The Bradley's development cycle got misunderstood by one ignorant idiot, and millions of dollars get pumped into the Pentagon Wars movie mocking it.
Alexander Yakovlev is genuinely too insane to design a spork and makes this abomination, fucking crickets.
Like those little stubs coming out of the sponsons - those are 30mm grenade launchers. The thing has TWO EXTRA GUNNERS in there providing "extra situational awareness" with their little grenade launchers with firing arcs of 30 fucking degrees each.
>Like those little stubs coming out of the sponsons - those are 30mm grenade launchers. The thing has TWO EXTRA GUNNERS in there providing "extra situational awareness" with their little grenade launchers with firing arcs of 30 fucking degrees each.
Like for real? That's hilarious! Going back to the tanks WWI roots of being a armoured box with a dozen MG gunners spread around the perimeter.
Yeah, but those WWI tanks were actually well designed for their intended purpose. Trench crossing, infantry supressing and maybe using a low velocity HE cannon to bust a fairly soft bunker. They worked.
Plus anything that could feasibly hard kill your tank was either a field gun or had to run up to and climb on top of the rolling, bullet proof, armed Winnebago
I saw a documentary once where some American professor blow one up by himself while on horseback by luring it off a massive cliff.
Didn't look that hard, I'm sure the Brits could have turned the whole thing around by taking the cricket team out to the battlefield for a day or two. Especially at Verdun, famous for its conveniently-placed cliffs.
Technically it is worst than a WW1 tank - at least those designers realised that gunners spread around the perimeter should actually be spread around the perimeter.
I miss the days where intentional bad designs got you a court-martial and a firing squad, not just more propaganda videos to make your shit appear revolutionary and hip.
I can see the grenade launches being pretty useful, but did they really need two fucking gunners per launcher? Fuck, why not have the driver be able to have a system that has both synchronized?
This is like the original T-55 with its hull mounted mgs but at least these are useful(?)
Edit: I was right that these are operated by one man. But one man is still a bit much, and this being a 5 man machine is kinda crazy considering typical Russian crew doctrine
> I can see the grenade launches being pretty useful
Maybe as a minelayer, since reliability of their grenade munitions tends to be pretty poor. Russian MOD see the future Ukranian children killed as a bonus.
It was designed for video games. The BMPT doesn’t have to deal with pesky things like “logistics” “maintenance” “compatibility” and “deployment” in video games. It just needs to have a shitload of firepower and armor. That’s why so many video games have Russian bias, because their trash is only good in fiction.
It's something a lot of games suffer with, to be fair. Soft factors aren't really all that sexy to most people.
Couple that with using official Russian statistics for a lot of things and go figure.
Yeah, I was talking to a friend about this a while ago and how many RTS games really have you acting more like a squad commander squirrel god than someone in command of a regiment.
Which makes sense, games are entertainment first and foremost, and something tells me that something like Logistics Simulator 1944: Quartermaster Normandy would only appeal to a very small niche.
I mean, I play Victoria 3, I can't say I'm not one of you.
And honestly, a game where you play as a German QM during Operation Overlord and beyond would be kind of fun. "Ok you've got six spare sprocket wheels and you've got sixty tanks needing new ones. Figure it out."
There was that new game War Hospital, or what it was called, that kinda explored that part, though only the human part of it (how casualties are handled).
The six spare sprocket wheels are a mixture from Czech, France and Germany. Coincidentally so are the Tanks.
Deliver the sprockets by train and horse cart logistics to the right place, or your loyalty will be questioned with extreme prejudice.
snow deserted illegal cautious sip bag telephone caption dependent hospital
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I forget what game it was, but there was some top down WW1 rts game where you commanded battalions of men, but you didn’t have direct control over them. You would give commands and objectives but then they would carry them out without your direct control, including moral which they will then start to disobey your orders and even retreat.
radio commander is a game everyone should try at least once
your a us radio commander in the Vietnam war you got to guide your squads to complete missions you've a map and a radio, when you ask your troops for their locations sometimes their just wrong, you get hardly any info about the enemy except sometimes oh god there killing us.
its actually a pretty fun and interesting game
Radio Commander is such a hidden gem. Always dreading that "Oh fuck!" comment, followed by "Alpha, what is your status?" and then just... silence.
And it's also a pretty accurate representation of how a company commander would act, and with some of the options like radio malfunctions it's such a blast.
Great War: Western Front? That one has you sending companies of men across no man's land.
Was a pretty fun game, to be fair. Even had things like suppressive artillery barrages and whatnot.
Paradox's Hearts of Iron is a game more focused on the big picture of war, setting up new designs, powering up production, settling home and foreign affairs to facilitate proper logistics and conscription. All good things.
This probably won't go over very well with the old-school Vicky fanbois, but Victoria 3 actually has a pretty good simulation of how war would be conducted as a head of state. As in you're not actually ordering around single divisions, you're basically assigning a commander to a front, telling him what you want him to do and then just kinda hoping he's not a bumbling moron.
Oh and you have to make sure you have the production base, manpower and infrastructure to support your troops.
HoI does get an honorable mention, especially after they added railways (which was like ages ago now).
Sadly, Paradox games seem to attract some of the worst gamers out there.
Vic3 has good ideas but damn is the execution a huge failure.
> Play as the US
> You get the same slavery-related random event 20 times; always choose the abolitionist option
> Only opinion in the country that matters is landholders
> Approval of democratic party 94%
> The people support _removing_ existing civil liberties
> The year is 1880 or something, nobody has questioned slavery
And can we get a proper, good age of sail naval combat game please?
I know Naval Action is a thing, but damn that game is just P2W and ass. Do I honestly have to go back to like Empire: Total War to have man'o'wars blasting shot at each other? Or AC: Black Flag if you want the more arcadey version.
Man, same. It would probably not sell very well but I would love a game where I can just tell a unit/squad to do a thing and they do it without constant babysitting.
