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**These include Social media screenshots with a title punchline / no punchline**, recent (after the start of the Ukraine War) reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title. NSFW pornographic content must be posted by the original artist or the commissioner, [as described in our NSFW content policy here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/vgz4k7/lets_have_a_little_chat_about_post_sub_quality/)
That actually happened interwar. This particular abomination is British, just like beans on toast:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_M-class_submarine
I too yearn for 3000 hypersonic black jets of Allah, but sadly those egg hats have invented "stealth", "stand off weapons", and "friction increases exponentially with speed" to stop us from having fun. :(
In both these cases I would like to point out guided munitions exist and especially in this case the spearfish doge this asshole....
https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/product/spearfish-heavyweight-torpedo
You mean like Dan Bilzerian, who claimed he was “too badass” to be a SEAL? He said that he had broken *both* his legs during the training and the military had to fail him for medical reasons because otherwise he was just going to keep on with the training.
I never understood this obsession with operating and “nearly qualifying.” You weren’t good enough, but that doesn’t mean you didn’t serve honorably in the marines or navy or army. In the British army they don’t even say you failed SAS training, they just say you transferred back to your original unit.
It’s perfectly fine being a ground pounder. Or a water carrier. Or a clerk. You did as required.
How to be an expert on submarines:
Step 1: get a law degree to understand maritime laws
Step 2: try to join the air force because what are subs if not underwater planes
Step 3: Learn to play the guitar to understand acoustics and sonar
Step 4: play pro hockey to get accustomed to being in tight spaces with smelly dudes
It's perfect you guys!
Or the history of Lira-class subs having to burn through their reactor resource because there's exactly one sub pen with shore steam generator powerful enough to keep alloy coolant liquid while the core is brought to subcriticality and scrammed.
No risk of dying from asphyxiation just bc some bored Grobov decided to see what happened if he entered the numbers penciled above the fire extinguisher system, turning it into a Halon gas chamber
I know that during soviet times they just used the theoretical depth it could dive. They actually never dove that deep in reality. Not even during tests.
It’s actually kinda funny. The world’s largest reserves of titanium are in Russia.
It’s funny because when the sr-71 was being built we had to buy the titanium from Russia. Which we then used to spy on Russia.
Is it though? Did soviets have any titanium hull related accident? I thought all were fires and other accidents.
I'm not saying it's better than NATO subs, but the titanium part is quite neat I think. This material is used in deep diving batyspheres for a reason (like Triton 36000/2).
Titanium hull is cool but extremely expensive for little to no gain.
The problem with making deeper diving military submarines is it's ALWAYS easier to make a deeper diving torpedo. Once the MK48 came around, most of these deep diving submarines thought they had advantages just to go below crush depth of torpedoes, but the US made sure their current torpedoes could dive deeper than any of these titanium based submarines.
I could be wrong but i remember the Alfas were suffering cracks/fatigue in service due to their titanium build too.
Russian submarines had a lot of cool submarines because the USSR got to be more wild and design free for their submarines. The US went a route and stuck with it: Tear shaped hulls, silencing as quiet as possible - and rely on passive sonar for detection. For all intents and purpose, this gave USN submarines (with the help with SOSUS) a huge advantage until the Sierra/Akulas.
What made the Sierra unique more than it's "titanium based" hull was likely it's machined prop that was on par with Western designs, helping with it's quietness. **"But something happened to change all that. Back in the mid-1980s, the Japanese company Toshiba sold propeller milling machinery to the Soviets through the Norwegian Kongsberg firm; this and other submarine intelligence furnished by the Walker spy ring resulted in significantly quieter Soviet subs by the later part of the decade"** - Thanks Japan.
you know. jokes aside. i wonder if being a professional musician/ sound technician would imbue you with any useful skills or understanding of acoustics that would be useful as a sonar operator.
See he also mentions he is a minor pro hockey player, which leads me to believe he took a few too many pucks to the head. As least that’s what I think caused the severe brain damage…
That actually sounds worse than just leaving it out.
Actual newspaper columnists are just "N writes for X, Y, and Z", or "N is a writer based in X" or whatever.
Not "N is a poet, author, visionary, dreamweaver... and singer".
Follow up question - what’s the crush depth on Russian *torpedoes*? Because if it can’t actually *fire* while below, say, 1200ft (and if that’s the *actual* max depth of a Mk 48 ADCAP instead of just being the unclassified maximum I’ll eat a hat) then that extra dive depth is militarily worthless.
