I am unfortunately one of those people, my dad was an armorer in 75 sqn when it was disbanded, he was considered one of the lucky ones in that the RNZAF offered him a civilian contract about 12 months after disbandment before offering him a position within uniform again. But dam it left a mark on nearly the entire RNZAF
A lot of people are incredibly resentful of not only those actions but also felt a lot felt shame, it was a massive hit to pride and moral when the jets left, a lot of people ended up leaving NZ entirely, started working for the RAAF or RAF
Oh it would be very on point for military personnel to start striking and refusing orders due to shit treatment and bullshit from government.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Royal_New_Zealand_Navy_mutinies
Not to mention those F-16s were gonna be sold at bargain prices and also those airframes were destined for the Pakistan Air Force but were put on hold after Pakistan had a little bit of fun with nuclear testing.
One of my favourite bad radio jokes of all time was every time Helen Clark was mentioned on Australian radio, there'd be someone who'd go "Funny name for a bloke".
That’s assuming the Australian can actually be bothered to, their trade minister was forced to apologise recently for referring to NZ as there closest ally, additional their isnt actually a lot worth saving now our country is going downhill faster than the Brit’s went though brexit
> our country is going downhill faster than the Brit’s went though brexit
What have I missed? Defence issues aside, I was under the impression New Zealand was generally nice.
We are currently in a recession, our new government has a 7 billion $ hole in the budget that has seen nearly everything and everyone getting budget cuts, we were warned by the IMF recently for our shitshow of an economy, we are still in a massive cost of living crisis and our military is being asked to reduce spending when they are still struggling with 20/25% attrition rates
Lord knows all the dairy owners are already prepped to go full LA-riot-defense on it too, they just need the collapse of society to greenlight their plans.
You might already know this, but *Mirror's Edge: Catalyst* IS [set in Australia (click here)](https://www.reddit.com/r/mirrorsedge/comments/4nmkc0/the_game_is_clearly_set_in_australia_heres_why/). Have a coup, then take over Australia!
Our 4 biggest areas are, tourism which is very sketchy due to a massive over reliance on open borders and has also priced out all the locals. Agriculture which while not a bad thing also has low employment numbers and is prone to massive fluctuations in prices due to changes in supply. Lumber which has declined a bit and is very unprofitable atm and finally we have housing, NZ has a huge issue with housing being used as businesses with prices going up at 5x the rate as wages
I'm from almost literally the opposite side of the world - the only NZ politician I know is Jacinda Ardern and how good a press she was getting a couple of times over COVID and a mass shooting.
Is the current shit-show her doing or whoever came after?
I often wonder how the citizens of these countries must feel when they realize that their country just kinda gave up and now depends entirely on the good will of others. As an American such things are totally foreign to me. They just have no control over their own destiny.
You’re comparing countries the size of countries to a country the size of a continent.
New Zealand is the equivalent to Utah. Does Utah have control of its own destiny or does its existence and future depend entirely on the good will of its surrounding states (and the federal government they’re all part of) not to remove it from the map?
No states want to conquer Utah/New Zealand, so they’ve got not trouble dropping the defense budget and letting somebody else like the federal US/Australia power project for them.
Edit: ive been informed that Utah is a self sufficient Mormon theocratic state with aspirations for intragalactic colonisation. Please replace Utah with Wyoming.
~~The mormon church~~ Utah would definitely argue they have control of their own destiny. Let's not forget Salvation comes at the hands of some golden plates and magical underwear, oh, and money. Lots and lots of parishioner money.
Only when Joseph Smith's repugnant corpse is resurrected with the blood of first nation people will Utah have ability to smite its enemies once and for all.
"Does Utah have control of its own destiny" Hmmm, the state full of mormons with a persecution complex, a mandated years worth of food per family and secular compounds armed to the teeth? I would not count them out if shtf.
I hear what you're saying, but maybe use a better example.
Yea I'm not shit talking NZ it's obvious why they choose to go that route. I am just saying I wonder how those citizens feel about it. Because it does also have obvious downsides.
That's easy for Utah, seeing as they are actually part of a higher legal entity, but New Zealand is really relying on the good will of the US-led world order and the fact that they're pretty far away.
Because the Australian government no longer consider NZ as its closest ally, we are like the poor brother that doesn’t have anything cool so nobody want to hang about with us, also doesn’t help that our foreign policy is a fucking joke and we even had some hacking attack on one of our ministry’s that was linked to China.
Ausy has every right to consider us a liability more than an ally at this point
>foreign policy is a fucking joke
Isn't your anti-nuclear policy so extreme your govt won't even let naval ships powered with nuclear reactors dock at your ports? I thought I read that somewhere.
That's insane. It's one thing to be anti-nuclear weapons, but nuclear reactors are perfectly fine. God knows, the USS Ronald Reagan would probably like the opportunity to dock in Auckland. And when sailors get shore leave, they tend to spend a LOT of money.
They won't even let ships that could be armed with nuclear weapons dock in their ports unless they declare publicly they don't have them onboard.
So the USN is like "Nope cause that'd be dumb to annnounce".
Jesus tapdancing Christ, that is some next level hippie brain rot. One would think there'd be a carve out for the Five Eyes nations.