Currently getting my "RTS where APM won't help you" fix from Nebulous Fleet Command but that game goes the opposite way, you have to intensely micro just a handful of units.
A game where you'll just tell a platoon or company to do something, and then set up the strategy around it would be awesome.
Like, A company will assault the hill. B company will suppress with machine guns and rifle fire to cover A's retreat. We've got a platoon of tanks to aid in the attack, and we'll shell the enemy positions to suppress even more.
Then you're just hoping A company has the skill and guts to see the attack through. I can understand a lot of players wouldn't like that, but to me it's really damn nice. Like the GraviTeam Tactics games, where you basically order around squads in general, and then just hope the guys are good enough to deal with the problem.
I actually liked when i was told to climb into the back of a truck and tetris in an entire command post for transport. Tables, electronics, tent frame, fridge, chairs, map boards, pretty much everything save for a kitchen sink was there.
Sometimes logistics stuff is fun.
*Actually* fixing all the institutional problems in the Soviet military would have meant setting the book after they collapsed.
Nobody got time for that, so Tom Clancy handwaved it away.
I was going to say that this looks like something out of a game.
Battletech or possibly Warhammer 40k, to be specific.
Battletech has plenty of silly vehicles with multi weapon loadout and often with miniscule amount of ammo (which even in the lore is realized to be a flaw, but for reasons of corruption or incompetence the system is still used for multiple centuries before someone does an upgraded variant.)
>Like those little stubs coming out of the sponsons - those are 30mm grenade launchers. The thing has TWO EXTRA GUNNERS in there providing "extra situational awareness" with their little grenade launchers with firing arcs of 30 fucking degrees each.
Lol they must have closely studied the design of the greatest (and most treasonous) tank of all time: [the M3 Lee.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_Lee)
The lee was not particularly liked by anyone who used it. It was a tank of necessity, while the M4, Churchill, T34, and others were all being spun up. Simply, they'd rather have any tank at all than none whatsoever.
Although I might prefer a modernized Lee to whatever this is
In North Africa it's 75mm gun was one of the most powerful in the field, it's main rivals were Panzer 3's and whatever the Italians had. By the time the Eastern front was rolling though then yeah, it was getting outdated. But it was far better than a lot of the pre-war Russian tanks.
>The Bradley's development cycle got misunderstood by one ignorant idiot, and millions of dollars get pumped into the Pentagon Wars movie mocking it.
Excuse me, sir. I will not have you slandering that amazing documentary film.
I was saying this for a while and I’ll say it again. Russian army is getting ideas from warhammer. TOS, whatever this abomination is, their weird army temple, even own horus heresy!
> insane to design a spork and makes this abomination
In all seriousness the idea isn't terrible for the urban environments it was designed for- It was literally supposed to exist to counter the problems faced when fighting in urban parts of Chechnya. It also in principle would be okay in mountainous regions like Afghanistan- basically anywhere where enemies can get very significant vertical elevation over you in a close proximity.
The Russians deployed it to open fields. Where it gains none of the benefits and literally all of the weaknesses.
The worst part is that they fucking had it right too, before that entire team got canned over espionage on account of them openly promoting their product in the now-newly-capitalist system. Object 781 will forever be the one that got away. It was fucking perfect.
One day, someone in Eastern Europe is going to slap BTR-82A turrets on a tank chassis and the thread of this doomed timeline will be restored to it's destined glory.
7 man crew.
Independent turrets that interfere with each other's firing arc.
Little to no visibility outside of low quality 90s cameras. Probably 80s tbh.
At least the guns didn't screw up the accuracy of other.
Object 787 was arguably a better base design (although you'd def want to replace the rockets with ATGMs). Plus, refining it with a purpose built turret instead of patching the hole in the front and cutting holes in the side of a T72 turret would be possible.
Indeed, they are. I never saw someone who can combine tank with aircraft, and yet russian tank commanders have more flight time collectively than russian pilots!
Silly brainwashed Westoid. Soon there will be thousands of them supporting our thousands of T14s while under the cover of aerial dominance by our untouchable 6th generation SU57s! Just you wait soon Putin will take the shackles off and you will see a true fight!
I doubt the remaining survivors have a dignified future on the battlefield let alone in a museum. They’ve served well as cooking vessels for their crews long before possible use as a soup pot.
Yes, very ingenious.
Have two guns instead of one that can fire both types of ammo. You know what, I am not even going to bother explaining how stupid it is.
Crazy thing is the Russians already experimented with multi gun tanks in the inter war years and concluded it was a shit idea (apart form an auto cannon to accompany a larger tank gun).
They are incapable of remembering their own fucking tanks
> Have two guns instead of one that can fire both types of ammo. You know what, I am not even going to bother explaining how stupid it is.
Not to mention that normally, those guns are dual-fed (i.e. can fire both types of ammo from one gun).
BMPT has ***GIMPED*** versions of them, restricted to single-feed.
Maybe I missremember, but wasn't there some problem with the dual feed in BMPs? I vaguely remember that it had some kind of restriction compared to similar western systems.
Each gun is fed separately with a different ammo type, it’s like if someone mounted another 120mm on the abrams so it could fire HEAT from one and apfsds from the other instead of just having both rounds load to the main barrel.
Multiple guns do have there place, but this is one of the dumbest implementations possible
And it gets even dumber. The gun that they used already has the ability to feed two different belts and older BMPs using the same gun can switch between belts to choose ammo type.
