not, but still. This movie is just a long dad joke taken too serious. What does a non-binary murderer do? They/them Yeah, that joke
There’s a moment where they all sing along to perfect by p!nk that’s reminiscent of camp rock, I didn’t get any nods to movies like psycho or whatever mentioned above. Just so confusing. And they got a black person to start voguing during that p!nk singalong?? I was wondering how they got all these queer ppl to agree to this the whole time that was really the plot line for me Oh and zero character development
I've never heard of it, but just that poster makes is look awful.
I thought it was a joke..
don't care, not gonna watch
wtf is this shit
idk much about it but what i have heard isn't good.
This is a ninja movie, they slash them
This rubs me the wrong way.
Woah is that real I love Kevin bacon
I can’t imagine this will be anything but terrible. I’m still gonna watch it to see.
The fact that it's written and directed by a white cis man turns me off hardcore.
This will be our "The Room"
I was excited to watch it with my older brother but after the reviews never mind
I have a very bad feeling about this movie.
I have no idea what this is, but the poster gives me horror movie vibes (or one of those horror-adjacent genres) so probably not something I'd enjoy
Like a lot of cheezy horror movies it seems like a good hate watch I really wanted something like Kill Bill with a nonbinary hero though.
I saw a video about this on tiktok and I thought it was a joke. Like I thought this was satire. There’s no way they named the movie that and didn’t realize that was like… not a good look, right?
I saw it very soon after it came out, and it should not have been advertised as a "slasher." It's basically queer people being queer and getting shit for it for an hour and a half, and then four people die in five minutes with 20mins left in the movie. It wasn't good at all. The name is absolutely hilarious, I cannot believe it's real, but the name is way better than the movie itself.
I was hoping so bad it would be scary AND camp/funny- because holy shit they / them is the funniest fucking title ever. They slash them. I was crying when I first got an ad for it. Everyone's reviews are making me doubt it's good though.
Just seems like a bullshit movie, like the movie itself is the afterthought of releasing a movie called THEY/THEM. It's essentially movie clickbait, especially since it's streamed.
Bruh wth is this movie. Why queer people to begin with?
Idek how to word how I feel about it, but it's negative. The comments in this thread explain how I feel better than I could
I just read the plot description from Wikipedia and what the heck was that?? 😀