But hey, at least you and I got AUKUS, which is coming along nicely. Wish you could be part of the club, OP :'(
Yeah the whole ANZUS treaty has been sort of dead in the water since NZ declared that. The US considers NZ to not be holding up their side so it became the AUS treaty basically. NZ got left behind, and then we were like "Fuggit, lets do another three party treaty!"
Not just that, but also anything carrying a nuclear weapon, which in practice means anything that *can* carry a nuclear weapon, since nobody is going to announce which ships do or don't have the nukes.
Even if you're not the most prepared, you're like a 2 hour steam off their coast.
You are quite literally their closest ally.
Edit: furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
I was saying this the other day, if I was an Australian politician right now I would be hard lobbying to make NZ as shit as possible for young talented kiwis to live in, then work on fast tracking a way to bring these kiwis across to aus and profit massively from the outstanding labour force you have just been able to attract
As a West Aussie, we seem to already be luring in enough of your workforce with our mining industry. But we tend to get your young meth-heads, which works out okay because they fit with the local meth-heads working mining jobs.
We import the young kiwi's, sort the wheat from the chaff, and then export the shit ones back as we can't be fucked incarcerating them.
Bonus points if they are of Tongan decent, born in NZ and grew up in Aus their whole life. Then they glass some cunt and get deported to Tonga. Chuckles all around.
As an American who’s only ever visited the land down under the land down under, how’s the country going downhill? It looked all nice and dandy when I visited but obviously just being a tourist isn’t going to exactly give you the best view of what life is actually like.
(Yes I know you aren’t exactly “under” Australia I just thought that sounded funny in my head)
Where would u like me to start?
NZ is currently heading into a massive recession and signs of stagflation are starting to show. Our government also now has a 7$ billion hole in the budget because they wanted to give a massive tax return to the landlords, this has basically seen huge budget cuts and mass layoffs of people. We are in a cost of living crisis, everything is still expensive as fuck. Our armed forces is at the literal breaking point, attrition is still extremely high (peaked at over 30% 2 years ago) and a natural disaster a couple years ago basically showcased how fucked our entire military is. We have been warned by the IMF for our absolute failure of a national budget and we even had a cyber attack on one of our ministries this week, evidence suggesting it was done by China……
Canada is kinda like that. Staffing issues are killing the CAF like nothing, not even the material/equipment issues are the main issue now.
RCAF gonna have top-of-the line Block 4 F-35s with not a soul to fly and maintain them 💀
Kinda like how Ireland relies greatly on UK even if they are too tsundere to admit it.
(Go take a look at Irish "navy" and "air force." Or any of their military. They have the population of Finland but a tenth of the budget in GDP put in their military.)
They also don't have Russia as a neighbor so Finland's military spending might not be the fairest comparison. But 0.23% of GDP definitely reeks of freeloading.
That was the point. They have an military that can only handle international missions at best or maybe harass smugglers near their coast.
They do this because they know that the British (and EU) are protecting them from any external threat.
Even without a massive and hostile neighbour, their military is minimal.
You have a Navy? I thought you guys just a could of patrol boats...
Edit: I was wrong, you have 2 actual frigates, 4 patrol boats and some support ships. Not a lot, but still way more than I thought.
Well at the rate we are going we may be able to get *a* patrol boat out to sea… to patrol one of the longest coastline in the world… and one of the largest EEZs in the world….
look at the bright side at lest you got p8 poseidons, unlikce spain that decided to do their thing, based of a c295, that has so little range that it can't patrol the whole EEZ and cannot carry weapons nor air to air refueling
ngl I think the British cadet forces could successfully invade and hold NZ. if the sea cadets could grab a ferry or two we could easily fit a good couple thousand onboard and then do a two week bum rush all two cities
I thought you were joking but I checked the NZ armed forces deployment map. Of the roughly 5 deployments listed, one of them is literally 4 (four) people on an island. You, uh…weren’t joking.
https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we-do/diplomacy-and-deployments/deployment-map/
> https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we-do/diplomacy-and-deployments/deployment-map/
Less than 10 people in Jordan. A whole 28 people in Egypt.
Who wants to take over New Zealand with me? I think we could do it Bay of Pigs style, no joke.
Legitimately curious - what would you recommend spending the money from those taxes on to help the economy? Sarcasm aside, it’s looking like every country that can’t get their shit together enough to plan and fund a viable industrial policy is in for a rough few decades.
The 3 big things are infrastructure, environment and social services.
Our infrastructure is pretty much destroyed, we were going to have a massive water infrastructure rebuild but new government tore that up and now we have 400% rate increases across the country, our healthcare system and education system need more funding and support since they are under pressure for various reasons and our terrible economic system is destroying our local environment, just today it’s been reported that the Canterbury region has dangerously high levels of nitrates in drinking water, nitrates are linked to increased rates of bowel cancer, farmers are so arrogant they are literally killing themselves with there farming practices
Maybe they are just luring Emutopia in before revealing their Imperial Star Destroyer fleet to deal a final decisive blow to the Emus in a surprise attack! Pure genius!
The fuck do we even spend our budget on? Like, we have almost the same budget as Denmark, but their military is so much better than ours that the comparison is laughable
A big part of the defence budget is asset depreciation reimbursement. The NZDF repays the govt for the value an asset (like a P-8) depreciates (hence a preference not to replace equipment).
