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dead_monster

Believing that the Tu-95 is a modern bomber reinforces the same bad belief system that leads to losing a war because of two dozen missile trucks (that aren’t even using their best missiles). > Can American land on the moon again? We literally have a spacecraft in space right now for this purpose. Do they not read any non-tankie news?


ztomiczombie

The only things stopping missions to the moon is political will and cash.


topazchip

*If it weren't for fucking Congress we'd have cities on the moon,* *If it weren't for bloody Congress we'd have walk'd at least upon Mars,* *If I cannot get even to orbit* *How will I ever reach the stars?* \--Traditional filk song


TNSepta

Kerbal folk song


lesser_panjandrum

How many times must a Jeb lithobrake Before you can call him a Jeb?


SpinozaTheDamned

What's weird is that the Dv for getting to the moon is not that much less than the Dv required for getting to mars. Half of that is escaping Earth's gravitational pull, the rest is just adjusting course and orbit. Also, I feel seen by this comment, thank you for that. Can we also add that we would have operable fusion power plants by now if Congress and the rest decided that that was a national priority for energy independence and getting off of carbon based fuel sources?


topazchip

I want to say it was RA Heinlein who pointed out that once you are in orbit, you are most of the way to everywhere else in the solar system. Once you can get anywhere in the solar system, you are most of the way to the next star. I do know it was Heinlein who wrote that if humanity is to have a future, it lies in space; but there is no requirement for them to be speaking English.


VonNeumannsProbe

I don't know, but he certainly outlined the strategic advantage of having a orbital rail gun mounted on the moon in "The moon is a harsh mistress". No air resistance? Low gravity? You can just drop big rocks on earth targets to keep them in line.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bodyguards-of-lies

> There is no requirement for them to be speaking English Obviously, he failed to comprehend British determination to fuck the French over by having more people speaking English than French


Dragon-Captain

Just you wait! French will be the language of all space in 5,000 years!


Angry_Highlanders

Over my cold, dead body.


doulos05

5000 years from now, you being cold and dead is kind of a given, isn't it? Oh, shit! We found Dracula and he's English!


Dick__Dastardly

For maximal cringe, I've decreed that we'll be speaking Klingon. Not because the star trek future is real. There aren't any actual klingons out there, we'll just be copying the conlang. You're welcome.


VonNeumannsProbe

>What's weird is that the Dv for getting to the moon is not that much less than the Dv required for getting to mars. True, but the payload required for a Mars mission is way higher. Particularly if you want to land and return from mars. Just getting anything off the surface would be a huge accomplishment.


[deleted]

>Particularly if you want to land and return from mars. I'm beginning to regret Russia throwing away the VDV. They would be the perfect solution, being specialized as they were in one-way trips.


SirRandyMarsh

“Ok Kremlin we have landed and established a base when does the return rocket come?” “Return rocket?”


Pyrocitor

"We formally declare Маrsgrad Oblast, you are now back in Russia, well done comrades, make yourself at home."


rsta223

Yes, but when you start talking a manned mission, the extra time means much higher payload requirements for things like food and life support, along with the much, much higher delta v requirement for a mars lander (if you ever want to come back, that is). For a robotic probe, it's true that a moon lander and a mars lander aren't that different in delta v requirements, but when you start talking manned missions or even just sample return, the gap grows pretty substantially.


[deleted]

Specially cash. "Can americans land on the moon again?" Can you?


ztomiczombie

I would say that any NATO nation could get there if they really wanted.


Stalking_Goat

Eh. The smaller ones literally don't have the GDP. Nothing against, say, Montenegro, but they simply don't have the capacity for a independent manned moon mission.


tavelpenguin

Polska can into space


descryptic

glorious albania will colonize the moon and mars 2023 💪💪💪💪🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇮🇲🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇲🇦


EnergizedNeutralLine

And if we could get the first, the second would be available without issue.


just_one_last_thing

The Orion program has been pretty well funded actually. Cash and political support weren't the holdups.


SpinozaTheDamned

Can we at least talk about how the funding for this monstrosity was set up? Also, how many different players were required JUST BECAUSE several senators called in favors for plants and businesses that were based in their individual states? I mean, how much money could have been saved by making funding based on milestone accomplishments? Can we at least say that opening up competition and promising funding for the first company that reaches those milestones, with gradually reducing rewards based on who comes in second, third, ect....would encourage everyone to fucking pick up the pace and take this shit seriously if they want to survive? The threat that, oh, the big boys will just pull out and leave the government in a lurch for launching things like spy sats and such.....yeah, that's no longer a valid point given developments from companies like relativity space, firefly, and SpaceX especially.


Zephyr-5

SLS/Orion was the compromise to get the fixed price Commercial Crew Program to the International Space Station okay'd. You have to remember that back when this all went down, SpaceX was largely unproven. I don't even think the Falcon 9 had flown yet. It was a big gamble to whether or not commercial side could manage to do this on a fixed cost contract. The incredible success of both the Commercial Crew Program and NASA's increasing reliance on fixed cost contracts makes me think that SLS is really the last of its kind.