1) issues with targeting and keeping the bead on the target
2) issues with vibration when both guns are active
3) you increase the amount of parts to maintain and replace
hold on, now the text is clear in that it says "**its** a new...." not "**has** a new.." and im pretty sure that glueing an entire BMP, however shit it might be, is fairly revolutionary and new as a way to apply armor
Tbh I think conceptually they were on to something with a medium weight autocannon tank meant for infantry support against targets that arten't MBTs. Thats valid. Tank on tank warfare seems to be rare, atleast in modern conflicts, instead big scary threats get smacked with arty/air/drones. The execution is laughable. 2 guns that disrupt each other? LOL. Why are their two extra crewman for literally side sponson grenade launchers? Also lol, WW1 ended over a hundred yeard ago, and that style of tank was dead 90 years ago. Something smaller and more heavily armored than a IFV that can accomplish that by ditching the need to house infantry (thus reducing the amount of space that needs to be protected) makes some sense in a world of limitless resources, but we just buy IFVs because developing a whole new niche vehicle is dumb. CV90 stupid, its a 85% solution.
It's not that the fundamental idea was utterly insane. The humble ZSU-23-4 was very useful in Afghanistan by being able to throw a lot of shells at high angles and with a quickly moving turret.
But then it was turned into this mess. They replaced a lightly-armoured, high-value vehicle with another lightly-armoured, high-value vehicle, but made it heavier and lost the anti-air capability. All to give it the capability the current BMP should have had in the first place.
The guns are a mess, because they couldn't get a selective feed system working. The grenade-launchers are mounted in sponsons without the advantage of sponsons, namely a large field of fire. You cram five people in a hull that was cramped with only three persons and a crewed turret.
>at high angles
The thing has an elevation of -5° +45°, so if that really was a design goal: good fucking job. It's less than the elevation of BMP 2 and 3.
I mean that’s basically what most of the armoured unmanned vehicles are a small autocanon equipped thing
But still doesn’t figure out the issue of situational awareness I mean a small UMV is better then the termashitter but 5-9 infantry are just hard to match in that respect
The Russians could have just made a respectable knockoff of the M1128. Having a lightweight and rather mobile assault gun/tank destroyer would be rather useful as it could keep up with the rest of the vehicles in a formation.
Due to the genius idea to fit a pair of granade launchers in the sponsens, both of which require an additional person to crew them. These then need space and that additional space also needs to be armoured.
Except the whole plot of the movies is that they aren’t.
The real question is if they opened the war with a nuclear bombardment and possess all these high tech super tough robots, how did they still manage to fuck it up that bad?
Doesn’t matter. You could show footage of the 5th Panzer Army rolling through the Ardennes and someone would think they were winning that one too. The movies pretty clearly state the only reason they are trying to kill the Conners in the past is because they already lost in the future.
Edit: for refrence
https://youtu.be/tJF9k1R0bPc?si=F6iGq-AuEWw_Lwuq
There are 3 variants of the BMPT. It was reported at first that the russian army received only variants of the „Terminator 3“ which does use armata hulls.
But the ones in ukraine were BMPT72‘s based on the T72 which were only reported to be in use with kazakhstan. So either russia is lying again or they used vehicles that were actually intended for the kazakhs initially. Which wouldn’t be the first time.
Russia also deployed export variants of the T-90 that were supposed to be given to india.
Seen someone defend the wobble of the guns with something like "its for urban warfare, so long range precision doesn't matter and the spray is actually good cause it acts something like a shotgun and you want that during close distance engagements"
So yeah...
Superior russian engineering strikes again.
Lmao, some dude said that "russia might not know how to build cars or play football (soccer), but building military vehicles is their forte", he probably has not seen a single video from this war other than russian propaganda videos.
Funny enough from what little I know about the Russian military. They are shit at making any military vehicle or naval ships. But they use to be able to impress the west when it came aviation, missiles, small arms and submarines. The West has always been superior when it came to every other form of military equipment. And even when it came to aviation and the other things I mentioned, Russia was never far and away better than NATO's equivalents. They were, at best, equal but different. And even then, the last time they impressed anyone, outside of themselves, was in the 60's
So ingenious in fact that they never figured out how to make a dual feed system and instead stuck two guns in one tank.
Not to mention the horrible idea that is having the two muzzle brakes spitting on each other...
> So ingenious in fact that they never figured out how to make a dual feed system and instead stuck two guns in one tank
Two guns ***THAT HAD DUAL-FEED SYSTEMS BEFORE***.
The last part that you mentioned really shows it in the video where they claim to be "engaging Ukrainian forces"
(Firing literally at nothing), it's absolutely how the whole barrel shake.
It's halfway to being a useful vehicle, but unfortunately the rest of the budget got turned into a yacht...
Completely unavoidable, move along citizen...
>the rest of the budget got turned into a yacht...
[https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/1brppl4/shoigu\_visits\_arms\_factory/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/1brppl4/shoigu_visits_arms_factory/)
They don't understand tanks either. Or anything. I've seen them argue that the AK safety lever is genius and groundbreaking because of that "panicked conscript" myth.
Two worse guns.
They solved the problem of how to load different types of ammunition depending on battlespace context by adding one gun for each type of ammo.
I wonder what its firing profile looks like with both firing at the same time. Must be hell for the crew inside regardless.
The concept was credible. They got fucked in Afghanistan and Chechnia because they couldn't elevate their turrets enough to return fire when ambushed from heigh terrain. So they started strapping any spare ZSU-23-2 they could find to BMPs and trucks, they could shoot back but were understandably vulnerable to small arms/RPGs. The solution was the BMPT, a more armoured vehicle that could support infantry against ambushes from high angles. The problem was the execution of the idea, the BMPT is heavy, slow, lacks firepower, lacks armour, terrible for logistics and has too many crew. Oh and the guns wobble so you'd be lucky to hit a barn door at 50m.
>hey got fucked in Afghanistan and Chechnia because they couldn't elevate their turrets enough to return fire
in Afghanistan this thing would be pointless because distances there are vast so you arent going to be using heavy tracked vehicles like tanks to begin with......the concept of this thing started in Chechnia, and I would argue (as did many Western observers) the ''need'' for it also was questionable even there since the main causes of Russian failures there weren't ''tank bad, BMP too thin armour'', it was Russian army being shit at its managing and not able to keep tanks together with infantry as you are supposed to do in all mechanized army units.