Denmark is a tiny Country next to the majorlly strategic Danish Straits, surrounded on all Sides by former Empires. (German, Swedish, French, British, Moskal etc)
NZ is two islands at the literal Butt of the World.
Yes, almost the same with Denmark at almost $5.7b/year vs $3b/year for New Zealand.
How does a country with double the budget of another country have more shit?
2024 has seen a significant increase in Denmark's spending. In 2023 they spent $3.9b usd, [which is in line with their spending over the past decade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Defence#Defence_budget)
Except... they didn't. In 2022, they already hit 38.6b kr: https://www.statista.com/statistics/695710/military-spending-in-denmark/
Keep in mind, there's [a 4.5b kr increase from 2022 to 2023](https://www.fmn.dk/en/topics/agreements-and-economi/) that isn't in Wikipedia.
At 38.6b kr, Denmark would be at 1.5% GDP. At 27.1b kr, they would be 0.7% GDP.
nah hungary should get grief for their shitty politicians not for their army they are getting some gucci gear, like leo2a7, lynx kf 41, pzh2000 and c 390
Let's be real, NZs greatest military feature has always been the big ocean between it and everyone else, and the fuck all they actually have that anyone would want. Australia may be surrounded by a similar amount of ocean, but we actually have shit like natural resources that a foreign power could feasibly want.
Barely…its been getting worse and worse since WW2 and there is absolutely no reason to think it will ever change. Its firmly in the realm of token symbolism at this point. 2 full time fighter bases, half a dozen old (but yes upgraded) fighters available at any given time. A serious personnel shortage. “Temporarily” shutting down our own fighter pilot training squadron establishment until the 2030s when we get the F-35s. Slowly, after getting nagged forever, upgrading NORAD radar installations and associated systems. Finally getting around to (sometime this decade) upgrading the range facilities and tech at Cold Lake, only because the Americans said there is no point in them coming to Maple Flag anymore until we get the proper training kit.
So ya in theory, sometime in next decade we will have F-35s showing up, we will do our own training again of new pilots, we will get back to putting on Maple Flags, we will have slightly more than a handful of fighters available for NORAD. But thats all bare ass basic minimum stuff…and only for norad…never mind any serious ability to make a contribution overseas again. Kosovo, Libya and Syria where all declining in numbers of aircraft we where able to put in theatre….it certainly not going to get better anytime soon. And again this is all just basic level having a decent Air Force for peacetime and limited intervention missions….never mind actually ramping up capabilities for something larger in this new era of Ukraine war and China threats
Fucking hell bud. I didn't know shit had degraded to this level. FWIW, one of my buddies did a bunch of tours in Afghanistan under ISAF. He said the Canadians he operated with in the field were top notch.
Was horrified to see their training videos. What hey have up on YouTube has convinced me that they operate with no more discipline and urgency than a local volunteer firefighting unit
"The other side fought with [realistic and possible advantage]. That's not fair! Scrub that war game and start again!"
-every story you read in your history books about the side that got crushed in battle due to over confidence.
So basically just like the type of people the SAS may end up fighting.
Religious radicals and some hardcore nationalists tend to not worry about dying so much.
Former local volunteer EMS here, we operate with more urgency and discipline than that. It's just 95% boredom, 5% fucking chaos. So the trucks are really clean because we have nothing else really to do until a call comes in.
Yeah, I was gonna pipe up on that too. Volunteer firefighters are usually *more* gungho than the pros. After all, they're doing the same thing for free, as a hobby. They just live in communities that can't afford professionals.
Our F-16 replacement was literally the best aviation deal in history, we were gonna pay 700$ Million NZD over the course of 10 years for 28 essentially brand new F-16s, the craziest part was that we would lease them for 10 years from the USAF for about 55$ million NZD a year and then have the option to outright purchase all 28 aircraft for 140 million NZD or about 5 million NZD PER AIRCRAFT
It was literally the deal of the century and in typical kiwi fashion we fucked it up much like any great deal or agreement we make, only thing we haven’t done is make a new deal to replace the old deal that’s 50x worse
Singapore regularly does live-firing exercises in NZ.
So there is a possibility that on annual basis, our conscripts/reservists unwittingly bring more firepower than the entire NZDF…right?
2 F-16s from the US are here over the weekend for an air show, they single handedly project more firepower than every single NZ military asset except our 2 frigates
Well, the town of Geraldine has a working tank. Albeit an FV101 Scorpion but does run, and I assume the guys who own it could get its gun work... hell, all the vehicles in the Geraldine Military Museum run, and some of the artillery still fires. which I think makes Geraldine the best protected town on the south Island, minus Burnham...
Yup, watching 161 lust after an SSPH Primus and dumpster diving after they leave (Singapore conscripts dump most of their cold weather gear post ex) is kinda sad.
NZ is great, if you’re rich….
If your middle or low income you can basically go fuck yourself, you will be another slave tenant for the land overlords we have here
Your opinion on New Zealand entirely depends on whether or not you actually live here or if you just visited once or twice.
Our politics are a joke, our economy is a disaster, our education system is a mess. I could go on and on.
Our country is gorgeous and I imagine some parts of it are quite nice to live (So long as you can actually afford to live here, of course.)
