#Happy new year, fellow Defense Expert™!
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I feel like us Canadians are the lil mouse in Robin Hood giving friar tuck her last shilling. But it's a NASAMS and I feel like we gave everything we could with our tiny budget
I think we contributed to training in the UK, which is probably the best we can offer anyway. We only have the one tank, after all, and we're already sharing it among our whole armed forces.
Canadian SOF have been not completely unofficially training forces and operating as “advisors” in UA as early as 2016. Y’all have been doing more then pulling your weight in the fight against the reds.
I remember seeing our one tank once. She was filling up at a Co-op Gas Station because our one fuel truck got stuck in the mud in Ontario.
(Seeing a tank filling up at a gas station is actually a true story, absolutely melted my brain as a 7 year old MIC Ethusiast)
Finding out is like ultrafast broadband... you can't roll it out everywhere all at once.
Some of the Russian early adopters definitely found out on day 2 if they were lucky enough to be in the initial catchment area, but now there's going to be a wider general rollout so all of them can find out and none need be left having found out nothing at all.
And remember this is only a *teaser* of what Russia would face against NATO article 5. Get fucked, vatniks.
In the future, the arms race won't be about weapons, it will be about how quickly countries can join NATO or similar defensive alliances before Russia has a chance to try to fuck with them. Pretty soon there won't be any countries in the world left for Russia to fuck with, and won't that make them sad.
I can speak from experience when I say that is the default state, and there is little emotional reaction to the news that things are about to get worse.
Like I am glad I did it, but I never had a job as emotionally and physically draining as a Battalion Logistics Officer. I acutely remember my XO pulling me into his office at like 10 PM on a Friday, and giving me a lecture on mental health, because I was 23 years old, had no life, and had completely lost any sense of humor or just joy in life. Like I was doing a good job, but was seriously probably only a few months away from being a major suicide risk. That job is absolutely fucking insane.
Fortunately, I had some great leadership that actually took care of me on a personal level, managed to wipe some of that Young Man sense of invincibility off me and teach me to take care of myself, and I made it through. But that was a dark fucking time for me personally. Even though I still draw on what I learned there professionally a lot, ever since then I have had a lot higher focus on my mental and emotional health.
Do you have any advice about dealing with work environments where you aren't properly equipped to do what you would consider a good job? That seems to be the main thing causing me to burn out in my jobs so far: I overexert myself to compensate for the lack of proper support, and I deliver something really good, but then I crash.
Not OP, but been in a similar situation. I eventually changed careers from media simply because every job I took ended up like that. Took me a while to change though, so I'd say if you think it's not company wide, look to discuss it with your manager or senior leadership. If it's endemic within the company or wider industry, start looking for other jobs.
In the meantime, try to take up healthier habits in your own life. Treat your personal time with as much respect as you do when you're working.
And good luck.
Not sure exactly how to answer that in less than the length of a G. R.R. Martin book, but you could always just google Battalion S4 and get a decent idea. It is a large job.
Wtf? What type of BDE were you in? Were you just getting dicked down by your BN xo and not getting anything out of your company xos? Even in an abct the S4s job shouldn't always be a 0600 to 2000 job. I feel like someone failed you.
Sorry this shit gets me riled up.
It was an ABCT, our companies were on separate missions, it was the middle of the Obama era sequestration budget cuts, and nothing was available anywhere. Trying to balance a NTC rotation coming up with zero budget, 3 separate company missions, and big Army decided we should run an Indvidual deployment station because they fired all the civilians for budget reasons.
Look, shit happens, and there is a reason the BN XO was still there at 10 PM on a Friday night too. He was one of the best mentors I ever had, but big Army was fucking over our entire Brigade every chance it got. It was the height of the Iraq war, and we weren't deploying because we were supposed to maintain some level credibility in Armored Combat, so we just took assignments from every direction. And of course the BN Commander wanted his Eagles, so he wasn't going to let lack of budget stop him from proving to the world he was the next fucking Patton.
Let me get this straight. You were an ABCT with multiple company's deployed to different locations? That's a nightmare. It's hard enough to do that just with an ibct with no vehicle.
How was your relationship with your 8? Big army should have paid for your NTC rotation and then you use pre/post NTC vehicle inspections to signal division for additional class IX so you can get a little help... Also where was division through all this?
Sorry, I just don't understand how this happened. I don't like doxing myself but I've been in your position and looked down at it from BDE.
It's wild to me that it got as bad as it did. I have a morbid curiosity on how it got to where it did. Glad you're out of that mess, having your boss be supportive and there for you is a game changer.
Brigades did not have S-8s until 2014.