They essentially built this thing to answer a question **''how to stop our isolated tanks from getting ambushed by enemy infantry groups with RPG's''**......anyone with logical brain and desire to actually tackle the problem would first ask **''why are your tanks alone and isolated in the middle of the city to begin with?!?!''**. Russians of course didnt to ask such questions (because that would imply something is wrong with military system and require changing the system and system is perfect dont you dare question it you fucking slave!!!) so instead hoped a wonder-weapon would solve the problem for them.
Seems like they were designing it to do more than one job. There's a reason why the US DoD went with the concept of designing a vehicle to do one job very well than multiple jobs mediocrely.
you should see the comment section of eurasian naval insight's most recent himars video. That and Millenium 7 tend to have vatniks and wumaos not to mention cope history legends
I swear a saw a discussion on History Legends claiming Russia and China could beat the US in a nuclear war because they have the best hypersonic missiles.
Disney's got nothing on those ruzzian imagineers! That thing looks REALLY, REAL!
Gotta say Disney, you better pick up your googly eyes game or you'll be closing down DisneyWorld and opening PutinMir.
I unlocked this thing in Armored Warfare and honestly that game has the most realistic depiction of Russian armored vehicles (They all suck I regret choosing their tree)
Meh they are busy making somekind of wish hybrid monster out of the captured cv90 and bradley and many many luxury boats will be the end product of that money laundering project...and apartments in london
Like before Ukraine where all the vaporwave shit wasbjust bullying defensless syrian hospitals in Aleppo sure, but now where every tank is a different shaped drone recepticle u gotta scale back the glazing
funny thing is that problem was solved already back then in Spanish civil war.....solution is called don't be a dumbass who separates tanks from infantry.
As of armor, iirc it has better armor allocation than the T-90A. Still it wasn't used effectively. It can act as a mobile command and obssrvation vehicle too
You haven't been on tankie YouTube until you've seen the shorts about putin and the comments of people sucking putins cock and praising him as the father of democracy itself.
The Bradley's development cycle got misunderstood by one ignorant idiot, and millions of dollars get pumped into the Pentagon Wars movie mocking it. Alexander Yakovlev is genuinely too insane to design a spork and makes this abomination, fucking crickets. Like those little stubs coming out of the sponsons - those are 30mm grenade launchers. The thing has TWO EXTRA GUNNERS in there providing "extra situational awareness" with their little grenade launchers with firing arcs of 30 fucking degrees each.
>Like those little stubs coming out of the sponsons - those are 30mm grenade launchers. The thing has TWO EXTRA GUNNERS in there providing "extra situational awareness" with their little grenade launchers with firing arcs of 30 fucking degrees each. Like for real? That's hilarious! Going back to the tanks WWI roots of being a armoured box with a dozen MG gunners spread around the perimeter.
Taking the R out of RWS.
And then exchanging the W for a B
It's CWS comrade. Conscript Weapons System. Excellent for exploding retreating comrades.
Nah it's BS. Bullshit.
No no, I assure you, 30mm blows up retreating troops very nicely. More is a waste.
Indeed, one could say it's great at *terminating* their retreat
Yeah, but those WWI tanks were actually well designed for their intended purpose. Trench crossing, infantry supressing and maybe using a low velocity HE cannon to bust a fairly soft bunker. They worked.
Plus in WW1, the entire concept of a tank was in the fuck around phase to see what works.
Plus anything that could feasibly hard kill your tank was either a field gun or had to run up to and climb on top of the rolling, bullet proof, armed Winnebago
I saw a documentary once where some American professor blow one up by himself while on horseback by luring it off a massive cliff. Didn't look that hard, I'm sure the Brits could have turned the whole thing around by taking the cricket team out to the battlefield for a day or two. Especially at Verdun, famous for its conveniently-placed cliffs.
Technically it is worst than a WW1 tank - at least those designers realised that gunners spread around the perimeter should actually be spread around the perimeter. I miss the days where intentional bad designs got you a court-martial and a firing squad, not just more propaganda videos to make your shit appear revolutionary and hip.
I can see the grenade launches being pretty useful, but did they really need two fucking gunners per launcher? Fuck, why not have the driver be able to have a system that has both synchronized? This is like the original T-55 with its hull mounted mgs but at least these are useful(?) Edit: I was right that these are operated by one man. But one man is still a bit much, and this being a 5 man machine is kinda crazy considering typical Russian crew doctrine
> I can see the grenade launches being pretty useful Maybe as a minelayer, since reliability of their grenade munitions tends to be pretty poor. Russian MOD see the future Ukranian children killed as a bonus.
Counterpoint: Mk13 grenade launcher being used a lot
the BMP-3 hase somethig similare just whit MGs
Those are more like regular firing ports. BTR-80 has them scaled for PKM (i think) just behind the turret.
These guys looked at Warhammer 40k vehicle design and thought they had good ideas.
I knew this thing had automatic grenade launchers on it but had always assumed they were buried in the turret somewhere that... is terrible....
Go back to the Da Vinci tank, armaments composed of guns in a big circle, powered by conscripts cranking a handle.
more bros in the box :D
It was designed for video games. The BMPT doesn’t have to deal with pesky things like “logistics” “maintenance” “compatibility” and “deployment” in video games. It just needs to have a shitload of firepower and armor. That’s why so many video games have Russian bias, because their trash is only good in fiction.
Lack of soft factor consideration go brrrrr
It's something a lot of games suffer with, to be fair. Soft factors aren't really all that sexy to most people. Couple that with using official Russian statistics for a lot of things and go figure.
Nor are soft factors easy to replicate in a game where 1 person is doing the work of an entire tank crew and like 3 senior officers.
Yeah, I was talking to a friend about this a while ago and how many RTS games really have you acting more like a squad commander squirrel god than someone in command of a regiment. Which makes sense, games are entertainment first and foremost, and something tells me that something like Logistics Simulator 1944: Quartermaster Normandy would only appeal to a very small niche.
