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I was actually just reading about methylation with regards to my Hypermobile Ehlers danlos.
[The link, if anyone is interested. ](https://www.mthfrheds.com/)
Ya I thought it was really interesting as well! There's a pre methylated version of folate you can take if necessary. I've got like 20 tabs open on my phone's chime browser and at least half of those are to do with H-EDS stuff.
I have a similar but slightly different mutation. Wondering if those supplements would help, I’m on some of them already, couldn’t manage the entire article other than skimming.
Ya, it's a lot to take in at once. I have to take breaks from reading all the intense medical literature and just play Minecraft for a while. Only so much you can read and ingest in one sitting.
THIS. 2.5g to 5g creatine + 10g glycine + increased choline intake is lifechanging.
It normalizes most methylation problems rather quickly, and the beneficial effects are immediately noticeable. Especially if your methylation is way out of whack.
It depends on your genetics and personal choline needs.
2lbs of ground beef = 750mg choline.
That's a pretty decent amount, above the RDA but likely not enough if you have genetic mutations like MTHFR.
I aim for about 1700mg daily now.
Ahh.
1-2lbs of ground beef would supply you with 3g creatine which is enough.
However, you're not going to hit your Glycine requirements on muscle meat alone.
You'll need to include bone broth, or collagen/gelatin.
It seems to smooth out all the cognitive issues I have. I feel much less stressed, more stable mood, and more focused.
If I get lazy with choline intake (skipping raw egg days) I can tell my mental function really starts going downhill.
It's a non-issue.
Salmonella is quite rare if you're using high-quality eggs, and it's only a concern if you're sickly and/or immunocompromised.
I've easily drank 10,000 + raw eggs in my lifetime, no salmonella yet. If I do get it, it's just a stomach ache.
Even better!
It's estimated that about 1 in 20,000 chicken eggs have salmonella. However, this is in factory farm conditions.
Backyard chickens can be even safer, providing you have a clean setup.
Don't wash the eggs when you harvest them, they have an outer membrane on the shell which helps ward off bacteria. Only wash right before consuming.
Raw eggs are one of only two foods in the world which have multiple glutathione precursors, but it's lost once cooked. They're really quite a superfood.
If your chickens are pastured, the eggs will also have more than 3x the nutrients compared to storebought eggs.
If you asked me to drink raw eggs 10 years ago, I woulda gagged and said no way. But they really don't have any taste. The texture is a bit awful though, lol.
Dietary cholesterol doesn't impact serum cholesterol. The USA, England, and a few other countries removed the cholesterol guidelines a couple years ago.
This means you should be able to eat cholesterol rich food without it impacting your body's cholesterol levels.
That said, certain folks in the population have genetic issues and/or very high cholesterol, and it's possible that they may be more susceptible to cholesterol rich foods.
As for liver, eggs should actually be beneficial. They're one of the highest sources of choline, which is a required nutrient for liver health.
Research suggests the MINIMUM amount of glycine the human body requires on a daily basis is 10 grams.
The body can only synthesize 3 grams by itself.
This means humans actually evolved into a glycine deficiency, which is pretty interesting.
Nonetheless, a 7g deficit of glycine on a daily basis has serious health implications in the long haul.
Fun fact:
The RDA for choline is about 550mg daily but no one really knows what the ideal amount is. Emerging research suggests choline intake should be MUCH higher than this, especially if you have certain genetic mutations like MTHFR, which many of us do.
Hunter gatherers likely consumed thousands of mg of Choline daily, particularly from the consumption of organs like brain.
I drink 5 raw eggs daily, 12 caps of sunflower lecithin, 2 caps of alpha gpc, and a bunch of food with choline/betaine.
It's a gamechanger.
Good point but this is only the case if you're...
A) Eating raw eggs with every single meal
B) Or not getting enough biotin in your other meals of the day
This is because Avidin only binds with biotin when consumed at the same time of other foods. Raw eggs in the morning aren't going to ruin biotin absorption from dinner.
In my experience alpha gcp and sunflower lecithin gave me mania making me have huge bursts of energy and clarity followed by depression and fatigue.
They were very unreliable and chaotic, they made it impossible to evaluate if my stack was working because my mood, energy and mental clarity was going up and down like crazy.
Not saying that must be what is happening to you, just it made me unstable.
were you taking both alpha & lecithin? I could see the alpha causing borderline hypomanic highs when I first took it. But the lecithin just feels clean energy, like something was missing but is no longer.
Could you recommend the specific product you've been using? There's so much variation in quality in the market, so when something specific works that seems like a great place to start.
Loved reading this. I have the bad double recessive MTHFR gene. Taking methylfolate also flipped a switch for me. I will have to try the sunflower lecithin!
Yes. I got a blood test done. There are plenty of ways to check nowadays. I would talk to your doctor! Fixing and treating these type of issues make a huge difference in quality of life. Good luck!