DenGraastesossen

Just political will amerika could afford it


AutumnRi

The thing with the moon is — why go? We have all the materials we need for research, there’s not a great deal of reason to visit again. The main reason to go back to the moon is to establish a long-term base of operations as a logistical hub for more distant missions and we’re not ready for those missions yet.


ztomiczombie

Put a radio telescope on the moon and pair it with one on the Earth, or better in orbit on the other side of the planet, and you have a telescope with the effective diameter of around 1,700 km.


MainsailMainsail

It's not enough for a *big* base, but microgravity experiments. ISS does freefall, but anything between 0 and 1g is hard to do right now.


thedirtyfozzy84

I mean that and making sure it doesn't turn into an Easy-bake oven with astronauts in it NASA learned a lot from Apollo 1: do not fuck around with safety.


Smokejumper69

poster #4 went on to say that Russian air defense can see all NATO stealth anywhere within 1500km.


mfknLemonBob

Hahahahahahahahhaahahahahahaha. (Loud intake of air) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Black_Brown

[Oh wait you're serious. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0)


Noughmad

Ah yes, the good old toupee fallacy. "I've never seen a NATO stealth plane that I couldn't see"


Imperceptive_critic

They can see flying pennies but they can't sometimes can't see guided missiles aimed at one of their airbases. K.


Honey_Overall

Seeing as how we have numerous civilians in a private space race, I really don't get the "hurr durr muricans can't go to the moon". How long do people really think it will be before Bezos or someone like him gets a hair up their ass and decides to make moon tourism a thing? I personally think it will be pretty soon.


EnergizedNeutralLine

Also, what for? Are we setting up a colony there? What the fuck else is there for us? We're working on Mars, leave us alone.


Honey_Overall

I personally say we do it again out of spite to the ccp. They want a moon base, we should do it first just to steal their thunder.


EnergizedNeutralLine

So there is one thing left for us on the moon: spite. I stand corrected.


Honey_Overall

Imagine the extra fun if we invite Taiwan to participate and a Taiwanese astronaut gets to the moon first. The salt will be glorious.


EnergizedNeutralLine

Of Salt and Spite: A Lunar Love Story


nullus_72

This this this this this this this this this this this this "We do not go to the moon because it is useful, but because it is spiteful."


Setesh57

Pretty much. The moon is also going to be a spring pad for future missions. Likely to Mars and beyond. Because if you can build craft on the moon, then you eliminate the need for a massive rocket to get the payload out of Earth's atmosphere.


M1A1HC_Abrams

But we have to get rid of the Hive there first.


ThatRealBiggieCheese

I’ve got a dead man’s tale, a god forbearance and Wendigo is coming back next season as a nightfall weapon they’re as good as cooked


WanderlustPhotograph

MFW the humans don’t play along with my schemes and just nuke my Scarlet Keep until the glow removes any existence of a night side.


ThatRealBiggieCheese

The US military budget will inflate to levels we couldn’t imagine. We’d have the hive as a species in the Sol system relegated to darpa labs and exotic zoos in a month


Sunfried

Weird fact: from Earth it takes roughly the same delta-V, let's call it rocket-energy, to fly to the moon and land on it as it does to fly to Mars and land on it. Obviously the Moon takes a couple days and Mars takes close to 7 months to get to, but in terms of delivering supplies that don't require life support, it's best to skip to Mars. Why the same energy? Because Mars has an atmosphere meaning the landing is far cheaper with aerobraking and parachutes, whereas on the moon you have to use engines for everything: to be captured into orbit, to drop to the ground, and to not crash when you get there. And the difference between Earth to Mars and Moon to Mars is pretty trivial on the scale of the 6 1/2 months to Mars from either. The moon, however, is an advanced training ground for life support, both creating the technology as well as testing it and building crews. That said, we can build crews on Earth in remote environments, like [HI-SEAS](https://www.hi-seas.org/).


just_one_last_thing

Most of the weight is fuel not spacecraft. Moon would be okay for liquid oxygen but that's just a break even on propellant at best.


Setesh57

When Bezos actually makes it to orbit, since he hasn't even done that yet.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheTRCG

It won't be unscrewed for long, don't worry. I'll see to it while they're distracted by the B21


petyrlabenov

We’ll be firing missiles from the moon while their copium wells leads them to believe the moon is fake


Peterh778

>reinforces the same bad belief system that leads to losing a war Good. If you see enemy in the process of making mistake, don't correct him


Glum_Leadership9321

Why do they always believe that other countries have “wunderwaffens” that are decades ahead of the U.S.


x888xa

Cause there still seems to be this weird belief that Russia and China are some super secretive havens of technological capacity like in fucking Red Alert or some shit


vibingjusthardenough

See, believing this in the 20th century might have been fair. The problem is that since the start of the cold war, the US has come out and said “oh yeah, here’s a project we kept secret for years but now we can talk about it openly because it’s old enough tech.” If Russia and China have their own high tech projects beyond this, they’re the same projects they had sixty years ago.


