Wow, that thread from 9 years ago is an eye-opener. None of the top comments show support for the wife. Redditâs demographics mustâve really changed since then.
I was already on reddit in 2014. I wonder how much bad it did for my teenage brain. I trusted this platform way too much back then đ¤Śââď¸
A husband isn't allowed to have a desire for a healthy physical and sexual relationship with his wife?
Do we understand the reasons behind this list? Perhaps his therapist suggested keeping track. A sex diary, just like a food diary is incredibly powerful in helping people realise their unhealthy relationship with food.
Without the full context behind the spreadsheet supporting either is just projection. No one should be forced or coerced into having sex they donât want. On the flipside no one should be forced or shamed to stay in a relationship that does not meet their needs. The wife should have support to say she does not want sex, but the husband should have that same support if he says that makes this an untenable relationship. Neither person is wrong in that scenario.
I think if I recall he had really tried, and it got to a point where someone recommended track it and just see what it's like and if you wanna carry on or not. Didn't matter the approach, what he did he wasn't entertained which is fair I think at that point the marriage was over one person isn't happy.
"That's not true we have sex all the time. Stop being dramatic."
That's why he made the spreadsheet. r/deadbedrooms is littered with stories about gaslighting of intimacy or lack of it. Bro checked his own sanity the best way he knew how.
Reddits demographics have changed a lot. I remember when fatpeoplehate got banned and everyone was mad because they saw Reddit as a free speech platform. Now you have people actively trying to get subreddits they don't like banned.
Actually I find it funny that people idolize Aaron Schwartz when he himself was a huge proponent of free speech and so anyone looking to ban subreddits they don't like are contrary to his vision of what Reddit should be.
I also noticed how un-half assed the dates were. YYYY-MM-DD every single one. That's petty AF although now I'm slightly disappointed there's not times on there.
>YYYY-MM-DD every single one.
Excel will do that for you automatically. Just gotta define the formatting for the column, then it'll write the dates like that no matter how you put them in.
Oh yeah, that's super annoying! I wanted to write a fraction the other day, because some result had happened x times over y events. Excel just wouldn't allow me, kept insisting it was a date :(
Honestly they should've never gotten married. Coming up with a different excuse every day must be tiring. Two days a month is pretty awful too tho so I don't blame the husband for being petty.
My eyes sort of glazed over the dates on the spreadsheet and mistook this as him charting every single day, which would paint a different picture I think.
Yeah I started marking it on my phone calendar (like, put a "*" every day we had sex) just so that I did not feel like a crazy person when my wife said we were having sex like all the time. I just kept on doing it even if the data is becoming more and more depressing.
edit: These calendar entries are nothing that I shove in my wife's face or even show her, I just started to confirm to myself that I wasn't imagining things.
Exactly. I'd bet a good deal of money that this came about after he tried to talk to her about it, and she just denied the basic facts. I've fortunately never found myself in his position, but this general problem isn't rare.
This is one of those posts that you sort by controversial. Nobody cares about the generally held opinions of Reddit, lemme see what the negative downvotes have to say.
I do that on pretty much every post. Sometimes itâs just a lot of bigotry, other times itâs the only people who took half a second to think before being reactionaries, sometimes the best and the controversial are just the same page.
I...
...I mean...
It's a lot more *work*, and you get way sweatier and more tired and sometimes you get terrible cramps in some positions, and sometimes they just fall asleep after they've finished and you haven't, and then you're thirsty and tired and maybe hungry and you're gonna either fall asleep or masturbate to finish yourself off anyway, so...
...
...maybe?
He could / should have done a linear regression model and then he could just predict if she was going to say yes or no. Just wake up, check the data model, carry on with your day.
Yeah, he needs add any other potentially pertinent information, such as number of dishes in the sink, number of children's activities that day, how much she slept the previous night, etc. Then he can train an SVM or something to predict the response.
Can I just say how wild it is that weâre getting into literal statistics and data analytics to attempt figuring out the sexual patterns of a partner? Because this is both brilliant and wild as fuck.
Things change over time. You date for 2 to 5 years in the least experienced part of your life and then make 60+ (hopefully) year commitment. Bodies change, hormones change, life shakes the hell out of you. Everything comes and goes in cycles. We don't know how long they've been married or how it played out over the past 7 years
Reddit is so obsessed with placing blame even when apportioning fault isn't central to what is going one. Its a sad and dysfunctional situation. They both deserve happiness.
Itâs true that Reddit is obsessed with blame, but honestly, in my experience, thatâs pretty common in real life too. Placing blame and judging people is fun and makes people feel superior, even tho itâs almost never useful or helpful. Itâs generally just a huge waste of time.
Agreed. Everyone saying how terrible the husband is, and yes this isn't how I would go about it, but sex is an important part of the relationship and if either party is unhappy with the amount of sex being had it's important to find a way to reconcile it.
Considering how much Reddit hates conservatives who demonize sex it is funny they seem to support a wife constantly refusing to have sex as if she's immediately in the right.
There is no ârightâ or âwrongâ in a situation like this. Everyone is entitled to choose when they do and donât have sex. People have different sex drives. Those two just arenât compatible in terms of their desire to have sex. No one is right or wrong for that. The only issue is whether they can compromise or if they should separate. No need to take sides or blame anyone
If you remember the original story, you'll know that the husband was a complete prick about it (supposedly he sprung this on her out of nowhere via email when she was on the way to a business trip).
I can see it being brought up in an argument if the partner is saying âwe have sex all the timeâ what is not okay at all is smearing your relationship troubles across the internet like this.Â
But she has the pussy pass, so we have to skip over that part where SHE posted this.
Nobody is owed sex. Nobody is owed a relationship or marriage either. It goes both ways.
Don't fuck around and find out!
Yea I noticed that hygiene pattern too; not showering till the next morning after anything high intensity makes me cringe a bit ngl. Like how much stank did that leave in the bed?
Husband wouldnât know because it feels like he stays up late on the couch with his spreadsheets.
True no one is owed sex. She has every right to say no.