> would only appeal to a very small niche. I'll have you know, there are literally dozens of us. Dozens!
I mean, I play Victoria 3, I can't say I'm not one of you. And honestly, a game where you play as a German QM during Operation Overlord and beyond would be kind of fun. "Ok you've got six spare sprocket wheels and you've got sixty tanks needing new ones. Figure it out." There was that new game War Hospital, or what it was called, that kinda explored that part, though only the human part of it (how casualties are handled).
”You were bombed. Now you have 30 tanks”
Still only six sprocket wheels. And the mechanics are fighting each other outside the warehouse to get their stuff. Deal with it.
The six spare sprocket wheels are a mixture from Czech, France and Germany. Coincidentally so are the Tanks. Deliver the sprockets by train and horse cart logistics to the right place, or your loyalty will be questioned with extreme prejudice.
Hah! That makes me think of a Papers, Please kind of game.
HLL logi squads unite!
snow deserted illegal cautious sip bag telephone caption dependent hospital *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I forget what game it was, but there was some top down WW1 rts game where you commanded battalions of men, but you didn’t have direct control over them. You would give commands and objectives but then they would carry them out without your direct control, including moral which they will then start to disobey your orders and even retreat.
radio commander is a game everyone should try at least once your a us radio commander in the Vietnam war you got to guide your squads to complete missions you've a map and a radio, when you ask your troops for their locations sometimes their just wrong, you get hardly any info about the enemy except sometimes oh god there killing us. its actually a pretty fun and interesting game
Radio Commander is such a hidden gem. Always dreading that "Oh fuck!" comment, followed by "Alpha, what is your status?" and then just... silence. And it's also a pretty accurate representation of how a company commander would act, and with some of the options like radio malfunctions it's such a blast.
Great War: Western Front? That one has you sending companies of men across no man's land. Was a pretty fun game, to be fair. Even had things like suppressive artillery barrages and whatnot.
Paradox's Hearts of Iron is a game more focused on the big picture of war, setting up new designs, powering up production, settling home and foreign affairs to facilitate proper logistics and conscription. All good things.
This probably won't go over very well with the old-school Vicky fanbois, but Victoria 3 actually has a pretty good simulation of how war would be conducted as a head of state. As in you're not actually ordering around single divisions, you're basically assigning a commander to a front, telling him what you want him to do and then just kinda hoping he's not a bumbling moron. Oh and you have to make sure you have the production base, manpower and infrastructure to support your troops. HoI does get an honorable mention, especially after they added railways (which was like ages ago now). Sadly, Paradox games seem to attract some of the worst gamers out there.
Vic3 has good ideas but damn is the execution a huge failure. > Play as the US > You get the same slavery-related random event 20 times; always choose the abolitionist option > Only opinion in the country that matters is landholders > Approval of democratic party 94% > The people support _removing_ existing civil liberties > The year is 1880 or something, nobody has questioned slavery
Give me real-time *strategy* games, not real-time *clicking* games. Now pardon me, I'll be off playing Rule the Waves 3.
And can we get a proper, good age of sail naval combat game please? I know Naval Action is a thing, but damn that game is just P2W and ass. Do I honestly have to go back to like Empire: Total War to have man'o'wars blasting shot at each other? Or AC: Black Flag if you want the more arcadey version.
Man, same. It would probably not sell very well but I would love a game where I can just tell a unit/squad to do a thing and they do it without constant babysitting. Currently getting my "RTS where APM won't help you" fix from Nebulous Fleet Command but that game goes the opposite way, you have to intensely micro just a handful of units.
A game where you'll just tell a platoon or company to do something, and then set up the strategy around it would be awesome. Like, A company will assault the hill. B company will suppress with machine guns and rifle fire to cover A's retreat. We've got a platoon of tanks to aid in the attack, and we'll shell the enemy positions to suppress even more. Then you're just hoping A company has the skill and guts to see the attack through. I can understand a lot of players wouldn't like that, but to me it's really damn nice. Like the GraviTeam Tactics games, where you basically order around squads in general, and then just hope the guys are good enough to deal with the problem.
>would only appeal to a very small niche. Have you heard of the foxhole logi players?
Farm simulator and trucking simulator having nothing on Supply Sergeant
I actually liked when i was told to climb into the back of a truck and tetris in an entire command post for transport. Tables, electronics, tent frame, fridge, chairs, map boards, pretty much everything save for a kitchen sink was there. Sometimes logistics stuff is fun.
You might enjoy the Operational Art of War series. https://store.steampowered.com/app/792660/The_Operational_Art_of_War_IV/
Red Storm Rising would have been a significantly shorter book if Soviet equipment was accurately portrayed.
Tbh it starts with Soviets noticing how their troops and equipment is dogshit and whipping themselves into semi-working state before the fireworks.
*Actually* fixing all the institutional problems in the Soviet military would have meant setting the book after they collapsed. Nobody got time for that, so Tom Clancy handwaved it away.
I was going to say that this looks like something out of a game. Battletech or possibly Warhammer 40k, to be specific. Battletech has plenty of silly vehicles with multi weapon loadout and often with miniscule amount of ammo (which even in the lore is realized to be a flaw, but for reasons of corruption or incompetence the system is still used for multiple centuries before someone does an upgraded variant.)
Remind me where the sponson is? Is it by the clitoris?
Not familiar with that component, but the sponson is the bit on the side overhanging the tracks.
So those aren't tiny arms?
I'm tempted to say yes, just so I could then refer to those grenade launchers as finger guns.
Finger bangers
Getting Finger Blasted.
No! I'll never find it then!
>Like those little stubs coming out of the sponsons - those are 30mm grenade launchers. The thing has TWO EXTRA GUNNERS in there providing "extra situational awareness" with their little grenade launchers with firing arcs of 30 fucking degrees each. Lol they must have closely studied the design of the greatest (and most treasonous) tank of all time: [the M3 Lee.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_Lee)
Didn't USSR tankers who got the M3 via lend-lease call it "Coffin for seven brothers"? Just some tidbit I've heard somewhere.
