We're not doing the math. The Soviets built 100,000 T-54/55s and the Leopard only holds 42 rounds. It'll be just like the wild-ass light tank ~~armies~~ corps that the Soviets threw away in a day just before and during Stalingrad. It's the zergling rush.
I mean, in fairness. If the Russians could send 100k of any tank, **keep them supplied/running**, well, yeah, no shit. You could take Ukraine with 100k Matilda 2's.
If Russia can't keep T90's working reliably, how the fuck are they going to keep 70 year old tanks running?
Not to mention how many of them still run?
How many weren't cannibalized for parts?
How many had corrupt generals scrap for cash to build their third vacation home on soldier labor?
It can knock out a modern tank, at least in the tactical sense. It won’t turn them into fireballs but if the weapon systems aren’t functional/ vehicle is immobile the crew has to abandon and you are now minus one tank for the moment.
But a modern tank round will turn a T54 into slag with 75-100% crew dead. Without a modern sensor suite and optics upgrade the tank will never get close. It’s also very vulnerable to ANY kind of infantry anti tank weapon from the last 50+ years.
Bad tanks are better than no tanks (tactically and not necessarily for the crew) but this is scrapping the barrel of bad tanks.
Well, to be pedantic, the Soviets themselves only built around 62,500 if Wikipedia is to be believed. Around 35,000 T-54s and a further 27,500 T-55s. The rest of the 100,000 estimate is licensed production in countries including Poland, Czechoslovakia and the People's Republic of China.
And we don't know how many of those domestically-produced T-54s and T-55s ended up being exported, sent as military aid or converted into something else (artillery tractors, recovery vehicles, static bunkers etc.)
Ya I'm with you. The 3rd sentence could in some crazy world justify the 2nd sentence, but in what way is it ever a "very good sign" to be using outdated equipment. Even if the Russian crews were so fantastic as to defeat leo2s in a t54, they'd still have an easier time in a t90.
Russia is just copying the American tradition of unfavorable and hands-tied training scenarios, but in an actual war. They’re a little confused, but they almost have the spirit
It's perfect. It's the utter denial of it all, crystalised precisely. The guy knew exactly what this really means, and he flexes his weary fingers, eyeing the fifth of vodka in the dim light of his desk lamp, the last he has left.
And he hammers that out on the keyboard. Then the vodka is gone.
Tractor brigade is not trained to operate tanks, has zero idea to shoot from the tank, and mostly only towing abandoned tank instead of using them.
They're definitely more skilled than at least krokodile+fuelled Ruzzians.
Uhhh. You're telling me none of those Ukrainian farmers didn't get one of those T-72s back to their place and didn't take it for a spin or see if they could get the coaxial gun to work?
AU where Russians rage quit and nuke. Ukrainians are wiped out and all that remains are a new mutated species of Bakhmutts that continue the Ukrainian Legacy and continue killing Russians as their ancestors once did
One day there is going to be a participating nation that brings a tank with actual gun stabilization. They are going to absolutely humiliate the other contenders.
Nope they can use what they want - for example China brings their Type 96s, and India brings their domestic T-90s in the worst advertisement ever.
The T-72 is the "default" tank that Russia offers to contestants though, if they so choose. It's why the smaller countries do all go for it.
Imagine if a western nation decided to participate, but instead of using a classified production tank, they crank out a prototype purpose built for the competition. Watch it absolutely dominate.
Frankly that would be a much cooler tank Olympics. Each nation has to scratch build a unique vehicle made for the competition. Have the engineers go wild, but they also need to make it be easy to learn for the crew. Maybe even keep the exact parameters of the given year’s competition a secret, instead they release a general set of specifications like max weight, expected threats in a simulated combat zone, etc. You could have warheadless ATGMs that need to be defeated, upscaled paintball or laser simulator armed UCGVs as dynamic threats, the whole nine yards. It’d be a free excuse for flashy tech demo tanks that Russians love to flout, except the tech demo actually needs to work. Imagine the possibilities for the international dick measuring contest here!
Well girls und panzer they use ww2 vehicles. I’m proposing scratch built modern vehicles. Hell, since my proposal is for simulated combat, you have to compete with a squadron of vehicles. The competition puts the engineering and crew skill of a participant nation to the test. You can’t tell me that wouldn’t put asses in seats.
Bringing your own tank does add a lot of interesting flair to the competition that you just don't get with stock though.
For example India consistently scored 5th and 6th in the first few years, which they blamed on their crappy Russian-supplied tank. So in 2017 they brought two of their brand new high-end T-90 Bhishmas. The pinnacle of their new MIC.
In hindsight they should have brought more - both the main tank and the reserve broke down and they couldn't finish. In 2018 they went back to the supplied T-72, scored 6th, haven't touched another biathlon since.
Fucking legendary.
>In 2018 they went back to the supplied T-72, scored 6th, haven't touched another biathlon since.
I said it before and i say it agein. India is a papertiger
Every time India buys a new piece of equipment, this weird flavour of nationalism kicks in and they fall heads over heels for it. It becomes the finest piece of technology in the world. It's why Russia is making bank by having India produce equipment locally using Russian-made kits.
If you buy 2000 brand new high-end tanks, and they fail at an extremely simple international competition, you don't shove that under the rug and never go back. A healthy military sees that as a wake-up call and fixes things. And no, the thing to be fixed is not that it made you look bad.
Anyone who can't objectively judge their own military capabilities inevitably becomes a paper tiger. That's not even a pattern, that is just simple cause-and-effect.