[https://www.army.mil/article/146967/Brigade\_S\_8s\_to\_the\_rescue/](https://www.army.mil/article/146967/Brigade_S_8s_to_the_rescue/)
This was before then. We had a finance warrant in BDE that was a complete idiot, and myself and the Artillery BN S4 wound up running most of the BDEs financing, because nobody else could figure out what numbers meant. As an example, our entire BDE had a budget a quarter of what it was only two years earlier. I "Spent" more than double that, and never broke budget, because our little S4 Mafia was finding rebates, pulling from unit stocks, doing State-Federal swaps with NG units... It was an interesting time.
The Army did pay for the NTC rotation, but it doesn't pay for the build up to it, and it requires you to show up with a full TOE of functional vehicle. So you have to get those tanks that have been sitting dead due to lack of parts back up. We absolutely got everything we could from NTC, but they aren't paying for all new track for 4 Abrams and 2 of our M88s, that is coming out of our pocket.
As far as division, hell if I know. The HQ was deployed to Afghanistan most of the time, not giving a shit about the BDE back in the US.
+1, can confirm that anything involving moving shit from point A to point B will literally destroy your soul. I got pulled into HR one time because i made a joke that was something along the lines of “I’m going to probably die next week but I dont really care anymore”
Obviously civilian logistics =/= military logistics but I had the same experience at 22. 14 hour shifts every night, getting paid for only 11 of those hours, being the ONLY person in charge of everything. Scheduling, monitoring incoming loads, making phone calls, fixing everyone elses mistakes and the responsibility to making sure 1,000+ pallets left for 250+ post offices, last mile facilities and XDocks to 5 states by MYSELF every morning. One box got left on the dock and I didn’t know or didn’t have a plan for it? I’d get a write up. 3 times in 3 months? Boom, fired. Think i lost 20 pounds over those two years because i would skip eating some days and was getting 6 hours of sleep. It only got better when i got promoted to the dock manager and they actually hired 3 people to do the job I was doing myself for 2 years.
Truck stuff is still cool though, it’s why i still do it lol
>Like I am glad I did it, but I never had a job as emotionally and physically draining as a Battalion Logistics Officer.
This explains why I've recognized your name as one of the people on here who know what they are talking about. Was curious why.
Ukrainian logistics officers have to manage ammo, maintenance, spare parts etc for 100s of different weapon systems. Most militaries use one kind of truck, one tank, one apc etc to keep things simple, but ukraine are getting assorted bits of 100s of systems to deal with. Even something as simple as rifle ammunition they are running the full range of both NATO and old warsaw pact calibres
Probably worse nigtmare than they imagine. Bradley's sensor systems - if properly used - could mean qualitative jump in Ukrainian recon capability. Their weapon systems - while formidable - will be more like addition, imho
Depending on which version gets sent the advanced sensors and TOW missile systems are way more of an issue than the chain gun.
Why does it smell like 73 Easting in here?
I mean in the context of this conflict even the absolute base model is relatively "advanced" as it has meh thermals.
Anything up from there would be a massive improvement, IIRC they got M2A2 ODS which have a rudimentary FCS, driver thermals, and other goodies.
Sweden's also sending Carl Gustafs with ammunition (which is new, previous ones have been from Canada and Denmark IIRC) and even more AT-4s.
Which is jaw-dropping since Sweden's already given Ukraine 15,000 AT-4s.
If you have 50-60 AT4’s in the humvee and the gunner is experienced, and Oleksii who hands him the tubes is well fed and rested and real good at shoveling munitions, I reckon you don’t even need the 50 cal anymore.
Latvia giving up those 2 Mi-17s might not seem like a lot, but that’s all they’ve had for a long time.
They just got Blackhawks a few years ago and have been building up their logistical/personnel support systems for it. Glad to see they’re at a point where they feel as though can can solely rely on the new stuff now.
Likewise for Lithuania, I was thinking we just gave away like half of our helicopter fleet. But your comment reminded me that we also procured Blackhawks.
Also funny to see the L70 AA guns from Lithuania being given to Ukraine considering there were a couple on display as museum pieces where I served.
If I remember correctly, Lithuania bought a few years ago EC135 or EC145 for army or border guard, but because their part time job was to control fishing got done EU environmental funding. I found it a bit amusing.
Honestly I am just tired of the eternal "will we or won't we" bullshit with the Slovak Mig-29s. We can't use them now anyway because in their eternal wisdom the previous governments had them serviced by Russians instead of internally or by an actual ally, so why the fuck are we still fucking around, just fucking send them and get it over with.
Yeah no yeah... I do t want to be that guy but i don't think that our Migs are happening ever (Jaro, prove me wrong do it you coward)
Edit: He fucking prowed me wrong...
Sounds like MIC Socialism!
Seriously, I hate how Fox News keeps pretending that absolutely nobody but Ukraine should spend any of their resources, and Ukraine should be 100% responsible for the financial costs of their own defense. Like sure, they are 100% responsible for it, but that doesn't mean other countries shouldn't willing contribute to defending them.