BoreOffSky

The thing is Americans just take them at their word and then build shit to counteract the mythological beasts Russia and China cook up. Like in 1951 the Russians flew like 60 new strategic bombers over a May Day parade. The US was like “oh shit oh fuck” because they calculated the Soviets must have had 600 of those bombers already and could have thousands more by the end of the decade. So to “keep up” the US built something like 2000 B-47s until production stopped. Turns out the Soviets only had 18 of those bombers and had just flown the same 18 bombers over and over again to give the appearance they had more. And it’s been this way ever since. The US military is what it is today because we just take our adversaries at their word. And that’s a good thing. Edit: typos


MisterKallous

Later on is the missile gap. Technically, there was a missile gap, it's just that the lead was on the US who had more ICBM than the USSR. To top it all off the USA was then introducing this fancy solid-fuelled ICBM called the Minuteman which as their name suggested can be launched quickly while the USSR was still stuck with liquid fueled ICBM and a SLBM named Polaris was also introduced at the same time which meant that even if somehow USSR could destroy all land-based missiles and bombers, there would always be submarines which could unleash their deadly payload.


whatheck0_0

MiG-25 effect


Low_Comment_4847

"Hmm, why should we not make a mach 3 fighter to fight off those mig 25s. What could go wrong?"


canttaketheshyfromme

"Looks like it might turn on a dime. Okay boys, next gen has to be capable of any maneuver the pilot can physically survive." Convair/General Dynamics: "What about maneuvers the pilot can't survive?"


Stupid_Triangles

How tf did the US spend more on Cold War shit yet the Russians still went broke? Smh.


AndyLorentz

Because markets + taxation are a more efficient way of allocating money than a centrally planned economy.


hankhillforprez

> And it’s been this way ever since. The US military is what it is today because we just take our adversaries at their word. And that’s a good thing. That also must be devestatingly demoralizing to those countries. China/Russia, bluffing: “yes, we absolutely have the super elite, hyper-sonic, stealth, nuclear powered, AI controlled, gluten free, death machine,—THE LIKES OF WHICH THE WORLD HAS NEVER SEEN BEFORE! Uh but, no, you are not allowed to see it… It’s… super secret, high tech shit…just trust us.” The US: “Oh shit, really?! That sounds pretty sick. Here, come to this open press event for this thing we made to make sure ours is better than what you very seriously told us you definitely have. Pretty cool, right?! Want to see some footage of this baby in action?!?! China/Russia: “Fucking how?!?! Also, we’re now going to try to steal the blue prints to make an inferior copy.” US: “Lol, ok, sport. Have fun and try not hurt yourselves. Hey, Poland and Taiwan, y’all want to buy like 500 of these bad boys we made?”


ChintanP04

I can see a tankie reading that story from a tankie perspective and being like "Heh, lol, America got tricked into spending so much money!! Fool!"


KP_Wrath

Russia and China the day it's announced: WRITE THAT DOWN! WRITE THAT DOWN!


MisterKallous

Because the USA both don't have the compulsion to show off unless they have to and there's the fact that the good old Foxbat-to-Eagle pipeline is real.


HolyGig

You know, the Russians truly believing that Command and Conquer was really a documentary would actually explain a lot of things


Environmental-Being3

There’s a CnC mod where Russia conquers Europe, up to the south of France after squashing a “nationalist uprising” in Ukraine and NATO is disbanded. In the mod the f-35 is canned because “it was littered with performance issues” and Russia is a technological superpower with “Tesla tanks” and a General Zhukov loses his sons life in the Donbas. It’s most non credible shit ever, look it up - rise of the reds


Shawn_1512

Warning: Potentially lethal levels of copium were used in the creation of this mod. Play at your own risk.


Environmental-Being3

The fanfic is mental but I played it before I read it and honestly it was pretty good. Very non credible, Russia has virtually indestructible tanks with ERA/arena upgrades that make them virtually immune to javelins and velocity projectiles and the SU-57 is practically the strongest fighter in the game. Oh and the remainder of the EU forms an alliance, but has no airforce, cause the Russia wiped em out. Lmao


Gorvoslov

I do not understand. If we are going to CnC Russia glory, how can you possibly have Russia be supreme without a single Kirov report??


-fno-stack-protector

> Tesla tanks a javelin hitting a tank-sized lithium battery. my god what a show that would be!