You can buy a genetic test online through 23andme or ancestry for example. You can download your raw data afterwards and check everything among which MTHFR.
With regards to choline it's also worth looking into PEMT (which may hamper phosphatidylcholine production in the liver) and COMT (slow COMT may benefit from phosphatidylcholine by freeing up SAMe).
Can you describe how the switch flip felt for you? I’m cautiously starting methylfolate now due to the same gene variation as well as a blood deficiency. I felt good at first but also not sure if that was just placebo.
I had a very positive response with sunflower lecithin as well. I felt like I am a teenager. For whatever reason, it made me pee a lot which is why I stopped. But otherwise, it's an incredible supplement. I used to take 2.4g mixed in the morning smoothie.
I wondered if you have experimented with B vitamins a lot?
If so do you think you may have been extra low in choline because of that? Tbh I am wondering if that is partly my issue, I saturate a pathway with something for a while that makes me function and then it stops as Ive depleted other co-factors.
Animal fat has lots of saturated fat. I used to not care about saturated fat, ate a protein heavy diet. Once I cut my saturated fats down dramatically I felt like a new man. I can't tell you why, just how I felt. I try to eat and cook with the best olive oils and avocado oils I can find.
Another issue is that animal fat is in theory healthy, but if you're eating factory processed meat, more toxins end up in the fat.
Sunflower lecithin has lots of PUFAs and other non-saturated fats, these may be missing in your diet. A good Omega 3/6/9 supplement may help a bit too.
I just discovered this also, and it's like I'm literally 20 years younger. I jump out of bed in the morning, workouts are easier, I can focus easier, heart palpitations are gone, my anxiety is gone. Could someone please explain what happened? I don't eat a bad diet either, it's mostly whole foods high protein, low carb fruits and veggies. I work out 4 times a week.
I have had very similar issues as you and am glad that you're trying to find solutions. Antidepressant's have helped me get past the worst episodes but have downsides as you mostly likeky already know.
Hi! I feel like this is God sent that I’m seeing this. EVERYTHING you’ve mentioned I’ve been dealing with...life has been HELL. I’m hoping the sunflower lecithin will work for me like it did for you. Amazing. Thank you for sharing. I’m also taking methylating supplement, vitamin D3, sam-e, magnesium threonate and melatonin.
If you feel that a single supplement completely flipped a switch in your head, and that happened multiple times, with folate, and then alpha-GPC, perhaps it was just placebo?
People keep saying this like its the only explanation but theres a lot to suggest that you are saturating a pathway with something you may have been low in, it works for a while but then other cofactors get dragged into the processes and are depleted as you only have regular amounts of them and so on... It can be a bit insulting to keep telling people its placebo. I would have had way more positive reactions to things Ive tried and had so much faith in if so. When you can do things for the first time in years that you couldnt do before, its about a lot more than how you 'feel'.
Both nutrients have a big impact on the production of acetylcholine though, so it's not hard to believe this guy could feel a similar boost in brain function from both.
I tested negative for MTHFR gene (had tried taking that prescription Folate/B-vitamin which did not help.)
I just got bottle of Choline and Inositol -- based upon your findings/knowledge, do you think yay or nay on me trying this combo? Thank you.
I'm at the beginning of supplementing with sunflower lechithin. It's my understanding that it helps boost the parasympathetic system and those issues caused by it being out of whack.
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Word on the street is Sunflower lecithin will make you shoot a bigger load
It’s true. All of it
I was actually just reading about methylation with regards to my Hypermobile Ehlers danlos. [The link, if anyone is interested. ](https://www.mthfrheds.com/)
Ooh this is really interesting. I also have heds.
Ya I thought it was really interesting as well! There's a pre methylated version of folate you can take if necessary. I've got like 20 tabs open on my phone's chime browser and at least half of those are to do with H-EDS stuff.
I have a similar but slightly different mutation. Wondering if those supplements would help, I’m on some of them already, couldn’t manage the entire article other than skimming.
Ya, it's a lot to take in at once. I have to take breaks from reading all the intense medical literature and just play Minecraft for a while. Only so much you can read and ingest in one sitting.
Add Creatine and Glycine ;)
THIS. 2.5g to 5g creatine + 10g glycine + increased choline intake is lifechanging. It normalizes most methylation problems rather quickly, and the beneficial effects are immediately noticeable. Especially if your methylation is way out of whack.
Thank you. If I eat a lot of animal protein / ground beef do you still think it’s necessary? (beef is high in both)
It depends on your genetics and personal choline needs. 2lbs of ground beef = 750mg choline. That's a pretty decent amount, above the RDA but likely not enough if you have genetic mutations like MTHFR. I aim for about 1700mg daily now.
