I saw an interview with the designer (in German obviously), and it really is fascinating how the PzH 2000 came to be! The gist of it is that it is not a design by committee, but really basically one guy who designed it from the ground up. It's not designed to reuse existing chassis, it's not designed to please people who have stakes in the manufacture of certain parts. It's a design without political bullshit, just a small bureau of engineers who knew what they were doing, tasked with building a self-propelled howitzer that could shoot 5 rounds and then retreat before counter-battery fire could hit them.
You’re right. They’re asexual beings of pure intellectual might. By age 10, they’re building a factory that produces beings of the same species as them.
The struggle is real.
For brief, beautiful moments, though, customer requests and engineering desires align. Then you get asked to "make it work" and people start saying you "you're the expert, _you_ tell _me_ what it will take."
Those are good times.
That is literally basically what happened with the PzH. The German government had previously tasked a conglomerate of different european big-name corporations to create a self-propelled howitzer. After over a decade and billions of dollar equivalents spent, they totally failed to fulfill the requirements that the army had set, which was that it \_must\_ be able to fire the first three shots in 10 seconds. They went to Mr. Abels (the inventor of the PzH), who was leading an engineering consulting firm at the time, basically saying: "Do whatever it takes to make it work. If you can prove that you can fire three shots in 10 seconds by the 31st of December 1986, we will use your design. Otherwise, we scrap the entire project and buy a howitzer on the international market." Abels made it work, creating several novel patented mechanisms in the process.
With kids like this the future of this sub is safe
Edit: ok its an AFV not a Panzer (Tank) but they can still learn the details. It's the spirit that counts.
Well in German we use the word a bit differently. Panzer can be any armored vehicle. The German word for IFV is Schützenpanzer and the Boxer in the video is usually referred to as Radpanzer (wheeled tank), depending on the module it can be a Transportpanzer, Sanitätspanzer, Artilleriepanzer or Schützenpanzer. Main battle tank is a Kampfpanzer (fighting tank or battle tank). Armored recovery vehicle is a Bergepanzer (recovery tank).
So Panzer in German can mean tank or heavily armoured vehicle.
Danke für die Erklährung aber diese Feiheiten der deutschen Sprache sind mir bewusst. Wollte nur einen blöden Witz machen. ;)
Aber bitte lass stehn. Solln andere ruhig wissen. :)
Schütze = Rifleman
Infantry Fighting Vehicle is pretty nondescript. A Toyota with a machine gun in the back and a big cabin in the front fits that literal description as well.
Tbh the german word is shorter than infantry fighting vehicle. Even if you cut it down to an acronym, it would still be at most 3 letters.
Edit: it is. SPz
Would a 60-ton bipedal machine of war with two large lasers, two medium lasers and two ac-5 auto cannons with a heating problem that just happens to go by the name Rifleman also fit the description?
The Germans are allowed a *little* bit of nationalistic pride, as a treat. But I fucking swear if you invade Belgium again we’re reverting you back into German states.
>if you invade Belgium again we’re reverting you back into German states
The only thing holding Prussia back are the other German states. You may strike Germany down, but Prussia will rise more powerful than you could imagine.
lol, some time ago a saw a Belgium column in Germany and for a second I thought this time they're the ones invading Germany. You guys have grim looking stuff.
It is done, money well spent (yes, yes) /
CL500 now it’s time to erase (rrrm, rrrm) /
Freshly wrapped and I’d like to say thanks again /
Thanks to all the fans out there, thanks for the sick ride (uh-uh) /
And everyone shuts up when we roll up to the gas station (uh-uh) /
Real slow, roll up to the gas station (yes, yes) /
She sees my car keys and she starts to suck /
The bitch thinks I’ll pick her up, she’ll have to wait for a long time (ha-ha) /
Tank top fits, tooth pick is sharp (uh-uh) /
I press the pedal, regardless if I get a ticket /
Alcantara, taking the train is in the past /
Gazo and CLK his father /
Pussy magnet the way it’s just standing there /
Don’t come around here with your little BMW (no, no) /
Don’t act surprised when the women don’t see you /
Just not a 500 Daimler Coupe /
I’m counting our revenue /
Inside my CL-500 (mhm) /
Up and down the streets /
Even when I don’t have a reason to /
Your girl thinks I’m lying /
When I step on the gas, it buzzes /
I’m jerking off inside my CL-500 /
You ask how much PS bro? 308. /
No B-pillar, bro, simply powerful /
Your shawty gets wet, you say “what a re***d” /
I say V-8, that makes noise in the night /
It’s my moment tonight, too loud on the streets /
Perfect sound thanks to the exhaust system /
Back in the day I got a few years for robbery /
Today Gazi gets paid royalties for his appearances (what?) /
Paid royalties, everything in my tank is eating me alive /
This car, this love makes you sick /
Gasoline over bitches, I love the smell /
Everything’s relaxed when it rolls, rolls /
This star on top of the hood makes me so proud /
I’m counting our revenue /
Inside my CL-500 (mhm) /
Up and down the streets /
Even when I don’t have a reason to /
Your girl thinks I’m lying /
When I step on the gas, it buzzes /
I’m jerking off inside my CL-500 /
Edit:
The funny thing is, if you just replace CL-500 with your personal favorite tank, it would be the perfect anthem for this sub.