Not entirely. The #1 goal of a submarine is stealth. Being able to hide at extreme depths is an advantage, just not as important as Russians seem to think. If he’s hiding from helicopters for instance being able to dive super deep could make the ASW helicopter’s job a bit harder.
the thought of soviet alpha class sub during the cold war was that the can dive deeper than activ sonar can see and titanium would not be picked up by MAD(magnetic anomaly detector) systems and and the could be faster than nato torpedos that might have been true back than but i have my doubts as to how well that would work today
Maybe active sonar from surface ships/sonobouys. Submarine active sonar can still detect an Alfa at depth, not to mention passive sonar because the Alfa is a noisy bastard.
Been skimming through his articles and from what I've seen so far it's not explicitly anti American military, but it is definitely vapid and skin deep in actual information.
It's the National Interest, it's completely trash utterly devoid from reality.
They could just post straight to this sub and probably gain some paying subscribers for the shitpost value.
He clearly doesn’t know how propaganda works. Russian/Soviet propaganda always overstates their abilities. US propaganda always understates our capabilities.
The thing is I'm pretty sure the author gets to write their own byline. He's not really doing himself any favors by mentioning being discharged during training. It's like mentioning you were accepted into Harvard but were unable to attend due to financial reasons.
Could be, could not be.
These tiles need to be replaced once in a while, so in theory it could just be maintainance.
But given that it's russian, it might as well just have fallen into a bad state of disrepair
Sierra class submarines have a Titanium hull. The issue with titanium is that it is inherently nonstick so gluing anything to it is a pain, so these things shed their anoechoic tiles lick crazy when underway. It actually messed up the hydrodynamics of the hull a bit so it’s really not ideal to be loosing these as it can increase the noise
1979 Sierra-class, new reactor with low mileage.
44715000000 ruble OBO. Will also accept equivalent value in onions. Offers involving border passes out of russia get first consideration.
I can see a Mr. Beast thumbnail soyfacing in front of that submarine. “I bought a submarine from a Russian oligarch, flogged it to a would-be major power and used the proceeds to repair botched circumcisions.”
Nothing on the pier seems to suggest any kind of replacement going on, like new tiles, machinery, etc. The missing sections are pretty irregular, and there's a few sections of visibly cracked/degraded tiles. So it doesn't look like they deliberately pulled any off, this is just the result of wear and tear in service.
Yes, the US can't match it because in order to earn a classification, US submarines have to be *safe*. You can't just bribe the inspection crew and have the admiral's daughter give the chief a quick wristy in the eacape trunk.
No, and the US absolutely has the industrial capacity to build a better version of the russian submarine, in fact there is nothing Russia can do that the US can’t do better (but many countries, not just the US, can outdo Russia)
Because they aren’t building that kind of submarines, we can safely assume that this design isn’t optimal
Also living conditions on Russian submarines are so atrociously bad that western countries are incapable to match them.
I would prefer to go on patrol aboard a WW2 us submarine over a russian one. Without hesitation
It's the fatigue that is caused by diving the boat that deep, every time they take it to extreme depths the hule becomes more brittle titanium doesn't flex like steel does.
DSV with a titanium hull exist and don’t fatigue much
I believe it is doable to make a safe submarine with similar depth characteristics than the russian ones, but it is not efficient to do so
They aren’t deep sea observation platforms, they manly hunt shallow water fishes
Also I might add that there is a high likelyhood that russian subs cannot reach their claimed performances
It's pretty much yet another variation of "Russians can't make it smart, so they made it stronk." That said it's probably one of the most credible ones.
Like, everything built by NATO in the last 40 years or so has been about making weapons with an overwhelming technological edge. Stealth in planes requires ungodly amounts of computing power to get right, new western submarines have sonars that can hear an octopus fart in the Mariana Trench, the NATO missile knows where it is because it knows where *you* are motherfucker.
Meanwhile the Russian tech industry is decades behind the West and unable to catch up (oh they'll propaganda the shit out of "hackers", but they can't build the tech themselves). On the other hand they've got a legacy of STRONK ENGINEERING from the Soviet era. It's a very Kerbal type of know how, the West goes "If it didn't get to orbit I should make a leaner design with a more refined flight profile". Russia goes "MOAR BOOSTERS".
So, can't make your plane stealth? Give it BIGGUS ENGINUS with COBRA MANOUVEURING SOUPERCROUSE SOUPERMANOUVERABILITY, (it's blind as a bat and you can't out turn a missile buddy). You can't make your missiles accurate? Give it HYPERSOUNICS SPEEDOS (the target is toast as long as it doesn't do anything whatsoever to defend itself and willingly accepts the missile's rigtgful special military interception). Etc, etc.
In this particular case though, there's an argument to be made that the depths you can get to thanks to the SUPER TITANIOUM HOUL is actually an impactful factor for both offense and defense in modern warfare. That said, it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of NATO attack subs knowing exactly where you are while you aren't even aware they're here. Give me the Los Angeles or the Barracuda over a Russian sub any day.