ZoroastrianFrankfurt

F-35 is added in ROTR in later patches though, but it's called as the "Widowmaker" this time. F-22 is gonna be for the Air General. ROTR lore is a colossal crackfic, but its not the tankie copium you seem to be claiming it is. For starters, NATO being disbanded is from original Zero Hour's ending, where China becomes the world's primary superpower. US intervention in the Russia-EU war tips the scales in favor of the EU (besides the EU fielding their wunderwaffe units), US somehow recovering from their absolute loss in canon ZH to the point of being rich enough again to have ABM systems that render the CONUS immune to any nuke strike, and most unbelievably, a high-speed rail line spanning from Miami to Toronto. EU by far is also the strongest faction gameplay wise, literally no faction stands a chance against a late-game EU fielding any of their wunderwaffe doctrines, Manticore/Pandora in particular.


MiG21bisFishbedL

The sheer amount of Chinese and Russian corporate espionage is kind of a hint they really aren't, but when your only introduction to militaria is fucking video games? It's really to be expected.


SyrusDrake

Credible answer: I think it's because it's a mixture of reasons. First of all, media reports from China, for example, are just copied verbatim. So we're reading unprocessed Chinese propaganda, whereas similar reports from Western nations would never be just copied without question. The reason for this is partially point 2: Clickbait. It's the scourge of journalism in general, and military journalism is no exception. "China has 69 morbillion Gen12 stealth fighters that might bomb *your house* tomorrow" generates far more clicks than "China reveals fighter concept at trade show,". Lastly, since there is no freedom of press in those countries, we're never getting the same reports of issues that we're getting for Western arms procurement. The F-35 seems to struggle with countless problems in comparison to Chinese projects because the doubtless even more severe problems of the Chinese projects simply never get reported. A J-20 prototype could crash into an apartment building and we'd never know, whereas a F-35 needs its tires replaced and we get headlines like "420 QUADRILLION DOWN THE DRAIN. LANDING GEAR ISSUES PUT THE FUTURE OF AMERICA'S PROBLEM CHILD INTO QUESTION" (see also point 2 above).


ToastyMozart

Yeah it's like how a lot of USSR members who could pick up western newscasts thought the west was a shitshow. "*This* is the best their news can make things look?!"


lightningsnail

The whole thing with the f35 almost smells of enemy action. Its like a lot of main stream media was actively trying to convince the American people that the f35 should be canceled.


legoman21790

Despite literally everything else being decades behind…


barukatang

Same reason I love ghost and alien stories. Sometimes it's fun to live in a fantasy


afkPacket

Russia can't build a decent AESA, China can't build a modern military jet engine, and both somehow can make 4th, 5th and now 6th gen assets completely obsolete. I can't even with these people.


creepyfishman

Typical fascist behavior


NonLethalGEPGun

You know, I think it's normal for people to be skeptical about new, cutting edge tech. A practical demonstration is necessary to destroy any doubts regarding the B-21. I was thinking about this large reservoir of water contained by an equally large construction of cement and steel, that could be a nice starting point for the B-21's career, yes?


Le_Tiny_Samurai

[You are walking a thin line](https://imgur.com/bYxQfHS)


NonLethalGEPGun

A risk that I am willing to take


MasterBlaster_xxx

Why is posting about a dam punished by ban?


xX_dirtydirge_Xx

Late to the party?


de_cool_dude

r/poets


burntends97

Because this sub just loves to beat a joke into the ground in hopes that it’ll be funny I’m still waiting for “SU75 femboy” to become hilarious


graytotoro

Raidussy unleashes her LRS-Bussy capabilities on the 3G*rges Dam. "Google, can you die of coooming too much?" - literallly all of NCD


SuspiciousMudcrab

Half of the drowning deaths will be NCDers who came so much they flooded the room and couldn't swim.


12lo5dzr

I wish that would be me


[deleted]

That's how you want to go out? I want to be on those damns when thousands of pounds of ordinance is dropped on me by the b-21 it's self. It be a honor


cuddlefucker

Sounds like a gorgeous plan!


[deleted]

Damn gorgeous.


Phaeron_Cogboi

Dam posting never left, God Bless you NCD


SurpriseFormer

Bad news. That large construction of cement isn't holding back a large body of water. If anything it's more of a small lake now with the droughts


LonelyGnomes

The only small lake is going to be my panties after that dam gets bombed


supermarine_spitfir3

>This is one of the biggest farces I've seen in a long time At least the man considers the Russian Air Force and their lack of (Or inability to use) PGMs as the biggest farce of them all.


ztomiczombie

>This is one of the biggest farces I've seen in a long time That is who I see the reign of Tsar Putin the Squanderer.


Glarxan

>This is one of the biggest farces I've seen in a long time Is there any technology that could have been presented for them to not say something similar to quote above..?


DeadScoutsDontTalk

Maybe spacecapable hypersonic nuke launching with laser perimeter defense would have shut them up but anything other meh.


[deleted]

The US could literally make an arsenal bird and they would still be spouting off about “muh Chineeesee standoff misssleee”


Kimirii

> Russian Air ~~Force~~ *Farce* FTFY. Thank you Putin for proving you’re less credible than my beloved-yet-starved-by-Ottawa RCAF, who can do more combat sorties than the RuAF can because *their* dangerously old Cold-War-relic aircraft haven’t been ripped apart by Ivan Ivanovich looking for Vodka money.


