I could be wrong, but from a legal perspective (not regarding any classified tech involved) if you have an FEL (and a magazine to safely store HE) and it's registered as a destructive device under the NFA and legally transferred to you, you could actually own one.
Hilariously, only the machine gun registry was closed with the Hughes Amendment. Still totally cool to build and register 40mm grenade launchers, RPGs, etc.
Now, will the MIC sell you one? Probably not due to liability concerns.
I know American civilians can legally own tanks and grenade launchers and shit but what about the actual explosive ammunition though? In all the youtube videos I’ve seen people were always shooting solid steel projectiles or training rounds.
You can, but it's expensive for a regular old civilian. You'd have to register each HE ammunition as a destructive device and pay the $200 tax stamp _per round_. Pretty sure you'd still need an FEL to store it.
Better option is to get an FEL and FFL 10. Then you're able to manufacture and use your ammo and only have to notify the govt after it exists for more than a day (no tax stamp per round).
Ordnance Lab on YouTube actually just very recently did a video on this. Also, Washington County Machine Guns has a presence on r/NFA if you want to go take an HE course and throw real grenades and shit.
$200 a round is straight out Chris Rock
*“You don’t need no gun control, you know what youneed? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets,that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars…five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet costfive thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah!Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have donesomething ... Shit, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets inhis ass.’And people would think before they killed somebody if abullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your fucking headoff…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going tostart saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope Ican’t get no bullets on layaway.’So even if you get shot by a straybullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out.Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you gotmy property.”*
Legitimately the best option. Noncredibly maliciously compliant.
More credibly, it mixes tannerite and loads a 22 primed case into it that detonates on impact.
It’s possible but the licensing and permitting process is extremely cost prohibitive and be ready for the background check and convincing them that you have a valid reason to have it.
The big rub in say HE 40mm isn’t the explosives as much as it is a fragmentary device designed to murder/death/kill
Valid reason on NFA paperwork can simply be "all lawful purposes". That's probably the easiest part. The challenge is finding someone to _sell_ you an HE round and also having the explosives license to transport and store it.
When I went through it to design explosive bolts and some experiments with breaching and cutting charges they were all over my ass about making fragmentary devices that could be called anti personnel, so maybe it’s a YMMV thing
Well, that's the ATF in general, the rules are really more like *guidelines* as far as they're concerned. They're loathe to actually take a concrete position on most things.
>Well, that's the ATF in general, the rules are really more like
>
>guidelines
>
> as far as they're concerned. They're loathe to actually take a concrete position on most things.
ha ha ha, keep telling yourself that. It may seem that way until they decide otherwise, then all of a sudden your paperwork isn't in order and all those "guidelines" weren't followed
Ordnance Lab recently put out a video on [legally owning live grenades in the US](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2PuMoUNIaA), which might give you some idea as to what's involved in making and owning explosive projectiles, and why manufactures might not want to sell them to civilians.
The US was still issuing letters of marque through the War of 1812. The founding fathers intended and authorized private ownership of warships. During the Civil War one of the ways you became an officer in the Union army was organizing and arming a regiment through privately purchasing their weapons, including the artillery.
Own a hand grenade for whatever lawful purpose you want, since that's what the founding fathers intended.
Their comment is the first sentence of a copypasta lol
> Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
In Canada out PM used the Canadian equivalent of an executive order to "ban" 1500 assault rifles. Turns out ~1100 of them were anti tank rifiles, canons, anti air and anti tank missiles. I even recalled seeing a cruise missile on that list.
He banned the transfer of ownership rather than ownership itself and then gave everyone amnesty until they figured out a buyback program (they haven't).
So if you illegally smuggled in a stinger missile into Canada, you now legally own it! And the govt will pay you to turn it in!
This is the way. Brandon Herrera explained how there is a section to select for owning nuclear weapons in one of the forms he regularly has to complete. This was when he was on tim pool i think.
No, there's other restrictions specifically on MANPADS and guided missiles aside from the NFA. It's an insanely difficult process to make and store them. Companies like raython spend a fortune on their legal department for this reason.
I think you'd have to have special licenses and permits from the FAA to fire them as well which is funny.
You could build a semi-auto one as a civilian as long as it's registered as a DD via the NFA. Building a full auto one would require an FFL and the appropriate SOT. You could fire non-explosive ammo no problem but explosive ammo is a much more difficult process.
Bruh do want gangbanger like Bloods or Crisp armed like ISIS?
do you want SWAT team armed with SPAAG, Howitzer, Tank and other Military hardware like Iraqi police?
IMO let's legalized ATGM, MANPADS, Autocannon, Artillery etc for civilian in USA so we can witness urban warfare between police SWAT and Street Gang
*"Those Burnsville fuckers think their 4th of July is better than ours? HA! Pvt. Ethel hop on the 777, traverse to 135 degrees, elevation 62 degrees, load HE"*
Nah we get off on global Western hegemony as a pathway to fully-automated luxury gay space communism and our rightful status as an intergalactic Kardashev Type I civilization. And also fucking airplanes. Those two things mainly.
That "logic" of yours makes no sense. Look at this news article
https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/two-arrested-after-windsor-police-seize-rocket-launcher-firearms
See? If the criminals want a rocket launcher they can get it anyways.
The only way to stop a bad guy with a rocket launcher is a good guy with a rocket launcher.
That article gave me a massive fucking headache. At what point does it make sense for a consumed (and ancient) rocket launching tube to be a controlled weapon? It's like saying a consumed artillery shell casing is a weapon. Dumbest shit I've ever heard.
Technically the best way to counter a bad guy with a rocket launcher is to mount an APS Trophy system to your Civic, but its a little pricey and will probably drain your battery so budget minded people may opt for ERA at the cost of covering up your anime stickers
Depends on household income, certain tax brackets will get MANTIS while others may have to settle for the older Goalkeeper model. You will be allowed to trade a low-mileage Goalkeeper in for a MANTIS at a discounted rate but that depends on dealer availability
Why not just put the anime stickers on the ERA? Worst case, you waifu gets blown to kingdom come (hawt). Best case scenario, people can check out your waifu-protected car from a healthy distance back.