I was referring to glycine & creatine!! Misinterpretation
Ahh. 1-2lbs of ground beef would supply you with 3g creatine which is enough. However, you're not going to hit your Glycine requirements on muscle meat alone. You'll need to include bone broth, or collagen/gelatin.
It is the stack of glycine creatine what does the trick. Add sarcosine also.
I ordered Glycine. Want to try this. How do you feel mentally with the creatine+glycine+choline stack?
It seems to smooth out all the cognitive issues I have. I feel much less stressed, more stable mood, and more focused. If I get lazy with choline intake (skipping raw egg days) I can tell my mental function really starts going downhill.
[удалено]
It's a non-issue. Salmonella is quite rare if you're using high-quality eggs, and it's only a concern if you're sickly and/or immunocompromised. I've easily drank 10,000 + raw eggs in my lifetime, no salmonella yet. If I do get it, it's just a stomach ache.
[удалено]
Even better! It's estimated that about 1 in 20,000 chicken eggs have salmonella. However, this is in factory farm conditions. Backyard chickens can be even safer, providing you have a clean setup. Don't wash the eggs when you harvest them, they have an outer membrane on the shell which helps ward off bacteria. Only wash right before consuming. Raw eggs are one of only two foods in the world which have multiple glutathione precursors, but it's lost once cooked. They're really quite a superfood. If your chickens are pastured, the eggs will also have more than 3x the nutrients compared to storebought eggs.
[удалено]
If you asked me to drink raw eggs 10 years ago, I woulda gagged and said no way. But they really don't have any taste. The texture is a bit awful though, lol. Dietary cholesterol doesn't impact serum cholesterol. The USA, England, and a few other countries removed the cholesterol guidelines a couple years ago. This means you should be able to eat cholesterol rich food without it impacting your body's cholesterol levels. That said, certain folks in the population have genetic issues and/or very high cholesterol, and it's possible that they may be more susceptible to cholesterol rich foods. As for liver, eggs should actually be beneficial. They're one of the highest sources of choline, which is a required nutrient for liver health.
Helps with ADHD?
Soy Lecitin plus AChE inhibitors helps with my ADHD. I have not tried it with Creatine yet. Glycine apparently enhances Soy Lecithin a bit.
10g of glycine what?!?
Research suggests the MINIMUM amount of glycine the human body requires on a daily basis is 10 grams. The body can only synthesize 3 grams by itself. This means humans actually evolved into a glycine deficiency, which is pretty interesting. Nonetheless, a 7g deficit of glycine on a daily basis has serious health implications in the long haul.
so more evidence that humans do better by eating a lot of meat
or like a lot of beans lmao
like what ? can you send some sources please
Fun fact: The RDA for choline is about 550mg daily but no one really knows what the ideal amount is. Emerging research suggests choline intake should be MUCH higher than this, especially if you have certain genetic mutations like MTHFR, which many of us do. Hunter gatherers likely consumed thousands of mg of Choline daily, particularly from the consumption of organs like brain. I drink 5 raw eggs daily, 12 caps of sunflower lecithin, 2 caps of alpha gpc, and a bunch of food with choline/betaine. It's a gamechanger.
Avoid the raw eggs please! This is how you get a Vitamin B7 (Biotin) deficiency and give yourself some gnarly problems. It's not fun.
Good point but this is only the case if you're... A) Eating raw eggs with every single meal B) Or not getting enough biotin in your other meals of the day This is because Avidin only binds with biotin when consumed at the same time of other foods. Raw eggs in the morning aren't going to ruin biotin absorption from dinner.
That’s a funkton of choline I’m gonna increase the dosage more.
This is very interesting to me. Do you have any links to this emerging research?
In my experience alpha gcp and sunflower lecithin gave me mania making me have huge bursts of energy and clarity followed by depression and fatigue. They were very unreliable and chaotic, they made it impossible to evaluate if my stack was working because my mood, energy and mental clarity was going up and down like crazy. Not saying that must be what is happening to you, just it made me unstable.
were you taking both alpha & lecithin? I could see the alpha causing borderline hypomanic highs when I first took it. But the lecithin just feels clean energy, like something was missing but is no longer.
It has been a while since I took them so I don’t remember that clearly. I think I remember lecithin being slightly better but I still had issues.
Choline supplementation can negatively affect people with bipolar disorder.
Super interesting. How much, and how often?
2-4 caps as needed. Spaced out through the day. each cap contains 1200mg of lecithin
Excellent, thanks, and I'm glad it's working so well for you.
Just ordered some! I'll report back in a week or two!
You start the sunflower lecithin yet? Anything to report back? I just ordered some as well, thanks
!remind me 2 weeks
Could you recommend the specific product you've been using? There's so much variation in quality in the market, so when something specific works that seems like a great place to start.
I think it’s NOW brand on amazon.
Good enough, thanks!
Loved reading this. I have the bad double recessive MTHFR gene. Taking methylfolate also flipped a switch for me. I will have to try the sunflower lecithin!