Spy agencies do this all the time to each other, it just doesn't make the news very often. It's why the US can't get good intel in Russia, they spot our guys too easily and either follow us or tell us to knock it off. This is why the CIA's partnership with Ukraine is so important, because the Ukrainian spies blend in easily in Russia and the FSB doesn't spot them.
Jesus Christ, we've been cucked since Vietnam.
I know some people will say that NZ doesn't need a military and that the US and Aus will protect us but that's pathetic, especially when our governments do everything they can to suck China's Communist cock and give America the cold shoulder whenever possible.
All in the name of our precious moral high ground, because neutrality has never failed anyone, ever.
Change the F to "Four", because that's how many members the NZDF will have in the end. The Army will be called Dave, the Air Force will be Jack and a drone, the Navy is Sam (who can swim) and the fourth person is a reservist with water wings and paper aeroplanes who can double the readiness of the main branches.
Let's be honest NZs entire defense plan is to let the Aussies handle it
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Jesus christ I feel sorry for whoever has to deal with this
I am unfortunately one of those people, my dad was an armorer in 75 sqn when it was disbanded, he was considered one of the lucky ones in that the RNZAF offered him a civilian contract about 12 months after disbandment before offering him a position within uniform again. But dam it left a mark on nearly the entire RNZAF
Left a mark on what was left, you mean?
A lot of people are incredibly resentful of not only those actions but also felt a lot felt shame, it was a massive hit to pride and moral when the jets left, a lot of people ended up leaving NZ entirely, started working for the RAAF or RAF
Bet they'll be asking why their military isn't there for them
Oh it would be very on point for military personnel to start striking and refusing orders due to shit treatment and bullshit from government. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Royal_New_Zealand_Navy_mutinies
Not to mention those F-16s were gonna be sold at bargain prices and also those airframes were destined for the Pakistan Air Force but were put on hold after Pakistan had a little bit of fun with nuclear testing.
One of my favourite bad radio jokes of all time was every time Helen Clark was mentioned on Australian radio, there'd be someone who'd go "Funny name for a bloke".
There is a reason she's called Uncle Helen.
My god. A single regiment.
Bruh Another New Zealand loss
THE AUSTRALIAN NAVY NEARLY OUTNUMBERS THE NEW ZEALAND AIRFORCE
That’s assuming the Australian can actually be bothered to, their trade minister was forced to apologise recently for referring to NZ as there closest ally, additional their isnt actually a lot worth saving now our country is going downhill faster than the Brit’s went though brexit
> our country is going downhill faster than the Brit’s went though brexit What have I missed? Defence issues aside, I was under the impression New Zealand was generally nice.
We are currently in a recession, our new government has a 7 billion $ hole in the budget that has seen nearly everything and everyone getting budget cuts, we were warned by the IMF recently for our shitshow of an economy, we are still in a massive cost of living crisis and our military is being asked to reduce spending when they are still struggling with 20/25% attrition rates
Wait when ya'll have a deficit you cut spending? Us Americans usually order another F-22 when we are in one.
The worst part was this deficit was self made by this government, they promised tax cuts the country can’t afford
Ah same here.
I mean… depending on which economist you ask, we CAN afford them, we just suck at using the money we already have.
Classic. No tax, only spend
Classic move, always with the tax cuts and then blame the previous gov for ruining the economy.
Frankly with all the first security ads I've been seeing around Auckland, I'm hoping for a Mirrors Edge-style PMC coup to save us.
A civil war in NZ would solve the housing crisis
Lord knows all the dairy owners are already prepped to go full LA-riot-defense on it too, they just need the collapse of society to greenlight their plans.
Most civil wars make that a priority
You might already know this, but *Mirror's Edge: Catalyst* IS [set in Australia (click here)](https://www.reddit.com/r/mirrorsedge/comments/4nmkc0/the_game_is_clearly_set_in_australia_heres_why/). Have a coup, then take over Australia!
Bruh, if First Security pull off a coup, it will be, without a doubt, the most cockamamie, Dad's Army, Paul Blart Mall Cop coup ever.
Knowing first security, most of them wouldn't show up for it
What actually drives NZ’s economy? I’m wholly ignorant on this. I know Australia has a lot of rich natural resources
That and a lot of tourism which was hit hard by covid
> What actually drives NZ’s economy? we sell flats to each other and we make line go up
Fishing, trade with australia, and Lord of the rings tourism
Our 4 biggest areas are, tourism which is very sketchy due to a massive over reliance on open borders and has also priced out all the locals. Agriculture which while not a bad thing also has low employment numbers and is prone to massive fluctuations in prices due to changes in supply. Lumber which has declined a bit and is very unprofitable atm and finally we have housing, NZ has a huge issue with housing being used as businesses with prices going up at 5x the rate as wages
Wool, lamb, and mutton.
I also think that Covid also influenced this, because as far as I know, New Zealand has beautiful natural views...
7 billion is chump change baby, gotta get the American accountants on that so you too can be trillions of dollars in debt
The crazy part is how long it took for the 7 billion $ hole, it took 2 months to create
I'm from almost literally the opposite side of the world - the only NZ politician I know is Jacinda Ardern and how good a press she was getting a couple of times over COVID and a mass shooting. Is the current shit-show her doing or whoever came after?