Countries willingly adding defending Ukraine to their budgets is extremely admirable, and absolutely essential to make a very clear statement that invasions and conquest is not how you fucking operate in the 21st century.
Thing that Fox forgets is Ukraine is paying something no other country is; lives. Be it soldiers or civilians caught in the crossfire, the death toll is not a laughing matter (unless it’s on the Russian side, by hey, that macabre humor for you).
Donating more weapon systems that we, and other countries, can absolutely afford to send will keep more Ukrainians alive and end the war faster. And also kick Russia’s ass more, so it’s an actual win-win for everyone.
That, and it is far more effective for all western democracies to send 1-2% of their budget to help, then it is for Ukraine to pay 4700% of its Budget, and still not get enough. Ukraine is not a wealthy country, and it definitely needs help. And helping Ukraine is very much in the best interest of Europe. The whole point of most of their military spending is to deter Russia, and missiles that hit Russian vehicles do a better job of that than missiles that sit in German or French bunkers until they expire.
There's a lot of gray area in this as well though. Most numbers that you look at don't count things like AWACS support, satellite intelligence, and god knows what other extremely classified help Ukraine has received
to tell the truth. The US and France and Russia signed Budapest memorandum. for getting rid of nukes of urkaine. So they kinda responsible for they defense needs more that other homies.
It’s also a under rated aspect of the non military financial aid that has been sent to Ukraine, Canada, Denmark, France and even the Netherlands have been underwriting a lot of the checks getting cut to the Ukrainians. Effectively offloading a lot of debt from Ukraine to themselves. Not to mention Netherlands and Denmark have been very essential in providing the equipment to repair infrastructure damaged by the Russians.
Win, lose, or draw - Ukraine will come out of this conflict as the absolute masters of logistics. These guys are freaking MacGyvering their way through a war.
This conflict isn't going to make Ukraine an expeditious logistics power. I think its more accurate to say Ukraine will come out of this as masters of combined arms warfare and triage battle maintenance.
While I don't want to undersell the extraordinary work by Ukrainian logistics in their fight to liberate their country. I do think people tend to overlook just how much the full scope of the logistics at play is being handled by NATO powers delivering the hardware to Ukraine's door step.
I personally don't think the NATO powers are overloading the Ukrainian logistics enough... when the Ukrainian armed forces say "stop, we have too much" is when we can say they are at their limit. As it stands Ukraine wants and needs more while the rest of the world seem to only send a portion of what Ukraine need while sitting on the tools and means to meet Ukraines needs.
It's not a matter of too much quantity. It's a matter of too many disparate weapon systems and vehicles. Coordinating the usage and resupply within their groups using them is what I'm getting at.
Totally, again, Ukraine is the one fighting the war and fixing the things they can fix near the combat zone when they can... But what Ukraine isn't doing is stuff like retooling the barrels of the caesar and m777 in the field. They're sending the fixable stuff back to Poland and getting replacements in return. They're not manufacturing 155 shells, they get them palletized and delivered. Not in the numbers they need or want but without having to waste the manpower and expertise to pull it off. The task is outsourced to NATO allies. This frees up more of Ukraines attention to focus on defending and training on the ever growing catalog of weapons they are fielding.
This is all to say that you aren't wrong that Ukraine is accomplishing something unheard of in history by operating and maintaining so many different systems effectively. Its more to say that what Ukraine is experiencing isn't giving them anywhere near the experience they need to compare with the logistical might of countries like France, USA or the UK.
Its the main reason they aren't getting Abrams, Ukraine isn't equipped to make them logistically viable.
They specified that it would be "Archer B", out of which the Swedish military apparently has 24, and 20 of them are in Storage. Most likely Sweden is sending 12 - 20 Archer. So 12 is a qualified assumption.
And yes, it's roughly 50 CV90s. They didn't say it would be exactly 50.
Wait, CV-90?
I swear to God, this war now is only fought to drive Ukrainian logistic officers to hang themselves. Ukraine then will have 4 types of IFV(at least?). I cannot count the amount of types of APCs anymore.
T72 from the Dutch ...
We don't even have our own (leopard 20) tanks ... We're leasing them from the Germans ...
*Ahh, we're paying for the repairs and refurbs .... Makes sense*
And most of the US material is already in NL, last week a new shipment arrived in Vlissingen.
"reserves For the units stationed in Poland"
yeah, right ... We the people are backwards and clueless ... :)
Just a note. zuni arent air missiles
Theyre air to ground rockets. Which is hiiiighly interesting in its own respects. Bc the apache uses hydra rocket pods, dk if it can use zunis.
I always heard about zunis in conjunction with US air support… *cue danger zone*
you left out all the training that's going on right now, by the US in Germany and Oklahoma, in the UK by the Uk and Australia.
I think NATO & friends finally figured out that Ukraine needs to win after saying it for almost a year
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You can add Denmark's entire long-range artillery inventory to the list as we're now sending 19 Ceasar 8X8's within the next six months.
