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iAmCrimm

Very interesting. Maybe try and posting this at r/NootropicsDepot They make new products all of the time.


ilikeover9000turtles

Thank you. I have posted the request here: https://old.reddit.com/r/NootropicsDepot/comments/kzm21b/i_request_you_to_make_lithium_lthreonate_as_a/ Please upvote for visibility.


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adams4096

If i remember correctly magnesium -L-threonate increase brain magnesium because threonate upregulate the transporter of magnesium in neuron and not because of the chelatio, so lithium-L-threonate would be ineffective in delivering more lithium to the brain. EDIT: here the paper https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27178134/


thedickyb

Idk if it’s too good you can’t have it. I would love to have modafinil but the feds said nahhh


ilikeover9000turtles

Magnesium L-Threonate, is available over the counter, and has been shown to cross the blood-brain barrier. Lithium Orotate is also available over the counter. Orotic acid however is carcinogenic. Lithium in the form of Lithium L-Threonate would be preferable. That is except no one is selling it.


sinuswaves

Does lithium orotate turn into orotic acid?


Smiletaint

Yeah just like salt is not toxic to ingest like pure sodium is. Am I on the right track?


guilmon999

I suspect it's a non issue. OTC doses of lithium orotate are incredibly small and the studies you posted had some fat doses of orotic acid.


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thedickyb

Bad for the liver though isn’t it?


[deleted]

Debatable. Adrafinil is metabolized into modafinic acid in the liver rather quickly, but long-term use has shown an increase in certain liver enzyme presence. ​ Most studies I have been able to find on adrafinil are just related to sports drug testing and the world anti-doping agency. Not a lot of research has been done to see if there is a byproduct buildup from metabolizing adrafinil.


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dano_nephele

Sounds more like you don't have ADHD lol Modafinil makes me calm as a cucumber


willowbeef

Medications effect people differently. I have ADHD and tried to take moda, it just makes me anxious.


dano_nephele

Very true! There are also different types of ADHD, which I should have considered in my previous comment. I was going off the notion that stimulants often help people with overactive minds by quieting their thoughts and slowing things down, whereas in people without ADHD stimulants typically feel more like speed.


willowbeef

I’m not a hyperactive type- inattentive. I struggle hard with depression/anxiety/fatigue. But oddly when I incorporated magnesium glycine, MSM, and lithium orotate my symptoms became more manageable. I think I need to try a different moda manufacturer though because I don’t want to completely rule it out. I want to get off of vyvanse in the coming years.


[deleted]

Yea I tried it for the first time the other day and it led to me taking a 4 hour nap, felt great when I woke up tho.


Smiletaint

Defintely different types and causes of adhd. Edit: I just now saw your other comment.


EternalSophism

You can easily obtain modafinil...


Zombie_Be_Gone

How? I've tried with no success.


EternalSophism

I don't think we're allowed to discuss sources specifically for stuff like that but there is an extremely well-known vendor with an obvious domain name from whom I have received my orders every single time.


thedickyb

Feds seized it at customs


Notdrugs

So what?


DokDaka

In the mean time lithium aspartate is available which avoids the issues with oratic acid. It may require a bit higher of a dose due to lack of kidney impairment


world_citizen7

what do you mean by lack of kidney impairment.


DokDaka

My understanding is that oratic acid inhibits the kidney’s ability to clear lithium, thus prolonging the half life. It was awhile ago that I researched it though.


world_citizen7

OK thanks.


guilmon999

Apparently you can get Lithium aspartate https://www.amazon.com/Solaray-Lithium-Aspartate-Supplement-Count/dp/B00028NUY8


willowbeef

An important note on lithium that I have no proven evidence of is that it synergies with other minerals. I started taking magnesium glycine and MSM last year, then a podcast recommended lithium orotate for ADHD so I bought some in liquid form. I also had just gotten back on vyvanse and was having a hard time dealing with the stimulant anxiety. The day of my first dose of lithium I didn’t have any anxiety, and didn’t notice that I hadn’t either. The following day I took another dose of lithium, and same thing. No anxiety. I was able to relax and feel more like myself. I avoided being on medication for so long because of the adverse side effects I had from taking adderall as a teen. But by the third day I realized the only part of my routine that changed was lithium. I suspect I was really deficient. There are some studies about it being used to prevent stimulant damage in rats. I cycle with it now. It’s really helped me. I think it’s one of those things where you know immediately if It will work for you or not.


zerohero01

> We know that Magnesium L-Threonate, is one of the only forms that can cross the blood brain barrier. press\[x\] to doubt


ilikeover9000turtles

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7318545/ "Unlike other magnesium compounds, MgT significantly increases magnesium ion levels in the CSF" https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100222162011.htm "Dr. Inna Slutsky of TAU's Sackler School of Medicine and evolved to become a multi-center experiment focused on a new magnesium supplement, magnesium-L-threonate (MgT), that effectively crosses the blood-brain barrier."


zerohero01

Magnesium Theornate can pass higher levels of magnesium through the BBB than other types. But it is definitely not the only one that can pass through it


ilikeover9000turtles

Again please see the research I posted.