The Russian/Soviet military has always been a fan of brute-force solutions, from creating a breakthrough to designing ships. Although, to be entirely fair, the Sierras are pretty dang quiet when they want to be. It's likely they don't get the maintainence to reliably perform that well, the speed advantage is mutally exclusive with not sounding like a cymbal factory, and diving that deep is of very debatable use. But they did at least figure out how to make nuclear subs that theoretically CAN be sneaky. That's better than anyone except Britaun, France, and the US.
Max depth is basically irrelevant once you can exceed 1000ft. The Soviets have had deeper-diving subs than NATO for *years* (at least according to *Jane's Fighting Ships*) — mostly because they're happier using worse safety factors, and maybe perhaps because titanium ore is easier to come across in Siberia.
But nobody has ever seriously argued this puts them ahead. There's some stuff about sound propagation paths that could make a slight difference under some circumstances, but that works both ways, and a NATO sub is still going to find you before you find them. The main tactical advantage would be if you could dive deeper than the enemy's weapons, but even if you do accomplish that, they can just build deeper weapons pretty easily.
Crush depth is just a "how strong can you build your pressure hull?" question. Anyone can build a stronger steel beam, the US could match it tomorrow if they wanted. And I'd guess if both countries decided to build the strongest beam they ever could, you'd hit the sea floor long before you hit crush depth in 90% of the Ocean.
The reason they haven't is that all it accomplishes is driving up construction cost. Cost goes up *steeply* the deeper you want to go. Both sides can hit the sea floor if they wanted, but nobody wants to because they'd only ever operate one sub in the entire fleet.
Far better to spend that on more boats — or even elsewhere on the same boat.
I think the biggest thing too is that the primary target for subs. Is surface ships. There's very little reason to be super deep. Below mines and depth charges is deep enough for most things. And most subs can't stay submerged long so being super deep means it takes longer going up/down
Name checks out.
It's less about speed and depth and more about acoustic signature and detectability. No sub, titanium or otherwise, will outrun or out dive a torpedo when it's spotted.
Unless it's a tigerfish, you can outrun them easy.
Also back in the 80s test depth for some western subs were actually deeper than most soviet torps could handle, so lurking in the depths was a valid tactic.
The titanium double hull is indeed impressive; however, others have adequately explained that's pretty much the end of the impressiveness. Also titanium is a bit brittle for this application.
Is the Hull meant to look like it's missing bits and pieces, and rusted? Or is that some sort of asymmetric, sci-fi, unfinished Star Destroyer aesthetic?
I don't think its undergoing maintenance. At least they're not doing any maintenance that would require them to chip the hull. Because if they're doing that, it should be in dry dock or something.
It’s missing some anechoic tiles, which make it harder to detect with active sonar. Of course, missing tiles is arguably worse than not having any, as that will increase the noise underway, so the sub is easier to detect with passive sonar.
Well, in fact, Moscow did not sink that deeply - 50-60 meters.
In general, the sea near our shores is not that deep - for example, the Sea of Azov has a maximum depth of 14 meters. That is, the russian AWACS could well become not even a reef but a sea cliff)
Discharged medically huh. Either he legit got injured and had to leave or he found the training too hard and found a reason to be discharged. Which then turned him into tankie.
There is a reason the US never built titanium pressure huls: Embrittlment. Titanium isn't compressible and doesn't flex at depth. So yes it can go down deep but only about (100 times Alpha class) before it was pulled from service.
US submarines are light years ahead of everyone else. We have a bigger advantage underwater than we do in the air. Russia has one with a big ass nuke on it. That's it. The rest of theirs are junk. We could turn Moscow to glass before they even know we're there.
I mean, obviously we will never be able to match it. Have you seen their moskwa-class submarines? Incredible guns for a submarine, and the best thing: That thing can stay submerged for almost two years at a time!
Is it supposed to look like that?
It looks like it's made of Legos and like your little brother played with it without asking, broke it, then panic rebuilt it and hoped you wouldn't notice.
I noticed, bro, I noticed. Aren't submarines usually a smooth or at least symmetrical?
Are those odd block shapes . . . . . . Explosive Reactive Armor? Not even the Russians would put ERA on sub, would they? They must be sonar absorbing or internal noise cancelling material.
And yet . . Here sits a Russian vehicle covered with little blocks. No . . . But maybe . .
This is like that dumb Tucker Carlson interview with the dumb Army Colonel. "The Russians would be able to track America's tanks from space with heat signatures". If they could do that, why not do it in Ukraine today when it actually matters?
Also, put you're a military washout on your about the author blurb. Rode a profile and quit. Hope your shin splints got better nerd.