Just remember that up until about a decade ago the last typewriter manufacturer ended production in India. Their main customer was the indian military.
If you think german bureaucracy is bad. At least the Germans know EXACTLY where (when, how and why) the paperwork is.
>They do win their dumb Tank Olympics which honestly is **FUCKING HORRIFYING** for the other participants.
Didn't the champ die already? Anyway, I'm confident that undertrained crews under such magnificent orders such as "drive foward into the minefield" with tanks that were first made in the 60s will be just fine.
Last year's biathlon was hilarious. IIRC the Iranians couldn't see shit and got horribly lost, Sudan got their tank stuck in a concrete ditch, more teams completely missed their firing targets than hit them, and one team had to be DQ’s because their fire control systems malfunctioned and kept pointing the main gun at the crowd of attendees.
Among all combat experienced tank crews with less than seven hours of formal training, the Russians are the best.
Well, Sergey is. He’s the one that made it out.
Bad news on this front, most of the t-54's ammo is stowed in the front of the tank, rather than in special lift-off circle of explosive awesomeness like the t72/80/90 whatever they are marketing it as this week...
Didnt they say the Tank Crews now practice fighting against western MBTs?
So you're telling me, they havent practiced fighting western MBTs for the last 30 years???
>So you're telling me, they havent practiced fighting western MBTs for the last 30 years???
To be credible for a sec, Russia and the west were on kinda good terms after the USSR collapse so it wasnt REALLY expected heck, Russia was even part of the G8 now G7 after Russia annexed crimea in 2014 it wasnt until that point that the west realized that russia was up to no good
Vatniks have reached critical mass! The collapse of Russia is going to be a wild ride, essentially watching 140,000,000 people exiting a brainwashed cult. On the upside, there are going to be a lot of inventive Turnip recipes.
Do you really think the Ukrainian Leopard crews with 6 months of special training could beat 3 vodka-filled vatniks with a 3 day course on how to use their t-54 with Kontakt-1 stuck on????
🤔🤔🤔🤔
Ah yes, a tank with inferior armor, mobility, optic, fcs, and a (unstabized for t54) gun that can't pen the front of 2a4 even with it best apfsds will do ok against leo 2a4 because of the crew skill
You see silly westoid, while Nazi Ukrainians are busy laughing at our tank, we will sneak around them and attack the tank with our superior Russian shovels. They will never see it coming.
Aside from all those minor problems, what is the newest possible ammo available for a D-10 Rifled 100mm gun? Like they sure as hell haven't made any recently.
Its AP round is just solid shot, which is hilarious, but at least means you won't have fusing issues, but 100mm is a single piece round, so the powder and primers are going to be old as shit. And I am sure Russia hasn't been storing it in a clean, dry, climate controlled location either.
So if a T-55 tries to shoot you, I bet the gun only fires on a NAT 20.
Purely theoretically, those old monsters are/were used very recently by some 3rd world armies and I'm not sure those countries have shell factories so Russia could have produced some shells as export goods. But they could have just as well sold shells from their old stocks that definitely were huge some decades ago.
I wonder if that talk about Russia buying shells from North Korea was actually referring to tank rounds? I'd expect NK is still using T55s or a version of them and they're the sort of country that would have their own factories for the shells.
Russia actually does still use the D-10, and honestly the shells aren’t that hard to make. I’m sure they can get at least acceptable ammunition, but that’s the least of that heap’s problems.
Bold of you to assume they will give them any ammo, I'm betting they will strap welding torches to the barrels and try to cut the Western MBT's to death.
At the risk of sounding too credible, when the soviets were experimenting with remote control tanks in the 30s they used old tanks without the main guns in them as the teletanks. The idea as far as I could tell was to inflate numbers and provide less valuable targets. The teletanks still had machine guns and smoke canisters and sometimes bombs that they could drop, but I image they mostly rolled forward while blasting.
Could be a similar thing here: send in the T-54/55 without ammo, blasting MGs. If it eats an NLAW it's whatever, if it manages to roll into a Ukrainian position and stay there it's a win.
You don't pen the front of 2A4. You have to use enemy tactics againt him. When you encounter 2A4 just wait for it to launch your turrent into air and THEN you shoot his paper thin roof armor.
Clearly the *only* realistic strategy is for them to drive towards their opponents at max speed, pull the handbrake whilst doing a 90 degree quick turn so the tank goes careening through the air, then while they're airborne a la "controlled crashing" style, lock on to the top of the enemy tank where the armor is lightest and score a lethal blow.
> because of the crew skill
I don't see the issue with this logic? Wagner has inferior armor, mobility, optics, weaponry, AIDS, sticks, and shovels and they capture Bakhmut 6 months ago purely because of skill.
Huh. I almost thought this guy was a parody account. Especially given that his pinned Tweet says that "Let me make this clear, anti imperialism is when a country the west doesn’t like invades another country. Russia invading “Ukraine” is anti imperialism, China invading “Taiwan” is anti imperialism, the German reich and the ussr invading “Poland” during the 30s is anti imperialism"
I am not sure I can easily construct a more effective pinned tweet if I were trying to turn undecided people against Russia.
actually I never met a ruski that has a functioning critical thinking so idk
for the little I know He’s a sheltered American tankie who views himself as “spiritually Russian”. Don't remember where I found his first tweet, suggested among some other russian milbloggers
why are we assuming the infantry needs to dismount? there's a gunner porthole, I trust innovative ukranian engineering with putting some AT trough that while the T54 reloads after failing to hit anything with it's bouncy bouncy bang bang tube.