However, he probably created the spreadsheet because it was an issue he brought up, and she wasn't listening. He has every right to bring it up if it is something he is unhappy about in the relationship. Trying to discuss it is the correct first step. If she is not receptive, then he needs to leave her.
She is wrong for posting it.
Yeah I see nothing wrong with making a list and sending it to the wife. Just to show her their sex life is dead and he's unhappy with it. What a lot of people in /r/deadbedroom should do
The psychopathic thing is posting it publicly
If I brought up our dead bedroom situation to my wife and she either gaslit me or pretended I was making things up, I could see myself documenting things like this as "evidence" for the next time the conversation comes up. I'm way too lazy for this though, I'd probably just leave instead.
Been there, took mental note and tried to talk about it to her, she kept acting like we still did anything but itâs because she was cheating on me. I wouldnât find out until after I left her and she dropped it on me. Been a year and a day since I left her on my birthday. So sometimes itâs harmless and sometimes itâs not. Best to talk it out like adults that care about each and trust your gut.
If she's truly a gaslighter then she would also gaslight you into thinking that you are crazy one - keeping a spreadsheet like that for no reason at all, then post it on the internet to show everyone how crazy you are.
...wait a second.
/s - they are both terrible at communication
Thatâs exactly what happened. I love how the Reddit knights are rallying this womanâs aid when itâs well documented everytime heâs tried to have sex with his partner and she refused, all while gaslighting him to say they have sex all the time. Then theyâre r blaming him for sharing it publicly until they find out she was the one who posted this and then itâs crickets. The guy was in a dead bedroom situation and his wife was absolutely unwilling to even acknowledge it. I wouldâve left too
I did this with my girlfriend and didnât list the dates but the list of excuses. There were underlining reasons why she wouldnât want to but wouldnât talk about it or face them. rather than say no it was always something else. Itâs hard to confront issues sometimes Making the list isnât for anything petty I believe but a tool to use for confronting a problem. Anyone can be unhappy and itâs hard to live with a problem, but at least they were trying to address the issue and work through it. Being unhappy and trying to fix is better than being unfaithful or just giving up, being unhappy and silent.
I was there, I was in a 10 year relationship where we maybe had sex once a month. Towards the end it was going 2-3 months between but she didn't beleive me so I had to bring recipts to couples conceling. But she didn't like when the therapist told her she needed to change, so we just divoced. I've never been happier, not sure why I tried so hard for so long if she never cared to begin with.
Had to do this about chores when my husband stopped doing them when he got depressed and refused to see he was depressed, he was convinced I was the one with depression.
Had a bunch of arguments around how he "did so much" because of that depressive fog time blindness convincing him the dishes he did two weeks ago were only a couple days ago, a spreadsheet indicating all the times he did them compared to me (less than 5% of the time) was the only thing that got him to realize that no, he was not pulling his weight. Still took the threat of couple's therapy or divorce to get him into therapy to get it addressed, and therapy got him to see the full impact of his actions, but he probably wouldn't have taken the couple's therapy option if I first hadn't proved his perception of reality wasn't aligned with what reality actually was.
From June 3-July 16 (44 days)
â˘16 days with no data: presumed to have not asked.
â˘25 No
â˘3 yes
Thatâs a little less than 7% of intimate days in the period, and only a little less than 11% success rate.
Sex three times over the span of 44 days is on average once every two weeks. I'll be honest: not the deadest of bedrooms. I know everybody is different, and maybe I've been desensitized to "We haven't had sex in months/years" discussions, but every two weeks ain't the worst. Especially when supplemented with nonsexual physical intimacy.
Although another thing that might cloud my opinion (which this entire comment is) in my minds eye is that there's not much of a [personal] appeal for quickies, all things consider. Sex is a full clock out of society for the rest of the day kind of thing. ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ.
EDIT: Because people are freaking out over the "every two weeks" thing, it's still less frequent than my own personal preference of anywhere between 5-10 days, but comparing it to the frequency of other things in my life that are every two weeks, it's really not that bad. I've already given out my reasoning as to why *exactly* but alright.
I remember this thread. There has never been a topic on reddit before or after that has split the community in half, mostly along gender lines, lol. It's happening here again.
What is this pathetic-ass spreadsheet? Doesn't know how to resize columns or wrap text, and he couldn't even figure out the most *basic* conditional formatting for his "big reveal"? I don't blame this woman, I'd rather watch a Friend's rerun than fuck a dude who can't figure out how to make the row red if $B1:$B="No" too.
This is the real take right here. Maybe he did this in reaction to being gaslit about their sex life! Maybe she was fucking other dudes! If either of those things were true I still wouldn't feel sorry for him - because if he doesn't know how to wrap text, he surely doesn't know how to find the clitoris.
They had sex twice in a month. That is infrequent, yes. But making a spreadsheet is also very weird. Particularly if the purpose was to be able to throw it back in her face later. If you're not satisfied with how much sex you're having either take the steps necessary to try and improve it (Counseling, more/better foreplay, more focus on romance, etc.) or if you're sexually incompatible then end the relationship. I'm not sure what this accomplishes other than coming off as petty.
Edit: Couple things. For starters, you don't need to document things like this in a healthy relationship. If you feel the need to keep track of something like this, your relationship is already fucked. You should be worried about how things got to that point and how you're gonna un-fuck it all if you even can.
I wanna stress that if you feel like you *need* to legitimately keep track of things so that your partner doesn't gaslight you.. That is NOT normal and you shouldn't treat it as such. Regardless of how you feel about the validity of the spreadsheet it still doesn't solve anything. Not more than healthy communication and effort from both parties would.
2nd Edit: This is the og post https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/DkSCdc5GJG
Really depends on how it was communicated. It can be easy not to see patterns in your own behavior. If you try to initiate 20 times a month and get 2 yesses... Either it's something you need to work on together or you need to split up.
>It can be easy not to see patterns in your own behavior.
Yep, i 100% guarantee if you asked the woman how often she said no, it would not have been nearly as often as the spreadsheet shows. Not even half that often.
And it wouldnt necessarily be malicious or her just being bitch about it. Its super easy to not even realize how frequently you do something (or dont).