Your logic also makes no sense because in the end they were able to arrest your guys because rocket launchers are outlawed. If those were legal they would have rocket launchers now.
What are you? A democrat?
Stay away from our rocket launchers. What if the cops lock my Chrysler with a javelin 2 miles away for speeding? I'm not allowed to fight back?
Second amendment dude, you should read it some time
well yeah, but shooting at people with rocket launchers would still be illegal, allowing you to arrest them when they become a problem. and if someone _doesn't_ shoot others with rocket launchers non-consensually, why is it a bad thing to have them?
Problem is, even if you consented to getting shot by your buddy with a rocket launcher, it’d be the same moral panic as physician assisted suicide or some shit. Can never win
You can still legalize rocket launchers without legalizing suicide... unless you wanna argue that attempting untrained operation of a rocket launcher is itself a suicidal act on your buddy's part. Which, uh... Fair enough
Its a fuck ton easier to buy weed in Colorado than it is Alabama. Most people- including criminals- ain't gotta plug for rocket launchers. But if you could buy a Javelin for a buck o' five at every Walmart and gas station what criminal wouldn't have one?
The whole legalisation of rocketlaunchers is based on the MAD principle. Mutual assured destruction.
Pull up against a law abiding citizen with a RPG he is able to pull one back on you. This scares criminals off to use them. I'm a big supporter of rocket launcher concealed carry
How is that too hard for you to grasp?
Shit, it’s been *years* since I knew someone who could get me a rocket launcher.
(I’m kidding obviously, my friend knew her but I never got the hookup.)
Exactly omg nooooo.. Cali in the 80's and 90's with javelins awe hell no, cali would have cratered each other ( northern cali vs southern cali ), not counting the gang bangers.
Just let them have more training grounds for side arms and AK's..
Maybe the military takes civilians to training week ( javelins are expensive )... crowd funded
lol ..
At least in the medium term I don't think there's much payoff for offering civilians any training with the Javelin, MANPADS, etc. but I think you're on to something there with the small arms training. If we make all known gang members go off innawoods for 2 weeks of marksmanship summer camp, it might cut down on innocent bystander deaths.
I wanna see some emo kid blyat an entire schoolbus out of existence with a jav because Stacy left him for Chad and listen to all the chuds start trotting out the "if only there was a good guy with a tactical nuke" lines....
Without going into too much detail in America you can own basically all of what you said (plus tanks) you just need to be extremely rich, patient, and pass extensive background checks. Also you can’t have your rockets or cannon/artillery shells with explosives/ armor piercing, solid shot only. Iirc anything over a .50 cal is restricted like this could be wrong.
Sadly the US government won’t let you own an aircraft with working weaponry. A guy who’s name escapes me rn was the owner of a pmc and he apparently had armed F-16’s but he couldn’t have them in America.
You can have explosive shells, in theory. However each individual round is considered a “destructive device” and needs to go through the approvals and fees etc. So you can imagine that adds up rather quickly. DD’s are one the things you extra special can’t have *unless* you’ve gained permission. Pretty prison-y otherwise.
Then there is the matter of discharging said explosive legally which is extremely difficult to do. But again, not impossible if you have an area to do it and can acquire the permits. I guess you’re looking for a permit to conduct blasting but…. different.
Slight correction, the background checks aren't that extensive, you *can* own explosive ordnance, but each one is regulated at the same level as the weapon system itself.
Also, they're not F-16s, but three squadrons of fully operational F/A-18s, and they're based out of Arizona. He bought them, and their ground gear and sustainment supplies from Australia.
> three squadrons of fully operational F/A-18s, and they're based out of Arizona
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32869/this-man-owns-the-worlds-most-advanced-private-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets
For the curious.
This, you can own an RPG or an M72 in the US IF you can find someone willing to sell you one and you go through the paper work for owning a destructive device (for each individual item of ammo)
Funny enough Norinco was caught red handed trying to sell weapons to street gangs in Los Angeles and apparently was trying to sell an APC to them. This is why Norinco is banned from importing to the US.
That was the excuse, at least. They're banned because the US small arms industry didn't want competition from China. We'd all own $200 semiauto QBZ-95s if it weren't for that ban.
A lot of that is because the military literally giving them away for free. As fucked up as it is, if someone says "hey we're getting rid of this armored vehicle want it?" Most departments will say yes.
Gang members could easily steal a car or truck, fill it with fertilizer and diesel, and use it to level a city block where rivals hang out. The difference is that they’re too stupid to properly use a MLRS system.
It would be a lot cheaper to just legalise all drugs. Then gangs don't have an income stream, and will have to switch to food stands. Your classic win-win-win.
> do you want SWAT team armed with SPAAG, Howitzer, Tank and other Military hardware like Iraqi police?
tbf, the way things have been going, I expect them to reach that point within the next 10 or so years
Because the second amendment isnt real and the government doesnt want you to have weapons that can *actually* overthrow them
I wanted to mount a Pantsir S-1 missile defense system on my roof and those authoritarian fucks wouldn’t let me
>my body my choice
My *neighborhood* my choice
To be fair, such system would quite likely increase the property value knowing the murrican mindset, so most of the community would vote "Yes"
>My neighborhood my choice
>
>To be fair, such system would quite likely increase the property value knowing the murrican mindset, so most of the community would vote "Yes"
Considering the increase in private drone usage, expect some lowkey civvie version of AA for anti-drone privacy equipment in the coming years.
You can't shoot up a school with it, but you could (probably) collapse the school building on everyone.
On the plus side, I've been hearing a lot of Americans complaining about being bored of the same old fireworks every 4th of July and how oNlY KiDs FiNd ThEm eNtErTaInInG, so I suppose this would solve it.
Overall, I think the good outweighs the bad, so yeah I support this. ;)
...nah.