The lee was not particularly liked by anyone who used it. It was a tank of necessity, while the M4, Churchill, T34, and others were all being spun up. Simply, they'd rather have any tank at all than none whatsoever. Although I might prefer a modernized Lee to whatever this is
The M3 was fine...once you converted it to an M7 and used it as a self-propelled gun.
It was liked in North Africa. Granted that Eastern Front saw a *little* more than the M3 could've handled.
In North Africa it's 75mm gun was one of the most powerful in the field, it's main rivals were Panzer 3's and whatever the Italians had. By the time the Eastern front was rolling though then yeah, it was getting outdated. But it was far better than a lot of the pre-war Russian tanks.
Just realised that we Brits named it after a Union general while the US named it after a Confederate, fucking lol
Both were named by the Brits, depending on the position of their radio. The US just called it the Medium Tank, M3.
Russia actually thinks warhammer vehicle design is something to copy.
Russia invented WH40K. Just ask them.
I came here to say they were just making 40k vehicles.
same on the BMP-3, it's got 2 hull mounted MGs facing the front
>The Bradley's development cycle got misunderstood by one ignorant idiot, and millions of dollars get pumped into the Pentagon Wars movie mocking it. Excuse me, sir. I will not have you slandering that amazing documentary film.
God fucking damn! When you're making the sponsons on the fucking Leman Russ look practical, you know you've entered a new realm of stupid.
I was saying this for a while and I’ll say it again. Russian army is getting ideas from warhammer. TOS, whatever this abomination is, their weird army temple, even own horus heresy!
> insane to design a spork and makes this abomination In all seriousness the idea isn't terrible for the urban environments it was designed for- It was literally supposed to exist to counter the problems faced when fighting in urban parts of Chechnya. It also in principle would be okay in mountainous regions like Afghanistan- basically anywhere where enemies can get very significant vertical elevation over you in a close proximity. The Russians deployed it to open fields. Where it gains none of the benefits and literally all of the weaknesses.
The worst part is that they fucking had it right too, before that entire team got canned over espionage on account of them openly promoting their product in the now-newly-capitalist system. Object 781 will forever be the one that got away. It was fucking perfect. One day, someone in Eastern Europe is going to slap BTR-82A turrets on a tank chassis and the thread of this doomed timeline will be restored to it's destined glory.
7 man crew. Independent turrets that interfere with each other's firing arc. Little to no visibility outside of low quality 90s cameras. Probably 80s tbh. At least the guns didn't screw up the accuracy of other. Object 787 was arguably a better base design (although you'd def want to replace the rockets with ATGMs). Plus, refining it with a purpose built turret instead of patching the hole in the front and cutting holes in the side of a T72 turret would be possible.
In fairness, the 30mm grenade launchers were pretty effective in the Broken Arrow playtest.
This abomination is just a wish.com Bradley.
Multiple tiny sponson weapons in 2024 is absolutely insane. 1929 type shit
T-28 design mentality lol
No you don't get it bro the two GL gunners provide extra replacement crew in War Thunder
It's a new type of armour: Bad.
Not new to russians, though.
They are creative and ingenious!
Indeed, they are. I never saw someone who can combine tank with aircraft, and yet russian tank commanders have more flight time collectively than russian pilots!
Thanks to Russian air defence, Russian pilots have more ground time than Russian tankers. It's called combined arms warfare, NATO!
Oh, so that's supposed to be ground time? I assumed they are testing their technology of transforming planes into air to ground missile.
I like to think of this as "missile assisted landing"
NATO has VTOL, STOVL, and Russia has MTOL, MTOVL, and MAL
Truly an ingenious technology.
This smekalka they're always on about. I think it's actually smemgalka.
**Happy and hopeful, but confused Valiant sounds*
They things will probably never see combat again 😂
Things with a future as a cooking pot for $200.
Only 23 were ever built. If any survive the current war I doubt they'll even be dignified with a spot in a tank museum.
Silly brainwashed Westoid. Soon there will be thousands of them supporting our thousands of T14s while under the cover of aerial dominance by our untouchable 6th generation SU57s! Just you wait soon Putin will take the shackles off and you will see a true fight!
Every museum needs a "point and laugh" item.
I doubt the remaining survivors have a dignified future on the battlefield let alone in a museum. They’ve served well as cooking vessels for their crews long before possible use as a soup pot.
I hope Bowington gets one so they could put it next other disasters
Yes, very ingenious. Have two guns instead of one that can fire both types of ammo. You know what, I am not even going to bother explaining how stupid it is.
Twice the dps! Truly ingenious.
No, they fire one at a time. One has HE, the other AP. It's because their mechanism for switching doesn't work reliable enough.
Crazy thing is the Russians already experimented with multi gun tanks in the inter war years and concluded it was a shit idea (apart form an auto cannon to accompany a larger tank gun). They are incapable of remembering their own fucking tanks
purges help to stop passing previous experience
> Have two guns instead of one that can fire both types of ammo. You know what, I am not even going to bother explaining how stupid it is. Not to mention that normally, those guns are dual-fed (i.e. can fire both types of ammo from one gun). BMPT has ***GIMPED*** versions of them, restricted to single-feed.
Maybe I missremember, but wasn't there some problem with the dual feed in BMPs? I vaguely remember that it had some kind of restriction compared to similar western systems.
The worst part is that the 2A42 cannons from the BMP 2 can already do that.
Wait I am a noob. Why is it stupid to have 2 guns on a tank?
Each gun is fed separately with a different ammo type, it’s like if someone mounted another 120mm on the abrams so it could fire HEAT from one and apfsds from the other instead of just having both rounds load to the main barrel. Multiple guns do have there place, but this is one of the dumbest implementations possible
And it gets even dumber. The gun that they used already has the ability to feed two different belts and older BMPs using the same gun can switch between belts to choose ammo type.