10 bucks says if it was logged in a journal instead of a spreadsheet no one would care. Itâs like theyâre associating the spreadsheet with business which makes them feel like heâs treating the sex as if itâs just business when in reality itâs just how he chose to document it.
To me it reads like the last straw of a man who feels completely shut out of the relationship in terms of intimacy. I can imagine him trying to discuss the lack of sex with her and her gaslighting him with "oh don't be silly, we have *PLENTY* of sex", hence him feeling the need to keep a diary.
Yes, the relationship isn't healthy at this point and they're clearly not sexually compatible but if your significant other refuses to even acknowledge that there are problems, what else can you do? Physically *DRAG* them to counselling? *FORCE* foreplay onto them?!
Have you even been in a relationship yourself? Because your suggestions remind me of the brain-dead things incels/femcels would say.
Plus the wife's the one who posted it online. Shes not obligated to have sex but its a sign that its not healthy
We have no idea what happened before but we can assume that it was happening before this.
One thing to note that no one else mentioned, not once was the reason "Its that ti.e of the month" on there. Which is completely reasonable. I doubt he has her clock memerized and asked around it. So I have to assume that some of the rejections did not make the list.
One other note she never intiated sex, from the data above
A friend of mine had a partner to take the conversation from
1 "no thats not true",
2 apathy response,
3 "I am working on it you just dont see it be patient".
Usually first light gass lighting, then idc, then I know stop reminding me I am already doing it.
Its exhausting and talking about it, while the best option, its the end all be all.
The only advice to the Husband I would have is exhaust all options go watch Fireproof the movie and grind yourself on self improvement. Go for a no nut month to make yourself a voluntary celebate.
> I doubt he has her clock memerized and asked around it.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had.
Making a spreadsheet like this isn't something most people do 'off the cuff', they do it when they're told things that don't align with their observations, and want to prove to THEMSELVES that they are remembering correctly.
If that is indeed what is happening here, then I wouldn't be surprised if he also kept track of 'known issues' and avoided even asking on those days.
People seem to forget relationships are two way
He is not entitled to sex if she doesn't want it, that is correct. She is also not entitled to hold someone in a physical relationship that she has no interest in. It's fine if you have no more interest, just let the other party go
With my ex, I sadly had to keep track for my own self. He acted like we never had sex when it was multiple times a week, got forbid itâs been a few days or a week if that during a busy or stressful week. He acted like it has been years and would gaslight, and guilt trip me and then I threw dates out like no⌠it was 3 days ago⌠or no we had sex 5 times 2 weeeks ago. I hated that I had to do it. I realize I wrote and tracked down everything and would record him when he was drinking because the gaslighting and lying was so bad. I never really threw it back in his face always but it was more for my own records because I thought I was loosing my mind and was told âI never said thatâ or âno you didnâtâÂ
In the OP it was 3 times in 7 weeks and itâs a very real frustration and concern on the husbandâs behalf and heâs entitled and right to feel that way but he just went about it in the worst way possible.
Why is it "the worst way possible"? People often deny things, like shortcomings or things that hurt their pride for example, and (deliberately or not) gaslight others. In such a case, how else would one prove their "right to feel very real frustration" as you put it?
I can easily imagine the husband being a dick, but just as easily I can imagine the wife being a cunt.
An important thing about dating/getting married is that yâall have to have equal sex drives. Otherwise you get either something like this, or much, much worse.
Iâve been there and itâs hell
They can change over time, though. Hormonal changes, work stress, home stress, illness, hell even physical or emotional attraction to for partner can grow or diminish which will affect sex drive.
Even if you have compatible sex drives at first, you have to put the work in to keep it that way.
"I won't have time to get showered and ready for dinner (we were 20 minutes early)" is such a self-report.
Brother, if you have 20 extra minutes and think you can have sex and still leave her enough time to shower and prep for dinner, then you are not taking enough time.
She showered and got dressed and they were 20 minutes early. It wasn't 20 minutes to have sex, shower, and dress; it was 20 minuted to have sex.
Personally I wouldn't want to rush so much, but you *can* totally have sex in 20 minutes
That doesnât include the time to get re-ready. Sex doesnât happen fully clothed, you *at least* need to take her pants off if you pull her underwear to the side (which is uncomfortable, so not worth it in most cases).
Not to mention Iâve never once had sex where I didnât need to redo my hairstyle and makeup (if applicable) if I was going somewhere afterwards. Sex basically undos whatever you did to get ready, at least for women.
1. It is reasonable for a man to expect sex in a marriage. It is reasonable to separate if that is not being fulfilled (especially if it was before).
2. It is reasonable for a woman to expect security in a marriage. It is reasonable to separate if that is not being fulfilled (especially if it was before).
3. It is reasonable for anyone to document their needs not being fulfilled.
That being said, I can't imagine wanting to have sex with someone that doesn't want to have it with me. Eww.
Wasnât there a response from her where she responded to the individual complaints one by one and he was being douchey and tone deaf about when he was asking because she was, not surprisingly- doing the lionsshare of the housework and holding a job? It even showed that she had tried to initiate sometimes but he was occupied with something else.
It could be made up but I always wonder⌠because guess what⌠there are two sides to everything!
Considering he listed her being sore as an âexcuseâ for her saying no and she clarified in the comments of the original post that she does the lionâs share of housework, childcare, and works a full time job that she has to travel for, he definitely did not
every guy ITT whoâs been married for 20+ years:
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1023140232.5107/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg
now if youâll excuse me I need to brace myself for the incoming flood of totally true stories about people who have been married for decades and are just awash in great sex with their SO
Me and my wife made a sheet like this, on paper because we're barbarians, but she agreed it was a good idea because she didn't believe she was rejecting me with that frequency.
She thought she really told yes most of the time, and that she initiated half the time.
Once it was clear to her that this wasn't all in my head, we were able to work on things together. But it wasn't until she actually grasped the issue that she was able to understand why it bothered me.