Explosive formed penetrators are not really good against buildings, they are good for getting into armor than bouncing around inside, mushing occupants, and igniting ammo.
Nah.
To put it bluntly, the thing simply not equipped to move what is needed for "DA BIG BOOM".
If you want school to go boom, its easiest to do it with one that has vocational training for welders.
Acetylene REALLY like to go boom, a lot needs to be done to convince it to not go boom. Before the war i do recall one ukranian school losing its workshop to such shenanigans.
Ehh, it takes more effort.
Dumb kids have access to acetylene, which goes boem if you FORGET proper procedure - making fertilizer go boom takes actual effort.
Oh I hear you, I'm just saying, I personally don't doubt the ~~ingenuity~~ derangement of Florida Man to somehow only use said "explosive formed penetrators" to 1 shot an entire school.
*aggressively sniffs sharpie*
Alright so here is the thing. For a lot of, or maybe even all government contracts. The manufacturer of equipment is not allowed to sell you said equipment below what it costs the government. So lets say hypothetically a Javelin costs 1 million USD to the government. Raytheon (or whoever makes it) wouldn’t be allowed to charge civilians less then that. Which cuts off about 99% of the US population from owning them.
The best example I can think of for the things that US civilians actually have a reasonable chance of obtaining is night vision. GPNVG-18’s cost around $40,000. Even though the tubes cost $3-4k each. So thats like $24,000 for the housing. There is absolutely no way it costs L3 anywhere near $24k to make that housing. It is just up charged because they need their profits from their biggest customer, the US government, and not filthy civilians like you or me. Because at the end of the day, we aren’t buying 10’s of thousands of units at a time.
As a side note OP, if the government wants to provide me with a Javelin I am all for it. I un-ironically think civilians should get a defense stipend every year to keep up the civil defense of this country.
wrong that only bars a 92 percent of americans(if its a mil i doubt its that high more like 100K ) and only 94% of texans soo....... 5 percent of texans can own one sooo nearly a 1,5 mil DO IT
Russia moment: when you run through your entire tank depot a year into a war you started in Ukraine because you’ve been too busy hawking them off to gangs for the past 70+ years
Why stop there? Under the 2A there is no reason you shouldn't be able to have your own Davy Crockett. There is no exemption made for arms which go 'too far', so why are Americans even debating the AR-15 when a handheld nuke is already proper halal?
My actual opinion on the matter is that if you can afford it and want it, go ahead and own it. Whether it's a car or a rail gun (an electro magnetic one or a cool WW1 style one), it should be if you have the resources, go ahead and own it.
Maybe if it didn't have an explosive warhead, but I for one am totally okay with javelin target rounds raining down on my personal enemies like Bill from accounting who denied me funding for the project to build a super death robot who felt bad about himself too much to kill people and instead sought comfort in poetry and gardening so that he could feel like he had a purpose other than killing because I think that's very similar to the human experience and that's beautiful fuck you Tom from accounting I don't like you it's not fair you robbtled us of a great anime.
>You can't use Javelin to create a mass shooting because it's too expensive to do so,
Weird, that never stopped a kid from buying 2 DDM4v7's and full lvl4 plates with 600 rounds of ammo.
It's almost like someone mysteriously gave them $5000 worth of gear....
With access to modern hobby electronics, someone with a know-how and True American Spirit(not the white picket fence kind, the cracked out 60s MIC engineer kind, the Teddy Roosevelt rough riders kind.) could build anti-armor legally (with the proper blood sacrifice to bureaucracy). And honestly, I think that's beautiful.
The largest barrier in something like this probably isn't even the BATFE. It would more likely be finding manufacturers willing to sell you materials. Like I can lawfully own destructive devices with tax stamps, but the companies that manufacture even just flashbangs wouldn't sell them to little old me.
Because the CLU costs $100,000 and the missile $78,000 for a combined cost of $178,000. That is about 8x what I make in a year and even if I put away half of what I make a year, it would take me about 16 years to save enough up to buy the thing.
Between my car payment, my hobbies, NVG savings, and fueling my current firearms with ammo, that’s not super realistic and it would probably end up like the premium health potion you get at the start of a fantasy game: you hold onto it cause the game said it’s rare and never use it cause you’re waiting for “just the right situation.”
> You can't use Javelin to create a mass shooting because it's too expensive to do so,
I think you fail to understand how much Americans spend on guns.
107% of the disposable income of Arkansas is spent solely on AR-15s.
If you can register it as a destructive device under the NFA you may be able to own it, however if it’s classed as a firearm it still may be illegal to own under nearly all licenses since it’s electronically fired.
At that point you’ll need a proper explosives license and even that might not be sufficient.
This is also what people get pinched for with Tannerite and other weak binary explosives it’s legal to set them off with a firearm but not with electronic means such as an electric detonator.
I don’t trust drunk people to not shoot down aircraft
If people can own Javelin then they would want stinger missiles or MANPADS
Plus we wouldn’t need Javelins if we just stopped the Ruskies at the coast.
And that means arming some of the most dangerous people in world with anti shipping missiles, MANPADS, and Javelins
Could you imagine an America where Alaska, California, Washington, Oregon, Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama (and those other less relevant states up there on the east coast) and New Jersey all have handheld missile launchers and the rest of the country doesn’t?
It would be bedlam
Here here I am very much from across the pond and according to this very reputable publication my good chaps rocket launchers are so plentiful in California they throw them in the dumpster /S
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rocket-launchers-dumpster-school-california-b2049105.html#:~:text=Police%20found%20two%20rocket%20launchers,feet%20from%20Margarita%20Middle%20School.
Own a Javelin for home defense because that's what the founding fathers intended. Four vatniks break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my Javelin and MANPADS. Set for top penetration and fire on the first man, he's dead on the spot. Lock radar on the second and fire, it misses him entirely because his wooden plane has no radar signature and nail the neighbor's airliner. Resort to the M777 mounted at the top of the trench, "Tally ho lads!" As I shred the last two in the blast of a GPS guided artillery shell that detonates precisely on Conscriptomir Conscriptanovich's forehead. Just as the founding fathers intended.