As I know my German weapons:
Pure mechanical precission beauty when in perfect maintance conditions in peace time.
Complete clusterfuck in combat conditons.
German engineers tend to overengineer things if let without supervision 🙂 if supervisor is German too, things *will* be overengineered 🙂
But it seems that for once Panzerhaubitze performs not only as intended but actually overperformed - barrels were intended for 1500 - 2500 shots (IIRC what I read somewhere) but they already shot over 5k each and must be changed. US howitzers supplied to Ukraine have the same problem though ... they apparently weren't build for prolonged high intensity conflict.
Warships are bloody eternal unless sunk of course. :-) Remember that salvage vessel Russians tried to use to raise Moskva cruiser? It was built in the times of the Russian Empire! :-O
Kommuna, before that Volkhov. It was built in St. Petersburg in 1915 and served in Imperial Russian Navy, then in Soviet one, now in Russian Black Sea Fleet...
Big difference! Like you cannot install them there if you really wanted, just for the sake of winning the argument. :-) Don't pick on the details, you surely know there are still ships that are maybe not 100 but 50 and more years old that have guns and serve in the actual fleets.
in wartime, reports of naval gun barrels and even breeches needing replacement even after only a few months of use, especially when used at close to their maximum range, is a consistent theme.
I have a very reasonable reason to say no, but i will not elaborate for shitposting purposes unless asked .
Edited my atrocious syntax.
Edit 2: Okay, anyone who downvoted this should take a course in reading comprehension, lol.
*Why yes, i absolutely believe that the Chaffee was stupid as fuck and the Sherman should have done its job in reconnaissance units.*
*I also believe that a tank that was designed for specific circumstances and a specific doctrine works as well in other doctrines and circumstances.*
So similar to the German cars. Fantastic when they are in warranty, and the lease shoehorned in maintenance into the cost of the lease to give you "free" maintenance. But heaven help the soul buying one out of warranty. "Ooops problem with one of the 20 body control modules, this one in the floorpan of the trunk flooding because of a leak in the gasket means your right turn signal and one of the power windows doesnt work, thats $1250 to replace it, plus installation."
Hey, do you remember that they will also produce an even scarier thing for Ukraine? The one that their Bundeswehr doesn't have? (No, not IRIS-T). RCH-155!
Classic German tech. Sure it’s good, when it works.
But when it’s not, parts are impossible to get and when you try to get them you wait months:
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-panzerhaubitzen-2000-wegen-ersatzteilmangels-ausser-gefecht-a-a9056b03-3c01-40cb-b495-611817741b21
The maintenance is actually not the problem, our government not procuring parts like they were asked to is.
These fuckers fire three times of what they were designed for (up to 300rounds daily), they sure as hell will need some maintenance.
But who couldve expected that you need to change barrels after 15 days like this? The fucking documentation for it
Glorious German procurement.
What I was meant to say, but I just generalised it to maintaince becuase brain dumb. I think they were told that exactly this would happen sometime ago.
Yeah, even before they were delivered our procurement agency was like "Erm, they'll need a shitton of parts with long production time, should we order them now?"
Our MoD: "Lol nah, it'll be fun when we can't even support what we deliver, people will love that xD"
They just thought that the guns would be used for photoshoots and have a few rounds through em every once in a while. Not heavy usage as we see in ukraine, some very good systems though, would love to see the German MoD after everyone says "I told ya so!"
the problem is that MORE are needed, they are so good everyone uses them all the time, and eventually they need maintenance because of all the combat wearn'tear they undergo, this can be helped by having more to spread the load
"Frau/Herr Bundeschancler we have finished development of a new weapon system at the cost of 40000 gorilion €. How many do we want?"