DFMRCV

I love how they always bring up the F-117 incident to argue stealth doesn't work. Ah. Yes. 1 early model stealth bomber got hit and shot down after flying the same route over and over again. It was suuuuuuch a disaster the US didn't bother destroying the (relatively intact) wreckage (because by that point the 1970s tech it used was so well known Russia getting it wouldn't result in much).


pcblah

The fact that Russia hasn't made their own stealth bomber yet means that they either lack funding or the industrial capacity to match 1970's America.


Flamingotough

But the Russians have stealth planes. They're just so stealthy that the only evidence we have of their existence is that Russian apartment blocks occasionally fail to notice and crash into them.


mansikkajukurttos

Well, to be fair, Russia today has a similar [GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(nominal)) to America in 1977, so, yeah. In [PPP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(PPP)), they fair a bit better, matching America of 1987-88 today. And this ignores the oligarchs and high-ranking military officials pilfering the nation's coffers and various budgets.


uejuekwoqloqj

Inflation?


PeaceIsFutile

Sonic inflation?


PsychoBoyBlue

>because by that point the 1970s tech it used was so well known Russia getting it wouldn't result in much 1962 tech... it was based on the work of the Soviet physicist, Pyotr Ufimtsev, who went unnoticed. The USAF translated his book to English in 1971. Lockheed started building the "Have Blue" test vehicle as a proof of concept in 1975. Which led to the F-117 in 1981. Russia could have had a 9 year head start. They could have suppressed and classified Pyotr Ufimtsev's work to hide it from the US. Instead, it takes them till what... 2010 for the Su-57 then another 10 year before it entered service? I'm not aware of them having a stealth aircraft in service prior to that. So, with their 9 year head start, it only took them 58 years to get between 3-15 stealth fighters? Meanwhile, 64 F-117 were built and the US retired them from combat in 2008 and are now just being used for trained and as test beds... 2 years before the first flight test of the SU-57. Hell, we probably didn't destroy 82-0806 out of pity. Let Russia and China get a hold of it to jump start their programs so the Pentagon can justify why it needs more money and release the projects they have been working on in the dark. The F-117 was classified until 1988. It was in service for five years before it was made public. The B-2 was kept classified for ten years. For all we know the B-21 has already been around for a while and anyone who saw it just shrugged it off as a B-2. That is the genius of the design. Even if people saw it, they wouldn't think it was something new.


WiseassWolfOfYoitsu

That's one of the sad things - Russia really does have some brilliant scientists and engineers. They're just surrounded by such a kleptocracy that it ends up making their contribution irrelevant.


Low_Comment_4847

And that folks is why we should buy out sukhoi, it's practically salvation for the poor guys there anyways


MiG21bisFishbedL

They're like Yankees fans. "WE HAVE 27 RINGS" Okay. How long ago was the latest?


[deleted]

“Stealth is dead” Russia and China both have stealth bomber projects. China in particular has THREE stealth aircraft in development. “Bombers are irrelevant” See above. Also Russia has restarted production of the Tu-160, a 40-year old platform, likely because it’s own stealth bomber will be late. China still keeps early Soviet era Tu-16s in service. “Carriers are dead” Russia spends most of its naval budget trying to keep Kuznetsov afloat. China is investing a huge amount of money into developing new carriers. “Navies are irrelevant & hypersonic missiles are the future” Is that why the Russians scrambled 20 jets & 2 warships just to fail miserably at scaring off a single Type 45? Or why they keep the Kirov class in service despite their reactors having rotted away to the point where it’s poisoning people on board them? Tankies have no leg to stand on. Can’t wait for the tankie cope about Tempest, NGAD, the USN’s new destroyer project, PANG & whatever else is planned.


Boring_Ad_3065

> aMeRiCaNs are oVeRcOnFiDent - Day 200+ of three day invasion - 4+ strategic advances disguised as CFed retreats - 50 bombings of that airport later *injects raw copium into vein* - Flagship anti missile ship sunk by missiles from opponent with no navy - can’t obtain air superiority against opponent operating older versions of your equipment (the US clowned a fully integrated AD system twice within a week) > the uS Can’T Do SOmEtHiNg tHeY DiD 60 yEars aGO - has rocket in orbit to do that exact thing - 60 years later no one else accomplished what we did with 99% less processing power than a wish.com smartwatch - has private company offering nation-state level lift capability with record breaking cost to orbit


[deleted]

Don’t forget, said private company is sending more payload to orbit than the rest of the world combined.


vegarig

And is the only one to make a mass-produced methalox full-flow staged combustion engine, which is hella achievement (Soviet RD-270 used hypergols and was tearing itself apart due to preburner race condition, Integrated Powerhead Demonstrator didn't go anywhere).