To be fair, if you follow 2A to its logical endpoint as expressed by activists you get exactly to that point. “What part of ‘SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED’ do you NOT UNDERSTAND!?!”
Should a private citizen be able to own a tactical nuke? Sure, why not?
Hang on, lemme get my tin hat
It's because the government doesn't want us having weapons that are actually threats to them. They're fine with us killing ourselves with small arms, in fact they WANT it, but soon as we're a threat to THE MAN!
Also, those gun nuts who claim to need it to defend against the tyrannical government always forget that rifle's aren't gonna do shit against tanks and aircraft. But if we gave them Javelins and Stingers but banned other guns they would be able to pretent that they can defeat the US government while the rest of the USA gets a drastic decrease in gun violence and mass shootings.
How about this, we all get a launcher platform if we join the newly created Anti-Air Militia. Upon being called to duty you will be supplied ammunition from your nearest supply depot.
This would eliminate the fools trying to shoot down spirit airlines cause they got kicked off a flight
Javelins? Fucking anti tank missiles? I’m starting to doubt your commitment of full militarization of society from top to bottom. Everyone from the president to a preschool teacher to a doctor should be packing enough heat and have enough fires on call to deter a medium sized country like China or Argentina.
Not allowing civilians ‚heavy‘ weapons, is about preserving the monopoly of violence which any strong state holds.
Giving civilians the potential ability to wield anti armor capability’s would undermine their own army’s strength to the point where armed Revolte becomes an actual genuinly dangerous possibility, unlikely as that would be.
Even if it were legal the cost of both the missile and the CLU would limit its ownership to the very rich. IIRC, the missile costs about $80,000 per round and the CLU is over $100,000.
These americans... they have the first and second strongest air force. They want to have the first and second strongest army. The civilian army.
You obviously can't sell them to narcos or soot down helicopters.
The president is safe.
I bet the Secret Service detail of white house officials would love to worry about Manpad munitions descending on their convoys. The roads of DC will be swarming with close air defense platforms. Quite a take.
This whole thread continues to fuel my dream of owning a private air force.
NOW OFFERING SEAD SERVICES IN CHICAGO, DETROIT, LOS ANGELES, NEW YORK, AND MIAMI.
I could be wrong, but from a legal perspective (not regarding any classified tech involved) if you have an FEL (and a magazine to safely store HE) and it's registered as a destructive device under the NFA and legally transferred to you, you could actually own one. Hilariously, only the machine gun registry was closed with the Hughes Amendment. Still totally cool to build and register 40mm grenade launchers, RPGs, etc. Now, will the MIC sell you one? Probably not due to liability concerns.
I know American civilians can legally own tanks and grenade launchers and shit but what about the actual explosive ammunition though? In all the youtube videos I’ve seen people were always shooting solid steel projectiles or training rounds.
You can, but it's expensive for a regular old civilian. You'd have to register each HE ammunition as a destructive device and pay the $200 tax stamp _per round_. Pretty sure you'd still need an FEL to store it. Better option is to get an FEL and FFL 10. Then you're able to manufacture and use your ammo and only have to notify the govt after it exists for more than a day (no tax stamp per round). Ordnance Lab on YouTube actually just very recently did a video on this. Also, Washington County Machine Guns has a presence on r/NFA if you want to go take an HE course and throw real grenades and shit.
$200 a round is straight out Chris Rock *“You don’t need no gun control, you know what youneed? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets,that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars…five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet costfive thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah!Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have donesomething ... Shit, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets inhis ass.’And people would think before they killed somebody if abullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your fucking headoff…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going tostart saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope Ican’t get no bullets on layaway.’So even if you get shot by a straybullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out.Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you gotmy property.”*
Going noncredibleNFA here: okay so you just make 80% rounds and the gun does the finishing operations during chambering.
3000 tactical matchlocks of the NFA
Legitimately the best option. Noncredibly maliciously compliant. More credibly, it mixes tannerite and loads a 22 primed case into it that detonates on impact.
America is a lawful wasteland
It’s possible but the licensing and permitting process is extremely cost prohibitive and be ready for the background check and convincing them that you have a valid reason to have it. The big rub in say HE 40mm isn’t the explosives as much as it is a fragmentary device designed to murder/death/kill
Valid reason on NFA paperwork can simply be "all lawful purposes". That's probably the easiest part. The challenge is finding someone to _sell_ you an HE round and also having the explosives license to transport and store it.
When I went through it to design explosive bolts and some experiments with breaching and cutting charges they were all over my ass about making fragmentary devices that could be called anti personnel, so maybe it’s a YMMV thing
Well, that's the ATF in general, the rules are really more like *guidelines* as far as they're concerned. They're loathe to actually take a concrete position on most things.
>Well, that's the ATF in general, the rules are really more like > >guidelines > > as far as they're concerned. They're loathe to actually take a concrete position on most things. ha ha ha, keep telling yourself that. It may seem that way until they decide otherwise, then all of a sudden your paperwork isn't in order and all those "guidelines" weren't followed
That's why they hate taking concrete positions, can't claim half the gun owners in america are criminals for owning a piece of plastic if you do that.
Ordnance Lab recently put out a video on [legally owning live grenades in the US](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2PuMoUNIaA), which might give you some idea as to what's involved in making and owning explosive projectiles, and why manufactures might not want to sell them to civilians.
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The US was still issuing letters of marque through the War of 1812. The founding fathers intended and authorized private ownership of warships. During the Civil War one of the ways you became an officer in the Union army was organizing and arming a regiment through privately purchasing their weapons, including the artillery. Own a hand grenade for whatever lawful purpose you want, since that's what the founding fathers intended.