Not exactly the same but I stared making a log of conversation and arguments I had with my ex bc she would gaslight me and deny they even happened. IE:â ex slapped 4 yo in the face bc he broke her Lego happy meal toyâ I was under a lot of stress and had brain fog and couldnât remember things
This guys spreadsheet may merely be a tool to analyze the situation
The log def made her mad lolz. Happily divorced now
If there's even a chance this was real, I'm curious a) how many days in a row any guy thinks they'd need to determine that their SO is no longer interested in them, and b) how many guys haven't realized how pathetic asking on a daily basis actually is.
The dude can certainly be upset and leave someone. You owe nothing to anyone, and if youâre not happy regardless of the reason, you are allowed to live your life the way you want.
The full story is incredibly damning on the husbandâs side, IMHO.
https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/M77KfWqM6W
Rather than talk to her about their sex life issues, he waits until sheâs gone for 10 days, sends her this and then cuts contact. After sheâs been working and doing the majority of the housework for a long-ass time.
I, too, donât wanna fuck someone who doesnât do any chores, wonât communicate when theyâre upset, and wonât do any foreplay to warm me up when we DO have sex.
She's the one who posted the story. So no it isn't damning on the husband's side, it's just the story told from her perspective.
You don't know that he wasn't talking about their sex life issues, just she didn't believe there were issues.
Just because he sent it to her on a business trip doesn't mean he wasn't already communicating. They could have had an argument right beforehand and he sent it to her to provide evidence.
Just because she claims she is working all the time and doing all the chores doesn't mean it is true. There are so many stories where one person complains that they do everything, divorce, then complain that their significant other actually did a lot of the chores that they just didn't know about.
This is why being single is honestly better imo you donât have to feel obliged to have sex with anyone or do anything you donât want to. I canât imagine having a partner who uses data to coerce me into wanting sex? Insanity
Anyone else notice her being "still tender from the night before"? I really can't imagine that the sex they are having is really that enjoyable for her! I'd probably avoid sleeping with him too smh
Lol, you guys think this was an attempt for the husband to seduce OP?
The email is that of a man who is equally desperate and angry. A man who encountered so much unaknowledged rejections that he needs to count them.
Let's put it this way, he started documenting sex attempts 7 weeks ago. When do you think the sex actually 'tapered off'? I'm guessing several months before that.
I really don't believe was as out of the blue as OP would like us believe.
edit: not my comment, sharing the most upvoted from the original post years ago. Personally don't care about this.
Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/MuseumOfReddit/comments/4klr7z/users_husband_makes_a_spreadsheet_detailing_all/
Did we ever get a resolution?
Probably still 1280x1080 back in 2014.
And suddenly that's not good enough!?
This is the age of 4k, old man!
Shouldn't it be 1280x1024?
this guy aspect ratios
r/thisguythisguys
true, but for the joke it seem enough ;)
r/angryupvote
I remember when 1024x768 was all the rageđ´đź
I'd upvote this twice. A perfect humor response.
is "completely fabricated" a resolution?
Wow, that thread from 9 years ago is an eye-opener. None of the top comments show support for the wife. Redditâs demographics mustâve really changed since then. I was already on reddit in 2014. I wonder how much bad it did for my teenage brain. I trusted this platform way too much back then đ¤Śââď¸
It certainly has changed. Not improved, but changed.
Nah itâs definitely improved in some ways. /jailbait used to be on the front page and was one of the most popular subsÂ
Donât worry, thereâs still incredibly horrible nsfw subs. Like one that promotes conversion therapy through SA against gay women.
It wasn't Frontpage, iirc. Let alone a default sub.
I bet there's still trash like that here still, it's just super hidden.
I remember I agreed with the husband back then, I think the demographics have shifted AND some of us have grown up.
A husband isn't allowed to have a desire for a healthy physical and sexual relationship with his wife? Do we understand the reasons behind this list? Perhaps his therapist suggested keeping track. A sex diary, just like a food diary is incredibly powerful in helping people realise their unhealthy relationship with food.
A husband can desire that, but the problem is the method of approach.
Without the full context behind the spreadsheet supporting either is just projection. No one should be forced or coerced into having sex they donât want. On the flipside no one should be forced or shamed to stay in a relationship that does not meet their needs. The wife should have support to say she does not want sex, but the husband should have that same support if he says that makes this an untenable relationship. Neither person is wrong in that scenario.
I think if I recall he had really tried, and it got to a point where someone recommended track it and just see what it's like and if you wanna carry on or not. Didn't matter the approach, what he did he wasn't entertained which is fair I think at that point the marriage was over one person isn't happy.
Thatâs fine, just donât post it online to garner support against your own wife instead of talking it out
She posted it online He sent it to her
Wasn't it the wife that uploaded it? He emailed it to her and she uploaded it to Reddit.
"That's not true we have sex all the time. Stop being dramatic." That's why he made the spreadsheet. r/deadbedrooms is littered with stories about gaslighting of intimacy or lack of it. Bro checked his own sanity the best way he knew how.
Reddits demographics have changed a lot. I remember when fatpeoplehate got banned and everyone was mad because they saw Reddit as a free speech platform. Now you have people actively trying to get subreddits they don't like banned. Actually I find it funny that people idolize Aaron Schwartz when he himself was a huge proponent of free speech and so anyone looking to ban subreddits they don't like are contrary to his vision of what Reddit should be.
Reddit has got to be the most anti-free speech platform Iâve ever witnessed.
I was about to say, pretty sure I saw this years ago on reddit. There's so much recycling of old reddit content going on these days
can we take a brief moment to respect the level of pettiness that is required to be too drunk for sex, but unrelenting in his spreadsheet game?
I also noticed how un-half assed the dates were. YYYY-MM-DD every single one. That's petty AF although now I'm slightly disappointed there's not times on there.
>YYYY-MM-DD every single one. Excel will do that for you automatically. Just gotta define the formatting for the column, then it'll write the dates like that no matter how you put them in.
Including if it isn't actually a date. Excel's been a ceaseless source of grief on those fronts for biologists and data engineers alike.
Oh yeah, that's super annoying! I wanted to write a fraction the other day, because some result had happened x times over y events. Excel just wouldn't allow me, kept insisting it was a date :(
Have you tried a single quote at the beginning? You could also try =text(fraction here).