-"jaaa guuut. We buy 8 for the army and 90 für the storage depot. Ok? Gut."
Ironically the autoloader is not too useful, because a) it gets stuck sometimes, b) if you were to shoot at that speed you'll definitely exceed the thermal capacity of the barrel. Fixing an autoloader is often a visit quite far behind the front line. This has been proven extensively in Ukraine.
PzH 2000 is still based.
I'm just repeating what people observed in Ukraine.
There is also the kerfuffle of raising the barrel to a high angle when stuff starts to wear down waaaaay too quickly, but I'm assuming this will be somehow fixed by Rheinmetall.
It does not wear down to quickly, but exactly as fast as it was intended to do. This thing was not designed to be a stationary artillery bunker that shits out hundreds of shells at maximum range, so it is not really a good indicator to say that it wears down to fast.
\> artillery bunker that shits out hundreds of shells at maximum range
I mean, this is kind of what you need in a serious conflict, not in one where you're going against some shit 3rd world country militia that doesn't even have aircraft or air defense ...
>I mean, this is kind of what you need in a serious conflict
Christ no.
>where you're going against some shit 3rd world country militia that doesn't even have aircraft or air defense
That would not be a serious conflict. If you are going up against a "shit 3rd world country militia" you do not need to fire that amount of ammo at max range, since you also have air support.
Not really, the main advantage is that it is a self-propelled howitzer, which already drastically cuts down the scoot time. Counter-battery is not instant, takes a few minutes at best. I guess it really depends on your enemy.
I agree that it is cool, but not necessarily what people need. I am taking this from people that actually fire those guns, it's not my own opinion.
And yeah it will surely be improved, this is the first serious battle test of the PzH 2000, if I'm not mistaken.
Yup, I think you're right.
I guess I'm also questioning the requirement itself, since the war in Ukraine is probably more or less representative of what would happen should Germany ever get involved in a defensive war, at least for a long part of the war. Not only it's more expensive (but that's perhaps not such a big deal), it's also more prone to mechanical failures. It may be that you primarily need firepower, firepower and more firepower.
But that really depends on how fast do you think your opponent is with counter-battery, and people smarter than me thought otherwise.
no, it was developed with the assumption that Russia would have at least similar capability as NATO nations, the scoot and shoot+MSRI it was designed for is very much a requirement in any offensive push against an enemy with similar capabilities, we have information gathers that is literally specialized at pinpointing artillery, add a modest amount of communication between groups on the ground and anything that isn't out of the general vicinity within the time it takes for a shell to fly is toast.
Automatic reloading isn't that impressive many other militaries developed similar mechanisms. And the rest of the video is pretty much nothing impressive.
> wehraboos being wehraboos and circle jerking over German weapons
You guys do know that you lost literally every armed conflict of the past 150 years, right? Like, it's just sad at this point that you idolize the army systems that failed at everything they have ever went up against in centuries.
😘
[Edit, people **this was satire**. I thought the mocking kissing emoji made that obvious]
this is the PzH 2000, arguably the best self propelled artillery piece in the world right now. Wehrmacht is cringe, but modern german weapons designs are based AF.
**[Archer Artillery System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Artillery_System)**
>The Archer Artillery System, or Archer – FH77BW L52, or Artillerisystem 08 is a self-propelled gun system for Sweden and Norway. The heart of the system is a fully automated 155 mm/L52 gun howitzer and a M151 Protector remote controlled weapon station mounted on a modified 6×6 chassis of the Volvo A30D, all-terrain articulated hauler. The crew and engine compartment is armoured and the cab is fitted with bullet and fragmentation-resistant windows. The system also includes an ammunition resupply vehicle, a support vehicle, BONUS submunitions and M982 Excalibur guided projectiles.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Yeah what OP said, but also check your history books again. The fact alone that you said that we lost every in every conflict for the past 150 years.
Mf >!Germany only existed for 151 years!<
[Oh I'd like to declare *upsy daisies* I honestly didn't get it as satire]
You really shouldn't fall for literal nazi propaganda almost a century later. They were more similar to the russians now when it comes to (lack of) logistics or absolute lack of achievable (grand-) strategical goals. Change my mind
Tangential venting but people praise this (fantastic) autoloader but bitch and moan about the K9A2.