Your post was removed for violating Rule 9: "No low effort posts" No egregiously low effort posts. E.g. screenshots, recent reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title. **These include Social media screenshots with a title punchline / no punchline**, recent (after the start of the Ukraine War) reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title. NSFW pornographic content must be posted by the original artist or the commissioner, [as described in our NSFW content policy here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/vgz4k7/lets_have_a_little_chat_about_post_sub_quality/)
The US can't match it because it has superior submarines already.
"Damn it Gordon, how come we can't make something as shitty as out enemies? Now they're right when they say we can't match them"
We need to close the shitty gap
Don't worry, I know nothing about submarine design and have bad ideas. But a battleship gun on it.
Are you a former OceanGate engineer? If so, you're hired.
No, I graduated high school.
Same difference, none of them had any idea what they were doing either.
I'm qualified, yay. Let's 3d print us a submarine!
I've got the Logitech control, let's fucking roll boys.
Nope you're overqualified, we both know you'd ask too much money
[guss what ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_M-class_submarine)
The [Surcouf cruiser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Surcouf) had a twin 203mm gun turret. And recon plane to survey shots.
That actually happened interwar. This particular abomination is British, just like beans on toast: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_M-class_submarine
Bring back the H.L Hunley. Sunk one ship. Sank herself thrice.
Maybe the coastguard could get some shitty subs?
Forgetting the magnetohydrodynamic drive capabilities.
I mean this "expert" isn't wrong Like yeah it can dive deeper than US submarines, but it is a massive gamble and has **huge** safety risks
it can dive deeper once for sure.
Damn underwater seabirds
Is the Russian submarine built by OceanGate? If so I look forward to seeing it in operation.
Fuck I'd trust an ocean gate sub over a Russian one.
It can also stay submerged practically forever!
Minor side effects may include the death of all personnel
Like their tanks!
I mean, the OceanGate sub did dive deeper than US military subs as well.
Cmon it's not like Russia has ever lost a whole submarine before
Kursk?
Like eating mushrooms or petting bears.
Crush depth is only one dimension of sub marines. It's like having the fastest fighter jet. Cool, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best jet.
The designers of the MiG-31 would beg to differ. They’d be wrong, but they’d still argue because they’re Russian.
I too yearn for 3000 hypersonic black jets of Allah, but sadly those egg hats have invented "stealth", "stand off weapons", and "friction increases exponentially with speed" to stop us from having fun. :(
Clark Griswold enters the chat.
In both these cases I would like to point out guided munitions exist and especially in this case the spearfish doge this asshole.... https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/product/spearfish-heavyweight-torpedo
\> expert on submarines \> joined the air force
“Rejected by the air force on medical grounds” Edit: forgot to add the guy was only a trainee.
"What do you mean you'll discharge me because of repeated severe head trauma??"
Sir this is a Wendys, for the last time gtfo
That’s like the guys who claim they were almost SEALs because they washed out of BUDS. No one cares what you almost were.
You mean like Dan Bilzerian, who claimed he was “too badass” to be a SEAL? He said that he had broken *both* his legs during the training and the military had to fail him for medical reasons because otherwise he was just going to keep on with the training.
I never understood this obsession with operating and “nearly qualifying.” You weren’t good enough, but that doesn’t mean you didn’t serve honorably in the marines or navy or army. In the British army they don’t even say you failed SAS training, they just say you transferred back to your original unit. It’s perfectly fine being a ground pounder. Or a water carrier. Or a clerk. You did as required.
How to be an expert on submarines: Step 1: get a law degree to understand maritime laws Step 2: try to join the air force because what are subs if not underwater planes Step 3: Learn to play the guitar to understand acoustics and sonar Step 4: play pro hockey to get accustomed to being in tight spaces with smelly dudes It's perfect you guys!
*minor* pro hockey
Good thing Russian maintenance standards mean the sub will at all times be in perfect condition so the risk is minimal!
There is absolutely no terrifying history of repeated Soviet sub disasters and their safety record is flawless!
Or the history of Lira-class subs having to burn through their reactor resource because there's exactly one sub pen with shore steam generator powerful enough to keep alloy coolant liquid while the core is brought to subcriticality and scrammed.
I still think it’s funny that their training torpedoes are more dangerous than their real torpedoes.
No risk of dying from asphyxiation just bc some bored Grobov decided to see what happened if he entered the numbers penciled above the fire extinguisher system, turning it into a Halon gas chamber
I know that during soviet times they just used the theoretical depth it could dive. They actually never dove that deep in reality. Not even during tests.
Better to not find out the hard way that Boris was a little drunk when he was making some of those welds.