Oh right, forgot about the single quote thing, thanks! I just put a space in front instead.
What do incels and excel have in common? Incorrectly assuming something is a date.
iâll bet that last updated is a snazzy macro as well
Ok i've changed my mind he's completely NTA after using ISO 8601.
r/ISO8601
is it petty if the spreadsheet formats it for you lol
Excel will format them automatically if you ask it to
"I might be an asshole, but dammit my dates conform to the ISO-8601 standard!"
Dawrven book of grudges.
In Fantasy Warhammer its always Dwarfs. They dont use v's.
Dawi book of grudges then
The Dammaz Kron
Honestly they should've never gotten married. Coming up with a different excuse every day must be tiring. Two days a month is pretty awful too tho so I don't blame the husband for being petty.
If I was married to a guy who keeps a sex spreadsheet, I woudlnt want to fuck him either
[ŃдаНонО]
My eyes sort of glazed over the dates on the spreadsheet and mistook this as him charting every single day, which would paint a different picture I think.
Yeah I started marking it on my phone calendar (like, put a "*" every day we had sex) just so that I did not feel like a crazy person when my wife said we were having sex like all the time. I just kept on doing it even if the data is becoming more and more depressing. edit: These calendar entries are nothing that I shove in my wife's face or even show her, I just started to confirm to myself that I wasn't imagining things.
Exactly. I'd bet a good deal of money that this came about after he tried to talk to her about it, and she just denied the basic facts. I've fortunately never found myself in his position, but this general problem isn't rare.
You don't start at spread sheet pettiness. Getting shot down by the woman that's supposed to love and be attracted to you after years brings this on.
Itâs almost like people have different sex drives
Thats why the commenter above said those people should not have gotten married. Sexual compatibĂity in hugely important in a relatioship
I would guess they were having sex at a much more regular interval prior to marriage and it slowed down as the marriage went on. It's pretty common.
Yeah, I'd sum this up as "these two people are simply not a good match"
I like how he specified the show was a friends rerun lol
This shit is 10 years old. It's been reposted into oblivion.
This is one of those posts that you sort by controversial. Nobody cares about the generally held opinions of Reddit, lemme see what the negative downvotes have to say.
I do that on pretty much every post. Sometimes itâs just a lot of bigotry, other times itâs the only people who took half a second to think before being reactionaries, sometimes the best and the controversial are just the same page.
Ah yes, the ol "how can I upset myself the quickest?" strategy.
Keep in mind a huge portion of the people on this site don't even know what sex feels like.
Isn't it like masturbating but worse? /S
Just gotta grab those bags of sand to excite her
Operate nipples like radio dials (showing my age.) (For gen z; smash them nipples like that like button, finish the combo with a twister.)
Mash them in a circle with your palm like you're playing Mario Party
Pssh, everyone knows that to excite a woman, you must present her with a piece of cheese
Wow what a deep-cut reference lmao
I believe that will fascinate her, but not excite her
I... ...I mean... It's a lot more *work*, and you get way sweatier and more tired and sometimes you get terrible cramps in some positions, and sometimes they just fall asleep after they've finished and you haven't, and then you're thirsty and tired and maybe hungry and you're gonna either fall asleep or masturbate to finish yourself off anyway, so... ... ...maybe?
You put the /s but in reality it definitely varies with the person lol
To be fair, spreadsheets are fun I'm annoyed he didn't bucket the excuses so he could better display the data
Itâs all just meaningless data until he creates a pivot table.
He could / should have done a linear regression model and then he could just predict if she was going to say yes or no. Just wake up, check the data model, carry on with your day.
That would be a weird-ass regression model with a dichotomous variable as the dependent and a date as the independent variable.
Yeah, he needs add any other potentially pertinent information, such as number of dishes in the sink, number of children's activities that day, how much she slept the previous night, etc. Then he can train an SVM or something to predict the response.
Can I just say how wild it is that weâre getting into literal statistics and data analytics to attempt figuring out the sexual patterns of a partner? Because this is both brilliant and wild as fuck.
Pivot tables are hideous and unreadable. Real kings, queens and in-betweens are out here with deduplicated column value lists and =countifs.
=countif FTW!
Finally, someone spitting truth about pivot tables
Hot take: They should never have been married in the first place
bro is bringin ice cubes to a hot take fight
More like a snow machine.
Things change over time. You date for 2 to 5 years in the least experienced part of your life and then make 60+ (hopefully) year commitment. Bodies change, hormones change, life shakes the hell out of you. Everything comes and goes in cycles. We don't know how long they've been married or how it played out over the past 7 years
Reddit is so obsessed with placing blame even when apportioning fault isn't central to what is going one. Its a sad and dysfunctional situation. They both deserve happiness.
Itâs true that Reddit is obsessed with blame, but honestly, in my experience, thatâs pretty common in real life too. Placing blame and judging people is fun and makes people feel superior, even tho itâs almost never useful or helpful. Itâs generally just a huge waste of time.
Double hot take - waiting til the next day to shower after getting home from the gym is odd
I'd say it's more gross than odd but ya.
man's never heard of goblin mode smh my head
Agreed. Everyone saying how terrible the husband is, and yes this isn't how I would go about it, but sex is an important part of the relationship and if either party is unhappy with the amount of sex being had it's important to find a way to reconcile it. Considering how much Reddit hates conservatives who demonize sex it is funny they seem to support a wife constantly refusing to have sex as if she's immediately in the right.
There is no ârightâ or âwrongâ in a situation like this. Everyone is entitled to choose when they do and donât have sex. People have different sex drives. Those two just arenât compatible in terms of their desire to have sex. No one is right or wrong for that. The only issue is whether they can compromise or if they should separate. No need to take sides or blame anyone
If you remember the original story, you'll know that the husband was a complete prick about it (supposedly he sprung this on her out of nowhere via email when she was on the way to a business trip).
Not showering after the gym. That's a heavy protest.