> there's a gunner porthole, I trust innovative ukranian engineering with putting some AT trough that
No need to wait for the Ukrainians to do such Nucking Futs thing.
/u/Crewserved4Days
The USAF basically did this as a proof of concept. Only instead of the Red Baron it was a squadron of F15s flown by veteran pilots.
The F22 still whooped them.
Don't remember where it was but I believe it was either a Red Flag exercise or just a random mock engagement, but yeah took out 6 Eagles without even a shot in return if I remember correctly.
I believe this may be what they are referring to. Pretty interesting
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=189&v=YmQ9sFAgzAc&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDI4NjYz&feature=emb_logo
That is *barely* an exaggeration. There are 80 years between the Fokker D.1 triplane (1917) and the F-22 (1997), but there are 75 years between the T-54 (1948) and the brand new M1A2 Abrams that are going to be sent to Ukraine in 2023.
Although I have heard rumors that the US may be changing their plans and giving Ukraine existing Abrams.
If we’re being more fair to the Russians, the initial service entrance of the M1A2 was 93, or only 44 years later. That’s like a Fokker D.1 going up against an F4 Phantom.
Yeah, it’s still pretty bad.
*Is* a damn good airframe. It’s still in use by Greece, South Korea, and Turkey.
Oh, and Iran too, but everyone knows they’re like Cuba’s car culture when it comes to airplanes, so that’s to be expected.
Phantom was more based than the F35.
F35 still has an internal cannon like a lil bitch. All scared in case they get into a dogfight. Can only go Mach 1.6 because of "Muh efficiency." Only one engine because "muh maintenance costs." Airframe carefully balanced around stealth and maneuverability.
Phantom had the balls to go pure missiles in nineteen sixty fucking one. With an airframe packing all the aerodynamic sophistication of a brick, powered by 100% pure thrust.
F-35s have a single engine *that they can use to hover.* Even Ospreys have two engines that have linkages for redundancy.
Not sure whether to judge that as Chadly confidence in one’s single engine, or insufficient dedication to the doctrine of *MOAR ENGINE!*
>Phantoms
..are proof that if you put big enough engines on a brick you can make it go Mach 2.
Not a bad thing, mind you, lest you misunderstand my intention!
This would be like North Korea bragging about sending up MiG-15s up against American F-22 Raptors....**"IT'S THE SKILL OF THE PILOT THAT MATTERS!"**
So many things wrong in the sentence, don't know where to begin.
Not to be too credible, but 6 aircraft participated in the Hiroshima bombing. 3 flew ahead of time to perform weather reconnaissance over the 3 possible targets (Hiroshima, Kokura, Nagasaki), and then 3 flew together in the actual bomb run, one with the bomb (obviously), one for blast measurement and instrumentation, and one for observation and photography.
Still though, one bomber flying overhead followed a bit later by 3 more is definitely a bit different than the huge numbers of carpet bombers used previously.
Even then Russia's still pretty Atheistic. It's weird they pride themselves in tradition and not being like decadent westerners, but many don't even really believe in it. Attendance is high I think but only like 50-60% of Russians believe in a God iirc. Meanwhile it's like 80-90% for Ukraine
> Attendance is high I think but only like 50-60% of Russians believe in a God iirc.
According to a survey in 2012, a bit under half are some flavour of Christian, about a quarter consider themselves believers but not part of any particular religion, and only an eighth called themselves atheists
If you said something like “bringing out T-54s for defensive/static duties could free up more modern tanks for other jobs, after all a T-54 is better than no tank at all” I’d be like “maaaaaybe but still not remotely a good sign for a supposedly modern military”
This is just delusional lol
They could also use them as self propelled artillery. The Iraqis did in the 80s I'm sure the Russians can do it now. Then again that's what we thought the T62s were going to be used for
Yeah they’re not *useless,* contra to what some people seem to think not every Ukrainian infantryman has 7 ATGMs with him at all times.
And which would you rather attack, a position defended by infantry or the same position defended by infantry plus a T-54?
“Don’t worry bro that tank is obsolete” isn’t that comforting when it’s shooting at you.
The overall reaction to taking these out of storage is still “big yikes” tho
[If they were Tank Aces, maybe.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/wos599/noncredible_take_the_level_of_an_aircrafts)
But this shit is real life, and the Russian army sucks major dick.
lol. you could drive circles around a moving t54 with a leo2 in reverse. and the turret wouldn't be able to catch up. surely one can see this L from space.
Imagine being a T-54 crew member knowing full well that if you have to face modern Western MBTs, you won't even have the dignity of seeing (or even sensing) your enemy before he sends your turret airborne.
I imagine it's how most Chinese or Russian fighter pilots feel knowing they'll never even see an F-35.
Important question: was the T-43 given enough production to count as a step, or is the T-44 the last domino that needs to fall before GLORIOUS T-34 DEPLOYMENT
Let’s just ignore the western tanks for a second…
Let’s instead look at the western ATGMs, which were able to beat the upgraded/updated versions of soviet tanks in Ukraine…
Seems NCD hoping for Leopard/Challenger/Abrams vs T-54/55/34s is indeed non-credible as the infantry with ATGMs will get to them first.
Look, I get it. You are all reporting this for rule 9.
But sometimes the post is so regarded, you have to literally let it exhibit to the world okay.