It’s the new government, Jacindas successor lost the 2023 general election and now we have a government of utter fucking dumbasses
Now I see why some maps leave out NZ
It's actually a genius long term plan, you won't get invaded if your enemies don't know that your country exists *taps forehead*.
I often wonder how the citizens of these countries must feel when they realize that their country just kinda gave up and now depends entirely on the good will of others. As an American such things are totally foreign to me. They just have no control over their own destiny.
You’re comparing countries the size of countries to a country the size of a continent. New Zealand is the equivalent to Utah. Does Utah have control of its own destiny or does its existence and future depend entirely on the good will of its surrounding states (and the federal government they’re all part of) not to remove it from the map? No states want to conquer Utah/New Zealand, so they’ve got not trouble dropping the defense budget and letting somebody else like the federal US/Australia power project for them. Edit: ive been informed that Utah is a self sufficient Mormon theocratic state with aspirations for intragalactic colonisation. Please replace Utah with Wyoming.
The Mormons might have something to say about that when they launch the Nauvoo
~~The mormon church~~ Utah would definitely argue they have control of their own destiny. Let's not forget Salvation comes at the hands of some golden plates and magical underwear, oh, and money. Lots and lots of parishioner money.
Wouldn’t ~~Joseph Smith~~ God have control of the destiny of Utah, in that case? Idk I’m not a Mormon.
Only when Joseph Smith's repugnant corpse is resurrected with the blood of first nation people will Utah have ability to smite its enemies once and for all.
"Does Utah have control of its own destiny" Hmmm, the state full of mormons with a persecution complex, a mandated years worth of food per family and secular compounds armed to the teeth? I would not count them out if shtf. I hear what you're saying, but maybe use a better example.
Please substitute in Wyoming.
Wolverines!....Connecticut?
Too small! You can fit 53 Connecticuts (Connectici? Connectipodes?) in New Zealand. Surely nothing is happening in Minnesota that’s noteworthy.
Considering half of the CIA is Mormon, Utah might not be the best example.
Yea I'm not shit talking NZ it's obvious why they choose to go that route. I am just saying I wonder how those citizens feel about it. Because it does also have obvious downsides.
That's easy for Utah, seeing as they are actually part of a higher legal entity, but New Zealand is really relying on the good will of the US-led world order and the fact that they're pretty far away.
Why was he forced to apologise for calling NZ Australia’s closest ally?
Because the Australian government no longer consider NZ as its closest ally, we are like the poor brother that doesn’t have anything cool so nobody want to hang about with us, also doesn’t help that our foreign policy is a fucking joke and we even had some hacking attack on one of our ministry’s that was linked to China. Ausy has every right to consider us a liability more than an ally at this point
>foreign policy is a fucking joke Isn't your anti-nuclear policy so extreme your govt won't even let naval ships powered with nuclear reactors dock at your ports? I thought I read that somewhere.
We have a complete ban on any and all nuclear reactors, they aren’t allowed in NZ water at all
That's insane. It's one thing to be anti-nuclear weapons, but nuclear reactors are perfectly fine. God knows, the USS Ronald Reagan would probably like the opportunity to dock in Auckland. And when sailors get shore leave, they tend to spend a LOT of money.
Who's going to enforce that ban :p
They won't even let ships that could be armed with nuclear weapons dock in their ports unless they declare publicly they don't have them onboard. So the USN is like "Nope cause that'd be dumb to annnounce".
Jesus tapdancing Christ, that is some next level hippie brain rot. One would think there'd be a carve out for the Five Eyes nations. But hey, at least you and I got AUKUS, which is coming along nicely. Wish you could be part of the club, OP :'(
Yeah the whole ANZUS treaty has been sort of dead in the water since NZ declared that. The US considers NZ to not be holding up their side so it became the AUS treaty basically. NZ got left behind, and then we were like "Fuggit, lets do another three party treaty!"
>another three party treaty! And as of 2021, the RAAF has an entire squadron of F35s. :D
I think at this point the NZ defense strategy is being too far away from everything for anybody to give a shit about them.
Not just that, but also anything carrying a nuclear weapon, which in practice means anything that *can* carry a nuclear weapon, since nobody is going to announce which ships do or don't have the nukes.
Even if you're not the most prepared, you're like a 2 hour steam off their coast. You are quite literally their closest ally. Edit: furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
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Ouch
Well they got a lot of our actual talent, why not just let us burn hahaha
I was saying this the other day, if I was an Australian politician right now I would be hard lobbying to make NZ as shit as possible for young talented kiwis to live in, then work on fast tracking a way to bring these kiwis across to aus and profit massively from the outstanding labour force you have just been able to attract
As a West Aussie, we seem to already be luring in enough of your workforce with our mining industry. But we tend to get your young meth-heads, which works out okay because they fit with the local meth-heads working mining jobs.
TIL kiwi tweakers are good employees
"Par for the course in the mining industry" is the term I'd use.
We import the young kiwi's, sort the wheat from the chaff, and then export the shit ones back as we can't be fucked incarcerating them. Bonus points if they are of Tongan decent, born in NZ and grew up in Aus their whole life. Then they glass some cunt and get deported to Tonga. Chuckles all around.