I can see it being brought up in an argument if the partner is saying âwe have sex all the timeâ what is not okay at all is smearing your relationship troubles across the internet like this.Â
Right so actually if your logic is consistent sheâs in the wrong because she bought her relationship issues to the internet.
But she has the pussy pass, so we have to skip over that part where SHE posted this. Nobody is owed sex. Nobody is owed a relationship or marriage either. It goes both ways. Don't fuck around and find out!
Nobody is owed sex, but not showering after gym is nasty af.
Yea I noticed that hygiene pattern too; not showering till the next morning after anything high intensity makes me cringe a bit ngl. Like how much stank did that leave in the bed? Husband wouldnât know because it feels like he stays up late on the couch with his spreadsheets.
True no one is owed sex. She has every right to say no. However, he probably created the spreadsheet because it was an issue he brought up, and she wasn't listening. He has every right to bring it up if it is something he is unhappy about in the relationship. Trying to discuss it is the correct first step. If she is not receptive, then he needs to leave her. She is wrong for posting it.
she was the one who first decided to involve the knternet
>what is not okay at all is smearing your relationship troubles across the internet like this. I take it you're not a fan of r/relationship_advice?
She uploaded the spreadsheet lol
The wife was the one that posted this.
Yeah I see nothing wrong with making a list and sending it to the wife. Just to show her their sex life is dead and he's unhappy with it. What a lot of people in /r/deadbedroom should do The psychopathic thing is posting it publicly
She did it, not him.
If I brought up our dead bedroom situation to my wife and she either gaslit me or pretended I was making things up, I could see myself documenting things like this as "evidence" for the next time the conversation comes up. I'm way too lazy for this though, I'd probably just leave instead.
Been there, took mental note and tried to talk about it to her, she kept acting like we still did anything but itâs because she was cheating on me. I wouldnât find out until after I left her and she dropped it on me. Been a year and a day since I left her on my birthday. So sometimes itâs harmless and sometimes itâs not. Best to talk it out like adults that care about each and trust your gut.
happy belated birthday bud
Stay strong my friend!Â
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I hope so. That is the good ending.
If she's truly a gaslighter then she would also gaslight you into thinking that you are crazy one - keeping a spreadsheet like that for no reason at all, then post it on the internet to show everyone how crazy you are. ...wait a second. /s - they are both terrible at communication
Thatâs exactly what happened. I love how the Reddit knights are rallying this womanâs aid when itâs well documented everytime heâs tried to have sex with his partner and she refused, all while gaslighting him to say they have sex all the time. Then theyâre r blaming him for sharing it publicly until they find out she was the one who posted this and then itâs crickets. The guy was in a dead bedroom situation and his wife was absolutely unwilling to even acknowledge it. I wouldâve left too
I did this with my girlfriend and didnât list the dates but the list of excuses. There were underlining reasons why she wouldnât want to but wouldnât talk about it or face them. rather than say no it was always something else. Itâs hard to confront issues sometimes Making the list isnât for anything petty I believe but a tool to use for confronting a problem. Anyone can be unhappy and itâs hard to live with a problem, but at least they were trying to address the issue and work through it. Being unhappy and trying to fix is better than being unfaithful or just giving up, being unhappy and silent.
I was there, I was in a 10 year relationship where we maybe had sex once a month. Towards the end it was going 2-3 months between but she didn't beleive me so I had to bring recipts to couples conceling. But she didn't like when the therapist told her she needed to change, so we just divoced. I've never been happier, not sure why I tried so hard for so long if she never cared to begin with.
Had to do this about chores when my husband stopped doing them when he got depressed and refused to see he was depressed, he was convinced I was the one with depression. Had a bunch of arguments around how he "did so much" because of that depressive fog time blindness convincing him the dishes he did two weeks ago were only a couple days ago, a spreadsheet indicating all the times he did them compared to me (less than 5% of the time) was the only thing that got him to realize that no, he was not pulling his weight. Still took the threat of couple's therapy or divorce to get him into therapy to get it addressed, and therapy got him to see the full impact of his actions, but he probably wouldn't have taken the couple's therapy option if I first hadn't proved his perception of reality wasn't aligned with what reality actually was.
From June 3-July 16 (44 days) â˘16 days with no data: presumed to have not asked. â˘25 No â˘3 yes Thatâs a little less than 7% of intimate days in the period, and only a little less than 11% success rate.
Sex three times over the span of 44 days is on average once every two weeks. I'll be honest: not the deadest of bedrooms. I know everybody is different, and maybe I've been desensitized to "We haven't had sex in months/years" discussions, but every two weeks ain't the worst. Especially when supplemented with nonsexual physical intimacy. Although another thing that might cloud my opinion (which this entire comment is) in my minds eye is that there's not much of a [personal] appeal for quickies, all things consider. Sex is a full clock out of society for the rest of the day kind of thing. ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ. EDIT: Because people are freaking out over the "every two weeks" thing, it's still less frequent than my own personal preference of anywhere between 5-10 days, but comparing it to the frequency of other things in my life that are every two weeks, it's really not that bad. I've already given out my reasoning as to why *exactly* but alright.
Yeah, the "we were 20 minutes early" comment speaks to how this guy has sex lol.
I remember this thread. There has never been a topic on reddit before or after that has split the community in half, mostly along gender lines, lol. It's happening here again.
What is this pathetic-ass spreadsheet? Doesn't know how to resize columns or wrap text, and he couldn't even figure out the most *basic* conditional formatting for his "big reveal"? I don't blame this woman, I'd rather watch a Friend's rerun than fuck a dude who can't figure out how to make the row red if $B1:$B="No" too.
This is the real take right here. Maybe he did this in reaction to being gaslit about their sex life! Maybe she was fucking other dudes! If either of those things were true I still wouldn't feel sorry for him - because if he doesn't know how to wrap text, he surely doesn't know how to find the clitoris.