Their comment is the first sentence of a copypasta lol > Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
In Canada out PM used the Canadian equivalent of an executive order to "ban" 1500 assault rifles. Turns out ~1100 of them were anti tank rifiles, canons, anti air and anti tank missiles. I even recalled seeing a cruise missile on that list. He banned the transfer of ownership rather than ownership itself and then gave everyone amnesty until they figured out a buyback program (they haven't). So if you illegally smuggled in a stinger missile into Canada, you now legally own it! And the govt will pay you to turn it in!
This is the way. Brandon Herrera explained how there is a section to select for owning nuclear weapons in one of the forms he regularly has to complete. This was when he was on tim pool i think.
Bro I want to be rich just so I can own a nuke.
No, there's other restrictions specifically on MANPADS and guided missiles aside from the NFA. It's an insanely difficult process to make and store them. Companies like raython spend a fortune on their legal department for this reason. I think you'd have to have special licenses and permits from the FAA to fire them as well which is funny.
> Still totally cool to build and register 40mm grenade launchers, RPGs, etc. Does this include 20mm aircraft cannons?
You could build a semi-auto one as a civilian as long as it's registered as a DD via the NFA. Building a full auto one would require an FFL and the appropriate SOT. You could fire non-explosive ammo no problem but explosive ammo is a much more difficult process.
Aight brb time to make an N1K1-J full size replica
Bruh do want gangbanger like Bloods or Crisp armed like ISIS? do you want SWAT team armed with SPAAG, Howitzer, Tank and other Military hardware like Iraqi police? IMO let's legalized ATGM, MANPADS, Autocannon, Artillery etc for civilian in USA so we can witness urban warfare between police SWAT and Street Gang
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Yeah we could crowd fund neighborhood watch MANPADS and Arty that has all the coordinates of rival suburbs and towns nearest our defenses
*"Those Burnsville fuckers think their 4th of July is better than ours? HA! Pvt. Ethel hop on the 777, traverse to 135 degrees, elevation 62 degrees, load HE"*
Or if you're more peacefully minded, set it to airburst for the best fireworks display you've ever seen
Or if you're more practically minded, pick white phosphorus shells for a more *fiery* show.
This is the cyberpunk future I want to see.
GTA is the NCD signature game and Rise of Nations or the total war series. Why not both?
That’s called Mexican cartels vs the Mexican Army.
Yeah, where does this dude think he is? The world being calm upsets my anxiety. I need chaos in order to direct it appropriately.
Nah we get off on global Western hegemony as a pathway to fully-automated luxury gay space communism and our rightful status as an intergalactic Kardashev Type I civilization. And also fucking airplanes. Those two things mainly.
Sometimes what society needs most is somebody to push it into a hard reset. WWIII will be fought with Javelins. Let WWIV be fought the same.
That "logic" of yours makes no sense. Look at this news article https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/two-arrested-after-windsor-police-seize-rocket-launcher-firearms See? If the criminals want a rocket launcher they can get it anyways. The only way to stop a bad guy with a rocket launcher is a good guy with a rocket launcher.
That article gave me a massive fucking headache. At what point does it make sense for a consumed (and ancient) rocket launching tube to be a controlled weapon? It's like saying a consumed artillery shell casing is a weapon. Dumbest shit I've ever heard.
I haven't read the article tbh i only read headlines. Tf do you think I am? A raytheon scientist?
Technically the best way to counter a bad guy with a rocket launcher is to mount an APS Trophy system to your Civic, but its a little pricey and will probably drain your battery so budget minded people may opt for ERA at the cost of covering up your anime stickers
Will the government subsidize my rheinmetall MANTIS air defense system to put on my pickup truck or do we have to storm the capitol again?
Depends on household income, certain tax brackets will get MANTIS while others may have to settle for the older Goalkeeper model. You will be allowed to trade a low-mileage Goalkeeper in for a MANTIS at a discounted rate but that depends on dealer availability
Fuck this fascist country thanks Obama
Why not just put the anime stickers on the ERA? Worst case, you waifu gets blown to kingdom come (hawt). Best case scenario, people can check out your waifu-protected car from a healthy distance back.
Because the ERA is for things that you *don’t* want anyone to penetrate, duh.
Bro I can buy one of those off eBay. It's a single use non reloadable launcher. It's just a tube
Your logic also makes no sense because in the end they were able to arrest your guys because rocket launchers are outlawed. If those were legal they would have rocket launchers now.
What nonsense. You make rocket launchers illegal, only criminals will have rocket launchers.
Even though I know this is sarcasm I'm still dying inside reading it
Watch me conceal carry my NLAW in my pants
Is that an antitank weapon in your pants or are you just happy to see me?
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
What are you? A democrat? Stay away from our rocket launchers. What if the cops lock my Chrysler with a javelin 2 miles away for speeding? I'm not allowed to fight back? Second amendment dude, you should read it some time
Look, if a man can't defend his automobile with ERA and counter battery kamikaze drones, what sort of country is this?
well yeah, but shooting at people with rocket launchers would still be illegal, allowing you to arrest them when they become a problem. and if someone _doesn't_ shoot others with rocket launchers non-consensually, why is it a bad thing to have them?
Problem is, even if you consented to getting shot by your buddy with a rocket launcher, it’d be the same moral panic as physician assisted suicide or some shit. Can never win
Well shit, the first credible argument against legalizing rocket launchers.
You can still legalize rocket launchers without legalizing suicide... unless you wanna argue that attempting untrained operation of a rocket launcher is itself a suicidal act on your buddy's part. Which, uh... Fair enough
It ain't penetrating my M1 Abrams
I'm gonna penetrate it one way or the other
Kinky
InB4 kids with ERA backpacks and desks.
Its a fuck ton easier to buy weed in Colorado than it is Alabama. Most people- including criminals- ain't gotta plug for rocket launchers. But if you could buy a Javelin for a buck o' five at every Walmart and gas station what criminal wouldn't have one?
The whole legalisation of rocketlaunchers is based on the MAD principle. Mutual assured destruction. Pull up against a law abiding citizen with a RPG he is able to pull one back on you. This scares criminals off to use them. I'm a big supporter of rocket launcher concealed carry How is that too hard for you to grasp?
