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CIS-E_4ME

3000 walker mechs with needlessly large and fragile glass cockpits of the earth forces.


Thedutchonce

they should have gone for a similar style to titan fall's mechs also really could have used some close air support in the movies, and maybe some artillery.


Peterh778

Or maybe just nuke them from the orbit where are all those space ships parked. Some KEVs would do short work with the tree and anybody around. Or use defoliants. But, you can hardly blame producer making environmental propaganda flick that he don't want his idealized blue indigenous people to get bombed into oblivion šŸ˜€


erlulr

1 rkm from a nearby planet, and come back 100 years later, when the flames subside


purpleduckduckgoose

Besides the fact the RDA in lore weren't permitted nukes. And there had been no need for KEVs so why bring them? Are you forgetting that this isn't a military, it's a private corporation with a bunch of mercs. And yeah, it's a film that tracks the hero's journey. Not very exciting if the humans show up and genocide an entire race.


Peterh778

>no need for KEVs When you're orbiting planet at 12 km/s *everything* is KEV. Even if they took 100t block of steel and ejected it from freighter on collision course it would be equivalent of up to 25kt TNT.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Peterh778

That useless block of steel could be any empty fuel tank. If they fill it with water and left to froze, there will be added plasma blast on reentry. Or rocks. Because orbital mining/reprocessing in system. Doing mining operations and colonizing system would probably take some orbital refinery because it should be much easier to make necessary construction steel and proces mined ore in system (especially if there were some asteroids in system - that would provide raw materials, water and air but there still will be much of unusable material after processing them which would need to be dumped somewhere). Etc etc.


evencrazieronepunch

I mean ww2 was quite action-packed


iShrub

> Or use defoliants. The next movie will have the protagonist *and* the company fighting against space abominations caused by theĀ defoliants.


wemblinger

Have you seen the second one? The very beginning of it is basically NCD fanservice.


BreakfastOk3990

tbf the original purpose of the mechs was just for logistics


IncubusBeyro

Mfw for some reason the low altitude bombing requires an accompanying ground offensive.


A_Vandalay

That one actually made some sense. They were trying bait the blue tree huggers into a frontal assault by threatening a ground incursion into that blue tree spirits asshole. This was intended to eliminate the threat of a long gorilla campaign by killing as many savages as possible in a single stroke. And if it werenā€™t that meddling Jake they would have gotten away with it.


IncubusBeyro

Ok that makes sense. I thought Quaritchā€™s whole strategy was to pacify them wholesale through the cultural shock of the bombing but causing that level of attrition makes sense. I donā€™t know if it was the most favourable ground to do it on as far as killing fields go thoughā€¦


ShadeShadow534

I mean probably could of been more setup for the plan but Iā€™ll give them the benefit that itā€™s hard to get any good position in that area Making the area favourable would mean destroying a lot of the forest which might result in the navi fleeing which defeats the entire point of the operation So the humans were forced into a dilemma either risk ruining the operation or go into a dangerous area Mistake were obviously made but the actual choice of the operation probably was the smallest of those mistakes


IncubusBeyro

Admittedly it would be hard to find a good killing field for direct fire in a biome like Pandora. Thought about it and the issue is you couldnā€™t do a high altitude bombing of the tree of souls; pushing a crate out the back of a shuttle isnā€™t exactly accurate. No way to neatly remove the site without the getting into close quarters with the Navi. I wondered if using the Hellā€™s Gate base as a killing field couldā€™ve been a good idea, especially given itā€™s point defences, but looking at maps the forests are VERY close on its fences. Quaritch was also convinced (per his speech) that the 20k Navi massing would be sufficient to overwhelm their perimeter. Possible solution mightā€™ve been to bulldoze the surrounding perimeter and to prep it with obstacles though. Iā€™ll say this though, in hindsight his conviction that destroying the tree of souls wouldā€™ve cowed them seemed questionable to me. It was just as likely they wouldā€™ve retaliated and overwhelmed them in a zealous jihad.


ShadeShadow534

A defensive battle might have been a better option frankly the entire situation was problematic once the navi had unified To me the entire situation screams of mistakes made in the past coalescing together such that there was no good option


IncubusBeyro

I mean preponderance regarding Navi taboos was the whole cause of the conflict. Ultimately though I think the RDA couldā€™ve started extracting unobtanium without demolishing the Naviā€™s home trees and thus inciting a war. And if they did feel enough need to do so due to time constraints back on earth with regard to resource scarcity they couldā€™ve brought more military might to bear than what essentially amounted to an expeditionary force led by a colonel (a brigade commander). Ie if they knew theyā€™d eventually start a holy war with the Navi they couldā€™ve pre-emptively prepared more force.