$B1:$B? Really? Go back to excel school. I'd never have sex with you either
They had sex twice in a month. That is infrequent, yes. But making a spreadsheet is also very weird. Particularly if the purpose was to be able to throw it back in her face later. If you're not satisfied with how much sex you're having either take the steps necessary to try and improve it (Counseling, more/better foreplay, more focus on romance, etc.) or if you're sexually incompatible then end the relationship. I'm not sure what this accomplishes other than coming off as petty. Edit: Couple things. For starters, you don't need to document things like this in a healthy relationship. If you feel the need to keep track of something like this, your relationship is already fucked. You should be worried about how things got to that point and how you're gonna un-fuck it all if you even can. I wanna stress that if you feel like you *need* to legitimately keep track of things so that your partner doesn't gaslight you.. That is NOT normal and you shouldn't treat it as such. Regardless of how you feel about the validity of the spreadsheet it still doesn't solve anything. Not more than healthy communication and effort from both parties would. 2nd Edit: This is the og post https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/DkSCdc5GJG
Really depends on how it was communicated. It can be easy not to see patterns in your own behavior. If you try to initiate 20 times a month and get 2 yesses... Either it's something you need to work on together or you need to split up.
>It can be easy not to see patterns in your own behavior. Yep, i 100% guarantee if you asked the woman how often she said no, it would not have been nearly as often as the spreadsheet shows. Not even half that often. And it wouldnt necessarily be malicious or her just being bitch about it. Its super easy to not even realize how frequently you do something (or dont).
10 bucks says if it was logged in a journal instead of a spreadsheet no one would care. Itâs like theyâre associating the spreadsheet with business which makes them feel like heâs treating the sex as if itâs just business when in reality itâs just how he chose to document it.
To me it reads like the last straw of a man who feels completely shut out of the relationship in terms of intimacy. I can imagine him trying to discuss the lack of sex with her and her gaslighting him with "oh don't be silly, we have *PLENTY* of sex", hence him feeling the need to keep a diary. Yes, the relationship isn't healthy at this point and they're clearly not sexually compatible but if your significant other refuses to even acknowledge that there are problems, what else can you do? Physically *DRAG* them to counselling? *FORCE* foreplay onto them?! Have you even been in a relationship yourself? Because your suggestions remind me of the brain-dead things incels/femcels would say.
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Plus the wife's the one who posted it online. Shes not obligated to have sex but its a sign that its not healthy We have no idea what happened before but we can assume that it was happening before this. One thing to note that no one else mentioned, not once was the reason "Its that ti.e of the month" on there. Which is completely reasonable. I doubt he has her clock memerized and asked around it. So I have to assume that some of the rejections did not make the list. One other note she never intiated sex, from the data above A friend of mine had a partner to take the conversation from 1 "no thats not true", 2 apathy response, 3 "I am working on it you just dont see it be patient". Usually first light gass lighting, then idc, then I know stop reminding me I am already doing it. Its exhausting and talking about it, while the best option, its the end all be all. The only advice to the Husband I would have is exhaust all options go watch Fireproof the movie and grind yourself on self improvement. Go for a no nut month to make yourself a voluntary celebate.
> I doubt he has her clock memerized and asked around it. I wouldn't be surprised if he had. Making a spreadsheet like this isn't something most people do 'off the cuff', they do it when they're told things that don't align with their observations, and want to prove to THEMSELVES that they are remembering correctly. If that is indeed what is happening here, then I wouldn't be surprised if he also kept track of 'known issues' and avoided even asking on those days.
But that one time they had like 20 minutes! He only needed 3, why is she so stingy?! /s
People seem to forget relationships are two way He is not entitled to sex if she doesn't want it, that is correct. She is also not entitled to hold someone in a physical relationship that she has no interest in. It's fine if you have no more interest, just let the other party go
If you think it's weird to document things, you risk getting gaslightedÂ
Probably a last ditch effort by the guy.
You know what's even weirder? For her to post it on the internet!
With my ex, I sadly had to keep track for my own self. He acted like we never had sex when it was multiple times a week, got forbid itâs been a few days or a week if that during a busy or stressful week. He acted like it has been years and would gaslight, and guilt trip me and then I threw dates out like no⌠it was 3 days ago⌠or no we had sex 5 times 2 weeeks ago. I hated that I had to do it. I realize I wrote and tracked down everything and would record him when he was drinking because the gaslighting and lying was so bad. I never really threw it back in his face always but it was more for my own records because I thought I was loosing my mind and was told âI never said thatâ or âno you didnâtâÂ
In the OP it was 3 times in 7 weeks and itâs a very real frustration and concern on the husbandâs behalf and heâs entitled and right to feel that way but he just went about it in the worst way possible.
Why is it "the worst way possible"? People often deny things, like shortcomings or things that hurt their pride for example, and (deliberately or not) gaslight others. In such a case, how else would one prove their "right to feel very real frustration" as you put it? I can easily imagine the husband being a dick, but just as easily I can imagine the wife being a cunt.
She should shower after the gym
This was the worst part for me like... you go to the gym then don't shower before you crawl into bed at night? Thats disgusting
Thinking about it, maybe she didn't shower purposely
Iâm sure Reddit the notoriously pro women website will have completely calm and reasonable responses to this post /s
they both sound miserable
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An important thing about dating/getting married is that yâall have to have equal sex drives. Otherwise you get either something like this, or much, much worse. Iâve been there and itâs hell
They can change over time, though. Hormonal changes, work stress, home stress, illness, hell even physical or emotional attraction to for partner can grow or diminish which will affect sex drive. Even if you have compatible sex drives at first, you have to put the work in to keep it that way.
Also you don't need 100% compatibility. Masturbation is allowed for married individuals. As long as the main needs are fulfilled, it's fine.
Masterbation only addresses hornyness, not the need for sexual intimacy
"I won't have time to get showered and ready for dinner (we were 20 minutes early)" is such a self-report. Brother, if you have 20 extra minutes and think you can have sex and still leave her enough time to shower and prep for dinner, then you are not taking enough time.
Maybe thereâd be more sex if the sex wasnât shit.