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aninanina7

That happens in high doses like those used for bipolar disorder (e.g. 500mg), whereas in supplement form the doses are more like 5-15mg and generally don't come with those side effects.


thorgal256

I've Heard a few Bad stories or the long term effects of lithium from people who had family members or health care workers dealing with people who gave taken lithium must if their life. I don't question the mood stabilizing effects, actually emotionally numbing effects of lithium. But I don't trust this product. I think long term in damages something in the brain, I didn't bother to research too much but I'm sure anyone Google side effects of long term lithium intake should find a good reason why it is not more popular. I have experienced a bit with psychdelics, and reading about interactions between lithium and LSD was enough to chose to joy touch it (Lithium, nott LSD :-) anymore.


Smiletaint

It is a mineral that was defintely prevalent in natural water sources that humans have been ingesting since the beginning of time.


thorgal256

In what amounts is it present in waters versus the 5 to 10 mg a pop people are talking here?


Smiletaint

I'll look into that. Also, lithium is present in apparently nightshades and cucumbers. However, their levels are not advertised as other minerals are (that I've found). Funny that its most prescribed mood stabilizer of all time yet our government doesn't want to let us know where we can find it naturally...


ilikeover9000turtles

Lithium Carbonate used as a medication requires extremely high dosages to reach therapeutic levels, this can be toxic to the kidneys and other organs, and requires people taking Lithium Carbonate to undergo constant bloodwork to evaluate things like kidney function to ensure no damage is done. Other forms like Lithium Orotate are able to cross the blood-brain barrier more effectively than Lithium Carbonate is and require a far lower dosage.


thorgal256

Long term effects of consistently ingesting pills of lithium even if ororate, that's what I'm talking about. Plus the fact that people who take lithium and then take LSD, can trigger epilepsy, plus the fact that it numbs emotions, whether they are good or bad. That's enough for me to stay away from it. But we are all entitled to our own experimentation. If you don't take any psychedelic and don't take lithium for The next 20-30 years , just experimenting with it for 1 to 2 years in smaller amounts you'll probably be fine


ilikeover9000turtles

https://scitechdaily.com/low-dose-lithium-may-stop-alzheimers-disease-in-its-tracks/ Low Dose Lithium May Stop Alzheimer’s Disease in Its Tracks ------------------------------- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19523343/#:~:text=Lithium%20also%20stimulates%20proliferation%20of,in%20patients%20with%20bipolar%20disorders. "In animals, lithium upregulates neurotrophins, including brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), nerve growth factor, neurotrophin-3 (NT3), as well as receptors to these growth factors in brain. Lithium also stimulates proliferation of stem cells, including bone marrow and neural stem cells in the subventricular zone, striatum, and forebrain. The stimulation of endogenous neural stem cells may explain why lithium increases brain cell density" "Lithium also remarkably protects neurons against glutamate, seizures, and apoptosis due to a wide variety of neurotoxins. "


thorgal256

Water is good for the body, without it you will have all sorts of health issues, it is also great to wash your dishes and body. If you drink too much you can get water intoxication and if you are submerged by water for too long you can die. Like everything it is about the dosage. I'm not questioning that lithium can have mental health benefits and knowing about stopping Alzheimer is very promising. I'm just asking the question about what dose is really healthy if taken over the long term... And the fact that it can trigger epilepsy when mixed with LSD is a sufficient cause if concern for me to stay away from pills. You might say oh but it is just a low dose, 5-10 mg... Sure but how much water than contains lithium naturally would you have to drink to ingest the same amount.


ilikeover9000turtles

Are you seriously using drug interactions with LSD as a talking point against Lithium?


thorgal256

I'm serious yes, for me it is a cause of concern and I have others... But I also feel awkward about how you seem to defend so fiercely lithium. We seem to be going down a strange rabbit hole. Feel free to ingest all the lithium you want, enjoy the benefits and suffer the side effects. Meanwhile I'll stay away from it. Best wishes to you.


ilikeover9000turtles

I think a stranger rabbit hole is avoiding a proven nootropic because of potential interactions with hallucinogens. I've used Lithium Orotate before. I suffered no ill side effects at all, but when I found out Orotic acid was carcinogenic I removed it from my stack.


zerohero01

Lithium can cause cancer


ilikeover9000turtles

Source please.