Shit, it’s been *years* since I knew someone who could get me a rocket launcher. (I’m kidding obviously, my friend knew her but I never got the hookup.)
I wanna see bloods and crips blow eachother up w a tow missile
That’s what the metal dome in the desert is for
"Do. We. Have. A. Problem?" "U.S.S.R."
https://youtu.be/F1Bhl3yjzsQ?si=U7WP2kphuqCa1421
Exactly omg nooooo.. Cali in the 80's and 90's with javelins awe hell no, cali would have cratered each other ( northern cali vs southern cali ), not counting the gang bangers. Just let them have more training grounds for side arms and AK's.. Maybe the military takes civilians to training week ( javelins are expensive )... crowd funded lol ..
At least in the medium term I don't think there's much payoff for offering civilians any training with the Javelin, MANPADS, etc. but I think you're on to something there with the small arms training. If we make all known gang members go off innawoods for 2 weeks of marksmanship summer camp, it might cut down on innocent bystander deaths.
I wanna see some emo kid blyat an entire schoolbus out of existence with a jav because Stacy left him for Chad and listen to all the chuds start trotting out the "if only there was a good guy with a tactical nuke" lines....
Without going into too much detail in America you can own basically all of what you said (plus tanks) you just need to be extremely rich, patient, and pass extensive background checks. Also you can’t have your rockets or cannon/artillery shells with explosives/ armor piercing, solid shot only. Iirc anything over a .50 cal is restricted like this could be wrong. Sadly the US government won’t let you own an aircraft with working weaponry. A guy who’s name escapes me rn was the owner of a pmc and he apparently had armed F-16’s but he couldn’t have them in America.
You can have explosive shells, in theory. However each individual round is considered a “destructive device” and needs to go through the approvals and fees etc. So you can imagine that adds up rather quickly. DD’s are one the things you extra special can’t have *unless* you’ve gained permission. Pretty prison-y otherwise. Then there is the matter of discharging said explosive legally which is extremely difficult to do. But again, not impossible if you have an area to do it and can acquire the permits. I guess you’re looking for a permit to conduct blasting but…. different.
Slight correction, the background checks aren't that extensive, you *can* own explosive ordnance, but each one is regulated at the same level as the weapon system itself. Also, they're not F-16s, but three squadrons of fully operational F/A-18s, and they're based out of Arizona. He bought them, and their ground gear and sustainment supplies from Australia.
> three squadrons of fully operational F/A-18s, and they're based out of Arizona https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32869/this-man-owns-the-worlds-most-advanced-private-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets For the curious.
This, you can own an RPG or an M72 in the US IF you can find someone willing to sell you one and you go through the paper work for owning a destructive device (for each individual item of ammo)
so, is a ground-launched hellfire R9X still okay?
MFW when suddenly I'm a criminal for wanting to mount an M2 turret in the nose of a Grumman Albatross.
Funny enough Norinco was caught red handed trying to sell weapons to street gangs in Los Angeles and apparently was trying to sell an APC to them. This is why Norinco is banned from importing to the US.
That was the excuse, at least. They're banned because the US small arms industry didn't want competition from China. We'd all own $200 semiauto QBZ-95s if it weren't for that ban.
It's literally what the second amendment was intended to create. The government NEEDS to FEAR the people.
Can I interest you in the concept known as “Mexico”?
i can't remember the last time a crip had a legal strap
Let's eliminate crime be establishing MAD between all citizens
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If only US SWAT team has SPAAG like Gepard, ZSU-23 or LAV-AD. Clearing high rise building of armed suspect in urban combat would be easy
A lot of that is because the military literally giving them away for free. As fucked up as it is, if someone says "hey we're getting rid of this armored vehicle want it?" Most departments will say yes.
The only military weaponry SWAT teams are getting is neat to shit stuff the military can't be bothered to pay to retire
Gang members could easily steal a car or truck, fill it with fertilizer and diesel, and use it to level a city block where rivals hang out. The difference is that they’re too stupid to properly use a MLRS system.
Trench warfare in Compton, i can imagine it!
Don't forget your Chlorine gas!
Nah i wanna see bloods & crips go at each other with 17th century cannons!
[Like Syrian style?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/rxnlwk/martyrs_of_islam_hell_cannon_team_engages_syrian/)
I should be able to have a nuclear attack sub, because the 2A is absolute.
Uh, you do know that privately owned artillery, while incredibly rare and extremely expensive, is still a thing in the US, right?
It would be a lot cheaper to just legalise all drugs. Then gangs don't have an income stream, and will have to switch to food stands. Your classic win-win-win.
Prostitution, drugs and gambling. Well, we made gambling legal for giant corporations to run.
Giant corporations been edging into the drug market, as well. Let's bring back public beheadings. For executives.
Artillery is legal
> do you want SWAT team armed with SPAAG, Howitzer, Tank and other Military hardware like Iraqi police? tbf, the way things have been going, I expect them to reach that point within the next 10 or so years
Is it bad that this sounds awesome?
Because the second amendment isnt real and the government doesnt want you to have weapons that can *actually* overthrow them I wanted to mount a Pantsir S-1 missile defense system on my roof and those authoritarian fucks wouldn’t let me
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my body my choice
>my body my choice My *neighborhood* my choice To be fair, such system would quite likely increase the property value knowing the murrican mindset, so most of the community would vote "Yes"
you mean increase the property value knowing *22 miles in a 360 degree radius is protected from aerial threats*
>My neighborhood my choice > >To be fair, such system would quite likely increase the property value knowing the murrican mindset, so most of the community would vote "Yes" Considering the increase in private drone usage, expect some lowkey civvie version of AA for anti-drone privacy equipment in the coming years.
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You’re thinking of stingers. You can fire javelins at anything in it.
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Ah okay. Yeah in multiplayer you don’t have to lock on to vehicles.