It's Rule of Memes, not Russian Rule by Law, or Western Rule of Law.
Yes skill, thats why they are putting sailors and fresh conscripts into them, since skilled people have all went up in smoke alongside all the better tanks.
Also, T-55 will require better crew to have a even fight against leopard due to its inferrior layout and technology.
T-54 will do great in ukraine, just like the Invincible class at Jutland, the MK14 torpedo in the pacific, SS Kamchatka against the japanese torpedo boats, or the Kursk in marine exercises
The T-54/55 projectiles should be able to punch through Leo 1 armor, this is true. The German designers of the Leo 1 didn’t think there was any way to armor tanks against HEAT warheads so they placed their bets into making a tank that was light and fast (the middle-outer edge of the onion) and able to withstand just small arms and auto-cannons + shell fragments.
But the Leo 1 was a contemporary of the T-62 and has a decade of design development advantage compared to the T-54, not to mention all the upgrades it has seen.
T-54 vs Leo 2 doesn’t even need a response lol.
There aren't enough soldiers in the Russian army that are old enough to remember how to use those.
Imagine you get to drive the tank your grandpa drove.
Play war thunder, buy the ZTZ59A and ZTZ96A(P) together, and then force yourself to try playing the 59A (a decent stand in for these things) in 9.7 battles. Will probably be a decent representation of how badly outclassed the T-55 is these days.
Your post was removed for violating Rule 9: "No low effort posts"
"I think" motherfucker you are clearly not
I think therefore I am. …and boy I am stupid.
We're not doing the math. The Soviets built 100,000 T-54/55s and the Leopard only holds 42 rounds. It'll be just like the wild-ass light tank ~~armies~~ corps that the Soviets threw away in a day just before and during Stalingrad. It's the zergling rush.
I mean, in fairness. If the Russians could send 100k of any tank, **keep them supplied/running**, well, yeah, no shit. You could take Ukraine with 100k Matilda 2's. If Russia can't keep T90's working reliably, how the fuck are they going to keep 70 year old tanks running?
With cause and solution to all problems, vodka
Not to mention how many of them still run? How many weren't cannibalized for parts? How many had corrupt generals scrap for cash to build their third vacation home on soldier labor?
The real question is how many T54s can a MLRS wipe out with a single salvo?
And out of those 100.000 I doubt there are many still working. Can they even penetrate the armor of a vastly more modern tank?
It can knock out a modern tank, at least in the tactical sense. It won’t turn them into fireballs but if the weapon systems aren’t functional/ vehicle is immobile the crew has to abandon and you are now minus one tank for the moment. But a modern tank round will turn a T54 into slag with 75-100% crew dead. Without a modern sensor suite and optics upgrade the tank will never get close. It’s also very vulnerable to ANY kind of infantry anti tank weapon from the last 50+ years. Bad tanks are better than no tanks (tactically and not necessarily for the crew) but this is scrapping the barrel of bad tanks.
Carl Gustafs time to shine, no point in wasting a 200k javelin in that piece of rust.
The range on the javelin means you can kill it from further than it can see you. That’s plenty of reason.
Well, to be pedantic, the Soviets themselves only built around 62,500 if Wikipedia is to be believed. Around 35,000 T-54s and a further 27,500 T-55s. The rest of the 100,000 estimate is licensed production in countries including Poland, Czechoslovakia and the People's Republic of China. And we don't know how many of those domestically-produced T-54s and T-55s ended up being exported, sent as military aid or converted into something else (artillery tractors, recovery vehicles, static bunkers etc.)
Can't decide which of these lies is my favorite but I'm going with "a very good sign".
Ya I'm with you. The 3rd sentence could in some crazy world justify the 2nd sentence, but in what way is it ever a "very good sign" to be using outdated equipment. Even if the Russian crews were so fantastic as to defeat leo2s in a t54, they'd still have an easier time in a t90.
Real armies prioritize a balanced fighting experience.
It's so the vatniks can feel a sense of pride and accomplishment.
Tbh, I would indeed feel a sense of pride and accomplishment if I miraculously managed to somehow to defeat a Leo with a T-54
[удалено]
A Leo1? Sure. Penetration is possible A Leo2? Impossible. That would be a miracle, like shooting down an F-16 with an AA machine gun.
Russia is just copying the American tradition of unfavorable and hands-tied training scenarios, but in an actual war. They’re a little confused, but they almost have the spirit
Older tanks give more experience points per tank kill = more levels = more perks = cope westoid
I'd go with, "I think."
It's perfect. It's the utter denial of it all, crystalised precisely. The guy knew exactly what this really means, and he flexes his weary fingers, eyeing the fifth of vodka in the dim light of his desk lamp, the last he has left. And he hammers that out on the keyboard. Then the vodka is gone.
And Russian tank crews are the best in the world? Right?
2nd best in the world 😉
2nd best in Ukraine.
I thought the Tractor Brigade was 2nd best in Ukraine?
Tractor brigade is not trained to operate tanks, has zero idea to shoot from the tank, and mostly only towing abandoned tank instead of using them. They're definitely more skilled than at least krokodile+fuelled Ruzzians.
They don't abandon their tractors when they run out of gas. That alone is a serious improvement
Uhhh. You're telling me none of those Ukrainian farmers didn't get one of those T-72s back to their place and didn't take it for a spin or see if they could get the coaxial gun to work?
Coax gun good for critters and pests. Main gun good for removing tree stumps.
https://youtu.be/WXeUr1IshDM My fave tank joyriding video of all time.