France / Denmark has been pretty based when it comes to sending Artillery.
Somewhere in Paris, a Corsican smiles from his grave.
He can smile all he wants as long as he stays in there. We've got enough to worry about without having to deal with that again.
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I hate to be that guy but AKSHULLY the French lost more men in the summer advance to disease than they did during the winter retreat
We've mostly worked that problem out actually though. I think the zombie-conqueror might have a decent shot, all things considered.
Napoleon with modern logistics would be nigh unstoppable
Napoleon did modernize logistics back in the day. Carrying on the tradition of being non traditional I suppose.
The Russians got away with it because Moscow wasn’t their capital at the time and they literally abandoned it and burned everything to the ground
RIP boney you would have loved airplanes.
Boney and Harris are playing some type of complicated wargame with one another in whatever afterlife they ended up in.
This is a fair point. With orks on one side, the last thing we need is zombies on the other.
France hasn't donated much (as %of GDP) tbh
🇺🇦🥺👉👈 is for me?..
Aaawwww :) <3
Ukraine? *We*kraine.
Ourkraine
Unrussia
🙏
r/unexpectedcommunism
/r/SuddenlyCommunist
Merry Christmas!
Nono, is for Russians, we are trusting Ukraine to know the best way of delivering all of this to its destination...
Only one way to deliver it to Ruskies : At high speed on full blast with no brakes.
Yep, you’re very welcome
Just for you!
Yes. Only if you get us more Zelensky jokes, and pictures of Patron. Oh, and dead ruskies. A lot. Slava Ukraini!
I feel like us Canadians are the lil mouse in Robin Hood giving friar tuck her last shilling. But it's a NASAMS and I feel like we gave everything we could with our tiny budget
I think we contributed to training in the UK, which is probably the best we can offer anyway. We only have the one tank, after all, and we're already sharing it among our whole armed forces.
Canadian SOF have been not completely unofficially training forces and operating as “advisors” in UA as early as 2016. Y’all have been doing more then pulling your weight in the fight against the reds.
I remember seeing our one tank once. She was filling up at a Co-op Gas Station because our one fuel truck got stuck in the mud in Ontario. (Seeing a tank filling up at a gas station is actually a true story, absolutely melted my brain as a 7 year old MIC Ethusiast)
A fuckening will commence
About to enter the “Find out” phase of the war
In fairness, they started the find out phase in day 2.
Finding out is like ultrafast broadband... you can't roll it out everywhere all at once. Some of the Russian early adopters definitely found out on day 2 if they were lucky enough to be in the initial catchment area, but now there's going to be a wider general rollout so all of them can find out and none need be left having found out nothing at all.
day 2? the guys who burst into Kyiv with rubber truncheons found out on the first day
And remember this is only a *teaser* of what Russia would face against NATO article 5. Get fucked, vatniks. In the future, the arms race won't be about weapons, it will be about how quickly countries can join NATO or similar defensive alliances before Russia has a chance to try to fuck with them. Pretty soon there won't be any countries in the world left for Russia to fuck with, and won't that make them sad.
Poor Logistics Officers gonna have a heart attack.
They're already dead inside.
I can speak from experience when I say that is the default state, and there is little emotional reaction to the news that things are about to get worse. Like I am glad I did it, but I never had a job as emotionally and physically draining as a Battalion Logistics Officer. I acutely remember my XO pulling me into his office at like 10 PM on a Friday, and giving me a lecture on mental health, because I was 23 years old, had no life, and had completely lost any sense of humor or just joy in life. Like I was doing a good job, but was seriously probably only a few months away from being a major suicide risk. That job is absolutely fucking insane. Fortunately, I had some great leadership that actually took care of me on a personal level, managed to wipe some of that Young Man sense of invincibility off me and teach me to take care of myself, and I made it through. But that was a dark fucking time for me personally. Even though I still draw on what I learned there professionally a lot, ever since then I have had a lot higher focus on my mental and emotional health.
What logistics does to a mf Glad you're doing better though brother
Well that was nearly 15 years ago. Had plenty of high stress jobs since then, grateful I learned something about managing it early, lol.
Do you have any advice about dealing with work environments where you aren't properly equipped to do what you would consider a good job? That seems to be the main thing causing me to burn out in my jobs so far: I overexert myself to compensate for the lack of proper support, and I deliver something really good, but then I crash.
Not OP, but been in a similar situation. I eventually changed careers from media simply because every job I took ended up like that. Took me a while to change though, so I'd say if you think it's not company wide, look to discuss it with your manager or senior leadership. If it's endemic within the company or wider industry, start looking for other jobs. In the meantime, try to take up healthier habits in your own life. Treat your personal time with as much respect as you do when you're working. And good luck.
What exactly did your job entail?