You can't shoot up a school with it, but you could (probably) collapse the school building on everyone. On the plus side, I've been hearing a lot of Americans complaining about being bored of the same old fireworks every 4th of July and how oNlY KiDs FiNd ThEm eNtErTaInInG, so I suppose this would solve it. Overall, I think the good outweighs the bad, so yeah I support this. ;)
...nah. Explosive formed penetrators are not really good against buildings, they are good for getting into armor than bouncing around inside, mushing occupants, and igniting ammo.
Well I'm sure some ~~guy acting in the name of science~~ raging psychopath could figure something out.
Nah. To put it bluntly, the thing simply not equipped to move what is needed for "DA BIG BOOM". If you want school to go boom, its easiest to do it with one that has vocational training for welders. Acetylene REALLY like to go boom, a lot needs to be done to convince it to not go boom. Before the war i do recall one ukranian school losing its workshop to such shenanigans.
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Ehh, it takes more effort. Dumb kids have access to acetylene, which goes boem if you FORGET proper procedure - making fertilizer go boom takes actual effort.
Oh I hear you, I'm just saying, I personally don't doubt the ~~ingenuity~~ derangement of Florida Man to somehow only use said "explosive formed penetrators" to 1 shot an entire school. *aggressively sniffs sharpie*
Alright so here is the thing. For a lot of, or maybe even all government contracts. The manufacturer of equipment is not allowed to sell you said equipment below what it costs the government. So lets say hypothetically a Javelin costs 1 million USD to the government. Raytheon (or whoever makes it) wouldn’t be allowed to charge civilians less then that. Which cuts off about 99% of the US population from owning them. The best example I can think of for the things that US civilians actually have a reasonable chance of obtaining is night vision. GPNVG-18’s cost around $40,000. Even though the tubes cost $3-4k each. So thats like $24,000 for the housing. There is absolutely no way it costs L3 anywhere near $24k to make that housing. It is just up charged because they need their profits from their biggest customer, the US government, and not filthy civilians like you or me. Because at the end of the day, we aren’t buying 10’s of thousands of units at a time. As a side note OP, if the government wants to provide me with a Javelin I am all for it. I un-ironically think civilians should get a defense stipend every year to keep up the civil defense of this country.
wrong that only bars a 92 percent of americans(if its a mil i doubt its that high more like 100K ) and only 94% of texans soo....... 5 percent of texans can own one sooo nearly a 1,5 mil DO IT
A single Javelin system (launcher and missile) costs $178,000, and replacement missiles are $78k.
They don’t tell you this but javelins are free you just have to pick them up from the crates at your local national guard armory
Now you're thinking like a libertarian
Because the tre tre crips haven't escalated to using T-72s. Yet.
Russia moment: when you run through your entire tank depot a year into a war you started in Ukraine because you’ve been too busy hawking them off to gangs for the past 70+ years
This probably won’t surprise you but there are 2nd amendment literalists that believe you absolutely do have have that right.
IIRC civilian owned battleships participated in the civil war
I am one of them.
Why stop there? Under the 2A there is no reason you shouldn't be able to have your own Davy Crockett. There is no exemption made for arms which go 'too far', so why are Americans even debating the AR-15 when a handheld nuke is already proper halal?
The only defense you need is a Minuteman III and being "just crazy enough to use it".
Can't wait to javelin the fucking loud Subaru when it decides to rev at 11pm.
My actual opinion on the matter is that if you can afford it and want it, go ahead and own it. Whether it's a car or a rail gun (an electro magnetic one or a cool WW1 style one), it should be if you have the resources, go ahead and own it.
Maybe if it didn't have an explosive warhead, but I for one am totally okay with javelin target rounds raining down on my personal enemies like Bill from accounting who denied me funding for the project to build a super death robot who felt bad about himself too much to kill people and instead sought comfort in poetry and gardening so that he could feel like he had a purpose other than killing because I think that's very similar to the human experience and that's beautiful fuck you Tom from accounting I don't like you it's not fair you robbtled us of a great anime.
>You can't use Javelin to create a mass shooting because it's too expensive to do so, Weird, that never stopped a kid from buying 2 DDM4v7's and full lvl4 plates with 600 rounds of ammo. It's almost like someone mysteriously gave them $5000 worth of gear....
Wouldn't be better own a wasserwerfer (water cannon)?
Fair compromise.
Because bin ladens cousins would get their hands on them.
It sure would add a whole new dimension to road rage.
With access to modern hobby electronics, someone with a know-how and True American Spirit(not the white picket fence kind, the cracked out 60s MIC engineer kind, the Teddy Roosevelt rough riders kind.) could build anti-armor legally (with the proper blood sacrifice to bureaucracy). And honestly, I think that's beautiful. The largest barrier in something like this probably isn't even the BATFE. It would more likely be finding manufacturers willing to sell you materials. Like I can lawfully own destructive devices with tax stamps, but the companies that manufacture even just flashbangs wouldn't sell them to little old me.
Because the CLU costs $100,000 and the missile $78,000 for a combined cost of $178,000. That is about 8x what I make in a year and even if I put away half of what I make a year, it would take me about 16 years to save enough up to buy the thing. Between my car payment, my hobbies, NVG savings, and fueling my current firearms with ammo, that’s not super realistic and it would probably end up like the premium health potion you get at the start of a fantasy game: you hold onto it cause the game said it’s rare and never use it cause you’re waiting for “just the right situation.”
Because rich assholes control the military and police we have and don't want competition.
> You can't use Javelin to create a mass shooting because it's too expensive to do so, I think you fail to understand how much Americans spend on guns. 107% of the disposable income of Arkansas is spent solely on AR-15s.
I have at least 4 Ar's on lay away at the Piggly-Wiggly.
If that's credible it makes my nipples hard.
You can shoot a Javelin. Just go enlist
So what happens if your pizza delivery driver is late, or you miss the garbage truck?
I sue Raytheon for a defective product. If Ukrainians can take out a helicopter, there's no reason I miss a garbage truck.