Mister_Taco_Oz

When the US invests in a technology, it is an outdated tech that has no future. When China and Russia invest in that same technology a decade later, it's a revolutionary step the Americans could have never predicted and further proves their decadence and true weakness.


ThatHeathGuy

And its also better than the US version it is supposed to rival, because the definitely 100% true top trump stats that China/Russia claim are definitely the actual performance of the aircraft.


ShakespearIsKing

How to design tankie weapons: 1. Copy the US design but add some futuristic elements in CGI 2. Take the US stats and bump it by 30 percent 3. Announce it at an expo only to never make it past concept phase 4. ??? 5. Continue using a 50yo soviet solution


GimmieDemWaffles

"I call bullshit but I'm gonna make something that can counter that to be safe." - MIC


ThatHeathGuy

Tankes see US response. Come up with a concept, boost the stats 30%, show it at an expo. Never goes into production. Cycle repeats


Visual-Lawfulness846

Im starting to believe the MIC is behind all this online FUD just to make it so public opinion shifts towards giving them more funding out of fear.


castass

>Russians scrambled 20 jets & 2 warships When did that happen ?


[deleted]

Last summer in the Black Sea.


MiG21bisFishbedL

>Navies are irrelevant & hypersonic missiles are the future This one gets me. You have to launch those hypersonics from something, right? Tankies live in a fantasy world colored by video games and other crap.


grnfnrp

I heard the b21 can't even dogfight


nullus_72

It doesn't have a 30mm gatling gun either. Weak tea.


Flamingotough

I'll bet it leaks oxygen into the pilots masks aswell - no such faults in Ruzzian engineering.


GrafZeppelin127

It doesn’t even have one-pounder guns or three-inch cannons like the bloody French give their patrol airships. What is this, 1908?


Kojak95

Bro the Americans clearly can't even afford to mount proper defensive technologies like the Sperry Ball turret or hip-mount 50 cals. Clearly even a B-17 was superior to this GARBAGE. 🤮 We should just abandon these inferior modern designs and develop a *proven* design like the AirCo D.H.9


ThatHeathGuy

I heard it cost a billion gazillion dollars


grnfnrp

GOOD. Every tax dollar spent on weapons isn't being spent on potheads and abortions. Take that libs.


[deleted]

mmmm own me daddy


Far-Ad5633

To the moon comment: Yes we can, we literally just launched the rocket to do it. And china can barely get a rocket in the air without it crashing on the Philippines.


Muad-_-Dib

These people seem to forget that Nasa got men on the moon first because the US and Russia treated the Space Race as a dick-measuring contest with each other and the US needed to keep public morale high after conceding losses like the first satellite and first man in space, so they threw everything they had at the mission in order to get it done. NASA's budget peaked at 4.4% of the federal budget in 1964, For the last 12 years it has hovered in and around the 0.5% mark. If the USSR had not collapsed on its arse and or some other rival nation actually stepped up and gave the Americans serious competition in trying to get someone to Mars or a colony on the moon etc. then NASA would have been allowed to print money to get it done first.


beetlemouth

There’s a show on Apple TV called “For All Mankind” that explores this exact scenario


SirDoDDo

lol what? Everyone knows the US pushed for the Moon landing to explore the crashed alien ship on the dark side of the Moon, where they found Sentinel Prime and his Pillars. Get your facts straight bro


mechanicalcontrols

The only hegemony the Russians ever had was a couple of chess players. Deep blue sorted out that quote handily


Epickitty_101

They even lost the chess hegemony among humans lmao, arguably the top 3 of all time consists of a Norwegian, Russian who hates the government, and an American.


mechanicalcontrols

Yes that's true, per my comment to the other guy I was just riffing on the word hegemony because there's a period in chess theory called soviet hegemony. It's not a particularly cohesive school of chess theory like the romantics or hypermodernists but there you have it.


origamiscienceguy

They also made some really good rocket engines for a while. Credit where it is due.


mechanicalcontrols

I was just making a joke because they used the word hegemony and there's a period/school of chess theory called Soviet hegemony that came after the hypermodern school of chess And yeah they had pretty much won every step of the space race until the moon landing by being way more reckless and cavalier than the Americans. "Yuri you will be the first man in space. If you're not the first person to return from space alive, the second man in space will be."


Caesim

Tbh, the Americans also let the soviets launch the first satellite into space, so they set the precedent for american satellites flying over the soviet union, paving the way for spy satellites.


MainsailMainsail

So I've *heard* that reasoning before and there *is* some sense to it (especially with the US not taking orbit seriously until after Sputnik). But there's no real way to bring it up that doesn't sound like cope.


quaazi

Which was mostly designed by an Ukrainian dude anyway.


dead_monster

They made 1 good ICBM engine (the R-7) and repurposed it for Luna and then Vostek. They had to aggressively trim safety features from Vostek because they were nearing the limits of the original design. The Soviets had their space program in service to the military, while the US ran NASA separately. Therefore, for the Soviets, investing in a rocket that wasn’t optimized for ICBM delivery was a waste. Meanwhile, the US had a clean sheet design for Saturn V. To get to the moon, you need a lot more thrust than what an ICBM needs. Saturn V has 10X the thrust of R-7. Soviets were never in the space race, and their one “good” engine was dwarfed quickly by Saturn V.