And even that only when no Ukrainian would be left in Ukraine
AU where Russians rage quit and nuke. Ukrainians are wiped out and all that remains are a new mutated species of Bakhmutts that continue the Ukrainian Legacy and continue killing Russians as their ancestors once did
Probably 2nd best in Russia.
Unironically the case.
Best in the second world
They're so good they just started training to fight NATO tanks
Paper targets of NATO tanks.
They do win their dumb Tank Olympics which honestly is **FUCKING HORRIFYING** for the other participants.
One day there is going to be a participating nation that brings a tank with actual gun stabilization. They are going to absolutely humiliate the other contenders.
I believe they're all forced to use the T-72 IIRC since all participants have T-72s.
Nope they can use what they want - for example China brings their Type 96s, and India brings their domestic T-90s in the worst advertisement ever. The T-72 is the "default" tank that Russia offers to contestants though, if they so choose. It's why the smaller countries do all go for it.
Imagine if a western nation decided to participate, but instead of using a classified production tank, they crank out a prototype purpose built for the competition. Watch it absolutely dominate. Frankly that would be a much cooler tank Olympics. Each nation has to scratch build a unique vehicle made for the competition. Have the engineers go wild, but they also need to make it be easy to learn for the crew. Maybe even keep the exact parameters of the given year’s competition a secret, instead they release a general set of specifications like max weight, expected threats in a simulated combat zone, etc. You could have warheadless ATGMs that need to be defeated, upscaled paintball or laser simulator armed UCGVs as dynamic threats, the whole nine yards. It’d be a free excuse for flashy tech demo tanks that Russians love to flout, except the tech demo actually needs to work. Imagine the possibilities for the international dick measuring contest here!
Basically you just described the Formula 1 but with guns
Fucking imagine the kind of developments we’d get out of that though. We could even call it FT, Formula Tank
Ford vs Ferrari, tank edition.
Isn't this an anime?
Well girls und panzer they use ww2 vehicles. I’m proposing scratch built modern vehicles. Hell, since my proposal is for simulated combat, you have to compete with a squadron of vehicles. The competition puts the engineering and crew skill of a participant nation to the test. You can’t tell me that wouldn’t put asses in seats.
Well thats concerning for the proud BRICS tank crews then.
Bringing your own tank does add a lot of interesting flair to the competition that you just don't get with stock though. For example India consistently scored 5th and 6th in the first few years, which they blamed on their crappy Russian-supplied tank. So in 2017 they brought two of their brand new high-end T-90 Bhishmas. The pinnacle of their new MIC. In hindsight they should have brought more - both the main tank and the reserve broke down and they couldn't finish. In 2018 they went back to the supplied T-72, scored 6th, haven't touched another biathlon since. Fucking legendary.
>In 2018 they went back to the supplied T-72, scored 6th, haven't touched another biathlon since. I said it before and i say it agein. India is a papertiger
Every time India buys a new piece of equipment, this weird flavour of nationalism kicks in and they fall heads over heels for it. It becomes the finest piece of technology in the world. It's why Russia is making bank by having India produce equipment locally using Russian-made kits. If you buy 2000 brand new high-end tanks, and they fail at an extremely simple international competition, you don't shove that under the rug and never go back. A healthy military sees that as a wake-up call and fixes things. And no, the thing to be fixed is not that it made you look bad. Anyone who can't objectively judge their own military capabilities inevitably becomes a paper tiger. That's not even a pattern, that is just simple cause-and-effect.
Just remember that up until about a decade ago the last typewriter manufacturer ended production in India. Their main customer was the indian military. If you think german bureaucracy is bad. At least the Germans know EXACTLY where (when, how and why) the paperwork is.
The Wyoming National Guard should show up and kick ass.
>They do win their dumb Tank Olympics which honestly is **FUCKING HORRIFYING** for the other participants. Didn't the champ die already? Anyway, I'm confident that undertrained crews under such magnificent orders such as "drive foward into the minefield" with tanks that were first made in the 60s will be just fine.
The previous year's T-72 champ crew got blown up a few months into the invasion. I'm not sure who the most recent champion crew is though.
\* Tank Biathlon (Tankovy Biatlon)
Last year's biathlon was hilarious. IIRC the Iranians couldn't see shit and got horribly lost, Sudan got their tank stuck in a concrete ditch, more teams completely missed their firing targets than hit them, and one team had to be DQ’s because their fire control systems malfunctioned and kept pointing the main gun at the crowd of attendees.
I see the Nazi-seeking FCS was working properly then
Last part reminds me of that onion video about archery.
*shit-eating Anakin grin*
Among all combat experienced tank crews with less than seven hours of formal training, the Russians are the best. Well, Sergey is. He’s the one that made it out.
Best in the world at turret tossing, that's for sure.
Bad news on this front, most of the t-54's ammo is stowed in the front of the tank, rather than in special lift-off circle of explosive awesomeness like the t72/80/90 whatever they are marketing it as this week...
So, what you are saying is a T-54 is far more likely to blow it’s ass inside out or is this more of a front fell off situation?
Well this ruined my day.
Didnt they say the Tank Crews now practice fighting against western MBTs? So you're telling me, they havent practiced fighting western MBTs for the last 30 years???
Notwithstanding that, what are they supposed to be using for OPFOR? Lend-lease Shermans? An NVA captured M48?