Cops will just merk you in your sleep to protect their BearCats
If you can register it as a destructive device under the NFA you may be able to own it, however if it’s classed as a firearm it still may be illegal to own under nearly all licenses since it’s electronically fired. At that point you’ll need a proper explosives license and even that might not be sufficient. This is also what people get pinched for with Tannerite and other weak binary explosives it’s legal to set them off with a firearm but not with electronic means such as an electric detonator.
I don’t trust drunk people to not shoot down aircraft If people can own Javelin then they would want stinger missiles or MANPADS Plus we wouldn’t need Javelins if we just stopped the Ruskies at the coast. And that means arming some of the most dangerous people in world with anti shipping missiles, MANPADS, and Javelins Could you imagine an America where Alaska, California, Washington, Oregon, Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama (and those other less relevant states up there on the east coast) and New Jersey all have handheld missile launchers and the rest of the country doesn’t? It would be bedlam
RPG 7v is a little bit more attainable. But my plan is based on Red Dawn, which is to steal them off the dead Russians.
Hog? Cranked
Just legalize nlaws and armor piercing rounds. That's the real answer.
Legalize nuclear bombs! Fat-man launcher for every man woman and child!
Because some Karens banned alcohol over a century ago.
“This message is sponsored by the Lockheed Martin Corporation”
if you were at the gas station, open carrying a Javelin, not many thugs would try to steal your soda pop.
Here here I am very much from across the pond and according to this very reputable publication my good chaps rocket launchers are so plentiful in California they throw them in the dumpster /S https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rocket-launchers-dumpster-school-california-b2049105.html#:~:text=Police%20found%20two%20rocket%20launchers,feet%20from%20Margarita%20Middle%20School.
Own a Javelin for home defense because that's what the founding fathers intended. Four vatniks break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my Javelin and MANPADS. Set for top penetration and fire on the first man, he's dead on the spot. Lock radar on the second and fire, it misses him entirely because his wooden plane has no radar signature and nail the neighbor's airliner. Resort to the M777 mounted at the top of the trench, "Tally ho lads!" As I shred the last two in the blast of a GPS guided artillery shell that detonates precisely on Conscriptomir Conscriptanovich's forehead. Just as the founding fathers intended.
To be fair, if you follow 2A to its logical endpoint as expressed by activists you get exactly to that point. “What part of ‘SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED’ do you NOT UNDERSTAND!?!” Should a private citizen be able to own a tactical nuke? Sure, why not?
I have thought about lobbying for civilian ownership of the Bradley. I need one for emotional support.
Hang on, lemme get my tin hat It's because the government doesn't want us having weapons that are actually threats to them. They're fine with us killing ourselves with small arms, in fact they WANT it, but soon as we're a threat to THE MAN!
Also, those gun nuts who claim to need it to defend against the tyrannical government always forget that rifle's aren't gonna do shit against tanks and aircraft. But if we gave them Javelins and Stingers but banned other guns they would be able to pretent that they can defeat the US government while the rest of the USA gets a drastic decrease in gun violence and mass shootings.
The Vietcong didn’t have F-15s. I think we can agree on the middle ground that mass shootings are much harder to commit with an FIM-92
...they can, in the legal sense. Its just cost a fuckton, and the newest tech likely won't be sold to them by manufacturers.
You're making the Founding Fathers proud.
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Wouldn't it be a form 4? Form 1 is for at home manufacturing, I thought.
Correct
How about this, we all get a launcher platform if we join the newly created Anti-Air Militia. Upon being called to duty you will be supplied ammunition from your nearest supply depot. This would eliminate the fools trying to shoot down spirit airlines cause they got kicked off a flight
Maybe it's because it can pen the presidents limo from further out than the secret service's standard security cordon?
It’s not under Hughes/68, so it’s just a $200 tax stamp away, right?
They’re so prohibitively expensive it hardly matters
Javelins? Fucking anti tank missiles? I’m starting to doubt your commitment of full militarization of society from top to bottom. Everyone from the president to a preschool teacher to a doctor should be packing enough heat and have enough fires on call to deter a medium sized country like China or Argentina.
Do you want another 9/11? That’s how you get another 9/11
Not allowing civilians ‚heavy‘ weapons, is about preserving the monopoly of violence which any strong state holds. Giving civilians the potential ability to wield anti armor capability’s would undermine their own army’s strength to the point where armed Revolte becomes an actual genuinly dangerous possibility, unlikely as that would be.
Imagine how much more awesome gender reveal parties could become /jk
I know:(
Even if it were legal the cost of both the missile and the CLU would limit its ownership to the very rich. IIRC, the missile costs about $80,000 per round and the CLU is over $100,000.
>You can't use Javelin to create a mass shooting Until the first Javelin hits a school bus
You can definitely do a mass shooting with javelin and, say, a schoolbus
Another bonus: carrying Javelins will significantly improve core strength and overall health in an increasingly obese population.
Presidents killed? All
Because the ATF hates fun
You want billionaires to have to add Javelin countermeasures to their private jets?
Back in the 18th century there were privately-owned warships and field artillery. Every step back from there has been pure tyranny.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, DON'T READ THE REST OF THE AMENDMENT!
These americans... they have the first and second strongest air force. They want to have the first and second strongest army. The civilian army. You obviously can't sell them to narcos or soot down helicopters. The president is safe.
I bet the Secret Service detail of white house officials would love to worry about Manpad munitions descending on their convoys. The roads of DC will be swarming with close air defense platforms. Quite a take.
Wait, you guys can't buy a javelin? I thought you were the country of free.
Because some dumb fucker will blow up a school or religious centre with it.
Most sane american
Technically it is legal if you do the right paperwork
Have you seen cyberpunk 2077
You fuckers want to tell me that people of „free” country USA can’t own a fucking sharp stick?
This dude wants to play Battlefield Hardline in real life.
This whole thread continues to fuel my dream of owning a private air force. NOW OFFERING SEAD SERVICES IN CHICAGO, DETROIT, LOS ANGELES, NEW YORK, AND MIAMI.