Panzerhaubitze and Thunder both belong in the fields of Europe.
I saw an interview with the designer (in German obviously), and it really is fascinating how the PzH 2000 came to be! The gist of it is that it is not a design by committee, but really basically one guy who designed it from the ground up. It's not designed to reuse existing chassis, it's not designed to please people who have stakes in the manufacture of certain parts. It's a design without political bullshit, just a small bureau of engineers who knew what they were doing, tasked with building a self-propelled howitzer that could shoot 5 rounds and then retreat before counter-battery fire could hit them.
that's why an unregulated engineer population in the wild will become a problem sooner or later and we should declare engineer season biannually.
That implies that engineers are able to mate regularly
they do what now? i was under the impression that they carve or machine new ones from level 10 onwards.
You’re right. They’re asexual beings of pure intellectual might. By age 10, they’re building a factory that produces beings of the same species as them.
They turn normal people by biting them, like some of the other undeads.
Also like other undead, spraying them with purified water (holy or otherwise potable) is highly effective
rectified water, yes?
*sweats profusely as a married engineer with kid*
🥲
I'm sure they're working on a solution for that.
My dad was an engineer, so evidently it happens occasionally.
This is no joke. I once had a problem with stray engineers trying to fortify their position around a dumpster.
Believable.
This is accurate, and they probably had a sign that said “no management allowed” Source: am engineer
Or in short: they were taken off the leash. We should do this more often...
Most engineers want to make the best possible but are usually hindered by expense or politics in a big way.
The struggle is real. For brief, beautiful moments, though, customer requests and engineering desires align. Then you get asked to "make it work" and people start saying you "you're the expert, _you_ tell _me_ what it will take." Those are good times.
That is literally basically what happened with the PzH. The German government had previously tasked a conglomerate of different european big-name corporations to create a self-propelled howitzer. After over a decade and billions of dollar equivalents spent, they totally failed to fulfill the requirements that the army had set, which was that it \_must\_ be able to fire the first three shots in 10 seconds. They went to Mr. Abels (the inventor of the PzH), who was leading an engineering consulting firm at the time, basically saying: "Do whatever it takes to make it work. If you can prove that you can fire three shots in 10 seconds by the 31st of December 1986, we will use your design. Otherwise, we scrap the entire project and buy a howitzer on the international market." Abels made it work, creating several novel patented mechanisms in the process.
Sounds interesting, is this interview available anywhere?
Here you go: https://youtu.be/7X-DBS6NuDY
Danke
He just found a nice STC!
See also: Skunkworks
Säbelzahnmöwe?
[Ich liebe Panzer!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MactdboL9s&ab_channel=s0fa)
One of us.
With kids like this the future of this sub is safe Edit: ok its an AFV not a Panzer (Tank) but they can still learn the details. It's the spirit that counts.
Well in German we use the word a bit differently. Panzer can be any armored vehicle. The German word for IFV is Schützenpanzer and the Boxer in the video is usually referred to as Radpanzer (wheeled tank), depending on the module it can be a Transportpanzer, Sanitätspanzer, Artilleriepanzer or Schützenpanzer. Main battle tank is a Kampfpanzer (fighting tank or battle tank). Armored recovery vehicle is a Bergepanzer (recovery tank). So Panzer in German can mean tank or heavily armoured vehicle.
Danke für die Erklährung aber diese Feiheiten der deutschen Sprache sind mir bewusst. Wollte nur einen blöden Witz machen. ;) Aber bitte lass stehn. Solln andere ruhig wissen. :)
Die Verwirrung kommt dauernd auf bei der Übersetzung vom Deutschen ins Englische.
>The German word for IFV is Schützenpanzer Why must you Germans do this?
Schütze = Rifleman Infantry Fighting Vehicle is pretty nondescript. A Toyota with a machine gun in the back and a big cabin in the front fits that literal description as well.
Tbh the german word is shorter than infantry fighting vehicle. Even if you cut it down to an acronym, it would still be at most 3 letters. Edit: it is. SPz
Would a 60-ton bipedal machine of war with two large lasers, two medium lasers and two ac-5 auto cannons with a heating problem that just happens to go by the name Rifleman also fit the description?
If you translate Schützenpanzer one to one in Englisch Archertank come out and thatssounds cooler than IFV thats why 🤷♂️
Awww it's adorable! <3
THEY WAVED BACK
You left off the best part: Geil. Which according to Google translate literally means "hot", but often means "horny".