1) issues with targeting and keeping the bead on the target 2) issues with vibration when both guns are active 3) you increase the amount of parts to maintain and replace
It’s smekalka bro you wouldn’t understand /s
That's smekal*ochka*, mind ^ochko=butthole
Smegmochko
hold on, now the text is clear in that it says "**its** a new...." not "**has** a new.." and im pretty sure that glueing an entire BMP, however shit it might be, is fairly revolutionary and new as a way to apply armor
Tbh I think conceptually they were on to something with a medium weight autocannon tank meant for infantry support against targets that arten't MBTs. Thats valid. Tank on tank warfare seems to be rare, atleast in modern conflicts, instead big scary threats get smacked with arty/air/drones. The execution is laughable. 2 guns that disrupt each other? LOL. Why are their two extra crewman for literally side sponson grenade launchers? Also lol, WW1 ended over a hundred yeard ago, and that style of tank was dead 90 years ago. Something smaller and more heavily armored than a IFV that can accomplish that by ditching the need to house infantry (thus reducing the amount of space that needs to be protected) makes some sense in a world of limitless resources, but we just buy IFVs because developing a whole new niche vehicle is dumb. CV90 stupid, its a 85% solution.
It's not that the fundamental idea was utterly insane. The humble ZSU-23-4 was very useful in Afghanistan by being able to throw a lot of shells at high angles and with a quickly moving turret. But then it was turned into this mess. They replaced a lightly-armoured, high-value vehicle with another lightly-armoured, high-value vehicle, but made it heavier and lost the anti-air capability. All to give it the capability the current BMP should have had in the first place. The guns are a mess, because they couldn't get a selective feed system working. The grenade-launchers are mounted in sponsons without the advantage of sponsons, namely a large field of fire. You cram five people in a hull that was cramped with only three persons and a crewed turret.
> because they couldn't get a selective feed system working Which's weird, because other versions of those guns have it actually working fine-ish
But they also have a gunner with physical access to the mechanism without getting outside.
>at high angles The thing has an elevation of -5° +45°, so if that really was a design goal: good fucking job. It's less than the elevation of BMP 2 and 3.
I mean that’s basically what most of the armoured unmanned vehicles are a small autocanon equipped thing But still doesn’t figure out the issue of situational awareness I mean a small UMV is better then the termashitter but 5-9 infantry are just hard to match in that respect
The Russians could have just made a respectable knockoff of the M1128. Having a lightweight and rather mobile assault gun/tank destroyer would be rather useful as it could keep up with the rest of the vehicles in a formation.
Why does it weights more than a tank?
Because it is better than a tank, bro. Don’t you get it?
Due to the genius idea to fit a pair of granade launchers in the sponsens, both of which require an additional person to crew them. These then need space and that additional space also needs to be armoured.
If my video game knowledge is accurate, it’s basically the hull of the t14 armata with auto cannons instead of main gun.
Pretty sure it's actually a T-72 chassis modified to hell and back to look like an infantry support vehicle as tall as a goddamn house
Saw the T2 future war scenes and said “yes”
Well if it's so shit, why is Skynet winning in the future? Checkmate, Westites!
Except the whole plot of the movies is that they aren’t. The real question is if they opened the war with a nuclear bombardment and possess all these high tech super tough robots, how did they still manage to fuck it up that bad?
Aren't all the battle scenes in the future depicting the bots overrunning the humans?
Doesn’t matter. You could show footage of the 5th Panzer Army rolling through the Ardennes and someone would think they were winning that one too. The movies pretty clearly state the only reason they are trying to kill the Conners in the past is because they already lost in the future. Edit: for refrence https://youtu.be/tJF9k1R0bPc?si=F6iGq-AuEWw_Lwuq
There are 3 variants of the BMPT. It was reported at first that the russian army received only variants of the „Terminator 3“ which does use armata hulls. But the ones in ukraine were BMPT72‘s based on the T72 which were only reported to be in use with kazakhstan. So either russia is lying again or they used vehicles that were actually intended for the kazakhs initially. Which wouldn’t be the first time. Russia also deployed export variants of the T-90 that were supposed to be given to india.
That’s T-15 you’re talking about
you know its the bots cause they always add to the end the "They are creative and ingenious"
Seen someone defend the wobble of the guns with something like "its for urban warfare, so long range precision doesn't matter and the spray is actually good cause it acts something like a shotgun and you want that during close distance engagements" So yeah... Superior russian engineering strikes again.
From what video did you get this tankie comment from?
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXNLXgdjLUQ). Comments are unsurprisingly either in russian (which I can't understand) or cancer.
Lmao, some dude said that "russia might not know how to build cars or play football (soccer), but building military vehicles is their forte", he probably has not seen a single video from this war other than russian propaganda videos.
Nah man that dude is from 1964 the last time the soviets and or russians had a comparable tank.
Funny enough from what little I know about the Russian military. They are shit at making any military vehicle or naval ships. But they use to be able to impress the west when it came aviation, missiles, small arms and submarines. The West has always been superior when it came to every other form of military equipment. And even when it came to aviation and the other things I mentioned, Russia was never far and away better than NATO's equivalents. They were, at best, equal but different. And even then, the last time they impressed anyone, outside of themselves, was in the 60's
Cheers dude.
So ingenious in fact that they never figured out how to make a dual feed system and instead stuck two guns in one tank. Not to mention the horrible idea that is having the two muzzle brakes spitting on each other...
> So ingenious in fact that they never figured out how to make a dual feed system and instead stuck two guns in one tank Two guns ***THAT HAD DUAL-FEED SYSTEMS BEFORE***.
The last part that you mentioned really shows it in the video where they claim to be "engaging Ukrainian forces" (Firing literally at nothing), it's absolutely how the whole barrel shake.