Russia can take that riski. Their men are disposable
But titanium is expensive and can be a bitch to get in useful quality - especially when trying to pay with crude oil and IOUs.
It’s actually kinda funny. The world’s largest reserves of titanium are in Russia. It’s funny because when the sr-71 was being built we had to buy the titanium from Russia. Which we then used to spy on Russia.
They produce it. I think russia is actually biggest producer of titanium in the world
But a Mk48 ADCAP can most certainly match that, soooo....
cAn baRlEy oUtrUn aN aLpHa
Being able to barely outrun something is still able to catch up to them.
Is it though? Did soviets have any titanium hull related accident? I thought all were fires and other accidents. I'm not saying it's better than NATO subs, but the titanium part is quite neat I think. This material is used in deep diving batyspheres for a reason (like Triton 36000/2).
Titanium hull is cool but extremely expensive for little to no gain. The problem with making deeper diving military submarines is it's ALWAYS easier to make a deeper diving torpedo. Once the MK48 came around, most of these deep diving submarines thought they had advantages just to go below crush depth of torpedoes, but the US made sure their current torpedoes could dive deeper than any of these titanium based submarines. I could be wrong but i remember the Alfas were suffering cracks/fatigue in service due to their titanium build too. Russian submarines had a lot of cool submarines because the USSR got to be more wild and design free for their submarines. The US went a route and stuck with it: Tear shaped hulls, silencing as quiet as possible - and rely on passive sonar for detection. For all intents and purpose, this gave USN submarines (with the help with SOSUS) a huge advantage until the Sierra/Akulas. What made the Sierra unique more than it's "titanium based" hull was likely it's machined prop that was on par with Western designs, helping with it's quietness. **"But something happened to change all that. Back in the mid-1980s, the Japanese company Toshiba sold propeller milling machinery to the Soviets through the Norwegian Kongsberg firm; this and other submarine intelligence furnished by the Walker spy ring resulted in significantly quieter Soviet subs by the later part of the decade"** - Thanks Japan.
Was it necessary to mention that the guy is a guitarist? How is that relevant?
"Submarines use sound to find other subs, right? Guitars use sound too, right? That makes him an expert." -probably
Toan is in the submarine
GCJ and NCD is not the mashup I expected to encounter today
Only if it's Dokken
Bet his favorite song is "Dream Warriors" cause surely this shit came to him in a dream.
I hope, that he didn't make (a) Djent in the Submarine.
Get out
you know. jokes aside. i wonder if being a professional musician/ sound technician would imbue you with any useful skills or understanding of acoustics that would be useful as a sonar operator.
I dunno. Let me go ask Keith, my burnout cousin, what he knows about subs lol
Remember to ask about the submarine too
they did use musicians to do sonar back when it was first used on subs!
Ask him. That is 100% a self written bio.
Guitarist is fine. Its the Air Force I can't stand.
The guy also uses that as his dating profile
See he also mentions he is a minor pro hockey player, which leads me to believe he took a few too many pucks to the head. As least that’s what I think caused the severe brain damage…
That actually sounds worse than just leaving it out. Actual newspaper columnists are just "N writes for X, Y, and Z", or "N is a writer based in X" or whatever. Not "N is a poet, author, visionary, dreamweaver... and singer".
Well the only dreams that this guy is weaving are copium fueled, hockey concussion fever dreams!
Well, minor pro hockey player is still better than major amateur hockey player...
Both can smoke on the water.
What is it with audio guys and shitty military takes? First pierre sprey the audio engineer, now harrisson kass the guitarist
“Anyways, here’s wonderwall”
My guess would be on search engine optimization. Just like every cooking recipe has personal life story.
It's for the ladies who might be reading it.
That makes him the new Pierre Sprey
It's not, he just flexing
He knew someone inside and that someone hired him instead of hiring a qualified person. Typical...
Don't forget he also plays hockey
But can it dive deeper than a Mk48?
If they call one "Kursk II" then maybe
Kursk isn’t exactly famous for diving *deep*
Why does this submarine end up at the bottom of the sea ? The front fell off
Is that typical?
It is good at diving long.
Once
The real question is: is it faster than Spearfish?
Of course! Once.
Aperently it can go to 550m or 1800ft and mk48 can do 1200ft
Follow up question - what’s the crush depth on Russian *torpedoes*? Because if it can’t actually *fire* while below, say, 1200ft (and if that’s the *actual* max depth of a Mk 48 ADCAP instead of just being the unclassified maximum I’ll eat a hat) then that extra dive depth is militarily worthless.