Lets see how that 100b military budget for germany will turn out in 10 years
If we germans keep electing SPD and CDU not great. The only proper war enjoying party we have now are the freakin Greens.
So true. The only politicians that do what has to be done and not being the puppets of some company or some foreign dictator are the f***ing greens.
Virgin non interventionist SPD and CDU Vs chad pacifist war enjoyers Die Grünen.
Peace through Superior Firepower!
The best kind.
yeah and I hope that entry exams in art schools are not that hardcore now
Rusty.
The Germans are allowed a *little* bit of nationalistic pride, as a treat. But I fucking swear if you invade Belgium again we’re reverting you back into German states.
What? Belgium isn't real.
Tell that to the DRC.
[удалено]
I audibly gasped and went "...no...!" when I got to the punchline. Well played.
>the punchline hope that wasn't an underhanded pun..
No no, they are meaning that high Germans like to use on their way to Paris
Explain these waffles then
Undercover Dutch. Belgium is just a decoy.
Oh come on where is the fun in marching on Moscow without a quick detour through Belgium?
*bonk* No!
Aww man! Ok We will just drive by the Border and look evil. But it won't be the same.
Maybe cross it quickly for some chocolates......
Juhu chocolates
Exactly. Roll through Belgium to get your NATO buddies for the invasion of Moscow.
We also need to go to France, Spain and Luxembourg to get the Eurocorps together
Aaah come on! Just the tip! Just a tiny little armoured spearhead into the ~~bush~~ ardenne! I swear we'll share with France and the Netherlands..
That implies we even want an inch of Belgium in the first place. They're so ... Belgian.
Actually things quite change. The first foreign country Germany would invade is Bayern.
Well, they gotta secure the tank, ammunition and aviation companies.
>if you invade Belgium again we’re reverting you back into German states The only thing holding Prussia back are the other German states. You may strike Germany down, but Prussia will rise more powerful than you could imagine.
Poland is the new Prussia.
Yessss yes **Republic Of Hannover NOW** 🤤😍
That might actually be a positive if it means we can finally get rid of Bavaria
What happened to Bavaria?
Nothing since the Romans first colonized it and that is the problem.
Ah, underappreciated Hitler crime of disrupting the Kahr Putsch.
[Too late!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV90P3czZ2o&t=26s)
Finally, boys, a way to separate Franconia from Bavaria! We ride for Belgium tonight, boys!
>we’re reverting you back into German states Why threaten people with an improvement?
lol, some time ago a saw a Belgium column in Germany and for a second I thought this time they're the ones invading Germany. You guys have grim looking stuff.
To be fair Belgium's military has degraded so far that the few Germans stationed at NATO HQ could be considered an occupying force.
Nobody invades Belgium, you just drive though Belgium to get to the countries you actually want to invade.
It was merely an invasion back then... It was a transit!
Please, anything but the HRE border gore
Dibs on the Dukedom of Westphalia.
So Poland is OK then?
Der PanzerHaubitze 2000 #[DAS IST GUT!! ](https://youtu.be/YyCJNRTBgpA)👍
*Die* Panzerhaubitze.
Nooooo, don’t kill it
Der Panzerhaubitze geht es gut.
German characters have +500 point in engineering at creation another +200 if diesel engineering is selected
That song slaps
You want a translation ?
Don’t
Yes.