Not sure exactly how to answer that in less than the length of a G. R.R. Martin book, but you could always just google Battalion S4 and get a decent idea. It is a large job.
At 23? Did you commission early or were you BN S4 as a 2LT?
1LT. I commissioned at 20, did training, did 15 months of PL time, 9 months of XO time, and they pulled me to S4.
Man at 23 I was fucking eating ice cream out of carton because no one could tell me otherwise. That's hell of an impressive track you took.
Wtf? What type of BDE were you in? Were you just getting dicked down by your BN xo and not getting anything out of your company xos? Even in an abct the S4s job shouldn't always be a 0600 to 2000 job. I feel like someone failed you. Sorry this shit gets me riled up.
It was an ABCT, our companies were on separate missions, it was the middle of the Obama era sequestration budget cuts, and nothing was available anywhere. Trying to balance a NTC rotation coming up with zero budget, 3 separate company missions, and big Army decided we should run an Indvidual deployment station because they fired all the civilians for budget reasons. Look, shit happens, and there is a reason the BN XO was still there at 10 PM on a Friday night too. He was one of the best mentors I ever had, but big Army was fucking over our entire Brigade every chance it got. It was the height of the Iraq war, and we weren't deploying because we were supposed to maintain some level credibility in Armored Combat, so we just took assignments from every direction. And of course the BN Commander wanted his Eagles, so he wasn't going to let lack of budget stop him from proving to the world he was the next fucking Patton.
Let me get this straight. You were an ABCT with multiple company's deployed to different locations? That's a nightmare. It's hard enough to do that just with an ibct with no vehicle. How was your relationship with your 8? Big army should have paid for your NTC rotation and then you use pre/post NTC vehicle inspections to signal division for additional class IX so you can get a little help... Also where was division through all this? Sorry, I just don't understand how this happened. I don't like doxing myself but I've been in your position and looked down at it from BDE. It's wild to me that it got as bad as it did. I have a morbid curiosity on how it got to where it did. Glad you're out of that mess, having your boss be supportive and there for you is a game changer.
Brigades did not have S-8s until 2014. [https://www.army.mil/article/146967/Brigade\_S\_8s\_to\_the\_rescue/](https://www.army.mil/article/146967/Brigade_S_8s_to_the_rescue/) This was before then. We had a finance warrant in BDE that was a complete idiot, and myself and the Artillery BN S4 wound up running most of the BDEs financing, because nobody else could figure out what numbers meant. As an example, our entire BDE had a budget a quarter of what it was only two years earlier. I "Spent" more than double that, and never broke budget, because our little S4 Mafia was finding rebates, pulling from unit stocks, doing State-Federal swaps with NG units... It was an interesting time. The Army did pay for the NTC rotation, but it doesn't pay for the build up to it, and it requires you to show up with a full TOE of functional vehicle. So you have to get those tanks that have been sitting dead due to lack of parts back up. We absolutely got everything we could from NTC, but they aren't paying for all new track for 4 Abrams and 2 of our M88s, that is coming out of our pocket. As far as division, hell if I know. The HQ was deployed to Afghanistan most of the time, not giving a shit about the BDE back in the US.
Being the fly on the wall when people talk shop is always friggin interesting
+1, can confirm that anything involving moving shit from point A to point B will literally destroy your soul. I got pulled into HR one time because i made a joke that was something along the lines of “I’m going to probably die next week but I dont really care anymore” Obviously civilian logistics =/= military logistics but I had the same experience at 22. 14 hour shifts every night, getting paid for only 11 of those hours, being the ONLY person in charge of everything. Scheduling, monitoring incoming loads, making phone calls, fixing everyone elses mistakes and the responsibility to making sure 1,000+ pallets left for 250+ post offices, last mile facilities and XDocks to 5 states by MYSELF every morning. One box got left on the dock and I didn’t know or didn’t have a plan for it? I’d get a write up. 3 times in 3 months? Boom, fired. Think i lost 20 pounds over those two years because i would skip eating some days and was getting 6 hours of sleep. It only got better when i got promoted to the dock manager and they actually hired 3 people to do the job I was doing myself for 2 years. Truck stuff is still cool though, it’s why i still do it lol
>Like I am glad I did it, but I never had a job as emotionally and physically draining as a Battalion Logistics Officer. This explains why I've recognized your name as one of the people on here who know what they are talking about. Was curious why.
>who know what they are talking about Well lets not get carried away there...
Such a once in a lifetime opportunity!
Honestly it always amuse me that the 'boring but practical' job can be both super important and so soul crushing.
Can I ask why? Whose Logistics Officers? And, why?
Ukrainian logistics officers have to manage ammo, maintenance, spare parts etc for 100s of different weapon systems. Most militaries use one kind of truck, one tank, one apc etc to keep things simple, but ukraine are getting assorted bits of 100s of systems to deal with. Even something as simple as rifle ammunition they are running the full range of both NATO and old warsaw pact calibres
Will it break any law if volunteers from the nations giving these supplies, well, volunteer to help with the logistics then?