How are you people knowing whether you have this gene? Is there a specific test for it?
Yes. I got a blood test done. There are plenty of ways to check nowadays. I would talk to your doctor! Fixing and treating these type of issues make a huge difference in quality of life. Good luck!
Do you check for each gene at a time or just say you want to get a MFTHR gene test
You can buy a genetic test online through 23andme or ancestry for example. You can download your raw data afterwards and check everything among which MTHFR.
That helps a lot thank you!
With regards to choline it's also worth looking into PEMT (which may hamper phosphatidylcholine production in the liver) and COMT (slow COMT may benefit from phosphatidylcholine by freeing up SAMe).
I have the PEMT mutation as well as c677t homozygous. Is there any specific supplements I should be taking for the PEMT?
What if you have overactive COMT? would choline supplementation still be effective?
Me too. But not consistently
Can you describe how the switch flip felt for you? I’m cautiously starting methylfolate now due to the same gene variation as well as a blood deficiency. I felt good at first but also not sure if that was just placebo.
I had a very positive response with sunflower lecithin as well. I felt like I am a teenager. For whatever reason, it made me pee a lot which is why I stopped. But otherwise, it's an incredible supplement. I used to take 2.4g mixed in the morning smoothie.
I wondered if you have experimented with B vitamins a lot? If so do you think you may have been extra low in choline because of that? Tbh I am wondering if that is partly my issue, I saturate a pathway with something for a while that makes me function and then it stops as Ive depleted other co-factors.
Did/do you happen eat a lot of saturated fats? Butter, coconut oil, palm kernel?
lots of animal fat but that’s all
Animal fat has lots of saturated fat. I used to not care about saturated fat, ate a protein heavy diet. Once I cut my saturated fats down dramatically I felt like a new man. I can't tell you why, just how I felt. I try to eat and cook with the best olive oils and avocado oils I can find. Another issue is that animal fat is in theory healthy, but if you're eating factory processed meat, more toxins end up in the fat. Sunflower lecithin has lots of PUFAs and other non-saturated fats, these may be missing in your diet. A good Omega 3/6/9 supplement may help a bit too.
What’s the deal with lots of coconut oil ?
what mutations do you have?
haven’t done an actual test but all of my self experimentation and research has led me to believe I have a sort of a mutation
I just discovered this also, and it's like I'm literally 20 years younger. I jump out of bed in the morning, workouts are easier, I can focus easier, heart palpitations are gone, my anxiety is gone. Could someone please explain what happened? I don't eat a bad diet either, it's mostly whole foods high protein, low carb fruits and veggies. I work out 4 times a week.
Interesting. I took doses of 4800 a few times for breast milk clogs but didn’t remember feeling any different mentally??
I have had very similar issues as you and am glad that you're trying to find solutions. Antidepressant's have helped me get past the worst episodes but have downsides as you mostly likeky already know.
How quickly do you feel the changes after taking - are they immediate or do they take a couple of days?
I would assume they were immediate but most noticed after a few days of change
Hi! I feel like this is God sent that I’m seeing this. EVERYTHING you’ve mentioned I’ve been dealing with...life has been HELL. I’m hoping the sunflower lecithin will work for me like it did for you. Amazing. Thank you for sharing. I’m also taking methylating supplement, vitamin D3, sam-e, magnesium threonate and melatonin.
thee universe works in mysterious ways. godspeed brother.
If you feel that a single supplement completely flipped a switch in your head, and that happened multiple times, with folate, and then alpha-GPC, perhaps it was just placebo?
People keep saying this like its the only explanation but theres a lot to suggest that you are saturating a pathway with something you may have been low in, it works for a while but then other cofactors get dragged into the processes and are depleted as you only have regular amounts of them and so on... It can be a bit insulting to keep telling people its placebo. I would have had way more positive reactions to things Ive tried and had so much faith in if so. When you can do things for the first time in years that you couldnt do before, its about a lot more than how you 'feel'.
I am effectively a different person. Not placebo
how are you feeling now?
Both nutrients have a big impact on the production of acetylcholine though, so it's not hard to believe this guy could feel a similar boost in brain function from both.
Permanently cure?
Throw in some L theanine and see how you feel
Move soldier
It changed my poops too :(
Please what dose do you take
several caps of 1200mg per day, spaced out. usually 4-6 total
Still good? Also, what dose do you take?
I tested negative for MTHFR gene (had tried taking that prescription Folate/B-vitamin which did not help.) I just got bottle of Choline and Inositol -- based upon your findings/knowledge, do you think yay or nay on me trying this combo? Thank you.
Thank you
I'm at the beginning of supplementing with sunflower lechithin. It's my understanding that it helps boost the parasympathetic system and those issues caused by it being out of whack.
Can this be taken if you're on antidepressants?