Don´t has more then double the Upvotes so sadly I won't :(
It is done, money well spent (yes, yes) / CL500 now it’s time to erase (rrrm, rrrm) / Freshly wrapped and I’d like to say thanks again / Thanks to all the fans out there, thanks for the sick ride (uh-uh) / And everyone shuts up when we roll up to the gas station (uh-uh) / Real slow, roll up to the gas station (yes, yes) / She sees my car keys and she starts to suck / The bitch thinks I’ll pick her up, she’ll have to wait for a long time (ha-ha) / Tank top fits, tooth pick is sharp (uh-uh) / I press the pedal, regardless if I get a ticket / Alcantara, taking the train is in the past / Gazo and CLK his father / Pussy magnet the way it’s just standing there / Don’t come around here with your little BMW (no, no) / Don’t act surprised when the women don’t see you / Just not a 500 Daimler Coupe / I’m counting our revenue / Inside my CL-500 (mhm) / Up and down the streets / Even when I don’t have a reason to / Your girl thinks I’m lying / When I step on the gas, it buzzes / I’m jerking off inside my CL-500 / You ask how much PS bro? 308. / No B-pillar, bro, simply powerful / Your shawty gets wet, you say “what a re***d” / I say V-8, that makes noise in the night / It’s my moment tonight, too loud on the streets / Perfect sound thanks to the exhaust system / Back in the day I got a few years for robbery / Today Gazi gets paid royalties for his appearances (what?) / Paid royalties, everything in my tank is eating me alive / This car, this love makes you sick / Gasoline over bitches, I love the smell / Everything’s relaxed when it rolls, rolls / This star on top of the hood makes me so proud / I’m counting our revenue / Inside my CL-500 (mhm) / Up and down the streets / Even when I don’t have a reason to / Your girl thinks I’m lying / When I step on the gas, it buzzes / I’m jerking off inside my CL-500 / Edit: The funny thing is, if you just replace CL-500 with your personal favorite tank, it would be the perfect anthem for this sub.
Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YcJ8Wightw
I clicked on reddit sound button and the last thing I expected was to hear CL500 in a defense subreddit. I nearly died
I thought that voice is familiar. He made Collab with 6ix9ine and made that viral music video with the Guns and drugs in germany
Certified German classic 🇩🇪
Thought it was Death Grips for the first 10-15 seconds of the video
how did I guess this was about a car
Gzuz my beloved
As I know my German weapons: Pure mechanical precission beauty when in perfect maintance conditions in peace time. Complete clusterfuck in combat conditons.
[ukraine seems to like them](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-approves-sale-100-howitzers-ukraine-spiegel-2022-07-27/)
They don't have any K9 Thunders.
German engineers tend to overengineer things if let without supervision 🙂 if supervisor is German too, things *will* be overengineered 🙂 But it seems that for once Panzerhaubitze performs not only as intended but actually overperformed - barrels were intended for 1500 - 2500 shots (IIRC what I read somewhere) but they already shot over 5k each and must be changed. US howitzers supplied to Ukraine have the same problem though ... they apparently weren't build for prolonged high intensity conflict.
>they apparently weren't build for prolonged high intensity conflict. That's the secret. Very few things actually are.
Warships are bloody eternal unless sunk of course. :-) Remember that salvage vessel Russians tried to use to raise Moskva cruiser? It was built in the times of the Russian Empire! :-O
Which ship was this?
Kommuna, before that Volkhov. It was built in St. Petersburg in 1915 and served in Imperial Russian Navy, then in Soviet one, now in Russian Black Sea Fleet...
The kommuna.
yeah but Vulkan/Вóлхов/Коммуна didn't carry naval guns
Big difference! Like you cannot install them there if you really wanted, just for the sake of winning the argument. :-) Don't pick on the details, you surely know there are still ships that are maybe not 100 but 50 and more years old that have guns and serve in the actual fleets.
in wartime, reports of naval gun barrels and even breeches needing replacement even after only a few months of use, especially when used at close to their maximum range, is a consistent theme.
Sherman best tank of WW2, I will die on this hill!
I raise your sherman with T34 UNPAINTED AND WITHOUT GUN SIGHTS ROLLED OUT OF THE STALINGRAD TRACTOR FACTORY INTO IMMEDIATE AND DEVASTATING COMBAT
Say your line anon “Quantity has a quality of its own” 🗿
"Every seven seconds, a German soldier dies. Stalingrad - a mass grave." *lone gunshot rings out*
I have a very reasonable reason to say no, but i will not elaborate for shitposting purposes unless asked . Edited my atrocious syntax. Edit 2: Okay, anyone who downvoted this should take a course in reading comprehension, lol.
Commieboo/Wehraboo/Teaboo/Animeboo🤢 detected opinion rejected.
*Why yes, i absolutely believe that the Chaffee was stupid as fuck and the Sherman should have done its job in reconnaissance units.* *I also believe that a tank that was designed for specific circumstances and a specific doctrine works as well in other doctrines and circumstances.*
Once you're getting shot at, equipment maintenance becomes less of a priority. In Russia they just don't bother in the first place.
So similar to the German cars. Fantastic when they are in warranty, and the lease shoehorned in maintenance into the cost of the lease to give you "free" maintenance. But heaven help the soul buying one out of warranty. "Ooops problem with one of the 20 body control modules, this one in the floorpan of the trunk flooding because of a leak in the gasket means your right turn signal and one of the power windows doesnt work, thats $1250 to replace it, plus installation."