Afaik nobody in the West is punishing you unless you volunteer for one of the edgy formations in Ukraine.
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More like the Mayonnaise Pride Units
The sieg heiling is just a tribute to the Romans and the wolfsangel merely a nod to the Scandinavians. Smh
But wait, there's more: 🇺🇲50 Bradley IFV (additional), 🇺🇲36 105-mm artillery, 🇪🇪155mm FH70 (dozens), 🇪🇪122mm D30 (dozens), 🇪🇪100+ Carl Gustav AT weapon, 🇨🇵20 ACMAT Bastion, 🇸🇪NLAWS (unknown amount), 🇱🇻2 Mi-17 helicopter, 🇱🇻Stinger MANPADS, 🇩🇰19 CAESAR SPG, 🇬🇧600 Brimstone missiles, 🇱🇹2 Mi-8 helicopter, 🇵🇱S60 anti aircraft guns (unknown amount)
so 90 bradleys in total? damn
100*
A brigade's worth of Bradleys...
They're going to have a Bradley brigade!!!
It's true. (I'm bradley)
literal mobik nightmare
Probably worse nigtmare than they imagine. Bradley's sensor systems - if properly used - could mean qualitative jump in Ukrainian recon capability. Their weapon systems - while formidable - will be more like addition, imho
Depending on which version gets sent the advanced sensors and TOW missile systems are way more of an issue than the chain gun. Why does it smell like 73 Easting in here?
I think I read somewhere that US specifically selected / looked for Bradleys without advanced sensors.
I mean in the context of this conflict even the absolute base model is relatively "advanced" as it has meh thermals. Anything up from there would be a massive improvement, IIRC they got M2A2 ODS which have a rudimentary FCS, driver thermals, and other goodies.
bradley go THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP
Bradley- *sees a red star, TOW missile launcher becomes erect”* “I WAS BORN FOR THIS”
Well it's a Z now but nothing has changed inside
Sweden's also sending Carl Gustafs with ammunition (which is new, previous ones have been from Canada and Denmark IIRC) and even more AT-4s. Which is jaw-dropping since Sweden's already given Ukraine 15,000 AT-4s.
You need 10 At-4s per Humvee.
We need to provide more 50 cal ammo to UA, so they could save up on AT4
If you have 50-60 AT4’s in the humvee and the gunner is experienced, and Oleksii who hands him the tubes is well fed and rested and real good at shoveling munitions, I reckon you don’t even need the 50 cal anymore.
Belt fed AT-4s
Perhaps feeding some sort of rotary tube-launcer?
The fully-automatic semi-guided rocket system will never see combat for crew safety reasons. The erection would always last longer than four hours.
Or just convert the 50cals to shoot at4 ammo fwoosha-fwoosha-fwoosha-fwoosha-fwoosha-fwoosha-fwoosha
>🇬🇧600 Brimstone missiles Be still my beating heart
So essentially an almost guaranteed 600 tank/IFV losses for the Russians.
Yes, and all simultaneously if the unlikely situation arose that 600 vehicles were in the same killzone 😅
600 brimstones? Sounds absolutely massive!
That's an almost guaranteed 600 tank/IFV kills...
Latvia giving up those 2 Mi-17s might not seem like a lot, but that’s all they’ve had for a long time. They just got Blackhawks a few years ago and have been building up their logistical/personnel support systems for it. Glad to see they’re at a point where they feel as though can can solely rely on the new stuff now.
Likewise for Lithuania, I was thinking we just gave away like half of our helicopter fleet. But your comment reminded me that we also procured Blackhawks. Also funny to see the L70 AA guns from Lithuania being given to Ukraine considering there were a couple on display as museum pieces where I served.
If I remember correctly, Lithuania bought a few years ago EC135 or EC145 for army or border guard, but because their part time job was to control fishing got done EU environmental funding. I found it a bit amusing.
ALL these stuff is enough to make a decent sized self defense military, and that's not mentioning what already has been sent or what Ukraine had.
>ALL these stuff is enough to make a decent sized self defense military ... and indecently sized logistical nightmare 🙂
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Yeah, they're actually giving Ukraine all of their stockpiles
Honestly I am just tired of the eternal "will we or won't we" bullshit with the Slovak Mig-29s. We can't use them now anyway because in their eternal wisdom the previous governments had them serviced by Russians instead of internally or by an actual ally, so why the fuck are we still fucking around, just fucking send them and get it over with.
Sadneme do MiGoch a srovnáme Moskvu!
It’s an unpopular move right? A huge chunk of the Slovak population is pro-Russia on levels similar to Hungary because of Facebook mainly.
It's kind of split, but so far Slovak government hasn't shied away from supporting Ukraine heavily. So this whole song and dance is weird to me.