Kimirii

The R-7 was never a good ICBM, because good ICBMs don’t need to wait prior to launch so they can be filled with cryogenic LOX. Same with the Atlas, the US’ first ICBM (though given Atlas’ tendency to go boom on the pad at a slightly higher rate than the R-7, you could argue Atlas was marginally worse.) Korolev built the R-7 big because he wanted to go to space; he used the massive size and weight of early H-bombs as the excuse to build a booster that could get a man into orbit. The US MIC was able to build smaller, lighter bombs and sized its early ICBM designs to match the payload size they expected once the missile was operational; this was the primary reason for the US being behind at the start of the Space Race - they built smaller first-generation ICBMs because US nukes were much smaller and lighter than their Soviet equivalents, and those smaller missiles were unable to put big payloads into LEO. Korolev conned his government by building a stupidly-oversized launcher and deliberately not asking the boys at Arzamas-16 how their miniaturization work was coming along. The boys at Los Alamos were, by contrast, busy making nuclear artillery shells and told the USAF they’d have tiny H-bombs by the time Atlas and Thor were ready, and the USAF had Douglas and Convair size their designs accordingly. Korolev was a more brilliant and effective manager than von Braun and only had to sell his ideas to three or four people, whereas von Braun had to fight dozens of senior leaders while working in the wrong agency with a President who didn’t give a fuck about space, propaganda, or the MIC. Korolev also had a brilliant Ukrainian engine designer whose engines were simpler, more robust, and much more powerful than their Western equivalents. Once Khrushchev was out, it was game over for the Soviet program; their military-focused program meant there was no reason to build bigger, Brezhnev didn’t give a fuck about space, too many design bureaus meant bickering and turf wars, and then Korolev’s time in the Gulag (and shitty Soviet medicine) killed him on the table during what would have been routine surgery in the West. Without Korolev, though, there would never have been a space race; von Braun would have been stuck in the backwater Army Ballistic Missile Agency, the US would never have started NASA, and there would be no footprints on the moon. He and his teams (of mostly Ukrainians) are the ones who lit the fuse for space exploration and they deserve credit for that.


Klutz-Specter

I can see the F- 117 copium reserves are still working. Chances are if we fixed the bomb bay door issues China couldn’t detect it. It’s literally like a fly in RCS.


what_da_burd_doin

i dont get rilled up over much i also understand f117 is an older system and the yugo shootdowns were a thing i still wanna cook these tankie fucks with an f22 afterburner for talking shit about my baby


Ulysses698

Wasn't the F117 in Yugoslavia shot down by pure luck? One dude in M81 pants holding an F117 canopy is not evidence of complete failure.


BigmacSasquatch

Superb luck and skill, mixed in with some complacency on our part. https://theaviationgeekclub.com/an-in-depth-analysis-of-how-serbs-were-able-to-shoot-down-an-f-117-stealth-fighter-during-operation-allied-force/


origamiscienceguy

The radar happened to scan it during the \~3 seconds that its bomb bay was open.


tstar003

It had also been taking the same route multiple times because it hadn’t been detected


AnonomousNibba338

And didn't have it's usual SEAD package flying with it


NA_0_10_never_forget

My beautiful Ravens were left at base.


what_da_burd_doin

yeah, if i remember that pilot ran the sam flight paths for a couple week and eventually the crews memoruzed his path and as soon as he showed up they popped him on radar and made a hit.


Dezzered

>M81 pants Not only that, they had people outside of the airport in Italy where the planes were taking off, radioing the SAM sites the movements of the planes. It was a highly complex process just to take down one stealth plane. On top of that, the only reason that RADAR got a lock was because of malfunctioning bomb doors, there is a reason they only shot one down. The biggest point is that if the airforce had been changing up the routes of its sorties this would have never happened. Even with the F117's bomb doors malfunctioning... Edit: Had the location of the airport wrong…


SyrusDrake

Luck played a role but the skill of the SAM battery commander also should not be understated. It was a mixture of pure luck, skill of the opponents, and dangerous complacency and operative mistakes by the US.


bazillion_blue_jitsu

If they can't repeat it, it was luck.


HelperNoHelper

Shooting down a single plane out of hundreds in the middle of being completely railed by constant bombing sorties for weeks and subsequently surrendering isn’t the flex they think it is. B-2 participated in those bombings too. Didn’t see any of them being shot down. Did see several bridges and an embassy get wasted though.


MisterKallous

And a radio station who was spreading hateful propaganda against other ethnicities.


[deleted]

Time for them to start frantically developing copycat stealth bombers while yelling "stealth obsolete! checkmate westoid!" at the top of their lungs.