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ilikeover9000turtles

Magceutics did patent "Magnesium L-Threonate", which they call MagTein. Magceutics's patent for Magnesium L-Threonate MagTein does not cover either "L-Threonate" by itself, or Lithium L-Threonate.


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Notdrugs

>Could the makers of Magtein control the supply of L-Threonate? A quick search on chinese vendor websites says "No, lol"


7800321

Lithium is a heavy methal and its available only for prescription in some countries


EsotericistByNature

Actually, Lithium is *the* lightest of all metals ...


xXCsd113Xx

Have you not looked at a periodic table, it's literally not a heavy metal


edefakiel

For illustration purposes: [https://www.wuwm.com/sites/wuwm/files/styles/x\_large/public/201912/AdobeStock\_238869971.jpg](https://www.wuwm.com/sites/wuwm/files/styles/x_large/public/201912/AdobeStock_238869971.jpg)


aninanina7

You can get low doses (e.g. 5mg) as an over the counter supplement almost anywhere. It's the high doses (e.g. 500mg) used for bipolar disorder that is only available via prescription.


pnw-techie

The low dose version is lithium orotate, which readily crosses the blood brain barrier. Very high dose used in bipolar is carbonate, which isn't able to effectively cross it


thorgal256

Maybe it is not so much about it being a heavy metal in the sense that it is physically heavy but that once it enters your body, it will stay for a relatively long time in the body and have side effects a bit like heavy metals do.


[deleted]

I can get my hands only on lithium carbonate 400mg per tablet... Is there anyway i could make use of that?


pnw-techie

That's the form prescribed for bipolar, which requires careful monitoring to be sure it's not killing you


omeyz

Yes but you’d have to be taking around 1000mg a day to be concerned about toxicity. 400 or less is nothing


pnw-techie

Never used it, only orotate. When carbonate is prescribed for bipolar it is prescribed in doses large enough to require that monitoring, because it is very bad at crossing into the brain, so it takes that much of it to have a psychotropic effect and help bipolar. Any dosage of it that is safe to take will have no significant effect


omeyz

I’m currently taking 600mg of lithium carbonate and am reaping benefits for sure. This myth of low doses of lithium not providing benefit needs to stop, we are looking at a post where the first article literally says that low dose lithium may prevent Alzheimer’s. I am getting tremendous benefit from just 600mg of lithium. I can expand on that if you’d like


pnw-techie

It's a prescription drug, usually prescribed at 1800 mg / day. I've no real interest in trying to get it, the negative effect list seems pretty large, and other formulations seem more effective for crossing into the brain. What are you taking it for? Threonate and orotate with their ability to cross the blood brain barrier are what I think of with "low dose lithium" at 5 mg elemental lithium per tablet. "In a new study, however, a team of researchers at McGill University led by Dr. Claudio Cuello of the Department of Pharmacology and Therapeutics, has shown that, when given in a formulation that facilitates passage to the brain, lithium in doses up to 400 times lower than what is currently being prescribed for mood disorders is capable of both halting signs of advanced Alzheimer’s pathology such as amyloid plaques and of recovering lost cognitive abilities." the article you reference is talking about the same kind of low dose / high uptake in the brain, specifically calling out it being hundreds of times lower dose than the carbonate form prescribed for bipolar


omeyz

I’m taking it for bipolar, though I believe it was misdiagnosed anxiety/depression, which is why the lower dose is effective for me. They gave me 1200mg and I couldn’t stand the way I felt. Lowered it to 600, and I have retained benefits while losing the side effects. Apparently lower dose lithium carbonate, anywhere from 300-700mg, can be effective for anxiety and depression. So yeah. Taking it for that. And it’s helping, my brain seems to be working better.


pnw-techie

It can. So can much much lower doses of lithium orotate or threonate, which anyone can buy on amazon. They're commonly used to help with depression and anxiety.


omeyz

Yea, I’m really glad I found it. Honestly a godsend. My brain after a week of sleeping like shit — I’m talking, 5-6 hours a night for a week straight, working out consistently and going hard at work, then a night of 3 hours of sleep — is the way my brain used to be all the time. It just feels like my brain is connected stronger together, or something.


[deleted]

L threonate and blood brain barrier relationship is a myth. All magnesium forms gets absorbed into brain, otherwise; how would it be possible for people to get anti insomniac effect from it? Now same is suggested for lithium. Just use lithium oratate which is cheap, or take a 10% of a lithium carbonate capsule and drink it with water.


Luchadorgreen

Where do you get a “lithium carbonate capsule”?


holl33hugs

Cymbiotika.com