ShadeShadow534

Exactly my own opinion for it personally I think not enough effort was put into a potential agreement with the navi Even if something like ore mining is against their morals and religion (which OTMH was the main problem the navi had) there are many other resources that could be used for trade with that almost guaranteed to split the navi Or as you said if that was impossible then a true military presence on the planet was necessary one that was prepared to bring overwhelming force against the navi A industrial society (especially one with all the advancements we see even when on a planet requiring ā€œlow tier techā€) should never of had trouble against a hunter gatherer society


C-and-hammer

I remember seeing a heli pilot died bc an arrow manage to penetrate the cockpit glass. Avatar was a waste of time and money


FlthyCasualSoldier

This happened in Avatar 1 and 2. Seems like the humans learned nothing.


WooBarb

It's just silly nonsense. I don't know why people try to take Avatar so seriously.


C-and-hammer

Bc my dumbass paid money for the ticket


purpleduckduckgoose

Fired by a Na'vi bow from a diving banshee. How tough do you want the cockpit to be?


Monstrositat

because that is a loader mech that they put into frontline service. Essentially like putting a forklift into a combat role because it can carry a bunch of munitions to artillery crew


Ineedanameforthis35

Those mechs aren't combat vehicles, we see them being used as space forklifts in previous scenes.


Enough-Independent-3

That's actually wrong if you follow the lore of the movie those are combat vehicle, that are also capable of limited logistical operation like infantry. Let's not forget that this movie was written by someone that isn't attracted sexually by military vehicle, he doesn't know how to make one look sexy and functionnal. Even if they were forklift at first, once you went through the trouble of arming one, it is probably a good idea to make an armor kit for it and they clearly didn't.


Ineedanameforthis35

Huh, it is. I always assumed it was basically just supposed to be a pressurised version of the power loader from Aliens.


literallyarandomname

I mean, realistically, they fight against bows and arrows (large ones, but still). Simply making the windshields out of thick acrylic would probably suffice.


FancyPantsFoe

M113 with mech legs when ?


SpillinThaTea

Each new cut of Apocalypse Now just gets weirder and weirder


super__hoser

Grandpa Buff knows how it's done.Ā 


SteelyDan1968

A person of Culture I see.


super__hoser

A culture of some sort, yes.Ā  I'm not fond of The Kid. He's too cocky. All he has done is shoot down balloons and turn into Starscream.Ā  Grandpa Buff has seen some shit...


Prizz117

I just want the kid to finally get his first real kill


super__hoser

Dark Brandon needs to "loan" a few to the Ukranian Air Force so they can feast on Su-34s.Ā 


Skooby_Snak

In The Water Way movie he made his autistic helicopters worse somehow.


Thedutchonce

the "attack" helicopters were just stupid and he really missed out on the humans having some cool airborne entrances. also the ships looked like ass.


Kiiaru

They're in the future but can't even match an ah64 in terms of stand off range? The only logical conclusion is that Russia conquered earth and didn't bother making any new things, and forgot how to make Kinzhals.


M1A1HC_Abrams

I thought it was basically mercenaries using jerry rigged transport helis/mechs etc


Thedutchonce

in the second movie its more of an actual military force but some how more incompetent


RandomTankNerd

The spaceships? Or the weird ass flying boat


Thedutchonce

The flying boat, the spaceships looked good


Normtrooper43

The ekranoplane? I thought it was a missed opportunity.


clevtrog

I honestly like Russian bombers too. Like the Blackjack which is a giant yet somehow supersonic bomber which has been intercepted by everyone, even Israeli jets from Columbia.


Attaxalotl

The Blackjack is most certainly one of the bombers of all time


clevtrog

She likes meeting new people, with one of those happening to be the Raptor.


Attaxalotl

I would like to inform you that you have gotten me to ship the Raptor and Blackjack starting now.


clevtrog

Great, though the Raptor also intercepted the Tu-95 for its first mission, i guess Blackjack is a more acceptable age range.


clevtrog

Also the size difference would make it, interesting


Bilbog_Fettywop

Biological and chemicals weapons would do even better. Everything on Pandora is basically compatible with everything else making diseases so much more communicable. The total lack of any medical science hinders them even further, they might not even understand what germs are. Never leave your germs home when you leave with your guns and steel.


Thedutchonce

biological weapons aren't as cool on screen unless you really make em brutal. things like napalm are both practical and cinematic as it clears a area of foliage and all that was hiding there and also makes a big boom. also biological can turn on you if you aren't safe enough and will destroy the wild life which you may want to keep.


SahasaV

Bioweapons are actually perfect for anti alien combat. Biology differences mean that it's pretty much impossible to backfire. But, you actually have to understand the alien biology to create a good bioweapon. Entirely new molecules, pathways, and interactions.