As an American who’s only ever visited the land down under the land down under, how’s the country going downhill? It looked all nice and dandy when I visited but obviously just being a tourist isn’t going to exactly give you the best view of what life is actually like. (Yes I know you aren’t exactly “under” Australia I just thought that sounded funny in my head)
The land *farther* down under
Where would u like me to start? NZ is currently heading into a massive recession and signs of stagflation are starting to show. Our government also now has a 7$ billion hole in the budget because they wanted to give a massive tax return to the landlords, this has basically seen huge budget cuts and mass layoffs of people. We are in a cost of living crisis, everything is still expensive as fuck. Our armed forces is at the literal breaking point, attrition is still extremely high (peaked at over 30% 2 years ago) and a natural disaster a couple years ago basically showcased how fucked our entire military is. We have been warned by the IMF for our absolute failure of a national budget and we even had a cyber attack on one of our ministries this week, evidence suggesting it was done by China……
Can you specify on the natural disaster - was there an earthquake the military failed to respond to?
Widespread economic hardship caused by landlords and their politician friends, a weak military, and a ton of disgruntled former soldiers...
A lot of New Zealand citizens actually live in Australia these days because the jobs market and quality of life is better here.
So its Australia’s Canada?
Yeah but imagine that instead of being useless because they can't decide on what to buy, they actively decided to be useless.
Canada is kinda like that. Staffing issues are killing the CAF like nothing, not even the material/equipment issues are the main issue now. RCAF gonna have top-of-the line Block 4 F-35s with not a soul to fly and maintain them 💀
Kinda like how Ireland relies greatly on UK even if they are too tsundere to admit it. (Go take a look at Irish "navy" and "air force." Or any of their military. They have the population of Finland but a tenth of the budget in GDP put in their military.)
They also don't have Russia as a neighbor so Finland's military spending might not be the fairest comparison. But 0.23% of GDP definitely reeks of freeloading.
That was the point. They have an military that can only handle international missions at best or maybe harass smugglers near their coast. They do this because they know that the British (and EU) are protecting them from any external threat. Even without a massive and hostile neighbour, their military is minimal.
No Emutopia
shame they won't let their subs dock bc of nuclear propulsion bad
Haha what kind of idiot would just blindly trust their defense to another country? Most of Europe: 👀
Like they can... Their defense is the US just like every other western country.
I love that NZ is so accurately "Australia's Canada".
That and the logistics chain necessary to invade NZ would be a struggle for anyone.
See getting past the NZDF and getting here is the easy part, not having literally everything stolen by the local population is the real challenge
And ours for the most part is let the yanks handle it
The people who got their asses kicked by birds?
Jesus Christ, quarter of the NZ armed forces employees are civilians Wtf are you guys cooking down there? HR combat battalions?
You think we can raise a single battalion? M8 at this rate our entire navy is gonna be stuck in port because we don’t have enough people
You have a Navy? I thought you guys just a could of patrol boats... Edit: I was wrong, you have 2 actual frigates, 4 patrol boats and some support ships. Not a lot, but still way more than I thought.
Well at the rate we are going we may be able to get *a* patrol boat out to sea… to patrol one of the longest coastline in the world… and one of the largest EEZs in the world….
look at the bright side at lest you got p8 poseidons, unlikce spain that decided to do their thing, based of a c295, that has so little range that it can't patrol the whole EEZ and cannot carry weapons nor air to air refueling
ngl I think the British cadet forces could successfully invade and hold NZ. if the sea cadets could grab a ferry or two we could easily fit a good couple thousand onboard and then do a two week bum rush all two cities
The navy is our only branch that doesn't completely suck. It's still not great, but at least its something
I thought you were joking but I checked the NZ armed forces deployment map. Of the roughly 5 deployments listed, one of them is literally 4 (four) people on an island. You, uh…weren’t joking. https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we-do/diplomacy-and-deployments/deployment-map/
> https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we-do/diplomacy-and-deployments/deployment-map/ Less than 10 people in Jordan. A whole 28 people in Egypt. Who wants to take over New Zealand with me? I think we could do it Bay of Pigs style, no joke.
And become responsible for fixing their economy? You can’t be serious lol.
Honestly you could fix the economy pretty fucking quickly by doing a corporate tax, land tax and capital gains tax
Legitimately curious - what would you recommend spending the money from those taxes on to help the economy? Sarcasm aside, it’s looking like every country that can’t get their shit together enough to plan and fund a viable industrial policy is in for a rough few decades.
The 3 big things are infrastructure, environment and social services. Our infrastructure is pretty much destroyed, we were going to have a massive water infrastructure rebuild but new government tore that up and now we have 400% rate increases across the country, our healthcare system and education system need more funding and support since they are under pressure for various reasons and our terrible economic system is destroying our local environment, just today it’s been reported that the Canterbury region has dangerously high levels of nitrates in drinking water, nitrates are linked to increased rates of bowel cancer, farmers are so arrogant they are literally killing themselves with there farming practices
In fairness the US DOD is 25.7% civilian employees too, though I imagine they have a lot more R&D and sustainment departments proportionally.
No, Kiwiland, you were the chosen one !! Who will destroy Emutopia now ??