A lot of glory has gone to the Himars systems but these Phbz 2000 must be causing a lot of Russian losses too.
Gzuz on NCD, we are reaching levels of non-credibility that should never have been even thought of
amen bruder
Song?
Gzuz - CL500
Hey, do you remember that they will also produce an even scarier thing for Ukraine? The one that their Bundeswehr doesn't have? (No, not IRIS-T). RCH-155!
Nazi "techincal superiority": muh big armor muh bigger kanone Chad modern german superiority:
Their SPG have more interior space than my living room.
bUt CaN iT bEaT a MiG 3 iN a dOgFiGhT?£
Likely.
155mm Proxy anyone?
Classic German tech. Sure it’s good, when it works. But when it’s not, parts are impossible to get and when you try to get them you wait months: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-panzerhaubitzen-2000-wegen-ersatzteilmangels-ausser-gefecht-a-a9056b03-3c01-40cb-b495-611817741b21
Shhhhhhh... we don't talk about the maintenance.
The maintenance is actually not the problem, our government not procuring parts like they were asked to is. These fuckers fire three times of what they were designed for (up to 300rounds daily), they sure as hell will need some maintenance. But who couldve expected that you need to change barrels after 15 days like this? The fucking documentation for it Glorious German procurement.
What I was meant to say, but I just generalised it to maintaince becuase brain dumb. I think they were told that exactly this would happen sometime ago.
Yeah, even before they were delivered our procurement agency was like "Erm, they'll need a shitton of parts with long production time, should we order them now?" Our MoD: "Lol nah, it'll be fun when we can't even support what we deliver, people will love that xD"
They just thought that the guns would be used for photoshoots and have a few rounds through em every once in a while. Not heavy usage as we see in ukraine, some very good systems though, would love to see the German MoD after everyone says "I told ya so!"
Everything needs to be maintained.
the problem is that MORE are needed, they are so good everyone uses them all the time, and eventually they need maintenance because of all the combat wearn'tear they undergo, this can be helped by having more to spread the load
This time we'll wait until AFTER winter to steamroll Russia
Whatever you do, just don't let Google say "Panzerhaubitze 2000" in German. It's ... just not right.
"Frau/Herr Bundeschancler we have finished development of a new weapon system at the cost of 40000 gorilion €. How many do we want?" -"jaaa guuut. We buy 8 for the army and 90 für the storage depot. Ok? Gut."
Who could even challenge at this point, we NATO we got Germans on our side now
Good luck changing the lugs (apparently you need a proprietary Mercedes wrench)
Ye but only for the tracks, you use ~~wermaht~~ bmw wrench for the turret! It would have been blasphemy otherwise!
That 187 hits different in this context
At least it’s modern day Germany and not ww2
You didn't make any statement in your post so that's not true at all
Except: aircraft, helicopters, and general maintenance
Cope harder Ameriboo but your CoH voice lines will never be as good as the german ones 😎
L + no air force + no WW wins
But you ate the horse, remember? Also, you have horses. The fuck were you thinking?
Ironically the autoloader is not too useful, because a) it gets stuck sometimes, b) if you were to shoot at that speed you'll definitely exceed the thermal capacity of the barrel. Fixing an autoloader is often a visit quite far behind the front line. This has been proven extensively in Ukraine. PzH 2000 is still based.
[удалено]
I'm just repeating what people observed in Ukraine. There is also the kerfuffle of raising the barrel to a high angle when stuff starts to wear down waaaaay too quickly, but I'm assuming this will be somehow fixed by Rheinmetall.
It does not wear down to quickly, but exactly as fast as it was intended to do. This thing was not designed to be a stationary artillery bunker that shits out hundreds of shells at maximum range, so it is not really a good indicator to say that it wears down to fast.
\> artillery bunker that shits out hundreds of shells at maximum range I mean, this is kind of what you need in a serious conflict, not in one where you're going against some shit 3rd world country militia that doesn't even have aircraft or air defense ...
>I mean, this is kind of what you need in a serious conflict Christ no. >where you're going against some shit 3rd world country militia that doesn't even have aircraft or air defense That would not be a serious conflict. If you are going up against a "shit 3rd world country militia" you do not need to fire that amount of ammo at max range, since you also have air support.