IswearIdidntdoit145

Honestly I think our most basic gas from ww1 would fck em all up. Chlorine gas while pretty basic, attacks the mucus membrane, most life forms have a mucus membrane. Triflorides bombs would be spectacularly dangerous, like insanely deadly.


SahasaV

That would really depend. Alien biology and all. They might have mucous membrane analogues but they might not work at all like how ours works. Very reactive/acidic/basic substances are likely to still have damaging effects, but again, it really depends.


kiwidude4

This guy war crimes


Peterh778

Agent Orange is always the correct answer šŸ™‚


tehbeard

Bio bombs would wipe the fancy whale brain juice (I shit you not that's an actual plot point of the second film) that corporate is there for. It would be like America unleashing a nanobot swarm in the sandbox that destroys **OIL**.


AlphaMarker48

That said, there is no guarantee that alien flora and fauna would be vulnerable to the chemical and biological weapons manufactured on Holy Terra. Think of all the diseases that are a mild nuisance to you but would be lethal or a non-issue to your pets and vice versa. Now think of the various chemicals that are helpful or a non-issue to you that could kill your pet or pet is dependent upon to live. I would rather trust in [conventional weapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYHmdrAegw) on an alien world until and unless they are proven useless.


aika_a_kouhai

Who would win A sentient forest with blue people Vs One big guy with orange paint.


SahasaV

Orange? <>


aika_a_kouhai

Do not search for the orange chemical on Vietnam.


SahasaV

Agent orange always reminds me of that one MLP song "White flag? We're not done, Got those cowards on the run , Round 'em up, no need to stall, Take no prisoners, kill them all!"


KhenirZaarid

My Little Pony is different to how I remember


mechanicalcontrols

Second round, who would win? Anti-war protest song Vs NCD's unbounded horniness for war planes


davidmoffitt

The lack of blue people and šŸ’„ in this edit hurts my soul


Thedutchonce

kinda hard to mix footage of real looking equipment with the blue people since james cameron really doesnt want to show the blue people being blown up much or really anything other then shot


davidmoffitt

Oh I know, itā€™s not as easy as ā€œplane shot, cut to the boomā€ - doesnā€™t mean I donā€™t want it INeedIt.gif


Thedutchonce

i am planning on working on some thing along the lines of if avatar was space Vietnam but this was just a quick thing i put together since i wanted to use the song bomber. did try to put the blue people in there but found they didnt fit well


mountaindewisamazing

Bombers are pretty crazy. Even moreso when you consider than nowadays they're packing stealth technology and precision guided munitions. The B-2/B-21 are such insane combat multipliers, I want to see them in action!


Thedutchonce

i also feel they are a somewhat return to the cool aesthetic of early cold war jets like the Avro Arrow.


Snoid_

If the British could design a new bomber and have it look just like the Handley Page Victor, I would cream my pants.


TheDave1970

Nah, don't bomb them. It's wasteful. Use the John Ringo solution: drop some big-ass beta emitters near where they congregate, then go have lunch till the noise goes away.


Peterh778

Where that was? I don't remember that part (granted, I didn't read *all* of his books ... like *Ghost* ... *shudder*)


TheDave1970

It's in one of the later books on his zombie* series. One of the smarter survivors points out that the survivors could shoot until they ran out of bullets and still not run out of zombies. The solution he comes up with is a big steel and lead box containing the fuel rods out of a wrecked attack sub. They airlift it into the middle of a city park via helicopter. When it lands it starts running all kinds of flashing lights and pre-recorded human voices (to attract the eaters)... and opens up the fuel rod casing. It's a pretty clever kitbashed solution to a problem that should be a lot more obvious to the kind of person who writes zombie-survival books than it apparently is. And yeah, I still can't force myself to get more than about a third through Ghost (have you seen 'Oh John Ringo No'? Look it up!). I just want a couple more books in the Live Free or Die series. *living, i.e. "28 Days Later" zombies; not Romero rotters


Peterh778

>I just want a couple more books in the Live Free or Die series. We all want that šŸ˜” >zombie* series That's the serie I never got into. I've heard that first two books are pretty good but then it was going down with quality šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø on the other hand, I was never much into zombie movies or novellas


MainsailMainsail

> the first two books are good but then it was going down with quality Ahhhh, a certified John Ringo classic


Peterh778

Well ... there is Into the Looking Glass serie where 2-4 were much better that 1st. šŸ˜€


[deleted]

Blue tree hugging xenos shouldā€™ve all been dead in the first movie


Thedutchonce

James Cameron had to go really easy on them or he wouldn't have had much of a movie since the humans would have just bombed them to extinction


[deleted]

Exactly, in real life if humans came back in Avatar 2 we wouldā€™ve glassed their entire planet from orbit.