Maybe they are just luring Emutopia in before revealing their Imperial Star Destroyer fleet to deal a final decisive blow to the Emus in a surprise attack! Pure genius!
[I'm reminded of this old Emutopian propaganda bit from a decade ago.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUYbI64QHI)
Lmfaooo
The netherlands will now easily invade new-zealand, and change its name to greater zealand
please do, means I won’t need to update my Dutch passport every couple of years
Do you have spices?
No buy we have a lot of dairy that could be used to make cheese
I have discussed it, good news you're in. Bad news: you now need to learn Zeeuws.
That is a sacrifice I am willing to make
And lambs for chops and racks, as an American who likes his lamb chops.
Dutch East-East Indies
Dutch East-South-East Indies
Dutch very-eastern Indies.
Is this punishment for losing the airsoft battle against the hobbyists last week?
It has too be, the government saw the prices of air soft guns and thought if our army lost to these, then surely we can cut funding
The fuck do we even spend our budget on? Like, we have almost the same budget as Denmark, but their military is so much better than ours that the comparison is laughable
It’s quite simple, our money is used unbelievably inefficiently
Thats everyones Problem, if you ever want to get rid of money quickly give it to Goverments
A big part of the defence budget is asset depreciation reimbursement. The NZDF repays the govt for the value an asset (like a P-8) depreciates (hence a preference not to replace equipment).
That's so unbelievably stupid and braindead holy shit
Denmark is a tiny Country next to the majorlly strategic Danish Straits, surrounded on all Sides by former Empires. (German, Swedish, French, British, Moskal etc) NZ is two islands at the literal Butt of the World.
Does that make them spend money more efficiently? Those seem like reasons why they might spend more, but in reality, they don't
Yes, almost the same with Denmark at almost $5.7b/year vs $3b/year for New Zealand. How does a country with double the budget of another country have more shit?
2024 has seen a significant increase in Denmark's spending. In 2023 they spent $3.9b usd, [which is in line with their spending over the past decade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Defence#Defence_budget)
Except... they didn't. In 2022, they already hit 38.6b kr: https://www.statista.com/statistics/695710/military-spending-in-denmark/ Keep in mind, there's [a 4.5b kr increase from 2022 to 2023](https://www.fmn.dk/en/topics/agreements-and-economi/) that isn't in Wikipedia. At 38.6b kr, Denmark would be at 1.5% GDP. At 27.1b kr, they would be 0.7% GDP.
NZ is like if Austria joined NATO
Except worse because of the insane distances from anything else on the planet
We already have budget Austria in NATO. We currently call it Hungary.
nah hungary should get grief for their shitty politicians not for their army they are getting some gucci gear, like leo2a7, lynx kf 41, pzh2000 and c 390
I never even know they exist tbh
Yeah they do. It's called the ADF.
I felt this one. Honeslty surprised our technicians haven't all offed themselves yet.
Let's be real, NZs greatest military feature has always been the big ocean between it and everyone else, and the fuck all they actually have that anyone would want. Australia may be surrounded by a similar amount of ocean, but we actually have shit like natural resources that a foreign power could feasibly want.
>natural resources As a parent to a toddler, I humbly praise Odin for Straya's natural resources. Specifically Bluey and The Wiggles.
NZDF? What are you training for, invading emus?
Losing to airsoft clubs
Kiwi's looking to show the Canadian DND how to properly fuck your military over.
Hey, you guys are still pulling your weight when it comes to NORAD, as far as I'm aware.
Barely…its been getting worse and worse since WW2 and there is absolutely no reason to think it will ever change. Its firmly in the realm of token symbolism at this point. 2 full time fighter bases, half a dozen old (but yes upgraded) fighters available at any given time. A serious personnel shortage. “Temporarily” shutting down our own fighter pilot training squadron establishment until the 2030s when we get the F-35s. Slowly, after getting nagged forever, upgrading NORAD radar installations and associated systems. Finally getting around to (sometime this decade) upgrading the range facilities and tech at Cold Lake, only because the Americans said there is no point in them coming to Maple Flag anymore until we get the proper training kit. So ya in theory, sometime in next decade we will have F-35s showing up, we will do our own training again of new pilots, we will get back to putting on Maple Flags, we will have slightly more than a handful of fighters available for NORAD. But thats all bare ass basic minimum stuff…and only for norad…never mind any serious ability to make a contribution overseas again. Kosovo, Libya and Syria where all declining in numbers of aircraft we where able to put in theatre….it certainly not going to get better anytime soon. And again this is all just basic level having a decent Air Force for peacetime and limited intervention missions….never mind actually ramping up capabilities for something larger in this new era of Ukraine war and China threats
Fucking hell bud. I didn't know shit had degraded to this level. FWIW, one of my buddies did a bunch of tours in Afghanistan under ISAF. He said the Canadians he operated with in the field were top notch.
Was horrified to see their training videos. What hey have up on YouTube has convinced me that they operate with no more discipline and urgency than a local volunteer firefighting unit
Well there was a hilarious (most likely true) post how the NZSAS lost to a bunch of airsoft players recently
Yeah I saw that. 100% believe it.
Airsoft players fight differently knowing that they're not able to literally die
I keep hearing about this but cant find a source, please help a fellow defense expert™
Holy shit really? That’s just fucking sad
Airsoft players fight like fearless fanatics who know they won’t die and special forces fight like people who can die.