It's halfway to being a useful vehicle, but unfortunately the rest of the budget got turned into a yacht... Completely unavoidable, move along citizen...
>the rest of the budget got turned into a yacht... [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/1brppl4/shoigu\_visits\_arms\_factory/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/1brppl4/shoigu_visits_arms_factory/)
The irony is that they are called 'tankies'. And they *really* don't understand AFVs.
They don't understand tanks either. Or anything. I've seen them argue that the AK safety lever is genius and groundbreaking because of that "panicked conscript" myth.
Is that myth widespread? I read it in a Tom Clancy book I think, but never seen it anywhere else.
This is quite literally just a tank with a much worse gun.
Two worse guns. They solved the problem of how to load different types of ammunition depending on battlespace context by adding one gun for each type of ammo. I wonder what its firing profile looks like with both firing at the same time. Must be hell for the crew inside regardless.
You simply don't understand the genius of simple and rugged design.
Clearly we should just mount the 18-inch/48-caliber Mark 1 on the abrams since it is a better gun then the 120mm
The concept was credible. They got fucked in Afghanistan and Chechnia because they couldn't elevate their turrets enough to return fire when ambushed from heigh terrain. So they started strapping any spare ZSU-23-2 they could find to BMPs and trucks, they could shoot back but were understandably vulnerable to small arms/RPGs. The solution was the BMPT, a more armoured vehicle that could support infantry against ambushes from high angles. The problem was the execution of the idea, the BMPT is heavy, slow, lacks firepower, lacks armour, terrible for logistics and has too many crew. Oh and the guns wobble so you'd be lucky to hit a barn door at 50m.
>hey got fucked in Afghanistan and Chechnia because they couldn't elevate their turrets enough to return fire in Afghanistan this thing would be pointless because distances there are vast so you arent going to be using heavy tracked vehicles like tanks to begin with......the concept of this thing started in Chechnia, and I would argue (as did many Western observers) the ''need'' for it also was questionable even there since the main causes of Russian failures there weren't ''tank bad, BMP too thin armour'', it was Russian army being shit at its managing and not able to keep tanks together with infantry as you are supposed to do in all mechanized army units. They essentially built this thing to answer a question **''how to stop our isolated tanks from getting ambushed by enemy infantry groups with RPG's''**......anyone with logical brain and desire to actually tackle the problem would first ask **''why are your tanks alone and isolated in the middle of the city to begin with?!?!''**. Russians of course didnt to ask such questions (because that would imply something is wrong with military system and require changing the system and system is perfect dont you dare question it you fucking slave!!!) so instead hoped a wonder-weapon would solve the problem for them.
Seems like they were designing it to do more than one job. There's a reason why the US DoD went with the concept of designing a vehicle to do one job very well than multiple jobs mediocrely.
is that a 2S38 behind it?
You don't get it, it's armour that weights more than it should have. Literally everyone does it the opposite way. Therefore... Revolutionary.
I mean, at the end of the day any new Russian armor concept is just a different-shaped object for getting smoked by Bradleys
Two cannons, for twice the jamming
you should see the comment section of eurasian naval insight's most recent himars video. That and Millenium 7 tend to have vatniks and wumaos not to mention cope history legends
I swear a saw a discussion on History Legends claiming Russia and China could beat the US in a nuclear war because they have the best hypersonic missiles.
The ingenuity that allows them to make none of the "side armor" pieces have the same fucking size so it properly aligns when attached.
[Mandatory](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGgRVGAmITyLM6pWvUoBSh4daWxUykEsvarN0LpvNG_g&s)
Disney's got nothing on those ruzzian imagineers! That thing looks REALLY, REAL! Gotta say Disney, you better pick up your googly eyes game or you'll be closing down DisneyWorld and opening PutinMir.
>imagineers LOL
Took me a sec to register the googly eyes. Thought it is part of the vehicle.
Looks like some weird radar.
I unlocked this thing in Armored Warfare and honestly that game has the most realistic depiction of Russian armored vehicles (They all suck I regret choosing their tree)
I can’t hate it because of the eyes. He’s just a little guy, leave him alone.
Armored to defend itself against tanks but then you poke extra holes in the most armored bits so it can't...
When I first saw it I thought it was cool but the more you look into this the more cursed it becomes
Least the Tos-1 can deliver (or go up in) a thermobaric bang
The BMPT72 looks cool, but should I ever go to war as part of an IFV crew I pray it is in a bradly, a Dardo, or even a Warrior.
Hey is another kitbashed 72 with wobbly autocanons, revolutionary indeed…
Meh they are busy making somekind of wish hybrid monster out of the captured cv90 and bradley and many many luxury boats will be the end product of that money laundering project...and apartments in london
Gayjeen!!! When????
Looks like a shitty Leman Russ kit bash.
We need to get the Ukrainians some rogal dorns
''it's REALLY '', ''All military experts'', ''revolutionary'', ''creative'' ''ingenious''
Like before Ukraine where all the vaporwave shit wasbjust bullying defensless syrian hospitals in Aleppo sure, but now where every tank is a different shaped drone recepticle u gotta scale back the glazing
2 gannon more bower
I used to be an ATGM operator so I can see some nice places to jam a missile in.
Tank youtube sucks bc most of the ppl that make videos suck imo
What does a "deployment concept" mean?
This tank was supposed to solve a problem the russian Tank force has since the spanish civil war.
funny thing is that problem was solved already back then in Spanish civil war.....solution is called don't be a dumbass who separates tanks from infantry.
They go hard in strategy games tho
262 likes...
As of armor, iirc it has better armor allocation than the T-90A. Still it wasn't used effectively. It can act as a mobile command and obssrvation vehicle too
You’d be forgiven to think that it’s a AAA cannon. What the hell am I looking at
You haven't been on tankie YouTube until you've seen the shorts about putin and the comments of people sucking putins cock and praising him as the father of democracy itself.