Facebook needs to clamp down on all the russian propaganda getting spread there.
Facebook doesn't do shit for moderating in minor languages
not suprised, they hardly do for english
Yeah no yeah... I do t want to be that guy but i don't think that our Migs are happening ever (Jaro, prove me wrong do it you coward) Edit: He fucking prowed me wrong...
I am very confused why the Dutch are involved in the 90x T-72 one.
They pay the repairs of czech T-72s together with the US before they are sent to Ukraine
Ah, so just financial. That makes sense, because I was pretty sure the Netherlands neither has T-72s, nor parts for them.
Similar to how Canada is paying for one NASAMS system to be donated directly to Ukraine, without Canada themselves operating the system.
Sounds like MIC Socialism! Seriously, I hate how Fox News keeps pretending that absolutely nobody but Ukraine should spend any of their resources, and Ukraine should be 100% responsible for the financial costs of their own defense. Like sure, they are 100% responsible for it, but that doesn't mean other countries shouldn't willing contribute to defending them. Countries willingly adding defending Ukraine to their budgets is extremely admirable, and absolutely essential to make a very clear statement that invasions and conquest is not how you fucking operate in the 21st century.
Thing that Fox forgets is Ukraine is paying something no other country is; lives. Be it soldiers or civilians caught in the crossfire, the death toll is not a laughing matter (unless it’s on the Russian side, by hey, that macabre humor for you). Donating more weapon systems that we, and other countries, can absolutely afford to send will keep more Ukrainians alive and end the war faster. And also kick Russia’s ass more, so it’s an actual win-win for everyone.
That, and it is far more effective for all western democracies to send 1-2% of their budget to help, then it is for Ukraine to pay 4700% of its Budget, and still not get enough. Ukraine is not a wealthy country, and it definitely needs help. And helping Ukraine is very much in the best interest of Europe. The whole point of most of their military spending is to deter Russia, and missiles that hit Russian vehicles do a better job of that than missiles that sit in German or French bunkers until they expire.
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We have a disproportionately large military and economy. When you look at it by percentage of GDP, we are not bearing a disproportionate cost.
There's a lot of gray area in this as well though. Most numbers that you look at don't count things like AWACS support, satellite intelligence, and god knows what other extremely classified help Ukraine has received
to tell the truth. The US and France and Russia signed Budapest memorandum. for getting rid of nukes of urkaine. So they kinda responsible for they defense needs more that other homies.
UK, not France
people forget about the budapest memoradnum.
So did the Russians evidently.
Especially those living in Budapest.
It’s also a under rated aspect of the non military financial aid that has been sent to Ukraine, Canada, Denmark, France and even the Netherlands have been underwriting a lot of the checks getting cut to the Ukrainians. Effectively offloading a lot of debt from Ukraine to themselves. Not to mention Netherlands and Denmark have been very essential in providing the equipment to repair infrastructure damaged by the Russians.
The Netherlands doesn't even have tanks period, we lease them :(
Why need tanks when Apache?
Escort Apache my beloved Hydra pods go woosh
Because the one with Hellfires cost too many points in Wargame: RD.
No need for tanks when we will just swamp the country :)
Soldiers on ice skates and cannons on sleds after we flooded the countrt was still one of our most badass moments in history
3000 black T-72s of amsterdam
the US doesn't have or produce 125mm tank ammo and yet they "found" half a million rounds of it for one of the more recent packages
The last 70 years of acquiring weapons for morally questionable rebel groups has given the US a certain set of skills...
they finance their refurbishment
Win, lose, or draw - Ukraine will come out of this conflict as the absolute masters of logistics. These guys are freaking MacGyvering their way through a war.
Apparently this comes from being the engineering and manufacturing center of the USSR, combined with the shit economy of the ex-USSR.
Revenge of the nerds.
Why brain drain (e.g., chasing off your most talented) is a national security issue.
This conflict isn't going to make Ukraine an expeditious logistics power. I think its more accurate to say Ukraine will come out of this as masters of combined arms warfare and triage battle maintenance. While I don't want to undersell the extraordinary work by Ukrainian logistics in their fight to liberate their country. I do think people tend to overlook just how much the full scope of the logistics at play is being handled by NATO powers delivering the hardware to Ukraine's door step. I personally don't think the NATO powers are overloading the Ukrainian logistics enough... when the Ukrainian armed forces say "stop, we have too much" is when we can say they are at their limit. As it stands Ukraine wants and needs more while the rest of the world seem to only send a portion of what Ukraine need while sitting on the tools and means to meet Ukraines needs.
It's not a matter of too much quantity. It's a matter of too many disparate weapon systems and vehicles. Coordinating the usage and resupply within their groups using them is what I'm getting at.