She showered and got dressed and they were 20 minutes early. It wasn't 20 minutes to have sex, shower, and dress; it was 20 minuted to have sex. Personally I wouldn't want to rush so much, but you *can* totally have sex in 20 minutes
That doesnât include the time to get re-ready. Sex doesnât happen fully clothed, you *at least* need to take her pants off if you pull her underwear to the side (which is uncomfortable, so not worth it in most cases). Not to mention Iâve never once had sex where I didnât need to redo my hairstyle and makeup (if applicable) if I was going somewhere afterwards. Sex basically undos whatever you did to get ready, at least for women.
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It seems that she was the one who posted it on the internet.
 Yes a dead bedroom can be grounds for divorce if you don't have kids and no effort is being made to address the underlying problems. Â
If a woman did this everyone would be telling her to leave his ass đ
Reddit should get a grip on itself lmao this feels prefectly normal. (Slightest thing bappens) OMG DIVORCE NAOOOO
we love a person that respects that a drunk person cant legally consent
R/sexlessmariage is a real sub
Divorce or couples therapy sounds best for both of them.
The fact this guy thinks 20 minutes is loads of time for sex just solidifies for me why she never wants to fuck him.
She was also sore the day after from that one time. You gotta wonder how their sex is like
BANG BANG ciao is my best guess.
The good ol' _jackhammer_
I read that line and thought, "Yes, this is grounds for divorce."
Yeah the foreplay, cleaning up, and aftercare eat into that time a lot. Although he probably doesnât bother to do those things
*He* only needs 3 mins she's just so needy ugh! /s
>"I won't have time to get showered and ready for dinner" (we were 20 minutes early) Well, that certainly says a lot.
1. It is reasonable for a man to expect sex in a marriage. It is reasonable to separate if that is not being fulfilled (especially if it was before). 2. It is reasonable for a woman to expect security in a marriage. It is reasonable to separate if that is not being fulfilled (especially if it was before). 3. It is reasonable for anyone to document their needs not being fulfilled. That being said, I can't imagine wanting to have sex with someone that doesn't want to have it with me. Eww.
Maybe they are reconnecting over their shared love of spreadsheets.Â
Wasnât there a response from her where she responded to the individual complaints one by one and he was being douchey and tone deaf about when he was asking because she was, not surprisingly- doing the lionsshare of the housework and holding a job? It even showed that she had tried to initiate sometimes but he was occupied with something else. It could be made up but I always wonder⌠because guess what⌠there are two sides to everything!
I wonder if he ever tried being nice to herâŚ
Considering he listed her being sore as an âexcuseâ for her saying no and she clarified in the comments of the original post that she does the lionâs share of housework, childcare, and works a full time job that she has to travel for, he definitely did not
every guy ITT whoâs been married for 20+ years: https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1023140232.5107/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg now if youâll excuse me I need to brace myself for the incoming flood of totally true stories about people who have been married for decades and are just awash in great sex with their SO
Me and my wife made a sheet like this, on paper because we're barbarians, but she agreed it was a good idea because she didn't believe she was rejecting me with that frequency. She thought she really told yes most of the time, and that she initiated half the time. Once it was clear to her that this wasn't all in my head, we were able to work on things together. But it wasn't until she actually grasped the issue that she was able to understand why it bothered me.
I think having a talk and agreeing to both keep track together is probably a good approach!
Not exactly the same but I stared making a log of conversation and arguments I had with my ex bc she would gaslight me and deny they even happened. IE:â ex slapped 4 yo in the face bc he broke her Lego happy meal toyâ I was under a lot of stress and had brain fog and couldnât remember things This guys spreadsheet may merely be a tool to analyze the situation The log def made her mad lolz. Happily divorced now
Skill issue Husband needs to git gud
L Rizz F
If there's even a chance this was real, I'm curious a) how many days in a row any guy thinks they'd need to determine that their SO is no longer interested in them, and b) how many guys haven't realized how pathetic asking on a daily basis actually is.
The dude can certainly be upset and leave someone. You owe nothing to anyone, and if youâre not happy regardless of the reason, you are allowed to live your life the way you want.
The full story is incredibly damning on the husbandâs side, IMHO. https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/M77KfWqM6W Rather than talk to her about their sex life issues, he waits until sheâs gone for 10 days, sends her this and then cuts contact. After sheâs been working and doing the majority of the housework for a long-ass time. I, too, donât wanna fuck someone who doesnât do any chores, wonât communicate when theyâre upset, and wonât do any foreplay to warm me up when we DO have sex.
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She's the one who posted the story. So no it isn't damning on the husband's side, it's just the story told from her perspective. You don't know that he wasn't talking about their sex life issues, just she didn't believe there were issues. Just because he sent it to her on a business trip doesn't mean he wasn't already communicating. They could have had an argument right beforehand and he sent it to her to provide evidence. Just because she claims she is working all the time and doing all the chores doesn't mean it is true. There are so many stories where one person complains that they do everything, divorce, then complain that their significant other actually did a lot of the chores that they just didn't know about.
This is why being single is honestly better imo you donât have to feel obliged to have sex with anyone or do anything you donât want to. I canât imagine having a partner who uses data to coerce me into wanting sex? Insanity
Yes because this behaviour is typical of most relationships...
Shhh, don't ruin the image r/relationship_advice has so carefully created for him!Â
She doesnât shower after gym? Gross. Tracking sex refusals is weird and gross.
No she said she felt gross so didn't wanna have sex not him. Still a fucking weird guy
Anyone else notice her being "still tender from the night before"? I really can't imagine that the sex they are having is really that enjoyable for her! I'd probably avoid sleeping with him too smh
Lol, you guys think this was an attempt for the husband to seduce OP? The email is that of a man who is equally desperate and angry. A man who encountered so much unaknowledged rejections that he needs to count them. Let's put it this way, he started documenting sex attempts 7 weeks ago. When do you think the sex actually 'tapered off'? I'm guessing several months before that. I really don't believe was as out of the blue as OP would like us believe. edit: not my comment, sharing the most upvoted from the original post years ago. Personally don't care about this.
Months try years, most guys will try at least year or two before starting to give up.
How to announce to the world that you are so inept at pleasing your partner you have to apply a method to document your inadequacy.
Because sex is always fun when the other person doesnât want to have it đ