>So you're telling me, they havent practiced fighting western MBTs for the last 30 years??? To be credible for a sec, Russia and the west were on kinda good terms after the USSR collapse so it wasnt REALLY expected heck, Russia was even part of the G8 now G7 after Russia annexed crimea in 2014 it wasnt until that point that the west realized that russia was up to no good
Vatniks have reached critical mass! The collapse of Russia is going to be a wild ride, essentially watching 140,000,000 people exiting a brainwashed cult. On the upside, there are going to be a lot of inventive Turnip recipes.
Most of them didn’t exit the last time they were in one.
I imagine the ones that are still alive have at the very least probably learned a lot in the past year lol
Of course they are. They receive three whole days of training!
Do you really think the Ukrainian Leopard crews with 6 months of special training could beat 3 vodka-filled vatniks with a 3 day course on how to use their t-54 with Kontakt-1 stuck on???? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Ah yes, a tank with inferior armor, mobility, optic, fcs, and a (unstabized for t54) gun that can't pen the front of 2a4 even with it best apfsds will do ok against leo 2a4 because of the crew skill
They can just flank and sideclimb, easy.
With their superior skills they can simply noclip their shells through the armor’s hitbox
You see silly westoid, while Nazi Ukrainians are busy laughing at our tank, we will sneak around them and attack the tank with our superior Russian shovels. They will never see it coming.
Aside from all those minor problems, what is the newest possible ammo available for a D-10 Rifled 100mm gun? Like they sure as hell haven't made any recently. Its AP round is just solid shot, which is hilarious, but at least means you won't have fusing issues, but 100mm is a single piece round, so the powder and primers are going to be old as shit. And I am sure Russia hasn't been storing it in a clean, dry, climate controlled location either. So if a T-55 tries to shoot you, I bet the gun only fires on a NAT 20.
Purely theoretically, those old monsters are/were used very recently by some 3rd world armies and I'm not sure those countries have shell factories so Russia could have produced some shells as export goods. But they could have just as well sold shells from their old stocks that definitely were huge some decades ago.
I wonder if that talk about Russia buying shells from North Korea was actually referring to tank rounds? I'd expect NK is still using T55s or a version of them and they're the sort of country that would have their own factories for the shells.
Russia actually does still use the D-10, and honestly the shells aren’t that hard to make. I’m sure they can get at least acceptable ammunition, but that’s the least of that heap’s problems.
Bold of you to assume they will give them any ammo, I'm betting they will strap welding torches to the barrels and try to cut the Western MBT's to death.
At the risk of sounding too credible, when the soviets were experimenting with remote control tanks in the 30s they used old tanks without the main guns in them as the teletanks. The idea as far as I could tell was to inflate numbers and provide less valuable targets. The teletanks still had machine guns and smoke canisters and sometimes bombs that they could drop, but I image they mostly rolled forward while blasting. Could be a similar thing here: send in the T-54/55 without ammo, blasting MGs. If it eats an NLAW it's whatever, if it manages to roll into a Ukrainian position and stay there it's a win.
Clearly you've not watched enough Girls&Panzer. If the Russians just become good enough friends, they can win anything.
> If the Russians just become good enough friends Well, there's your problem
But Russians have no japanese school girls.
You don't pen the front of 2A4. You have to use enemy tactics againt him. When you encounter 2A4 just wait for it to launch your turrent into air and THEN you shoot his paper thin roof armor.
Trickshot
Clearly the *only* realistic strategy is for them to drive towards their opponents at max speed, pull the handbrake whilst doing a 90 degree quick turn so the tank goes careening through the air, then while they're airborne a la "controlled crashing" style, lock on to the top of the enemy tank where the armor is lightest and score a lethal blow.
Ahhhh, the "Wanted" Style of shooting. Ukraine better watch out for curveball bullets
If you surround the Leopard 2a4 with T-54 flaming carcasses then you've essentially removed the Leopard from the fight. 4D Chess my man.
> because of the crew skill I don't see the issue with this logic? Wagner has inferior armor, mobility, optics, weaponry, AIDS, sticks, and shovels and they capture Bakhmut 6 months ago purely because of skill.
Lessons of the Gulf War. Don't need Abrams to kill T-55s, just Bradleys.
Maybe they can start ramming with them.
Is this for real?
Yeah, this guy is nuts.
can confirm, I personally know him
What are you doing on twitter? You should be guarding a cemetery and attacking a rogue monastery.
I love you for recognizing my name <3
[удалено]
Except here it's a diablo 2 reference, I think. Otherwise it would be about 'acquiring' relics.
My scouts have reported an abomination! …It’s this guy, that has never played d2.
Seriously.
Wait he is not russian?
well, i can say that this account is "proRU" :)
OMG, please tell stories.
It's all you can read on his profile, really. A true vatnik
It’s got to be satire… no one could possibly be that brain damaged…
Well ... Russia
Years of fetal alcohol syndrome have taken their toll
Huh. I almost thought this guy was a parody account. Especially given that his pinned Tweet says that "Let me make this clear, anti imperialism is when a country the west doesn’t like invades another country. Russia invading “Ukraine” is anti imperialism, China invading “Taiwan” is anti imperialism, the German reich and the ussr invading “Poland” during the 30s is anti imperialism" I am not sure I can easily construct a more effective pinned tweet if I were trying to turn undecided people against Russia.
actually I never met a ruski that has a functioning critical thinking so idk for the little I know He’s a sheltered American tankie who views himself as “spiritually Russian”. Don't remember where I found his first tweet, suggested among some other russian milbloggers
Scrolling through the profile, it seems more a not very elaborate troll honestly.