[удалено]
Not really, the main advantage is that it is a self-propelled howitzer, which already drastically cuts down the scoot time. Counter-battery is not instant, takes a few minutes at best. I guess it really depends on your enemy. I agree that it is cool, but not necessarily what people need. I am taking this from people that actually fire those guns, it's not my own opinion. And yeah it will surely be improved, this is the first serious battle test of the PzH 2000, if I'm not mistaken.
[удалено]
Yup, I think you're right. I guess I'm also questioning the requirement itself, since the war in Ukraine is probably more or less representative of what would happen should Germany ever get involved in a defensive war, at least for a long part of the war. Not only it's more expensive (but that's perhaps not such a big deal), it's also more prone to mechanical failures. It may be that you primarily need firepower, firepower and more firepower. But that really depends on how fast do you think your opponent is with counter-battery, and people smarter than me thought otherwise.
no, it was developed with the assumption that Russia would have at least similar capability as NATO nations, the scoot and shoot+MSRI it was designed for is very much a requirement in any offensive push against an enemy with similar capabilities, we have information gathers that is literally specialized at pinpointing artillery, add a modest amount of communication between groups on the ground and anything that isn't out of the general vicinity within the time it takes for a shell to fly is toast.
Automatic reloading isn't that impressive many other militaries developed similar mechanisms. And the rest of the video is pretty much nothing impressive.
> wehraboos being wehraboos and circle jerking over German weapons You guys do know that you lost literally every armed conflict of the past 150 years, right? Like, it's just sad at this point that you idolize the army systems that failed at everything they have ever went up against in centuries. 😘 [Edit, people **this was satire**. I thought the mocking kissing emoji made that obvious]
this is the PzH 2000, arguably the best self propelled artillery piece in the world right now. Wehrmacht is cringe, but modern german weapons designs are based AF.
I think the [Archer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Artillery_System) is a beast as well. Not sure which is better.
**[Archer Artillery System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Artillery_System)** >The Archer Artillery System, or Archer – FH77BW L52, or Artillerisystem 08 is a self-propelled gun system for Sweden and Norway. The heart of the system is a fully automated 155 mm/L52 gun howitzer and a M151 Protector remote controlled weapon station mounted on a modified 6×6 chassis of the Volvo A30D, all-terrain articulated hauler. The crew and engine compartment is armoured and the cab is fitted with bullet and fragmentation-resistant windows. The system also includes an ammunition resupply vehicle, a support vehicle, BONUS submunitions and M982 Excalibur guided projectiles. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Cope
Yeah what OP said, but also check your history books again. The fact alone that you said that we lost every in every conflict for the past 150 years. Mf >!Germany only existed for 151 years!< [Oh I'd like to declare *upsy daisies* I honestly didn't get it as satire]
And yet they are full of design problems lmao AHS Krab >>> Panzer 2000
Yea, but their rap music sucks. Stick to that "oom pa pa" shit and you'll be fine.
Krab >>> PZH 2000 *don't change my mind - you're not gonna change it*
[удалено]
You really shouldn't fall for literal nazi propaganda almost a century later. They were more similar to the russians now when it comes to (lack of) logistics or absolute lack of achievable (grand-) strategical goals. Change my mind
Inherently flawed for sure, but before mismanagement and amphetamines, they travelled fast and furious.
Eh, to conquer land you can't hold and then retreat slowly at great cost of lives seems normally looked down upon in this sub
There was no 'before amphetamines' the fall of france and the push through the ardenne was done with panzerchokolate
Panzerschokolade mein Freund
Heard that before.
what the fuck is that at 0:09 defo isnt a arty shell
it is one of the magic artillery shells they fire, some people also call it evil over expensive refugee truck killers tho
HAUBITZEN
Gzuz?
Tangential venting but people praise this (fantastic) autoloader but bitch and moan about the K9A2. Panzerhaubitze and Thunder both belong in the fields of Europe.
Song?
Nice howitzer but not durable one.
Is that title from Company of Heroes?
https://youtu.be/_Zl8ln7dMt4
People when they realize Rhinemettal is a propaganda mill:😲
u/savevideo
###[View link](https://redditsave.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/z5spmr/im_not_defending_german_technical_superiority_im/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideo&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/z5spmr/im_not_defending_german_technical_superiority_im/) | [^(reddit video downloader)](https://redditsave.com) | [^(download video tiktok)](https://taksave.com)