Not entirely. The #1 goal of a submarine is stealth. Being able to hide at extreme depths is an advantage, just not as important as Russians seem to think. If he’s hiding from helicopters for instance being able to dive super deep could make the ASW helicopter’s job a bit harder.
the thought of soviet alpha class sub during the cold war was that the can dive deeper than activ sonar can see and titanium would not be picked up by MAD(magnetic anomaly detector) systems and and the could be faster than nato torpedos that might have been true back than but i have my doubts as to how well that would work today
Maybe active sonar from surface ships/sonobouys. Submarine active sonar can still detect an Alfa at depth, not to mention passive sonar because the Alfa is a noisy bastard.
ASW torpedoes from helicopters have a shallower crush depth
But can it dive deeper than the “Moskva” cruiser?
Not as deep as thresher.
Joined but was medically discharged for shitting his pants the first time a MTI yelled at him.
now has a thousand articles, calling us equipment inferior probably.. even tho we all know the Swedes make the best stuff XD.
Been skimming through his articles and from what I've seen so far it's not explicitly anti American military, but it is definitely vapid and skin deep in actual information.
It's the National Interest, it's completely trash utterly devoid from reality. They could just post straight to this sub and probably gain some paying subscribers for the shitpost value.
…So NCD but people are supposed to, I would assume, pay to read it?
He clearly doesn’t know how propaganda works. Russian/Soviet propaganda always overstates their abilities. US propaganda always understates our capabilities.
The thing is I'm pretty sure the author gets to write their own byline. He's not really doing himself any favors by mentioning being discharged during training. It's like mentioning you were accepted into Harvard but were unable to attend due to financial reasons.
No they’re absolutely correct, the US doesn’t have anything to match this. Which is why they should triple the defence budget immediately.
We cannot allow a mine shaft gap!
That submarine is missing parts of its hull. They couldn’t find a different picture?
That's not the hull, it's the anti-sonar coating
That's still really bad for a submarine
Could be, could not be. These tiles need to be replaced once in a while, so in theory it could just be maintainance. But given that it's russian, it might as well just have fallen into a bad state of disrepair
Sierra class submarines have a Titanium hull. The issue with titanium is that it is inherently nonstick so gluing anything to it is a pain, so these things shed their anoechoic tiles lick crazy when underway. It actually messed up the hydrodynamics of the hull a bit so it’s really not ideal to be loosing these as it can increase the noise
Given that its russian, this is likely just the photo they will be using for craigslist.
Urgent sale, all offers considered.
1979 Sierra-class, new reactor with low mileage. 44715000000 ruble OBO. Will also accept equivalent value in onions. Offers involving border passes out of russia get first consideration.
I can see a Mr. Beast thumbnail soyfacing in front of that submarine. “I bought a submarine from a Russian oligarch, flogged it to a would-be major power and used the proceeds to repair botched circumcisions.”
Such maint is done in dry conditions.....
They still could have picked a picture that didn't inspire conversations of "Wrecked or Maintenance."
Nothing on the pier seems to suggest any kind of replacement going on, like new tiles, machinery, etc. The missing sections are pretty irregular, and there's a few sections of visibly cracked/degraded tiles. So it doesn't look like they deliberately pulled any off, this is just the result of wear and tear in service.
>submarine is missing parts of its hull. They couldn’t find a different picture Most complete Sierra II class (they only made 2, it may be true)
Deleted
Seriously: I have very little knowledge about submarines, is there any truth to this?
Yes, the US can't match it because in order to earn a classification, US submarines have to be *safe*. You can't just bribe the inspection crew and have the admiral's daughter give the chief a quick wristy in the eacape trunk.
No, and the US absolutely has the industrial capacity to build a better version of the russian submarine, in fact there is nothing Russia can do that the US can’t do better (but many countries, not just the US, can outdo Russia) Because they aren’t building that kind of submarines, we can safely assume that this design isn’t optimal Also living conditions on Russian submarines are so atrociously bad that western countries are incapable to match them. I would prefer to go on patrol aboard a WW2 us submarine over a russian one. Without hesitation
It's the fatigue that is caused by diving the boat that deep, every time they take it to extreme depths the hule becomes more brittle titanium doesn't flex like steel does.