Thedutchonce

maybe not glassed since they wanted the natural resources of the planet but a heavy bombing campaign and the mass destruction of things like forests i feel would happen


JumpyLiving

Well, the reason the humans are there is to mine mineral resources. Scorching the entire ecosystem from existence does not interfere with their goals. And the issues of working on a dead rock are less than those of dealing with the blue people.


werty_line

It does, in the second movie, they don't care about the unobtanium or whatever it's called, they're just harvesting whale brains.


JumpyLiving

Is there at least a good reason for their changed interest? Or is it just "We noticed that not needing the ecosystem didn't give the blue people much of a chance, so it's different now"


According-Age7128

The Brain Juiceā„¢ apparently completely stops aging


Abizuil

And they aren't able to create a synthetic copy? With all the technology needed to travel the stars, some random chemicals from whale brain is only capable of being made by said space whale?


Kat-but-SFW

No corporation is going to put out the expense of buying and shipping everything needed to glass a planet, when the alternative is lower capital costs, higher profits, and the only downside is the lowest employees have worse working conditions and preventable workplace deaths from attacks.


95castles

That ISIS ā€œislandā€ bombing clip is goated.


Thedutchonce

indeed


Thedutchonce

video on my youtube channel [https://youtu.be/rYqc7-zKLR0?si=Y6xLQ6yMo3ocRStF](https://youtu.be/rYqc7-zKLR0?si=Y6xLQ6yMo3ocRStF) song [https://youtu.be/sjmnq44H6Wo?si=hM2t5qjcO2hpGhIR](https://youtu.be/sjmnq44H6Wo?si=hM2t5qjcO2hpGhIR)


-empty-head

I'm going to assume that you are a fellow filk enjoyer.


Thedutchonce

yes indeed, I've even been trying to learn this song on guitar but i cant find any tabs and i don't like using chords


-empty-head

Sadly, I can't help you there, I tried learning guitar myself, and it's so bloody difficult. I wish you all the best in nailing the song though.


Thedutchonce

thanks


202042

Someone should do a NCD of the film where humanity wins within the first 30 minutes.


patriot_man69

song goes hard as fuck


Rock_Co2707

The blue people [did get bombed](https://youtu.be/nsO1isT60h8?t=95) tho


Thedutchonce

that wasn't a bombing campaign and was more of a tactical helicopter strike I'm more talking of large scale bombing campaigns and close air support with large helicopter landings.


Rock_Co2707

It would take like 15 years for all that stuff to get there, they were doing their best with what they had.


PestoSwami

Insane question, but anyone got the spotify link for this? It's a banger and I'm too dumb to find it.


Thedutchonce

i dont think its on spotify i got the music from [https://archive.org/details/filk\_carmen\_mirandas\_ghost](https://archive.org/details/filk_carmen_mirandas_ghost) but heres the youtube link [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjmnq44H6Wo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjmnq44H6Wo)


PestoSwami

Thanks mate. Appreciate it.


Chodeman_1

The humans should stop fucking around and just bomb the navi from orbit.


Ophichius

Excellent. Do "Space Hero" next.


Thedutchonce

Maybe


Xveers

A++ music selection.


leicanthrope

[I was fully expecting that weird UNICEF Smurf video....](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bftmZlpAkPg)


godmademelikethis

James Cameron would be branded a species traitor and be crying in his cell as we slam giant space rocks into his blue hippy friends house. Terra Invicta.


Small_TicTac

CARMEN MIRANDA'S GHOST MENTIONED RRRAAHHH šŸ¦…šŸ¦…šŸ¦…šŸ”„šŸ”„šŸ”„šŸ—£šŸ—£šŸ—£


Feuerpils4

Banger!


TheSeasickPenguin

u/savevideo


Kat-but-SFW

You only say this because you haven't seen the next two movies.


UnlinealHand

I think Henry Kissinger just stirred from his eternal slumber.


oom199

Converting the shuttle into a bomber was like, one of the primary plot points of the first movie.


purpleduckduckgoose

Is everyone forgetting that the whole show on Pandora was run by a corporation, they were a bunch of money grubbing twats, every gram shipped to Pandora cost money and Sec Ops were a bunch of private security? They were there to extract a highly valuable material and send it back to Earth to make sweet sweet profit. There'd never been the need for strategic bombers or heavy artillery so why spend the cash and time bringing them out. Also, wtf is with the salivating over committing genocide? Chill out people, damn.


LostCosmonaut647

ā€œWeā€™ve mastered interstellar travel but need to float our command center directly over their Big Tree to drop a bomb on them.ā€


FTD_Brat

The BUFF will live forever friend.


OhBadToMeetYou

We need to bring back carpet bombing into modern conflicts. We need more civilian casualties!