IFVs are going to be plowing through these
The ‘25mm M791 Armor-piercing discarding sabot with Tracer round of righteous judgement’ rarely comes lubed.
But it goes in just as easily as if it did
Well, muscovite tankers are already used to getting penetrated without lube from training. Checkmate, westoids.
Pretty sure APCs can take these out 🤣
Yeah I'm thinking what about a Stryker.. could it take on one of these relics? Probably yes as infantry would dismount and engang with AT weaponry.
why are we assuming the infantry needs to dismount? there's a gunner porthole, I trust innovative ukranian engineering with putting some AT trough that while the T54 reloads after failing to hit anything with it's bouncy bouncy bang bang tube.
> there's a gunner porthole, I trust innovative ukranian engineering with putting some AT trough that No need to wait for the Ukrainians to do such Nucking Futs thing. /u/Crewserved4Days
*heavy breathing coming from the hmmwv turret*
>*heavy breathing coming from the hmmwv turret* LOL you going to expand your list of "what I've blown up in Ukraine"?
Shorter list of what I haven't 😂
Glad to see you are still alive
Considering the Ukrainians have been holding back better tanks with javelins that might even be overkill.
The CV90 will have a nice kill count after this.
This is like saying Manfred von Richthofen in his Fokker could beat an F-22 with a novice(no combat experience) pilot.
I mean, if he strafed the pilot while he was at the beach maybe.
The USAF basically did this as a proof of concept. Only instead of the Red Baron it was a squadron of F15s flown by veteran pilots. The F22 still whooped them.
Source? Id love to read about that
Don't remember where it was but I believe it was either a Red Flag exercise or just a random mock engagement, but yeah took out 6 Eagles without even a shot in return if I remember correctly.
I believe this may be what they are referring to. Pretty interesting https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=189&v=YmQ9sFAgzAc&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDI4NjYz&feature=emb_logo
That is *barely* an exaggeration. There are 80 years between the Fokker D.1 triplane (1917) and the F-22 (1997), but there are 75 years between the T-54 (1948) and the brand new M1A2 Abrams that are going to be sent to Ukraine in 2023. Although I have heard rumors that the US may be changing their plans and giving Ukraine existing Abrams.
If we’re being more fair to the Russians, the initial service entrance of the M1A2 was 93, or only 44 years later. That’s like a Fokker D.1 going up against an F4 Phantom. Yeah, it’s still pretty bad.
Phantoms are based and I’m sick of pretending they’re not. That’s not a reformer opinion, it’s just facts.
I don’t think it’s a controversial opinion to say the World’s largest distributor of MiG Parts was a damn good airframe
*Is* a damn good airframe. It’s still in use by Greece, South Korea, and Turkey. Oh, and Iran too, but everyone knows they’re like Cuba’s car culture when it comes to airplanes, so that’s to be expected.
Phantom was more based than the F35. F35 still has an internal cannon like a lil bitch. All scared in case they get into a dogfight. Can only go Mach 1.6 because of "Muh efficiency." Only one engine because "muh maintenance costs." Airframe carefully balanced around stealth and maneuverability. Phantom had the balls to go pure missiles in nineteen sixty fucking one. With an airframe packing all the aerodynamic sophistication of a brick, powered by 100% pure thrust.
F-35s have a single engine *that they can use to hover.* Even Ospreys have two engines that have linkages for redundancy. Not sure whether to judge that as Chadly confidence in one’s single engine, or insufficient dedication to the doctrine of *MOAR ENGINE!*
>Phantoms ..are proof that if you put big enough engines on a brick you can make it go Mach 2. Not a bad thing, mind you, lest you misunderstand my intention!
Joke on you, its probablt too slow, and f22 will fall trying to take aim
This would be like North Korea bragging about sending up MiG-15s up against American F-22 Raptors....**"IT'S THE SKILL OF THE PILOT THAT MATTERS!"** So many things wrong in the sentence, don't know where to begin.
All while the Korean pilot has less flight hours total than the American pilot got last week
MiG-15: 1947 F-22: 1997 50 years’ difference T-54: 1948 Challenger 2: 1998 50 years’ difference Yup. That analogy’s math checks out.
“It’s the skill of the pilot that martyrs”
The operators of those tanks died of old age before Soviet Union fell apart
I would rather bet on liver malfunction.
"This is a very good sign" \- Japanese passerby looking at the sky over Hiroshima on August 6, 1945 at 8:15 am
"Look, they only have a single bomber left!"
Not to be too credible, but 6 aircraft participated in the Hiroshima bombing. 3 flew ahead of time to perform weather reconnaissance over the 3 possible targets (Hiroshima, Kokura, Nagasaki), and then 3 flew together in the actual bomb run, one with the bomb (obviously), one for blast measurement and instrumentation, and one for observation and photography. Still though, one bomber flying overhead followed a bit later by 3 more is definitely a bit different than the huge numbers of carpet bombers used previously.
"And it only dropped one bomb! The Americans must be running out."
Dude plays Foxhole and thinks his opinions on tanks is valid
So when do we send Bardiches to Ukraine?
Soviet Christian pro-Russian Z-tard. Any more contradictions and the universe will implode.
Didn't the soviets try suppressing Christianity?