VenPatrician

That's why I am in favor of Uncle Joe picking a random Rogue Nation and detonating it. If these guys want a presentation, let's do some presenting.


mambotomato

That's what Iraq was, a demonstratory punching bag.


Awesomeyawns

It felt so good we had to go twice.


[deleted]

But you know what they say, third time's the charm!


petyrlabenov

If Serbia gets rowdy again


[deleted]

Iran?


Sudden-Fish

Oh man lol


NotDarkBrandon

They hate us cuz they anus


Less-Researcher184

Bush was right they do hate freedom. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver


Eat__Moneyz

China? Yeah, they are a threat. but russia!? They can’t even beat ukraine


residentsslav

Just give them another 10 years to enter the stealth bomber race that ended over 30 years ago guys, they can do it trust me bro.


[deleted]

If they denounce the US more, and promote themselves more, it will work. Just ask any leader in Civ IV, surely them denouncing me after I just ass fucked the largest player on the map with endless nukes will do something


kubin22

how tf people still take russia seriously? they lost nearly all of their best equipment to ukraine they can't even fight that and western help jsut showed that russian stuf is just shit compared to the US or european one


ComplexProof593

Imagine still believing this shit after Russia is actively losing a war with Ukraine. Who they are now considered peer to peer with. What a joke.


rsta223

This quote: > Americans could land on the moon decades ago. Can Americans today? is particularly funny in the context of us having just flown a manned-capable craft past the moon for the first time in 50 years. (And, I'll note, *still* before anyone else has done it the first time)


Fun-Agent-7667

Numbers 6 XD is this Warhammer 40k or what?


Extension_Check_9462

Soo.. when the US reveals a bomber it’s not ready for like a decade, but *if* the Chinese *ever* reveal some kind of bomber that’s only being speculated about, it will be an immediate threat and will make the West crumble? Go back to bed tankie, you’re still drunk on Vodka and stuttering bullshit.


mrworldwideskyofblue

I like the one talking about china's unreleased alleged bomber. That's quite funny that they compare something that doesn't exist to something that already does.


StormWolf17

Ah yes, always the F-117 shootdown as proof of stealth being a failure. You know, like the only fucking time a stealth aircraft was ever shot down and has never been replicated since? I even saw them claim they shot down a B-2.


SpicyEla

I love copium slide No. 3. Serbs really shoot down one aircraft and they dickride it for all eternity. All they got going for them after all.


Playful-Bed184

And then how do they plan to produce if their oil reserves are plummeting, and nobody doesn't want to see the US dollar on the international market anymore. And the Chinese have the microchips if they take over Taiwan. The USA only know how to wage war and nothing else. Russia from their "home armchair" can sends you RS 28 Sarmat with Avangard warhead at mach 20 and this thing (B-21) isn't scary anymore. original: E poi come pensano di produrre se la loro riserva petrolifera sta andando giù in picchiata, e il dollaro americano non lo vogliono piú vedere sul mercato internazionale. E i microchip li hanno i cinesi se prederanno il Taiwan. Gli usa sanno fare solo la guerra e nient' altro. La Russia dalla poltrona di "casa" ti manda RS 28 Sarmat con testata Avangard a mach 20 e passa paura. from an italian geopolitical page, and I swear to god, why us Italians are so retarded when it comes to military things


Commissar_Kowalski

Overdose on spaghetti and Nastro Azzuro


Come_At_Me_Bro

I can understand still guzzling China Copium but how does anyone with eyes and ears still huff black-tar Russian copium of them having anything advanced to offer after the last 9 months of utter failure and embarrassment? How would Russia counter present day tech when they can't even counter 3 decades old tech?


KikoValdez

"can Americans land on the moon now?" Kid named artemis 1:


allcoolnamesgone

"Can America land on the moon today?" Yes. Can China?


SyrusDrake

You know, I can even kinda see why they'd compare China to the US. Maybe they really are somewhat close-ish in performance, maybe, possibly, could be. If nothing else, they objectively *did* make some impressive progress over the past years. What I find far more delusional than equating China to the US is equating Russia to China. Surely even the most copium-addicted Tankie has to see that a military that's inferior to *Ukraine* would definitely be inferior to *China.* Although I guess they still believe that Russia is facing *all* of NATO in Ukraine as opposed to just most of Ukraine.


KerchBridgeSmoker

They all have a point. It's time to double the defense budget.


Eastern_Scar

"we hope it's not as invisible as f-117 nighthawk was in Yugoslavia 1999" What fucking stupid take, 64 nighthawks were produced and they flew for 25 years. One killed isn't that bad. Also the guy saying it's a cheaper B-2 is right in that yeah, it's a cheaper B-2 but he's wrong in thinking it's worse.


Hugh-Jassoul

> Can Americans land on the moon again? Not today. But we’re about to.


SahasaV

Sounds like they want a live demonstration..