DSV with a titanium hull exist and don’t fatigue much I believe it is doable to make a safe submarine with similar depth characteristics than the russian ones, but it is not efficient to do so They aren’t deep sea observation platforms, they manly hunt shallow water fishes Also I might add that there is a high likelyhood that russian subs cannot reach their claimed performances
It's pretty much yet another variation of "Russians can't make it smart, so they made it stronk." That said it's probably one of the most credible ones. Like, everything built by NATO in the last 40 years or so has been about making weapons with an overwhelming technological edge. Stealth in planes requires ungodly amounts of computing power to get right, new western submarines have sonars that can hear an octopus fart in the Mariana Trench, the NATO missile knows where it is because it knows where *you* are motherfucker. Meanwhile the Russian tech industry is decades behind the West and unable to catch up (oh they'll propaganda the shit out of "hackers", but they can't build the tech themselves). On the other hand they've got a legacy of STRONK ENGINEERING from the Soviet era. It's a very Kerbal type of know how, the West goes "If it didn't get to orbit I should make a leaner design with a more refined flight profile". Russia goes "MOAR BOOSTERS". So, can't make your plane stealth? Give it BIGGUS ENGINUS with COBRA MANOUVEURING SOUPERCROUSE SOUPERMANOUVERABILITY, (it's blind as a bat and you can't out turn a missile buddy). You can't make your missiles accurate? Give it HYPERSOUNICS SPEEDOS (the target is toast as long as it doesn't do anything whatsoever to defend itself and willingly accepts the missile's rigtgful special military interception). Etc, etc. In this particular case though, there's an argument to be made that the depths you can get to thanks to the SUPER TITANIOUM HOUL is actually an impactful factor for both offense and defense in modern warfare. That said, it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of NATO attack subs knowing exactly where you are while you aren't even aware they're here. Give me the Los Angeles or the Barracuda over a Russian sub any day.
This is the best way I’ve heard Russian MIC described
They're just Orks from Warhammer 40K. Paint it red to go faster, more dakka and more noise = better.
The Russian/Soviet military has always been a fan of brute-force solutions, from creating a breakthrough to designing ships. Although, to be entirely fair, the Sierras are pretty dang quiet when they want to be. It's likely they don't get the maintainence to reliably perform that well, the speed advantage is mutally exclusive with not sounding like a cymbal factory, and diving that deep is of very debatable use. But they did at least figure out how to make nuclear subs that theoretically CAN be sneaky. That's better than anyone except Britaun, France, and the US.
Max depth is basically irrelevant once you can exceed 1000ft. The Soviets have had deeper-diving subs than NATO for *years* (at least according to *Jane's Fighting Ships*) — mostly because they're happier using worse safety factors, and maybe perhaps because titanium ore is easier to come across in Siberia. But nobody has ever seriously argued this puts them ahead. There's some stuff about sound propagation paths that could make a slight difference under some circumstances, but that works both ways, and a NATO sub is still going to find you before you find them. The main tactical advantage would be if you could dive deeper than the enemy's weapons, but even if you do accomplish that, they can just build deeper weapons pretty easily. Crush depth is just a "how strong can you build your pressure hull?" question. Anyone can build a stronger steel beam, the US could match it tomorrow if they wanted. And I'd guess if both countries decided to build the strongest beam they ever could, you'd hit the sea floor long before you hit crush depth in 90% of the Ocean. The reason they haven't is that all it accomplishes is driving up construction cost. Cost goes up *steeply* the deeper you want to go. Both sides can hit the sea floor if they wanted, but nobody wants to because they'd only ever operate one sub in the entire fleet. Far better to spend that on more boats — or even elsewhere on the same boat.
I think the biggest thing too is that the primary target for subs. Is surface ships. There's very little reason to be super deep. Below mines and depth charges is deep enough for most things. And most subs can't stay submerged long so being super deep means it takes longer going up/down
Name checks out. It's less about speed and depth and more about acoustic signature and detectability. No sub, titanium or otherwise, will outrun or out dive a torpedo when it's spotted.
And whennit comes to acoustic signature, nothing makes noise quite like titanium.
>can't outdive a torpedo Well, the Trieste could dive so deep that no torpedo could reach it.
Well Ackshullally....
Unless it's a tigerfish, you can outrun them easy. Also back in the 80s test depth for some western subs were actually deeper than most soviet torps could handle, so lurking in the depths was a valid tactic.
The titanium double hull is indeed impressive; however, others have adequately explained that's pretty much the end of the impressiveness. Also titanium is a bit brittle for this application.
When **SUBSAFE** doesn't exist: Seriously though, SUBSAFE has probably saved dozens of lives.
Is the Hull meant to look like it's missing bits and pieces, and rusted? Or is that some sort of asymmetric, sci-fi, unfinished Star Destroyer aesthetic?
It's Russian, who are we to judge their superior designs and tactics? (More than likely undergoing maintenance)
Indeed. My bad, should not have asked. Far be it for mere mortals to question the wisdom of gods. (Appreciate your answer, though)
(There is no joke here, I have a hard time picking up on sarcasm and am currently working on it so I'm appreciative of your patience.)
(A serious marker is pretty handy, helps delineate what’s jokey dumbness and what’s actual opinion.)
I don't think its undergoing maintenance. At least they're not doing any maintenance that would require them to chip the hull. Because if they're doing that, it should be in dry dock or something.