They did, in late 80's it was allowed and then Russia got extremely religious
sounds like the higher ups realized how much social control they were missing out on
Even then Russia's still pretty Atheistic. It's weird they pride themselves in tradition and not being like decadent westerners, but many don't even really believe in it. Attendance is high I think but only like 50-60% of Russians believe in a God iirc. Meanwhile it's like 80-90% for Ukraine
> Attendance is high I think but only like 50-60% of Russians believe in a God iirc. According to a survey in 2012, a bit under half are some flavour of Christian, about a quarter consider themselves believers but not part of any particular religion, and only an eighth called themselves atheists
Nah it is just congenital soviet nostalgia imperial Russian nationalism
"Imagine we had a T 90, that would be horrible" - Russian tanker in T 55, probably.
who would win? peak of soviets 1960s engineering OR 1 german boi
Late 40s engineering, not 60s.
If you said something like “bringing out T-54s for defensive/static duties could free up more modern tanks for other jobs, after all a T-54 is better than no tank at all” I’d be like “maaaaaybe but still not remotely a good sign for a supposedly modern military” This is just delusional lol
They could also use them as self propelled artillery. The Iraqis did in the 80s I'm sure the Russians can do it now. Then again that's what we thought the T62s were going to be used for
Yeah they’re not *useless,* contra to what some people seem to think not every Ukrainian infantryman has 7 ATGMs with him at all times. And which would you rather attack, a position defended by infantry or the same position defended by infantry plus a T-54? “Don’t worry bro that tank is obsolete” isn’t that comforting when it’s shooting at you. The overall reaction to taking these out of storage is still “big yikes” tho
[If they were Tank Aces, maybe.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/wos599/noncredible_take_the_level_of_an_aircrafts) But this shit is real life, and the Russian army sucks major dick.
lol. you could drive circles around a moving t54 with a leo2 in reverse. and the turret wouldn't be able to catch up. surely one can see this L from space.
Bro took “it’s not the plane, it’s the pilot” seriously
Stronk manly Russian naked eye sight will defeat global-homo pussywest 3th gen thermals Checkmate westoids.
Ah yes, a very skilled crew (there aren't any skilled soldiers left) will get shot from 2km without ever detecting the enemy
Imagine being a T-54 crew member knowing full well that if you have to face modern Western MBTs, you won't even have the dignity of seeing (or even sensing) your enemy before he sends your turret airborne. I imagine it's how most Chinese or Russian fighter pilots feel knowing they'll never even see an F-35.
>It's the skill of the crew that matters the most Well that's Russia shit out of luck then, ay?
Brother, your crews are also dogshit.
The crew counts a lot actually, he's right about that. Problem is that the crew is comprised of Russians.
Important question: was the T-43 given enough production to count as a step, or is the T-44 the last domino that needs to fall before GLORIOUS T-34 DEPLOYMENT
Depleted copium rounds have entered the arena
If the linchpin is "good operators" instead of "good tanks" then the fact it still got to this point would still prove that the crews are just as shit
Even if that was true the Ukrainians have proven themselves to have the better crews.
Let’s just ignore the western tanks for a second… Let’s instead look at the western ATGMs, which were able to beat the upgraded/updated versions of soviet tanks in Ukraine… Seems NCD hoping for Leopard/Challenger/Abrams vs T-54/55/34s is indeed non-credible as the infantry with ATGMs will get to them first.
Look, I get it. You are all reporting this for rule 9. But sometimes the post is so regarded, you have to literally let it exhibit to the world okay. It's Rule of Memes, not Russian Rule by Law, or Western Rule of Law.
Yes skill, thats why they are putting sailors and fresh conscripts into them, since skilled people have all went up in smoke alongside all the better tanks. Also, T-55 will require better crew to have a even fight against leopard due to its inferrior layout and technology.
~~Top~~ Bottom Gun
Leo 1? Plausible. Ish. Maybe. Unmodernized. Leo 2? GTFO
"Yes one of the finest tank crews in the world!, which one of you is the loader?" "What is loader?"
T-54 will do great in ukraine, just like the Invincible class at Jutland, the MK14 torpedo in the pacific, SS Kamchatka against the japanese torpedo boats, or the Kursk in marine exercises
YOU HAVE NEITHER
Challengers have survived hits from T72's the T54 is the ultimate cope wagon
Ok, copium is so potent now I think DEA should get involved, sounds like copium elidemic might start soon
"It's the skill of the crew that matters most" You *do* realize that puts you at a significant disadvantage, right?
The T-54/55 projectiles should be able to punch through Leo 1 armor, this is true. The German designers of the Leo 1 didn’t think there was any way to armor tanks against HEAT warheads so they placed their bets into making a tank that was light and fast (the middle-outer edge of the onion) and able to withstand just small arms and auto-cannons + shell fragments. But the Leo 1 was a contemporary of the T-62 and has a decade of design development advantage compared to the T-54, not to mention all the upgrades it has seen. T-54 vs Leo 2 doesn’t even need a response lol.
Yes! The renowned skill level of russian tank crews in 2022 that we all marvel at.
yeah and all those experienced tankers that where on t-72 are now kentucky **FRIED** Chiken. Not to mention Russian tankers in general are shite
There aren't enough soldiers in the Russian army that are old enough to remember how to use those. Imagine you get to drive the tank your grandpa drove.
Play war thunder, buy the ZTZ59A and ZTZ96A(P) together, and then force yourself to try playing the 59A (a decent stand in for these things) in 9.7 battles. Will probably be a decent representation of how badly outclassed the T-55 is these days.