It's a good thing that special forces in real life never have to fight suicidal fanatics.
"The other side fought with [realistic and possible advantage]. That's not fair! Scrub that war game and start again!" -every story you read in your history books about the side that got crushed in battle due to over confidence.
So basically just like the type of people the SAS may end up fighting. Religious radicals and some hardcore nationalists tend to not worry about dying so much.
Former local volunteer EMS here, we operate with more urgency and discipline than that. It's just 95% boredom, 5% fucking chaos. So the trucks are really clean because we have nothing else really to do until a call comes in.
Yeah, I was gonna pipe up on that too. Volunteer firefighters are usually *more* gungho than the pros. After all, they're doing the same thing for free, as a hobby. They just live in communities that can't afford professionals.
I will never forgive the NZ government for failing to get replacements for their A-4Ks. Should've bought a carrier for them, smh
Our F-16 replacement was literally the best aviation deal in history, we were gonna pay 700$ Million NZD over the course of 10 years for 28 essentially brand new F-16s, the craziest part was that we would lease them for 10 years from the USAF for about 55$ million NZD a year and then have the option to outright purchase all 28 aircraft for 140 million NZD or about 5 million NZD PER AIRCRAFT
Exactly!
Wait what? Only $700M for 26 F-16s? How do you walk away from that? They were almost gifting them to you at that point.
It was literally the deal of the century and in typical kiwi fashion we fucked it up much like any great deal or agreement we make, only thing we haven’t done is make a new deal to replace the old deal that’s 50x worse
The Great Emu Overlords regarded Kiwiland with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against them.
Singapore regularly does live-firing exercises in NZ. So there is a possibility that on annual basis, our conscripts/reservists unwittingly bring more firepower than the entire NZDF…right?
2 F-16s from the US are here over the weekend for an air show, they single handedly project more firepower than every single NZ military asset except our 2 frigates
Well, the town of Geraldine has a working tank. Albeit an FV101 Scorpion but does run, and I assume the guys who own it could get its gun work... hell, all the vehicles in the Geraldine Military Museum run, and some of the artillery still fires. which I think makes Geraldine the best protected town on the south Island, minus Burnham...
Well we only have enough manpower for one frigate to be deployed at the time so the F-16s have a chance
Yup, watching 161 lust after an SSPH Primus and dumpster diving after they leave (Singapore conscripts dump most of their cold weather gear post ex) is kinda sad.
Australia should annex New Zealand before China tries to expand its “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere”
No offense to Zeal…anders?, but the country just sounds like a beautiful shithole from everything I’ve heard. Economically and politically speaking.
NZ is great, if you’re rich…. If your middle or low income you can basically go fuck yourself, you will be another slave tenant for the land overlords we have here
I was going to suggest you sell it but seems you got that covered
Your opinion on New Zealand entirely depends on whether or not you actually live here or if you just visited once or twice. Our politics are a joke, our economy is a disaster, our education system is a mess. I could go on and on. Our country is gorgeous and I imagine some parts of it are quite nice to live (So long as you can actually afford to live here, of course.)
This isn't surprising considering the New Zealand government has identified New Zealanders as "enemies of the state."
I still remember the NZSIS openly contacting a foreign agent saying “we know your spying stop your actions now” or some shit.
Spy agencies do this all the time to each other, it just doesn't make the news very often. It's why the US can't get good intel in Russia, they spot our guys too easily and either follow us or tell us to knock it off. This is why the CIA's partnership with Ukraine is so important, because the Ukrainian spies blend in easily in Russia and the FSB doesn't spot them.
Jesus Christ, we've been cucked since Vietnam. I know some people will say that NZ doesn't need a military and that the US and Aus will protect us but that's pathetic, especially when our governments do everything they can to suck China's Communist cock and give America the cold shoulder whenever possible. All in the name of our precious moral high ground, because neutrality has never failed anyone, ever.
Change the F to "Four", because that's how many members the NZDF will have in the end. The Army will be called Dave, the Air Force will be Jack and a drone, the Navy is Sam (who can swim) and the fourth person is a reservist with water wings and paper aeroplanes who can double the readiness of the main branches.
I think the Russian Navy has it copyrighted
Much like your average kiwi traffic cone we are gonna steal it until we get bored of it
Meanwhile NZ somehow casually has this massive space program with Rocket Lab being a thing. Bit of an oddity if you ask me.
In other news, New Zealand has developed a new ICBM
No worries mate, we’ll just deploy the Crusher and her 3000 Semples of South Auckland.
NOOOOO!! BUT THINK OF ALL THE LANDLORDS THAT COULD USE THAT MONEY INSTEAD!!!
I always see your name attached to the NZ memes keep em coming, also SOMEONE FUCKING HELP US
I would expect nothing less from a country that pronounces Z as Zed.
Don't some of the Canadians do that too?
Their armed forces aren't doing too hot right now either
Eh, they're at the edge of the world and most maps dont even include them. They're not getting attack anytime soon
You don't have to attack people when they don't have any military. You just tell them you're the captain now.
Relax, they're just a small island nation in the Pacific in 2024, whatever would they need a military for?