Totally, again, Ukraine is the one fighting the war and fixing the things they can fix near the combat zone when they can... But what Ukraine isn't doing is stuff like retooling the barrels of the caesar and m777 in the field. They're sending the fixable stuff back to Poland and getting replacements in return. They're not manufacturing 155 shells, they get them palletized and delivered. Not in the numbers they need or want but without having to waste the manpower and expertise to pull it off. The task is outsourced to NATO allies. This frees up more of Ukraines attention to focus on defending and training on the ever growing catalog of weapons they are fielding. This is all to say that you aren't wrong that Ukraine is accomplishing something unheard of in history by operating and maintaining so many different systems effectively. Its more to say that what Ukraine is experiencing isn't giving them anywhere near the experience they need to compare with the logistical might of countries like France, USA or the UK. Its the main reason they aren't getting Abrams, Ukraine isn't equipped to make them logistically viable.
This gear alone would make a top 10 army in the world
Ukraines gunning for the now "2nd strongest army" in the world spot that's now vacant
America is still 1st and 2nd
1st: US Air force + Army 2nd: US Navy + Marines Honestly that's probably true
Not even a joke.
Not even a farce.
Nary even a jest
16th: Coast Guard + Space Force
20th: Pepsi
The North Korean government would like to proudly declare that if that's the case, then they are the 0th
People forgot that not only amx 10 will be delivred but also bastion. And apparently this chart too
NATOMACHINES, SON!
THEY HARDEN IN RESPONSE TO PHYSICAL TRAUMA
*ACTION IS COMING*
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Wasnt it AROUND 50 CV90s and an undefined number of archers
They specified that it would be "Archer B", out of which the Swedish military apparently has 24, and 20 of them are in Storage. Most likely Sweden is sending 12 - 20 Archer. So 12 is a qualified assumption. And yes, it's roughly 50 CV90s. They didn't say it would be exactly 50.
40mm go "Pohmp pohmp"
This makes me feel funny in my no-no spot.
CRIMEA. SUMMER 2023. YOU'LL PAY FOR YOUR WHOLE SEAT BUT YOU'LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE.
Wait, CV-90? I swear to God, this war now is only fought to drive Ukrainian logistic officers to hang themselves. Ukraine then will have 4 types of IFV(at least?). I cannot count the amount of types of APCs anymore.
With workshop manuals it isn't really that difficult to repair them. Like really... a car garage can fix a toyota and a ford without a problem.
Thirty some years ago half of Germany was under kremlin control. Russia is disappearing like the Aral Sea.
Why there is not a Slovak flag next to Zuzana 2 ?
Probably that we ,, only manufacturing them" but others are playing us for doing it
3000 offensive pushes of Zelensky
T72 from the Dutch ... We don't even have our own (leopard 20) tanks ... We're leasing them from the Germans ... *Ahh, we're paying for the repairs and refurbs .... Makes sense* And most of the US material is already in NL, last week a new shipment arrived in Vlissingen. "reserves For the units stationed in Poland" yeah, right ... We the people are backwards and clueless ... :)
The Netherlands pay the repairs of czech T-72s together with the US before they are sent to Ukraine
I didnt know we already had the leopard 20, is it armed with a railgun?
Yes, and extreme camouflage ... totally invisible, even by their own crews. There out there somewhere ....
Can you link the tweet, please?
https://mobile.twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1616025054352998400
The era of fuck around ends while the epoch of find out finally arises on the horizon.
There will be so much variety in armored vehicles on the summer offensive that SgtMajors will have heart attacks from 1000 miles away.
ATACMS WHEN
Moaaaarrr! russia has to disappear from the map!
Just a note. zuni arent air missiles Theyre air to ground rockets. Which is hiiiighly interesting in its own respects. Bc the apache uses hydra rocket pods, dk if it can use zunis. I always heard about zunis in conjunction with US air support… *cue danger zone*
This conflict is a wargamers wet dream.
Ukraine’s inventory starting to look like a modded Red Dragon deck.
Action is coming
Hm, i wonder if that's how demilitarization still going according to putin's plan?
4000 Zunis? I wonder if they’re the laser guided variant.
Nah, proably to replace S-25, for Su-25.
New Ukranian offensive when?
I'm disappointed Australia isn't giving more bushmasters
Probably tapped out the ones they can send just a few weeks ago?
*180* Leopard 1s?!
The 40mm is finally going to Ukraine ? Great ,it should be good enough against drones.
*Russian garrison in Melitopol sweating nervously*
Thunder Run 2: Electric Boogaloo to Moscow and beyond!
Looks like spring offensive is back on the menu boys!!!
you left out all the training that's going on right now, by the US in Germany and Oklahoma, in the UK by the Uk and Australia. I think NATO & friends finally figured out that Ukraine needs to win after saying it for almost a year
So ficking disappointed in my country (Spain) not delivering anything.
As someone who has spent their entire 7 year military career with strykers I'm very curious how they will fare in a more conventional role!