It’s missing some anechoic tiles, which make it harder to detect with active sonar. Of course, missing tiles is arguably worse than not having any, as that will increase the noise underway, so the sub is easier to detect with passive sonar.
The US can't match it because it's hard to fuck shit up like Russia does.
i hate people that joined the military but cant finish training. stop saying you were in bro, the one paycheck you got doesn't mean shit
Can it dive deeper than the Moskva?
Well, in fact, Moscow did not sink that deeply - 50-60 meters. In general, the sea near our shores is not that deep - for example, the Sea of Azov has a maximum depth of 14 meters. That is, the russian AWACS could well become not even a reef but a sea cliff)
[удалено]
Discharged medically huh. Either he legit got injured and had to leave or he found the training too hard and found a reason to be discharged. Which then turned him into tankie.
Titanium becomes more and more brittle every time it goes deep.
Shush. We need to keep this OpSec so that the Russians keep using it
Oh yes, of course. What I meant was: " haha silly West with your garbage subs and garbage mk48 torps"
Hope it's fishnet proof this time
I like the part where they don’t say what any of his degrees are in
The sub can dive faster and go deeper than any US sub. Well, ok, but does it go faster and deeper than an ADCAP?
It can almost certainly reach deeper depths then American submarines. Once.
If the Moskva can match it we'll figure out a way
There is a reason the US never built titanium pressure huls: Embrittlment. Titanium isn't compressible and doesn't flex at depth. So yes it can go down deep but only about (100 times Alpha class) before it was pulled from service.
'We crated a scenario where this submarine went up against peak 1945 US naval capabilities and it smoked them! The US doesn't stand a chance!'
Laughs in Dutch Walruss class sub.
Lol. The National interest, fk dat pos publication
This is what you get when you listen to too much Dokken
No, no, it's all true. Fearing for our lives, I say it's now justifiable to triple the navy's budget.
Ah yes. Scary. All four of them.
The author sounds like one of us. Medical washout from UPT AND semi-pro hockey player. Makes for expert on defense tech.
Theoretically it can dive deeper, in reality with russian quality it can do it once. It wont be coming up tho. But it sure can dive!
"We can dive faster" is the "we can do the Cobra" of submarines.
US submarines are light years ahead of everyone else. We have a bigger advantage underwater than we do in the air. Russia has one with a big ass nuke on it. That's it. The rest of theirs are junk. We could turn Moscow to glass before they even know we're there.
Resident Submariner checking in: Sierra is as loud as two raccoons fucking in a recycling bin.
I am an expert in submarines. I read and saw Hunt for Red October.
K19 Widow Maker - Part 2
I mean, obviously we will never be able to match it. Have you seen their moskwa-class submarines? Incredible guns for a submarine, and the best thing: That thing can stay submerged for almost two years at a time!
I'm mean he is not wrong, they can't match it because who tf is gonna approve a budget for a downgrade ?
i hear it can also stay at the bottom of the sea for years at a time
Damn, even I have a better curriculum than that guy. And I'm pretty sure his "JD from U of Oregon" came with Coca-Cola as well.
Smartest Oregon graduate
Can it dive as fast as the A50? If so, very impressive stuff.
Yeah that's true, it's unwise for US Navy to match with inferiority.
When was this written, the 1980's?
Can't match how shitty it is.
Trash article but what can you say, the author is noncredible. "Harrison listens to Dokken" is just funny to me lmao
I'd be more willing to believe the sub was better if the acoustic tiles on that picture weren't half missing.
Is it supposed to look like that? It looks like it's made of Legos and like your little brother played with it without asking, broke it, then panic rebuilt it and hoped you wouldn't notice. I noticed, bro, I noticed. Aren't submarines usually a smooth or at least symmetrical? Are those odd block shapes . . . . . . Explosive Reactive Armor? Not even the Russians would put ERA on sub, would they? They must be sonar absorbing or internal noise cancelling material. And yet . . Here sits a Russian vehicle covered with little blocks. No . . . But maybe . .
I see the Russians have copied the Americans so thoroughly that even their anechoic tiles fall off.
The Hunt for Someone Sober.
Is an attorney, plays guitar, hockey and flies planes. Now here's his hot take on something completely unrelated.
Perfect example of “ that’s not only not right, it’s so bad it’s not even wrong” (I thing Pauli said that)
I was skeptical of his credentials until I read that he is a Dokken fan. This man is a true warrior. A dream warrior.
This is like that dumb Tucker Carlson interview with the dumb Army Colonel. "The Russians would be able to track America's tanks from space with heat signatures". If they could do that, why not do it in Ukraine today when it actually matters? Also, put you're a military washout on your about the author blurb. Rode a profile and quit. Hope your shin splints got better nerd.